Girl May Lose Arm After School Snake Bite
tiny dancer
POTTSTOWN, Pa. (AP) - A 14-year-old girl may lose her arm after being bitten
by a poisonous copperhead snake at school, authorities said.
The snake was caught in Valley Forge by a 17-year-old male student, who took
it in a shoebox to a drama club gathering at St. Pius X High School on
Friday, Lower Pottsgrove Police Chief Ray Bechtel said. No regular classes
were held that day, which was designated for staff development.
The boy was showing the reptile to other students when it bit the girl's
finger, Bechtel said.
The girl, whose name was not released by police, apparently threw the snake
across the room and the boy threw it outside. The snake was not found, but
authorities were able to identify it because the boy photographed it with
his camera cellphone, said Bechtel.
The victim was treated at Pottstown Memorial Medical Center about 45 minutes
after being bitten, he said.
``The doctors said if it had been a half-hour longer she would likely have
been dead,'' said Bechtel.
However, police said she could still lose her arm.
Police did not have an update on the girl's condition Sunday. She had been
in very serious condition at Hershey Medical Center.
No charges were filed but police said they were investigating.
Copperhead snake bites are typically not fatal but are extremely painful and
may cause extensive scarring and loss of limb use, according to the North
Carolina Cooperative Extension of North Carolina State University.
On the Net:
North Carolina Cooperative Extension:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm
JonesieCat
news:DGY6f.811$x6....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
Oh no. The poor girl. Wonder how close she got to it - she must have been
curious, having a close look I guess. The dumb boy, taking it in to show the
others - bet he feels horrible right now (assuming he didn't know it was
poisonous), I feel sorry for him too. What is it about boys and snakes? And
are copperheads native to that area? My brothers - when they were younger
than this boy - used to love catching snakes, but there were no poisonous
ones around where we lived. I sure hope this girl doesn't lose her arm.
Cripes, sometimes like there's danger everywhere.
JC
tiny dancer
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
news:435c666d$0$26993$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
The boy had to have known it was a copperhead I'd think. I know they are
native to our area here. Just about any male I know here know's what a
copperhead looks like. Myself, I'm not into snakes, so I never look closely
enough to tell. If I see a snake, I'm outta there. IIRC, I think a
copperhead has sort of a triangle shaped head??
td
>
>
EnEss
"tiny dancer" wrote:
> The boy had to have known it was a copperhead I'd think. I know they are
> native to our area here. Just about any male I know here know's what a
> copperhead looks like. Myself, I'm not into snakes, so I never look
> closely
> enough to tell. If I see a snake, I'm outta there. IIRC, I think a
> copperhead has sort of a triangle shaped head??
Yes, that's right. I think, too, they do have a copperish color tint to
their heads, as the name implies. That's a very unfortunate story. I would
say the girl's parents have a real lawsuit against the school district (for
allowing the boy to show the snake around in the classroom) and I would be
quite surprised if they don't pursue it...especially if the poor girl loses
her arm.
Scary story. Kinda reminds me of the girl who contracted rabies a couple of
years in Wis. from a bat she picked up that had gotten into her church. Of
course nearly losing your life and having brain damage is a lot worse than
losing an arm, I realize. Still...it's just such a freak thing w/ such
severe consequences.
NS
(add sbc before global to email)
Go White Sox!
Michael Snyder
"tiny dancer" <tinyda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DGY6f.811$x6....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
> POTTSTOWN, Pa. (AP) - A 14-year-old girl may lose her arm after being
bitten
> by a poisonous copperhead snake at school, authorities said.
>
> The snake was caught in Valley Forge by a 17-year-old male student, who
took
> it in a shoebox to a drama club gathering at St. Pius X High School
And apparently without even knowing what to do in the event
things went awry. What a cretin. Shame he wasn't the one to
get bit.
As one who took more than his share of risks in high school,
I have little patience for those who take those risks irresponsibly.
I handled copperheads, but I never put them in front of others,
and I knew what to do if someone did get bitten.
Michael Snyder
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
news:435c666d$0$26993$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
I'll take that. ;-)
When I was, oh, 14 to 17 say, I was fascinated with snakes.
I went hunting for them in the woods, caught them, brought
them home, kept them in cages. I bought some from pet stores,
some from mail order. I must have kept dozens, and yes, some
did escape in the house. ;-)
I did catch and handle poisonous ones once or twice, but
never tried to keep them. Mostly I left them alone. Once
some guy caught a whole nest of copperheads, and brought
them to me because he'd heard about my interest. I don't
know what he thought I would do with them. I couldn't
bring myself to release them, because if anyone ever got
hurt by a snake I released, I would have felt responsible.
So I destroyed them. Felt real bad about it.
My best buddy at the time became so obsessed with snakes
and reptiles that he basically took over his parents' house,
filled it with them, and eventually turned it into a tourist
attraction, charging admission to people to come watch him
handle them.
I've thought about it since then, and realized that, even
when I was enjoying and handling my pets (yes, I liked
to take them out and play with them), I was a little scared
of them. And I think that's the secret -- boys like things
like snakes and spiders (and fireworks) because they're
dangerous, and we're scared, and we know that as boys,
it's expected of us that we conquor our fears.
Boys like driving cars too fast, and motorcycles, and
so on, because part of how you succeed as a boy is to
prove your fearlessness (including proving it to yourself).
I would even go so far as to say that boys are programmed
to take part in high-risk behavior at a certain age, to test
that their genes are worthy of propagation.
