AOQ Review 6-9: "Wrecked"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
(or "I want you to scrape me from the wall/And go crazy, like
you've made me")
Writer: Marti Noxon
Director: David Solomon
I guess at some point in the show's life, it had to do a car crash.
In Willow's defense maybe she was, like me, impaired from properly
absorbing the events because she was blinded by the glaring light
reflecting from Anya's hair.
So things begin with there suddenly being cartoons; appropriately
disorienting for the chicks who were left behind. The show is doing a
good job stringing the viewer along wondering where Tara's going to
end up fitting into the rest of S6; characters who break up don't
inevitably get back together in this show, but we'll see.
The teaser ends on the aftermath of the Möbius Twins' time together
in "Smashed," and it looks like they finally got around to ditching
the clothes. Stop me if you've heard this one before - Buffy
starts talking about how she'll NEVER do anything like this, ever
again, and Spike tries to play the "you're teasing/wallowing" and
"I'm not playing this game anymore" cards, and she starts hitting
him... you know, since the dialogue here is practically identical to
that in the last three episodes, let's just say that I still have the
same issues. My god, show, when a wild sex scene still can't get
your plot to go anywhere new, you're in trouble. Have her accept the
strange relationship, or redefine it into something more, or walk away
from it for good (no, the ending here does not count), or *something
that's not this*. Please.
I'm eager to move on from B/S now, but let me say that there once
again are a few redeeming bits in their interactions in "Wrecked,"
mostly coming when she recruits him to look for Dawn. This brings
back an important element of what brought the two together in the first
place, and shows that a few important things haven't changed: despite
them driving each other nuts and the fact that Spike still wants to be
evil, his devotion means that she trusts and values him as an ally when
Dawn's in trouble. And others, but mostly Dawn. To that end,
Spike's last appearance puts him back in his late-S5 role as a member
of Buffy's team. That's one of the reasons why even barring all
their other issues, they won't be totally apart.
"Wrecked" is primarily a Willow show for me. An early scene
that's quietly interesting is her reaction to being drained of magic;
seemingly too tired to think or worry too hard about it, she stands up
and closes the window herself and lies back down... but her eyes stay
open. How concerned is she about whether her powers will come back,
and what's she planning next? Jumping ahead a little, what about her
crying in the shower, and subsequently turning to the animated Tara
outfit for comfort? It's one of those episodes that seems to
engender constant speculation.
Somewhere in here, Xander drives by to briefly be the one who can
properly summarize the sensible worries about what Willow's going
through. The closing scene between her and Buffy has her play it as if
magic is an addiction, and she's not wrong, but another viewpoint
that works maybe better for me is that of a seduction. (I swear that I
wrote the preceding sentence before reading OBS's mention of this in
the TR thread.) That came up a little in the previous episode, and
with the way Buffy continues to draw mental parallels to what they're
going through. Willow keeps going back because it's all just so
exciting to her as people welcome her to the next level... "Is it
dangerous?" "Would that stop you?"
Here Amy's bad influence leads to Platform Nine-And-Three-Quarters,
and subsequently to Rack, a strange guy who runs a strange operation.
He curtly dismisses Rat Girl as out of her league, but takes an
interest in Willow, which leads to some of the show's stranger
sequences. The hovering on the ceiling over the blare of techno is yet
another way of portraying the Mystic Arts that BTVS hasn't used
before, and both the "tasting" and the aforementioned sequence have
a strong sexual edge; I like this whole part pretty well, but my main
adjective would still be "strange." I'm pretty unclear - okay,
totally unclear - on what most of those quick-flashing images are
about, other than introducing the monster, but that's not a problem
in a setting like this. I notice that Hannigan's makeup seems
designed to make her look witchier than usual during the first Rack
scene. And while we're noticing her, she's worn very flattering
shirts lately, and the later sequences seem like they're finding ways
to show her wearing nothing. Can't complain there, unless it gets
too blatant; yet another parallel with the Spike story, huh?
Dawn's getting quirkier in her old age and continuing to try to
convince us that she has a personality to go along with all that plot
device, especially during her attempts at cooking. "Spatulas are for
wimps." She and Willow go out for food and movies, like she did with
Tara the night before. I don't want to go too deeply into this
analogy, but it's like staging a competition between parents after a
divorce. Or just trying to forge an independent relationship with each
one. At first it seems like she might be an anchor for the Red Witch,
and have a good night, but then she ends up getting left behind while
the other loses track of time during another, cheesier magic sequence
("these are the voyages of the starship Willow..."). A noticable
step in the addiction process given the way Wil's been in the past
with regard to responsibility.
So the aftermath leading up to the big action stuff is very good, with
Dawn realizing how uncomfortable she is with what she's gotten
herself into, while her host is getting more pushily friendly. It's
not always this extreme, obviously, but many of us have probably been
in a situation something like this at some point in our lives: growing
misgivings about the person whose power you're in, since you need
him/her for a ride home (or protection, as the case may be), and
you're fervently hoping they'll be cooperative, and you can get out
of there and never be out alone with them again. That resonated.
Willow laughing hysterically while magically swerving the car around is
just the extension of that, and makes for a memorable setpiece.
That's quite a kick from Dawn during the first demon attack.
Where'd that come from? Genes?
One thing that's got to be difficult for an actor is scenes that
require saying or sobbing the same word over and over. I can't
imagine any way to pull that off that doesn't seem at least somewhat
forced. Hell, it even seemed a bit weird from Eliza Dushku in FxF, and
that's my gold standard for scenes involving Bufyverse characters
collapsing in tears. And in most such circumstances the character is
supposed to sound unpleasantly pathetic, so it's hard to separate the
acting from the situation. Sadly, Hannigan continues her streak of not
working very well for me in moments like this. I was expecting one of
those great bits of cold fury from Buffy, but it seems like she can't
quite muster it, since she's seeing herself, and that's not what
the situation calls for. Based on the last conversation, the accident
seems to have had an effect on Willow, gotten through to her in some
way on a level that Tara leaving didn't. Interesting. She still
goes with the big dramatic gestures, here foreswearing magic entirely,
despite seeming uncertain whether she can. Anyway, the last image
shows the two girls trying to ward off their temptations, and now
first-run viewers get a month off to speculate on if and how long this
might last...
Who's J.D. Peralta?
So...
One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Six so far:
1) "Bargaining" - Decent
2) "After Life" - Good
3) "Flooded" - Decent
4) "Life Serial" - Good
5) "All The Way" - Good
6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good
8) "Smashed" - Decent
9) "Wrecked" - Good]
EGK
wrote:
>One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>
>AOQ rating: Good
Wow! I admit I was half expecting you to like this one given how many times
your reviews ratings are so far from my own. I'm still amazed. Wrecked is
one of the worst episodes of the whole series bar none. It totally
destroyed the character of Willow for many people.
If you liked this then you should be one of the season 6 lovers for sure. It
sucked beyond the telling of it. Suddenly magic is like crack or heroin
complete with Willow selling her body to Rack (She smells like strawberries)
andsuffering from the DT's. Ugghhhh
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
Buffy is not in a good place now, and this is not a healthy
relationship. It isn't going to be something that she will just get
over.
> That's quite a kick from Dawn during the first demon attack.
> Where'd that come from? Genes?
Another example of Dawn being able to do a pretty good job of taking
care of herself. Even with a broken arm she manages to keep herself
from being killed by a monster that gives Buffy a hard time.
> Who's J.D. Peralta?
Marti Noxon's assistant, who had recently died of cancer.
This episode is one that many people felt went way overboard with the
metaphor. Magic is like drugs. Magic is bad, mkay. We get to see
Willow all strung out and having withdrawal symptoms after her magic
binges.
If they wanted to do a magic addiction comparison, I think it would have
been much better if they'd likened it to an addiction to gambling.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Horace LaBadie
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> Who's J.D. Peralta?
>
Assistant to the Producer. Listed in the end credits. She fell ill with
cancer, and died rather suddenly.
HWL
burt...@hotmail.com
> On 10 Aug 2006 21:43:31 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
> >
> >AOQ rating: Good
>
> Wow! I admit I was half expecting you to like this one given how many times
> your reviews ratings are so far from my own. I'm still amazed. Wrecked is
> one of the worst episodes of the whole series bar none. It totally
> destroyed the character of Willow for many people.
They were already well on the way to destroying the character of Willow
in the season 6 episodes before this. "Wrecked" was more about
destroying the show, for me. I could have lived without ever seeing
Willow (metaphorically) suck dick for crack, thank you very much. Add
in the driving while high, the car crash, and Willow's desperate,
babbled apologies....
This isn't an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it's a damned
after-school special.
> If you liked this then you should be one of the season 6 lovers for sure. It
> sucked beyond the telling of it. Suddenly magic is like crack or heroin
> complete with Willow selling her body to Rack (She smells like strawberries)
> andsuffering from the DT's. Ugghhhh
"Strawberry" is a slang term for a crack whore, in case you (or anyone
else) didn't know, btw. Yeah, this "metaphor" had all the subtlety of a
sledgehammer to the face.
EGK
>EGK wrote:
>> If you liked this then you should be one of the season 6 lovers for sure. It
>> sucked beyond the telling of it. Suddenly magic is like crack or heroin
>> complete with Willow selling her body to Rack (She smells like strawberries)
>> andsuffering from the DT's. Ugghhhh
>
>"Strawberry" is a slang term for a crack whore, in case you (or anyone
>else) didn't know, btw. Yeah, this "metaphor" had all the subtlety of a
>sledgehammer to the face.
That's why I mentioned the reference. Rack said she smelled like
strawberries. I'm not sure but at the time this originally aired I was one
of the only people who seemed to get that and was surprised. Not that I
have a lot of experience with crack whores :) but I had heard the term
before.
Lord Usher
news:1155271411.5...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Ye Gods. I gave you a pass when you dissed my top ANGEL moment of all
time (well, I got too busy to mention it at the time, but whatever :) ),
but this time you've gone too far.
"Wrecked" is bad. Really, really bad. Bad in the worst way an episode
can be bad -- it takes some of the most fascinating issues the series
has ever raised, and one of the most promising storylines the series has
ever attempted, and *ruins* them forever.
But, hey, I've said it all before:
"And ISTM that the Demonic Crack house isn't even all that great a
metaphor for Willow's addiction. Her bag has never been 'freedom' or
'letting go.' It's always been about *control*. When Tara started to
turn away, her reaction wasn't, 'It's all my fault; I should cast a
spell that makes me more open and loving so Tara likes me better.' It
was, 'There's something wrong with *her*; I should cast a spell to force
her into the persona that pleases *me*.'
"The Willow who started to emerge towards the end of last season, who
ran after Glory with a bag of knives, who warned Giles not to piss her
off, whose darkest nightmare is that she's still a terrified little girl
with no control over any aspect of her life, should *not* have been
pleased by Mr. Warlock's little spell. Floating helplessly through
alternate dimensions while some creep sucks metaphysical strawberries
out of her? That's a *passive* fantasy, a fantasy of surrender, and I
don't buy that Willow would be anything but appalled by it."
*****
"'Wrecked' was a calculated cop-out designed to tank that central
component of Willow's arc. Suddenly Willow doesn't feel compelled to
cast spells that give her control over her environment and her loved
ones; she feels the need to cast *any* spell -- even spells that leave
her *powerless* -- simply because casting spells gets her off. Suddenly
she doesn't need help because she's using magick to bring everyone
around to her point of view; she needs help because she's losing control
and crashing cars and nearly getting her best friend's sister killed
like some damn fool crack whore.
"It's not an elaboration on what came before; it's a bait-and-switch.
Magick is suddenly endowed with an altogether new and unhinted-at
property, physical addiction, which is so obviously a Bad Thing and
leads to such unambiguously terrible and skanky results, that Willow
cannot help but turn over a new leaf. Yet, in doing so, she doesn't have
to address any of the subtler problems with her magick use. Even if she
hasn't come to terms with the fact that mindfucking her friends is
wrong... she's not going to risk using that bad awful magick, because,
hey, it's addictive and that's so terrible and skanky."
--
Lord Usher
"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
Arbitrar Of Quality
> This episode is one that many people felt went way overboard with the
> metaphor. Magic is like drugs. Magic is bad, mkay. We get to see
> Willow all strung out and having withdrawal symptoms after her magic
> binges.
See, I don't think "magic is bad, mmkay," is the message here. There's
more story here than just the surface metaphor. That's certainly part
of the show; obviously the harder stuff is more likely to consume the
witch. People have been complaining that magic is getting too easy,
too powerful. Here's the price.
