--
"Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify
the hunters."
African Proverb
>How is the Vision Going? I am still on fence about how deep it will go. What
>are you experiencing with yours?
>Thanks,
>Jim
Hi Jim,
Yesterday I did a little testing/comparing in the back yard "coin
bed".
I run the F75 pretty much maxed out for depth and forgo trying to get
super accurate discrimination. I learned I can't really trust what the
machine tells me no matter what I do. Depth and soil conditions play
heck with discrimination. Unless it is obvious iron trash like a long
narrow nail or piece of old fence wire, I dig it. This past summer, I
would have missed a nice pewter button as it was deep and gave me a
reading of around 12 or so which is getting near the iron range. A lot
of lead musket balls come in around 12 to 40 on the F75, once again
depending on the ground minerals and depth.
One thing to bear in mind is the places I hunt tend to have more than
their share of hot rocks and ground mineralization so ground
conditions are far from ideal. I also have to deal with a lot of
underbrush and other small plants and tiny new trees. A forest floor
is far from a freshly cut lawn and banging the coil into the brush
inevitably triggers a signal with almost every detector I have ever
used. The first Whites Coin V VLF machines were horrid when trying to
use them when the underbush leaves were water covered from the morning
dew or a previous day's rain. Thankfully they are now much less
susceptible to the water on the leaves but they do sound off when you
bump them into the brush or stalks of plants.
Comparing the 2 machines was kind of interesting. I can't say one way
or another if the Vision can absolutely match or perhaps exceed the
depth of the F75 just yet. Both machines gave me some pretty darn good
depth when I pushed them beyond the factory presets. But, the back
yard ground conditions are relatively stable and not overly
mineralized. No underbrush to contend with either.
Going into the field is going to be a whole nother animal.
I did notice the recovery time after a target is swept over seems much
slower on the Vision than the F75. I have a couple of coins buried
maybe 6 or 8 inches apart. The F75 has no problems separating them
with a solid sound for each. The Vision consistently gave me a single
sound when passing over both with a single sweep. However when I
turned 90 degrees and swept them one at a time I could easily find
them both.
The main feature I really like on the Vision is the Analyze screen.
That screen sure tells me a lot. I think if anything I like most
(aside from the wireless headphones) is that screen. I can easily see
that becoming my favorite tool if it works as well in the field as it
did in my back yard.
Pushing either machine to maximum depth has a unique set of problems.
When you push them up, the ground chatter increases. For me, that
isn't as big an issue as it might be for others. I started hunting
with the old TR type detectors (even had a WW2 vacuum tube type mine
detector that would find a nail at 2 feet and miss a penny at 3
inches:) Talk about ridiculously heavy and cumbersome:) Shortly after
that experience I bought my first Whites. Whoaa, what a change of life
that was:)
The TR types were my favorites (I use BFO's too) but you really had to
work at it to get any real depth and that didn't even come close to
the depth of the cheapest VLF's of today. But the one thing I got used
to was ground chatter and picking out a target from all that noise.
That only came from countless hours using the detector and digging a
lot of empty holes. Fortunately, that old experience lets me push the
detector sensitivity up without losing track of real targets.
I don't know how this fits in between comparing the F75 and the Vision
but I should mention I have a Minelab SD2100 and an SD2200D. Those
machines are gosh awful heavy but there is one really nice thing about
them. When you hear a target sound (there is a constant tinkling type
of background noise but unlike a target sound), there is absolutely
and positively a target there. I don't remember ever having a "false"
target tone. However, discrimination on the SD2200D leaves much to be
desired. It only kicks in for the first several inches, beyond that,
all targets sound the same. But, I have never had to sweep a second
time to verify if what I heard on any first sweep was actually a
target. Absolutely no "falsing". For example if you get a bit careless
in sweeping and raise the coil at the end of a sweep, both the F75 and
Vision sound off with a "target sounding" like signal while the
Minelab's pretty much ignore it. They come into their own in heavily
hunted areas and can pick up the smallest of the small signals. The
reason for the F75 and Vision is for "cherry picking" sites that
haven't been hunted to death. More importantly they are so much
lighter to lug around especially when I am scouting for a site. I can
cover a lot more potential ground in a day with the F75 than I ever
could with the Minelab's. So the Minelab's are still a very useful
part of my arsenal of toys:)
OK, please forgive me. All I did was ramble on about a lot of stuff
without coming away with any conclusive answers. To tell you the
absolute truth, I too am still sitting on the fence between the Vision
and the F75. I worked up my own "program" in the Vision for relic
hunting and saved it to memory. Naturally I named it RelicHunter:) I
spent a lot of time reading and rereading the manual and made a lot of
tweaks to just about everything I could to push it for depth and a
pleasant tonal range that is better suited to my hearing.
