Thanks for posting those, Jeff... but, egad, now I know the real
reason Peter quit his job: Having to respond to that load of dreck!
My brother, who got himself an AOL account a while back, is canceling
it already because he can't stand the comparative intellectual void.
At least some good stuff was in there. Snowball shall return! Yay!
--
Ron O'Dell `Keeper' kee...@cats.ucsc.edu kee...@armory.com kee...@cruzio.com
http://members.cruzio.com/~keeper/toons.html - Contemporary WB cartoons info
http://www.armory.com/~keeper/midi.html - My own MIDI music and arrangements
A!JW22 -- YKi P++++ I+++ Dpppppwiaaaamdddddddd IV! V! VIII! X! Tow3 $+++dm1
(variant) Vr4++++j3++t2++m+++PaulRugg+TomRuegger++<n>+<Luke>+<Cody>+ H3 Ay70
Hey all!
Peter Hastings said:
<<-RE: Animation services. Yes, there will probably be some Wang and
Akom next season, but we're also trying some new, smaller places.
One's in Hungary and one's in Taiwan. They could do very good work
for us because of course they want to impress us and get lots of
work from Warner Bros. TMS is not on the books for Pinky and the
Brain unfortunately, although they are doing a little bit for
next season's Animaniacs. They are very busy doing a feature
(not for us) and they are also doing a lot for the new WBA Superman
series. It's amazing to see that quite a number of fans are aware
of the studios and the different quality they deliver. We're not
always happy with it ourselves, so don't think we don't care.>>
Okay, now begins my annual rant about TMS, so you folk who don't care can skip this post...
:)
First of all, any idea what he means by "next season"? The one that starts Saturday, or
1997?
I've seen the previews for Superman and it occurred to me that a lot of other companies
could have done the same level of animation besides TMS, like the people who did Batman
(can't remember the name, sorry, though it wasn't TMS, was it?) or Freakazoid--Koko, I
think? I realize I've only seen like 30 seconds of Superman on a commercial, and I'm
certainly making no judgements on the overall quality of a show I haven't seen, but I just
think it's a bit of a waste to use TMS on Superman when other companies could have done the
same (excellent) job. Because--and this is where my particular bias shows up--I think TMS
does such an amazing job with A!, in particular the Warner characters (you know, Yakko,
Wakko, and Dot), that I really think they should stick to that. Now I know that WBA doesn't
always have a choice because certain animation studios can only do so much and have to
choose their jobs carefully, but I really feel that TMS should animate the Warners (at least
part of the time, if it's not possible to do them all the time). Of all the TMS stuff I've
seen (though not all there is, I'm sure) I think their best work is when they do Yakko and
Wakko and Dot. A lot of other companies can do realistic people like in Batman or F!, but
TMS imbues the Warners with such a lovely sweetness and (Ch*ist, I hate to use this word)
wholesome openness. NOBODY else does that, and I'm not sure anyone else can. Enough so
that the whole attitude of the show (to me) is different depending on who's animated it--you
can take the same script, and the same acting, and it'll look smug and smarmy from Wang,
while TMS will make it gracious and full of personality with a real feeling that these
characters are siblings who love and torment each other like all siblings do, and that
that's human nature, and it's beautiful. Besides the fact that TMS "fills in the gaps" in
the script direction and is very smart when adding things that aren't in the script, you can
tell when someone loves their work, and TMS loves to draw the Warners--you can see it in the
lovely exaggerated gestures and the loopy grace they give them.
Look, I know that hiring animation companies is mainly concerned with money and stupid
politics (how did someone call it? Byzantine?). I just wish the people best suited for the
job would be the ones to do it.
Ariadne
Yeah, I'm an artist, and I really do see all that in the TMS stuff--that's why I fell in
love with the series in the first place. By the way, does anyone else out there see it, or
am I the only one on the entire planet?
> First of all, any idea what he means by "next season"? The one that starts Saturday, or
>1997?
He means this season, as A) that post was made several months ago,
and B) he no longer works at WBA so would have little knowledge of
what'll be done for '97.
> I've seen the previews for Superman and it occurred to me that
>a lot of other companies could have done the same level of animation
>besides TMS, like the people who did Batman (can't remember the name,
>sorry, though it wasn't TMS, was it?) or Freakazoid--Koko, I think?
Koko did much of Batman and Freakazoid, yes. They're good with the
"real-world" situations. They were a little bit lost in a "toon"
situation with S&TM -- good drawing, bad motion.
