AOQ Angel Review 1-22: "To Shanshu In L.A."
Arbitrar Of Quality
episodes in these review threads
ANGEL
Season One, Episode 22: "To Shanshu In L.A.")
(or "Scythes matter")
Writer: David Greenwalt
Director: David Greenwalt
Well, you of Usenet have said that the year of ATS ended stronger than
the mediocre season would lead one to believe. I agree with that. I
do think the series might be going somewhere now, but it's fooled me
into thinking that before (after the first few, and then again by
following "Somnambulist" with a string of blah). It says something
that all of the Excellents that the series has managed in my ratings
were Special Crossover Episodes. Even with them, Season One scores
lower than any season of BTVS in terms of mean score, and ties with
BTVS S1 with a fairly dismal percentage of really worthwhile episodes:
50%. But I'm quietly happy to at least be ending with a pair of
episodes like BD and TSILA that highlight the show's potential.
So was Joss too busy with "Restless" to write another finale, or is
_Angel_ David's baby? And I'd gotten the impression that _Buffy_
was the show that kinda got left behind while Joss worked on ATS and
FF.
We pick up on our Big Dumb Prophecy as introduced last week. I'm not
much for prophecies, but apparently even the Buffyverse writers don't
love them either, given that they work in mysterious ways and are so
easily misinterpreted anyway. Until then, we have to deal with our
characters treating it as a big deal; even Cordelia's commentary on
the action doesn't have much acid once Shanshu comes up. Whatever.
While I enjoyed TSILA on an action-adventure level, the big theme of
Angel's alleged inability to change and grow seems to be based more
on the characters saying so than springing from anything we've seen.
Compare 1996 Angel from "Becoming" with the present-day version and
try to tell me he's unchanged. I do like the way Boreanaz plays the
attempt to contain his happiness at the end.
As usual, the opening scenes at least involve some humor before we get
too serious; Angel continuing to calmly read his book while everyone
else falls to pieces is worthwhile. The teaser also includes one of my
favorite bits of back-n-forth dialogue in awhile - it just really
clicked for me for some reason:
Cordelia: Well, hurry up and figure out what it says about Angel,
because - I wanna know what it says about me. If there is torrid
romance in my future? Massive wealth? If I have to, I'll settle for
enviable fame.
Wesley [annoyed]: This is an ancient sacred text, not a magic eight
ball.
Cordelia: Nobody gets my humor.
Angel [deadpan and expressionless]: I thought it was funny.
Cordelia: Hmm.
Meanwhile an ominous robed guy stalks ominously. We use David Nabbit
as an anticlimax, then move on to the summoning of our proximate
villain. Even though he's just the one-episode enemy, it hurts that
he looks so utterly ridiculous. Is that plastic Halloween mask
supposed to be his face, or just a stupid mask? Anyway, Voca is
aligned with our friends at W&H, who have a more minor part throughout
the episode than I'd expected. We mainly stay with the AI team as
they're hunted. Silly looks aside, our hunter is a smooth operator.
I was worried that he'd be able to get close enough to the weapons
locker to see Angel enter a combination, without being observed, which
would've been weak. Instead he just stays way back, and then rips
the cabinet open. Works for me. Blowing up the Angel Investigations
building is unexpected, one of the more arresting moments of the
episode. Also let's mention his attack on the Oracles, since I'd
been thinking of the PTB and their agents as apathetic but fairly
eternal and such. This end-of-an-era feel changes the character of a
series a little bit. Enjoyed the oracle talking more normally once
dead (and not liking it, so far).
I'm not really affected too much one way or the other by Cordelia
being driven insane by getting all her headache-visions at once. For
me the episode was less about her and more about what she means to
Angel. How much the experience has changed her doesn't seem too
overplayed at the end, which I'm glad of; there's not really a need
for a dramatic life-changing character overhaul. Let the new her and
the old her coexist.
Side note: Is it just me, or is Wesley watching Cordelia intently in
the opening parts, and getting slighted when she turns to Angel before
him?
Seeing the recurring idea of family featured so prominently here takes
even more away from my already low opinion of "Expecting," which
kinda jumped the gun on that. Showing it build over the year and then
making it explicit at the end is the proper way to do such things.
Isolated from his crew, Angel has a couple surprisingly brief
encounters with Gunn and Kate. One of them is becoming a more regular
ally, the other is, contrary to how I'd expected the season to play
out, becoming something of an enemy, depending on her ultimate coping
methods. The confrontation with Kate in which he finally loses his
temper with her irrationality is great; "Now, I'm sorry about your
father. But I didn't kill your father. And I'm sick and tired of you
blaming me for everything you can't handle! You want to be enemies?
Try me." I always like seeing Angel in a cold rage, as we also get
at the end when he starts whaling on anyone in his path with a scythe.
And the climax itself is a bit small-scale, but pretty cool. I
didn't like seeing the chanting ritual played straight until before
the commercial break, although the show does eventually get around to
poking a little fun at them with Holland's classic "you never want
to be on time for a ritual. The chanting, the blood rites, they go on
forever." But then, yeah, good things. The cartoony but still cool
vamp-dusting energywhirls. Angel in touch with his inner killer,
laying into everyone. Lindsey having another big moment in which he
decides he wants to be a part of this and picking up the ritual where
Voca left off. And once violence can conceivably be justified,
Angel's quick to take off his whole fucking arm,
'Revelations"-style. "Don't believe everything you're
foretold." Rawk. It's a smaller version of the same thrill I got
when he threw Lindsey's client through a window back at the beginning
of the year.
I think his last scene is the first time we see Angel consider feeding
in front of any of his friends.
So our heroes make it through intact, but the stories don't end with
the season; "To Shanshu" is as much setup as it is resolution.
It's not really a victory either, since the villains succeed in using
their scroll to summon up an anti-Angel weapon, which was the whole
point of the exercise... and then Darla's in the box at the end!
First of all, wha? Second of all, this could be quite interesting.
Third of all, wha?
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s)
- "That shoe-shine thing?" "Shanshu."
- The schizophrenic's response to Angel saving her
- Cordelia's facial expressions during the donut scene. Also,
following that conversation with "I don't want anything," in
regards to food
- "They haven't even gotten to the Latin yet!"
