Dark Portrait of 'Painter of Light' - LA Times exposes Thomas Kincade
666
March 5, 2006
Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
and seamy personal conduct. He disputes the allegations.
By Kim Christensen, Times Staff Writer
Thomas Kinkade is famous for his luminous landscapes and street scenes,
those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
"God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
America's most collected artists.
A devout Christian who calls himself the "Painter of Light," Kinkade
trades heavily on his beliefs and says God has guided his brush - and
his life - for the last 20 years. "When I got saved, God became my
art agent," he said in a 2004 video biography, genteel in tone and rich
in the themes of faith and family values that have helped win him
legions of fans...
In litigation and interviews with the Los Angeles Times, former gallery
owners depict Kinkade, 48, as a ruthless businessman who drove them to
financial ruin at the same time he was fattening his business
associates' bank accounts and feathering his nest with tens of millions
of dollars. Last month, a three-member panel of the American
Arbitration Assn. ordered his company to pay $860,000 for defrauding
the former owners of two failed Virginia galleries. That decision marks
the first major legal setback for Kinkade, who won three previous
arbitration claims. Five more are pending.
It's not just Kinkade's business practices that have been called into
question. In sworn testimony and interviews, former gallery owners,
ex-employees and others say his personal behavior also belies the
wholesome image on which he's built his empire...
Dandois, who left the company to become chief executive of a group of
galleries owned by Kinkade's brother, Patrick, recounted that about six
years ago the artist was so intoxicated during a performance by
Siegfried & Roy in Las Vegas that people seated nearby moved away from
him. "I think it was Roy or Siegfried or whatever had a codpiece in his
leotards," Dandois testified. "And so when the show started, Thom just
started yelling, 'Codpiece, codpiece,' and had to be quieted by his
mother and Nanette."
At other times, Kinkade could be downright nasty, Dandois testified,
recalling an incident in which Dandois' wife tried to help the
allegedly inebriated artist to his feet in a bar. "He had been falling
down, and he fell off the stool, and he was laying on the ground and
just looked up at her and flipped her the bird and told her, you know,
just to 'F you' several times," Dandois testified.
And then there is Kinkade's proclivity for "ritual territory marking,"
as he called it. In an interview, Sheppard, a former vice president for
Kinkade's company who often accompanied Kinkade on the road, recounted
a trip to Orange County in the late 1990s for the artist's appearance
on the "Hour of Power" television show at the Crystal Cathedral in
Garden Grove. On the eve of the broadcast, Sheppard said, he and
Kinkade returned to the Disneyland Hotel after a night of heavy
drinking. As they walked to their rooms, according to Sheppard and
another person who was there, Kinkade veered toward a nearby figure of
a Disney character. "Thom wanders over to Winnie the Pooh and decides
to 'mark his territory,' " Sheppard told The Times... When pressed
about allegedly relieving himself in a hotel elevator in Las Vegas,
Kinkade said it might have happened...
At a signing party in Indiana in August 2002, Kinkade polled the men in
the room about their preferences in women's anatomies. "He was having a
conversation with the men in the room about whether they like breasts
or butts," said Lori Kopec, Cote's director of gallery operations, who
also testified about the party. "There were only two women in the room,
and I was very uncomfortable at that point." It was during that bawdy
discussion, according to arbitration records, that Kinkade turned his
attention to the other woman. "He approached [her] and he palmed her
breasts and he said, 'These are great tits!' " Ernie Dodson, another
Cote employee, told The Times, adding that he drank no alcohol that
night. "I was just standing in the corner in amazement. It was like,
holy cow!" The woman whom Kinkade allegedly fondled confirmed to The
Times that he touched her breasts without her consent... Cote and Kopec
said they also saw the alleged groping. "She let out a yelp and backed
away," Kopec said. "That's when I knew he had actually touched her."...
666
Kris Baker
"666" <son...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Los Angeles Times
> March 5, 2006
>
> Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
> Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
> and seamy personal conduct. He disputes the allegations.
> By Kim Christensen, Times Staff Writer
Entire story here. GREAT reading.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-kinkade5mar05,0,3770067.story?coll=la-home-headlines
Hey, he has other people print and paint over crap, line them up
in a row, and he walks down and "signs" them.....then the
unwashed and uneducated masses lap the stuff up.
He's truly a reflection of current morals. But hey! Notice they
don't claim he's GAY. So he's a Fine Christian.
.....one retailer's ad describes as "something not merely
to be acquired, but collected - like fine art itself."
<snerk>
Kris
Gillian White
news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thomas Kinkade is famous for his luminous landscapes and street scenes,
> those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
> "God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
> America's most collected artists.
This is the stuff that looks like it should be on the cover of an old
fashioned cake tin, isn't it?
It's fucking awful.
Gillian
Kris Baker
"Gillian White" <Gillia...@nospampleasethanksmail.com> wrote in message
news:T9FOf.106078$B94.11539@pd7tw3no...
But there's justice in the world. Better artists have found ways
to improve Kincade's fakery:
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1918
(Put down your coffee, first.)
One of my favorites:
http://images.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/01-16-04-kinkade/geno1173.jpg
Kris
pattymaci
Gillian White wrote:
>
> This is the stuff that looks like it should be on the cover of an old
> fashioned cake tin, isn't it?
>
> It's fucking awful.
>
> Gillian
I hate the paintings but at the same time want to live in one of the
cottages.
Pattymac
Kate
Artists hate the man. He's such a shyster. If you buy one of 'his'
paintings at one of his galleries, there's no way you will ever sell
it for that much even though the man is really popular.
Alan Hope
>It's fucking awful.
It certainly is. But he pisses on statues, falls off barstools, shouts
at Siegfried and Roy and grabs women's breasts, so he obviously has
artist DNA in him somewhere.
--
AH
Too orangey for crows
Kris Baker
"Kate " <cob...@newscene.com> wrote in message
news:44142535...@news-west.newscene.com...
I think he *was* popular; the only ones who still love him, have to
be delusional. They've spent hundreds of thousands on fake "art"
(not even originals)...that MIGHT be eBay-level collectibles in 50
years, if they don't burn them first ;)
The galleries here, closed several years ago.
Kris
mc
IKWYM. It's funny, I gave my sister a cute little ornament for
Christmas and said "please don't take offense that it's TK..."
mc
Enkidu
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
I've seen paintings of Elvis on black velvet for sale in TJ that showed
more artistic merit than his crap.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
We Americans have no commission from God to police the world.
