OT: Pelosi: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail
Thanatos
Fantastic.
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?Docume
ntID=153583
topcat
"Thanatos" <atr...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-418FD9...@news.giganews.com...
>
> Fantastic.
>
> http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?Docume
> ntID=153583
Unless you're an illegal immigrant, in that case you get a pathway to
citizenship.
TC
azurespirit
"briant...@gmail.com" <briant...@localhost.localdomain> wrote in
message news:Xns9CBCB81F96F...@188.40.43.213...
> Thanatos <atr...@mac.com> wrote in news:atropos-418FD9.20551907112009
> @news.giganews.com:
>
>> http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?Docume
>> ntID=153583
>
>
> Yea it's the perfect plan for Amerika. People in their mid 20s, many
> fresh
> out of school and buried under a mountain of college loan debt, young and
> vibrant and the future of our economy should absolutely not have the
> freedom to decide for themselves whether to carry health insurance!! Not
> in Nanny Pelosi's America, nor in Barack Hussein Obama's!!!! In their
> Amerika it's PAY UP for something you might not otherwise buy for yourself
> or go to JAIL and face a FINE of up to $250,000!!!
>
Do NOT pass GO, do NOT collect $200!
topcat
"azurespirit" <gkn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4af6...@newsgate.x-privat.org...
If this is enforced, it will be enforced very selectively. It will just be
more of the socialism we've come to know and hate. Those of us that can pay,
should we decide to not buy health insurance, will be subject to the law.
BUT, I could take a drive through my former hometown right now and probably
point out a number of street corners where people congregate. The people
there aren't going to be able to afford health insurance or the fine. You
can't get blood from a stone. The government is not going to put them all in
jail. So, those of us that can pay, will get to pay for them too.
This is why you shouldn't vote for the Democrats, ever. They screw things
up, and it takes the Republicans years to fix them after the Dems get thrown
out of office, which they most certainly will after passing this bill
against the will of the people.
TC
Suzanne D.
> Do NOT pass GO, do NOT collect $200!
To be fair, there is a step between refusing insurance and going to jail, so
the headline is as misleading as if it read "If you speed, you will go to
jail." Also, there are exemptions, so the tax will not apply to everyone.
I'm not fond of headlines that go beyond misleading and into outright lies.
I wish people could actually talk about the REALITY of the situation, which
in itself is crappy enough to warrant conversation, instead of getting
outraged about a lie.
--S.
Vandar
Here's the deal as I see it:
Under the bill the House passed last night, I would be on the hook for
~$7,500 in insurance premiums per year. That's an increase of my current
premium by... ~$7,500. In fact, that's more than I spent on health care
in the last 5 years.
If I don't give the insurance industry that money, then I can be fined
tens of thousands of dollars and possibly be sent to prison.
Here's the real kicker:
Since I would be responsible for insuring myself (I am my own employer),
there is no grace period for me to purchase insurance. I would have to
buy a policy *immediately* after the law goes into effect.
However, the Dept of Health & Human Services, which would be the
governing body, has 18 months after the law goes into effect before
determining the level of coverage I would receive and the premium I
would be required to pay for that coverage.
That means they are going to require me to sign a check and let them
fill in the amount up to a year and a half later.
I absolutely, without a doubt, will NEVER do that.
That said, ready for a shocker?
Rep. Cao (the Republican who voted for the bill) did the right thing in
voting for it.
<waits for the partisans among us to pick their jaws up off the floor>
He represents New Orleans, which is predominantly poor and uninsured.
His constituents would naturally be in favor of the bill, so he voted in
favor of the bill.
Every congressperson should do the same - vote as the majority of their
constituents would want them to vote. If they all did that, the House
bill wouldn't have passed.
In the words of Forrest Gump: That's about all I have to say about that.
Thanatos
"Suzanne D." <bbb_bus_c...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "azurespirit" <gkn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4af6...@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>
> > Do NOT pass GO, do NOT collect $200!
