Re: 3 Missing College Students found in Submerged Car
Slow Motion Apocalypse
> 3 ND college students found dead in sunken Jeep
> By BLAKE NICHOLSON
> Three North Dakota college softball players believed to have been on a
> stargazing trip were found dead inside a Jeep after signals from their
> last desperate phone calls helped lead authorities to a rural farm pond.
At least one of them should have been roadgazing.
SoCally
gotten out of the car in time with such a small amount of water.
One negative aspect of automatic windows is that if the car is off,
you can't get the windows down. Still they "should" have had enough
time to escape by the door.
Kris Baker
There's several things I can't figure out.
They called their friends, and asked for help (rather than
calling 911). They went out "stargazing" frequently. They
were three ultra-strong women (sports stars at the college),
who should have been able to escape.
I'm sure toxicology will turn up something. You don't
have to go out onto a dirty road near Dickinson, ND to
"stargaze". There's not a lot of light pollution out in
those rural areas. (But you might go out there, if you want
privacy for something else.)
Kris
Kris
JonesieCat
"Slow Motion Apocalypse" <slowmotion...@rocketmail.com> wrote in
message
news:5e36b81d-1345-4ad1...@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. Maybe something just went wrong with the brakes? Sounds like the
2 passengers made calls while the driver struggled. If they left the road
and were driving through a field, maybe they didn't even see the pond until
the last moment? Can someone tell me about the dynamics of opening car doors
underwater? How much pressure keeps doors closed in 12 ft of water? Anything
to prevent one from breaking out windows? Would the sudden inflow of water
prevent one from holding one's breath long enough to escape after the
pressure equalized?
jc (reminded of Jessica Savitch who's car was only submerged under 4 ft of
water)
Pneuma
wrote:
>Can someone tell me about the dynamics of opening car doors
>underwater?
You have to roll down the window to let in the water to equalize the
pressure or the door will never open.
Pneuma
--
Read the United States National Health Insurance Act
outline @ http://www.cprights.org/plan.php?plan=8
Total Estimated Cost: $1.8 Trillion/year
Poe
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:02:42 GMT, "JonesieCat" <jonesi...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Can someone tell me about the dynamics of opening car doors
>> underwater?
>
> You have to roll down the window to let in the water to equalize the
> pressure or the door will never open.
>
>
>
> Pneuma
I don't know that electric car windows would work underwater - wouldn't
they short out? Breaking the windows would be the next option. I wonder
if they had anything hard to do that. Sad situation.
Kris Baker
news:7lehtvF...@mid.individual.net...
There was an "escape from disaster" show that said most would operate
under water. But.....you have to wait to roll them down (or open the
door)
because if the water levels aren't equalized, the rush of water that comes
in, will be too foreful.
Best to get a floating car.
http://www.stumbleupon.com/stumbler/FreqWiz/review/11622313/
Kris
M
> 3 ND college students found dead in sunken Jeep
> By BLAKE NICHOLSON
> Three North Dakota college softball players believed to have been on a
> stargazing trip were found dead inside a Jeep after signals from their
> last desperate phone calls helped lead authorities to a rural farm pond.
> of the deaths was not immediately known Tuesday when the bodies were
> discovered. Investigators were scheduled to hold a news conference
> Wednesday morning. Autopsies were planned.
> Police Lt. Rod Banyai said he believed the women were inside the Jeep when
> they called for help late Sunday night, but he did not know whether the
> vehicle was under water when the calls were made.
> "At this time, foul play is not suspected," Banyai said Tuesday night.
> Investigators were working to determine whether the vehicle had any
> defects or whether alcohol was involved, he said.
> The victims were Kyrstin Gemar, 22, of San Diego; Afton Williamson, 20, of
> Lake Elsinore, Calif.; and Ashley Neufeld, 21, of Brandon, Manitoba.
> The Dickinson State University students were believed to be in the white
> 1997 Jeep Cherokee when two of their friends received telephone calls late
> Sunday night. But the lines quickly went dead.
> Police described the first as a "very scratchy" call for help in which one
> of the Dickinson State University students said they were near a lake and
> water.
> Banyai said the pond where the women were found was a couple miles off a
> road on a farm northwest of Dickinson, a city of 16,000 people. It's about
> 100 miles west of Bismarck and 60 miles east of the Montana state line.
> Banyai said "pings" - signals sent between cell phones and provider towers
> - from the women's phone calls helped narrow the search area. Searchers
> found vehicle tracks leading into the pond Tuesday afternoon.
> "After that was located, the plane flew over the top and it could see that
> there was a white object in the water," Banyai said.
> The vehicle was pulled from the pond about two hours later.
> Gemar's father, Lenny, had said it was not uncommon for his daughter and
> her friends to go stargazing on the spur of the moment. Tuesday night,
> Lenny Gemar was among those who attended a prayer service inside a packed
> Dickinson State student center ballroom.
> "It's the worst day of my life. A parent shouldn't be burying a child.
> Kyrstin had such a bright future ahead of her," he said.
