[BOTCON] Steve-o's BotCon 2002 Report: Zobovor Edition
Steve-o Stonebraker
by Steve-o Stonebraker
This report includes SPOILERS for BotCon exclusive toys (including their
tech specs) and the first episode of the Armada cartoon. It does not
discuss the Wreckers #2 comic book directly except in conjuntion with the
toys, nor the cartoon premiere itself, although I do mention some things
about the series as a whole that were revealed or re-stated at the
convention. I will post a summary/review of the Wreckers comic separately.
This report only concerns actual information about Transformers and the
convention, and doesn't include my convention diary, tales of trying to
find the mall, and so on.
I'm arranging the report primarily by type of information, rather
than by when I learned various things. So, toy information gleaned
from the 3H panel goes with toy information gleaned from the Hasbro
panel, etc.. Within each topic, I haven't bothered to completely
organize everything, but it's more or less there.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
Exclusive items
---------------
Pre-Registrant's Toy:
Tap-Out, a G1 Cliffjumper (the recent keychain version) done in a slightly
sparkly turquoise for the body and dark grey for the undercarraige and
windows. He comes in a plastic bag which says "BotCon 2002" and also
"This bag is not a toy", etc.. His tech specs on a mock up of an old
Transformers Action Card from Milton Bradley. He is characterized as a
courageous and self-sacrificial leader who spent many years as a
Decepticon captive, fighting in gladatorial combat to survive, often
fighting in place of the Bots under his command to protect them.
Small Toy:
Glyph, a G1 Bumblebee (keychain) done with a blue body and just barely
off-white undercarraige/windows. She is packaged the same way as Tap-Out,
including an action card. She is a scientist/historian/linguist without a
lot of physical capabilities.
Medium Toy:
CatSCAN, a BM Night Slash Cheetor done with mostly white body and red/pink
for the highlights and translucent chest panel. On his chest panel there
is an etched/tamographed Autobot insignia (at least, I think it is... it
doesn't feel like a sticker; don't take this as gospel without hearing
it from an independant source). He comes in an interesting box which is
designed to look like a little portable computer (a medical computer,
specifically). The top flap of the box features a lenticular motion card
which depits CatSCAN being sort of scanned/materialized. He is created
when Apelinq uses his transfer interlink to "download" a medical computer
and an old friend's persona into reality simultaneously, creating a
sparkless AI to serve as the Wrecker's doctor.
Large Toy:
Cyclonus, as everyone already knows, is the ultra-size BM Jetstorm toy
done in a scheme similar to that of G1 Cyclonus.
Beast Wars Postcards:
Featuring the entire cast, plus Ravage. Each character (and each body for
characters with more than one) gets a postcard which features a
newly-rendered portrait and a text profile on the picture side. The
postage/message side has nothing special, and is identical for each card.
Wreckers #2:
This year's BotCon comic book continues the Wreckers story from last year.
Story by Glen Hallit and Rob Gerbracht (Tengu), script by Rob Gerbracht,
art by Dan Khanna. 40 pages.
Lollipop:
A pale yellowish lollipop in a thick disk shape, in the middle is a
graphic of Optimus Prime and the original TF logo. It's actually two
disks on top of each other, with the picture inbetween them, probably as a
layer of dyed sugar. 3H thinks the flavor is supposed to be "white
grape", although they also joked (as had others) that they are Prime
flavored. The lollis were provided by Rhino Video, of all the strange
people to give us candy.
T-shirts:
Two shirts were available this year, featuring either Primes or Megatrons.
All shirts had black fabric. On the back, either MEGATRON or OPTIMUS is
spelled out. Each letter lies in a tall colored panel which features a
portrait of a character with that name. The front of the shirt has the
RID character of that name and "BotCon 2002" in a smaller tall panel.
For Megatron: orig. G1 Megs, G2 Tank Megs, ARM Megs, G2 Hero Megs, G2 Go-Bot
Megs, G1 AM Megs, RID Megs, MW Megs. Artist is unknown to me For Prime:
orig. G1 Prime, G2 Laser Prime, G1 Powermaster Prime, Armada Prime, G2
Hero Prime with G2 Go-Bot Prime, RID Prime, and G1 AM Prime with MW Prime.
Art for the Prime shirt is by Dan Khanna.
TF Genesis prints:
In the pre-reg box everyone got one of three prints on cardstock from the
TF Genesis art book: 1) Optimus and Rodimus Primes from G1, drawn by
Makotron, 2) G1 Skywarp drawn by Dan Khanna, 3) BotCon Tigatron drawn by Dan
Khanna. The Khanna pictures are the previously-seen portraits of those
characters by Dan. Also, at the 3H panel at the end of the convention,
another print was given out. It is a CG render of Primal Prime and
Cryotek locked in battle in outer space; it's not labelled with the artist.
Convention Program Booklet:
This is pretty typical of BotCon programs. It has an intro from 3H, then
a convention schedule, pages with profiles of the year's guests, a map of
the convention center. The back cover shows an ad for BotCon 2003 with a
great photoshop job of a CG Cryotek looming behind the Chicago skyline,
encasing the entire city in ice. Also in the booklet are ads from various
Transformers websites and stores. This is new since last year. Two
ads bothered me:
o Both Allsparks have advertisements, and the "fake" one which still
lives on EZboard actually has an ad twice as large as the Allspark
which was not taken over in a coup and has the blessing of the
original Allspark founder. EZboard Allspark is apparently no longer
calling itself Allspark Classic in an attempt to differentiate the two
boards. Instead, they are striving for confusion, and even said
"accept no imitations" in their ad.
o An ad for DecepticonMatrix.com appeared. I officially despise this
website. They're lower than Bigbot. I can only imagine that 3H didn't
check up too carefully on the sites they were accepting ads for. This
place sells bootlegs of TF episodes and the movie (American and dubbed
anime) at high, clearly-for-profit prices and also features plagarized
episode guides by Aaron Marsh and Rob Jung which have had their author
information "cleverly" removed or edited to confuse the issue. Aaron's
guide has been changed to give no credit to Aaron, and also has the long
list of people who Aaron thanked for help snipped out. Rob's guide still
gives him credit in the byline, but ads credit for one of their staffers
"and others". Maybe they think they deserve credit in the byline for
changing the colors and font face? Also, the "mailto:" link where you
can send corrections to the author has been altered to send mail to the
DecepMatrix staff instead of Rob. I encourage anybody curious about the
site to check it out and feel the disgust for yourself, but make sure you
turn off image loading first so you don't trigger their array of
advertisements.
Collector's Plate:
Artwork by Andy Wildman of RID Prime strangling one of RID Megatron's
dragon heads.
Arcee Lithograph:
Produced by Dreamwave, this is a painted portrait of Arcee sitting on
Cybertron. Looked like a decent picture. I don't know who the artist is.
Pre-show dinner and post-show panel
-----------------------------------
At each seat for the dinner there was a bag containing one Armada super-con
(Demolishor, Hot Shot, or Cyclonus) and one Mini-Con team (Street Action,
Air Defense, or Ground Military). One seat at each table also won two
Heroes of Cybertron figures.
All of these items are currently available in stores, although they
weren't expected to be. The dinner exclusive had been previously meant to
be an animation cel from the Armada cartoon, but that plan became mired in
legal hassles somehow related to the decision to air the series
exclusively on Cartoon Network. This was told to 3H something like six
weeks before the convention (I don't remember the time precisely, but I
think it was in that area). Their first attempt at a "fix" was to get
Storm Jets for everybody, but Takara wasn't interested in producing them
separately or something; I didn't quite understand what Glen said. So,
then they went for the Armada and HoC toys. Hasbro didn't have enough
HoCs on-hand to provide them for everybody, so we only got two-per-table.
And, predictions at the time for Armada's shelf-date put it in mid or late
August, which would have meant that we'd be getting our dinner toys at
least a few weeks before mass release. Basically, a sequence of bad
luck is what resulted in us walking away with no tangible exclusive.
On the other hand, the first episode of the Armada cartoon was shown at
the end of dinner. My thoughts on that are in a separate post.
3H Enterprises is now 3H Production Studios, Inc. The exact meaning of
the name change isn't clear to me, but the point is that 3H has no
acquired licensing rights of many sorts from Hasbro (the license agreement
is 45 pages long). What I think it means is that previously, they
cooperated with Hasbro and Hasbro technically produced stuff for them. Now
3H is considered the producer of their stuff. But I might be wrong. ^_^;
One of the things Glen has a license for is an official Transformers Fan
Club. It appears uncertain whether this club will be aimed at kids or
older collectors, or both. Among the hopes/plans for the club are a
publication/magazine of some sort and annual toy exclusives.
The scavenger hunt was cancelled near the last minute. The reason for this
is that they simply didn't have enough time left over to plan it out. They
give games their lowest priority in planning because they consider them to
be less important than things like the exclusive merchandise. So, it fell
by the wayside.
The toys came in late -- only two days before the event. They had to pack
1500 toys in the space of six hours. They mentioned that the Cyclonuses
were already boxed; I guess they came that way from Hasbro, but the unusual
CatSCAN box had to be packed by hand by 3H. And, not surprisingly, that
would mean that the sealed bags with Tap-Out and Glyph were already sealed
when they arrived. With 1400+ pre-registrants, a batch of 1500 toys would
have to be just one of the exclusives.
As stated before, over 1400 people pre-registered. Roughly 600 of those
pre-registrations came in right near the deadline. About 2100 people
attended the convention overall. NOTE: 600 our of 1400 pre-regs were right
under the wire... that's more than 40%. Please, please, please guys...
don't procrastinate on pre-registering. The sooner 3H gets committments and
money from the fans, the sooner they can figure out what their budget is
going to be like, and the more time and effort they can put into planning
the convention's events.
The next installment of the Wreckers story will be brought to us online
in some capacity (text stories, probably) during the course of the year,
and the story will wrap up at the next convention with part four in comic
book form.
Primeval Dawn is awaiting full approval from Hasbro. As soon as it is
OK'd, it'll go up on 3H's website.
I don't remember what question prompted this, but Glen was talking about
the many color variants that Takara releases, and started listing some, and
said, "red, and black, and fire guts, blastin-butt..." ^_^ So now everyone
is waiting for a Blastin'-Butt edition of some toy. Maybe BW Inferno, or
Rhinox? Later, when expressing his belief that something was unlikely
to happen (again, I forget what) he said "I'll be dipped in wax and called
a candle if that happens."
BotCon Europe will have five exclusive items (not neccessarily toys).
There is not a lot of flexibility in choosing the date for BotCon. They
basically tend to go back and forth between two weekends in July. If they
hold it too early, a lot of kids and collece students will still be in
school. Then there's July 4, which they need to avoid. And, there are
lots of other conventions in the summer which they don't want to be
simultaneous with, such as the Wizard Worlds / Comic Cons.
Hasbro Panel & Toy Stuff
------------------------
Andrew Frankel, aka "Swiper", is working for Hasbro and has been "for a
while now". As some of you might know, a GI Joe figure was released
last year with the name "Sideswipe". His bio card says his real name is
Andrew Frankel, and the figure's head sculpt is -- to anybody who knows
Andrew -- clearly him. This led to speculation that Swiper, at worst,
had a good friend inside Hasbro. Well, he does. Probably several, since
he works with Hasbro Direct as the "Exclusives Director" for Transformers.
The other Hasbro reps were: Michelle Field (marketing director for TFs),
Aaron Archer (primary American disigner), Joe Matico (senior product
manager for TFs), Amy Agnew (holds some marketing position beside/under
Michelle). Michelle's marketing work involves things like advertising,
packaging, and licensing. As part of this, she has a big role in
overseeing production of the Armada cartoon, and presumably the comics as
well. Aaron is the rep who spoke the most at this panel, and seemed to
be the one "in charge" even though his title sounds less important than
Joe Matico's. Aaron is a designer, but he's also responsible for
consistency of the franchise across its incarnations (toys, cartoons, etc.),
and is the guy who assigns names to the toys/characters. At other BotCons
during the Beast Era, I think it was said that names were assigned by
marketing people, so perhaps this is something which has changed since then.
The most detail I can recall about Joe's responsibilities was that he does
quality assurance stuff. There was something else listed, but, I don't
recall what it was.
One of the lead guys from Takara's design team was at the panel, but
sitting in the front row of the audience. Aaron described him as his
counterpart in Japan. Another guy in the Takara design team has been with
Transformers since the Pre-TF Diaclone days. (Aaron chose to say it as
Diakron, interestingly.) I don't know what that guy's name is, but I wish
I did. He deserves to be famous.
The Hasbro panel was very slick. They had a polished computer presentation
for us with artwork and photos, and more than one of the reps spoke during
this portion. The presentation included a long segment where they
anticipated and answered all the obvious questions that people were going
to ask them. (Covered below, but the list included continuity, realistic
vehicle modes, name reuse, and Unicron, and maybe a couple others.)
They repeated the answer we basically knew already about trademarks, with
the use 'em or lose 'em angle. Specifically, they mentioned that nobody
really wants to see a Transformer character name end up being used on a
completely different product such, and used "Hot Rod" as an example. Aaron
also made a point along the lines of "These were great names for characters
when I was growing up, and they're great names now. I want kids today to
grow up with their own Optimus Prime and Starscream." Lastly, he also
brought up the old "there's more than one Aaron in the world, so there can
be more than one Mirage on Cybertron" thing.
They continue to choose plastic over metal for the toys because A) metal
is more expensive and 2) diecast metal is less versitile or "flexible" in
terms of what sorts of shapes you can make it into.
The term "alt modes" was used on one of Hasbro's slides. I don't remember
ever seeing that fan term used in an official capacity before this.
The Armada cartoon series will have 52 episodes and the animation is
produced by a studio called Aeon. Regarding continuity, they want to
"stay true to what Transformers are about" without being bogged down by
previous lines in the franchise. Aaron repeated the "Final Fantasy" analogy
which has been mentioned here recently. When asked about the voice actors,
Michelle refused to answer the question explicitly, although she did say
that the cast would be announced very soon. She didn't even want to confirm
that the voices we'd heard the previous night were in fact Kaye and Chalk,
so Glen stepped in and answered the question for her, confirming those
roles. The casting was done less than two weeks before the convention, and
the first episode has its dubbing done just one day before the screening
at BotCon. (Much like the first episode of Beast Machines, which Aseph
Fipke had finished the sound mix on in the morning before flying to the
convention friday night.)
No female Transformers are planned for Armada. They are just starting to
come up with ideas for the next Transformers line, though, and there are
(at this moment) plans for females there.
They're making the vehicle modes believable, but not match real world
vehicles exactly because they don't want exact vehicle modes to get in the
way of other features. Aaron used the example that if you lop off the front
of a Lamborghini so you can put on a cool launcher, then it's not really a
Lamborghini anymore anyway. So, they just make the vehicles look however
they want.
One of the goals for Armada is that its various arms are "in synch". This
definitely applies to the visual design, as in, all the artwork will be
based on the same designs for the toy packages, cartoon, comics, and
whatever else they may make. (No more hilariously off-model artwork in
storybooks and such.)
A concept storyboard from Drexhall Jump (the design studio known in
Transfandom for having done the Trans-Tech concepts) illustrated what
became Armada: In a fight between two large robots, one receives a punch
and, like the sweat flying off a boxer's face when he is hit, little
pieces of debris fly off from the robot. But, upon closer inspection,
the things falling off are smaller Transformers.
Early designs for Armada Megatron were shown to us, starting with the US-
drawn ideas with the basic look and transformation, and moving on to the
more detailed and precise transformation designs worked out at Takara. A
feature of the toy which was dropped during the process was for his tank
mode pinchers to extend out so he could grab mini-cons who were in front
of him.
Based on that and other things Aaron decribed, it seems that, indeed, the
design process for Armada has been the same as other Transformers lines.
Aaron spent about three weeks in Japan during the line's planning and worked
directly with the Takara TF deisgners. He showed a picture of the office,
and it was a nice, brightly lit space with lots of "fannish" stuff around
the room like toys on desks, anime posters, etc.. There was also a group
photo of Aaron with the team, and it had about 15 people in it. He said
that the Takara engineers don't use any CAD systems for their work. All
the designs and engineering are completely done on paper.
