[media] (Missing UK) Schoolgirl flew to France with marine
Sarah
Messalina
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3063639.stm
I'm usully the last one to blame a 12 year old child in a situation
like this, but this girl sounds like an uncommonly sneaky and
self-possessed little shit.
That said, ew.
Mez
Jagdeep Cruellruby
"Messalina" <sec...@duelingoak.com> wrote in message
news:7111e10e.0307...@posting.google.com...
I agree with you on this one.
(But do you find it funny that this 12 year old sat at the computer
for hours in the family kitchen (put there for monitoring purposes
one might assume), hatching these plans under their noses and, even
when she asked her mother for her passport, ole mum, genuinely
clueless, handed it over (a "bus pass"?!)? Mum didn't know daughter
at the computer "was talking to anyone in particular". This cracks
me up! lol!
JC
Glek
news:3f13ccce$0$31924$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au:
I've read that kids who are talking to friends on the computer will type POS
(Parent Over Shoulder) to indicate that a parent is nearby and they should
change the topic or get off, but she certainly did not do that if she wanted
to maintain the fiction she was 19. (though maybe she, posing as the 19 year-
old, explained to him she had very strict parents who kept her on a short
leash and she wished he would take her away from that.)
Her parents must have thought by keeping the computer in the kitchen they had
done everything they needed to do. Didn't they ever peer over her shoulder?
No, the computer was in the kitchen, that's what the experts say they need to
do to keep a kid from straying on the 'Net. They could have had a son looking
up how to build pipebombs under their noses and they would not have been the
wiser.
And what was in this Marine's mind when he finally met her? Was he so
desperate for female companionship that he agreed to take her with him
knowing it would get him into a shitload of trouble? Why didn't he notify the
authorities or find out her phone number and call her parents? He is as
foolish as the girl's parents.
Holier Than Thou
news:Xns93B95B9BF...@207.217.77.26:
I wonder if he thinks she is 19 now.
--
BethF, Anchorage, AK
Messalina
> And what was in this Marine's mind when he finally met her? Was he so
> desperate for female companionship that he agreed to take her with him
> knowing it would get him into a shitload of trouble? Why didn't he notify the
> authorities or find out her phone number and call her parents? He is as
> foolish as the girl's parents.
When I first read this story I looked at the picture of the girl
first. No makeup, no nuthin' and I was still shocked as hell when I
read the article and saw that she was 12. And I'm a female myself!
I usually cry bullshit when guys claim they didn't know a girl was
underaged, but in this case I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of
doubt.
Mez
SageJelly
>first. No makeup, no nuthin' and I was still shocked as hell when I
>read the article and saw that she was 12. And I'm a female myself!
>
>I usually cry bullshit when guys claim they didn't know a girl was
>underaged, but in this case I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of
>doubt.
>
>Mez
>
>
>
I've known a few girls in the 12 - 13 range that could pass for 18 or 19, but
that was by physical appearance only. She must be a precocious young girl,
because I would think the style and content of a 12 year old's conversation
would give away her age.
Or maybe he's just a dumbass. (shrug)
Glek
news:7111e10e.03071...@posting.google.com:
Granted, it is possible that Studabaker may have honestly thought she was 19.
Some girls do look mature at that age. She looks mature in this portrait,
though I would like to know how tall she is and did she have the acting
skills to pass as a 19 year old.
I guess until we know more about the situation it would be fair to give the
Marine the benefit of the doubt. (next time I'll do my best to check for
pictures before I mouth off on a topic. But no promises.)
Rob Webber
I agree...
I read that the marine alluded in a call with his family that the girl
had "other reasons" for wanting out of the house...BUT, my question is
why the hell has he not taken this girl to the nearest police station
and turned his and her asses in...if it is all just an honest mistake
about her age?????
Jagdeep Cruellruby
"SageJelly" <sage...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030715134504...@mb-m21.aol.com...
He'd been corresponding with her for ages. If he didn't guess how
young she was by her chat, it wouldn't be surprising if he still
didn't know her true age IMO. I guess that's another way of saying,
yep, dumbass. :-)
JC
Messalina
The picture I saw wasn't a portrait, she was scruffy, windblown hair
and no makeup.
She's 5 foot 3, he's 5 foot 9.
She was obviously well spoken enough to fool him online, since he
hauled his cookies all the way to England. Perhaps the culture
differences fooled him, or perhaps having invested a lot of
time/money/hope into the relationship he allowed himself to be fooled.
Mez
Glek
By portrait, I meant it was a picture of her face, not her entire body.
