AOQ Review 5-13: "Blood Ties"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Five, Episode 13: "Blood Ties"
(or "Dawning realizations")
Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
Director: Michael Gershman
It really was about time that the others learned the truth about the
new kid, huh? And just in time for a Dawn-centric episode too, huh?
Meanwhile, Glory is sauntering around and beating people up. I was
considering nicknaming her lackey "Garak" after the Trek character,
for his vocal inflections, but he's not really interesting enough for
that.
Bad things happening around Buffy's birthday would naturally become a
recurring joke, and it's one I get a kick out of. Once again, at
least, we can say that the events of BT would've happened sooner or
later anyway. The first act, like most of the episode, is really more
about her sister and how people relate to her. We get a few sides of
Dawn in a few nicely done scenes, starting with her ramble about
what's going on at school (where does Dawn go to school? Is it
Hellmouth-affected? Inquiring minds want to know). She's got a nice
teen (well, teen-with-Whedonspeak) flippance about the world ("I just
think you're getting soft in your advanced age"). Her present to
Buffy shows that a special occasion is enough to bring out the strong
feelings they have for each other; good work by both actors here. On
the other hand, her correct conviction that people are talking about
her and trying to shelter her from everything causes an outburst
that's probably one of many. It'd be so frustrating to be her, so
it's hard not to identify with the action she takes to try to figure
things out.
That's the trigger for the plot of this one, which starts with her
slipping out of the house in frustration, again. Seems like a long way
to jump for a non-Slayer. Anyway, based on the camera work I knew she
was about to run into Spike. That's a great little interchange, as
they play the who's-more-pathetic game, before he decides to watch
out for her, which is certainly an interesting choice for him. I may
have to call for more banter between the two characters in the future.
On to Dawn finding out the truth about the key: on the one hand, it was
the right time for it to happen. A minor complaint about the
execution, though, is that the flashbacks to previous episodes feel
like a little much. We get it. Especially since she's just about to
get everything spelled out anyway.
As a young actor, Trachtenberg has the weight of an episode resting on
her more than even with "Real Me," since she has to convey some
strong emotion here. Some of her speeches don't come off so well,
but I think she does a good job with the most important emotional
moments, particularly the sense of betrayal on lines like "you're
not my mother." Her world is upset here, so it's not unreasonable
that some of the things Buffy has discovered over the year - "Mom
and I know what we feel. I know I care about you. I know that I worry
about you," - are initially swatted away. I wouldn't expect Dawn
to believe that, at least not right away. Also, can I say enough good
things about the image of Dawn slicing into herself with that big
knife, or just not even try?
Consequently, the littlest Summers is involved in all kinds of frantic
and often irrational behavior. Going to the people who can see her for
what she is is actually a pretty good idea. Letting Ben in on
everything is probably less so, and dancing around the issue while
pumping Glory for information is not wise. None of this bothers me,
given the situation. Dawn (in her mind) alone and against the world
kinda calls back to the series' early portrayal of adolescence.
I enjoyed the Buffy/Spike confrontation this week, because for once,
Buffy's almost totally in the wrong, and she's honest enough with
herself that it doesn't take much to make her see that. Secrets like
the Dawn thing will come out eventually, especially on this show.
Later we see her casually include Big Bad as part of the Scoobie Gang
seemingly without thinking much of it, and actually going so far as to
apologize to him. This follows up on the ending of "Fool For Love"
(and other scenes as we were discussing in the CP thread). Instead of
the loud hate and loud obsession, they're taking a detour and somehow
starting to develop something resembling camaraderie and friendship, or
the nearest evil-demon equivalent. That story is working well for me.
Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory thing
is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week ago.
Weren't they in the same scene back in "Family?" (Yeah, I know
they technically weren't on screen at the same moment, but I can't
see how the positioning would work if they weren't separate people.)
The fight at the end is a nice one, though, and a good display of
unplanned teamwork from the gang; Buffy supplies the fearlessness and
Protector thing, as to a degree does Spike, Giles and Xander act as a
two-pronged distraction, and Willow and Tara handle the magicking.
"Teleportation spell. Still working out the kinks. "Where'd you
send her?" "Don't know. That's one of the kinks." "Oh,
sh-" I like it as an "up" moment to end the episode on,
especially paired with Dawn starting to believe that she's among
family. Naturally, I'd be happy if this were the end of Glory, but I
suspect that the law that characters should be presumed alive until
proven otherwise applies doubly to deities.
Other thoughts:
The conversation about boyfriend-free birthdays made me chuckle.
Speaking of birthday parties, Anya seems to need one badly.
Dawn really has mastered the art of selective eavesdropping, always
managing to hear the worst parts of any conversation. I'm getting a
little tired of that.
I remember liking the scene composition and music during the swingset
flashback.
"Let's search everywhere in town except for one of the places
Dawn's spent the most time recently, so then we can all conveniently
arrive together at the last minute!"
Are we meant to believe that Dawn didn't "get" Ben turning into
Glory, even after discussing it a little with the latter? Or is she
just trying to protect the former? Both possibilities seem quite
stupid.