For the Mini-Con faction insignia, they intentionally decided to go with
something besides a face. They were hoping to evoke an image of something
like a circuitboard with the design they chose. They showed examples of
some earlier ideas for the insignia. There were face-like symbols, and
symbols with the "M" like the final version. I quickly sketched the face
insignias in my notebook, and I'll post tidied versions of them later for
the curious.
Development of the Mini-Con idea for the line went through many steps. At
one time they saw the mini-cons as being larger toys, around the size of
a Hot Wheels or Matchbox car. To illustrate the "some ideas are great,
while others end up getting left behind" thing they showed a funny drawing
with a tanker truck and a robotic horse as one early mini-con idea. They
showed some concept boards for how the mini-cons could activate gimmicks
on the larger TFs, and they had fun sound effects drawn into them comic
book style, like a hand attaches a mini-con to a figure and in the next
panel there's a big "ZOOOOOM!" written in block letters.
When asked about the lack of ball joints in Armada figures, Joe explained
that they are not trying to avoid them for any particular reason. Basically,
the type of joint at any particular place is determined by the rest of the
toy. A certain kind of joint may be needed to make the transformation work,
for example, or a ball joint may be too weak to hold together in certain
places (especially with all the gimmicks in Armada toys). They actually
like ball joints for a lot of applications because they are so simple
(ie. inexpensive) and versitile.
Repaints of the Armada Starscream and Megatron were on display in the
dealer room. They are named Thundercracker and Galvatron, and are in
appropriate colors to serve as homages to the G1 characters. Their
Mini-Cons are also repaints of those of the original toys. The mini-con
for Thundercracker is named "Zap Master"; they wanted to allude to a
lightning bolt to go with the crack of thunder.
When asked about the Mini-Con named Leader-1, Aaron explained that it's
basically a joke, as we all thought it was. They picked up the name when
Tonka was bought out, and he figured they'd make use of it. His initial
idea was to make Leader-1 have a sort of superiority complex such that
"he thinks he's the one in charge" while he obviously isn't. Aaron implied,
though, that this idea didn't completely work out and that Leader-1 probably
won't be characterized that way.
When somebody asked about the lack of tech specs on packaging, Michelle
explained that it wasn't an easy decision for them. It was an issue of
not having enough space on the package. Because all writing on the box
needs to be tri-lingual, there just wasn't enough room to make do tech
specs unless they were incredibly short and banal. After the panel, some
people asked about including tech specs as an insert, perhaps on the back
of the sticker card, but even that isn't doable. *Everything* in the
package must be trilingual. AFAIK, though, nobody got around to asking
why Transformers had to be trilingual while other Hasbro action figures
are not. Michelle did say, though, that they plan to expand their
international marketing efforts for TFs.
Laserbeak was introduced into the line because they wanted to have a role-
play element which has been lacking from Transformers for a long time.
A way for kids to pretend they're part of the story. That is, he exists
as a toy for this purpose, and exists in the cartoon to help sell the toy.
Or, if you like, there's sort of a more organic aspect to it wheras they
wanted to have something in the toyline that could be part of the cartoon
at the same size, without being a giant robot. But it couldn't be just
a prop of some sort, like the toy swords and outfits that some toylines
have, because they want everything in the Armada toyline to transform. So,
they came up with Laserbeak.
And, yes, they changed Laserbeak's color to orance because of safety laws in
the USA. If you have a problem with that, write to your senator. Don't
call Hasbro stupid, and don't post to ATT that you shouldn't have to put up
with an orange Transformer just because you think parents are able to
completely control their children at all times. If you really care about
this issue, do something productive about it.
They devoted a full slide to this odd business of changing Hot Shot's head.
It was titled something like "we're listening", and apparently, a lot of
people have been complaining about Hot Hot's facial expression. This was
news to me. Maybe it's a big debate on the Allspark or something? Anyway,
they showed pictures of a remolded head which is very boring and blank,
unlike his present happy face. After the panel, one of the reps (Joe, I
think) said in conversation that the new head would probably only appear
on the Japanese version of the toy.
Regarding G1 reissues:
o They wanted to make the reissues a store exclusive to make sure they
were at a retailer who could "give them special attention" such as
providing the proper shelf space, and flexibility in terms of shipping
requirements and dates. They decided TRU would be that retailer based
on past cooperation and on TRU's online partnership with Amazon.com.
o They'll do as many of the Takara reissues as they can, with our help.
They plan to start with the toys that are more likely to sell.
o Some of the toys have to go through modifications before being released
in the US due to safety regulations. They are doing everything they
can to make the reissues as close as possible to the originals.
o They brought up G1 Megatron and confirmed, as everybody knows, that he
cannot be released here in his original form due to regulations. They
tried a lot of ideas to see if they could do it, but eventually decided
that they would have to change him so much that nobody would want to
buy him. They showed a photo of Megatron done up in electric blue and
dayglo orange, as has been previously mentioned. This modification was
actually not good enough to pass the regs, apparently because his gun
mode *shape* is so realistic. The only way to go, really, would be to
make him entirely orange. There was a joke around their office that they
could market him as "lava Megatron" from the end of "Heavy Metal War".
o Tools for Soundwave are not in very good shape and would require some
big financial investment to bring up to speed. If Takara decides to do
it, Hasbro will release him, too, but probably not otherwise.
Andrew Frankel is personally responsible for us getting Air Attack
Primal, Scourge, Fort Max, Heroes of Cybertron, and apparently the Mega
SCF PVCs will be coming out as well (the slide said "5.5 inch Japanese
action figures". They actually didn't list Megabolt for some reason,
but, it's pretty clear that was his work as well.
Swiper confirmed after the friday dinner that HoCs were being sold in
"alternative" venues, most specifically Meijer and drug stores. He also
said that they will try to release as many of them as they can, including
characters who have not been previously represented in the US. And, of
course, they are releasing figures that were "chase" figures in Japan.
Maximus is having trouble passing "drop testing" standards, where the
toy is required to survive falls without breaking in ways that could
be dangerous. Andrew mentioned the risk of "impalement" on toy shards,
which I thought was pretty funny.
There was a question from the audience about whether store exclusives will
be available in Canada, and Michelle indicated that they do offer the toys
to the Canadian branches of the US retailers who get exclusives. So, I
guess that if Canadian TRUs aren't carrying the US TRU exclusives, it's
because the buyers for TRU-Canada decided not to bother with them. (?)
When asked about video releases of older cartoons, Michelle explained that
she didn't really have influence over when/if that happens -- it's all up
to Rhino. She did, however, imply that video releases of the RID series
would occur next year.
Michelle "hates" the new-movie question. She knows there have been lots of
rumors flying around about it. People occasionally come to them with ideas
or proposals, but as of now, there is nothing happening.
The Trans-Tech Story, by Aaron Archer:
o After Beast Machines, they wanted to do a slow drift back to vehicle
versus vehicle Transformers. Hence, the vehicles based on Beast
characters with some animal qualities. Aaron specifically used the
term "monkey truck" to refer to some of the concept art which has been
online for over a year.
o They spent 8 months on development on it. Unpainted models of some toys
do exist, but they didn't get further than that. No molds or tooling.
o They then decided to start fresh and "return to the core" of
Transformers, so they aborted development.
o RID was brought in as a "stopgap" to give them a full year to figure
out what to do next. So, that's no longer just fan speculation.
Storm Jet and the Autobot 3-pack in RID had their sparks left as-is and
simply painted over. If you scrape away that red, you should see their
old Vehicon sparks underneath. It was simply not worth the expense to
create brand new Autobot sparks for them. The Hasbro person answering
this question said that the sparks are "gang molded" which was a new term
to me. Basically, lots and lots of them are made all at once.
There are no plans right now to make toys of "The War Within". They didn't
completely say "no", but I think the chances of getting any are very, very
low. Basically they gave a "if the comic's a really big hit, we'll consider
it" line.
One of the reasons that hasbrocollectors.com was dropped was that it
irritates Hasbro's retailers when Hasbro sells toys directly to fans.
At the 3H panel, somebody asked if 3H had considered using the aborted
deluxe-size Obsidian toy as an exclusive. 3H said that no tooling exists
for that toy.
Writer/Director Stuff
---------------------
Panel featured Simon Furman, Bob Forward, Tom Wyner, Rich Epcar, and
Steve Kramer.
During introductions, the RID guys came first, and they all had multiple
credits since they did writing/directing and voices for the show. When
Forward was introduced, he had just one short credit, but received a much
larger cheer, prompting two of the RID guys to joke about not being needed
by getting up like they were going to leave. Funny. ^_^
The RID guys are very talkative and cheery. All of them worked as actors
on Robotech.
Tom Wyner explained that the RID writers were provided with literal-
translation scripts of Car Robots which they then adapted. He read some
pieces of dialogue, which sounded (predictably) terrible. My favorite
was the Japanese version of the "forced fusion" battle cry: Compulsary
Union God Fire Combat!
Most dubbing work is done as a cold reading. That is, the actor
hasn't read the script beforehand and doesn't get to practice it, except
in the sense that they can do a few takes in the studio. I'd never
thought about that before.
Steve Kramer says half of Sky-Byte's dialogue was made up in the studio
because Spellos (the actor) and the directors didn't think the scripts
were funny enough. Spellos had told the same story the previous night in
social conversation with fans.
The technobabble explanation of the space bridge in the first episode of
RID required about 10 hours of effort on Wyner's part. He had to send
many, many variants of the line to Hasbro for approval so that it was
"just right", and they went with the one that Hasbro chose.
References in RID to previous TF series were specifically mandated by
Hasbro. The RID writers were not familiar with older TF stuff, and often
didn't understand the references they were being told to make. They didn't
use all of them, because they couldn't find a way to fit them all in, but
they had to do it most of the time. They clearly felt like this was an
unwelcome intrustion upon their work by the corporation, which I can
totally understand. At the same time, I thought the references were cool
and funny; they made me happy, but I don't think they should be forced
upon the writers.
There was no series bible for RID. At least, not beforehand. They sort
of created one as they went along.
Bob Forward indicated that near the end of BW they actually talked to
Hasbro about where the show was going, and told Hasbro that it should
either become more open by, for example, going into space, or should just
end. Hasbro agreed. He said that it was very inaccurate to say that
he and Larry had been "fired".
Bob and Larry were not "partners". They rarely collaborated on a script,
and more or less developed a relationship where they agreed not to
veto each others' scripts, but they disagreed on a lot of issues, and at
times had a little fun with each other by hijacking a development the
other had set up and turning it into something different.
Bob Forward viewed the Vok as "the ultimate evolution of human life" or
of intelligent life in general. The name is derivitive from the word
"folk". He saw them as guardians of space and time, and that they were
attempting to accellerate the evolution of life on Earth into themselves.
Larry, on the other hand, wanted to connect them to the Swarm from the G2
comics and the extinction of the human race at its hands.
In general, Bob preferred the G1 cartoon while Larry preferred the comics.
While working as a storyboarder, Forward used to touch up scripts from
time to time. They started to give him more scripts to work on, and the
scripts he was handed got progressively worse and worse. He asked why
all the scripts they gave him were so bad, and they said it was because
he was good at fixing them. That's when he realized he should think about
being a writer.
Bob said he thinks the Beast Machines treatment (which went to Skir and
Isenberg as story editors) was written by Marv Wolfman. Did we know that
already?
A typical script length for Beast Wars was 21 pages, while most cartoon
scripts are 44 pages. This is in keeping with other statements Bob/Larry
has made along the lines of "CG cartoons have to paced like live action,
which is slower than cel animation, or they end up feeling too fast".
Forward says "umm" and "uh" a lot.
When Simon was brought on board for Beast Wars, his first question to
Bob was "Who can I kill?"
The two of them reiterated that they had really grandiose place for the
Nemesis story. One thing they wanted was to pit BW and G1 characters
against each other in battle to shut up / irritate the people on ATT who
were saying that the Beast Warriors would get creamed if they came up
against a G1 robot.
After Bob answered a rather uninteresting question about Tigerhawk, Simon
chipped in, "Did I kill him?" to which Bob responded, "Yes, you did."
Big laughs from the audience.
Simon Furman is a huge fan of Stan Lee's overblown, vocab-rich dialogue.
Voice Actor Stuff
-----------------
Participating in the panel were Neil Kaplan, Mike McConnohie, Peter Spellos,
Wankus, and Dick Gautier.
The first question at the VA panel was directed to McConnohie. The fan got
as far as "I have a question about Tracks..." when McConnohie interrupted
him to say with a smile, "No, he's not gay." Gautier then jumped in to
say, "But Rodimus Prime is!"
Kaplan had initially auditioned for X-Brawn, but they called him back to
re-do his audition voice without the southern accent, and that's how he
got the role for RID Optimus Prime.
Neil Kaplan filled in as Megatron for one RID episode when the Megs actor
was on an extended vacation on a boat in France.
Neil Kaplan is sort of hard to figure out. The good news is that he was
genuinely ecstatic about his job as Prime on Transformers, and would very
much like to play more Transformers roles in the future. He seems to be
very much a "fan" himself, partly of Transformers, but more of "stuff" in
general. He loves cartoons, toys, science fiction, etc.. He even
described how he had read some online forums when his part was announced
and saw people worrying that Prime would sound like his goofy Digimon
character. On the flipside, on more than one occasion during the
convention he sort of went off on rants about the Armada cartoon being
really horrible. While a couple of the criticisms I heard had some
legitimacy, he mostly seemed to be saying "Armada suxxorz". Most of his
comments didn't strike me as rational, although, admittedly, at both of
the the two times I am aware of him making such comments he was drunk.
We had learned before the convention that Peter Spellos had small parts in
some movies that lie somewhere between soft-core porn (like late night on
Cinemax) and simple "titty flicks" (like the old "Up All Night" movies on
the USA network, except without the gratuitous frontal nudity cut out).
During the panel, Hooper_X (at least, it sure sounded like Hoop; I didn't
bother to turn and look because I recognized the voice) started his question
by saying that Spellos had done some interesting work early in his career
(Spellos then interjected, "Bring it on," and made a similar gesture with
his hands). Then, as a play on the old "how do I get into voice acting?"
question Hooper asked how to get into softcore. Spellos explained how he'd
gotten his start, and that he had worked in a lot of Roger Corman b-movies.
"I've got lots of skeletons in my closet, and I'm proud of every one," he
said.
The famous Sky-Byte song ("who's the baddest shark in town?") was completely
improvised by Spellos. The script they had just said "Sky-Byte sings".
They decided to bring the song back again in the last episode when they
realized that the series closed on a shot of him.
After some question which the audience wasn't pleased with or had already
been asked (I don't remember what it was) Spellos joked, "I love it when
the audience heckles each other."
Spellos, as has been somewhat publicised, has a short but visible role in
"Men In Black 2" as the subway operator at the beginning of the movie. He
has also landed a recurring role in a new NBC series called "American
Dreams" as the director of an American Bandstand show.
McConnohie was wonderful all around. Funny, charismatic, and doing great
"announcer" type voices all the time.
Dick Gautier hadn't been aware that the voice work for RID was all done
as ADR/dubbing, which led to some good converation between the panelists
in which the differences between the two shows' recording was explained for
all. Just to make sure everyone's up to speed: Recording for G1 was done
before the animation, as with most American cartoons. All the actors sat
together in a single room where they could play off of each other and
interact. Recording for RID (and all dubbed shows where the animation was
done first) is done with one actor in the room at a time, and they have to
start their lines at exactly the right time -- prompted by a series of
beeps -- and also end at exactly the right time, neither before nor after
their character's mouth stops flapping. (Beast Wars/Machines were also
done one-actor-at-a-time, although the animation came second for those
shows.) McConnohie did a lot of this explaining, and shared the term
"acquired animation" with us, which some of the higher-ups like people to
use these days. (McConnohie thought it was silly.)
Gautier was asked about his role as Serpentor, and he gave us an
enthusiastic "This, I command!". He went on to explain that it was a good
line to use during B&D sex... "Put on those boots, pick up that whip...
this, I command!"