If I can get out Sunday like I plan, that will be the first "real"
test of the machine. I am sure I'll end up making more tweaks in the
field.
Download the V3 owners guide from the Whites website
http://whiteselectronics.com/v3.html and have a look at pages 48 - 51.
When you read what each of the different settings do, you end up
changing them just to see what the effect is:) It is also kind of mind
blowing with all of the different things you can play with.
Just got off the phone with my wife. Since the weather up this way has
been relatively dry, I am not sure what the river level will be like
getting to the site I want to hunt this next time out. We just decided
to take a little afternoon drive and check out the river level there
today. I think I'll "forget" to bring my cell phone along:) The kayak
is still on the roof of my car so all I have to do is throw the
detector in the car come Sunday. If I don't find anything with the
detector, I can always sneak in a little fishing in the river:)
Again, sorry for the long winded post. I am cursed with the inability
to abbreviate or condense anything I write. When I write a short
engineering document, I start off intending to write no more than 10
pages and end up with 50 or more pages. At least they are a little
more coherent since I am not just simply typing off the top of my head
and sticking in anything that pops into mind at that second:)
I'll let you know what the river looks like this evening.
Warmest Regards,
Relichunter
Checked out the river and the level is fine for kayaking. I didn't
want to do another 10 mile stretch of dragging the darn thing.
So Sunday will be the first real relic hunt with the Whites Vision.
Warmest Regards,
Relichunter
"Relichunter" <relichunter@treasurehuntingstuff_^_.com> wrote in message
news:h29sf5lb88n5ep9kc...@4ax.com...
Oooh, that does hurt. That's one of my constant worries when I pack
the detectors up for transport in the kayak or by bicycle. I kind of
stuff them into a backpack for the bike and a dry sack for the kayak.
That trigger button is the weakest mechanical link.
Yeah, I use a dry sack (now) when on the water. Years ago I was using
a canoe to get to a hunting site. I was sitting in the back as I had
a small weed whacker type gasoline powered outboard attached to it. I
was trying to paddle myself back toward a fairly steep shoreline so I
could hop off the back of the canoe.
I decided to try going in right next to a fallen tree so I could use
the branches that weren't underwater to sort of pull myself backward
to shore.
As you could imagine, I reached just a little too far to the side to
grab one of those tree branches and amazed myself just how easily I
flipped the canoe over and went for a swim. The old Minelab Sovereign
didn't take too kindly to it and it ended up out for a couple weeks
for repairs. Those were a long couple weeks.
I like the ergonomic shape of the F75 and even the Vision but I sure
wish I could break them down into smaller pieces for transport. I
would love to be able to remove the display head and trigger switch
for better and safer packing.
Ahh, another of the not so fond but memorable experiences in life:)
Warmest Regards,
Relichunter
Rats, talk about bad luck for both of us. I was playing with the
detector this evening and noticed the 2 halves of the display unit
were very loose. A little checking on the Internet and I learned this
was a common problem with the earlier models, they over tightened the
4 screws holding the 2 halves together (with the waterproof seal in
between) and broke the plastic back. I took a bit of clear "shipping"
tape and taped it up so I could use it tomorrow.
Then I sent an E-mail off to find out how to get it repaired. I bought
this unit from another fellow this past summer because it was a
bargain I couldn't resist. I hope White's will honor the warranty.
Guess I should get the software upgrade too.
So, even if my Vision turns out to be greater than sliced bread, mine
will be out for repairs soon too. Yeah, that heart sick feeling is
hitting me too. A new strain of H1N1 going around to us guys that play
in the dirt?
Warmest Regards,
Relichunter
I played with a V3 all day today and I know one thing, I'll need more time.