But spells aren't purely a bad thing. We've seen shy, lovable Willow
develop her magical powers over the last four years or so, and it
hasn't been ominous, it's been exhilarating. It's cute when she';s
floating pencils and making fog, and then it's a triumph to see her
choose a fantastic new life for herself in "Choices." Magic lead to
the vneding machine in "Hush" and the first blow against Glory in "The
Gift." It's only now that it's becoming a problem. Tara's been
casting spells all her life, and that's not a problem. What's the
difference? Again, yes, it's deeper and darker magic now, and the more
potent something is, the less we'd want it in mortal hands. But more
than that, we don't want it in *Willow's* hands. All through these
threads people, presumably knowing this arc was coming, have been
pointing out the fact that this character has a few flaws: her
impulsive decisions, her penchant for violent outbursts of anger, her
relatively weak moral compass. And on top of that, she has an
addictive personality as manisfested in her thirst for knowledge. As
much as I like her, this is not a person who should have the power to
raise the dead or shape people's minds. It's not the doing magic
that's bad, it's Willow doing magic that's become bad.
At the end of "Wrecked," Willow proves that she's strong enough to face
up to where she's gone wrong, or so it seems. It's not clear how
deeply it's sunk in; her desire to give up magic entirely may be right
for her, or it may just be a florid sweeping gesture, the kind she
tends to make when she's in over her head and doesn't really know how
to react. You know how it plays out better than I do... But my basic
punchline is that "Wrecked" is about the user more than the drug. And,
since it's Buffy's show, also about our hero observing all this, and
feeling a growing fear that she's playing with a fire that could burn
her too.
-AOQ
Kermit
for me. I never had any use for Spuffy, but the notion of Willow as
junkie induced nausea. Until someone pointed out a simple and yet
important fact: Just because the characters think she has an addiction
to magic doesn't make it so.
Clearly, whatever it is she is getting from Rack has addictive
properties, but outside of that, when has it ever appeared that Willow
suffered withdrawal symptoms if she stopped using magic? The worries
that Giles and Tara expressed were about the amount of power she
possessed and the uses Willow was putting that power too.
Oh, there is no denying Willow is in trouble, but fortunately,
"addiction" is not the problem. Well, not to magic anyway.
Elfbard
>> times
>> your reviews ratings are so far from my own. I'm still amazed. Wrecked
>> is
>> one of the worst episodes of the whole series bar none. It totally
>> destroyed the character of Willow for many people.
I pretend it never happened and so Willow's still cool for me. :)
> They were already well on the way to destroying the character of Willow
> in the season 6 episodes before this. "Wrecked" was more about
> destroying the show, for me. I could have lived without ever seeing
> Willow (metaphorically) suck dick for crack, thank you very much. Add
> in the driving while high, the car crash, and Willow's desperate,
> babbled apologies....
>
> This isn't an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it's a damned
> after-school special.
Yeah, this peice of crap makes Season 4 look utterly sublime.
> "Strawberry" is a slang term for a crack whore, in case you (or anyone
> else) didn't know, btw. Yeah, this "metaphor" had all the subtlety of a
> sledgehammer to the face.
I think you're insulting the sledgehammer there...
Arbitrar Of Quality
> This episode long ranked close to, if not at, the bottom of the series
> for me. I never had any use for Spuffy, but the notion of Willow as
> junkie induced nausea. Until someone pointed out a simple and yet
> important fact: Just because the characters think she has an addiction
> to magic doesn't make it so.
>
> Clearly, whatever it is she is getting from Rack has addictive
> properties, but outside of that, when has it ever appeared that Willow
> suffered withdrawal symptoms if she stopped using magic? The worries
> that Giles and Tara expressed were about the amount of power she
> possessed and the uses Willow was putting that power too.
>
> Oh, there is no denying Willow is in trouble, but fortunately,
> "addiction" is not the problem. Well, not to magic anyway.
That's an interesting way of thinking about it. And that raises an
interesting point for me, which I'll present as a rhetorical question:
what does it say about her that when people push away from her because
they're afraid she's out of control, trying to remake the world to her
liking, she doesn't get it... but then the idea that she's losing
control is what makes her decide she has a problem?
-AOQ
Mark Jones
> On 10 Aug 2006 21:43:31 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> > One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
> >
> > AOQ rating: Good
>
> Wow! I admit I was half expecting you to like this one given how many
> times your reviews ratings are so far from my own. I'm still amazed.
> Wrecked is one of the worst episodes of the whole series bar none. It
> totally destroyed the character of Willow for many people.
Amen and amen.
> If you liked this then you should be one of the season 6 lovers for sure.
> It sucked beyond the telling of it. Suddenly magic is like crack or
> heroin complete with Willow selling her body to Rack (She smells like
> strawberries) andsuffering from the DT's. Ugghhhh
<shudder> Don't remind me.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155271411.5...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Who's J.D. Peralta?
So...
AOQ rating: Good
Is it just me, or are you zipping along real fast for the last few of days?
We're still discussing Tabula Rasa. :-)
--
==Harmony Watcher==
burt...@hotmail.com
> This episode long ranked close to, if not at, the bottom of the series
> for me. I never had any use for Spuffy, but the notion of Willow as
> junkie induced nausea. Until someone pointed out a simple and yet
> important fact: Just because the characters think she has an addiction
> to magic doesn't make it so.
Gur ceboyrz jvgu guvf vqrn vf gung va "Nf Lbh Jrer," Fnz zragvbaf gung
ure grnz unq gjb funznaf jbexvat sbe gurz jub nyfb tbg nqqvpgrq gb
zntvp. Guvf gryyf hf gung vg'f abg whfg Enpx'f zntvp gung'f nqqvpgvir,
naq vg'f abg n pnfr bs Jvyybj oryvrivat fbzrguvat gung vfa'g gehr. Gur
fubj jnf cerfragvat zntvp nf fbzrguvat crbcyr jub hfrq vg pbhyq trg
nqqvpgrq gb. Vg jnf na hggreyl fghcvq cybgyvar, ohg vg'f jung gurl jrer
crqqyvat sebz "Jerpxrq" hc hagvy gur raq bs frnfba 6.
Ian Galbraith
[snip]
> "And ISTM that the Demonic Crack house isn't even all that great a
> metaphor for Willow's addiction. Her bag has never been 'freedom' or
> 'letting go.' It's always been about *control*. When Tara started to
> turn away, her reaction wasn't, 'It's all my fault; I should cast a
> spell that makes me more open and loving so Tara likes me better.' It
> was, 'There's something wrong with *her*; I should cast a spell to force
> her into the persona that pleases *me*.'
> "The Willow who started to emerge towards the end of last season, who
> ran after Glory with a bag of knives, who warned Giles not to piss her
> off, whose darkest nightmare is that she's still a terrified little girl
> with no control over any aspect of her life, should *not* have been
> pleased by Mr. Warlock's little spell. Floating helplessly through
> alternate dimensions while some creep sucks metaphysical strawberries
> out of her? That's a *passive* fantasy, a fantasy of surrender, and I
> don't buy that Willow would be anything but appalled by it."
I can understand that and even agree with it to a certain extent.
> "'Wrecked' was a calculated cop-out designed to tank that central
> component of Willow's arc. Suddenly Willow doesn't feel compelled to
> cast spells that give her control over her environment and her loved
> ones; she feels the need to cast *any* spell -- even spells that leave
> her *powerless* -- simply because casting spells gets her off. Suddenly
> she doesn't need help because she's using magick to bring everyone
> around to her point of view; she needs help because she's losing control
> and crashing cars and nearly getting her best friend's sister killed
> like some damn fool crack whore.
> "It's not an elaboration on what came before; it's a bait-and-switch.
> Magick is suddenly endowed with an altogether new and unhinted-at
> property, physical addiction,
No what Rack gave her lead to that. Surely its possible to conceive of
Rack imbuing what he gives Willow an addictive component.
> which is so obviously a Bad Thing and
> leads to such unambiguously terrible and skanky results, that Willow
> cannot help but turn over a new leaf. Yet, in doing so, she doesn't have
> to address any of the subtler problems with her magick use. Even if she
> hasn't come to terms with the fact that mindfucking her friends is
> wrong... she's not going to risk using that bad awful magick, because,
> hey, it's addictive and that's so terrible and skanky."
<ROT13 because it verges on discussions of future episodes>
V'ir fnvq vg orsber naq V'yy fnl vg ntnva, gungf gur cbvag vg'f abg na
nsgre fpubby fcrpvny orpnhfr Jvyybj naq gur bguref jrer jebat va jung ure
ceboyrzf jrer. Vgf jnf n qryvorengr onvg naq fjvgpu ol gur jevgref gung
yrq Jvyybj gb zvfhaqrefgnaq ure erny ceboyrzf.
--
You can't stop the signal
Ian Galbraith
[snip]
> This isn't an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it's a damned
> after-school special.
I was wondering how long it would take for that stupid phrase to surface.
And no it isn't.
[snip]
Ian Galbraith
> On 10 Aug 2006 21:43:31 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> wrote:
>>One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>>AOQ rating: Good
> Wow! I admit I was half expecting you to like this one given how many times
> your reviews ratings are so far from my own. I'm still amazed. Wrecked is
> one of the worst episodes of the whole series bar none. It totally
> destroyed the character of Willow for many people.
> If you liked this then you should be one of the season 6 lovers for sure. It
> sucked beyond the telling of it. Suddenly magic is like crack or heroin
> complete with Willow selling her body to Rack (She smells like strawberries)
> andsuffering from the DT's. Ugghhhh
Like I've always said not magic in general only what Rack did to her.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155276364....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Don Sample wrote:
>
> > This episode is one that many people felt went way overboard with the
> > metaphor. Magic is like drugs. Magic is bad, mkay. We get to see
> > Willow all strung out and having withdrawal symptoms after her magic
> > binges.
>
> See, I don't think "magic is bad, mmkay," is the message here. There's
> more story here than just the surface metaphor. That's certainly part
> of the show; obviously the harder stuff is more likely to consume the
> witch. People have been complaining that magic is getting too easy,
> too powerful. Here's the price.
>
> But spells aren't purely a bad thing. We've seen shy, lovable Willow
> develop her magical powers over the last four years or so, and it
> hasn't been ominous, it's been exhilarating. It's cute when she';s
> floating pencils and making fog,
>
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Apteryx
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
The writers are toying with us here. First there is the shark (even if
they couldn't get Buffy to jump over it) and now they call this episode
"Wrecked". And they already gave us the appropriate catch-phrase the
last time they replaced Willow with a Doppleganger - Bored Now.
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Weak for me. Way weak. It is an important development for Willow, so
you can't skip it ... but it would be nice. It starts going wrong by
choosing to define Willow's problem as addiction, when in fact when she
cast her Forget spell on Tara, it wasn't because she needed to cast
some spell or other to satisfy her addiction, and that was the only one
which came to mind. But even having taken that wrong direction, it
compounds it by being so hamfisted about the way it portrays addiction.
Why would they think an audience drawn to a comic/action/horror series
would want to watch an overwrought drama about the problems of magic
addiction? And why would they center this on an actress chosen for her
comic ability and a face made for reaction shots?
And there's no jokes (if you don't count Dawn's "And now there's
cartoons" or Amy's "No, that's fair - I was a rat").
The Body was an episode that was completely out of character with the
series hitherto (and there were no jokes), but that was OK, because
they did it so well. Not something you could claim about Wrecked.
It's my 135th favourite BtVS episode, 21st best in season 6
Apteryx
(Harmony) Watcher
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-EB76CE...@news.giganews.com...
dusts a few vamps, it's only fair that Willow should get all fidgety until
she casts a few spells. It's all about the release, whatever it is. But, of
course, the addiction in Willow's case is now out of control.
> If they wanted to do a magic addiction comparison, I think it would have
> been much better if they'd likened it to an addiction to gambling.
>
The addiction to gambling can be just as deadly and devastating when one
gambles away one's shirt, body, family and soul.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Ian Galbraith
> Kermit wrote:
>> This episode long ranked close to, if not at, the bottom of the series
>> for me. I never had any use for Spuffy, but the notion of Willow as
>> junkie induced nausea. Until someone pointed out a simple and yet
>> important fact: Just because the characters think she has an addiction
>> to magic doesn't make it so.
>
> Gur ceboyrz jvgu guvf vqrn vf gung va "Nf Lbh Jrer," Fnz zragvbaf gung
> ure grnz unq gjb funznaf jbexvat sbe gurz jub nyfb tbg nqqvpgrq gb
> zntvp. Guvf gryyf hf gung vg'f abg whfg Enpx'f zntvp gung'f nqqvpgvir,
Ubj qb lbh xabj gurl qvqa'g trg gur fnzr fghss?
