[RiD] BIG news (Not concerning *Maximus)...
Citizen V
http://www.eyrie.org/~dvandom/BW/sightings.html
that Black Convoy/Scourge will be getting his electronics put back in.
Also, look carefully at this picture from amazon.com...
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005NCH6.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
What do you see?
Holy mother god...
If they're putting Con symbols on the RiD Combatrons, then they basically
HAVE to remold Scourge's discs...and if they do, then Hasbro Cares.
Up yours, Takara RULZ-ers!
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, thanks to Paul Segal for
sending me this...
Baron...@Yahoo.ca
-Visit Zemo's Transformers Museum!-
http://ramaxela.topcities.com/
ShadowWing
Citizen V wrote
>Also, look carefully at this picture from amazon.com...
>
>http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005NCH6.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
>What do you see?
Spots? No?
>If they're putting Con symbols on the RiD Combatrons, then they basically
>HAVE to remold Scourge's discs...and if they do, then Hasbro Cares.
But in the cartoon, they'll have the altered G2 Autobot Symbol. Or are
they going to digitally add things like Funimation does for the Toonami
Dragonball airings?
______________________________________________
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Citizen V
>Citizen V wrote
>>Also, look carefully at this picture from amazon.com...
>>http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005NCH6.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>>What do you see?
>>If they're putting Con symbols on the RiD Combatrons, then they basically
>>HAVE to remold Scourge's discs...and if they do, then Hasbro Cares.
> But in the cartoon, they'll have the altered G2 Autobot Symbol. Or are
>they going to digitally add things like Funimation does for the Toonami
>Dragonball airings?
Apparently you never see the Anti-Cybertron symbol clearly... so they may
not have to do anything at all...
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, HASBRO RULZ!!!~~
Citizen V
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005N7ZT.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005N7ZR.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, HASBRO RULZ!!!~~~
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Also, look carefully at this picture from amazon.com...
>
>http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005NCH6.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
>What do you see?
>
>Holy mother god...
>
>
>
>If they're putting Con symbols on the RiD Combatrons, then they basically
>HAVE to remold Scourge's discs...and if they do, then Hasbro Cares.
Oh yeah, putting Decepticon symbols (that rather clash, IMO, I'd rather
they just kept with the Combatron insignia) on a couple of toys
really makes up for all of the other crap they've done over the past
couple years, and shows that they really care.
(Doing RID at all made up for alot of that crap as far as I'm concerned,
but changing faction symobols and faction names doesn't quite do it for
me)
>
>Up yours, Takara RULZ-ers!
Care to say that again? As happy as I am about the US getting RID, the
original CR still has many advantages over it. Autobot and Decepticon
symbols and a light-up sword + headlights do not make up for a lack of box
art, juvenile mottos, no tech specs for every character, no catalog
or battle scene art, stupid mold changes, stupid names and name re-uses,
and no God Fire Sword or Brave Max (unless that changes).
Jordan Derber, Uber-Otaku
aka H-K
aka Buster Darkwings, Evil Destron Fairy
Subtitler and Co-Organizer of the Japanese TF episode fansubbing project
Donations needed for the project! Fund raiser sale at:
http://members.nbci.com/hantaakiraa/pt/fansub.html
superspy
neurons, and then said <9mbihm$3io$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>:
>>If they're putting Con symbols on the RiD Combatrons, then they
>>basically HAVE to remold Scourge's discs...and if they do, then Hasbro
>>Cares.
>
>Oh yeah, putting Decepticon symbols (that rather clash, IMO, I'd rather
>they just kept with the Combatron insignia) on a couple of toys
>really makes up for all of the other crap they've done over the past
>couple years, and shows that they really care.
I'm willing to bet that Hasbro cares just as much as Takara, except that
the former just isn't as good as hiding the "money-grubbing" part.
>(Doing RID at all made up for alot of that crap as far as I'm
>concerned, but changing faction symobols and faction names doesn't
>quite do it for me)
What crap? (Aside from most of the Fuzors) /:)
>
>>
>>Up yours, Takara RULZ-ers!
>
>Care to say that again? As happy as I am about the US getting RID, the
>original CR still has many advantages over it. Autobot and Decepticon
>symbols and a light-up sword + headlights do not make up for a lack of
>box
....Like? I'm being fairly serious here. I've never seen the Japanese
version past the first episode.
>art, juvenile mottos, no tech specs for every character, no catalog
>or battle scene art, stupid mold changes, stupid names and name
>re-uses, and no God Fire Sword or Brave Max (unless that changes).
Opinions presented as facts, by ATT's own, wonderful
Jordan Derber, Uber-Otaku
Hooper X
>Autobot and Decepticon
>>symbols and a light-up sword + headlights do not make up for a lack of
>>box art,
For who? The two-and-three packs? I like the photoshopped pictures just fine,
really. You don't NEED to polish these toys like you did G1.
juvenile mottos,
*ahem.* "Want to race?" "I jam on the Decepticons like I jam on my guitar!"
"GET OUT OF MY WAY!"
Those are NOTHING new.
> no tech specs for every character,
Oh no! Now I'll never know what Hot Shot's function is! Oh, wait, I can
READILY find translated versions of the Japanese!
> no catalog or battle scene art,
Haven't had THIS since... the end of G1? Catalogs? They just don't DO that
stateside anymore. At least, not a DEDICATED TF catalog.
>stupid mold changes,
Like... altering colors. Oooh. And fixing Optimus Prime so all his missiles
don't fire at once, making them INFINITELY harder to lose. That's one mold
change I'm GLAD for.
>stupid names and name re-uses,
I won't believe Mega-Octane, et. al., until I see 'em. So far, there aren't
any real outright stinkers, IMHO. WARS is kinda lame, but shit, the Japanese
WROTE IT ON THE MOTHERFUCKER, so what do you want? Sideburn, I don't mind. He
has flames on his side. They're burning. Side. Burn. Get. Over. It.
> and no God Fire Sword or Brave Max (unless that changes).
OH MY GOD. Two of the biggest fucking MacGuffins the fanbase has EVER had.
Fucking God Master Sword. And a fucking Fort Max reissue.
What is the holy fucking deal about the damn sword? Honestly, tell me. I got
to see Thylacine 2000's at BotCon this year, and it's NOT THAT COOL. IT'S A
BIG POINTY HUNK OF (at least to me, it looked) FLIMSY PLASTIC. I'd rather give
my Omega Prime a rusty screwdriver. THAT's menacing.
And Brave Max? Well, if the HUR HUR HASBRO LUVS FANS rumors are true, and we
*DO* get one, complete with Cog and all the other missing stuff, I'm reserving
the right to laugh in your face.
And if we don't? Oh, well. $80 I won't have to spend. Good.
-HX
"I must kill you, because God told me to." -Tigatron(?)
"Vooral die smeerlap van een Hooper X !! QWe hate yopu !!!!!!!!" -Drunken
Dutchmen
www.sexsexworld.com <-PLEASE KILL MY LONELY.
To contact me, take off that stupid looking hat you wear.
Citizen V
<9mbihm$3io$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>...
>In article <yxbi7.502$ua....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
>Oh yeah, putting Decepticon symbols (that rather clash, IMO, I'd rather
>they just kept with the Combatron insignia) on a couple of toys
>really makes up for all of the other crap they've done over the past
>couple years, and shows that they really care.
I will agree that the symbol as shown above is rather... out of place, I
think even you have to admit that it's incredibly fanboy-ish-ly cool.
What other... oh. I'll get to that, then.
>>Up yours, Takara RULZ-ers!
>Care to say that again?
Up yours, Takara RULZ-ers!
But seriously, if that offended you, I am sorry... I was overwhelmed by
sheer fanboyish joy. Takara may be REAL DAMN GOOD, but so far, Hasbro's
handling of RiD *TOYS* and not paperwork or 'artifacts' is one of
refreshing compotence.
>As happy as I am about the US getting RID, the
>original CR still has many advantages over it. Autobot and Decepticon
>symbols and a light-up sword + headlights do not make up for a lack of box
>art,
Was the CR or Pre-RiD boxart really that good? Would you rather have Hasbro
slapping old Takara art down (@$$blo is (#33P!, D00D), making their own
(@$$bow's new stuff SUXXORS, D00d!) or just taking pictures of they toys? I
remember being VERY disappointed by my first Transformer toys because the
boxes looked so cool and the toys ended up being unable to look like their
package art... I think the new stuff is both economically sound and not
false advertising, both of which are very good things.
>juvenile mottos, no tech specs for every character,
Ummm... did CR even HAVE mottos? Better juvenile than nothing. Also,
juvenile fits the target audience... and as for the tech specs; that's
probably a problem based on the rush job that was done with the first batch
(Speedbreaker, anyone?). I'm willing to bet that the Second Wave
Spychangers have proper techspecs...
>no catalog
>or battle scene art
This, I'll agree with. I miss this stuff, even though Canada never got
Catalogs, the CR stuff was cool.
>stupid mold changes
Which are required by law or for safety purposes.
>stupid names and name re-uses,
Boo f'n hoo. Fanfic-ify them. No one is stopping you. If you're not happy,
fine, but I don't see how a name like Side Burn (for a car with flames on
the side) can be such a bad thing. And where are these bad name reuses,
exactly? I don't see a G1 X-Brawn. Prowl is fine, as are Mirage, Ironhide
and Rev... Are you mad about Megatron? The new Combat (ic/r) ons, who have
yet to be confirmed? Grimlock, which again has yet to be confirmed?
>and no God Fire Sword or Brave Max (unless that changes).