Somebody asked McConnohie and Gautier about working with Frank Welker, and
they both (naturally) raved about Welker's incredible talent and his good
character. McConnohie told a story about a day in the studio when they had
a chance for a short break between takes. During the downtime, Frank was in
the back of the room and made a call on a payphone; he picked up the
handset, dropped a coin in, dialed, talked, and hung up again. Except, of
course, there was no payphone in the room and he had nothing in his hands
the entire time. He'd done the entire charade himself.
They were also asked about Scatman Cruthers and Chris Latta. Both of them
were spoken fondly of. Gautier described Latta as a man with "a lot of
demons" who was too tough on himself and always very stressed out.
During G1, Wally Burr's relentless pefectionism led to the actors often
being kept in the studio for very long periods of time. (I can't actually
remembers the numbers, and I didn't write them down, but I believe it was
as much as 10 hours at a time.) It was, apparently, largely due to Burr
that the Screen Actors Guild eventually instituted time limits on how long
members could be forced to work at a time.
Gautier explained that doing bad impersonations is a great way to come up
with good voices for new characters.
Peter Spellos was able to call on Matt "Thylacine 200" Greenbaum by name
("Matt from Long Island") when he had a question, because they'd spoken
on Friday night, and talked about living on Long Island. Also, Michael
McConnohie spent a lot of time with Rik "Silverbolt" Bakke, including
inviting Rik to lunch with him on Saturday. They met through Rik's series
of interviews, naturally. McConnohie even introduced Rik to the other
actors in a manner which suggested he'd told them all about him already.
Coolies. ^_^
Comics Stuff
------------
Participating in the Dreamwave panel were Simon Furman, Adam Fortier,
Pat Lee, Derek Choo-Wing, and Chris Sarracini. They were, unfortunately,
not the greatest public speakers, but we shouldn't really expect them to
be as comfortable with a crown as the actors or Hasbro's PR people were.
Still, it was a little frustrating at times to have them ramble.
After the G2 comic collections from Titan are completed, they'll start at
the beginning of the US G1 series. All the US comic collections will have
a Diamond-exclusive hardback edition. Simon wants these hardbacks to have
art by people who don't normally do Transformers art (like John Byrne's
upcoming cover) while the paperbacks will continue to have Wildman art
that all links together. The UK comic collections will, in general at
least, not have hardcover editions. The Target 2006 hardcover is special
for the Transforce convention.
Dreamwave is planning to do roughly one 6-issue G1 miniseries each year.
They are putting together their own G1 continuity which will house all of
their G1 books, including The War Within. They're constructing it more or
less as they see fit, using the G1 toon and comic as a basis, and changing
things when they want to.
They are also planning a TF Universe-like book of character profiles. This
book will cover all of Generation One, with 371 separate characters. It
begins in November and will consist of four 96 page books. All of the
artwork will be new. The contents of the profiles will be written by them
(a specific author(s) was not mentioned) and will reflect their amalgamated
continuity. They may do later profile books for other series, such as
Beast Wars, but it's uncertain if they will. All they know is that they'd
like to do it.
Dreamwave does not currently have the rights to do anything with Japanese
exclusive characters. That would have to be done through Takara instead
of Hasbro, and they've not made any efforts.
When asked about their art models, Pat Lee described how he sort of takes
elements that he likes from various pictures of the characters and
constructs a new one that he likes. None of that is especially surprising.
I was disappointed, though, to hear no mention of the Studio OX models which
Dreamwave has used *extensively* in creating their own models, going as far
as essentially copying several OX portraits for their own posters.
Pat explained that he's been drawing Devastator as absolutly huge simply
because being "big" is part of what defines Devastator as a character.
(Perhaps the only thing that defines him, if you ask me.) So, Pat draws
him big. Adam Fortier interjected to say that we have plenty of
Transformers that change their size when they transform already, so it's
not like any fundamental rules are being broken by having Dev grow.
Chris Sarracini is a high school teacher in Toronto.
That old "TFs fighting in the sky over Cybertron" picture that Pat Lee drew
for Wizard magazine a couple years ago is what started the whole thing off
for them. It all built on that first picture and sort of snowballed.
The Armada comic will follow the main plot of the toon, but will explore
areas that the cartoon doesn't focus on, as well as give the Mini-Cons
dialogue instead of just beeps and bloops. The kids (Rad et. al.) *will*
be in the comic book.
An upcoming "mega-lithograph" has been advertised. It will be 3 feet by
five feet, and consists of all of the mini-posters from the insides of the
G1 books (twelve in all; six issues times two covers each), which all
link together into a giant picture with hundreds of characters.
Issues
------
Late events.
o Nearly every event started late, often with the doors to the panel
room being locked until the time that the panel was scheduled at, if
not until later.
o The voice actor panel started 45 minutes late because the actors were
held up in the autograph room. During the interim, those who waited in
the room were subjected to a sometimes excrutiating dispaly of fan
showboating (singing, trivia-game-running, and a lackluster job of
trying to recite the movie which degraded into bad South Park
impersonations).
o For the Dreamwave panel, Simon Furman was the first to show up, maybe
5 minutes late. For the next 15-20 minutes he sat up on the dais alone,
looking bored, as we all waited as well. Eventually somebody shouted
out "we love you Simon!", and we all cheered, and then he decided to
start talking a little bit even though Dreamwave hadn't shown up yet and
the BotCon staff weren't telling him to do anything. The rest of DW
finally showed up a full 30 minutes late.
Exclusives
o I was disappointed by the dinner. I was very happy to get to see the
cartoon, but this was the first time we've walked away from the dinner
without something tangible that we couldn't have gotten in stores anyway.
The reasons for this were described above, and with that knowledge, I
certainly don't hold any sort of grudge about it. 3H did everything they
could, and just hit a lot of bad luck.
o Having one of the exclusives be a G1 minicar was a great surprise, but
I would have preferred not to have two of them. On the other hand, I
can understand wanting to make the pre-reg exclusive be not all that much
different or "more" special than toys available to regular attendees,
sort of like my hope that the hotel exclusive next year will not be
all that different from one of the others. (Like, hotel exclusive is
a Sideswipe, while one of the regular exclusives is a Red Alert.) (And
yes, I have my hotel room reserved, so I know I'll get the hotel toy
anyway, but I'll feel bad for others if they're not able to get it and
it turns out to be something really special.)
There were no fan panels this year. With the exception of the TFMST, most
fan panels have been sort of lackluster anyway, so this isn't a huge loss
in practice, but in principle I think it's important for fan panels to be
there. They will make a comeback in the future, though. This year was
sort of an aberration.
Guests who were dressed extremely non-formally were admitted to the semi-
formal dinner yet again this year. The greatest offender is, I think,
Particle Man. I know he reads this group sometimes... while he was,
technically, wearing the required clothing (slacks, shirt, tie, jacket) he
intentionally chooses his outfit to look as ridiculous and garish as
possible. It really detracts from the whole "formal" atmosphere, IMO, and
I hope he'll cut it out in the future. There were also a couple people who
managed to get in wearing TF-themed football jerseys, and the staff from
Dreamwave was wearing t-shirts and flannels.
The ad for DecepticonMatrix.com in the program really grates on me... I
already went off on that, though.
On a similar note, the videotape bootlegger who was at the convention last
year was there again. (Or, perhaps, a different bootlegger.) Although
there was no porn shown on his TVs during the convention this year, he still
had "girls gone wild" type videos for sale and out in the open. And, please
remember, these aren't even legitimate copies of "girls gone wild", they're
bootlegs sold as essentially full price, just like all the other stuff he
sells. (Almost none of which was even remotely related to Transformers, of
course.) This guy makes his living by selling illegal copies of stuff, and
I'm really surprised that 3H would allow such a shady operation in their
convention. Many of you know that I support things like fansubs and free
comic scans for products that aren't otherwise available -- the critical
factor is that these things be distributed for the sake of helping fans get
them, and not for a profit. Distribution at-cost. This guy does not do
that. I really hope to never see him at BotCon again.
And, that's all I have to say for now... As always, the convention was a
complete blast, and I'm glad I decided to go a day early this year, arriving
on Thursday, to give me more hanging-out time.
Thanks, 3H! We love you!
--Steve-o
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Stonebraker | Transformers FAQ Keeper | Astrophysicist
sst...@yahoo.com | www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb | AOL IM: srstoneb
Aaron F. Bourque
>Convention Program Booklet:
>The back cover shows an ad for BotCon 2003 with a
>great photoshop job of a CG Cryotek looming behind the
>Chicago skyline, encasing the entire city in ice.
CRYOTEK WILL EAT YOUR WINDY CITY!
>Collector's Plate:
>Artwork by Andy Wildman of RID Prime strangling one of
>RID Megatron's dragon heads.
Oooooooooh.
>3H Enterprises is now 3H Production Studios, Inc. The
>exact meaning of the name change isn't clear to me, but
>the point is that 3H has no acquired licensing rights
No licensing rights? Then you must fight the bear!
>One of the things Glen has a license for is an official
>Transformers Fan Club. It appears uncertain whether this
>club will be aimed at kids or older collectors, or both.
I hope it's a little bit of both. Never thought of that before.
>(Aaron chose to say it as Diakron, interestingly.)
Hasblo suxxors!
>Aaron also made a point along the lines of "These were
>great names for characters when I was growing up, and
>they're great names now. I want kids today to grow up
>with their own Optimus Prime and Starscream." Lastly,
>he also brought up the old "there's more than one Aaron in
>the world, so there can be more than one Mirage on
>Cybertron" thing.
He so obviously doesn't have a point.
>The term "alt modes" was used on one of Hasbro's slides.
This, and monkey truck. Hasbro must lurk here!
ATTENTION HASBRO: Do not listen to Deathy. Please.
>To illustrate the "some ideas are great, while others end
>up getting left behind" thing they showed a funny drawing
>with a tanker truck and a robotic horse as one early
>mini-con idea.
. . . was there some connection made?
>like a hand attaches a mini-con to a figure and in the next
>panel there's a big "ZOOOOOM!" written in block letters.
Hee hee hee.
>The mini-con for Thundercracker is named "Zap Master";
>they wanted to allude to a lightning bolt to go with the
>crack of thunder.
Zap Master P.
>Regarding G1 reissues:
. . .
Yeah.
>There was a joke around their office that they
>could market him as "lava Megatron" from the end of
>"Heavy Metal War".
They should *so* do this.
>Andrew mentioned the risk of "impalement" on toy shards,
>which I thought was pretty funny.
. . . you're sick, Steve-o.
>Michelle "hates" the new-movie question.
Her and me both.
>Tom Wyner explained that the RID writers were provided
>with literal-translation scripts of Car Robots which they
>then adapted. He read some pieces of dialogue, which
>sounded (predictably) terrible. My favorite was the
>Japanese version of the "forced fusion" battle cry:
>Compulsary Union God Fire Combat!
. . . I'll bet there were better ones.
>Steve Kramer says half of Sky-Byte's dialogue was made
>up in the studio because Spellos (the actor) and the
>directors didn't think the scripts were funny enough.
Then Spellos is a GOD.
>Bob said he thinks the Beast Machines treatment (which
>went to Skir and Isenberg as story editors) was written by
>Marv Wolfman. Did we know that already?
I think so.
>Simon Furman is a huge fan of Stan Lee's overblown,
>vocab-rich dialogue.
That explains a *whole* lot . . .
>The first question at the VA panel was directed to
>McConnohie. The fan got as far as "I have a question
>about Tracks..." when McConnohie interrupted him to say
>with a smile, "No, he's not gay." Gautier then jumped in to
>say, "But Rodimus Prime is!"
Ah, so *that's* why Arcee went to Springer after the movie!
>Neil Kaplan filled in as Megatron for one RID episode when
>the Megs actor was on an extended vacation on a boat in
>France.
Did he mention which episode?
>While a couple of the criticisms I heard had some
>legitimacy, he mostly seemed to be saying "Armada
>suxxorz".
He's probably just pissed 'cause he's not OP anymore.
>The famous Sky-Byte song ("who's the baddest shark in
>town?") was completely improvised by Spellos.
See? GOD!
>Spellos joked, "I love it when the audience heckles each
>other."
He'd better get used to it with the Transfans.
>Gautier explained that doing bad impersonations is a great
>way to come up with good voices for new characters.
It's also a great way to get funny looks on the bus!
. . .
What?
>Chris Sarracini is a high school teacher in Toronto.
Is he a high school *English* teacher? Because if he is,
that means he's even *less* qualified to be a writer!
O.O
>The Armada comic will follow the main plot of the toon,
Wow. That's interesting. And surprising.
Thanks, Steve-o. You're magna-spectacular!
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
Women supposedly mature at a faster rate than men
If that is true, how come they live so much longer then . . ?
Nothing says maturity than like transforming robot toys for ten-year-olds
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/aaronbourque//cryotekwarning.jp
Steve-o Stonebraker
> >3H Enterprises is now 3H Production Studios, Inc. The
> >exact meaning of the name change isn't clear to me, but
> >the point is that 3H has no acquired licensing rights
>
> No licensing rights? Then you must fight the bear!
A-heh... yeah, I missed a W there. "3H has now acquired", blah blah.
Star Saber
"Steve-o Stonebraker" <sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnakgsvo....@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu...
> Steve-o's BotCon 2002 Report: Zobovor Edition
> by Steve-o Stonebraker
> off-white undercarraige/windows. She is packaged the same way as Tap-Out,
> including an action card. She is a scientist/historian/linguist without a
> lot of physical capabilities.
Specifically, she's an "archaeometrist" - someone who "measures history" I
guess. "Historian" seems pretty accurate though.
>> Beast Wars Postcards:
> Featuring the entire cast, plus Ravage. Each character (and each body for
> characters with more than one) gets a postcard which features a
> newly-rendered portrait and a text profile on the picture side. >
Actually, I believe this art was simply recycled from the various renderings
Mainframe has done exclusively for BotCon. I can't vouch for the others at
the moment, but Transmetal Rattrap's pose is identical to either the Dinner
Poster or the framed Trivia Contest Poster. I believe it's the latter.
> Collector's Plate:
> Artwork by Andy Wildman of RID Prime strangling one of RID Megatron's
> dragon heads.
Wildman did the art? I'll have to take a closer look at mine. I just assumed
it was Dan.
> Arcee Lithograph:
> Produced by Dreamwave, this is a painted portrait of Arcee sitting on
> Cybertron. Looked like a decent picture. I don't know who the artist is.
Pat Lee, if I'm not mistaken.
> All of these items are currently available in stores, although they
> weren't expected to be. The dinner exclusive had been previously meant to
> be an animation cel from the Armada cartoon, but that plan became mired in
> legal hassles somehow related to the decision to air the series
> exclusively on Cartoon Network.
I believe it's because the Cartoon Network had exclusively rights to
anything derived from the Armada TV series itself. Therefore,
limited-edition seri-cels (or were they going to be actual *production*
cells?) of stills from Armada would have to get approval from them first.
> Their first attempt at a "fix" was to get
> Storm Jets for everybody, but Takara wasn't interested in producing them
> separately or something; I didn't quite understand what Glen said.
That's pretty much it. They weren't interested in selling them outside of
their case assortments. Glen also said that Battle Unicorn would have
accompanied Storm Jet thus providing dinner attendees with two of the
harder-to-get figures.
> Hasbro didn't have enough HoCs on-hand to provide them for everybody, so
we only got two-per-table.
Yeah, they pretty much sold out of their on-hand supply and only shipped 60
to 3H.
> Later, when expressing his belief that something was unlikely
> to happen (again, I forget what) he said "I'll be dipped in wax and called
> a candle if that happens."
I'm pretty sure this was when 2 fans confirmed that the Hyatt Regency (the
official BotCon'03 hotel and the only one providing the extra "incentive"
exclusives) was completely *sold out* as of Saturday afternoon. Glen was
almost in shock since he said 3H reserved 600 rooms for the convention and
with a conservative estimate of at least 2 people per room that meant that a
minimum of 1200 fans were planning to pre-register. My guess is that a lot
of people were just "covering their bets" in case they went next year since
they could always cancel before the downpayment was due next July. Hydra and
I half-joked that a bunch of dealers had reserved the rooms and were
planning to auction them off on eBay but the numbers
involved would have been too incredible to fathom.