Our goddess from the bitch dimension is kinda tolerable again this
week, and I have to give credit for "I kinda wanna hear me talking
right now."
We've been over this point a few times already, but now that we're
into the second half, I think it's safe to proclaim family, and
specifically family that's made rather than born into, as the main
theme of Season Five.
So...
One-sentence summary: Strong stuff almost all around, with a few
hiccups.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Five so far:
1) "Buffy Vs. Dracula" - Good
2) "Real Me" - Decent
3) "The Replacement" - Good
4) "Out Of My Mind" - Weak
5) "No Place Like Home" - Decent
6) "Family" - Excellent
7) "Fool For Love" - Excellent
8) "Shadow" - Good
9) "Listening To Fear" - Decent
10) "Into The Woods" - Good
11) "Triangle" - Decent
12) "Checkpoint" - Decent
13) "Blood Ties" - Good]
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 13: "Blood Ties"
> (or "Dawning realizations")
> Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
> Director: Michael Gershman
>
> It really was about time that the others learned the truth about the
> new kid, huh? And just in time for a Dawn-centric episode too, huh?
Best way to keep a secret, is not tell people about it. Letting the
others in on the secret is what gives Dawn the extra impetus to go
digging for why everyone's suddenly acting so weird, and learning it for
herself.
> We get a few sides of
> Dawn in a few nicely done scenes, starting with her ramble about
> what's going on at school.
One side that I really noticed for the first time, when she was leaving
Willow and Tara doing their alarm spell, and walking into the Magic Box
was her backside. This is when I realized that I was a dirty old man,
admiring MT's ass.
> That's the trigger for the plot of this one, which starts with her
> slipping out of the house in frustration, again. Seems like a long way
> to jump for a non-Slayer.
She climbed down a trellis.
> Anyway, based on the camera work I knew she
> was about to run into Spike. That's a great little interchange, as
> they play the who's-more-pathetic game, before he decides to watch
> out for her, which is certainly an interesting choice for him.
Brainwashed.
> Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory thing
> is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week ago.
> Weren't they in the same scene back in "Family?" (Yeah, I know
> they technically weren't on screen at the same moment, but I can't
> see how the positioning would work if they weren't separate people.)
The way it's set up, he/she could have done it. Especially given
Glory's abilities.
> "Let's search everywhere in town except for one of the places
> Dawn's spent the most time recently, so then we can all conveniently
> arrive together at the last minute!"
When looking for a runaway, the hospital really isn't high on the list
of places that you *want* to find her.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Apteryx
news:1151648910....@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> recurring joke, and it's one I get a kick out of. Once again, at
> least, we can say that the events of BT would've happened sooner or
> later anyway. The first act, like most of the episode, is really more
> about her sister and how people relate to her. We get a few sides of
> Dawn in a few nicely done scenes, starting with her ramble about
> what's going on at school (where does Dawn go to school? Is it
> Hellmouth-affected? Inquiring minds want to know). She's got a nice
> teen (well, teen-with-Whedonspeak) flippance about the world ("I just
> think you're getting soft in your advanced age"). Her present to
> Buffy shows that a special occasion is enough to bring out the strong
> feelings they have for each other; good work by both actors here. On
> the other hand, her correct conviction that people are talking about
> her and trying to shelter her from everything causes an outburst
> that's probably one of many. It'd be so frustrating to be her, so
> it's hard not to identify with the action she takes to try to figure
> things out.
I think it's probably around this point that her frustrations become
frustrating for many viewers. Mixed feelings on that myself, but certainly
there are times in this episode where she is played a bit OTT, even given
the revelations she uncovers.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory thing
> is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week ago.
> Weren't they in the same scene back in "Family?" (Yeah, I know
> they technically weren't on screen at the same moment, but I can't
> see how the positioning would work if they weren't separate people.)
> The fight at the end is a nice one, though, and a good display of
> unplanned teamwork from the gang; Buffy supplies the fearlessness and
> Protector thing, as to a degree does Spike, Giles and Xander act as a
> two-pronged distraction, and Willow and Tara handle the magicking.
> "Teleportation spell. Still working out the kinks. "Where'd you
> send her?" "Don't know. That's one of the kinks." "Oh,
> sh-"
Its like they took note of the things I dislike about the use of magic in
fiction and wrote a scene to incorporporate them. But in fact its not my
most disliked magical moment. The difficulty of the spell (the fact it
couldn't have worked without Buffy and the boys distracting Glory while the
witches chanted) and the after effects on Willow who indicates she won't be
doing that again in a hurry somewhat ameliorate the ho-hum effect of seeing
the writers writing the gang into trouble and writing them out of it again
with a magic spell. And a lot can be forgiven for that "Oh sh-" moment.
>
> Dawn really has mastered the art of selective eavesdropping, always
> managing to hear the worst parts of any conversation. I'm getting a
> little tired of that.
Mm
>
> Are we meant to believe that Dawn didn't "get" Ben turning into
> Glory, even after discussing it a little with the latter? Or is she
> just trying to protect the former? Both possibilities seem quite
> stupid.
Not necessarily ...
