Sixbuilder story; Anyone got an hour and a Japanese to English dictionary?
Metalforce Jay
translation for the new Takara Sixbuilder release. I couldn't even
find out what the 'Devastator' version is officially called.
I fanyone knows where to find these two pieces of information, please
let me know
If anyone feels inclined to spend a few minutes translating, you can
download a scan of the Sixbuilder story here:
http://www.CosmicRust.com/j/sixbuilder_techs.gif
Thanks!
Derik Smith
are...) do you know if Sunstorm is supposed to be the gold seeker from MtMtE?
-Derik
"You have zero talent. Give up writing." -Yuki Eiri, Gravitation
"Are you just looking to become knows as the cranky, uninformed, misquote
guy?" -D.S.
Just assume that I'm talking out of my ass.
Zobovor the Towel Technician
> Hey Doug, as long as you're replying to this thread (and I assume
>you are...) do you know if Sunstorm is supposed to be the gold seeker
>from MtMtE?
If he is, he's a pretty bad representation of the character. (Not that I have
to tell *you* that, Derik. I'm just sayin', is all.)
Derik Smith
>to tell *you* that, Derik. I'm just sayin', is all.)
Right, but I just can't think of any other reasont o mix orange and GREY
on a character. They look... pretty bad together.
Douglas W. Dlin
> Hey Doug, as long as you're replying to this thread (and I assume you
> are...)
I'll try to get to the other post in a bit, but they're about to switch
around computers here, so it'll have to wait. This a quick enough
response, though, so I can sneak it in.
> do you know if Sunstorm is supposed to be the gold seeker from MtMtE?
Assuming our perception of color schemes are close enough, I'd say yes.
Here, plug this into a Google Groups Search:
Doug Dlin
apcog @ hotmail.com
Douglas W. Dlin
it, but neither can I think of a way to significantly improve on it w/o
straying too far from the original's meaning. So hear 'tis...
SIXBUILDER--WARRIOR OF MISFORTUNE!?
The appearance of Berserker SixWing had resulted in a strong sense of
impending crisis among the Cybertron Micromasters, casting sizable
doubts upon their pride as Cybertron warriors. Compelled to suffer
endlessly repeated attacks by the Destron forces, many of them were
injured, and sometimes they were even robbed of their Seiberdroid
Capsules. As the balance of power began to crumble, there awakened a
power to turn things around. This was the debut of SixBuilder!!
One nearly moonless night, the Cybertrons somehow managed to drive off a
Destron night assault, but a portion of the Seiberdroid Capsules they'd
successfully protected had received shocks in the battle and thawed out,
and once more Micromasters wakened. The six warriors took on the forms
of Earthly construction vehicles, and thus the Build Team was born.
Their combat strength rivaled even Beserker SixWing's, and their high
level of technological skill showed a remarkable impact on everything
from repairing their comrades to reinforcing their base.
On one such day, word arrived at the Cybertron base that the Destrons
were on a mission of destruction in the city. Glide and Road Police
charged onto the scene, but the Destrons had already retreated, after
which the pair discovered from testimony by the local residents that
there was a high probability it was a new Destron offensive force. Upon
returning to base and analyzing the information, they found the local
citizens had recorded some startling images.
Diego and the others called in the Build Team and pressed for a
confirmation in front of the monitor: "There's some images we want you
to see." Displayed on the monitor were Treader and Mixing engaged in
acts of destruction. Images taken from different angles showed the
other Build Team members doing the same.... The Build Team could not
conceal the astonishment on their faces. However, while their projected
selves were the same in form, they were totally different in color, with
bodies of light green hue.
Then Sireen announced in an egnimatic tone, "According to the
information from the locals, Mixing, it seems the version of you shown
in these images was calling himself Mixmaster."
Then Diego spoke: "For the moment, it doesn't appear to be a plan to
introduce fakes, but we can't read the Destrons' intentions. You should
all exercise plenty of caution." After he'd finished and the Build Team
had moved to another room, their eyes met and they nodded to one another.
At length, the Build Team found the fakes(?) with a stakeout strategy,
but could not hide their bewilderment at the enemies' total copying of
their appearances. Their minds made up, the Build Team combined, and
thus SixBuilder appeared.
However, the Destron Build Team also achieved fusion as if they were
made for it. The two giants stood face to face. Then the Destron
SixBuilder issued a warning in a demonic voice: "You cannot defeat
me--no Cybertron can. And that's because...you and I are one!!"
"!?"
"Originally, we were no more than a single Seiberdroid. We developed
only Destron minds, while you developed only Cybertron minds, yet we
were two states of the same byte. Until one of us is gone, our true
selves cannot exist," his shout came like a weapon. "Once we have
destroyed all Cybertrons, I will merge with you and return to our
original form. Until then, our battle with you must wait."
SixBuilder watched his departing enemy until he could no longer be seen.
"Will we Cybertrons and Destrons have to continue fighting forever...?"
To be continued...
Orson Christian - Sidecutter
news:3EA601E3...@texas.net...
> On Apr. 19, 2003, Metalforce Jay wrote:
> To be continued...
Oooooh. Sixtrain, anybody? :D Or something...new? Perhaps a mix of the
others, or a normal Sixwing, or even an all new toy?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/19/2003
Ethan Hammond
>
> > To be continued...
>
> Oooooh. Sixtrain, anybody? :D Or something...new? Perhaps a mix of the
> others, or a normal Sixwing, or even an all new toy?
Sixscramble, he can be combined or all random vehicles. It will be great
and can you get the rare pastel Sixscamble.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Derik Smith
>The appearance of Berserker SixWing had resulted in a strong sense of
>impending crisis among the Cybertron Micromasters, casting sizable
>doubts upon their pride as Cybertron warriors. Compelled to suffer
>endlessly repeated attacks by the Destron forces, many of them were
>injured, and sometimes they were even robbed of their Seiberdroid
>Capsules.
Interesting, the previous cliffhanger goes unresolved, and instead we skip
forward several 'episodes' in a TV show metaphor, where the status quo of that
cliffhanger has continued.
