=> Boy, 5, Shoots, Kills Little Sister After Fight <= American Gun MADNESS!!
_ Prof. Jonez _
May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and killed his
sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little girl's burial.
James Michael Booher faces charges that include child neglect for allegedly
leaving a semiautomatic handgun where his son could find it.
Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi says 26-year-old Booher should have been
more careful in keeping the gun away from his son.
He says that is true especially since the boy had taken the gun from atop a
refrigerator and shot a bullet into a kitchen cabinet eight months ago.
Police say her brother climbed up to the top shelf of a bookcase to get the gun.
Then shot his 4-year-old Makayla in the face.
Booher was being held in the Marion County Jail on three counts of felony
neglect. He faces up to 56 years in prison.
Benj
Facts are Booher had the gun as a security guard and thus qualified
with the "training" that the "gun control" crowd demand as a
qualification for gun ownership. Booher had a hint that the 5 year
old had picked up a fascination with guns from TV when the boy
previously retrieved the gun and fired into a kitchen cabinet.
Booher, who claimed to be exercising firearm safety had removed the
magazine from the firearm and placed it on a high shelf, but neither
worked as the kid managed to retrieve the gun and then apply the
"Hollywood rules of gun safety". Namely 1. Find a gun. 2. point it at
a friend or family member. 3. pull the trigger!
The round left in the pipe did the job of killing his sister even
though the magazine was removed from the gun. The Glock a very popular
firearm with police and security guards did not have a "magazine
safety" that prevented firing when the magazine was removed. Police
and police firearms are almost always exempt from the "gun-control"
rules for civilian gun owners.
Booher was pulled from his daughter' funeral because he had been
hiding from police. Prosecutor Brizzi pushed for arrest and up to 56
years in jail for the negligence because Booher was currently
unemployed and had therefore joined the ranks of ordinary gun owners
and thus was no longer protected by "official" status. This prompted
the press to notice that Booher's house was filled with numerous scary
items such as "throwing stars" and samurai swords. Large knives were
also present and anonymous sources reported police suspected that a
number of "pointy sticks" were also nearby.
The bottom line is that all the authorities agreed that the "special"
exemptions that should apply to police and those working for those in
power should never apply to ordinary gun owners. And a good "gun case"
should certainly would not hurt a re-election campaign in November as
well.
Bo Raxo
"Benj" <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
news:67619687-8806-4cd3...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded gun to be
prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his hands on a
loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony, and lost
his right to possess a firearm.
Then there would have been no dead 4 year old.
That's how gun control works. Or it would, if the gun lovers had any sanity,
but instead they stamp their little feet and whine that any attempt at
regulating guns is a prelude to wholesale confiscation. That lie killed yet
another child.
Bo Raxo
tiny dancer
"Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MYidnSZZcrmzqLjV...@comcast.com...
From an article I already posted on this case.
Authorities said Booher's home on Sunday contained weapons such as Chinese
throwing stars and samurai swords. Brizzi said Booher's home was a dangerous
environment.
"It wasn't just one thing that led to the charging decision. It was sort of
a culmination of events -- the prior shooting, and all these weapons,"
Brizzi said. "If it wasn't the gun, it could have been any number of weapons
that could have put these kids in a dangerous place."
< I saw no indication the authorities *knew* about the previous shooting
incident until *after* the child killed his sister. It sounds to me like
this little boy has far deeper problems. This was no *accident*, he went
and got the gun and shot his sister, purposely. >
INDIANAPOLIS -- The father of a 5-year-old boy who police say fatally shot
his 4-year-old sister told reporters Thursday that neglect charges against
him should be dropped, arguing the emotional pain he feels is punishment
enough.
"I have to live with this for the rest of my life. I don't know if I can,"
James Michael Booher (pictured) tearfully said to reporters in an interview
at the Marion County Jail
But authorities argue the charges are warranted in part because Sunday's
shooting was not the first time that Booher's son had found a gun at home
and fired it.
"Booher knew that his son could get access to the gun," said Marion County
Prosecutor Carl Brizzi, who filed three felony counts of neglect against
Booher on Thursday.
Police said the boy had a confrontation with his sister, Makayla Booher, on
Sunday morning shortly before the shooting at their home in the 6100 block
of Massachusetts Avenue. The boy went downstairs, used a chair to reach a
gun at the top of a bookcase, went back upstairs and shot his sister at
close range, police said.
Authorities said that eight months ago, when the family was living at a
different Indianapolis home, the boy used a chair to reach his father's gun
atop a refrigerator. On that day, he fired a bullet into a kitchen cupboard,
police said.
James Booher was aware that his son "knew how to operate the gun and in fact
had fired the gun eight months before," Brizzi said.
After Sunday's shooting, according to police, Booher told investigators he
thought the .40-caliber semiautomatic gun had been stored unloaded because
its magazine had been removed. Police said that despite the magazine's
removal, a bullet still was in the gun.
Two years ago, police said, child welfare workers removed the children from
their father because medical personnel learned that the girl had broken
ribs. The welfare workers initially suspected abuse but eventually decided
not to report the case to police, 6News' Jack Rinehart reported.
Authorities said Booher's home on Sunday contained weapons such as Chinese
throwing stars and samurai swords. Brizzi said Booher's home was a dangerous
environment.
"It wasn't just one thing that led to the charging decision. It was sort of
a culmination of events -- the prior shooting, and all these weapons,"
Brizzi said. "If it wasn't the gun, it could have been any number of weapons
that could have put these kids in a dangerous place."
Booher was arrested Wednesday at the conclusion of Makayla's funeral.
According to the prosecutor's office, he had been hiding in the days after
Sunday's shooting, and police decided to arrest him at the funeral in part
because they considered him a flight risk, Rinehart reported.
In Thursday's interview at the jail, Booher said he perhaps "wasn't the
safest person" and that he perhaps "should have done something different,"
but that he never intended harm to come to his children.
"I would never intentionally hurt my children or put them in harm's way,
ever," he said.
He also had a message for his son: "That it wasn't his fault and that daddy
still loves him very much."
Booher was charged with two Class D felony counts of neglect and one Class A
count, which itself carries a penalty of between 20 to 50 years in prison
with a conviction.
Makayla's mother, Michelle Vensko, told 6News Wednesday that she doesn't
think he should be charged.
The boy and his teenage sister, who was also home at the time of the
shooting, were placed in foster care.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/16201644/detail.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bo Raxo
"tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dJaVj.793$Kk3...@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>
>
> < I saw no indication the authorities *knew* about the previous shooting
> incident until *after* the child killed his sister. It sounds to me like
> this little boy has far deeper problems. This was no *accident*, he went
> and got the gun and shot his sister, purposely. >
>
But that's because there is no mandatory reporting. If *every* adult who
was aware of it (like, say, the mother) knew that not reporting that
incident would get them an automatic six months in jail if it came out
later, they'd report it.
>
> INDIANAPOLIS -- The father of a 5-year-old boy who police say fatally shot
> his 4-year-old sister told reporters Thursday that neglect charges against
> him should be dropped, arguing the emotional pain he feels is punishment
> enough.
>
Oh jeez, I cannot believe anyone buys this load of crap. What a lame ass
excuse. If he really felt that bad, he'd be saying he deserves whatever he
gets, it doesn't matter, etc.
> "I have to live with this for the rest of my life. I don't know if I can,"
> James Michael Booher (pictured) tearfully said to reporters in an
> interview
> at the Marion County Jail
>
Well, we better pop you in to a locked facility then, on suicide watch.
snip
>
> Authorities said that eight months ago, when the family was living at a
> different Indianapolis home, the boy used a chair to reach his father's
> gun
> atop a refrigerator. On that day, he fired a bullet into a kitchen
> cupboard,
> police said.
>
You would think that if a gunshot went off in a residential neighborhood,
someone would notify the police. But it does depend on the neighborhood.
>
> In Thursday's interview at the jail, Booher said he perhaps "wasn't the
> safest person" and that he perhaps "should have done something different,"
> but that he never intended harm to come to his children.
>
> "I would never intentionally hurt my children or put them in harm's way,
> ever," he said.
>
That's why it's called involuntary manslaughter.
> Booher was charged with two Class D felony counts of neglect and one Class
> A
> count, which itself carries a penalty of between 20 to 50 years in prison
> with a conviction.
>
> Makayla's mother, Michelle Vensko, told 6News Wednesday that she doesn't
> think he should be charged.
>
"He pays the rent! What am I going to do?!?"
She knew he left a loaded gun laying around the house previously, plus all
the throwing stars, swords, etc. Charge her and throw her in jail as well.
But we know that won't happen.
> The boy and his teenage sister, who was also home at the time of the
> shooting, were placed in foster care.
>
Until they clean the house out. Then they'll be sent back to the wonderful
care they were receiving previously.
Bo Raxo
> http://www.theindychannel.com/news/16201644/detail.html
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Buck Mulligan
>Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>
>May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>
> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and killed his
>sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little girl's burial.
That's too bad.
Bama Brian
>>
>> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>
>> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and killed
>> his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little girl's burial.
>
> burial???
>
>> James Michael Booher faces charges that include child neglect for
>> allegedly leaving a semiautomatic handgun where his son could find it.
>>
>> Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi says 26-year-old Booher should have
>> been more careful in keeping the gun away from his son.
