Best quote ever ...
Ken from Chicago
considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
Giles, right?
-- Ken from Chicago
Captain Infinity
>Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
>considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
>Giles, right?
My favorite Giles quote is "Bloody hell!" when he, in his drunken state,
learns that Tara is Willow's girlfriend. Cracks me up every time.
**
Captain Infinity
..."Come back! Those are prescription pants!" --Comic Book Guy
Ken from Chicago
"Captain Infinity" <Infi...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:qi1cuv83f3kmggh59...@4ax.com...
Ah, yes, "The Yoko Factor" strikes again.
Speaking of Tara, I thought her best quote was not really a quote, but an
arched eyebrow raised at Willow in BTVS S5's "I Was Made To Love You" when
Willow commented that a pretty girl like that was bound to hook up with
someone, at which point Willow backed off, adding sheepishly, if you go for
someone like that.
It was the one time in the entire series Tara ever seemed close to showing
anger.
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. The ''girl'' in question was the Aprilbot.
Captain Infinity
>Speaking of Tara, I thought her best quote was not really a quote, but an
>arched eyebrow raised at Willow in BTVS S5's "I Was Made To Love You" when
>Willow commented that a pretty girl like that was bound to hook up with
>someone, at which point Willow backed off, adding sheepishly, if you go for
>someone like that.
>
>It was the one time in the entire series Tara ever seemed close to showing
>anger.
>P.S. The ''girl'' in question was the Aprilbot.
My favorite Willow/Tara moment was when, during the frenzy of Anya's
pre-wedding, Willow fleetingly cops a feel of Tara's right breast.
Yowsa!
Rowan Hawthorn
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:6N6dnTOCBNo...@comcast.com...
>
> "Captain Infinity" <Infi...@world.std.com> wrote in message
> news:qi1cuv83f3kmggh59...@4ax.com...
> > Once Upon A Time Ken from Chicago wrote:
> >
> > >Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes,
when
> > >considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote
from
> > >Giles, right?
> >
> > My favorite Giles quote is "Bloody hell!" when he, in his drunken state,
> > learns that Tara is Willow's girlfriend. Cracks me up every time.
> >
> >
> > **
> > Captain Infinity
> > ..."Come back! Those are prescription pants!" --Comic Book Guy
>
> Ah, yes, "The Yoko Factor" strikes again.
>
> Speaking of Tara, I thought her best quote was not really a quote, but an
> arched eyebrow raised at Willow in BTVS S5's "I Was Made To Love You" when
> Willow commented that a pretty girl like that was bound to hook up with
> someone, at which point Willow backed off, adding sheepishly, if you go
for
> someone like that.
>
I don't know - even though "Older and Far Away" wasn't exactly my favorite
episode, it *did* have a couple of great moments for Tara:
Spike: I, uh, had a muscle cramp. Buffy was... helping.
Tara: Muscle cramp. In your...pants.
Spike: What. It's a thing.
Tara: Right. (Walks away, amused again.)
Then later:
Tara: How's that cramp, Spike? Still bothering you?
Spike: What? Oh. Yeah...
Tara: (smiles) Maybe you should put some ice on it.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"I love mankind, it's PEOPLE I can't stand!" - Linus Van Pelt
Ken from Chicago
> Once Upon A Time Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
> >Speaking of Tara, I thought her best quote was not really a quote, but an
> >arched eyebrow raised at Willow in BTVS S5's "I Was Made To Love You"
when
> >Willow commented that a pretty girl like that was bound to hook up with
> >someone, at which point Willow backed off, adding sheepishly, if you go
for
> >someone like that.
> >
> >It was the one time in the entire series Tara ever seemed close to
showing
> >anger.
>
> >P.S. The ''girl'' in question was the Aprilbot.
>
> My favorite Willow/Tara moment was when, during the frenzy of Anya's
> pre-wedding, Willow fleetingly cops a feel of Tara's right breast.
> Yowsa!
NO WAY! LIAR! You're making that up. No way even UPN would let that
onscreen.
> **
> Captain Infinity
> ..."Come back! Those are prescription pants!" --Comic Book Guy
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Rowan Hawthorn" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:fTpFb.2708835$be.4...@news.easynews.com...
Ok, if you're gonna be technical about going for an actual *quote* quote
....
Btw, Willow's quote is clearly "I already gotta girlfriend" to Fred when
Fred was demonstrating her usual Southern hospitality, when Willow guested
on ATS to pick up Faith for Buffy. Not *pick up* pick up, and not for Buffy,
well for Buffy, but merely to drive her back to BTVS.
-- Ken from Chicago
William George Ferguson
Hardly anger there. That was just a warning shot across the bows.
Both Tara and Anya were giving their SOs 'the look', and Willow picked
up on it a lot faster than Xander. Tara showed true anger at least
three times that I can remember, when Glory was breaking her hand
trying to make her identify the Key, when the woman she loved more
than anything else betrayed her horribly, and when she chewed out Anya
for dumping on Willow in Older And Far Away.
As for 'Best Quote Ever', by character (almost all of them meaningless
without context)
Joyce: "I think what my daughter is trying to say is 'nya-nya-nya-nya
nyanya'."
Giles: "Oh, as usual, dear."
Buffy: "I'm going to kill them all. That should delay them."
Xander: "That's insane troll logic!"
Willow: "Bored now."
Jenny: "That's not where I dangle it."
Snyder: "Summers, you drive like a spaz."
Jonathan: "We're not your friends."
Larry: "If we can focus, keep discipline, and not have quite as many
mysterious deaths, Sunnydale is gonna *rule*!"
Cordelia: "How about because you're a tiny, impotent Nazi with a bug
up his butt the size of an emu?"
Harmony: "Slayer! We meet at last." (Buffy: "Harmony, you moron, we
went to high school together.")
Richard Wilkins III: "Well, gosh."
Faith: "Because it's wrong."
Riley: "It's just that the other day when you, you know, saved the
world, I thought you were having a big week."
Spike: "You're NOT friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in
love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll
hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends.
Love isn't brains, children, it's blood, blood screaming inside you to
work its will. I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to
admit it."
Oz: "Huh."
Tara: "I am you know. Yours."
Anya: [TIE]
"I'm eleven hundred and twenty, just give me the frickin' beer."
"Bunnies, bunnies, it must be BUNNIES!" (or maybe midgets)
Dawn: "Dumbass."
Andrew: "Timothy Dalton should get an Oscar and beat Sean Connery
over the head with it!"
Kennedy: "In fact, this may have escaped your keen notice, but I’m
kind of a brat."
Amanda: "Cause that's what I did. I stuck up for myself. The other
day after class, I jumped him in the parking lot, and I slammed his
stupid-ass insecure face right into the pavement." "I guess that's
another reason Mr. Miller wanted me to see you. Do you think I should
pound on him some more?"
Rona: "Cause the black chick always gets it first?"
Vi: "These guys are dust."
Rowan Hawthorn
Actually, it was: "I'm seeing someone."
And out of all of Willow's great lines, *that* one is the definitive? HA!
It is to laugh!
One of my favorites:
Willow: (notices a boy) Ooo, Scott Hope at eleven o'clock. (Buffy
looks) (to Buffy) He likes you. He wanted to ask you out last year, but you
weren't ready then. But I think you're ready now, or at least in the state
of pre-readiness to make conversation, or-or to do that thing with your
mouth that boys like.
Buffy snaps her head around at Willow and gives her a shocked look.
Willow: (realizes her slip-up) Oh! I didn't mean the *bad* thing with your
mouth, I meant that little half-smile thing that you... (glares at
Oz) You're s'posed to stop me when I do that.
Ken from Chicago
Woops, of course the best quote ever for the lead characters, Buffy and
Angel are obvious:
"Hi, I'm 'Buffy', the vampire slayer, and you are?"
"Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. - It's harsh, and cruel.
But that's why there's us. Champions. It doesn't matter where we come from,
what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as
though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be."
Incidentally, the former quote is just as powerful as the latter, if not
moreso, given the context it was spoken in.
-- Ken from Chicago
Tirya
> Actually, it was: "I'm seeing someone."
> And out of all of Willow's great lines, *that* one is the definitive? HA!
> It is to laugh!
>
> One of my favorites:
Some of my favorite Willow lines:
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange."
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel. A
vague disclaimer is nobody's friend."
nimue
Anya and Spike have the best quotes. I love Anya's, "Men are evil. Will
you go to the prom with me" and her take on Thanksgiving: "To commemorate a
past event you kill and eat an animal. A ritual sacrifice... with pie."
As for Spike, I love his response when Buffy told him to explain what he was
doing under her window in five words or fewer. He counts on his fingers as
he says, "Out for a walk...bitch."
--
nimue
"...but I want you to know I did save you... not when it counted of
course, but after that. Every night after that...every night I save
you." Spike to Buffy After Life
Gosh, when Spike says heartfelt, sincere things like that -- things
straight from his full heart, well, it just makes you wonder why women
are crazy about him, doesn't it?
Ken from Chicago
"William George Ferguson" wmgf...@newsguy.com wrote in message
news:j9bcuvob74bu4mj4f...@4ax.com...
Xander: "I like the quiet."
> Willow: "Bored now."
>
> Jenny: "That's not where I dangle it."
>
> Snyder: "Summers, you drive like a spaz."
Snyder: "Oooh, another tingle moment."
> Jonathan: "We're not your friends."
>
> Larry: "If we can focus, keep discipline, and not have quite as many
> mysterious deaths, Sunnydale is gonna *rule*!"
A-FRELLING-MEN.
> Cordelia: "How about because you're a tiny, impotent Nazi with a bug
> up his butt the size of an emu?"
>
> Harmony: "Slayer! We meet at last." (Buffy: "Harmony, you moron, we
> went to high school together.")
>
> Richard Wilkins III: "Well, gosh."