Several stasis pods stolen from the Cybertron ship, check. This was
Sixwing's mission in the previous story, IIRC.
>As the balance of power began to crumble, there awakened a
>power to turn things around. This was the debut of SixBuilder!!
>One nearly moonless night, the Cybertrons somehow managed to drive off a
>Destron night assault, but a portion of the Seiberdroid Capsules they'd
>successfully protected had received shocks in the battle and thawed out,
>and once more Micromasters wakened.
Wondering if there's any significance to 'nearly moonless' clause here.
Did you throw that in as an atmosphere-setter, or was it in the original? If
the latter, can you tell me anything about 'moonlight' in Japanese anime
conventions? I see a number of Japanese TF's draw on it as an elemental power
source.
Was 'thawed' in the original? (It's idiomatic not literal either way, but
I'm curious.)
>The six warriors took on the forms
>of Earthly construction vehicles, and thus the Build Team was born.
>Their combat strength rivaled even Beserker SixWing's, and their high
>level of technological skill showed a remarkable impact on everything
>from repairing their comrades to reinforcing their base.
Strong fighter, and their combat support abilities made a difference
overall, check.
>On one such day, word arrived at the Cybertron base that the Destrons
>were on a mission of destruction in the city. Glide and Road Police
>charged onto the scene, but the Destrons had already retreated, after
>which the pair discovered from testimony by the local residents that
>there was a high probability it was a new Destron offensive force. Upon
>returning to base and analyzing the information, they found the local
>citizens had recorded some startling images.
Holy run-on clause-based sentence Bat-Convoy! ;)
>Diego and the others called in the Build Team and pressed for a
>confirmation in front of the monitor: "There's some images we want you
>to see." Displayed on the monitor were Treader and Mixing engaged in
>acts of destruction. Images taken from different angles showed the
>other Build Team members doing the same.... The Build Team could not
>conceal the astonishment on their faces. However, while their projected
>selves were the same in form, they were totally different in color, with
>bodies of light green hue.
I thought at first that there might be some meta-point here, with Mixer
and Treader being the 2 'dark blue-green' components on the Cybertron recolor,
but they're not. Treader is the orange dump truck, black in the original toy.
So no green-green connection here.
Side note: I didn't even realize at first that Cybertron Sixbuilder was
recolored, despite the overall differences being QUITE noticeable. He's kinda
a mash of primary colors, which doesn't lend itself well to noticing which limb
is blue and whish is yellow. To impose any unified color scheme on
six-combiner molds requires a new set of 5 complimentary colors, like Destron
Sixwing's pastelsm which wil then looks VERY different.
>Then Sireen announced in an egnimatic tone, "According to the
>information from the locals, Mixing, it seems the version of you shown
>in these images was calling himself Mixmaster."
>Then Diego spoke: "For the moment, it doesn't appear to be a plan to
>introduce fakes, but we can't read the Destrons' intentions. You should
>all exercise plenty of caution."
Thank goodness, no one accuses them of being their evil green recolors. ;)
>"Originally, we were no more than a single Seiberdroid. We developed
>only Destron minds, while you developed only Cybertron minds, yet we
>were two states of the same byte.
Un huh. I know you added that byte analogy there. It's quite
distracting. Out of curiosity, what does the 'we were no more than one
Seiberdroid' say in non-prettified raw English?. The phasing is dicey, and I'd
like to know how the original Japanese concept was expressed.
>Until one of us is gone, our true
>selves cannot exist," his shout came like a weapon. "Once we have
>destroyed all Cybertrons, I will merge with you and return to our
>original form. Until then, our battle with you must wait."
>SixBuilder watched his departing enemy until he could no longer be seen.
Hrm, so the original G1 Sixbuilder (with two bright-green components) is a
result of a merging of these two blokes. Interesting. Yet all the character
names of Cybertron Sixbuilder are the same as the G1 SB, so those personalities
are probably dominant. (well, I suppose that's hand-wavable, ignore that
conjecture then.)
The thing about originally being one Seiberdroid intrigues me, since they
indicate that after merging with their Cybertron counterparts the resultant
SixBuilder gestalt will be the original form… So all 12 of them are
descended from a single entity?
I find this interesting in terms of the interpretation (Doug? Hydra)
that, in the original OC storyline, the six-combiners were 1 mind in 6 bodies.
The re-releases have clearly retconed this.
Did Devastator die in Zone? Er- die again? (I know his first death was
off-screen, probably during Masterforce in space.) He was left in a bit of a
sticky, possibly fatal wicket in Zone's pilot. Though the Constructions
survived lava before, the context make this seem much more fatal.
Hrm, I know nothing about the Zone TV magazine installments, now that I
think about it. Violenger's stock-in-trade was resurrecting Destron generals,
and the pilot seemed to have a rather high mortality rate. (3 of 8 generals?)
Did these guys get resurrected again?
'm wondering about Devastator possibly being… Devastator. (If this
whole thing is post-Zone pre Return of Convoy, which seems… simplest.)
> "Will we Cybertrons and Destrons have to continue fighting forever...?"
"Defeat- reissueing corporation reaches end of six-combiner molds! Go
now?"
This installment had much less character meat to it than the previous two.
Does anyone have the Japanese tech-specs?
Hey Hydra, WHEN exactly was Convoy corpse-jacked for Lucifer? Shortly
after his death? Just as Cybertron was exploding? The catalogs show pictures
of Skygarry finding Convoy's body in space in an Ultra Magnus style funeral
bier, was this False Convoy or True Convoy?
And as long as I'm bending your ear on the Headmasters thing, Galvatron
was in the center of the planet when it exploded. 16 episodes (or so) later he
shows up again, stepping out of a UFO. Apparently he got kidnapped by aliens
right as the planet exploded- or something. He just steps out like nothing
happened, and they never explain it.
A) That's hilarious. I love a plot device with no pretensions. "Aliens
did it!"
B) You know anything about the aliens from a non-show source I should be
aware of? I mean, other than that Galvatron was absolutely loopey when they
returned him?
Oh, and did the OC Cybertrons ever have a planet of origin listed?