> Neufeld's mother, Bev Neufeld, said her family was trying to be strong.
> "That's what she would want, and we have so much support here (on
> campus)," Bev Neufeld said. "We know how much Ashley loved this school. I
> would just like everybody to remember Ashley's smile and personality."
> The 2,700-student university listed Gemar as a senior business major who
> played third base on the softball team. Neufeld was a senior outfielder
> working on a psychology degree, and Williamson, a junior, was a pitcher
> majoring in psychology with a minor in coaching.
> "I'm sure it will be difficult for quite a while. But we know that they'll
> be there with us. They would want us to play," softball teammate Jessica
> Huseby of Hamilton, Mont., said at the prayer service. "We just know
> they're going to be the 10th, 11th and 12th players on the field with us."
>
Pond temp is likely to be about a month behind air temp, maybe plus a
degree or two from sun warming. The average October temperature in
Dickinson is lower 40's.
Fifty degrees would be painfully cold water. In the time it takes for
water fill the car and equalize pressure (what 30 secs? a minute?) a
well-dressed person could get cold.
Finding the surface in 12 feet of water at night might be a challenge.
There was a full moon, but they may have muddied the water when the
jeep entered it.
With two of them over 21 and the students lviing at college, it
doesn't seem likley that they would have hit the road to go drinking.
Smoking pot could be a different thing I suppose, but they were
athletes.
The pond was "a couple of miles" of a road. Perhaps they were
calling friends to maybe get on a computer and figure out where they
were? I mean, before they hit the pond. I'm not sure if that is
technologically plausible. Maybe they had GPS coordinates, but no GPS
map?
If there was some kind of a boat launch, one might follow it into the
water thinking the dark, flat stuff might be pavement, I suppose.
Just speculating.
Mick
MaryL
"Pneuma" <frank...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hct3b3$8qe$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
There is a device that is advertised for helping a person break out of a
car. Supposedly, it is strong enough to break a car window (I've always
been a bit dubious), and it also has a blade for cutting seat belts. Most
people don't carry them in the car, of course, but I wonder if they really
are functional. Anyone know?
MaryL
Kris Baker
news:4af233a5$0$5319$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
Yeah, I think it's called a tire iron and a box cutter. ;)
I don't know about a blade for cutting a seat belt; if you're
that trapped, or the car is that crushed, can you even get
out?
My SUV has two handy sun roofs that would work just
great as escape hatches, with controls way up at the top.
The car's designed to plow through fairly-deep water, and
then even float....so I've got it all planned out. Just in
case a sudden lake appears in the desert and I'm right
there at the time, and drive into it.
Mythbusters tips:
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode72
Note that the electric car windows *will* work underwater
for awhile, once the pressure is equalized.
Kris
MaryL
"Kris Baker" <paralle...@ggmail.com> wrote in message
news:7let2kF...@mid.individual.net...
It's actually a tool that seriously is sold for that purpose. It is
supposed to be mounted close to the driver so it can quickly be located and
used in an emergency. I have seen them on sale in some AAA offices, and
there are numerous online ads. Here is one (although, as I said, I'm rather
skeptical, particularly of the claim that it can be used to break a window
for escape):
http://policelink.monster.com/products/products/113-life-hammer-escape-tool
MaryL
Kris Baker
The problem with all the tools is that they'll fly around the car
(and maybe kill you) while you're mid-wreck), be hard to find
once you're starting to submerge, and might not work unless
you've practiced (which your insurance company won't much
appreciate).
Being calm....and waiting for the pressure to equalize (hopefully,
your car ends up butt-down so you can open the rear window
while you've got airspace up front) is what the mythbusters
liked best. But who'd calm.
Just don't go stargazing on private property down strange dark
roads in the middle of the night.
Kris
Michael Snyder
You don't need a device, you just need to keep your head.
Wait until the car is nearly full of water. Take a deep breath
of the last air available -- once the air is gone, the doors and/or
windows will open easily unless blocked by something.
realpch
I knew there was a reason that I don't like electric windows. I wonder,
if you had the money to buy a new car, if you could pay extra to get the
manual ones?
: D
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Michael Snyder
Fresh water isn't going to short out your car's electrical systems.
Salt water might.
SoCally
> I knew there was a reason that I don't like electric windows. I wonder,
> if you had the money to buy a new car, if you could pay extra to get the
> manual ones?
I know what you mean. It's the first time I started thinking that
manual is better. Electric ones should at least have an emergency
latch or something.
I think once you know you're in water, you can open the windows and
get out. I'm assuming their car lights still worked and they called
people and mentioned water, so they did have some time before they
sunk. It would be extremely easy to panic in that situation though.
Windows are really hard to break from the inside. If you have a bat
and you're standing outside, no problem, but sitting down without
having the leg strength from standing or without a bat, would make it
pretty hard, even for these 3 who all seemed physically strong.