> We've been over this point a few times already, but now that we're
> into the second half, I think it's safe to proclaim family, and
> specifically family that's made rather than born into, as the main
> theme of Season Five.
Well, it certainly was an early theme of season 5. But to say its still safe
to proclaim it as the main theme, you'd have to say that the title of this
episode is a different metahor than what it usually is is referring to, ties
of blood between people who are born into the same family. And likewise,
you'd have to interpret Buffy's "It's Summer's blood" as part of that same
metaphor, that she's telling Dawn she accepts her as her sister even though
there aren't really blood ties in the traditional sense. Because of course
if you take her literally (or at least in sense of the traditional "blood
relative" as a metaphor for people genetically related) then the show has
shifted back towards aknowledging the primacy of genetically related family.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Strong stuff almost all around, with a few
> hiccups.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
There seem to me to be rather more hiccups and less strong stuff. I'd only
call it Decent. It's my 118th favourite BtVS episode, 17th best in season 5
--
Apteryx
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week ago.
> Weren't they in the same scene back in "Family?" (Yeah, I know
> they technically weren't on screen at the same moment, but I can't
> see how the positioning would work if they weren't separate people.)
we know ben and glory are somehow related
but we still havent worked how
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Michael Ikeda
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
> review threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 13: "Blood Ties"
> (or "Dawning realizations")
> Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
> Director: Michael Gershman
>
> It really was about time that the others learned the truth about
> the new kid, huh?
Like the way it played out. Buffy first going into defensive mode
then conceding the point.
> (where does Dawn go to school? Is it Hellmouth-affected?
> Inquiring minds want to know).
It's in Sunnydale. Of course it's Hellmouth-affected.
>
> That's the trigger for the plot of this one, which starts with
> her slipping out of the house in frustration, again. Seems like
> a long way to jump for a non-Slayer.
Climbed, not jumped. Although Buffy, at least, should probably be
more alert to the possibility of Dawn climbing out of the window...
> Consequently, the littlest Summers is involved in all kinds of
> frantic and often irrational behavior. Going to the people who
> can see her for what she is is actually a pretty good idea.
> Letting Ben in on everything is probably less so, and dancing
> around the issue while pumping Glory for information is not
> wise.
Although given that Glory WANTS to talk about the Key, it's
difficult for Dawn to be talking about anything else.
> Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory
> thing is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a
> week ago. Weren't they in the same scene back in "Family?"
Not exactly. The Lei-Ach demon is trying to sneak up on Ben, when
he gets ambushed by Glory. The switchover in "Family" does seem to
have occured rather quickly, although perhaps it was already
starting to happen when Ben entered the locker room.
Incidentally, I see that you have now posted the review for
"Crush". Which means that we are now exactly at the half-way point
of the reviews (254 combined episodes for Angel and Buffy, 127
reviews posted).
> Are we meant to believe that Dawn didn't "get" Ben turning into
> Glory, even after discussing it a little with the latter? Or is
> she just trying to protect the former? Both possibilities seem
> quite stupid.
Patience is a virtue. :)
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
:
:Are we meant to believe that Dawn didn't "get" Ben turning into
:Glory, even after discussing it a little with the latter? Or is she
:just trying to protect the former? Both possibilities seem quite
:stupid.
That is puzzling, isn't it?
--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
BTR1701
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Are we meant to believe that Dawn didn't "get" Ben turning into
> Glory, even after discussing it a little with the latter? Or is she
> just trying to protect the former? Both possibilities seem quite
> stupid.
That does seem to be a mystery.
vague disclaimer
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Are you implying what I think you are implying?
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
vague disclaimer <l64o...@dea.spamcon.org> wrote:
that ben and glory are related?
Rowan Hawthorn
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 13: "Blood Ties"
> (or "Dawning realizations")
> Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
> Director: Michael Gershman
>
> It really was about time that the others learned the truth about the
> new kid, huh? And just in time for a Dawn-centric episode too, huh?
>
Wasn't that a lucky coincidence, though?
> The fight at the end is a nice one, though, and a good display of
> unplanned teamwork from the gang; Buffy supplies the fearlessness and
> Protector thing, as to a degree does Spike, Giles and Xander act as a
> two-pronged distraction, and Willow and Tara handle the magicking.
> "Teleportation spell. Still working out the kinks. "Where'd you
> send her?" "Don't know. That's one of the kinks." "Oh,
> sh-"
GILES: That was an incredibly dangerous spell for an adept of your level.
WILLOW: (dazed, nose bleeding) Yep. Won’t be trying that one again soon.
> Dawn really has mastered the art of selective eavesdropping, always
> managing to hear the worst parts of any conversation. I'm getting a
> little tired of that.
On the flip side, people who eavesdrop a lot *do* tend to hear the worst
parts of any conversation. It's like some kind of karmic law or
something...
>
> Are we meant to believe that Dawn didn't "get" Ben turning into
> Glory, even after discussing it a little with the latter? Or is she
> just trying to protect the former? Both possibilities seem quite
> stupid.
What? Wait a minute - Ben turned into Glory? How did I miss that? Hm.
Gonna have to go back and watch this episode again...