We don't know about *Max yet... and is the God Fire Sword really such a
loss? Since reading Rik Ruff's comments on the plastic quality and the fact
that Brave Maximus, whose mold the sword was designed for, CAN'T HOLD IT, I
have been totally soured on it. Unless Hasbro chooses to give us the
Adaptor in addition to the sword itself so Maxxy can use his own weapon...
And I have yet to find anyone who can explain and justify Takara's omission
of Brave Maximus' Guns, Rifles and small friends, after they PROVED that
they had the molds with the contest exclusive Fortress Maximus.
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, HASBRO AND TAKARA ARE
BOTH GOOD, BUT I LIKE HASBRO MORE 'CAUSE I CAN AFFORE THEIR STUFF! Is that
better, you... spoilsport? <G>
JORDAN L DERBER
superspy <sar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I'm willing to bet that Hasbro cares just as much as Takara, except that
>the former just isn't as good as hiding the "money-grubbing" part.
And isn't as good at hiding all the places they've cut corners.
>What crap? (Aside from most of the Fuzors) /:)
Everything I've mentioned so far, and apply it to BM and add in a sharp
decline in quality from the BW show to BM, and other things like
thinking Supreme Cheetor would be a good seller...
>....Like? I'm being fairly serious here. I've never seen the Japanese
>version past the first episode.
I was referring to the toys, in case you hadn't noticed. The show I'm
still reserving judgement on, but so far it seems like a mixed bag. I
like that the original TF sound is being used, but I doubt if all of the
cool little things about CR will make it into the RID show (like the CGI
eyecatches, the BGM, the OP and ED themes, all of the opening
animation...).
>Opinions presented as facts, by ATT's own, wonderful
>Jordan Derber, Uber-Otaku
How is it opinion and not fact that Hasbro does all of the things I
mentioned? Hasbro not including box art and tech specs for all characters
while Takara does is indeed FACT. One could argue that it is opinion that
these things make a difference, but I doubt if many would argue that they
don't make the line worse compared to the original.
Citizen V
>>I'm willing to bet that Hasbro cares just as much as Takara, except that
>>the former just isn't as good as hiding the "money-grubbing" part.
>And isn't as good at hiding all the places they've cut corners.
Bull. If Takara is so good, where are Brave Maximusses' guns? If Takara is
so good, why does JRX have incredibly widespread quality control problems?
If Takara is so good, why is Magmatron so easily breakable? If Takara is so
good, why did TF:CR FAIL?
>>What crap? (Aside from most of the Fuzors) /:)
>Everything I've mentioned so far, and apply it to BM and add in a sharp
>decline in quality from the BW show to BM, and other things like
>thinking Supreme Cheetor would be a good seller...
Opinion. Quality of a Television Prgramme is highly if not totally
subjective. And logically, Supreme Cheetor SHOULD have been a tremendous
seller.
>I was referring to the toys, in case you hadn't noticed. The show I'm
>still reserving judgement on, but so far it seems like a mixed bag. I
>like that the original TF sound is being used, but I doubt if all of the
>cool little things about CR will make it into the RID show (like the CGI
>eyecatches, the BGM, the OP and ED themes, all of the opening
>animation...).
I hope the Opening Theme is retained... Go, boy Convoy, etc... but that's a
theme song, and not a toy.
>How is it opinion and not fact that Hasbro does all of the things I
>mentioned? Hasbro not including box art and tech specs for all characters
>while Takara does is indeed FACT.
Um... Hasbro has large toy pictures on the RiD boxes and cards. I prefer it
to art, for the reasons explained in my post, later on in this thread. The
loss of Tech Specs is indeed a shame, but nowhere near the sin you're
painting it as.
>One could argue that it is opinion that
>these things make a difference, but I doubt if many would argue that they
>don't make the line worse compared to the original.
I argue that. A line is judged by its toys, not it's paper.
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar
Walkerton
> they just kept with the Combatron insignia) on a couple of toys
> really makes up for all of the other crap they've done over the past
> couple years, and shows that they really care.
Yeah, stupid Hasbro. They've kept Transformers alive and in the
Top 10 toys list consistently. Why can't they be like Takara, and
RUN THE FRANCHISE INTO THE GROUND?
I swear, if you had your head up Japan's ass any further, you could
wear Russia as a hat.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Desperado00
>
>http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005N7ZT.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
>http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005N7ZR.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
They're <sobs> just <sobs> so <sobs> b-b-beautiful <breaks down crying>.
Oh, sorry for that. Can't wait to get these guys. :)
----------------------------------------
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
An egotist is a self-made man who worships his creator.
If we aren't meant to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?
Brendocon
news:yxbi7.502$ua....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> DVD has reported
>
> http://www.eyrie.org/~dvandom/BW/sightings.html
>
> that Black Convoy/Scourge will be getting his electronics put back in.
>
> Also, look carefully at this picture from amazon.com...
>
> http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005NCH6.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
> What do you see?
>
> Holy mother god...
Ah, yes. They'll be re-doing bits of the cartoon to compliment that most
likely... ;)
==
Brendocon
toys were obviously *far* too show accurate...
Citizen V
>Ah, yes. They'll be re-doing bits of the cartoon to compliment that most
>likely... ;)
No need.
>==
>Brendocon
>toys were obviously *far* too show accurate...
I'm sorry, but what exactly do you mean? The Anti-Cybertron symbol isn't in
the cartoon... and besides, would you rather have bland accuracy or
inaccurate detail?
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, Hasbro is Good.
Brendocon
>
> I'm sorry, but what exactly do you mean? The Anti-Cybertron symbol isn't
in
> the cartoon... and besides, would you rather have bland accuracy or
> inaccurate detail?
Ahem.
http://www.transfandom.com/Media/Generations/Japanese/Car_Robots/Screen_Caps
/combatron/combatron40.jpg
==
Brendocon
and I'll just leave it at that :)
Jarrod Trout
just when they're combined...but even I could have sworn it was always just
shown as this odd detail-less black shape.
Jarrod
"Brendocon" <bren...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9mbrua$jtq$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
superspy
>In article <Laci7.41216$Co6.9...@news02.optonline.net>,
>superspy <sar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I'm willing to bet that Hasbro cares just as much as Takara, except
>>that the former just isn't as good as hiding the "money-grubbing"
>>part.
>
>And isn't as good at hiding all the places they've cut corners.
Yeah, instead they just cut the line off entirely and give the world
Webdiver. Bra-fucking-vo.
>
>>What crap? (Aside from most of the Fuzors) /:)
>
>Everything I've mentioned so far, and apply it to BM and add in a sharp
>decline in quality from the BW show to BM, and other things like
>thinking Supreme Cheetor would be a good seller...
Actually, I'd like to think that the only slide BM took in comparison to
BW was the writing quality, but it certainly wasn't the attrocious mess
that others made it out to be; it was just....sub-par. CGI-wise, I
*liked* the faux-2D effects. It didn't jive with other people, fine:
That's what opinions are for.
>
>>....Like? I'm being fairly serious here. I've never seen the
>>Japanese version past the first episode.
>
>I was referring to the toys, in case you hadn't noticed. The show I'm
>still reserving judgement on, but so far it seems like a mixed bag. I
>like that the original TF sound is being used, but I doubt if all of
>the cool little things about CR will make it into the RID show (like
>the CGI eyecatches, the BGM, the OP and ED themes, all of the opening
>animation...).
Because intros and bumpers make or break a show. Riiiiiight. I certainly
hope you're not expecting some wonderful translation of the show that
justifies how much kewler Takara is than Hasbro, considering the source
material was skewed for very young children.
>
>>Opinions presented as facts, by ATT's own, wonderful
>>Jordan Derber, Uber-Otaku
>
>How is it opinion and not fact that Hasbro does all of the things I
>mentioned? Hasbro not including box art and tech specs for all
>characters while Takara does is indeed FACT. One could argue that it
>is opinion that these things make a difference, but I doubt if many
>would argue that they don't make the line worse compared to the
>original.
It was your implication, the one you spelled out right here, that I was
questioning. I'm sure if the *majority* of fans actually cared about such
things, Hasbro would do it. But the truth is that for who Hasbro's aiming
for, it just isn't worth it to package the toys in stuff, and with stuff,
that's probably going to be thrown out by PARENTS of the CHILDREN who are
the TARGET demographic for these TOYS. If they were aiming for older
collectors, like they do with some Star Wars stuff, your argument could
hold maybe about as much water as kiddie pool.
superspy.
noname
black convoy/scourge that is). As for the combatrons, I wouldn't
trust the pic on amazon that much
On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:48:36 -0400, "Citizen V" <Baron...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
Citizen V
>Damn hasbro! Now I'm going to have to get the japanese version (of
>black convoy/scourge that is).
Why? He won't light up.
>As for the combatrons, I wouldn't
>trust the pic on amazon that much
Why not?
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar
noname
up, I think that the way takara has him now is perfect. Nice dark red
eyes go well along with the black paint job. So does the dark red
sword, I don't want crapy light red eyes & a clear colored sword
On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:01:53 -0400, "Citizen V" <Baron...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
>noname wrote in message ...
Citizen V
>up, I think that the way takara has him now is perfect. Nice dark red
>eyes go well along with the black paint job. So does the dark red
>sword, I don't want crapy light red eyes & a clear colored sword
You do realize that his colors will stay the same, right? Same dark red
eyes, black paint job, clear red sword... with light-up headlights and a
big, glowing fist.
If Takara's 'perfection' is the only reason you want the J-Version now that
I've dispelled your concerns about recoloring or remolding, then that's
sad.
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, really, I mean... "Takara
has him perfect. Making him light up is bad, even though I whined and
moaned when they took out his lights in the first place"... Blablabla...
