Realism: get rid of it
JLB
like it's a good thing. I don't agree. It's claimed it makes them
easier to relate too. But it's a superficial relationship. Certainly
people have had friends betray them, but in the Buffyverse it seems no
one is truly trustworthy. I don't watch 24 but I know the main
character's wife was killed because it was felt that both his wife and
his daughter was to Hollywood. Yet this season his wife's murderer
being the only one to possess necessary information passed this
reality test. Not only that but from the commercials the government
agency that he works for has it's second high level traitor inside of
a year. I'm certain many women could relate to their boyfriends
changing after sex but I doubt many want to end the world.
I hope realism being demanded in fiction is a trend that will pass.
Or at least it will get more real all around.
JLB
puddleduck
"JLB" <bar...@shentel.net> wrote in message
news:c7b2ff96.03020...@posting.google.com...
I agree. I hate when people say things aren't realistic enough and it would
never happen in real life, etc. I say thats exactly why I watch fantasy
stuff, to escape reality for a bit. Its just fun to watch TV, at least IMO
Roseann
Aethelrede
puddleduck wrote in message
<3Jg0a.109654$i73.25...@twister.neo.rr.com>...
If people want something closer to reality they can always watch CNN:
that is fairly close to reality a lot of the time.
puddleduck
"Aethelrede" <aethe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:NYj0a.34471$zF6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
*Most* of the time, anyways...
Roseann
higgy
> There seems to be a lot made of realism in fiction and it's treated
> like it's a good thing. I don't agree. It's claimed it makes them
> easier to relate too. But it's a superficial relationship. Certainly
> people have had friends betray them, but in the Buffyverse it seems no
> one is truly trustworthy. I don't watch 24 but I know the main
> character's wife was killed because it was felt that both his wife and
> his daughter was to Hollywood. Yet this season his wife's murderer
> being the only one to possess necessary information passed this
> reality test. Not only that but from the commercials the government
> agency that he works for has it's second high level traitor inside of
> a year. I'm certain many women could relate to their boyfriends
> changing after sex but I doubt many want to end the world.
I did actually watch all of the first season of 24 and, despite it's
attempts at what I assume was "gritty realism", it became one of the most
laughably stupid shows I have ever seen. And before someone brings out that
well-worn "why didn't you stop watching?" argument, I'll admit that, in
addition to one of my family members wanting to see how it ended, I was
also morbidly curious myself.
> I hope realism being demanded in fiction is a trend that will pass.
> Or at least it will get more real all around.
I generally agree. I tend to think that the writers in Buffy have gotten
carried away trying to pursue every possible relationship crisis they can
think of. Most shows are like that, anyway, which is one reason I don't
watch much television.
Dave.
himiko
I think you are confusing various kinds of realism.
First, there's character realism which is essential. Characters must
behave within parameters that are identifiable as human...unless they
aren't human in which case they can behave however they like.
Characters must also maintain a pattern of behavior consistently; they
can't be a wimpy little scaredy cat one episode and Rambo the next
unless there's a very compelling explanation in the plot. Characters
can change over time, of course, but either that happens slowly or
some reason is given for a dramatic change.
Then there's plot reality. Events need to remain within the
parameters of what is possible in the universe being depicted. This
also includes continuity. You can't blow up a building one week and
have a meeting in it the next...unless you have already introduced
nanobots that instantly rebuilt buildings, of course.
There's also the question of cathartic reality which allows people to
identify with situations in a metaphoric way. I'm sure a lot of
people identify with having a partner change after sex, and with the
desire to blow up the world on that account. The ending the world
isn't realistic as an act, but the desire is realistic as a emotion.
himiko
JLB
It's the catharic reality that is the problem.
JLB
Paulfxfoley
>I hope realism being demanded in fiction is a trend that will pass.
It is curious that "not very realistic" is equated with "bad".
Fiction shouldn't be taken literally. The obsession with taking fiction more
and more literally has given us all those godawful "reality TV" shows. Which
of course are anything but real, but don't get me started...
--Paul
---------------------------------------
"On her white Breast a sparkling Cross she wore / That Jews might kiss, and
Infidels adore.
--Alexander Pope
himiko
> > identify with situations in a metaphoric way. I'm sure a lot of
> > people identify with having a partner change after sex, and with the
> > desire to blow up the world on that account. The ending the world
> > isn't realistic as an act, but the desire is realistic as a emotion.
> >
> > himiko
>
> It's the catharic reality that is the problem.