--Benjamin Harrison
John Baker
And in addition to all that, his paintings are utter crap.
E Varden
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote .
.
.
> Hey, he has other people print and paint over crap, line them up
> in a row, and he walks down and "signs" them.....then the
> unwashed and uneducated masses lap the stuff up.
>
> He's truly a reflection of current morals. But hey! Notice they
> don't claim he's GAY. So he's a Fine Christian.
>
> .....one retailer's ad describes as "something not merely
> to be acquired, but collected - like fine art itself."
> <snerk>
- I enjoy his shit. True American kitsch!
Pe
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
mc
IKWYM. It's funny, I gave my sister a cute little ornament for
Christmas and said "please don't take offense that it's TC..."
mc
nimue
Hilarious! Thank you!!!!
>
>
> Kris
--
nimue
"Evil is not merely banal; it prides itself on sticking to the rules
and looks forward to its pension." Kyle Smith
"Violence always wants to erupt and only creativity can control it."
Sister Wendy
E Varden
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote in message
news:0vFOf.3545$%m4....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
E Varden
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote >
Thankew (and for the coffee-warning)!
I haven't had so much fun at a site in a long time.
===
Where did this drunken cheat and mysogynist Christian fuckwit originally get
his inspiration?
May I suggest the paintings of Maxfield Parrish (1870-1966); American.
Pe
E Varden
robbielynn
Now that's funny! And true . My brother is an artist and he's an
alcoholic, a womanizer, a cynic and put down artist but he can
paint. Who can 'splain it? - robbielynn
Kris Baker
"robbielynn" <robbiel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141592015.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
It's just part of Kinkade's pose; I see NO dna influence or relation
to a true artist.
"Maybe if I act like an asshole artist, people will believe I'm an artist?"
Kris
lj
The only "skill" he has mastered is MARKETING!!!!!!!!
Kris Baker
"lj" <lj...@south.net> wrote in message
news:ywMOf.1807$l7...@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Does anyone else remember how he got his start? In the Sunday
morning newspaper inserts! In the back of that USA Today Sunday
(whatever preceded it, that is). couldn't even show his crap in
color; bought b&w ads. He already was "painter of light".
Kris
>
>
DanaPointe
The buying public sees him as a modern day Norman Rockwell .. (problem
is he has after half the talent)
Cliff and Linda Griffith
news:44142535...@news-west.newscene.com...
> Artists hate the man. He's such a shyster. If you buy one of 'his'
> paintings at one of his galleries, there's no way you will ever sell
> it for that much even though the man is really popular.
I don't have a cite, but I read sometime back that gallery owners were
really angry with him, too. He told gallery owners what to charge for his
paintings (no discounts, no sales), and then he sold his work on QVC/HSN,
undercutting the gallery prices. After awhile (as I remember it), the
gallery owners either sued Kincade or refused to carry his "art," saying
that customers wouldn't buy his paintings from the galleries if they could
get them for less on QVC.
Linda
Kate
wrote:
>> Artists hate the man. He's such a shyster.
>
>The buying public sees him as a modern day Norman Rockwell .. (problem
>is he has after half the talent)
The buying public also liked the dude that made big eyed kids.
JAH
so that he is a "part" of the painting. Has anyone else heard this?
JAH
Net Crimes & Misdemeanors - Just $10
www.netcrimes.net/order.html
www.haltabuse.org
www.netcrimes.net/netcrimesblog.html
Alan Hope
>My hubby insists that Kinkade signs with some of his blood in the ink
>so that he is a "part" of the painting. Has anyone else heard this?
He's not using enough. I suggest a couple of pints at least.
Better yet: paint the canvas in blood (several coats) and sign in oil.
Robibnikoff
Ack! What dreck :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Brian E. Clark
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, 666 said...
> Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
> Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
> and seamy personal conduct.
It has always seemed to me that Kinkade filched lighting tricks
and techniques -- without comprehending the genius of their
application -- from the likes of Bellini, Tintoretto, various
impressionists (particularly Renoir), and above all Rembrandt.
For examples of "Kinkadism" which predate Kinkade, and which far
outshine his work (if you'll pardon the pun), see:
Rembrandt ->
http://www.wga.hu/art/r/rembran/painting/biblic2/descent.jpg
Monet ->
http://www.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~malek/Garden/Claude1.html
Winterhalter ->
http://www.artunframed.com/images/July/florindac.jpg
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Jesus reveals your future.
666 wrote:
> Los Angeles Times
> March 5, 2006
>
> Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
> Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
> and seamy personal conduct. He disputes the allegations.
> By Kim Christensen, Times Staff Writer
>
> Thomas Kinkade is famous for his luminous landscapes and street scenes,
> those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
> "God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
> America's most collected artists.
>
Kenny Clifton
-author of the Red Letter Stories
http://www.christianjedi.com/redletterstories.html
Cleopatra
What's wrong with that? He sounds like the typical christian to me...
Robibnikoff
>
> "Gillian White" <Gillia...@nospampleasethanksmail.com> wrote in
> message news:T9FOf.106078$B94.11539@pd7tw3no...
>> news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
>>> "God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
>>> America's most collected artists.
>>
>> fashioned cake tin, isn't it?
>>
>> It's fucking awful.
>>
>
> But there's justice in the world. Better artists have found ways
> to improve Kincade's fakery:
>
LOL!
>
> One of my favorites:
> http://images.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/01-16-04-kinkade/geno1173.jpg
Oh dear ;)
Robibnikoff
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141668735.9...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Do you want to know Love or kill a willing sacrifice? How you approach
> Jesus reveals your future.
WTF?
SisterIl...@aol.com
Kate wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:23:43 GMT, "Kris Baker"
> <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"666" <son...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> March 5, 2006
> >>
> >> Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
> >> Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
> >> and seamy personal conduct. He disputes the allegations.
> >> By Kim Christensen, Times Staff Writer
> >
> >http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-kinkade5mar05,0,3770067.story?coll=la-home-headlines
> >
> >Hey, he has other people print and paint over crap, line them up
> >in a row, and he walks down and "signs" them.....then the
> >unwashed and uneducated masses lap the stuff up.
> >
> >He's truly a reflection of current morals. But hey! Notice they
> >don't claim he's GAY. So he's a Fine Christian.
> >
> >.....one retailer's ad describes as "something not merely
> >to be acquired, but collected - like fine art itself."