N-Bomb
BM would've been a GREAT show on it's own... as part of the Transformers
universe, however, it really wasn't that good.
-Nick
"My finger is shining and calling... calling me to kick your ass!"
noname
view, heck maybe even good. If it wasn't part of the tf vers I most
likely wouldn't have watched it
JORDAN L DERBER
Better than not releasing him at all.
If Takara is
>so good, why does JRX have incredibly widespread quality control problems?
I've never seen this firsthand. My Team Shinkansen looks prefect. As far
as I can tell, this was a problem only on the first batch of figures.
>If Takara is so good, why is Magmatron so easily breakable?
hmm, I've never had problems with him... what on him is breakable?
If Takara is so
>good, why did TF:CR FAIL?
Hey, they can't change what's trendy. Stuff like Yu-Gi-Oh was dominating
the boy's market. They still did a better job on little things like
packaging. When you have exactly the same toys, it's the little things
that make all the difference.
>Opinion. Quality of a Television Prgramme is highly if not totally
>subjective.
I'm not an expert on CGI, but I'm sure there's plenty of technical reasons
as to why the animation in BM was inferior to BW.
And logically, Supreme Cheetor SHOULD have been a tremendous
>seller.
How so? There was a smaller version of teh toy on the market at exactly
the same time, and it cost nearly a third as much. How many parents do
you think would pay that much more for something just because it's bigger?
>I hope the Opening Theme is retained... Go, boy Convoy, etc... but that's a
>theme song, and not a toy.
But as it relates to the show, it makes a difference. Opinions of the
song itself aside, which is more appealing: a song done by a professional
singer (with full version on CD single), or a remix of an old 80's theme
song done by no one special?
>Um... Hasbro has large toy pictures on the RiD boxes and cards. I prefer it
>to art, for the reasons explained in my post, later on in this thread.
Hmm, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're in the minority...
The
>loss of Tech Specs is indeed a shame, but nowhere near the sin you're
>painting it as.
It still makes the original CR toys technically superior, as they have
both computer rendered art AND toy pictures.
>I argue that. A line is judged by its toys, not it's paper.
As I've said before, when the toys are almost exactly the same, it's the
little things that make the difference.
Synwraith
> If Takara is
> >so good, why does JRX have incredibly widespread quality control
problems?
>
> I've never seen this firsthand. My Team Shinkansen looks prefect. As far
> as I can tell, this was a problem only on the first batch of figures
Which quality control problems was he referring to?
Thanks in advance
Synwraith.
JORDAN L DERBER
superspy <sar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yeah, instead they just cut the line off entirely and give the world
>Webdiver. Bra-fucking-vo.
They're still doing re-releases and the SCFs. Marketing directly to the
fans is certainly something to applaud in my book, if the kids aren't
interested.
>Because intros and bumpers make or break a show. Riiiiiight.
Never said that they did. Would you argue that it is better to not have
little things like that?
I certainly
>hope you're not expecting some wonderful translation of the show that
>justifies how much kewler Takara is than Hasbro, considering the source
>material was skewed for very young children.
Nope, I am expecting little differences that might make it look worse than
the original, however.
>It was your implication, the one you spelled out right here, that I was
>questioning. I'm sure if the *majority* of fans actually cared about such
>things, Hasbro would do it. But the truth is that for who Hasbro's aiming
>for, it just isn't worth it to package the toys in stuff, and with stuff,
>that's probably going to be thrown out by PARENTS of the CHILDREN who are
>the TARGET demographic for these TOYS. If they were aiming for older
>collectors, like they do with some Star Wars stuff, your argument could
>hold maybe about as much water as kiddie pool.
Sure, the kids don't know what they're missing, so screw 'em. Yeah,
that's a good stance to take. Am I the only one who liked good box art
and bios as a kid? Anyways, regardless of what your opinion on them is,
my point still stands that having them is better than not having them.
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>I will agree that the symbol as shown above is rather... out of place, I
>think even you have to admit that it's incredibly fanboy-ish-ly cool.
Well, I have been anxiously awaiting the return of the Decepticon symbol
to US toys, but I don't think this is quite the way to do it...
>Was the CR or Pre-RiD boxart really that good? Would you rather have Hasbro
>slapping old Takara art down (@$$blo is (#33P!, D00D), making their own
>(@$$bow's new stuff SUXXORS, D00d!) or just taking pictures of they toys?
Any box art is better than no box art.
I
>remember being VERY disappointed by my first Transformer toys because the
>boxes looked so cool and the toys ended up being unable to look like their
>package art... I think the new stuff is both economically sound and not
>false advertising, both of which are very good things.
True, better box art did sometimes make the toy disappointing in
comparison, but even as a kid, I could appreciate them taking artistic
liscense and helping the imagination to give even the simplest of toys
some realism. Without it, many G1 toys just would have been stupid pieces
of plastic.
>Ummm... did CR even HAVE mottos?
Yep, on the catalogs. Nothing special, and not for every character, but
they're better than most of the ones for RID.
Better juvenile than nothing. Also,
>juvenile fits the target audience...
This is the kind of thinking that I really hate. Sure, they're just kids,
it's alright to dumb everything down for them...
and as for the tech specs; that's
>probably a problem based on the rush job that was done with the first batch
>(Speedbreaker, anyone?). I'm willing to bet that the Second Wave
>Spychangers have proper techspecs...
I hope so...
>>stupid mold changes
>
>Which are required by law or for safety purposes.
Hmm, I'm still skeptical about X-Brawns changes. I really don't see how
filling in the headlights and taillights makes it dissimilar enough so
that tehy don't have to pay royalties to MErcedes or something... And why
didn't they have to do something to Side Burn or Prowl?
>>stupid names and name re-uses,
>
>Boo f'n hoo. Fanfic-ify them. No one is stopping you. If you're not happy,
>fine, but I don't see how a name like Side Burn (for a car with flames on
>the side) can be such a bad thing. And where are these bad name reuses,
>exactly? I don't see a G1 X-Brawn. Prowl is fine, as are Mirage, Ironhide
>and Rev... Are you mad about Megatron? The new Combat (ic/r) ons, who have
>yet to be confirmed? Grimlock, which again has yet to be confirmed?
Ones that fit, I don't really mind, but unless these are specifically
supposed to be the original characters, original names would have worked
better.
>We don't know about *Max yet... and is the God Fire Sword really such a
>loss?
Perhaps not, but it's a loss nonetheless. Again, something is better than
nothing.
>And I have yet to find anyone who can explain and justify Takara's omission
>of Brave Maximus' Guns, Rifles and small friends, after they PROVED that
>they had the molds with the contest exclusive Fortress Maximus.
Still, having BM at all is better than not having him.
Citizen V
>>Bull. If Takara is so good, where are Brave Maximusses' guns?
>Better than not releasing him at all.
We do not know yet if RiD will feature the Brave Maximus mold.
>If Takara is
>>so good, why does JRX have incredibly widespread quality control
problems?
>I've never seen this firsthand. My Team Shinkansen looks prefect. As far
>as I can tell, this was a problem only on the first batch of figures.
Out of the TINY sample of people who bought JRX and post to this newsgroup,
I remember Thylacine 2000, Douglas Kern, Myself, BW Sidecutter, Jeff Stein
and a non-posting-friend of mine have all had problems with their JRXes.
That's a tiny number of people and it does indicate a problem.
>>If Takara is so good, why is Magmatron so easily breakable?
>hmm, I've never had problems with him... what on him is breakable?
Several of his pegs, notably the ptera- belly pegs and the sword's handle.
How much do you play with yours?
>If Takara is so
>>good, why did TF:CR FAIL?
>Hey, they can't change what's trendy.
Bull. Do you honestly think Power Rangers would have taken off in North
America if not for Bandai's tireless and exhaustively thorough
cross-promotion? Why is Pokemon slowly circling the dumpster?
Didn't most of Japan NOT SEE the CR Cartoon?
>Stuff like Yu-Gi-Oh was dominating
>the boy's market. They still did a better job on little things like
>packaging. When you have exactly the same toys, it's the little things
>that make all the difference.
Little things... like paint and improved quality control? I like the RiD
packaging fine as is. Stick to facts, please. Like QC problems.
>>Opinion. Quality of a Television Prgramme is highly if not totally
>>subjective.
>I'm not an expert on CGI, but I'm sure there's plenty of technical reasons
>as to why the animation in BM was inferior to BW.
Nope. They went for a different style and in that respect, they succeeded.
Shadows everywhere...
>>And logically, Supreme Cheetor SHOULD have been a tremendous
>>seller.
>How so? There was a smaller version of teh toy on the market at exactly
>the same time, and it cost nearly a third as much. How many parents do
>you think would pay that much more for something just because it's bigger?
Well, it's a popular character, BIG and has loads of gimmicks. I will
readily admit it was overpriced and it was a mistake to also market the
Mega version alongside it, but taken on it's own, it's a fine toy.
Oh, and judging by what I've seen at the local stores, a LOT of parents.
>>I hope the Opening Theme is retained... Go, boy Convoy, etc... but that's
a
>>theme song, and not a toy.
>But as it relates to the show, it makes a difference. Opinions of the
>song itself aside, which is more appealing: a song done by a professional
>singer (with full version on CD single), or a remix of an old 80's theme
>song done by no one special?
Appealing is fine... but see, it doesn't matter how many people watch the
show. What matters is how many people buy the toys... and if the toys
disappoint, as Takara's JRX QC problems have and as Takara's omitted
Maximus weapons have, people will not buy the toys.