> naq vg'f abg n pnfr bs Jvyybj oryvrivat fbzrguvat gung vfa'g gehr. Gur
> fubj jnf cerfragvat zntvp nf fbzrguvat crbcyr jub hfrq vg pbhyq trg
> nqqvpgrq gb. Vg jnf na hggreyl fghcvq cybgyvar, ohg vg'f jung gurl jrer
> crqqyvat sebz "Jerpxrq" hc hagvy gur raq bs frnfba 6.
Ab gurl qvqa'g npghnyyl, rira gnxvat lbhe cbvag nf gehr Frrvat Erq
punatrq nyy bs gung.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155277057.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Michael Ikeda
news:1155276364....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Don Sample wrote:
>
>> This episode is one that many people felt went way overboard
>> with the metaphor. Magic is like drugs. Magic is bad, mkay.
>> We get to see Willow all strung out and having withdrawal
>> symptoms after her magic binges.
>
> See, I don't think "magic is bad, mmkay," is the message here.
> There's more story here than just the surface metaphor. That's
> certainly part of the show; obviously the harder stuff is more
> likely to consume the witch. People have been complaining that
> magic is getting too easy, too powerful. Here's the price.
>
I don't recall who it was, but one of the regulars on this group
remarked back when this group of episodes first aired that "Magic
isn't a metaphor for drug addiction. Drug addiction is a metaphor
for magic." (From memory so the phrasing may not be exactly
correct.)
In other words, Willow (and the other Scoobies) fit her problem into
the "drug addiction" mold because that's something that feels more
familiar and something they think they know how to deal with, but the
real picture is more complicated.
(Not that I have any problems with the idea that some forms of
Buffyverse magic can be addictive. And I tend to think that it's a
good idea for Willow right now to take a break from all magic.
Whether it will always be a good idea is a different question.)
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Stephen Tempest
>One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>
>AOQ rating: Good
You'll have gathered by now that several people around here dislike
this episode quite strongly. <g> On the other hand, I agree with you:
I enjoyed it. (Well, not sure if 'enjoy' is the right word, but it was
powerful drama.)
>My god, show, when a wild sex scene still can't get
>your plot to go anywhere new, you're in trouble. Have her accept the
>strange relationship, or redefine it into something more, or walk away
>from it for good (no, the ending here does not count), or *something
>that's not this*. Please.
Y'know, some people think that the fact thay've now had sex *has*
taken the plot somewhere new. Strange concept, I know. On the other
hand, the fact that Buffy is essentially going around in circles just
feels right for her character at the moment.
She's chasing after Spike to kiss him, then telling him it means
nothing, then following him and kissing him again, then telling him
he's disgusting and hitting him, then initiating sex with him; and now
she's rejecting him again. She's playing him like he's on a string -
not being consciously manipulative (she's not thinking that clearly),
but the effect is the same.
>Jumping ahead a little, what about her
>crying in the shower, and subsequently turning to the animated Tara
>outfit for comfort? It's one of those episodes that seems to
>engender constant speculation.
Hmph. The one time in the entire show they give us a Willow shower
scene - and it turns out to be a sad, depressing and pity-inducing
one. Not happy. <g>
>The closing scene between her and Buffy has her play it as if
>magic is an addiction, and she's not wrong, but another viewpoint
>that works maybe better for me is that of a seduction.
I'll come back to this separately.
> I'm pretty unclear - okay,
>totally unclear - on what most of those quick-flashing images are
>about, other than introducing the monster, but that's not a problem
>in a setting like this.
My guess would be that Willow' consciousness has been sent journeying
to strange other worlds - and in the Buffyverse, that translates
directly into "demon dimensions". Where she attracts the attention of
one of the denizens.
>Dawn's getting quirkier in her old age and continuing to try to
>convince us that she has a personality to go along with all that plot
>device, especially during her attempts at cooking.
Go with it. Let yourself embrace the quirkiness that is post-season 5
Dawn. :)
> I don't want to go too deeply into this
>analogy, but it's like staging a competition between parents after a
>divorce.
You must have picked up on that vibe from Tara last episode - the
'divorced parent on her weekend access visit to the child'...
>A noticable
>step in the addiction process given the way Wil's been in the past
>with regard to responsibility.
Everyone seems to think Willow has a big sense of responsibility.
(Including Giles). I've always felt that her basic
*irreseponsibility* was held in check only by her fear of the
consequences, and her fundamental unwillingness to see other people
get hurt (which isn't the same thing).
>It's
>not always this extreme, obviously, but many of us have probably been
>in a situation something like this at some point in our lives: growing
>misgivings about the person whose power you're in, since you need
>him/her for a ride home (or protection, as the case may be), and
>you're fervently hoping they'll be cooperative, and you can get out
>of there and never be out alone with them again.
Nice analogy.
>That's quite a kick from Dawn during the first demon attack.
>Where'd that come from? Genes?
The monks made her out of a Slayer, after all...
Stephen
yamsham
"Ian Galbraith" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:mdg0n37is6ce$.1jrw7mzwbqftu$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:02:55 -0500, Lord Usher wrote:
>
>> "It's not an elaboration on what came before; it's a bait-and-switch.
>> Magick is suddenly endowed with an altogether new and unhinted-at
>> property, physical addiction,
>
> No what Rack gave her lead to that. Surely its possible to conceive of
> Rack imbuing what he gives Willow an addictive component.
>
You mean like dipping a joint in PCP?
shuggie
(Harmony) Watcher wrote:
At the beginning of The Zeppo.
Stephen Tempest
>Somewhere in here, Xander drives by to briefly be the one who can
>properly summarize the sensible worries about what Willow's going
>through. The closing scene between her and Buffy has her play it as if
>magic is an addiction, and she's not wrong, but another viewpoint
>that works maybe better for me is that of a seduction.
I think it's mostly a psychological addiction - like the gambling
addiction you mentioned.
Willow started off using magic to help people. However, she realised
she enjoyed it for its own sake. It was useful, and it was fun - but
it also gave her a feeling of being special, of having something
nobody else could do. She wasn't just the sidekick any more; she could
actually save the world herself. Just like Buffy.
So being able to cast magic became a critical part of her
self-identity; the foundation of her self-esteem, which was never that
high to begin with.
Add to that her growing ability, which gradually gave her a arrogant
overconfidence in her powers. (Significant, perhaps, that Willow
isn't normally noted for lots of self-confidence; so she puts an awful
lot of emotional weight on the things she *is* sure about.)
She starts out using magic to help others; then using it to help
herself, under the pretence of helping others. (Resurrecting Buffy).
Then she drops the pretence, and uses magic purely for her own benefit
(the Forget spell'). By 'Smashed', she's using potentially harmful
magic on others not for her own benefit, but her own *amusement*. And
in 'Wrecked', she's reduced to casting spells on herself (or having
them cast on her by Rack) purely for the physical and emotional
pleasure. It's a cycle of self-destruction, begun for the best of
motives.
So is there a physical addiction as well? The idea that simply
casting magic brings a rush of physical pleasure hasn't been
*articulated* on the show before, but we saw it in Willow and Tara's
habit of casting spells on each other when normal people would be
having sex. :)
Maybe it's only certain types of spell, though - which leads to the
idea that Rack's magic is different somehow. On first viewing I didn't
pick up on the idea that he was delibarately making his magic (alone)
addictive, although it makes sense - Amy, who used to hang around
Rack's place pre-rat, is the first one to make the direct comparison
between magic and drugs. On the other hand, I did see that the spells
he's giving Willow were cast on her for pure self-indulgence, rather
than affecting the outside world. And there's no reason why, if you
can have spells called Turn Enemy into Toad and Excrete Gold Coins you
can't also have one called Cause Ecstasty on Self...
As for whether Willow would be interested in surrendering to a spell
like that, I've two things to say. First, it's an exciting new
experience for her, and Willow "just wants to learn stuff." Second,
the sense of being barely in control of powerful forces carrying her
along excites her, and has ever since her first dabbling in magic.
("I blew out all the power to our block!")
So, Willow has finally (by the end of 'Wrecked') identified her
over-reliance on magic as the root of her problems. You could argue
that it was her lack of self esteem and need for security that led her
to abuse magic in the first place; but I think she's right to an
extent. It was her over-confidence in her new ability to set things
right magically that caused her to take such liberties with other
people.
It's noteworthy that Tara herself seems to agree with this
assessment: in 'Tabula Rasa' she was naturally furious about Willow
casting the Forget spell on her, but her main concern was to get
Willow to stop relying on magic for everything; to prove that she
could go without it for a week.
Of course, whether Willow is right to make the grand gesture and
forswear all magic forever remains to be seen...
Stephen
Mike Zeares
Don Sample wrote:
>
> This episode is one that many people felt went way overboard with the
> metaphor. Magic is like drugs. Magic is bad, mkay. We get to see
> Willow all strung out and having withdrawal symptoms after her magic
> binges.
Marti Noxon herself admitted later that they hit the drug metaphor too
hard. It distracted people from what they had really intended.
Willow wasn't really addicted to magic itself, she was addicted to the
feeling it gave her. It was her way of not feeling like a useless
nerd. She basically says this to Buffy at the end of the episode. But
that all got a bit submerged under the drug imagery.
-- Mike Zeares
Mike Zeares
Apteryx wrote:
> And there's no jokes (if you don't count Dawn's "And now there's
> cartoons" or Amy's "No, that's fair - I was a rat").
On the other hand, if you approach it like I do, as ME's homage to
"Reefer Madness," the whole thing is hi-larious.
-- Mike Zeares
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> crying in the shower, and subsequently turning to the animated Tara
she prostituted herself to rack
dont you think that deserves a little regret the first time around
> outfit for comfort? It's one of those episodes that seems to
> engender constant speculation.
she wants tara back
she cant control her behavior to bring tara back
she knows it
> Dawn's getting quirkier in her old age and continuing to try to
> convince us that she has a personality to go along with all that plot
> device, especially during her attempts at cooking. "Spatulas are for
> wimps." She and Willow go out for food and movies, like she did with
if youre cooking on teflon without oil or water
its not that hard to flip food like tortillas or pancakes with your fingers
the top surface is not that hot (you put it in your mouth after all)
and without hot grease or water to get on your fingers
theres little transfer of heat in the time it takes
> That's quite a kick from Dawn during the first demon attack.
> Where'd that come from? Genes?
remember last season? they made dawn out of buffy
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Michael Ikeda
news:udnod2d0lb7vpit3p...@4ax.com:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> writes:
>
>
> So is there a physical addiction as well? The idea that simply
> casting magic brings a rush of physical pleasure hasn't been
> *articulated* on the show before, but we saw it in Willow and
> Tara's habit of casting spells on each other when normal people
> would be having sex. :)
From "The Dark Age"
Giles: I fell in with the worst crowd that would have me. We
practiced magicks. Small stuff for pleasure or gain. And Ethan and I
discovered something... bigger.
Buffy: Eyghon.
Giles: Yes. One of us would, um... (nervously pours a drink) go into
a deep sleep, and the others would, uh, summon him. It was an
extraordinary high!
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I don't recall who it was, but one of the regulars on this group
> remarked back when this group of episodes first aired that "Magic
> isn't a metaphor for drug addiction. Drug addiction is a metaphor
> for magic." (From memory so the phrasing may not be exactly
> correct.)
>
> In other words, Willow (and the other Scoobies) fit her problem into
> the "drug addiction" mold because that's something that feels more
> familiar and something they think they know how to deal with, but the
> real picture is more complicated.
You know, I had this exact discussion with the finaceee after we
watched this, and then forgot about the whole conversation. She
thought of it as an allegory about drugs (which she enjoyed), whereas I
thought of it as a uniquely Buffyverse issue that uses drug addiction
as a "familiar" comparison.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Lord Usher wrote:
> "Wrecked" is bad. Really, really bad. Bad in the worst way an episode
> can be bad -- it takes some of the most fascinating issues the series
> has ever raised, and one of the most promising storylines the series has
> ever attempted, and *ruins* them forever.
>
> "The Willow who started to emerge towards the end of last season, who
> ran after Glory with a bag of knives, who warned Giles not to piss her
> off, whose darkest nightmare is that she's still a terrified little girl
> with no control over any aspect of her life,
Which is exactly why being a witch is central to her self-identity.
It's about needing it to feel like herself; that's the motivation for
her to get seduced by it.
should *not* have been
> pleased by Mr. Warlock's little spell. Floating helplessly through
> alternate dimensions while some creep sucks metaphysical strawberries
> out of her? That's a *passive* fantasy, a fantasy of surrender, and I
> don't buy that Willow would be anything but appalled by it."