> BotCon Europe will have five exclusive items (not neccessarily toys).
Glen also added the possibility that some of the exclusive toys might be
available through other channels (like BotCon or the aforementioned Fan
Club) when one fan asked if these toys would be available outside of
Euro-BotCon ("Ebay!").
.
When asked about the voice actors,
> Michelle refused to answer the question explicitly, although she did say
> that the cast would be announced very soon. She didn't even want to
confirm
> that the voices we'd heard the previous night were in fact Kaye and Chalk,
> so Glen stepped in and answered the question for her, confirming those
> roles.
To which Michelle responded "I'll pretend I didn't hear that" in a
half-joking manner. I just hope Glen's enthusiasm didn't jeopardize 3H's new
relationship with Hasbro in any way.
>
> Exclusives
> On the other hand, I
> can understand wanting to make the pre-reg exclusive be not all that
much
> different or "more" special than toys available to regular attendees,
> sort of like my hope that the hotel exclusive next year will not be
> all that different from one of the others. (Like, hotel exclusive is
> a Sideswipe, while one of the regular exclusives is a Red Alert.)
Looks like I'm not the only one thinking this. :)
>
> There were no fan panels this year. With the exception of the TFMST, most
> fan panels have been sort of lackluster anyway, so this isn't a huge loss
> in practice, but in principle I think it's important for fan panels to be
> there. They will make a comeback in the future, though. This year was
> sort of an aberration.
Well, to be fair, they also said it was because a lot of fans came up with
awesome ideas for panels but they never *followed through* on them. They'd
pitch an idea for a panel and then 3H would give it their approval but
they'd never hear from the fan again. 3H needs more than just an idea to
make it reality. They need commitment as well as details. Requests for
equipment that the panel might need, for instance, are often met with
silence. Other times, 3H only gets the needed details at the very last
minute and then it's too late to get the equipment or even announce the
panel in the program so attendees know it even exists.
> Guests who were dressed extremely non-formally were admitted to the semi-
> formal dinner yet again this year. The greatest offender is, I think,
> Particle Man. I know he reads this group sometimes... while he was,
> technically, wearing the required clothing (slacks, shirt, tie, jacket) he
> intentionally chooses his outfit to look as ridiculous and garish as
> possible. It really detracts from the whole "formal" atmosphere, IMO, and
> I hope he'll cut it out in the future.
Yeah, it really isn't even "semi" formal anymore. It's become more of a
"come-anyway-you-damn-well-please" dinner. While I can understand that some
fans might be a bit miffed if they were denied access after paying in full
up front, it's also their responsibility to see that they're able to comply
with the rules. If you don't own anything suitable, either buy something or
just don't go. It's really not that hard.
>> On a similar note, the videotape bootlegger who was at the convention
last
> year was there again. (Or, perhaps, a different bootlegger.) Although
> there was no porn shown on his TVs during the convention this year, he
still
> had "girls gone wild" type videos for sale and out in the open. And,
please
> remember, these aren't even legitimate copies of "girls gone wild",
they're
> bootlegs sold as essentially full price, just like all the other stuff he
> sells. (Almost none of which was even remotely related to Transformers,
of
> course.) This guy makes his living by selling illegal copies of stuff,
and
> I'm really surprised that 3H would allow such a shady operation in their
> convention. Many of you know that I support things like fansubs and free
> comic scans for products that aren't otherwise available -- the critical
> factor is that these things be distributed for the sake of helping fans
get
> them, and not for a profit. Distribution at-cost. This guy does not do
> that. I really hope to never see him at BotCon again.
He did have Transformers tapes but that's not really your point, is it?
I'm a bit divided on the issue of bootlegging tapes. Yes, it's clearly
illegal but often it's the only channel for
getting certain titles or movies. I freely admit that I frequently buy tapes
from such dealers at other conventions.
Usually it's an out-of-print horror movie or a Saturday Morning TV series
from the 70s or early 80s that hasn't
been aired since but the truth of the matter is I buy them. There are many,
*many* episodes or movies that I wouldn't own otherwise.
As for bootleg tapes appearing at BotCon...I think it was inevitable. As a
convention grows and attracts greater numbers, it's bound to attract
tape-bootleggers. I honestly can't think of a single convention I've
attended that *hasn't* had someone hawking bootleg tapes. I even see them at
local 1-day-only toyshows so I'm not surprised to see them at BotCon.
The only thing that does surprise me is that I have yet to see anyone
selling these on DVD or CD as these things are all over the auction sites.
> Thanks, 3H! We love you!
And how!
-Star Saber (needs to finish up *his* report but by the time he finishes,
there probably won't be anything in it aside from personal experiences that
hasn't been convered by someone else first)
Zobovor
>Steve-o's BotCon 2002 Report: Zobovor Edition
You know, I was going to ask you if you were being snarky about this whole
"Zobovor Edition" thing, perhaps suggesting that I shouldn't have been whining
about what people put into their BotCon reports... but you know what? I don't
care. This was the best BotCon report ever. (And I'm not just spouting some
inane catch phrase--I actually mean it.)
>This report includes SPOILERS for BotCon exclusive toys (including
>their tech specs)
While I'm leaning these days toward the notion that the identities of the toys
really only need to be a surprise for the BotCon attendees, and not the rest of
us, I still think it's cool that you're spoiler-protecting them. :)
>S
>
>P
>
>O
>
>I
>
>L
>
>E
>
>R
>
>S
>Glyph, a G1 Bumblebee (keychain) done with a blue body and just
>barely off-white undercarraige/windows.
Wait a minute... Glyph's secondary color *isn't* the same as Tap-Out's? I
would have assumed that their windows and body parts would have been part of
the same production mold. I had this whole idea that this was why Hubcap
existed (they had to do something with the black Cliffjumper parts if they
wanted to continue selling Bumblebee without him), and why Hubcap was sold for
G2 (see last comment), *and* why both Cliffjumper and Bumblebee were released
as keychains simultaneously.
Dude, you've just destroyed everything I ever knew about these molds. /:)
(Side note: Somebody originally reported that the character's name was
Top-Out, and I had a bitch of a time trying to figure out what in the heck that
could possibly mean. I finally decided it was some kind of a reference to the
fact that he topped out at a certain speed, and even made a gag-picture to go
on the ZMFTS home page. [It's still there if you want to see it.] Of course,
it turns out that the character's name is Tap-Out, with an "a," which makes
pefect sense. Duh.)
> Two ads bothered me:
>
> o Both Allsparks have advertisements, and the "fake" one which still
> lives on EZboard actually has an ad twice as large as the Allspark
> which was not taken over in a coup and has the blessing of the
> original Allspark founder. EZboard Allspark is apparently no longer
> calling itself Allspark Classic in an attempt to differentiate the two
> boards. Instead, they are striving for confusion, and even said
> "accept no imitations" in their ad.
So, um, uh, what's the big deal? They're just recycling an old name, right?
:)
> o An ad for DecepticonMatrix.com appeared. I officially despise this
> website. They're lower than Bigbot. I can only imagine that 3H didn't
> check up too carefully on the sites they were accepting ads for.
My, how charming. I've actually never heard of this site before, but thanks
for warning us about them.
>The dinner exclusive had been previously meant to be an animation cel
>from the Armada cartoon, but that plan became mired in legal hassles
>somehow related to the decision to air the series exclusively on
>Cartoon Network.
I wonder what the problem was? Does Cartoon Network have its own plans for the
cels, or are they just being overprotective of their property?
> Their first attempt at a "fix" was to get Storm Jets for everybody, but
>Takara wasn't interested in producing them separately or something; I
>didn't quite understand what Glen said.
That strikes me as weird, too. I mean, Takara's already producing Storm Jets
in mass quantities for TRU Japan; what difference would a thousand or two more
make?
Anyway, thank you again for not filling this report with "such-and-such guest
rules because of how drunk he got or who he groped in the elevator" sort of
nonsense. I'm sure that sort of thing is a lot of fun at the convention, but I
don't think it translates too well into text most of the time, and I've skipped
reading lots of BotCon reports as a result. You rule, Steve-o. :)
>Basically, a sequence of bad luck is what resulted in us walking away
>with no tangible exclusive.
That's unfortunate. You know what I would like to have seen, regardless of
whether these other plans had worked out, though? Showing the unaired RiD
episodes at the convention is one thing, but what would have *really* made me
happy is if they'd packaged them up on videotape, and made that one of the
exclusives. I mean, it's nice that some of the fans got to see the episodes at
all, but I'm worried that FOX! Kids will never air them, which means that for
all intents and purposes, these episodes will only exist in the memories of a
handful of fans.
>One of the things Glen has a license for is an official Transformers Fan
>Club. It appears uncertain whether this club will be aimed at kids or
>older collectors, or both. Among the hopes/plans for the club are a
>publication/magazine of some sort and annual toy exclusives.
If it's done by the BotCon people, it *has* to be aimed at the collectors.
That's what fan clubs are *for,* fer crying out loud. I'd really like to see
something along the same vein as the Star Wars fan club, which ends up offering
toys that Hasbro likely couldn't have sold at retail due to low interest, or
getting a second production run on the Death Star Trooper and Ree-Yees to give
collectors a second chance to get those toys... that sort of thing.
>The scavenger hunt was cancelled near the last minute. The reason for
>this is that they simply didn't have enough time left over to plan it out.
>They give games their lowest priority in planning because they consider
>them to be less important than things like the exclusive merchandise.
>So, it fell by the wayside.
That's... pretty disappointing. It was the one thing I was most excited about
hearing about after the convention, since I was dying to know what this
mysterious prize valued at $1000 was going to be. (The more I think about it,
the more I think it was a complete set of Wreckers toys. I guess it could have
been the entire first wave of Armada toys, though. Seems like that wouldn't
amount to $1000, though.)
>The toys came in late -- only two days before the event. They had to
>pack 1500 toys in the space of six hours.
Wow. And I thought I had it bad trying to meet my CybCon deadline. :)
>The sooner 3H gets committments and money from the fans, the
>sooner they can figure out what their budget is going to be like, and the
>more time and effort they can put into planning the convention's events.
For some reason, I always thought they used the money collected from each
BotCon in order to prepare for the following one. Didn't they say this at one
point?
>One of the lead guys from Takara's design team was at the panel, but
>sitting in the front row of the audience. Aaron described him as his
>counterpart in Japan. Another guy in the Takara design team has been
>with Transformers since the Pre-TF Diaclone days. (Aaron chose to
>say it as Diakron, interestingly.) I don't know what that guy's name is,
>but I wish I did. He deserves to be famous.
Is this Diaclone guy the same one who opted not to attend the convention
because of the "negativity of the fandom"? I think his name would probably be
the one listed in that patent database, the one that Freds Workshop links to so
that we can see all the original design sketches for the Transformers toys.
It's late and I need to go to sleep after this post, but does anybody else want
to do some research and make a list of which names are attributed to which
toys?
>Lastly, he also brought up the old "there's more than one Aaron in the
>world, so there can be more than one Mirage on Cybertron" thing.
Grr.
>They continue to choose plastic over metal for the toys because A)
>metal is more expensive and 2) diecast metal is less versitile or
>"flexible" in terms of what sorts of shapes you can make it into.
...Really? That seems odd to me. Are you sure they weren't referring to the
literal flexibility of the plastic itself? I mean, plastic bends slightly, for
example, when you pop a ball-and-socket joint into place. You obviously can't
do that same joint with metal. It seems weird that they would say that you
can't mold metal into as many shapes. That just doesn't make sense at all.
>The term "alt modes" was used on one of Hasbro's slides. I don't
>remember ever seeing that fan term used in an official capacity before
>this.
Me neither. That's interesting. :)
>They're making the vehicle modes believable, but not match real world
>vehicles exactly because they don't want exact vehicle modes to get in
>the way of other features. Aaron used the example that if you lop off
>the front of a Lamborghini so you can put on a cool launcher, then it's
>not really a Lamborghini anymore anyway.
Actually, that's a good point, and that's one of the things that bothered me
about some of the G1 toys. Tracks just looked goofy wearing his missile
launcher in car mode, for example. And I always hated the way the roof-mounted
guns looked on Pretender Bumblebee and Jazz.
>For the Mini-Con faction insignia, they intentionally decided to go with
>something besides a face. They were hoping to evoke an image of
>something like a circuitboard with the design they chose. They
>showed examples of some earlier ideas for the insignia. There were
>face-like symbols, and symbols with the "M" like the final version. I
>quickly sketched the face insignias in my notebook, and I'll post tidied
>versions of them later for the curious.
Ooh! Good show of foresight, Steve-o! Yes, please upload these. :)
>AFAIK, though, nobody got around to asking why Transformers had to
>be trilingual while other Hasbro action figures are not.
But a number of Hasbro toy lines *are* trilingual these days. Back when RiD
first started coming out, I noticed that the Jurassic Park 3 toys had the same
trilingual packaging. There was at least one other, also by Hasbro, but I
can't remember what it was right now.
>They devoted a full slide to this odd business of changing Hot Shot's
>head. It was titled something like "we're listening", and apparently, a
>lot of people have been complaining about Hot Hot's facial expression.
>This was news to me. Maybe it's a big debate on the Allspark or
>something? Anyway, they showed pictures of a remolded head which
>is very boring and blank, unlike his present happy face. After the
>panel, one of the reps (Joe, I think) said in conversation that the new
>head would probably only appear on the Japanese version of the toy.
That actually leads me to wonder if it's not Takara themselves who didn't like
the original face sculpt. I don't really like the idea of Japan getting
differently-sculpted Armada toys, though. It doesn't seem fair, somehow. On
the other hand, the RiD toys were different from the Car Robots toys, and
superior in some ways, so I guess it's their turn to get the "improved" toys
this time, eh?
>This modification was actually not good enough to pass the regs,
>apparently because his gun mode *shape* is so realistic.
There is one really obvious solution here: Give him an outer-surface remold
(think Beast Wars K-9), and sell him as Megatron in his Cybertronic gun mode.
He'd still have to have the orange cap (even the space guns TRU carries has
those), but maybe he could have the right color scheme that way. And, really,
a Cybertronic gun would be pretty cool. :)
>Andrew Frankel is personally responsible for us getting Air Attack
>Primal, Scourge, Fort Max, Heroes of Cybertron, and apparently the
>Mega SCF PVCs will be coming out as well (the slide said "5.5 inch
>Japanese action figures".
If you're reading this, Andrew--thanks!
>And, of course, they are releasing figures that were "chase" figures in
>Japan.
I hope that means there's a chance we can get that Emperor Starscream PVC. I
really love that sculpt. :)
>Andrew mentioned the risk of "impalement" on toy shards,
>which I thought was pretty funny.
Well, it's good to know that the image of small children being gutted with
little jagged-edged Fort Max bits brings a smile to your face. /:)
>RID was brought in as a "stopgap" to give them a full year to figure out
>what to do next. So, that's no longer just fan speculation.
I thought that *was* the official word from Hasbro, though. Maybe they said
something last year at BotCon?
>Storm Jet and the Autobot 3-pack in RID had their sparks left as-is and
>simply painted over. If you scrape away that red, you should see their
>old Vehicon sparks underneath.
No, the spark crystals weren't painted; they were molded in solid plastic. The
original translucent versions had the faction symbols imprinted into the bottom
of the plastic.
>The Hasbro person answering this question said that the sparks are
>"gang molded" which was a new term to me. Basically, lots and lots of
>them are made all at once.
I think what this probably means is that since the spark crystals themselves
are so small, they fill up the mold with multiple copies of those parts so they
don't waste space on the production mold.
>At the 3H panel, somebody asked if 3H had considered using the
>aborted deluxe-size Obsidian toy as an exclusive. 3H said that no
>tooling exists for that toy.
I always wondered how that rumor got started. People used to talk about that,
along with the Deluxe Nightscream, like it was commonly-accepted fact or
something...
>They clearly felt like this was an unwelcome intrustion upon their work
>by the corporation, which I can totally understand. At the same time, I
>thought the references were cool and funny; they made me happy, but I
>don't think they should be forced upon the writers.