I'll readily admit that the show COULD play a part in bringing the kids in,
but I think that more often than not, a toy will lead to a show, and not
the other way around.
>>Um... Hasbro has large toy pictures on the RiD boxes and cards. I prefer
it
>>to art, for the reasons explained in my post, later on in this thread.
>Hmm, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're in the minority...
The truth (as much truth as can be held by a 16 year old's opinion...) is
NEVER a democracy.
>>The
>>loss of Tech Specs is indeed a shame, but nowhere near the sin you're
>>painting it as.
>It still makes the original CR toys technically superior, as they have
>both computer rendered art AND toy pictures.
No, it makes (in your opinion) the CR packaging technically superior.
>>I argue that. A line is judged by its toys, not it's paper.
>As I've said before, when the toys are almost exactly the same, it's the
>little things that make the difference.
The toys aren't exactly the same, though. The RiD ones... are mostly
better.
JORDAN L DERBER
Hooper X <emar...@aol.comuglyhat> wrote:
>For who? The two-and-three packs? I like the photoshopped pictures just fine,
>really. You don't NEED to polish these toys like you did G1.
Well, that's fine for you, but I and many otehrs would prefer having both
toy pictures AND box art, like CR had.
>*ahem.* "Want to race?" "I jam on the Decepticons like I jam on my guitar!"
>"GET OUT OF MY WAY!"
>
>Those are NOTHING new.
And we haven't had them since G2. Why start to make decent (well, some of
them) mottos for BW and BM, then take a step back in quality?
>Oh no! Now I'll never know what Hot Shot's function is! Oh, wait, I can
>READILY find translated versions of the Japanese!
You and I can, but what about little Jimmy or the casual TF fan who likes
this kind of stuff? I know I did when I was little.
>
>> no catalog or battle scene art,
>
>Haven't had THIS since... the end of G1? Catalogs? They just don't DO that
>stateside anymore. At least, not a DEDICATED TF catalog.
Amd why shouldn't they? It's good enough for Japan, why shouldn't the US
get it?
>Like... altering colors.
And filling in headlights and taillights.
Oooh. And fixing Optimus Prime so all his missiles
>don't fire at once, making them INFINITELY harder to lose. That's one mold
>change I'm GLAD for.
I think a better solution would have been to keep the onslaught of
launching missiles and include a few extras to replace lost ones.
>OH MY GOD. Two of the biggest fucking MacGuffins the fanbase has EVER had.
>Fucking God Master Sword. And a fucking Fort Max reissue.
>
>What is the holy fucking deal about the damn sword? Honestly, tell me. I got
>to see Thylacine 2000's at BotCon this year, and it's NOT THAT COOL. IT'S A
>BIG POINTY HUNK OF (at least to me, it looked) FLIMSY PLASTIC. I'd rather give
>my Omega Prime a rusty screwdriver. THAT's menacing.
Whether you personally like it or not is immaterial. The point is that
Japan got it and we won't. They had more of a choice then we did. Maybe
some kids would like BM and the sword and some wouldn't, but at least in
Japan they had the chance for themselves to make that decision.
>And Brave Max? Well, if the HUR HUR HASBRO LUVS FANS rumors are true, and we
>*DO* get one, complete with Cog and all the other missing stuff, I'm reserving
>the right to laugh in your face.
I would love to be proved wrong on this, believe me...
>And if we don't? Oh, well. $80 I won't have to spend. Good.
Brave Max could be bought in Japan for less than $75, so I doubt if he
would cost more than $50 or $60 over here.
Walkerton
> as to why the animation in BM was inferior to BW.
The animation in BM is superior to BW in every way. As a near-graduation
computer animation student, I think I can say this with some small
authority.
The models *move* much more realistically, more fluidly, and and more
believably than Beast Wars ever did. Beast Machines was a huge step up.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Walkerton
> Better than not releasing him at all.
You know, that's a paltry excuse that can be used for just about anything.
First of all, they *already* released him in Japan. TWICE. There can
be arguments made for unreleased molds on those lines, like the unreleased
GoBots or Supreme Primal...
But we're talking about a toy that's seen mass release on all sides of the
globe -- and in some places more than once already.
Where is the great urgency to have the same toy over and over and over?
And why is this demanding our respect and admiration?
> >I hope the Opening Theme is retained... Go, boy Convoy, etc... but that's
a
> >theme song, and not a toy.
> But as it relates to the show, it makes a difference. Opinions of the
> song itself aside, which is more appealing: a song done by a professional
> singer (with full version on CD single), or a remix of an old 80's theme
> song done by no one special?
I dunno. Maybe a song that doesn't sound totally gay and laughable, like
"Go boy, Convoy."
--David
www.itswalky.com
Citizen V
>>Yeah, instead they just cut the line off entirely and give the world
>>Webdiver. Bra-fucking-vo.
>They're still doing re-releases and the SCFs. Marketing directly to the
>fans is certainly something to applaud in my book, if the kids aren't
>interested.
Um... marketing to the fans is a desperate attempt to squeeze some money
out of an eager and willing fanbase. It's nothing to applaud, because it
indicates that they bungled the property with the real money market: the
kids.
>>Because intros and bumpers make or break a show. Riiiiiight.
>Never said that they did. Would you argue that it is better to not have
>little things like that?
According to all the official sources, we will have a Cybertron/Predacon
flippy-face transition, much like G1. And as for ad bumpers, has it occured
to you that this airs on Fox, and that Fox rarely allows original bumpers?
Look at Action Man on YTV vs. Action Man (I think Fox cuts out the AM ad
bumpers... ) on Fox.
>>I certainly
>>hope you're not expecting some wonderful translation of the show that
>>justifies how much kewler Takara is than Hasbro, considering the source
>>material was skewed for very young children.
>Nope, I am expecting little differences that might make it look worse than
>the original, however.
Like? Renames? Consider the intended audience.
>Sure, the kids don't know what they're missing, so screw 'em. Yeah,
>that's a good stance to take. Am I the only one who liked good box art
>and bios as a kid? Anyways, regardless of what your opinion on them is,
>my point still stands that having them is better than not having them.
Granted; having art on the box is a good thing. THERE IS. It's a nice, big
photoshopped picture of the TOY, as opposed to some twisted inaccurate
artist's rendition that often bears little to no resemblance to the toy in
the package.
And Tech Specs? Yes, it's nice to have them, period. Fine. But you know
what? If a tech spec makes or breaks a toy for someone, they're better off
not having the toy and suffering in their toyless-pettyness.
Zobovor
>Well, I have been anxiously awaiting the return of the Decepticon
>symbol to US toys, but I don't think this is quite the way to do it...
Yeah, where do they get off putting the Decepticon symbol on toys that used to
be Decepticon toys, and having the nerve to market and sell them as
Decepticons? I mean, really!
>Any box art is better than no box art.
(Looks at the Machine Wars box art.)
If you say so.
>True, better box art did sometimes make the toy disappointing in
>comparison, but even as a kid, I could appreciate them taking artistic
>liscense and helping the imagination to give even the simplest of toys
>some realism.
>>Better juvenile than nothing. Also, juvenile fits the target audience...
>
>This is the kind of thinking that I really hate. Sure, they're just kids,
>it's alright to dumb everything down for them...
When did he say "dumb"? He didn't. He said "juvenile." As in, relating to
young people. Who are, last time I checked, the target audience for the toy
line and cartoon series.
>Hmm, I'm still skeptical about X-Brawns changes. I really don't see
>how filling in the headlights and taillights makes it dissimilar enough so
>that tehy don't have to pay royalties to MErcedes or something... And
>why didn't they have to do something to Side Burn or Prowl?
Well, it's true, regardless of whether you understand it or not. They did the
same thing to Artfire/Hotshot back when he was originally released for G2,
altering the Porsche headlights. As for the other toys, it's possible Hasbro
already had licensing agreements with those companies regarding other toy
lines, or perhaps Mercedes was asking for more money for the right to use their
vehicle's likeness than Hasbro was willing to pay.
>>We don't know about *Max yet... and is the God Fire Sword really
>>such a loss?
>
>Perhaps not, but it's a loss nonetheless. Again, something is better
>than nothing.
You complain about the miserable failure that was Supreme Cheetor (mind, the
most popular U.S. Transformers character in history, the character who got more
toys than Optimus Prime) and then you complain that Hasbro isn't going to
release an even *more* expensive toy, that doesn't even *do* anything
electronic or gimmicky, based on a character they haven't even *heard* of?
Frankly, it looks to me like you're just looking for an excuse to bash Hasbro
and praise Takara.
Zobovor... because you can't actually be a fan of *both,* you see. They are
mortal enemies, and you must love one at the expense of the other at all costs.
You're not a True Fan if you don't hate one or the other.
Zobovor
>The animation in BM is superior to BW in every way. As a
>near-graduation computer animation student, I think I can say this with >some
small authority.
Oh, come off it, Walky. "This is my OPINION, but since I have credentials my
OPINION is more right than yours is."
Citizen V
>>For who? The two-and-three packs? I like the photoshopped pictures just
fine,
>>really. You don't NEED to polish these toys like you did G1.
>Well, that's fine for you, but I and many otehrs would prefer having both
>toy pictures AND box art, like CR had.
The truth is never a democracy. If all the newsgroup suddenly, truthfully
decided that Drill Bit never existed, would that make it true? It's good
that you and a host of others have their preferences... as long as you
remember that they are no more than PREFERENCES.
>>*ahem.* "Want to race?" "I jam on the Decepticons like I jam on my
guitar!"
>>"GET OUT OF MY WAY!"
>>Those are NOTHING new.
>And we haven't had them since G2. Why start to make decent (well, some of
>them) mottos for BW and BM, then take a step back in quality?