> ><snerk>
>
> paintings at one of his galleries, there's no way you will ever sell
> it for that much even though the man is really popular.
He oozes sleaze, uncutous, really, leaving a line of oil behind him,
like a snail trail.
I felt this the first time I read about him -- a hypocrite, controlling
people.
Someone to shun.
Cary Kittrell
> Gillian White goes:
>
> >"666" <son...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
> >> "God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
> >> America's most collected artists.
>
> >This is the stuff that looks like it should be on the cover of an old
> >fashioned cake tin, isn't it?
>
> >It's fucking awful.
>
> at Siegfried and Roy and grabs women's breasts, so he obviously has
> artist DNA in him somewhere.
Given that resume, he could be the second coming of Jackson Pollack.
(well, except for the "talent" part)
-- cary
Scotius
>Los Angeles Times
>March 5, 2006
>
>Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
>Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
>and seamy personal conduct. He disputes the allegations.
>By Kim Christensen, Times Staff Writer
>
>Thomas Kinkade is famous for his luminous landscapes and street scenes,
>those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
>"God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
>America's most collected artists.
>
I think it's hilarious that in a city where press approval of
things like the porn industry is considered mandatory, they can call
Kinkade a "dark" person, etc. I guess he better watch out for the LAPD
too, now that he's been labelled "dark". You know, those "blue cities"
really aren't very good at showing their liberalism sometimes. Anyway,
as to his antics, for the most part they seem pretty funny. Palming a
woman's breasts is going a bit far, but she could have just given him
a slap.
painter
no interest. Always separate the art from it's maker. Degas was a nasty
racist. But his work is sublime.
stoney
alt.atheism
>Los Angeles Times
>March 5, 2006
>
>Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
>Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
>and seamy personal conduct. He disputes the allegations.
>By Kim Christensen, Times Staff Writer
>
>Thomas Kinkade is famous for his luminous landscapes and street scenes,
>those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
>"God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
>America's most collected artists.
>
>A devout Christian who calls himself the "Painter of Light," Kinkade
>trades heavily on his beliefs and says God has guided his brush - and
>his life - for the last 20 years.
> "When I got saved, God became my
>art agent," he said in a 2004 video biography, genteel in tone and rich
>in the themes of faith and family values that have helped win him
>legions of fans, albeit few among art critics.
But some former Kinkade employees, gallery operators and others contend
that the Painter of Light has a decidedly dark side.
In litigation and interviews with the Los Angeles Times, some former
gallery owners depict Kinkade, 48, as a ruthless businessman who drove
them to financial ruin at the same time he was fattening his business
associates' bank accounts and feathering his nest with tens of millions
of dollars.
Kinkade — whose solely owned Thomas Kinkade Co. is based in Morgan Hill,
Calif. — denies these allegations.
Last month, however, a three-member panel of the American Arbitration
Assn. ordered his company to pay $860,000 for defrauding the former
owners of two failed Virginia galleries. That decision marks the first
major legal setback for Kinkade, who won three previous arbitration
claims. Five more are pending.
It's not just Kinkade's business practices that have been called into
question. Former gallery owners, ex-employees and others say his
personal behavior also belies the wholesome image on which he's built
his empire.
In sworn testimony and interviews, they recount incidents in which an
allegedly drunken Kinkade heckled illusionists Siegfried & Roy in Las
Vegas, cursed a former employee's wife who came to his aid when he fell
off a barstool, and palmed a startled woman's breasts at a signing party
in South Bend, Ind.
And then there is Kinkade's proclivity for "ritual territory marking,"
as he called it, which allegedly manifested itself in the late 1990s
outside the Disneyland Hotel in Anaheim.
"This one's for you, Walt," the artist quipped late one night as he
urinated on a Winnie the Pooh figure, said Terry Sheppard, a former vice
president for Kinkade's company, in an interview.
Kinkade declined The Times' request for an interview but responded to
written questions. He labeled those accounts of his personal behavior as
"ridiculous" and "crazy allegations."
The artist and his lawyer, Dana Levitt, contend that Sheppard, a key
witness in the arbitration cases against Kinkade and his company, is a
disgruntled ex-employee, noting that he lost a wrongful termination
claim against the artist's charitable foundations in 2004. They also
deny the ex-dealers' allegations, which they say are driven by "lawyers
playing the litigation lottery" and are "uncoupled from reality."
Kinkade, a self-described product of a broken home and a hardscrabble
childhood, once worked as a film animator and hawked his paintings at
supermarket parking lots in his hometown of Placerville, Calif. His
climb to fame began two decades ago, when he and his wife spent their
life savings to start making his prints.
Since then, Kinkade has spun a hugely lucrative career from his
distinctly romantic, idealized images of street scenes, lighthouses,
country cottages and landscapes. It is a world without sharp edges, all
warm and fuzzily aglow with setting suns and streetlights and
luminescent windows.
Critics have described Kinkade's works — with titles such as "Sunset on
Lamplight Lane" and "The Garden of Prayer" — as little more than
mass-produced kitsch. But that has not deterred the multitudes who pay
from a few hundred dollars for paper prints to $10,000 or more for
canvas editions he has signed and retouched.
"It's mainstream art, not art you have to look at to try to understand,
or have an art degree to know whether it's good or not," said Mike
Koligman, a longtime fan who with his wife owns Kinkade galleries in San
Diego and Utah.
Karen de la Carriere feels the same way. Framed Kinkades fill her living
room walls and have transformed a long hallway into a veritable gantlet
of glowing lithographs. Kinkade's art is both a personal passion and a
business for the Los Angeles resident, who deals in the resale market
for Kinkades, selling more than $25,000 of his works each month on eBay
and her website.
"This is God-given talent," she said of a favored print, "Sierra Evening
Majesty," with its snowy peaks, red-gold skies and smoke wisping from a
cabin chimney. "He is a modern-day Leonardo da Vinci or Monet. There is
no one in our generation who can paint like that."
Nor many who make the money he does.
From 1997 through May 2005, Kinkade reaped more than $50 million in
royalties from his prints and licensed product lines, according to
testimony in the recently decided arbitration case. His images adorn air
fresheners, night lights, teddy bears, toys, tote bags, pillows,
umbrellas and La-Z-Boy loungers, which one retailer's ad describes as
"something not merely to be acquired, but collected — like fine art
itself."
As he built his brand, Kinkade also came to embody its underlying themes
of faith, family and life's blessings. He speaks lovingly of his
childhood sweetheart, Nanette — whom he married in 1982 — and their four
daughters, calling his family "my proudest achievement in life."