Mayor: "It has begun. My destiny. It's a little sooner then I expected I
had this whole section on civic pride. But I guess we'll just skip to the
big finish!"
> Faith: "Because it's wrong."
Don't you mean Baith or Fuffy?
> Riley: "It's just that the other day when you, you know, saved the
> world, I thought you were having a big week."
Riley: "You're ... really ... strong, ... like Spider-Man strong."
> Spike: "You're NOT friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in
> love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll
> hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends.
> Love isn't brains, children, it's blood, blood screaming inside you to
> work its will. I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to
> admit it."
Ironic, and we only thot Spike was talking about A/B.
Actually Spike's best quote ever is: "I know I'm a bad poet, but I'm a good
man."
> Oz: "Huh."
Oz: "No, we're usually laconic."
> Tara: "I am you know. Yours."
>
> Anya: [TIE]
> "I'm eleven hundred and twenty, just give me the frickin' beer."
> "Bunnies, bunnies, it must be BUNNIES!" (or maybe midgets)
Definitely the latter.
> Dawn: "Dumbass."
>
> Andrew: "Timothy Dalton should get an Oscar and beat Sean Connery
> over the head with it!"
>
> Kennedy: "In fact, this may have escaped your keen notice, but I'm
> kind of a brat."
>
> Amanda: "Cause that's what I did. I stuck up for myself. The other
> day after class, I jumped him in the parking lot, and I slammed his
> stupid-ass insecure face right into the pavement." "I guess that's
> another reason Mr. Miller wanted me to see you. Do you think I should
> pound on him some more?"
>
> Rona: "Cause the black chick always gets it first?"
>
> Vi: "These guys are dust."
-- Ken from Chicago
Tammy Stephanie Davis
Two come immediately to mind - one from each show.
Episode: Something Blue
Scene: Xander sees Buffy and Spike kissing enthusiastically
compliments of a spell inadvertedly casted by Willow which also causes
Giles to go blind.
Xander: "Can I be blind, too?"
Episode: Players
Scene: Cordelia has just been caught as she was just about to stab Lorne.
Lorne: "Has Cordy been a bad, bad girl?"
--
Shorty
I've always been found of:
"Willows gonna make puppy bark"
and the entire speech she did for the teaser of Freshmen about her
enjoyment of college.
"I can feel my mind opening and it just thrusting into me and spurting
knowledge...."
I cant recall the rest of it exactly enough :)
Shorty
Ice Queen
> Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
> considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
> Giles, right?
Don't call him shirley.
I've got a bunch, but as the holidays loom and I have to deal with my
fundie family:
"Please! Like shame is something to be proud of?"
"Yeah? You smell sin, lady? Well let me tell you something: she who
smelt it dealt it!"
Aura
Ice Queen
> My favorite Willow/Tara moment was when, during the frenzy of Anya's
> pre-wedding, Willow fleetingly cops a feel of Tara's right breast.
> Yowsa!
Was *that* what they were giggling about? I totally missed that!
Aura
Anna
Xander to Cordy : "I'm 17-- Linoleum makes me think about sex!!"
I think it was pangs-Spike to Buffy: while rying to get away while tied
to a chair: "A bear?- A bear- you make a bear?? Undo it - Undo it!"
Anna
NYC, NY
Ice Queen
> Anya and Spike have the best quotes. I love Anya's, "Men are evil. Will
> you go to the prom with me" and her take on Thanksgiving: "To commemorate a
> past event you kill and eat an animal. A ritual sacrifice... with pie."
Love that! And -- being a child of the PC generation -- I adore
Spike's take: "I just can't take all this namby pamby boo hooing about
the bloody Indians. You won. Alright? You came in, you killed them,
and you took their land. That's what conquering nations *do*. That's
what Caesar did, and you didn't hear him saying "I came, I conquered
... I feel really bad about it." The history of the world is not about
people making friends. You had better weapons, and you massacred
them. End of story"
Another great Spike line is at the end of Lovers Walk: "I did it
MYYYYY WAYYY!!!" (Btw, there's something really liberating about
screaming along to that song.:)
> He counts on his fingers as he says, "Out for a walk...bitch."
Lol. 5 words that sum up why I love Incompetent!Spike.
Aura
Chris Zabel
for goods and/or services like money"
Don Sample
Oh, come on! This is Sunnydale! How bad an evil can there be here?
Buffy -- Welcome to the Hellmouth
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter, in fact I... well, I
encourage you to always challenge me when you feel itąs appropriate.
You should never be cowed by authority. Except, of course, in this
instance, when I am clearly right and you are clearly wrong.
Giles -- I Only Have Eyes For You
Iąm probably the only girl in school who has the coronerąs office
bookmarked as a favourite place.
Willow -- Some Assembly Required
I laugh in the face of danger...Then I hide until it goes away.
Xander -- The Witch
Okay, I pretty much missed out on some stuff, didnąt I? Because this is
all making a kind of sense thatąs...not.
Oz -- Becoming
Yąknow, the part that gets me though, is where Buffy is the Vampire
Slayer. Sheąs so little.
Jenny -- Prophecy Girl
Iąm eleven hundred and twenty years old. Just give me a frigging beer!
Anya -- Doppelgängland
I go online sometimes, but everyoneąs spelling is really bad. Itąs
depressing.
Tara -- I Was Made to Love You
You know Buffy, looking back at everything thatąs happened, maybe I
should have sent you to a different school.
Joyce -- Graduation Day
Nobody knows who I am...not the real me.
Dawn -- Real Me
Those of you who fall under my good graces will come to know me as
Maggie. Those of you who donąt will come to know me by the name my TAs
use, and think I donąt know about: łThe Evil Bitch Monster of Death.˛
Maggie Walsh -- The Freshman
What kind of girl is going to go out with a guy whoąs acting all Joe
Regular by day, and turns all demon hunter by night?
Riley -- The Initiative
Slayer? A thrash band. Anvil-heavy guitar rock with delusions of Black
Sabbath.
Forrest -- Doomed
Come on. Weąll find a couple studs, weąll use ąem and discard ąem.
Thatąs always fun.
Faith -- Homecoming
I am weary, and their deaths will bring me little joy. Of course
sometimes a little is enough.
The Master -- Angel
I hate that girl!
The Annoying One -- When She Was Bad
We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my
baguette!
Drusilla -- Whatąs My Line
So who do you kill for fun around here?
Spike -- School Hard
Yąknow, I hope youąre not taking this personally, Buffy. I actually
kinda like you. Itąs just that I like myself a whole lot more.
Ethan Rayne -- The Dark Age
Thatąs one of the things I love about this country. You produce a good
product, and people come to you. Of course, a lot of people are going
to die, but thatąs the other thing I love about this country.
Mr. Trick -- Band Candy
Thatąs what separates me from other politicians, Mr. Trick: I keep my
campaign promises.
Mayor Wilkins -- Band Candy
Oh sh--
Glory -- No Place Like Home, Blood Ties
Hereąs the Slayerąs name, address, and telephone number. You want to
kill her? Make it so.
Warren -- Flooded
You all think Iąm an idiot! A short idiot!
Jonathan -- Earshot
How many times do I have to say it? The Prom thing was my lame-o
brother Tucker. I trained flying demon monkeys to attack the school
play. School play, dude.
Andrew -- Flooded
Iąm always here if you need a hug--but not a real hug‹because thereąs
no touching, this school is sensitive to wrong touching.
Principal Flutie -- Teacherąs Pet
A lot of educators tell students łThink of your principal as your pal.˛
I say: łThink of me as your judge, jury and executioner.˛
Principal Snyder -- School Hard
Thereąs only three things these kids understand: the boot, the bat, and
the bastinada!
Principal Wood -- Beneath You
Being a vampire sucks!
Harmony -- The Harsh Light of Day
How long was I in the cage?
Amy -- Smashed
A hundred years, just hanging out...feeling guilty...I really honed my
brooding skills.
Angel -- Lie To Me
Tact is just not saying true stuff...Iąll pass.
Cordelia -- Killed by Death
I have, in fact, faced two vampires myself. Under controlled
circumstances, of course.
Wesley -- Bad Girls
So many body parts, so few bullets. Letąs begin with the kneecaps. No
fun dancing without them.
Darla -- Angel
--
Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Rowan Hawthorn
>
> "Captain Infinity" <Infi...@world.std.com> wrote in message
> news:th5cuvo22a20pevei...@4ax.com...
> > Once Upon A Time Ken from Chicago wrote:
> >
> > >Speaking of Tara, I thought her best quote was not really a quote, but
an
> > >arched eyebrow raised at Willow in BTVS S5's "I Was Made To Love You"
> when
> > >Willow commented that a pretty girl like that was bound to hook up with
> > >someone, at which point Willow backed off, adding sheepishly, if you go
> for
> > >someone like that.
> > >
> > >It was the one time in the entire series Tara ever seemed close to
> showing
> > >anger.
> >
> > >P.S. The ''girl'' in question was the Aprilbot.
> >
> > My favorite Willow/Tara moment was when, during the frenzy of Anya's
> > pre-wedding, Willow fleetingly cops a feel of Tara's right breast.
> > Yowsa!
>
> NO WAY! LIAR! You're making that up. No way even UPN would let that
> onscreen.
>
Sure 'nuff. It's during the brawl near the end - Willow grabs Tara and
pulls her out of harm's way, then asks if she's OK and brushes Tara's hair
back. As she passes her hand lightly down Tara's hair it trails right on
down and *appears* to brush lightly and deliberately across her breast (yes,
I went back and checked!) Guess Willow was telling the truth when she said
she's a "breast girl..."
Rowan Hawthorn
"Shorty" <notrea...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7i1duv8olmqbedl3m...@4ax.com...
Willow: It's just in High School, knowledge was pretty much frowned upon.
