Milne does beyond Awesome Energon Comic art
XGrimlock2002
I Just dont like Joe NG's art for war within 2 or on Armada/Energon.
Joe NG just draws his art too catoony & non-detailed.
I really like Milne's art for Energon comic #26 & #27. the back grounds are
dark & menacing compared to Joe's sunny kiddy back grounds. I like the
detailed facial expressions Milne tries to draw in his art for TF. I also like
the way Milne draws the Energon bots/humans better. Milne is like don that
there detail freaks. IMO,
The Energon comic art hit gold when it signed Milne a few issues ago.
I have yet to be impressed with Joe NG's art. War within's volume 2 art took a
major dive when don left for G-1. Basically Joe simplified all of Don's
skecthes.to the point where robot detail was removed. Example Joe V2 page 1
Megatron looked like a grammar school copied don't art sketch. Joe's just put
too little effort as far a detail & back grounds. Joe's art reminds me of the
really bad Art Marvel TF comic G-1 series had.
A few suggestions to Joe NG/Dreamwave if there reading this thread. Joe NG
needs to put more detail into his TF robots. Like Wires,bolts,facial
expressions,display poses & weather condition bots with rust,grease.dirt & so
forth. Joe NG's back ground for TF need to change from kiddy sunny. to
dark,menacing & military battle fields. Get rid of drawing TF's cartoony. TF
fans expect to see advanced robot anime in Comics. like Don is doing.
David Willis
> took a
> major dive when don left for G-1. Basically Joe simplified all of Don's
> skecthes.to the point where robot detail was removed. Example Joe V2 page
> 1
> Megatron looked like a grammar school copied don't art sketch. Joe's
> just put
> too little effort as far a detail & back grounds. Joe's art reminds me of
> the
> really bad Art Marvel TF comic G-1 series had.
That's because Andy Wildman did the art for War Within volume 2, you goob.
--David
(And it looked great. You could tell what the fuck was going on, which is a
plus.)
www.itswalky.com
Mutate
> --David
> (And it looked great. You could tell what the fuck was going on, which is
a
> plus.)
Volume 2 as in WW: Dark Ages, right?
Dark Ages was alright, but it just didn't interest me like the first WW
series. I suppose it's probably because I didn't really care for The
Fallen. Nevermind that's a piss poor 'cool sounding' name, the story felt a
little like "Alright, I have a cool idea for a villain, now I'll revolve a
story around him, think up a bunch of scenes where he can be cool and uber,
then fill in the gaps and make a world-shaking way to beat him (but not kill
him, he's too uber to be killed!) and I'll have a story." Now, that's not a
bad idea for a villain at all, no... it seems like .....[POTENTIAL SPOILER?]
....
Dootin dootin doo doooo
Aaaaahhhh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
La la la la laaaaa
La la la la laaaaa
Looooovin' yoooooouuuuu...
....Optimus and Megatron merged into one in the teleportation, but where's
the balance? It's not like Good Prime and Evil Megatron balanced each other
out or anything, it just made an ultra nasty bastard that apparently wants a
cool name. Now, I cannot say with utter certainty that this is what made
'The Fallen' as a clear link is never made in the comic (as far as my memory
remembers) and is based solely on what seems a possibility when two
individuals go through a basic teleporter at the same time (a la The Fly),
then that Optimus and Megatron did not appear further in that series, and
finally there are a handful of design correlations that can be drawn between
'The Fallen' against Prime and Megatron. This has probably all been
verified at some point or other whether 'The Fallen' is indeed the
combination of Prime and Megatron, but it's not something *I* have read, so
keep that in mind if replying.
.:arthur
Cradok
news:jM0%c.6861$pk3....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Fallen. Nevermind that's a piss poor 'cool sounding' name, the story felt
a
> little like "Alright, I have a cool idea for a villain, now I'll revolve a
> story around him, think up a bunch of scenes where he can be cool and
uber,
> then fill in the gaps and make a world-shaking way to beat him (but not
kill
> him, he's too uber to be killed!) and I'll have a story."
More like: "You know that War Within story you're working on, Simon? Well,
if it's not too much trouble, I'd like you to try include this Fallen guy in
it. Don't worry, it won't affect your story much, I just want it to be all
about him..." ".....do I have a choice, Pat?" "No."
DirtyHeel
Joe NG didn't do Vol 2, as someone else pointed out. Though he will be doing
vol 3. I agree, though, that Ng's art is weak. My favorite DW artist so far
is James Raiz.