Michael Snyder
"EnEss" <star...@global.net> wrote in message
news:m0_6f.1145$Lv....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "tiny dancer" wrote:
> > The boy had to have known it was a copperhead I'd think. I know they
are
> > native to our area here. Just about any male I know here know's what a
> > copperhead looks like. Myself, I'm not into snakes, so I never look
> > closely
> > enough to tell. If I see a snake, I'm outta there. IIRC, I think a
> > copperhead has sort of a triangle shaped head??
>
> Yes, that's right. I think, too, they do have a copperish color tint to
> their heads, as the name implies.
And a distinctive pattern of stripes, and distinctive scales.
But any given boy may or may not know that.
Still, he must have known, otherwise he would have
handled the snake and been bitten himself.
> That's a very unfortunate story. I would
> say the girl's parents have a real lawsuit against the school district
(for
> allowing the boy to show the snake around in the classroom)
Oh come on -- the school was closed. I wouldn't automatically
assume that anybody "allowed" him to take the snake in.
> and I would be
> quite surprised if they don't pursue it...especially if the poor girl
loses
> her arm.
Somebody eventually has to ask -- what about the girl's
responsibility? I mean, unles he threw it at her, or let
her reach into the box without telling her what was in
there, there's a fair chance that she placed her own hand
in proximity to the snake. Don't you think? I'm not absolving
the boy in any way, I think what he did was stupidly
irresponsible (and criminal), but let's be fair...
JonesieCat
"Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> wrote in message
news:Vs%6f.557$te3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
My bros didn't bring snakes into the house, thank Gawd. But one time a whole
bunch of the boys in the 'hood decided to catch a bunch of 'em in a vacant
lot - a huge lot - and they brought them all to our back yard, to play with
I guess. I was fascinated to see the snakes all writhing around and trying
to escape, and the boys handling them and exclaiming over them. See, it
would never have occurred to me to look for snakes for fun. Now, this wasn't
real high risk, 'cause the snakes weren't poisonous.
I must add, not all boys like or participate in high-risk behaviour. That's
a sexist generalisation and shame on you, tho in the same breath I'll say I
do think plenty of behaviours can be tied back exactly like you say, to
evolutionary drives toward propogation. Both sexes.
JC
JonesieCat
Who turned this into an issue of his v. her responsibility? So she looked at
the snake, got bit and threw it. The boy then threw it outside. Is a
copperhead native to the area where this happened? He obviously handled it -
maybe he really didn't know what it was. But if they're native to the area,
maybe he did know. And she probably did too. Moot now.
JC (lawsuits schmawsuits, barring add'l info)
EnEss
"Michael Snyder" wrote:
> "EnEss" wrote:
>> Yes, that's right. I think, too, they do have a copperish color tint to
>> their heads, as the name implies.
>
> And a distinctive pattern of stripes, and distinctive scales.
> But any given boy may or may not know that.
> Still, he must have known, otherwise he would have
> handled the snake and been bitten himself.
That doesn't follow. The young man must've handled the snake a bit in order
to get it in the box, unless you believe the snake crawled in a box that was
siting around outside and the kid happened to find it that way and quick put
the lid on. What I think is more likely is the young man handled the snake
in a way to insure against being bit...there are ways to handle dangerous
snakes w/ care to prevent getting bit...but he may have done that either
way, whether he knew it was poisonous or not. Non-poisonous snakes will bite
too, and the bite can hurt. So people who handle snakes take care to prevent
against biting, if they have any brains.
>> That's a very unfortunate story. I would
>> say the girl's parents have a real lawsuit against the school district
> (for
>> allowing the boy to show the snake around in the classroom)
>
> Oh come on -- the school was closed. I wouldn't automatically
> assume that anybody "allowed" him to take the snake in.
>
>> and I would be
>> quite surprised if they don't pursue it...especially if the poor girl
> loses
>> her arm.
>
> Somebody eventually has to ask -- what about the girl's
> responsibility? I mean, unles he threw it at her, or let
> her reach into the box without telling her what was in
> there, there's a fair chance that she placed her own hand
> in proximity to the snake. Don't you think? I'm not absolving
> the boy in any way, I think what he did was stupidly
> irresponsible (and criminal), but let's be fair...
You've missed my point completely. I never said I myself think the school is
responsible and should be held accountable, although that is a good
question. I'm sharing my immediate reaction upon reading this story based on
my awareness of our litigious society.
Although it was not a regular school day, the school was open for some
students to meet for some sort of practice. This would mean a staff person
or adult volunteer would have to be present to supervise. No school merely
opens the doors to let teenagers in on a day the school is closed and let's
them have free run of the place w/ no staff person present to supervise. If
this school did that, there's the liability sewed up in a neat little gift
bag. If the teacher was out of the room at the time the kid came in w/ the
snake, that's a liability issue for the school. If a teacher was in the room
and allowed the young man to take the snake around to show it to students,
that too is liability.
Whatever the circumstances, there was some irregularity w/ what happened in
the classroom that day that contributed to a serious injury to a student. I
would be very surprised if the injured girl's parents don't pursue legal
action against the school district...although we probably will never know.
But this one just screams out to me "LAWSUIT!" They may also pursue action
against the family of the young man who brought in the snake.