My inexperience cost me a silver quarter for sure. I do like the analyze
mode very much and can see characterizing targets with it and get a real
good feel for what I am looking at. Especially when two targets are close
you can see two distinctive humps with the vitals showing. The guy that
owned it setup a coin & jewelry mode but response time sucked. Real slow on
recovery. Hunted about two and half hours like that cussing it all the time.
Finally mentioned it was kicking my butt and John mentioned that response
time is programmable! Changed it for use for about and hour and I was much
more comfortable. Depth still do not know is V3 any deeper than my xlt.
BTW I fixed my xlt this evening! Yea! Took apart the "bad" one and got it's
switch so I feel better now!
JN
>How is the Vision Going? I am still on fence about how deep it will go. What
>are you experiencing with yours?
>Thanks,
>Jim
Hi Jim,
I did get out Sunday for a bit of relic hunting. Nice weather, not too
warm by any means so was able to spend a fair amount of time at it
without suffering from heat stroke:)
To put it briefly, I too am still on the fence as far as depth
penetration goes. I'll say that up front so you and many others won't
have to suffer through the rest of my post.
Got to the launch site around 7:30AM. Put the kayak in and spent maybe
30 minutes getting to the hunting site. By then, it was getting on
9:30AM.
The area I was hunting extends around a 1/2~3/4 miles along a river
with localized sites scattered between where things can be found. The
localized sites are unevenly spaced along that stretch, each localized
site being an area around 500'x500' to as small as maybe 100'x100'.
I had worked this area for a number of years and have maybe a couple 5
gallon bucketfuls of relics from there.
I started out hunting an area where I had previously found some nice
stuff. I didn't pick up anything there. Not so much as a shotgun shell
base. I should note this was one of the spots I scrubbed previously
with a Minelab SD detector.
I moved to another spot maybe a 1/4 mile away on a hunch (it was an
area of high ground with a spring rivulet running in a steep ravine
next to it) that I had overlooked in my previous hunts of the area. It
is a lot easier to spot potential spots when the leaves have fallen
from the trees.
I picked up a lot of larger pieces (flintlock hammer, knife blades,
about a dozen smaller caliber musketballs, cut brass kettle
pieces,miscellaneous unidentified iron pieces (maybe broken cast iron
kettle pieces) and a couple cut brass arrowhead). Didn't find any
trade silver which I always hope to find on sites like this one.
All in all it was a very good day. The ground was a relatively hard
packed sandy soil.
Nothing I found was more than maybe 4" to 6" deep. The brass
arrowheads were almost on the surface.
I was hunting with the coil fairly high off of the ground surface
because of all the autumn leaf fall cover and a good amount of small
dead weeds and grasses. After I kicked away the autumn leaf cover to
get the coil closer to the ground, the signal strength increased
significantly. The inverse-square law effect we have all come to know.
In short, since the targets I was hitting were relatively shallow, I
tended to cherry pick the area and try to determine its extents with
the intention of returning to literally "scrub" every inch of ground.
It did give me a bit of an idea that the detector has some very good
depth possibilities particularly in better hunting conditions (or in
this area, taking it slower and concentrating on keeping the loop as
close to the ground as I could at all times). This trip I tended to
hold the loop much higher than one would reasonably expect compared to
say a grass covered park or old church lawn so I could cover more
ground with the time I had available to me. Every signal was solid
relative to its size. I am kind of basing that on years and years of
hunting in similar conditions for similar relics.
Musketballs tend to be a good indicator of a detectors depth
capability. A .69 caliber Brown Bess musketball is about the same
diameter as a dime. The Native American trade rifles and French issued
muskets were a smaller caliber so are of diameters less than a dime.
Getting a solid hit at 8"~10" or so (including the distance the loop
must be held above the ground) is usually a pretty good indicator of
superb depth penetration. I know I hit some of the musketballs
(smaller than dime size) at near 10" total distance (loop height above
ground and though ground combined) so that gave me a lot of confidence
in the depth capability of the machine.
I did pick up a number of old 30-30 through larger caliber rifle slugs
that must have missed their intended whitetail target. Some .22
calibers from someone doing some plinking, and the inevitable shotgun
shell brass scattered about. The old 30-30 rifle cartridge brass and
shotgun shell bases sounded off really strong. It made me hope I had
found one of those elusive rare pieces:) I pretty quickly got to the
point of identifying a shotgun shell base just by the sound and could
literally kick them out of the ground.