>>
>> He says that is true especially since the boy had taken the gun from atop
>> a refrigerator and shot a bullet into a kitchen cabinet eight months ago.
>>
>> Police say her brother climbed up to the top shelf of a bookcase to get
>> the gun. Then shot his 4-year-old Makayla in the face.
>>
>> Booher was being held in the Marion County Jail on three counts of felony
>> neglect. He faces up to 56 years in prison.
>
> guns all over the house and how that is just a wonderful childhood
> experience to shoot your 4-year-old sister in the face (just like it was
> for that 8-year-old boy, being shot in the chest by his father).
Which one was that?
--
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana, 1863 - 1952
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
Buck Mulligan
>This one:
>
>http://arbroath.blogspot.com/2008/04/father-kills-son-in-hunting-accident.h
>tml
We should ban guns to prevent accidents. Oh wait, that won't work
either:
http://japanesepolice.blogspot.com/2008/02/cop-fires-gun-by-accident-in-police-box.html
Buck Mulligan
>> >t.h tml
>>
>> We should ban guns to prevent accidents. Oh wait, that won't work
>> either:
>> http://japanesepolice.blogspot.com/2008/02/cop-fires-gun-by-accident-in-p
>> olice-box.html
>
>Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns? The idea of
>responsible gun ownership never seems to enter your minds, does it?
Why do you gun grabbing monkeys use anecdotal evidence as proof that
most or all gun owners are unsafe?
>Either
>we ban all guns or we allow gun owners to leave the loaded weapons laying
>around for their sons to kill their daughers. No mid-ground, is there?
That fact that the rate of accidental gun deaths has been dropping for
decades is something you people conveniently ignore, isn't it? Why is
that?
Buck Mulligan
>> >> >den t.h tml
>> >>
>> >> We should ban guns to prevent accidents. Oh wait, that won't work
>> >> either:
>> >> http://japanesepolice.blogspot.com/2008/02/cop-fires-gun-by-accident-i
>> >> n-p olice-box.html
>> >
>> >Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns? The idea of
>> >responsible gun ownership never seems to enter your minds, does it?
>>
>> Why do you gun grabbing monkeys use anecdotal evidence as proof that
>> most or all gun owners are unsafe?
>
>Who said all or most? I would say that the two gun owners in the stories
>presented were pretty damned unsafe, though.
Gee, I don't recall anyone arguing the fact that the two gun owners
were unsafe, do you?
>> >Either
>> >we ban all guns or we allow gun owners to leave the loaded weapons
>> >laying around for their sons to kill their daughers. No mid-ground, is
>> >there?
>>
>> That fact that the rate of accidental gun deaths has been dropping for
>> decades is something you people conveniently ignore, isn't it? Why is
>> that?
>
>Cite?
http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=120
tiny dancer
"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c6db24hips4bq1md8...@4ax.com...
> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>
>>Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>>>
>>> >Bama Brian <eddy...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> >> XXX wrote:
>>> >> > "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and
>>> >> >> killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little
>>> >> >> girl's burial.
This child did NOT accidentally 'shoot and kill his sister'. He
purposefully retrieved the gun *to* shoot his sister after a *disagreement*.
I'd say this child is very troubled to say the least, and will continue to
be a danger to others as he grows. Especially if he is returned to the
envirnoment in which he was raised.
The father had numerous other weapons besides guns in that house.
<Authorities said Booher's home on Sunday contained weapons such as Chinese
throwing stars and samurai swords. Brizzi said Booher's home was a dangerous
environment.
"It wasn't just one thing that led to the charging decision. It was sort of
a culmination of events -- the prior shooting, and all these weapons,"
Brizzi said. "If it wasn't the gun, it could have been any number of weapons
that could have put these kids in a dangerous place.">
<Police said the boy had a confrontation with his sister, Makayla Booher, on
Sunday morning shortly before the shooting at their home in the 6100 block
of Massachusetts Avenue. The boy went downstairs, used a chair to reach a
gun at the top of a bookcase, went back upstairs and shot his sister at
close range, police said.
Authorities said that eight months ago, when the family was living at a
different Indianapolis home, the boy used a chair to reach his father's gun
atop a refrigerator. On that day, he fired a bullet into a kitchen cupboard,
police said.>
td
Buck Mulligan
>> >> >> >cci den t.h tml
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We should ban guns to prevent accidents. Oh wait, that won't work
>> >> >> either:
>> >> >> http://japanesepolice.blogspot.com/2008/02/cop-fires-gun-by-acciden
>> >> >> t-i n-p olice-box.html
>> >> >
>> >> >Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns? The idea
>> >> >of responsible gun ownership never seems to enter your minds, does
>> >> >it?
>> >>
>> >> Why do you gun grabbing monkeys use anecdotal evidence as proof that
>> >> most or all gun owners are unsafe?
>> >
>> >Who said all or most? I would say that the two gun owners in the
>> >stories presented were pretty damned unsafe, though.
>>
>> Gee, I don't recall anyone arguing the fact that the two gun owners
>> were unsafe, do you?
>
>And I only recall the gun loons being the ones talking about banning guns.
Allow me to educate you:
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on CBS "60 Minutes": "If I could have
gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright
ban, picking up every one of them -- Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them
all in -- I would have done it."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/07/EDGIV5EQ6B1.DTL
>> >> >Either
>> >> >we ban all guns or we allow gun owners to leave the loaded weapons
>> >> >laying around for their sons to kill their daughers. No mid-ground,
>> >> >is there?
>> >>
>> >> That fact that the rate of accidental gun deaths has been dropping for
>> >> decades is something you people conveniently ignore, isn't it? Why is
>> >> that?
>> >
>> >Cite?
>> http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=120
>
>The NRA??? How about a reputable source that doesn't have a stake in the
>outcome of the statistics???
You asked for a cite and I gave it to you. Feel free to provide ANY
contradictory statistics from the source of your own choosing.
Buck Mulligan
wrote:
>
>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:c6db24hips4bq1md8...@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>>
>>>Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Bama Brian <eddy...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> >> XXX wrote:
>>>> >> > "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>>>> >> >> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and
>>>> >> >> killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little
>>>> >> >> girl's burial.
>
>
>This child did NOT accidentally 'shoot and kill his sister'. He
>purposefully retrieved the gun *to* shoot his sister after a *disagreement*.
>I'd say this child is very troubled to say the least, and will continue to
>be a danger to others as he grows. Especially if he is returned to the
>envirnoment in which he was raised.
Funny how you know exactly what took place. Were you there? I'm going
by the news article quoted above. Note the word "accidentally."
tiny dancer
IMO, an *accident* is when a gun goes off, without purpose or intent. When
someone retrieves a firearm, aims and shoots it at another with purposeful
*intent*, I'd hardly call that an *accident*. Would you?
Dad Charged In Alleged Sororicide: I've Suffered Enough
Man Asks For Leniency; Police Say Boy Shot Gun Before
INDIANAPOLIS -- The father of a 5-year-old boy who police say fatally shot
his 4-year-old sister told reporters Thursday that neglect charges against
him should be dropped, arguing the emotional pain he feels is punishment
enough.
"I have to live with this for the rest of my life. I don't know if I can,"
James Michael Booher (pictured) tearfully said to reporters in an interview
at the Marion County Jail
But authorities argue the charges are warranted in part because Sunday's
shooting was not the first time that Booher's son had found a gun at home
and fired it.
"Booher knew that his son could get access to the gun," said Marion County
Prosecutor Carl Brizzi, who filed three felony counts of neglect against
Booher on Thursday.
****Police said the boy had a confrontation with his sister, Makayla Booher,
on
Sunday morning shortly before the shooting at their home in the 6100 block
of Massachusetts Avenue. The boy went downstairs, used a chair to reach a
gun at the top of a bookcase, went back upstairs and shot his sister at
close range, police said.****
Authorities said that eight months ago, when the family was living at a
different Indianapolis home, the boy used a chair to reach his father's gun
atop a refrigerator. On that day, he fired a bullet into a kitchen cupboard,
police said.
James Booher was aware that his son "knew how to operate the gun and in fact
had fired the gun eight months before," Brizzi said.
After Sunday's shooting, according to police, Booher told investigators he
thought the .40-caliber semiautomatic gun had been stored unloaded because
its magazine had been removed. Police said that despite the magazine's
removal, a bullet still was in the gun.
Two years ago, police said, child welfare workers removed the children from
their father because medical personnel learned that the girl had broken
ribs. The welfare workers initially suspected abuse but eventually decided
not to report the case to police, 6News' Jack Rinehart reported.
Authorities said Booher's home on Sunday contained weapons such as Chinese
throwing stars and samurai swords. Brizzi said Booher's home was a dangerous
environment.
"It wasn't just one thing that led to the charging decision. It was sort of
a culmination of events -- the prior shooting, and all these weapons,"
Brizzi said. "If it wasn't the gun, it could have been any number of weapons
that could have put these kids in a dangerous place."
Booher was arrested Wednesday at the conclusion of Makayla's funeral.
According to the prosecutor's office, he had been hiding in the days after
Sunday's shooting, and police decided to arrest him at the funeral in part
because they considered him a flight risk, Rinehart reported.
In Thursday's interview at the jail, Booher said he perhaps "wasn't the
safest person" and that he perhaps "should have done something different,"
but that he never intended harm to come to his children.