You really had to work to learn anything. But here, the energy, the
collective intelligence, it's like this force, this penetrating force, and I
can just feel my mind opening up--you know?--and letting this place thrust
into and spurt knowledge into... That sentence ended up in a different
place than it started out in.
Willow losing control of her rambling thought processes never fails to crack
me up.
Ken from Chicago
I prefer the drumstick. >=^>
> --
> Rowan Hawthorn
>
> "I love mankind, it's PEOPLE I can't stand!" - Linus Van Pelt
I prefer TIME, and sometimes NEWSWEEK.
-- Ken from Chicago
nimue
is really important, one that sums up my philosophy and maybe the show's,
then it has to be what Jonathan said in CWDP when he and Andrew were digging
in the high school basement. Jonathan said he missed high school.
"I'm serious." says Jonathan. "I really miss it. Time goes by.and everything
drops away. All the cruelty, all the pain, all the humiliation. It all
washes away. I miss my friends. I miss my enemies. I miss the people I
talked to every day. I miss the people who never knew I existed. I miss them
all. I want to talk to them, you know? I want to find out how they're doing.
I want to know what's going on in their lives."
Andrew mocked him with "You know what? They don't want to talk to you.
Those people you just mentioned, not one of them is sitting around going, 'I
wonder what Jonathan's up to right now?' Not one of them cares about you."
Then Jonathan, in a dazzling display of personal growth said, "Well, I
still care about them. That's why I'm here."
I nearly fell off my chair. We should all be as spiritually evolved as
Jonathan. What a long journey he made in such a short time.
Rowan Hawthorn
> I have been thinking about this,and if there is a quote I LOVE, one I
think
> is really important, one that sums up my philosophy and maybe the show's,
> then it has to be what Jonathan said in CWDP when he and Andrew were
digging
> in the high school basement. Jonathan said he missed high school.
> "I'm serious." says Jonathan. "I really miss it. Time goes by.and
everything
> drops away. All the cruelty, all the pain, all the humiliation. It all
> washes away. I miss my friends. I miss my enemies. I miss the people I
> talked to every day. I miss the people who never knew I existed. I miss
them
> all. I want to talk to them, you know? I want to find out how they're
doing.
> I want to know what's going on in their lives."
> Andrew mocked him with "You know what? They don't want to talk to you.
> Those people you just mentioned, not one of them is sitting around going,
'I
> wonder what Jonathan's up to right now?' Not one of them cares about you."
> Then Jonathan, in a dazzling display of personal growth said, "Well, I
> still care about them. That's why I'm here."
> I nearly fell off my chair. We should all be as spiritually evolved as
> Jonathan. What a long journey he made in such a short time.
>
Couldn't snip a thing. Can't say it's my *favorite* quote, but I think you
nailed the rest of it. I haven't been to a single one of my high school
reunions, nor gone out of my way to look up a single person from high
school. Being dealt the same kind of treatment Jonathon was (I had to kick
a guy's ass on my *last day of high school,*) there really isn't anyone from
those days that I have any interest in seeing ever again. So here's to ya,
Short Round - you're a better man than I am.
Theron Mann
> Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
> considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
> Giles, right?
>
Giles - The Wish
[Anyaka: How do you know the other world is any better than this
one?]
Giles: It has to be.
Skinner - Puppet Show
There are three things I will not tolerate in this school, Summers:
students loitering after class, horrible murders with organs removed,
and smoking.
(I also liked "and a faint whiff of . . . jail" and "It's fuzzy-headed
liberal thinking like that that leads to people being eaten.")
Xander:
I can't remember the exact words, but I would go for his balloon
animal rant against the nightmare clown.
Spike:
Joyce: Have we met?
Spike: Yes, you hit me with an axe.
Joyce: What?
Spike: Remember? (Mimes swinging an axe) 'Get the hell away from my
daughter?'
Joyce: Oh yeah.
- or -
Willow: Really? Cause you were pretty subtle about the blood lust?
Spike: Well, I like to keep some mystery about it. I don't like the
guys who are all fangy and "Aaarh." I've always wanted to bite you.
Willow: Well that's really . . . wait a minute . . . (hits Spike with
lamp and runs away).
Xander:
"Is every frat house on this campus haunted? And if they are, why do
people keep coming to these parties? Cause I'm telling you, it's not
the snacks."
Espen Schjønberg
> Some of my favorite Willow lines:
>
> "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange."
>
> "And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel. A
> vague disclaimer is nobody's friend."
"I'll eat this banana! Lunchtime be damned." -doppelgangland.
AH is really good, making so much out of so many lines.
"Say, you all didn't happen to do a bunch of drugs, did ya?"
--
Espen
Espen Schjønberg
>
> How long was I in the cage?
> Amy -- Smashed
Or what about Faith - in a " similar" situation in This years girl,
ending up with: "What year".
Digged that one.
--
Espen
Can Altinbay
>
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in
message
> news:q8OdnesN3ZE...@comcast.com...
> > Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
> > considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote
from
> > Giles, right?
> >
> > -- Ken from Chicago
>
> Woops, of course the best quote ever for the lead characters, Buffy and
> Angel are obvious:
>
> "Hi, I'm 'Buffy', the vampire slayer, and you are?"
>
I like Angel's variant of that - "My name is Angel, what's yours?" Someone
DOES know the reference, right?
--
How can you worship a homeless man on Sunday
and ignore another on Monday?
nimue
> "nimue" <cup_o_ca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5NAFb.33188$4F2.2...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>> I have been thinking about this,and if there is a quote I LOVE, one
>> I think is really important, one that sums up my philosophy and
>> maybe the show's, then it has to be what Jonathan said in CWDP when
>> he and Andrew were digging in the high school basement. Jonathan
>> said he missed high school. "I'm serious." says Jonathan. "I really
>> miss it. Time goes by.and everything drops away. All the cruelty,
>> all the pain, all the humiliation. It all washes away. I miss my
>> friends. I miss my enemies. I miss the people I talked to every day.
>> I miss the people who never knew I existed. I miss them all. I want
>> to talk to them, you know? I want to find out how they're doing. I
>> want to know what's going on in their lives." Andrew mocked him
>> with "You know what? They don't want to talk to you. Those people
>> you just mentioned, not one of them is sitting around going, 'I
>> wonder what Jonathan's up to right now?' Not one of them cares
>> about you." Then Jonathan, in a dazzling display of personal growth
>> said, "Well, I still care about them. That's why I'm here." I nearly
>> fell off my chair. We should all be as spiritually evolved as
>> Jonathan. What a long journey he made in such a short time.
>>
>
> Couldn't snip a thing.
I am honored. I will follow your lead -- I hope no one minds.
>Can't say it's my *favorite* quote, but I
> think you nailed the rest of it.
Thank you!
>I haven't been to a single one of
> my high school reunions, nor gone out of my way to look up a single
> person from high school. Being dealt the same kind of treatment
> Jonathon was (I had to kick a guy's ass on my *last day of high
> school,*) there really isn't anyone from those days that I have any
> interest in seeing ever again. So here's to ya, Short Round - you're
> a better man than I am.
You know, I was the original brunette outcast in high school myself. I went
to my reunion a couple of years ago, although I did see the name of a guy
who tormented me cruelly on the guest list. I actually talked about it with
my friends before I went -- I might not have gone because this guy (who was
just cruel) was there, but I decided not to let him have that kind of
influence anymore. Well, I got there, and everything was going fine, and
then *he* walked in. He saw me and said, "Hi, nimue." I looked at him,
locked him with the gaze-of-death and said in a flat voice, "Hi." The
temperature dropped in the room to about 100 below and everyone turned to
look at us. My negative energy was that bad. I turned my back on him and
walked away. He looked astonished. Soon, it was my turn to be astonished.
He followed me, and said, "What is it?" Before I knew it, everything this
guy had said to me, every humiliation came pouring out of my mouth. At
first I was glaring at him in a how-could-you sort of a way, but to my
utter shock, I could see
that the guy I was talking to was NOT the guy I had gone to school with. He
had changed. He grovelled, he was so contrite, he apologized over and over
and then for the next 2 hours we talked about why he was such a jerk in high
school. He told me about the neglect and abandonment he had suffered in his
childhood, and the resulting anger (especially toward women) and then the
really great story of how he turned his life around in college. It was
amazing. This bully, this jerk -- changed. He grew. He was human. Who
knows -- if you went to your high school reunion, you might find a bunch of
humans where monsters used to be. Life teaches people things, and people
often (not always, but often) mellow with age. This experience was a very
significant one for me, and that is why I am sharing it. I think I have
posted about it before. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to tell you --
maybe you should go to your next high school reunion -- it might not be as
bad as you think. :-)
Ken from Chicago
think
> is really important, one that sums up my philosophy and maybe the show's,
> then it has to be what Jonathan said in CWDP when he and Andrew were
digging
> in the high school basement. Jonathan said he missed high school.
> "I'm serious." says Jonathan. "I really miss it. Time goes by.and
everything
> drops away. All the cruelty, all the pain, all the humiliation. It all
> washes away. I miss my friends. I miss my enemies. I miss the people I
> talked to every day. I miss the people who never knew I existed. I miss
them
> all. I want to talk to them, you know? I want to find out how they're
doing.
> I want to know what's going on in their lives."
> Andrew mocked him with "You know what? They don't want to talk to you.
> Those people you just mentioned, not one of them is sitting around going,
'I
> wonder what Jonathan's up to right now?' Not one of them cares about you."
> Then Jonathan, in a dazzling display of personal growth said, "Well, I
> still care about them. That's why I'm here."
> I nearly fell off my chair. We should all be as spiritually evolved as
> Jonathan. What a long journey he made in such a short time.
Or, he was AFRAID of change, of growth, of being on his own, with the safe
familiar crutch of . . . the familiar.
Or maybe he was simply afraid of being . . . ALONE.
There is a loneliness so deep, so profound, so heartbreaking that the even
the torment of one's worst enemy is preferable.