It's a shame. I think if they were 100 percent sober, they must have
panicked and weren't able to think through what was happening. I'm
wondering why they called friends and not 911 first.
realpch
>
> realpch wrote:
<snip>
> > I knew there was a reason that I don't like electric windows. I wonder,
> > if you had the money to buy a new car, if you could pay extra to get the
> > manual ones?
>
> Fresh water isn't going to short out your car's electrical systems.
> Salt water might.
So why wouldn't fresh water short them out?
JonesieCat
"SoCally" <foa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7f8457b6-81ae-48aa...@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
They just didn't think it might be life threatening, seems to me? Bet you're
right about trying to kick out windows, espec if they had on sneakers too.
Mygawd. Be a horrible way to go, if not knocked unconscious.
jc
realpch
Speed dial? I dunno, I don't have a cell phone. Maybe it being in the
dark there, in the muddy water, made it really hard to think.
Michael Snyder
> Michael Snyder wrote:
>> realpch wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> I knew there was a reason that I don't like electric windows. I wonder,
>>> if you had the money to buy a new car, if you could pay extra to get the
>>> manual ones?
>> Fresh water isn't going to short out your car's electrical systems.
>> Salt water might.
>
> So why wouldn't fresh water short them out?
Doesn't conduct electricity.
JonesieCat
"realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4AF2702E...@aol.com...
You don't have a cell phone?????!! EH?!?!?!?
jc<---stunned
Alison MacIntyre
wrote:
> "Kris Baker" <parallelcoo...@ggmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7let2kF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> >news:4af233a5$0$5319$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> >> "Pneuma" <frank.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:hct3b3$8qe$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:02:42 GMT, "JonesieCat" <jonesiecac...@yahoo.com>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>>Can someone tell me about the dynamics of opening car doors
> >>>>underwater?
>
> >>> You have to roll down the window to let in the water to equalize the
> >>> pressure or the door will never open.
>
> >>> Pneuma
> >>> --
> >>> Read the United States National Health Insurance Act
>
> MaryL- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Does it glow in the dark... like the emergency release latches inside
trunks?
I also wonder if the airbags inflated... another problem that could
have caused even more panic.
Kris Baker
> Michael Snyder wrote:
>>
>> realpch wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> > I knew there was a reason that I don't like electric windows. I wonder,
>> > if you had the money to buy a new car, if you could pay extra to get
>> > the
>> > manual ones?
>>
>> Fresh water isn't going to short out your car's electrical systems.
>> Salt water might.
>
> So why wouldn't fresh water short them out?
>
> Peach
It will....but it takes longer for them to short out, than for you to drown.
No problem.
Kris
yerfriend
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. 50 bux say they were lip licking.
The "stargazing" shit was a pis poor attempt at covering it
up.
yerfriend
Best thing in sinking car is leave windows up, let the water slowly
come in (it will), let the pressure equalize, then open the door and
surface.
M
pure water doesn't. But pond water? I'm skeptical.
In any case, the water hits the battery and unless it is totally
sealed and recently cleaned, there will be plenty of salts around.
Kathy
There is a small inexpensive pointed device that will shatter a car
window without much force. I think you can get it at a store like Home
Depot.
Kathy
_ G O D _
news:7lgldoF...@mid.individual.net...
> SoCally wrote:
>>> I knew there was a reason that I don't like electric windows.
>>
>
> There is a small inexpensive pointed device that
> will shatter a car window without much force.
Do you remember the name? Is it a hammer?
--
_____________________________________________________
I intend to last long enough to put out of business all COck-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--
Alison MacIntyre
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here is a punch. Scroll down to see other options... which include a
keychain version with a seatbelt cutter.
http://www.amazon.com/Graham-Field-Emergency-Window-Punch/dp/B000TSYF86/ref=pd_sim_auto_5
realpch
You have one? Ehhhh!!!
I admit, they must be handy, but they're not free, and I don't know if
I'd want to available to others at all times. Do you leave yours home sometimes?
MaryL
I use the "most basic model" (read: cheap) of pre-paid cell phone. That
way, I have paid for my minutes in advance and I know exactly what is left.
I seldom use it except for travel and to communicate when I plan to meet
someone. I keep mine with me at all times for emergencies, but I never
leave it turned on unless I am expecting a call--I don't want to be one of
those people who seems to think they aren't functioning unless holding a
phone to the ear, and I certainly don't want to be "available" at all times.
However, it has come in very handy to make motel reservations, phone my
sister when I'm visiting and know I will be late, emergency calls when my
mother was in a nursing home, etc.
MaryL
M
wrote:
> "realpch" <real...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4AF3427D...@aol.com...
> > JonesieCat wrote:
>
> >> "realpch" <real...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> > Speed dial? I dunno, I don't have a cell phone. Maybe it being in the
> >> > dark there, in the muddy water, made it really hard to think.
>
> >> You don't have a cell phone?????!! EH?!?!?!?
>
> > I admit, they must be handy, but they're not free, and I don't know if
> > I'd want to available to others at all times. Do you leave yours home
> > sometimes?