Since I was hunting for relics, iron is something I normally dig. I
did get fooled a bit pinpointing some hand made nails (but I still
will take them as relics). They proved to be a little harder to
pinpoint which seems to be the norm for all detectors (you often find
the tip of the nail at the side of the hole). I have got to get a
decent pinpointer for those occasions. The larger stock coil seems to
make them more difficult to pinpoint. I am seriously considering
ordering a smaller loop for this type of hunting.
The wireless headphones were a blessing in some of the thickets I went
through. Normally I would have snagged the headphone cord a dozen
times and pulled them off of my head. If anyone does decide to buy
one, I strongly recommend shelling out the extra bucks for the
headphones.
So to sum it up, I do like the machine a lot. I think it has a lot of
"untapped" potential that I have to learn to use. That part will take
some time and practice. The factory presets seem to be pretty short of
what the machine can do if someone has a bit of experience with a
detector and pushes it a little. To me, they were a decent starting
point.
I used the NiMH battery and it held up fine for the 5 or so hours I
used it (getting older so more rest breaks:) The shorter days this
time of year combined with the time it took to unload the kayak, get
to the site, unpack, hunt, and get back and load up before the sun
went down sure cuts into the field time.
All in all, it seems like a pretty darn good machine. After this past
outing I'll take it on more hunts and get some more practice with it.
I can't really rate its depth capabilities based on my limited
experience (I am comparing it to the F75 that I am experienced with
and a field depth comparison based on such a limited amount of time
with the machine would surely be wrong).
I really like the "analyze mode". Since I hunt "all metal" I was able
to use the analyze mode and VCO tone ID to pretty much accurately pick
out any piece of iron or non ferrous target very easily. But I should
mention this was not a high trash area by any means. Targets were in
general scarce.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this detector to a friend. It is
pricey though so that is a consideration.
Well, that's it for now. Best of wishes to all.
Warmest Regards,
Relichunter
Thanks Relic for all the great info!
Man it would really suck to turn over in anything in the water, but
the worse thing would be it happen and have no dry clothes. I did fall
in the water my self during the winter once and thankfully I was near
my house.
snipped for brevity
>>
>A wonderful report. I used one Sunday on a private house built in the late
>20s. I did find some coins and loads of tabs but I did miss a 42 Quarter. So
>I went home and fixed my XLT! LOL I would need to spend hours, like any
>detector, before I felt comfortable with the V3. So I'll hope I get a deal
>like yours sometime in the future before I change. Thanks for your time and
>stories, love them.
>Jim
>>
Hi Jim,
I am very happy to hear you fixed the trigger switch on your XLT. I
too have an older XLT and like the machine a lot. It took me a fair
bit of playing time to get used to that XLT when I first bought it. In
particular the gain settings. I kind of used that past experience to
tweak the gains in the V3.
Thanks for the fib about enjoying my stories. It takes genuine
fortitude to get through my ramblings:)
On another topic, pin pointers: I forgot to mention I was going to try
one of those el cheap Harbor Freight jobs for something like $19.95. I
stopped at the local store but they were sold out.
Normally I don't waste money on cheap tools. I once bought an
electronic dial caliper from Harbor Freight. Yeah, it measured things
OK (as far as I could tell) but the darn thing wouldn't turn off. So
within a few months, the battery was dead. I replaced it with a more
expensive Mitutoyo and it has performed flawlessly for the last couple
years. Though I have a passion for Starret equipment, the prices on
Starret are "through the roof" anymore. A simple everyday type
combination square was over $80. Analog meter type 12" calipers top
$120.
Made my annual "pilgrimage" to the "great" tool sale yesterday. 3 of
us guys get together every year and go to a once a year tool sale in
Hartville, Ohio, then follow that up with a long lunch at the
Hartville Restaurant:) They have all the manufacturer's reps and it is
always an education on the latest and greatest toys available to tool
junkies like us. For the last 3 years, each one of us has scored 1st,
2nd, and 3rd in the amount of money we spent. This year I was low man.
Made my wife happy:)
Back to detecting. It is getting a bit cooler up here in Ohio. I just
learned I don't have to give anyone any "scheduled" help (the economy
is still in the dumps) until the first week before Christmas week.