>
> Also, there are exemptions, so the tax will not apply to everyone.
Of course it won't. Let me guess who it won't apply to...
Suzanne D.
"Vandar" <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hd75fo$7b6$1...@news.albasani.net...
> Here's the deal as I see it:
>
> Under the bill the House passed last night, I would be on the hook for
> ~$7,500 in insurance premiums per year. That's an increase of my current
> premium by... ~$7,500.
If you already have insurance, then the tax won't apply to you.
--S.
Suzanne D.
<briant...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CBD783DE84...@188.40.43.213...
> "Suzanne D." <bbb_bus_c...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> I don't believe the Pelosi bill (which just passed the House) contains
> provisions to exempt people from the civil or criminal tax charges
> associated with non-compliance.
According to the letter to which the posted article was referring:
"The additional tax does not apply to those who are residents of the
possessions or who are dependents, nor does it apply to those whose lapses
in coverage are de minimis or those with religious conscience exemptions.
The additional tax does not apply if the maintenance of acceptable coverage
would result in a hardship to the individual or if the person's income is
below the threshold for filing a Federal income tax return."
So yes, there are loopholes to get out of it. Most of them are based on
income or residence, but you can also claim a religious exemption.
--S.
Vandar
I don't. I pay my health care costs out of pocket.
Suzanne D.
<briant...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CBD80F1550...@188.40.43.213...> news:hd79on$e22$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>>
>> <briant...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9CBD783DE84...@188.40.43.213...
>>> "Suzanne D." <bbb_bus_c...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>
>>> I don't believe the Pelosi bill (which just passed the House)
>>> contains provisions to exempt people from the civil or criminal tax
>>> charges associated with non-compliance.
>>
>>
>> According to the letter to which the posted article was referring:
>>
>> "The additional tax does not apply to those who are residents of the
>> possessions or who are dependents, nor does it apply to those whose
>> lapses in coverage are de minimis or those with religious conscience
>> exemptions. The additional tax does not apply if the maintenance of
>> acceptable coverage would result in a hardship to the individual or if
>> the person's income is below the threshold for filing a Federal income
>> tax return."
>>
>> So yes, there are loopholes to get out of it.
>
> population.
Actually, if 100% of the population is willing to claim they are
Scientologists (or whatever religion it is that doesn't allow health care),
then the exemptions could apply to 100% of the population.
--S.
Bob Rudd
It will not pass the Senate as sent to it by the House.
--
Orrin Knox would make a great President.
Bob Rudd
There is a great deal of truth and wisdom in everything that you have
said, Vandar.
Bob Rudd
Hey, what's $7,500. out of pocket as long as you know that you're
helping a 20 year welfare recipient get as good, or better, care than
you've been earning and paying for yourself?
You'll feel a lot better when you think about that as you write your
check.
Maybe Pelosi can have her bill amended to something like "Save the
Children" used to be. You'll get a bio about your welfarite and s/he
will write you every month telling you about their great, new health
care as well as letting you know what, next, you (through Pelosi) could
do to improve her/his lifestyle.
@gmail.com zob
>Suzanne D. wrote:
>
>>
>> "azurespirit" <gkn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4af6...@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>>
>>> Do NOT pass GO, do NOT collect $200!
>>
>>
>> To be fair, there is a step between refusing insurance and going to
>> jail, so the headline is as misleading as if it read "If you speed, you
>> will go to jail." Also, there are exemptions, so the tax will not apply
>> to everyone. I'm not fond of headlines that go beyond misleading and
>> into outright lies. I wish people could actually talk about the REALITY
>> of the situation, which in itself is crappy enough to warrant
>> conversation, instead of getting outraged about a lie.
>
>Here's the deal as I see it:
>
>Under the bill the House passed last night, I would be on the hook for
>~$7,500 in insurance premiums per year. That's an increase of my current
>premium by... ~$7,500. In fact, that's more than I spent on health care
Why? Seriously.