I think Stephen goes through the motivations pretty well, so I'll just
let his post stand. That being said, if you don't think this seduction
(let's back away from the addiction, since that's just one analogy) is
interesting, or that it complicates/detracts from the previous
direction of the storyline, that's an understandable POV.
> Even if she
> hasn't come to terms with the fact that mindfucking her friends is
> wrong... she's not going to risk using that bad awful magick, because,
> hey, it's addictive and that's so terrible and skanky."
I got all excited when Kermit's post lead me to think about that,
because I think that *is* the story, to an extent. (If Scythe Matters
were still posting regularly, he'd say that this isn't the story at
all, of course... I never quite was able to wrap my head around the way
he thinks, but if I had to guess, I'd say he'd be most interested in
what it says about Buffy that she identifies so closely with Willow's
situation.) Anyway, Willow's magic is completely essential to her
sense of self, and she only decides to give it up once it starts to
take her over - *not* because she's learned any lessons about abuse of
power. I'd been trying to figure out why the end of "Wrecked" didn't
feel like a real solution - it doesn't seem like it's meant to be,
which is where we seem to differ - and that's why.
-AOQ
Rowan Hawthorn
Well, let's face it: what would be the point in him running an operation
like that if he couldn't *guarantee* that his "customers" would return?
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Arbitrar Of Quality
> So is there a physical addiction as well? The idea that simply
> casting magic brings a rush of physical pleasure hasn't been
> *articulated* on the show before, but we saw it in Willow and Tara's
> habit of casting spells on each other when normal people would be
> having sex. :)
Magic has the power to make WB executives look the other way.
-AOQ
Rowan Hawthorn
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
> (or "I want you to scrape me from the wall/And go crazy, like
> you've made me")
> Writer: Marti Noxon
> Director: David Solomon
>
>
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
Heh. You're going to be very unpopular around the newsgroup now. Along
with the rest of us who think that this a)didn't suck and b)didn't just
come out of nowhere...
jil...@hotmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> You know, I had this exact discussion with the finaceee after we
> watched this, and then forgot about the whole conversation. She
> thought of it as an allegory about drugs (which she enjoyed), whereas I
> thought of it as a uniquely Buffyverse issue that uses drug addiction
> as a "familiar" comparison.
More than that. People keep going "it's about the magic!" It wasn't
about the magic. It was about her using Black Magic, Dark Magic, and
assuming that just because she wanted to do good with it, that would be
enough to cancel out it being Black.
Espen Schjønberg
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Or Bøffi, as I now will start using my own spelling. You are not the
only one being spe-cial here.
> Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
Wrong.
> Good
Totally, totally Wrong[tm].
--
Espen
EGK
Willow was already on her way before she met Rack. The bloody nose in
season 5 was a testament to it and so was Tara's worry about her use of
magic.
But instead of making it about control they used Rack to make a lame drug
analogy. Suddenly she was akin to a recreational user finally going around
the bend and becoming a literal magic whore. I can't imagine any other
possible reason for the mention of her smelling like strawberries.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
Horace LaBadie
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> I'd been trying to figure out why the end of "Wrecked" didn't
> feel like a real solution - it doesn't seem like it's meant to be,
> which is where we seem to differ - and that's why.
It didn't feel that way, because the show has completely abandoned the
episodic format for the serial format. There is no longer an episode of
BtVS at this point, merely an installment. The lack of any internal
structure to hold each installment together leaves one feeling
unsatisfied. It's just one thing after another.
HWL
vague disclaimer
Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> yamsham wrote:
> > "Ian Galbraith" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:mdg0n37is6ce$.1jrw7mzwbqftu$.dlg@40tude.net...
> >> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:02:55 -0500, Lord Usher wrote:
> >>
> >>> "It's not an elaboration on what came before; it's a bait-and-switch.
> >>> Magick is suddenly endowed with an altogether new and unhinted-at
> >>> property, physical addiction,
> >> No what Rack gave her lead to that. Surely its possible to conceive of
> >> Rack imbuing what he gives Willow an addictive component.
> >>
> >
> > You mean like dipping a joint in PCP?
> >
> >
>
> Well, let's face it: what would be the point in him running an operation
> like that if he couldn't *guarantee* that his "customers" would return?
Welcome to Drug Dealing 101.....
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Opus the Penguin
> I guess at some point in the show's life, it had to do a car crash.
Yeah, just like it needed to do an episode where Santa just might be
real or an episode where somebody feels they need to buy a gun for
protection and ends up being a danger to self and others.
That car crash was one of the biggest "you have GOT to be kidding me!"
moments in the show's 7 year history. (I hope that doesn't spoil things
by indicating that the Santa episode and the gun episode just might not
happen.)
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Opus the Penguin
> The teaser ends on the aftermath of the M”bius Twins' time
> together in "Smashed," and it looks like they finally got around
> to ditching the clothes. Stop me if you've heard this one before
> - Buffy starts talking about how she'll NEVER do anything like
> this, ever again, and Spike tries to play the "you're
> teasing/wallowing" and "I'm not playing this game anymore" cards,
> and she starts hitting him... you know, since the dialogue here is
> practically identical to that in the last three episodes, let's
> just say that I still have the same issues. My god, show, when a
> wild sex scene still can't get your plot to go anywhere new,
> you're in trouble. Have her accept the strange relationship, or
> redefine it into something more, or walk away from it for good
> (no, the ending here does not count), or *something that's not
> this*. Please.
V nterr jvgu guvf nf V'z fher n ybg bs crbcyr qb. Ohg, bu zna, gur
cnlbss ng gur raq jura Ohssl gryyf Tvyrf "V'ir orra fyrrcvat jvgu
Fcvxr" whfg erqrrzf vg nyy sbe zr. Vg jnf jbegu orvat fgehat nybat gb
trg gb gung zbzrag.
Rowan Hawthorn
Exactly. Lesson 1: Without repeat customers, you don't stay in business
very long. Lesson 2: If there's any chance your customers might not
*be* repeat customers, take steps to ensure that they *are*. (Real World
example: Drug dealers passing out free samples of their more addictive
merchandise to otherwise casual users of non-addictive items like
marijuana...)
George W Harris
<jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:
Which, really, started in "Bargaining", with the
sacrifice of the faun. That's what pushed her over, if
not over the edge, onto the slippery slope leading to
the edge.
--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
EGK
I agree. Season 5 began the extreme serialization of the show. It's
another thing that made the soap opera aspects stand out like a sore thumb.
Once More With Feeling was more of an event..
Opus the Penguin
> On 10 Aug 2006 22:42:40 -0700, burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> This isn't an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it's a
>> damned after-school special.
>
> I was wondering how long it would take for that stupid phrase to
> surface. And no it isn't.
>
> [snip]
>
>
It's not a stupid phrase at all. I'm betting it communicates pretty
exactly how this show struck Burt. You disagree with the assessment,
which is fine. But you understand the sentiment, right?
Opus the Penguin
> If they wanted to do a magic addiction comparison, I think it
> would have been much better if they'd likened it to an addiction
> to gambling.
Hmmm. So perhaps the story arc deals more with Willow liking the rush
that magic gives her and the feeling of risking more than she can
afford to lose by tackling the big spells? That would have been
interesting, sure.
burt...@hotmail.com
> On 10 Aug 2006 22:42:40 -0700, burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > This isn't an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it's a damned
> > after-school special.
>
> I was wondering how long it would take for that stupid phrase to surface.
> And no it isn't.
Yes it is. (See? Two can play this game).
Don Sample
"\(Harmony\) Watcher" <nob...@nonesuch.com> wrote:
> "Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
> news:dsample-EB76CE...@news.giganews.com...
> > If they wanted to do a magic addiction comparison, I think it would have
> > been much better if they'd likened it to an addiction to gambling.
> >
> The addiction to gambling can be just as deadly and devastating when one
> gambles away one's shirt, body, family and soul.
But gamblers don't get the DTs when they can't place a couple of bets.
Willow was looking to use magic to fix everything in her life. Even
when each spell was making things worse, she was thinking "I can fix
this with just one more spell," just like a gambler going deeper and
deeper into debt, while thinking "All I need is one big score to get
myself back on top."
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
burt...@hotmail.com
Ian Galbraith wrote:
> On 10 Aug 2006 23:50:31 -0700, burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Kermit wrote:
> >> This episode long ranked close to, if not at, the bottom of the series
> >> for me. I never had any use for Spuffy, but the notion of Willow as
> >> junkie induced nausea. Until someone pointed out a simple and yet
> >> important fact: Just because the characters think she has an addiction
> >> to magic doesn't make it so.
> >
> > Gur ceboyrz jvgu guvf vqrn vf gung va "Nf Lbh Jrer," Fnz zragvbaf gung
> > ure grnz unq gjb funznaf jbexvat sbe gurz jub nyfb tbg nqqvpgrq gb
> > zntvp. Guvf gryyf hf gung vg'f abg whfg Enpx'f zntvp gung'f nqqvpgvir,
>
> Ubj qb lbh xabj gurl qvqa'g trg gur fnzr fghss?
Orpnhfr gur fubj qvqa'g fnl gurl qvq. Naq orpnhfr gurl jrer abjurer
arne Fhaalqnyr. Naq orpnhfr Fnz jnfa'g gnyxvat nobhg gurz *trggvat*
zntvp, fur jnf gnyxvat nobhg gurz *hfvat* zntvp.
V'z fbeel vs lbh qba'g yvxr vg, ohg gur fubj cerfragrq zntvp va trareny
nf na nqqvpgvir fhofgnapr.
> > naq vg'f abg n pnfr bs Jvyybj oryvrivat fbzrguvat gung vfa'g gehr. Gur
> > fubj jnf cerfragvat zntvp nf fbzrguvat crbcyr jub hfrq vg pbhyq trg
> > nqqvpgrq gb. Vg jnf na hggreyl fghcvq cybgyvar, ohg vg'f jung gurl jrer
> > crqqyvat sebz "Jerpxrq" hc hagvy gur raq bs frnfba 6.
>
> Ab gurl qvqa'g npghnyyl,
Lrf, gurl qvq, npghnyyl. Frr nobir.
> rira gnxvat lbhe cbvag nf gehr Frrvat Erq
> punatrq nyy bs gung.
Whfg orpnhfr gurl qebccrq gur vqrn yngre qbrfa'g zrna gung gur vqrn bs
zntvp nf penpx jnfa'g bar bs gur fghcvqrfg guvatf rire gb nccrne ba gur
fubj.
EGK
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ian Galbraith (m...@privacy.net) wrote:
>
>> On 10 Aug 2006 22:42:40 -0700, burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> This isn't an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it's a
>>> damned after-school special.
>>
>> I was wondering how long it would take for that stupid phrase to
>> surface. And no it isn't.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>
>It's not a stupid phrase at all. I'm betting it communicates pretty
>exactly how this show struck Burt. You disagree with the assessment,
>which is fine. But you understand the sentiment, right?
I agree with Burt and I think many people do. "After School Special" is
more about the lack of subtlety in the metaphors. Basically hitting us over
the head with it. If BTVS had always been so ham handed as that, I don't
think it would have been nearly as popular. Heck, the obvious steroid
metaphors in Go Fish had nothing on this one for lack of subtlety.
Don Sample
Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality (tsm...@wildmail.com) wrote:
>
> > I guess at some point in the show's life, it had to do a car crash.
>
> Yeah, just like it needed to do an episode where Santa just might be
> real or an episode where somebody feels they need to buy a gun for
> protection and ends up being a danger to self and others.
Santa is real in the Buffyverse:
łNo,˛ says Anya. łI mean, itąs a myth that itąs a myth. There
is a Santa Claus.˛ Everyone looks at her in surprise. łMm-hmm.
Been around since, like, the 1500s. But he wasnąt always called
Santa. But with, you know, Christmas night, flying reindeer,
coming down the chimneyŠ all true.˛
łAll true?˛ asks Dawn.
łWell, he doesnąt traditionally bring presents so much as,
you know, disemboweled children. But otherwiseŠ˛
łThe reindeer part was nice,˛ says Tara.
(Even before we learned that, I wanted them to do a Christmas episode
where Buffy slew the Santa demon.)
burt...@hotmail.com
> Lord Usher wrote:
>
> should *not* have been
> > pleased by Mr. Warlock's little spell. Floating helplessly through
> > alternate dimensions while some creep sucks metaphysical strawberries
> > out of her? That's a *passive* fantasy, a fantasy of surrender, and I
> > don't buy that Willow would be anything but appalled by it."