A-hem. This seems like more of an argument to drop Quotes altogether...
>>Oh no! Now I'll never know what Hot Shot's function is! Oh, wait, I can
>>READILY find translated versions of the Japanese!
>You and I can, but what about little Jimmy or the casual TF fan who likes
>this kind of stuff? I know I did when I was little.
Different times...
>>> no catalog or battle scene art,
>>Haven't had THIS since... the end of G1? Catalogs? They just don't DO
that
>>stateside anymore. At least, not a DEDICATED TF catalog.
>Amd why shouldn't they? It's good enough for Japan, why shouldn't the US
>get it?
Because outside of a very vocal minority, no one cares?
>>Like... altering colors.
>And filling in headlights and taillights.
Legal problem...
>>Oooh. And fixing Optimus Prime so all his missiles
>>don't fire at once, making them INFINITELY harder to lose. That's one
mold
>>change I'm GLAD for.
>I think a better solution would have been to keep the onslaught of
>launching missiles and include a few extras to replace lost ones.
Extra accessories that can't be stored in an alternate mode? This isn't
Takara we're talking about.
>>OH MY GOD. Two of the biggest fucking MacGuffins the fanbase has EVER
had.
>>Fucking God Master Sword. And a fucking Fort Max reissue.
>>What is the holy fucking deal about the damn sword? Honestly, tell me.
I got
>>to see Thylacine 2000's at BotCon this year, and it's NOT THAT COOL.
IT'S A
>>BIG POINTY HUNK OF (at least to me, it looked) FLIMSY PLASTIC. I'd
rather give
>>my Omega Prime a rusty screwdriver. THAT's menacing.
>Whether you personally like it or not is immaterial.
Words to live by.
>The point is that
>Japan got it and we won't.
Yeah, but Japan also got a Fort Max recolor in G1. If Hasbro tried that
today, we'd scream bloody murder.
>They had more of a choice then we did.
So what? Expensive Glowy Giftset with Unimpressive Sword or unremarkable
individuals is a choice? If you say it's better to have a choice, remember
what happened at the end of CR... and how it failed, and WHY.
>Maybe
>some kids would like BM and the sword and some wouldn't, but at least in
>Japan they had the chance for themselves to make that decision.
No, in Japan they got 'You'll have to buy a new, expensive giftset to get a
big hunk of plastic. '
And we MAY YET GET BRAVE MAX. STOP WHINING ABOUT IT.
>>And Brave Max? Well, if the HUR HUR HASBRO LUVS FANS rumors are true,
and we
>>*DO* get one, complete with Cog and all the other missing stuff, I'm
reserving
>>the right to laugh in your face.
>I would love to be proved wrong on this, believe me...
I too would love for you to be prove wrong here, even if all you're going
on so far is hearsay.
>>And if we don't? Oh, well. $80 I won't have to spend. Good.
>Brave Max could be bought in Japan for less than $75, so I doubt if he
>would cost more than $50 or $60 over here.
On sale.
Fact: His SRP is 9980 Yen. It's printed on his f'n box.
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, admires how civil we're
all being...
superspy
>In article <b1gi7.44879$Co6.10...@news02.optonline.net>,
>superspy <sar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Yeah, instead they just cut the line off entirely and give the world
>>Webdiver. Bra-fucking-vo.
>
>They're still doing re-releases and the SCFs. Marketing directly to
>the fans is certainly something to applaud in my book, if the kids
>aren't interested.
Then let me rephrase: Cut the line off from any new continuity and toys,
and going back to the wallets of adult fans with re-issues and PVC statues
of G1 characters.
I count those as "reruns", as far as mass marketing the things, it's
obvious that Takara doesn't want to touch the line for a bit.
>
>>Because intros and bumpers make or break a show. Riiiiiight.
>
>Never said that they did. Would you argue that it is better to not
>have little things like that?
I honestly wouldn't care. I judge a show by it's content, and my opinion
of it wouldn't be changed by random splashes of CG and incidental music.
>
>I certainly
>>hope you're not expecting some wonderful translation of the show that
>>justifies how much kewler Takara is than Hasbro, considering the
>>source material was skewed for very young children.
>
>Nope, I am expecting little differences that might make it look worse
>than the original, however.
Because Hasbro just inevitably screw things up. Sure. That's why the
series is still around in the States and all Takara's doing is digging up
old toys.
>
>>It was your implication, the one you spelled out right here, that I
>>was questioning. I'm sure if the *majority* of fans actually cared
>>about such things, Hasbro would do it. But the truth is that for who
>>Hasbro's aiming for, it just isn't worth it to package the toys in
>>stuff, and with stuff, that's probably going to be thrown out by
>>PARENTS of the CHILDREN who are the TARGET demographic for these TOYS.
>> If they were aiming for older collectors, like they do with some Star
>>Wars stuff, your argument could hold maybe about as much water as
>>kiddie pool.
>
>Sure, the kids don't know what they're missing, so screw 'em. Yeah,
>that's a good stance to take. Am I the only one who liked good box art
>and bios as a kid? Anyways, regardless of what your opinion on them
>is, my point still stands that having them is better than not having
>them.
More is better, huh? Justify the cost to Hasbro. Everyone always says
that "Adult fans make up 40% of their sales, so blah blah blah, we're so
damned important!" Fuck that noise, dude. I'd like to see that statistic
broken down into their franchises. How many adults buy *Transformers*? I
can assure you that it falls directly into the category of "not many." So
why should Hasbro spend the money on appealing to them?
>
>Jordan Derber, Uber-Otaku
Keep up the self-righteous attitude, man. As far as I'm concerned, you're
putting the "moron" in "Otaku."
superspy.
Walkerton
that
> >stateside anymore. At least, not a DEDICATED TF catalog.
>
> Amd why shouldn't they? It's good enough for Japan, why shouldn't the US
> get it?
As Hasbro themselves have stated, they want to cross-promote all their
lines.
Is that a sin?
> >Like... altering colors.
>
> And filling in headlights and taillights.
To avoid legal issues. Those shitheads.
> Whether you personally like it or not is immaterial. The point is that
> Japan got it and we won't. They had more of a choice then we did. Maybe
> some kids would like BM and the sword and some wouldn't, but at least in
> Japan they had the chance for themselves to make that decision.
Kinda like how Japan had the chance to get the later TM2s and the entire
Beast Machines line...
...oh, wait. They didn't.
I guess that means Takara hates the fans, huh?
--David
www.itswalky.com
Aaron F. Bourque
>I'll say this once more... :)
>
>BM would've been a GREAT show on it's own... as part of the Transformers
>universe, however, it really wasn't that good.
How is this possible? That's like saying "Frasier was a great show on it's own,
but as part of the Cheers universe, it really isn't as good."
This is just absurd.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; either it's good or it's not--no
dissembling.
--
"If you don't know concentration, which gives you peculiar pleasure, your life
looks like hell."--Hiroyuki Nishigaki
http://delinquents.keenspace.com/d/20010703.html
Damn the tree and all its kind!
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>We do not know yet if RiD will feature the Brave Maximus mold.
From what we've heard so far, there are no plans for it. I hope the
>Out of the TINY sample of people who bought JRX and post to this newsgroup,
>I remember Thylacine 2000, Douglas Kern, Myself, BW Sidecutter, Jeff Stein
>and a non-posting-friend of mine have all had problems with their JRXes.
>That's a tiny number of people and it does indicate a problem.
If these people all bought him when he first came out, then they probably
got the bad first batch. I got mine in December, and he's perfect.
>Several of his pegs, notably the ptera- belly pegs and the sword's handle.
>
>How much do you play with yours?
I don't really play with mine so much as TF them back and forth and
disiplay them (never really did more than that as a kid, either).
Sometimes intricate toys can be fragile, and I love how complex Magmatron
is.
>Bull. Do you honestly think Power Rangers would have taken off in North
>America if not for Bandai's tireless and exhaustively thorough
>cross-promotion? Why is Pokemon slowly circling the dumpster?
Takara had toy commercials on and had video and DVD releases of CR. They
had ads in kid's magazines. An avalanche of advertising compared to what
Hasbro does. Kids had gradually been losing interest in TFs since the
initial popularity of BW in Japan.
>Little things... like paint and improved quality control? I like the RiD
>packaging fine as is.
I don't. I know alot of people who don't like it either, especially
compared to CR.
>Stick to facts, please. Like QC problems.
It's still a fact that CR had box art, tech specs cards. Not to mention
no filled in lights on Wildride and rub-sign paint on the Spychangers.
>Nope. They went for a different style and in that respect, they succeeded.
>Shadows everywhere...
You tell me to stick to the facts, but you keep giving me your own
opinions... I can tell from the cheap "morphing" transformations that
there wasn't as much work put into the animation in BM as it was in BW.
>Well, it's a popular character, BIG and has loads of gimmicks. I will
>readily admit it was overpriced and it was a mistake to also market the
>Mega version alongside it, but taken on it's own, it's a fine toy.
Hmm, I disagree. It's a big staand-up transforming clunky big yellow
piece of plastic.
>Oh, and judging by what I've seen at the local stores, a LOT of parents.
Hmm, can't be that many considering how many Cheetors I see on
clearance...
>Appealing is fine... but see, it doesn't matter how many people watch the
>show.
How can you say that? It's the main advertisement for the toys. Why
should it be inferior in any way to the original Japanese show?
>I'll readily admit that the show COULD play a part in bringing the kids in,
>but I think that more often than not, a toy will lead to a show, and not
>the other way around.
A show still sells a lot of toys.
>No, it makes (in your opinion) the CR packaging technically superior.