If you are happy with your current plan, you don't have to change. If
I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But other than spin and the
political misinformation being put out by opponents to the Health Care
bill, I have seen nothing at all that indicates that those who
currently have private plans will have to change, or pay addition
fees. In fact, premiums will go down as the pool increases.
And the fee (not "fine") will only apply to those who choose to get a
free ride on the healthcare system by not to carrying any insurance at
all and letting others foot their bill. makes perfect sense to me.
Just as in this state, the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN statehouse passed a
bill long ago that those who choose not to purchase car insurance have
to pay a hefty fee to the state to cover their expenses rather than
get a free ride off the responsible citizens.
And there are major exceptions in the healthcare bill. The fee does
not have to be paid by anyone who cannot afford to purchase health
insurance (hardship). In the case cited of the college student who
does not have income and cannot afford it, there will be no fee. This
part is scaremongering, just like the "death squads" that are gonna
kill grandma.
Otherwise, I would be one of the people who should be worried. My
only source of income now is Social Security disability, and I do not
have health care coverage. Nor could I afford to buy a plan. Under
the proposed Health Care bill I will not be eligible for "free" health
care because the income limit bar is set so low. However, the phony
idea that the government is going to "fine" me and the Feds are going
to come and cart me off to jail because I won't be buying health
insurance is ____________ (fill in the hyperbolic pejorative
adjective).
---
Zob
Thanatos
"Suzanne D." <bbb_bus_c...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I may have to revise my stance on atheism...
@gmail.com zob
Yeah, if people are willing to risk perjury to lie. In that case they
deserve to go to jail.
As far as the Brian's statement that the "loopholes essentially apply
to nobody" -- this only serves to as an example of how far he, and
others like him, are out of touch with reality. There are millions
and millions of people who currently do not have healthcare because
they cannot afford it, and these are the same ones who will not be
required to purchase it.
In face, this bill is so watered down that it's a joke as far as the
concept of "universal health care" goes. It provides health care for
virtually nobody who doesn't have it now because they cannot afford
the premiums. The opponents of universal health care should be
rejoicing at this bill, not complaining. In the long run it will
bring their own premiums down, and the sick and dying with no health
care now will still be sick and dying with this bill.
---
Zob
Ryan
wrote:
>Why? Seriously.
>
>If you are happy with your current plan, you don't have to change.
Oh, really? What if the insurance does not conform to the requirements
set up by King Obama? What is your plan is dropped and/or discontinued
due to inability to compete with the public option.
The bottom line is that Obama and his radical leftist loonies want a
one payer health care system and they are just trying to take the
first step toward that final goal.
Does anyone really trust that the United States government is
competent to run 1/6th of the economy?
It could not even effectively run Medicare and that is a much smaller
scale. This plan is not only going to lead to rationing, higher taxes
but it will reduce jobs by economic burden put on small businesses. It
is a disaster. Hopefully the Senate will come to its senses.
Ryan
----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
ATAI Bragging Rights Champion, 2006
Everything that is ever going to happen,
has already happened.
Tin@
Ryan
wrote:
> There are millions
>and millions of people who currently do not have healthcare because
>they cannot afford it, and these are the same ones who will not be
>required to purchase it.
Yeah, and then there are millions who CAN afford it but choose to
spend there money on things like Tivo and deluxe home theatre systems,
right Zob?
And many of these people buy their Tivo's with entitlement money,
right Zob?
Vandar
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:16:42 -0500, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Suzanne D. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"azurespirit" <gkn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:4af6...@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Do NOT pass GO, do NOT collect $200!
>>>
>>>
>>>To be fair, there is a step between refusing insurance and going to
>>>jail, so the headline is as misleading as if it read "If you speed, you
>>>will go to jail." Also, there are exemptions, so the tax will not apply
>>>to everyone. I'm not fond of headlines that go beyond misleading and
>>>into outright lies. I wish people could actually talk about the REALITY
>>>of the situation, which in itself is crappy enough to warrant
>>>conversation, instead of getting outraged about a lie.