PS How does one pronounce the last name "Ng"? Whenever I see it, I think of
the word newsgroup :p
--
A Member of Troll Incorporated 3000
XGrimlock2002
will be doing vol 3. I agree, though, that Ng's art is weak. My favorite DW
artist so far is James Raiz."
I read somewhere on the internet. That James Raiz was doing art for Vol3 of War
Within. Was that just a rumor?
DirtyHeel
I think Raiz did one of the covers.
Mutate
> More like: "You know that War Within story you're working on, Simon? Well,
> if it's not too much trouble, I'd like you to try include this Fallen guy
in
> it. Don't worry, it won't affect your story much, I just want it to be all
> about him..." ".....do I have a choice, Pat?" "No."
That's about how it went down?
Psh, I guess that, depending on the creative control wording in the
contracts, that might be a "Screw you, you can do it yourself. I'll find
another job somewhere else." moment. The Fallen is easily one of the worst
villains I've ever seen. He's built on a Fanboyish idea, he's uber-powered,
he speaks in darkevildeathevildoom speech balloons, he couldn't possibly
look more lame-evil (even if he had some spikes all over his shoulders,
which I'm surprised aren't there), he's written to be all darkevil
mysterious and uberthreatening... he's just entirely over the top. In
trying to create a new concept, they only fell into creating the kind of
mess I'd expect to read in bad Fanfiction.
.:arthur
Doug Dlin
> PS How does one pronounce the last name "Ng"? Whenever I see it, I think of
> the word newsgroup :p
It's pronounced "Ing." And for a bonus point, "Nguyen" is pronounced
"ngwin." :-)
Doug Dlin
apcog at hotmail.com
Orson "Sidecutter" Christian
"Mutate" <Aulis...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:jM0%c.6861$pk3....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> bad idea for a villain at all, no... it seems like .....[POTENTIAL
SPOILER?]
> ....
>
> Dootin dootin doo doooo
>
> Aaaaahhhh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
>
> La la la la laaaaa
>
> La la la la laaaaa
>
> Looooovin' yoooooouuuuu...
>
>
>
> ....Optimus and Megatron merged into one in the teleportation, but where's
> the balance? It's not like Good Prime and Evil Megatron balanced each
other
> out or anything, it just made an ultra nasty bastard that apparently wants
a
> cool name. Now, I cannot say with utter certainty that this is what made
> 'The Fallen' as a clear link is never made in the comic (as far as my
memory
> remembers) and is based solely on what seems a possibility when two
> individuals go through a basic teleporter at the same time (a la The Fly),
> then that Optimus and Megatron did not appear further in that series, and
> finally there are a handful of design correlations that can be drawn
between
> 'The Fallen' against Prime and Megatron.
Just so you now know, The Fallen is not Prime and Megatron merged, though I
initially thought that was the case as well. What he is, is one of the
original 13 Transformers created by Primus. He, as it happens, is The
Fallen - the one who embraced Unicron and turned on his creator, becoming a
herald of the Dark God. He was somehow banished into a limbo long ago, and
whatever happened to Megatron and Prime when they went through the bridge (I
forget the part of the explanation that tells what this event was, whether
theur simultaneous passage was responsible or whatever), it releases The
Fallen from his limbo prison.
So The Fallen isn't a name - it's a title.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.752 / Virus Database: 503 - Release Date: 9/3/2004
Mutate
"Orson "Sidecutter" Christian"
> So The Fallen isn't a name - it's a title.
Well, that certainly does make it more palatable, and slightly less
fanboyish (since the Prime/Megatron merging isn't the case) but a
Transformers version of Lucifer is... well... infinitely better, but still
on the silly side.
.:arthur
The Wombat King
"XGrimlock2002" <xgriml...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040906121448...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> I don't want to diss/mock Joe NG but Milne & Don Figurrerra are better
artist.
> I Just dont like Joe NG's art for war within 2 or on Armada/Energon.
>
> Joe NG just draws his art too catoony & non-detailed.
And some of us like that. I'm sick of hyper detail. Besides, Ng's work
has plenty of detail in it. Take another look at Energon 26. Just enough
to make it cool without going overboard.
> A few suggestions to Joe NG/Dreamwave if there reading this thread. Joe
NG
> needs to put more detail into his TF robots. Like Wires,bolts,facial
> expressions,display poses & weather condition bots with rust,grease.dirt &
so
> forth.
A lot of that is what I hate seeing on Transformers. And God do I hate the
f**king cracks all over them. When our soldiers come home from war I'm
sure they bathe, shave, get haircuts, nurse wounds, and put on clothes that
aren't tattered. Why can't Transformers want to keep "clean" too?