CR has box art and toys pictures. RID only has toy pictures. CR has tech
spec cards for all characters. RID does not. Whether you like these
things or not, many people (and kids!) do. Who are you to tell them
that they're getting just as good of a deal? The toy may be the most
important part, but the packaging is still part of the product.
>The toys aren't exactly the same, though. The RiD ones... are mostly
>better.
Only the insignias. Otherwise, the mold changes and change in plastic
quality make them slightly inferior.
Aaron F. Bourque
Well, that is the idea behind "expert witnesses" in the courts.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
Zobovor
>Well, that's fine for you, but I and many otehrs would prefer having both
>toy pictures AND box art, like CR had.
You know, there is in fact a toy line that had exactly what you're looking for.
It was called Transformers: Car Robots. I think it was available in Japan.
Hasbro is taking a different approach with RiD when it comes to some aspects.
So? Me, I like some of the changes they made (Autobot symbols on the toys,
retooling Optimus Prime's weapon so that it doesn't fire when you don't want it
to) and I don't care for other changes (no tech specs and instructions for some
of the toys, sloppy trilingual packaging). Bitching and bitching and bitching
about it isn't going to change Hasbro's approach in the least, though. They're
still going to do the things that you don't like, regardless.
>>Catalogs? They just don't DO that stateside anymore. At least, not a
>>DEDICATED TF catalog.
>
>Amd why shouldn't they? It's good enough for Japan, why shouldn't the
>US get it?
We already get photos of every toy in the assortment on the back of the
packages. Kids know which toys are out based on that, and it serves exactly
the same purpose the catalogs did. Hasbro's also got a web site which,
presumably, will eventually show the toy line in its entirety (and don't think
that eight-year-old kids never visit).
>The point is that Japan got it and we won't. They had more of a choice
>then we did. Maybe some kids would like BM and the sword and some
>wouldn't, but at least in Japan they had the chance for themselves to
>make that decision.
Well, then, by that line of reasoning Takara sucks for not releasing the Beast
Machines toy line and cartoon over there. At least kids could have made up
their minds for themselves whether they liked it or not, right?
--
Zobovor
ZMFTS: Becca liked the Mousey Guy before I kitbashed him.
http://members.aol.com/zobovor/index.html
Zobovor
>>BM would've been a GREAT show on it's own... as part of the
>>Transformers universe, however, it really wasn't that good.
>
>How is this possible?
Simple. If it were a stand-alone show about a group of freedom fighters trying
to save their planet from oppression, it would have been pretty neat.
To reinvent what it means for a Transformer to be able to transform, though...
to spontaneously and inexplicably proclaim that Cybertron isn't "whole" until
it's half-organic... to shoehorn existing characters into roles that don't fit
their personalities in an attempt to tell this story... that's where the
concept starts to fall apart a bit.
superspy
then said <20010826234838...@mb-mc.aol.com>:
Actually, it does. At least, it gives a significant amount of weight to
his opinion. It's why psychologists are usually asked for their opinions
on the state of a person's mind instead of, say, random chumps pulled off
the street.
superspy.
Walkerton
If the credentials fit, sure.
If you'd like, I can go through example-by-example and name off areas
that I think are improved. But I don't have the time at this moment to
watch
a ton of episodes to get specific examples. (One that springs instantly to
mind
is original Blackarachnia's walk cycle versus her Beast Machines
counterpart.
The original's is very mechanical and not very fluid, while her BM model had
a
much more feminine and natural walk cycle.) Thus the "I think I know what
I'm
talking about" tag-on.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Robert Powers
Behold! On 27 Aug 2001 03:01:04 GMT, JORDAN L DERBER <jsd...@pitt.edu>
did speak:
>packaging. When you have exactly the same toys, it's the little things
>that make all the difference.
Eh. More like when you have exactly the same toys, there really *isn't*
much difference.
If any at all.
--
Robert Powers of the Ever-Changing .sig
repo...@uwm.edu
http://www.BuiltStLouis.net/ __________________
| SONG IN MY HEAD RIGHT NOW: |
| "Going Down the Road", by.... |
|_ is it Painter, or Shoot? I can't remember. |
JORDAN L DERBER
Walkerton <wii...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>As Hasbro themselves have stated, they want to cross-promote all their
>lines.
>Is that a sin?
They haven't had ANY catalogs of late.
>> And filling in headlights and taillights.
>
>To avoid legal issues. Those shitheads.
I'm still not convinced that this is the only reason why the lights were
filled in.
>Kinda like how Japan had the chance to get the later TM2s and the entire
>Beast Machines line...
They did get many of the TM2s, sold in US packaging in TRU. BM may still
be released over there.
>...oh, wait. They didn't.
>
>I guess that means Takara hates the fans, huh?
No more so than Hasbro not releasing any of the other Japanese lines means
that they hate us.
Doug Kern
<Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> JORDAN L DERBER wrote in message
> <9mcd5g$595$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>...
>
> >>Bull. If Takara is so good, where are Brave Maximusses' guns?
>
> >Better than not releasing him at all.
>
> We do not know yet if RiD will feature the Brave Maximus mold.
>
> >If Takara is
> >>so good, why does JRX have incredibly widespread quality control
> problems?
>
> >I've never seen this firsthand. My Team Shinkansen looks prefect. As
> >far
> >as I can tell, this was a problem only on the first batch of figures.
>
> Out of the TINY sample of people who bought JRX and post to this
> newsgroup,
> I remember Thylacine 2000, Douglas Kern, Myself, BW Sidecutter, Jeff
> Stein
> and a non-posting-friend of mine have all had problems with their JRXes.
> That's a tiny number of people and it does indicate a problem.
>
You know now that I got my nice digital camera, I can show the world
pictures of the extremely rare, green variety of JRX! Yes Takara
released this rare variety in the first batches to cater to the early
buyer fans! Those dried out paint bubbles? They are really battle
dammage! The sloppy windows? Those are really paint effects to show
off the fact these are bullet trains and can go fast! The paint flaking
when the hands move? That's a special nanotech snow flake weapon!
Errr screw it, JRX just really has some serious quality control
problems. These problems have continued into Web Diver. I have a
freind who has gotten all the toys, and so far only Drag-On has not been
graced with any.
I should take pictures of those too! Maybe set up a page of quality
control problems for recent lines.
As for RiD JRX, Hasbro should be able to fix them though. Would be
extremely hard not to, they never let a toy out of their factories that
was as screwed up quality control wise as the JRX toys were.
--
Doug Kern
AKA
Monocle
ICQ Page #:8793444
dougla...@earthlink.net
Doug Kern
<fda...@jklfda.com> wrote:
> Thats why I want the japanese version. I don't want one that lights
> up, I think that the way takara has him now is perfect. Nice dark red
> eyes go well along with the black paint job. So does the dark red
> sword, I don't want crapy light red eyes & a clear colored sword
>
>
Um I don't have lazer OP, but arn't the Headlights and the sword the
only thing that light up on the mold? The eyes should stay the same,
and the red sword could still work easily with the LED since it is made
of transparent red plastic.
Citizen V
>>I will agree that the symbol as shown above is rather... out of place, I
>>think even you have to admit that it's incredibly fanboy-ish-ly cool.
>Well, I have been anxiously awaiting the return of the Decepticon symbol
>to US toys, but I don't think this is quite the way to do it...
Again, I admire how we're responding point-by-point, instead of mindlessly
flaming. It's... pleasant. A Mental Workout, if you will.
>>Was the CR or Pre-RiD boxart really that good? Would you rather have
Hasbro
>>slapping old Takara art down (@$$blo is (#33P!, D00D), making their own
>>(@$$bow's new stuff SUXXORS, D00d!) or just taking pictures of they toys?
>Any box art is better than no box art.
We. Have. F'n. Boxart. It's a nice, big, truthful-looking photoshopped toy
picture.
>True, better box art did sometimes make the toy disappointing in
>comparison, but even as a kid, I could appreciate them taking artistic
>liscense and helping the imagination to give even the simplest of toys
>some realism. Without it, many G1 toys just would have been stupid pieces
>of plastic.
Your call. *shrug* I think a whole lot of G1 are Stupid Pieces of Plastic
anyways...
>>Ummm... did CR even HAVE mottos?
>Yep, on the catalogs. Nothing special, and not for every character, but
>they're better than most of the ones for RID.
Um...
Mach Alert: No disobeying the rules.
Prowl: You can run but you can't hide!
Wildride: Manly men are quiet when entering combat.
X-Brawn: Strength wins!
Speedbreaker: Explosive Speed, GO!
Sideburn: Speed limit? What speed limit?
Rest of ATT, make up your own minds.
>Better juvenile than nothing. Also,
>>juvenile fits the target audience...
>This is the kind of thinking that I really hate. Sure, they're just kids,
>it's alright to dumb everything down for them...
I didn't say dumb down, I said make it fun. There's a big difference.
**coughcoughDigimoncoughcough**
>>>stupid mold changes
>>Which are required by law or for safety purposes.
>Hmm, I'm still skeptical about X-Brawns changes. I really don't see how
>filling in the headlights and taillights makes it dissimilar enough so
>that tehy don't have to pay royalties to MErcedes or something... And why
>didn't they have to do something to Side Burn or Prowl?
Look at the Hot Shot mold... and maybe the Crosswise one too...
>>>stupid names and name re-uses,
>>Boo f'n hoo. Fanfic-ify them. No one is stopping you. If you're not
happy,
>>fine, but I don't see how a name like Side Burn (for a car with flames on
>>the side) can be such a bad thing. And where are these bad name reuses,
>>exactly? I don't see a G1 X-Brawn. Prowl is fine, as are Mirage, Ironhide
>>and Rev... Are you mad about Megatron? The new Combat (ic/r) ons, who
have
>>yet to be confirmed? Grimlock, which again has yet to be confirmed?