Why not? How is this any different than Hasbro mandating which toys need to
appear in a given episode? (I know they obviously couldn't have done that with
RiD, specifically, but you know what I mean.)
>Bob said he thinks the Beast Machines treatment (which went to Skir
>and Isenberg as story editors) was written by Marv Wolfman. Did we
>know that already?
Yes, we did. Back when we knew it as Beast Hunters, it was revealed that Marv
Wolfman came up with the original premise for the show (Vehicons take over
Cybertron), but it was Skir who added the spiritual angle and the focus on the
missing sparks.
>When Simon was brought on board for Beast Wars, his first question to
>Bob was "Who can I kill?"
WAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! Hoo boy. That Furman.
>The two of them reiterated that they had really grandiose place for the
>Nemesis story. One thing they wanted was to pit BW and G1
>characters against each other in battle to shut up / irritate the people
>on ATT who were saying that the Beast Warriors would get creamed if
>they came up against a G1 robot.
Heh heh heh heh.
>Neil Kaplan filled in as Megatron for one RID episode when the Megs
>actor was on an extended vacation on a boat in France.
Now that I'm a little more familiar with these characters' voices, I really
need to figure out which episode that was. (I'd heard this tidbit already, but
I'd actually assumed they were referring to one of the toy commercials.)
>While a couple of the criticisms I heard had some legitimacy, he
>mostly seemed to be saying "Armada suxxorz". Most of his
>comments didn't strike me as rational, although, admittedly, at both of
>the the two times I am aware of him making such comments he was
>drunk.
Uh, was this during the panel proper, or afterwards in the hotel or a
restaurant or whatever?
>Just to make sure everyone's up to speed: Recording for G1 was done
>before the animation, as with most American cartoons. All the actors
>sat together in a single room where they could play off of each other
>and interact.
I'm sure Rik would point this out if he were here, but not all the actors could
*fit* into the same room for some episodes of G1. There are a few episodes in
which one character speaks after the other, and the words makes sense, but
based on the inflection, you can tell that the latter actor never heard the
former actor's delivery. (My default example for this is Air Raid taunting
Dirge in "Aerial Assault.")
>It was, apparently, largely due to Burr that the Screen Actors Guild
>eventually instituted time limits on how long members could be forced
>to work at a time.
Heh. I would really love to learn more about this guy. I hope Rik comes up
with an interview for him soon.
>Dreamwave is planning to do roughly one 6-issue G1 miniseries each
>year.
Uh... why? :)
>They are also planning a TF Universe-like book of character profiles.
>This book will cover all of Generation One, with 371 separate
>characters.
I'm going to have to do the math tomorrow, but I know already that there are
characters missing from that tally. Maybe it's the Micromasters, or maybe it's
the non-featured characters (Roadbuster, Whirl, Deluxe Insecticons) who are
missing... I'll figure it out. :)
>Chris Sarracini is a high school teacher in Toronto.
Obviously not an English teacher. /:)
>An upcoming "mega-lithograph" has been advertised. It will be 3 feet
>by five feet, and consists of all of the mini-posters from the insides of
>the G1 books (twelve in all; six issues times two covers each), which
>all link together into a giant picture with hundreds of characters.
Hey, remember the complaints from the Marvel letters page that there weren't
any Transformers in the Marvel Universe poster? Well, now we're finally
getting one! :)
>Having one of the exclusives be a G1 minicar was a great surprise, but
> I would have preferred not to have two of them.
As I said above, I'm confused as to why there *wouldn't* be two of them. /:)
>Guests who were dressed extremely non-formally were admitted to the
>semi-formal dinner yet again this year.
I may end up commenting on this later... but not tonight.
> This guy makes his living by selling illegal copies of stuff, and
>I'm really surprised that 3H would allow such a shady operation in their
>convention.
You might want to e-mail them and let them know about this. It's possible that
they were so busy that they didn't even notice it. I've heard a few complaints
now about unsavory BotCon stuff that 3H didn't do anything about (two of them
from you, now) and I think the problem may be that it's impossible for the
staff to keep tabs on everything that happens at the con.
Anyway, thanks again for not dragging this out into some huge "and then I went
to such-and-such fan's room party and got drunk, and then we went to
such-and-such restaurant and harassed the waitresses" sort of review. This was
a *huge* review as it stands, one that was jam-packed with information, and I
really appreciate getting to read it. :)
--
Zobovor
Go on the ZMFTS Scavenger Hunt and win toys!
http://members.aol.com/zobovor/index.html
Xis
"Zobovor" <zob...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020801061418...@mb-bk.aol.com...
> Wait a minute... Glyph's secondary color *isn't* the same as Tap-Out's? I
> would have assumed that their windows and body parts would have been part
of
> the same production mold. I had this whole idea that this was why Hubcap
> existed (they had to do something with the black Cliffjumper parts if they
> wanted to continue selling Bumblebee without him), and why Hubcap was sold
for
> G2 (see last comment), *and* why both Cliffjumper and Bumblebee were
released
> as keychains simultaneously.
>
> Dude, you've just destroyed everything I ever knew about these molds. /:)
I don't have the toys with me, but I remember them being the same shade of
grey.
> That's... pretty disappointing. It was the one thing I was most excited
about
> hearing about after the convention, since I was dying to know what this
> mysterious prize valued at $1000 was going to be. (The more I think about
it,
> the more I think it was a complete set of Wreckers toys. I guess it could
have
> been the entire first wave of Armada toys, though. Seems like that
wouldn't
> amount to $1000, though.)
No way it could have been the Armada toys - all of RID cost only about $500
retail.
> >They continue to choose plastic over metal for the toys because A)
> >metal is more expensive and 2) diecast metal is less versitile or
> >"flexible" in terms of what sorts of shapes you can make it into.
>
> ...Really? That seems odd to me. Are you sure they weren't referring to
the
> literal flexibility of the plastic itself? I mean, plastic bends
slightly, for
> example, when you pop a ball-and-socket joint into place. You obviously
can't
> do that same joint with metal. It seems weird that they would say that
you
> can't mold metal into as many shapes. That just doesn't make sense at
all.
They were actually quite clear about this. Metal meant less flexibility for
what kind of shapes you can make.
> >For the Mini-Con faction insignia, they intentionally decided to go with
> >something besides a face. They were hoping to evoke an image of
> >something like a circuitboard with the design they chose. They
> >showed examples of some earlier ideas for the insignia. There were
> >face-like symbols, and symbols with the "M" like the final version. I
> >quickly sketched the face insignias in my notebook, and I'll post tidied
> >versions of them later for the curious.
>
> Ooh! Good show of foresight, Steve-o! Yes, please upload these. :)
They thought the image of a face would be too strong for the Minicons, who
they envisioned as a 'lost race'.
> >Storm Jet and the Autobot 3-pack in RID had their sparks left as-is and
> >simply painted over. If you scrape away that red, you should see their
> >old Vehicon sparks underneath.
>
> No, the spark crystals weren't painted; they were molded in solid plastic.
The
> original translucent versions had the faction symbols imprinted into the
bottom
> of the plastic.
I thought that was odd - I knew the crystal was solid plastic, but the
Hasbro guy thought it was paint.
Robert Powers
Behold! On 01 Aug 2002 03:18:06 GMT, Aaron F. Bourque
<aaronb...@aol.commandment> did speak:
>>Gautier explained that doing bad impersonations is a great
>>way to come up with good voices for new characters.
>
>It's also a great way to get funny looks on the bus!
>
>. . .
>
>What?
Actually, that reminds me... I seem to recall one of the voice actors
telling a story very much like this. He (or another actor) was trying to
nail down a manaical laugh, and was rehearsing on the bus or subway or
something. At the end of the ride, he looked up to discover that he was
very much alone at his end of the car. Heh heh.
Anyone wanna clear up the details of that? I swear my brain was not
running on all cylinders this weekend. I recall almost everything
that Steve-o mentioned, but I couldn't think of even a quarter of it
on my own. That's the last time I stay up all night before a BotCon...
--
Robert Powers
repo...@uwm.edu ________________________________________
| Built St. Louis |
| http://www.BuiltStLouis.net/ |
|________ Tracking the city's endangered architecture _|
cappeca
> In the pre-reg box everyone got one of three prints on cardstock from the
> TF Genesis art book: 1) Optimus and Rodimus Primes from G1, drawn by
> Makotron,
was to be shown at Botcon. It was done without his permission, and the
drawing itself was not in the final version.
You can check this thread:
http://www.2005boards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3536
Cesar
Mouse_Pad
I didn't take the time to read Steve-O's report, since I figure I know 98%
of what he said already. I do want to follow up on Zob's comments,
though...
> >S
> >
> >P
> >
> >O
> >
> >I
> >
> >L
> >
> >E
> >
> >R
> >
> >S
>
> >Glyph, a G1 Bumblebee (keychain) done with a blue body and just
> >barely off-white undercarraige/windows.
>
> Wait a minute... Glyph's secondary color *isn't* the same as Tap-Out's? I
Glyph's grey is much lighter than Tap-Out's. I, too, had assumed there was
some mold-sharing involved, but apparently not. At least, not with the
keychains. Also, there were many more Glyphs produced than Tap-Outs
(presumably), so if there were mold-sharing, there would be lots of extra
Tap-Out parts laying around.
I, personally, wouldn't call Glyph's grey "barely off-white" though. It's
definitely light grey to my eyes.
> > o An ad for DecepticonMatrix.com appeared. I officially despise this
> > website. They're lower than Bigbot. I can only imagine that 3H
didn't
> > check up too carefully on the sites they were accepting ads for.
>
> My, how charming. I've actually never heard of this site before, but
thanks
> for warning us about them.
I don't know. If 3H started declining ads because of the fandom's general
concensus of their reputation, things could start getting pretty hairy.
They might even end up with a lawsuit on their hands.
> all, but I'm worried that FOX! Kids will never air them, which means that
for
> all intents and purposes, these episodes will only exist in the memories
of a
> handful of fans.
I figure they'll show up on DVD eventually. It may be fifteen years...
> That's... pretty disappointing. It was the one thing I was most excited
about
> hearing about after the convention, since I was dying to know what this
> mysterious prize valued at $1000 was going to be. (The more I think about
it,
> the more I think it was a complete set of Wreckers toys. I guess it could
have
> been the entire first wave of Armada toys, though. Seems like that
wouldn't
> amount to $1000, though.)
They said what the prize would have been, though I don't honestly remember
exactly what it was. I'm thinking it was the first two waves of Armada
toys, maybe some previous BC exclusives, and a little cash.
Personally, I'm not too disappointed about the loss of the scavenger hunt.
The idea just didn't excite me in the first place.
> For some reason, I always thought they used the money collected from each
> BotCon in order to prepare for the following one. Didn't they say this at
one
> point?
Incidentally, Jon commented in the bar on Sunday night that he wasn't
certain yet if this year's convention would make a profit. Obviously, they
can't rely *too* heavily on one year's profits for the next convention.
> Is this Diaclone guy the same one who opted not to attend the convention
> because of the "negativity of the fandom"? I think his name would
probably be
I don't remember for certain, but I don't think so. I think this was
another guy who hadn't been around as long.
> >Lastly, he also brought up the old "there's more than one Aaron in the
> >world, so there can be more than one Mirage on Cybertron" thing.
>
> Grr.
*snerk*
Nothing personal, Zob, but it made me quite happy that Hasbro's reasons for
name reuse are exactly the same reasons that some of us have been repeating
for so long.
> ...Really? That seems odd to me. Are you sure they weren't referring to
the
> literal flexibility of the plastic itself? I mean, plastic bends
slightly, for
> example, when you pop a ball-and-socket joint into place. You obviously
can't
> do that same joint with metal. It seems weird that they would say that
you
> can't mold metal into as many shapes. That just doesn't make sense at
all.
Consider the molding process of a socket from a ball-and-socket joint. If
the socket is made out of plastic, you can pop it right out of the mold. If
it were to be made of metal, though, the mold itself would have to be
flexible in order to pop the ball out of the inflexible metal. A mold soft
enough to be flexible probably wouldn't stand up to the heat and pressure of
having molten metal poured into it.
> >This modification was actually not good enough to pass the regs,
> >apparently because his gun mode *shape* is so realistic.
>
> There is one really obvious solution here: Give him an outer-surface
remold
> (think Beast Wars K-9), and sell him as Megatron in his Cybertronic gun
mode.
> He'd still have to have the orange cap (even the space guns TRU carries
has
> those), but maybe he could have the right color scheme that way. And,
really,
> a Cybertronic gun would be pretty cool. :)
One of the reasons they said that they didn't want to go as far as they
would have to in order to release Megatron is that it would no longer be a
fair representation of the original toy. Remolding it like that would
further defeat the purpose of a reissue.
> I always wondered how that rumor got started. People used to talk about
that,
> along with the Deluxe Nightscream, like it was commonly-accepted fact or
> something...
Well, it did show up on a late BM toy list. As for deluxe Nightscream, I
have no clue where that idea came from.
> >While a couple of the criticisms I heard had some legitimacy, he
> >mostly seemed to be saying "Armada suxxorz". Most of his
> >comments didn't strike me as rational, although, admittedly, at both of
> >the the two times I am aware of him making such comments he was
> >drunk.
>
> Uh, was this during the panel proper, or afterwards in the hotel or a
> restaurant or whatever?
Neil Kaplan? Not during the panel, no. It was "after hours." See Susp's
report, if he ever gets it written, for the elevator incident. I was in
that elevator, but I got off at a lower floor, dang it.
> >Dreamwave is planning to do roughly one 6-issue G1 miniseries each
> >year.
>
> Uh... why? :)
Because they love G1.
Did Steve-O's report mention that they're planning a BW series? They are.
> >Guests who were dressed extremely non-formally were admitted to the
> >semi-formal dinner yet again this year.
>
> I may end up commenting on this later... but not tonight.
For the most part, though, people were dressed appropriately. I only saw a
handful of people who should have been kicked out on their asses. Like the
guy in the Autobot hockey jersey...
> Anyway, thanks again for not dragging this out into some huge "and then I
went
> to such-and-such fan's room party and got drunk, and then we went to
> such-and-such restaurant and harassed the waitresses" sort of review.
This was
> a *huge* review as it stands, one that was jam-packed with information,
and I
> really appreciate getting to read it. :)
JaAM!
ADY
John DeLuna
> >S
> >
> >P
> >
> >O
> >
> >I
> >
> >L
> >
> >E
> >
> >R
> >
> >S
>
(Space, just in case.)
*snip Allspark name issues*
>
> So, um, uh, what's the big deal? They're just recycling an old name, right?
> :)
>
No, one entity is trying to con people into believing they're
*another* entity. Like a knock-off company selling/promoting
"Transformers" instead of "The Transformers." They aren't recycling a
forgotten, previously inactive name. They're trying to confuse people
into switching services.
> You know what I would like to have seen, regardless of
> whether these other plans had worked out, though? Showing the unaired RiD
> episodes at the convention is one thing, but what would have *really* made me
> happy is if they'd packaged them up on videotape, and made that one of the
> exclusives.
Except FOX and/or Kid Rhino would ask for their cut of the deal.
That, or they'd just laugh at the idea of sharing possible profits
with anyone else.
*Scavenger Hunt cancelled*
> That's... pretty disappointing. It was the one thing I was most excited about
> hearing about after the convention, since I was dying to know what this
> mysterious prize valued at $1000 was going to be. (The more I think about it,
> the more I think it was a complete set of Wreckers toys. I guess it could have
> been the entire first wave of Armada toys, though. Seems like that wouldn't
> amount to $1000, though.)
>
This was asked at the 3H panel. And the grand prize was going to be,
IIRC, *two* of every Armada toy so far. Including Prime. Plus all
the BC stuff this year, and possibly wave-2 Armada stuff. Though I'm
not sure about the wave-2 toys.
> >Lastly, he also brought up the old "there's more than one Aaron in the
> >world, so there can be more than one Mirage on Cybertron" thing.
>
> Grr.
>
Aw. I thought it was a perfect answer... logical and acceptable. I'm
sure there's another "Zobovor" out there. (Okay, maybe not.)
