AOQ Angel Review 1-7: "The Bachelor Party"

[Arbitrar Of Quality]

A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
episodes in these review threads

ANGEL
Season One, Episode 7: "The Bachelor Party"
(or "Braaaaaains!")
Writer: Tracey Stern
Director: David Straiton

The teaser doesn't bode well for non-fans of Cordelia like me.
Chuckle at her insipidness! No thanks. Fortunately, Stern soon
demonstrates that she doesn't intend to leave it at that. TBP is
unusual in that the first act is pretty much all background, even
getting its own mini-plot before the core story of the episode kicks
in. Angel and Doyle perform a gratis rescue, while Cordelia discovers,
again, that she can't play along with her self-image anymore, at
least with regards to dating. Like most decent people, Angel's
hoping she'll embrace some of these changes, but I suppose it's in
the character's nature that any changes to her personality will be
accompanied by kicking and screaming to the end. A few funny bits
include the vampire's assessment of the neighborhood, Pierce
immediately running away without even a token attempt at valor (and
Cordelia's line about it afterward), and best of all, Doyle
reenacting the fight to himself.

Just as that story's winding down, we meet Doyle's
soon-to-be-divorced wife (and get his full name; I can see why he'd
ditch "Francis," but "Allan" is perfectly fine...), and start
examining the less than unsavory parts of his past ("and you're just
about to tell me he ran [a soup kitchen], aren't you?" "He was just a
volunteer"). There're some interesting bits amongst that,
particularly the idea of suddenly discovering that you're half-demon
when you're twenty-one and thinking about kids yourself. Also
Harry's explanation that she freaked out "at first" but then got
interested in demonology puts an interesting spin on things. Families
of alien species who live among us, everywhere, and don't follow most
of their old traditions anymore is a fun premise, which I tend to enjoy
seeing (it's Fantasy Stock Plot #14,923, so we don't get it as
often as some of the more popular ones).

The thing is, though, the episode still moves so slowly. It's all
about long reams of expository dialogue the likes of which ME shows
generally try to avoid, long speeches about the past that tell rather
than show. Meanwhile, the banter and storyline in between the
revelations is pretty damn idle. There's not a huge amount happening
here, between the long pans over locales and the long pans over people
at parties, partying. Fortunately the show doesn't drag everything
out forever; in the hands of a lesser episode, Doyle's realization
that Harry left him, not the demon, wouldn't happen until the end.

A cute moment: Doyle decides to stop drinking, or at least lighten up
on it a little. A minute later, that's forgotten.

There are multiple scares about Richard and his demon family being more
evil than they actually are. The initial tease is fun, with Angel
jumping to the obvious but wrong monster-movie conclusion when he sees
demon-Richard brandishing a knife. This leads to hope that just once,
to be different, the irritating suspicious demon guy might not actually
be up to anything too unpleasant. Then things take a more predictable
route, albeit with a joke I really liked despite its dumbness: "...
darts, then we have the ritual eating of the first husband's brains,
and then charades." "Wait! What was that?... *Charades*?" "Yeah, I
don't know about that." Actually, this episode is full of TIRSBILA
moments that move the plot along, between that and "well, they're
certainly not going to eat your ex-husband's brain! Or something."

Knowing about the ritual gives a sense of direction to the rest of the
episode, but then we have to spend twenty minutes watching the
characters slowly figure out what we already know. I don't know how
Angel expects Harry to memorize the foreign phrase after one hearing,
but there ya go.

There are a lot of obvious jokes in the intended brain-eating scene,
and it generally goes on too long, but nothing that I'd call
particularly painful to watch.

The ultimate conflict necessitates a barroom brawl and a falling out,
but not a fight to the death. Some people's ways are not Our ways,
so the demon family is able to continue playing the multiculturalist
card to the end. Hiding it from the prospective bride is the part that
wasn't so smart, especially given her complaints about her last
husband. Although a bit unsubtle, this is kind of a cool take on the
topic of what is and isn't expected of immigrants to the melting-pot
countries in terms of assimilation. On certain fronts, like the ones
that involve ritual human sacrifices, even the liberals among us may
have to demand absolute conformity. Feel free to list your own
real-world examples. And those who are big on reflecting things onto
the heroes, feel free to discuss how this relates to the experiences of
a half-demon who's rather ashamed of that half, or to a vampire
who's intentionally set himself apart from both vampirism and the
normal human world (think of "Into The Dark").