Joe NG's back ground for TF need to change from kiddy sunny. to
> dark,menacing & military battle fields.
Ya know the sun does shine on battlefields too. There's a time for dark
ominous backgrounds and then there can be overkill. If the mood doesn't
need to be dark then don't make it that way.
Get rid of drawing TF's cartoony. TF
> fans expect to see advanced robot anime in Comics. like Don is doing.
Speak for yourself. Don was in my opinion a great artist, but now his TFs
are just looking fat. Not to mention I hate the fat flat fingers.
Dreamwave must make the artist adhere to certain things when drawing. Fat
fingers being one of them.
I like detail, but at times there is too much. Then again maybe it's
because I draw TFs like the 80s cartoon models.
WK
I don't think any of the artist have really got a decent looking human on
paper yet. Well, except Guido Guidi. I like his humans, and the rest of his
art.
Ethan Hammond
>
> That's because Andy Wildman did the art for War Within volume 2, you goob.
>
> --David
> (And it looked great. You could tell what the fuck was going on, which is
a
> plus.)
Andy is as good as anyone at DW besides Don who is the master, too bad they
screwed his art over with that bad inking, especially in the first 3(?)
issues. Once
they fixed the inking issue his art looked as good as it did when he drew
G1. His
G1 work has a special place in my heart because when I first saw it I was
blown
away.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Ethan Hammond
> contracts, that might be a "Screw you, you can do it yourself. I'll find
> another job somewhere else." moment. The Fallen is easily one of the
worst
> villains I've ever seen. He's built on a Fanboyish idea, he's
uber-powered,
> he speaks in darkevildeathevildoom speech balloons, he couldn't possibly
> look more lame-evil (even if he had some spikes all over his shoulders,
> which I'm surprised aren't there), he's written to be all darkevil
> mysterious and uberthreatening... he's just entirely over the top. In
> trying to create a new concept, they only fell into creating the kind of
> mess I'd expect to read in bad Fanfiction.
Yep the stuff with the falled really dragged DA down which is a shame
because the rest of it was really good.
Ethan Hammond
He is and Pat Lee is doing some of the covers, what joy!!!!
Denyer
> if it's not too much trouble, I'd like you to try include this Fallen guy in
> it. Don't worry, it won't affect your story much, I just want it to be all
> about him..." ".....do I have a choice, Pat?" "No."
I've a feeling the Fallen bit came partly from James, given the way it
writes into their MTMTE series.
Wildman's art on TWW2 is pretty bonza, but I'd like it a lot more if
the inking provided by Dreamwave wasn't shit -- the guy got really
stiffed by them.
Denyer.
William Rendfeld
More a Transformers version of Judas. Unicron already fills the
Lucifer role quite nicely.
Hotmissile
fray!
>
> More like: "You know that War Within story you're working on, Simon? Well,
> if it's not too much trouble, I'd like you to try include this Fallen guy in
> it. Don't worry, it won't affect your story much, I just want it to be all
> about him..." ".....do I have a choice, Pat?" "No."
I wonder about this, actually. Has it ever been specifically
stated that the Fallen was Pat Lee's infamous "Top Secret
Ttransformer" (and if so, where), or is this just a case of people
putting 2 + 2 together?
I ask, because there's a picture of said "Top Secret Transformer"
in the G1 / Armada preview, and it looks fairly nothing like old Mr.
Fallen.
While we're on the subject, whose head is that on the gatefold
cover of TWW2#1?
Mic // Hotmissile
Soundwave says "Put the needle on the record."
XGrimlock2002
G-1 Had Deaths Head the bounty hunter.
Marvel TF G-2 had Jhiaxus,vok & Swarm.
War within 2 had "The fallen"
If anyone hates these characters blame Simon Furman.
GEEZ with the TF universe had thousands+ TF toys as characters. it's kinda sad
there needs to be non-toy characters made up.
I also thought at first the fallen was Prime & megs merged. then I thought the
fallen looked like Energon Wingsaber.
Last I thought the fallen was MW Starscream based on the dead design.
In the end it was a 100% made up character. that probably shared design art
patterns of various toy related Transformers.
Kokampf
> So The Fallen isn't a name - it's a title.
Presumably his real name (and indeed all knowledge of him) has been
cursed and stricken from the historical record after he was banished
together with his master.
The part I have a problem with is that Bugly, Bludgeon and Mindwipe of
all people don't manage to work out for themselves who this enormously
mythologically important character is and roughly what he is using
them for.
