[BW] Dark Glass script inofficial outline from DiTillio! *SPOILERS*
Joona I Palaste
that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
inofficial outline. So here we go...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
** Cut here **
Rattrap salvages a computer bank from the Axalon and in it's circuits he and
Rhinox find the Core consciousness of the old DinoBot (which as you will
recall DinoBot downloaded in a previous episode). Rattrap gets obsessed with
the idea that he can restore the old DinoBot by getting it into the new
Dinobot's systems. Rhinox tells him this will probably not work, as core
consciousness without a spark is only an illusion of the person to whom it
belonged. And if it didn't work, it just might give the new Dinobot all the
old Dinobot's datatrax on the Maximals which could give the Preds and
advantage. Optimus thus forbids the attempt. But Rattrap defies this order,
sneaks out and at much risk to himself, does manage to get the core
consciousness in place. For a moment the old DinoBot does seem to emerge but
as Rhinox warned he is only a shadow of his former self and must do everything
he can to keep the new DinoBot from regaining control of his body, a weird
mental struggle which would have been fun to animate. The old Dinobot knows
he is doomed to lose this struggle and tries to "sacrifice" himself again by
infilitrating the Preds and taking out Megatron before he can complete his
master plan to destroy the AutoBots. It doesn't work and the New Dinobot
regains control of his body only to be blasted by Meagtron. Rattrap comes to
accept that his old pal is truly dead and realizes he cannot bring him back.
However he honors his friends memory.
** Cut here **
Remember, this is an inofficial outline from Larry DiTillio, and Christy
Manx herself is still the only person who knows all the details. If you
have any questions, e-mail DiTillio at diti...@aol.com. Discussion is
also welcome here.
--
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) | | | |
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" | | | |
| TFA, FtPoW: Stargazer |------- -----------------|
| |------- -----------------|
| G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ W++ B OP+ | | | |
| Finland rules! => | | | |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Cyclonus: What is this place?
Daniel: An ice cream factory?
Cyclonus: You are insolent, Earth boy!
Daniel: Thanks!
--- from "Surprise Party"
ArtieAnole
solved.....as is the mystery of darkglass.....i wonder what plotpoints
might still be stuck into Go with the flow?
Artie Anole
Robert Powers
<pal...@cc.helsinki.fi[REMOVEMETOACCESSE-MAIL]> wrote:
>I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", and he said
>that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
>inofficial outline. So here we go...
[snip]
Wow. I hate to pass judgement without actually seeing the finished
product, but that sounds like it could have been a GREAT episode. Too
bad.
And for those who are hesitating about reading Joona's summary
for fear of spoilers: if you've seen up to "Feral Scream" part 1, there
shouldn't be any surprises, aside from an answer to one of Season 2's
nagging little "what was that?" questions.
--
Robert Powers of the Ever-Changing .sig
repo...@shell.faradic.net __________________________________
| Cosmos! What have I done?? -- Kyron |
|_ I don't know who did what -- but I don't care! -- Cosmos__|
Blue-Jackal
<pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> writes
ARGH!
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
That would have been the GREATEST episode in the history of great
episodes!!!!!!
--
Blue-Jackal
Sugarbot of Dinobot;)
Guardian of Starscreams spark;)
Sworn enemy of G*lv*tron!!
Protector of Retrax and Silverbolt:)
(Blackarachnia of the ATT RPG)
(FACT: Airazor is the daughter of Deszaras)
http://www.geocities.com/~orion_neos/bjackal.html
"As I preducted!"
Breakdown - (Masquerade)
Remove 123 from reply addy to contact me
Scarab8006
>NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
>That would have been the GREATEST episode in the history of great
>episodes!!!!!!
I'd have to agree, here....Dark Glass seems like it would probably have
been better than Code of Hero. It really is just too bad that we won't be
seeing it. Of course, we've still got a few more eps of season 3 left, so maybe
the best is yet to come...
~Your friendly neighborhood Predacon that sincerely hopes there /will/ be one
last heck-of-an-episode before it's all over,
Razorwing
*Scarem - The official TF toy of this screen name.
"Now let's go back to that...building...thingie...where our beds and
TV...is."~The Simpsons
Rapido
dark or grim for children? I've seen plenty of cartoons that had eps that
were much 'darker' than this, with adult overtones (ie. Batman, some
Japanese anime broadcast in the US, etc).
I think the boat was missed on what could have been a memoriable BW ep.
JN
Joona I Palaste > wrote in message <7ae17u$os$1...@oravannahka.Helsinki.FI>...
>I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", and he said
>that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
>inofficial outline. So here we go...
>
>** Cut here **
>
>Remember, this is an inofficial outline from Larry DiTillio, and Christy
>Manx herself is still the only person who knows all the details. If you
>have any questions, e-mail DiTillio at diti...@aol.com. Discussion is
>also welcome here.
>
Rockman666
>dark or grim for children? I've seen plenty of cartoons that had eps that
>were much 'darker' than this, with adult overtones (ie. Batman, some
>Japanese anime broadcast in the US, etc).
I think Hasblow is out of their mind. I mean, look how dark Feral Scream was.
It even gave ME the shivers everytime I saw and heard TM2 Cheetor. It was
slightly shy of being a horror movie. For Hasblow to reject a plot that
doesn't sound nearly as dark is hypocritical.