>
>
>
> I use the "most basic model" (read: cheap) of pre-paid cell phone. That
> way, I have paid for my minutes in advance and I know exactly what is left.
> I seldom use it except for travel and to communicate when I plan to meet
> someone. I keep mine with me at all times for emergencies, but I never
> leave it turned on unless I am expecting a call-
I'm with MaryL. There is a payphone in the urban park near me from
which I dialed 911 three different times (One was a false alarm, I
think. One was actually funny. One was for a car accident.)
It's a good idea to carry one. Good for travelling, too.
I need to remind myself to charge it, though.
Mick
Kris Baker
news:7lgldoF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> There is a small inexpensive pointed device that will shatter a car window
> without much force. I think you can get it at a store like Home Depot.
>
> Kathy
You didn't read my post with the mythbusters link.....where they
tried something like that?
A tire iron WILL work....but you still won't get out, until the water
pressure has equalized.
Kris
Kris Baker
>
> I admit, they must be handy, but they're not free, and I don't know if
> I'd want to available to others at all times. Do you leave yours home
> sometimes?
>
> Peach
We cancelled our home phone, because it cost more than
our cellphone (and we get free long-distance on the
cell). It's also easier to screen calls, and you don't get
phone spam.
Of course, I don't text or tweet. I find those and Facebook
offensive.
kris
Kathy
> "Kathy" <kb...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:7lgldoF...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> There is a small inexpensive pointed device that will shatter a car
>> window without much force. I think you can get it at a store like
>> Home Depot.
>>
>> Kathy
>
>
> You didn't read my post with the mythbusters link.....where they
> tried something like that?
Oh, I didn't see it. Sorry. I saw the tool demonstrated on the news
and just believed it. When they did it, the window just shattered.
Kathy
Alison MacIntyre
Um, Kris... after shattering the window, is crawling out
acceptable?... or do I still have to wait for the car to fill up?
Kris Baker
> Kris Baker wrote:
>> "Kathy" <kb...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:7lgldoF...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> There is a small inexpensive pointed device that will shatter a car
>>> window without much force. I think you can get it at a store like Home
>>> Depot.
>>>
>>> Kathy
>>
>>
>> You didn't read my post with the mythbusters link.....where they
>> tried something like that?
>
> Oh, I didn't see it. Sorry. I saw the tool demonstrated on the news and
> just believed it. When they did it, the window just shattered.
>
> Kathy
I don't know if it's the same tool, but they used some kind of
"punch" thing supposedly made for just that purpose, and it
didn't work well for them. Underwater.
Kris
realpch
<snip>
> I use the "most basic model" (read: cheap) of pre-paid cell phone. That
> way, I have paid for my minutes in advance and I know exactly what is left.
> I seldom use it except for travel and to communicate when I plan to meet
> someone. I keep mine with me at all times for emergencies, but I never
> leave it turned on unless I am expecting a call--I don't want to be one of
> those people who seems to think they aren't functioning unless holding a
> phone to the ear, and I certainly don't want to be "available" at all times.
> However, it has come in very handy to make motel reservations, phone my
> sister when I'm visiting and know I will be late, emergency calls when my
> mother was in a nursing home, etc.
>
> MaryL
Yes, I'm surprised that there haven't been headlines, such as "Woman
Murdered for Talking on Cell Phone in Produce Aisle". Really, they can
drive you mad. I am amused by the apparent epidemic of people walking
down the street talking to themselves. I've finally trained myself to
look for the earpiece phone.
realpch
I have been reading of people doing that to save money. I'm a
semi-Luddite, and I cling to my old phone number. I am profoundly
uninterested in texting, tweeting, and social networking sites. I've yet
to come up with a polite response to people I know emailing me with
invites to same.
;-)
Sammy Sands
"Bart Bailey" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4af36f8b...@bart.spawar.mil...
> In Message-ID:<4AF36E03...@aol.com> posted on Thu, 05 Nov 2009
> 16:29:55
> -0800, realpch wrote: Begin
>
>>I am amused by the apparent epidemic of people walking
>>down the street talking to themselves. I've finally trained myself to
>>look for the earpiece phone.
>
> I've come to look for the blinking blue light. The loonies are still
> there,
> but their ranks haven't swelled as much as it looked for awhile.
I've yet to see anyone with a Bluetooth ear set that didn't look like a
Lt. Uhuru Wanna-A-Be.....
Sammy
Kris Baker
> Kris Baker wrote:
>>
>> "realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:4AF3427D...@aol.com...
>> >
>> > I admit, they must be handy, but they're not free, and I don't know if
>> > I'd want to available to others at all times. Do you leave yours home
>> > sometimes?
>> >
>> > Peach
>>
>> We cancelled our home phone, because it cost more than
>> our cellphone (and we get free long-distance on the
>> cell). It's also easier to screen calls, and you don't get
>> phone spam.
>>
>> Of course, I don't text or tweet. I find those and Facebook
>> offensive.