I'm glad to see that we're probably not going to be stuck with
Doyle pining after Cordelia all year with no further development. The
ending scene has her giving him a pep talk that's, well, exactly what
you'd expect from her, neither unrealistically well thought out nor
excessively insulting. There's a suggestion that we might actually
see the crush get reversed, though it's still not clear whether her
affection for Doyle can run in those directions.

I like the idea of Angel being the default person that Cordelia bounces
all her problems off while talking them through. I guess he's
partially filling her gay-friend niche, minus the shopping?

Harry's probably served her purpose; I don't really see any need
for her to appear again.

Could Carpenter more obviously be thirty-ish rather than twenty-ish?

This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- The ones mentioned above, plus "who wants a wife whose knees only
bend one way?"

I've already mentioned that Mrs. Quality has been close to drifting
away from the series for the last few episodes, ultimately because it
simply doesn't excite her that much, the way BTVS does. I think TBP
is a step in the right direction after RWAV and S&S, but it's still
ultimately just... not that exciting. This show badly needs some life.
Hopefully they'll knock us dead with whatever they're building
towards with all those visions of Buffy.

So...

One-sentence summary: Entertaining in a disposable way,

AOQ rating: Decent

[Season One so far:
1) "City Of" - Good
2) "Lonely Hearts" - Weak
3) "Into The Dark" - Good
4) "I Fall To Pieces" - Good
5) "Rm W/a Vu" - Decent
6) "Sense And Sensitivity" - Weak
7) "The Bachelor Party" - Decent]

[George W Harris]

What, no mention that the demon Richard
lives a very long life, eventually becoming an
undercover fugitive hunter for the Alliance using the
alias Dobson before getting shot in the face by
Malcolm Reynolds?
--
"The truths of mathematics describe a bright and clear universe,
exquisite and beautiful in its structure, in comparison with
which the physical world is turbid and confused."

-Eulogy for G.H.Hardy

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'

[Don Sample]

In article <1145854491....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 7: "The Bachelor Party"
> (or "Braaaaaains!")
> Writer: Tracey Stern
> Director: David Straiton
>

And we get another of Joss's Hat Trick actors. "Richard" was the demon
Ken in "Anne" and the Fed agent Dobson in "Serenity (the Episode)."

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

[mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges]

In article <dsample-490DA6...@news.giganews.com>,
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:

> In article <1145854491....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> > episodes in these review threads
> >
> >
> > ANGEL
> > Season One, Episode 7: "The Bachelor Party"
> > (or "Braaaaaains!")
> > Writer: Tracey Stern
> > Director: David Straiton
> >
>
> And we get another of Joss's Hat Trick actors. "Richard" was the demon
> Ken in "Anne" and the Fed agent Dobson in "Serenity (the Episode)."

sorta assumed he was evil in serenity
after seeing him in anne

arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him

[Apteryx]

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145854491....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>

> Just as that story's winding down, we meet Doyle's
> soon-to-be-divorced wife (and get his full name; I can see why he'd
> ditch "Francis,

Well, there's alwayd "Frank"

> The thing is, though, the episode still moves so slowly.

Finally! Something we agree on :)

> be up to anything too unpleasant. Then things take a more predictable
> route, albeit with a joke I really liked despite its dumbness: "...
> darts, then we have the ritual eating of the first husband's brains,
> and then charades." "Wait! What was that?... *Charades*?" "Yeah, I
> don't know about that."