Often, he embeds their initials or images in his paintings. Sometimes he
joins them there.
"There's Thom on his Harley," a saleswoman at one of the original
Kinkade galleries, on Monterey's Cannery Row, said as she showed a
visitor a print of "San Francisco, Lombard Street." Hanging nearby was
"New York, Fifth Avenue," with Thom and one of his daughters in a '57
Chevy convertible.
Such whimsy illustrates the lighter side of the Kinkade his supporters
say is genial and genuine, a "regular guy" with small-town roots. He
also has raised millions for charities, including the Salvation Army and
Make-A-Wish Foundation.
But a far more selfish portrait of the artist emerges from legal action
brought by former gallery owners against Kinkade, Media Arts Group Inc.
— the public company he has since taken private — and some who helped
build it into a $250-million-a-year retail juggernaut before its sales
flagged and its stock tanked.
Ex-dealers allege that the artist used his faith — and manipulated
theirs — to induce them to invest in Thomas Kinkade Signature Galleries,
independently owned stores licensed to deal exclusively in his work.
They also contend he sought to devalue the company before buying it back
two years ago for $32.7 million, renaming it Thomas Kinkade Co.
Company executives and lawyers contend that a steep drop in the number
of Signature galleries, which have dwindled to fewer than half of the
350 that once existed, is a result of a broad decline in the
limited-edition art business, hastened by the dot-com crash, a shrinking
economy and the Sept. 11 attacks.
"Many dealers had the ability to weather the effects of the recession;
some dealers did not," said Chief Executive Dan Byrne.
But such arguments failed to persuade the arbitration panel, which on
Feb. 23 ruled in favor of the former Virginia gallery owners, Karen
Hazlewood and Jeffrey Spinello.
The panel found that the company and one of its executives, Richard F.
Barnett, defrauded the couple by failing to disclose pertinent
information that would have dissuaded them from investing $122,000 to
open the first of their two galleries in 1999.
The interim award of $860,000, based on a decision that Kinkade's lawyer
said he would seek to void, could quadruple when interest, legal fees
and other costs are added, said the former dealers' Michigan lawyer,
Norman Yatooma, whose firm is also handling the five pending arbitration
claims.
Kinkade himself has been dismissed from the Hazlewood-Spinello claim, so
obligation for payment of the award would fall to his solely owned
company, and to Barnett, said Yatooma's associate, Joseph Ejbeh.
Though the panel did not single out the artist in its fraud finding, it
wrote that he and other Media Arts Group executives had created "a
certain religious environment designed to instill a special relationship
of trust" with the couple, who have since divorced. The company,
communicating through Kinkade and the others, often used terms such as
"partner," "trust," "Christian" and "God" to convey a sense of "higher
calling," the panel wrote.
Although Kinkade has said he does not market specifically to Christians,
his limited-edition canvas prints bear the familiar Christian fish
symbol and are inscribed with a biblical reference, "John 3:16." He also
is fond of quoting Matthew 5:16 — "Let your light shine before men" — at
times sounding more evangelist than artist.
"I love to talk about my faith," he said in a deposition. "I try to
embrace people with love, unconditional love, like Christ did."
Former dealer Jim Cote said he was hard-pressed to feel the love. He has
filed an arbitration claim, alleging among other things that he was a
victim of Media Arts Group's pressure to saturate the market.
"In the beginning it was fine," said Cote, of Birmingham, Mich., who
opened his first Signature gallery in 1996. "Sales were great because
Thom at that point was very popular and there were limited outlets to
buy his art."
But as time went on, Cote alleges, Media Arts Group pushed him to open
more galleries, threatening to set up its own outlets in his territory.
Cote eventually had three stores, all of which failed.
"This is not bread and milk," he said. "You can't have galleries on
every corner."
Cote said his net worth of more than $3 million had been erased. Gone
are his marriage, his house and most of his possessions. He doesn't
blame his divorce entirely on his galleries' failure, he said, but "it
certainly didn't help."
He shut his last store in December and has filed for bankruptcy
protection.
"At this point, I've got a dog and an apartment, and that's it," Cote
said. "This is not where I thought I'd be at 56."
Kinkade's lawyers deny Cote's allegations.
As Hazlewood, Spinello, Cote and other Signature gallery owners were
faltering, the company's stock plummeted from a high of nearly $25 a
share to less than $3. Former dealers allege that Kinkade allowed them
to sink in order to drive down the stock price, so he could buy back the
company at a bargain basement price — a charge the artist and his lawyer
said was absurd.
"There was no conspiracy to shoot ourselves in the foot," Kinkade
testified in the arbitration case that was just decided. "Nobody wanted
to hurt the dealers."
Kinkade, who co-founded the company as Lightpost Publishing in 1989 and
took it public in 1994, bought it back in 2004 for $4 a share. Investors
who had put their faith and their fortunes in the Painter of Light — a
moniker he trademarked — were left holding a mostly empty bag.
"I took a bloodbath, an absolute bloodbath," said De la Carriere, the
Los Angeles art dealer, who said she invested her inheritance in Media
Arts Group stock at more than $20 a share.
But even as the company ran aground, Kinkade and others in top positions
prospered, according to testimony.
From 1997 through May 2005, Kinkade earned $53 million for his work, the
company's assistant controller testified. That figure includes $11.8
million from top-of-the-line "studio proofs," small-edition canvas
prints that Kinkade personally retouched, or "highlighted"— with as much
as 65% of the profit going to him.
Kinkade wasn't the only one who got rich.
Barnett, then head of retail sales and now an executive vice president,
also made millions as the Signature galleries were failing. Unbeknownst
to the dealers, he reaped commissions on all art sold to them at
wholesale, averaging more than $2 million a year for 1999, 2000 and
2001, according to testimony.
The arbitration panel found that the company and Barnett, who ran a
training program for prospective gallery owners known as Thomas Kinkade
University, "painted an unrealistic and misleading picture of the
prospects for success" and never warned potential investors of the
inherent risks.
"We were told success story after success story, and of course the 'Thom
story' and his Christian views and the way he runs his life," Spinello
told the arbitration panel in late 2004.
Just as it has revealed the inner workings of Kinkade's business, the
dealer litigation also has delved into his personal conduct, which
witnesses testified was often at odds with the God-fearing image he
projected.