> --
> nimue
>
> "...but I want you to know I did save you... not when it counted of
> course, but after that. Every night after that...every night I save
> you." Spike to Buffy After Life
> Gosh, when Spike says heartfelt, sincere things like that -- things
> straight from his full heart, well, it just makes you wonder why women
> are crazy about him, doesn't it?
-- Ken from Chicago
David E. Milligan
cliques reformed; most people looked about the same, many changed completely
(me, for one, I lost my hair). The 20th and 25th -- things loosened up, no
one was concerned with high school popularity contests, etc. I ended up
talking to people I never talked to in school. Of course there were those
who had died, and those who I would have liked to have seen again but never
came to any of them. But I did enjoy going to all of them.
David
Tom Breton
My two cents:
Xander: (loudly) Nothing can defeat the penis!
Spike: (singsong) Someone wasn't worthy... ("Becoming 2")
Buffy: I'm Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and you are? ("Anne")
Xander: Can I be blind too? ("Something Blue")
--
Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom
nimue
> "nimue" <cup_o_ca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5NAFb.33188$4F2.2...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>> I have been thinking about this,and if there is a quote I LOVE, one
>> I think is really important, one that sums up my philosophy and
>> maybe the show's, then it has to be what Jonathan said in CWDP when
>> he and Andrew were digging in the high school basement. Jonathan
>> said he missed high school. "I'm serious." says Jonathan. "I really
>> miss it. Time goes by.and everything drops away. All the cruelty,
>> all the pain, all the humiliation. It all washes away. I miss my
>> friends. I miss my enemies. I miss the people I talked to every day.
>> I miss the people who never knew I existed. I miss them all. I want
>> to talk to them, you know? I want to find out how they're doing. I
>> want to know what's going on in their lives." Andrew mocked him
>> with "You know what? They don't want to talk to you. Those people
>> you just mentioned, not one of them is sitting around going, 'I
>> wonder what Jonathan's up to right now?' Not one of them cares
>> about you." Then Jonathan, in a dazzling display of personal growth
>> said, "Well, I still care about them. That's why I'm here." I nearly
>> fell off my chair. We should all be as spiritually evolved as
>> Jonathan. What a long journey he made in such a short time.
>
> Or, he was AFRAID of change, of growth, of being on his own, with the
> safe familiar crutch of . . . the familiar.
No, I don't agree. If he just wanted the familiar, he would have looked at
his old familiar classmates the way they were, the way they had been. He
had moved beyond that.
>
> Or maybe he was simply afraid of being . . . ALONE.
>
> There is a loneliness so deep, so profound, so heartbreaking that the
> even the torment of one's worst enemy is preferable.
I don't agree. He wasn't seeking any of his old friends or enemies out. He
wasn't looking for companionship. He just had a good will for them. He had
let go of the past. Furthermore, Jonathan was risking his life to save
these people. You don't do that because you are lonely. You do that
because you have come to a place where you recognize the humanity in people.
Merrick Baldelli
wrote:
>Sometimes the old quotes are the best quotes:
Mine is actually a scene involving Willow and Glory
Glory: What's that? A bag of tricks?
Willow: No, a bag of knives (and out pops a whole lot of
them).
--
-=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
_( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli
(((\ \> /_1 `
(\\\\ \_/ / snark...@mindspring.com
-=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
\ _/ remove the _ and replace with - if you
/ / want to contact me.
A.E. Jabbour
> Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
> considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
> Giles, right?
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
My favorite quote from Giles ("Innocence"):
GILES: No. I don't believe it is. Do you want me to wag my finger at
you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did. And I can. I know that
you loved him. And he has proven more than once that he loved you. You
couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months are going to be
hard. I suspect on all of us, but ... if it's guilt you're looking for,
Buffy, I'm, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is, is my support.
And my respect.
He delivers that dialogue perfectly. And the way which both of them play
that entire scene is wonderful. The whole episode is one magnificent
example of just how great the show could be at times.
--
AE Jabbour
"OK, at this point, you're *abusing* sarcasm."
-Buffy Anne Summers, NKaBotFD
Rowan Hawthorn
> Rowan Hawthorn wrote:
>
<snipped this time, just for clarity>
Probably not. Thing is, *I've* changed since those days, and just simply
don't have any interest in any of them. We went to school together from
second grade till high school graduation, and I had almost nothing in common
with them even then. Really no more than four or five that I'd even count
as more than casual acquaintances, and none of them were *close* friends.
Eh. I may go to the next one. Probably won't be for another ten years,
though - this year was our big three-oh.
Ken from Chicago
"Tom Breton" <te...@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com> wrote in message
news:m3fzfco...@mail.panix.com...
>
> My two cents:
>
> Xander: (loudly) Nothing can defeat the penis!
>
> Spike: (singsong) Someone wasn't worthy... ("Becoming 2")
>
> Buffy: I'm Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and you are? ("Anne")
AMEN.
> Xander: Can I be blind too? ("Something Blue")
Hey, that's TWO Xander quotes.
>
>
> --
> Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
But he can't see how they were, they've aged. However wanted to go back to
high school or a previous time is a common wish when current times are hard
because at least before the problems were familiar. The current problems
have the added factor of being unknown, and a lot of people fear the
unknown, the future, as undiscovered country.
> > Or maybe he was simply afraid of being . . . ALONE.
> >
> > There is a loneliness so deep, so profound, so heartbreaking that the
> > even the torment of one's worst enemy is preferable.
>
> I don't agree. He wasn't seeking any of his old friends or enemies out.
He
> wasn't looking for companionship. He just had a good will for them. He
had
> let go of the past. Furthermore, Jonathan was risking his life to save
> these people. You don't do that because you are lonely. You do that
> because you have come to a place where you recognize the humanity in
people.
He had let go of the past? While he was BACK in the high school in the
basement?
Ooookay.
> >> nimue
> >>
> >> "...but I want you to know I did save you... not when it counted of
> >> course, but after that. Every night after that...every night I save
> >> you." Spike to Buffy After Life
> >> Gosh, when Spike says heartfelt, sincere things like that -- things
> >> straight from his full heart, well, it just makes you wonder why
> >> women are crazy about him, doesn't it?
> >
> > -- Ken from Chicago
>
> --
> nimue
>
> "...but I want you to know I did save you... not when it counted of
> course, but after that. Every night after that...every night I save
> you." Spike to Buffy After Life
>
> Gosh, when Spike says heartfelt, sincere things like that -- things
> straight from his full heart, well, it just makes you wonder why women
> are crazy about him, doesn't it?
Yeah, revealing FEELINGS? What woman wants that in a guy? Sheesh.
-- Ken from Chicago
nimue
He had matured, and so it became obvious to him that they probably had, too.
>However wanted to go
> back to high school or a previous time is a common wish when current
> times are hard because at least before the problems were familiar.
I don't get that at all. He wasn't trying to go back in time. He wasn't
calling up his old classmates. He clearly said "time goes by and everything
drops away." He had moved to that place that you get to as an adult --
where you start seeing people as human, not just in terms of their place in
your past. His curiosity about his old classmates is normal. He was in the
old HS, trying to save the world.
> The current problems have the added factor of being unknown, and a
> lot of people fear the unknown, the future, as undiscovered country.
>
>>> Or maybe he was simply afraid of being . . . ALONE.
>>>
>>> There is a loneliness so deep, so profound, so heartbreaking that
>>> the even the torment of one's worst enemy is preferable.
Maybe, but that does not apply in this case. Jonathan wasn't looking for
old friends or enemies -- he was just musing about them while in the place
where they had all been together. That's not unusual.
>>
>> I don't agree. He wasn't seeking any of his old friends or enemies
>> out. He wasn't looking for companionship. He just had a good will
>> for them. He had let go of the past. Furthermore, Jonathan was
>> risking his life to save these people. You don't do that because
>> you are lonely. You do that because you have come to a place where
>> you recognize the humanity in people.
>
> He had let go of the past? While he was BACK in the high school in the
> basement?
>
> Ooookay.
He HAD to be there -- he was trying to save the world, not hang out with
people who had graduated. Didn't you get that? Trust me, if the seal had
been somewhere else, he would have been somewhere else.
>
snip
>>>
>>
>> --
>> nimue
>>
>> "...but I want you to know I did save you... not when it counted of
>> course, but after that. Every night after that...every night I save
>> you." Spike to Buffy After Life
>>
>> Gosh, when Spike says heartfelt, sincere things like that -- things
>> straight from his full heart, well, it just makes you wonder why
>> women are crazy about him, doesn't it?
>
> Yeah, revealing FEELINGS? What woman wants that in a guy? Sheesh.
You are kidding, right?
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
nimue
Mister Canada
> Once Upon A Time Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
> >Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
> >considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
> >Giles, right?
>
> learns that Tara is Willow's girlfriend. Cracks me up every time.
>
>
Admiral, as I sit reading this here post with Jungle Boogie balsting
out of my speakers, I'd have to say the above was pretty good.
But the best ever?
No.
The second best ever is Willow saying "I think I'm kinda gay".
Its really good when attractive chicks are gay and kiss each other-its
MAGIC.
Detestable 3somes like GAYDO, CRAPPER SAMMER and Yolanda Ballard-keep
it in the closet, you sick freaks.
The best quote ever would have to be Captain Canader saying "DUMBASS
BTR1701, REMOVE YOURSELF FROM USENET ALTOGETHER"
Admiral, that's my favourite quote from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Lamer won't be home for Christmas.
Lamer's DEAD.
Rachel Corrie won't be in Gaza for Hannukah.
RAchel Corrie is DEAD.
HTH
> **
> Captain Infinity
> ..."Come back! Those are prescription pants!" --Comic Book Guy
Captain Infinity
Tirya wrote:
>"Rowan Hawthorn" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:werFb.3650950$Id.5...@news.easynews.com...