>>
>> kris
>
> I have been reading of people doing that to save money. I'm a
> semi-Luddite, and I cling to my old phone number. I am profoundly
> uninterested in texting, tweeting, and social networking sites. I've yet
> to come up with a polite response to people I know emailing me with
> invites to same.
>
> ;-)
>
> Peach
We don't do it to save money; if so, we'd have cancelled our
home phone before we left home for 75% of the past three years ;)
We find it more convenient to not have a phone full of messages
from people we don't care about.
Kris
Michael Snyder
Umm, Alison -- you're welcome to crawl out any time you want,
but good luck moving against the flow of water.
Alison MacIntyre
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not if the car is still floating. If I don't already have the window
down 10 seconds after hitting the water... damn if I'm gonna patiently
sit there and wait for it to sink before I pop the window.
_ G O D _
news:7lh5uhF...@mid.individual.net...
Are you trying to play smart? Don't try. Because it
doesn't change, when you are an idiot. The water
pressure is always stable in each and every point.
But it's easier to get out with water inside the cab...
Alison MacIntyre
> I can't imagine that alcohol wasn't involved since they could have
> gotten out of the car in time with such a small amount of water.
>
> One negative aspect of automatic windows is that if the car is off,
> you can't get the windows down. Still they "should" have had enough
> time to escape by the door.
How do you drive into a pond with the vehicle off? Another question I
have is... what about the automatic door lock? That would certainly
screw up any possibility of escape if you couldn't bust any windows
out. I get the heebie jeebies just thinking about it. These newer
vehicles are death traps in water.
Amy Guskin
(in article <7lh80aF...@mid.individual.net>):
Did you even read your own link? According to the mythbusters, the punch and
the window-breaking hammer both worked on the first try:
>> You can open a window in a submerged car by attempting to break the window
using a window-breaking hammer.
CONFIRMED
The device is designed with a pointed tip designed to shatter tempered glass.
The hammer breaks the window on the first try.
You can open a window in a submerged car by attempting to break the window
using a spring-loaded center punch.
CONFIRMED
The point of the punch can work like the tip of the hammer, and punches are
sold for the purpose of breaking window glass. The punch breaks the window on
the first try. <<
Amy (back to lurking)
JonesieCat
Only leave it at home if I forget it. I don't like talking on the phone in
the best of times, never have. For work I need to have it with me.
jc
JonesieCat
> Kris Baker wrote:
>>
>> "realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:4AF3427D...@aol.com...
>> >
>> > I admit, they must be handy, but they're not free, and I don't know if
>> > I'd want to available to others at all times. Do you leave yours home
>> > sometimes?
>> >
>> > Peach
>>
>> We cancelled our home phone, because it cost more than
>> our cellphone (and we get free long-distance on the
>> cell). It's also easier to screen calls, and you don't get
>> phone spam.
>>
>> Of course, I don't text or tweet. I find those and Facebook
>> offensive.
>>
>> kris
>
> I have been reading of people doing that to save money. I'm a
> semi-Luddite, and I cling to my old phone number. I am profoundly
> uninterested in texting, tweeting, and social networking sites. I've yet
> to come up with a polite response to people I know emailing me with
> invites to same.
>
> ;-)
>
> Peach
Texting is how friends and I make social plans: Someone texts others of us
in a single message where to meet and when. Then we sit down for a good face
to face chat and catch-up. I don't like talking on the phone much and nobody
has the time. I only talk to people I don't get to see so much. With so much
of my family and other friends in a diff country, I've tried to accommodate
their preferences too. But tweeting doesn't do it for me, thought it would
because it's so brief, but much ado about nothing seems to me. I'm trying
out facebook but it takes more time than I thought (not good). Good to see
photos there that other people post though, even those who live near for
that matter.
jc
M
> Yes, I'm surprised that there haven't been headlines, such as "Woman
> Murdered for Talking on Cell Phone in Produce Aisle".
"Honestly, Judge, I had no choice. There was no other way to make her
stop."
Mick
Michael Snyder
I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't just open the damn
window if it's not already submerged.
I believe we've already established that most electric windows
will still work, at least if it's fresh water...
Kris Baker
news:0001HW.C7199D38...@news.eternal-september.org...
You're right, I said that *completely* wrong.
But.....the water pressure problem may still exist. If you can break the
window before the water appears in the window, you can probably
get out. Otherwise, the water's going to flood in as soon as you
break it....and you have to wait (at which point, you could have
opened the door or window, as they describe).
Kris
Alison MacIntyre
> In
> Message-ID:<f9ddad8c-8fe9-4be9-972b-fca8b6cc4...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
> posted on Fri, 6 Nov 2009 05:38:34 -0800 (PST), Alison MacIntyre wrote: Begin
>
>
>
> >How do you drive into a pond with the vehicle off?
>
> but of course they were too young to unstrap their seatbelts
> let alone negotiate an exit.
Jesus... don't get me started on that bitch.
Alison MacIntyre
If I'm a passenger and the driver is unconscious and the windows/doors
have all been master locked by the driver... what are my options
sitting in a dark vehicle that is totally unfamiliar to me... as we
slowly sink into oblivion?