"I would never intentionally hurt my children or put them in harm's way,
ever," he said.
He also had a message for his son: "That it wasn't his fault and that daddy
still loves him very much."
Booher was charged with two Class D felony counts of neglect and one Class A
count, which itself carries a penalty of between 20 to 50 years in prison
with a conviction.
Makayla's mother, Michelle Vensko, told 6News Wednesday that she doesn't
think he should be charged.
The boy and his teenage sister, who was also home at the time of the
shooting, were placed in foster care.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/16201644/detail.html
Buck Mulligan
>Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >news:c6db24hips4bq1md8...@4ax.com...
>> >> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>>> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >Bama Brian <eddy...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> XXX wrote:
>> >>>> >> > "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>> >>>> >> >> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot
>> >>>> >> >> and killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the
>> >>>> >> >> little girl's burial.
>> >
>> >
>> >This child did NOT accidentally 'shoot and kill his sister'. He
>> >purposefully retrieved the gun *to* shoot his sister after a
>> >*disagreement*. I'd say this child is very troubled to say the least,
>> >and will continue to be a danger to others as he grows. Especially if
>> >he is returned to the envirnoment in which he was raised.
>>
>> Funny how you know exactly what took place. Were you there? I'm going
>> by the news article quoted above. Note the word "accidentally."
>
>Guess that isn't the view of the locals, though.
Opinions are like assholes- everyone has one.
>The ploice have ruled that shooting as an accident
Yep. And they were there investigating it, and you weren't.
Buck Mulligan
>> >> >> >> >g-a cci den t.h tml
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> We should ban guns to prevent accidents. Oh wait, that won't
>> >> >> >> work either:
>> >> >> >> http://japanesepolice.blogspot.com/2008/02/cop-fires-gun-by-acci
>> >> >> >> den t-i n-p olice-box.html
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns? The
>> >> >> >idea of responsible gun ownership never seems to enter your minds,
>> >> >> >does it?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why do you gun grabbing monkeys use anecdotal evidence as proof
>> >> >> that most or all gun owners are unsafe?
>> >> >
>> >> >Who said all or most? I would say that the two gun owners in the
>> >> >stories presented were pretty damned unsafe, though.
>> >>
>> >> Gee, I don't recall anyone arguing the fact that the two gun owners
>> >> were unsafe, do you?
>> >
>> >And I only recall the gun loons being the ones talking about banning
>> >guns.
>>
>> Allow me to educate you:
>>
>> Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on CBS "60 Minutes": "If I could have
>> gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright
>> ban, picking up every one of them -- Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them
>> all in -- I would have done it."
>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03
>> /07/EDGIV5EQ6B1.DTL
>
>Holy shit! Sen. Feinstein is in this newsgroup????
Pathetic goal post move. You said:
:And I only recall the gun loons being the ones talking about banning
:guns.
I provided a citation proving you wrong.
>Wow! That IS an
>education. But, still, I don't recall her talking in this thread about
>banning guns.
Another goal post move. Now it has to be in this thread! [chuckle]
>> >> >> >Either
>> >> >> >we ban all guns or we allow gun owners to leave the loaded weapons
>> >> >> >laying around for their sons to kill their daughers. No
>> >> >> >mid-ground, is there?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That fact that the rate of accidental gun deaths has been dropping
>> >> >> for decades is something you people conveniently ignore, isn't it?
>> >> >> Why is that?
>> >> >
>> >> >Cite?
>> >> http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=120
>> >
>> >The NRA??? How about a reputable source that doesn't have a stake in
>> >the outcome of the statistics???
>>
>> You asked for a cite and I gave it to you. Feel free to provide ANY
>> contradictory statistics from the source of your own choosing.
>
>I'm not going to do your work for you, jackass.
Yeah, I didn't think you could find anything either.
If you'll notice, the article cites its sources. Feel free to dispute
any of them. Until then, I'll take it that you can't dispute it other
than to sputter in righteous indignation that your preconceived
notions might be wrong.
1. See BATFE, “Annual Firearm Manufacturers and Export Reports” (
www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/index.htm).
2. FBI, Crime in the United States 2006
(www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/index.html) and BJS
(http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/).
3. See www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars or www.wonder.cdc.gov/ .
4. Available at www.nsc.org/ .
5. See www.nraila.org/Issues .
6. For more on NRA training programs, visit www.nrahq.org/ (click
“Education and Training”) or call 703-267-1500.
7. For more on the Eddie Eagle program, visit
www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/ or call 800-231-0752.
8. Pete Shields, quoted in The New Yorker, “A Reporter At Large:
Handguns,” July 26, 1976.
9. NRA-ILA “Not 12 Per Day” fact sheet,
www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=21 .
10. Journal of the American Medical Association, Oct. 1, 1997.
Buck Mulligan
It doesn't really matter what you think. The police investigated the
incident, and said "accident."
You can wish it to be murder if it makes you feel better, though. And
strangely enough, I'll bet it does make you feel better.
_ Prof. Jonez _
Too bad it wasn't your kids ... asswipe.
Buck Mulligan
Too bad it wasn't you, cock breath. It will be a happy day when
someone turns your head into a pink cloud.
tiny dancer
"XXX" <xxxxx...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20080510115533.481$I...@newsreader.com...
> Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >news:c6db24hips4bq1md8...@4ax.com...
>> >> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>>> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >Bama Brian <eddy...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> XXX wrote:
>> >>>> >> > "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>> >>>> >> >> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot
>> >>>> >> >> and killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the
>> >>>> >> >> little girl's burial.
>> >
>> >
>> >This child did NOT accidentally 'shoot and kill his sister'. He
>> >purposefully retrieved the gun *to* shoot his sister after a
>> >*disagreement*. I'd say this child is very troubled to say the least,
>> >and will continue to be a danger to others as he grows. Especially if
>> >he is returned to the envirnoment in which he was raised.
>>
>> Funny how you know exactly what took place. Were you there? I'm going
>> by the news article quoted above. Note the word "accidentally."
>
>
>
> Indy Father Arrested After Son Kills Daughter
> Police have arrested an Indianapolis father whose five-year-old son
> fatally
> shot his four-year-old sister with a handgun. A spokesman says the Marion
> County Prosecutor has not decided what charges to file. Police arrested
> the
> 26-year-old father at the girl's funeral yesterday.
>
> Or this one; watch the video:
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=953_1210345258
>
> The ploice have ruled that shooting as an accident (which doesn't mean
> that
> it is), but that everything leading up to the shooting was criminal.
I stand by my original comment. When one goes to find a gun, climbs up on a
chair to get said gun, retrieves said gun, and runs back to shoot his
sister, the same sister he'd just had an argument with, straight in the face
at point blank range, that doesn't, in my book, constitute *an accident*.
td
tiny dancer
If you are arguing from a pro gun ownership stance, are you too dim to
realize calling this an *accident* hurts your position?
I should preface this by saying I own guns, I can put six shots through the
heart with my .357 at 25 ft. I am not a 'gun nut' nor the opposite. But I
do find it highly offensive to be lumped into a group with irresponsible
owners such as this father and the drunken pot-head who mistook his 8 yr.
old child for a turkey.
Deadrat
>>> >> >> >ng-a cci den t.h tml
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> We should ban guns to prevent accidents. Oh wait, that won't
>>> >> >> work either:
>>> >> >> http://japanesepolice.blogspot.com/2008/02/cop-fires-gun-by-acc
>>> >> >> iden t-i n-p olice-box.html
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns? The
>>> >> >idea of responsible gun ownership never seems to enter your
>>> >> >minds, does it?
>>> >>
>>> >> Why do you gun grabbing monkeys use anecdotal evidence as proof
>>> >> that most or all gun owners are unsafe?
>>> >
>>> >Who said all or most? I would say that the two gun owners in the
>>> >stories presented were pretty damned unsafe, though.
>>>
>>> Gee, I don't recall anyone arguing the fact that the two gun owners
>>> were unsafe, do you?
>>
>>And I only recall the gun loons being the ones talking about banning
>>guns.
>
> Allow me to educate you:
>
> Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on CBS "60 Minutes": "If I could have
> gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright
> ban, picking up every one of them -- Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them
> all in -- I would have done it."
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/
> 03/07/EDGIV5EQ6B1.DTL
We've been through this before. You have strong arguments for your side,
so why lie? This interview was about assault weapons, and they were the
antecedent of DiFi's "them."
<snip>
Buck Mulligan
Um, if you will recall, the police said it was an accident. I don't
have access to any more information about it that you do. So I have no
reason to believe it's anything but an accident.
>I should preface this by saying I own guns, I can put six shots through the
>heart with my .357 at 25 ft. I am not a 'gun nut' nor the opposite.
Yeah, uh-huh, sure. That has *SO* much bearing on this discussion.
> But I
>do find it highly offensive to be lumped into a group with irresponsible
>owners such as this father and the drunken pot-head who mistook his 8 yr.
>old child for a turkey.
You can fight reality all you want. Believe what you want to believe.
I'll stick with the facts on hand.
tiny dancer
Yup, as I thought, too dim.
tiny dancer
>> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >news:c6db24hips4bq1md8...@4ax.com...