Though OC was post-Convoy's return, per my understanding it wouldn't be
established that Convoy began a project to rebuild Cybertron until some G2
material….
picking brains,
-Derik
"You have zero talent. Give up writing." -Yuki Eiri, Gravitation
"Are you just looking to become known as the cranky, uninformed, misquote
Metalforce Jay
> Took a bit more than an hour and I'm not really totally satisfied with
> it, but neither can I think of a way to significantly improve on it w/o
> straying too far from the original's meaning. So hear 'tis...
Awesome!
Thanks so much Doug, I really appreciate it!
And how long did it actually take?
So I guess this means that 'Devastator' Sixbuilder's official name is
Destron
SixBuilder? Much less inspired than 'Reverse Evolution' or 'Bezerker'
but it still gets the point accross...
Doug, would you be interested in translating the bios as well?
Or has that info already been posted somewhere?
I am going to post this to my page with all credit to you Doug.
Douglas W. Dlin
> Wondering if there's any significance to 'nearly moonless' clause
>here.
I wondered that myself. I can only guess it was there to set the mood
as it certainly holds no significance anywhere else in the story.
The term used is actually "new-moon night," but that didn't feel right
in English. I wanted to say "moonless," but even a new moon is slightly visible.
> Did you throw that in as an atmosphere-setter, or was it in the
>original?
In the original, as described above. In general, my fudging for flow
doesn't involve inserting elements straight out of my imagination, but
rather strives to solidly base the resulting phrases on the original
meaning, even if it isn't as direct a translation.
> Was 'thawed' in the original? (It's idiomatic not literal either way,
> but I'm curious.)
Yes, it was, using that actual verb--"kaitoh." I was a bit nonplussed,
since I hadn't imagined the capsules using cryogenic technology at all,
and I'd not seen the verb used figuratively in Japanese.
> Holy run-on clause-based sentence Bat-Convoy! ;)
Hey, that may have rambled a bit, but run-on it was not. :-) In
retrospect, I probably could've had it read better if I'd broken that
middle sentence into two, but it still makes sense as is.
> Thank goodness, no one accuses them of being their evil green
> recolors. ;)
Yeah, I was happy to see that potential point of predictability avoided
as well.
>> "Originally, we were no more than a single Seiberdroid. We developed
>> only Destron minds, while you developed only Cybertron minds, yet we
>> were two states of the same byte.
>
> Un huh. I know you added that byte analogy there. It's quite
> distracting.
Sorry, but I felt the more standard translation of the phrase "hyohri
ittai," "two sides of the same coin," would sound too plain and
inappropriate, especially from a member of a race that doesn't use
coins, as far as we know. The closest tech-equivalent I could think of
involving two opposite states within the same physical space was the
on/off potential of a bit of information. So that's actually a typo on
my part--bit, not byte. Regardless, sorry it didn't work for you.
> Out of curiosity, what does the 'we were no more than one Seiberdroid'
> say in non-prettified raw English?.
"If you trace back to our origin, we were nothing more than one
Seiberdroid." Really, I barely modified that at all.
I was a bit thrown off, too, because I couldn't figure out WHEN they
were one Seiberdroid or HOW. I mean, in the current Sixcombiner
context, the groups are individuals first, gestalts second, as with
their G1 counterparts. No team has originally emerged in combined form.
Therefore, at best, the two groups should have started as one GROUP of
SIX Seiberdroids. We see in this story that the Build Team emerges from
a GROUP or portion ("ichibu") of the Cybertrons' capsules. So if they'd
just awakened then, when was there time for their evil twins to develop?
If their doubles had emerged at the same time, since the event occurred
with Cybertrons still around just after the battle, wouldn't someone
have noticed. Hmm...maybe THAT's the significance of the low lighting
that night. :-)
> The phasing is dicey, and I'd like to know how the original Japanese
> concept was expressed.
As noted, that's almost unchanged.
> Hrm, so the original G1 Sixbuilder (with two bright-green components)
> is a result of a merging of these two blokes.
Possibly, assuming the current storyline gives that much of a nod to the
OC continuity.
> The thing about originally being one Seiberdroid intrigues me, since
> they indicate that after merging with their Cybertron counterparts the
> resultant SixBuilder gestalt will be the original form... So all 12
> of them are descended from a single entity?
Possibly, but if so, it's a bit confusing as presented in the original,
as my above comments would imply.
> Did Devastator die in Zone? Er- die again?
Don't recall--it's been ages since I've seen it.
>> "Will we Cybertrons and Destrons have to continue fighting
>> forever...?"
>
> "Defeat- reissueing corporation reaches end of six-combiner molds! Go
> now?"
Er, is that meant to imply more awkward phrasing on my part, or is it
just a facetious break in the fourth wall?
> This installment had much less character meat to it than the previous
> two.
Speak to the management. :-)
> Does anyone have the Japanese tech-specs?
I imagine Metalforce Jay has at least one of them...
Douglas W. Dlin
>
> "Douglas W. Dlin" <ap...@texas.net> wrote in message news:
> <3EA601E3...@texas.net>...
>
>> Took a bit more than an hour and I'm not really totally satisfied
>> with it, but neither can I think of a way to significantly improve on
>> it w/o straying too far from the original's meaning. So hear 'tis...
>
> Awesome!
> Thanks so much Doug, I really appreciate it!
> And how long did it actually take?
Didn't keep close track, really. More than an hour, less than two, I think.
> So I guess this means that 'Devastator' Sixbuilder's official name is
> Destron SixBuilder?
Not exactly. The exact phrase is "Destron no SixBuilder" or "The
SixBuilder of the Destrons." So they're both just "SixBuilder," but one
has to have "on the Destron side" or similar appended to differentiate.
Certainly not that imaginative. I can only hope a better official name
pops up later.
> Doug, would you be interested in translating the bios as well?
I don't think Derik would forgive me if I didn't. :-)
> Or has that info already been posted somewhere?
Not to my knowledge. Elsewhere in this thread, I even theorized you'd
be the most likely person to have them available.