>>
>>Here's the deal as I see it:
>>
>>Under the bill the House passed last night, I would be on the hook for
>>~$7,500 in insurance premiums per year. That's an increase of my current
>>premium by... ~$7,500. In fact, that's more than I spent on health care
>
>
>
> Why? Seriously.
>
> If you are happy with your current plan, you don't have to change. If
> I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.
Therein liews the rub. My current "plan" is the absence of insurance. I
pay full price, from my own pocket, for my doc visits, tests, scripts,
and what have you.
> But other than spin and the
> political misinformation being put out by opponents to the Health Care
> bill, I have seen nothing at all that indicates that those who
> currently have private plans will have to change, or pay addition
> fees. In fact, premiums will go down as the pool increases.
>
> And the fee (not "fine") will only apply to those who choose to get a
> free ride on the healthcare system by not to carrying any insurance at
> all and letting others foot their bill.
The penalty applies to anyone who chooses not to carry government
approved insurance. It doesn't matter whether they have others foot the
bill or pay for it themselves. If you don't participate in a government
approved plan, you will be assessed a monetary penalty equal to a
percentage of your gross income for that year. And it's no small
percentage. We're talking nearly 20% of my gross income.
It's almost as if the government is saying "buy our plan or we'll make
it very difficult for you to afford your house, car, and child's education".
> makes perfect sense to me.
> Just as in this state, the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN statehouse passed a
> bill long ago that those who choose not to purchase car insurance have
> to pay a hefty fee to the state to cover their expenses rather than
> get a free ride off the responsible citizens.
We don't do that here. Here, you can't register a car unless you have
auto insurance first. No insurance, no plates. If there is any lapse in
coverage, your registration is immediately suspended. I found that one
out the hard way. I was pulled over for having "invalid tags" a year and
a half after DMV saw a 2 day lapse in coverage. It wasn't even a lapse,
just the new insurance company being slow to notify DMV that I had a
policy with them.
> And there are major exceptions in the healthcare bill. The fee does
> not have to be paid by anyone who cannot afford to purchase health
> insurance (hardship). In the case cited of the college student who
> does not have income and cannot afford it, there will be no fee. This
> part is scaremongering, just like the "death squads" that are gonna
> kill grandma.
>
> Otherwise, I would be one of the people who should be worried. My
> only source of income now is Social Security disability, and I do not
> have health care coverage. Nor could I afford to buy a plan. Under
> the proposed Health Care bill I will not be eligible for "free" health
> care because the income limit bar is set so low. However, the phony
> idea that the government is going to "fine" me and the Feds are going
> to come and cart me off to jail because I won't be buying health
> insurance is ____________ (fill in the hyperbolic pejorative
> adjective).
For your situation, I believe the government plan would cover you. Which
I have no problem with. If you ask me, they should've been covering you
since the first day you needed it.
My problem is that I can afford insurance if I want it. I just don't
want it. Currently, it's cheaper for me to go without. Some of the money
I save by not paying a health insurance premium is used to purchase
goods and services from miscellaneous businesses in my community, thus
helping the economy (I had my driveway sealed today). If I'm going to be
forced to purchase some government approved plan for X thousand dollars
per year, then the very first things I'll cut to offset the cost will be
some of the previously mentioned goods and services, thus hurting the
local economy by subsidizing the health insurance industry.
There are other aspects of the bill that I take issue with, but that's
the biggie.
I'm for health care reform. There are holes that need to be filled (as
you well know). However, I am 100% opposed to HR 3962.
Vandar
We should start a religion - Pelosism.
Commandment 1: Thou shall not subsidize the health insurance industry.
Thanatos
Ryan <ry...@idol.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:18:25 -0500, zob <zobva1 @ gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Why? Seriously.