Til all are one,
Jimmy
#### ICQ# 10372749
#### If anyone from the US needs TF episodes, I have them all.
#### I also have many other 80's toons on tape.
#### Check out my web page for many TF MPEG movies!!!!
#### http://members.aol.com/Rockman666/
TMII Dinobot
How comes Hasbro rejected the script!? If they did, Hasbro is a major suck
up!
ViceGripX
>Joona I Palaste wrote...
[spoiler space and outline snipped]
>ARGH!
>NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
>That would have been the GREATEST episode in the history of great
>episodes!!!!!!
Sure, it sounds good, but could you imagine a psychic battle of the Dinobots
a la Tekla Vs. Lamprey from War Planets? All the Maximals would join hands
in a circle around the original Dinobot and smile at him :P
--
"I have as much rage as you have,
I have as much pain as you do,
I've lived as much hell as you have,
And I've kept mine bubbling under for you."
- Alanis Morissette "Sympathetic Character"
ArtieAnole
ummmm, a suck up to who?.....geez everybody shuttup about hasbro, i'm
sure they had their reasons
Artie Anole
war...@my-dejanews.com
>In article <7ae17u$os$1...@oravannahka.Helsinki.FI>, Joona I Palaste
><pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> writes
Y'know, perhaps it was a good thing Dark Glass got axed if the above does
indeed represent the outline.
Substitute Impactor (or whatever that 'Bot's name was) for Dinobot and the
second half of that outline reads like that TF UK "Night of the Living Dead"
story. It's also a wee bit too "Dark Awakening"-ish for my tastes.
Still, we'll never know.
It might have been cool if executed properly.
However, done wrongly and Dinobot becomes the Optimus Prime of BW.
(Sacrifice, resurrection, sacrifice, resurrection, sacrifice, resurrection
...)
Cheers,
WarWolf
"Perhaps our originality manifests itself most strikingly in what we do with
that which we did not originate. To discover something wholly new can be a
matter of chance, of idle tinkering, or even of the chronic dissatisfaction of
the untalented." - Eric Hoffer
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
ViceGripX
>I know this is only an outline but how could have Hasbro deemed this too
>dark or grim for children? I've seen plenty of cartoons that had eps that
>were much 'darker' than this, with adult overtones (ie. Batman, some
>Japanese anime broadcast in the US, etc).
Well, all we have is the outline. Only Christy Marx (who wrote it) and a
select few others truly know all the details behind the episode. There
could have been a rather gruesome scene when the old Dinobot lost the
psychic battle. Or, perhaps, the resurrection of the dead (such as it is)
would have been too much for the younger end of the target audience to
handle. All we can do now is speculate and wait...
Ronald Ng
ArtieAnole wrote:
> Joona I Palaste wrote:
> >
> > I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", and he said
> > that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
> > inofficial outline. So here we go...
> >
> > ** Cut here **
> >
> > Remember, this is an inofficial outline from Larry DiTillio, and Christy
> > Manx herself is still the only person who knows all the details. If you
> > have any questions, e-mail DiTillio at diti...@aol.com. Discussion is
> > also welcome here.
> >
> AHA! the mystery of what Dinobot downloaded into the computer is
> solved.....as is the mystery of darkglass.....i wonder what plotpoints
> might still be stuck into Go with the flow?
>
> Artie Anole
That's great Joona, I can really see how this episode is pushing the limits with the
kids (dealing with death and loss and stuff). It would have made an excellent ep for
the old crowd though, I've been following Christy Marx's work and she has a knack
for not putting out superfluous dialog and focusing on character interaction.
Also, no elements were brought into Go With the Flow. Go With the Flow is a typical
filler script.
Ron
ViceGripX
>TMII Dinobot wrote...
>>
>> Damn it! That could have been the greatest episode with COH!!!
>> How comes Hasbro rejected the script!? If they did, Hasbro is a major
suck
>> up!
>
>ummmm, a suck up to who?.....geez everybody shuttup about hasbro, i'm
>sure they had their reasons
Exactly my thoughts. Hasbro is a wonderful company despite what some may
think. They could have very well never came up with Beast Wars at all and
let TFs die off with G2. But, they took a chance and have another success.
They have their reasons, so why can't we just leave it at that?
ViceGripX
>Damn it! That could have been the greatest episode with COH!!!
>How comes Hasbro rejected the script!? If they did, Hasbro is a major suck
>up!
Once again, this is only an outline. We have no idea what details the
script may have that Hasbro deemed it too dark. You also have to remember
that the target audience for Beast Wars are males in their pre-teens (I
believe). So, things are usually geared so that that particular audience
can understand and appreciate the show.
And why, preytell, does rejecting a script make Hasbro a suck up? They are
looking out for their overall audience.
Now, please repeat after me:
"Outline does not equal script.
Outline does not equal script.
Outline does not equal script."
ViceGripX - who almost wishes that the _outline_ hadn't been posted because
of follow up posts like this one.
Jon Hartman
>
> TMII Dinobot wrote:
> >
> > Damn it! That could have been the greatest episode with COH!!!
> > How comes Hasbro rejected the script!? If they did, Hasbro is a major suck
> > up!
>
> sure they had their reasons
Actually, it wasn't Hasbro who canned the episode. It was Claster, the
folks who distribute the show. Apparently they felt Dark Glass didn't
fulfill their "action and excitement" requirement since it dealt more
with an internal struggle. Hasbro had no problem with the episode, so
everyone really should point their fingers at Claster.