>
> I think Stephen goes through the motivations pretty well, so I'll just
> let his post stand. That being said, if you don't think this seduction
> (let's back away from the addiction, since that's just one analogy)
Oh, come on. Just one analogy? The addiction analogy is beaten into our
heads over and over again with, as I said, all the subtlety of a
sledgehammer. We have Willow trembling in withdrawl in the shower. We
have Amy coming by the house to steal Willow's "herbs" and throwing up
in their bathroom. We have a magic den that looks like a crack house
and a magic "dealer" named *Rack.* We have Willow whoring herself out
(complete with slang used specifically to refer to crack whores) for
Rack's "special brand" of magic. We have Willow up on the ceiling (Hey
look! She's high! Ha ha ha!) tripping her brains out.
And we have the car crash, Dawn getting hurt, and Willow's desperate,
blubbering apologies. How many after-school specials about drugs do you
figure had a scene just like that one?
Addiction isn't "just one analogy" here - it's the *only* analogy. And
Joss and Marti went to great lengths to make it that way.
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
>(or "I want you to scrape me from the wall/And go crazy, like
>you've made me")
>Writer: Marti Noxon
>Director: David Solomon
Well, I'm late to the game here, so I'm just going to make a few random
comments.
This is the episode for which the term 'anvilicious' was coined.
The phrase 'crack-magic Willow' also comes from this episode
>I guess at some point in the show's life, it had to do a car crash.
>In Willow's defense maybe she was, like me, impaired from properly
>absorbing the events because she was blinded by the glaring light
>reflecting from Anya's hair.
We've already had a car crash. Spike crashed Giles' Citroen in Doomed.
>"Wrecked" is primarily a Willow show for me. An early scene
>that's quietly interesting is her reaction to being drained of magic;
>seemingly too tired to think or worry too hard about it, she stands up
>and closes the window herself and lies back down... but her eyes stay
>open. How concerned is she about whether her powers will come back,
>and what's she planning next? Jumping ahead a little, what about her
>crying in the shower, and subsequently turning to the animated Tara
>outfit for comfort? It's one of those episodes that seems to
>engender constant speculation.
The animated Tara dress was pretty straightforward, directly echoing Dawn
snuggling up to the Buffybot for comfort back in Bargaining.
>Dawn's getting quirkier in her old age and continuing to try to
>convince us that she has a personality to go along with all that plot
>device, especially during her attempts at cooking. "Spatulas are for
>wimps." She and Willow go out for food and movies, like she did with
>Tara the night before. I don't want to go too deeply into this
>analogy,
Why not, the show does?
I think it's pretty darned clear that Willow/Tara/Dawn relationship is
played as a metaphor for separated parents (it's nice that something on the
show is still done as a less than sledgehammery metaphor).
>That's quite a kick from Dawn during the first demon attack.
>Where'd that come from? Genes?
As we saw in All the Way, and now here, Dawn is not incompetent in a fight,
and, most importantly, thinks on her feet (heck, throw in her interactions
with Glory and Ben too)
>I was expecting one of
>those great bits of cold fury from Buffy, but it seems like she can't
>quite muster it, since she's seeing herself, and that's not what
>the situation calls for.
The cold fury was at the site, although not afterward.
"I mean it, stay away from her!"
>One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>
>AOQ rating: Good
As others have said, if you rated this ep as 'Good', you're likely to like
this season as a whole. I rate episdoes on the Global Episode Opinion
Survey (GEOS), and my rating for this (on a 0.0 to 10.0 scale) was 5.8, the
lowest in season 6 and 6th lowest for the 144 episodes. If you're curious,
the five lower rated (by me) eps are Never Kill A Boy On the First Date and
Inca Mummy Girl (both 5.5), The Wish (5.0), Bad Eggs (4.2), and Ted (4.0).
--
"Timothy Dalton should get an Oscar and
beat Sean Connery over the head with it!"
-The Other Guy (you know, Tucker's brother)
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>Stephen Tempest wrote:
Seasons 6 and 7 were on UPN, and Joss has commented on the huge decrease in
network Standards and Practices memos (he said he only got one from UPN in
the two seasons).
EGK
<wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>On 11 Aug 2006 06:07:15 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Stephen Tempest wrote:
>>
>>> So is there a physical addiction as well? The idea that simply
>>> casting magic brings a rush of physical pleasure hasn't been
>>> *articulated* on the show before, but we saw it in Willow and Tara's
>>> habit of casting spells on each other when normal people would be
>>> having sex. :)
>>
>>Magic has the power to make WB executives look the other way.
>
>Seasons 6 and 7 were on UPN, and Joss has commented on the huge decrease in
>network Standards and Practices memos (he said he only got one from UPN in
>the two seasons).
Given how they turned out, I think seasons 6-7 are a perfect example of what
can happen when the inmates run the asylum. Not that I was offended by it,
but it was too often just plain bad. BTVS also supposedly had a larger
budget in those seasons but you'd never know it. The show looked cheap to
me in the last two years.
Opus the Penguin
It would have been fun to see her go up against the Easter Bunny as
well. Anya's reaction alone would have been worth it.
MBangel10 (Melissa)
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
> (or "I want you to scrape me from the wall/And go crazy, like
> you've made me")
> Writer: Marti Noxon
> Director: David Solomon
>
> absorbing the events because she was blinded by the glaring light
> reflecting from Anya's hair.
>
> disorienting for the chicks who were left behind. The show is doing a
> good job stringing the viewer along wondering where Tara's going to
> end up fitting into the rest of S6; characters who break up don't
> inevitably get back together in this show, but we'll see.
>
> The teaser ends on the aftermath of the Möbius Twins' time together
> in "Smashed," and it looks like they finally got around to ditching
> the clothes. Stop me if you've heard this one before - Buffy
> starts talking about how she'll NEVER do anything like this, ever
> again, and Spike tries to play the "you're teasing/wallowing" and
> "I'm not playing this game anymore" cards, and she starts hitting
> him... you know, since the dialogue here is practically identical to
> that in the last three episodes, let's just say that I still have the
> same issues. My god, show, when a wild sex scene still can't get
> your plot to go anywhere new, you're in trouble. Have her accept the
> strange relationship, or redefine it into something more, or walk away
> from it for good (no, the ending here does not count), or *something
> that's not this*. Please.
Everyone here is discussing the Willow on crack segments, so I'm going
to leave that one alone. The metaphor there is pretty straight forward,
we've been watching Willow wade in the pool of magic for a while, and
now she dives into the deep, dark end. It's not unexpected since the
show has been leading us here for years. It works, albeit a little too
heavy with the drug = magic analogy but it still seems fitting.
Now onto the really good part of the episode...
I loved everything about the morning after conversation. Buffy's
disdain with herself for going through with it, Spike's smug
satisfaction in the aftermath. She *hates* him but those two show how
thin that line is between love/hate. Did you really expect Buffy to
wake up happy with herself? I'm not sure what you were expecting to
happen with Buffy and Spike but from your review, this isn't it.
Whatever it is that Buffy's feeling right now (anger, disgust, lust,
denial...) the big thing to note is that at least she's feeling
SOMETHING. It's a big step forward from where she was in OMWF. She
doesn't want to want Spike at all, and yet she can't stop herself
because the only time she feels anything is when she is with him. So,
she argues that it will never happen again, he calls her on it again
and again. She uses him to lash out at because he's the mirror that she
doesn't want to look into. Every bit of darkness that's buried inside
her is staring back when she looks at him, it lures her in and she
hates herself for it.
No, this isn't a healthy relationship but at least there is a bit of
fire back in Buffy because of it.
Favorite quote: "Uhhh, you're bent" "Yeah, and it made you scream,
didn't it?" heh
Also, the one-two panty/punch combo. I always chuckle at that.
<snip>
> One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
I'm going to go with Decent on this one. For the opposite reasons: The
Willow story was okay but they could have done it a bit better. The
Spike/Buffy interactions is what made this one worth a second viewing.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
> [Season Six so far:
> 1) "Bargaining" - Decent
> 2) "After Life" - Good
> 3) "Flooded" - Decent
> 4) "Life Serial" - Good
> 5) "All The Way" - Good
> 6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
> 7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good
> 8) "Smashed" - Decent
> 9) "Wrecked" - Good]
lili...@gmail.com
> again are a few redeeming bits in their interactions in "Wrecked,"
> mostly coming when she recruits him to look for Dawn. This brings
> back an important element of what brought the two together in the first
> place, and shows that a few important things haven't changed: despite
> them driving each other nuts and the fact that Spike still wants to be
> evil, his devotion means that she trusts and values him as an ally when
> Dawn's in trouble. And others, but mostly Dawn. To that end,
> Spike's last appearance puts him back in his late-S5 role as a member
> of Buffy's team. That's one of the reasons why even barring all
> their other issues, they won't be totally apart.
>
> "Wrecked" is primarily a Willow show for me. An early scene
> that's quietly interesting is her reaction to being drained of magic;
> seemingly too tired to think or worry too hard about it, she stands up
> and closes the window herself and lies back down... but her eyes stay
> open. How concerned is she about whether her powers will come back,
> and what's she planning next? Jumping ahead a little, what about her
> crying in the shower, and subsequently turning to the animated Tara
> outfit for comfort? It's one of those episodes that seems to
> engender constant speculation.
>
> properly summarize the sensible worries about what Willow's going
> through. The closing scene between her and Buffy has her play it as if
> magic is an addiction, and she's not wrong, but another viewpoint
> that works maybe better for me is that of a seduction. (I swear that I
> wrote the preceding sentence before reading OBS's mention of this in
> the TR thread.) That came up a little in the previous episode, and
> with the way Buffy continues to draw mental parallels to what they're
> going through. Willow keeps going back because it's all just so
> exciting to her as people welcome her to the next level... "Is it
> dangerous?" "Would that stop you?"
>
> Here Amy's bad influence leads to Platform Nine-And-Three-Quarters,
> and subsequently to Rack, a strange guy who runs a strange operation.
> He curtly dismisses Rat Girl as out of her league, but takes an
> interest in Willow, which leads to some of the show's stranger
> sequences. The hovering on the ceiling over the blare of techno is yet
> another way of portraying the Mystic Arts that BTVS hasn't used
> before, and both the "tasting" and the aforementioned sequence have
> a strong sexual edge; I like this whole part pretty well, but my main
> adjective would still be "strange." I'm pretty unclear - okay,
> totally unclear - on what most of those quick-flashing images are
> about, other than introducing the monster, but that's not a problem
> in a setting like this. I notice that Hannigan's makeup seems
> designed to make her look witchier than usual during the first Rack
> scene. And while we're noticing her, she's worn very flattering
> shirts lately, and the later sequences seem like they're finding ways
> to show her wearing nothing. Can't complain there, unless it gets
> too blatant; yet another parallel with the Spike story, huh?
>
> Dawn's getting quirkier in her old age and continuing to try to
> convince us that she has a personality to go along with all that plot
> device, especially during her attempts at cooking. "Spatulas are for
> wimps." She and Willow go out for food and movies, like she did with
> Tara the night before. I don't want to go too deeply into this
> divorce. Or just trying to forge an independent relationship with each
> one. At first it seems like she might be an anchor for the Red Witch,
> and have a good night, but then she ends up getting left behind while
> the other loses track of time during another, cheesier magic sequence
> ("these are the voyages of the starship Willow..."). A noticable
> step in the addiction process given the way Wil's been in the past
> with regard to responsibility.
>
> So the aftermath leading up to the big action stuff is very good, with
> Dawn realizing how uncomfortable she is with what she's gotten
> herself into, while her host is getting more pushily friendly. It's
> not always this extreme, obviously, but many of us have probably been
> in a situation something like this at some point in our lives: growing
> misgivings about the person whose power you're in, since you need
> him/her for a ride home (or protection, as the case may be), and
> you're fervently hoping they'll be cooperative, and you can get out
> of there and never be out alone with them again. That resonated.
> Willow laughing hysterically while magically swerving the car around is
> just the extension of that, and makes for a memorable setpiece.
>
> That's quite a kick from Dawn during the first demon attack.
> Where'd that come from? Genes?
>
> require saying or sobbing the same word over and over. I can't
> imagine any way to pull that off that doesn't seem at least somewhat
> forced. Hell, it even seemed a bit weird from Eliza Dushku in FxF, and
> that's my gold standard for scenes involving Bufyverse characters
> collapsing in tears. And in most such circumstances the character is
> supposed to sound unpleasantly pathetic, so it's hard to separate the
> acting from the situation. Sadly, Hannigan continues her streak of not
> working very well for me in moments like this. I was expecting one of
> those great bits of cold fury from Buffy, but it seems like she can't
> quite muster it, since she's seeing herself, and that's not what
> seems to have had an effect on Willow, gotten through to her in some
> way on a level that Tara leaving didn't. Interesting. She still
> goes with the big dramatic gestures, here foreswearing magic entirely,
> despite seeming uncertain whether she can. Anyway, the last image
> shows the two girls trying to ward off their temptations, and now
> first-run viewers get a month off to speculate on if and how long this
> might last...