> I am going to post this to my page with all credit to you Doug.
Well, some credit's due to whomever at Takara wrote the thing first.
Oh, and don't forget to change "byte" to "bit" when you put it up there,
would you? I wasn't as careful as I should've been with my computer terms.
Gyumaoh
>
>I don't think Derik would forgive me if I didn't. :-)
You probably know this already, but the Sixbuilder specs (in Japanese) are
here:
Steve-o Stonebraker
> The term used is actually "new-moon night," but that didn't feel right
> in English. I wanted to say "moonless," but even a new moon is slightly
> visible.
New Moon is the phase where none of the sunlit parts of the Moon are
facing Earth. Additionally, it roughly shares its position in the sky
with the Sun (which is why the side facing us is dark), so at nighttime
when the Moon is in the new phase, it's not even above the horizon and you
definitely won't be seeing it. Near dusk or sunrise, I suppose you
*might* be able to make out the Moon's disc thanks to Earthshine, but, I
wouldn't bet on it. You get a better viewing angle for that sort of thing
with a crescent phase.
Sometimes people say "New Moon" when they mean a very narrow waxing
crescent, but, that's an error in terminology. Also, waxing crescent sets
shortly after the Sun does, so, most of the night with a waxing crescent
will be Moonless anyway.
So, in conclusion, you should probably just say "Moonless night".
--Steve-o
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Stonebraker | Transformers FAQ Keeper | Astrophysicist
sst...@yahoo.com | www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb | AOL IM: srstoneb
Derik Smith
Doug wrote
>On Apr. 23, 2003, Metalforce Jay wrote:
>> Doug, would you be interested in translating the bios as well?
>
>I don't think Derik would forgive me if I didn't. :-)
…what, am I acquiring some kind of reputation?
>On Apr. 23, 2003, Derik Smith wrote (as I figured he would ;-) ):
Hey now!
>> Wondering if there's any significance to 'nearly moonless' clause
>>here.
>
>I wondered that myself. I can only guess it was there to set the mood
>as it certainly holds no significance anywhere else in the story.
>
>The term used is actually "new-moon night," but that didn't feel right
>in English. I wanted to say "moonless," but even a new moon is slightly
visible.
Hrm. The choice was probably metaphorical then, with no in-continuity
meaning. I'll not worry about it.
>> Was 'thawed' in the original? (It's idiomatic not literal either way,
>> but I'm curious.)
>
>Yes, it was, using that actual verb--"kaitoh." I was a bit nonplussed,
>since I hadn't imagined the capsules using cryogenic technology at all,
>and I'd not seen the verb used figuratively in Japanese.
Well, the stasis pods have undeniable cryogenic overtones to them, I have
no problem with the idiomatic use of thawed… I'm just still trying to figure
out what it means they were in 'compressed storage.'
>>> "Originally, we were no more than a single Seiberdroid. We developed
>>> only Destron minds, while you developed only Cybertron minds, yet we
>>> were two states of the same byte.
>>
>> Un huh. I know you added that byte analogy there. It's quite
>> distracting.
>
>Sorry, but I felt the more standard translation of the phrase "hyohri
>ittai," "two sides of the same coin," would sound too plain and
>inappropriate, especially from a member of a race that doesn't use
>coins, as far as we know. The closest tech-equivalent I could think of
>involving two opposite states within the same physical space was the
>on/off potential of a bit of information. So that's actually a typo on
>my part--bit, not byte. Regardless, sorry it didn't work for you.
>> Out of curiosity, what does the 'we were no more than one Seiberdroid'
>> say in non-prettified raw English?.
>
>"If you trace back to our origin, we were nothing more than one
>Seiberdroid." Really, I barely modified that at all.
Okay. Good, just so I don't have to thinka bout possible other reads of
the original Japanese. (Should have figured you'd leave such a crucial passage
as close to the original meaning and phrasing as possible.)
>I was a bit thrown off, too, because I couldn't figure out WHEN they
>were one Seiberdroid or HOW. I mean, in the current Sixcombiner
>context, the groups are individuals first, gestalts second, as with
>their G1 counterparts.
Well, the G1 Gesalts were built. These come from protoforms. And
Protoforms are… proto-conceptual. They were never peorperly defined, giving
you a lot of leeway.
The simplest answer is literal, one Seiberdroid fissioned 12 times, like
in the G2 comics.
This presents problems in some places. Most notably that a fissioned
transformer doesn't rersult in 2 offspring, it leaves the original and creates
a new entity- which does not then remember BEING the original. That's just…
not the way it happens.
OTOH, it's something I could see being done by a Japanese story writer
who's kinda familiar with the IDEA of fissioning from the G2 comics, but
doesn't know the source material well. Rather like a US fan trying to write
about Dark Nova, knowing about his basic idea but lacking much real information
on him.
>No team has originally emerged in combined form.
> Therefore, at best, the two groups should have started as one GROUP of
>SIX Seiberdroids. We see in this story that the Build Team emerges from
>a GROUP or portion ("ichibu") of the Cybertrons' capsules. So if they'd
>just awakened then, when was there time for their evil twins to develop?
> If their doubles had emerged at the same time, since the event occurred
>with Cybertrons still around just after the battle, wouldn't someone
>have noticed. Hmm...maybe THAT's the significance of the low lighting
>that night. :-)
Actually, I think the story indicates that the Cybertrons lost some
capsules in the same fight that awakened the Build Team. Likely you had 12
Seiberdroid capsules in storage already which had whatever this intrinsic
connection was BEFORE their awkening.
I was asking about Devastator's death in Zone because… it's at least
possible I suppose that Devastator's components got Recycled, and then all
split somehow. (all 6 of them fissioning off an additional form I suppose.)
Which would then require that all 6 Constructions had once been a single entity
way back 9 million years ago. Which in turn raises questions about RoadHauler
being part of the crew… It's a messy question. But the alternate is to say
that this Devastar is another Devastar, with no connection to the original
except the same colors, forms, and names for the individual components and the
combined form.