Jon
--
BotCon '99 -- "Reaching the Omega Point"
http://www.botcon.com <-- Read the BotCon '99 FAQ for all the answers!
http://noble.cioe.com/~jhartman/tf/tf.html
ViceGripX
>ArtieAnole wrote...
>> TMII Dinobot wrote:
>> > Damn it! That could have been the greatest episode with COH!!!
>> > How comes Hasbro rejected the script!? If they did, Hasbro is a major
suck
>> > up!
>> ummmm, a suck up to who?.....geez everybody shuttup about hasbro, i'm
>> sure they had their reasons
>
>Actually, it wasn't Hasbro who canned the episode. It was Claster, the
>folks who distribute the show. Apparently they felt Dark Glass didn't
>fulfill their "action and excitement" requirement since it dealt more
>with an internal struggle. Hasbro had no problem with the episode, so
>everyone really should point their fingers at Claster.
Thanks for clearing that one up for us, Jon. I, personally, keep forgetting
that Claster is a deciding factor as much as hasbro and Mainframe and did
not know that it was Claster that pulled the plug on this particular
episode.
Thanks! :)
Dayraven
<An...@warriorprincess.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <7ae17u$os$1...@oravannahka.Helsinki.FI>, Joona I Palaste
><pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> writes
>>P
>>O
>>I
>>L
>>E
>>R
>>
>>S
>>P
>>A
>>C
>>E
>>
<snip summary>
>ARGH!
>NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
>That would have been the GREATEST episode in the history of great
>episodes!!!!!!
Well, it sounds better than "Go With the Flow", at the very least...
One problem I might have, judging from the summary, is that with a clone
_and_ a memory download, Dinobot would be in the running for the Optimus
Prime Memorial Most Resurrections Award.
It might have worked out smoothly in that respect, or it might have seemed a
little tacky.
James Moar
"...and you wonder why they don't call him the _credible_ Hulk..."
mlma...@coe.edu
"Rapido" <jne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I know this is only an outline but how could have Hasbro deemed this too
> dark or grim for children? I've seen plenty of cartoons that had eps that
> were much 'darker' than this, with adult overtones (ie. Batman, some
> Japanese anime broadcast in the US, etc).
True. However, remember that
1) Hasbro's trying to aim BW at a younger audience than those
shows.
2) More importantly, Hasbro didn't have the show canned until
it hit the _script_ stage. It may be that Ms. Marx was taking
aspects of this outline and developing them in directions that
did push the boundaries as far as Hasbro was concerned. Of
course, we'll probably never know for sure.
> I think the boat was missed on what could have been a memoriable BW ep.
I agree with you there. This could have been classic. OTOH,
it might have taken away from CoH a little to see Dinobot again,
even if it was just an 'illusion' of the real chopperface. :-)
Still, this had definite potential.
> JN
Matthew L. Martin
Wazzpin8or
Hero. ::::
That would hardly be much of an acomplishment.....
-Kil
Ripping on Codverated is always fun when I'm bored : )
--------
Michael Kilborn McCarthy, known simply as Kil
Wazzp...@aol.com
Kilb...@aol.com
Visit Kil's Waspinator Worship Page at
http://hometown.aol.com/Wazzpin8or/index.html
"Impossible is a word humans use far too often." -Seven of Nine
Wazzpin8or
Which would be bad, cause CoH takes plenty away from itself as is....
-Kil
Finback
> I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", and he said
> that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
> inofficial outline. So here we go...
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> ** Cut here **
>
> Rattrap salvages a computer bank from the Axalon and in it's circuits he and
> Rhinox find the Core consciousness of the old DinoBot (which as you will
> recall DinoBot downloaded in a previous episode). Rattrap gets obsessed with
> the idea that he can restore the old DinoBot by getting it into the new
> Dinobot's systems. Rhinox tells him this will probably not work, as core
> consciousness without a spark is only an illusion of the person to whom it
> belonged. And if it didn't work, it just might give the new Dinobot all the
> old Dinobot's datatrax on the Maximals which could give the Preds and
> advantage. Optimus thus forbids the attempt. But Rattrap defies this order,
> sneaks out and at much risk to himself, does manage to get the core
> consciousness in place. For a moment the old DinoBot does seem to emerge but
> as Rhinox warned he is only a shadow of his former self and must do everything
> he can to keep the new DinoBot from regaining control of his body, a weird
> mental struggle which would have been fun to animate. The old Dinobot knows
Does anyone else have the image of the scene from "Army of
Darkness" when Ash splits in two, the two heads beating each other up?
"What are you? Are you me?"
+-----------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Marcus Good aka "Finback" | "That which is not dead |
| eg...@cc.curtin.edu.au | can eternal lie, |
| http://student.curtin.edu.au/~egood | And with strange aeons |
+-----------------------------------------+ even death may die." |
|"These things happen to other people, | -- HP Lovecraft, |
| they don't happen at all, in fact." | "Call of Cthulhu". |
|- They Might Be Giants, "She's An Angel".| |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bald Evil
Joona I Palaste wrote:
>
> I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", and he said
> that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
> inofficial outline. So here we go...
An interesting story concept was here...
>
> Remember, this is an inofficial outline from Larry DiTillio, and Christy
> Manx herself is still the only person who knows all the details. If you
> have any questions, e-mail DiTillio at diti...@aol.com. Discussion is
> also welcome here.
>
I'll go out on a limb here and say this: I'm glad this episode was not made.