>> >> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>>> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >Bama Brian <eddy...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> XXX wrote:
>> >>>> >> > "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>> >>>> >> >> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot
>> >>>> >> >> and killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the
>> >>>> >> >> little girl's burial.
>> >
>> >
>> >This child did NOT accidentally 'shoot and kill his sister'. He
>> >purposefully retrieved the gun *to* shoot his sister after a
>> >*disagreement*. I'd say this child is very troubled to say the least,
>> >and will continue to be a danger to others as he grows. Especially if
>> >he is returned to the envirnoment in which he was raised.
>>
>> Funny how you know exactly what took place. Were you there? I'm going
>> by the news article quoted above. Note the word "accidentally."
>
>
> http://www.wlzq.com/news/2008/05/indy-father-arrested-after-son-kills.htm
>
> Indy Father Arrested After Son Kills Daughter
> Police have arrested an Indianapolis father whose five-year-old son
> fatally
> shot his four-year-old sister with a handgun. A spokesman says the Marion
> County Prosecutor has not decided what charges to file. Police arrested
> the
> 26-year-old father at the girl's funeral yesterday.
>
> Or this one; watch the video:
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=953_1210345258
>
> The ploice have ruled that shooting as an accident (which doesn't mean
> that
> it is), but that everything leading up to the shooting was criminal.
It appears the *locals* are too frightened by the truth. That a five year
old child, settled his dispute with his four year old sister, by blowing her
head off. I would also surmise that this child will essentially go
'unhelped' and we will hear more from him in the future, unfortunately.
td
Buck Mulligan
Explain: You're too dim to realize that the police- with access to
more information than you'll ever possibly have- have made an educated
and informed decision, or you're too dim to realize that you've made a
fool of yourself by making a decision based on what the neighbors
think?
Buck Mulligan
wrote:
>It appears the *locals* are too frightened by the truth.
Your 'truth', you mean?
tiny dancer
If I'm not mistaken, this was the same *rant* used about the turkey hunter
who shot his own child.
PLMerite
>
> Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns?
Because that's where the road goes. The very fact that you say "loons"
implies that you believe we're crazy, and I'm sure you don't think crazy
people should have guns.
Regards, PLMerite
--
"Whether they admit it or not, the Democrats need lawbreakers such as
illegal aliens -- who are being illegally registered as Democrats -- and
killers, rapists and robbers in order to increase their base of far-left
voters." Mike Baker, political strategist and pollster.
PLMerite
"tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FUjVj.2365$C8....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
> If you are arguing from a pro gun ownership stance, are you too dim to
> realize calling this an *accident* hurts your position?
I want to know more details about the mechanics of this accident. The
string of actions required for a five-year-old child to successfully fire a
handgun and have the bullet kill his (apparently) intended targets is pretty
remarkable.
Regards, PLMerite
--
"Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil is not overcome by fleeing
from it." - Jeff Cooper
Herb Martin
"PLMerite" <stoc...@smokebombhill.com> wrote in message
news:p1lVj.18816$5Y1.17834@trnddc04...
>
> "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:FUjVj.2365$C8....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are arguing from a pro gun ownership stance, are you too dim to
>> realize calling this an *accident* hurts your position?
>
>
> I want to know more details about the mechanics of this accident. The
> string of actions required for a five-year-old child to successfully fire
> a handgun and have the bullet kill his (apparently) intended targets is
> pretty remarkable.
Yes, there is (at least) some negligence involved, and clearly it requires
more than a firearm, more than leaving it accessible, more than even
leaving it loaded.
tiny dancer
> news:FUjVj.2365$C8....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are arguing from a pro gun ownership stance, are you too dim to
>> realize calling this an *accident* hurts your position?
>
>
> I want to know more details about the mechanics of this accident. The
> string of actions required for a five-year-old child to successfully fire
> a handgun and have the bullet kill his (apparently) intended targets is
> pretty remarkable.
>
>
> Regards, PLMerite
The child had already fired the gun once before that we know of, eight
months earlier. The clip was apparently removed from the gun, but a round
remained in the chamber. The 4 yr. old sister was shot at point blank
range, in the face, after an 'altercation' with her five year old brother.
The brother, after fighting with his sister, went downstairs, used a chair
to climb up and reach the gun off a bookshelf, returned upstairs, and shot
his little sister in the face. All per police reports.
Buck Mulligan
wrote:
>If I'm not mistaken, this was the same *rant* used about the turkey hunter
>who shot his own child.
>
Can't deal with the discussion at hand, eh?
Buck Mulligan
>"PLMerite" <stoc...@smokebombhill.com> wrote:
>> "XXX" <xxxxx...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:20080510102138.749$v...@newsreader.com...
>> >
>> > Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns?
>>
>> Because that's where the road goes. The very fact that you say "loons"
>> implies that you believe we're crazy, and I'm sure you don't think crazy
>> people should have guns.
>>
>> Regards, PLMerite
>
>I say "loons" because you are loons!
And you wonder why we want you to keep the fuck away from us.
[chuckle]
tiny dancer
this really passes for *discussion* on your group. If so, I'd say 'gun
loons' is an apt description then.
tiny dancer
> either. The 5-year-old wasn't capable of forming intent. The 5-year-old
> didn't commit a crime, but the father did (obviously the police agree,
> since they arrested him).
Of course I agree, a five year old can't commit a *murder*. But this was no
*accident* either. If that five year old doesn't get some serious help, I
predict he will commit a murder though, once he's old enough to be charged
as such. Sad for the child, tragic for the little girl, but shame on the
father.
Buck Mulligan
wrote:
>
>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:b5rb245kr99v1cdpo...@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>If I'm not mistaken, this was the same *rant* used about the turkey hunter
>>>who shot his own child.
>>>
>>
>> Can't deal with the discussion at hand, eh?
>
>
>this really passes for *discussion* on your group.
Whatever you want to call it, it's plain you can't deal with it.
[chuckle] Why are you here, then? Just to get slapped around?
> If so, I'd say 'gun
>loons' is an apt description then.
Your hate speech doesn't bother me.
Buck Mulligan
>Too bad!
[chuckle] usenet is as close as you'll ever get. I'm not worried.
tiny dancer
> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:b5rb245kr99v1cdpo...@4ax.com...
>>> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>If I'm not mistaken, this was the same *rant* used about the turkey
>>>>hunter
>>>>who shot his own child.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can't deal with the discussion at hand, eh?
>>
>>
>>this really passes for *discussion* on your group.
>
> Whatever you want to call it, it's plain you can't deal with it.
LOL. Name calling and ranting. What the average age of posters over there,
junior high?
> [chuckle] Why are you here, then?
Here where? You crossed posted to HERE. Can't deal with logic, 'eh? Gun
loons is right.
Just to get slapped around?
This passes for slapping around? Pikers.
>
>> If so, I'd say 'gun
>>loons' is an apt description then.
>
> Your hate speech doesn't bother me.
Hate speech? I haven't come close to 'hate speech'.
PLMerite
> "PLMerite" <stoc...@smokebombhill.com> wrote:
>> "XXX" <xxxxx...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:20080510102138.749$v...@newsreader.com...
>> >
>> > Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns?
>>
>> Because that's where the road goes. The very fact that you say "loons"
>> implies that you believe we're crazy, and I'm sure you don't think crazy
>> people should have guns.
>>
>> Regards, PLMerite
>
> post
> you would have seen that my point is that gun owners need to be more
> responsible. Responsible means that they have to be held responsible for
> what happens with their gun. If they leave it laying around, loaded, with
> a 5-year-old who has a history of taking that gun and shooting it in the
> house then that gun owner needs to go to jail for manslaughter. Just like
> the "hunter" who got high and shot his 8-year-old son because he thought
> he
> was a turkey.
Yeah, I think you're probably one of the reasons I own the weapons I do.
Regards, PLMerite
--
"Miracles do not cluster. Hold on to the Constitution of the United States
of America and the Republic for which it stands - what has happened once in
six thousand years may never happen again. Hold on to your Constitution,
for if the Constitution shall fail there will be anarchy throughout the
world." - Daniel Webster, 1851
Buck Mulligan
wrote:
>
>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:uutb2457dgkkivpac...@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:b5rb245kr99v1cdpo...@4ax.com...
>>>> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>If I'm not mistaken, this was the same *rant* used about the turkey
>>>>>hunter
>>>>>who shot his own child.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can't deal with the discussion at hand, eh?
>>>
>>>
>>>this really passes for *discussion* on your group.
>>
>> Whatever you want to call it, it's plain you can't deal with it.
>
>
>LOL. Name calling and ranting.
Your just pegged my hypocrisy meter.
>What the average age of posters over there,
>junior high?
I'm sure yours drops the average considerably.
>> [chuckle] Why are you here, then?
>
>
>Here where? You crossed posted to HERE.
Uh, I'm talking about usenet, "loon." Just get your free AOL disk?
> Just to get slapped around?
>This passes for slapping around? Pikers.
You didn't put much effort into your logic, either.
>>> If so, I'd say 'gun
>>>loons' is an apt description then.
>>
>> Your hate speech doesn't bother me.
>Hate speech? I haven't come close to 'hate speech'.
Of course not. LOL You people can _always_ find a way to justify it.
Buck Mulligan
>
>"XXX" <xxxxx...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:20080510143723.314$l...@newsreader.com...