*Kaplan's Armada-attitude*
> >While a couple of the criticisms I heard had some legitimacy, he
> >mostly seemed to be saying "Armada suxxorz". Most of his
> >comments didn't strike me as rational, although, admittedly, at both of
> >the the two times I am aware of him making such comments he was
> >drunk.
>
> Uh, was this during the panel proper, or afterwards in the hotel or a
> restaurant or whatever?
>
When I talked to him, personally, it was Satuday night at the Hotel's
bar/lounge. He was probably drunk, or buzzed. But still of sound
mind and body. And besides, sometimes honesty comes with alcohol.
He's just very ant-Armada. And said Hasbro didn't tell his agent
anything when he fished for a spot on the show. (They aren't
obligated to, anyway.) And he's very anti-Canada when it comes to VA
studios and such.
This is understandable. Two different countries, two unions, BIG
competition for jobs. And Kaplan shouldn't be too bitter, from what I
gather he's not under any studio contract, but is in the VA/actor
union. Hasbro handed Armada to Ocean Studios. One contract, one
headache. /:)
-John DeLuna
Thylacine 2000
> Showing the unaired RiD
> episodes at the convention is one thing, but what would have *really* made me
> happy is if they'd packaged them up on videotape, and made that one of the
> exclusives. I mean, it's nice that some of the fans got to see the episodes > at all, but I'm worried that FOX! Kids will never air them, which means that > for all intents and purposes, these episodes will only exist in the memories > of a handful of fans.
I missed all of the "too hot for TV" RID episodes. They were all set
to air during the guest panels, if I recall. I don't know anybody who
actually got to see even one from beginning to end.
>
> [Scavenger Hunt]
> That's... pretty disappointing. It was the one thing I was most excited about
> hearing about after the convention, since I was dying to know what this
> mysterious prize valued at $1000 was going to be. (The more I think about it,
> the more I think it was a complete set of Wreckers toys. I guess it could have
> been the entire first wave of Armada toys, though. Seems like that wouldn't
> amount to $1000, though.)
Glen answered that, too. By and large, the prizes ended up being
stuff that they auctioned off for charity at the end of the
convention--largely a grab-bag of random small JBW figures, as well as
Stormjets and Unicorns, plus lots of AR Wave 1 (including Optimus
Prime), and the Wave 2 Minicon Race Team. Oh, and kits to make an
opened Metalforce Prime set look like it was still MISB.... which
strikes me as just a little bit questionable, but whatever.
>
> >For the Mini-Con faction insignia, they intentionally decided to go with
> >something besides a face. They were hoping to evoke an image of
> >something like a circuitboard with the design they chose. They
> >showed examples of some earlier ideas for the insignia. There were
> >face-like symbols, and symbols with the "M" like the final version.
The reason they gave for this was that they wanted it to be very clear
that the Minicons were something different from Autobots and
Decepticons, very much their own "race". I'd also imagine that, at
the scale of the Minicon logo--3mm or so--faces wouldn't show up as
well as the "M".
> >And, of course, they are releasing figures that were "chase" figures in
> >Japan.
>
> I hope that means there's a chance we can get that Emperor Starscream PVC. I
> really love that sculpt. :)
I talked to Frankel after the panel ended. He said that the Mega-SCF
figures were very likely for U.S. release, that they would definitely
continue to pull "classic" characters out of Takara's PVC acts for
future HOC assortments, and that he definitely deliberately wanted to
cherry-pick the best of the chase figures out for standard HOC
release. He also said there would never be anything like a "chase
figure" in HOC--they'd all be equally available.
> [Neil Kaplan bashing AR] at both of
> >the the two times I am aware of him making such comments he was
> >drunk.
>
> Uh, was this during the panel proper, or afterwards in the hotel or a
> restaurant or whatever?
Friday night after the dinner, in the hotel. And also Saturday night
when he was chatting with fans in the lobby. And possibly also Sunday
night, too. If Susp doesn't tell the "Neil Kaplan in the Elevator"
story soon, I guess I will, since I was there too.
> >They are also planning a TF Universe-like book of character profiles.
> >This book will cover all of Generation One, with 371 separate
> >characters.
I seem to recall they said that the profiles would be all-new text,
and wouldn't incoprorate the techspec numbers or quotes, just because
that would be too difficult to hunt down for everybody. Which doesn't
inspire confidence at all, frankly. I still don't think DW has ever
gotten a G1 character right.
Derik Smith
>tech specs) and the first episode of the Armada cartoon.
*taps foot impatiently*
I don't suppose you have Catscan's tech-spec handy, do you? Just because,
you know, i haven't seen a copy of it posted anywhere. I gather it's
SOMEWHERE, since Zac Williams has seen it. But I have searched half-assedly
and have seen neither hide not hairball of it.
Oh and Zob? Does it really matter WHY it's the Zobovor edition, as long
as it actually embodies the coherence and attention to useful detial the name
implies? Never assume that bitching about how you'd like to see things done is
shouting into the wind, especially if you're right. I enjoyed reading it. ;)
-Derik
"You have zero talent. Give up writing." -Yuki Eiri
"In film you will find four basic storylines. Man versus man, man versus
nature, nature versus nature, and dog versus vampire." - Steven Spielberg
I probably don't care what you think
Steve-o Stonebraker
>
> "Zobovor" <zob...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020801061418...@mb-bk.aol.com...
>
> I didn't take the time to read Steve-O's report, since I figure I know 98%
> of what he said already. I do want to follow up on Zob's comments,
> though...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > >S
> > >
> > >P
> > >
> > >O
> > >
> > >I
> > >
> > >L
> > >
> > >E
> > >
> > >R
> > >
> > >S
> >
> concensus of their reputation, things could start getting pretty hairy.
> They might even end up with a lawsuit on their hands.
I agree -- I'm not saying I think they should decline ads from unpopular
sites. The two Allspark thing, for example, can't be helped. This other
site though, is so clearly criminal -- literally -- with their tape
selling and plagerized episode guides. I would think 3H would not want to
appear to be endorsing them in any way.
> Did Steve-O's report mention that they're planning a BW series? They are.
Gah! Yet another thing I forgot... I'm making a "version 2" of my report
as people remind me of these things... From what I recall, they don't
have any real plans yet other than "we're going to do one". Was that
right?
> For the most part, though, people were dressed appropriately. I only saw a
> handful of people who should have been kicked out on their asses. Like the
> guy in the Autobot hockey jersey...
Oh, yeah, I agree. The people dressed inappropriately were a small, small
minority. Like, less than ten I think out of the 4 or 5 hundred people in
attendance.
Zobovor
>Yeah, it really isn't even "semi" formal anymore. It's become more of a
>"come-anyway-you-damn-well-please" dinner. While I can understand
>that some fans might be a bit miffed if they were denied access after
>paying in full up front, it's also their responsibility to see that they're
>able to comply with the rules. If you don't own anything suitable, either
>buy something or just don't go. It's really not that hard.
Okay, here my official position on this: It would be one thing if the 3H was
kicking people out of the dinner for inappropriate dress. If that were the
case, then yeah, people need to follow the rules. If it doesn't bother the
organizers enough to do anything about it (or at least issue a stern warning
about next year), then I don't think it should bother anyone else, either.
Steve-o Stonebraker
> > Collector's Plate:
> > Artwork by Andy Wildman of RID Prime strangling one of RID Megatron's
> > dragon heads.
>
> Wildman did the art? I'll have to take a closer look at mine. I just assumed
> it was Dan.
That's what they said, at least. I've only seen it up-close as a photo on
the web, and I can't really identify the artist by looking at it.
> > Arcee Lithograph:
> > Produced by Dreamwave, this is a painted portrait of Arcee sitting on
> > Cybertron. Looked like a decent picture. I don't know who the artist is.
>
> Pat Lee, if I'm not mistaken.
That sounds right to me, too.
> > them, and not for a profit. Distribution at-cost. This guy does not do
> > that. I really hope to never see him at BotCon again.
>
> He did have Transformers tapes but that's not really your point, is it?
Honestly, the fact that he had Transformers tapes -- they were bootlegs
too, right? -- makes it even more wrong, IMO. I can't believe he could
get away with selling copies of Transformers videos for profit at an
official Transformers convention with Hasbro people walking around the
room.
> I'm a bit divided on the issue of bootlegging tapes. Yes, it's clearly
> illegal but often it's the only channel for getting certain titles or
> movies. I freely admit that I frequently buy tapes from such dealers at
> other conventions.
I feel the same way for stuff which is akin to "abandonware" in the
software piracy scene. Old, obscure stuff that isn't being released... I
think it's fine to distribute that. BUT. NOT. FOR. PROFIT. I see it
just like the fansubbing community. Share the videos with other people
who want to see them, but don't presume that you're doing something which
you deserve to be able to make a living off of. A giant table full of
fansub tapes at $3-$6 apiece I would be cool with, and probably buy from.
> As for bootleg tapes appearing at BotCon...I think it was inevitable. As a
> convention grows and attracts greater numbers, it's bound to attract
> tape-bootleggers. I honestly can't think of a single convention I've
> attended that *hasn't* had someone hawking bootleg tapes.
I figured that was the case. If I ran the world, though, I would have 3H
take a stand and say "you may not sell illegal products at your dealer
table in our convention".
Thanks for the response, SS. I've added a few things you mentioned that I
forgot for my "version 2". ^_^
Zobovor
>Anyway, thank you again for not filling this report with "such-and-such
>guest rules because of how drunk he got or who he groped in the
>elevator" sort of nonsense. I'm sure that sort of thing is a lot of fun at
>the convention, but I don't think it translates too well into text most of
>the time, and I've skipped reading lots of BotCon reports as a result.
>You rule, Steve-o. :)
D'oh. I was wondering where this paragraph had gotten to, and it turns out
that I'd accidentally cut-and-pasted it into the middle of my response. So, I
basically say the same thing twice. (Of course, now I'm compounding the
problem by drawing attention to the mistake. I'm going to go hide in the
corner now.)
Zobovor
>I didn't take the time to read Steve-O's report, since I figure I know 98%
>of what he said already.
Wow, so you already know about all those hateful things he said about you, and
it doesn't even bother you? :)
>
>
>> >S
>> >
>> >P
>> >
>> >O
>> >
>> >I
>> >
>> >L
>> >
>> >E
>> >
>> >R
>> >
>> >S
>> My, how charming. I've actually never heard of this site before, but
>> thanks for warning us about them.
>
>I don't know. If 3H started declining ads because of the fandom's
>general concensus of their reputation, things could start getting pretty
>hairy. They might even end up with a lawsuit on their hands.
I didn't quote the relevant text, but Steve-o said that this site sells bootleg
copies of Transformers episodes, including the ones that are currently
available for sale on video and DVD. That's against the law, and Steve-o's
point was that 3H probably shouldn't be promoting sites that conduct illegal
activities like this.
>>I'm worried that FOX! Kids will never air them, which means that
>>for all intents and purposes, these episodes will only exist in the
>>memories of a handful of fans.
>
>I figure they'll show up on DVD eventually. It may be fifteen years...
Well, yeah, I guess. I don't really want to have to wait that long, though.
:)
>Personally, I'm not too disappointed about the loss of the scavenger
>hunt. The idea just didn't excite me in the first place.
Aww, I think it would have been fun. That was the one thing I was most
disappointed about missing out on this year.
>>>Lastly, he also brought up the old "there's more than one Aaron in
>>>the world, so there can be more than one Mirage on Cybertron"
>>>thing.
>>
>> Grr.
>
>*snerk*
Sure. Just revel in my pain. :)
>Nothing personal, Zob, but it made me quite happy that Hasbro's
>reasons for name reuse are exactly the same reasons that some of us
>have been repeating for so long.
Hey, it's not like I haven't been accepting the validity of any of your
counter-arguments. I realize and understand the nature of Hasbro's position,
and I accept the name recycling as a necessary evil. But, as Ironhide said, I
don't have to *like* it. (That's G1 Ironhide, by the way. Not the G2 Go-Bot
Ironhide, BW Magnaboss Ironhide, or RiD Spychanger Ironhide. Just so there's
no confusion.)
>Consider the molding process of a socket from a ball-and-socket joint.
>If the socket is made out of plastic, you can pop it right out of the mold.
> If it were to be made of metal, though, the mold itself would have to be
>flexible in order to pop the ball out of the inflexible metal. A mold soft
>enough to be flexible probably wouldn't stand up to the heat and
>pressure of having molten metal poured into it.
Ah, I understand now. That makes perfect sense. (Of course, you wouldn't want
to make a socket out of metal anyway, since it would also need to be flexible
enough to accommodate a ball in the first place. In any event, though, thanks
for the explanation.)
>One of the reasons they said that they didn't want to go as far as they
>would have to in order to release Megatron is that it would no longer be
>a fair representation of the original toy. Remolding it like that would
>further defeat the purpose of a reissue.
Actually, I forgot to add a caveat to that effect. I realize it wouldn't be a
reissue at all, but I still think it would be kind of cool. I wouldn't mind
seeing modified Cybertronic versions of other characters, either. I realize it
would never happen, but it's still a fun idea to ponder. :)
>Did Steve-O's report mention that they're planning a BW series? They
>are.
I don't recall reading that, but I think that would be pretty cool. Especially
if it's got Torca in it. :)
Zobovor
>This was asked at the 3H panel. And the grand prize was going to be,
>IIRC, *two* of every Armada toy so far. Including Prime. Plus all
>the BC stuff this year, and possibly wave-2 Armada stuff. Though I'm
>not sure about the wave-2 toys.
In a way, that's a relief... I was honestly terrified that it was going to be
something rare and priceless, like one of the Unicron prototypes or something.
I really didn't want to see something like that fall into the hands of one of
the fans. /:)
>Aw. I thought it was a perfect answer... logical and acceptable. I'm
>sure there's another "Zobovor" out there. (Okay, maybe not.)
Better not be. I've got the name trademarked. :)
>When I talked to him, personally, it was Satuday night at the Hotel's
>bar/lounge. He was probably drunk, or buzzed. But still of sound
>mind and body. And besides, sometimes honesty comes with alcohol.
>He's just very anti-Armada.
I don't think I've heard the full story on this yet, but based on what you and
Steve-o have said, I don't think a dislike for Armada is any reason to bash the
guy. (I'm not saying that you guys are doing that, but a few other people
already have.) I mean, if Optimus Prime was Kaplan's childhood hero and he
finally landed the role for RiD, he was probably pretty disappointed that he
didn't get to play him for Armada, too.
And, really, I wouldn't make any character assessments about *anyone* when
they're drunk. It would have been one thing if he'd been intoxicated during
the voice actors panel, which would have been rather unprofesisonal, but if he
was just socializing afterwards, what's the big deal? Is he required to like
every aspect of Transformers just because he worked on the show? Bob Forward
apparently doesn't care for Beast Machines much, but nobody's getting on his
case about that.
Zobovor
> Just so you guys know, Makotron was not informed that his drawing
>was to be shown at Botcon. It was done without his permission, and
>the drawing itself was not in the final version.
Well, then that's between Makotron and 3H to work out. If Makotron wants to
bring it to our attention here on ATT, he'll do it himself.
Steve-o Stonebraker
> >Steve-o's BotCon 2002 Report: Zobovor Edition
>
> You know, I was going to ask you if you were being snarky about this whole
> "Zobovor Edition" thing, perhaps suggesting that I shouldn't have been whining
> about what people put into their BotCon reports... but you know what? I don't
> care. This was the best BotCon report ever. (And I'm not just spouting some
> inane catch phrase--I actually mean it.)
It's snarky, but good-natured. Basically, I thought it would be funny.
I understand that a lot of people just want to know what we learned at
BotCon, and aren't all that interested in what sort of sandwich I ordered
the second time I went to Arby's, or which coloring books SwiftEagle read
to us for storytime on Sunday night. You need to understand, though, that
one of the main reasons to write a BotCon report (for me, at least) is to
create a record for yourself of what you did over the course of the
convention, and socializing is a part of that.