I'm tired of dead characters finding their way back to the land of the
living for another round of action and adventure. Certainly, there's a
mythological precedent, but it has become a cliche' of such staggering
proportions that it has almost entirely diluted a FAR more important
narrative device: the heroic sacrifice.
I'm not a great one for quoting the Bible, but these words are Truth as far
as I'm concerned:
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his
friends".
(John 15:13)
Of course, this is largely a subjective point of view, but for my own part I
could not agree more. And that's why the death of Dinobot was affecting and
meaningful. He gave up his life, not only for his friends, but for Mankind,
and to redeem himself for his own sake and for others. Bringing him back in
any way cheapens his sacrifice. Personally, I would rather see Rattrap set
on the destruction of the new Dinobot for defiling the memory of the
original than trying to bring the dead back to life.
The resurrected hero (and/or villain) has been done to DEATH (no pun
intended) in comics, movies, books... all media which I would venture most
of the ATT has strong interest in. I'm surprised so many people would want
to see it happen again. I may be among the very few who were disappointed
with the return of Optimus Prime in G1; I prefer the dead to stay dead. I
thought Prime was a great character, and died needlessly and badly, but that
happens in life, too. If heroes don't pass from our company, how can they
become legends? And legends last forever, even if bodies, flesh or metal, do
not. I'm glad Dinobot was left to rest.
B.E.
Absolutely, positively, is not coming back once he gets to take his dirt nap
war...@my-dejanews.com
major plot point of Feral Scream, so I'm including spoiler space (just hit
the PgDn key, yes?)
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
Bald Evil <bald...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip Dark Glass set up>
> I'll go out on a limb here and say this: I'm glad this episode was not made.
> I'm tired of dead characters finding their way back to the land of the
> living for another round of action and adventure.
Agreed. That was my main grouse with the "Dark Glass" episode outline as well.
Been there, done that ... several times over in the annals of Transformer-dom,
yes?
It's becoming a running gag, an unamusing one at that.
<snip>
> And that's why the death of Dinobot was affecting and
> meaningful. He gave up his life, not only for his friends, but for Mankind,
> and to redeem himself for his own sake and for others.
Or as one legendary ATTer put it: "he lived a warrior ans died to an hero" ;)
<snippity snip>
> Personally, I would rather see Rattrap set
> on the destruction of the new Dinobot for defiling the memory of the
> original than trying to bring the dead back to life.
That is the only aspect of the "Dark Glass" episode outline that appeals to
me: Rattrap's dilemma.
We've seen Rattrap and Dinobot's relationship develop for two seasons and the
events in "Maximal No More" and "Code of Hero" clearly showed that, for all
the snide remarks and caustic putdowns, these two had formed an
unconventional friendship.
In "Dark Glass", Rattrap defies his commander and perhaps common sense to
bring his friend back from the dead. It might have been a moving episode,
particularly at the end when he apparently fails.
I've not seen a single Season Three episode but judging from synopses and
reviews I've read, Rattrap hasn't had much of a major reaction to Dinobot II.
Is he heartened by his friend's apparent return? Is he repulsed by this
amoral facsimile? I dunno. Like I said, I haven't seen a single S3 episode.
Waaugh.
But Dark Glass *might* have answered those questions.
<snip>
> I
> thought Prime was a great character, and died needlessly and badly, but that
> happens in life, too.
I'm with you on the "great character" part (hey, he *is* my favourite TF <g>)
but I dunno about his death being needless, though. I'm assuming that this
particular death is the TF:TM one.
I'm probably reading *way* too much into it <g> but I always thought Prime
was righteously angered (and perhaps even guilty) over the deaths of the
Autobots - including his "old friend", Ironhide - on that ill-fated shuttle.
"Megatron must be stopped ... no matter the cost."
That was the prelude to one helluva kamikaze run through the Decepticon ranks
culminating in a final showdown with his eternal nemesis. And his sacrifice
apparently "turned the tide" in the Battle of Autobot City.
When you consider The Big Picture, *perhaps* Prime's death in TF:TM was
needless but it was - at least to me - meaningful. The other Prime deaths
seemed to be variations on a theme.
<snip>
> I may be among the very few who were disappointed
> with the return of Optimus Prime in G1;
I was actually glad to see the big lug back in "Dark Awakening." Well, at
least until he died (again) at the end of the episode and was resurrected
(again) in TRoOP. :(
And that's just the cartoon. When you consider the comics (G1 and G2) and
Japanese series, you might be tempted to scream, "Die already!"
It's heartening to see that Optimus Primal has thus far done the "sacrifice
and resurrection" routine just once. May he live long and prosper.
Cheers,
WarWolf
"He that doth not as other men do, but endeavoureth that which ought to be
done, shall thereby rather incur peril than preservation; for whoso laboureth
to be sincerely perfect and good shall necessarily perish, living among men
that are generally evil." - Sir Walter Raleigh
"If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to
live." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Rapido
I don't understand why or how they would be involved in the actual canning
of an ep.
But then again television broadcast programming is not my area of expertise.
JN
Jon Hartman wrote in message <36CB57...@noble.cioe.com>...
>ArtieAnole wrote:
>>
>> TMII Dinobot wrote:
>> >
>> > Damn it! That could have been the greatest episode with COH!!!
>> > How comes Hasbro rejected the script!? If they did, Hasbro is a major
suck
>> > up!