Recent years of 'mythological' style name-reuse may have trained us to
accept this sort of 'stylistic doppelganger,' but this story is being retconned
into G1 prior to Battlestars. G1 didn't DO this name-reuse 'color Blur like
Wheeljack as an homage' shit. They've got the same names, there has to be an
ACTUAL connection to the Constructicons. Somehow.
>> Hrm, so the original G1 Sixbuilder (with two bright-green components)
>> is a result of a merging of these two blokes.
>
>Possibly, assuming the current storyline gives that much of a nod to the
>OC continuity.
Which I assume it will. I still believe we'll end up with OC-style
Sixwing and Sixbuilder releases at the end of to the line. What's up in the
air is how Takara ends the line. With a whimper, finishing out the OC reissues
and a few more redecos, or try to keep it going with more micro's or maybe
something new?
>>> "Will we Cybertrons and Destrons have to continue fighting
>>> forever...?"
>>
>> "Defeat- reissueing corporation reaches end of six-combiner molds! Go
>> now?"
>
>Er, is that meant to imply more awkward phrasing on my part, or is it
>just a facetious break in the fourth wall?
Just a facetious take on Japanese announcer-voices at cliffhangers,
actually.
Douglas W. Dlin
>
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:55:34 -0500, Douglas W. Dlin wrote:
>> The term used is actually "new-moon night," but that didn't feel
>> right in English. I wanted to say "moonless," but even a new moon is
>> slightly visible.
>
> New Moon is the phase where none of the sunlit parts of the Moon are
> facing Earth.
Oh, so? When I checked the Japanese term in my dictionary, even though
the characters literally meant "new moon," it defined it as "a new
[young] moon; a crescent moon," so I incorrectly inferred. Well,
"moonless night" it is, then. Metalforce Jay, please amend your site's
version of the story as necessary.
> Sometimes people say "New Moon" when they mean a very narrow waxing
> crescent, but, that's an error in terminology.
Ah, that perhaps explains the definition given.
> Also, waxing crescent sets shortly after the Sun does, so, most of the
> night with a waxing crescent will be Moonless anyway.
So, once again, "moonless" it is.
> So, in conclusion, you should probably just say "Moonless night".
Er, quite.
And thanks. :-)
Douglas W. Dlin
Dang, should've checked Dr. Sigma's site to begin with. Didn't think
he'd update with 'em that fast, even so. Thanks!
Bulldozer/CRUSH-BULL
Leader of the Build Team. A designer, Crush-Bull prefers it when things
proceed systematically. Deeply sympathetic and sentimental, he has a
weakness for being easily tricked. Glide says of him, "He's one
calculating city-'bot."
Power Shovel/DIGGER
A mighty robot boasting of his power. Puts strenuous effort into
construction operations in combat, skillfully operating the shovel of
which he's so proud. The moodsetter of the Build Team, he devotes
himself to the care of his teammates. His famous way of chairing
recreational times is known even among the Destrons.
Crane Truck/Ironlift
A martial artist versed in all manner of hand-to-hand combat, Ironlift
is very agile and specializes in work at high altitudes. He has
excellent jumping power, and rumor has it that, leaping about from
building to building, he's more ninja-like than the ninja-esque Night.
Shovel-dozer/GRAN-ARM
The laugh-master(?) of the Build Team, Gran-Arm makes use of his
tight-turning vehicular mode to charge through the battlefield. While
his offensive ability is low compared to the other five, his bulky armor
ranks him high on the team in defensive power. At times he has teamed
up with Digger to perform on TV shows.
Dump Truck/TREADER
Destron soldiers fear this taciturn 'bot's great fighting strength.
Spark and Lief adore him like a big brother. Apparently, long ago, he
incurred a debt to Crush-Bull that he could never repay and now serves
him loyally.
Cement Mixer/MIXING
Just like Road Police, Mixing is quite the gun-nut. His knowledge of
weaponry is second to none, and his hobby is modifying Earth weaponry
for his own use. On the other hand, he is also quite a pacifist(?), and
it's his pet theory that once all the guns are his, no one could wage
war any more.
Six-Robot Gestalt Knight/SIXBUILDER
The gestalt robot completed when the six members of the Build Team
combine. Boasts of the greatest strength among the Micromasters.
Though they thoroughly display this power in their fighting strength,
they actually want to use their abilities for creation rather than destruction.
Douglas W. Dlin
>
> Doug wrote
>
>> On Apr. 23, 2003, Metalforce Jay wrote:
>>> Doug, would you be interested in translating the bios as well?
>>
>> I don't think Derik would forgive me if I didn't. :-)
>
Of someone who enjoys delving into continuity labyrinths so much that he
actually is unhappy when he ISN'T half-lost in them, yes. ;-) If
there's a chance that some new background tidbit will help you add to
your Grand Unified Theory of Transformers Continuity, you're all to
impatient to see it, analyze it and integrate it. Or do I exaggerate? :-)
>> On Apr. 23, 2003, Derik Smith wrote (as I figured he would ;-) ):
>
> Hey now!
No insult intended, natch. For reasons stated above, I figured it was
inevitable you'd chime in, is all.
>>> Wondering if there's any significance to 'nearly moonless' clause
>>> here.
And as Steve-O has so kindly pointed out, it should actually be just
"moonless," based on the use of "new moon" in the original, so the
mood-setting phrase is even punchier.
> Hrm. The choice was probably metaphorical then, with no in-continuity
> meaning. I'll not worry about it.
Good man.
>>> Was 'thawed' in the original? (It's idiomatic not literal either
>>> way, but I'm curious.)
>>
>> Yes, it was, using that actual verb--"kaitoh." I was a bit
>> nonplussed, since I hadn't imagined the capsules using cryogenic
>> technology at all, and I'd not seen the verb used figuratively in
>> Japanese.
>
> Well, the stasis pods have undeniable cryogenic overtones to them, I
> have no problem with the idiomatic use of thawedâ€| I'm just still
> trying to figure out what it means they were in 'compressed storage.'
I thought it was an attempt to echo the idea of compressed data storage
w/o really considering the physical implications.
