OT?: Two men arrested for selling kitbash online
Travoltron
TigerMegatron
> http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-01-19/2-arrested-for-se...
To be quite honest these customs/kitbashes are un-safe because the
guys doing them using hobby paints & modify the parts to make them un-
safe
Kishin
> http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-01-19/2-arrested-for-selling-modified-kamen-rider-figure
Man, copyright holders are really getting out of hand. This is
ridiculous, IMO.
--
Kishin
Kishin
> On Jan 20, 1:57 pm, Travoltron<travolt...@defender.uni> wrote:
>> http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-01-19/2-arrested-for-se...
>
> To be quite honest these customs/kitbashes are un-safe because the
> safe
Then painted model kits are also unsafe? I have a lot of those.
--
Kishin
Chad Rushing
character, not the -toy- company (Bandai?) that produced the figure
modified, that filed the criminal charges. It would be like
Lucasfilm, not Hasbro, going after someone selling kitbashes of
various STAR WARS characters.
Although I loved their work on G1 Transformers, the DRAGON BALL stuff,
and many other anime series, I have read that Toei really has a
reputation for being a jerk as far as companies go. This article
confirms that rumor. I have to wonder if they go after authors/
artists of unlicensed, amateur manga (doujinshi) featuring their
characters, too, even though the practice is widely accepted as not
being criminal there in Japan.
- Chad
TigerMegatron
it's okay to use hobby paints & customize parts on liscensed toys or
model kits as long a you don't sell them to anyone. Selling these
things are un-safe to others because they pose serious hazards like
chipping paint get swallowed by kids or adults. modified parts could
be sharp enough to cause serious damage to the human body. once a toy
has been modified/kitbashed it no longer is safe nor approved by the
strict toy laws set in place that liscensed companies must obey.
TigerMegatron
Chad,I think it's just japan's reisdents/companies that are jerks.
things in japan work differently than they do in the rest of the
world. Over at the Allspark it was revealed that animated companies/
networks in japan call the shots & tell the toy companies what to do &
what to make. these japanese animation/network studios own all the
patent rights to the toys they ask toy companies to make for them.
EXAMPLE: The animation studio/network who did the various different
cartoon series for brave from 1990 thru 1997 approached takara & had
them create Brave toys. once that agreement was done. the animation
studio/netork owned all the likeness to all the brave characters that
appeared in the cartoon. I think Takara & the animation studio/netork
still have the contract valid & that's why takara was allowed to
create the 2 brave MP toys of king exkaiser & dragon kizer. When
Takara & tomy merged the contract for brave became void.
that's why a few years later the animation studio/nnetwork was allowed
to have another toy company do that GoGoaGair Masterpiece styled
toys.
From what I understand Takara still owns the master molds & equipment
for all those brave toy molds they made in 1990 thru 1997. but they
can't release them offically due to the animation studio/network not
allowing it,putting a legal road block & so forth. At the same turn
of the coin,the animation studio/network can't ask for the master
molds & equipment from takara because these things belong to takara.
the animation studio/network is still allowed to create newly styled
versions of any 1990's brave toys they please,all they have to do is
ask another toy company to make the toys. Sadly takara can't re-issue
nor make newer molds based off the likeness of the 1990's brave toys.
SO yeah japanese laws suck big time.
Shin Hibiki
Copyright in Japan is messed up. They can prevent you from
selling used video games.
- Shin Hibiki
Zobovor
> It would be like Lucasfilm, not Hasbro, going after someone selling
> kitbashes of various STAR WARS characters.
Well, Hasbro's just licensing the likenesses of the Star Wars
characters from Lucasfilm. They wouldn't really have any vested
interest in going after potential copyright violators since it's not
their intellectual property to start with.
I think I can see both sides of the issue on this one. On the one
hand, as a fan and a citizen, this sort of behavior seems petty to
me. At the same time, though, companies are required to some degree
to defend their intellectual property or risk losing the rights to
it. Coca-Cola's legal department scours publications looking for
instances of the word "coke," with a lower-case "c," being used as a
synonym for "soda" so they can contact the publisher and insist that
Coke is a proper noun and is to be used as such. If they don't, Coke
as a brand name will cease to exist and the word will fall into common
parlance, joining the ranks of common words like "escalator" and
"saxophone" and "zipper," because someone failed to defend their
trademark.
Remember when Hasbro shut down that kid's web site called
dinobot.org? It arguably didn't draw attention away from Hasbro's
products in any way (it wasn't even a Transformers-related site), but
if Hasbro wants to retain the rights to their trademarks, they are
legally obligated to some degree to take action when they become aware
of infringements. To do nothing repeatedly would weaken their claim
on the trademark and eventually cause them to lose it.