Jagdeep Cruellruby
"Rob Webber" <run2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:97b1fb3f.03071...@posting.google.com...
I don't think he discovered her true age until they saw tv reports
in France. And then he got in touch with U.S. authorities didn't he?
And he says he "never touched her". Hope he's telling the truth.
Anyway, as for monitoring your kid's use of *chatrooms* - pretty
much impossible, unless you're there by his/her side the entire
time. Otherwise, forget it. It all happens too fast, and the
occasional peek over the shoulder tells a parents nothing about the
context of any conversation. What needs to happen first is that
parents themselves become knowledgeable about the entire internet.
And then they need to learn what needs to be done in order to
protect his/her child (and protect other users from your child if
need be). Sometimes I think the folks who write the articles about
who children meet on the www know nothing about it themselves.
"Monitoring" indeed. I think each computer should have a "master"
file accessable only by eg the parents/owners (if needed), where
every user is subject to minute scrutiny after-the-fact, where every
chat and every email is stored, and that all users who are subjected
to such scrutiny are warned in advance that "all is avail to the
parent" so to speak. If those children want to send private
letters - let them - via snail mail.
I hate the thought of too much regulation of internet providers and
users. The regulation, IMO, ought to be in the family home (or
school etc). As long as some parents refuse to do it themselves, the
more risk of govt intervention.
JC
JC
Messalina
> > I usually cry bullshit when guys claim they didn't know a girl was
> > underaged, but in this case I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of
> > doubt.
> >
> > Mez
>
> Granted, it is possible that Studabaker may have honestly thought she was 19.
> Some girls do look mature at that age. She looks mature in this portrait,
> though I would like to know how tall she is and did she have the acting
> skills to pass as a 19 year old.
> I guess until we know more about the situation it would be fair to give the
> Marine the benefit of the doubt. (next time I'll do my best to check for
> pictures before I mouth off on a topic. But no promises.)
Here's a link to a late breaking article and photo. Poor kid. Thats all I can say.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/07/15/uk.girl.marine/index.html
IBegg2Differ
>He'd been corresponding with her for ages. If he didn't guess how
>young she was by her chat, it wouldn't be surprising if he still
>didn't know her true age IMO. I guess that's another way of saying,
>yep, dumbass. :-)
>
>JC
I dunno. I think at twelve my daughter could have passed for nineteen, both in
her speaking/chatting and in person. It's entirely possible this guy thought
he was dealing with a nineteen-year-old, even if he didn't necessarily think
she was the smartest nineteen-year-old in the world.
Jagdeep Cruellruby
"IBegg2Differ" <ibegg2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030715203843...@mb-m15.aol.com...
She may well have been a mature-looking/acting 12 y.o. now that you
mention it. I know a little girl at the moment who, if one didn't
know better, would guess her to be MUCH older. It's not just her
physical development either - there's a poise about her that's
astonishing. Oh who knows.
JC
Michael Snyder
Jagdeep Cruellruby wrote in message <3f150e7d$0$31925$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>...
Also there do seem to be parents who for whatever reason
like to dress their little girls like Madonna, make-up and all...
Messalina
>
> I don't think he discovered her true age until they saw tv reports
> in France. And then he got in touch with U.S. authorities didn't he?
> And he says he "never touched her". Hope he's telling the truth.
>
> Anyway, as for monitoring your kid's use of *chatrooms* - pretty
> much impossible, unless you're there by his/her side the entire
> time. Otherwise, forget it. It all happens too fast, and the
> occasional peek over the shoulder tells a parents nothing about the
> context of any conversation. What needs to happen first is that
> parents themselves become knowledgeable about the entire internet.
> And then they need to learn what needs to be done in order to
> protect his/her child (and protect other users from your child if
> need be). Sometimes I think the folks who write the articles about
> who children meet on the www know nothing about it themselves.
> "Monitoring" indeed. I think each computer should have a "master"
> file accessable only by eg the parents/owners (if needed), where
> every user is subject to minute scrutiny after-the-fact, where every
> chat and every email is stored, and that all users who are subjected
> to such scrutiny are warned in advance that "all is avail to the
> parent" so to speak. If those children want to send private
> letters - let them - via snail mail.
>
> I hate the thought of too much regulation of internet providers and
> users. The regulation, IMO, ought to be in the family home (or
> school etc). As long as some parents refuse to do it themselves, the
> more risk of govt intervention.
>
transpires on a computer so that a parent can review whats going on?
I'm almost sure this is so.