>
>> Actually, it was: "I'm seeing someone."
>> And out of all of Willow's great lines, *that* one is the definitive? HA!
>> It is to laugh!
>>
>> One of my favorites:
>
>Some of my favorite Willow lines:
>
>"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange."
>
>"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel. A
>vague disclaimer is nobody's friend."
>
My favorite Willow line: "PEZ!"
**
Captain Infinity
...it's 10:00 ...do you know where your pants are?
steele
"you came back wrong."
JinX
Ken from Chicago
"JinX" <jin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13d78654.03122...@posting.google.com...
> "I might be dead.... but I'm still pretty." -Buffy Summers (Prophecy Girl)
"Nice dress."--pert near everyone in 'Prophecy Girl'.
-- Ken from Chicago
William George Ferguson
Buffy: "Yeah, yeah, big hit with everyone."
By the way, doing a quick check to make sure I did the quote right,
there was a big foreshadowing of Faith's take on the results of
Slaying. Buffy's three lines immediately before the above (which was
the last line of the episode)
Buffy (interspersed with nattering by Willow, Giles,Jenny, Xander, and
Cordelia)
"I'm hungry."
"Is anybody else hungry?"
"I'm really, really, hungry."
Ken from Chicago
"William George Ferguson" <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:p4jmuvgg299402pg7...@4ax.com...
Dream-Faith described Buffy as a "Big Sister" in S3's season finale,
"Graduation Day" and Dream-Tara hinted that Buffy would gain a sister in
S4's season finale, "Restless".
S4's "Something Blue" foreshadowed S/B ship to come and S5's "Crush" had
Buffy, Willow and Tara commenting how a romance with someone who's amoral is
doomed--especially if he's "all bumpy".
-- Ken from Chicago
Kristine
>"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
>news:8tadnTTLM8i...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in
>message
>> news:q8OdnesN3ZE...@comcast.com...
>> > Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
>> > considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote
>from
>> > Giles, right?
>> >
>> > -- Ken from Chicago
>>
>> Woops, of course the best quote ever for the lead characters, Buffy and
>> Angel are obvious:
>>
>> "Hi, I'm 'Buffy', the vampire slayer, and you are?"
>>
>
>
>I like Angel's variant of that - "My name is Angel, what's yours?" Someone
>DOES know the reference, right?
No! :(
K ~ please tell .... 8^))
Can Altinbay
news:hn0nuv0fffg21m507...@4ax.com...
The reference is to a line the girl who became Gypsy Rose Lee used in her
shows, "My name is Gypsy - what's YOURS?". The name varies depending on
what she is called at the time. Her mother had her and her sister use the
line all the time. See the show/movie "Gypsy".
Reginald Bautista
> As for Spike, I love his response when Buffy told him to explain what he
was
> doing under her window in five words or fewer. He counts on his fingers
as
> he says, "Out for a walk...bitch."
That's definitely one of the best ever. A few others...
Giles, in Dead Man's Party "Look at my mask. Isn't it pretty? It raises
the dead. Americans."
Buffy, in Homecoming "Cordy, spatula!"
Xander, in The Zeppo "I've never been up with people before."
Buffy, in Helpless "If I were at full Slayer strength, I'd be punning right
about now."
Oz, in Earshot -- I don't have the exact quote but it's what Buffy hears him
thinking, this very long and elaborate philosophical questioning of whether
he really exists other than in her mind.
Can you tell I just recently watched my Season 3 DVD set? :-)
Reggie
Reginald Bautista
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:221220030316025126%dsa...@synapse.net...
> Sometimes the old quotes are the best quotes:
> Glory -- No Place Like Home, Blood Ties
Same quote, only from VampWillow at the end of Dopplegangland after having
been sent back to her own alternate universe Sunnydale. :-)
Reggie
Ken from Chicago
"Reginald Bautista" <rbau...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:FwvHb.192291$Eq1.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
No, VampWillow was clearly saying "Oh, fudge".
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
Oz (thinks): <"I am my thoughts. If they exist in her, Buffy contains
everything that is me and she becomes me. I cease to exist-">
Oz: "Hmm..."
[Xander thinks about sex, much to Buffy's disgust. Wes and Giles talk. Buffy
and Willow talk.]
Oz: <"No one else exists either. Buffy is all of us. We think. Therefore,
she is.">
-- Ken from Chicago
Rowan Hawthorn
And then the punch line - while everyone else is thinking one thing and
saying another, Cordelia's thoughts come out of her mouth word-for-word...
Vince Macek
>
> Oz (thinks): <"I am my thoughts. If they exist in her, Buffy contains
> everything that is me and she becomes me. I cease to exist-">
> Oz: "Hmm..."
> [Xander thinks about sex, much to Buffy's disgust. Wes and Giles talk. Buffy
> and Willow talk.]
> Oz: <"No one else exists either. Buffy is all of us. We think. Therefore,
> she is.">
>
anxiously declares Buffy will know Oz better than she will; Buffy
emphatically reassures her she won't.
I remember reading this episode's transcript way before seeing it and
of course heard Wesley's thought in the *exact* tone it was given -
"...look at Cordelia. NO! DON'T look at her; she's a student! Oh, I'm
a bad man! I'm a bad, bad man!!"
VMacek
Reginald Bautista
Ahem... Sorry, you are correct, I fudged that one up completely :-)
Reggie
Ken from Chicago
Don't sweat it. At it wasn't fudged up beyond all recognition.
-- Ken from Chicago
Kristine
KeewwwL....
Thanks for that 8^))
K
Vince Macek
So, was that part of Angel's Gypsy curse?
VMacek
Randy Money
> Once Upon A Time Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
>
>>considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
>>Giles, right?
>
>
> learns that Tara is Willow's girlfriend. Cracks me up every time.
>
I think I prefer the "Oh, bloody hell!" from when he was shot in the
rump with a tranquilizer dart.
One of my favorites (only roughly remembered, no doubt): "I managed to
see the body while the police were taking witness arias."
Randy
Randy Money
> "Tom Breton" <te...@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com> wrote in message
> news:m3fzfco...@mail.panix.com...
>
>>My two cents:
>>
>>Xander: (loudly) Nothing can defeat the penis!
>>
[...]
>
>>Xander: Can I be blind too? ("Something Blue")
My favorite,
Xander: "How? -- What? -- How?"
[Giles: "Three excellent questions.")
Randy M.
Randy Money
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<q8OdnesN3ZE...@comcast.com>...
>
>>Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes, when
>>considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best quote from
>>Giles, right?
>
>
>
> I've got a bunch, but as the holidays loom and I have to deal with my
> fundie family:
>
> "Please! Like shame is something to be proud of?"
> "Yeah? You smell sin, lady? Well let me tell you something: she who
> smelt it dealt it!"
>
> Aura
Oh, wish I could remember the exact sequence of dialog, but when Tara's
father is bully here and asks whether she's seriously planning on
staying with the Scoobs, and Buffy respond's "We're family." Dead on
perfect.
Randy M.
L Pierce
complexion. Can we *please* talk about the ascension
L.
--
If you don't like my fire,
Then don't come around.
Cause I'm gonna burn one down.
James Craine
Ken from Chicago wrote:
>>
>>My favorite Willow/Tara moment was when, during the frenzy of Anya's
>>pre-wedding, Willow fleetingly cops a feel of Tara's right breast.
>>Yowsa!
>
>
> NO WAY! LIAR! You're making that up. No way even UPN would let that
> onscreen.
>
On Charmed one sister touches another sisters breasts to
make her blouse show more cleavage (to distract some guys),
of course this was non-sexual and that might matter to a censor.
Ken from Chicago
"James Craine" <James...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mp9Ib.560767$0v4.22...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
That's different. CHARMED debuted last year with Alyssa Milano as a mermaid
wearing only pasties.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Randy Money" <rbm...@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu> wrote in message
news:3FF07EC4...@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu...
Psst:
Mr. Maclay: "This is insane. You people have no right to interfere. We're
her blood kin. Who are you?"
Buffy: "We're family."
http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/season5/transcripts/84_tran.shtml
-- Ken from Chicago
Randy Money
> "Randy Money" <rbm...@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu> wrote in message
> news:3FF07EC4...@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu...
>
[...]
>>>I've got a bunch, but as the holidays loom and I have to deal with my
>>>fundie family:
>>>
>>>"Please! Like shame is something to be proud of?"
>>>"Yeah? You smell sin, lady? Well let me tell you something: she who
>>>smelt it dealt it!"
>>>
>>>Aura
>>
>>Oh, wish I could remember the exact sequence of dialog, but when Tara's
>>father is bully here and asks whether she's seriously planning on
>>staying with the Scoobs, and Buffy respond's "We're family." Dead on
>>perfect.
>>
>>Randy M.
>>
>
>
> Psst:
>
> Mr. Maclay: "This is insane. You people have no right to interfere. We're
> her blood kin. Who are you?"
> Buffy: "We're family."
>
> http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/season5/transcripts/84_tran.shtml
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
Thanks, Ken. Knew someone would come through.
Randy M.
(Thanks, too, for the URL)
drifter
> Captain Infinity wrote:
>> Once Upon A Time Ken from Chicago wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Clearly "I'd like to test that theory" is one of the top 20 quotes,
>>> when considered in context, of both series, but is shirley the best
>>> quote from Giles, right?
>>
>>
>> My favorite Giles quote is "Bloody hell!" when he, in his drunken
>> state, learns that Tara is Willow's girlfriend. Cracks me up every
>> time.
>>
>
> I think I prefer the "Oh, bloody hell!" from when he was shot in the
> rump with a tranquilizer dart.
Hmmm. I think he said, "Bloody priceless!" Could be wrong.
>
> One of my favorites (only roughly remembered, no doubt): "I managed to
> see the body while the police were taking witness arias."