Certainly the bitten girl should not have gotten near the snake, if that's
what happened. It's possible the kid w/ the snake picked up the snake and
put it close to her...it's just the kind of thing a sophomoric male HS
student would do, and it's possible there's nothing she could've done in
those circumstances to protect herself. We don't know because the article
was not specific on the details of just how she got bit. Certainly the
argument of any defense counsel for either the school district or the boy's
family will be that the bite victim was largely responsible, if in fact she
did get close to the snake or touch it voluntarily. But I doubt that
argument will sit too well w/ a jury, especially if the victim ends up
losing her arm. A 14 year-old-girl who has lost her arm is a very sympethic
plaintiff. Playing "blame the victim" I doubt will go over w/ a jury. In
fact, I very much doubt counsel for the school or the family of the boy who
brought in the snake will advise their clients to fight the suit and will
strongly push for a settlement. Any halfway intelligent atty. will realize
at once that they have a terrible case against a lawsuit by the victim in a
case like this.
EnEss
"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote:
> Let's see, who will her parents sue? Will they sue the boy, the school
> board, Mother Nature or all of them?
My vote is for the school district. Deep pockets afterall. But they might
also go after the young man's family, too, for good measure.
NS
(add sbc before global to email)
Go White Sox!
Michael Snyder
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
No, it just feels scary, because pretty much everyone
is scared of snakes. Your genes don't know the difference
between a poisonous snake and a non-poisonous one.
It's the "doing something scary" that may or may not be
a genetically programmed predisposition.
> I must add, not all boys like or participate in high-risk behaviour.
That's
> a sexist generalisation and shame on you, tho in the same breath I'll say
I
> do think plenty of behaviours can be tied back exactly like you say, to
> evolutionary drives toward propogation. Both sexes.
I don't think anyone needs to point out that there are exceptions
to every generalization. And I don't think it is sexist to make
general observations about one gender or the other.
Michael Snyder
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
The people who spoke in strong words about his responsibility,
but never mentioned hers.
> So she looked at
> the snake, got bit and threw it. The boy then threw it outside. Is a
> copperhead native to the area where this happened?
Pennsylvania? Without looking it up, I would say yes --
they're native to Indiana where I grew up, and Tiny says
they're native to North Carolina where she lives. Penn.
is right between the two, and the forests of Penn. as I
remember them were very similar to the forests where
I grew up.
Michael Snyder
>
> "Michael Snyder" wrote:
>
> > "EnEss" wrote:
> >> Yes, that's right. I think, too, they do have a copperish color tint to
> >> their heads, as the name implies.
> >
> > And a distinctive pattern of stripes, and distinctive scales.
> > But any given boy may or may not know that.
> > Still, he must have known, otherwise he would have
> > handled the snake and been bitten himself.
>
> That doesn't follow. The young man must've handled the snake a bit in
order
> to get it in the box, unless you believe the snake crawled in a box that
was
> siting around outside and the kid happened to find it that way and quick
put
> the lid on. What I think is more likely is the young man handled the snake
> in a way to insure against being bit...there are ways to handle dangerous
> snakes w/ care to prevent getting bit...but he may have done that either
> way, whether he knew it was poisonous or not. Non-poisonous snakes will
bite
> too, and the bite can hurt. So people who handle snakes take care to
prevent
> against biting, if they have any brains.
If he knew how to handle a poisonous snake, he would have
known what one looked like. At least a native species. There
are only three poisonous species that even MIGHT be native
to Pennsylvania -- rattlers, copperheads, and cottonmouth.
Kids where I grew up were taught to identify all three.
Michael Snyder
"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" <do...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96F95AB73A...@69.28.186.121...
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> looking for trouble wrote in
> news:zh%6f.555$te3....@typhoon.sonic.net:
>
> >
> > As one who took more than his share of risks in high school,
> > I have little patience for those who take those risks irresponsibly.
> > I handled copperheads, but I never put them in front of others,
> > and I knew what to do if someone did get bitten.
> >
>
Oh go on, it's at least twice. ;-)
tiny dancer
North Carolina has the dubious distinction of the most venomous snake bites
of any state in the U.S.
A Copperhead snake bite needs medical attention, is extremely painful, and
may cause extensive scarring and loss of use. Many people are bitten while
trying to kill or handle the snake. Don't take chances -- avoid these
snakes.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm
>
>
>
tiny dancer
You seem to think so when I point out anything that appears to be gender
specific. By the way, I liked to drive fast cars, and drive cars fast.
And I prefer owning cars with manual transmissions. As for handling snakes,
I don't like the ones that crawl around outside, sneak up on people. But I
have handled the ones in the pet shops, the big ones, with the assistance of
the shop owner. It isn't the snake per se, it's the sneakiness.
>
>
JonesieCat
> I don't think anyone needs to point out that there are exceptions
> to every generalization. And I don't think it is sexist to make
> general observations about one gender or the other.
;-)
JC
JonesieCat
> North Carolina has the dubious distinction of the most venomous snake
> bites
> of any state in the U.S.
>
>
> A Copperhead snake bite needs medical attention, is extremely painful, and
> may cause extensive scarring and loss of use. Many people are bitten while
> trying to kill or handle the snake. Don't take chances -- avoid these
> snakes.
>
> http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm
Ya don't need to tell me twice. Why would anyone intentionally want to catch
one of these suckers?! Wait, we already went there. I stepped on a Blue
Racer once (they're non-poisonous but get pretty big), and it briefly chased
me as they are wont to do (instinctively they do that, not because they want
to catch you) - had never run and shrieked so fast and so loud. It was a
lovely color tho. Back to this girl - hope we hear she indeed doesn't lose
her arm.
JC
Uncle Buck
Just for the record, if no one else has said so, yes, they are definitely native
to Pennsylvania.
Uncle Buck
But even if you aren't familiar with which are poisonous and which aren't, you
might take precautions against being bitten. Handling a snake carefully doesn't
necessarily mean you're aware of any poison dangers. I handle my python with
kid gloves 'cuz the sucker's bit me before, and it's not poisonous at all but it
hurts like hell! :-# It's like you don't have to be allergic to bees to avoid
situations where you're likely to get stung. :-##
Uncle Buck
wrote:
>It isn't the snake per se, it's the sneakiness.
With talk like that, you ought to be a dyke. Men are the sneakiest bastards I
ever did see. And that's the truth! ;-)
EnEss
Michael Snyder" wrote:
Which of course is exactly what I said, and exactly what Michael acted like
he didn't hear me say it. And, of course, as always, he totally ignored the
rest of my post and my other comments responding to the issue of liability
and who would be responsible.
NS
(add sbc before global to email)
Go White Sox!
tiny dancer
"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:gutql15ju6civkpkt...@4ax.com...
Now now bucky, snyder's gonna make one of his 'sexist' rants at ya if'n ya
don't watch it. ;>
td
Uncle Buck
wrote:
>
>"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
>news:gutql15ju6civkpkt...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:16:11 -0400, "tiny dancer"
><tinyda...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >It isn't the snake per se, it's the sneakiness.
>>
>> With talk like that, you ought to be a dyke. Men are the sneakiest
>bastards I
>> ever did see. And that's the truth! ;-)
>
>
>Now now bucky, snyder's gonna make one of his 'sexist' rants at ya if'n ya
>don't watch it. ;>
<smirk>
I actually thought about that just before I pressed "send", but I pressed it
anyway.... oh, well. If he does, he does, if he doesn't, he doesn't. We'll
see. :-)
tiny dancer
"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
One of the reasons ms. beaverhausen thinks you are grand! Hey, what does
ginger think of the python?
td
Uncle Buck
wrote:
Thanks, you are too sweet. ;-) Ginger gets very "alarmed" around the python.
She's curious about it. But when it's hunting down its prey, the mouse crawling
around in its tank, Ginger and it seem to be on almost the same level. She
watches the snake's head and when it gets the mouse, she jumps a little. But
then she loses interest once the deed is done. Still, sometimes she'll stand
and stare into the mouse tank, and I can't help but to wonder what she's
thinking. When I get some of the mice out - some of my favorites that I keep
and that will not become snake food - and I play with them, I let Ginger near
them to see how she'll react. Sometimes she acts like she thinks they're
puppies, sometimes she acts like she thinks they might be prey (licking her lips
and stuff). I think she's very, very confused.
Oh, and the pregnant thing? Well, she started swelling up and her nipples
became big - I mean there was no doubt about it, she was sloshin'. But now the
swollen belly has gone down and she's returned back to normal. I think maybe
she's miscarried, but then would she eat the babies if they were stillborn?
'cuz I didn't find any dead embryos or anything around. :-? I don't know. But
she's not pregnant any more. :-( I'm rather disappointed about that. :-(
There are a few chihuahuas around, and she squats exTREMEly low when she pees.
I think maybe she might have mated with them and the extremely big/extremely
small mix didn't quite pan out in her system or something. :-((((
tiny dancer
"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
Darn, and I was already trying to figure out how I'd get one of her pups.
:( Sorry uncle buck. But sometimes dogs have *false* pregnancies. We had
a dog years ago that seemed to have a false pregnancy every year around the
same time. She'd make herself a nest with blankets, curl up and act
'infirm', etc. And then a week or so later, she'd be back to her old self.
Are you going to have ginger spayed? That would be wise buck, as spayed
dogs avoid many types of cancer.
td
Michael Snyder
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
Blue racer... damn, that's familiar. Oh yeah! I had one of them once.
BTW, they're an endangered and protected species now -- good thing
you didn't kill it. ;-)
Wait a sec, now... I think the one I caught was a Black racer.
Close relative, not quite as pretty.
Michael Snyder
"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
Oh hell, I got bit by 'em a zillion times. Got so I didn't mind, really.
How big a python, and what kind? Had a boa constrictor in my dorm
room when I was an undergrad. He had a bite on 'im... ;-)
As for handling etc., it's really a moot argument, but there is a
difference between "handling a snake carefully" and "knowing
how to handle a snake so you don't get bit". I'm sure you know
this.
Uncle Buck
wrote:
I'll have her spayed, but I think I'd like her to have at least one litter
first. I don't like her confusion with the mice, she really doesn't seem to
understand what the mice are. I plan on having the mice for a long time (even
if I get rid of the snake - I'm trying to breed a strain of "pomeranian" mice -
yes, like little minature pomeranians - I'm hoping to have them ready by the
time my nephew graduates high school as a graduation gift - an entire strain of
mouse just for him. ;-)). I want Ginger to understand the nature of things, so
to speak, as much as she is able. She's torn between wanting to eat the mice
and wanting to treat them like puppies. Unless she has puppies of her own,
she'll never quite get the distinction. I'm just hoping that if she has
puppies, she doesn't associate "mice" = "puppies" too strongly, otherwise she
might get it in her head that I may try to feed _them_ to the snake, which could
cause some tension betwixt us... :-# I'll have to be careful around that
issue... ;-)
Michael Snyder
"tiny dancer" <tinyda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9N77f.9226$Pp1....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> wrote in message
> news:j377f.578$te3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > I don't think anyone needs to point out that there are exceptions
> > to every generalization. And I don't think it is sexist to make
> > general observations about one gender or the other.
> >
> >
>
> You seem to think so when I point out anything that appears to be gender
> specific.
You mean like "most men are pigs"? ;-)
> By the way, I liked to drive fast cars, and drive cars fast.
> And I prefer owning cars with manual transmissions. As for handling
snakes,
> I don't like the ones that crawl around outside, sneak up on people. But
I
> have handled the ones in the pet shops, the big ones, with the assistance
of
> the shop owner. It isn't the snake per se, it's the sneakiness.
Are you familiar with this song, perchance?
http://www.indie44.com/tthall/l_sneaky.html
Watch out for pop-ups, these song-lyric sites seem to be
infested with 'em.
And by the way, snakes don't really sneak up on people... ;-)
Michael Snyder
"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
I know when I'm being baited. I am a master, you know. ;-)
Michael Snyder
> North Carolina has the dubious distinction of the most venomous snake
bites
> of any state in the U.S.
Oh yeah, you've got a lot of those moccasins, huh?
We were rumored to have them around where I lived,
but I never saw one -- or only once, maybe (maybe not).
Plenty of water snakes, but not the poisonous variety.
Heard a moccasin would jump right into a fishin' boat...
Uncle Buck
I hear the boas are vicious little critters. I thought mine was a boa until a
local breeder set me straight. I really didn't know my snakes very well when
this one was given to me as a gift from an ex-bosses' husband. She's a ball
python (and I'm still not extremely familiar with how that differs from other
types of pythons, still learning and all), her name's Vlad. I'd say she's
approaching 5 feet long by now, possibly 6. My cuddly wuddly widdwe baby. ;-)
My mom absolutely refuses to visit me because of it. So I send up the skin
every so often when it sheds just to taunt the poor woman. I'm a baaaaad seed.
;-)
>As for handling etc., it's really a moot argument, but there is a
>difference between "handling a snake carefully" and "knowing
>how to handle a snake so you don't get bit". I'm sure you know
>this.
Yes, true. There are many ways to "handle a snake carefully" but only really
one or two ways to "handle a snake so you don't get bit". It's not such a
horrible thing, I mean it's not like they have 2" fangs or anything. I'd just
rather avoid it. :-#
tiny dancer
We have a creek behind our house. I believe dh has said he's seen one back
there. Personally, I avoid the very back of our yard where the fenceline
is. I'm not fond of coming upon a snake in the wild.
>
>
>
tiny dancer
"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
Speaking of mice, I'm having trouble highlighting things with my 'mouse'. I
have a cordless one. Does anybody know what might be wrong with it? It
will start to highlight and then screw up. I'm wondering if I need a new
mouse?
As for Ginger, I think you might be confusing her if you allow her to watch
you feed the snake, buck. I don't think she can learn to grasp the concept
of some mice are food and some are pets.
I taught murphy to not chase the birds or squirrels in my back yard. It
took me awhile, and a lot of reinforcement. She already understood certain
words, breakfast, friends, love, etc. So everyday when we went outside, I'd
tell her the squirrels are her *friends*. That they 'love murphy'. They
were 'having breakfast', etc. Eventually she grew so tame around the
critters that she could be laying in the grass in the backyard, not four
feet away from scampering squirrels and birds, feeding under the bird and
squirrel feeders. It looked so cute to watch. The squirrels seemed to
'understand' that she wouldn't chase or hurt them and they began coming down
the trees to feed while she was out there. They also understood that when
my daughters dogs were here, they better not come down the tree's, as those
dogs weren't their 'friends' the way murphy was.
So anyway buck, I think you have to stick to one concept or the other,
either the mice are *friends* or they are *food*.
td
tiny dancer
>
> "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9N77f.9226$Pp1....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> wrote in message
> > news:j377f.578$te3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> > > I don't think anyone needs to point out that there are exceptions
> > > to every generalization. And I don't think it is sexist to make
> > > general observations about one gender or the other.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You seem to think so when I point out anything that appears to be gender
> > specific.
>
> You mean like "most men are pigs"? ;-)
>
> > By the way, I liked to drive fast cars, and drive cars fast.
> > And I prefer owning cars with manual transmissions. As for handling
> snakes,
> > I don't like the ones that crawl around outside, sneak up on people.
But
> I
> > have handled the ones in the pet shops, the big ones, with the
assistance
> of
> > the shop owner. It isn't the snake per se, it's the sneakiness.
>
> Are you familiar with this song, perchance?
>
> http://www.indie44.com/tthall/l_sneaky.html
Nope, don't know the song.
>
> Watch out for pop-ups, these song-lyric sites seem to be
> infested with 'em.
>
> And by the way, snakes don't really sneak up on people... ;-)
The ones I've seen have. I remember being out at a state park once, at a
pump, pumping a bucket of water. Damn snake slithered right up beside me to
get a drink. I almost fainted, dropped my bucket and ran screaming. And
don't even remind me about the one I found in the soil of a potted plant I
bought at a garden center. It was an 'inside' plant, in my living room,
when I discovered the snake. It was a big tree type plant. My youngest
daughter was the one who discovered the snake. I'd watered the plant, and
my daughter, who was about two at the time, came and got me to 'come see'
something. She was chattering about somebody 'getting a drink' and she was
making cute little slurping sounds, as she took my hand and led me into the
living room to 'come see'. She led me to the 'tree', and as I was trying to
figure out what it was she wanted me to 'see', a snake slithered up to the
surface, slurped a drink, and slithered back down into the soil again. To
say I nearly had a heart attack right there on the spot is a HUGE
understatement. I gasped, grabbed my child, and ran from the room.
Eventually, I got the courage to go back in, grab the tree and drag it to
the front door, drag it outside on to the porch, and kick it off the porch.
When dh got home from work that night, he wondered 'what my tree was doing
laying outside on the front lawn?'
td
>
>
>
Michael Snyder
"Uncle Buck" <Uncl...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
> >How big a python, and what kind? Had a boa constrictor in my dorm
> >room when I was an undergrad. He had a bite on 'im... ;-)
>
> I hear the boas are vicious little critters.
Oh, once we got used to each other, I never had to worry about him.
When I moved away, he was inherited by one of my little nieces,
who was probably 12 or so at the time -- the snake was longer
than she was (or is now, for that matter), but she never had a
problem with him.
Really, the only time he got to acting cussed was when I had
to give him a shot. Then I'd just have my mom hold him down. ;-)
> I thought mine was a boa until a
> local breeder set me straight. I really didn't know my snakes very well
when
> this one was given to me as a gift from an ex-bosses' husband. She's a
ball
> python (and I'm still not extremely familiar with how that differs from
other
> types of pythons, still learning and all), her name's Vlad.
Oh, how cool! Can you make her "ball up"? Um...
do you know that that's how they get their name?
They'll scrunch themselves right up into a ball,
you can roll them around on the floor. No other
snake will do that.
> I'd say she's
> approaching 5 feet long by now, possibly 6. My cuddly wuddly widdwe baby.
;-)
<sigh...> yeah, I know the feeling. ;-)
> My mom absolutely refuses to visit me because of it. So I send up the
skin
> every so often when it sheds just to taunt the poor woman. I'm a baaaaad
seed.
> ;-)
Our poor mothers. ;-)
Michael Snyder
>
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> wrote in message
> news:Lji7f.737$te3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > And by the way, snakes don't really sneak up on people... ;-)
>
>
> The ones I've seen have.
No, really. On the level. They don't. ;-)
> I remember being out at a state park once, at a
> pump, pumping a bucket of water. Damn snake slithered right up beside me
to
> get a drink. I almost fainted, dropped my bucket and ran screaming.
Tiny, the snake didn't even know you were there.
She just wanted a drink of water, not to sneak up on you.
They can't help it that their little non-existant feet don't make
any noise...
> And
> don't even remind me about the one I found in the soil of a potted plant I
> bought at a garden center. It was an 'inside' plant, in my living room,
> when I discovered the snake. It was a big tree type plant. My youngest
> daughter was the one who discovered the snake. I'd watered the plant, and
> my daughter, who was about two at the time, came and got me to 'come see'
> something. She was chattering about somebody 'getting a drink' and she
was
> making cute little slurping sounds, as she took my hand and led me into
the
> living room to 'come see'. She led me to the 'tree', and as I was trying
to
> figure out what it was she wanted me to 'see', a snake slithered up to the
> surface, slurped a drink, and slithered back down into the soil again. To
> say I nearly had a heart attack right there on the spot is a HUGE
> understatement. I gasped, grabbed my child, and ran from the room.
> Eventually, I got the courage to go back in, grab the tree and drag it to
> the front door, drag it outside on to the porch, and kick it off the
porch.
> When dh got home from work that night, he wondered 'what my tree was doing
> laying outside on the front lawn?'
Yeah, look, I can understand how you feel and all, but the snake
would probably rather have been almost anywhere else than in
your house. From the snake's point of view, YOU snuck up on
HER. There she was, just minding her own business...
Michael Snyder
In this case I really can't blame you.
Even though personally, I'd probably be back there hunting for it...
Michael Snyder
> Speaking of mice, I'm having trouble highlighting things with my 'mouse'.
I
> have a cordless one. Does anybody know what might be wrong with it? It
> will start to highlight and then screw up. I'm wondering if I need a new
> mouse?
No, just a new battery. Change the battery, everything will be all better.
JonesieCat
Yah, apparently they're the same snake, but diff in color. Black ones are
way nasty looking to me. I did see they are now endangered in some areas.
Believe me, the one I encountered was in no danger from me! As you well
knew - ! JC
JonesieCat
Hang on. Are water mocassins really poisonous? Or not? I used to believe
yes, but seems at some point we were taught that was an old wives tale. I
hate seeing snakes in the water. It can look like a perfectly good creek and
as soon as you see a snake swimming by, suddenly it looks reallll creepy.
That said, I too rather like some tame snakes I've met. But, like you, Tiny,
I hate coming upon them accidently in the wild nearly as much as the snake
hates it I'm sure. JC
tiny dancer
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
From what I know, water mocassins are poisonous.
td
>
>
tiny dancer
I'll try that, but I've probably changed a 'gazillion' batteries in this
mouse, and never had this problem before.
td
>
>
>
tiny dancer
Well as far as I'm concerned, they are sneaky little bastards! When they
are in the pet store, and the guy takes one out of it's enclosure to let me
feel it, that's one thing. I've seen it, know it's there, etc. But when
I'm minding my own business, going about my day, and one creeps up on me,
that's a whole 'nother story. As for my 'tree snake', dh didn't believe me
when I told him there was a snake in it. I insisted that damn tree wasn't
coming back inside my house until the damn snake was gone. So dh finally
pulled the tree out of the pot and began hosing off the potting soil,
complaining the whole while that 'I couldn't have seen a snake in there'.
When he finally got to the last soil, packed around the root ball of the
tree, the snake slithered off and made for the woods.
td
>
Scorpi...@attnospam.net
wrote:
>
>"Michael Snyder" <msn...@socmen.org> wrote in message
>news:Lw%6f.558$te3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>>
>> "EnEss" <star...@global.net> wrote in message
>> news:m0_6f.1145$Lv....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>> "tiny dancer" wrote:
>>> > The boy had to have known it was a copperhead I'd think. I know
they
>> are
>>> > native to our area here. Just about any male I know here know's
what a
>>> > copperhead looks like. Myself, I'm not into snakes, so I never
look
>>> > closely
>>> > enough to tell. If I see a snake, I'm outta there. IIRC, I
think a
>>> > copperhead has sort of a triangle shaped head??
>>>
>>> Yes, that's right. I think, too, they do have a copperish color
tint to
>>> their heads, as the name implies.
>>
>> And a distinctive pattern of stripes, and distinctive scales.
>> But any given boy may or may not know that.
>>
>> Still, he must have known, otherwise he would have
>> handled the snake and been bitten himself.
>>
>>> That's a very unfortunate story. I would
>>> say the girl's parents have a real lawsuit against the school
district
>> (for
>>> allowing the boy to show the snake around in the classroom)
>>
>> Oh come on -- the school was closed. I wouldn't automatically
>> assume that anybody "allowed" him to take the snake in.
>>
>>> and I would be
>>> quite surprised if they don't pursue it...especially if the poor
girl
>> loses
>>> her arm.
>>
>> Somebody eventually has to ask -- what about the girl's
>> responsibility? I mean, unles he threw it at her, or let
>> her reach into the box without telling her what was in
>> there, there's a fair chance that she placed her own hand
>> in proximity to the snake. Don't you think? I'm not absolving
>> the boy in any way, I think what he did was stupidly
>> irresponsible (and criminal), but let's be fair...
>
>Who turned this into an issue of his v. her responsibility?
Gee, let me guess....
--
Scorp
It appears that the money has been moved in the
president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war
in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay.
Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.
-- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004.
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html
Sarah Monroe
>
>>"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
>>news:435c9c6d$0$26602$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...>>>news:Vs%6f.557$te3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>>>
>>>>"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
>>>>news:435c666d$0$26993$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>
>>>>> What is it about boys and snakes?
>>>>
>>>>I'll take that. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>When I was, oh, 14 to 17 say, I was fascinated with snakes.
>>>>I went hunting for them in the woods, caught them, brought
>>>>them home, kept them in cages. I bought some from pet stores,
>>>>some from mail order. I must have kept dozens, and yes, some
>>>>did escape in the house. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>I did catch and handle poisonous ones once or twice, but
>>>>never tried to keep them. Mostly I left them alone. Once
>>>>some guy caught a whole nest of copperheads, and brought
>>>>them to me because he'd heard about my interest. I don't
>>>>know what he thought I would do with them. I couldn't
>>>>bring myself to release them, because if anyone ever got
>>>>hurt by a snake I released, I would have felt responsible.
>>>>So I destroyed them. Felt real bad about it.
>>>>
>>>>My best buddy at the time became so obsessed with snakes
>>>>and reptiles that he basically took over his parents' house,
>>>>filled it with them, and eventually turned it into a tourist
>>>>attraction, charging admission to people to come watch him
>>>>handle them.
>>>>
>>>>I've thought about it since then, and realized that, even
>>>>when I was enjoying and handling my pets (yes, I liked
>>>>to take them out and play with them), I was a little scared
>>>>of them. And I think that's the secret -- boys like things
>>>>like snakes and spiders (and fireworks) because they're
>>>>dangerous, and we're scared, and we know that as boys,
>>>>it's expected of us that we conquor our fears.
>>>>
>>>>Boys like driving cars too fast, and motorcycles, and
>>>>so on, because part of how you succeed as a boy is to
>>>>prove your fearlessness (including proving it to yourself).
>>>>
>>>>I would even go so far as to say that boys are programmed
>>>>to take part in high-risk behavior at a certain age, to test
>>>>that their genes are worthy of propagation.
>>>
>>>My bros didn't bring snakes into the house, thank Gawd. But one time a
>>
>>whole
>>
>>>bunch of the boys in the 'hood decided to catch a bunch of 'em in a
>
> vacant
>
>>>lot - a huge lot - and they brought them all to our back yard, to play
>>
>>with
>>
>>>I guess. I was fascinated to see the snakes all writhing around and
>
> trying
>
>>>to escape, and the boys handling them and exclaiming over them. See, it
>>>would never have occurred to me to look for snakes for fun. Now, this
>>
>>wasn't
>>
>>>real high risk, 'cause the snakes weren't poisonous.
>>
>>No, it just feels scary, because pretty much everyone
>>is scared of snakes. Your genes don't know the difference
>>between a poisonous snake and a non-poisonous one.
>>It's the "doing something scary" that may or may not be
>>a genetically programmed predisposition.
>>
>>
>>
>>>I must add, not all boys like or participate in high-risk behaviour.
>>
>>That's
>>
>>>a sexist generalisation and shame on you, tho in the same breath I'll
>
> say
>
>>I
>>
>>>do think plenty of behaviours can be tied back exactly like you say, to
>>>evolutionary drives toward propogation. Both sexes.