That was pretty good. Though it does pale on rewatching

> The ultimate conflict necessitates a barroom brawl and a falling out,
> but not a fight to the death. Some people's ways are not Our ways,
> so the demon family is able to continue playing the multiculturalist
> card to the end. Hiding it from the prospective bride is the part that
> wasn't so smart, especially given her complaints about her last
> husband. Although a bit unsubtle, this is kind of a cool take on the
> topic of what is and isn't expected of immigrants to the melting-pot
> countries in terms of assimilation. On certain fronts, like the ones
> that involve ritual human sacrifices, even the liberals among us may
> have to demand absolute conformity.

Ritual _human_ sacrifices yes. But then Doyle's not entirely human. Maybe
Angel's being a little judgemental. Have you watched Pangs yet?

> I like the idea of Angel being the default person that Cordelia bounces
> all her problems off while talking them through. I guess he's
> partially filling her gay-friend niche, minus the shopping?

She should have told him that

> Could Carpenter more obviously be thirty-ish rather than twenty-ish?

I wasn't going to say. But technically Cordy shouldn't even be 20. LA seems
to have prematurely aged her.

> I've already mentioned that Mrs. Quality has been close to drifting
> away from the series for the last few episodes, ultimately because it
> simply doesn't excite her that much, the way BTVS does. I think TBP
> is a step in the right direction after RWAV and S&S, but it's still
> ultimately just... not that exciting. This show badly needs some life.
> Hopefully they'll knock us dead with whatever they're building
> towards with all those visions of Buffy.

When people were urging you to watch AtS episodes in sync with BtVS
episodes, "as intended", I was thinking "Not everybody who likes BtVS also
likes AtS". But they seemed so determined.

Some words of hope for Mrs Q: Rescue is on the way. AtS is drifting
aimlessly at this point , but you haven't yet seen the best of AtS Season 1,
and there are better seasons of AtS anyway. And some words of less hope: You
also haven't seen the worst of AtS Season 1, and Season 1 is not the worst
AtS season.

> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Entertaining in a disposable way,
>
> AOQ rating: Decent

Agree with the disposposibilty. Only very very mildly entertaining. Agree
with the Decent, although it is certainly closer to Weak than to Good. For
me its the 86th best AtS episode, 16th best in Season 1

--
Apteryx

[Apteryx]

"Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:HC_2g.16317$JZ1.6...@news.xtra.co.nz...

> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145854491....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>

>> AOQ rating: Decent
>
> Agree with the disposposibilty. Only very very mildly entertaining. Agree
> with the Decent, although it is certainly closer to Weak than to Good. For
> me its the 86th best AtS episode, 16th best in Season 1

Oops. Did I say Decent? That's the trouble with trying to carry in my head
the conversion rate between my numerical ratings and your verbal ones. No,
it's Weak, and in fact weaker than all but 2 of the 70-odd BtVS and AtS
episodes you have reviewed so far (Lonely Hearts and Killed By Death).

--
Apteryx

[Espen Schjønberg]

On 24.04.2006 07:55, mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des
anges wrote:
> In article <dsample-490DA6...@news.giganews.com>,

>>>
>>

> sorta assumed he was evil in serenity

We do aprreciate spoilers.

No, we don't.

Can you _not_ go into details of Firefly suddenly?

--
Espen

Noe er Feil[tm]

[Sam]

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> I've already mentioned that Mrs. Quality has been close to drifting
> away from the series for the last few episodes, ultimately because it
> simply doesn't excite her that much, the way BTVS does. I think TBP
> is a step in the right direction after RWAV and S&S, but it's still
> ultimately just... not that exciting. This show badly needs some life.
> Hopefully they'll knock us dead with whatever they're building
> towards with all those visions of Buffy.
>

Without getting into spoiler territory -- as others have probably
mentioned, AtS really is worth sticking with. It's a slow build, but
when it's really firing on all cylinders, and it does eventually begin
to do that, it's just as good as the best of BtVS.

[Slayah]

Or dare I say better. Maybe. Sometimes.

[Vanya6724]

But before he became Dobson he got married, moved to a suburb of Salt
Lake City, Utah and lived across the street from the Henrickson family.