Mez
Messalina
Whoa, I might have to change my mind on this one if said that. It
sounds like just the sort of thing a pedo would say to justify his
actions.
Mez
Holier Than Thou
news:w%eRa.2270$dk4.1...@typhoon.sonic.net:
> Also there do seem to be parents who for whatever reason
> like to dress their little girls like Madonna, make-up and all...
I hate looking at six year olds in sexy clothes fit for teenagers and young
adults. Makes me sick. But I think teenaged and young adult mothers often
think that its cool to dress your child in clothes that are cool for you.
--
BethF, Anchorage, AK
IBegg2Differ
>Also there do seem to be parents who for whatever reason
>like to dress their little girls like Madonna, make-up and all...
>
Yep. That always grosses me out. My daughter had a friend in the neighborhood
that she played with all the time when they were both little; her parents
always had her running around in all sorts of glitter and sparkle and halter
tops and high heels from the time we met her, when she was only about 7 years
old. She was a good kid, and really she still is, but now that she and my
daughter are both teens, I have to be *very* careful about the time I allow
them to spend together. This girl has been raised, however inadvertently, to
believe that being "sexy" is her ticket to acceptance by others. Thus, if she
wants to come over to our house, that's okay, but she is *not* taking my
daughter to the pool hall with her. Nor does my daughter want to go with her,
anyway.
stargazer
"Holier Than Thou" <be...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93BA6B345BB0be...@216.168.3.44...
My girls tease me now about dressing them certain ways when they were
little. :) My youngest hated to wear dresses, so I'd have to bribe her so
I could get her picture professionally taken. Just yesterday she was
telling me about a picture of her in a yellow dress with English smocking
and a matching sunbonnet. I think she must've been around 4 yrs. old at the
time. And then I went through a 'preppy' stage where I had her in jeans
with little wool sportscoats to match. But I always enjoyed dressing them
in age appropriate clothes. I too don't like seeing little girls in tube
tops and mini skirts. They grow up so fast the way it is.
sg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> BethF, Anchorage, AK
Holier Than Thou
news:vXgRa.11304$oa4....@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com:
I still grumble to my mother about the ruffled bottom underpants my mom
made me wear when I was two.;
--
BethF, Anchorage, AK
Maxey T Duke
"Holier Than Thou" <be...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message
Aw, Those are cute, especially with chubby baby legs, how about the patent
leather shoes? or the tights? or hair up in the Pebbles Flintstone ponytail?
I think those are standard baby-girl couture.
stargazer
"Maxey T Duke" <m...@eloo.net> wrote in message
news:sJhRa.2317$KZ.9...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Been there/done that. ;) And don't forget the little English sandals with
knee highs. I also used to 'do her up' in a little sailor dress with navy
knee highs and those burgundy colored English sandals. She had pairs in all
three colors, white, burgundy, and navy. It cost me too, lots of lunches at
Chuckie Cheese and little Hot Wheels cars in 'bribe money' to my little
Tom-boy child. <g>
sg
>
>
Maxey T Duke
"stargazer" <star...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DPhRa.7918$r35....@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
stargazer
Ah yes, that she did. She's intelligent, beautiful and loves sports. She
was the only girl in our Little League, played first base on her team. My
husband and I loved sitting in the stands and waiting for the visiting team
parents to realize "that's a girl they got playin first base". <g> Usually
somewhere around the second/third inning one of the visiting dads would
exclaim "that's a girl they got on first" and then another would say
"nah, that's not a girl" and the first would respond "yeah, I think that's
a girl". I'd give 'em a little while to speculate, and then proudly turn
around and say "Yup, that's my daughter." :-) She held the record on her
team for bases stolen each season.
sg
>
>
Maxey T Duke
girls got hurt.
A year or two later the league came up with the Pony-Tail division. How
insulting.
Now the boys and girls play on the same teams like your daughter did. I'm
jealous!
mtd
stargazer
Yeah, my husband told her she 'had to play softball', but I told her she
should go try out for Little League if she wanted, not to listen to daddy.
Of course he was proud when she was picked for a team. :) She's tough
too, she did get hit by a pitch a couple times, but would never allow the
coach to put in a pinch runner for her. One of our proudest moments was
when she batted in the winning run in a play-off game, bottom of the ninth
and two outs. At the end of the season the coach gave her 'home plate' as a
souviner. <g> She played on the League for three years, but she was the
only girl all three years. Must've been right around the time the rules
were changing.
sg
sg
>
>
FeAudrey
star...@hotmail.com says...