>
> Our goddess from the bitch dimension is kinda tolerable
Operative word here for me being, "kinda."
> One-sentence summary: Strong stuff almost all around, with a few
> hiccups.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
Yeah, I can go along with that.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
One Bit Shy
news:1151648910....@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 13: "Blood Ties"
> Meanwhile, Glory is sauntering around and beating people up. I was
> considering nicknaming her lackey "Garak" after the Trek character,
> for his vocal inflections, but he's not really interesting enough for
> that.
Garak is a rather different character. I really enjoy Jinx. For all the
fawning he is compelled to do as Glory's minion, he's still quite capable of
getting a point across with some style.
Jinx: You really think *he* is going to help you? I fear your faith is
gravely misplaced.
Whereupon the knights of hack and slash promptly shred the other minions.
Yet, Jinx is proven right in the end (of this fight at least) when the god
that actually intercedes is not theirs.
Glory: Never send a minion to do a god's work.
(Cute line.) But my favorite Jinx moment this episode is when he lays out
the cold facts to Ben, yet must deflate it with more over the top praise at
the mere mention of Glory's name. "Your fate is directly linked to her
magnificently-scented Glorificus."
> She's got a nice
> teen (well, teen-with-Whedonspeak) flippance about the world ("I just
> think you're getting soft in your advanced age"). Her present to
> Buffy shows that a special occasion is enough to bring out the strong
> feelings they have for each other; good work by both actors here. On
> the other hand, her correct conviction that people are talking about
> her and trying to shelter her from everything causes an outburst
> that's probably one of many. It'd be so frustrating to be her, so
> it's hard not to identify with the action she takes to try to figure
> things out.
Poor Xander, who *really* wasn't talking about her then. But the vibe was
established no matter how much he protests. I got a kick out of Dawn's
parting line. "Fine. I'm just gonna go to bed. That way I won't accidentally
get exposed to, like, words."
One little thing. Did you notice wha was written on the shirt Dawn was
wearing earlier? "Little Miss Drama"
> Anyway, based on the camera work I knew she
> was about to run into Spike. That's a great little interchange, as
> they play the who's-more-pathetic game, before he decides to watch
> out for her,
"Who's bad now?"
> which is certainly an interesting choice for him.
Yeah, it is. But I think he was struggling to work out what to do until
Dawn sucked him in with the clincher, "You wanna come steal some stuff?"
Some things Spike just can't resist. (And you'll note that he did palm a
crystal or something at the Magic Box.)
> I may
> have to call for more banter between the two characters in the future.
> On to Dawn finding out the truth about the key: on the one hand, it was
> the right time for it to happen. A minor complaint about the
> execution, though, is that the flashbacks to previous episodes feel
> like a little much. We get it. Especially since she's just about to
> get everything spelled out anyway.
Well, yeah, we got it a long time ago. Isn't the idea to show the
progression of realization welling up in Dawn?
> As a young actor, Trachtenberg has the weight of an episode resting on
> her more than even with "Real Me," since she has to convey some
> strong emotion here. Some of her speeches don't come off so well,
> but I think she does a good job with the most important emotional
> moments, particularly the sense of betrayal on lines like "you're
> not my mother." Her world is upset here, so it's not unreasonable
> that some of the things Buffy has discovered over the year - "Mom
> and I know what we feel. I know I care about you. I know that I worry
> about you," - are initially swatted away. I wouldn't expect Dawn
> to believe that, at least not right away. Also, can I say enough good
> things about the image of Dawn slicing into herself with that big
> knife, or just not even try?
MT's performance throughout the season thus far has mainly been very good,
sometimes outstanding. And there's much good here too. Unfortunately, IMO,
this episode also gives us a pretty hefty dose of a grating quality to her
voice. She doesn't exactly have a mellifluous tone.
> Consequently, the littlest Summers is involved in all kinds of frantic
> and often irrational behavior. Going to the people who can see her for
> what she is is actually a pretty good idea. Letting Ben in on
> everything is probably less so, and dancing around the issue while
> pumping Glory for information is not wise.
A dangerous game, yes, but it does buy her time. And, well, how could she
resist? Glory has the poop on the Key.
> I enjoyed the Buffy/Spike confrontation this week, because for once,
> Buffy's almost totally in the wrong, and she's honest enough with
> herself that it doesn't take much to make her see that. Secrets like
> the Dawn thing will come out eventually, especially on this show.
> Later we see her casually include Big Bad as part of the Scoobie Gang
> seemingly without thinking much of it, and actually going so far as to
> apologize to him. This follows up on the ending of "Fool For Love"
> (and other scenes as we were discussing in the CP thread). Instead of
> the loud hate and loud obsession, they're taking a detour and somehow
> starting to develop something resembling camaraderie and friendship, or
> the nearest evil-demon equivalent. That story is working well for me.
This is a high point for this aspect. (Note that in the Glory fight, Spike
doesn't just join in, he pairs with Buffy, holding Glory so that Buffy can
beat on her.) But they're still not on the same page. Buffy appears to be
doing this unconsciously. Instinctive responses to circumstances that
naturally lead this direction. Meanwhile, Spike is still stalking her.