>
> Who's J.D. Peralta?
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>
>
> [Season Six so far:
> 1) "Bargaining" - Decent
> 2) "After Life" - Good
> 3) "Flooded" - Decent
> 4) "Life Serial" - Good
> 5) "All The Way" - Good
> 6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
> 7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good
> 8) "Smashed" - Decent
> 9) "Wrecked" - Good]
I guess I'm the reverse of you, the Spike/Buffy scenes in this ep are
strong, the Willow scenes just make me want to slap the hell out of her
and get her off the show. Unfortunately since Willow is Joss' fave Mary
Sue, that's never going to happen.
Lore
EGK
wrote:
>I'm going to go with Decent on this one. For the opposite reasons: The
>Willow story was okay but they could have done it a bit better. The
>Spike/Buffy interactions is what made this one worth a second viewing.
I'd guess the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why many of
us hated season 6. It became a line in the sand so to speak. Some like
you, loved it, others like me felt they had turned BTVS into the FriendsTV
show joke. "Buffy The Vampire Layer".
I would never tell you that you're wrong for liking it. Different strokes
and all that. I always liked the character of Spike before he became a
regular. I just never liked seeing it turned in to The Spuffy show. In
that case I have to agree with those who often sarcastically claim those who
hated it just didn't like the direction the writers took the show in. Duhh.
No kidding?
Paul Hyett
>
>This isn't an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it's a damned
>after-school special.
Being from England, I've always wondered what the phrase 'after school
special' means?
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
Paul Hyett
>On 10 Aug 2006 22:42:40 -0700, burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>else) didn't know, btw. Yeah, this "metaphor" had all the subtlety of a
>>sledgehammer to the face.
>
>That's why I mentioned the reference. Rack said she smelled like
>strawberries. I'm not sure but at the time this originally aired I was one
>of the only people who seemed to get that and was surprised.
This thread is the first time *I've* ever heard it.
stev...@earthlink.net
<snip>
> One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
Very much an episode fans either love or hate. FWIW, I don't
necessarily dislike an occasional episode that is a little more broad
or over-the-top - it's good for the soul and quite entertaining, too.
I liked it!
MBangel10 (Melissa)
"After-School Specials" used to be TV movies (usually based in Jr. High
or High School settings) that were shown on TV around 4:00pm (or right
after school) and they dealt with all sorts of teen issues like
pregnancy, drugs, bullies, etc... They were hugely popular in the late
70's and 80's.
burt...@hotmail.com
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> to leave that one alone. The metaphor there is pretty straight forward,
> we've been watching Willow wade in the pool of magic for a while, and
> now she dives into the deep, dark end. It's not unexpected since the
> show has been leading us here for years.
Really? The show's been leading us here for years? It's been leading us
to a place where magic is physically addictive and handed out by skeezy
guys in squalid little dens in exchange for (metaphorical) sex? I know
you said that you thought the analogy was a little too heavy, but I
just don't see any way that the show was ever leading us here. I guess
we really were watching different shows all this time....
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
> (or "I want you to scrape me from the wall/And go crazy, like
> you've made me")
> Writer: Marti Noxon
> Director: David Solomon
(and far more thoughtfully and articulately than I ever would have
managed). Briefly, I agree with those who dislike the whole crack magic
thing. A magic-addiction plotline could have had potential, but the *way*
they did it was way too unsubtle and war-on-drugsy for me.
On the other hand, nothing in this episode came close to "ruining"
Willow's character for me. They would have to reveal that she's been a
secret child molestor since season one before *that* would happen.
Aside from the crack thing, not much in Wrecked struck me as especially
good or bad. It did further develop the Spuffy plotline, insofar as it
showed us that the end of Smashed didn't change either characters'
feelings. That's important information, though it could have been
presented a little more quickly. In general, I think the dialog and
visuals for most scenes were good. There was much less humor than usual,
and what there was (Anya's wedding magazines, Dawn's PB&B quesadillas)
only got a smile from me, not an actual laugh. I'm not sure if that's
better or worse than having a lot of jokes that fall flat.
I liked Amy's phrase "I'm gonna boot" for "I'm about to vomit." Is this
just Whedonspeak, or do people say that in real life?
> Here Amy's bad influence leads to Platform Nine-And-Three-Quarters,
> and subsequently to Rack, a strange guy who runs a strange operation.
> He curtly dismisses Rat Girl as out of her league, but takes an
> interest in Willow, which leads to some of the show's stranger
> sequences. The hovering on the ceiling over the blare of techno
"Black Cat Bone" by Laika, not to be confused with Laika and the
Cosmonauts.
> is yet
> another way of portraying the Mystic Arts that BTVS hasn't used
> before, and both the "tasting" and the aforementioned sequence have
> a strong sexual edge; I like this whole part pretty well, but my main
> adjective would still be "strange."
As others have already said, one of the most striking things about this
scene is that Willow is now simply getting high on the magic, rather than
using it to *do* anything. Not sure exactly what they're trying to say
with that, but it seems noteworthy. Although I don't care for the crack
magic thing in general, I actually do enjoy Willow's trip. (The second
one, not so much.)
> AOQ rating: Good
Not in my book. I often list Beer Bad as the lowest quality episode, but
Wrecked as the least enjoyable one. It's a slightly dull but competent
telling of a story that I just don't like. Call Wrecked a low Decent.
But I would enjoy watching Beer Bad more, Weak though it is.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Stephen Tempest
>:More than that. People keep going "it's about the magic!" It wasn't
>:about the magic. It was about her using Black Magic, Dark Magic, and
>:assuming that just because she wanted to do good with it, that would be
>:enough to cancel out it being Black.
>
> Which, really, started in "Bargaining", with the
>sacrifice of the faun. That's what pushed her over, if
>not over the edge, onto the slippery slope leading to
>the edge.
Or even earlier in 'Tough Love', where she gets out the book of
Darkest Magic from the Magic Box and chops it open with an axe...
Stephen
Stephen Tempest
>It didn't feel that way, because the show has completely abandoned the
>episodic format for the serial format. There is no longer an episode of
>BtVS at this point, merely an installment.
All The Way wasn't a stand-alone episode?
"Dawn goes off with her teenage friends and gets into trouble.
Meanwhile, arc-related plot stuff goes on"
Once More with Feeling wasn't a stand-alone episode?
"A demon arrives in town and forces everyone to start singing and
dancing. Meanwhile, arc-related plot stuff goes on"
Tabula Rasa wasn't a stand-alone episode?
"Everyone loses their memory, and hilarity ensues. Meanwhile,
arc-related plot stuff goes on"
I could continue...
It's true that 'Smashed' and 'Wrecked' feel more like two installments
in a continuing story: but just look at the episode titles. Get the
impression that they were *meant* to be taken together?
So while I'm happy to concede that the show is acquiring more elements
of a serial, and the ongoing arc is gaining more importance, saying
that "the show has completely abandoned the episodic format" is a
gross exaggeration.
Stephen
EGK
wrote:
http://parentingteens.about.com/cs/cocainecrack/l/blsldiccrack.htm
drug slang.
Strawberry: female who trades sex for crack or money to buy crack
I would guess it was something that went right over the head of a large
segment of the audience but was surprised how few posting in here caught it
at the time. One of the few times where American street slang got used and
you in the UK were left out. :) Usually they tried variations of slang
from your side of the pond.
Stephen Tempest
>I think it's pretty darned clear that Willow/Tara/Dawn relationship is
>played as a metaphor for separated parents (it's nice that something on the
>show is still done as a less than sledgehammery metaphor).
It's odd, because for me the W/T/D divorce metaphor was just as
obvious, if not more so, than the Willow/magic/drugs one. So why does
it seem less sledgehammery? Why doesn't it provoke howls of outrage?
Or more to the point, what's so uniquely bad about the magic=drugs
analogy that it *does* raise such a storm of opposition - compared to
all the other metaphors the show has given us? I don't get it. Maybe
because as a child I missed out on all these 'after-school specials'
the Americans here keep going on about? Or because suddenly telling
us that magic has a downside ruined people's escapist fantasies? It
puzzles me.
Stephen
EGK
I'm not sure but I think his use of "completely abandoned" was hyperbole but
maybe it did seem like that to him. I think the show did became much more
serialized in season 5 onward than it was before.
beloved
EGK wrote:
>
> I would never tell you that you're wrong for liking it. Different strokes
> and all that. I always liked the character of Spike before he became a
> regular. I just never liked seeing it turned in to The Spuffy show. In
> that case I have to agree with those who often sarcastically claim those who
> hated it just didn't like the direction the writers took the show in. Duhh.
> No kidding?
Jryy, vs vg'f nal pbafbyngvba (naq V xabj vg ernyyl vfa'g) ol gur raq
bs Natry gur Frevrf, sebz rirelguvat V pna tngure, Wbff naq Zhgnag
Rarzl unq ynvq jnfgr gb zvyyvbaf bs snaf nebhaq gur jbeyq. Gurl
pehfurq ubcrf naq oebxr urnegf, fb gb fcrnx. Znal snaf jrer yrsg
qvfyvxvat punenpgref gurl bapr ybirq. Fuvcf bs rirel synibe jrer
fgbzcrq orarngu gur obbgurryf bs ZR. (Nf fbzrbar jub jnf ybbxvat
sbejneq gb n Ohssl & Fcvxr eryngvbafuvc, V pregnvayl qvfyvxrq gur
qverpgvba gur jevgref gbbx gur fubj va F6 & F7, nf qvq znal, znal bgure
O/F snaf.) N fubj(f) gung jnf bapr ybirq, creuncf jnf ab ybatre.
Naq lrg, rira nsgre nyy guvf gvzr naq qrfcvgr nyy gur bhgentrq tevcvat,
n snaqbz fgvyy rkvfgf naq urer jr ner, fgvyy gnyxvat nobhg gur fubj
fb....
Rowan Hawthorn
There's a lot of hyperbole in discussions of Seasons 6 & 7.
Unfortunately, most of it appears intended to be taken as matters of
objective fact.
> maybe it did seem like that to him. I think the show did became much more
> serialized in season 5 onward than it was before.
I think so, too, but I'd argue that the move towards a more serialized
story had begun much earlier than that - by Season 3, at least, although
there were still more stand-alone episodes than in later seasons.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Horace LaBadie
Stephen Tempest <ste...@stempest.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Check the time line for recent events. They become virtually continuous
from day to day, or with little or no actual off-screen development
between the days shown.
Nothing is resolved from one day to the next. It is a continuous series
of events.
Whether that is good or bad depends on how much the audience loses
interest or remains eager to see the next event.
HWL
MBangel10 (Melissa)
You never once thought that all of Willow's spells and abuse of magic
wouldn't come back to bite her in the ass? Obviously, you took my
"here" far more literally than what I meant... since prior to this
episode I had no idea Rack would be the one with the teeth but still,
it's always been noted that magic has consequences in the Buffyverse
(even before Spike spelled it out for us) so logically, something bad
had to happen.
MBangel10 (Melissa)
EGK wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2006 10:07:43 -0700, "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <MBan...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >I'm going to go with Decent on this one. For the opposite reasons: The
> >Willow story was okay but they could have done it a bit better. The
> >Spike/Buffy interactions is what made this one worth a second viewing.
>
> I'd guess the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why many of
> us hated season 6. It became a line in the sand so to speak. Some like
> you, loved it, others like me felt they had turned BTVS into the FriendsTV
> show joke. "Buffy The Vampire Layer".
They are also responsible for why so many of us loved S6. However, Btvs
was NEVER anything like Friends at all, ever, period, end of story. Not
even in the same ball park. Buffy was in a much bigger, complex, state
of the art, filled to the brim with peanutty goodness ball park.
Friends was just the little league when it came to telling stories.
>
> I would never tell you that you're wrong for liking it.
Yes, because then I'd have to point, laugh, and mock you if you did.
:-p
Different strokes
> and all that. I always liked the character of Spike before he became a
> regular. I just never liked seeing it turned in to The Spuffy show. In
> that case I have to agree with those who often sarcastically claim those who
> hated it just didn't like the direction the writers took the show in. Duhh.
> No kidding?