I don't know if he's supposed to be an evil character on "Big Love",
but after his appearances in the Whedonverse I can never take him
seriously as a good guy.

[eli...@gmail.com]

Different. Excellent in its own way. You'll see.

[chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu]

In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Apteryx <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Some words of hope for Mrs Q: Rescue is on the way. AtS is drifting
> aimlessly at this point , but you haven't yet seen the best of AtS Season 1,
> and there are better seasons of AtS anyway. And some words of less hope: You
> also haven't seen the worst of AtS Season 1, and Season 1 is not the worst
> AtS season.

Totally unsolicited second opinion: I think season 1 *is* the worst season
of AtS. All of the later seasons are better, each in its own unique way.
So, you and the Mrs. have that to look forward to.

But I think we can all agree that you haven't yet seen most of the best
season 1 episodes. (Also one or two of the worst, but let's not dwell on
that.)

I'm not coming up with much to say about The Bachelor Party on this Monday
morning. I'd give it a Decent.

--Chris

______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.

[Slayah]

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:

> Totally unsolicited second opinion: I think season 1 *is* the worst
> season of AtS. All of the later seasons are better, each in its own
> unique way. So, you and the Mrs. have that to look forward to.

I discovered how to like Season 1. I'm not kidding, it happened by
accident. I decided to watch my DVD set of the entire series again, but
I skipped S1 and started with S2. By the end of S5 I was so sad, as
usual, that it was over. So sad that I turned to S1, just to have a
little more. And that's when I enjoyed it, because it was better than
nothing.

[Mike Zeares]

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> Could Carpenter more obviously be thirty-ish rather than twenty-ish?

I've always thought that, on AtS, they wrote Cordy as closer to
Charisma's age, rather than Cordelia's. She never really seemed like
an 18 year old.

> I've already mentioned that Mrs. Quality has been close to drifting
> away from the series for the last few episodes, ultimately because it
> simply doesn't excite her that much, the way BTVS does. I think TBP
> is a step in the right direction after RWAV and S&S, but it's still
> ultimately just... not that exciting. This show badly needs some life.
> Hopefully they'll knock us dead with whatever they're building
> towards with all those visions of Buffy.

At its core, AtS is a more introspective show than BtVS, concerned with
themes of redemption and personal demons. It does share the basic Joss
Whedon theme of created families. Anyway, just due to the nature of
its lead, there's less butt-kicking and more brooding. However, I
think even more than Buffy, Angel rewards those who stick with it.

-- Mike Zeares

[One Bit Shy]

"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145854491....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 7: "The Bachelor Party"
> (or "Braaaaaains!")
> Writer: Tracey Stern
> Director: David Straiton
>
> The teaser doesn't bode well for non-fans of Cordelia like me.
> Chuckle at her insipidness! No thanks.

As obvious as it is, I did chuckle at Angel playing the interrogating
father. He's pretty good at it.

> Fortunately, Stern soon
> demonstrates that she doesn't intend to leave it at that. TBP is
> unusual in that the first act is pretty much all background, even
> getting its own mini-plot before the core story of the episode kicks
> in. Angel and Doyle perform a gratis rescue, while Cordelia discovers,
> again, that she can't play along with her self-image anymore, at
> least with regards to dating. Like most decent people, Angel's
> hoping she'll embrace some of these changes, but I suppose it's in
> the character's nature that any changes to her personality will be
> accompanied by kicking and screaming to the end.

Hmmm. Last episode they started out mocking Cordy's self centered lack of
sensitivity. And Kate bluntly told her Doyle had a crush on her. I suppose
that wasn't really news, though she didn't seem to want to hear it. Nothing
in the way of self reflection.

Here, though, she seems to be confronting something about herself. Which is
progress in a way, except... it's kind of what she did all the way back in
Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered (your favorite S2 BtVS episode), and even
I find that a tad discouraging. She even references Xander. On the other
hand, perhaps I should just consider it slowly recovering from the
personality regression induced by her break up with Xander - or maybe a
little necessary reset to allow her progression to occur in AtS.