Both shows could use some improvement, and I think the potential's
there. Now, I believe five days has become the standard between-season
wait time? We'll alternate episodes again, starting with _Buffy_,
for at least another year, although I might switch formats after the
network breakup. Thanks for reading, and see you next "year."
So...
One-sentence summary: A solid end to a weak era, and hopefully the
beginning of a better one.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season One ratings:
1) "City Of" - Good
2) "Lonely Hearts" - Weak
3) "Into The Dark" - Good
4) "I Fall To Pieces" - Good
5) "Rm W/ A Vu" - Decent
6) "Sense And Sensitivity" - Weak
7) "The Bachelor Party" - Decent
8) "I Will Remember You" - Excellent
9) "Hero" - Good
10) "Parting Gifts" - Decent
11) "Somnambulist" - Good
12) "Expecting" - Bad
13) "She" - Good
14) "I've Got You Under My Skin" - Decent
15) "The Prodigal" - Decent
16) "The Ring" - Decent
17) "Eternity" - Decent
18) "Five By Five" - Excellent
19) "Sanctuary" - Excellent
20) "War Zone" - Decent
21) "Blind Date" - Good
22) "To Shanshu In L.A." - Good]
BY THE NUMBERS
_Angel_ Season One
Bad - 1
Weak - 2
Decent - 8
Good - 8
Excellent - 3
Average rating: 3.45 ["Decent plus"] (Decent=3)
Quality Percentage [% of episodes ranking Good or higher]: 50%
_Angel_ so far
See S1
Ratings by season:
S1: Mean = 3.45, 50% quality
Series so far: See S1
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 22: "To Shanshu In L.A.")
> (or "Scythes matter")
> Writer: David Greenwalt
> Director: David Greenwalt
> So was Joss too busy with "Restless" to write another finale, or is
> _Angel_ David's baby? And I'd gotten the impression that _Buffy_
> was the show that kinda got left behind while Joss worked on ATS and
> FF.
I think Angel was always more Greenwalt's than Whedon's. Many fans
blame everything that they didn't like about later seasons of Buffy on
Whedon being too busy with other things, but I've never thought that was
the case.
>
> We pick up on our Big Dumb Prophecy as introduced last week. I'm not
> much for prophecies, but apparently even the Buffyverse writers don't
> love them either, given that they work in mysterious ways and are so
> easily misinterpreted anyway. Until then, we have to deal with our
> characters treating it as a big deal; even Cordelia's commentary on
> the action doesn't have much acid once Shanshu comes up. Whatever.
> While I enjoyed TSILA on an action-adventure level, the big theme of
> Angel's alleged inability to change and grow seems to be based more
> on the characters saying so than springing from anything we've seen.
> Compare 1996 Angel from "Becoming" with the present-day version and
> try to tell me he's unchanged. I do like the way Boreanaz plays the
> attempt to contain his happiness at the end.
My own interpretation of the prophecy is that it has already come to
pass. Angel became human back in IWRY. And then the big moron threw it
away.
> Blowing up the Angel Investigations
> building is unexpected, one of the more arresting moments of the
> episode.
There was a production reason for that explosion: they didn't like the
Angel Investigations set. It was hard for them to work in, difficult to
place and move cameras and lights and so on. They wanted to get rid of
it.
> Also let's mention his attack on the Oracles, since I'd
> been thinking of the PTB and their agents as apathetic but fairly
> eternal and such. This end-of-an-era feel changes the character of a
> series a little bit. Enjoyed the oracle talking more normally once
> dead (and not liking it, so far).
Big plus for this episode: No more Glitter Twins!
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
BTR1701
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> So was Joss too busy with "Restless" to write another finale, or is
> _Angel_ David's baby? And I'd gotten the impression that _Buffy_
> was the show that kinda got left behind while Joss worked on ATS and
> FF.
That dynamic is more evident in later seasons of both "Buffy" and ANGEL.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s)
> - "That shoe-shine thing?" "Shanshu."
Reminiscent of Buffy's "Something about kissing toast. He lived for
kissing toast.
GILES
You mean Kakistos?
BUFFY: "Khaki Trousers" Giles: "Kakistos".
kenm47
Third of all, wha?"
Yes, three excellent questions.
Some thoughts:
Great season ender for those, like me that loved the Darla character
and the promise of more backstory. Told ya things got better.
Angel missed the big opportunity of saying: "Yes, Lindeey, it is true.
I am your father."
There was a film called "To Live and Die in LA." So, get it now?
Wesley has grown quite a bit. There appears to be the danger of using
Nabbit as the new comic relief - time will tell.
Not quite "Excellent" for me, but certainly a Good+
Ken (Brooklyn)
peachy ashie passion
I loved the Glitter Twins. I mourn the Glitter Twins.
Mel
Except that all the things the prophecy said he had to do first haven't
happened at that point. They haven't happened by "Shanshu" yet either.
Mel
Don Sample
wrote:
1) To quote Wesley: "Apocalyptic prophecies aren't exactly a
science."
2) And what was it that was supposed to happen first?
He has to survive the coming darkness,
-- He's survived lots of darkness. There was the century of
the darkness of his soul between being cursed, and
meeting Buffy.
the apocalyptic battles,
-- Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
a few plagues,
-- Ditto
and some - uh, several, - not that many - fiends that will be
unleashed.
-- Done that too.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> Third of all, wha?
word to the wise on both series
just because you die
doesnt mean youre out of the series
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Opus the Penguin
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Blowing up the Angel Investigations
>> building is unexpected, one of the more arresting moments of the
>> episode.
>
> There was a production reason for that explosion: they didn't like
> the Angel Investigations set. It was hard for them to work in,
> difficult to place and move cameras and lights and so on. They
> wanted to get rid of it.
Juvpu vf n funzr. Ubjrire uneq vg jnf gb trg vg evtug, gurl qvq trg vg
evtug. V ybirq gung cynpr. (V qvq gur EBG-13 guvat orpnhfr NBD qbrfa'g
xabj gung gur bssvpr jba'g or erohvyg. Vg'f zvyqyl fcbvyrel.)
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Daniel Damouth
news:1148768649.3...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> .. and then Darla's in the box at the end!
> First of all, wha? Second of all, this could be quite interesting.
> Third of all, wha?
Two excellent questions.
-Dan Damouth
Mel
Don Sample wrote:
Yes, a time in which he did nothing to actually earn redemption.