I loved the early seasons for what they were, and I loved the later
seasons for what they were too. I'm one of those happy few that enjoyed
the whole darn series and could see the good on both sides. However, I
just happened to enjoy the second half more than the first. I never
looked at the later seasons as "the Spuffy show" anymore than I looked
at the earlier seasons as "the Bangel show", heck, if I added up the
minutes I bet there was more Bangel screen time that Spuffy, but
seriously, who cares? As long as the story is good and I'm kept
entertained that is all that matters to me in the end.
Rincewind
> EGK wrote:
>>
>> I'd guess the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why many
>> of
>> us hated season 6. It became a line in the sand so to speak. Some like
>> you, loved it, others like me felt they had turned BTVS into the
>> FriendsTV
>> show joke. "Buffy The Vampire Layer".
>
> They are also responsible for why so many of us loved S6. However, Btvs
> was NEVER anything like Friends at all, ever, period, end of story. Not
> even in the same ball park. Buffy was in a much bigger, complex, state
> of the art, filled to the brim with peanutty goodness ball park.
> Friends was just the little league when it came to telling stories.
I don't think this is what the poster meant.
I think he was referring to a a specific joke in a Friends episode in which
Phoebe Buffay apparently starred in a porn movie called "Buffay the Vampire
Layer".
Anyway, for me the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why I
didn't stop watching the show after this episode.
Rincewind.
--
Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
BUFFY: Willow! Oh my god, is that...?
WILLOW: No! No, don't worry Buffy, it's not sage. It's just regular crack.
MBangel10 (Melissa)
Rincewind wrote:
> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <MBan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > EGK wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd guess the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why many
> >> of
> >> us hated season 6. It became a line in the sand so to speak. Some like
> >> you, loved it, others like me felt they had turned BTVS into the
> >> FriendsTV
> >> show joke. "Buffy The Vampire Layer".
> >
> > They are also responsible for why so many of us loved S6. However, Btvs
> > was NEVER anything like Friends at all, ever, period, end of story. Not
> > even in the same ball park. Buffy was in a much bigger, complex, state
> > of the art, filled to the brim with peanutty goodness ball park.
> > Friends was just the little league when it came to telling stories.
>
> I don't think this is what the poster meant.
> I think he was referring to a a specific joke in a Friends episode in which
> Phoebe Buffay apparently starred in a porn movie called "Buffay the Vampire
> Layer".
>
> Anyway, for me the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why I
> didn't stop watching the show after this episode.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Still, it gave me an excuse to
say peanutty goodness. hee!
Ari
I'm sorry but it seems to me what a lot of S/B shippers wished for was
a B/A redux, only a teensy bit more snarkier maybe. *shudders* One
thing's for sure -- I am terribly relieved that redemptionists and/or
S/B shippers alike weren't the ones in control over the direction of
the show. For instance the Barbverse? Talented writer, but no, her
Spike and Spuffy is far from my ideal. ME came pretty close to how I
imagined S/B would be when I started having thoughts about them in S2,
actually.
Arbitrar Of Quality
Arbitrar Of Quality
lili...@gmail.com wrote:
> I guess I'm the reverse of you, the Spike/Buffy scenes in this ep are
> strong, the Willow scenes just make me want to slap the hell out of her
> and get her off the show. Unfortunately since Willow is Joss' fave Mary
> Sue, that's never going to happen.
"Mary Sue" doesn't mean what you apparently think it does.
-AOQ
William George Ferguson
<rincewi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"MBangel10 (Melissa)" <MBan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> EGK wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd guess the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why many
>>> of
>>> us hated season 6. It became a line in the sand so to speak. Some like
>>> you, loved it, others like me felt they had turned BTVS into the
>>> FriendsTV
>>> show joke. "Buffy The Vampire Layer".
>>
>> They are also responsible for why so many of us loved S6. However, Btvs
>> was NEVER anything like Friends at all, ever, period, end of story. Not
>> even in the same ball park. Buffy was in a much bigger, complex, state
>> of the art, filled to the brim with peanutty goodness ball park.
>> Friends was just the little league when it came to telling stories.
>
>I don't think this is what the poster meant.
>I think he was referring to a a specific joke in a Friends episode in which
>Phoebe Buffay apparently starred in a porn movie called "Buffay the Vampire
>Layer".
>
In the interest of nitpickery, Phoebe didn't star in the film, her twin
sister Ursula (the character Aniston played on Mad About You) did. Of
course, you did say 'apparently'.
--
"Timothy Dalton should get an Oscar and
beat Sean Connery over the head with it!"
-The Other Guy (you know, Tucker's brother)
Lord Usher
@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> Marti Noxon herself admitted later that they hit the drug metaphor too
> hard. It distracted people from what they had really intended.
> Willow wasn't really addicted to magic itself, she was addicted to the
> feeling it gave her.
Which would all be well and good, had the episode not also completely
misidentified the feeling Willow was "addicted" to.
--
Lord Usher
"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I liked Amy's phrase "I'm gonna boot" for "I'm about to vomit." Is this
> just Whedonspeak, or do people say that in real life?
No, that's a real term.
> As others have already said, one of the most striking things about this
> scene is that Willow is now simply getting high on the magic, rather than
> using it to *do* anything. Not sure exactly what they're trying to say
> with that, but it seems noteworthy.
The nature of Willow's desire for magic is changing. Again, I like the
idea from Stephen's post about how it's gone from helping oters to
helping herself to amusing herself to just having it around. And since
she just lost her most recent person-blankie, one can think of it as
her mystical-force-blankie. But with orgasm-non-spells and
strawberries.
> Not in my book. I often list Beer Bad as the lowest quality episode, but
> Wrecked as the least enjoyable one. It's a slightly dull but competent
> telling of a story that I just don't like. Call Wrecked a low Decent.
> But I would enjoy watching Beer Bad more, Weak though it is.
So is BB the only episode of the whole series you'd rank below Decent?
Someone's quite a fan...
-AOQ
Lord Usher
news:mdg0n37is6ce$.1jrw7mzwbqftu$.d...@40tude.net:
>> "It's not an elaboration on what came before; it's a bait-and-switch.
>> Magick is suddenly endowed with an altogether new and unhinted-at
>> property, physical addiction,
>
> No what Rack gave her lead to that. Surely its possible to conceive of
> Rack imbuing what he gives Willow an addictive component.
In which case the "magic qua addiction" storyline laid out in this episode
is altogether arbitrary and doesn't speak to Willow's desires or actions in
previous episodes at all -- so why waste our time?
Lord Usher
@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
> Oh, come on. Just one analogy? The addiction analogy is beaten into
> our heads over and over again with, as I said, all the subtlety of a
> sledgehammer. We have Willow trembling in withdrawl in the shower. We
> have Amy coming by the house to steal Willow's "herbs" and throwing up
> in their bathroom. We have a magic den that looks like a crack house
> and a magic "dealer" named *Rack.* We have Willow whoring herself out
> (complete with slang used specifically to refer to crack whores) for
> Rack's "special brand" of magic. We have Willow up on the ceiling (Hey
> look! She's high! Ha ha ha!) tripping her brains out.
Indeed. The analogy is awful, just awful, so embarrassingly literal-minded
that it doesn't even bother to account for the ways in which the analogy
simply *doesn't fit*.
Why in God's name would someone break into a house to steal *kitchen
spices*? You can go down to the store and *buy* them for two bucks a pop!
Clairel
> >
> > should *not* have been
> > > pleased by Mr. Warlock's little spell. Floating helplessly through
> > > alternate dimensions while some creep sucks metaphysical strawberries
> > > out of her? That's a *passive* fantasy, a fantasy of surrender, and I
> > > don't buy that Willow would be anything but appalled by it."
> >
> > I think Stephen goes through the motivations pretty well, so I'll just
> > let his post stand. That being said, if you don't think this seduction
> > (let's back away from the addiction, since that's just one analogy)
>
> Oh, come on. Just one analogy? The addiction analogy is beaten into our
> heads over and over again with, as I said, all the subtlety of a
> sledgehammer. We have Willow trembling in withdrawl in the shower. We
> have Amy coming by the house to steal Willow's "herbs" and throwing up
> in their bathroom. We have a magic den that looks like a crack house
> and a magic "dealer" named *Rack.* We have Willow whoring herself out
> (complete with slang used specifically to refer to crack whores) for
> Rack's "special brand" of magic. We have Willow up on the ceiling (Hey
> look! She's high! Ha ha ha!) tripping her brains out.
>
> blubbering apologies. How many after-school specials about drugs do you
> figure had a scene just like that one?
>
> Addiction isn't "just one analogy" here - it's the *only* analogy. And
> Joss and Marti went to great lengths to make it that way.
--I hardly ever agree with the above poster, and EGK, et al., about
anything. But I agree about this.
The argument that Willow's friends just treated her over-use of magic
like drug addiction because *they* were using a template that was more
familiar and understandable to them, doesn't really work. It's all too
clear that not only Buffy's friends, but also the writers themselves,
are trying to fit Willow's problems into the drug-abuse template. It's
all right there, in the goings-on at Rack's place, Amy's ridiculous
atempt to raid Buffy's kitchen for sage, of all things (as if she
couldn't have gone to an all-night grocery story? Come on!), and all
the details listed in the post above.
The writers's treatment -- not just Willow's friends' treatment, but
the WRITERS' treatment -- of Willow's problems was stupid and inane.
For me it makes "Wrecked" my third-from-the-bottom episode of season 6.
And I like season 6 a lot, on the whole. (My other two most-hated
episodes of season 6 haven't come along yet, AOQ, but I'm already
bracing myself for the news that you'll like them -- I've almost come
to expect that from the strange man who likes "Dead Man's Party.") But
the Willow part of "Wrecked" is just incredibly stupid. The only
reason I don't rank this episode ven lower than 3rd-from-bottom is
because the scenes involving Spike and Buffy were pretty well done --
painful, but well done. The actors were in top form.
I'm surprised at AOQ's boredom with those scenes. He seems to think
they're just same old, same old. I thought they crackled. Anybody who
can complain about those scenes yet be so receptive to the idiotic
Willow-as-crack-whore scenes, well . . . !
One thing that might be interesting for you to know, AOQ, is that
originally the ending of "Wrecked" was supposed to be very different,
with Buffy so disgusted with Willow putting Dawn in danger that she
throws Willow out of the house. And from that point on, Willow was
supposed to become more and more estranged from her friends. (I'm not
saying there'll never be any such estrangement, and I'm not saying
there will be either -- I'm avoiding spoilers -- I'm just saying that
the original plan for dramatizing Willow's problems was supposed to
have involved a much more rapid and drastic plummet into the depths.)
What do you think of that road not taken, AOQ?
I'm interested, AOQ, in your interpretation of Buffy's forgiveness of
Willow in the scene where Willow is kneeling and sobbing in the street.
I think this is the first time I've ever read the suggestion that
Buffy goes easy on Willow at that particular moment just because Buffy
sees a similarity between what Willow has been doing and what she,
Buffy, has been doing with Spike. The thing is, what Willow has been
doing endangered Dawn, and what Buffy has been doing with Spike didn't
endanger Dawn -- unless you want to argue that Buffy staying out all
night long, the night she spent with Spike, constituted criminal
negligence. Even if you lay heavy stress on that, it stil isn't
comparable to Willow taking Dawn to Rack's place and then siccing a
monster on Dawn and getting Dawn in a car crash. The parallel just
isn't there.
I can kind of see where you get your idea because in the previous
episode, "Smashed," when Buffy and Xander and Anya are at the Magic
Shop talking about Willow's problems, it's very clear that Buffy takes
the whole conversation as a parallel to her own getting wild and crazy
with Spike. So, yes, a parallel was previously established, and in
Buffy's mind to boot. I just think that endangering Buffy's sister
takes Willow's behavior to a whole new level that Buffy can't really
compare to her own sexual naughtiness. In other words, what I'm saying
is that I could easily see ME going with the alternative ending, and
Buffy being a lot harsher towards Willow. Willow clearly is a
dangerous person to have around, and a bad influence on Dawn, in a way
that the sexually-naughty Buffy isn't. That's a whole other thing.
Clairel
Clairel
--Uncanny, LU: You and I must have been writing virtually the same
thing, in reply to the same post, at the very same moment in time!
Clairel
Lord Usher
news:1155301279.7...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> Anyway, Willow's magic is completely essential to her sense of self, and
> she only decides to give it up once it starts to take her over - *not*
> because she's learned any lessons about abuse of power. I'd been trying
> to figure out why the end of "Wrecked" didn't feel like a real solution -
> it doesn't seem like it's meant to be
So Willow hasn't learned anything, and the story doesn't really say
anything about her *real* issues with magic, and all it does is distract us
and the characters away from those issues for a while...
Why is that "Good," exactly?
