Rion Air
Buddenbrooks
A much more expensive card to have and to hold.
Neil Williams
<knights...@budweiser.com> wrote:
>Rion Air are dropping Electron in favour of Pre Paid MasterCard.
That wasn't quite what I heard. What I heard was that the banks were
dropping Electron, slowly but surely.
As the Ryanair exemption only exists so they can justify having a
credit and debit card fee, I don't think they care until it is
abolished completely. Indeed, the fewer people that can use one, the
better.
Though even with these fees, Ryanair can still be very cheap. I had a
nice trip to Muenchen via Memmingen[1] at the weekend for well under
twenty quid. And as ever, give or take about 5 minutes' delay (that
would otherwise have been spent waiting for the bus) and the tight
legroom, it was entirely satisfactory.
[1] Hint - if you're in a group of 3 or more and aren't in a hurry,
don't bother with the "Ryanair bus", get the local bus to Memmingen
and get a Bayern-Ticket (EUR 28) on the bus, which you can then use
for unlimited local rail travel throughout Bavaria off-peak or all day
at weekends, plus local transport in Muenchen itself, for all of you
up to I think a group of 5.
Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
Roland Perry
2009, Buddenbrooks <knights...@budweiser.com> remarked:
>Rion Air are dropping Electron in favour of Pre Paid MasterCard.
They've been taking a beating over Electron (on R4 consumer show on
Saturday, for example). People should be careful what they wish for.
>A much more expensive card to have and to hold.
That's like a Tuxedo Card, I suppose? Any particular brands, or all of
them?
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
Williams) wrote:
>That wasn't quite what I heard.
Though I heard it wrongly.
http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/gen-en-301109
It is true that it's a lot easier to get one, though also true that
the charges might make it not worth bothering.
"MasterCard Prepaid now FREE payment method
Ryanair, the world�s favourite airline, today (30th Nov 09) announced
that it will accept the MasterCard Prepaid card as its free form of
payment from 1st December and its Visa Electron promotion will end one
month later on 31st December. From 1st January the Visa Electron
payment card will attract a �5 administration charge while MasterCard
Prepaid will become the sole free from of payment on www.ryanair.com.
The MasterCard Prepaid card is much more widely available than Visa
Electron and can be picked up from financial institutions/ card
issuers throughout Europe (including Belgium, Ireland, Netherlands and
Portugal) and online. Ryanair will accept both MasterCard Prepaid and
Visa Electron as free forms of payment for all bookings during the
month of December.
EU Availability
Country Electron MasterCard Ppd
Austria Y Y
Belgium NO Y
Croatia Y Y
Czech Rep Y Y
Denmark Y Y
Finland Y Y
France Y Y
Germany Y Y
Hungary Y Y
Ireland NO Y
EU Availability
Country Electron MasterCard Ppd
Italy Y Y
Malta Y Y
Netherlands NO Y
Norway Y Y
Poland Y Y
Portugal NO Y
Romania Y Y
Spain Y Y
Sweden Y Y
UK Y Y
MasterCard Prepaid cards will not only provide savings on Ryanair
flights but can also be used to withdraw money from ATMs and make
retail purchases in shops and online.
To celebrate its new free payment method Ryanair will, from midnight
(24:00hrs) tonight, release 250,000 Christmas seats for just �5 each
for travel on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays in late December
which must be booked on www.ryanair.com before midnight (24:00hrs)
Thursday (3rd Dec).
Ryanair�s Stephen McNamara said:
�We are pleased to announce our new partnership with MasterCard which
will enable consumers to save even more when travelling on Ryanair�s
unbeatable low fares. MasterCard Prepaid Cards are widely available
across Europe from financial institutions and online.
�Passengers can use their MasterCard Prepaid Cards to pay for Ryanair
flights from 1st December, while our Visa Electron promotion comes to
an end on 31st December. Bookings made with Visa Electron from 1st
January will be subject to a �5 administration charge. Ryanair
encourages all passengers to sign up to the widely available
MasterCard Prepaid so that they can continue to snap up unbeatable
fares such as the 250,000 �5 Christmas seats which are available on
over 500 routes until Thursday.�"
Buddenbrooks
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rLYqbbPf...@perry.co.uk...