>> "If you trace back to our origin, we were nothing more than one
>> Seiberdroid." Really, I barely modified that at all.
>
> Okay. Good, just so I don't have to thinka bout possible other reads
> of the original Japanese. (Should have figured you'd leave such a
> crucial passage as close to the original meaning and phrasing as
> possible.)
I'll readily admit that my degree of interpretation sometimes exceeds
what some feel is reasonable, but I don't do it out of any random whim
or without considering the consequences of what might be lost. I try to
strike a balance, as always. Sometimes my aim is off or someone else's
idea of the proper balance point is different, is all.
>> I was a bit thrown off, too, because I couldn't figure out WHEN they
>> were one Seiberdroid or HOW. I mean, in the current Sixcombiner
>> context, the groups are individuals first, gestalts second, as with
>> their G1 counterparts.
[snip]
> The simplest answer is literal, one Seiberdroid fissioned 12 times,
> like in the G2 comics.
That...just doesn't seem right, somehow.
> This presents problems in some places.
Exactly.
> OTOH, it's something I could see being done by a Japanese story writer
> who's kinda familiar with the IDEA of fissioning from the G2 comics,
> but doesn't know the source material well.
That could very well be. It just means folks like us have to allow for that.
> Rather like a US fan trying to write about Dark Nova, knowing about
> his basic idea but lacking much real information on him.
"And so Unicron, merging with the spirit of Eddy Grant, evolved a new form..."
>> No team has originally emerged in combined form. Therefore, at best,
>> the two groups should have started as one GROUP of SIX Seiberdroids.
>> We see in this story that the Build Team emerges from a GROUP or
>> portion ("ichibu") of the Cybertrons' capsules. So if they'd just
>> awakened then, when was there time for their evil twins to develop?
>> If their doubles had emerged at the same time, since the event
>> occurred with Cybertrons still around just after the battle, wouldn't
>> someone have noticed. Hmm...maybe THAT's the significance of the low
>> lighting that night. :-)
>
> Actually, I think the story indicates that the Cybertrons lost some
> capsules in the same fight that awakened the Build Team.
You think so? My interpretation was that, since the Destrons were
fended off, that particular battle DIDN'T result in the loss of any
capsules, only the damage of some. I could be too close to this to see
the big picture, though.
> Likely you had 12 Seiberdroid capsules in storage already which had
> whatever this intrinsic connection was BEFORE their awkening.
That still involves a bit more handwaving than I'm comfortable in
seeing, at least when they're already trying to explain so much.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?M26312554
Seiberdroids are implied to have been fully awake and developed in
personality, if not faction, before the dimensional shockwave that
teleported them to Earth messed things up. If they couldn't transform,
they couldn't combine either, so that'd mean the shockwave split
SixBuilder's Seiberdroid form into six--no, TWELVE parts, six identical
pairs, half of which went Cybertron, the other half Destron. That's a
pretty astounding addition to what we know so far about how these
Micromasters are supposed to have come about, if true.
Ray Furbanks
>
> OTOH, it's something I could see being done by a Japanese story writer
> who's kinda familiar with the IDEA of fissioning from the G2 comics, but
> doesn't know the source material well. Rather like a US fan trying to write
> about Dark Nova, knowing about his basic idea but lacking much real information
> on him.
Actually, I am willing to bet even Japanese fans would be fairly hard
pressed to come up with anything much more elaborate on Dark Nova than
some U.S. fans, given how little there really is about him published
anywhere.
> I was asking about Devastator's death in Zone because… it's at least
> possible I suppose that Devastator's components got Recycled, and then all
> split somehow.
But where does he die in Zone? The only guy who is shown actually
being destroyed is Predaking. The others who look to be finished off
even show up later in the TVM series. So I wouldn't count Devastar
getting pushed back under lava anything resembling a death-blow.
> Recent years of 'mythological' style name-reuse may have trained us to
> accept this sort of 'stylistic doppelganger,' but this story is being retconned
> into G1 prior to Battlestars.
Why? How come it can't happen either after, or at the tail end of
Battlestars? There's no real reason the better part of the story
should not happen after. I guess you are thinking this only because
Sixliner was first used in BS? Cause that's the only way it would mean
it had to take place prior to BS. Granted I have basiclly forgoten the
basis for first three parts to this story arc, but I don't remember
anything set in stone about a time or date, and a Google search
brought about more junk that I am willing to go through tonight.
--Dave
Derik Smith
>>> I don't think Derik would forgive me if I didn't. :-)
>>
>> â€|what, am I acquiring some kind of reputation?
>
>Of someone who enjoys delving into continuity labyrinths so much that he
>actually is unhappy when he ISN'T half-lost in them, yes. ;-) If
>there's a chance that some new background tidbit will help you add to
>your Grand Unified Theory of Transformers Continuity, you're all to
>impatient to see it, analyze it and integrate it. Or do I exaggerate? :-)
I like to think of myself as simply the most vocal of your many raving
fans. ;)
>>>> Was 'thawed' in the original? (It's idiomatic not literal either
>>>> way, but I'm curious.)
>>>
>>> Yes, it was, using that actual verb--"kaitoh." I was a bit
>>> nonplussed, since I hadn't imagined the capsules using cryogenic
>>> technology at all, and I'd not seen the verb used figuratively in
>>> Japanese.
>>
>> Well, the stasis pods have undeniable cryogenic overtones to them, I
>> have no problem with the idiomatic use of thawedâ€| I'm just still
>> trying to figure out what it means they were in 'compressed storage.'
>
>I thought it was an attempt to echo the idea of compressed data storage
>w/o really considering the physical implications.
Yes, and yet... they're Micromasters. And this is to a degree presented
as the ORIGIN of the Micromasters. Of course at the same time, making THIS the
origin of the pint-size bots clashes horribly with all circumstances on the US
and Japan. ;-)
>>> I was a bit thrown off, too, because I couldn't figure out WHEN they
>>> were one Seiberdroid or HOW. I mean, in the current Sixcombiner
>>> context, the groups are individuals first, gestalts second, as with
>>> their G1 counterparts.