Cradok
news:170sj016v39q55ajs...@4ax.com...
> Using the Matrix's power as a stepping stone... Cradok enters the
> fray!
> >
> > More like: "You know that War Within story you're working on, Simon?
Well,
> > if it's not too much trouble, I'd like you to try include this Fallen
guy in
> > it. Don't worry, it won't affect your story much, I just want it to be
all
> > about him..." ".....do I have a choice, Pat?" "No."
>
> I wonder about this, actually. Has it ever been specifically
> stated that the Fallen was Pat Lee's infamous "Top Secret
> Ttransformer" (and if so, where), or is this just a case of people
> putting 2 + 2 together?
I'm fair sure that it was mentioned around the time that TDA was announced
that The Fallen was Lee's TF, but I may be wrong, and I'm kinda lazy....
Besides, the whole thing was probably worked on by Lee, Simon and by
James/Brad together, so we can blame them all equally.
M Sipher
news:F5udnXD8pbt...@texas.net...
> On Sep. 6, 2004, DirtyHeel wrote:
>
> > PS How does one pronounce the last name "Ng"? Whenever I see it, I think
of
> > the word newsgroup :p
>
> It's pronounced "Ing."
There was a guy in one of my high school classes named Joe Ng, but it was
pronounced "Nong".
M "Or 'Joe Novowel', He Said Was Also Acceptable" Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions
Home of the productions of King Weasel!
Original stuff, Transformers, MegaMan/RockMan and more crap!
http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/simak/109/
Grebo
even occupy the #2 position, right under Don Figueroa, among all the
Dreamwave artists in terms of skill.
Grebo!
ShadowWing
"Kokampf" wrote
>
> The part I have a problem with is that Bugly, Bludgeon and Mindwipe of
> all people don't manage to work out for themselves who this enormously
> mythologically important character is and roughly what he is using
> them for.
That's because they don't care. They're looking for power via what
passes for mysticism on Cybertron, and the Fallen is offering exactly that.
--
/\ /\
/ \ ()/ \
/ /\ o[]o/\ \
/ --o-[]-o-- \
updated before I die: / / / 00 \ \ \
The Transformation Zone 00
http://pages.cthome.net/ShadowWing^^
Grebo
and Pat Lee. Simon says he came up with the idea for the Fallen, and
Pat Lee did the visual design.
I agree that The Fallen was a pretty unwelcome device. The story would
have been much better without him. (And yes, I too thought at first
that The Fallen was a fusion of Prime and Megs. And also yes, I too
dislike the name, whether or not its a title. Its unoriginal *and*
non-Transformery.)
My mind continues to boggle at people who sing Wildman's praises. The
guy's drawings look amateurish compared to Don, Alex Milne, and yes,
even Pat Lee. Dreamwave's inking and coloring didn't ruin his work, it
saved it.
I do understand, however, that Wildman is pretty good at storyboarding
-- at telling a story visually, which is what comics are all about.
He's just not a very good illustrator. He sure is a better
storyboarder than Pat Lee or whatsisface who's doing Micromasters.
(That guy needs a lot of work on his storyboarding.)
However, being able to do good storyboards is not the same as being
able to draw well. Wildman's art is short on detail and his characters
all look very stiff. Now, if we could combine the visual storytelling
skill of Wildman with the detail-heavy illustration skill of Pat Lee,
THEN we'd have a great TF artist!
Rant mode ON:
Dreamwave's artists generally come from the same stock as typical
Image artists: they learned to draw by looking at comic books. This
means they don't really do a good job of drawing things as they
actually look. A few fine art classes would do a world of good for Pat
Lee and Rob Liefield alike. Short of that, every comic book artist
should be *required* to read "Understand Comics" by Scott McCloud.
Rant mode OFF.
Now, here's a fun little exercise: If we were going to try and come up
with The Fallen's original "name", what would it be? My vote would be
"Exterminans."
Grebo!
xgriml...@aol.com (XGrimlock2002) wrote in message news:<20040907151539...@mb-m23.aol.com>...
Aaron F. Bourque
>Now, here's a fun little exercise: If we were going to try and
>come up with The Fallen's original "name", what would it be?
>My vote would be "Exterminans."
Either Lucifactor, or Star Saber.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
God saves and man sins
But the tragedy comes when
He does both of them
Ethan Hammond
>
> Rant mode ON:
> Dreamwave's artists generally come from the same stock as typical
> Image artists: they learned to draw by looking at comic books. This
> means they don't really do a good job of drawing things as they
> actually look. A few fine art classes would do a world of good for Pat
> Lee and Rob Liefield alike. Short of that, every comic book artist
> should be *required* to read "Understand Comics" by Scott McCloud.