>
> That's like a Tuxedo Card, I suppose? Any particular brands, or all of
> them?
> --
It would appear to be any. None will be as cheap as Electron. although
cheaper than paying the credit card usage fee.
Buddenbrooks
"Neil Williams" <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4b1427de....@news.individual.net...
> That wasn't quite what I heard. What I heard was that the banks were
> dropping Electron, slowly but surely.
I suspect what you saw was BBC news saying that Abbey was dropping it under
an unsubstantiated headline that it was being phased out.
Followed by another go at Ryan Air. There seemed little reason to mention
Ryan Air. The card came into existence for reasons that had nothing to do
with Ryan Air.
I guess that someone at the BBC must have had to travel Ryan Air when BA
first was full.
Roland Perry
>>of them?
>
>cheaper than paying the credit card usage fee.
Won't that depend a bit on the fare, and which card?
The last Easyjet flight I took cost �250 [5hrs each way, so not bad
value], which would cost �7.50 in charges on a Tuxedo, for example. If
that had been a family trip for four, �30.
The charges vary quite considerably (if you've got a card for occasional
airline use, watch out for monthly fees):
http://www.what-prepaid-card.co.uk/features/compare-cards-prepaid.html
The other problem wit using a pre-pay card for airline tickets is you
have you have to top it up with whatever amount you predict you might
want to spend, which is kinda backwards given you are buying online
*now* and topping up at a physical outlet somewhere.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>under an unsubstantiated headline that it was being phased out.
The fact that Abbey were stopping issuing Electron cards was part of the
R4 consumer show story on Saturday.
It was in the context of complaints about the Ryanair "admin charge" for
using cards, and they went through all the different payment kinds (eg
debit card versus CC), and the commission that Ryanair would actually be
charged by the banks, and accused them of making an excessive 'markup'
on those costs.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
30 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:
>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:50:49 -0000, "Buddenbrooks"
><knights...@budweiser.com> wrote:
>
>>Rion Air are dropping Electron in favour of Pre Paid MasterCard.
>
>That wasn't quite what I heard.
The news items say Ryanair is dropping the Electron "promotion" from 1st
Jan.
>What I heard was that the banks were dropping Electron, slowly but
>surely.
And people have been niggling away at Ryanair about that, so now they've
changed horses.
>As the Ryanair exemption only exists so they can justify having a
>credit and debit card fee, I don't think they care until it is
>abolished completely.
They obviously do care, because they've swapped. I wouldn't be surprised
if the bashing they got this weekend was the last straw.
>Indeed, the fewer people that can use one, the better.
But now that's been "exposed" for the Nth time, they have to move on.
>Though even with these fees, Ryanair can still be very cheap. I had a
>nice trip to Muenchen via Memmingen[1] at the weekend for well under
>twenty quid.
Very true - if you look at the total price, and don't fret too much
about the components, they are still a cheap way to fly.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>Ryanair encourages all passengers to sign up to the widely available
>MasterCard Prepaid so that they can continue to snap up unbeatable
>fares such as the 250,000 €5 Christmas seats which are available on
>over 500 routes until Thursday.”"
Can you really obtain a prepay card in as little as 3 days?
--
Roland Perry
tim....
"Buddenbrooks" <knights...@budweiser.com> wrote in message
news:OnWQm.1255$lV2....@newsfe18.ams2...
Only if you fly about 20 times per year with Ryanair. It seems impossible
to have one of these cards without racking up substantial fees.
tim
tim....
> In message <4b142a65....@news.individual.net>, at 20:28:14 on Mon,
> 30 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:
>
>>Ryanair encourages all passengers to sign up to the widely available
>>MasterCard Prepaid so that they can continue to snap up unbeatable fares
>
> Can you really obtain a prepay card in as little as 3 days?
I imagine that you can
subject to the Royal mail not being on strike ;-)
tim
tim....
> In message <4b1427de....@news.individual.net>, at 20:19:29 on Mon,
> 30 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:
>>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:50:49 -0000, "Buddenbrooks"
>><knights...@budweiser.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Rion Air are dropping Electron in favour of Pre Paid MasterCard.