In testimony and interviews with The Times, Sheppard and other former
employees said they often went with Kinkade to strip clubs and bars,
where he frequently became intoxicated and out of control.
John Dandois, Media Arts Group's senior director of retail operations
from 1995 to 1999, testified in a hearing that the artist was a sort of
Jekyll-and-Hyde character, whose behavior worsened as the alcohol
flowed.
"Thom would be fine, he would be drinking, and then all of a sudden, you
couldn't tell where the boundary was," he said. "And then he became very
incoherent, and he would start cussing and doing a lot of weird stuff."
Dandois, who left the company to become chief executive of a group of
galleries owned by Kinkade's brother, Patrick, recounted that about six
years ago the artist was so intoxicated during a performance by
Siegfried & Roy in Las Vegas that people seated nearby moved away from
him.
"I think it was Roy or Siegfried or whatever had a codpiece in his
leotards," Dandois testified. "And so when the show started, Thom just
started yelling, 'Codpiece, codpiece,' and had to be quieted by his
mother and Nanette."
At other times, Kinkade could be downright nasty, Dandois testified,
recalling an incident in which Dandois' wife tried to help the allegedly
inebriated artist to his feet in a bar.
"He had been falling down, and he fell off the stool, and he was laying
on the ground and just looked up at her and flipped her the bird and
told her, you know, just to 'F you' several times," Dandois testified.
In an interview, Sheppard, who often accompanied Kinkade on the road,
recounted a trip to Orange County in the late 1990s for the artist's
appearance on the "Hour of Power" television show at the Crystal
Cathedral in Garden Grove. On the eve of the broadcast, Sheppard said,
he and Kinkade returned to the Disneyland Hotel after a night of heavy
drinking. As they walked to their rooms, according to Sheppard and
another person who was there, Kinkade veered toward a nearby figure of a
Disney character.
"Thom wanders over to Winnie the Pooh and decides to 'mark his
territory,' " Sheppard told The Times.
In a deposition, the artist alluded to his practice of urinating
outdoors, saying he "grew up in the country" where it was common. When
pressed about allegedly relieving himself in a hotel elevator in Las
Vegas, Kinkade said it might have happened.
"There may have been some ritual territory marking going on, but I don't
recall it," he said.
Kinkade's memory also was fuzzy when he was asked during the arbitration
proceedings about a signing party in Indiana that went awry in August
2002.
Held at a South Bend hotel, the party began sedately enough as Kinkade
met with a group of Signature gallery owners to sign stacks of prints.
Some who were there say it was a goodwill gesture by the artist to
smooth relations with dealers, who could sell the signed pieces at a
premium.
After the larger group dispersed, Kinkade and others moved to a smaller
room for a private signing with Michigan gallery owner Cote and some of
his employees. Champagne was served, then hard liquor. By various
accounts, most of the partyers overindulged, including Kinkade and Cote.
At one point, according to testimony and interviews with Cote and three
others who were there, Kinkade polled the men in the room about their
preferences in women's anatomies.
"He was having a conversation with the men in the room about whether
they like breasts or butts," said Lori Kopec, Cote's director of gallery
operations, who also testified about the party. "There were only two
women in the room, and I was very uncomfortable at that point."
It was during that bawdy discussion, according to arbitration records,
that Kinkade turned his attention to the other woman.
"He approached [her] and he palmed her breasts and he said, 'These are
great tits!' " Ernie Dodson, another Cote employee, told The Times,
adding that he drank no alcohol that night. "I was just standing in the
corner in amazement. It was like, holy cow!"
The woman whom Kinkade allegedly fondled confirmed to The Times that he
touched her breasts without her consent. She spoke on condition of
anonymity, saying she was embarrassed and concerned for her family's
privacy.
Cote and Kopec said they also saw the alleged groping.
"She let out a yelp and backed away," Kopec said. "That's when I knew he
had actually touched her."
Kinkade testified in a deposition that excessive drinking and "some
normal rowdy talk" had taken place, but when confronted with the groping
allegation, he denied touching the woman.
"But you've got to remember," he said, "I'm the idol to these women who
are there. They sell my work every day, you know. They're enamored with
any attention I would give them. I don't know what kind of flirting they
were trying to do with me. I don't recall what was going on that night."
In response to The Times' written questions, Kinkade did not address any
specific incident.
"It does disappoint me when people I have tried to help and befriend
make crazy allegations about me," he said. "I am a big fan of
imagination, but the specific allegations you have described to me are
ridiculous and I feel like the victim of a legal stalker."
He described himself as "an average, hard-working guy who just happens
to be a famous artist" and said he didn't take himself too seriously.
In the recent arbitration case, he also testified that he had never
claimed to be perfect.
"Book of Ecclesiastes says enjoy yourself, have a glass of wine, for
this is God's will for you," he said. "It's never consistent with God's
will that we behave in a sinful way; however, God also loves us and
accepts us and understands that at times we have our failings."
Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
stoney
wrote in alt.atheism
>
>"Gillian White" <Gillia...@nospampleasethanksmail.com> wrote in message
>news:T9FOf.106078$B94.11539@pd7tw3no...
>> "666" <son...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Thomas Kinkade is famous for his luminous landscapes and street scenes,
>>> those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
>>> "God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
>>> America's most collected artists.
>>
>> This is the stuff that looks like it should be on the cover of an old
>> fashioned cake tin, isn't it?
>>
>> It's fucking awful.
>>
>> Gillian
>
>But there's justice in the world. Better artists have found ways
>to improve Kincade's fakery:
>
>http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1918
>
>(Put down your coffee, first.)
Hehehehhehehe
>One of my favorites:
>http://images.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/01-16-04-kinkade/geno1173.jpg
>
>
>Kris
johac
"Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote:
> "Gillian White" <Gillia...@nospampleasethanksmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T9FOf.106078$B94.11539@pd7tw3no...
> > "666" <son...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> Thomas Kinkade is famous for his luminous landscapes and street scenes,
> >> those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
> >> "God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
> >> America's most collected artists.
> >
> > This is the stuff that looks like it should be on the cover of an old
> > fashioned cake tin, isn't it?
> >
> > It's fucking awful.
> >
> > Gillian
>
> But there's justice in the world. Better artists have found ways
> to improve Kincade's fakery:
>
> http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1918
>
> (Put down your coffee, first.)
>
> One of my favorites:
> http://images.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/01-16-04-kinkad
> e/geno1173.jpg
>
>
> Kris
LOL! How funny!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
stoney
<witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1141668735.9...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Do you want to know Love or kill a willing sacrifice? How you approach
>> Jesus reveals your future.