> >
> >If you are happy with your current plan, you don't have to change.
>
> Oh, really? What if the insurance does not conform to the requirements
> set up by King Obama? What is your plan is dropped and/or discontinued
> due to inability to compete with the public option.
>
> The bottom line is that Obama and his radical leftist loonies want a
> one payer health care system and they are just trying to take the
> first step toward that final goal.
>
> Does anyone really trust that the United States government is
> competent to run 1/6th of the economy?
They can't even run the frakking *flu shot* program effectively (not to
mention their initial plan to inoculate the Guantanamo detainees while
American citizens were going without).
If they can't run a simple vaccination program what in god's name makes
anyone think they can run an entire health system?
Brian Huntley
> (I had my driveway sealed today).
So you're choosing your automobile over yourself for insurance and for
disposable income.
What a planet.
Cheri
news:ce51e970-3b37-48ea...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
What a planet.
==========
Are his choices really any of your business as long as he's not asking you
to pay his medical bills?
Cheri
Salad
> In article <c3oef5172rekdonkk...@4ax.com>, zob <zobva1
> @ gmail.com> says...
>
>> There are millions
>>and millions of people who currently do not have healthcare because
>>they cannot afford it, and these are the same ones who will not be
>>required to purchase it.
>>
>>
>
>
> Yeah, they'll be given it, via the government, as a result of the over
> 100 million working Americans who pay taxes, their bills, etc.
> Meanwhile, those 100 million Americans will have less of their own money
> to decide how to spend on their own and their own standard of living as
> well as health care.... will go down.
>
> Great bill passed there. Them that don't have, largely because they
> don't do anything...gets, while those who bust their butts for every
> penny they earn, pay through the nose, mostly for sponges on our
> society.
America is a sewer of lazy fucks.
Vandar
It's not choosing one over the other. It's an example of a service I may
not purchase from a local business if I were forced to pay an extra
$7,500 to the government.
Ryan
wrote:
> Of course, when they starve, they'll have health
>insurance.
Actually that is the plan. Less money for food. Eating less. Reduce
obesity and subsequently other health problems related to obesity.
It is a brilliant plan to kill two birds with one stone.
Remember that there is good evidence that being a very low calorie
(semi starvation) diet can lead to prolonged longevity and reduced
disease. And once you are forced to give up food you have no choice
but to drop the fat.
Suzanne D.
> The penalty applies to anyone who chooses not to carry government approved
> insurance.
But almost all people will be able to keep their current insurance without a
fee.
>If you don't participate in a government approved plan, you will be
>assessed a monetary penalty equal to a percentage of your gross income for
>that year. And it's no small percentage. We're talking nearly 20% of my
>gross income.
I'm not altogether clear on what "2.5 percent of the excess of the taxpayers
modified adjusted gross income over the threshold amount of income required
for the income tax filing for that taxpayer" means, but I am pretty sure it
doesn't translate to 20% of your income.
--S.
Suzanne D.
"Thanatos" <atr...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-649299...@news-wc.giganews.com...
I have used the religious exemption once in the past.
--S.
Ryan
Since when is atheism a religious exemption? Or did you lie about it
in order to avoid vaccination?
Thanatos
<ce51e970-3b37-48ea...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Brian Huntley <brian_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, heaven fuckin' forbid we have the freedom to choose what to spend
our money on.
topcat
"Bob Rudd" <bob...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.256134071...@news.albasani.net...
> In article <hd7p47$49t$2...@news.albasani.net>, vand...@yahoo.com says...
> contribute anything to society because they are a significant group who
> keep the Democrat Party viable in our society.
> --
It's the same old story. As long as we allow the government to decide who is
"rich" and who is "poor" and set up arbitrary tax brackets based on those
decisions, we will continue to be screwed royally.
TC
topcat
> In article <JvadnWMI78Zh8mrX...@earthlink.com>,
> o...@vinegar.com says...