>> "PLMerite" <stoc...@smokebombhill.com> wrote:
>>> "XXX" <xxxxx...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:20080510102138.749$v...@newsreader.com...
>>> >
>>> > Why do you gun loons always jump straight to banning guns?
>>>
>>> Because that's where the road goes. The very fact that you say "loons"
>>> implies that you believe we're crazy, and I'm sure you don't think crazy
>>> people should have guns.
>>>
>>> Regards, PLMerite
>>
>> I say "loons" because you are loons! If you hadn't cut the rest of my
>> post
>> you would have seen that my point is that gun owners need to be more
>> responsible. Responsible means that they have to be held responsible for
>> what happens with their gun. If they leave it laying around, loaded, with
>> a 5-year-old who has a history of taking that gun and shooting it in the
>> house then that gun owner needs to go to jail for manslaughter. Just like
>> the "hunter" who got high and shot his 8-year-old son because he thought
>> he
>> was a turkey.
>
>
>Yeah, I think you're probably one of the reasons I own the weapons I do.
No shit! He think's "we're" loons because of something someone else
did.
Psychotic and paranoid behavior like this is an excellent reason to be
prepared to protect yourself and your family.
PLMerite
I'm having a problem with a 4/5 year old's hands being big enough to hold
the gun and pull the trigger unless it was a really small pistol, like a .22
or .25 auto.
From the article
http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080509/NEWS06/80509003
:
A grief-stricken Booher, who has worked as a security guard, said he thought
the gun had been made safe. The .40-caliber Glock's magazine had been
removed, police said, but a bullet apparently remained in the chamber.
"There was no way there was one in the chamber," Booher said. "I completely
unloaded that gun, and the slide was locked back. I've always been really
safe with my guns."
-----------------------------------
I'm calling some kind of b.s. If the slide was open and locked back it
should have ejected any round in the chamber. But if daddy hadn't really
worked the slide and cleared the weapon, could the kid have managed the DAO
5 lb trigger pull and the "safe action" trigger safety?
I'm not familiar with Glocks to know how fantastic this incident is.
The kid also has issues.
Regards, PLMerite
Jim Alder
news:MYidnSZZcrmzqLjV...@comcast.com:
>
> "Benj" <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
> news:67619687-8806-4cd3...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 9, 9:44 pm, "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote:
>>> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>>
>>> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>>
>>> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and killed
>>> his
>>> sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little girl's burial.
>>>
>>> James Michael Booher faces charges that include child neglect for
>>> allegedly leaving a semiautomatic handgun where his son could find it.
>>>
>>> Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi says 26-year-old Booher should have
>>> been more careful in keeping the gun away from his son.
>>>
>>> He says that is true especially since the boy had taken the gun from atop
>>> a refrigerator and shot a bullet into a kitchen cabinet eight months ago.
>>>
>>> Police say her brother climbed up to the top shelf of a bookcase to get
>>> the gun.
>>> Then shot his 4-year-old Makayla in the face.
>>>
>>> Booher was being held in the Marion County Jail on three counts of felony
>>> neglect. He faces up to 56 years in prison.
>>
>> Facts are Booher had the gun as a security guard and thus qualified
>> with the "training" that the "gun control" crowd demand as a
>> qualification for gun ownership. Booher had a hint that the 5 year
>> old had picked up a fascination with guns from TV when the boy previously
>> retrieved the gun and fired into a kitchen cabinet.
>
> The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded gun to be
> prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his hands on a
> loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony, and lost
> his right to possess a firearm.
Of course. There could be no other solution.
Or...
The first time the 5 year old climbed up on top of the fridge and got the
gun, the father should have spent a few bucks on a pistol safe. Not as
satisfying as taking away a person's rights, but just as effective. More so,
actually.
> Then there would have been no dead 4 year old.
There are always going to be dead four year olds. Cars will back over them,
swimming pools will claim them, buckets of water will drown them.
And there will always be self-righteous control freaks like yourself, who
think the government can stop all crime, all suffering, all wrongs.
> That's how gun control works.
Gun control has never worked. It never will.
> Or it would, if the gun lovers had any sanity,
> but instead they stamp their little feet and whine that any attempt at
> regulating guns is a prelude to wholesale confiscation. That lie killed yet
> another child.
The lies are all yours. The death of a child merely an excuse for more
lies.
--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."
Buck Mulligan
>The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded gun to be
>prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his hands on a
>loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony, and lost
>his right to possess a firearm.
And why wasn't he? Did George Bush and the NRA stop it from happening
somehow?
Tell us more of your paranoid fantasies.
Jim Alder
@mid.individual.net:
> Buck Mulligan wrote:
>> In talk.politics.guns "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>>
>>> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>>
>>> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and
>>> killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little
>>> girl's burial.
>>
>> That's too bad.
>
> Too bad it wasn't your kids ... asswipe.
what a stupid and vile thing to say.
Herb Martin
>
> "PLMerite" <stoc...@smokebombhill.com> wrote in message
> news:p1lVj.18816$5Y1.17834@trnddc04...
>>
>> "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:FUjVj.2365$C8....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are arguing from a pro gun ownership stance, are you too dim to
>>> realize calling this an *accident* hurts your position?
>>
>>
>> I want to know more details about the mechanics of this accident. The
>> string of actions required for a five-year-old child to successfully fire
>> a handgun and have the bullet kill his (apparently) intended targets is
>> pretty remarkable.
>>
>>
>> Regards, PLMerite
>
>
> The child had already fired the gun once before that we know of, eight
> months earlier. The clip was apparently removed from the gun, but a round
> remained in the chamber.
If accurate, that is DOUBLE negligence or rank incompetence (another form
of negligence more pernicious perhaps).
Had they left it the other way around, magazine (it certainly was not a
"clip")
in the firearm but chamber empty there is virtually no chance a 5-year old
could load/cock and fire it.
Many grown women cannot operate a semi-automatic pistol slide.
> The 4 yr. old sister was shot at point blank range, in the face, after an
> 'altercation' with her five year old brother. The brother, after fighting
> with his sister, went downstairs, used a chair to climb up and reach the
> gun off a bookshelf, returned upstairs, and shot his little sister in the
> face. All per police reports.
Well, it does sound like the kid worked at doing it.
Simple competence, knowing how high or how locked up the firearm needed
to be for THAT 5-year old, and keeping the round out of the chamber would
have sufficed.
Herb Martin
>
> "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5glVj.2407$C8....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> A grief-stricken Booher, who has worked as a security guard, said he
> thought the gun had been made safe. The .40-caliber Glock's magazine had
> been removed, police said, but a bullet apparently remained in the
> chamber.
>
> "There was no way there was one in the chamber," Booher said. "I
> completely unloaded that gun, and the slide was locked back. I've always
> been really safe with my guns."
>
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> I'm calling some kind of b.s. If the slide was open and locked back it
> should have ejected any round in the chamber. But if daddy hadn't really
> worked the slide and cleared the weapon, could the kid have managed the
> DAO 5 lb trigger pull and the "safe action" trigger safety?
We don't know the trigger weight on this one and a lot have either a lower
or higher trigger. I believe it CAN be fired by a small one. Merely
jamming
the entire hand into the trigger guard might do it.
> I'm not familiar with Glocks to know how fantastic this incident is.
[I know Glocks]
Were it truly unloaded it is fantastic. If there was one in the chamber
it is possible but difficult.
One would also want to see "how he held it" -- many methods would
end up injuring the shooter if the hands are not big enough to hold
it by the grip in one hand while operating the trigger with the other.
Benj
tiny dancer wrote:
> Authorities said Booher's home on Sunday contained weapons such as Chinese
> throwing stars and samurai swords. Brizzi said Booher's home was a dangerous
> environment.
You mean a DANGEROUS PLACE like YOUR house is? I'm willing to bet
there are LARGE sharp knives in the kitchen drawer and worse dangerous
chemicals under your sink. Is there a LOCK on you knife drawer? Is
there a LOCK on the doors to your kitchen sink? Do you (I'm sure you
don't) know that FAR more children are accidentally killed by the
stuff under a sink than by guns?
"Throwing stars" are "dangerous"?? What? Are you still living in the
14th century? Maybe they were serious business back before
antibiotics but I'll bet nobody has died from a "throwing star" for
centuries! Needless to say this kind of thing is the media lies and
hype you gun-grabbers thrive on!
When your kids die from something under your sink, Tiny Dancer, I'll
send Judge Dredd around to kill both you AND your children on the
spot! That's the kind of "justice" you libs prefer isn't it?
> "I have to live with this for the rest of my life. I don't know if I can,"
> James Michael Booher (pictured) tearfully said to reporters in an interview
> at the Marion County Jail.
Well, I don't buy this "tearful" bullshit either! Sure you liberals
eat it up! So much better to be ruled by emotion and "feelings" and
reason and logic. But just take a minute from the "lifetime channel"
to notice that this clown is one of YOUR people! He's NOT what you
always call a "gunloon"! He's a "trained" security guard. The VERY
people that YOU always say need to be exempted from "gun control"
laws! This whole thing is on a par with Sarah Brady buying a gun for
her son.
Can you say "Hypocrite"? I knew that you could!