>>
>> ummmm, a suck up to who?.....geez everybody shuttup about hasbro, i'm
>> sure they had their reasons
>
>Actually, it wasn't Hasbro who canned the episode. It was Claster, the
>folks who distribute the show. Apparently they felt Dark Glass didn't
>fulfill their "action and excitement" requirement since it dealt more
>with an internal struggle. Hasbro had no problem with the episode, so
>everyone really should point their fingers at Claster.
>
Rapido
JN
Rockman666 wrote in message <19990217164343...@ng21.aol.com>...
>>I know this is only an outline but how could have Hasbro deemed this too
>>dark or grim for children? I've seen plenty of cartoons that had eps that
>>were much 'darker' than this, with adult overtones (ie. Batman, some
>>Japanese anime broadcast in the US, etc).
>
Rapido
>it might have taken away from CoH a little to see Dinobot again,
>even if it was just an 'illusion' of the real chopperface. :-)
>Still, this had definite potential.
This is a good point. One of my faves is Optimus Prime and it's rather
unfortunate that death & resurrection for him is rather standard fare. I
think if Op were to die again I wouldn't feel as much as when Dinobot died.
JN
ArtieAnole
>
> The following post discusses some Season Three stuff and in particular, a
> major plot point of Feral Scream, so I'm including spoiler space (just hit
> the PgDn key, yes?)
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> S
>
>
> <snippity snip>
>
> > Personally, I would rather see Rattrap set
> > on the destruction of the new Dinobot for defiling the memory of the
> > original than trying to bring the dead back to life.
>
> That is the only aspect of the "Dark Glass" episode outline that appeals to
> me: Rattrap's dilemma.
>
> We've seen Rattrap and Dinobot's relationship develop for two seasons and the
> events in "Maximal No More" and "Code of Hero" clearly showed that, for all
> the snide remarks and caustic putdowns, these two had formed an
> unconventional friendship.
>
> In "Dark Glass", Rattrap defies his commander and perhaps common sense to
> bring his friend back from the dead. It might have been a moving episode,
> particularly at the end when he apparently fails.
>
> I've not seen a single Season Three episode but judging from synopses and
> reviews I've read, Rattrap hasn't had much of a major reaction to Dinobot II.
> Is he heartened by his friend's apparent return? Is he repulsed by this
> amoral facsimile? I dunno. Like I said, I haven't seen a single S3 episode.
> Waaugh.
>
> But Dark Glass *might* have answered those questions.
>
> <snip>
>
Although i thought Go with the Flow was a good episode, i couldnt help
but think that we were meant to know the information about Darkglass as
we watched the episode....several times rattrap and dinobot II
confronted each other in this episode , and each time there was sort of
an akward pause (at least it seemed to me) where Rattrap just kinda
stared at Dinobot and with what i knew about darkglass i could almost
know what he was thinking....it was pretty wierd......anyway i guess we
can imagine that darkglass happened anyway and nothing would really seem
out of place
ArtieAnole
(thought Go with the Flow was non-stop hilarity)
Optimus
wrote:
: I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", and he said
: that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
: inofficial outline. So here we go...
[summary snipped]
Please, PLEASE tell me that "Go With the Flow" was not meant to replace
*that*. If so, then it's got to be the most heinous of crimes to the
Beast Wars show. Just that brief outline of "Dark Glass" displayed
better characterization and more intelligence than the drivel that
was GWTF, and from my corner looks like it could've been the top show
of the season!
Ian Merrithew - UNB Fredericton
Doug Kern
B
L
A
C
K
A
R
A
C
H
N
I
A
In article <eKcBMqrW#GA....@nih2naaf.prod2.compuserve.com>, "Rapido"
<jne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I know this is only an outline but how could have Hasbro deemed this too
> dark or grim for children? I've seen plenty of cartoons that had eps that
> were much 'darker' than this, with adult overtones (ie. Batman, some
> Japanese anime broadcast in the US, etc).
>
> I think the boat was missed on what could have been a memoriable BW ep.
I think it may have been canned because it is sending out a
contridictory message. After what was stated at the end of "Proving
Grounds", about how BA's option to go Maximal would be her choice only,
this is just the opposet, with Rattrap forcing the memory download on
Dinobot2. Hasbro probally was worried about this, and canned the ep.
--
Doug Kern
AKA Monocle
ICQ Page #:8793444
dke...@idt.net
Homepage: http://idt.net/~dkern2
Come visit the Shrine to Blackarachnia!:http://idt.net/~dkern2/Blackarachnia
Colin, Colleen, and Simon Jack
>
> ArtieAnole wrote:
>
> > >
> > > I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", and he said
> > > that the actual script is off limits, but he did send me a brief,
> > > inofficial outline. So here we go...
> > >
> > > P
> > > O
> > > I
> > > L
> > > E
> > > R
> > >
> > > S
> > > A
> > > C
> > > E
> > >
> > > ** Cut here **
> > >
> > > Rattrap salvages a computer bank from the Axalon and in it's circuits he and
> > > Rhinox find the Core consciousness of the old DinoBot (which as you will
> > > recall DinoBot downloaded in a previous episode). Rattrap gets obsessed with
> > > the idea that he can restore the old DinoBot by getting it into the new
> > > Dinobot's systems. Rhinox tells him this will probably not work, as core
> > > consciousness without a spark is only an illusion of the person to whom it
> > > belonged. And if it didn't work, it just might give the new Dinobot all the
> > > old Dinobot's datatrax on the Maximals which could give the Preds and
> > > advantage. Optimus thus forbids the attempt. But Rattrap defies this order,
> > > sneaks out and at much risk to himself, does manage to get the core
> > > consciousness in place. For a moment the old DinoBot does seem to emerge but
> > > as Rhinox warned he is only a shadow of his former self and must do everything
> > > he can to keep the new DinoBot from regaining control of his body, a weird
> > > mental struggle which would have been fun to animate. The old Dinobot knows
> > > infilitrating the Preds and taking out Megatron before he can complete his
> > > master plan to destroy the AutoBots. It doesn't work and the New Dinobot
> > > regains control of his body only to be blasted by Meagtron. Rattrap comes to
> > > accept that his old pal is truly dead and realizes he cannot bring him back.
> > > However he honors his friends memory.
> > >
> > > ** Cut here **
> > >
> > > Manx herself is still the only person who knows all the details. If you
> > > have any questions, e-mail DiTillio at diti...@aol.com. Discussion is
> > > also welcome here.
> > >
> > solved.....as is the mystery of darkglass.....i wonder what plotpoints
> > might still be stuck into Go with the flow?
> >
> > Artie Anole
>
> That's great Joona, I can really see how this episode is pushing the limits with the
> kids (dealing with death and loss and stuff).
Colin, Colleen, and Simon Jack
>
> :::: Dark Glass seems like it would probably have been better than Code of
> Hero. ::::
>
> That would hardly be much of an acomplishment.....
>
> -Kil
> Ripping on Codverated is always fun when I'm bored : )
>
> Michael Kilborn McCarthy, known simply as Kil
> Wazzp...@aol.com
> Kilb...@aol.com
> Visit Kil's Waspinator Worship Page at
> http://hometown.aol.com/Wazzpin8or/index.html
> "Impossible is a word humans use far too often." -Seven of Nine
mlma...@coe.edu
mlma...@coe.edu wrote:
I hate following up my own posts, but I wanted to add something:
> True. However, remember that
> 1) Hasbro's trying to aim BW at a younger audience than those
> shows.
> 2) More importantly, Hasbro didn't have the show canned until
> it hit the _script_ stage. It may be that Ms. Marx was taking
> aspects of this outline and developing them in directions that
> did push the boundaries as far as Hasbro was concerned. Of
> course, we'll probably never know for sure.
3) As Jon Hartman pointed out, the decision appears to
have been Claster's, rather than Hasbro's. If anyone from
Hasbro is reading this group, my apologies for the mixup;
I assure you, it was unintentional.
Matthew L. Martin
SLIMER1509
Just the brief outline, though aflicted with the bring-the-dead-back-to-life
thing (which I honestly could have watched quite happily), had more
characterization and character-driven scenes than pretty much ANY ep this
season so far that I've seen. Characterization is really lacking in this
season.
Robert Hawkins
> I'll go out on a limb here and say this: I'm glad this episode was not made.
>
> meaningful. He gave up his life, not only for his friends, but for Mankind,
> on the destruction of the new Dinobot for defiling the memory of the
> original than trying to bring the dead back to life.
I agree with you, Mr. Evil. The episode sounds like it might have been
interesting (if only because it would have finally been an episode where
characters even _think_ about their fallen comrades after the fact).
I'm surprised that no one has a problem with the fact that there's a
bastard clone running around defiling the name of one of the Maximals'
greatest heroes.
But yeah, there's nothing "heroic" about your "sacrifice" if you can just
come back to life.
> The resurrected hero (and/or villain) has been done to DEATH (no pun
> intended) in comics, movies, books... all media which I would venture most
> of the ATT has strong interest in. I'm surprised so many people would want
> to see it happen again.
Superman, anyone? Do you believe that I actually thought Supes would STAY
dead? I thought his death would actually MEAN something. Silly me.
> I may be among the very few who were disappointed
> with the return of Optimus Prime in G1; I prefer the dead to stay dead. I
> thought Prime was a great character, and died needlessly and badly, but that
> happens in life, too. If heroes don't pass from our company, how can they
> become legends?
I wish Prime had stayed dead as well. I don't think his death was
"needless" though. It was perfect. The Autobot/ Decepticon war was in a
way, between Megatron and Prime. You knew that sooner or later the two
would come to blows (an "it was always between us" sort of thing), and
that one of them would not walk away. Thay saved that glorious clash for
the movie, and sure enough, both combatants fell.
(And I don't want to hear any of that 'it was Hot Rod's fault' crap.)
Without the prospect of ACTUAL death, the conflict is meaningless.
(That's why I got sick of the GI Joe cartoon.) And death doesn't count if
the character comes back to life.
> And legends last forever, even if bodies, flesh or metal, do
> not. I'm glad Dinobot was left to rest.
Ditto.
--Matrix
-----------------------------------------------------------
Just when you think you've encountered the stupidest person
on earth, someone else comes along and lowers the standard.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Cicadacon
Bald Evil wrote:
>
> I'll go out on a limb here and say this: I'm glad this episode was not made.
>
<snip well-written argument>
I agree with your point on resurrection being overdone, but I really think it
would be something worthwhile in this case. First off, it *doesn't* work in the
end, which doesn't really make it RoOP cheesy. And secondly, it would have
given Rattrap a great chance for characterization. (And for the record, I DO
know that this was only an outline given, and I don't know all the script's
details.) If asked whether or not I would have wanted it made, my vote would be
"yes".