> Rant mode OFF.
Well I think DW started off as part of Image and then they split away.
They got the TF license right after they split away.
Ka Faraq Gatri
>However, being able to do good storyboards is not the same as being
>able to draw well. Wildman's art is short on detail and his characters
>all look very stiff. Now, if we could combine the visual storytelling
>skill of Wildman with the detail-heavy illustration skill of Pat Lee,
>THEN we'd have a great TF artist!
Uhh, no. Pat's "detail-heavy illustration skill" goes hand in hand
with his inconsistent rendering of characters. He puts in so much
detail that he forgets where he put it all, so a character rarely
looks the same way twice. Unless he does a cut & paste, that is.
But then I'm of the "more-isn't-necessarily-better" philosophy. I
think Pat's work looks cluttered at best, and usually just plain ugly.
I'd much prefer he tried for less, but more consistant, details.
He also needs to learn proportion and how to draw facial
expressions other than "dull suprise". Most of all, he needs to learn
to use a model sheet. This is not only true for Transformers (where he
produces the worst Optimus Prime I've ever seen) to his guest issue of
Superman/Batman where he made Robin & Superboy almost identical
facially (when the "lighting" washed out where the mask would be, I
couldn't tell them apart), and got costume details consistantly wrong.
>
>Rant mode ON:
>Dreamwave's artists generally come from the same stock as typical
>Image artists: they learned to draw by looking at comic books. This
>means they don't really do a good job of drawing things as they
>actually look. A few fine art classes would do a world of good for Pat
>Lee and Rob Liefield alike. Short of that, every comic book artist
>should be *required* to read "Understand Comics" by Scott McCloud.
>Rant mode OFF.
For visual storytelling, they should be forced to study the works of
George Perez, and Alan Davis. Especially Perez. He uses a massive
amount of detailing, but manages to keep it consistent, is almost
always on-model (look at JLA/Avengers!), and you can always tell wha's
going on. The three areas in which Lee consistently fails, IMO.
Dave Connell aka Ka Faraq Gatri
kfg...@rcn.com
"Any day we create this much shrapnel
is a good one." - Jamie Hyneman, "Mythbusters"
Hotmissile
fray!
>
> "Hotmissile" <???@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:170sj016v39q55ajs...@4ax.com...
> > Using the Matrix's power as a stepping stone... Cradok enters the
> > fray!
> > >
> > > More like: "You know that War Within story you're working on, Simon? Well,
> > > if it's not too much trouble, I'd like you to try include this Fallen guy in
> > > it. Don't worry, it won't affect your story much, I just want it to be all
> > > about him..." ".....do I have a choice, Pat?" "No."
> >
> > I wonder about this, actually. Has it ever been specifically
> > stated that the Fallen was Pat Lee's infamous "Top Secret
> > Ttransformer" (and if so, where), or is this just a case of people
> > putting 2 + 2 together?
>
> I'm fair sure that it was mentioned around the time that TDA was announced
> that The Fallen was Lee's TF, but I may be wrong, and I'm kinda lazy....
I think that description equally well applies to me :) . But it
sounds from Grebo's post that we do now have an answer to this
question, and yes, we can blame them both.
Mic // Hotmissile
hotmissile_lives is the answer.
Soundwave says "Greed is a weapon of mass destruction."
Hotmissile
>
> My mind continues to boggle at people who sing Wildman's praises. The
> guy's drawings look amateurish compared to Don, Alex Milne, and yes,
> even Pat Lee. Dreamwave's inking and coloring didn't ruin his work, it
> saved it.
I know you've expressed your dissatisfaction with Andy Wildman's
art on many an ocassion, but do these images change your opinion of
his work at all: http://www.wildfur.net/shop_specials.html ? I
personally think they look much better than the inked versions.
> I do understand, however, that Wildman is pretty good at storyboarding
> -- at telling a story visually, which is what comics are all about.
> He's just not a very good illustrator. He sure is a better
> storyboarder than Pat Lee or whatsisface who's doing Micromasters.
> (That guy needs a lot of work on his storyboarding.)
Rob Ruffalo needs a lot of work on everything.
> Now, here's a fun little exercise: If we were going to try and come up
> with The Fallen's original "name", what would it be? My vote would be
> "Exterminans."