Booher is NOT "one us us". He is one of Youse! I think 56 years is a
bit stiff for a bit of negligence. I mean did you see the post about
the guy doing domestic violence who had been arrested 128 times? Have
you noticed how often SERIOUS crimes like rape and murder are
committed over and over by felons who just walk through the "revolving
door" set up by you libs! Oh right! Murder isn't the criminal's fault
it's SOCIETY's fault or maybe the fault of the fact the guy had great
great grandparents who were once slaves! But when one of your own
makes a mistake with his "official" gun and you pretend you don't know
him and start calling for the death penalty!
You people are SERIOUSLY SICK!
Obviously these kind of incidents can ONLY be prevented by totally
disarming all police, security guards, government agents and all other
officials now permitted to carry. There is NOTHING in the
constitution that gives them that right (except in time of war!) It
is THE PEOPLE who have a right to bear arms NOT officials!
I say we start disarming police and security guards at once. Peaceful
England has proven that unarmed police are more effective than armed
ones. We all know that if police have guns, then those guns will only
lead to more violence! Every traffic stop soon becomes a wild west
shootout! It's bad enough police are killing our mother's and children
with needless "high speed chases", let alone having all of them
walking around with several guns on their person.
This Time, gun-grabbers, I'm with YOU! I say totally disarm all law
enforcement and security officials AT ONCE! Maybe THEN children like
this poor innocent little girl will have a chance to live!
Bama Brian
>>>> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>>>
>>>> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>>>
>>>> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and
>>>> killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little
>>>> girl's burial.
>>> the burial???
>>>
>>>> James Michael Booher faces charges that include child neglect for
>>>> allegedly leaving a semiautomatic handgun where his son could find it.
>>>>
>>>> Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi says 26-year-old Booher should
>>>> have been more careful in keeping the gun away from his son.
>>>>
>>>> He says that is true especially since the boy had taken the gun from
>>>> atop a refrigerator and shot a bullet into a kitchen cabinet eight
>>>> months ago.
>>>>
>>>> Police say her brother climbed up to the top shelf of a bookcase to
>>>> get the gun. Then shot his 4-year-old Makayla in the face.
>>>>
>>>> Booher was being held in the Marion County Jail on three counts of
>>>> felony neglect. He faces up to 56 years in prison.
>>> loaded guns all over the house and how that is just a wonderful
>>> childhood experience to shoot your 4-year-old sister in the face (just
>>> like it was for that 8-year-old boy, being shot in the chest by his
>>> father).
>> Which one was that?
>
> This one:
>
> http://arbroath.blogspot.com/2008/04/father-kills-son-in-hunting-accident.h
> tml
AFAIK, the father had been drinking and smoking marijuana. I'd say it
was a genuine case of negligent homicide.
This case had nothing to do with guns "lying around".
--
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana, 1863 - 1952
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
Gray Ghost
> Buck Mulligan wrote:
>> In talk.politics.guns "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>>
>>> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>>
>>> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and
>>> killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little
>>> girl's burial.
>>
>> That's too bad.
>
> Too bad it wasn't your kids ... asswipe.
>
>
>
What a lovely and compassionate humna being you are. But do tell us more I'm
sure you're unrestrained hatred is doing wonders for your side of the
argument.
I begining to think we need to add your religion to the list of those to be
exterminated. Quite an antisocial belief system, definitely at odds with
civlized socirty.
Frank
Buck Mulligan
wrote:
We don't have to worry too much about jones unless he gets a hold of
some bad crank.
Jim Alder
news:DfSdnbTRPOjcnbrV...@earthlink.com:
Only drinking. The marijuana charge was from last century. But a .06 blood
alcohol level was plenty of reason for the progun folks to stop defending the
gun phobes rush to judgement. Poor 'tiny dancer' was so disappointed that no
one came to his defense after the drinking came to light.
> I'd say it was a genuine case of negligent homicide.
Don't know what else to call it.
> This case had nothing to do with guns "lying around".
Phobias are simple minded things. Gun bad. Kid die. Same same.
Jim Alder
$9...@newsreader.com:
>> >> ent.h tml
>> >
>> > AFAIK, the father had been drinking and smoking marijuana.
>>
>> Only drinking. The marijuana charge was from last century. But a .06
>> blood alcohol level was plenty of reason for the progun folks to stop
>> defending the gun phobes rush to judgement. Poor 'tiny dancer' was so
>> disappointed that no one came to his defense after the drinking came to
>> light.
>>
>> > I'd say it was a genuine case of negligent homicide.
>>
>> Don't know what else to call it.
>
> I seem to recall you calling it a "wonderful childhood experience".
Well, yeah, if they were BOTH drinking.
Bo Raxo
"Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A9AD6C10289C...@216.196.97.142...
I like it. How about if he did it *before* the first time the kid found the
gun. Duh!
But the only way that would happen is if the law required him to do so .
>> Then there would have been no dead 4 year old.
>
> There are always going to be dead four year olds. Cars will back over
> them,
> swimming pools will claim them, buckets of water will drown them.
>
Oh, I love this gun nut argument: if we can't stop 100% of the deaths, why
stop any at all?
Hey, there are still people who die in auto accidents. So why bother with
licenses and traffic laws safety regulations for cars - there will always be
some people getting killed, right?
> And there will always be self-righteous control freaks like yourself,
> who
> think the government can stop all crime, all suffering, all wrongs.
>
There will always be liars like you who claim your opponents take some
ridiculous position. What bullshit.
>> That's how gun control works.
>
> Gun control has never worked. It never will.
>
Take a look at the rest of the industrialized world: their gun laws, their
gun deaths.
It works. Proven.
Bo Raxo
Bo Raxo
The NRA effectively blocks legislation in Congress. This is pretty
obvious - uh, it's their biggest draw for membership, the lobbying clout.
>
> Tell us more of your paranoid fantasies.
Are you just unaware of the NRA's lobbying, and promises to "protect your
gun rights", or are you just lying?
Buck Mulligan
>
>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:9ohc24himmn94e6ai...@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded gun to
>>>be
>>>prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his hands on a
>>>loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony, and lost
>>>his right to possess a firearm.
>>
>> And why wasn't he? Did George Bush and the NRA stop it from happening
>> somehow?
>
>The NRA effectively blocks legislation in Congress. This is pretty
>obvious - uh, it's their biggest draw for membership, the lobbying clout.
Ooooh, so tell me what laws the NRA blocked in this case. I really
want to know.
>> Tell us more of your paranoid fantasies.
>
>Are you just unaware of the NRA's lobbying, and promises to "protect your
>gun rights", or are you just lying?
What I'm aware of is you blaming the NRA for every bad thing that
happens.
Bama Brian
All that's proven is that when guns aren't available, the people use
something else.
From Nationmaster.com. The US is 38th here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_con_wit_kni_swo_or_dag_percap-knife-sword-dagger-per-capita
or
http://tinyurl.com/5ksl8m
And even when guns aren't available, the people still manage to get them
and use them. Note that Australia and Japan both still have assaults by
handgun:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_ass_by_han_dis_percap-assault-handgun-discharge-per-capita
or
http://tinyurl.com/2f2qcj
So if you don't mind citing something to show how well it works, I'll
wait. But not too long, since you won't be able to cite anything except
your opinion.
Jim Alder
> "Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote...
>> "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Benj" <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote...
Yeah, those states that have a storage requirement NEVER have these
accidents. All we need is one more law. Again.
>>> Then there would have been no dead 4 year old.
>>
>> There are always going to be dead four year olds. Cars will back over
>> them, swimming pools will claim them, buckets of water will drown
>> them.
>
> Oh, I love this gun nut argument: if we can't stop 100% of the deaths, why
> stop any at all?
How about; if we make everyone store their guns in a safe all the time,
how many lives will that cost? Not everyone has a 5 year old in the house, you
know. The difference between grabbing a gun from a drawer and getting it out
of the safe could cost you your life, too.
> Hey, there are still people who die in auto accidents. So why bother with
> licenses and traffic laws safety regulations for cars - there will always be
> some people getting killed, right?
Why not make them all keep their cars on their own property at all times?
That would cut accidents to nil, I'll bet. Restrictions are the only way. So
long as they don't restrict you, right?
>> And there will always be self-righteous control freaks like yourself,
>> who
>> think the government can stop all crime, all suffering, all wrongs.
>
> There will always be liars like you who claim your opponents take some
> ridiculous position. What bullshit.
Don't call me a liar, asshole. No one needs to lie to defeat the gun
phobe's arguments.
>>> That's how gun control works.
>>
>> Gun control has never worked. It never will.
>
> Take a look at the rest of the industrialized world: their gun laws, their
> gun deaths.
You should. I have.
> It works. Proven.
Wrong. Check the gun deaths BEFORE the gun laws and you will see there is
little difference after. Except for the total bans, which is when people
REALLY start dying.
Jim Alder
And since when, sir, is the opinion of a gunphobe control freak NOT the
determining authority?
RD (The Sandman)
>> The first time the 5 year old climbed up on top of the fridge and
>> got
>> the
>> gun, the father should have spent a few bucks on a pistol safe. Not
>> as satisfying as taking away a person's rights, but just as
>> effective. More so,
>> actually.
>>
>
> I like it. How about if he did it *before* the first time the kid
> found the gun. Duh!
>
> But the only way that would happen is if the law required him to do so
> .