Jryy, gurer jnf fnivat gur chccl, naq gur jubyr fhoznevar nqiragher. Ohg
ur nyfb yrg n ohapu bs crbcyr ng gur Ulcrevba qvr ubeevoyr qrnguf jura
ur irel rnfvyl pbhyq unir fnirq gurz.
> the apocalyptic battles,
> -- Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
He didn't help Buffy fight the Master. He was, in fact, not going to do
anything until Xander made him get involved. He tried to suck the world
into hell (as Angelus). He helped fight the Hellmouth monster in "The
Zeppo" but that was only a background apocalypse. He was a very tiny
part of the battle against the Mayor.
How is that enough?
> a few plagues,
> -- Ditto
We have seen plagues in the Buffyverse? I don't recall any. Not even
raining toads, although Xander did mention them once.
> and some - uh, several, - not that many - fiends that will be
> unleashed.
> -- Done that too.
>
Run of the mill monsters. Nothing apocalyptic. Nothing to earn any sort
of reward. Remember The Oracles say as much in IWRY. They acknowledge
that he is, in fact, free but not because he earned it.
Mel
ajs...@aol.com
is that he didn't die at the end of his period of humanity. Wesley
said that it meant to both live and die, he didn't actually accomplish
the latter.
Arbitrar Of Quality
> There was a film called "To Live and Die in LA." So, get it now?
Ah. Thas cool.
-AOQ
Apteryx
news:1148768649.3...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 22: "To Shanshu In L.A.")
> (or "Scythes matter")
> Writer: David Greenwalt
> Director: David Greenwalt
>
> _Angel_ David's baby? And I'd gotten the impression that _Buffy_
> was the show that kinda got left behind while Joss worked on ATS and
> FF.
I think that impression is right. But Joss still turned up for BtVS season
finales, to try and repair the damage.
>
>
> Meanwhile an ominous robed guy stalks ominously. We use David Nabbit
> as an anticlimax, then move on to the summoning of our proximate
> villain. Even though he's just the one-episode enemy, it hurts that
> he looks so utterly ridiculous. Is that plastic Halloween mask
> supposed to be his face, or just a stupid mask?
Well we know at the end that it is just a stupid mask, and of course it fits
in well enough with his robes to allow him to walk inconspicously around LA.
>
> Isolated from his crew, Angel has a couple surprisingly brief
> encounters with Gunn and Kate. One of them is becoming a more regular
> ally, the other is, contrary to how I'd expected the season to play
> out, becoming something of an enemy, depending on her ultimate coping
> methods. The confrontation with Kate in which he finally loses his
> temper with her irrationality is great
I'm ahead of him there in losing my temper over her irrationality. OK, she's
upset about her Dad, but her bitterness against Angel here just seems to be
writing her as an enemy without regard to plausibility.
> So our heroes make it through intact, but the stories don't end with
> the season; "To Shanshu" is as much setup as it is resolution.
> It's not really a victory either, since the villains succeed in using
> their scroll to summon up an anti-Angel weapon, which was the whole
> point of the exercise... and then Darla's in the box at the end!
> First of all, wha? Second of all, this could be quite interesting.
> Third of all, wha?
A great ending, with a promise of great things to come. There is a nagging
worry about it - if a character dead and turned to dust and only in the
flashbacks for over 3 years can be restored, then why worry about our
heroes? Is there such a thing as mortal danger any more?
>
> One-sentence summary: A solid end to a weak era, and hopefully the
> beginning of a better one.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Its close to Good for me, but by my preset conversion of my ratings to
yours, I'd only call it Decent. For me, its the 54th best AtS episode, 10th
best in season 1
--
Apteryx
Elisi
>pass. Angel became human back in IWRY. And then the big moron threw it
>away.
It is explicitly stated in IWRY that it had nothing to do with the PTB:
Angel: "What's happened to me?"
Woman steps to one side of Angel: "It's true then, brother."
Man on Angel's other side: "He is no longer a warrior."
Angel: "It was the demon's blood. It wasn't the Powers-That-Be that
did this?"
Man: "The Powers-That-Be? Did you save humanity? Avert the
Apocalypse?"
Woman: "You faced a Mohra demon. Life goes on."
[...]
Man: "That which we serve is no longer that which you serve. You are
released from your fealty."
So far he has neither saved humanity _or_ averted the Apocalypse! He's
helped out, but not in a major way and not as an agent of the Powers!
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
naq bs pbhefr nf erfg bs hf nyernql xabj
vgf fcvxr gung funafuhf npebff gur fgntr
Elisi
V qba'g xabj vs lbh urneq, ohg Qnivq Shel jnagrq gb raq NgF jvgu Natry
rneavat gur funafuh, gura tvivat vg gb Fcvxr. Fcvxr jbhyq or shevbhf
(orpnhfr ur jnagrq gb rnea vg uvzfrys, gunaxlbhirelzhpu!), ohg jbhyq
gura tb bss gb Ebzr gb or jvgu Ohssl. Wbff qvqa'g tb jvgu vg orpnhfr ur
jnagrq gb xrrc Fcvxr n inzcver vs ur rire tbg ebhaq gb znxvat n gi
zbivr.
Gung fnvq, V ybir 'Abg Snqr Njnl' (naq rfcrpvnyyl gur raqvat), naq
ernyyl jbhyqa'g jnag gb punatr vg!
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
GILES: (still looking at TV) Oh, I'm beginning to understand this now. It's
all about the journey, isn't it?
(Xander rolls his eyes.)
Elisi
Vs abguvat jr qb znggre, gura nyy gung znggref vf jung jr qb.
*sigh* I miss my show.
Don Sample
wrote:
> Don Sample wrote:
>
> > In article <KeqdnZ6Lscb...@uci.net>, Mel <melb...@uci.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Don Sample wrote:
> >>
> >>>My own interpretation of the prophecy is that it has already come to
> >>>pass. Angel became human back in IWRY. And then the big moron threw it
> >>>away.
> >>
> >>Except that all the things the prophecy said he had to do first haven't
> >>happened at that point. They haven't happened by "Shanshu" yet either.
> >
> >
> > 1) To quote Wesley: "Apocalyptic prophecies aren't exactly a
> > science."
> >
> > 2) And what was it that was supposed to happen first?
> > He has to survive the coming darkness,
> > -- He's survived lots of darkness. There was the century of
> > the darkness of his soul between being cursed, and
> > meeting Buffy.