>
>[snip]
>> The simplest answer is literal, one Seiberdroid fissioned 12 times,
>> like in the G2 comics.
>
>That...just doesn't seem right, somehow.
Well, no. On a simpler level, it's like saying that a standard combiner
(say, Defensor) was originally JUST Defensor, but that he fissioned 5 times and
now all 5 components just COMBINE into Defensor.
This is just... not how it works. Some combiners, like the Seaacons and
Monster Pretenders were clearly engineered from volunteers.
Of course, there is a meta-argument you could make comparing this to 'The
One,' the gestalt uni-mind all Transformers will form in the far future. And
as always, the 'that's not how G1 did it' argument will have to contend with
the fact that G1 predates the spark and protoform concepts, both of which have
subsequently been retconned into it, making any counter based purely on the G1
sources... iffy.
>> OTOH, it's something I could see being done by a Japanese story writer
>> who's kinda familiar with the IDEA of fissioning from the G2 comics,
>> but doesn't know the source material well.
>
>That could very well be. It just means folks like us have to allow for that.
In which case, be this post-zone, the encapsulated Micromasters could be
recycled Devastator components. ...for argument's sake.
>> Actually, I think the story indicates that the Cybertrons lost some
>> capsules in the same fight that awakened the Build Team.
>
>You think so? My interpretation was that, since the Destrons were
>fended off, that particular battle DIDN'T result in the loss of any
>capsules, only the damage of some. I could be too close to this to see
>the big picture, though.
*checks*
You're correct, ,they didn't lose any this night, but they had lost some
earlier, and on this night yet ANOTHER set of six woke up because they had a
shock.
>Seiberdroids are implied to have been fully awake and developed in
>personality, if not faction, before the dimensional shockwave that
>teleported them to Earth messed things up. If they couldn't transform,
>they couldn't combine either, so that'd mean the shockwave split
>SixBuilder's Seiberdroid form into six--no, TWELVE parts, six identical
>pairs, half of which went Cybertron, the other half Destron. That's a
>pretty astounding addition to what we know so far about how these
>Micromasters are supposed to have come about, if true.
Ah, see, I was assuming that they were split BEFORE this, resulting in 12
individuals all sent aboard the search mission.
Dave writes:
>Regen...@aol.com (Derik Smith) wrote in message
news:<20030424163117...@mb-m04.aol.com>...
>>
>> OTOH, it's something I could see being done by a Japanese story writer
>> who's kinda familiar with the IDEA of fissioning from the G2 comics, but
>> doesn't know the source material well. Rather like a US fan trying to write
>> about Dark Nova, knowing about his basic idea but lacking much real
information
>> on him.
>
>Actually, I am willing to bet even Japanese fans would be fairly hard
>pressed to come up with anything much more elaborate on Dark Nova than
>some U.S. fans, given how little there really is about him published
>anywhere.
Perhaps not, but I'd wager Japanese fans would have a better idea than
English fans about what Dark Nova is NOT. As opposed to just having him do his
best Unicron impression. "Gallamen? What Gallamen?"
Did the old Destron forces work for DN or not? Just who was based on
Lucifer, certainly not DN himself... things like that I have no clue about. Or
'aboot,' for you Canadians reading.
>> I was asking about Devastator's death in Zone because… it's at least
>> possible I suppose that Devastator's components got Recycled, and then all
>> split somehow.
>
>But where does he die in Zone? The only guy who is shown actually
>being destroyed is Predaking. The others who look to be finished off
>even show up later in the TVM series. So I wouldn't count Devastar
>getting pushed back under lava anything resembling a death-blow.
Ah, excellent, this is what I was wondering. I mean, resurrection appears
to be Violenger's stock-in-trade.
So do all the generals die in the end? (I'm assuming so...)
>> Recent years of 'mythological' style name-reuse may have trained us to
>> accept this sort of 'stylistic doppelganger,' but this story is being
retconned
>> into G1 prior to Battlestars.
>
>Why? How come it can't happen either after, or at the tail end of
>Battlestars? There's no real reason the better part of the story
>should not happen after. I guess you are thinking this only because
>Sixliner was first used in BS? Cause that's the only way it would mean
>it had to take place prior to BS. Granted I have basiclly forgoten the
>basis for first three parts to this story arc, but I don't remember
>anything set in stone about a time or date, and a Google search
>brought about more junk that I am willing to go through tonight.
Well I suppose they could be from BS/RoC before Convoy... returned. But
their original mission was to find Convoy. I suppose they could be another
group sent out looking for Convoy, separate from SkyGarry's crew at the same
time. The business about Convoy escaping into space still gives me twitches.
Douglas W. Dlin
>
> Doug wrote:
>
> I like to think of myself as simply the most vocal of your many raving
> fans. ;)
Then 1) you should take a quick recount of my "fans" and 2) you might
want to ease up on the raving. Have another "smart drink" instead.
> Of course, there is a meta-argument you could make comparing this to
> 'The One,' the gestalt uni-mind all Transformers will form in the far
> future.
It's a neat idea, but even allowing for modifying the approach to the
story to accommodate BW-era concepts, I think it's reading a bit much
into the situation.
>> Seiberdroids are implied to have been fully awake and developed in
>> personality, if not faction, before the dimensional shockwave that
>> teleported them to Earth messed things up. If they couldn't
>> transform, they couldn't combine either, so that'd mean the shockwave
>> split SixBuilder's Seiberdroid form into six--no, TWELVE parts, six
>> identical pairs, half of which went Cybertron, the other half
>> Destron. That's a pretty astounding addition to what we know so far
>> about how these Micromasters are supposed to have come about, if
>> true.
>
> Ah, see, I was assuming that they were split BEFORE this, resulting in
> 12 individuals all sent aboard the search mission.
If that had happened, don't you think the half that became Cybertrons
would REMEMBER it? I mean, if six of them remember being one before
becoming twelve, why shouldn't the other six? And even if we allow
that, it's not like their Destron doppelgangers had any reason to keep
it a secret to themselves prior to getting to Earth, because before
then, they were all on the same side.
Derik Smith
>> I like to think of myself as simply the most vocal of your many raving
>> fans. ;)
>
>Then 1) you should take a quick recount of my "fans" and 2) you might
>want to ease up on the raving. Have another "smart drink" instead.
Now who's being modest?
>> Of course, there is a meta-argument you could make comparing this to
>> 'The One,' the gestalt uni-mind all Transformers will form in the far
>> future.
>
>It's a neat idea, but even allowing for modifying the approach to the
>story to accommodate BW-era concepts, I think it's reading a bit much
>into the situation.
Well, I don't recon it'd be a direct analogy anyway, but it certainly
encapsulates the re-joining of shattered fragments.
Come to think of it, the whole thing reminds me more than anything of
Zyuranger's 7 fragments of God, which IS a concept I can see a Japanese writer
drawing on. (Unlike the One, whose nebulous definition comes from Primeval
Dawn.)
>>> Seiberdroids are implied to have been fully awake and developed in
>>> personality, if not faction, before the dimensional shockwave that
>>> teleported them to Earth messed things up. If they couldn't
>>> transform, they couldn't combine either, so that'd mean the shockwave
>>> split SixBuilder's Seiberdroid form into six--no, TWELVE parts, six
>>> identical pairs, half of which went Cybertron, the other half
>>> Destron. That's a pretty astounding addition to what we know so far
>>> about how these Micromasters are supposed to have come about, if
>>> true.
>>
>> Ah, see, I was assuming that they were split BEFORE this, resulting in
>> 12 individuals all sent aboard the search mission.
>
>If that had happened, don't you think the half that became Cybertrons
>would REMEMBER it? I mean, if six of them remember being one before
>becoming twelve, why shouldn't the other six? And even if we allow
>that, it's not like their Destron doppelgangers had any reason to keep
>it a secret to themselves prior to getting to Earth, because before
>then, they were all on the same side.
Well, I was positing that they'd been recycled. Recycled, like TM2 Prowl,
means no memories. Unless something odd happens to cause them to resurface.
(Which was, IIRC, the original premise of the BW ep that ended up being
Starscream's stunt-cast.)
I'm not arguing that this is the case... but I do think these
neo-Constructicons are connected to the G1 Constructicons... somehow.
How fortunate for the Japanese storywriter that he needn't go into detail
enough to explain just how. ;)
-Derik
"You have zero talent. Give up writing." -Yuki Eiri, Gravitation
"Are you just looking to become known as the cranky, uninformed, misquote
guy?" -D.S.
My brain has begun to leak.
crazysteve
> > Hey Doug, as long as you're replying to this thread (and I assume
> >you are...) do you know if Sunstorm is supposed to be the gold seeker
> >from MtMtE?
If it is, are you going to change the entry for the seeker listed
as Goldenrod to Sunstorm? I like Goldenrod better. It's so Austin
Powers.
Zob:
> If he is, he's a pretty bad representation of the character. (Not that I have
> to tell *you* that, Derik. I'm just sayin', is all.)
I'm hoping EHobby got the colors switched by accident when making
their photoshopped mockups. If Road Hauler was orange and Sunstorm
were greenish yellow, they'd be more cartoon accurate. Heck, maybe
that's what was intended, and I'm hoping these pictures are a big
photoshop mistake or something. Last time I had a hunch like this was
with the RiD Autobot 3-pack. I thought Mirage should have been blue
and Scavenger yellow, but we all know how that turned out. I swear
there's an EHobby executive somewhere laughing his ass off knowing
that even the most craptastically backwards color mixups will still
sell well. Where's the honor here? I demand a Takara executive jump
off a building in honorable protest of these goofy coloring mistakes.
--
crazysteve and his evil RUBBER TIRES of rubber
http://www.scrambledcity.com
Orson Christian - Sidecutter
news:1c3243d7.03051...@posting.google.com...
> Derik:
> > > Hey Doug, as long as you're replying to this thread (and I assume
> > >you are...) do you know if Sunstorm is supposed to be the gold seeker
> > >from MtMtE?
>
> If it is, are you going to change the entry for the seeker listed
> as Goldenrod to Sunstorm? I like Goldenrod better. It's so Austin
> Powers.
>
> Zob:
> > If he is, he's a pretty bad representation of the character. (Not that
I have
> > to tell *you* that, Derik. I'm just sayin', is all.)
>
> I'm hoping EHobby got the colors switched by accident when making
> their photoshopped mockups. If Road Hauler was orange and Sunstorm
> were greenish yellow, they'd be more cartoon accurate. Heck, maybe
> that's what was intended, and I'm hoping these pictures are a big
> photoshop mistake or something.
Fraid not. It was revealed a while back that Hauler is simply pre-Earth.
The basic idea is that he was a Constructicon before the Robo-Smasher
incident, but wasn't turned, and joined the Autobots instead.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/6/2003
Derik Smith
>>>>Hey Doug, as long as you're replying to this thread
Right, so long as you're paying attention... ;)
http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/nekotom/bw_cla.html
*points*
Funny names for Fox kids recolors. Whusis?
Douglas W. Dlin
>
> I wrote, several iterations of this thread ago;
>
>>>>> Hey Doug, as long as you're replying to this thread
>
> Right, so long as you're paying attention... ;)
Er, did I never answer that initial inquiry?
> http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/nekotom/bw_cla.html
>
> *points*
>
> Funny names for Fox kids recolors. Whusis?
Just a listing of what we got here, though he got one of the
transcriptions incorrect.
Energon Surge Rhinox
Jungle Roar Cheetor
Steel Force Tarantulas
Power Fight Waspinator (should be Power FLIGHT--have to let him know)
Mech-Tech Cheetor
Live Wire Dinobot
Cf: Google Message ID pQwl3.448$n4.18...@news1.iquest.net.
Doug Dlin
apcog at hotmail.com
Derik Smith
>transcriptions incorrect.
*blinks, goes all squinty*
*looks at google*
*does mental calculations*
Ah, the last time these names came up on att was before I fell back into
the fandom in '99. Silly of me to be thrown by such a simple thing to check...