>Ones that fit, I don't really mind, but unless these are specifically
>supposed to be the original characters, original names would have worked
>better.
I agree. I prefer original names, unless the older character was totally
worthless (no one complains about Rev... ), but I'm not crying. There is
the age-old 'copyright' argument that I'll not go into... and there's the
'invoke nostalgia' argument. If the new characters fit the names, fine...
but reuses are NOT the sin you're making them out to be.
>>We don't know about *Max yet... and is the God Fire Sword really such a
>>loss?
>Perhaps not, but it's a loss nonetheless. Again, something is better than
>nothing.
What about the Japanese fans? How do they feel about missing out on Beast
Machines' Mirage, Jetstorms, Tank -or/Drone, Spystreak...
>>And I have yet to find anyone who can explain and justify Takara's
omission
>>of Brave Maximus' Guns, Rifles and small friends, after they PROVED that
>>they had the molds with the contest exclusive Fortress Maximus.
>Still, having BM at all is better than not having him.
In other words: Better to have a half-ass job now than wait for the full
ass job.
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Um... marketing to the fans is a desperate attempt to squeeze some money
>out of an eager and willing fanbase.
It's giving the people what they want, what's wrong with that?
It's nothing to applaud, because it
>indicates that they bungled the property with the real money market: the
>kids.
By the same argument, one could say Hasbro bungled G1 when it stopped over
here but continued in Japan and Europe.
>According to all the official sources, we will have a Cybertron/Predacon
>flippy-face transition, much like G1.
That was in CR.
And as for ad bumpers, has it occured
>to you that this airs on Fox, and that Fox rarely allows original bumpers?
>Look at Action Man on YTV vs. Action Man (I think Fox cuts out the AM ad
>bumpers... ) on Fox.
True, it's not Hasbro's fault, I wasn't arguing who's fault it was. But
having eyecatches still gives CR an advantage over RID.
>>Nope, I am expecting little differences that might make it look worse than
>>the original, however.
>
>Like? Renames? Consider the intended audience.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of sup-par acting. It's
already been reported that every actor for RID records their lines
individually instead of in a group. This is BAD. It's very hard to have
a natural and emotion-filled session when the actors can't interact with
each other. But sure, they're just kids, they don't really need quality
voice direction, just throw together anything and they'll watch it.
>Granted; having art on the box is a good thing. THERE IS. It's a nice, big
>photoshopped picture of the TOY, as opposed to some twisted inaccurate
>artist's rendition that often bears little to no resemblance to the toy in
>the package.
Maybe in the days of G1, but the CR art matches the toys in nearly every
way.
>And Tech Specs? Yes, it's nice to have them, period. Fine. But you know
>what? If a tech spec makes or breaks a toy for someone, they're better off
>not having the toy and suffering in their toyless-pettyness.
You really think it's petty to want a better quality product?
Doug Kern
> Kinda like how Japan had the chance to get the later TM2s and the entire
> Beast Machines line...
And this is really sad. They are missing out on a lot of great toys.
No Strika. No BM Blackarachnia. No Nightviper
> ...oh, wait. They didn't.
>
> I guess that means Takara hates the fans, huh?
Didn't they also can BotCon Japan 2001?
Walkerton
> >lines.
> >Is that a sin?
>
> They haven't had ANY catalogs of late.
Probably to save money, then. Hasbro's one of those companies that
tries *not* to go under.
> >To avoid legal issues. Those shitheads.
>
> I'm still not convinced that this is the only reason why the lights were
> filled in.
Then it was done expressly just to piss you off.
> They did get many of the TM2s, sold in US packaging in TRU. BM may still
> be released over there.
>
> >...oh, wait. They didn't.
> >
> >I guess that means Takara hates the fans, huh?
>
> No more so than Hasbro not releasing any of the other Japanese lines means
> that they hate us.
But that's not what I'm arguing. I'm only following your terms of logic for
this.
I don't think that Hasbro hates us for not giving us BWII or Neo or
whatever.
But now that RiD is being released here, every small little difference is a
sign
from the heavens that Hasbro is full of incompetent fools.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Walkerton
> extremely hard not to, they never let a toy out of their factories that
> was as screwed up quality control wise as the JRX toys were.
I wouldn't say that, Doug. My Predacon 3-pack was horrible.
Their limbs simply don't stay on at all. I was royally cheezed off.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Aaron F. Bourque
>Aaron F. Bourque wrote:
>
>>>BM would've been a GREAT show on it's own... as part of the
>>>Transformers universe, however, it really wasn't that good.
>>
>>How is this possible?
>
>Simple.
Oh, sure it is.
>If it were a stand-alone show about a group of freedom fighters trying
>to save their planet from oppression, it would have been pretty neat.
No, it wouldn't have. Not they way it was presented. Change the names, and
there's almost no reason to watch the show. There's almost no reason to root
for the heroes until later in the *second * season . . .
>To reinvent what it means for a Transformer to be able to transform,
>though...
They just added another way for them too. This is not unlike Si Furman
retconning the TFs origins *twice* during his run scripting TF comics. And it
was interesting, dammit. Play with conventions! It's fun, and can produce some
neat results.
>to spontaneously and inexplicably proclaim that Cybertron isn't "whole" until
>it's half-organic...
Which, if the show had been a stand-alone, would not have made it any better
. . .
>to shoehorn existing characters into roles that don't fit their personalities
>in an attempt to tell this story...
How do we know that? What if--I've mentioned this before, but I don't think
anyone ever responded--the characterizations were spot on, as per the series
bible? The only reason "we" think the characters were so "off" is because we
got so emotionally involved in a select few, redundant aspects of the
characters that we couldn't accept other parts of their personality, which do
fit
with their miniscule and repetitive characterizations*.
>that's where the concept starts to fall apart a bit.
What you've mentioned (aside from the characterization, for obvious reasons)
would not have improved the quality of the show, to its detracters.
I'll readily admit the show ain't perfect, but it's not the death to
transformers or
the complete drek (or the bowel movement) that so-f*ckin'-many want to decry
it as.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
*By "repetitive characterizations," I mean that there was never any damn
growth for the characters. Season one BW Ratrap is only distinguishable from
Season 3 BW Ratrap because they have a different body (as much as I hate
"The Weak Component," at least it showed Rattrap change!). Only two Beast
Wars characters were dynamic in any way: Dinobot, who was so dynamic, he
switched allegience 3 times (twice in one episode! And it was never a ruse
to determine how deep the Maximal's security breach was--i.e. magic-reset-
button with no repurcussions), and Depth Charge, who died immediately after
his first character epiphany . . . . Bleah.
Doug Kern
<wii...@hotmail.com> wrote:
So then the US can experience the horror of JRX? Damn that really does
suck. Ah well been saying the toy was a stinking pile for a while now,
so shouldn't surprise me if the US one suffered too.
Citizen V
>>We do not know yet if RiD will feature the Brave Maximus mold.
>From what we've heard so far, there are no plans for it. I hope the
I hope what we've heard so far is wrong. I think it is, too... but that's
all, really.
>>Out of the TINY sample of people who bought JRX and post to this
newsgroup,
>>I remember Thylacine 2000, Douglas Kern, Myself, BW Sidecutter, Jeff
Stein
>>and a non-posting-friend of mine have all had problems with their JRXes.
>>That's a tiny number of people and it does indicate a problem.
>If these people all bought him when he first came out, then they probably
>got the bad first batch. I got mine in December, and he's perfect.
Name a Hasbro TF toy from the year 2000/2001 with equivalent problems,
assuming any exist.
>>Several of his pegs, notably the ptera- belly pegs and the sword's
handle.
>>How much do you play with yours?
>I don't really play with mine so much as TF them back and forth and
>disiplay them (never really did more than that as a kid, either).
>Sometimes intricate toys can be fragile, and I love how complex Magmatron
>is.
I too love complexity, but not fragility... it's not an isolated problem,
but I'd glad to hear it's not affecting you.
>>Bull. Do you honestly think Power Rangers would have taken off in North
>>America if not for Bandai's tireless and exhaustively thorough
>>cross-promotion? Why is Pokemon slowly circling the dumpster?
>Takara had toy commercials on and had video and DVD releases of CR. They
>had ads in kid's magazines. An avalanche of advertising compared to what
>Hasbro does. Kids had gradually been losing interest in TFs since the
>initial popularity of BW in Japan.
We don't know what Hasbro will do yet... It's too early in the game. It is
sad they haven't gotten anything out yet, but the toys are apparently
selling Really Damn Well, and as such, advertising isn't really a top
concern yet.
>>Stick to facts, please. Like QC problems.
>It's still a fact that CR had box art, tech specs cards. Not to mention
>no filled in lights on Wildride and rub-sign paint on the Spychangers.
I prefer the detail paint on the Spychangers than the rubsigns... that's
largely irrelevant, though. The changes were made. That's a fact. Are the
changes for the better? That depends on you...
>>Nope. They went for a different style and in that respect, they
succeeded.
>>Shadows everywhere...
>You tell me to stick to the facts, but you keep giving me your own
>opinions... I can tell from the cheap "morphing" transformations that
>there wasn't as much work put into the animation in BM as it was in BW.
Debatable... for someone more knowledgeable than I. I will argue that the
shadows were no doubt very time-consuming, however, and indicative of
effort being put in... maybe not the right places, but still there.
Oh, and I said they succeeded at having BM have a different artistic style
than BW. If that's not a fact, I don't know what is.