> I believe we've already established that most electric windows
> will still work, at least if it's fresh water...- Hide quoted text -
Fresh water doesn't mean distilled. It still has conductants that can
short out a system.
Michael Snyder
Put on your foil hat and ask your alien friends.
Amy Guskin
(in article <4af57e3e...@bart.spawar.mil>):
> In Message-ID:<0001HW.C7199D38...@news.eternal-september.org>
> posted on Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:30:32 -0400, Amy Guskin wrote: Begin
>
>>
>> Amy (back to lurking)
>
> Now there's a name I haven't seen in awhile.
> Howya been, starting to get cool back there? <<
Thanks for asking. Sick as a dog with H1N1, actually. I still read here
daily, and enjoy many of the posters (you included). Others, not so much.
Still not remotely tempted to start posting in earnest again. :-)
Amy
Kris Baker
Amy, I've just sent my strong healing powers your way!
We'd like to see you post, but heck....if we provide entertainment,
we're not doing a bad job.
Kris
JonesieCat
"Kris Baker" <paralle...@ggmail.com> wrote in message
news:7lk63vF...@mid.individual.net...
Amy! Don't lurk. Post!
jc
Amy Guskin
(in article <7lk63vF...@mid.individual.net>):
> "Amy Guskin" <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C71A4A0A...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 15:52:44 -0400, Bart Bailey wrote
>> (in article <4af57e3e...@bart.spawar.mil>):
>>
>>> In
>>> Message-ID:<0001HW.C7199D38...@news.eternal-september.org>
>>> posted on Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:30:32 -0400, Amy Guskin wrote: Begin
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amy (back to lurking)
>>>
>>> Now there's a name I haven't seen in awhile.
>>> Howya been, starting to get cool back there? <<
>>
>> Thanks for asking. Sick as a dog with H1N1, actually. I still read here
>> daily, and enjoy many of the posters (you included). Others, not so much.
>> Still not remotely tempted to start posting in earnest again. :-)
>>
>> Amy
>
> Amy, I've just sent my strong healing powers your way! <<
Aww, thanks, Kris! Actually, the Tamiflu is doing an astonishingly good job.
Rather than feeling like I am _dying_ of the flu, after a day and a half on
it I merely feel like I am sick as a dog with the flu.
>> We'd like to see you post, but heck....if we provide entertainment,
> we're not doing a bad job. <<
You're definitely earning every penny you're being paid. ;-)
Amy
Amy Guskin
(in article <Fx5Jm.52786$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>):
>
> Amy! Don't lurk. Post! <<
Thanks, JonesieCat -- I might, I might! What brought me out of lurkdom was
the fact that this is sort of my pet subject. I'm one of those people who is
afraid of driving over bridges. It's not about the height; it's about the
possibility of the car ending up in the water. And I knew Kris didn't mean
what she posted!
Amy
Chocolic
Amy needs to go back to lurking mode.
Chocolic
Kris Baker
What came out, wasn't what I meant ;)
Kris
MaryL
"Alison MacIntyre" <chattan_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fa5ceedb-4431-477f...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Another problem for those in the back seat is that rear windows often will
only open part-way. Add panic to that and the difficulty of climbing over
the front seat (plus darkness), and it all adds up to catastrophe.
MaryL
earthage
I had a friend who wasn't afraid of regular bridges, just drawbridges.
I had no
idea of her fear until we were up in Portland and about to cross over
to Washington.
She was driving, went into a big panic when she saw the drawbridge
sign, turned
around and said she couldn't do it. I can't even remember how we got
over.
Probably took another non-drawbridge since there are other bridges to
cross there.
Amy Guskin
(in article
<79f9f307-603b-4339...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>):
Oof! Your poor friend. For me, it comes and goes, and some bridges are
worse than others. I go over the Verrazano a lot, so I'm sort of inured to
it -- except in a high wind -- but I almost froze and had to pull over on the
Francis Scott Key Bridge in Maryland a few weeks ago. I was ill just looking
at it as we approached! I told my husband, never again -- we'll have to find
another route next time! The only way I managed to keep driving was because
he started quizzing me on members of 80s girl bands to keep my mind focused
elsewhere, until we got all the way over. It worked. Thank you, Bangles, Go
Gos, and Bananarama!
Amy
--
Ten Thousand Questions
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com
Kris Baker
Heh. You see, you live where there's too many bridges. Well.....
you could be in Pittsburgh!
Move to the desert. The bridges we have, are pretty much over
other roads or in places where a trickle comes through once in
awhile. Our biggest rivers are like, uh, 50 feet wide.
Kris
Hedera Helix
<slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 3:09 am, Pneuma <frank.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 3 ND college students found dead in sunken Jeep
> > By BLAKE NICHOLSON
> > ThreeNorthDakotacollege softball players believed to have been on a
> > stargazing trip were found dead inside a Jeep after signals from their
> > last desperate phone calls helped lead authorities to a rural farm pond.
