The Interview with Jeff Mangiat
Zobovor
Mangiat, the guy who did the 1986 back-of-the-box art that we saw on
eBay a few days ago:
Apparently in addition to the 1985 and 1986 battle scenes, he also did
the portrait artwork for the original Optimus Prime, Jazz, Mirage, and
the Decepticon jets. This challenges my assumptions about the
Diaclone toy line, because I had always been under the assumption that
pretty much all the 1984-85 box art was Japanese in origin, except for
the toys that didn't exist as part of Diaclone or Microman (Skywarp,
for example).
I admit to being a little ignorant about the pre-Transformers lines in
general. I'd always been operating under this assumption that the
Diaclone and Microman packaging used all these old illustrations, but
a quick check through Google reveals that the Diaclone version of
Ultra Magnus, for example, uses a totally different illustration,
while others don't seem to have package artwork at all—only photos of
the robot mode. Have I really been totally wrong about this all this
time?
It really, seriously does look to me like all the Autobot symbols and
Decepticon symbols on the 1984-85 artwork were added after the fact.
Starscream's symbols, for example, should be upside-down and not
visible because his arms are blocking much of his wings, but they're
tucked all the way over on the side of the wing so we can see it, and
right-side up to boot. That's always smelled like a last-minute
addition to me. Also, I'd assumed that Skywarp's box art was an
attempt by a Hasbro artist to mimic the style of the Starscream and
Thundercracker art that was done for Diaclone, but now I'm wondering
if I'm totally off about this. Suddenly all these preconceived
notions I had about the box art are totally shattered.
Is there an archive somewhere that shows Diaclone toy packaging and/or
box art? I know there are plenty of web sites that show Diaclone
toys, but I'm specifically interested in the packaging right now.
It's weird having to adjust my this-is-no-longer-true-about-
Transformers settings. I did a lot of that when I first found the
fandom through fanzines and pen pals, and again when I found ATT, but
it's been a really long time since something that I knew to be a basic
fact about Transformers turned out to be wrong. Next thing you know,
somebody's going to tell me that Metroplex was originally a Diaclone
toy or something wacky like that.
(I kid.)
Zob
Chad Rushing
>
> Is there an archive somewhere that shows Diaclone toy packaging and/or
> box art? I know there are plenty of web sites that show Diaclone
> toys, but I'm specifically interested in the packaging right now.
I'm not sure how much Diaclone art there is on Botch the Crab's
archive site, but the following page mentions much of what you just
stated:
http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/history.asp
I remember browsing Botch's G1 box art archive back in the late 90's
when the Internet was not nearly as polished as it is today, so I am
glad to see the site is still up!
> It's weird having to adjust my this-is-no-longer-true-about-
> Transformers settings. I did a lot of that when I first found the
> fandom through fanzines and pen pals, and again when I found ATT, but
> it's been a really long time since something that I knew to be a basic
> fact about Transformers turned out to be wrong. Next thing you know,
> somebody's going to tell me that Metroplex was originally a Diaclone
> toy or something wacky like that.
It came as a bit of a shock to me when I first learned that Hasbro USA
had not invented Transformers themselves, that the toys had been
imported from Japan instead. I learned that from ATT and the
Internet. Also, I didn't know that all those late G1 characters (ex.
Pretenders) had been featured in Japan-only television series back
when I owned a slew of them.
While I'm at it, I never realized that VOLTRON was not an American-
made cartoon when I watched it in elementary school. I just thought
the artists were really bad at making the characters' mouths match the
dialogue. INSPECTOR GADGET's animation always seemed odd to me, too,
but I would not realize that it had been animated in Japan until
decades later.
- Chad
Evil King Macrocranios
> the robot mode. Have I really been totally wrong about this all this
> time?
Maz did a great deal of research trying to come up with a product
release order for the Diaclone Car Robots and in the process came up
with a list of which ones had art and which had photos on the boxes:
Argus
> I'm not sure how much Diaclone art there is on Botch the Crab's
> archive site, but the following page mentions much of what you just
> stated:
>
> http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/history.asp
Dang.. memories. I remember letting a fellow fan come over and scan
some of my japanese and european boxed stuff for this site. We
actually had to burn cd's and stuff to get the data out of my house
later on.... That must have been somewhere in the 1999/2000 range I
think.
Phillip Thorne
>Over on tformers.com they conducted a short interview with Jeff
>Mangiat, the guy who did the 1986 back-of-the-box art that we saw on
>eBay a few days ago:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/mangiat
Fascinating but (ouch) the spelling! the punctuation!
Ah, the 1980s, when commercial artists used pigment.
Involved persons keep coming out of the woodwork (or being excavated,
or whatever metaphor you want). I wonder if they've ever been
collated in one place, a sort of synthetic credits-scroll? Oh right,
that's what wikis are for.
<http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Jeffrey_Mangiat>
Hmmm. That article links to tformers.com, but could do with some
expansion to cover additional salient points.
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
Zobovor
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maz did a great deal of research trying to come up with a product
> release order for the Diaclone Car Robots and in the process came up
> with a list of which ones had art and which had photos on the boxes:
>
> http://tf-1.com/articles/pretf_frame.php?art=prod
Ah, I knew that you'd come through for me, crazysteve. Perfect. Maz
is awesome.
Okay, I finally get it now—the reason Hasbro commissioned Jeff Mangiat
to do artwork for Transformers was because not all the Diaclone toys
had box art. Takara was originally just doing photographs of the
robot modes on the box, and they didn't start creating artwork until
later in the toy line. That makes sense. Hasbro wanted a consistent
product presentation so they commissioned artwork to be done for the
missing culprits in a similar style of illustrating. So, I wasn't
quite as wrong as I'd thought I was. (Whew. That's a relief.)
So based on Maz's research and my own findings it looks like it breaks
down approximately like this:
Takara did artwork for Bluestreak, Hound, Prowl, Trailbreaker, and
Wheeljack as well as Hoist, Inferno, Grapple, Skids, Smokescreen, and
Tracks. Hasbro had to do artwork to fill in the missing gaps for
Optimus Prime, Ironhide, Jazz, Mirage, Ratchet, Sideswipe, and
Sunstreaker as well as Red Alert (who is kind of the Autobot
equivalent of Skywarp, who also didn't exist in the Diaclone line).
The only thing about this that doesn't make sense to me is that if
Sunstreaker didn't get Diaclone artwork, then why does the Hasbro box
art have vestigial remnants of the Diaclone color scheme (the red
hinges on his canopy and the red knobs on the inside of his ankles)
that suggests to me an incomplete attempt at color-correction?
http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/autobot/1984/sunstreaker.jpg
I guess it's equally possible that the artist was given a Sunstreaker
model that was hand-painted into its yellow Transformers color scheme,
and that the hand-painted Diaclone sample was incomplete—therefore
making the artwork an accurate representation of the badly-painted
sample.
I love learning new stuff about oldskool Transformers. Doesn't happen
every day, y'know.
Zob
Argus
As Sunstreaker and Sideswipe were swapped at some time (going bu
techspecs amongst others) and were inverted in color in the DIaclone
line, the original made for TF art may well have been red initially.
That doesn't seem too likely if you look at the art though.
The shoulder stickers that were never corrected and are also pictured
here are a vestigal remnant of the issues listed above. Streaker was
made yellow at some point but his stickers remained red.... (the red
bits are intended to make the black bits not stand out in robot mode)
Zobovor
> The shoulder stickers that were never corrected and are also pictured
> here are a vestigal remnant of the issues listed above. Streaker was
> made yellow at some point but his stickers remained red.... (the red
> bits are intended to make the black bits not stand out in robot mode)
The stickers were never changed to yellow, though, so it makes sense
that his shoulders would still be red in the box art. The artist was
just depicting the toy as it actually appeared.
You're right, though—it's possible that even though this was original
Hasbro artwork, it might have been done in red first, and then color-
corrected to yellow when they changed their minds about what they
wanted him to look like. (It actually makes sense for them to be the
same color since they've always been described as twin brothers.
Also, it's perhaps more forgivable that Hasbro mixed them both up
because there were two red Lamborghini Countach toys that they were
unable to tell apart.)
Zob
Evil King Macrocranios
> Ah, I knew that you'd come through for me, crazysteve.
Well that makes one of us. I wish I knew of a one stop collection of
Diaclone and MicroChange packaging that would really answer your
question. I imagine using the list at Diaclone.net http://diaclone.net/orid/list.html
you could piece together pictures and make a collection of pre-TF Car
Robots arts. I don't know of any reference that has all the packages
from Diaclone and MicroChange in one shot on one page.
> Perfect. Maz is awesome.
Maz is one of those guys that knew more about Transformers 10 years
ago than I will ever know in my whole life. I miss the days when
people like him who had first hand knowledge of these things would
post here. I feel like a pretender just recalling other people's
work.
> Okay, I finally get it now—the reason Hasbro commissioned Jeff Mangiat
> to do artwork for Transformers was because not all the Diaclone toys
> had box art. Takara was originally just doing photographs of the
> robot modes on the box, and they didn't start creating artwork until
> later in the toy line. That makes sense.
It looks to me like Hasbro also needed existing artwork modified or
replaced. They took art of figures like Prowl and Thundercracker
(pretty much anyone who was oriented/facing toward the right) and
flipped them. They touched up some like removing the "J-59" from the
chest of the Jeep and they threw out all the existing MicroChange
minibot art. I don't know if there was ever Takara art for Bumblebee,
Cliffjumper or Bumblejumper but I know there was full body shot Takara
art for Gears, Windcharger, Brawn and Huffer. It's in a set of
MicroChange trading cards that I know exists but don't own myself. I
think Martin Lund has a set or had a set. My speculation was that
those poses were too static so Hasbro redid them. I don't know/
remember if the red cassette robot had Takara art that wasn't just the
blue microcassette reused or recolored-for some reason I'm thinking
Rumble's pose is an original Hasbro work also. Someone correct me
here.
Also, in a Seibertron.com interview package artist Richard Marcej
mentioned that Hasbro had a small team of eight artists working on the
package art before he got there, and he started in '83:
> Hasbro wanted a consistent product presentation so they commissioned artwork to be
> done for the missing culprits in a similar style of illustrating.
I wonder if the mirrored art was manipulated electronically somehow or
if they were reaccomplished from scratch. Details like "POLICE" on
Prowl's doors had to have been retouched or repainted or something.
What also throws me is how Takara ended up with different art for
some figures.
Convoy and Trypticon come to mind. I wish I knew the story behind
that.
> I guess it's equally possible that the artist was given a Sunstreaker
> model that was hand-painted into its yellow Transformers color scheme,
> and that the hand-painted Diaclone sample was incomplete—therefore
> making the artwork an accurate representation of the badly-painted
> sample.
I don't know that it was badly painted so much as incomplete. Hasbro
didn't have all the details of the various color schemes worked out
before the promotional materials went into production. I blogged
recently about how certain Autobot car color schemes were still
evolving from the Diaclone models when the '84 Hasbro toy fair catalog
was made. The '84 toy fair catalog Sunstreaker doesn't have the red
roof hinges and ankle tabs like the box art but it is still quite
strange with red rocket boosters and red trigger buttons on his
forearms:
Skywarp was another figure who has several significantly different
details from catalog to catalog until Hasbro figured out how they
wanted the parts on their trees, and of course all of Bluestreak's
Diaclone color schemes appeared in Hasbro promotional material at one
point or another. So they were figuring it out as they went along.
> I love learning new stuff about oldskool Transformers. Doesn't happen
> every day, y'know.
For me it's just about everyday. While one advantage to not being
knowledgeable is living in a constant state of awe, after a while it
gets old and I feel really behind everyone else.
Zobovor
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I imagine using the list at Diaclone.nethttp://diaclone.net/orid/list.html
> you could piece together pictures and make a collection of pre-TF Car
> Robots arts.
That site is a little hard for me to navigate, but it looks like a
useful resource. To be honest, I've never really studied the Diaclone
packaging at length before so I was never aware that there were some
toys that never got Takara artwork at all. I've always had a vague
sense of which portraits were done by Hasbro, but it's good to be able
to validate what I've sort of always suspected.
> I don't know if there was ever Takara art for Bumblebee,
> Cliffjumper or Bumblejumper but I know there was full body shot Takara
> art for Gears, Windcharger, Brawn and Huffer.
You mean Bumblebee's artwork was created by Hasbro? I didn't know
that. I'd assumed it was Takara artwork because he had that cool
Microman sticker on his chest. (Man, the artwork for the Mini
Autobots is bad. The way their arms and legs are so awkwardly posed,
mostly, and the weirdly-shaped Autobot symbols with those sticky-out
ears. Those ears drove me crazy, even as a kid.)
> I don't know/remember if the red cassette robot had Takara art that wasn't
> just the blue microcassette reused or recolored-for some reason I'm thinking
> Rumble's pose is an original Hasbro work also. Someone correct me
> here.
I've seen Frenzy's artwork on Microchange packaging before, but never
Rumble's. I'm actually surprised they didn't just do a color-swap on
Frenzy's artwork to create the art for Rumble, similar to what they
did with Laserbeak's art to get Buzzsaw's. I do believe Rumble's art
is a Hasbro original, though.
> I wonder if the mirrored art was manipulated electronically somehow or
> if they were reaccomplished from scratch. Details like "POLICE" on
> Prowl's doors had to have been retouched or repainted or something.
I really don't know that much about the printing processes that would
have been available in the 1980's. If they utilized offset printing
(inks from a metal plate are transferred to a rubber medium, so the
image is backwards, and then again to paper so it's oriented
correctly) then they could have just mirrored it a second time to
switch the orientation. You're right, though, the lettering would
still have to have been redone.
> > I guess it's equally possible that the artist was given a Sunstreaker
> > model that was hand-painted into its yellow Transformers color scheme,
> > and that the hand-painted Diaclone sample was incomplete—therefore
> > making the artwork an accurate representation of the badly-painted
> > sample.
> The '84 toy fair catalog Sunstreaker doesn't have the red
> roof hinges and ankle tabs like the box art but it is still quite
> strange with red rocket boosters and red trigger buttons on his
> forearms:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y89xgyh
Sunstreaker's got red trigger buttons in his Hasbro instructions,
too. I just checked the 1984 catalog and he's got 'em there, too.
Something else that's kind of interesting is that if you look really
closely at his catalog photo, it looks like he's got red canopy hinges
in vehicle mode. So, maybe his artwork wasn't color-corrected at all,
but was completely accurate to the toy the artist was using for
reference. I can't really think of a good reason why a yellow
Sunstreaker toy would have red triggers and red canopy hinges,
though. (The hinges are particularly odd, because the entire canopy
piece is made of clear plastic. If part of it was colored red, they
would have had to deliberately paint it that way.)
Have you ever encountered any early Transformers production material
that actually shows the red Sunstreaker (who I guess in this context
would be named Spin-Out), or has he always been yellow (with the
occasional red parts)?
> While one advantage to not being knowledgeable is living in a constant
> state of awe, after a while it gets old and I feel really behind everyone else.
Don't be so modest! You're one of the most knowledgeable fans I know.
Zob
Optim_1
>
> Takara did artwork for Bluestreak, Hound, Prowl, Trailbreaker, and
> Wheeljack as well as Hoist, Inferno, Grapple, Skids, Smokescreen, and
> Tracks. Hasbro had to do artwork to fill in the missing gaps for
> Optimus Prime, Ironhide, Jazz, Mirage, Ratchet, Sideswipe, and
> Sunstreaker as well as Red Alert (who is kind of the Autobot
> equivalent of Skywarp, who also didn't exist in the Diaclone line).
>
Takara also did artwork on Starscream and Thundercracker. In the
Microman line, Soundwave, Megatron and all the 1984 Decepticon
cassettes were Takara artwork. Hasbro modified the Megatron artwork;
the arm holding the fusion cannon is raised in the Hasbro version but
lowered in the Takara version. Takara also did a Blaster artwork that
is in the same pose as Soundwave but was apparently rejected by
Hasbro, All this is from the pictorial book, "Takara SF Land" which
has pictures of the toy as well as the box. I can scan the Diaclone
and Microman pages if anyone is interested and when I have time.
Optim_1
The Dinobots, Jumpstarters, Constructicons and the Insecticons were
also Takara artwork. Takara also did artwork for Devastator and Ultra
Magnus that was apparently rejected by Hasbro.
Onslaught Six
> The Dinobots, Jumpstarters, Constructicons and the Insecticons were
> also Takara artwork. Takara also did artwork for Devastator and Ultra
> Magnus that was apparently rejected by Hasbro.- Hide quoted text -
What's the story with Shockwave? I remember on Botch's site, there's
one listed as Shockwave (Variant) but is that Japanese? Also, close
inspection reveals that the variant clearly came second and just moved
the arm down, because the joint actually cuts in front of the shoulder.
Evil King Macrocranios
> one listed as Shockwave (Variant) but is that Japanese?
No, Laserwave's Japanese art (unlike most all others) is right facing
and on the left side of the box with a glowing gun arm:
http://blog.livedoor.jp/tottekurehee/archives/51780728.html
It's also cut off at the lower waist, eliminating what I've always
thought were horribly misproportioned legs. I think Shockwave's art is
one of the worst and I'm talking minicar level contortion combined
with irregularly scaled limbs. It's awful and I can see why the
Japanese tried salvaging it by cutting it almost in half.
> Also, close
> inspection reveals that the variant clearly came second and just moved
> the arm down, because the joint actually cuts in front of the shoulder.
I've always wanted to call shenanigans on those alternate Shockwave
boxart variations. They were never used on the Japanese or US packages
so I don't see why they get mentioned in the archive. It just confuses
things. Heck, I know where there's a version of Shockwave art with a
face instead of one eye but I don't think that should go there. He's
got two variants so far, the first being donated by Daniel Marshall
but with no further information about where it came from:
http://www.botchthecrab.com/replies.asp?index=124
http://www.botchthecrab.com/replies.asp?index=115
If that's off some obscure trading card or sticker instead of a box
that information should be included. Obviously Botch and Daniel know
the image doesn't originate from a box so it would be nice to clue in
the rest of the world on where it's really from.
The most suspicious one to me is the one currently shown at the site
as a variant. He writes that "I don't know remember where I found it."
All I can wonder is how does one of the fandom's foremost experts on
box art not know or remember where they got such a significant piece?
It had to have had some sort of background before it was manipulated
for the archive. How could Botch of all people not know the context in
which that piece originally appeared? Either that's not from a box and
doesn't belong in the archive or it's photoshopped. I call shenanigans!
Evil King Macrocranios
From what I've seen all the evidence points to that.
> (Man, the artwork for the Mini
> Autobots is bad. The way their arms and legs are so awkwardly posed,
> mostly, and the weirdly-shaped Autobot symbols with those sticky-out
> ears. Those ears drove me crazy, even as a kid.)
The minicar art is probably the most extreme example of Hasbro's style
back then. While I know they were trying to capture poses that evoke a
sense of action, a lot of the times they ended up evoking a sense of
roadkill. I remember reading a consumer reports style article about
the toy robots craze that was published in the 80s and one of the
angry moms' biggest complaints about the Transformers was that the
package art showed them in furious action poses yet the toys had very
limited poseability. Some parents were feeling ripped off. The
implication there was that the boxes were falsely advertising the toys
but it never bothered me as a kid. If you're going to bother drawing a
robot you may as well be awesome about it, otherwise it's a waste of
the medium and you may as well be using pictures. Tonka did not
understand this and the GoBots package art suffered for it.
I admire how Hasbro back then was light years ahead of other action
figure packaging. While other toylines were sticking to static
drawings or photographic representations of the toy that's already
clearly visible on the card, Hasbro was redefining packaging and what
could be done with it. With GI Joe and Transformers they were selling
more than action figures, they were selling a fantasy. I think the
angry moms didn't understand that. The closest anything else came
before were the Star Wars figures with their cropped movie screencap
package art, and even then the characters pictured were very stiff
looking and not in the most dynamic of poses most of the time. It's
not like I expected the Star Wars figures to be exact representations
of the movie still photos on their card.
> Sunstreaker's got red trigger buttons in his Hasbro instructions,
> too. I just checked the 1984 catalog and he's got 'em there, too.
There's my new thing learned for today. I never checked the trigger
buttons in those pictures!
> (The hinges are particularly odd, because the entire canopy
> piece is made of clear plastic. If part of it was colored red, they
> would have had to deliberately paint it that way.)
I think that's the strongest evidence that the prototype used for the
package art at least was a red Diaclone painted yellow. What still
confounds me to this day is why the Diakron Sunstreaker instructions
seems to depict a light colored, possibly yellow version of the toy. I
think we've discussed that here before.
> Have you ever encountered any early Transformers production material
> that actually shows the red Sunstreaker (who I guess in this context
> would be named Spin-Out), or has he always been yellow (with the
> occasional red parts)?
I've never seen an actual completely red Sunstreaker toy in any Hasbro
media but I'm hardly an authority. There is weird stuff that comes to
mind like the Sunstreaker mirror that depicts the colors the same as
the box art but with the addition of red rocket boosters alongside
Sideswipe's vehicle line art:
And Maz found some sort of promotional item with line art of a red
colored Sunstreaker in vehicle mode alongside a simplified line art
version of Sideswipe's package art:
Instead of proof of a red (or redder than what we got) Sunstreaker I
think those are honest mistakes made by colorists confusing the two
Lamborghinis. I'm certain the mirror uses stock Sunstreaker line art
derived from the '84 Hasbro Toy Fair catalog. If I'm right then the
Sunstreaker in the picture used to make that line art was most
certainly yellow. All instances of red colored Hasbro Sunstreakers
I've seen so far are most likely coloring mistakes. (Here's the part
where someone with an '84 catalog they got at a 7-Eleven in
Transylvania full of Sunstreakers in all colors of the rainbow comes
in and blows me away.)
> Don't be so modest! You're one of the most knowledgeable fans I know.
The more I learn, the more I find out there are people who already
knew for ages what I barely learned.
Evil King Macrocranios
> derived from the '84 Hasbro Toy Fair catalog.
Whoops! I meant I'm certain Maz's promotional board thingy uses stock
Sunstreaker vehicle mode line art, not the mirror. The alt mode in the
mirror isn't colored at all. This promotional vehicle mode line art
also appears uncolored in the "Color-Me" Autobots sticker set:
I'm sure if I ever found a newspaper ad featuring line art of
Sunstreaker that's the art it would use. Unfortunately Sunstreaker's
one of the few '84 Autobots that's eluded me in ads so far.
Zobovor
> I can scan the Diaclone and Microman pages if anyone is
> interested and when I have time.
I would be very much interested in seeing those, sir, when and if you
are able to find the time. Thank you!
Zob
Zobovor
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You mean Bumblebee's artwork was created by Hasbro?
>
> From what I've seen all the evidence points to that.
Now that I think about it, I think we have talked about this before.
Sorry about that. (They say the mind is the first thing to go...)
> If that's off some obscure trading card or sticker instead of a box
> that information should be included.
I know I've seen that version of Shockwave's box art (with the gun-arm
pointing down) somewhere before, but the more I think about it, the
more I think that it was Botch's archive where I first saw it. Hmm.
Zob
Optim_1
I scanned the relevant pages, but I don't know how to upload it here.
It seems that Google does not accept files on the Internet. What do I
do?
Zobovor
> I scanned the relevant pages, but I don't know how to upload it here.
> It seems that Google does not accept files on the Internet. What do I
> do?
If you want to e-mail them to me, I can upload them to my web space
and post the link. I'm at zmfts at aol dot com.
Zob
Zobovor
> If you want to e-mail them to me, I can upload them to my web space
> and post the link.
As promised, here are the scans that Optim_1 sent me. They're nice
and big, so the page may take a moment to load:
http://members.fortunecity.com/zobovor/takara_sf_land.html
You know, I've never seen that configuration for Ultra Magnus where
the trailer is sitting upside-down and the cab is parked in there like
a garage. I also never knew there was a red Mirage. (That expains
the knockoffs in that color!) I didn't know the Diaclone version of
Trailbreaker was available in black or yellow—I'd always thought he
was just blue.
Also, check out the prototype drawing of Motormaster on the last
page! Neat!
Zob
Chad Rushing
>
> As promised, here are the scans that Optim_1 sent me. They're nice
> and big, so the page may take a moment to load:
>
> http://members.fortunecity.com/zobovor/takara_sf_land.html
>
> You know, I've never seen that configuration for Ultra Magnus where
> the trailer is sitting upside-down and the cab is parked in there like
> a garage. I also never knew there was a red Mirage. (That expains
> the knockoffs in that color!) I didn't know the Diaclone version of
> Trailbreaker was available in black or yellow—I'd always thought he
> was just blue.
OK, that is one of the coolest Transformers/Diaclone spreads I have
ever seen. Thanks for posting it! And who is the helicopter/jet
triple-changer next to Blitzwing? That's the first time I have ever
seen him. And check out the freaky binoculars guy in the picture with
Blaster and Perceptor! So many potential Transformers that never
were ... I'll always be convinced that no one in the world does robots
like Japan does.
- Chad
Thunder Strikes Twice!
> And who is the helicopter/jet
> triple-changer next to Blitzwing?
I don't know his name but I had one (I think mine was a knock off). I
also have red and blue Topspin and I remember seeing the binoculars guy
here once years ago (I never bought him and alway assumed he was a KO
toy of some kind. Chances are he was but based off an old Diaclone toy
apparently). A kid I went to school with had a black Perceptor KO and
until I bought my original Perceptor (in about 87 sometime) I'd always
assumed he was black.
t.k.
Optim_1
>
> Also, check out the prototype drawing of Motormaster on the last
> page! Neat!
>
> Zob
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Unicron prototype on the same
page. I thought that was the most interesting thing on that page. It
may have given Hasbro the idea for Unicron in the 1986 movie.
Zobovor
> OK, that is one of the coolest Transformers/Diaclone spreads I have
> ever seen. Thanks for posting it! And who is the helicopter/jet
> triple-changer next to Blitzwing? That's the first time I have ever
> seen him.
I actually have a knockoff of that toy. It's pretty cool—its
helicopter mode is exactly the same size and shape as Targetmaster
Spinister, interestingly enough—but I can see why Hasbro didn't use
that one. It changes from a helicopter to a jet, which is kind of a
silly transformation for a Triple Changer to have. Basically, he
would have had a kinda-fast flying mode and a really-fast flying
mode. (I hereby decree that his unofficial Transformers name is
Switchblade, after Miles Mayhem's vehicle from M.A.S.K.)
> And check out the freaky binoculars guy in the picture with
> Blaster and Perceptor! So many potential Transformers that never
> were ... I'll always be convinced that no one in the world does robots
> like Japan does.
The binoculars and flashlight toys actually worked, or so I've read.
(Probably about as well as Perceptor, which is to say not very well at
all.) Supposedly the combination lock toy really worked, too.
Also, Optim_1 wrote:
> I'm surprised you didn't mention the Unicron prototype on the same
> page. I thought that was the most interesting thing on that page. It
> may have given Hasbro the idea for Unicron in the 1986 movie.
I've actually seen that particular picture before, so it didn't jump
out at me as a new discovery the way some of the other stuff did that
I mentioned. I think you're right, though, it's very probably the
inspiration for Unicron.
Zob
primustf
> On Nov 12, 1:55 pm, Chad Rushing <notu...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> OK, that is one of the coolest Transformers/Diaclone spreads I have
>> ever seen. Thanks for posting it! And who is the helicopter/jet
>> triple-changer next to Blitzwing? That's the first time I have ever
>> seen him.
>
> helicopter mode is exactly the same size and shape as Targetmaster
> that one. It changes from a helicopter to a jet, which is kind of a
> silly transformation for a Triple Changer to have. Basically, he
> would have had a kinda-fast flying mode and a really-fast flying
> mode. (I hereby decree that his unofficial Transformers name is
> Switchblade, after Miles Mayhem's vehicle from M.A.S.K.)
Well it would come in handy if he had to land/take off where there was
little to no run way.
>> And check out the freaky binoculars guy in the picture with
>> Blaster and Perceptor! So many potential Transformers that never
>> were ... I'll always be convinced that no one in the world does robots
>> like Japan does.
>
> The binoculars and flashlight toys actually worked, or so I've read.