>>
>>That wasn't quite what I heard.
>
> The news items say Ryanair is dropping the Electron "promotion" from 1st
> Jan.
>
>>What I heard was that the banks were dropping Electron, slowly but surely.
>
> And people have been niggling away at Ryanair about that, so now they've
> changed horses.
>
>>As the Ryanair exemption only exists so they can justify having a
>>credit and debit card fee, I don't think they care until it is
>>abolished completely.
>
> They obviously do care, because they've swapped. I wouldn't be surprised
> if the bashing they got this weekend was the last straw.
Eh!?
Molly doesn't care about the bashing, he thrives upon it.
He cares because too many people have gone out and got Electron cards simply
to book their Ryanair flights with no card processing fee, costing him
money.
So he's switching to a card that costs real money to have so that it is
(almost) never going to be cost effective to own one just to book your
Ryanair flights
(and in case it's not obvious, he has to have a free card so that he doesn't
have to include the card fee in his headline price)
tim
Roland Perry
Dec 2009, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>Molly doesn't care about the bashing, he thrives upon it.
>
>He cares because too many people have gone out and got Electron cards simply
>to book their Ryanair flights with no card processing fee, costing him
>money.
I'm not quite that cynical. They seemed to be quite proud that 30% of
bookings used the otherwise rare Electron Card, as an excuse to cream
the other 70%. If the percentage of pre-pay cards falls much below that,
they'll have a harder time justifying the pricing structure.
(As an aside, can you pay cash if you go to an airport and buy a ticket
from their sales counter - or do they not accept regular bookings?)
>So he's switching to a card that costs real money to have so that it is
>(almost) never going to be cost effective to own one just to book your
>Ryanair flights
>
>(and in case it's not obvious, he has to have a free card so that he doesn't
>have to include the card fee in his headline price)
Yes, I know.
--
Roland Perry
tim....
> In message <7nkkrkF...@mid.individual.net>, at 13:42:23 on Tue, 1 Dec
> 2009, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>Molly doesn't care about the bashing, he thrives upon it.
>>
>>He cares because too many people have gone out and got Electron cards
>>simply
>>to book their Ryanair flights with no card processing fee, costing him
>>money.
>
> I'm not quite that cynical. They seemed to be quite proud that 30% of
> bookings used the otherwise rare Electron Card, as an excuse to cream the
> other 70%. If the percentage of pre-pay cards falls much below that,
> they'll have a harder time justifying the pricing structure.
>
> (As an aside, can you pay cash if you go to an airport and buy a ticket
> from their sales counter - or do they not accept regular bookings?)
only if you want to pay more for the actual fare
tim
tim....
> In message <7nkkrkF...@mid.individual.net>, at 13:42:23 on Tue, 1 Dec
> 2009, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>Molly doesn't care about the bashing, he thrives upon it.
>>
>>He cares because too many people have gone out and got Electron cards
>>simply
>>to book their Ryanair flights with no card processing fee, costing him
>>money.
>
> I'm not quite that cynical.
Oh come on.
This Michael O'Leary we're talking about, not Mother Teresa
tim
Buddenbrooks
> In message <RtWQm.1256$lV2....@newsfe18.ams2>, at 21:06:51 on Mon, 30
> R4 consumer show story on Saturday.
>
> It was in the context of complaints about the Ryanair "admin charge" for
> using cards, and they went through all the different payment kinds (eg
> debit card versus CC), and the commission that Ryanair would actually be
> charged by the banks, and accused them of making an excessive 'markup' on
> those costs.
But they keep banging on about it and never mention it also applies to
easy met.
They also incorrectly keep stating that it is an available card, when
there was 3 UK suppliers and
most European countries issue them. Ryan Air is a non-UK multi nation
operating company, so only 3 in the UK is not the same as 'unavailable'.
Being realistic, it has been possible to get a �1 each way trip with
RionAir by dancing around the rules. If he does go down a simplified
consolidated fee route, it will be much much more for his cheapest fare.
It is horses for courses, if I am going to pay full fare it is unlikely to
be Rion Air, for a low cost he is the way to go.