>
>
> Yes, a time in which he did nothing to actually earn redemption.
Since when did "earning" come into it? Lots of good and bad things
happen to people that they never earn.
> > the apocalyptic battles,
> > -- Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
>
> He didn't help Buffy fight the Master. He was, in fact, not going to do
> anything until Xander made him get involved.
Nothing was said about how big his role would be, or even if he'd be
involved at all. Just that he'd survive, and he has.
> He tried to suck the world
> into hell (as Angelus).
Nothing was also said about which side he'd be on.
> He helped fight the Hellmouth monster in "The
> Zeppo" but that was only a background apocalypse.
For the viewers maybe, because we were watching Xander play with the
zombies, but it was a world threatening apocalypse none the less.
> He was a very tiny
> part of the battle against the Mayor.
>
> How is that enough?
Again, you seem to think this is something he has to score enough points
to earn. Nothing was said about that. (Naq gur fpbevat cbvagf nfcrpg
bs vg vf bar gung Natry uvzfrys jvyy erwrpg, cerggl dhvpxyl.)
> > a few plagues,
> > -- Ditto
>
> We have seen plagues in the Buffyverse? I don't recall any. Not even
> raining toads, although Xander did mention them once.
Angel is 247 years old. He survived in a world without polio or
smallpox vaccines. He survived the 1918 Spanish Flu epidemic, which
killed 50 - 100 million people, world wide. He has survived more plague
than most people who live in the 21st century can imagine.
> > and some - uh, several, - not that many - fiends that will be
> > unleashed.
> > -- Done that too.
> >
>
> Run of the mill monsters. Nothing apocalyptic.
Apocalyptic we've already covered. These being mentioned separately
says that they *aren't* apocalyptic monsters, just your run of the mill
monsters.
> Nothing to earn any sort
> of reward. Remember The Oracles say as much in IWRY. They acknowledge
> that he is, in fact, free but not because he earned it.
Who were they to say? They were also saying things like him owing them
fealty, when Angel never swore any oaths to obey them. They were
talking out their asses.
Don Sample
"ajs...@aol.com" <ajs...@aol.com> wrote:
Sooner or later, he's going to, though. Nothing lives forever, not even
a vampire. Sometime there's going to be some monster that's a little
faster than him, that'll rip off his head, or he'll slip and fall on a
pencil, or he'll forget what time it is and walk out into a bright sunny
day. If he can manage to live a few billion years, then the sun will
expand and consume the Earth, and him with it. Eventually he will die.
Don Sample
The Shanshu prophecy makes no mention of the Powers that Be granting
Angel his humanity. Just that he will become human, and he did.
Elisi
"Ah, the vampire with a soul, once he fulfills his destiny, will
Shanshu. Become human. - It's his reward."
Sorry, but I can't believe that accidentally running into a Mohra demon
was his destiny. Also you only get a reward once you've done something
to earn it.
Don Sample
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
The Mohra was the delivery boy. Becoming human was the destiny
foretold, ant that's what happened. Angel fulfilled it, and then he
gave it back. The "Become human. - It's his reward" was Wesley's
comment on the prophecy, not part of the prophecy itself. Wesley's
comments on prophecy don't have a very good track record for their
accuracy.
And let's not forget the Master's words of wisdom: "Prophecies are
tricky creatures. They don't tell you everything."
One Bit Shy
news:1148768649.3...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 22: "To Shanshu In L.A.")
> (or "Scythes matter")
Voca, the scourge of failed plots
> Writer: David Greenwalt
> Director: David Greenwalt
>
> Well, you of Usenet have said that the year of ATS ended stronger than
> the mediocre season would lead one to believe. I agree with that. I
> do think the series might be going somewhere now, but it's fooled me
> into thinking that before (after the first few, and then again by
> following "Somnambulist" with a string of blah). It says something
> that all of the Excellents that the series has managed in my ratings
> were Special Crossover Episodes. Even with them, Season One scores
> lower than any season of BTVS in terms of mean score, and ties with
> BTVS S1 with a fairly dismal percentage of really worthwhile episodes:
> 50%. But I'm quietly happy to at least be ending with a pair of
> episodes like BD and TSILA that highlight the show's potential.
I think the season has one brilliant moment with Faith and a few scattered
entertaining moments in various styles that never were effectively built
upon. The season as a whole struck me as rather pedestrian. The vampire
concept and BtVS characters were enough to maintain a certain level of
entertainment to keep it worth watching. But not enough to make a mark, let
alone give it the kind of special status one might hope for a BtVS spinoff.
This finale does go out on a relative high note, though hardly on the level
of any of the 7 BtVS finales. (I don't really want to have to keep making
that comparison - but until AtS more clearly establishes its own identity,
it's hard not to.)
Indeed, as a season finale, it's approach to season closure appears mainly
to sweep the past away. It's greatest attribute the implicit promise that
next season will be more interesting. It's biggest surprise being the
return of Darla. But with only a glimpse of her, an assigned task for her
to take Angel away from the PTB, and a heavy dose of tune in next year. I
guess that's a kind of cliff hanger. Rather lacking in immediate peril, but
with most of what has transpired to date blown up, killed, transformed or
otherwise swept away, what's left but to look ahead?
That's my problem with the episode. While it is fairly well made with a
number of nice moments, it's rather unsatisfying to me as a season finale.
It's not the culmination of much of anything. Unless bringing in a surprise
demon to trash everything represents culmination. The substantive parts are
pretty much all new developments. I'm curious how fans at the time reacted
to the introduction of Darla immediately followed by however many months of
hiatus before S2 commenced. I know I'm glad I don't have to wait so long.
Perhaps that's what the series needed to have happened. I couldn't really
dispute that. But it doesn't make what happened here any more satisfying to
me.
> So was Joss too busy with "Restless" to write another finale, or is
> _Angel_ David's baby? And I'd gotten the impression that _Buffy_
> was the show that kinda got left behind while Joss worked on ATS and
> FF.
The impression I have is that Joss's involvement with AtS was pretty much
always at a much lower level than his other series. Though it's hard for me
to make sense out of what exactly that means. There was a lot of overlap of
production people in these series - and I can't help but note how episode
commentaries so often are filled with cross references to the other series.