>
>WTF?
Exactly.
Christopher
Kate wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:23:43 GMT, "Kris Baker"
> <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"666" <son...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> March 5, 2006
> >>
> >> Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
> >> Christian-themed artist Thomas Kinkade is accused of ruthless tactics
> >> and seamy personal conduct. He disputes the allegations.
> >> By Kim Christensen, Times Staff Writer
> >
> >http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-kinkade5mar05,0,3770067.story?coll=la-home-headlines
> >
> >Hey, he has other people print and paint over crap, line them up
> >in a row, and he walks down and "signs" them.....then the
> >unwashed and uneducated masses lap the stuff up.
> >
> >He's truly a reflection of current morals. But hey! Notice they
> >don't claim he's GAY. So he's a Fine Christian.
> >
> >.....one retailer's ad describes as "something not merely
> >to be acquired, but collected - like fine art itself."
> ><snerk>
>
> Artists hate the man. He's such a shyster. If you buy one of 'his'
> paintings at one of his galleries, there's no way you will ever sell
> it for that much even though the man is really popular.
His paintings aren't very old yet. Give it time.
Picasso's painting were not instant masterpieces, in fact it took over
100 years after his death before it was deemed to be a sign of social
prowess to own an original Picasso.
Paintings of artists, are not usually highly valued in theri lifetime.
It is only when they have died, that their paintings then become
valuable, and then only the ones that the artist painted himself.
Some of Picasso's students made copies of his paintings, but they
aren't worth ANYTHING.
Frankly, no one is as virtuous as they would like other people to think
they are. Everyone has their own weaknesses, and apparently Thomas
Kincade's, like most people's, come out when he is drunk or intoxicated.
Robibnikoff
"Christopher" <christoph...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1141872005.9...@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
Um, he died in 1973.
Kris Baker
"Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:47b2l5F...@individual.net...
>
> "Christopher" <christoph...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1141872005.9...@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> Picasso's painting were not instant masterpieces, in fact it took over
>> 100 years after his death before it was deemed to be a sign of social
>> prowess to own an original Picasso.
>
> Um, he died in 1973.
> --
> Robyn
...and many of Picasso's paintings WERE instant masterpieces.
IF there is any value to a Kincade in the future, it will be as a curiosity
of a time when people fell for the "certificate of authenticity"
mentality...
rather than learn about quality. Kind of like a Beanie Baby.
Kris
ronniecat
<kris....@prodigyy.net> promised to tell the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth but instead wrote:
>IF there is any value to a Kincade in the future, it will be as a curiosity
>of a time when people fell for the "certificate of authenticity"
>mentality...
>rather than learn about quality. Kind of like a Beanie Baby.
A personal rule of thumb of mine is that *anything* intentionally
produced as 'collectible' is automatically and near-instantly
worthless.
For example, a friend of mine who worked for a certain
collectibles-producing juggernaut which advertises a lot in
supermarket tabloids told me that "limited edition" actually means
"limited to the number of orders we get". In other words, by
definition the more popular an item is, the more common and hence
valueless it is and the only things they produce that can be remotely
considered 'rare' are the ones nobody much likes or wants.
ronnie
--
"The very deaf, as I am, hear the most astounding things all
'round them, which have not, in fact, been said." - Henry Green
<<remove mycollar to respond by email>>
www.hearingloss.blogspot.com - a blog about deafness
Phoenix
says...
And anything Picasso put on paper after 1950 was an instant masterpeice
(or worth a whole bunch of money.) He had a funny habit of burning his
bad sketches in front of guests and commenting that "there goes 100
grand."
bel
>
Kris Baker
"ronniecat" <ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote in message
news:eos012p42k4csas8f...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:32:15 GMT, "Kris Baker"
> <kris....@prodigyy.net> promised to tell the truth, the whole truth
> and nothing but the truth but instead wrote:
>
>>IF there is any value to a Kincade in the future, it will be as a
>>curiosity
>>of a time when people fell for the "certificate of authenticity"
>>mentality...
>>rather than learn about quality. Kind of like a Beanie Baby.
>
> A personal rule of thumb of mine is that *anything* intentionally
> produced as 'collectible' is automatically and near-instantly
> worthless.
>
> For example, a friend of mine who worked for a certain
> collectibles-producing juggernaut which advertises a lot in
> supermarket tabloids told me that "limited edition" actually means
> "limited to the number of orders we get". In other words, by
> definition the more popular an item is, the more common and hence
> valueless it is and the only things they produce that can be remotely
> considered 'rare' are the ones nobody much likes or wants.
>
> ronnie
FM, I'll bet ;)
Your friend is absolutely right. You can't give a collector plate
away anymore, as all those people who "invested" in them
have found. FM did produce a couple of things that have
risen in value: books, model cars and maybe a chess set.
I've been a bear on this subject for years on Usenet. Even
when I worked for Prodigy and those Beanie Baby collectors
were having so much fun trading them, I saw nastiness
behind it....and kept warning them to "keep it fun". Most
did, some didn't.
Kincade started in the supermarket-level mags, too.
Kris
A.
666 wrote:
> Los Angeles Times
> March 5, 2006
>
> Dark Portrait of a 'Painter of Light'
>
> In litigation and interviews with the Los Angeles Times, former gallery
> owners depict Kinkade, 48, as a ruthless businessman who drove them to
> financial ruin at the same time he was fattening his business
> associates' bank accounts and feathering his nest with tens of millions
> Arbitration Assn. ordered his company to pay $860,000 for defrauding
> the former owners of two failed Virginia galleries. That decision marks
> the first major legal setback for Kinkade, who won three previous
> arbitration claims. Five more are pending.
>
retirement account plus their money from selling their fast food
business and put it into a Kinkade franchise. Supposedly, Kinkade's
company had done a "complete business analysis" of the location of the
new gallery, which turned out to be completely false. Not only was no
analysis done, a false analysis (including demographics and false
statistics about previous sales of his paintings) was provided. These
two people were not particularly savvy about contracts or scams (or
art!), they have spent their entire lives ensconced in what they see as
"The Christian Community." They have now moved out of state into a
house with her ailing sister, their two kids are on their own
financially, but living with their grandma. So, instead of having a
nice retirement and something to leave to their kids, they have
nothing. Everyone speaks about it in hushed tones, as both are very
depressed and embarassed.