Cicadacon
Prime Saber
last season. ^_^ It would be more interesting than its replacement
if the struggle between Dinobot's consciousness and TM2 Dinobot is
animated well. However, I would think Rhinox knows more about the
workings of a TF than Rattrap, and the episode would have made any
future return of Dinobot more difficult.
Tony Li, the Prime Saber
Index page to the Japanese and Beast Wars Transformers, including
pictures, videos, and my own models of Galvatron and God Ginrai --
http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/manwood/484/TF/TF.html
Prime Saber
>
> The following post discusses some Season Three stuff and in particular, a
> major plot point of Feral Scream, so I'm including spoiler space (just hit
> the PgDn key, yes?)
There's also a snippet from "Proving Grounds".
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> S
>
> I've not seen a single Season Three episode but judging from synopses and
> reviews I've read, Rattrap hasn't had much of a major reaction to Dinobot
> II. Is he heartened by his friend's apparent return? Is he repulsed by
> this amoral facsimile? I dunno. Like I said, I haven't seen a single S3
> episode.
Rattrap hasn't made any actual comment on TM2 Dinobot, although we got a
peek at his thoughts about the original Dinobot in "Proving Grounds".
I imagine he would just regard TM2 Dinobot as yet another Predacon.
(About Optimus Prime)
> And that's just the cartoon. When you consider the comics (G1 and G2) and
> Japanese series, you might be tempted to scream, "Die already!"
In the Japanese series, Optimus himself only died once (in the Headmaster
series). The other one who looks like him, God Ginrai, died once himself
in the Victory series. Personally I think Optimus' death was unnecessary
in hindsight and excessive, since he had just been resurrected at the very
end of the (3rd season/2010 series). On the other hand, God Ginrai jumped
in the way to take a death blow meant for Star Saber, since he didn't have
any time to try to fire at Deszaras or move Star Saber out of the way.
> It's heartening to see that Optimus Primal has thus far done the
> "sacrifice and resurrection" routine just once. May he live long and
> prosper.
Amen. ^_^
stratim...@webtv.net
I think this would've been a great, if not one of the best episodes
out the whole series. I don't believe it would've cheapened Dinobot's
sacrifice at all. The outline said Dinobot would've only been a "shadow
of his former self", and that he knew he could never completely come
back, and that he would ultimately lose the struggle between himself and
Dinobot II. In my opinion, he wasn't resurrected. He didn't come back
from the dead, as if nothing happened.
Then there's Rattrap. It would've been great to see his obsession
with the idea that he could somehow bring Chopperface back. "Code of
Hero" did deal with death, but I don't believe we've seen how the
Maximals dealt with loss. It would've been great to see that, after all
this time has passed since Dinobot's death, Rattrap is still (privately
perhaps) mourning the death of his friend, and how he discovers a way
to bring him back, thus, he believes, bringing an end to his pain
inside. Of course he would ultimately fail, and come to realize that
you can never go back to the past, and that you must learn to let go of
it and accept it, and move on with your life, bringing only those good
memories of friends who have passed away before their time.
Well, that's how I will picture the episode anyways. With the
emphasis on Rattraps emotional struggle within.
Stratimus Prime
LrdJhiaxus
In article <OIVEF41W#GA....@ntdwwaaw.compuserve.com>, "Rapido"
<jne...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Claster? I didn't realize that the distributor had that type of infuence and
>I don't understand why or how they would be involved in the actual canning
>of an ep.
Please note that Claster is a division of Hasbro. This message has made your
day a little more surreal.
Http://members.aol.com/lrdjhiaxus/Index.html
TMWaspinator@#Transfiction.DALNet
Ronald Ng
> Ronald Ng wrote:
> > That's great Joona, I can really see how this episode is pushing the limits with >the
> kids (dealing with death and loss and stuff).
> Death and loss. 3 words Code. Of. Hero. So there!
Yes, yes Code of Hero and the resurrection would have been in lines with The Return of
Optimus Prime, but the point I was trying to make, and that I should have elaborated on,
is the style of Beast Wars would make this script surreal enough to the point of
resembling a horror flick (exaggeration on my part). I mean consider the story, how
Rattrap forces Dinobot's Datatrax into a skeleton looking TM2 Dinobot and then the big
battle resulting in TM2 Dinobot's defeat.
Again, back to the style of Beast Wars, it certainly is darker than Transformers was
because of the look of the CGI, the depth of the writing and the plot line. Therefore I
can see a lot single parent or orphaned kids (another exaggeration on my part) watching
the episode and getting a lot of empathy from it . I hope you see my point though. I don't
think Claster wanted complaints about making the kids experience loss through the example
of the friends, Rattrap and Dinobot.
R
Hex
* *Joona I Palaste and Optimus said...
I asked Larry DiTillio about the script for "Dark Glass", [...] but he did
send me a brief, inofficial outline.
- - -
Please, PLEASE tell me that "Go With the Flow" was not meant to replace
*that*. If so, then it's got to be the most heinous of crimes to the Beast
Wars show. Just that brief outline of "Dark Glass" displayed better
characterization and more intelligence than the drivel that was GWTF, and from
my corner looks like it could've been the top show of the season!