I know we're talking about copyright ownership, not trademarks, but
the concepts are similar. Regarding Toei, specifically—to me it just
looks like they're being jerks, maybe kicking themselves that they
could have sold an action figure of that character for $3000
themselves. There could be mitigating circumstances, though. Did the
guys who made the kitbash have a history of violating Toei
copyrights? Had Toei previously sent them a cease and desist order at
some point, or did they just up and arrest these guys out of the
blue? Did their online auction describe the item as "Utopia Dophant
from Kamen Rider Z" or "an unofficial kitbash inspired by Utopia
Dophant from Kamen Rider Z"? Legally, there's a subtle but distinct
difference. Derivative works aren't illegal in and of themselves, as
long as they're sufficiently different from the original (the word the
courts use is "transformative," appropriately enough) though I suppose
in Japan the laws might be different.
Zob
Kishin
> On Jan 20, 4:00 pm, Kishin<n...@yobiz.ness> wrote:
>> TigerMegatron wrote:
>>> On Jan 20, 1:57 pm, Travoltron<travolt...@defender.uni> wrote:
>>>> http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-01-19/2-arrested-for-se...
>>
>>> To be quite honest these customs/kitbashes are un-safe because the
>>> guys doing them using hobby paints& modify the parts to make them un-
>>> safe
>>
>> Then painted model kits are also unsafe? I have a lot of those.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Kishin
>
> model kits as long a you don't sell them to anyone. Selling these
> things are un-safe to others because they pose serious hazards like
> chipping paint get swallowed by kids or adults. modified parts could
> be sharp enough to cause serious damage to the human body. once a toy
> has been modified/kitbashed it no longer is safe nor approved by the
> strict toy laws set in place that liscensed companies must obey.
The toy laws are intended to protect young children. I would think that
only adult collectors would buy these kitbashes, and if they go around
gnawing on them, and ingesting their paint, they deserve what they get.
All these third party toys that we've been seeing are exempt from the
safety laws, as they are sold to adult collectors. The same thing goes
for things like the Toynami Robotech toys. I don't see how kitbashes
would be any more dangerous than these.
--
Kishin
Scott
good and need to become more rigorous. Actually i felt that Buster Optimus
Prime's flip out blades are dangerous and have not let my nephew play with
them.
Uriel Ventris
> http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-01-19/2-arrested-for-se...
This is a Japanese thing, right? So, Fansproject and the guys who made
HoS Prime would be criminals in Japan.
Travoltron
> On Jan 20, 11:57 pm, Travoltron<travolt...@defender.uni> wrote:
>> http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-01-19/2-arrested-for-se...
>
> This is a Japanese thing, right?
Yes, though I'm paranoid it might set some sort of worldwide precedent.
Like Chad brought up, in the past Japanese companies had been rather
tolerant of dojinshi and garage kits, so this development is disturbing.
> So, Fansproject and the guys who made
> HoS Prime would be criminals in Japan.
So it would seem, although I think in their case they seem to go out of
their way not to use trademarked names on their packaging.
I view this rise of 3rd party toys due to Hasbro/Tomy dropping the ball
on several projects; they're trying to fill voids that the fans feel.
Every time Hasbro/Takara makes a (neo-G1) Optimus Prime sans trailer for
example, they're creating a "void".
In this case I don't know much about Kamen Rider, but I suspect it's due
to the stupid belief of companies over there that villains don't sell.
They may have neglected to make a toy of this guy and thus created a "void".
Autobus Prime
> I think I can see both sides of the issue on this one.
Zob:
Well, I can't. I am damned sick of these companies and their
cultural feudalism, Honestly, I don't think you should try to
see things Toei's way, here, not when they've apparently
got the police to enforce their divine right to profit.
Don't give a corporation your blanket, when they've got
a warm government to snuggle up to.
If this sort of nonsense was extended to every sort of
consumer good, we wouldn't be able to sell used
cars. We wouldn't be able to sell our old jeans at a thrift store.
Commerce would lose all its meaning, because the
upstream producer would be able to dictate to the consumer.
The only property you could truly call private would be
something you made from raw materials.
Cultural feudalism...or maybe a cultural enclosure movement.
Cordially yours:
Autobus Prime
w/minicon Farebox.
TigerMegatron
it's my understanding that these japanese animation companies &
japanese toy companies can't be talk to & are very mean. the only ones
who suffer are the fans. example Robotech macross.