Showing up at the birthday party with a box of candy (presumably the same
battered box he had previously beaten the mannequin with). Still, some
little things are sinking in, like how he feels bad about hurting Buffy with
his accusation that it's her fault that Dawn found out like she did.
> Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory thing
> is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week ago.
> Weren't they in the same scene back in "Family?" (Yeah, I know
> they technically weren't on screen at the same moment, but I can't
> see how the positioning would work if they weren't separate people.)
We've seen a couple times now that Glory can literally see what's happening
behind her. Likely that means a broad awareness of her physical
surroundings beyond we mere mortals. She also demonstrates in this episode
the ability to move with exceptional speed when she chooses - as in her
sudden appearance next to Dawn after standing a distance away moments
earlier. That should be enough to justify her earlier actions that you
reference. She's a god.
> The fight at the end is a nice one, though, and a good display of
> unplanned teamwork from the gang; Buffy supplies the fearlessness and
> Protector thing, as to a degree does Spike, Giles and Xander act as a
> two-pronged distraction, and Willow and Tara handle the magicking.
I always laugh at Xander creeping up with the tire iron.
> "Teleportation spell. Still working out the kinks. "Where'd you
> send her?" "Don't know. That's one of the kinks." "Oh,
> sh-" I like it as an "up" moment to end the episode on,
> especially paired with Dawn starting to believe that she's among
> family. Naturally, I'd be happy if this were the end of Glory, but I
> suspect that the law that characters should be presumed alive until
> proven otherwise applies doubly to deities.
I think they'd be singing Ding, dong, the witch is dead if she really were.
This fight scene always gets me. It's kind of odd in a way, because the
depiction is actually kind of cheesey. Even clunky Definitely not a high
budget movie fight. But the situational elements really work. Buffy taking
the tire iron for example. And particularly Willow and Tara's spell work.
They're completely vulnerable standing there working their mojo and probably
terrified while doing it. Out there on the edge as it were. Willow's sharp
clap makes me jump, as does her falling down in pain.
It's the first fighting success they've had against Glory, but clearly a
tightrope walk they won't be able to repeat. Glory almost had the lot of
them there.
> Other thoughts:
> The conversation about boyfriend-free birthdays made me chuckle.
> Speaking of birthday parties, Anya seems to need one badly.
I think Willow might too. Note that the party scene starts with Willow
blowing soap bubbles, and she's the only one wearing a party hat. Later
she's alone cutting the cake. I think she really wants some kind of blow
out, but nobody cooperates with her.
> Are we meant to believe that Dawn didn't "get" Ben turning into
> Glory, even after discussing it a little with the latter? Or is she
> just trying to protect the former? Both possibilities seem quite
> stupid.
What's stupid? I don't get it.
> Our goddess from the bitch dimension is kinda tolerable again this
> week, and I have to give credit for "I kinda wanna hear me talking
> right now."
Honest. It's a well realized character. Perhaps the revelation of godhood
explains her (and her minions) better. Do you remember, "I could crap a
better existence than this"? She meant it literally.
> We've been over this point a few times already, but now that we're
> into the second half, I think it's safe to proclaim family, and
> specifically family that's made rather than born into, as the main
> theme of Season Five.
Now why do I imagine you standing on a rug with a sign pointed at it saying,
"Pull!"? LOL! I'm mostly kidding. It's a fair observation that may very
well prove true in the end. But there is more than one theme this season,
so you don't have to give up the hunt quite yet.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Strong stuff almost all around, with a few
> hiccups.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
I think we've had too many ratings pretty close to each other here and in
AtS this season. Something's wrong.
But, yeah, Good is what I'd say too. I like the episode quite a bit.
Advances story, develops characters. a number of very good moments. (Like
the powerful Dawn cutting scene.) But still short of that extra special
quality to move it to Excellent.
OBS
vague disclaimer
Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What? Wait a minute - Ben turned into Glory?
Why does every keep saying that?
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <-5SdnSHKQI9...@giganews.com>,
> Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What? Wait a minute - Ben turned into Glory?
>
> Why does every keep saying that?
Saying what?
Elisi
Rowan Hawthorn wrote:
> vague disclaimer wrote:
> > In article <-5SdnSHKQI9...@giganews.com>,
> > Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What? Wait a minute - Ben turned into Glory?
> >
> > Why does every keep saying that?
>
> Saying what?
Dunno.
Don Sample
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
Crbcyr! Guvf jubyr pbairefngvba vf znwbeyl fcbvyrevfu. Ng guvf cbvag
jr qba'g xabj jul Qnja qvqa'g fnl nalguvat nobhg Ora naq Tybel. Fbzr
(cebonoyl zbfg) bs hf fhfcrpgrq, ohg gurer jnf n fvtavsvpnag cbffvovyvgl
gung gur rkcynangvba jnf gung Qnja jnf pbirevat sbe Ora, be fbzrguvat
yvxr gung.
Jnvg hagvy nsgre "Jrvtug bs gur Jbeyq" sbe nyy gur "Qb lbh zrna gb fnl
gung gurer'f fbzr pbaarpgvba orgjrra Ora naq Tybel" wbxrf.