> (Probably about as well as Perceptor, which is to say not very well at
> all.) Supposedly the combination lock toy really worked, too.
OK, so the blue one is a combination lock, what is the red one?
primustf
Evil King Macrocranios
It's a working key lock. There's one on ebay right now with lots of
good pictures of it and the box-item number 350141629541.
Zobovor
> OK, so the blue one is a combination lock, what is the red one?
He went by the name Magneman (MC-18) and he also turned into a
padlock. You had to unlock him with a magnetic key before you could
transform him.
Zob
Evil King Macrocranios
> Blaster and Perceptor! So many potential Transformers that never
> were ...
The binoculars did make it to the US in 85 but not as a Transformer
(and probably not even licensed). It pops up on ebay occasionally and
I found this cache of a BBTS page where they were selling one in their
knockoffs section as "Scopeman Binoculars Robot": http://tinyurl.com/yhgrn3l
I also found a newspaper ad for what is probably this same binocular
robot from October 1985: http://tinyurl.com/y89o7m5 It's from an old
store in Tampa, Florida called Toy & Gifts Outlet that I don't think
exists anymore. I'm eventually going to put this ad up at the Vintage
Space Toaster Palace but it's really low on the priorities right now
since I've got a ton of officially licensed robots ads I want to do
first.
Onslaught Six
> I also never knew there was a red Mirage. (That expains
> the knockoffs in that color!)
I've retroactively decided Red Mirage is Crasher, since the deco is
(marginally) similar to Movie Fracture, who is a Mirage repaint and
was intended to be in Universe. And be Crasher.
SteveD
>You know, I've never seen that configuration for Ultra Magnus where
>the trailer is sitting upside-down and the cab is parked in there like
>a garage.
I'm interested in the little red vehicle-thing he appears to be carrying
in his normal altmode pic.
The Unicron prototype at the extreme bottom left of the image also caught
my attention.
-SteveD
SteveD
>Zobovor wrote:
>> On Nov 12, 1:55 pm, Chad Rushing <notu...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> OK, that is one of the coolest Transformers/Diaclone spreads I have
>>> ever seen. Thanks for posting it! And who is the helicopter/jet
>>> triple-changer next to Blitzwing? That's the first time I have ever
>>> seen him.
>>
>> I actually have a knockoff of that toy. It's pretty cool�its
>> helicopter mode is exactly the same size and shape as Targetmaster
>> Spinister, interestingly enough�but I can see why Hasbro didn't use
>> that one. It changes from a helicopter to a jet, which is kind of a
>> silly transformation for a Triple Changer to have. Basically, he
>> would have had a kinda-fast flying mode and a really-fast flying
>> mode. (I hereby decree that his unofficial Transformers name is
>> Switchblade, after Miles Mayhem's vehicle from M.A.S.K.)
>
>Well it would come in handy if he had to land/take off where there was
>little to no run way.
True, although kind of a moot point for a Transformer - none of the
Decepticon jets tended to use runways, for instance.
The copter mode has the theoretical advantages that it's more manouverable
at slow speeds and can carry cargo, but again - not really a problem for
Cybertronians who use antigrav and for whom aerodynamics are only an issue
at significantly high speeds.
I did have a (toy-workable) design for a multichanger which had both
copter and jet modes (amongst others), and pretty much had to write the
backstory so that (a) the copter mode came first and (b) there were
personality issues associated with the use of the jet mode. Which promptly
became a huge barrel of apparently-plagiarised suck once Animated
Blitzwing started appearing on TV screens. Phooey.
-SteveD
Onslaught Six
> I'm interested in the little red vehicle-thing he appears to be carrying
> in his normal altmode pic.
That's Super Buggy, an upgrade of regular Buggy (Roller). The thing
with Powered Convoy is that he was intended to be an upgrade to the
regular Battle Convoy--he was the same character with a different
trailer. Though those pics show him with a blue cab (which I think was
the more common version), he was also available with the same red cab
that Battle Convoy had. Also, I believe both PC and BC came with the
same yellow pilot figure, further solidifying that he was supposed to
be the same mecha.
Super Buggy was likely not included with Ultra Magnus because Ultra
Magnus isn't an upgrade for Optimus Prime.