>
>
> Randy
--
Kel
_______________________________________________________
"Oh, Buffy. You really need to have every square inch of your ass
licked." Darth Willow, kinda gay.
John Briggs
> Randy Money wrote:
>> Captain Infinity wrote:
>>> My favorite Giles quote is "Bloody hell!" when he, in his drunken
>>> state, learns that Tara is Willow's girlfriend. Cracks me up every
>>> time.
>>>
>>
>> I think I prefer the "Oh, bloody hell!" from when he was shot in the
>> rump with a tranquilizer dart.
>
>
> Hmmm. I think he said, "Bloody priceless!" Could be wrong.
>
"Oh, right. Bloody priceless."
--
John Briggs
Espen Schjønberg
wrote:
>My favorite quote from Giles ("Innocence"):
>
>GILES: No. I don't believe it is. Do you want me to wag my finger at
>you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did. And I can. I know that
>you loved him. And he has proven more than once that he loved you. You
>couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months are going to be
>hard. I suspect on all of us, but ... if it's guilt you're looking for,
>Buffy, I'm, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is, is my support.
>And my respect.
But did he understand what happened? In Amends, several weeks after
being informed that Angel was a) cured b) back...
...he steps on Angel for what Angelus did.
Ok, I didn't realise how much nonsense this makes at first myself, but
given that Giles is a watcher and all, he should know better than
holding Angel responsibel for what Angelus had done...
BTW, after watching The Prodigal, I finaly realised what (some here)
tried telling me before: of course, it is (almost) pointless for Angel
to feel so responsibel for Angelus deeds, he is stuffed into the
corpse Angelus used and has his memories, but it wasn't him, and all
he ever did was to drink some blood- and he says it himself: " But
sometimes the price we end up paying for one bad choice isn’t
commensurate with the offence.” "
Anyhow, big point: why isn't Giles supposed to se how pointless it is
to point at Angel wih a crossbow? Saying this "Sorry - from you -
hahaha..." stuff...
--
Espen
Rob
"Espen Schjønberg" <ess...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3ff53c61....@nntp.uio.no...
It's not so pointless for Angel to feel responsible. Angel isn't all
that different than Angelus. Both are quite a bit different than Liam, but
Liam exists within both. Angel isn't being stuffed into a corpse. The demon
still exists within him, with the soul, and it still has a very large
influence over Angel's actions. Angel does try to supress his demon, but
it's an endevour that he'll never be completely successful at.
Both Angel and Angelus loved Buffy, although both had different ways of
expressing it. Angelus followed his MO of stalking Buffy and putting her
through various forms of torture. Both also had feelings for Darla. Both had
feelings for Dru. A lot of Angel's actions are questionable. Not so much on
Buffy, but definetly on Angel. It's been hinted at on Angel that although
the differences between Angel and Angelus appear to be great, the addition
of the soul is actually a miniscule change in personality. Case in point,
Angel is damned for Angelus's sins.
If anything, the soul only gives Angel a stronger moral compass, mainly
through feelings of intense guilt, which forces on him restraint from his
true desires.
Theron Mann
...
> But did [Giles]understand what happened? In Amends, several weeks after
> being informed that Angel was a) cured b) back...
>
> ...he steps on Angel for what Angelus did.
>
> Ok, I didn't realise how much nonsense this makes at first myself, but
> given that Giles is a watcher and all, he should know better than
> holding Angel responsibel for what Angelus had done...
>
> BTW, after watching The Prodigal, I finaly realised what (some here)
> tried telling me before: of course, it is (almost) pointless for Angel
> to feel so responsibel for Angelus deeds, he is stuffed into the
> corpse Angelus used and has his memories, but it wasn't him, and all
> he ever did was to drink some blood- and he says it himself: " But
> commensurate with the offence.? "
>
> Anyhow, big point: why isn't Giles supposed to se how pointless it is
> to point at Angel wih a crossbow? Saying this "Sorry - from you -
> hahaha..." stuff...
1) Giles doesn't know any more about souled vampires than we do. This
one seems the most likely. The watchers don't have a lot of advice
for Buffy or Angel about what it means for a vampire to have a soul.
IIRC, when we first meet Angel, Giles doesn't even know that he has a
soul, just that he used to be one of the biggest bads, then dropped
off the evil top ten.
2) Giles knows *more* about ensouled vamps than we do, and what he
knows causes him to blame Angel for Angelus's actions. As I become
more of a redemptionist, I like this more and more. Angel/Angelus is
like flipping a light-switch, but Spike isn't a ton different sans
soul, and Harmony might not be *any* different if you gave her her
soul back.
3) Giles might be so distraught over Jenny's death, and the manner in
which he found her, that he's not thinking rationally. I can see this
one too. Giles would be looking for someone to blame (besides himself
and Jenny) and Angel would fit the bill.
himiko
>
> I see three possibilities.
>
I think all three of your possibilities are true...including 1 and 2
which seem total opposites.
> 1) Giles doesn't know any more about souled vampires than we do. This
> one seems the most likely. The watchers don't have a lot of advice
> for Buffy or Angel about what it means for a vampire to have a soul.
> IIRC, when we first meet Angel, Giles doesn't even know that he has a
> soul, just that he used to be one of the biggest bads, then dropped
> off the evil top ten.
And the CoW obviously hasn't got a clue as late as near the end of
S3...unless they know more as per suggestion 2 and that's why they
refuse. Also Wes' "dad" still didn't seem to grasp the implication of
Angel (and Spike) having a soul; yeah, I know he wasn't really Roger
W-P, but he had all his programming. My feeling is that even if/when
the CoW knows more about souled vampires, they don't let it affect
their thinking.
As for Giles specifically, his initial reaction to finding out about
Angel was watchful caution. Later, slowly, he began to trust...only
to be betrayed. I doubt his report entitled "Vampires: Ensouling of"
which is now an official part of the CoW handbook was terribly
positive.
I don't think the CoW is interested in finding out more about anything
to do with vampires except dusting them more effectively. Wes also
didn't seem terribly impressed or curious when he first found out
about Angel. And Giles wasn't curious about Spike's soul.
I think the CoW attitude is that it doesn't matter. They are in a
war. Understanding the enemy beyond the tactical need is pointless.
They certainly aren't about to let it affect their behavior and
thinking about such things (like the enemy's possibly remaining
humanity) only makes it harder for them to do what they need to do.
Giles still has that attitude major league; Wes has gotten over a lot
of it.
>
> 2) Giles knows *more* about ensouled vamps than we do, and what he
> knows causes him to blame Angel for Angelus's actions. As I become
> more of a redemptionist, I like this more and more. Angel/Angelus is
> like flipping a light-switch, but Spike isn't a ton different sans
> soul, and Harmony might not be *any* different if you gave her her
> soul back.
You'll notice Giles also didn't trust ensouled Spike any further than
he could toss him. I suspect he may know a bit more than we do and
more than the CoW does about ensouled vampires. I suspect he did a
lot of independent research about what souls can or cannot do when he
first found out about Angel. He may also have researched Liam to try
to determine what Liam+demon+soul might or might not be capable of.
Apparently he wasn't that impressed, since he remained very cautious.
He relaxed only when he realized that Angel was something beyond
Liam+demon+soul. Then Jenny died and he decided even that wasn't
enough.
I don't think he found any information about ensouled vampires per se.
He would/should have shared that with us. Now, of course, we do know
more because we've seen a second one (third if you count Darla) who
doesn't do a Jeckle/Hyde and we've seen Harmony where the vampirism
doesn't seem to mean much one way or the other. But Giles didn't know
all that in Amends, and by now, he no longer seems to care.
> 3) Giles might be so distraught over Jenny's death, and the manner in
> which he found her, that he's not thinking rationally. I can see this
> one too. Giles would be looking for someone to blame (besides himself
> and Jenny) and Angel would fit the bill.
And of course, that's the biggie. Giles tries to be Mr.
Dispassionate, but he isn't.
himiko
Ice Queen
> being informed that Angel was a) cured b) back...
>
> ...he steps on Angel for what Angelus did.
>
> Ok, I didn't realise how much nonsense this makes at first myself, but
> given that Giles is a watcher and all, he should know better than
> holding Angel responsibel for what Angelus had done...
<blink> Are you kidding? You think it was absurd of Giles to not trust
the guy who tortured him? It doesn't matter to Giles that Angelus
isn't Angel. If anything, I think S3 Giles let Angel and Buffy off the
hook too easily. Throughout that season, I'm stunned by Buffy's
insensitivity to how Giles must have felt when she went right back to
the guy who tortured Giles. *Knowing* that Angel isn't Angelus doesn't
just make the trauma of *hours* of torture go 'poof.'
Aura
Ken from Chicago
"Ice Queen" <nard...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7ab6382.04010...@posting.google.com...
Except it wasn't the guy who tortured Giles. It's like blaming NB for
something his twin brother did, or being mad at Xander for something
HyenaXander did or Willow for something VampWillow did or Buffy for
something Buffybot did--even tho visually they are reminiscent.
-- Ken from Chicago
JJ Karhu
<kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>Except it wasn't the guy who tortured Giles. It's like blaming NB for
>something his twin brother did, or being mad at Xander for something
>HyenaXander did or Willow for something VampWillow did or Buffy for
>something Buffybot did--even tho visually they are reminiscent.
It was the same guy, there was only that soul thingamabob that was the
difference. Angel was also perfectly capable of torture, it's just
that his souls made him feel uncomfortable doing it :)
// JJ
3D Master
Except that Buffy getting back with Angel (especially since he admitted
that part of him didn't care Angelus would return if he could only make
love to her again) will destroy Angel and bring forth Angelus again.
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/
Tammy Stephanie Davis
:"Ice Queen" <nard...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Not exactly. Because the demon Angelus is still within Angel, and
Giles know this. Yes, *Angel* didn't kill Jenny Calendar and *Angel*
didn't torture Giles for hours, but the thing that did was still
within Angel. So though unfair, its quite understandable given
what Giles had gone through that he had difficulty trusting the
distinction.