>
> JLB
Why a problem? Catharsis is generally regarded as a good thing.
Would you rather people really did blow stuff up?
himiko
JLB
They work to hard to create the metaphor and sometimes it seems like
their strecthing ot to me. But maybe I just feel that way because I'm
able to get cartharsis(I hope I have the definition right) fairly
easily. Pro wrestling and pro football. People attacking each other
for no point but to beat others, or settle a rivalry but they're
heavily trained and/or heavily padded so the actual incidents of them
getting hurt are unintentional and rare.
JLB
Aethelrede
himiko wrote in message ...
Within reason, yes. I remember seeing a dynamite (sorry!) show on TLC
or some such where people loaded the hole in an anvil with black powder and
then put another anvil on top and blew the second anvil several hundred feet
up into the air. That's catharsis!
It's a recognised sport, like pumpkin chunkin' or throwing cars 500 feet
using a trebuchet.
If anyone needs a volunteer this summer for any of the above, send
email...
himiko
But not as unintentional and rare as actors actually getting hurt on a
set. The point is the same and a good thing in both cases, IMO. But
I need more build-up to my cathartic events. The sports you mention
just don't do it for me.
himiko
TheBaron
Nice summation. But here is my problem with *some* of ME's plots
since s6. They have sacrificed both character reality and plot
reality in favor of the symbolism. S6 as a whole is a great example.
ME wanted it to be about growing up. The only problem with that is
that they had to regress the characters back in maturity to achieve
it. The characters all were more mature in attitude and responsiblity
in the previous seasons then season 6.
James
JLB
That's a very good point. Why did character's that had already grown
up and done so pretty well need to do it again?
himiko
This wasn't a problem for me because I felt it was the shock over
Buffy's death that unhinged the Scoobs; it took away the center of
their universe. Similarly, Buffy's return from the dead left her
shell-shocked and uncertain. They came into adulthood only to be
side-swiped by the worst eventualities they could imagine. In real
life, the Scoobs' situation might be likened to a dramatic loss of
faith in some centering belief system; Buffy's would be more of mental
breakdown. Symbolism aside, regression seemed not unlikely for any of
them.
I did think it went on for much too long for dramatic reasons, but
realistically it made sense.
I do think, though, that ME has yet to come to terms with growing up
as an adult process in BTVS. After all, one doesn't suddenly wake up
and it's all done. Portraying adult maturation is much harder to do.
It's slower and less dramatic than teen age; almost anything is slower
and less dramatic than the teen years. It means coming to terms with
more ambiguous evils and also recognizing oneself as part of multiple
networks rather than just an individual with maybe a single core
group.
For these reasons, as I posted on another thread, the vampire slayer
metaphor ceases to work as well as it did. Yet, ME seems to be upping
the focus on Buffy when they should be reducing it, showing the Scoobs
as they adapt their various other networks. This would/should include
Willow and Xander's love lives (now extinct and having to be started
over again), and their other work and interest groups: Willow's Wicca
and university associations and Xander's work affiliations...maybe
also a non-Scooby male friend or two? And, as Buffy's having friends
in high school proved to be an unexpected asset in high school, these
confusing networks should be shown as enriching as well as confusing
on occasion.
I'm advocating a Willow the Witch spin-off here, BTW. ;)
himiko
Sean Daugherty
> > since s6. They have sacrificed both character reality and plot
> > reality in favor of the symbolism. S6 as a whole is a great example.
> > ME wanted it to be about growing up. The only problem with that is
> > that they had to regress the characters back in maturity to achieve
> > it. The characters all were more mature in attitude and responsiblity
> > in the previous seasons then season 6.
> >
> > James
>
> That's a very good point. Why did character's that had already grown
> up and done so pretty well need to do it again?
I've found I enjoy S6 a good deal more if I take a different view: it
wasn't about the characters neccessarily "growing up," more of a sort
of trial by fire of adulthood. Buffy had reached a fair degree of
maturity while she still had all her old safety nets to fall back on
(her friends, her mother, Giles, etc.), but S6 showed what happened
when those nets were taken away. She had to walk the walk, not just
talk the talk. She got put through the wringer: eventually, she
emerged from it as a better, more stable and mature adult, but it was
a tortuous path than involved some backsliding. Same situation with
Willow, both in her relationship with Tara and growing magical skill.
Also with Xander's engagement to Anya.
I like this description, and it makes a lot of sense to me (at least).
It doesn't totally excuse every single pitfall of the season, but it
makes the whole product fairly palatable.