I'm glad the law is catching up to him.
A.
Kris Baker
"A." <atalanta....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141941626....@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
> This happened to some old friends of mine - very sad. They took their
> retirement account plus their money from selling their fast food
> business and put it into a Kinkade franchise. Supposedly, Kinkade's
> company had done a "complete business analysis" of the location of the
> new gallery, which turned out to be completely false. Not only was no
> analysis done, a false analysis (including demographics and false
> statistics about previous sales of his paintings) was provided. These
> two people were not particularly savvy about contracts or scams (or
> art!), they have spent their entire lives ensconced in what they see as
> "The Christian Community." They have now moved out of state into a
> house with her ailing sister, their two kids are on their own
> financially, but living with their grandma. So, instead of having a
> nice retirement and something to leave to their kids, they have
> nothing. Everyone speaks about it in hushed tones, as both are very
> depressed and embarassed.
>
> I'm glad the law is catching up to him.
>
> A.
Only when people sue.
People who "get embarrassed" when they are scammed, are the
ones that keep the scammer in business.
It's kind of like all the people who end up with timeshares, because
they got this little card in the mail offering them a free meal ;)
Kris
stoney
wrote in alt.atheism
A fee meal..... ;)
Tina
E Varden wrote:
> "Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote >> Thankew (and for the coffee-warning)!
>
> I haven't had so much fun at a site in a long time.
>
> ===
>
> Where did this drunken cheat and mysogynist Christian fuckwit originally get
> his inspiration?
>
> May I suggest the paintings of Maxfield Parrish (1870-1966); American.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/qblqk
I wasn't much of a Romanticism fan but I did like the landscapes of
Joseph Turner.
Kris Baker
"Tina" <lisa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1142100708.2...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Parrish was actually an illustrator, whose prints became popular due
to people seeing his name in books and on magazine covers..
http://www.bpib.com/illustrat/parrish.htm
Kincade's actually started to apologize to people (maybe because
of the LA Times' going after him so vociferously). Of course, he
was only apologizing for his drunken behavior ;)
Kris
E Varden
"Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com>
.
.
.>>
>> His [Kincade's] paintings aren't very old yet. Give it time.
>> Picasso's painting were not instant masterpieces, in fact it took over
>> 100 years after his death before it was deemed to be a sign of social
>> prowess to own an original Picasso.
>
> Um, he died in 1973.
So much for this authoritative posting assdhole...
Pe
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
E Varden
.
.
> I wasn't much of a Romanticism fan but I did like the landscapes of
> Joseph Turner.
You shoulda loved in London circa Turner-time. He was like a photographer
of the deadly smog that suffocated the city.
Beautiful? Yes, Like an atomic bomb plume is beautiful.
Alan Hope
>"Tina" <lisa...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> I wasn't much of a Romanticism fan but I did like the landscapes of
>> Joseph Turner.
>You shoulda loved in London circa Turner-time. He was like a photographer
>of the deadly smog that suffocated the city.
Really? Turner's not best-known as a city painter. His two best-known
paintings of London (probably) are of a major fire and a steam-train
respectively. Not the best indication of ambient air quality, I'd have
said.
>Beautiful? Yes, Like an atomic bomb plume is beautiful.
Which particular works did you have in mind?
--
AH
Tina
PE might be referring to the atmospheric quality that Turner created in
his paintings. What made him stand apart from the other landscape
painters of the time was the exact thing PE pointed out - the
concentration on light as it played against the clouds, fog/smog, water
etc rather than focusing on details and extreme realism like Constable
did.
Alan Hope
Yes, that may be. Or as I suspect, s/he may be thinking of the series
of paintings from Westminster Bridge painted by Claude Monet. Turner
didn't paint smog.
--
AH
Tina
Especially since automobile exhaust cause smog - and there weren't any
cars during Turner's time. . At least not enough to hover over London.
There *is* the painting of the burning of the House of Commons in
London. Maybe that's what PE is thinking of. But you're right, Turner
wasn't known for cityscapes - mostly water landscapes.
Although he does come across as a bitchy queen sometimes, PE is most
definitely a "he".
Ilene Bilenky
"Tina" <lisa...@aol.com> wrote:
> Especially since automobile exhaust cause smog - and there weren't any
> cars during Turner's time.
But plenty of coal fires and industrial smoke. Smogs were famous
(infamous) in Turner's time, too.
IB
Tina
Yes that is true too....
stoney
alt.atheism
Years ago I got my mother a large print of possibly Turner or Constable.
Of course, I could be thoroughly confused at recalling who the artist
was.
stoney
wrote in alt.atheism
>
The little I saw was a back-handed 'apology,' which wasn't.
stoney
alt.atheism
>
Perhaps?
http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/turner/gallery3d.htm
stoney
alt.atheism
>
Years ago I got my mother a large print of possibly Turner or Constable.
Of course, I could be thoroughly confused at recalling who the artist
was.
Just did a little digging. If memory serves me correctly the print was;
Constable, John "Flatford Mill"
John Smith
that. London air was very poor in quality for most of the 19th century,
and there were days where the polution was so bad that people died. The
water in the Thames was so bad that the Thames blew up in the 1870s when
two chemical fronts collided with one another.
John
John Smith
> In article <0vFOf.3545$%m4....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>,
> "Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>"Gillian White" <Gillia...@nospampleasethanksmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:T9FOf.106078$B94.11539@pd7tw3no...
>>
>>>"666" <son...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1141567488....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>those dreamy, deliberately inspirational images he says have brought
>>>>"God's light" into people's lives, even as they have made him one of
>>>>America's most collected artists.
>>>
>>>This is the stuff that looks like it should be on the cover of an old
>>>fashioned cake tin, isn't it?
>>>
>>>It's fucking awful.
>>>
>>>Gillian
>>
>>But there's justice in the world. Better artists have found ways
>>to improve Kincade's fakery:>>One of my favorites:
>>http://images.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/01-16-04-kinkad
>>e/geno1173.jpg
>>
>>
>>Kris
>
>
> LOL! How funny!
More sites...ever heard of Art Renewal? These people have a REAL hatred
for modern art, and even dislike Turner for his modernism. The art is
staid, and the contemporary works are finely detailed and as exciting as
porridge. The site, at http://www.artrenewal.org/ is a bottomless pit of
salon works. And in the forums...god, how they rant. They are far right
of centre politically, but you know that they'd love socialist realist
paintings.