So I told the wife "Let's go on vacation". The wife and I are a bit
different in that regard. I can pick up and go just about anywhere at
any time without having second thoughts. Maybe because in my working
career I have traveled to many places in the world on business. India,
Japan, UK, France (the Eiffel Tower is amazing but a tad scary at the
top:), Mexico, South Korea, Germany, the Ukraine, China, and many more
places. I have also seen poverty that breaks a man's heart.
My wife has to have a "plan" made weeks in advance. Heck, once I was
told on a Friday afternoon to be on a plane to France (for a 4 week
stint) the following Sunday morning. My wife has to plan a trip to the
local Mall two day before hand.
So today, I have to come up with a "plan" to suit my wife that allows
me to get some detecting time in. Been to Florida too many times and
she thinks Arizona is too far to drive (there are some open range Gold
prospecting areas there not far from Flagstaff if I recall when I was
out that way last). I was kind of thinking maybe Oklahoma. I spent a
summer there near Tulsa a few years ago and discovered there are a lot
of unhunted Civil War sites around. (didn't bring a detector since I
was working 12~14 hours a day 7 days a week).
Maybe I can talk her into a trip to Tennessee and the Carolina's. Once
I get her packed into the car, she'll have to follow along, even if
the car heads west towards Arizona:)
Well, I can dream anyway........... We have our first Grandson (6
months old) and it is going to be tough to drag my wife away from him
for a couple weeks.
So that's the latest from my end. Anyone else doing anything fun?
Warmest Regards,
Relichunter
Our club is going to be in our first parade the 4th, a Christmas Lights
parade. I suggested it and we'll build the thing Tuesday before the parade.
LOL Me and my big mouth. I designed the float today and made some drawings.
It will have prospecting in front and metal detecting in back of the 22 ft
trailer. I had some banners made that advertises our club and website. So we
should do some good in getting our message out. We added "Recovery Team" for
helping locate lost metal items and I'll put out news release after
Thanksgiving. Kind of a dull news period before all the Christmas stories
and empty stocking tales.
Been Deer hunting almost daily for a couple weeks and nary a hair been seen
but them thieving varmints are eating the grain and corn every night. I got
some good pictures of a couple nice bucks and a good sized doe as well. Benn
about 7-8 total to the camera but none in legal shooting hours. But one of
them will slip up and I'll get us some winter meat.
Detecting has been spotty since I got a lung infection last month but I had
a couple good outings and added a transit token from New York, about the
size of a quarter, that dates back to teens and twenties, a merc, two rosies
and lots of wheat's. Those came on private homes in a teens to 30s
residential area near down town. I missed a '46 quarter but my hunting
partner nailed it LOL We do have fun out there.
Happy Thanksgiving and good hunting my friend.
Jim
Hey Celtic that is great news about the parade. You should probably
try to get some kids involved. Just my 2 cents worth hehe.
Speaking of the dears, do you have a timer on the camera? If so maybe
you can find out about the average time they are showing up to eat out
of the garden. Then you could be setting out side waiting on them. :D
I'm also sorry to hear your having some problems with your health. I
hope things get better there so you have more time for detecting and
doing the things you love!
>> So that's the latest from my end. Anyone else doing anything fun?
>>
>> Warmest Regards,
>> Relichunter
>Hi Relic,
>I use one of those Harbor Freight detectors for a pin pointer and I use it a
>lot. I would love a Garret Pro as they are fantastic but I can buy 10 of the
>harbor freight units and can't say the Garrett would be ten times better?
Wow, thanks for that tip. I was strongly considering "ordering" one of
the so called high end types. I managed to break the one I had bought
years ago so was looking for another. Now I'll just wait until Harbor
Freight restocks.
>Our club is going to be in our first parade the 4th, a Christmas Lights
>parade. I suggested it and we'll build the thing Tuesday before the parade.
>LOL Me and my big mouth. I designed the float today and made some drawings.
>It will have prospecting in front and metal detecting in back of the 22 ft
>trailer. I had some banners made that advertises our club and website. So we
>should do some good in getting our message out. We added "Recovery Team" for
>helping locate lost metal items and I'll put out news release after
>Thanksgiving. Kind of a dull news period before all the Christmas stories
>and empty stocking tales.