Joss seems to be such an obsessive control freak to what he's involved in
that I suspect a greatly reduced level of involvement could still feel like
him breathing down your neck.
> We pick up on our Big Dumb Prophecy as introduced last week. I'm not
> much for prophecies, but apparently even the Buffyverse writers don't
> love them either, given that they work in mysterious ways and are so
> easily misinterpreted anyway.
That's actually what I like about prophecies - all the crazy ambiguity and
misdirection make for fun plot twists. "Don't believe everything you're
foretold." It reminds me of things I enjoyed in Xena: Warrior Princess.
Indeed there are a few things mixed into Angel - like the PTB stuff - that
remind me a bit of that series. I wonder if that was a conscious influence.
Anyway, Wesley's final interpretation of "shanshu" sounds logical and kind
of definitive. But even with what he's saying, there still seems to be lots
of room for ambiguity and the life/death mix of the word meaning could still
generate misunderstanding. So I don't know. Mystery. Real hope with an
edge of doubt. That I like.
> Until then, we have to deal with our
> characters treating it as a big deal; even Cordelia's commentary on
> the action doesn't have much acid once Shanshu comes up. Whatever.
> While I enjoyed TSILA on an action-adventure level, the big theme of
> Angel's alleged inability to change and grow seems to be based more
> on the characters saying so than springing from anything we've seen.
Well, I have noted two episodes running Angel's evident sense of
disatisfaction. Seeming to lean towards futility as is. I didn't see it as
exactly this - more along the lines of simultaneously being drawn to his
vamp side and wanting to make more headway on his redemption path. But
maybe this sense could be wearing on him too.
On the other hand, this episode is very aggressively changing the playing
field on every other front. Why not this too?
> Compare 1996 Angel from "Becoming" with the present-day version and
> try to tell me he's unchanged. I do like the way Boreanaz plays the
> attempt to contain his happiness at the end.
That's true, but I don't think Wesley's observations really conflict with
that. It's not that things can't happen in Angel's world and alter his
outlook or whatever. It's just that he's still stuck in a perpetual
physical state and blocked from fully participating in the living world
around him. There may even be a touch of a statement on the perpetual soul
question. This might imply how much he remembers of living, and yearns for
it, perhaps in the sense of his life having been wrenched from him as a
young man.
I don't know. It may be worth saying also that this is Wesley's take -
which also persuades Cordelia. That doesn't mean it must be fully accurate.
I imagine that Angel himself has some other nuances mixed in.
> As usual, the opening scenes at least involve some humor before we get
> too serious; Angel continuing to calmly read his book while everyone
> else falls to pieces is worthwhile. The teaser also includes one of my
> favorite bits of back-n-forth dialogue in awhile - it just really
> clicked for me for some reason:
> Cordelia: Well, hurry up and figure out what it says about Angel,
> because - I wanna know what it says about me. If there is torrid
> romance in my future? Massive wealth? If I have to, I'll settle for
> enviable fame.
> Wesley [annoyed]: This is an ancient sacred text, not a magic eight
> ball.
> Cordelia: Nobody gets my humor.
> Angel [deadpan and expressionless]: I thought it was funny.
> Cordelia: Hmm.
Angel's deadpan delivery makes for the funniest moment in the episode for
me. On the whole I enjoyed all of their conversations at the beginning and
at the end. (Cordelia was so cute wagging her shoulders and trying to push
Angel to "Get out of the house.") Very nice chemistry. And Angel's general
super understated manner was better used this episode than I can remember in
some time.
> Meanwhile an ominous robed guy stalks ominously. We use David Nabbit
> as an anticlimax,
Compare how many words you commit to the David Nabbit part to how long he
was on screen. God I hated that part. Whatever function he may have
performed, once they got him into the scene they were stuck forever trying
to get him out. Though I confess I think it could be funny if Cordelia
tried to seduce him. Mean to both of them, but with comic potential.
> then move on to the summoning of our proximate
> villain. Even though he's just the one-episode enemy, it hurts that
> he looks so utterly ridiculous. Is that plastic Halloween mask
> supposed to be his face, or just a stupid mask? Anyway, Voca is
> aligned with our friends at W&H, who have a more minor part throughout
> the episode than I'd expected. We mainly stay with the AI team as
> they're hunted. Silly looks aside, our hunter is a smooth operator.
> I was worried that he'd be able to get close enough to the weapons
> locker to see Angel enter a combination, without being observed, which
> would've been weak. Instead he just stays way back, and then rips
> the cabinet open. Works for me. Blowing up the Angel Investigations
> building is unexpected, one of the more arresting moments of the
> episode. Also let's mention his attack on the Oracles, since I'd
> been thinking of the PTB and their agents as apathetic but fairly
> eternal and such. This end-of-an-era feel changes the character of a
> series a little bit. Enjoyed the oracle talking more normally once
> dead (and not liking it, so far).
Sweep the past away.
> I'm not really affected too much one way or the other by Cordelia
> being driven insane by getting all her headache-visions at once. For
> me the episode was less about her and more about what she means to
> Angel. How much the experience has changed her doesn't seem too
> overplayed at the end, which I'm glad of; there's not really a need
> for a dramatic life-changing character overhaul. Let the new her and
> the old her coexist.
I liked the play of the scene at the outdoor shopping stalls a lot. That
kind of bright daylight moment isn't available a lot, so it feels fresh for
that alone. But it's also so full of life, which I suppose fits well with
the desire to draw Angel into the world of the living. It's also, I think,
the demon's finest moment with the light deadly touch on Cordy's hand. A
classic creep moment - especially since his getup (and scythe in other
scenes) is so suggestive of the classic image of death's touch from behind.
I think Cordelia's experience is intended to be one of the big changes
established this episode - but played out next season. In the meantime, I
agree that it's function is to draw out Angel's care for her. As probably
are Angel's remarks about liking her joke and liking both Cordelia's at the
end. This reminds me again of why I thought Cordelia in the cast made
sense. Angel seemed to have a little bit of a soft spot for Cordelia back
in BtVS. We were even reminded of that some episodes back when Angel fondly
recalls high school Cordelia and her Cordettes.