>
Not true. Those who are resposible will be responsible law or no law.
Those that aren't won't pay much attention to the law anyway.
--
RD (The Sandman)
War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
RD (The Sandman)
>>> That's how gun control works.
>>
>> Gun control has never worked. It never will.
>>
>
> Take a look at the rest of the industrialized world: their gun laws,
> their gun deaths.
>
> It works. Proven.
>
No, it isn't. For every place with strict gun laws and low deaths one
can find places with strict gun laws and high deaths. Same with lax gun
laws and high deaths or lax gun laws and low deaths. If you look at all
the nations in Europe you can find ones in each category.
Bo Raxo
> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:9ohc24himmn94e6ai...@4ax.com...
>>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded gun
>>>>to
>>>>be
>>>>prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his hands on
>>>>a
>>>>loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony, and
>>>>lost
>>>>his right to possess a firearm.
>>>
>>> And why wasn't he? Did George Bush and the NRA stop it from happening
>>> somehow?
>>
>>The NRA effectively blocks legislation in Congress. This is pretty
>>obvious - uh, it's their biggest draw for membership, the lobbying clout.
>
> Ooooh, so tell me what laws the NRA blocked in this case. I really
> want to know.
>
You're unaware the NRA has opposed laws requiring guns be stored unloaded
and/or locked up?
Then you're just pig ignorant.
>
>>> Tell us more of your paranoid fantasies.
>>
>>Are you just unaware of the NRA's lobbying, and promises to "protect your
>>gun rights", or are you just lying?
>
> What I'm aware of is you blaming the NRA for every bad thing that
> happens.
And now you're just full of shit. Do you think this kind of stupidity fools
anyone? Or are you dumb enough to not know the NRA opposes any safe gun
storage laws, or laws to punish people who let children get their hands on
loaded guns?
tiny dancer
"Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:v7OdneT19cV5m7TV...@comcast.com...
>
> "Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0gfg241evfl65c08p...@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:9ohc24himmn94e6ai...@4ax.com...
>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded gun
>>>>>to
>>>>>be
>>>>>prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his hands on
>>>>>a
>>>>>loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony, and
>>>>>lost
>>>>>his right to possess a firearm.
>>>>
>>>> And why wasn't he? Did George Bush and the NRA stop it from happening
>>>> somehow?
>>>
>>>The NRA effectively blocks legislation in Congress. This is pretty
>>>obvious - uh, it's their biggest draw for membership, the lobbying clout.
>>
>> Ooooh, so tell me what laws the NRA blocked in this case. I really
>> want to know.
>>
>
> You're unaware the NRA has opposed laws requiring guns be stored unloaded
> and/or locked up?
>
> Then you're just pig ignorant.
If I am home alone, at night, my gun is neither locked up nor unloaded.
That would render it useless.
Morton Davis
No. The first time the father should have blistered the kid's behind so that
he'd have to eat standing up and the kid's learned a valuable lesson about
personal responsibility and not done that again.
Buck Mulligan
>
>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:0gfg241evfl65c08p...@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:9ohc24himmn94e6ai...@4ax.com...
>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded gun
>>>>>to
>>>>>be
>>>>>prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his hands on
>>>>>a
>>>>>loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony, and
>>>>>lost
>>>>>his right to possess a firearm.
>>>>
>>>> And why wasn't he? Did George Bush and the NRA stop it from happening
>>>> somehow?
>>>
>>>The NRA effectively blocks legislation in Congress. This is pretty
>>>obvious - uh, it's their biggest draw for membership, the lobbying clout.
>>
>> Ooooh, so tell me what laws the NRA blocked in this case. I really
>> want to know.
>>
>
>You're unaware the NRA has opposed laws requiring guns be stored unloaded
>and/or locked up?
>
>Then you're just pig ignorant.
Stop dodging the question.
Tell me what laws the NRA blocked in this case. I really
want to know.
>>>> Tell us more of your paranoid fantasies.
>>>
>>>Are you just unaware of the NRA's lobbying, and promises to "protect your
>>>gun rights", or are you just lying?
>>
>> What I'm aware of is you blaming the NRA for every bad thing that
>> happens.
>
>And now you're just full of shit. Do you think this kind of stupidity fools
>anyone?
Absolutely not. I know your stupidity is just a front to try to
discredit the NRA. You obviously can't answer the question or
substantiate your claim, so you're just floundering about, like a
landed tuna on the dock.
While you're reeling, you can answer this question- how would a law
requiring guns to be locked up have helped this person?
Are you stupid enough to think that this father would have followed
the law?
Are you? Are you that stupid?
Buck Mulligan
Here's Indiana Law:
IC 35-47-10-7
Permitting child to possess a firearm
Sec. 7. A child's parent or legal guardian who knowingly,
intentionally, or recklessly permits the child to possess a firearm:
(1) while:
(A) aware of a substantial risk that the child will use
the firearm to commit a felony; and
(B) failing to make reasonable efforts to prevent the use
of a firearm by the child to commit a felony; or
(2) when the child has been convicted of a crime of violence
or has been adjudicated as a juvenile for an offense that would
constitute a crime of violence if the child were an adult;
commits dangerous control of a child, a Class C felony. However, the
offense is a Class B felony if the child's parent or legal guardian
has a prior conviction under this section.
Tell me which part isn't in effect because of the NRA. Take all the
time you need.
Jim Alder
@attbi_s21:
Physical violence!? Think what that would do to his self esteem!
Plus, I don't think he would have been thinking about "personal
responsibility" when he shot his sister in the face. THis kid has serious
problems that are probably going to get worse now. Not sure how you get past
something like this, even at the age of five.
Jim Alder
4ax.com:
> On , , Mon, 12 May 2008 16:59:01 -0500, Re: => Negligence by
> "trained agents" becomes a crime once they become unemployed!,
> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:paudnXU0Z9iHULrV...@comcast.com:
>>
>>>>> That's how gun control works.
>>>>
>>>> Gun control has never worked. It never will.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Take a look at the rest of the industrialized world: their gun laws,
>>> their gun deaths.
>>>
>>> It works. Proven.
>>>
>>
>>No, it isn't. For every place with strict gun laws and low deaths one
>>can find places with strict gun laws and high deaths. Same with lax gun
>>laws and high deaths or lax gun laws and low deaths. If you look at all
>>the nations in Europe you can find ones in each category.
>
> Take Switzerland.
> Explain that if you can.
Explain how such a 'gun culture' can be so non-violent and have so little
crime? Easy. It's not full of Americans.
RD (The Sandman)
news:0c4i24t8chkls5kh2...@4ax.com:
> On , , Mon, 12 May 2008 16:59:01 -0500, Re: => Negligence by
> "trained agents" becomes a crime once they become unemployed!,
> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:paudnXU0Z9iHULrV...@comcast.com:
>>
>>>>> That's how gun control works.
>>>>
>>>> Gun control has never worked. It never will.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Take a look at the rest of the industrialized world: their gun laws,
>>> their gun deaths.
>>>
>>> It works. Proven.
>>>
>>
>>No, it isn't. For every place with strict gun laws and low deaths one
>>can find places with strict gun laws and high deaths. Same with lax
gun
>>laws and high deaths or lax gun laws and low deaths. If you look at
all
>>the nations in Europe you can find ones in each category.
>
> Take Switzerland.
> Explain that if you can.
What's to explain? You do understand what I said above didn't you?
RD (The Sandman)
>
> "Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0gfg241evfl65c08p...@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:9ohc24himmn94e6ai...@4ax.com...
>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Bo Raxo" <crimene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The gun control crowd wants people who let a child access a loaded
>>>>>gun to
>>>>>be
>>>>>prosecuted. The first time this 5 year old managed to get his
>>>>>hands on a
>>>>>loaded gun, the gun owner should have been charged with a felony,
>>>>>and lost
>>>>>his right to possess a firearm.
>>>>
>>>> And why wasn't he? Did George Bush and the NRA stop it from
>>>> happening somehow?
>>>
>>>The NRA effectively blocks legislation in Congress. This is pretty
>>>obvious - uh, it's their biggest draw for membership, the lobbying
>>>clout.
>>
>> Ooooh, so tell me what laws the NRA blocked in this case. I really
>> want to know.
>>
>
> You're unaware the NRA has opposed laws requiring guns be stored
> unloaded and/or locked up?
I oppose that also. Makes the gun rather useless for self defense,
doesn't it. I don't see the problem with that opposition. You must feel
that DC is one place that really has it together. ;)
> Then you're just pig ignorant.
>
>>
>>>> Tell us more of your paranoid fantasies.
>>>
>>>Are you just unaware of the NRA's lobbying, and promises to "protect
>>>your gun rights", or are you just lying?
>>
>> What I'm aware of is you blaming the NRA for every bad thing that
>> happens.
>
> And now you're just full of shit. Do you think this kind of stupidity
> fools anyone? Or are you dumb enough to not know the NRA opposes any
> safe gun storage laws,
No, they don't. They oppose ones like the stupid one you mentioned
above.
or laws to punish people who let children get
> their hands on loaded guns?
Those laws already exist. They are called reckless endangerment or child
endangerment laws. They just don't specifically legislate firearms.