Whatever. I think it must matter to this series that she recognizes here
the essential shallowness of the people she thinks she's supposed to like
and the real substance of "losers" like Doyle. (From a writing perspective,
I also think it's nice that they use Cordelia's recognition of Doyle's
substance as the introduction to seeing that substance. Not that I really
buy the 3rd grade teacher bit as true to his character, but I understand the
point.) And then there's the remarks close to the end...

Cordy: You'll get through this, Doyle. Nice guys don't always finish last.
Doyle: You think I'm a nice guy?
Cordy: I think it, I say it. That's my way.

Clever line - and I think suggestive of character development for Cordelia.

> A few funny bits
> include the vampire's assessment of the neighborhood, Pierce
> immediately running away without even a token attempt at valor (and
> Cordelia's line about it afterward), and best of all, Doyle
> reenacting the fight to himself.

Oh, yeah. Funniest moment in the episode to me. I also like Cordelia's
expression while watching him.

> Just as that story's winding down, we meet Doyle's
> soon-to-be-divorced wife (and get his full name; I can see why he'd
> ditch "Francis," but "Allan" is perfectly fine...), and start
> examining the less than unsavory parts of his past ("and you're just
> about to tell me he ran [a soup kitchen], aren't you?" "He was just a
> volunteer"). There're some interesting bits amongst that,
> particularly the idea of suddenly discovering that you're half-demon
> when you're twenty-one and thinking about kids yourself. Also
> Harry's explanation that she freaked out "at first" but then got
> interested in demonology puts an interesting spin on things. Families
> of alien species who live among us, everywhere, and don't follow most
> of their old traditions anymore is a fun premise, which I tend to enjoy
> seeing (it's Fantasy Stock Plot #14,923, so we don't get it as
> often as some of the more popular ones).

Well, there's the Coneheads. They're from France.

> The thing is, though, the episode still moves so slowly. It's all
> about long reams of expository dialogue the likes of which ME shows
> generally try to avoid, long speeches about the past that tell rather
> than show. Meanwhile, the banter and storyline in between the
> revelations is pretty damn idle. There's not a huge amount happening
> here, between the long pans over locales and the long pans over people
> at parties, partying.

It hits me slightly different. It didn't feel slow to me. Actually the
show progressed really comfortably for me. One of the easiest watching
exercises I've had in a while. But there sure doesn't seem to be much there
there. I suspect this episode has an anonymous future.

> Fortunately the show doesn't drag everything
> out forever; in the hands of a lesser episode, Doyle's realization
> that Harry left him, not the demon, wouldn't happen until the end.

That's probably because they had another breakthrough of a sort in mind for
the end. Doyle fought in demon face - presumably representing a kind of
personal acceptance of his demon aspect. We'll see if this leads anywhere,
but first impression to me is that it was intended to be the big personal
development of the episode.

> A cute moment: Doyle decides to stop drinking, or at least lighten up
> on it a little. A minute later, that's forgotten.
>
> There are multiple scares about Richard and his demon family being more
> evil than they actually are. The initial tease is fun, with Angel
> jumping to the obvious but wrong monster-movie conclusion when he sees
> demon-Richard brandishing a knife. This leads to hope that just once,
> to be different, the irritating suspicious demon guy might not actually
> be up to anything too unpleasant. Then things take a more predictable
> route, albeit with a joke I really liked despite its dumbness: "...
> darts, then we have the ritual eating of the first husband's brains,
> and then charades." "Wait! What was that?... *Charades*?" "Yeah, I
> don't know about that."

But I didn't see anybody play darts. I was disappointed.

> Actually, this episode is full of TIRSBILA
> moments that move the plot along, between that and "well, they're
> certainly not going to eat your ex-husband's brain! Or something."

I liked the follow-up.

Harry: I'm only going to ask you this once, Richard, and I expect a straight
answer: were you or were you not intending to eat my ex-husband's brains?

How many shows get to have a line like that?