> Isolated from his crew, Angel has a couple surprisingly brief
> encounters with Gunn and Kate. One of them is becoming a more regular
> ally, the other is, contrary to how I'd expected the season to play
> out, becoming something of an enemy, depending on her ultimate coping
> methods. The confrontation with Kate in which he finally loses his
> temper with her irrationality is great; "Now, I'm sorry about your
> father. But I didn't kill your father. And I'm sick and tired of you
> blaming me for everything you can't handle! You want to be enemies?
> Try me." I always like seeing Angel in a cold rage, as we also get
> at the end when he starts whaling on anyone in his path with a scythe.
I get the feeling that this is supposed to show Kate progressing from where
we saw her in Sanctuary, so that she's now seriously going off the deep end.
I don't know if that means nervous breakdown or knock down drag out fight
with Angel. It's a pretty rapid progression - not necessarily unreasonable
considering her history, but not much shown either. To me it's another part
of this episode's radical adjustment to the series setup.
> And the climax itself is a bit small-scale, but pretty cool. I
> didn't like seeing the chanting ritual played straight until before
> the commercial break, although the show does eventually get around to
> poking a little fun at them with Holland's classic "you never want
> to be on time for a ritual. The chanting, the blood rites, they go on
> forever." But then, yeah, good things.
Good line. I generally like this kind of ritual - I'm a sucker for the
atmospheric effect - but certainly don't like it dragging on. I'm satisfied
with the depiction here.
> The cartoony but still cool
> vamp-dusting energywhirls. Angel in touch with his inner killer,
> laying into everyone. Lindsey having another big moment in which he
> decides he wants to be a part of this and picking up the ritual where
> Voca left off. And once violence can conceivably be justified,
> Angel's quick to take off his whole fucking arm,
> 'Revelations"-style. "Don't believe everything you're
> foretold." Rawk. It's a smaller version of the same thrill I got
> when he threw Lindsey's client through a window back at the beginning
> of the year.
The fight was ok. The closing with Lindsey very good. I think Lindsey's
character moment came earlier though, when he had to step into the breech to
complete the ritual. I think that's when he made the real commitment to his
path and firmly placed himself on the W&H side of the line in the inevitable
faceoff with Angel. I'm not sure he would have held onto the scroll before
that.
A little thing I liked was W&H calmly rolling out the box while the fight
continued. Always working in the background.
> I think his last scene is the first time we see Angel consider feeding
> in front of any of his friends.
I think that's intended as Cordy's big moment. Serving Angel at such a
personal level (from Angel's point of view) being the biggest clue to the
depth of her change.
> So our heroes make it through intact, but the stories don't end with
> the season; "To Shanshu" is as much setup as it is resolution.
> It's not really a victory either, since the villains succeed in using
> their scroll to summon up an anti-Angel weapon, which was the whole
> point of the exercise... and then Darla's in the box at the end!
> First of all, wha? Second of all, this could be quite interesting.
> Third of all, wha?
Wait 'till next season.
Forgetting my general disappointment with the way this episode was used, I
have to say that the prospect of adding Darla to the cast is quite exciting.
We know that she's still bright in his memories. And, well, she's Darla.
> Both shows could use some improvement, and I think the potential's
> there. Now, I believe five days has become the standard between-season
> wait time? We'll alternate episodes again, starting with _Buffy_,
> for at least another year, although I might switch formats after the
> network breakup. Thanks for reading, and see you next "year."
And thank you. I could actually use a few days break right now. But I
imagine I'll be bored soon enough without it...
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: A solid end to a weak era, and hopefully the
> beginning of a better one.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
It's a good presentation, but its impression upon the season drags it down
to a Decent for me.
Since we're operating on much more comparable grounds for this series, I'm
curious to see how we compared so...
> [Season One ratings:
> 1) "City Of" - Good
OBS - Good
> 2) "Lonely Hearts" - Weak
OBS - Good
> 3) "Into The Dark" - Good
OBS - Decent
> 4) "I Fall To Pieces" - Good
OBS - Weak
> 5) "Rm W/ A Vu" - Decent
OBS - Good
> 6) "Sense And Sensitivity" - Weak
OBS - Good
> 7) "The Bachelor Party" - Decent
OBS - Decent
> 8) "I Will Remember You" - Excellent
OBS - Good
> 9) "Hero" - Good
OBS - Decent (and only because of Doyle - otherwise this would be
the worst)
> 10) "Parting Gifts" - Decent
OBS - Decent
> 11) "Somnambulist" - Good
OBS - Good
> 12) "Expecting" - Bad
OBS - Decent
> 13) "She" - Good
OBS - Weak
> 14) "I've Got You Under My Skin" - Decent
OBS - Weak
> 15) "The Prodigal" - Decent
OBS - Good
> 16) "The Ring" - Decent
OBS - Decent
> 17) "Eternity" - Decent
OBS - Decent
> 18) "Five By Five" - Excellent
OBS - Excellent
> 19) "Sanctuary" - Excellent
OBS - Excellent
> 20) "War Zone" - Decent
OBS - Weak
> 21) "Blind Date" - Good
OBS - Good
> 22) "To Shanshu In L.A." - Good]
OBS - Decent
>
>
> BY THE NUMBERS
>
> _Angel_ Season One
>
> Bad - 1
> Weak - 2
> Decent - 8
> Good - 8
> Excellent - 3
> Average rating: 3.45 ["Decent plus"] (Decent=3)
> Quality Percentage [% of episodes ranking Good or higher]: 50%
For me 2 Excellent, 8 Good, 8 Decent, 4 Weak, 0 Bad
3.36 Average. 45% Qaulity
Pretty close to the same overall rating, though only 9 episodes were rated
the same. Interesting to me is that we gave the same rating to 5 of the
last 7. Before that only 4 of the prior 15.
OBS
Elisi
Gur gheavat uhzna vf whfg gur rcvybthr. Gur funafuh cebcurpl vgfrys
pbapreaf vgfrys jvgu _Gur Ncbpnylcfr_ - naq jr ner yrq gb oryvrir
guebhtu yngre frnfbaf gung guvf vf gur ncbpnylcfr bs Jbysenz & Uneg.
Fvapr 'Gur Inzcver Jvgu N Fbhy' jvyy cynl n qrpvqvat ebyr sbe tbbq be
rivy va guvf ncbpnylcfr, J&U fcraq gur arkg sbhe frnfbaf ubcvat gb ghea
Natry rivy. Vs ur unq *nyernql* shyysvyyrq uvf cneg cerggl zhpu nyy bs
NgF orpbzrf abafrafr.