Clairel
Apteryx wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Six, Episode 9: "Wrecked"
>
> they couldn't get Buffy to jump over it) and now they call this episode
> "Wrecked". And they already gave us the appropriate catch-phrase the
> last time they replaced Willow with a Doppleganger - Bored Now.
>
> >
> > So...
> >
> > One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
> >
> > AOQ rating: Good
>
> Weak for me. Way weak. It is an important development for Willow, so
> you can't skip it ...
--Oh, I could skip the episode if that's all there were to it; no
problem! In fact, I always fast-forward through the Willow scenes
anyway.
The reason this episode can't be skilled is because it's Buffy and
Spike's Morning After. And that's just too important to be skipped.
Clairel
Rowan Hawthorn
How "originally" are we talking here? The copy of the shooting script I
have is very little different from what aired. This is a couple of
times where you've mentioned how things were "originally supposed" to
have been done differently in a particular episode, but no interviews
I've ever seen have given any *real* specifics as to what was planned -
mostly just brief hints and generalities. How about some links, for the
rest of us who are curious?
Apteryx
George W Harris wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2006 06:10:17 -0700, "jil...@hotmail.com"> :> You know, I had this exact discussion with the finaceee after we
> :> watched this, and then forgot about the whole conversation. She
> :> thought of it as an allegory about drugs (which she enjoyed), whereas I
> :> thought of it as a uniquely Buffyverse issue that uses drug addiction
> :> as a "familiar" comparison.
> :
> :More than that. People keep going "it's about the magic!" It wasn't
> :about the magic. It was about her using Black Magic, Dark Magic, and
> :assuming that just because she wanted to do good with it, that would be
> :enough to cancel out it being Black.
>
> Which, really, started in "Bargaining", with the
> sacrifice of the faun.
She sacrificed Mr Tumnus? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faun
Noooooo!!! :)
Apteryx
Clairel
Rincewind wrote:
> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <MBan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > EGK wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd guess the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why many
> >> of
> >> us hated season 6. It became a line in the sand so to speak. Some like
> >> you, loved it, others like me felt they had turned BTVS into the
> >> FriendsTV
> >> show joke. "Buffy The Vampire Layer".
> >
> > They are also responsible for why so many of us loved S6. However, Btvs
> > was NEVER anything like Friends at all, ever, period, end of story. Not
> > even in the same ball park. Buffy was in a much bigger, complex, state
> > of the art, filled to the brim with peanutty goodness ball park.
> > Friends was just the little league when it came to telling stories.
>
> I don't think this is what the poster meant.
> I think he was referring to a a specific joke in a Friends episode in which
> Phoebe Buffay apparently starred in a porn movie called "Buffay the Vampire
> Layer".
>
> Anyway, for me the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why I
> didn't stop watching the show after this episode.
--That's really interesting. Could you elaborate on that?
I'm guessing you mean that the idiotic crack-Willow scenes made you
profoundly doubt the writers' basic competence and judgment, but the
S/B interactions were just too interesting to give up watching the
show? I.e., you were eager to see what would come next for S/B, even
though dreading more crack-Willow idiocy?
Please tell me if my inferences are correct. Perhaps you meant
something different? (The above paragraph describes my thoughts back
in November 2001, anyway -- I was fascinated by S/B, and that alone
would have kept me watching no matter how idiotic the other subplots
might have gotten.)
Thanks,
Clairel
Clairel
stev...@earthlink.net wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
> >
> > AOQ rating: Good
> >
>
> necessarily dislike an occasional episode that is a little more broad
> or over-the-top - it's good for the soul and quite entertaining, too.
>
> I liked it!
--I disagree with the "fans either love or hate" statement. Aside from
you and AOQ, I've never encountered any fan who liked this episode, as
an overall episode. Everyone I know either hated it completely, or
hated the Willow scenes and liked the S/B scenes.
Where is the large camp of "Wrecked"-lovers? What segment of fandom
would that be? A pretty tiny one, I'd wager.
Clairel
EGK
wrote:
>
>EGK wrote:
>> On 11 Aug 2006 10:07:43 -0700, "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <MBan...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >I'm going to go with Decent on this one. For the opposite reasons: The
>> >Willow story was okay but they could have done it a bit better. The
>> >Spike/Buffy interactions is what made this one worth a second viewing.
>>
>> I'd guess the Spike/Buffy interaction is largely responsible for why many of
>> us hated season 6. It became a line in the sand so to speak. Some like
>> you, loved it, others like me felt they had turned BTVS into the FriendsTV
>> show joke. "Buffy The Vampire Layer".
>
>They are also responsible for why so many of us loved S6. However, Btvs
>was NEVER anything like Friends at all, ever, period, end of story. Not
>even in the same ball park. Buffy was in a much bigger, complex, state
>of the art, filled to the brim with peanutty goodness ball park.
>Friends was just the little league when it came to telling stories.
I guess you never watched Friends. I wasn't saying it was like Friends.
Friends did an episode in one season where they parodied Buffy. I don't
recall for sure but I think it was Pheobe's twin who was in a porn movie
named Buffy The Vampire Layer.
What I'm saying is that to me Buffy became a show that began to both take
itself too seriously and at the same time unintentionally parody itself. A
friend who started watching BTVS from the beginning was quit when he went
away to college. That coincidentally coincided with the characters on the
show entering college. Anyway, live intruded and he stopped watching it. By
the time of season 6 he asked me what was going on with the show and when I
told him Buffy was screwing Spike, he thought I was making a joke.
>> I would never tell you that you're wrong for liking it.
>
>Yes, because then I'd have to point, laugh, and mock you if you did.
>:-p
>
>Different strokes
>> and all that. I always liked the character of Spike before he became a
>> regular. I just never liked seeing it turned in to The Spuffy show. In
>> that case I have to agree with those who often sarcastically claim those who
>> hated it just didn't like the direction the writers took the show in. Duhh.
>> No kidding?
>
>I loved the early seasons for what they were, and I loved the later
>seasons for what they were too. I'm one of those happy few that enjoyed
>the whole darn series and could see the good on both sides. However, I
>just happened to enjoy the second half more than the first. I never
>looked at the later seasons as "the Spuffy show" anymore than I looked
>at the earlier seasons as "the Bangel show", heck, if I added up the
>minutes I bet there was more Bangel screen time that Spuffy, but
>seriously, who cares? As long as the story is good and I'm kept
>entertained that is all that matters to me in the end.
That's just it. Many of us wondered what became of the fun show that used
to be so entertaining.
burt...@hotmail.com
> William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> writes:
>
> >I think it's pretty darned clear that Willow/Tara/Dawn relationship is
> >played as a metaphor for separated parents (it's nice that something on the
> >show is still done as a less than sledgehammery metaphor).
>
> It's odd, because for me the W/T/D divorce metaphor was just as
> obvious, if not more so, than the Willow/magic/drugs one. So why does
> it seem less sledgehammery? Why doesn't it provoke howls of outrage?
>
> Or more to the point, what's so uniquely bad about the magic=drugs
> analogy that it *does* raise such a storm of opposition - compared to
> all the other metaphors the show has given us? I don't get it. Maybe
> because as a child I missed out on all these 'after-school specials'
> the Americans here keep going on about? Or because suddenly telling
> us that magic has a downside ruined people's escapist fantasies? It
> puzzles me.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I hated the magic addiction
storyline for a few reasons:
1) It came out of nowhere. As much as I disliked the Spike/Buffy
storyline, I can't deny that it had a good deal of setup in the
episodes leading up to it (I don't care for the way most of that setup
was handled, but that's a different matter). But magic being physically
addictive and capable of sending someone into withdrawl if they don't
get their fix? There wasn't so much as a hint of that anywhere in the
previous seasons. Nor in the previous episodes in season 6. Up to the
very end of "Smashed," while it's clear that magic can lead to problems
if it's not used properly, there's no indication that anyone can
actually get addicted to it. That's something that was pulled out of
thin air for "Wrecked," and it goes against everything we've seen about
magic on the show so far.
2) It completely derailed the Willow storyline that had been building
not just over the course of season 6, but over the course of several
seasons on the show. Willow using magic as a quick fix to deal with
personal problems in her life is an arc that we can see the beginnings
of all the way back in "Lovers Walk," where she's prepared to cast a
delusting spell on Xander without his knowledge or consent. We see on
multiple occasions during the show that Willow is perfectly willing to
use magic as a means to avoid dealing with emotional issues, no matter
what the cost might be to anyone else. This arc is nowhere more evident
than at the beginning of season 6, where she mindwipes Tara once and
then, once she's discovered, tries to do it again, to both Tara and
Buffy. In short, Willow was clearly headed toward a very dark place
with her magic.
And then "Wrecked" comes along and tosses all that away. Dark Willow is
replaced with Junkie Willow who, rather than using magic to gain power
and control over others and thus by extension her own life, is simply
addicted to the magic itself. What could have been an extremely
compelling storyline about a flawed, but basically good, person falling
into darkness became an exceedingly simplistic "drugs are bad, mmmkay?"
metaphor. Willow drives while high, and crashes the car, which makes
her decide that she has to quit magic cold turkey. None of her
emotional issues which led to her misuse of magic in previous episodes
are dealt with. It was a tremendous wasted opportunity.
3) It was just plain *stupid.* None of the skill and subtlety the show
had displayed in dealing with metaphor in the earlier seasons was
present here. We have a magical crack dealer, complete with his crack
den and junkies waiting in the lobby. We have Willow as a metaphorical
whore (who, by the way, is willing to trade sex for Rack's drugs
*without even having tried them first* - how much sense does that
make?). And we have an ending that could have been lifted almost
verbatim from probably a dozen ABC after school specials. It was truly
a low point for the show - I personally know people for whom this
episode was the last straw, even though I kept soldiering on.... Bleah.
Clairel
--I'm going from memory of the spoilers that were reported in early
fall 2001. If you weren't reading spoiler threads back then, you might
not know about this. In fact, they might not have been reported on the
NG at all; they were reported on other forums.
A spoiler queen with excellent espionage skills got hold of an outline
of the first half of season 6 that ME had written up for the UPN
network execs. It wasn't supposed to be public knowledge. It listed
the episode of S/B's Morning After as the episode that ended with
Willow getting thrown out of the house. It also did not have "Life
Serial" listed at all. Later, in interviews, the writers did
acknowledge that LS was hastily written to fill the gap in October that
was created by "Bargaining" being shown all on one night as a two-hour
episode. The reason the gap needed to be filled was so that "All the
Way" could still air the week of Halloween. The writers also talked in
interviews about how four writers were involved in writing LS, even
though only two were officially credited. You should be able to find
those interviews.
As I recall, the outline written for the UPN execs showed that nsgre
Jvyybj tbg guebja bhg ol Ohssl, Gnen'f qrngu jbhyq bpphe abg gbb ybat
nsgrejneq, naq fb gurer jbhyq or Qnex Jvyybj sbe n jubyr unys-frnfba nf
gur erpheevat Ovt Onq. Jung unccrarq, gubhtu, vf gung Wbff puvpxrarq
bhg ba gur vqrn bs znxvat Jvyybj fb qnex sbe fb ybat. Naq fb jr arire
tbg gubfr fcrpvsvp qrirybczragf va frnfba 6 - whfg n qrynlrq naq
gehapngrq irefvba bs gurz. Fbzr crbcyr jub xarj nobhg gur nygreangvir
cyna erterg gung vg qvqa'g unccra. I'm sorry I didn't permanently save
that UPN-execs outline; it was interesting to read.
Clairel
Rowan Hawthorn
> stev...@earthlink.net wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>> One-sentence summary: Some very nice Willow stuff, the rest less so.
>>>
>>> AOQ rating: Good
>>>
>> Very much an episode fans either love or hate. FWIW, I don't
>> necessarily dislike an occasional episode that is a little more broad
>> or over-the-top - it's good for the soul and quite entertaining, too.
>>
>> I liked it!
>
> --I disagree with the "fans either love or hate" statement. Aside from
> you and AOQ, I've never encountered any fan who liked this episode, as
> an overall episode. Everyone I know either hated it completely, or
> hated the Willow scenes and liked the S/B scenes.
Apparently you just weren't listening (or spending most of the time
hanging out on Spike-centric boards...?)
Opus the Penguin
> Given how they turned out, I think seasons 6-7 are a perfect
> example of what can happen when the inmates run the asylum. Not
> that I was offended by it, but it was too often just plain bad.
> BTVS also supposedly had a larger budget in those seasons but
> you'd never know it. The show looked cheap to me in the last two
> years.
Is it possible that the budget went disproportionately to the salaries
of the principals and less was left over for other production values?
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet