*** Now we know why Houston mother snapped?
Kris Baker
Hane wrote in message <9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
>Holy cow.
>h-
I have nothing to add to this; just wanted to repost it
also to alt.true-crime
Kris
Mametsuki
the police should start calling in the experts to look at the husband's role in
ignoring all the red flags here. What a sad story,
Mametsuki
Desi
Kris Baker wrote in message ...
Holy Geeesss I said this Sat or Sun here after someone
in RL brought it up to me and then I looked up the factors
of genetic schizophrenia and /or psychotic
indicators!!! I can't believe this! After hubby said no
more, she turns up pregnant!! This is worse than I can
believe!! What kind of husband could continually
allow this to happen, when his wife is psychotic???
This is far worse than i can imagine... I hope Maggie
retracts her nasty defense of this man, if this is indeed
true!!!
desi
chrissy
about her not being particularly interested in having a lot of children nor
very religious as the names of her children would suggest.
I suspect that Mrs. Yates was not as interested in having a large family as
she was in pleasing her husband. Not that I think that he forced her into
it, just that it is what he wanted and she wanted to make him happy and so
was participating. Just my opinion.
chrissy
__________________________________________________________
Friends say Yates they knew couldn't hurt anyone
Andrea Pia Yates is now known around the world as the Texas woman who
admitted to drowning her five children in her bathtub last week. But 19
years ago, she was little-known Andrea Kennedy -- a quiet scholar-athlete
who graduated second in her class at Milby High School and was captain of
the swim team.
And friends say the haggard woman appearing in court in her jail-issued
orange jumpsuit bears no similarity to the petite, pretty girl smiling in
yearbook photos in the early 1980s.
Yates, 36, is charged with capital murder in the drownings of her
children -- Noah, 7; John, 5; Paul, 3; Luke, 2; and 6-month-old Mary -- at
her Clear Lake home. Friends who remember Yates from high school, though,
have yet to come to grips with what they've been hearing.
"I still cannot believe this happened," said Marlene Wark, who met and
became best friends with Yates in the eighth grade at Deady Middle School.
Wark and Yates were members of the National Honor Society and the Milby swim
team before graduating from high school in 1982. They later attended nursing
school together.
"Andrea and I had the kind of friendship where if you lose touch, you can
get back together again without there being anything different," Wark said,
noting that the two had not spoken in several years.
Wark and Yates were close friends for years and shared many of the same
interests in high school.
"We had nearly all of our classes together," Wark said. "Neither one of us
were what you'd call popular. We weren't on the drill team, (and) we didn't
go to football games or dances. But we did do other things together, like
sailing.
"I remember Andrea would go sailing with her parents sometimes ... and I
went once with them. She would want to do things that got her outdoors."
Kyle Weygandt also was a high school classmate of Yates' and once drove her
home from school.
"She lived right next to Glenbrook Golf Course," he said. "It's kind of a
funny story, but she and her brother would go pick up golf balls and sell
them back to the owner.
"She was a nice girl. We had several classes together. Specifically, we were
in English and calculus," Weygandt said, recalling that Yates always
excelled in her schoolwork.
"I remember that even though she was usually exempt from a calculus final,
she would take it anyway," he said. "The only people taking those calculus
finals were people who had to, but I think her dad really wanted her to
achieve, and so she would come take them."
Yates' father, retired Humble High School auto-shop teacher Andrew Kennedy,
died at age 83 on March 12. It was an event her husband, 36-year-old Russell
Yates, said intensified the postpartum depression from which his wife
suffered after the birth of their fifth child.
And though several classmates, and even Yates' husband, acknowledge that she
was a quiet, private person, her old friends say the Andrea they knew would
be incapable of such a horrible crime.
"We graduated together, and we were pretty good friends in school,"
ex-classmate Kelly Young said. "She went to Germany one summer to visit
(relatives) and sent me a postcard.
"This is not the Andrea we knew. She was warm and caring. She would not have
ever hurt anything, much less a child."
Young said there was a time in high school when she and others thought Yates
might have had a problem with depression.
"I heard about it, and it was just passed around the school," she said. "It
was one of those things that people kind of knew about but didn't talk
about. We just tried to let her know that we were there for her."
Wark said she remembered no trouble with depression and said Yates was
simply hardworking and dedicated.
Yates and Wark excelled in their schoolwork at Milby, which Wark said paid
off when Yates graduated second in her class in 1982 and Wark finished
sixth. (Because of recent flooding, the Houston Independent School District
was unable to confirm Monday the Milby class rankings for that year.)
Yates and Wark also discovered a mutual interest in nursing while in high
school. After graduation, the two friends enrolled in pre-nursing classes at
the University of Houston. After finishing the two-year program in 1984,
Wark said, she and Yates continued at the University of Texas School of
Nursing at Houston.
A spokeswomen for the UT Health Science Center confirmed Monday that Andrea
P. Kennedy received a bachelor's degree in nursing there in June 1986.
Upon graduation from UT-Houston, Yates continued her nursing career at the
University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, where she stayed until her
first child was born in 1994.
"She handled (Noah's) birth like any other mother would," said Wark, who had
a child within weeks of Yates and visited her in the hospital.
But Young said she was surprised by Yates' experience with motherhood.
"I would never in a million years have expected her to have five children,
much less children with religious names," she said. "She never made any
indication that she was really interested in having many kids."
Wark remembers, though, that Yates had talked to her about having children.
"She was open to having children, because we talked about it at her wedding
(in 1993)," Wark said.
She noted that the wedding ceremony was a small ceremony at a
nondenominational chapel.
"She was always a Christian and always had very normal values," Wark said.
"And she was the sort of person who did not have any vices. She didn't lie
or cheat or gossip. She was just a wonderful person."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/topstory2/952767
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:C4TZ6.508$li2.92...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
Bastard Toadflax
Desi wrote:
> Kris Baker wrote in message ...
> >
> >Hane wrote in message
> <9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
> >>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
> >>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
> >>Holy cow.
> >>h-
> >
> >I have nothing to add to this; just wanted to repost it
> >also to alt.true-crime
> >
> >Kris
> >
>
> Holy Geeesss I said this Sat or Sun here after someone
> in RL brought it up to me and then I looked up the factors
> of genetic schizophrenia and /or psychotic
> indicators!!! I can't believe this! After hubby said no
> more, she turns up pregnant!! This is worse than I can
> believe!! What kind of husband could continually
> allow this to happen, when his wife is psychotic???
Why are ewe automatically assuming the Husband is involved?
Sam (Maybe it was the Milkman) Sands
Donna
>After hubby said no
>more, she turns up pregnant!!
She didn't "turn up" pregnant. It took two.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donna
NEON NAPPI
From: "chrissy" <gl...@donet.com>
Found this interesting article on Yates. Interesting to note the comments
about her not being particularly interested in having a lot of children nor
very religious as the names of her children would suggest.
I suspect that Mrs. Yates was not as interested in having a large family as
she was in pleasing her husband. Not that I think that he forced her into
it, just that it is what he wanted and she wanted to make him happy and so
was participating. Just my opinion.
chrissy
**********_________________________________________________________I I found
something similar in my reactions when reading the Newsweek profiles on Yates,
that she didnt appear to be the one who was keen on having a big family and
that there was a good chance that she went along with it to please her husband,
not that I think that he should shoulder all the *blame* as it were.
For an instant 25 cent analysis, Andrea sounds to me as though she thought she
had to be perfect, and that she was a *people pleaser*, that the very last
person she gave any thought to caring for was herself. I dont see that
necessarily as a positive, I dont see her as some kind of Florence Nightingale.
I see her as taking on far more burdens than any one person should have --I
have no idea how she got that way, but it's not an uncommon phenomenon.
Barbara
Nancy Rudins
|>
|>
|> Desi wrote:
|>
|> > Kris Baker wrote in message ...
|> > >
|> > >Hane wrote in message
|> > <9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
|> > >>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
|> > >>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
|> > >>Holy cow.
|> > >>h-
|> > >
|> > >I have nothing to add to this; just wanted to repost it
|> > >also to alt.true-crime
|> > >
|> > >Kris
|> > >
|> >
|> > Holy Geeesss I said this Sat or Sun here after someone
|> > in RL brought it up to me and then I looked up the factors
|> > of genetic schizophrenia and /or psychotic
|> > indicators!!! I can't believe this! After hubby said no
|> > more, she turns up pregnant!! This is worse than I can
|> > believe!! What kind of husband could continually
|> > allow this to happen, when his wife is psychotic???
|>
|> Why are ewe automatically assuming the Husband is involved?
|>
Trust me on this one. With five kids under the age of eight,
she wouldn't have time, energy, or interest in the milkman.
Kind regards,
Nancy
--
unix: panic[cpu0]/thread=4003fe60: Out of Coffee!
Nancy Rudins nru...@ncsa.uiuc.edu
http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/nrudins/
cupha...@webtv.net
de...@cts.com (Desi)
~~~~~~Again, this poor woman.
Just for info -- when one is depressed one of the first things to go by
the wayside is sexual desire and quite often a woman is unable to
function sexually (vaginal lubrication, orgasm).
Also, antidepressants usually have as a side effect the inhibition of
sexual desire.
Of course, none of this prevents a man from having intercourse to orgasm
with a woman and impregnating her.
Nina
Raymond Spada
time), Then there might be grounds for Domestic Abuse against the
husband because what man would repeatedly impregnant his spouse KNOWING
the disturbed state she was in? Indeed, his irresponsible,selfish
actions might have contributed in driving her off the edge. What a
Tragedy!
rspada@web tv.net
Maggie
>>
>>Hane wrote in message
><9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
>>>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
>>>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
>>>Holy cow.
>>>h-
>>
>>I have nothing to add to this; just wanted to repost it
>>also to alt.true-crime
>>
>>Kris
>>
>Holy Geeesss I said this Sat or Sun here after someone
>in RL brought it up to me and then I looked up the factors
>of genetic schizophrenia and /or psychotic
>indicators!!! I can't believe this! After hubby said no
>more, she turns up pregnant!! This is worse than I can
>believe!! What kind of husband could continually
>allow this to happen, when his wife is psychotic???
>
>This is far worse than i can imagine... I hope Maggie
>retracts her nasty defense of this man, if this is indeed
>true!!!
***I'm surprised so many seem to take this claim at face value. Mrs. Yates
lawyer says that if there has been a pregnancy test, the results haven't been
given to them.
But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
Maggie
"Researchers have long known that there is one extremely common genetic factor
that confers at least a ten-fold increase in the propensity to exhibit
criminally violent behavior. It is called the Y chromosome."--Francis S.
Collins
Maggie
>Why is there the assumption that this woman was the victim of her
>husband? It may turn out that she was, but I don't believe I've seen
>anything to indicate that he was forcing her to have sex and/or
>somehow preventing her from using birth control.
>
>I have not read every word about this case, so perhaps I've missed
>something, but it seems that people are doing an awful lot of trying
>to place blame anywhere but on Andrea Yates herself.
**Absolutely. The media quickly cowed many into their sympaty for Andrea
(which may or may not be misplace), but that doesn't mean it made the anger
evaporate. Now lots of people are taking it out on the husband and even
Andrea's mother-in-law.
Insomniatrix
Nancy Rudins wrote in message ...
|In article <3B386CE8...@bellsouth.net>, Bastard Toadflax
<bastard_...@bellsouth.net> writes:
||>
||>
||> Desi wrote:
||>
||> > Kris Baker wrote in message ...
||> > >
||> > >Hane wrote in message
||> > <9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
||> > >>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
||> > >>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
||> > >>Holy cow.
||> > >>h-
||> > >
||> > >I have nothing to add to this; just wanted to repost it
||> > >also to alt.true-crime
||> > >
||> > >Kris
||> > >
||> >
||> > Holy Geeesss I said this Sat or Sun here after someone
||> > in RL brought it up to me and then I looked up the factors
||> > of genetic schizophrenia and /or psychotic
||> > indicators!!! I can't believe this! After hubby said no
||> > more, she turns up pregnant!! This is worse than I can
||> > believe!! What kind of husband could continually
||> > allow this to happen, when his wife is psychotic???
||>
||> Why are ewe automatically assuming the Husband is involved?
||>
|
|Trust me on this one. With five kids under the age of eight,
|she wouldn't have time, energy, or interest in the milkman.
|
Unless she really needed the milk.
(For the babies)
PattyC
news:20010626155008...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:50:52 -0400 (EDT), rsp...@webtv.net (Raymond
> >Spada) wrote:
> >
> >>If it turns out that this is indeed true---Andrea is Pregnant (6th
> >>time), Then there might be grounds for Domestic Abuse against the
> >>husband because what man would repeatedly impregnant his spouse KNOWING
> >>the disturbed state she was in? Indeed, his irresponsible,selfish
> >>actions might have contributed in driving her off the edge. What a
> >>Tragedy!
> >
> eleanor said:
> >Why is there the assumption that this woman was the victim of her
> >husband? It may turn out that she was, but I don't believe I've seen
> >anything to indicate that he was forcing her to have sex and/or
> >somehow preventing her from using birth control.
> >
> >I have not read every word about this case, so perhaps I've missed
> >something, but it seems that people are doing an awful lot of trying
> >to place blame anywhere but on Andrea Yates herself.
>
> **Absolutely. The media quickly cowed many into their sympaty for Andrea
> (which may or may not be misplace), but that doesn't mean it made the
anger
> evaporate. Now lots of people are taking it out on the husband and even
> Andrea's mother-in-law.
>
> Maggie
>
I'm just not sure why, if people have any variety of opinions, they are
presumed to have been "cowed" into those opinions by (or all people) the
media. Perhaps that's just what the posters think.
I would like to know if this is really true about her being pregnant, and
how many months along she is, if true. I don't blame the husband for the
children's deaths, but considering we've been hearing she's been in a bad
way mentally.. I do wonder about his judgment in general. I sure would not
trust someone mentally unstable to be "in charge" of the birth control.
PattyC
"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."
Patty
pregnant, and how many months along she is, if true. I don't
blame the husband for the children's deaths, but considering
we've been hearing she's been in a bad way mentally.. I do
wonder about his judgment in general. I sure would not
trust someone mentally unstable to be "in charge" of the birth
control.
PattyC
The other question is why continue with the homeschooling
when she is apparently so overwhelmed that the husband
needs the m-i-l to come over and help with the children and
house. And since the side effects of her medications include
tiredness, no wonder she wasn't able to keep the house clean.
She was coping with 1. all her children
2. new baby
3. father's death
4. homeschooling
5. mental illness
6. medications for illness & effects
& then being changed, stopped
She may very well have offered to do the homeschooling but
it seems the husband could have put a stop to it to alleviate
some of the stress in her life. Who would want your kids to
be homeschooled by a wife not emotionally well? And how is
65% even close to being well. If you were talking about a
physical illness, 65% would still be damm near not well
enough to do what is normal. Maybe 80%, but not 65%.
Patty
----
Posted on http://www.etin.com - the FREE public USENET portal on the Web
Complete SEARCHING, BROWSING, and POSTING of text and BINARY messages!
Kris Baker
Eleanor wrote
>Why is there the assumption that this woman was the victim of her
>husband? It may turn out that she was, but I don't believe I've seen
>anything to indicate that he was forcing her to have sex and/or
>somehow preventing her from using birth control.
>
>I have not read every word about this case, so perhaps I've missed
>something, but it seems that people are doing an awful lot of trying
>to place blame anywhere but on Andrea Yates herself.
I hope I don't sound like that! I definitely blame her for what
she did ... but I also think that horrendous things don't
happen in a vaccuum.
I'm *assuming* at this point (dangerous to assume, I know)
that IF she's pregnant, she was not on birth control for a
reason. Since it's been reported by her family and/or
friends that she wanted only three children, I think the
additional pressure to have children was external.
Kris
Kris Baker
Maggie wrote in message <20010626150434...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>>Kris Baker wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>Hane wrote in message
>><9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
>>>>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
>>>>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
>>>>Holy cow.
>>>>h-
>***I'm surprised so many seem to take this claim at face
>value. Mrs. Yates lawyer says that if there has been a
>pregnancy test, the results haven't been given to them.
>But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
>Maggie
When I posted it, I was only reporting what was being
reported in Houston by someone who reported it on
another newsgroup ;)
But....I'd be surprised if she wasn't pregnant. A woman
who's had five children would quickly know the symptoms
of another pregnancy.
Kris
Maggie
>pregnant, and how many months along she is, if true. I don't
>blame the husband for the children's deaths, but considering
>we've been hearing she's been in a bad way mentally.. I do
>wonder about his judgment in general. I sure would not
>trust someone mentally unstable to be "in charge" of the birth
>control.
>
>PattyC
>
>The other question is why continue with the homeschooling
>when she is apparently so overwhelmed that the husband
>needs the m-i-l to come over and help with the children and
>house.
***According to the husband, she hadn't been homeschooling for the past two
months.
And since the side effects of her medications include
>tiredness, no wonder she wasn't able to keep the house clean.
>She was coping with 1. all her children
> 2. new baby
> 3. father's death
> 4. homeschooling
> 5. mental illness
> 6. medications for illness & effects
> & then being changed, stopped
>
>She may very well have offered to do the homeschooling but
>it seems the husband could have put a stop to it to alleviate
>some of the stress in her life. Who would want your kids to
>be homeschooled by a wife not emotionally well? And how is
>65% even close to being well. If you were talking about a
>physical illness, 65% would still be damm near not well
>enough to do what is normal. Maybe 80%, but not 65%.
***What is your point? No one is claiming she was well--the father merely
reported that she was better than she had been at her worst (or at least he
thought she was).
sal
news:8.99324...@iw0.mailusenet.com:
Well about the homeschooling - it is summer, and apparently her depression
started towards the end of the school year. It was probably impractical to
enroll the oldest two in local schools for the last few weeks of school. We
don't know what the plan was for the fall, and perhaps they were waiting to
see what happened with her illness.
-Sal
Maggie
>>>Kris Baker wrote in message ...
>>>>
>>>>Hane wrote in message
>>><9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
>>>>>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
>>>>>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
>>>>>Holy cow.
>>>>>h-
>
>>***I'm surprised so many seem to take this claim at face
>>value. Mrs. Yates lawyer says that if there has been a
>>pregnancy test, the results haven't been given to them.
>>But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
>>Maggie
>
>When I posted it, I was only reporting what was being
>reported in Houston by someone who reported it on
>another newsgroup ;)
>
>But....I'd be surprised if she wasn't pregnant. A woman
>who's had five children would quickly know the symptoms
>of another pregnancy.
***If Mrs. Yates is the sole source of this rumor (and I don't think she is), I
would put no credence in it at all. Are you really prepared to believe
anything she says?
GMSpider
I already posted this in another thread but here goes. Her attorney says this
is not true, he said that before the gag order. Sooner or later we will know
for sure. Frankly, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she is.
CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the
Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
The Devil's Dictionary
Kris Baker
Maggie wrote
>>>>Kris Baker wrote in message ...
>>But....I'd be surprised if she wasn't pregnant. A woman
>>who's had five children would quickly know the symptoms
>>of another pregnancy.
>
>***If Mrs. Yates is the sole source of this rumor (and I
>don't think she is), I would put no credence in it at all.
>Are you really prepared to believe anything she says?
>
>Maggie
At this point, I'd not believe anything she said until it was
otherwise verified. Just prior to the gag order, it was
reported that she was still delusional and not making
much sense about anything.
She wouldn't have had to tell anyone that she was
again pregnant; I believe that she may have known it
and that's what tipped the scales toward horrid anger.
The reason I *do* put some credence in the pregnancy
story is that it's a standard thing done when one is
first arrested; that's almost a week ago. The stories
about her being pregnant didn't come out until yesterday -
meaning that lots of people had the opportunity to know
about it.
Kris
NEON NAPPI
From: maggi...@aol.comSPAMBLOC (Maggie)
>Maggie wrote in message <20010626150434...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>>>Kris Baker wrote in message ...
>>>>
>>>>Hane wrote in message
>>><9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
>>>>>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
>>>>>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
>>>>>Holy cow.
>>>>>h-
>
>>***I'm surprised so many seem to take this claim at face
>>value. Mrs. Yates lawyer says that if there has been a
>>pregnancy test, the results haven't been given to them.
>>But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
>>Maggie
>
kris said:
>When I posted it, I was only reporting what was being
>reported in Houston by someone who reported it on
>another newsgroup ;)
>
>But....I'd be surprised if she wasn't pregnant. A woman
>who's had five children would quickly know the symptoms
>of another pregnancy.
***If Mrs. Yates is the sole source of this rumor (and I don't think she is), I
would put no credence in it at all. Are you really prepared to believe
anything she says?
Maggie
**********
Arent you the one who was just arguing with me when I said I wouldnt
necessarily put stock in what she said about chasing one of the children around
the house?
You seemed to be prepared to believe that one .
Barbara
Maggie
>>>value. Mrs. Yates lawyer says that if there has been a
>>>pregnancy test, the results haven't been given to them.
>>>But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
>>>Maggie
>>
>kris said:
>>When I posted it, I was only reporting what was being
>>reported in Houston by someone who reported it on
>>another newsgroup ;)
>>
>>But....I'd be surprised if she wasn't pregnant. A woman
>>who's had five children would quickly know the symptoms
>>of another pregnancy.
>
>***If Mrs. Yates is the sole source of this rumor (and I don't think she
>is), I
>would put no credence in it at all. Are you really prepared to believe
>anything she says?
>
>Maggie
>
>**********
>Arent you the one who was just arguing with me when I said I wouldnt
>necessarily put stock in what she said about chasing one of the children
>around
>the house?
>You seemed to be prepared to believe that one .
***Yes I did. As I said then, and will say again, I believe it because the
evidence that we know supports that claim (the oldest--Noah, I believe--was
found in the tub while the others--including Mary, the baby-- were arranged on
the bed, and Mom was out of breath, disheveled and wet when she answered the
door).
FWIW, I think it's entirely possible--probable even--that Mrs. Yates believed
she was pregnant.
NEON NAPPI
From: maggi...@aol.comSPAMBLOC (Maggie)
>>>***I'm surprised so many seem to take this claim at face
>>>value. Mrs. Yates lawyer says that if there has been a
>>>pregnancy test, the results haven't been given to them.
>>>But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
>>>Maggie
>>
>kris said:
>>When I posted it, I was only reporting what was being
>>reported in Houston by someone who reported it on
>>another newsgroup ;)
>>
>>But....I'd be surprised if she wasn't pregnant. A woman
>>who's had five children would quickly know the symptoms
>>of another pregnancy.
>
>***If Mrs. Yates is the sole source of this rumor (and I don't think she
>is), I
>would put no credence in it at all. Are you really prepared to believe
>anything she says?
>
>Maggie
>
>**********
maggie said:
>Arent you the one who was just arguing with me when I said I wouldnt
>necessarily put stock in what she said about chasing one of the children
>around
>the house?
>You seemed to be prepared to believe that one .
/***Yes I did. As I said then, and will say again, I believe it because the
/evidence that we know supports that claim (the oldest--Noah, I believe--/was
/found in the tub while the others--including Mary, the baby-- were /arranged
on
/the bed, and Mom was out of breath, disheveled and wet when she /answered the
/door).
Pretty flimsy evidence if you ask me. It might have been stressful and
strenuous indeed to drown 5 kids not to mention the mental anguish that she
might have been experiencing that might make her a bit breatless.
It's no evidence of a *chase*.
Barbara
**
Maggie
>/evidence that we know supports that claim (the oldest--Noah, I believe--/was
>/found in the tub while the others--including Mary, the baby-- were /arranged
>on
>/the bed, and Mom was out of breath, disheveled and wet when she /answered
>the
>/door).
>
>Pretty flimsy evidence if you ask me. It might have been stressful and
>strenuous indeed to drown 5 kids not to mention the mental anguish that
>she
>might have been experiencing that might make her a bit breatless.
>
>It's no evidence of a *chase*.
***Well, maybe I should have also said I believe it because it makes sense.
Doesn't it to you?
jamiekate
HPT.
jamie
Kris Baker wrote:
> Hane wrote in message <9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
> >The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
> >announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
> >Holy cow.
> >h-
>
Patty
"jamiekate" <lew...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3B3A401E...@mindspring.com...
: I heard it was a false rumour...the all female inmates are given the
: HPT.
:
: jamie
The press was probably worried that the original story might die down so
they exaggerated the pregnancy test. Good lead for the nightly news.
Patty
:
NEON NAPPI
From: maggi...@aol.comSPAMBLOC (Maggie)
> I believe it because the
>/evidence that we know supports that claim (the oldest--Noah, I believe--/was
>/found in the tub while the others--including Mary, the baby-- were /arranged
>on
>/the bed, and Mom was out of breath, disheveled and wet when she /answered
>the
>/door).
>
barbara said:
>Pretty flimsy evidence if you ask me. It might have been stressful and
>strenuous indeed to drown 5 kids not to mention the mental anguish that
>she
>might have been experiencing that might make her a bit breatless.
>
>It's no evidence of a *chase*.
/***Well, maybe I should have also said I believe it because it makes /sense.
/Doesn't it to you?
I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing on this one --it's not important, it
just niggles at me
Lots of things would make sense especially your position that we should try to
refrain from drawing conclusions based on what I still call flimsy evidence.
Barbara
Maggie
Pat Fish1
>to
>refrain from drawing conclusions based on what I still call flimsy evidence.
>
>Barbara
You go on and be noble. I'm gonna ruminate and speculate all day. "Drawing
conclusions" is a stretch, though. I'm not drawing any conclusions, conclude
meaning to me that it is my final decision.
I'm still wondering about that Yates couple. It's *is* possible those two
concocted this whole thing. I'd give that possibility less than a percent at
this point, but I have not reached my final conclusion.
I think Condit and/or his wife had something to do with Levy's disappearance.
It's close to being my final conclusion. When it is I'll let you know and tell
you why.
I've pretty much decided all there is to decide on the Ramsey case....Patsy did
it and John helped her cover it up.
OJ got two free murders, this is a no-brainer.
Even the outrageous posters help me to my considered conclusions if for nought
that it helps me see how outrageous that tangent is.
If everyone stopped speculating and ruminating we may as well shut down the
newsgroup.
Pat Fish/Merryland
cupha...@webtv.net
Barbara wrote:
Lots of things would make sense especially your position that we should
try to refrain from drawing conclusions based on what I still call
flimsy evidence.
Barbara
Pat Fish1 wrote:
You go on and be noble. I'm gonna ruminate and speculate all day.
"Drawing conclusions" is a stretch, though. I'm not drawing any
conclusions, conclude meaning to me that it is my final decision.
Even the outrageous posters help me to my considered conclusions if for
nought that it helps me see how outrageous that tangent is.
(lots snipped)
If everyone stopped speculating and ruminating we may as well shut down
the
newsgroup.
_____________________
~~~~~Well said, Pat. The fun of this ng is to contemplate, suggest,
explore, and speculate on all possible aspects of what might have
happened. We don't know enough about what DID happen to do much
evaluating, but we certainly can post a great deal about what our
minds can conjure up as possibilities.
Maybe someone should start a group for those who want to discuss only
the available facts (ma'am) and let those of us, like thee and me, get
on with our ruminating and speculating.
Nina
JonesieCat
Patty
:
But if are speculating about TRUE crime, you can't bend the available
facts and force them into your own scenarios. If you are going to
change the facts and create new stories then better to find a group
dealing with fiction f& crime aka mysteries.
Patty
NEON NAPPI
From: "Patty" <la...@bug.com>
/But if are speculating about TRUE crime, you can't bend the available
/facts and force them into your own scenarios. If you are going to
/change the facts and create new stories then better to find a group
/dealing with fiction f& crime aka mysteries.
/Patty
A rousing *ditto*. I am so sick and tired of the pouting and whining that goes
on, generally, not specific to this ng or anyone in particular, when some off
the wall *observation* not substantiated by any factual evidence, and in fact,
being counter to any logical conclusions ,is gasp! criticized for being off the
wall.
Barbara<----------coffeeless so far this morning
Barbara
PLMerite
<cupha...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16045-3B...@storefull-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>
>
> Maybe someone should start a group for those who want to discuss only
> the available facts (ma'am) and let those of us, like thee and me, get
> on with our ruminating and speculating.
alt.true-crime.just-the-facts-maam ?
I know, I just had to carry it out to it's logical conclusion.
Regards, PLMerite
> Nina
Maggie
>: Lots of things would make sense especially your position that we should
>: try to refrain from drawing conclusions based on what I still call
>: flimsy evidence.
>: Barbara
>:
>: Pat Fish1 wrote:
>: You go on and be noble. I'm gonna ruminate and speculate all day.
>: "Drawing conclusions" is a stretch, though. I'm not drawing any
>: conclusions, conclude meaning to me that it is my final decision.
>: Even the outrageous posters help me to my considered conclusions if for
>: nought that it helps me see how outrageous that tangent is.
>:
>: (lots snipped)
>:
>: If everyone stopped speculating and ruminating we may as well shut down
>: the
>: newsgroup.
>: _____________________
>:
>: ~~~~~Well said, Pat. The fun of this ng is to contemplate, suggest,
>: explore, and speculate on all possible aspects of what might have
>: happened. We don't know enough about what DID happen to do much
>: evaluating, but we certainly can post a great deal about what our
>: minds can conjure up as possibilities.
>:
>: Maybe someone should start a group for those who want to discuss only
>: the available facts (ma'am) and let those of us, like thee and me, get
>: on with our ruminating and speculating.
patty said:
>/But if are speculating about TRUE crime, you can't bend the available
>/facts and force them into your own scenarios. If you are going to
>/change the facts and create new stories then better to find a group
>/dealing with fiction f& crime aka mysteries.
barbara said:
>A rousing *ditto*. I am so sick and tired of the pouting and whining that
>goes
>on, generally, not specific to this ng or anyone in particular, when some
>off
>the wall *observation* not substantiated by any factual evidence, and in
>fact,
>being counter to any logical conclusions ,is gasp! criticized for being
>off the
>wall.
>
>Barbara<----------coffeeless so far this morning
***Ditto, ditto. I'm telling you guys--it's clueless newbies all the way down.
Try the frosty Gatorade, babs.
JonesieCat
> >/But if are speculating about TRUE crime, you can't bend the available
> >/facts and force them into your own scenarios. If you are going to
> >/change the facts and create new stories then better to find a group
> >/dealing with fiction f& crime aka mysteries.
>
> barbara said:
> >A rousing *ditto*. I am so sick and tired of the pouting and whining that
> >goes
> >on, generally, not specific to this ng or anyone in particular, when some
> >off
> >the wall *observation* not substantiated by any factual evidence, and in
> >fact,
> >being counter to any logical conclusions ,is gasp! criticized for being
> >off the
> >wall.
> >
> >Barbara<----------coffeeless so far this morning
>
> ***Ditto, ditto. I'm telling you guys--it's clueless newbies all the way
down.
>
>
> Try the frosty Gatorade, babs.
>
>
>
> Maggie
I have to part company with you three here, as much as I like the
Anti-or-Not-Gatorade Brigade.
We *all*, even *you* folks, filter hard information thru our own screen of
pre-conceptions and values, experiences, whatever. What comes out the other
end is what we hear and talk about and discuss, whether we're newbies or
not.
I never figured any of you guys for net nannies. The people here should
feel free to say whatever they wish. Nobody forces you to read their
posts - over and over and over - or to *respond* - over and over and over
Lord God in Heaven - and then have the unmitigated gall to get angry and
self-righteous about it. Tho that's kind of fun, too, come to think of it.
I don't care if some of these posters think all the fuss is because Condit
drowned five flight attendants in his bathtub in Texas, and they're
discussing/arguing how the outside temp might have made his skin dewy and
his disposition cranky. (Personally I like the person here who still thinks
Chandra spent a coupla days in the freezer in the Morgan Adams with Mr. and
Mrs. Condit. Hey - maybe she did.) In fact I strongly suspect you don't care
either when it gets right down to it. There's something else going on
here...
When certain posters discuss the family in Texas, they may or may not be way
off base as to hard facts. But in their lives and their old diaries of
personal events, there is a truth to what they say, and I'm happy to read
about it. I *want* to read what they have to say.
Yes, the posters who jump into a long discussion without ever having read
any news articles can be annoying. But I find old timers are just as likely
to do that ("excuse me, I haven't had time to read, but what about...?").
Slack is cut for them.
So, Ladies of the Club, I'm cutting some slack for you this morning.
JC, sipping coffee, under partly cloudy skies in wintery Sydney, looking
forward to the day when her lovely little sermonette comes back to bite her
in her looking glass
NEON NAPPI
>looking
>forward to the day when her lovely little sermonette comes back to bite >her
>in her looking glass
******
Me too.
Barbara<------------filing JC's post away under "Things I wish I never said":)
( or that no one ever saved)
Patty
That's all true that we filter the information with our own values, heck like I
said I can clip an article to read how I want it to read. I can tell the same
story but change a descriptive word her and there and make the feel entirely
different. I'm not a net nanny and I'm not whining, I know I have no control
over others and I'm not the controlling type, but for a good discussion it's
best to at least read the articles, at least one article before you post on a
story. I'll tell you I was busy when the JonBenet case was going on and
I was real interested in it. I used to lurk here but I didn't have that much
time then and when I did I chose to read articles over reading the
posts in a.t-c. There was so much misinformation in the posts that I
would have hated to get my information from them and then repeat them
as fact or news.
I like speculating but I still like doing it without changing the known facts.
Now of course not all the facts are in, so those are up for grabs, but if they
are in, they can't be changed to fit the story the poster wants to tell.
That's becomes fiction from the getgo and I came here to speculate
on TRUE crime.
Patty
JonesieCat
I do too, Patty. You are an exceptional contributor to the group, and I
agree I mainly like the discussions that are about generally accepted
"facts" (usually rooted in articles posted by you). I know none of you are
net nannies at heart. I said most of that stuff tongue in cheek, but I
think I have a ways to go before I learn to do that right! (For the record I
do find it very annoying when somebody posts something which is just
blatantly wrong, and expects somebody will do their thinking for them.)
(Also, I lurked here off and on, mostly on, for years before I posted
regularly, so I know what you're talking about re JonBenet, etc.)
At the same time I was also thinking of the folks here who have been so
passionate in their *feelings* about the Yateses, and about Mr. Yates in
particular. The response on this ng to this tragedy has been phenomenal. I
think they haven't always been "logical" or accurate. I don't care. To
suggest that many of these posters are newbies and ought to "learn the
rules" before they post is, well, inhibiting to these same people - or maybe
I'm projecting, I don't know. And they may not even be newbies. At the same
time, when I first came to Usenet, those kinds of remarks made it seem a
rather an inhospitable place, like each newsgroup was its own special little
"club" or something <blech>. Anyway, logic isn't all it's cracked up to be
as far as I'm concerned, in my old age.
As for the "whiner" header, I was again, I'm ashamed to admit, attempting to
be clever (irony?) : *I* was, in essence, whining about the three of you,
and Barbara mentioned "whiners" in her post, and then let's face it, the
three of you were having a good little whine amongst yourselves, lamenting
the state of the group for a moment (uncharacteristically I know). :>) I
don't for an instant consider you to be a whiner, Patty. You must know that.
In any case, Barbara says she will indeed be trotting my own words back out
to show me at some point in the future, when she deems it appropriate.
Scares the hell out of me!
Anyway.
JC
Crime Blitz
> would have hated to get my information from them and then repeat them
> as fact or news.
>
> I like speculating but I still like doing it without changing the known facts.
> Now of course not all the facts are in, so those are up for grabs, but if they
> are in, they can't be changed to fit the story the poster wants to tell.
> That's becomes fiction from the getgo and I came here to speculate
> on TRUE crime.
>
> Patty
That's definately a good idea Patty. Life gets hard when separate
newspaper sources report the facts as two completely different things.
ciao
Jason
NEON NAPPI
From: "JonesieCat" <cj_m.rm@thiswontwork>
/I do too, Patty. You are an exceptional contributor to the group, and I
/agree I mainly like the discussions that are about generally accepted
/"facts" (usually rooted in articles posted by you). I know none of you are
/net nannies at heart. I said most of that stuff tongue in cheek, but I
/think I have a ways to go before I learn to do that right! (For the record I
/do find it very annoying when somebody posts something which is just
/blatantly wrong, and expects somebody will do their thinking for them.)
/(Also, I lurked here off and on, mostly on, for years before I posted
/regularly, so I know what you're talking about re JonBenet, etc.)
/At the same time I was also thinking of the folks here who have been so
/passionate in their *feelings* about the Yateses, and about Mr. Yates in
/particular. The response on this ng to this tragedy has been phenomenal. /I
/think they haven't always been "logical" or accurate. I don't care. To
/suggest that many of these posters are newbies and ought to "learn the
/rules" before they post is, well, inhibiting to these same people - or /maybe
/I'm projecting, I don't know. And they may not even be newbies. At the /same
/time, when I first came to Usenet, those kinds of remarks made it seem a
/rather an inhospitable place, like each newsgroup was its own special little
/"club" or something <blech>. Anyway, logic isn't all it's cracked up to be
/as far as I'm concerned, in my old age.
/As for the "whiner" header, I was again, I'm ashamed to admit, /attempting to
/be clever (irony?) : *I* was, in essence, whining about the three of you,
/and Barbara mentioned "whiners" in her post, and then let's face it, the
/three of you were having a good little whine amongst yourselves, /lamenting
/the state of the group for a moment (uncharacteristically I know). :>) I
/don't for an instant consider you to be a whiner, Patty. You must know /that.
/In any case, Barbara says she will indeed be trotting my own words back out
/to show me at some point in the future, when she deems it appropriate.
/Scares the hell out of me!
/Anyway.
/JC
As you may or may not know, I dont engage in net nannying, at least not in
recent years and I agree that remarks about newbies are more than off putting .
And I absolutely agree, the desemination of misinformation and outlandish
conclusions is hardly limited to any one group, new or old.
I also agree about a clique atmoshere, it's really too easy to fall into it
with posters you've been trading insults with for years and have learned not to
take too personally ( wow am I going to have to live that one down:)
But what you seem to be suggesting is that we three not criticize the issuance
of mis/disinformation especially when the poster seems to be new.
Dont confuse Maggie's style with mine or Patty's. I may agree with her but I
would never couch it in her terms.
It's rare these days for me to even use terms like whining and perhaps it was
inappropriate and I should have searched for a less provocative one.
But it's one thing for someone to put out misinformation and it's another to,
when corrected, insist on it and never either back down or acknowledge the
error.
If some people here dont feel free to express their opinion even if inaccurate
or absurd just because us three react it's really their problem.
Shrinking violets dont last long especially in an unmoderated ng, or if they
do, they either change or no one pays much attention to them [other than those
who care only to *chat* which is ok, it's just irritating coming in the middle
of what attempts to be a rational discussion].
If they do last, they run the risk of a group grope which of course generates
more attempts to excuse and sympathize which then has the potential of turning
into a flame war ( not that I think most current posters at this point in time
are interested in such)
I lurked for a long time before I opened my mouth and I when I did I sure as
hell learned the hard way what was an acceptable method of discussion and I
mean by *acceptable* , one that would buy a rational response and some
credibility, not that I dont still fall back into old habits.
My remarks also were influenced by having recently come off of a list where
similar whining became intolerable to me. It was almost as though any criticism
of illogic was taken as a personal affront even when couched in civil language,
so I dont doubt that my use of "pouting" and "whining" came out of that
frustration.
I had decided not to reply point by point to your post JC but seeing my name
again put the devil in me. Please know that I always look forward to your input
and your ability to not take yourself so seriously so as not to be able to
accept flagrant and extreme derision:)
Barbara
Patty
"Crime Blitz" <serial...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3B3DD6DD...@btinternet.com...
: I
I agree that even the news doesn't report the same thing and can see and hear
it differently, and they are often getting it from the first source
and not a filtered source. I always think how the choice of a word can
change the entire meaning of a sentence. A simple sentence. She walked...
She paced....... She hiked.......She strolled.......She trudged along......
All give out different pictures to the mind, different attitudes in what she
was feeling doing. She paced, was she worried. She trudged along,
was she sad was she lethargic. my two cents.
Patty
JonesieCat
"NEON NAPPI" <neon...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010630120103...@ng-ma1.aol.com...
------------
Oh, but I'm so easily confused!
--------------
--------
You had one of the most controversial entries into this group ever. And it
lasted forever and was unmerciful! And rather funny. What tenacity you had.
You've changed your style greatly since then, yes, I see.
(What has been surprising to me to find is that I view posts and posters
much differently now, as a ng participant, than when I only lurked (and
again, my lurking lasted years, for various reasons). Much differently.)
---------------
> My remarks also were influenced by having recently come off of a list
where
> similar whining became intolerable to me. It was almost as though any
criticism
> of illogic was taken as a personal affront even when couched in civil
language,
> so I dont doubt that my use of "pouting" and "whining" came out of that
> frustration.
>
> I had decided not to reply point by point to your post JC but seeing my
name
> again put the devil in me. Please know that I always look forward to your
input
> and your ability to not take yourself so seriously so as not to be able to
> accept flagrant and extreme derision:)
>
> Barbara
Oh, derision is one of my middle names. And I like you best when the
devil's in you, Barbara!
JC
Cliff or Linda Griffith
> Why are ewe automatically assuming the Husband is involved?
>
> Sam (Maybe it was the Milkman) Sands
Grasping, are you, Sam?
Cliff or Linda Griffith
> Trust me on this one. With five kids under the age of eight,
> she wouldn't have time, energy, or interest in the milkman.
>
> Kind regards,
> Nancy
Who has milkmen? I don't think it's other than the husband's if she's
pregnant; but the UPS men are much more available and sometimes
better-looking.
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
>
> Eleanor wrote
> >Why is there the assumption that this woman was the victim of her
> >husband? It may turn out that she was, but I don't believe I've seen
> >anything to indicate that he was forcing her to have sex and/or
> >somehow preventing her from using birth control.
> >
> >I have not read every word about this case, so perhaps I've missed
> >something, but it seems that people are doing an awful lot of trying
> >to place blame anywhere but on Andrea Yates herself.
>
> I hope I don't sound like that! I definitely blame her for what
> she did ... but I also think that horrendous things don't
> happen in a vaccuum.
>
> I'm *assuming* at this point (dangerous to assume, I know)
> that IF she's pregnant, she was not on birth control for a
> reason. Since it's been reported by her family and/or
> friends that she wanted only three children, I think the
> additional pressure to have children was external.
>
> Kris
And I think that, if this woman was having difficulties, it was unfair
to impregnate her again at this point in her life. What *if* they
decided early on to have a bunch of kids?; if she wasn't handling it
well, that plan should've been abandoned by the person most capable of
making wise decisions.
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
>
> >If it turns out that this is indeed true---Andrea is Pregnant (6th
> >time), Then there might be grounds for Domestic Abuse against the
> >husband because what man would repeatedly impregnant his spouse KNOWING
> >the disturbed state she was in? Indeed, his irresponsible,selfish
> >actions might have contributed in driving her off the edge. What a
> >Tragedy!
> >
> >rspada@web tv.net
> >
> >
>
> I already posted this in another thread but here goes. Her attorney says this
> is not true, he said that before the gag order. Sooner or later we will know
> for sure. Frankly, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she is.
>
> CONSERVATIVE, n.
> A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the
> Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
>
> The Devil's Dictionary
I changed my earlier post because I had already thrown away the newpaper
and it had been taken by the recycling people. But.....I thought I read
that her lawyer refused to comment about the potential pregnancy. It was
like, "Maybe so, maybe not; I'm not saying." Then another Houston radio
station reported that the pregnancy test came back negative.
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
> ***I'm surprised so many seem to take this claim at face value. Mrs. Yates
> lawyer says that if there has been a pregnancy test, the results haven't been
> given to them.
>
> But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
>
>
> "Researchers have long known that there is one extremely common genetic factor
> that confers at least a ten-fold increase in the propensity to exhibit
> criminally violent behavior. It is called the Y chromosome."--Francis S.
> Collins
First thought: "Well, DUH, Maggie!" She didn't do it alone.
I don't think she was capable of making the decision to get pregnant or
to avoid pregnancy. Perhaps she and her husband had decided early-on to
have as many children as God gave them. That's all well and good,
unless the childbearer loses her capacity to make decisions.
I've read or heard that she *isn't* pregnant; but if she is, I don't
think it was her choice. Her husband knew that she hadn't handled the
two prior pregnancies well, that she was still on medication because of
them; so in good conscience, he should've been using something to ward
off pregnancy. JMO.
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
> >kris said:
> ***Yes I did. As I said then, and will say again, I believe it because the
> evidence that we know supports that claim (the oldest--Noah, I believe--was
> found in the tub while the others--including Mary, the baby-- were arranged on
> the bed, and Mom was out of breath, disheveled and wet when she answered the
> door).
>
> FWIW, I think it's entirely possible--probable even--that Mrs. Yates believed
> she was pregnant.
>
> Maggie
Apparently I'm wrong, but I though both the baby and the eldest were
found in the tub.
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
> Pretty flimsy evidence if you ask me. It might have been stressful and
> strenuous indeed to drown 5 kids not to mention the mental anguish that she
> might have been experiencing that might make her a bit breatless.
>
> It's no evidence of a *chase*.
>
Except, I think, for what the mother reported. Also, I thought the
eldest and the youngest were found in the tub.
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
> Barbara<----------coffeeless so far this morning
Go with the coffee and be happy!
Linda
JonesieCat
"Cliff or Linda Griffith" <grif...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B3E574A...@home.com...
No, I think the baby's body remained in the tub while she drowned Noah (if
one believes her story), but she then apparently took the baby's body and
put in on the bed with the bodies of the younger boys, where it was found by
police. Only Noah's body was found in the tub.
JC
NEON NAPPI
From: Cliff or Linda Griffith <grif...@home.com>
Linda
*******
You missed out on the beginning of this exchange. I know the mother reported it
but I dont necessarily trust anything she said that day especially if she might
have been delusional.
No, only the oldest one was found in the tub.
The other 4 were on the bed.
Anway, the *chase* isnt really an issue with me.
Barbara
NEON NAPPI
From: Cliff or Linda Griffith <grif...@home.com>
Nancy Rudins wrote:
Linda
**********
Just for the hell of it, my daughter was born in Germany, she was very light
skinned and blonde and both my husband and I are pretty dark.
Of course we had milkmen in those days:)
Barbara
Patty
"Cliff or Linda Griffith" <grif...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B3E5A34...@home.com...
Is that like GO with the Coffee (force) or I can hear the tune
Be happy drink coffee doodoo Be happy drink coffee.
Patty
Bastard Toadflax
Not really. Just open to possibilities. :^)
Sam (Possibilities + Hillbillies in a posse) Sands
Bastard Toadflax
Cliff or Linda Griffith wrote:
And they deliver. I don't mind the hot sex, it's signing for it
afterwards.
Sam (bigg Lyre) Sands
>
>
> Linda
George Byrd
on "Re: *** Now we know why Houston mother snapped?"
"Patty" <la...@bug.com> wrote:
Better check out <http://www.tmcm.com/> before it's too late!!!!1!
GB
Wyn
09:46:54 +1000, cj_m.rm@thiswontwork wrote...
>
> I have to part company with you three here, as much as I like the
> Anti-or-Not-Gatorade Brigade.
>
> We *all*, even *you* folks, filter hard information thru our own screen of
> pre-conceptions and values, experiences, whatever. What comes out the other
> end is what we hear and talk about and discuss, whether we're newbies or
> not.
I think I love you...
Wyn
DedNdogYrs
God gave them.>
It always amazes me when people have houses full of children they can't feed
and then say they had so many because God sent them and that they will continue
having them as long as "God sends them."
Dogs & children first.
mothra...@my-deja.com
>
> >I would like to know if this is really true about her being
> >pregnant, and how many months along she is, if true. I don't
> >blame the husband for the children's deaths, but considering
> >we've been hearing she's been in a bad way mentally.. I do
> >wonder about his judgment in general. I sure would not
> >trust someone mentally unstable to be "in charge" of the birth
> >control.
> >
> >PattyC
> >
> patty said:
> >The other question is why continue with the homeschooling
> >when she is apparently so overwhelmed that the husband
> >needs the m-i-l to come over and help with the children and
> >house.
>
> ***According to the husband, she hadn't been homeschooling for the past two
> months.
>
Do you know if that's because they'd decided not to home-school, or
because the school year was over? And do you know their *reasons* for
home-schooling? I'm smelling religious fundamentalism here.
Martha
mothra...@my-deja.com
>
> "Desi" <de...@cts.com> scribbled in <3b382ece$0$766$e2e...@nntp.cts.com>:
>
> >After hubby said no
> >more, she turns up pregnant!!
>
> She didn't "turn up" pregnant. It took two.
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Donna
I'm on Desi's side on this one. Among other things, Andrea Yates was on
SSRI's, which are notorious for destroying the libido. Plus she was
exhausted and mentally ill. It may have taken two, but one of them was
(I bet) not real interested.
Martha
mothra...@my-deja.com
>
> >Kris Baker wrote in message ...
> >>
> >>Hane wrote in message
> ><9h8tt3$d0tog$1...@ID-83822.news.dfncis.de>...
> >>>The tease for ABC's Houston station's 10pm news just
> >>>announced Ms. Yates is pregnant, expecting her 6th child.
> >>>Holy cow.
> >>>h-
> >>
> >>I have nothing to add to this; just wanted to repost it
> >>also to alt.true-crime
> >>
> >>Kris
> >>
> desi said:
>
> >Holy Geeesss I said this Sat or Sun here after someone
> >in RL brought it up to me and then I looked up the factors
> >of genetic schizophrenia and /or psychotic
> >indicators!!! I can't believe this! After hubby said no
> >more, she turns up pregnant!! This is worse than I can
> >believe!! What kind of husband could continually
> >allow this to happen, when his wife is psychotic???
> >
> >This is far worse than i can imagine... I hope Maggie
> >retracts her nasty defense of this man, if this is indeed
> >true!!!
>
> ***I'm surprised so many seem to take this claim at face value. Mrs. Yates
> lawyer says that if there has been a pregnancy test, the results haven't been
> given to them.
>
> But if she is pregnant, I'm assuming she didn't do it alone.
The thing is, it's possible for an unwilling woman to become pregnant.
It's not possible for an unwilling man to make a willing woman pregnant.
Martha
NEON NAPPI
From: mothra...@my-deja.com
Martha
********
You might want to go over and pull up the home schooling threads. They're not
too numerous and I dont know if the people who gave us such wonderful
information are into repeating it.:)
Or, I can send them to you, I kept them for future reference.
Barbara-Welcome back!
mothra...@my-deja.com
>
<snip>
> She noted that the wedding ceremony was a small ceremony at a
> nondenominational chapel.
<snip>
Often "nondenominational" means fundamentalist. Sometimes it means a
chapel at a university or something that truly is nondenominational, but
often it means wacko. IMHO.
I'd like to know something about Russell Yates' background.
Martha
mothra...@my-deja.com
Thank you--I skimmed as many threads as I could, but didn't find this
information. I fully expect to be jumped on, but that's atc. So--which
is it? Did they decide to stop this stuff, or was school out for the
summer?
Martha
Maggie
>>
>
><snip>
>
>> She noted that the wedding ceremony was a small ceremony at a
>> nondenominational chapel.
>
><snip>
>
>Often "nondenominational" means fundamentalist. Sometimes it means a
>chapel at a university or something that truly is nondenominational, but
>often it means wacko. IMHO.
>
>I'd like to know something about Russell Yates' background.
***Then why don't you read a few news stories about him?
Maggie
>> ***According to the husband, she hadn't been homeschooling for the past
>two
>> months.
>>
>Do you know if that's because they'd decided not to home-school, or
>because the school year was over?
***Because of Andrea's illness.
Maggie
>>
>> "Desi" <de...@cts.com> scribbled in <3b382ece$0$766$e2e...@nntp.cts.com>:
>>
>> >After hubby said no
>> >more, she turns up pregnant!!
>>
>> She didn't "turn up" pregnant. It took two.
>>
>> --
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Donna
>
>I'm on Desi's side on this one. Among other things, Andrea Yates was on
>SSRI's, which are notorious for destroying the libido. Plus she was
>exhausted and mentally ill. It may have taken two, but one of them was
>(I bet) not real interested.
***Check in with barbara on this one.
NEON NAPPI
From: mothra...@my-deja.com
Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2001 7:20 PM
Message-id: <3B3FB0...@erols.com>
chrissy wrote:
>
<snip>
<snip>
Martha
I saved a bunch of articles in this case including a recent one just about
Rusty. Let me know if you want me to repost them or send them to you via email.
Barbara
NEON NAPPI
From: mothra...@my-deja.com
Martha
******
Damn Martha, you missed that discussion. At least *one* poster disagrees
although it seemed she was in a very small minority.
Barbara
NEON NAPPI
From: mothra...@my-deja.com
/Thank you--I skimmed as many threads as I could, but didn't find this
/information.
Oh no, dont skim threads unless they are the first post which often carries the
article that gets discussed, endlessly..................
/I fully expect to be jumped on, but that's atc. So--which
/is it? Did they decide to stop this stuff, or was school out for the
/summer?
I dont think we have that information. One can only surmise/speculate that it
had to do with what many think was a deteriorating condition.
Barbara
Martha
debby
talking about taking some of the children to come live with her. He expected
something to happen too because in the interview he asked her right away if
anyone was hurt. Debby S.<sarg...@infi.net> Why didn't he get a damn
vasectomy??????
Patty wrote:
> I would like to know if this is really true about her being
> pregnant, and how many months along she is, if true. I don't
> blame the husband for the children's deaths, but considering
> we've been hearing she's been in a bad way mentally.. I do
> wonder about his judgment in general. I sure would not
> trust someone mentally unstable to be "in charge" of the birth
> control.
>
> PattyC
>
> The other question is why continue with the homeschooling
> when she is apparently so overwhelmed that the husband
> needs the m-i-l to come over and help with the children and
> house. And since the side effects of her medications include
> tiredness, no wonder she wasn't able to keep the house clean.
> She was coping with 1. all her children
> 2. new baby
> 3. father's death
> 4. homeschooling
> 5. mental illness
> 6. medications for illness & effects
> & then being changed, stopped
>
> She may very well have offered to do the homeschooling but
> it seems the husband could have put a stop to it to alleviate
> some of the stress in her life. Who would want your kids to
> be homeschooled by a wife not emotionally well? And how is
> 65% even close to being well. If you were talking about a
> physical illness, 65% would still be damm near not well
> enough to do what is normal. Maybe 80%, but not 65%.
>
> Patty
> ----
> Posted on http://www.etin.com - the FREE public USENET portal on the Web
> Complete SEARCHING, BROWSING, and POSTING of text and BINARY messages!
debby
Cliff or Linda Griffith wrote:
> GMSpider wrote:
> >
> > >If it turns out that this is indeed true---Andrea is Pregnant (6th
> > >time), Then there might be grounds for Domestic Abuse against the
> > >husband because what man would repeatedly impregnant his spouse KNOWING
> > >the disturbed state she was in? Indeed, his irresponsible,selfish
> > >actions might have contributed in driving her off the edge. What a
> > >Tragedy!
> > >
> > >rspada@web tv.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I already posted this in another thread but here goes. Her attorney says this
> > is not true, he said that before the gag order. Sooner or later we will know
> > for sure. Frankly, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she is.
> >
> > CONSERVATIVE, n.
> > A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the
> > Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
> >
> > The Devil's Dictionary
>
> I changed my earlier post because I had already thrown away the newpaper
> and it had been taken by the recycling people. But.....I thought I read
> that her lawyer refused to comment about the potential pregnancy. It was
> like, "Maybe so, maybe not; I'm not saying." Then another Houston radio
> station reported that the pregnancy test came back negative.
>
> Linda
debby
Debby S.<sarg...@infi.net>
Bird Lady
neon...@aol.com says...
Nope, I disagreed as well. I don't know what sort of joy Andrea
got from sex, but a woman in her state of withdrawal and despair
might find sex to be a soothing force, one thing she could hold
onto as peaceful and good.
bel
>
>
>
>
>
NEON NAPPI
From: Bird Lady <avian...@yahoo.com>
bel
AHA! I must have missed your post.
Well, that's two of us then, still however, a small minority:)
Barbara.
Zee
I read an article a while ago about a couple celebrating their 60th wedding
anniversary. I wish I could remember where I read it, it was very lovely--the
two of them seemed very sweet and were quite frank in their discussion of what
they thought it took to make a marriage work. One of the more interesting
things to me was that *both* of them said that there were things they'd done to
please their partner, including having sex, when they really "just weren't in
the mood." I'm paraphrasing, but I recall the woman saying something to the
effect of: "Of course we're not both always in the same mood all the time but
part of being a good spouse is not insisting on having your own way all the
time. Sometimes we make love when one of us wants to and the other doesn't and
sometimes we don't."
Even with all of her problems, isn't it at least *likely* that because she
loved her husband Andrea Yates was willing to have sex with him whether she
"felt like it" or not? Isn't it possible that despite everything Russell Yates
thought his wife was desireable and wanted to express his feelings for her in
that way?
It's blatantly obvious to all of us here that they shouldn't have had all of
those children but I wonder how many of us here were the products of parents
who sat down and carefully considered their financial, emotional, and social
conditions and planned the births of their children accordingly?
*zee*
mothra...@my-deja.com
>
> >Donna wrote:
> >>
> >> "Desi" <de...@cts.com> scribbled in <3b382ece$0$766$e2e...@nntp.cts.com>:
> >>
> >> >After hubby said no
> >> >more, she turns up pregnant!!
> >>
> >> She didn't "turn up" pregnant. It took two.
> >>
> >> --
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Donna
> >
> martha said:
> >I'm on Desi's side on this one. Among other things, Andrea Yates was on
> >SSRI's, which are notorious for destroying the libido. Plus she was
> >exhausted and mentally ill. It may have taken two, but one of them was
> >(I bet) not real interested.
>
> ***Check in with barbara on this one.
Barb's on Prozac?
News to me.
Martha
mothra...@my-deja.com
Thanks, Barbara. I think I'm pretty well caught up now. I'm a little
confused about the Church of Christ stuff, though--I'll do some checking
later (I'm busy busy busy, as someone said a while back)--maybe there is
more than one denomination called that. My experience with C of C (the
standard one) is that they are a fairly liberal bunch, none of this "no
music" stuff.
Martha
mothra...@my-deja.com
If you're talking about your insatiable sex drive, I saw that. But I
wasn't talking about being depressed and not being interested in sex.
I'm talking about the side effects of certain anti-depressants--did you
ever take a Prozac relative?
Martha
mothra...@my-deja.com
No argument here. I'm talking about the side effects of the
antidepressant medications she was taking, not about the effects of her
depression on her sex drive. If Russell is a hot potato in the sack, I
agree: that could have been her only reason for living.
Martha
Patty
To put it lightly, when Barb is down, she's on everyone's dance card.
Patty
Bird Lady
says...
Even if he wasn't a hot potato, I'm thinking that a woman
indisposed to much communication might find some relief in the
natural basic communication that occurs between a husband and
wife when they make love, especially when it's the only time they
have alone.
bel
>
NEON NAPPI
From: mothra...@my-deja.com
Martha
***********
I know someone's going to file this away for future reference but what the
hell!
I think at one time or another I've been on every anti depressant known to the
Western World ( and some Eastern ones as well:)
It doesnt necessarily have anything to do with libido whatever the hell that
really is. It's sometimes a matter of what sex in general ( not per se) means
to you *with the right person*.
Barbara
DedNdogYrs
Actually, there is a way and I heard of it done on a radio call-in show. The
man was asleep apparently had a sex-related dream. His girl friend scooped up
what was left of it and got herself pregnant, then sued him for 18 years of
child support. He was really angry about it. A large percentage of calls to
this show come from Seattle so if anyone has read of this in the paper there
maybe they could comment.
Dogs & children first.
Cliff or Linda Griffith
> Better check out <http://www.tmcm.com/> before it's too late!!!!1!
>
> GB
How DO you come up with all this [obscure] stuff, George? I love it!
Aren't you the one who provided the "Eel" recipe on the very day that I
needed a dish to take to the Bridge game?
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
>
> "Cliff or Linda Griffith" <grif...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3B3E5A34...@home.com...
> : NEON NAPPI wrote:
> : > Barbara<----------coffeeless so far this morning
> :
> : Go with the coffee and be happy!
> :
> : Linda
>
> Is that like GO with the Coffee (force) or I can hear the tune
> Be happy drink coffee doodoo Be happy drink coffee.
>
> Patty
I was thinking more in terms of "Be happy, drink coffee!" (Of course, I
can see a correlation between "coffee" and "doodoo", as well. To put it
bluntly.)
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
>
> <Perhaps she and her husband had decided early-on to have as many children as
> God gave them.>
>
> It always amazes me when people have houses full of children they can't feed
> and then say they had so many because God sent them and that they will continue
> having them as long as "God sends them."
>
> Dogs & children first.
It bothers me, too (especially if parents spend money on unnecessary
things and then claim poverty); but that doesn't seem to be the case
here. We haven't heard any indication that they were having trouble
feeding or clothing their kids, or keeping a roof over their heads. I
would assume that a NASA engineer would have a pretty good
health-plan...probably even good-enough to provide top-of-the-line
mental health care. [meow]
Linda
Cliff or Linda Griffith
I'm a bit late in getting back to this thread, and y'all may be finished
with it. Meanwhile, though, I read that the Yates were involved in a
religion "in another state"...sounded like "mail-order" to me. Andrea's
brother said Andrea had been raised Catholic, and that her mother is a
devout Catholic. It became unpleasant when Andrea had some
"proselytizing materials" sent to her family, materials that attacked
the Catholic Church. Lately, when Andrea's family members tried to call
the house, they got the answering machine, and their calls were rarely,
if ever returned. The brother specifically said the Yates were
"loners".
Linda
Maggie
***Why the hell would his girlfriend have to resort to scooping up the product
of wet dreams? Wouldn't she already have access to--at the very least--a used
condom?
Wondering who's dumb enough to believe this story.
NEON NAPPI
Roger Redding
>
>Thanks, Barbara. I think I'm pretty well caught up now. I'm a little
>confused about the Church of Christ stuff, though--I'll do some checking
>later (I'm busy busy busy, as someone said a while back)--maybe there is
>more than one denomination called that. My experience with C of C (the
>standard one) is that they are a fairly liberal bunch, none of this "no
>music" stuff.
>
who run Texas Christian University (Their church's are usually
Blahblah Christian Church) . One of my college roommates was the
son of a Disciples of Christ minister, and he was pretty liberal.
There's also something called the Church of Christ, United, which a
think was formed from the union of several smaller, more or less
mainstream denominations. The Church of Christ being discussed
here is quite another matter. I know Church of Christers who used
to be Southern Baptist, but left because they thought the Baptists
were getting too liberal....
Roger
George Byrd
on "Re: *** Now we know why Houston mother snapped?"
Cliff or Linda Griffith <grif...@home.com> wrote:
>George Byrd wrote:
>> Better check out <http://www.tmcm.com/> before it's too late!!!!1!
>>
>> GB
>
>How DO you come up with all this [obscure] stuff, George? I love it!
Too Much Coffee Man strip runs in a lo cal paper here.
>Aren't you the one who provided the "Eel" recipe on the very day that I
>needed a dish to take to the Bridge game?
Glad to help. Hope your Bridge club was suitably impressed with your
consummately good taste. Gourmet dishes are so rare these days.
GB
NEON NAPPI
From: Cliff or Linda Griffith <grif...@home.com>
Linda
*********
Wasnt there something also in that same article about them sending in money
--it sounded like a tithe.
Barbara
Raymond Spada
this could possibly be indicative of a progressive deterioration of the
relationship(Due to Andrea's mental Illness).
rspada@web tv.net
mothra...@my-deja.com
Oh, Roger, thank you!!! I did find another church of Christ, the United
one you mention, but you're right--it was the Disciples of Christ I was
thinking of in the first place. Whew.
Age-related memory loss is a terrible toll to pay, just to get to live
longer.
Martha
NEON NAPPI
/Age-related memory loss is a terrible toll to pay, just to get to live
/longer.
/Martha
Try drinking no liquids other than Tab and alchohol. It did wonders for
Maggie's retention rate.
Barbara