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <1151691876.0...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
> "Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rowan Hawthorn wrote:
>>> vague disclaimer wrote:
>>>> In article <-5SdnSHKQI9...@giganews.com>,
>>>> Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What? Wait a minute - Ben turned into Glory?
>>>> Why does every keep saying that?
>>> Saying what?
>> Dunno.
>
> Crbcyr! Guvf jubyr pbairefngvba vf znwbeyl fcbvyrevfu. Ng guvf cbvag
> jr qba'g xabj jul Qnja qvqa'g fnl nalguvat nobhg Ora naq Tybel. Fbzr
> (cebonoyl zbfg) bs hf fhfcrpgrq, ohg gurer jnf n fvtavsvpnag cbffvovyvgl
> gung gur rkcynangvba jnf gung Qnja jnf pbirevat sbe Ora, be fbzrguvat
> yvxr gung.
>
> Jnvg hagvy nsgre "Jrvtug bs gur Jbeyq" sbe nyy gur "Qb lbh zrna gb fnl
> gung gurer'f fbzr pbaarpgvba orgjrra Ora naq Tybel" wbxrf.
>
Fbeel, lbh'er evtug. V unir gb xrrc erzvaqvat zlfrys gung NbD vf
fhccbfrqyl hafcbvyrq sbe zbfg bs guvf fghss. Gung Ora/Tybel evss vf
yvxr n sevttva' rnejbez, gubhtu, vg'f qnza arne na nhgbzngvp erfcbafr.
(Harmony) Watcher
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
news:12aakec...@news.supernews.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> MT's performance throughout the season thus far has mainly been very good,
> sometimes outstanding. And there's much good here too. Unfortunately,
IMO,
> this episode also gives us a pretty hefty dose of a grating quality to her
> voice. She doesn't exactly have a mellifluous tone.
>
>
abg zr, sebz guvf AT vairagrq vg abg fb ybat ntb.) :)
--
==Harmony Watcher==
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
a side note, I'd like to point out that AOQ has totally ruined my plans
for this whole year. Late last year I decided to stop re-watching Buffy
and Angel until late this summer, at which time I'd start watching both
series from the beginning with semi-fresh eyes. And I was actually
sticking to this regime pretty well (I couldn't help but watch a few eps),
until I started reading AOQ's reviews. Soon I was checking the DVDs on
certain points, and it wasn't much longer before I was watching half the
eps as AOQ reviewed them, and reading transcripts for the rest. Now I
won't be able to relive the Buffyverse with fresh eyes for at least
another year, if ever. It's all AOQ's fault, of course.
Anyway....
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Five, Episode 13: "Blood Ties"
> (or "Dawning realizations")
> Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
> Director: Michael Gershman
> It really was about time that the others learned the truth about the
> new kid, huh? And just in time for a Dawn-centric episode too, huh?
It was high time, drama-wise. Within the story, I'm not so sure.
Buffy's reasoning, that the gang deserved to know because they're risking
their lives, doesn't really hold up. While they may "deserve" to know, by
telling them, Buffy is putting *Dawn's* life at greater risk. The more
people who know the secret, the more people Glory can possibly capture and
torture it out of. However, at this point everyone knows the Key is
important, so Buffy and Giles can no longer keep the Key's identity secret
from the gang and expect any useful help from them.
I thought MT did a good to great job throughout the episode. Note that
one scene where totally loses it and shrieks at Buffy and Joyce "Get out,
get out, GET OUT!" In the past there have been a few Dawn-bashers here
who say that she "always" or "constantly" does this. Just for kicks, why
not count how many more times it happens and see how right they were?
> to believe that, at least not right away. Also, can I say enough good
> things about the image of Dawn slicing into herself with that big
> knife, or just not even try?
I don't think you can. Great image, and I like the way it hits us without
warning just as we're expecting another minute or two of conversation on
boyfriendlessness.
Speaking of that, BT makes a point of showing us Buffy feeling sad that
Riley didn't send her a birthday card. And in Checkpoint we see Buffy's
pained reaction when she finds a sweater Riley left behind. The Riley
relationship is not being minimized, let alone forgotten. (And apparently
Triangle was not intended to laugh it away.)
It's a little disappointing when Buffy tells Giles that Dawn's crisis is a
family matter. Giles IS family! Has she forgotten Tara's birthday
already? But it doesn't bother me at the end when Buffy makes such a big
deal of "Summers blood." At that point Dawn doesn't just need love, she
needs to be reassured of her very identity, and a major part of that is
being a sister and daughter. "You're not my real biological sister but I
love you like you were" is a fine sentiment but wouldn't have sounded
quite as comforting to Dawn at that moment.
> One-sentence summary: Strong stuff almost all around, with a few
> hiccups.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Yes, Good.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Arbitrar Of Quality
Apteryx wrote:
> Well, it certainly was an early theme of season 5. But to say its still safe
> to proclaim it as the main theme, you'd have to say that the title of this
> episode is a different metahor than what it usually is is referring to, ties
> of blood between people who are born into the same family. And likewise,
> you'd have to interpret Buffy's "It's Summer's blood" as part of that same
> metaphor, that she's telling Dawn she accepts her as her sister even though
> there aren't really blood ties in the traditional sense.