With my previous reports (only one of which was completed) my goal was to
tell the *story* of my trip to BotCon, and I think that's how most people
think about it when they write their reports. For people who wantt o know
what it's like to go to BotCon, that's important, too. The information is
a small, small part of what makes BotCon great. To really give somebody
an understanding of what the experience is like, you have to detail
everything, especially the interactions with other fans.
> >S
> >
> >P
> >
> >O
> >
> >I
> >
> >L
> >
> >E
> >
> >R
> >
> >S
>
> >Glyph, a G1 Bumblebee (keychain) done with a blue body and just
> >barely off-white undercarraige/windows.
>
> Wait a minute... Glyph's secondary color *isn't* the same as Tap-Out's? I
> would have assumed that their windows and body parts would have been part of
> the same production mold.
Different colors. As somebody else said, I may have stated the lightness
too strongly... it's more of a very, very light grey, but I think it's
easy to mistake for white without looking closely. So I guess that theory
of yours is kaput. Would have been a decent one, though.
> That strikes me as weird, too. I mean, Takara's already producing Storm Jets
> in mass quantities for TRU Japan; what difference would a thousand or two more
> make?
::shrug:: Takara has, historically, not been all that cooperative with
BotCon Japan. Maybe it's just not worth their trouble to help out with
conventions they don't have a personal stake in. (Which is not a bad
thing; it's pragmatic.) Does seem like -- based on what we know, which is
obviously not everything -- Hasbro should have been able to order a dozen
or so cases of Storm Jet from Takara or TRU Japan to fill the dinner-
exclusive needs, but I guess they couldn't.
> >One of the things Glen has a license for is an official Transformers Fan
> >Club. It appears uncertain whether this club will be aimed at kids or
> >older collectors, or both. Among the hopes/plans for the club are a
> >publication/magazine of some sort and annual toy exclusives.
>
> If it's done by the BotCon people, it *has* to be aimed at the collectors.
> That's what fan clubs are *for,* fer crying out loud. I'd really like to see
I dunno... there are lots of fan clubs for kids, too. I would have loved
to have an official TF club when I was 10 years old. I *want* the fan
club to be for kids. I want kids who love TFs to join, and get exciting
stuff in the mail like comic books, and magazines with tech spec profiles,
and a membership card or certificate... that would rock. And I would
totally join. That sounds a lot more fun to me than a collector's
oriented newsletter or something.
> For some reason, I always thought they used the money collected from each
> BotCon in order to prepare for the following one. Didn't they say this at
> one point?
Whatever meager profit they make -- if any -- goes into the next show,
yes. But I think that the bulk of the budget for each year comes from
their pockets, offset partially by whatever pre-registrations come in.
Then, at the time of the show, they hopefully make back the rest of the
money they'd spent, and sometimes a little more on top of that.
> It's late and I need to go to sleep after this post, but does anybody else want
> to do some research and make a list of which names are attributed to which
> toys?
That would be really sweet, actually. I'd love to be able to give those
designers some credit.
> do that same joint with metal. It seems weird that they would say that you
> can't mold metal into as many shapes. That just doesn't make sense at all.
I dunno, that's what they said. Maybe you can make thinner panels or
edges with plastic than with die-cast metal?
> >Andrew mentioned the risk of "impalement" on toy shards,
> >which I thought was pretty funny.
>
> Well, it's good to know that the image of small children being gutted with
> little jagged-edged Fort Max bits brings a smile to your face. /:)
::giggles girlishly::
> >RID was brought in as a "stopgap" to give them a full year to figure out
> >what to do next. So, that's no longer just fan speculation.
>
> I thought that *was* the official word from Hasbro, though. Maybe they said
> something last year at BotCon?
They didn't say anything last year at BotCon. The panel was cancelled. I
think there was a rep or two there for one day, but they didn't speak to
us as a group. AFAIK, "RID is filler" was essentially just our
interpretation of the whole thing... it might have come from something
like an ASM interview, or maybe a Hasbro person at the Toy Fair where they
unveiled the RID line.
> >Storm Jet and the Autobot 3-pack in RID had their sparks left as-is and
> >simply painted over. If you scrape away that red, you should see their
> >old Vehicon sparks underneath.
>
> No, the spark crystals weren't painted; they were molded in solid plastic. The
> original translucent versions had the faction symbols imprinted into the bottom
> of the plastic.
Hmmm. I guess the panelist was wrong, then, or maybe I misunderstood him.
Regardless, this "gang molded" thing seemed to be part of the explanation,
but it wasn't tremendously clear.
> I think what this probably means is that since the spark crystals themselves
> are so small, they fill up the mold with multiple copies of those parts so they
> don't waste space on the production mold.
That's what I'd assume too.
> >They clearly felt like this was an unwelcome intrustion upon their work
> >by the corporation, which I can totally understand. At the same time, I
> >thought the references were cool and funny; they made me happy, but I
> >don't think they should be forced upon the writers.
>
> Why not? How is this any different than Hasbro mandating which toys need to
> appear in a given episode? (I know they obviously couldn't have done that with
> RiD, specifically, but you know what I mean.)
Telling the writers, "please introduce this toy," is much les intrusive,
IMO, than telling them "Prime must mention Vector Sigma here". It's the
writers' *job* to write the dialogue. If I were in that position, and
Hasbro kept sticking their nose in to make me add things that I didn't
understand, I would be pretty irritated. It's a notch above character
mandating, I think, on the obnoxiousness scale.
> >Bob said he thinks the Beast Machines treatment (which went to Skir
> >and Isenberg as story editors) was written by Marv Wolfman. Did we
> >know that already?
>
> Yes, we did. Back when we knew it as Beast Hunters, it was revealed that Marv
> Wolfman came up with the original premise for the show (Vehicons take over
> Cybertron), but it was Skir who added the spiritual angle and the focus on the
> missing sparks.
I think the spiritual stuff might have been Ase Fipke's idea... but I
don't have a source handy for that. Are you sure?
> >While a couple of the criticisms I heard had some legitimacy, he
> >mostly seemed to be saying "Armada suxxorz". Most of his
>
> Uh, was this during the panel proper, or afterwards in the hotel or a
> restaurant or whatever?
Not at the panel, no. There's the Suspsy-elevator story from right after
the dinner premiere on Friday, and Saturday night in the lobby.
> >It was, apparently, largely due to Burr that the Screen Actors Guild
> >eventually instituted time limits on how long members could be forced
> >to work at a time.
>
> Heh. I would really love to learn more about this guy. I hope Rik comes up
> with an interview for him soon.
He said that McConnohie or Paul Davids (forget which) was going to try to
hook him up with Burr.
> >Guests who were dressed extremely non-formally were admitted to the
> >semi-formal dinner yet again this year.
>
> I may end up commenting on this later... but not tonight.
How mysterious... I understand 3H's reluctance to turn people away,
considering people have paid a pretty penny to reserve a seat, but I think
it's important that if 3H says "Dress nicely," that people respect that.
> > This guy makes his living by selling illegal copies of stuff, and
> >I'm really surprised that 3H would allow such a shady operation in their
> >convention.
>
> You might want to e-mail them and let them know about this. It's possible that
I mentioned it to Jon on Sunday night, and I'll probably send an email
clarifying my position. (Assuming they're not already reading this
thread.)
Aaron F. Bourque
>Bob Forward apparently doesn't care for Beast Machines much,
>but nobody's getting on his case about that.
Hey, yeah!
. . .
Oh, wait. I forgot. Beast Machines is the transfans-bane.
. . .
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
Women supposedly mature at a faster rate than men
If that is true, how come they live so much longer then . . ?
Nothing says maturity than like transforming robot toys for ten-year-olds
Stranger
> I don't think I've heard the full story on this yet, but based on what you
and
> Steve-o have said, I don't think a dislike for Armada is any reason to
bash the
> guy. (I'm not saying that you guys are doing that, but a few other people
> already have.) I mean, if Optimus Prime was Kaplan's childhood hero and
he
> finally landed the role for RiD, he was probably pretty disappointed that
he
> didn't get to play him for Armada, too.
While I love the Ocean Studios voice actors and am estactic that they'll be
back for Armarda, I don't blame US actors for being put out with all the
Hollywood jobs that have been flowing to Canada due to the decreased costs.
They lose out on jobs and there's really nothing they can do about it.
Ultimately, the consumer wins out, but it's still a tough situation for the
workers who lose out here.
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
Also goes by the name of Dan Nguyen or "Space Cowboy"
David Willis
> > >I'm really surprised that 3H would allow such a shady operation in
their
> > >convention.
> >
> > You might want to e-mail them and let them know about this. It's
possible that
>
> I mentioned it to Jon on Sunday night, and I'll probably send an email
> clarifying my position. (Assuming they're not already reading this
> thread.)
Heh, I dunno. The bootleg table made BotCon seem like a "real convention."
You ever seen Wizard World? Man, there's AISLES of dealers with nothing
more than bootlegged tapes. I was *this* close to picking up the entire
Singapore-dubbed Headmasters series on VHS last year.
--David
(Post is not to be taken seriously...except for the
almost-bought-Headmasters part.)
www.itswalky.com
Recharge
> bar/lounge. He was probably drunk, or buzzed. But still of sound
> mind and body. And besides, sometimes honesty comes with alcohol.
> He's just very ant-Armada.
Tonyfitz Armada? Cool!
(resists urge to make the "Italian Minicon" pack joke)
Recharge
Recharge
> to such-and-such fan's room party and got drunk, and then we went to
> such-and-such restaurant and harassed the waitresses" sort of review. This was
> a *huge* review as it stands, one that was jam-packed with information, and I
> really appreciate getting to read it. :)
Steve-O: Oh, then we went and got drunk in Recharge's hotel room and
played with Coolslider's chest. Mr. T was there. The End.
Recharge
Merytneith
Yes, and now that you *have* drawn attention to it, I am
going to whine about WHERE'S MY ENTERTAINING BOTCON
TRAVELOGUE REPORTS?!?!? Primus almighty, all we've seen is
friggin' revelations about substantive issues, WHEN is
SOMEONE going to get to the GOOD STUFF?!?!?
<cry!!>
--Mery
======================================================
Bart: Mr. Hutz when I grow up I want to be a lawyer
just like you.
Hutz: Good for you, son.
If there's one thing America needs, it's more
lawyers. Can you imagine a world without lawyers?
[Hutz imagines a scene of people of all nationalities
holding hands and dancing around in a circle under
a rainbow.]
Hutz: [shudders] Aaaagh!
=====================================================
John DeLuna
*Snip Kaplan ranting against Armada*
> I don't think I've heard the full story on this yet, but based on what you and
> Steve-o have said, I don't think a dislike for Armada is any reason to bash
> the guy.
Oh, I agree. In fact, I *like* Kaplan. If I wasn't clear in my first
post, all this ranting (and it was very much ranting) about Armada
seemed based on professional spite. He's a very, VERY passionate
person. And losing that gig probably stung.
On the bright side, he was tremendous at the VA panel. The leader and
center of attention. He was the life of the panel, and very
entertaining. I was surprised by his "off-the-record" Armada bashing.
But it was understandable when you thought of the circumstances.
He's human.
-John
Aaron F. Bourque
>I am going to whine about WHERE'S MY ENTERTAINING
>BOTCON TRAVELOGUE REPORTS?!?!? Primus almighty, all
>we've seen is friggin' revelations about substantive issues,
>WHEN is SOMEONE going to get to the GOOD STUFF?!?!?
>
><cry!!>
So wowed were they by Hasbro's presentation at BotCon, they
have become assimilated, and are therefore doing just as Hasbro
would, and not give you exactly what you want.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; it was funny in my head . . .
Thylacine 2000
> Bob Forward viewed the Vok as "the ultimate evolution of human life" or
> of intelligent life in general. The name is derivitive from the word
> "folk". He saw them as guardians of space and time, and that they were
> attempting to accellerate the evolution of life on Earth into themselves.
Bob also explained why--according to his vision of the backstory--the
Vok had laced Earth with energon in the first place. It was meant to
be discovered by the Vok's human ancestors once they had advanced into
a technological society, and to serve as a super-abundant,
super-powerful, and ecologically "clean" source of energy.
ma...@attcanada.ca
> "Zobovor" <zob...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020801170859...@mb-fl.aol.com...
>
> > I don't think I've heard the full story on this yet, but based on what you
> and
> > Steve-o have said, I don't think a dislike for Armada is any reason to
> bash the
> > guy. (I'm not saying that you guys are doing that, but a few other people
> > already have.) I mean, if Optimus Prime was Kaplan's childhood hero and
> he
> > finally landed the role for RiD, he was probably pretty disappointed that
> he
> > didn't get to play him for Armada, too.
>
> While I love the Ocean Studios voice actors and am estactic that they'll be
> back for Armarda, I don't blame US actors for being put out with all the
> Hollywood jobs that have been flowing to Canada due to the decreased costs.
> They lose out on jobs and there's really nothing they can do about it.
The thing which confuses me, however, is despite the Ocean Group getting the job
for Armada, that shouldn't disclude the possibility of any American actors from
being able to play parts in the series. Of course, I don't know if whatever
contract Ocean has dictates that only their actors are eligible or not.
If it's about American actors having to relocate (albeit temporarily) in order
to participate in the series, I don't see any problem in that. Many, if not
all, Canadian actors have to relocate to the US if they want their careers to
really take off. Or you can use an NHL example, where players or even entire
teams must relocate if the situation demands.
> Ultimately, the consumer wins out, but it's still a tough situation for the
> workers who lose out here.
If the workers are not given any choice at all, I agree. But... if they are
unwilling to go where the work is (in this case Canada) then it's their choice,
and there's no reason for them to feel put out.
Retardomontalban
>organizers enough to do anything about it (or at least issue a stern warning
>about next year), then I don't think it should bother anyone else, either.
Next year, Im going to the dinner butt-naked with a potato over my crotch. I
shall forever be known as "The Botcon Dictator"
.
.Retardomontalban
Lifeguard of the gene pool
Jesterinazz
>shall forever be known as "The Botcon Dictator"
>.
>.Retardomontalban
> Lifeguard of the gene pool
Dude.....I did a serious nose-puke when I read that.
A fool and his money are soon partying.
superspy
then said news:20020801061418...@mb-bk.aol.com:
> Anyway, thanks again for not dragging this out into some huge "and
> then I went to such-and-such fan's room party and got drunk, and then
> we went to such-and-such restaurant and harassed the waitresses" sort
> of review. This was a *huge* review as it stands, one that was
> jam-packed with information, and I really appreciate getting to read
> it. :)
Yeah. God forbid that someone detail the fun they had during non-
convention time. Stop being such a killjoy, Zob.
'spy.
Guess you won't be reading that far into my report.
Derik Smith
>I understand that a lot of people just want to know what we learned at
>BotCon, and aren't all that interested in what sort of sandwich I ordered
>the second time I went to Arby's, or which coloring books SwiftEagle read
>to us for storytime on Sunday night. You need to understand, though, that
>one of the main reasons to write a BotCon report (for me, at least) is to
>create a record for yourself of what you did over the course of the
>convention, and socializing is a part of that.
*perks* Coloring books? Which ones?
>I dunno... there are lots of fan clubs for kids, too. I would have loved
>to have an official TF club when I was 10 years old. I *want* the fan
>club to be for kids. I want kids who love TFs to join, and get exciting
>stuff in the mail like comic books, and magazines with tech spec profiles,
>and a membership card or certificate... that would rock. And I would
>totally join. That sounds a lot more fun to me than a collector's
>oriented newsletter or something.
...
I just realized that such a hypothetical fan-club mailing as you describe
would have given tech-sepcs to the spec-less RiD toys, wouldn't it? (Which,
come to think of it, is where we got specs for some wierd-ass JP BW stuff,
isn't it?)
'Gang molded' sounds dirty. I wonder if Tap-Out was gang molded in
prison. See?
likes sandwiches,
cappeca
> bring it to our attention here on ATT, he'll do it himself.
I brought it out because he is a personal friend of mine, and deserves
respect. It is something people should know, that's all.
To *discuss* about it is something else, and not my business.
So, do not follow-up to this.
Cesar
Derik Smith
>>>the world, so there can be more than one Mirage on Cybertron"
>>>thing.
>>
>> Grr.