RM v2.0
>>>can find places with strict gun laws and high deaths. Same with lax gun
>>>laws and high deaths or lax gun laws and low deaths. If you look at all
>>>the nations in Europe you can find ones in each category.
>>
>> Take Switzerland.
>> Explain that if you can.
>
> Explain how such a 'gun culture' can be so non-violent and have so
> little
> crime? Easy. It's not full of Americans.
>
America you will also see the lowest crime rates. Whats common among DC,
Chicago, New York, LA, etc is high crime and heavy gun control. Now look at
places like Vermont, Montana, Arizona, etc have either little gun control or
even open carry and low crime rates.
Away from America in London, Australia, France, mexico, Canada, etc you
have strict gun control and High Crime rates. These are not coincidences.
RM v2.0
>> > The 5-year-old didn't commit a crime, but the father did (obviously the
>> >police agree, since they arrested him).
>>
If it was loaded and accessible to a child it would be a crime in Texas.
>> How would you know if you still had a round in the gun after you
>> took the magazine out of the Glock?
Are you seriously asking this? Do you know how semi-autos work?
Jim Alder
Sure. That's just logical if you have any sense. Armed citizens make lousy
targets for crime. Unarmed ones are prime fodder. But you must admit that the
US has a higher crime rate than, say, Switzerland, where guns are at least as
familiar. Shooting sports are family events and social functions. Automatic
weapons are familiar. What's the difference?
It's not the gun culture, it's the culture in general. Let's face it,
Americans as a whole are an undisciplined lot. Irresponsible and, face facts,
not all that smart.
SaPeIsMa
Most of the crime is generated by a small subset of society. Namely young
males of black or hispanic decent living in inner cities
They generate an INORDINATE amount of the crime and violence in the US.
To the point that were you to exclude them from the overal crime data, the
US would have crime rates lower than Canada, across the breath of the
criminal activity list
The GREAT MAJORITY of Americans are actually more law-abiding than the
residents of such countries as CAnada and the UK
> It's not the gun culture, it's the culture in general. Let's face it,
> Americans as a whole are an undisciplined lot. Irresponsible and, face
> facts,
> not all that smart.
>
It's the culture of a small subset of society that is the root cause of an
INORDINATE amount of crime
To project their behavior on the general population of the US is
statistically dishonest
Jim Alder
> "Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote...
> males of black or hispanic descent living in inner cities
The gang mentality they encounter in that inner city is part of the
'culture' I'm talking about. There are reasons it's here but not in Geneva or
St. Moritz.
> They generate an INORDINATE amount of the crime and violence in the US.
> To the point that were you to exclude them from the overal crime data, the
> US would have crime rates lower than Canada, across the breadth of the
> criminal activity list.
> The GREAT MAJORITY of Americans are actually more law-abiding than the
> residents of such countries as Canada and the UK
>
>
>> It's not the gun culture, it's the culture in general. Let's face it,
>> Americans as a whole are an undisciplined lot. Irresponsible and, face
>> facts, not all that smart.
>
> It's the culture of a small subset of society that is the root cause of an
> INORDINATE amount of crime.
> To project their behavior on the general population of the US is
> statistically dishonest.
I didn't say they were criminals, I said they were an undisciplined lot.
Maybe its because the country itself was born out of rebellion and not all
that long ago. Maybe its because they keep hearing how 'less fortunate' they
are, meaning they are just as "entitled" to what the "more fortunate" have.
SOME of those react to that mindset by stealing.
Herb Martin
"RM v2.0" <Bl...@spam.sucks> wrote in message
news:AvmWj.190539$qg2....@fe08.news.easynews.com...
> >
>>> > The 5-year-old didn't commit a crime, but the father did (obviously
>>> > the
>>> >police agree, since they arrested him).
>>>
>
> If it was loaded and accessible to a child it would be a crime in Texas.
As I understand the law, ONLY if it causes an actual problem.
(I am not a laywer, your milage may vary, etc.)
In some states you can be arrested JUST for it being accessibly I
believe -- sitting on the bedside table etc.
>>> How would you know if you still had a round in the gun after you
>>> took the magazine out of the Glock?
> Are you seriously asking this? Do you know how semi-autos work?
Well, let's tell him anyway: When unloading a Semi, you must ALWAYS
removed the Magazine (first), then operated the slide to a) remove the
round that is (usually) in the chamber AND b) to VISUALLY observe
(or tactically determine) that no round is still present.
If in doubt -- do it a second time. THEN aim the firearm in an absolutely
safe direction (hard to for most people to figure out however, e.g., like
the END of a long row/shelf of books), check it AGAIN, and pull the
trigger. It is now as unloaded as it can ever be (guns are always loaded).
And must still be pointed only in a safe direction.
Also, on a Glock, the extractor servers as an exeternal indicated, both
visual and palpable, of a round in the chamber -- but if you have to
depend on this you probably should CHECK the CHAMBER
yourself.
_ Prof. Jonez _
> "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote in news:68lvlgF2rqj7pU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> Buck Mulligan wrote:
>>> In talk.politics.guns "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>>>
>>>> May 9, 2008, 1:55 PM PDT
>>>>
>>>> Indianapolis -- A man whose 5-year-old son accidentally shot and
>>>> killed his sister was arrested at the cemetery before the little
>>>> girl's burial.
>>>
>>
>> Too bad it wasn't your kids ... asswipe.
>>
>>
>>
>
> What a lovely and compassionate humna
Stammer much, eh asswipe ?
Peter Dworkin
>On , , 13 May 2008 15:41:46 GMT, Re: => Boy, 5, Shoots, Kills
>Little Sister After Fight <= American Gun MADNESS!!,
>xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>
>>h...@finnegans.wake.jj wrote:
>>> On , , 10 May 2008 18:32:01 GMT, Re: => Boy, 5, Shoots, Kills
>>> Little Sister After Fight <= American Gun MADNESS!!,
>>> xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>>>
>>> >"tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> "XXX" <xxxxx...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> >> news:20080510115533.481$I...@newsreader.com...
>>> >> > Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> In talk.politics.guns "tiny dancer"
>>> >> >> <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >"Buck Mulligan" <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> >> >> >news:c6db24hips4bq1md8...@4ax.com...
>>> >> >> >> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>>Buck Mulligan <bkmul...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>> In talk.politics.guns xxxxx...@hotmail.com (XXX) wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> >Bama Brian <eddy...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>> >> XXX wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>> >> > "_ Prof. Jonez _" <the...@jonez.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Boy, 5, Shoots Little Sister After Fight
>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>
<snip>
>
>Fair enough, not legal intent. The child did form moral intent to
>kill his sister. The law doesn't accept that he "legally" formed
>intent.
>Have you ever heard the slogan "The law is an ass"?
The quotation, which is from Dickens, is: "The law is a ass."
tiny dancer
"H.C.E" <h...@finnegans.wak> wrote in message
news:uibn245joms3cqtmd...@4ax.com...
> On , , Tue, 13 May 2008 20:04:49 GMT, Re: => Boy, 5, Shoots,
> Kills Little Sister After Fight <= American Gun MADNESS!!, "RM
> v2.0" <Bl...@spam.sucks> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> > The 5-year-old didn't commit a crime, but the father did (obviously
>>>> > the
>>>> >police agree, since they arrested him).
>>>>
>>
>>If it was loaded and accessible to a child it would be a crime in Texas.
>
>
>>>> How would you know if you still had a round in the gun after you
>>>> took the magazine out of the Glock?
>>
>>Are you seriously asking this?
>
> and show I don't know something and I want to learn.
>
>>Do you know how semi-autos work?
>
> I live in a culture where access to guns is restricted and access
> to hand guns is even more restricted.
> I don't know anyone who has a handgun and I don't know anyone who
> has been shot.
That's why I prefer my revolver over a semi-automatic. I like being able to
open it, check if there are bullets in it, and close it again. I don't
worry much about my gun jamming either. I like the simple, straight forward
way a revolver works. Mine has a laser sight on it, very easy to aim and
fire accurately. Not too heavy, little kick, handles easily. It's a Smith
and Wesson .357.
td
Herb Martin
"tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UgOWj.14498$C8....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> "H.C.E" <h...@finnegans.wak> wrote in message
> news:uibn245joms3cqtmd...@4ax.com...
>> On , , Tue, 13 May 2008 20:04:49 GMT, Re: => Boy, 5, Shoots,
>> Kills Little Sister After Fight <= American Gun MADNESS!!, "RM
>> v2.0" <Bl...@spam.sucks> wrote:
>>
>>>Are you seriously asking this?
>>
>> Yes. I had no idea so I asked. I'm not afraid to ask a question
>> and show I don't know something and I want to learn.
>>
>>>Do you know how semi-autos work?
>>
>> Obviously not.
>> I live in a culture where access to guns is restricted and access
>> to hand guns is even more restricted.
>> I don't know anyone who has a handgun and I don't know anyone who
>> has been shot.
FIRST: Remove the magainze
THEN: Operate the slide to remove the bullet in the chamber
THEN: Visually check the chamber to ensure no round is present,
and in fact look for daylight all the way through the mag well.
Recheck with the last step anytime you are not completely sure of the
status of the firearm.
> That's why I prefer my revolver over a semi-automatic. I like being able
> to
> open it, check if there are bullets in it, and close it again. I don't
A Semi is certainly NO HARDER to check than a Revolver.