Nyfb Wbff nyzbfg raqrq NgF jvgu yrggvat Fcvxr trg gur funafuh - urapr
vg pbhyq abg nyernql unir unccrarq!
Espen Schjønberg
Phg gur penc. Gur funafuh jnf pbaabe. Jura pbaabe yvirq, natry xarj ur
yvirq ba. Gungf gur xvaq bs guvat lbh jvyy trg jvgu cebcurpvrf - n
yvggyr gjvfg.
--
Espen
Don Sample
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bbbxnl. V cebonoyl jba'g punatr lbhe zvaq, ohg urer tbrf.
>
> Gur gheavat uhzna vf whfg gur rcvybthr. Gur funafuh cebcurpl vgfrys
> pbapreaf vgfrys jvgu _Gur Ncbpnylcfr_ - naq jr ner yrq gb oryvrir
> guebhtu yngre frnfbaf gung guvf vf gur ncbpnylcfr bs Jbysenz & Uneg.
> Fvapr 'Gur Inzcver Jvgu N Fbhy' jvyy cynl n qrpvqvat ebyr sbe tbbq be
> rivy va guvf ncbpnylcfr, J&U fcraq gur arkg sbhe frnfbaf ubcvat gb ghea
> Natry rivy. Vs ur unq *nyernql* shyysvyyrq uvf cneg cerggl zhpu nyy bs
> NgF orpbzrf abafrafr.
Gur envfvat bs Npnguyn. Natry cynlrq n cvibgny ebyr sbe rivy va gung
bar, naq gura nf uvf fbhyrq frys, znqr gur hygvzngr fnpevsvpr gb fnir
gur jbeyq. Vs gung qbrfa'g qrfreir fbzr erjneq, jung qbrf?
Jbysenz naq Uneg jnfgvat nyy gung rssbeg ba gur cebcurpl whfg fubjf gung
gurl ernq vg jebat gbb. Gur snpg gung gurl pbhyqa'g svther bhg juvpu
fvqr Natry jnf fhccbfrq gb or ba fubjf gung gurer jnf n ybg bs ebbz sbe
vagrecergngvba va jung gurl jrer ernqvat. Jrer gurl rire gbyq nobhg
Natry orpbzvat uhzna sbe n qnl, naq gura tvivat vg onpx? Vs gurl'q
xabja nobhg gung, gurl zvtug unir ernyvmrq gurve zvfgnxr naq tvira hc ba
gur jubyr guvat.
> Nyfb Wbff nyzbfg raqrq NgF jvgu yrggvat Fcvxr trg gur funafuh - urapr
> vg pbhyq abg nyernql unir unccrarq!
Wbff nyfb fnvq gung ur unq cynaf sbe na nyy ahqr, nyy fvatvat, nyy
qnapvat rcvfbqr bs Ohssl. Jung Wbff fnlf nobhg uvf cynaf vf nyzbfg
nyjnlf n yvr.
Elisi
unir n ceboyrz jvgu.
Don Sample
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1148768649.3...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > We pick up on our Big Dumb Prophecy as introduced last week. I'm not
> > much for prophecies, but apparently even the Buffyverse writers don't
> > love them either, given that they work in mysterious ways and are so
> > easily misinterpreted anyway.
>
> That's actually what I like about prophecies - all the crazy ambiguity and
> misdirection make for fun plot twists. "Don't believe everything you're
> foretold." It reminds me of things I enjoyed in Xena: Warrior Princess.
> Indeed there are a few things mixed into Angel - like the PTB stuff - that
> remind me a bit of that series. I wonder if that was a conscious influence.
>
> Anyway, Wesley's final interpretation of "shanshu" sounds logical and kind
> of definitive. But even with what he's saying, there still seems to be lots
> of room for ambiguity and the life/death mix of the word meaning could still
> generate misunderstanding. So I don't know. Mystery. Real hope with an
> edge of doubt. That I like.
Have any of them, to this point in either series, encountered a prophecy
that was worth the paper it was printed on? Even the ones that turn out
to be true, have generally only been true in retrospect, after they've
learned that their initial interpretation was wrong. (N geraq gung jvyy
pbagvahr va shgher frnfbaf.) Why do they even bother looking at the
things anymore?
Espen Schjønberg
>
> Have any of them, to this point in either series, encountered a prophecy
> that was worth the paper it was printed on? Even the ones that turn out
> to be true, have generally only been true in retrospect, after they've
> learned that their initial interpretation was wrong. (N geraq gung jvyy
> pbagvahr va shgher frnfbaf.) Why do they even bother looking at the
> things anymore?
Given "the other side" also reads the prophecies, they would have been
really stupid not to read them.
But they could perhaps be a bit less dogmatic about the stuff.
--
Espen
Elisi
>qnapvat rcvfbqr bs Ohssl. Jung Wbff fnlf nobhg uvf cynaf vf nyzbfg
>nyjnlf n yvr.
Va n erprag vagreivrj _Qnivq Shel_ fnvq gung ur jnagrq gb raq NgF jvgu
Natry
rneavat gur funafuh, gura tvivat vg gb Fcvxr. Fcvxr jbhyq or shevbhf
(orpnhfr ur jnagrq gb rnea vg uvzfrys, gunaxlbhirelzhpu!), ohg jbhyq
gura tb bss gb Ebzr gb or jvgu Ohssl. Wbff qvqa'g tb jvgu vg orpnhfr ur
jnagrq gb xrrc Fcvxr n inzcver vs ur rire tbg ebhaq gb znxvat n gi
zbivr.
Naq vg pbhyq or nethrq gung Fcvxr vf gur bar va gur cebcurpl nf sne
onpx nf 'Orpbzvat':
Juvfgyre: "V svtherq guvf sbe Natry'f ovt qnl. Ohg V gubhtug ur jnf
urer gb
*fgbc* Npnguyn, abg gb oevat uvz sbegu."
Fvapr Fcvxr jnf gur bar jub urycrq gb fgbc Npnguyn, naq ur yngre tbg n
fbhy, ur zvtug irel jryy or gur bar Juvfgyre unq ernq/urneq nobhg
(fvapr ur boivbhfyl xarj gung n inzcver jbhyq cynl na vzcbegnag ebyr).