> Knowing about the ritual gives a sense of direction to the rest of the
> episode, but then we have to spend twenty minutes watching the
> characters slowly figure out what we already know. I don't know how
> Angel expects Harry to memorize the foreign phrase after one hearing,
> but there ya go.
>
> There are a lot of obvious jokes in the intended brain-eating scene,
> and it generally goes on too long, but nothing that I'd call
> particularly painful to watch.
>
> The ultimate conflict necessitates a barroom brawl and a falling out,
> but not a fight to the death. Some people's ways are not Our ways,
> so the demon family is able to continue playing the multiculturalist
> card to the end. Hiding it from the prospective bride is the part that
> wasn't so smart, especially given her complaints about her last
> husband. Although a bit unsubtle, this is kind of a cool take on the
> topic of what is and isn't expected of immigrants to the melting-pot
> countries in terms of assimilation. On certain fronts, like the ones
> that involve ritual human sacrifices, even the liberals among us may
> have to demand absolute conformity. Feel free to list your own
> real-world examples. And those who are big on reflecting things onto
> the heroes, feel free to discuss how this relates to the experiences of
> a half-demon who's rather ashamed of that half, or to a vampire
> who's intentionally set himself apart from both vampirism and the
> normal human world (think of "Into The Dark").

I'm sorry, but I didn't much care for the moment. I thought it was a cheap
joke. My turn in the humor challenged light.

> I'm glad to see that we're probably not going to be stuck with
> Doyle pining after Cordelia all year with no further development. The
> ending scene has her giving him a pep talk that's, well, exactly what
> you'd expect from her, neither unrealistically well thought out nor
> excessively insulting. There's a suggestion that we might actually
> see the crush get reversed, though it's still not clear whether her
> affection for Doyle can run in those directions.

Something. Anything. I'm getting used to Doyle now, but I'm still not
excited by the character. He looks like he'd be hard to kiss in demon face
though. (Maybe there's some humor to be found in that.)

> I like the idea of Angel being the default person that Cordelia bounces
> all her problems off while talking them through. I guess he's
> partially filling her gay-friend niche, minus the shopping?
>
> Harry's probably served her purpose; I don't really see any need
> for her to appear again.
>
> Could Carpenter more obviously be thirty-ish rather than twenty-ish?
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - The ones mentioned above, plus "who wants a wife whose knees only
> bend one way?"
>
> I've already mentioned that Mrs. Quality has been close to drifting
> away from the series for the last few episodes, ultimately because it
> simply doesn't excite her that much, the way BTVS does. I think TBP
> is a step in the right direction after RWAV and S&S, but it's still
> ultimately just... not that exciting. This show badly needs some life.
> Hopefully they'll knock us dead with whatever they're building
> towards with all those visions of Buffy.

I liked how they used the photograph of Buffy at the start to let Doyle
recognize her in the ending vision.

> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Entertaining in a disposable way,
>
> AOQ rating: Decent

Yeah, I guess that's where I end up. I feel like there's supposed to be
more here. It looks like both Cordy and Doyle made some kind of significant
development. And the episode was easy on the eyes. And I was amused at how
paternal Angel was. (Not just with the date. It was pretty strong in the
subsequent conversation with Cordy when she's telling him about Doyle having
substance. Angel looked so proud of Cordy that I blurted out a laugh at
that.)

OBS

[Opus the Penguin]

Don Sample (dsa...@synapse.net) wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
>> episodes in these review threads
>>
>>
>> ANGEL
>> Season One, Episode 7: "The Bachelor Party"
>> (or "Braaaaaains!")
>> Writer: Tracey Stern
>> Director: David Straiton
>>
>
> And we get another of Joss's Hat Trick actors. "Richard" was the
> demon Ken in "Anne" and the Fed agent Dobson in "Serenity (the
> Episode)."
>

I think this is the best of the hat tricks. Three memorable
characters with decent amounts of screen time. You don't have to be
pointed to some brief appearance in one of the three shows. You
remember him from each of them.

--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet

[kenm47]

I really did not care for this one. It was the start of an "Angel"
viewpoint that went way past Willie's Bar in BtVS. "Everybody" in LA
knows about demons - when convenient to the plot, not just the demon
hunters, and not just Wolfram & Hart.