>
> At least one of them should have been roadgazing.
They were driving on a path that led them directly into the stock
pond. This was at night and there was tall grass all around. The
article said stargazing... but I suspect that they were actually doing
some geocaching. Which means, if I'm correct, that their deaths were
the result of a deadly prank.
Kris Baker
"Hedera Helix" <ass...@quantico.mailtmp.com> wrote in message
news:92426532-fefa-4004...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
--------------------------------------------
THAT makes more sense than anything else I've heard (IF they
had a GPS with them, that is).
Or, as I've suspected, some sort of activity (sexual, drugs) that
you'd want to do out in the boonies in such a conservative area.
Kris
Peter Tuck
> On Nov 4, 2:47 pm, Slow Motion Apocalypse
> They were driving on a path that led them directly into the stock
> pond. This was at night and there was tall grass all around. The
> article said stargazing... but I suspect that they were actually doing
> some geocaching. Which means, if I'm correct, that their deaths were
> the result of a deadly prank
How did you arrive at this conclusion?
JonesieCat
"Peter Tuck" <peter...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b3dedd4f-63d8-4d44...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
----
What is geocaching?
jc
Poe
You hide something at a location you make note of in your GPS, like a
container with little toys and a log book - or sometimes a little film
container and a tiny log book (and there are other variations). Post the
GPS coordinates on a site like geocaching.com, then others go there,
find it, sign the log, maybe take and/or leave a little toy. In the end
often you post on the geocaching site that you found it with comments,
like the condition it was in, etc. Google Maps will show caches, as will
a few other places besides geocaching.com, but usually for the best
caches you need a login and at least in geocaching.com, it's like $30 a
year (IOW, members are traceable). I don't think that's the deal here,
though. Once you get really close to a cache you don't drive, you start
walking N/S/E/W to the exact location, which end up being a food this
way, 2 feet that way, buried under some sticks. Plus, who would take the
risk posting a deadly location. I guess it's possible, but I don't think
that's what happened.
JonesieCat
"Poe" <hau...@terrible-thought.com> wrote in message
news:7mtqr3F...@mid.individual.net...
That sounds fun. What a horrible thing if someone had done this on purpose,
as a prank. Though they did, possibly they wouldn't think people would go
out looking in the dark?
Yep, the mysterious part is why the girls were out in the middle of no where
like that.
jc
Poe
It's very fun. It adds another dimension to hiking and camping, is an
offshoot of orienteering IMO. It is fun with kids, too, and it learns
'em how to use a GPS.
Alison MacIntyre
> "Poe" <haun...@terrible-thought.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7mtqr3F...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > JonesieCat wrote:
> >> "Peter Tuck" <petertuc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I'll bet THIS individual is into geocaching... http://www.stargazing.com/
I went and took a gander... and it's not quite in the middle of
nowhere. The path they took veered NE off the main driveway that heads
north into the farmyard about a 1/4 mile or so up the road. A
satellite photo shows that the path they drove goes right to the edge
of the stock pond. So at night, with tall grass all around it, there
would be no way of knowing how dangerously close you were actually
getting to that body of water. I don't own any GPS devices, but
according to a friend, GPS will show even small bodies of water...
even a stock pond.
JonesieCat
----------
So if they were using GPS, they ought to have know they were heading to
water? Does it make a difference which sort of setting they had it on? I
mean, would the type of graphics make a difference in terms of identifying
what they were looking at?
jc
Poe
It depends on the maps you have on your GPS. If you don't have something
detailed, you won't see many things like roads or small bodies of ( or
in :-P ) water.
Alison MacIntyre
> "Alison MacIntyre" <chattan_silverm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
This link shows different types of Garmin GPS maps. Obviously the
colored ones are easier to distinguish water on.
http://abovethetimber.com/Screenshots.htm#Garmin Nuvi 660
earthage
Joseph Duncan (JED) was into geocaching.
realpch
<snip>
> I went and took a gander... and it's not quite in the middle of
> nowhere. The path they took veered NE off the main driveway that heads
> north into the farmyard about a 1/4 mile or so up the road. A
> satellite photo shows that the path they drove goes right to the edge
> of the stock pond. So at night, with tall grass all around it, there
> would be no way of knowing how dangerously close you were actually
> getting to that body of water. I don't own any GPS devices, but
> according to a friend, GPS will show even small bodies of water...
> even a stock pond.
I was reading today about the death of Jessica Savitch. Apparently when
the car she was riding in went off the road into a body of water, it
landed upside down and sank into the mud, so the doors could not be
opened. Might have happened here, though no reports mentioned it.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Kris Baker
"realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4B09EBA2...@aol.com...
> Alison MacIntyre wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I went and took a gander... and it's not quite in the middle of
>> nowhere. The path they took veered NE off the main driveway that heads
>> north into the farmyard about a 1/4 mile or so up the road. A
>> satellite photo shows that the path they drove goes right to the edge
>> of the stock pond. So at night, with tall grass all around it, there
>> would be no way of knowing how dangerously close you were actually
>> getting to that body of water. I don't own any GPS devices, but
>> according to a friend, GPS will show even small bodies of water...