>
>
>(tom-boy daughter) ... Little League ... held the record on her team for
> bases stolen each season.
>
Hah! Back in true-crime territory!!
--
Visit my Iron Age Pages for technical and fun stuff (holiday specials, too)!
http://pages.prodigy.net/feaudrey
Jagdeep Cruellruby
A program that saves all chat conversations and others' emails? Some
IM programs can save some conversations, at the chat user's
discretion, but other than that I don't know of any comprehensive
programs like you're talking about. I'd like to though. ???
JC
d~
<jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>A program that saves all chat conversations and others' emails? Some
>IM programs can save some conversations, at the chat user's
>discretion, but other than that I don't know of any comprehensive
>programs like you're talking about. I'd like to though. ???
there are stealth programs that record all key strokes...
d~
d~
<jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>A program that saves all chat conversations and others' emails? Some
>IM programs can save some conversations, at the chat user's
>discretion, but other than that I don't know of any comprehensive
>programs like you're talking about. I'd like to though. ???
there are stealth programs that record all key strokes...
d~
Jagdeep Cruellruby
"d~" <djominsa...@sayno2spam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f1af866...@netnews.comcast.net...
But what does that *mean* d~? Do you have to be a techie to use it?
JC
Sarah
> "Jagdeep Cruellruby" <jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:3f13ccce$0$31924$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au:
>
> >
> > news:7111e10e.0307...@posting.google.com...
> >> solit...@juno.com (Sarah) wrote in message
> news:<d7f82a0.03071...@posting.google.com>...
> >> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3063639.stm
> >>
> >> I'm usully the last one to blame a 12 year old child in a
> situation
> >> like this, but this girl sounds like an uncommonly sneaky and
> >> self-possessed little shit.
> >>
> >> That said, ew.
> >>
> >> Mez
> >
> > I agree with you on this one.
> >
> > (But do you find it funny that this 12 year old sat at the computer
> > for hours in the family kitchen (put there for monitoring purposes
> > one might assume), hatching these plans under their noses and, even
> > when she asked her mother for her passport, ole mum, genuinely
> > clueless, handed it over (a "bus pass"?!)? Mum didn't know daughter
> > at the computer "was talking to anyone in particular". This cracks
> > me up! lol!
> >
> > JC
Lots of parents apparently feel that they don't have to _look_ at the
computer in order to "automagically" _know_ what their kid is doing,
as long as the kid is sitting within physical reach. Real bright.
> I've read that kids who are talking to friends on the computer will type POS
> (Parent Over Shoulder) to indicate that a parent is nearby and they should
> change the topic or get off, but she certainly did not do that if she wanted
> to maintain the fiction she was 19. (though maybe she, posing as the 19 year-
> old, explained to him she had very strict parents who kept her on a short
> leash and she wished he would take her away from that.)
> Her parents must have thought by keeping the computer in the kitchen they had
> done everything they needed to do. Didn't they ever peer over her shoulder?
> No, the computer was in the kitchen, that's what the experts say they need to
> do to keep a kid from straying on the 'Net. They could have had a son looking
> up how to build pipebombs under their noses and they would not have been the
> wiser.
That's where monitoring/logging programs come in: they block the kid
from particular sites, and keep logs of chat room
activity/conversations. Anything the kid does online can be read by
the parent.
And, _NO_, the kid's "right to privacy" does not exist. They can have
a "right to privacy" for their little diary book they keep under their
mattress.
> And what was in this Marine's mind when he finally met her? Was he so
> desperate for female companionship that he agreed to take her with him
> knowing it would get him into a shitload of trouble? Why didn't he notify the
> authorities or find out her phone number and call her parents? He is as
> foolish as the girl's parents.
She may have put on makeup. There are a couple of kids that come in to
where I work and they do _NOT_ look like 12-yr-olds. It's not the best
neighborhood, we've got black & Latino gangs, and alot of gang
incidents (four shot last summer -- no _serious_ incidents so far this
year, but it hasn't gotten _really_ hot yet). A fair number of the
residents of the surrounging apartment complex are on Alexandria city
housing assistance. The parents just don't give a shit. The _little_
kids come out to buy a soda at 12:30 at night on the weekends. The big
kids hang out with their "homies" at the basketball court across the
street, sit on the busstop near it, or hang out at the 7-11 around the
corner.
You put makeup and more grownup clothing on some of these "children",
and they'd fool God.
d~
<jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"d~" <djominsa...@sayno2spam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3f1af866...@netnews.comcast.net...