It also went further into oh "poor misunderstood demons" in a way I
just could never get behind. What had been hinted at became blatant.
The show was turning a good portion of the Buffy-verse into Charmed.

A "professional" demon anthropologist? Bah! Humbug!

I'll go with Weak.

Ken (Brooklyn)

[kenm47]

He also recently on Gray's Anatomy IIRC (or was it House?) played the
more femme half of a homosexual pair of parents.

Ken (Brooklyn)

[George W Harris]

On 25 Apr 2006 04:19:42 GMT, Opus the Penguin
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not least because he spends most of his time in
each one without latex all over his face.
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k

[eli...@gmail.com]

> Cordy: I think it, I say it. That's my way.

And we know this is true, thanks to 'Earshot'! :)

[Arbitrar Of Quality]

eli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Different. Excellent in its own way. You'll see.

You people have pretty much convinced me to give the show two full
seaons to hook me. So (assuming I still feel potentially interested
but not so thrilled after S1), I may know exactly who to thank or curse
for this investment...

-AOQ

[eli...@gmail.com]

>You people have pretty much convinced me to give the show two full
>seaons to hook me.

Yay! And actually I suspect you'll be hooked by the end of S1... it
goes out on a _much_ stronger note than these early episodes would make
you believe.

[Arbitrar Of Quality]

kenm47 wrote:
> I really did not care for this one. It was the start of an "Angel"
> viewpoint that went way past Willie's Bar in BtVS. "Everybody" in LA
> knows about demons - when convenient to the plot, not just the demon
> hunters, and not just Wolfram & Hart.
>
> It also went further into oh "poor misunderstood demons" in a way I
> just could never get behind. What had been hinted at became blatant.
> The show was turning a good portion of the Buffy-verse into Charmed.

I've always felt that BTVS was less clear about where the many other
kinds of demons fall into the spectrum of morality than it was with
vampires.

In any case, the notion of demons as "people" seems like it'll be a
part of ATS, like it or not. There's a lot going on beneath the
surface in the mess that is LA.

-AOQ

[kenm47]

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> kenm47 wrote:
> > I really did not care for this one. It was the start of an "Angel"
> > viewpoint that went way past Willie's Bar in BtVS. "Everybody" in LA
> > knows about demons - when convenient to the plot, not just the demon
> > hunters, and not just Wolfram & Hart.
> >
> > It also went further into oh "poor misunderstood demons" in a way I
> > just could never get behind. What had been hinted at became blatant.
> > The show was turning a good portion of the Buffy-verse into Charmed.
>
> I've always felt that BTVS was less clear about where the many other
> kinds of demons fall into the spectrum of morality than it was with
> vampires.

Agreed. But up to this point, the only, AFAIK, "good" demons we saw
were Whistler and half breed Doyle. Maybe there were others I've
forgotten? Anya doesn't count because she's human now.

I'm having a hard time recalling other "good" ones. Suddenly we have
this underclass of passing demons and professionals (where do you get
that license?) who know about them? And marry them?

And, of course, Wolfram & Hart, but they just come across as evil
humans allied witrh the dark side for profit and personal power
(lawyers after all, not unlike the frat boys in Reptile Boy). If
limited to W&H would have been easier for me to swallow.

>
> In any case, the notion of demons as "people" seems like it'll be a
> part of ATS, like it or not. There's a lot going on beneath the
> surface in the mess that is LA.
>
> -AOQ

No comment on what the future holds.

Ken (Brooklyn)

[Sam]

kenm47 wrote:
>
> Agreed. But up to this point, the only, AFAIK, "good" demons we saw
> were Whistler and half breed Doyle. Maybe there were others I've
> forgotten? Anya doesn't count because she's human now.
>
> I'm having a hard time recalling other "good" ones. Suddenly we have
> this underclass of passing demons and professionals (where do you get
> that license?) who know about them? And marry them?
>

But they're not good. They're just... assimilated. They've adjusted to
dominant human culture and acclimated and they seem just about normal.
You can have a conversation with them. But at the end of the day, if
Uncle Bobby suggests eating some poor schmuck's brains, they don't
actually have a problem with it. Because they're still demons.