Holy smokes!!!! A parade float? Wow, that surely takes the cake in my
book. You know, every person I have ever met that used a detector was
always a person of high personal character. Not so much into it for
the value of things found (though that adds a lot to the fun) but they
do it for the thrill of discovery.
I think the idea of the float is terrific. A big tip of the hat to you
and your club.
>Been Deer hunting almost daily for a couple weeks and nary a hair been seen
>but them thieving varmints are eating the grain and corn every night. I got
>some good pictures of a couple nice bucks and a good sized doe as well. Benn
>about 7-8 total to the camera but none in legal shooting hours. But one of
>them will slip up and I'll get us some winter meat.
I grew up in Western Pa. pretty much with a gun in my hand. My family
had a hunting/fishing camp in the Tionesta area (Allegheny National
Forest). I started small game and deer hunting at maybe age 12. All
thru high school and college I spent as much time as I could out in
the field. The wife finally slowed me down after we got married, then
came the kids and the responsibility of raising a family. The job came
first because I had a family to provide for.....
I had to give up some of my passions too. By then I was hooked on
detecting. No more fast motorcycles, too dangerous and irresponsible
for a young father of two. I kind of gave up game hunting and stayed
with the fishing because I could always take the wife and kids with me
fishing. Once the kids were old enough for boating we got our first
boat. A number of boats later, I still love my time on the water.
Maybe that explains the accumulation of the river kayak, 2 sea kayaks,
2 canoes, 14' aluminum V hull, the Mokai kayak, and the 24' cabin
cruiser..........How many boats are enough? Just like guns and
detectors, always just one more:)
The relic hunting took over a good part of my free time not devoted
to family.
Well, I sure am not the only one that had that part of their wings
clipped a bit by the responsibility of raising a family.......Bet a
lot of others here did too.
So... Darn it, you reminded me just how much I miss those trips for
the whitetail. Guess that explains why I have this burning desire to
go elk hunting in Alaska.
>Detecting has been spotty since I got a lung infection last month but I had
>a couple good outings and added a transit token from New York, about the
>size of a quarter, that dates back to teens and twenties, a merc, two rosies
>and lots of wheat's. Those came on private homes in a teens to 30s
>residential area near down town. I missed a '46 quarter but my hunting
>partner nailed it LOL We do have fun out there.
Sorry to hear about the lung infection. Mild Bronchitis I hope? I had
Pneumonia a couple times and it sure ain't fun, it hurts like the
devil.
Ya know, I always enjoyed finding the tokens maybe more sometimes than
the coins. Somewhere in my collection is a copper token from a drug
store of maybe around the 1920's or so. Bold as can be is a big
Swastika stamped onto it. I guess the Swastika was a "good luck" sign
before Nazi Germany took it as their standard. Merc's are always nice.
I just happen to like the looks of the coin. I put them second in
looks just after the seated liberties. Course any type of gold coin
looks better:)
>
>Happy Thanksgiving and good hunting my friend.
And a very happy Thanksgiving to you!!!
Warmest Regards,
Relichunter
The cameras time stamp the photo so I know when the little beggars' come
out. So far mostly in the late evening and early morning hours why past or
before shooting hours. Them guys are smart LOL But WT season runs until Jan
3rd this year so I have time to wait them out. The Mullies are over the 6th
on Dec so more interested in harvesting one of them first. But like coin
shooting, it isn't always a 5.00 day but always fun!
Happy T-Day to yours as well Sarge!
Jim
I think the White's unit is made by same company with modifications.
JN
Thankfully here in Georgia you can shot deers not matter the time. As
long as your on private property :D. I agree about it being lots of
fun. I just don't do much hunting. I do how ever like fishing. I would
do it every day if I had the time... :)
Is it me or is Radio Shacks stuff not as good as it use to be? I
remember hearing great things about them then I was little, but now
you beware. Just kinda weird to me.
Parts seem to be ok but lots of their overpriced gadgets don't have the
quality to match the price.
I was a manager for several years and don't miss it at all! LOL
Jim
Yeah they also seem to not have as much interesting stuff either lol.
Seems there stories are smaller now, and the people don't know as much
about what you need anymore. Well I'll stop complaining about how
things use to be and get back to talk about metal detecting. Have a
good one!
Gary