>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:01:28 +1000, "Jagdeep Cruellruby"
>> <jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >A program that saves all chat conversations and others' emails?
>Some
>> >IM programs can save some conversations, at the chat user's
>> >discretion, but other than that I don't know of any comprehensive
>> >programs like you're talking about. I'd like to though. ???
>>
>> there are stealth programs that record all key strokes...
>>
>> d~
>
>But what does that *mean* d~? Do you have to be a techie to use it?
>JC
It means that you can install this program on your computer and set it
to "record" - then you can come back later and say "what was typed
here?" and it will tell you.
Kind of like looking at a typewriter ribbon after it's been used.
You don't have to be a techie to use it - but like all things binary,
it helps.
d~
Jagdeep Cruellruby
Thank you. Not sure this is exactly the thing for me. :-) What is
this kind of thing used for, btw? Kind of creepy when you think
about it.
JC
d~
<jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"d~" <djominsa...@sayno2spam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3f1db655...@netnews.comcast.net...
>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:21:45 +1000, "Jagdeep Cruellruby"
>> <jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> It means that you can install this program on your computer and
>set it
>> to "record" - then you can come back later and say "what was typed
>> here?" and it will tell you.
>>
>> Kind of like looking at a typewriter ribbon after it's been used.
>>
>> You don't have to be a techie to use it - but like all things
>binary,
>> it helps.
>>
>> d~
>
>Thank you.
np
>Not sure this is exactly the thing for me. :-) What is
>this kind of thing used for, btw? Kind of creepy when you think
>about it.
>
>JC
all sorts of "big brother" stuff. I've heard of companies loading it
on their computers to watch employees, I know of at least 1 department
at an institute of higher learning that I worked at that was seriously
considering it as a way of monitoring computer use in one of their
computer labs.
folks with black hats tend to use these types of programs to try and
catch passwords and such.
{shrug}
I never saw much use for it - to much effort.
If you want to *really* freak out, I read about surveillance
techniques that included an ability to decipher keyboard strokes on a
computer in a house from a van on the street. weird shit.
d~
Magic Foot
>
> "Holier Than Thou" <be...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93BA6EED9CF6Abe...@216.168.3.44...
> > I still grumble to my mother about the ruffled bottom underpants my mom
> > made me wear when I was two.;
> >
> >
> > --
> > BethF, Anchorage, AK
>
> Aw, Those are cute, especially with chubby baby legs, how about the patent
> leather shoes? or the tights? or hair up in the Pebbles Flintstone ponytail?
> I think those are standard baby-girl couture.
My cousin was scarred for life by her mother always dressing her like that.
It was enough for the rest of us to tease and scorn her mercilessly (for
which I abjectly apologize to this day)
--
Saffire
201/191/125
Atkins since 6/14/03
Jagdeep Cruellruby
I thought all companies had free access to all that stuff anyway,
all employee emails and everything else? Whoever uses this stealth
stuff, sure is creepy. And getting it remotely, from a van in the
street?? I don't even wanna know more. (Well, I sorta do.)
JC
Elsie Jay
>all sorts of "big brother" stuff. I've heard of companies loading it
>on their computers to watch employees, I know of at least 1 department
>at an institute of higher learning that I worked at that was seriously
>considering it as a way of monitoring computer use in one of their
>computer labs.
>
Eons ago, when such stealth programs were in their infancy,
the company I worked for could monitor how many times a day
we programmers hit the enter key. They did it as an attempt
to monitor productivity since it is really hard to measure
with a person who is paid to think (always staring off into
space, etc). When we found out about it, we would just lean
on the enter key no matter what we were doing. They caught
on really quickly that we had caught on.
Elsie
d~
<jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I thought all companies had free access to all that stuff anyway,
>all employee emails and everything else?
Sure, e-mails that go through their server, if they have the stuff in
place, they can track your internet activity.
>Whoever uses this stealth
>stuff, sure is creepy. And getting it remotely, from a van in the
>street?? I don't even wanna know more. (Well, I sorta do.)
:-)
I *think* this is the book I read about this stuff in - but it's been
a while since I read it, so I'm not sure:
Personal Author Schwartau, Winn.
Title Cybershock : surviving hackers, phreakers, identity thieves,
Internet terrorists and weapons of mass disruption / by Winn
Schwartau.
d~
Alan Hope
>I still grumble to my mother about the ruffled bottom underpants my mom
>made me wear when I was two.;
Whereas some of us are wishing she would bring them back now. Right
now, in fact.
--
AH