Neil Williams
<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> (As an aside, can you pay cash if you go to an airport and buy a ticket
>> from their sales counter - or do they not accept regular bookings?)
>
>only if you want to pay more for the actual fare
I believe it used to be the case that all flights were gbp299 when
bought that way, but I have no idea if that's still true.
Neil Williams
<knights...@budweiser.com> wrote:
> It is horses for courses, if I am going to pay full fare it is unlikely to
>be Rion Air, for a low cost he is the way to go.
There is that. But I did once pay him about 160 quid for a return
flight (to Salzburg, nearest I could get to Muenchen on that occasion
for a decent price as it was the Oktoberfest) and as the flight was
perfectly fine in both directions I didn't have any complaint about
it.
Indeed, on no occasion (and I've used them a good few times now) has
Ryanair ever done anything to me other than exactly what they said
they would (give or take 10 minutes here and there, which is the same
as any airline), and generally at a competitive or dirt-cheap price.
Roland Perry
1 Dec 2009, Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:
>>> (As an aside, can you pay cash if you go to an airport and buy a ticket
>>> from their sales counter - or do they not accept regular bookings?)
>>
>>only if you want to pay more for the actual fare
>
>I believe it used to be the case that all flights were gbp299 when
>bought that way, but I have no idea if that's still true.
For the last Ryanair flight I looked up (Canaries at half term) that
would be less than the online fare!
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Dec 2009, Buddenbrooks <knights...@budweiser.com> remarked:
> It is horses for courses, if I am going to pay full fare it is
>unlikely to be Rion Air, for a low cost he is the way to go.
The more that time goes by, the more I pick the carrier *simply* because
they fly the route. There is very little duplication in practice. So my
most recent flight was with Easyjet, my next one is with BMIbaby, and
the one after that'll probably be Emirates [1].
A similar approach by most flyers (although they would deny it) is
probably the reason why elasticity of demand is "surprisingly" around
20% - in other words, put fares up 100% and 80% of people continue to
fly.
It's a bit like trains, if I want to go fro London to Manchester, it's
pretty obvious that Virgin West Coast is the only sensible company.
Although if I was dead set against them I could use East Midlands Trains
via Sheffield, changing trains and taking twice as long!
[1] After that it goes a bit pearshaped, because BMIbaby have taken over
a former Easyjet route, but fly at completely the wrong time of the day;
getting me to/from the destination at lunchtime (presumably that would
have to be the day before & after my meeting).
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Dec 2009, Buddenbrooks <knights...@budweiser.com> remarked:
>easy met.
Just booked my BMIbaby ticket - headline fare was E20.06, but after bare
minimum "extras" (one bag) it came to E83.25 paying by Credit Card.
--
Roland Perry
Buddenbrooks
I have had several flights cancelled with Rion this year. One was due to
fog the others due to
schedule change. Several changes of flight time. Most of the changes to
schedule have been within a month of the flight.
In the case of the fog the flight out of Dublin 2 hours before had been
cancelled and we were released from the departure lounge 1 hour after
sveduled
departure. That is 3 hours after it was definite that our flight was never
going to happen. There was of course no effective support and I took the
train to another airport and made my own arrangements at my own cost.
The other changes have severely messed up plans which have resulted in the
non-use of prepaid hotel rooms.
I have factored in these costs and it has still been cheaper flying Rion BUT
only for pleasure trips. I would never book a business trip as I would not
trust
the flight to happen as planned.
However he is not the only airline to mess me about. A major German airline
bounced me at the airport even though all my documents were in order and I
had a
printed ticket. Due to a failure on their computer shortly after the online
booking they had not debited my bank account. Rather than invoice or
re-submit the
charge they cancelled the ticket. I was told I should have checked my bank
account and ensured the fee had been taken.
Several complaints to their customer service office resulted in no replies.
Just like Rion Air the UK agents have no authority and their German office
opens after the scheduled departure time. So when things go wrong you are on
your own.
Roland Perry
>airline bounced me at the airport even though all my documents were in
>order and I had a
>printed ticket. Due to a failure on their computer shortly after the
>online booking they had not debited my bank account.