People complain about "good" demons on Angel, but I really think it's
more complicated than that. The number of "good" demons we come across
is very, very tiny. We just come across a lot of not particularly
scary, person-like demons.

They're like that one demon in season three of Buffy who tried to sell
the Books of Ascension to the heroes. He wasn't good. He was,
presumably, evil. He was just evil in a very little, very
understandable sort of way.

(Granted, there's also the matter of crossbreeding. As Doyle shows, mix
enough human blood and you're basically dealing with a human with some
lumpy bits or horns.)

--Sam

[Sam]

I think you'll like it. Season 2 is what really hooked me on the show.

--Sam

[Arbitrar Of Quality]

Sam wrote:
> kenm47 wrote:
> >
> > Agreed. But up to this point, the only, AFAIK, "good" demons we saw
> > were Whistler and half breed Doyle. Maybe there were others I've
> > forgotten? Anya doesn't count because she's human now.
> >
> > I'm having a hard time recalling other "good" ones. Suddenly we have
> > this underclass of passing demons and professionals (where do you get
> > that license?) who know about them? And marry them?
> >
>
> But they're not good. They're just... assimilated. They've adjusted to
> dominant human culture and acclimated and they seem just about normal.
> You can have a conversation with them. But at the end of the day, if
> Uncle Bobby suggests eating some poor schmuck's brains, they don't
> actually have a problem with it. Because they're still demons.
>
> People complain about "good" demons on Angel, but I really think it's
> more complicated than that. The number of "good" demons we come across
> is very, very tiny. We just come across a lot of not particularly
> scary, person-like demons.
>
> They're like that one demon in season three of Buffy who tried to sell
> the Books of Ascension to the heroes. He wasn't good. He was,
> presumably, evil. He was just evil in a very little, very
> understandable sort of way.

The other thing for me is that "demons" aren't homogenous. There are
many, many species, each of which may have embraced (for either
biological or cultural reasons) a different amount of evilness and a
different amount of the local scene.

And the Powers That Be seem to use demons too, although I won't talk
much about the PTB story since I have no clue where, if anywhere, it's
going yet.

-AOQ

[Xande...@gmail.com]

I'd have to go with "better." I loved Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but
looking back on the shows, it's always seemed to me that Buffy was the
necessary creation to start off the excellence that was Angel. I'm not
sure if I'm saying that right, but it makes perfect sense in my head.

BTW, Elisi, I just got back into town last night and haven't had a
chance to email you back. Thank you for all those suggestions. I'm
going to give 'em a shot.

[Sam]

Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> The other thing for me is that "demons" aren't homogenous. There are
> many, many species, each of which may have embraced (for either
> biological or cultural reasons) a different amount of evilness and a
> different amount of the local scene.
>

It is worth remembering, though, that there are certainly commonalities
that can be drawn between most, if not all, demons. Going just by what
you've seen so far by this point, we know that all the different
varieties of demon on Earth have common ancestry -- they're all
descended from the Old Ones, the godlike primordial monstrosities that
ruled the Earth before mankind. The Old Ones were Evil. When they left,
they left behind some lesser offspring. That offspring has bred with
mortal animals for practically ever, resulting in modern demons.

Being descended from the Old Ones seems, pretty much across the board,
to result in the offspring being evil. But it also seems like, the more
they interbreed with mortals and become less and less purely demonic,
the more they move from Evil to just evil, or even, in a limited number
of cases, human enough to go either way.

> And the Powers That Be seem to use demons too, although I won't talk
> much about the PTB story since I have no clue where, if anywhere, it's
> going yet.
>

Yep.

--Sam

[eli...@gmail.com]

I love both shows, but in different ways. I don't think I could choose.

And I hope you enjoy the fics. And I've actually just thought of
another couple that I'll e-mail you about. (Funny ones!)