Fine. I interpret it that way.
> Because of course
> if you take her literally (or at least in sense of the traditional "blood
> relative" as a metaphor for people genetically related) then the show has
> shifted back towards aknowledging the primacy of genetically related family.
The context suggests otherwise to me.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Michael Ikeda wrote:
> Climbed, not jumped. Although Buffy, at least, should probably be
> more alert to the possibility of Dawn climbing out of the window...
Indeed.
> Incidentally, I see that you have now posted the review for
> "Crush". Which means that we are now exactly at the half-way point
> of the reviews (254 combined episodes for Angel and Buffy, 127
> reviews posted).
Let's hope the second half are as fun to watch and (hoopefully)
interesting to read as the first.
-AOQ
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>
>> The fight at the end is a nice one, though, and a good display of
>> unplanned teamwork from the gang; Buffy supplies the fearlessness and
>> Protector thing, as to a degree does Spike, Giles and Xander act as a
>> two-pronged distraction, and Willow and Tara handle the magicking.
>
> I always laugh at Xander creeping up with the tire iron.
I want to single out Xander for special praise here. He goes up against a
frickin' GOD ... not with a missile weapon, but up close ... armed only
with a blunt metal bar ... and as a tiny cherry on top, he's even using
his off hand because Olaf broke his other wrist! Now that's dedication.
Stephen Tempest
>Apteryx wrote:
>> Because of course
>> if you take her literally (or at least in sense of the traditional "blood
>> relative" as a metaphor for people genetically related) then the show has
>> shifted back towards aknowledging the primacy of genetically related family.
>
>The context suggests otherwise to me.
Of course, they can both be true. Valuing found family doesn't mean
you can't *also* value genetic family... Buffy's actions with Dawn
are very reminiscent of the old 'blood brothers' ceremony where people
cut their hands and put them together to literally share their blood.
(Of course, this was in the innocent pre-AIDS days...). Buffy's
acknowledging that whatever Dawn may have been originally, now she's
not just a friend or an person to protect, but her real,
flesh-and-blood sister.
Stephen
Eric Hunter
> Michael Ikeda wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, I see that you have now posted the review for
>> "Crush". Which means that we are now exactly at the half-way point
>> of the reviews (254 combined episodes for Angel and Buffy, 127
>> reviews posted).
>
> interesting to read as the first.
Given that you seem to be agreeing with OBS and me
about most of the more contentious issues that have
arisen, I'm reasonably certain that you will enjoy
the second half at least as much as the first.
Eric.
--
Opus the Penguin
> Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory thing
> is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week ago.
Wait a minute. Are you saying there's some kind of connection between
Ben and Glory?
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Arbitrar Of Quality
Opus the Penguin wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality (tsm...@wildmail.com) wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory thing
> > is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week ago.
>
> Wait a minute. Are you saying there's some kind of connection between
> Ben and Glory?
If it's possible to do so without spoilers, anyone want to explain the
origin of this joke?
-AOQ
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
You've kinda seen (and commented on) the first genesis of it, but it
can't be fully explained without going into spoiler territory.
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
:
Bad penguin! No herring!
*sigh*, no, it's not.
:
:-AOQ
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k
One Bit Shy
news:U5WdncPe_cDBxDXZ...@comcast.com...
Hey. Don't give AOQ ideas. We're bitter foes. Bitter I tell you.
OBS
Apteryx
news:1151877055.7...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
I interpret it that way too. But it's not a universally accepted
interpretation. BtVS is a show in which scraps of information are thrown out
from time to time in various disguises, so some would take Buffy's statement
that Dawn has "Summer's blood" as a factual statement indicating how the
monks may have made Dawn (even though Buffy has no basis for making any such
factual statement). So it seems to me that Buffy is here merely accepting
Dawn as her sister (bs pbhefr, vg jbhyq or n cvgl vs gur fubj yngre
nggrzcgrq gb unat nalguvat vzcbegnag bss guvf zrgncube Ohssl hfrf urer :) ).
But even that seems to me to make it an odd time to emphsise that the show
is here endorsing the idea of the constructed family that featured when
Buffy aknowleged Tara as family in "Family". An actual sister, including an
adopted sister, is actual family rather than constructed family in the
"Family" sense. Buffy certainly seems to be saying here that Dawn is her
actual sister, even though Dawn herself may have been er, constucted.
--
Apteryx
One Bit Shy
news:e8a58o$far$1...@nntp.aioe.org...
There's another deeper issue here. It's not just a question of Dawn's place
in the family - of any kind. It's whether Dawn is human period. Being a
real sister. Having real Summers blood. That establishes humanity. It's
not all metaphor. What did the monks really do? Did they create an
illusion to hide the key? Or did they actually create a sister? That
distinction matters to Dawn.
OBS
Apteryx
news:12ah842...@news.supernews.com...