This can also happen if a Credit Card charge is flagged as potentially
fraudulent. Apparently some airlines just cancel the booking and don't
tell you until you get to the airport - at which point you have no seat,
of course.
>Rather than invoice or re-submit the
>charge they cancelled the ticket. I was told I should have checked my
>bank account and ensured the fee had been taken.
I wonder if both theses issues can be resolved by online check-in (even
if you have paid to drop off some bags).
>Several complaints to their customer service office resulted in no replies.
This is a problem with low-cost suppliers in many industries. It's one
of the ways they keep their costs down.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
> I wonder if both theses issues can be resolved by online check-in (even
> if you have paid to drop off some bags).
I expect so. On another front, several KLM staff have told me that
checking in online is a way to ensure you won't get involuntarily
bumped from very busy flights (several people are bumped from the peak
Friday AMS-BHX and AMS-LHR flights every week).
It did work - I was never bumped in 9 months of weekly travel.
Neil
Buddenbrooks
>
> This can also happen if a Credit Card charge is flagged as potentially
> fraudulent. Apparently some airlines just cancel the booking and don't
> tell you until you get to the airport - at which point you have no seat,
> of course.
>
And as I understand it, as no money has changed hands there is no contract
so no hope of compensation.
With this airline I now pay by debit card so I can see the deduction a few
days later rather than wait for the credit card statement.
tim....
>
> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1s7dibOS...@perry.co.uk...
> >
>> This can also happen if a Credit Card charge is flagged as potentially
>> fraudulent. Apparently some airlines just cancel the booking and don't
>> tell you until you get to the airport - at which point you have no seat,
>> of course.
>>
>
> And as I understand it, as no money has changed hands there is no contract
> so no hope of compensation.
This is not correct. The passenger agreed to pay the money and had every
expectation that it would be taken. The other partly deciding not to take
it (without first repudiating the contract) does not remove the essence of
"consideration" from the contract.
tim
Roland Perry
>>potentially fraudulent. Apparently some airlines just cancel the
>>booking and don't tell you until you get to the airport - at which
>>point you have no seat, of course.
>
>And as I understand it, as no money has changed hands there is no
>contract so no hope of compensation.
I they confirmed the transaction, there's a contract. If they (in
effect) refuse to take the money, that's their problem. The right
procedure would be:
Airline gets a "maybe" from the CCC, and puts the transaction on ice.
The CCC contacts the cardholder to ask if it's a real transaction
If it's OK the CCC releases the money, then the airline can 'resubmit'
the charge.
But the airline appears to get the "maybe", and fail to tell the
customer they've turned it into a "no", and cancelled the transaction
they appeared to have confirmed. Or are the customers not in fact
getting a confirmation, because they don't know what they are missing?
>With this airline I now pay by debit card so I can see the deduction a
>few days later rather than wait for the credit card statement.
The credits cards for which I have online access will post transactions
within a few days too.
--
Roland Perry
Mizter T
On Dec 2, 8:04 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <_mdRm.27206$064.6...@newsfe17.ams2>, at 18:36:40 on Tue, 1
> Dec 2009, Buddenbrooks <knightstemp...@budweiser.com> remarked:
>
> > It is horses for courses, if I am going to pay full fare it is
> >unlikely to be Rion Air, for a low cost he is the way to go.
>
> The more that time goes by, the more I pick the carrier *simply* because
> they fly the route. There is very little duplication in practice. So my
> most recent flight was with Easyjet, my next one is with BMIbaby, and
> the one after that'll probably be Emirates [1].
>
> A similar approach by most flyers (although they would deny it) is
> probably the reason why elasticity of demand is "surprisingly" around
> 20% - in other words, put fares up 100% and 80% of people continue to
> fly.
>
> It's a bit like trains, if I want to go fro London to Manchester, it's
> pretty obvious that Virgin West Coast is the only sensible company.
> Although if I was dead set against them I could use East Midlands Trains
> via Sheffield, changing trains and taking twice as long!
Nah - London Midland to Stoke-on-Trent, then Crosscountry or Virgin on
to Manchester. Takes less than twice as long, can cost less than half
as much.