- - - -- - - -
First off, Thanks Joona & especially Larry D. for even getting a summary
of 'Dark Glass' into the fanbase's hands. I admit, that I at least wanted to
know what the script was about; my fear that the lockdown of info on it would
be limited to whatever spoilers were pryed out of
(Bob/Larry/Hasbro/Mainframe/whatever) and our own speculation. As far as I am
concerned, I am satisfied with the synopsis of the rejected script. Let's
face it people, Beast Wars has got to be one of the most mature 30 minute
commercials to come down the pike in a good long time. Which leads me to
present a fairly harsh truth that fans hate to recognise. (Including me. /;v]
)
Hasbro is trying to sell toys to kids ages 5-12 here. Not the 20 some-odd
old collecter/fan such as myself. 'Dark Glass' borders on (if we were dealing
with humans instead of robots) the concept of Necromancy. The only reason we
saw 'Feral Scream', is probably because Hasbro said, "We want these toys in
the show..." To write gritty stories without any gain (corporate mindset
wise) is unnecessary. It's a miracle that we saw 'Law of the Jungle'
(Tigatron's companion dies.) Death is a pretty hefty topic to adress in any
form of kidvid. And while many dislike the episode, 'The Low Road' it's quite
obviously a tounge-in-cheek episode that didn't have to occur. Even then, we
get a bit of characterization concerning the relationship between Dinobot &
Rattrap. By the same token, you could almost consider 'Go with the Flow' the
same style. Overall, it is a throwaway, but it did add a touch of depth
(painful as it is) to the pre-human kids. No, I don't want them in the show
as pseudo-feature characters, but that was not my decision.
To wrap up, 'Dark Glass' could have added some characterization between
Rattrap and the late Dinobot, but it didn't happen. You and I are going to
have to get over it. :v] Also realize, that it also would have been a pretty
grim episode, and getting the _TARGET AUDIENCE_ (kids ages 5-12) to understand
a lot of these heavy topics would be difficult. While 'GwtF' won't rank on my
top 10 list of kick-butt BW episodes, I don't mind it that much.
And if you want to fill in the gaps, write a fanfic. Scrap 'Dark Glass'
and write your _OWN_ version of how Rattrap deals with the death of Dinobot.
And if it winds up sounding a lot like Dark Glass you might want to give a nod
to Bob & Larry for the idea -- I'm sure they would appreciate it.
Party on!
Hex.
[ Making my own reality...]
Hex's World: It's okay. Http://w3.one.net/~hex/
Blue-Jackal
version???
--
Blue-Jackal
Sugarbot of Dinobot;)
Guardian of Starscreams spark;)
Sworn enemy of G*lv*tron!!
Protector of Retrax and Silverbolt:)
(Blackarachnia of the ATT RPG)
(FACT: Airazor is the daughter of Deszaras)
http://www.geocities.com/~orion_neos/bjackal.html
"As I preducted!"
Breakdown - (Masquerade)
Remove 123 from reply addy to contact me
ArkN...@my-dejanews.com
Blue-Jackal <An...@123warriorprincess.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> As we now know what "Dark glass" is about, why not get busy on a fan fic
> version???
You mean EVERYONE write a version, then we all compare scripts? Ohhh!
Headacheville!
ArkNorth
-------------------------------------------------------------
Headacheville is Blackarachnia's brother
http://members.tripod.com/arknorth/magnastats.htm
Blue-Jackal
writes
>> As we now know what "Dark glass" is about, why not get busy on a fan fic
>> version???
>
>You mean EVERYONE write a version, then we all compare scripts? Ohhh!
>Headacheville!
Well why not, it's something to do on a rainy (uh, sunny) day:)
I'm certainly going to write one, or atleast I will when I see "Freal
scream" which should be in two or three weeks time:)
theoptimu...@gmail.com
> As we now know what "Dark glass" is about, why not get busy on a fan fic
> version???
Also, Since there still wasn't anything that was made of that (about 10 years ago) The Podcast I co-host (optimusprimecast.com) Recently made a "Radio Drama" version of said script.
You can listen to our production of Dark Glass, free on our Patreon page- https://www.patreon.com/optimusprimecast
Or by subscribing to our Podcast through iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/transformers-beast-wars-podcast/id945076627
Or direct to our RSS feed.http://optimusprimecast.libsyn.com
I hope you all enjoy it as much as we did making it.
Zobovor
> I hope you all enjoy it as much as we did making it.
(I'm awake way too early and I'm cranky and tired. Wind storms literally ripping trees out of the ground. Stuff like this.)
https://youtu.be/kPPmYo2cvFk
Zob
Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats
> On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:25:37 AM UTC-6, theoptimu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I hope you all enjoy it as much as we did making it.
>
> In retrospect, I can't believe how crazy we as a fandom went over this. Every show has its share of unproduced or unrealized stories. We knew about "The Greater Ape," too, but nobody went gonzo about trying to get that story to see the light of day.
"it focused on Optimus Primal who, after a blow to the head, believed himself to be an actual gorilla. He ingratiated himself into a group of gorillas, even romancing a female ape, until an attack by Megatron on the gorillas brought him back to his senses; his gorilla ladyfriend rejected the real Primal."
"Dark Glass" would have given us a look into the very nature of Transformers, showing what is experience (or transferred memory) and what is in the spark. And it would have helped explain Dinobot II's sudden change of heart at the end of the series (don't talk to me about Dinobot's spark coming in from sparkville... if it was anyone's spark it was Rampage's spark)
"A Greater Ape" would have given us ... bestiality. And we already had Tigatron for that.
It's like why everyone prefers "War Dawn" to "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide".
> (I'm awake way too early and I'm cranky and tired. Wind storms literally ripping trees out of the ground. Stuff like this.)
>
> https://youtu.be/kPPmYo2cvFk