>> even a stock pond.
>
> I was reading today about the death of Jessica Savitch. Apparently when
> the car she was riding in went off the road into a body of water, it
> landed upside down and sank into the mud, so the doors could not be
> opened. Might have happened here, though no reports mentioned it.
>
> Peach
The back window was smashed, and apparently, water poured in.
Unfortunately, they didn't realize that the water itself was only four
feet deep, and if they'd kept calm until the car filled with water,
they could have got out the back window OR rolled one of the
side windows down.
Kris
Peter Tuck
> "realpch" <real...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
it would depend on how cold the water was
its hard to move around in icy cold water
Chocolic
"earthage" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:848912c4-97a6-4a50...@p28g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
Isn't that how they were able to trace his whereabouts on other crimes?
That is one guy that really gives me the shivers.
Chocolic
Nancy Rudins
> In Message-ID:<nvkOm.56820$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au> posted on Mon,
> 23 Nov 2009 00:16:19 GMT, JonesieCat wrote: Begin
>> So if they were using GPS, they ought to have know they were heading to
>> water? Does it make a difference which sort of setting they had it on? I
>> mean, would the type of graphics make a difference in terms of identifying
>> what they were looking at?
>
> some trail hiking software might show remote ponds whereas city navigation
> software might not have those details.
Around here several years ago, we had a professor who died
in a similar way. He was heading for someone's home out
in the countryside area. He was unfamiliar with his
surroundings and there are really very few landmarks.
He made a wrong turn into someone's yard and drove into
a normally shallow pond that had run over its banks due
to recent heavy rainfall. He was found several days later
in the water-filled car, clutching his car keys in his
hand. It really was just a tragic accident that happened
to someone who thought he was turning onto a road but
ended up in a pond instead.
Nancy
--
Illinois: where our governors make our license plates.
nru...@att.net
Poe
> In Message-ID:<7mtqr3F...@mid.individual.net> posted on Sun, 22 Nov 2009
> 17:04:18 -0500, Poe wrote: Begin
> what has come to be known today as geocaching, which is merely a high tech
> variation of the old sport of orienteering, where a target object (sometimes UV
> fluorescent) was placed and a bearing and distance vector from one of our
> benchmarks was given. Using the GPS, topo maps, and an UV light source, it was a
> challenge to find. We didn't swap anything as the later developed sport of
> geocaching does, but simply radioed the find to the group, retrieved the target,
> and met for a rendezvous for some social BSing. To make it interesting, we
> established our own local grid reference instead of the common WGS84 and had to
> convert positions. It got more interesting when done in an environment where
> night vision was required so as to not be detected by any on duty security
> types. Of course the USBP used the same type IR position indicating devices
> (fireflys) as we did so we had to avoid any near border zones lest any issues
> develop.
I did some orienteering a looonnnggg time ago - we had a club at work
who got together periodically. It was fun, more challenging than
geocaching. Not as fancy as the sounds of what you did, though! I
remember things like a course where you needed to find each point, and
then make note of something written on it to prove you'd found it. In
the end of one I could have mailed my results in for a badge, but I was
a little old to earn boyscout badges by then.
Poe
> In Message-ID:<7mvkmlF...@mid.individual.net> posted on Mon, 23 Nov 2009
> 09:31:48 -0500, Poe wrote: Begin
> Balboa park, picked one of the attractive coeds, checked out the map, and since
> I was very familiar with the park, showed her shortcuts to all the points where
> they had punches placed. She finished in the shortest time.
> Moral of the exercise - sometimes the natives can be very helpful <g>
So helpful, and being such a gentleman, I bet you let her walk ahead of
you up all the hills :-)
M
> "Peter Tuck" <petertuc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Another alternative: there is s port of going to intersections of
longitudinal and latitude line. I thnk people do it won to the
"minute" (1/60 of a degree) If they were doing that, the goal might
have been, unbeknown to them, in the middle of the water.
It sould like the path they were on lead straight to the water, so
maybe they were just following it and thought there was a puddle on
the raod - or a peice of blacktop.
Mick
realpch
Ah, I missed that point. Poor girls.
Kris Baker
I was answering your post where you mentioned Jessica Savitch.
The driver in the Savitch case was male ;)
Kris
JonesieCat
"Kris Baker" <paralle...@ggmail.com> wrote in message
news:7n0540F...@mid.individual.net...
IIRC Savitch was quite afraid of water and didn't swim, which likely
contributed to her reluctance to get out of the car. And like you say she
didn't know it was only 4 ft deep. She drowned along with her beloved dog.
jc
Kris Baker
"JonesieCat" <jonesi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12DOm.57007$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Yeah. She was fascinating, and I read both books published
after her death. Talented, but sketchy.
It's common now for women to be news anchors, but she was a
real pacesetter. I can't believe it's been 26 years since she died.
Kris