Scott
rights in America.
http://www.japanator.com/de-culture-a-beginner-s-guide-to-the-macross-metaverse-12324.phtml
Autobus Prime's writing style sure seems like a certain ATT poster and ties
in with my hypothesis that ATT posters are all just aspects of Tigger's
mind.
Kishin
> Autobus Prime's writing style sure seems like a certain ATT poster and ties
> in with my hypothesis that ATT posters are all just aspects of Tigger's
Ha! Deathy has posted under numerous handles, but I'm pretty sure
Autobus Prime isn't one of them. His spelling and grammar are way too
good, for one thing.
--
Kishin (not a Deathy sock puppet)
Chad Rushing
>
> Ha! Deathy has posted under numerous handles, but I'm pretty sure
> Autobus Prime isn't one of them. His spelling and grammar are way too
> good, for one thing.
I'm fairly certain that Autobus Prime is a different guy, too. He has
been on ATT for years, although he has been mostly absent or lurking
for a while now according to Google Groups' statistics.
- Chad
TigerMegatron
wrote:
> Harmony Gold, a non-Japanese company is the one tying up the Robotech
> rights in America.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scott,please fuck off & leave ATT. your nothing but a good for nothing
troll flame baiter. you say your in your middle 30's but you present
yourself & act like your either under 14 years of age or just plain
naieve or simply retarted.
SteveD
<autobu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 20, 9:13�pm, Zobovor <zm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> I think I can see both sides of the issue on this one. �
>
>Zob:
>
>Well, I can't. I am damned sick of these companies and their
>cultural feudalism, Honestly, I don't think you should try to
>see things Toei's way, here, not when they've apparently
>got the police to enforce their divine right to profit.
I don't see any problem with companies enforcing their copyright to
various properties. On the other hand, this particular example seems to be
a little over the top - the buyer was effectively buying the creative
talents of the creator, and it's not as if the product being sold was
directly comparable to anything the parent company was putting out. Not to
mention that the creator wasn't marketing it as a Toei-produced item.
Perhaps the enforcement laws are different in Japan, and allowing this
kind of once-off reproduction (generally overlookable in the US and other
countries) has led in the past to loss of copyright in the Japanese legal
system, similar to how Kleenex and Xerox lost the rights to their names?
Without knowing the history, I can't really say whether Toei is being a
dick here, or whether they really do have to prosecute such stuff in order
to retain their own rights.
As a side note, though, wouldn't it make more sense for Toei to hire the
creator to make really super-expensive low-production-run figures (maybe
customising each figure to make it slightly different)? Profit and happy
consumers all around, surely...
-SteveD
Kishin
> Perhaps the enforcement laws are different in Japan, and allowing this
> kind of once-off reproduction (generally overlookable in the US and other
> countries) has led in the past to loss of copyright in the Japanese legal
> system, similar to how Kleenex and Xerox lost the rights to their names?
Xerox and Kleenex did not lose the rights to their names. From Wikipedia:
Other trademarks have come close to genericization, but have been
rescued by aggressive corrective campaigns. Such is the case with Xerox
for photocopiers, Plexiglass for shatter-resistant polymer glass,
Kleenex for facial tissues, and others. A trademark owner takes a risk
in engaging in such a corrective campaign because the campaign may serve
as an admission that the trademark is generic.[citation needed] So, the
owner must irreversibly commit to continuing the campaign until
relatively sure the trademark has achieved primary meaning as a
trademark rather than as a common name of the product or service.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark
--
Kishin
Kishin
I love his sig: Autobus Prime, with minicon Farebox.
Genius!
--
Kishin
Kishin
>>> who suffer are the fans. example Robotech macross.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> troll flame baiter. you say your in your middle 30's but you present
> naieve or simply retarted.
Oh shit, Deathy is on another crusade. It's just like Kittie Rose all
over again.
For the record, not everyone agrees with Deathy's assessment.
--
Kishin
No One in Particular
"Kishin" <no...@yobiz.ness> wrote in message
news:iho3ne$jdu$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
We're all Deathy's sock puppets. You, me Scott-all of us. Some if us just
refuse to face the truth: in real life, we don't exist. ;-)
Brian. I am not a number!
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Kishin
LOL!
--
Kishin (not number one)
Scott
...Also Known As Thunder
Er...I thought you were "26".
t.k.
No One in Particular
"...Also Known As Thunder" <dece...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:LM81p.737$qj7...@newsfe02.iad...
NO! I am not any number!!!
*looks at swipe card from work*
I stand corrected. I guess I am a number after all...