But WHICH ONE? The one that turns invisible, the one that teleports, or
the one that casts holograms?
I mean- they KILLED the one that teleports. And which one was Mirage GT?
Was this Spychanger (and thus G1) Mirage returning from Cybertron in another
form, or was it one of the other ones?
I hate these kind of nagging questions. It's like 'who was Blastcharge?'
casually mentioned as being one of the original G1 Decepticons that served
under Megatron.
Pyre
>
> But a number of Hasbro toy lines *are* trilingual these days. Back when RiD
> first started coming out, I noticed that the Jurassic Park 3 toys had the same
> trilingual packaging. There was at least one other, also by Hasbro, but I
> can't remember what it was right now.
>
I think the question has to do with lines like Star Wars and GIJoe. Star
Wars I can understand not having Trilingual packaging, but why not GIJoe?
Why is GIJoe exempt but Transformers isn't?
>
> There is one really obvious solution here: Give him an outer-surface remold
> (think Beast Wars K-9), and sell him as Megatron in his Cybertronic gun mode.
> He'd still have to have the orange cap (even the space guns TRU carries has
> those), but maybe he could have the right color scheme that way. And, really,
> a Cybertronic gun would be pretty cool. :)
>
Well, if they're going to go that far then they might as well just make a
new toy.
>
> I always wondered how that rumor got started. People used to talk about that,
> along with the Deluxe Nightscream, like it was commonly-accepted fact or
> something...
>
From what I've heard, Deluxe Obsidian got as far as a foam core sculpt or
something along those lines. There were no actual molds made from it but
as I understand it, it was based on his animation model, which is what
Rotorbolt was based on. As for Deluxe Nightscream, I can't recall ever
hearing anything about that.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"I don't know if i care.
I'm the jerk. Life's not fair."
- Papa Roach
Pyre
>
>>Anyway, thank you again for not filling this report with "such-and-such
>>guest rules because of how drunk he got or who he groped in the
>>elevator" sort of nonsense. I'm sure that sort of thing is a lot of fun at
>>the convention, but I don't think it translates too well into text most of
>>the time, and I've skipped reading lots of BotCon reports as a result.
The reason I like that people put that stuff in is because I DO have
friends here that go to BotCon and I like to hear about what all they did
there. Especially if I had to miss out because I couldn't attend, like
this year. There's allot more to BotCon than just Transformers. Allot of
people seem to think that buying toys and watching cartoons and such is
what BotCon is all about, but that's just a small part. You said yourself
that you could do all that stuff at home. BotCon is more about spending
time with your friends, some of which we only get to see once a year, and
celebrating your love for Transformers. Buying toys and watching cartoons
is more like a bonus. That's why people talk about stuff other than
Transformers in their reports.
Stranger
> The thing which confuses me, however, is despite the Ocean Group getting
the job
> for Armada, that shouldn't disclude the possibility of any American actors
from
> being able to play parts in the series. Of course, I don't know if
whatever
> contract Ocean has dictates that only their actors are eligible or not.
>
> If it's about American actors having to relocate (albeit temporarily) in
order
> to participate in the series, I don't see any problem in that. Many, if
not
> all, Canadian actors have to relocate to the US if they want their
careers to
> really take off. Or you can use an NHL example, where players or even
entire
> teams must relocate if the situation demands.
I'm not sure, but I would theorize that with Canada's strict employment
standards, they have to use Canadaian nationals.
I'm no expert though. We have any here?
Zobovor
>The reason I like that people put that stuff in is because I DO have
>friends here that go to BotCon and I like to hear about what all they did
>there. Especially if I had to miss out because I couldn't attend, like
>this year. There's allot more to BotCon than just Transformers. Allot of
>people seem to think that buying toys and watching cartoons and such
>is what BotCon is all about, but that's just a small part. You said
>yourself that you could do all that stuff at home. BotCon is more about
>spending time with your friends, some of which we only get to see once
>a year, and celebrating your love for Transformers. Buying toys and
>watching cartoons is more like a bonus. That's why people talk about
>stuff other than Transformers in their reports.
I'm replying to your post instead of superspy's, since he was nasty to me but
you weren't. :)
Anyway... sure, BotCon is a social event, but when I read the reports, I'm only
interested in learning about the Transformers-related stuff--the identities of
the BotCon toys, what was learned from the Hasbro panel and voice actors panel,
etc. If I were writing a personal log of my experience at the convention, I
know I'd certainly write about my interaction with fans, the hotel experience,
and so forth, but I wouldn't post that to ATT since I wouldn't want to bore
people with stuff that would basically only interest me.
I'm not saying that people *shouldn't* ever write BotCon reports that way. I
just mentioned a couple of times why I don't usually read those sorts of posts,
and it sort of turned into a running gag, which Steve-o picked up on. I never
asked him or anyone else to please restrict their BotCon reports to
Transformers-related news only, though. I skimmed Suspsy's report, and he went
ahead and included stuff like hotel sleeping arrangements and restaurant trips,
and that's fine, too. I just won't be reading that one, is all.
(And, now that I've digested Steve-o's convention report in Zobovor format, if
he does write an extended one that accounts for the fans he hung out with and
stuff, I'll probably read that one, too. I just wanted to absorb what there
was to learn first, since I missed out on a nugget or two of information by
skipping the reports last year.)
Xis
"Merytneith" <meryt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D49E3BB...@earthlink.net...
> Yes, and now that you *have* drawn attention to it, I am
> going to whine about WHERE'S MY ENTERTAINING BOTCON
> TRAVELOGUE REPORTS?!?!? Primus almighty, all we've seen is
> friggin' revelations about substantive issues, WHEN is
> SOMEONE going to get to the GOOD STUFF?!?!?
(very short) Travelogue:
Got to the hotel, found out that a high school / college basketball team had
reserved all of the rooms near us. They were lying on the floor in the hall,
yelling back and forth. A quick trip to the front desk got us a room on the
opposite side of the hotel.
Friday night ate at Chi-Chi's, where they served me a 'medium' steak that
bled.
Saturday, Botcon! Lunch was at McDonalds, which was packed with Transfans
(as far as I could tell, only McDonalds and Arbys were within walking
distance).
Saturday night, ate at El Azteca. It was pretty good. They served their
salsa in pourable jugs. Odd.
Sunday, no Botcon for us, we went to the Fort Wayne Children's Zoo. It was
neat. I didn't know that some penguins live near the equator. Virtually
deserted too (probably because it looked like rain).
And yes, I know you really didn't want to hear any of this.
Suspsy
If I were writing a personal log of my experience at the convention, I
> know I'd certainly write about my interaction with fans, the hotel experience,
> and so forth, but I wouldn't post that to ATT since I wouldn't want to bore
> people with stuff that would basically only interest me.
And just who are you to judge what people find interesting and
non-interesting? Surely you're not assuming that just because you find
that kind of report boring that everyone else will find it boring as
well, are you? I for one find all the fan interaction quite
interesting, and I strongly encourage everyone to include it in their
reports.
Also, has it slipped your mind that I've only posted the Friday
segment of my review, and that on Friday, there was absolutely
*nothing* going on except the dinner, which I wasn't able to attend?
If I'd left out all the fan interaction and hotel experience material,
the report would've consisted solely of "We drove to Ft. Wayne and
awaited Saturday. The End."
> I'm not saying that people *shouldn't* ever write BotCon reports that way. I
> just mentioned a couple of times why I don't usually read those sorts of posts,
> and it sort of turned into a running gag, which Steve-o picked up on. I never
> asked him or anyone else to please restrict their BotCon reports to
> Transformers-related news only, though. I skimmed Suspsy's report, and he went
> ahead and included stuff like hotel sleeping arrangements and restaurant trips,
> and that's fine, too. I just won't be reading that one, is all.
Thanks.
Susp
"Robots with courage and character always seem sinister to the rest."
-BM Quickstrike
Suspsy
> I don't think I've heard the full story on this yet, but based on what you and
> Steve-o have said, I don't think a dislike for Armada is any reason to bash the
> guy.
Check my Friday report to see the full story. I actually conferred
with Thy in order to maker certain that I had the dialogue between
myself and Neil down pat, so as to avoid any hyperbole.
(I'm not saying that you guys are doing that, but a few other people
> already have.) I mean, if Optimus Prime was Kaplan's childhood hero and he
> finally landed the role for RiD, he was probably pretty disappointed that he
> didn't get to play him for Armada, too.
Life's full of disappointments, especially relating to the job market.
It doesn't give a person any excuse whatsoever to act like an immature
brat about it in a public venue.
> And, really, I wouldn't make any character assessments about *anyone* when
> they're drunk. It would have been one thing if he'd been intoxicated during
> the voice actors panel, which would have been rather unprofesisonal, but if he
> was just socializing afterwards, what's the big deal? Is he required to like
> every aspect of Transformers just because he worked on the show? Bob Forward
> apparently doesn't care for Beast Machines much, but nobody's getting on his
> case about that.
The difference is that Bob never expressed his displeasure with a
childish rant in which he made a number of ludicrous statements that
were *completely impossible* to back up. Calm, carefully worded
criticism is the acceptable, professional way of making your views
heard. Drunken ranting is not.
Susp
"I'm very good at what I do--maybe too good!" -Night Viper
Steve-o Stonebraker
> > people with stuff that would basically only interest me.
>
> And just who are you to judge what people find interesting and
> non-interesting? Surely you're not assuming that just because you find
> that kind of report boring that everyone else will find it boring as
> well, are you?
I think it's pretty clear that he's *not* saying that. He's saying that
he finds it boring, and that he doesn't read those ones, and that he
wouldn't post one. That is all he's saying.
Suspsy
> I think it's pretty clear that he's *not* saying that. He's saying that
> he finds it boring, and that he doesn't read those ones, and that he
> wouldn't post one. That is all he's saying.
Looking over it again, I can see that now, although I still feel that his
phrasing could have been better. It appeared that he was implying that since
he personally dislikes that particular type of report, other people must
dislike it too. Also, I was annoyed how he said that he merely skimmed over
my first report, since he'd professed an interest in hearing about Neil
Kaplan's antics, and since I made a special effort on behalf of the on-line
fandom to ensure that my encounter with Kaplan was retold accurately and
without exaggeration of any kind. I don't like the guy, but I have no desire
to make him out to be worse than he was.
Susp
"The sounds of war are history speaking." -Grand Slam
cmq
> (as far as I could tell, only McDonalds and Arbys were within walking
> distance).
I know the average TF fan might not be as in shape as average person, but Taco
Bell and Subway (among others) weren't THAT much further away!
;)
Zobovor
>Looking over it again, I can see that now, although I still feel that his
>phrasing could have been better. It appeared that he was implying that
>since he personally dislikes that particular type of report, other people
>must dislike it too.
I seem to get this from people quite a bit. I think a general rule of thumb
when reading my posts would be that if I'm being serious and straightforward,
there are no hidden messages to find. If I'm being snarky and sarcastic,
though, there's probably a metamessage that I'm trying to convey. I know I
swap back and forth between the two quite a bit, so maybe that's what's
confusing people...?
>Also, I was annoyed how he said that he merely skimmed over my first
>report, since he'd professed an interest in hearing about Neil Kaplan's
>antics, and since I made a special effort on behalf of the on-line fandom
>to ensure that my encounter with Kaplan was retold accurately and
>without exaggeration of any kind. I don't like the guy, but I have no
>desire to make him out to be worse than he was.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as dismissive. I found your report again, and
I'll go ahead and reply to that post.
Recharge
> just mentioned a couple of times why I don't usually read those sorts of posts,
> and it sort of turned into a running gag, which Steve-o picked up on. I never
> asked him or anyone else to please restrict their BotCon reports to
> Transformers-related news only, though. I skimmed Suspsy's report, and he went
> ahead and included stuff like hotel sleeping arrangements and restaurant trips,
> and that's fine, too. I just won't be reading that one, is all.
Riiiiight. Personally, I don't like reading some of the incredibly
boring and dry toy reviews that pop up on the group. But some do.
Hence, I don't make anything of it. I don't make snarky comments and
piss on someone's effort TWICE in the same post. Zob, you know
exactly how to convey meaning effectively in your writing. And
everyone pretty much got it. So grow some balls and quit
backtracking. Admit you were taking petty potshots for your own
personal amusement. After all, you don't give a shit anymore, right?
Recharge
Zobovor
>I don't make snarky comments and piss on someone's effort TWICE in
>the same post.
I don't know what you want from me, dude. I already said that was an
accidental cut-and-paste. This is a new keyboard and the keys are shaped a
little differently than I'm used to. I made a mistake, and after I discovered
it I even took the time to point that out so that there wouldn't be any
confusion. I know that it's much more fun to devise some kind of diabolical
hidden agenda on my part than accept the rather mundane explanation that my
fingers slipped, though. So, if you want to keep being pissed at me about it,
I guess I won't stop you.
>Zob, you know exactly how to convey meaning effectively in your
>writing. And everyone pretty much got it. So grow some balls and quit
>backtracking. Admit you were taking petty potshots for your own
>personal amusement. After all, you don't give a shit anymore, right?
I guess this is the part where I'm supposed to stick up for myself, try to
prove to you that I'm being sincere, and ruin Steve-o's thread by dragging this
out into a long and bitter flame war. I'm really not up for that tonight,
though. Nothing I say is going to convince you anyway, so let's just pretend
that we argued about it for a week and completely failed to see each other's
point of view, okay?
Thomas Hamann
everyone knows fish don't talk), said:
>Suspsy wrote:
>
>>Looking over it again, I can see that now, although I still feel that his
>>phrasing could have been better. It appeared that he was implying that
>>since he personally dislikes that particular type of report, other people
>>must dislike it too.
>
>I seem to get this from people quite a bit. I think a general rule of thumb
>when reading my posts would be that if I'm being serious and straightforward,
>there are no hidden messages to find. If I'm being snarky and sarcastic,
>though, there's probably a metamessage that I'm trying to convey. I know I
>swap back and forth between the two quite a bit, so maybe that's what's
>confusing people...?
>
serious, if not, you are being serious.
But most people seem to get pissed before that point of the post, and reply
without looking at the end of the post.
Example:
>>Also, I was annoyed how he said that he merely skimmed over my first
>>report, since he'd professed an interest in hearing about Neil Kaplan's
>>antics, and since I made a special effort on behalf of the on-line fandom
>>to ensure that my encounter with Kaplan was retold accurately and
>>without exaggeration of any kind. I don't like the guy, but I have no
>>desire to make him out to be worse than he was.
>
>Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as dismissive. I found your report again, and
>I'll go ahead and reply to that post.
>
>--
>Zobovor
no '...', so serious/non-sarcastic.
If it had said 'Zobovor...', people had had the right of getting pissed.
--
Thomas Hamann
ZIB Moderator & Zoidfans Web Board Administrator
Zoidfans Web Board: http://server1.ikonboard.com/Zoidfans/
Reviews, scans, fanfics, fanart, models, etc.: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/
Recharge
> Recharge wrote:
>
> >I don't make snarky comments and piss on someone's effort TWICE in
> >the same post.
>
> I don't know what you want from me, dude. I already said that was an
> accidental cut-and-paste. This is a new keyboard and the keys are shaped a
> little differently than I'm used to. I made a mistake, and after I discovered
> it I even took the time to point that out so that there wouldn't be any
> confusion. I know that it's much more fun to devise some kind of diabolical
> hidden agenda on my part than accept the rather mundane explanation that my
> fingers slipped, though. So, if you want to keep being pissed at me about it,
> I guess I won't stop you.
I wasn't thinking hidden, I thought the intent was well broadcasted.
But I didn't know you said it twice because you accidentally cut and
pasted.
> I guess this is the part where I'm supposed to stick up for myself, try to
> prove to you that I'm being sincere, and ruin Steve-o's thread by dragging this
> out into a long and bitter flame war. I'm really not up for that tonight,
> though. Nothing I say is going to convince you anyway, so let's just pretend
> that we argued about it for a week and completely failed to see each other's
> point of view, okay?
Nah, I was hoping you'd just say "I don't care, screw off, think what
you want." Close enough. I was gonna phone this one in anyways.
Charge