> entitlement system are, both, certainly filled with very lazy and non-
> contributing "career" thieving pigs from the public troth.
> --
Yes, we've set up a system where it's easy to game the system.
TC
Salad
> In article <JvadnWMI78Zh8mrX...@earthlink.com>,
> o...@vinegar.com says...
> The vast majority of our welfare system, and a fair part of our
> entitlement system are, both, certainly filled with very lazy and non-
> contributing "career" thieving pigs from the public troth.
So what is the solution? Get rid of welfare? Complaining that America
is filled with lazy people doesn't seem to accomplish much.
Micki
Okay, here's the problem the way I see it with your "pay as you go"
plan. For the record, I am speaking as one who went without medical
insurance for four years before I became eligible for Medicare as I no
longer could afford the premiums. What happens if you have a
catastrophic illness or accident? You go through all your money and
then you become a ward of the government for your medical care and
probably everything else in your life as you are now bankrupt and
possibly homeless. For 4 years I lived in terror of this happening to
me.
Micki
" We know when we know, and if we knew then what we know now, we would have."
Vandar
> Okay, here's the problem the way I see it with your "pay as you go"
> plan. For the record, I am speaking as one who went without medical
> insurance for four years before I became eligible for Medicare as I no
> longer could afford the premiums. What happens if you have a
> catastrophic illness or accident?
I accrue debt, call in a couple of favors, and hopefully make a full
recovery. :)
> You go through all your money and
> then you become a ward of the government for your medical care and
> probably everything else in your life as you are now bankrupt and
> possibly homeless. For 4 years I lived in terror of this happening to
> me.
Won't lose the home. That's paid for. But yes, there is a risk involved
with paying my own costs. That's a risk I'm willing to take. With HR
3962, Congress is removing my ability to take that risk.
As I get older, I'm sure the time will come where I feel I should
acquire health insurance. That time just hasn't come yet.
Bob Rudd
Yep, pretty much so. A flat tax or a VAT would assure that everyone is
a contributor to paying the bills our government charges on our
"behalf."
--
Orrin Knox would make a great President.
Bob Rudd
A significant reduction in welfare combined with required work fare,
even if picking up street trash, would be a significant start. Require
some kind of low level work product be done by the welfarite and
entitlement abusers in order for them to get even a basic level of time
at the public troth.
Bob Rudd
atr...@mac.com says...
> They can't even run the frakking *flu shot* program effectively (not to
> mention their initial plan to inoculate the Guantanamo detainees while
> American citizens were going without).
>
> If they can't run a simple vaccination program what in god's name makes
> anyone think they can run an entire health system?
>
Only those who don't work, don't contribute, don't pay taxes and have no
valid, legitimate reason for taking from the social welfare system.
Bob Rudd
Another liberty surrendered to be surrendered back to our liberal
government who knows what's best for all of us.
Micki
>Micki wrote:
>
>> Okay, here's the problem the way I see it with your "pay as you go"
>> plan. For the record, I am speaking as one who went without medical
>> insurance for four years before I became eligible for Medicare as I no
>> longer could afford the premiums. What happens if you have a
>> catastrophic illness or accident?
>
>I accrue debt, call in a couple of favors, and hopefully make a full
>recovery. :)
>
Good on you if you can afford to accrue hundred's of thousands of
debt :)
>> You go through all your money and
>> then you become a ward of the government for your medical care and
>> probably everything else in your life as you are now bankrupt and
>> possibly homeless. For 4 years I lived in terror of this happening to
>> me.
>
>Won't lose the home. That's paid for.
As a renter, I probably would have been homeless.
>But yes, there is a risk involved
>with paying my own costs. That's a risk I'm willing to take. With HR
>3962, Congress is removing my ability to take that risk.
>As I get older, I'm sure the time will come where I feel I should
>acquire health insurance. That time just hasn't come yet.
Actually the risk you are taking is also the risk to the government
which does not just let people die. You may be treated on a charity
basis but you will be treated.