>>
>>I don't think anyone needs to point out that there are exceptions
>>to every generalization. And I don't think it is sexist to make
>>general observations about one gender or the other.
>>
>>
>
>
> You seem to think so when I point out anything that appears to be gender
> And I prefer owning cars with manual transmissions. As for handling snakes,
> I don't like the ones that crawl around outside, sneak up on people. But I
> have handled the ones in the pet shops, the big ones, with the assistance of
> the shop owner. It isn't the snake per se, it's the sneakiness.
>
>
Snakes are not sneaky. They do not sneak up on people. If they see you
they will slither away. You act like snake is a pitbull. If you want
to see sneaky, look in the mirror.
Sarah
Sarah
Sarah Monroe
Another cutesy story. Must be older than dirt to have so many things
happen to her and her Brady Bunch family.
Sarah
Uncle Buck
You're just jealous. ;-p~~~~
JonesieCat
Ewww, tiny, that is SO creepy. Remember, once there was a news article here
about the same thing happening to somebody, but the snake in the plant was
one of those miniature rattlers, somewhere in Fla I think? I will look at
potted trees differently forever. And your husb didn't believe you? Cad!
JC
JonesieCat
>
> td
I had to go google. Copied info below. Now I'm wondering if there are water
moccasins where I grew up. The swimming snakes I occ. saw were clearly
gliding on the surface of the water, heads up. Otherwise I see why it's easy
to confuse water moccasins (which are really cottonmouths) with simple water
snakes. Interesting to know too, if the info below is accurate, that a
moccasion will stay and defend its territory rather than run away.
http://www.dausettrails.com/cottonvswater.htm
a.. Water moccasins, or "Cottonmouths," are relatively short and
wide. Water snakes are longer and more slender.
b.. Water moccasins bask on land, or on logs and stumps near water
surface.
Water snakes are good climbers and spend a lot of time basking on
branches hanging over water.
c.. Water moccasins move slowly and defend their territory while
water snakes move quickly away from disturbances.
d.. When swimming, cottonmouths keep their heads elevated above the
water and bodies riding nearly on the water surface. Water snakes keep their
head and body low and below the water surface.
e.. Cottonmouths always cock their heads at a 45 degree angle on
land. Water snakes keep their heads level with the ground.
f.. Both snakes feed on fish, frogs and other prey found around
aquatic habitats.
tiny dancer
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
I do remember one where someone was bitten by a snake in a plant. I've
become much more cautious over the years of bringing home plants to bring
*inside* my house. Especially those big ones. I don't think too much about
it with outside plants, but inside ones, way different story. As for dh,
yeah, it was pretty funny. He's out there nagging away about what a waste
of time it was, me having him hose all that dirt off the plant. Yammering
on and on about there being 'no snake in this plant'. Meanwhile, I had
positioned myself a good distance away, watching for the snake. I wanted to
be sure it was still there in the soil and not somewhere inside my house.
He was shocked as hell, stopped in midstream of his complaint, when that
snake finally slithered off the tree root and took off. Of course I
couldn't resist my "I told you there was a snake in there" retort! ;)
td
>
>
tiny dancer
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
Where did you grow up? Back home in Wisc. there were lots of lakes we'd go
to for swimming, and I did see the occasional water mocassins. Down here
it's mostly either pools or the ocean for swimming. The lakes look too
dirty here. I suppose it could be just the difference in soil/water color
or something. The lakes just don't have that blue or clear colored water
here. They all look brown and nasty.
td
>
>
>
>
>
JonesieCat
> go
> to for swimming, and I did see the occasional water mocassins. Down here
> it's mostly either pools or the ocean for swimming. The lakes look too
> dirty here. I suppose it could be just the difference in soil/water color
> or something. The lakes just don't have that blue or clear colored water
> here. They all look brown and nasty.
>
>
> td
I grew up in the midwest too. Did you ever hear of anyone ever being bitten
by a moccasin?
JC
tiny dancer
"JonesieCat" <Long Ago & Far Away> wrote in message
Not anyone that I knew. I remember being in a lake and having one swim
right past me though. Scared the hell out of me, as usual, I never saw it
comin'. Damn sneaky snakes. ;>
Now down here, one of the guys who works with my husband, his daughter was
bitten by a copperhead. She got treatment and was fine though. There are
lots of streams and creeks throughout the neighborhoods here. That's where
it happened, right in their backyard.
td
>
>
EnEss
> Which of course is exactly what I said, and exactly what Michael acted
> like he didn't hear me say it. And, of course, as always, he totally
> ignored the rest of my post and my other comments responding to the issue
> of liability and who would be responsible.
Several days have elapsed w/o comment from you, Michael, so I can assume
from your lack of response that you're acknowledging I was correct in my
comments about the issue of liability.
Just wanted the record set straight...
NS
(add sbc before global to email)
Yay White Sox!!
Kris Baker
Are you OK? You seem to be obsessing about things today.
We really don't need to keep scorecards on each other. Everyone
here is right sometimes, and wrong other times.
Kris
Michael Snyder
Whatever...
EnEss
"Kris Baker" wrote:
> Are you OK? You seem to be obsessing about things today.
Oh, are you keeping a "scorecard"?
> We really don't need to keep scorecards on each other. Everyone
> here is right sometimes, and wrong other times.
When have I ever said otherwise? And I really don't think I need a lecture
from you on netiquette. My comments weren't directed at you anyway. Why are
you getting involved?