Well, the monk in No Place Like Home told Buffy that Dawn was human
(although he did implicitly deny that she was Buffy's real sister). He's the
only one in a position to know to have spoken on the subject. Now, his
statement depends not only on his knowledge of the facts but also on his
definition of "human". If anyone has a definition of human that includes
being born (extended far enough to include Macduff), they won't accept as
human someone created as a 14 year old by a bunch of monks. But that has
never been Buffy's position (or mine). She seemed to accept Dawn as human
from the time she was told that. Now she also accepts her as her sister.
There is potential for confusion in speaking of metaphor here. Because even
if we speak of 2 sisters born to the same parents in the normal way as
"blood relatives", that is itself a metaphor. It derives from the medieval
concept that there was something unique in the blood that was shared between
relatives. We now know that the only thing in blood that is shared by
relatives is the DNA in the blood cells that is also in brain cells, skin
cells, and every cell in the body. So there is nothing unique about blood,
and the terms "blood ties" and "blood relative" are now merely figures of
speech.
But taking that as read, Buffy seems to be using "Summers blood" as a
metaphor for her accepting Dawn as her sister (even though it's true
literally but pedantically that it is "Summers blood", because her name is
Dawn Summers, and it's her blood). Buffy can't be literally saying that
Dawn's blood cells (and brain cells, skin cells, liver cells etc) has DNA
derived from Joyce and Hank, because she is not in a position to know that.
And the monk, who was in a position to know, seemed to suggest not:
BUFFY: She's not my sister?
MONK: She doesn't know that.
--
Apteryx
One Bit Shy
I was reviewing the transcript of that scene and just had to laugh when I
saw Buffy's line, "Don't get metaphory on me."
What exactly the Monks do is one of those things that's always going to be
shrouded in mystery. Giles described it as transforming energy and bending
reality (presumably something he got from the WC), which isn't a lot to go
on. But for what admittedly limited value these speculations are worth,
that makes me think it's something other than a crafted construct plunked
down into the existing world. The fundamental reality of the universe is
altered to accommodate Dawn, so that she's a natural part of the reality.
That's how they make her human - because surely they don't have the
knowledge to literally create a human. They can only manipulate the
existing fabric of the universe (with all of its built in complexity and
powerful forces) so that the "energy matrix" is transformed into a literal
human with a natural place in the new reality.
I speak of the naturalistic aspect (most clearly represented by Dawn simply
being human rather than an illusion or demon in human form or something else
of the like) because of how she's fit into reality - as Buffy's sister. We
see a number of extended effects of that. The changed memories. Dawn's
physical room with 7 years worth of personal diaries. I don't think those
are things that the monks would have consciously created - way too complex
and probably beyond their power. Instead, I think it's part of the bending
of reality - what reality must look like with Dawn in it. If that's the
case, wouldn't the reality be complete so as to make Dawn physically Buffy's
sister?
The monk's remark that you quoted, which is first aimed at impressing upon
Buffy that Dawn is ignorant of this, isn't necessarily definitive - even
assuming he does understand what he's talking about. In an important
sense - the one Buffy is freaking out about - Dawn still isn't her sister.
She had only existed two months (if I recall correctly) at that point. The
monks had initiated all of this and the past Buffy remembers didn't actually
happen. From that vantage point Dawn is always an artificial creation, not
truly Buffy's sister. But within the framework of the new reality, that
doesn't preclude her physically being her sister - the whole genetic package
as it were. Indeed, being fully her sister in that sense I think is the
most logical, makes the bent reality the most real.
Anyway, this is way too wonky for something with such limited info to work
with. Mainly it's a mystery.
Getting back briefly to the Summers blood scene, I don't know what exactly
Buffy was thinking or believed when she said that. How metaphorical she did
or didn't think of it. But I do think that Dawn must have internalized it
as mostly literal truth. She was at a literal level. Is this real blood?
Is she real? That's the kind of assurance she needed to ground herself
again. (Yeah, psychologically it probably was more reaching for the love of
her sister and being grounded by that, but the conscious panic was about
being a literal thing.)
OBS
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> Buffy was thinking or believed when she said that. How metaphorical she did
> or didn't think of it. But I do think that Dawn must have internalized it
maybe we all start out as glowing green gobs of energy
just waiting for the right lock to open
drifter
> On 2 Jul 2006 18:35:25 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality"
> <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Opus the Penguin wrote:
>>> Arbitrar Of Quality (tsm...@wildmail.com) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I can't comment on whether or not the Ben/Glory
>>>> thing is a big shock or not, since I had that spoiled about a week
>>>> ago.
>>>
>>> Wait a minute. Are you saying there's some kind of connection
>>> between Ben and Glory?
>>
>> If it's possible to do so without spoilers, anyone want to explain
>> the origin of this joke?
>
> Bad penguin! No herring!
>
> *sigh*, no, it's not.
He'll get it soon enough. Then it starts all over again.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
Eric Hunter
We are? Well, ok... I'll google up your posts,
and try to find something poorly written,
uninsightful, or just something I disagree with,
and start harping on it. But, it's gonna take
me a while. ;-)
Eric.
--
drifter
/snip a bit/
> A dangerous game, yes, but it does buy her time. And, well, how
> could she resist? Glory has the poop on the Key.
"Oh, for a different phrasing..."