But for a truly joyful time, go to the MOBA, the Museum of Bad Art at
http://www.museumofbadart.org/. I GUARANTEE that you will not regret
this wonderful site.
Enjoy!
John
Alan Hope
You exaggerate. Turner's effects must not be regarded as naturalistic.
>London air was very poor in quality for most of the 19th century,
>and there were days where the polution was so bad that people died.
Turner died in 1851, as the Second Industrial Revolution was just
beginning.
>The
>water in the Thames was so bad that the Thames blew up in the 1870s when
>two chemical fronts collided with one another.
Sewage and other waste was pumped straight into the river, yes. Not
really something that shows in air quality, I suppose you'd agree.
--
AH
Kris Baker
"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
news:ogh8129rpdd130b50...@4ax.com...
No, it wasn't. It was an admission and he used the word "apology".
Kris
John Smith
Visitors were always aware of the foul smell even then. BUT...you are
right. By the 1860s it was a place where the sun "set" around 4:00 p.m.
John
Tina
Ugh...we have one of those Bourgereau pastoral scene paintings in the
Seattle Art Museum. Like someone mentioned already, this and Kincaid's
art is the kind of art you'd see on cookie tins.
John Smith
Ugh. Art Renewal goes on ad nauseum (LOTS of nauseum) about Bougereau's
apparent genius. They really are hideous pictures, bordering on the
obscene. Hope you got a kick out of the site. It just goes on, and on,
and on...
In Kinkade's case, it is all paint by numbers. I always enjoy those
paint instruction shows on PBS that get you to do a starving artist work
in 25 minutes...and in the process they debunk any idea of talent that
the starvers have.
John
E Varden
"Tina" <lisa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> Especially since automobile exhaust cause smog - and there weren't any
> cars during Turner's time. . At least not enough to hover over London.
Tina, you are seriously out to lunch in this one. The pollutants of the
coal-driven Industrial Revolution combined with the famous London fog (and
that of other industrialized towns like Birmingham and Glasgow produced
SMoke and fOG, a lethal mixture which often made moving through the streets
a visually dicey proposition, sometimes even in daylight. (This pollution
was not confined to London itself; iot affected the area for miles and miles
and miles...
That shit produced spectaular sunsets (and sunrises as did [do] the eruption
of volcanoes.
> There *is* the painting of the burning of the House of Commons in
> London. Maybe that's what PE is thinking of. But you're right, Turner
> wasn't known for cityscapes - mostly water landscapes.
>
Pe
(See my just-previous post on "O/T, but painterly" on the origins of
impressionism.)
Alan Hope
>"Tina" <lisa...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> Especially since automobile exhaust cause smog - and there weren't any
>> cars during Turner's time. . At least not enough to hover over London.
>Tina, you are seriously out to lunch in this one. The pollutants of the
>coal-driven Industrial Revolution combined with the famous London fog (and
>that of other industrialized towns like Birmingham and Glasgow produced
>SMoke and fOG, a lethal mixture which often made moving through the streets
>a visually dicey proposition, sometimes even in daylight. (This pollution
>was not confined to London itself; iot affected the area for miles and miles
>and miles...
>That shit produced spectaular sunsets (and sunrises as did [do] the eruption
>of volcanoes.
That's all true, but not up to 1851, when Turner died. It may be
instructive to look at some of his seascapes, for example, when you
will see what appears to be fog or mist or indeed smog. It isn't
(always) meant to be that. It's all part of how Turner depicted
atmospheric conditions in oils (his watercolours are something else).
You might as well look for an oil painting that *doesn't* look as
smoggy as the various works that have been mentioned.
>> There *is* the painting of the burning of the House of Commons in
>> London. Maybe that's what PE is thinking of. But you're right, Turner
>> wasn't known for cityscapes - mostly water landscapes.
>(See my just-previous post on "O/T, but painterly" on the origins of
>impressionism.)
One is almost tempted to subscribe to your ng just to see it, but then
one remembers one has a life, and one's own ngs have quite enough
kooks already, thanks very much.
--
AH
Tina
Yes you're right I was OTL...London was very polluted as were many
other cities who used coal as a fuel. I remember the glorious sunsets
in the Denver area about 10 years ago when Yellowstone National Park
was on fire. Smoke that traveled 600+ miles south could be seen the
whole summer. The Impressionists would have had a field day painting
that sky.
stoney
wrote in alt.atheism
Christians.... [shaking head sadly]
stoney
<johnsm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in alt.atheism
>Alan Hope wrote:
>> Tina goes:
[]
>> Yes, that may be. Or as I suspect, s/he may be thinking of the series
>> of paintings from Westminster Bridge painted by Claude Monet. Turner
>> didn't paint smog.
>Oh, yes he did. The train pictures and the few urban pictures pick up on
>that. London air was very poor in quality for most of the 19th century,
>and there were days where the polution was so bad that people died. The
>water in the Thames was so bad that the Thames blew up in the 1870s when
>two chemical fronts collided with one another.
Yeow!
As of 1998 it was hard to breathe in areas of London's Prince Street.
IIRC, it was the early/middle 60's when the Detroit River was aflame,
and for quite a number of years Lake Erie was devoid of marine life.
Tina
stoney wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:18:32 -0500, John Smith
> <johnsm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> >Alan Hope wrote:
> >> Tina goes:
>
> []
>
> >> Yes, that may be. Or as I suspect, s/he may be thinking of the series
> >> of paintings from Westminster Bridge painted by Claude Monet. Turner
> >> didn't paint smog.
>
> >Oh, yes he did. The train pictures and the few urban pictures pick up on
> >that. London air was very poor in quality for most of the 19th century,
> >and there were days where the polution was so bad that people died. The
> >water in the Thames was so bad that the Thames blew up in the 1870s when
> >two chemical fronts collided with one another.
>
> Yeow!
>
> As of 1998 it was hard to breathe in areas of London's Prince Street.
>
> IIRC, it was the early/middle 60's when the Detroit River was aflame,
> and for quite a number of years Lake Erie was devoid of marine life.
I remember seeing the dead fish floating on top of the water on the
beaches of Lake Erie when I was a kid back in the 70s. Nobody dared
swim in that water.
stoney
alt.atheism
>
I remember shoreline loaded with layers and layers and layers of rotting
fish, in Canada, a short walk from my dads friends cottage. It was a
small inlet/lagoon type spot at the bottom of a staired bluff. No, no
one went near the water-the stench alone was bad enough.