Now, hands up if you've forgotten to include the Fallen in your
giant name list thing... doh. But more to the point...
Did Furman say at one point that the Fallen *doesn't* actually
have anything to do with the Covenant? I kinda have a vague memory of
him saying something like that, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I'm
going to assume that he does for the hell of it.
Now, the rest of the Covenant had fantastically unimaginative
names (clearly Primus got better as he went on), based on the signs of
the Zodiac. And every so often people pop up with a thirteenth sign of
the Zodiac, which fits quite well with the Fallen being the thirteenth
member of the Covenant. I did a quick Google (and stopped promptly
because all the idiotic talk about astrology was making my brain cry)
and found that the constellations that have been suggested are:
Arachne the Spider;
Cetus the Whale; and
Ophiuchus the Serpent Slayer / Bearer.
Ophiuchus is the most recent / infamous option, but he has the
disadvantage that he's meant to represent a healer. (Or maybe that
would be in ironic advantage? "I come to cleanse the stain of life
from this world.")
Arachne: Well, we've already got Blackarachnia, and Arachne's
female anyway.
So that leaves Cetus. Apparently has relatively low surface
brightness: it's a dark constellation! Excellent. And "the Babylonians
referred to this area of the sky as the chaos of the deep". But it's
not easy to convert it into a good name (I see why Furman went the
route he did for the Covenant)... Cetane? Ketone? Ketosis? Omicron
Ceti? Too hard for me.
Cetonicusibus it is then.
Mic // Hotmissile
hotmissile_lives is the answer.
Soundwave says "Misinformation is a weapon of mass destruction."
ShadowWing
"Hotmissile" wrote
>
> I know you've expressed your dissatisfaction with Andy Wildman's
> art on many an ocassion, but do these images change your opinion of
> his work at all: http://www.wildfur.net/shop_specials.html ? I
> personally think they look much better than the inked versions.
I personally can say he's drawing them better now that he's actually
drawing robots rather than people in robot suits. I still wouldn't call him
the best Transformers artist ever, unlike others.
Mutate
> Ophiuchus is the most recent / infamous option, but he has the
> disadvantage that he's meant to represent a healer. (Or maybe that
> would be in ironic advantage? "I come to cleanse the stain of life
> from this world.")
Or it's like... Bringing Balance to The Force. Keep your fingers crossed
that this all doesn't end up being a notorious literary device....
> Arachne: Well, we've already got Blackarachnia, and Arachne's
> female anyway.
Arachne/Blackarachnia would be cool, but clearly not the Fallen. Or.. is it
.. clear at all? Was it ever said that the 13th was The Fallen? What if he
was like... number 5, and then defected to Unicron?
> So that leaves Cetus. Apparently has relatively low surface
> brightness: it's a dark constellation! Excellent. And "the Babylonians
> referred to this area of the sky as the chaos of the deep". But it's
> not easy to convert it into a good name (I see why Furman went the
> route he did for the Covenant)... Cetane? Ketone? Ketosis? Omicron
> Ceti? Too hard for me.
Citanes 26!
> Cetonicusibus it is then.
Damn!
.:arthur
Mark Brown
*SNIP*
> Now, the rest of the Covenant had fantastically unimaginative
> names (clearly Primus got better as he went on), based on the signs of
> the Zodiac. And every so often people pop up with a thirteenth sign of
> the Zodiac, which fits quite well with the Fallen being the thirteenth
> member of the Covenant. I did a quick Google (and stopped promptly
> because all the idiotic talk about astrology was making my brain cry)
> and found that the constellations that have been suggested are:
> Arachne the Spider;
> Cetus the Whale; and
> Ophiuchus the Serpent Slayer / Bearer.
>
> Ophiuchus is the most recent / infamous option, but he has the
> disadvantage that he's meant to represent a healer. (Or maybe that
> would be in ironic advantage? "I come to cleanse the stain of life
> from this world.")
The snake is also usually marginalized as "Evil" in most "sky-god" religions
(who gained legitimacy by stomping out any vestiges of the snake-associated
"earth-god" religions): the Gorgon, Apophis, the wyrm, the Serpent in Eden.
. .
Plus the snake represents hidden or forgotten knowledge (the legacy of that
precurser cult), corresponding to how the Fallen "powered up" Bugly,
Mindwipe, and Bludgeon. It's also a cthonic (sub-terrannean) presence
(again, the Earth cult), reflecting where the Fallen did most of his work
(deep inside Cybertron, where Primus could be found).
Mark
"Why does it have to be snakes?" --Indiana Jones