--
A.E. Jabbour
> On 23 Dec 2003 04:40:50 GMT, aej17D...@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour)
> wrote:
>>My favorite quote from Giles ("Innocence"):
>>
>>GILES: No. I don't believe it is. Do you want me to wag my finger at
>>you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did. And I can. I know that
>>you loved him. And he has proven more than once that he loved you. You
>>couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months are going to be
>>hard. I suspect on all of us, but ... if it's guilt you're looking for,
>>Buffy, I'm, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is, is my support.
>>And my respect.
>
> But did he understand what happened? In Amends, several weeks after
> being informed that Angel was a) cured b) back...
>
> ...he steps on Angel for what Angelus did.
I'm not sure I understand you.
The quote I gave was from S2 "Innocence." Obviously, by the time that
"Amends" occurs, there's a lot more water under the bridge. Nontheless,
Giles not only lets Angel into his home, he eventually works to help
Angel.
--
AE Jabbour
"OK, at this point, you're *abusing* sarcasm."
-Buffy Anne Summers, NKaBotFD
Ken from Chicago
"JJ Karhu" <kur...@modeemi.fi> wrote in message
news:a3edvv8kshuaak4bv...@4ax.com...
Nope. It was the demon Angelus in Angel's body.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"3D Master" <3d.m...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:FNyJb.150756$Jh....@amsnews03.chello.com...
Preaching to the choir. Just another reason why SPUFFY 4 EVA!
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Tammy Stephanie Davis" <t...@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:zBAJb.437$Nz2....@news.itd.umich.edu...
So Fred should blame Wes for trying to rape and / or kill her (and not
necessarily in that order)?
-- Ken from Chicago
Tammy Stephanie Davis
No. I wasn't avocating blaming Angel for Angelus' actions. I said
that given what Angelus did to Giles, i.e. killing the woman he loved
and torturing him for hours, that its understandable Giles would
have difficulty separating what Angelus did from Angel.
Saying that I understand Giles' inital reaction to Angel in Amends
doesn't mean I thought Giles was right or fair. In fact, I said that
he was being unfair.
--
Ken from Chicago
"Tammy Stephanie Davis" <t...@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:SlCJb.445$Nz2....@news.itd.umich.edu...
<snip>
> :So Fred should blame Wes for trying to rape and / or kill her (and not
> :necessarily in that order)?
>
> No. I wasn't avocating blaming Angel for Angelus' actions. I said
> that given what Angelus did to Giles, i.e. killing the woman he loved
> and torturing him for hours, that its understandable Giles would
> have difficulty separating what Angelus did from Angel.
>
> Saying that I understand Giles' inital reaction to Angel in Amends
> doesn't mean I thought Giles was right or fair. In fact, I said that
> he was being unfair.
> --
Woops, I stand corrected.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"st" <stri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iqvdvv8nhnleu7s9b...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:32:09 -0600, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> >Nope. It was the demon Angelus in Angel's body.
>
>
> Its Liam's dead body with a demon in it.
>
> Sometimes it also contains a soul.
>
> The demon doesn't go away when the soul is there.
> Angel/us is the same guy.
>
> The soul just makes the DEMON in Liam's corpse feel guilt for what
> it's done.
>
> You can argue the nature of self all you like, but the show is based
> around Angel seeking redemption..... for HIS past. If you don't accept
> that, then you ignore the premise of the show.
>
> "To fight evil - and atone for his crimes."
>
> st
You mean like the writers? I mean if he could atone, then why don't he try
and save the vampires instead of wantonly killing them? If they vampires are
hopeless and helpless then why did Angel let Darla go? Why did Cordy let
Harmony go?
Then again, hasn't he stated repeatedly he can't atone for his crimes?
Wasn't that his big Moment of Epiphany?
Sorry, the shows themselves are inconsistant about the nature of the rules
of the Buffyverse they created.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:16:38 -0600, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> >You mean like the writers?
>
>
> >I mean if he could atone, then why don't he try
> >and save the vampires instead of wantonly killing them?
>
>
> >If they vampires are
> >hopeless and helpless then why did Angel let Darla go?
>
>
> >Why did Cordy let
> >Harmony go?
>
> good at what they do, and humans have emotions.
>
> >Then again, hasn't he stated repeatedly he can't atone for his crimes?
> >Wasn't that his big Moment of Epiphany?
>
> possible from what we have seen.
>
> >Sorry, the shows themselves are inconsistant about the nature of the
rules
> >of the Buffyverse they created.
>
> of what it is to be a vampire in Joss's world.
>
> The fact you would write it differently doesn't make it inconsistent.
>
> st
>
> --
> Bad people are punished by society's law
> And good people are punished by murphy's law
> GL,DLM
Clearly my way would be best.
-- Ken from Chicago (who's ego DOES indeed fit inside his apartment
building--barely)
The Babaloughesian
> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:32:09 -0600, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> >Nope. It was the demon Angelus in Angel's body.
>
>
> Its Liam's dead body with a demon in it.
>
> Sometimes it also contains a soul.
>
> The demon doesn't go away when the soul is there.
> Angel/us is the same guy.
>
> The soul just makes the DEMON in Liam's corpse feel guilt for what
> it's done.
>
> You can argue the nature of self all you like, but the show is based
> around Angel seeking redemption..... for HIS past. If you don't accept
> that, then you ignore the premise of the show.
Frankly, I think the show's better when I ignore the supposed premise.
Reginald Bautista
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:IrydnQyRDpY...@comcast.com...
But even with a soul, Angel has been capable of doing much evil, torturing
folks, even killing when it would get him what he wanted. For examples,
watch just about any season 2 episode betwen The Trial and Disharmony, or
season 3's Forgiving. The soul makes some difference, but not necessarily a
lot.
Reggie
Reginald Bautista
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:a4SdnQqUN9Z...@comcast.com...
Yes and no. Wes clearly liked Fred before that point, his baser desires
were let loose and amplified. He never would have done that sort of thing
to her.
Except, oh wait, we see a much darker side of Wes let loose without any
magical influence between the end of season 3's Forgiving and middle to late
season 4, and even in season 5 in Lineage.
So was Giles absolutely justified? Probably not. Was he somewhat
justified, or in any way right, to treat Angel the way he did. Most
certainly.
Reggie
Tammy Stephanie Davis
Reginald Bautista <rbau...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
:
:"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
In the case of Angel/Angelus, the soul makes a huge difference - especially
to humans in the immediate vicinity. The soul is the difference between
Angelus killing everyone you love while slowly torturing/killing you and
Angel - with rare exceptions - pretty much leaving you alone.
--
Ice Queen
> Except it wasn't the guy who tortured Giles.
Whatever souly "angel isn't angelus" there may be, that *doesn't
matter*. Should Buffy have gone right back to Spike in S7 after he
tried to rape her a few months ago? Of course not. People agreed with
Buffy to show caution in S7; but you're saying Giles should just "get
over" his more severe trauma -- Spike *almost* raped Buffy; Angelus
*did* torture Giles for hours. The pain, loss of control, and
degredation Giles experienced would have caused extreme trauma.
> or being mad at Xander for something
> HyenaXander did or Willow for something VampWillow did or Buffy for
> something Buffybot did--even tho visually they are reminiscent.
*We* are allowed to understand the rules and feel for these characters
according to them. We're objective. Buffy and Giles are anything but
objective when it comes to Spike and Angel/us, respectively.
Aura
Ken from Chicago
"Reginald Bautista" <rbau...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hpJJb.40026$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Precisely. Angel with a soul has been almost as bad as Spike without one.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
message news:<dMGdnVYiy8B...@comcast.com>...
> > Except it wasn't the guy who tortured Giles.
>
> Whatever souly "angel isn't angelus" there may be, that *doesn't
> matter*. Should Buffy have gone right back to Spike in S7 after he
> tried to rape her a few months ago? Of course not. People agreed with
> Buffy to show caution in S7; but you're saying Giles should just "get
> over" his more severe trauma -- Spike *almost* raped Buffy; Angelus
> *did* torture Giles for hours. The pain, loss of control, and
> degredation Giles experienced would have caused extreme trauma.
Despite being a redemptionist and an S/B shipper, even right after "Seeing
Red", I thought SR would be the "hitting bottom" to trigger Spike fulfilling
the former, but with only one season left, I was sure no way on the planet
Joss could even pull off a realistic fulfilment of the latter, and have it
be believable. I like science fiction and fantasy, but I'm not crazy.
No, I'm not saying Giles should have "gotten over" the trauma. While Giles
was clearly in the wrong--it was a perfectly understandable and clearly
human reaction. I see Giles behind the wheel as he runs me down on a
sidewalk as he's driving out of an auto shoip, I too am gonna be a bit
miffed even when I find out his mechanic ruined his brakes.
> > or being mad at Xander for something
> > HyenaXander did or Willow for something VampWillow did or Buffy for
> > something Buffybot did--even tho visually they are reminiscent.
>
> *We* are allowed to understand the rules and feel for these characters
> according to them. We're objective. Buffy and Giles are anything but
> objective when it comes to Spike and Angel/us, respectively.
>
> Aura
I think it's over the long-run that the feelings would, or should be
modified by rationale--or at least their actions would be modified. And that
still doesn't explain Angel holier-than-thou attitude toward Spike. At least
the others aren't as virulently hateful towards, including Harmony and Wes.
Buffy managed to "get along" with Faith, eventually, despite what Faith did
to her, her friends--and her boyfriend.
-- Ken from Chicago
Renee
All the bad that Angel did with a soul, could be shown as acting
human. He only hurt bad people and after they had constantly hurt him.
It's much better than Angelus killing for his own pleasure. I wouldn't
be afraid to be alone with Angel.