Abg gung vg znggref ernyyl - V guvax gur vapvqrag jvgu gur Zbuen qrzba
vf nxva gb jung jbhyq unir unccrarq vs Ohssl _unqa'g_ tbar gb zrrg gur
Znfgre va Cebcurpl Tvey. Na noorengvba, abg n shysvyyzrag.
Lbh boivbhfyl qba'g nterr, juvpu V guvax vf n funzr.
One Bit Shy
news:dsample-DFE7C6...@news.giganews.com...
It's the same reason governments put so much stock in spies and
"intelligence" even though they are so often and so horribly led wrong.
They simply can't resist the idea of inside knowledge giving them a special
edge.
I consider it a kind of confidence game where one exploits the greed of the
marks convinced they have an unbeatable advantage.
I love the stories it generates. There are tons of great flim flam stories.
Prophecies run afoul aren't as commonly used, but still exist in number and
I think are great fun.
OBS
BTR1701
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> "Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
> > Have any of them, to this point in either series, encountered a prophecy
> > that was worth the paper it was printed on? Even the ones that turn out
> > to be true, have generally only been true in retrospect, after they've
> > learned that their initial interpretation was wrong. (N geraq gung jvyy
> > pbagvahr va shgher frnfbaf.) Why do they even bother looking at the
> > things anymore?
>
> It's the same reason governments put so much stock in spies and
> "intelligence" even though they are so often and so horribly led wrong.
That doesn't happen often at all. You never hear of the tens of
thousands of times intelligence has saved the day. You only hear of the
failures.
Slayah
> - Cordelia's facial expressions during the donut scene.
omg, that ever-changing donut!! Watch it, I count five different donuts
(that are supposed to be the one donut).
Mel
Gur cbvag fgvyy orvat, vg qvqa'g unccra jvgu VJEL.
Mel
Apteryx
news:127jti5...@news.supernews.com...
>
> Anyway, Wesley's final interpretation of "shanshu" sounds logical and kind
> of definitive. But even with what he's saying, there still seems to be
> lots of room for ambiguity and the life/death mix of the word meaning
> could still generate misunderstanding. So I don't know. Mystery. Real
> hope with an edge of doubt. That I like.
I thought they made a bit of a meal of Wesley's interpretation. As if you
have to go to the "proto Bantu" for a word to explain the intertwing of life
and death in the notion of a creature that lives until he dies. The English
word "mortal" comes to mind.
--
Apteryx
Apteryx
> In article <1148794335.3...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "ajs...@aol.com" <ajs...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> The biggest problem with thinking that Angel already had his shanshu
>> is that he didn't die at the end of his period of humanity. Wesley
>> said that it meant to both live and die, he didn't actually accomplish
>> the latter.
>
> Sooner or later, he's going to, though. Nothing lives forever, not even
> a vampire. Sometime there's going to be some monster that's a little
> faster than him, that'll rip off his head, or he'll slip and fall on a
> pencil, or he'll forget what time it is and walk out into a bright sunny
> day. If he can manage to live a few billion years, then the sun will
> expand and consume the Earth, and him with it. Eventually he will die.
That's true, but knowing that actually weakens the story. It's just what I
was thinking when Cordy reacted with shock and horror to the initial
interpretation that Angel was going to die - so what, it doesn't say when,
and the fact that he's going to die is guaranteed, with or without an
ancient prophecy.
--
Apteryx
(Harmony) Watcher
> "ajs...@aol.com" <ajs...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > The biggest problem with thinking that Angel already had his shanshu
> > is that he didn't die at the end of his period of humanity. Wesley
> > said that it meant to both live and die, he didn't actually accomplish
> > the latter.
>
> Sooner or later, he's going to, though. Nothing lives forever, not even
> a vampire. Sometime there's going to be some monster that's a little
> faster than him, that'll rip off his head, or he'll slip and fall on a
> pencil, or he'll forget what time it is and walk out into a bright sunny
> day. If he can manage to live a few billion years, then the sun will
> expand and consume the Earth, and him with it. Eventually he will die.
>
>
prophecy, I gotta say that prophecies aren't what they used to be anymore.
Does not work for me because that would be uninteresting fiction for me
personally.
==Harmony Watcher==
Mel
Apteryx wrote:
I'm sure that logic would have made Buffy feel sooooo much better in
"Prophecy Girl."
Mel
Don Sample
It was the sort of death that standard interpretation of the prophecy
has said he would have, all along. Angel would become human, and then
age and die, just like everyone else.
And I think it makes a nicely ironic fiction. Angel spends the next
four seasons running after Shanshu, only to find he's already had it,
and given it up.
Don Sample
wrote:
Another prophecy that they should have ignored. If they had never known
about it, Buffy wouldn't have gone down to meet the Master. He wouldn't
have killed her, and escaped.
Apteryx
news:XpCdnSFBWor...@uci.net...
Maybe if she was really really stoical, like Hamlet - "If it be now,'tis not
to come; if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will
come: the readiness is all". And Hamlet didn't know for a fact what she knew
in Prophecy Girl, that she would die tomorrow night (besides, he was defying
augury).
You are going to die, and so am I. But that's no cause for alarm, until
there's a guy in a white coat with test results in his hand, saying we are
going to die in 4-6 hours. At least we know we'll die sometime in the next
100 years, baring a major medical breakthrough. Angel doesn't even know
that, even with the prophecy.
Cordy's alarm at the prophecy that Angel will die is not rational. For all
she knows from the prophecy, she will be dead before Angel, even if she dies
of old age, surrounded by great-great-grandchildren, at 102.
--
Apteryx
Mel
Why wouldn't she have gone to face the Master? After what Willow saw she
definitely would have gone. The only reason she _wasn't_ going was
because of the prophecy. She probably would have kicked his butt the
first time since she wouldn't have been in a "doomed" state of mind.
Mel
Kisses To You
season of Angel ?????Are you kidding me?Season two is AMAZING it blows
one away.I would say season 2 and 4 are my faovrites.Don't wait a year
to watch it.Also how come you havent mentioned Darla ?Or don't you
recognize her in the end of shansu???
Kisses To You
mention darla ..lol
Elisi
Mel
Kisses To You wrote:
No need to worry....AOQ's off-season lasts about 5 days :-)
We should be getting the first new review of Buffy (5x1) by the weekend
and Angel 2x1 soon thereafter.
Mel