I think using TMS for Superman is similar to using TMS for S&TM
last year: Classic characters they want to be sure are drawn "right."
Don't despair entirely, though. Like Peter said back there, TMS was
used a bit for Animaniacs this season. All I've heard about them doing
was this weekend's "Cutie and the Beast" though.
>By the way, does anyone else out there see it, or
>am I the only one on the entire planet?
People notice. The gang at WBA even mentioned Akom's trouble
with drawing lively eyes when we talked about animation studios
there last year. a.t.a's Fred Baker returned a cel he had
bought from "I Got Yer Can" because the blank stare in Slappy's
eyes got on his nerves very quickly.
As for putting things in which weren't in the script/board, well, that's
hard to tell without seeing the script/board first. Can you give examples
of where you think this occurred? I'll see if I agree.
>Both. As I posted before, the three studios handling PatB are Akom, Wang
>and Rough Draft. Rough Draft did the episode that was on this morning,
>"It's Only a Paper World". Next week's show is Akom. Week three is a
>rerun of "Snowball" and week four is Wang.
I wonder: Does the Week 4 episode feature Snowball's return? The choice
of "Snowball" as a repeat as early as Week 3 makes me curious...
<<I like the TMS artwork a lot, but even they
have their faults--they're great at "smear" animation (the swishy
in-between drawings that allow characters to pop from pose to pose very
quickly), and they do make the characters look nice, but being schooled
in the Japanese style of animation they often have problems with
"character animation" in the sense of how a character moves when he's
not "posing." Notice that a TMS cartoon sometimes has Yakko just
standing there and his mouth moves and his nose twitches; they're not
very good at fluid, non-jerky movement. They're still the best, of
course, but both Wang and Akom are better when it comes to animating
fluid movement.>>
I'm not sure I know what you mean. I know that the character design of TMS Warners has
its ups and downs--sometimes they look like toddlers (like in "Draculaa, Draculee"), and
sometimes they can be nearly as bad as Freelance ("Roll Over, Beethoven" comes to mind).
Can you give me some more specific examples of not being "very good at fluid, non-jerky
movement", because I think they are VERY fluid and graceful. Do you mean they take some
shortcuts with limiting the animation?
and Keeper said:
<<He means this season, as A) that post was made several months ago,
and B) he no longer works at WBA so would have little knowledge of
what'll be done for '97.>>
Hate to be gossipy (and yes, I know I've been out of it for a while, so I haven't heard
anything), but I'm curious, when/why did he leave?
<<As for putting things in which weren't in the script/board, well, that's
hard to tell without seeing the script/board first. Can you give examples
of where you think this occurred? I'll see if I agree.>>
I was quoting a letter Peter Hastings wrote to me a long time ago, when I wrote all the
big-type people at WBA (including Spielberg!) complaining about the lack of decent
animation in the 3rd season. Quite a while ago, back when I was on AoL! (Yikes!) Hang
on, let me find it. . . Okay, here it is:
<<Hi. This is Peter Hastings. I got your letters today and I'm glad you like the shows so
much (except for the animation). Along with you, I would LOVE to see every show go to TMS,
and hopefully more will (we are making a P&B Christmas special there now). They are
absolutely the best of the studios we use. They're smart. They fill in the gaps. They make
the right choices when necessary. They are DAMN expensive. This is a factor, as is
availability. All the studios we use are extremely busy doing all the animation you see on
TV. Sometimes you simply can't get who you want. You mention that TMS animation attracted
you to Animaniacs, but many of our sucessful shows were done by other studios. Usually
we'd save TMS for a very good script just so it wouldn't get wrecked by somebody else. But
there are shows done by Wang, and even Akom, that came out pretty well (and plenty that
didn't). In short, I hope we can use TMS more, but you have to know that that is not going
to make or break P&B. The Simpsons, for example, is all done by Akom. There are lots of
ways to make a show better and (hopefully) we'll be doing them all. Thanks for watching
and tell your friends!
-Peter>>
This was about a year ago now, I guess. I guess I can't give any concrete examples
without knowing the scripts either, but what I mean is that in the TMS stuff there are a
lot of little touches that don't end up in the work from the other companies, and I don't
think it's because they gave TMS a "fuller" script. I'm talking about stuff like the
looks they give each other, or let's see, some examples, off the top of my head. . .
In one of the little in-between timekiller "escape from the watertower" bits (yes, I'm
sure they have a proper name, but I don't know it), Yakko, Wakko and Dot all climb out
onto a rocket ship and scramble over it to get inside. They all take slightly different
routes to get there.