I think the soul also took the need/want to torture and kill away.
Blood is a different matter, since he needs that to stay alive.
Renee
Espen Schjønberg
wrote:
>Ken from Chicago wrote:
>>>ess...@excite.com (Espen Schjønberg) wrote in message
>>
>> news:<3ff53c61....@nntp.uio.no>...
>>
>>>>But did he understand what happened? In Amends, several weeks after
>>>>being informed that Angel was a) cured b) back...
>>>>
>>>>...he steps on Angel for what Angelus did.
>>>>
...[snippety]
>> It's like blaming NB for
>> something his twin brother did, or being mad at Xander for something
>> HyenaXander did or Willow for something VampWillow did or Buffy for
>> something Buffybot did--even tho visually they are reminiscent.
>>
>> -- Ken from Chicago
>
>Except that Buffy getting back with Angel (especially since he admitted
>that part of him didn't care Angelus would return if he could only make
>love to her again) will destroy Angel and bring forth Angelus again.
Now, they know this is not good. Anyone asking Buffy, like Xander:
"next time you give him a happy?", so much desavuate (I was sure this
was a word, but I can't find it now. Well. Tell me if you don't get
what I mean;-)) Buffy.
That Angel want to give up, is just the _human_ in him. I _really_
love the Buffy episode "Amends".
That humans has the potential to do evil if they want to is not the
Slayers problem as such. It is Buffys problem in this episodes,
because she happens to love the person in question. And because this
will give her a harder job as a slayer, but that is _not_ the point
"yet".
Remember that humans can be good or bad, but has potential for both.
That ensouled vampires behave not-predictable is a given thing.
Angel wanting to give up, is however not a monster that turn from NEET
to evil- it is a human that may turn from Struggling to Gone. And
should be treated like that. Killing Angel before he gives up, is
almost out of the Slayers job-description (as those who wrote that,
not knew of ensouled vampires.) This is police business untill the
soul is gone, not that they can handle it, but that's another problem.
The "killing" in season two was Buffys choice to save the world- and
really her first killing of an innocent human. (supposedly, saved by
DB's high rating there;-)) I guess you noticed how hard it was, and
what Whistler told her. And how much she refused to do the same thing
with Dawn.
--
Espen
Unbound I
sans soul) have killed it has typically been for their own enjoyment. Angelus
enjoys the torture and the mind games he plays with his victims - he thrives
off breaking them down emotionally and psychologically and then ending their
lives completely. For Spike (sans soul), he is much more interested in simply
killing. He has no interest in the games Angelus likes to play, he merely wants
to take a life and be done with it and move on to the next victim. But in each
instance, the killing is done for their own pleasure.
When Angel has stumbled, I never got the sense he did so out of some
perverse sense of enjoyment. He enters a very dark place, but he derives no
pleasure from being there. It is the pain and torment of his life which drives
him there and only the ultimate desire for redemption (which, of course, is
what the series is all about) which brings him out of the abyss.
Angel with his soul is very much a human being, trying desperately to find
the right path for his own life and make ammends for the wrongs he has done.
Angelus and Spike (sans soul) are killing machines whose existences are based
on the body count they accumulate and the pleasure they derive from
systematically ending the lives of those that come into their paths.
There is a significant difference between these characters in my opinion.
Unbound I
Check out my book about The X-Files at
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himiko
>
> All the bad that Angel did with a soul, could be shown as acting
> human. He only hurt bad people and after they had constantly hurt him.
Not entirely. Early on, there wasn't that much of a difference
between Angel and Angelus. Angel killed people who had done him no
harm early on just to impress Darla so she would take him back. He
tried to pick "bad people," but that was pure self justification.
> It's much better than Angelus killing for his own pleasure. I wouldn't
> be afraid to be alone with Angel.
I think your personal danger detector needs a tune-up. Angel is
certainly less dangerous than Angelus (heck, S2 Spike was less
dangerous than Angelus), but he's still a major danger zone. He hates
being that...well part of him does. It's part of his attraction.
> I think the soul also took the need/want to torture and kill away.
> Blood is a different matter, since he needs that to stay alive.
Oh, I doubt that. Angel is still very much like Angelus in this
regard, just playing for the other side. One scene I recall a lot
these days from BTVS was the scene in WML was when Angel tortured
Spike by implying that Dru was more aroused by him and his cruelty
than she was by Spike's devoted love. The purpose in that scene was
good, to drive Spike to kill him before he could be used to cure Dru
and kill Buffy, but the joy he took in it was evident and we've seen
the same joy in the same act several times now out of Angelus when
torturing Spike. We saw it by the end of S2.
There have also been scenes in AtS, and not just in S2 when he went
dark. Some scenes that stand out for me are when he tortured whatsit
from W&H to try to find out how to get Connor back from Quartoth, when
he threatened that parole officer to find out where Lindsey's evil
hand came from ("Can't you just smell the butterfat?"), and most
recently when he locked Pavayne in that box. You can't tell me he
didn't enjoy doing those things. He hated that he enjoyed it, but he
enjoyed it. If not, someone needs to speak to DB about how he's
portraying his character. It's not going to be me, though. I love
this aspect of how he portrays Angel.
I think this aspect of the character was also pretty well revealed in
Billy when the misogyny blast didn't work on Angel. He gave a
different excuse, but my feeling was that it had no effect because
Angel's hatred of women and desire to torment them is pretty much
always at that level; unlike Billy, though, he feels it for men too
and pretty much anything else that can feel pain. He keeps it in
check. He is ashamed of being that way. Even when he has a
legitimate reason to cause pain, he tries to hold back because he
knows he enjoys it too much...until and unless something drives him
past that point.
Feel safe with Angel? I don't think so.
himiko
Renee
> rshi...@hotmail.com (Renee) wrote in message news:<f6980f4e.04010...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > All the bad that Angel did with a soul, could be shown as acting
> > human. He only hurt bad people and after they had constantly hurt him.
>
> Not entirely. Early on, there wasn't that much of a difference
> between Angel and Angelus. Angel killed people who had done him no
> harm early on just to impress Darla so she would take him back. He
> tried to pick "bad people," but that was pure self justification.
Since he was newly souled and didn't know what to do, I'd give him a
pass. The important thing is that he stopped. I believe that the guilt
from killing even murderers, rapists, and theives was too much for him
(that and Darla trying to get him to eat a baby.)
>
> > It's much better than Angelus killing for his own pleasure. I wouldn't
> > be afraid to be alone with Angel.
>
> I think your personal danger detector needs a tune-up. Angel is
> certainly less dangerous than Angelus (heck, S2 Spike was less
> dangerous than Angelus), but he's still a major danger zone. He hates
> being that...well part of him does. It's part of his attraction.
We have never seen any of the women (or men) that Angel helped as
being in any danger. There was the woman in the first episode of Angel
who was bleeding, but he didn't drink from her. I'm not a bad guy, so
I don't think I would have anything to worry about.
>
> > I think the soul also took the need/want to torture and kill away.
> > Blood is a different matter, since he needs that to stay alive.
>
> Oh, I doubt that. Angel is still very much like Angelus in this
> regard, just playing for the other side. One scene I recall a lot
> these days from BTVS was the scene in WML was when Angel tortured
> Spike by implying that Dru was more aroused by him and his cruelty
> than she was by Spike's devoted love. The purpose in that scene was
> good, to drive Spike to kill him before he could be used to cure Dru
> and kill Buffy, but the joy he took in it was evident and we've seen
> the same joy in the same act several times now out of Angelus when
> torturing Spike. We saw it by the end of S2.
I would call that taunting, not torturing. I enjoyed taunting my
little sister, but that doesn't mean I like torture.
> There have also been scenes in AtS, and not just in S2 when he went
> dark. Some scenes that stand out for me are when he tortured whatsit
> from W&H to try to find out how to get Connor back from Quartoth, when
> he threatened that parole officer to find out where Lindsey's evil
> hand came from ("Can't you just smell the butterfat?"), and most
> recently when he locked Pavayne in that box. You can't tell me he
> didn't enjoy doing those things. He hated that he enjoyed it, but he
> enjoyed it. If not, someone needs to speak to DB about how he's
> portraying his character. It's not going to be me, though. I love
> this aspect of how he portrays Angel.
I don't think he was really enjoying it, though. He needed to
pretend that he was uncaring, so that his "victims" wouldn't try to
get out of it. It was necessary to get the information.
>
> I think this aspect of the character was also pretty well revealed in
> Billy when the misogyny blast didn't work on Angel. He gave a
> different excuse, but my feeling was that it had no effect because
> Angel's hatred of women and desire to torment them is pretty much
> always at that level; unlike Billy, though, he feels it for men too
> and pretty much anything else that can feel pain. He keeps it in
> check. He is ashamed of being that way. Even when he has a
> legitimate reason to cause pain, he tries to hold back because he
> knows he enjoys it too much...until and unless something drives him
> past that point.
I don't think we've ever been shown that he hates women or men. The
times that Angel went dark were not from holding in too much joy of
torture and hate, it was from life throwing him for the loop. It works
his butt off to do good, and it appears that the bad guys are winning,
for example.
> Feel safe with Angel? I don't think so.
As much as I love Spike (and I write Buffy/Spike fanfic, so I'm a
big fan), I would feel safer with souled Angel, than unsouled, chipped
Spike. As for souled Spike, I would feel equally safe as with Angel.
Renee
C.M. Chandler
that Angel was really Angel and not Angelus. It's not like anyone knew about
the switch in Angelus the first time until Jenny figured it out right before he
snagged Willow.
If you'll notice, he does eventually drop the crossbow. Given what Giles went
through, the simple fact that he's willing to work with Angel at all anymore
(just because of traumatic reminders) is amazing, IMO.
Catherine Chandler l "Nobody gets a hole in one
StarGazerCMC at aol dot com l their first time at bat."