Stuff like they always pose them slightly differently from each other, in accordance with
their personalities. It's what actual humans do when they stand around, but in animation
it takes an extra bit of design to incorporate it.
Or when they get all that money to buy a huge fruitcake at the end of "A Christmas
Plotz", they all rub their eyes using a different gesture. That kind of thing, very
subtle, that maybe a lot of people don't notice.
Just the little body language things that aren't specifically in the script, but that a
good actor would put in there as s/he does the character. TMS does the same thing.
Does that clarify it?
Ariadne
>Q:Do you ever have guest stars that do voices on your show?
>A:Well, we've had Ernest Borgnine, Jim Belushi, Valerie Harper,
>Roddy McDowell, and a bunch of other stars that you've never
>heard of unless you're over thirty. And of course the biggest
>stars, Rob Paulsen and Maurice LaMarche, the voices of Pinky
>and the Brain.
Hey, I've heard of ALL of them! And I'm well under thirty!!
----
Yes, I am the teenage goddess of heavenly bodies and brownies. Want one?
"And that's why you're good at math." "I thought that it was genetic."
"No, it's Cheerios." (a conversation between Lari and Lari's mom)
Ariadne wrote:
>
>
>Can you give me some more specific examples of not being "very good at fluid, non-jerky
> movement", because I think they are VERY fluid and graceful. Do you mean they take some
> shortcuts with limiting the animation?
No, I don't. But their style is based on strong poses and
rather jerky movements. As I said, their specialty is having a
character "pop" rapidly from pose to pose; when they have to animate a
character just standing there, they seem a little nonplussed. A good
example occurred in "Hello Nice Warners" on the line "We're going to do
the tragic ending to Old Screamer"--Yakko really wasn't moving much,
and I think it's simply because they couldn't quite figure out what he
should be doing in terms of his whole body while he was speaking.
"Fluid" animation, or what I mean by fluid, would have a character's
body sort of undulating a little, stuff like that--to make it seem like
he's moving naturally even when he's just talking. But TMS is still by
far the best, and you're definitely right about the extra touches. They
go the extra mile, and they're worth the extra money (or they should be,
anyway). Their faults are minor. And--
We got them back in show # 84. A whole episode done by TMS--
that's a great way to kick off the season (too bad they showed the
leftover # 83 first). And, while it took me a couple of viewings to
really get into "Cutie and the Beast," I actually found it funnier the
second time, especially because it showed that even though they tease
her, Y&W will stick up for Dot when she's treated badly. It sort of
provided a new dimension to their relationship without any of # 83-type
sentimentality, and the songs were excellent. It's not an episode for
people who hate the Warners, or for people who dislike in-jokes, but
guess what--when I saw it the third time I liked it even better, and the
fourth time was even--you get the idea. A fine short. The rest of the
episode could hardly have been better, and everything was wrapped up in
a great package by having the Warners finally look like they're supposed
to. Thumbs up, kudos for youdos, and all that, cartoon-making-people.
But don't let "Cuckoo Clock" happen again.
> I'm not sure I know what you mean. I know that the character
>design of TMS Warners has its ups and downs--sometimes they look like
>toddlers (like in "Draculaa, Draculee"), and sometimes they can be
>nearly as bad as Freelance ("Roll Over, Beethoven" comes to mind).
Actually, those two stories you mention were among the first made.
(Draculee, Draculaa actually was the first recorded.)
Draculee, Draculaa was 406-601
Roll Over, Beethoven was 406-701
I think this means that they were made concurrently, so what we see
are two TMS units making their first attempts at drawing the Warners.
(Or indeed, the first time any animators drew them, really.)
>Both. As I posted before, the three studios handling PatB are Akom, Wang
>and Rough Draft. Rough Draft did the episode that was on this morning,
>"It's Only a Paper World". Next week's show is Akom. Week three is a
>rerun of "Snowball" and week four is Wang.
Why was Brain so fuzzy? That was bugging me, a bit...
>>and Rough Draft. Rough Draft did the episode that was on this morning,
>>"It's Only a Paper World". Next week's show is Akom. Week three is a
>>rerun of "Snowball" and week four is Wang.
>
>Why was Brain so fuzzy? That was bugging me, a bit...
He was supposed to be frazzled from having so much difficulty coming up
with a plan.
Earl
I thought it was cute, too... and, of course, I loved the disheveled and
unkempt Brain in "Snowball" too. (here's a thought... Brain in a slacker
movie). Actually, that sort of situation taught me never to use genuine
Folger's Crystals in an espresso machine.