>>Well, it's a popular character, BIG and has loads of gimmicks. I will
>>readily admit it was overpriced and it was a mistake to also market the
>>Mega version alongside it, but taken on it's own, it's a fine toy.
>Hmm, I disagree. It's a big staand-up transforming clunky big yellow
>piece of plastic.
Of a popular character and with loads of gimmicks. The mega version was a
mistake...
>>Oh, and judging by what I've seen at the local stores, a LOT of parents.
>Hmm, can't be that many considering how many Cheetors I see on
>clearance...
Here they sell very well. *shrug*
>>I'll readily admit that the show COULD play a part in bringing the kids
in,
>>but I think that more often than not, a toy will lead to a show, and not
>>the other way around.
>A show still sells a lot of toys.
Yes, but a toyline without a show could still succeed dramatically.
>>No, it makes (in your opinion) the CR packaging technically superior.
>CR has box art and toys pictures. RID only has toy pictures.
That fulfill the box art role.
>CR has tech
>spec cards for all characters. RID does not.
Granted. And I think the lack of RiD specs is a mistake, but NOT a fatal
one, as you are putting forth.
>Whether you like these
>things or not, many people (and kids!) do. Who are you to tell them
>that they're getting just as good of a deal?
Um... in Japan, Gigatron is 2980 Yen, which is about $26... and here, he's
$20 and change. It IS a good deal... would you pay $6 extra plus taxes for
some nice paper?
>The toy may be the most
>important part, but the packaging is still part of the product.
Yeah... and the RiD stuff is STILL leagues better than a whole lot of other
stuff. It could be better. Fine. But it's not inherently inferior to
Takara's stuff.
>>The toys aren't exactly the same, though. The RiD ones... are mostly
>>better.
>Only the insignias. Otherwise, the mold changes and change in plastic
>quality make them slightly inferior.
Change in plastic quality? Where?
And some mold changes are good... Fire Convoy was brought up, and I'll have
to mention how my X-Brawn is more sturdy than my Wildride...
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, may have to go to sleep
now... making too many sloppy typos...
BW Sidecutter
>I remember Thylacine 2000, Douglas Kern, Myself, BW Sidecutter,
I'm not sure I consider a teeny little paint app miss on one member's "beak"
really a problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BW Sidecutter
Http://connect.to/DSNPort91881
Captured Prey - Http://members.aol.com/capturedprey/capturedprey.html
Savage/Noble - Best TF of the 1st 1/2, 2001
Citizen V
>>> And filling in headlights and taillights.
>>To avoid legal issues. Those shitheads.
>I'm still not convinced that this is the only reason why the lights were
>filled in.
Why else? Because they hate us? Please don't say that...
>>Kinda like how Japan had the chance to get the later TM2s and the entire
>>Beast Machines line...
>They did get many of the TM2s, sold in US packaging in TRU. BM may still
>be released over there.
You know what? We got TF: CR. It may have been through places like Image
Anime or Rugby's, but we got them!
The TRU line is bullpoop. Sorry.
>>I guess that means Takara hates the fans, huh?
>No more so than Hasbro not releasing any of the other Japanese lines means
>that they hate us.
Dinobots.
Hasbrocollectors.com
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, and besides, I'd rather
have BM than Victory...
Citizen V
>>Um... marketing to the fans is a desperate attempt to squeeze some money
>>out of an eager and willing fanbase.
>It's giving the people what they want, what's wrong with that?
That it means the company mishandled the KIDS, who pay the bills...
>>It's nothing to applaud, because it
>>indicates that they bungled the property with the real money market: the
>>kids.
>By the same argument, one could say Hasbro bungled G1 when it stopped over
>here but continued in Japan and Europe.
Yeah, it did. Action Masters, Pretenders and Micromasters with no show was
not a smart move. They did bungle and they bounced back...
>>According to all the official sources, we will have a Cybertron/Predacon
>>flippy-face transition, much like G1.
>That was in CR.
OK, so it's still in RiD. That's a good thing...
>>And as for ad bumpers, has it occured
>>to you that this airs on Fox, and that Fox rarely allows original
bumpers?
>>Look at Action Man on YTV vs. Action Man (I think Fox cuts out the AM ad
>>bumpers... ) on Fox.
>True, it's not Hasbro's fault, I wasn't arguing who's fault it was. But
>having eyecatches still gives CR an advantage over RID.
RiD may have eyecatches. We don't know yet. And if it does, they just may
not be seen because the show airs on Fox.
The YTV Verision will probably have them...
>>>Nope, I am expecting little differences that might make it look worse
than
>>>the original, however.
>>Like? Renames? Consider the intended audience.
>I was actually thinking more along the lines of sup-par acting. It's
>already been reported that every actor for RID records their lines
>individually instead of in a group. This is BAD. It's very hard to have
>a natural and emotion-filled session when the actors can't interact with
>each other. But sure, they're just kids, they don't really need quality
>voice direction, just throw together anything and they'll watch it.
I reserve judgement.
>>Granted; having art on the box is a good thing. THERE IS. It's a nice,
big
>>photoshopped picture of the TOY, as opposed to some twisted inaccurate
>>artist's rendition that often bears little to no resemblance to the toy
in
>>the package.
>Maybe in the days of G1, but the CR art matches the toys in nearly every
>way.
The same art that has the Spychangers with knee and elbow joints?
>>And Tech Specs? Yes, it's nice to have them, period. Fine. But you know
>>what? If a tech spec makes or breaks a toy for someone, they're better
off
>>not having the toy and suffering in their toyless-pettyness.
>You really think it's petty to want a better quality product?
I think it's petty to declare one product inferior AND GO TOYLESS BECAUSE
it lacks some ink on the back of it's package.
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>We. Have. F'n. Boxart. It's a nice, big, truthful-looking photoshopped toy
>picture.
Which sucks ass compared to the beautiful rendered CR art... Even if you
prefer toy pictures, wouldn't you rather have BOTH?
>Um...
>Mach Alert: No disobeying the rules.
>Prowl: You can run but you can't hide!
>
>Wildride: Manly men are quiet when entering combat.
>X-Brawn: Strength wins!
>
>Speedbreaker: Explosive Speed, GO!
>Sideburn: Speed limit? What speed limit?
>
>Rest of ATT, make up your own minds.
Hmm, these don't match the ones I'm looking at. Where did you get them
from?
>I didn't say dumb down, I said make it fun. There's a big difference.
>**coughcoughDigimoncoughcough**
Why not try and make it fun without dumbing it down?
>I agree. I prefer original names, unless the older character was totally
>worthless (no one complains about Rev... ), but I'm not crying. There is
>the age-old 'copyright' argument that I'll not go into... and there's the
>'invoke nostalgia' argument. If the new characters fit the names, fine...
>but reuses are NOT the sin you're making them out to be.
Hmm, that's still a matter of opinion... Takara's names might not always
be great, but at least they're all original...
>What about the Japanese fans? How do they feel about missing out on Beast
>Machines' Mirage, Jetstorms, Tank -or/Drone, Spystreak...
well, it's much easier for them to get them over here than it is for us to
get Japanese toys. You'll be hard-pressed to find a mall or shopping
center in Japan that doesn't have some toy store carrying US toys. And it
still hasn't been confirmed that Japan won't be getting BM. Considering
we only just got the last of the BM toys (and may still be getting one or
two me, at least I hope we get them), BM may indeed be showing up very
soon. Japan has gotten every animated TF show we've gotten so far, no
matter how bad BM is, I'm betting they will get it in some way.
>In other words: Better to have a half-ass job now than wait for the full
>ass job.
If you say so... I'm still fairly certain I'm not the only one who would
rather have Brave Max releasd over here (even if he doesn't include all
the Fort Max parts, he still has all of the important parts and a better
paint job) than not at all, and I know a couple youngins who would love to
have a big TFing city, even if he doesn't have a big gun.
Irrellius King of the Potato People
HAVE to remold Scourge's discs...and if they do, then Hasbro Cares. >>
Unless the Decep symbol is for Combatrons only, and the Anti-Cybertron symbol
is Scourges personal crest. How will they reconcile this in the show? Will they
edit over the Anti-Cybertron symbols with Decep?
When they restore the Onslaught Diaclone launcher ability, I'll be impressed.
Al-
http://www.Angelfire.com/mi2/Ob1kenoby/
"I wish i had to defend the earth from the darkness."-TrypticonX
"I think hasbro was a fan character."-TrypticonX
"You tried your hardest, and falied miserably. The lesson is, never try"-Homer
Simpson
Citizen V
>>We. Have. F'n. Boxart. It's a nice, big, truthful-looking photoshopped
toy
>>picture.
>Which sucks ass compared to the beautiful rendered CR art... Even if you
>prefer toy pictures, wouldn't you rather have BOTH?
I'd rather have both. But I'm happy as is, because 'as is' doesn't LIE.
>>Um...
>>Mach Alert: No disobeying the rules.
>>Prowl: You can run but you can't hide!
>>Wildride: Manly men are quiet when entering combat.
>>X-Brawn: Strength wins!
>>Speedbreaker: Explosive Speed, GO!
>>Sideburn: Speed limit? What speed limit?
>>Rest of ATT, make up your own minds.
>Hmm, these don't match the ones I'm looking at. Where did you get them
>from?
The friend of mine who went to Japan and got me my SFC and JRX. I showed
him the catalog and he translated for me... How inaccurate are they?
>>I didn't say dumb down, I said make it fun. There's a big difference.
>>**coughcoughDigimoncoughcough**
>Why not try and make it fun without dumbing it down?
I made no mention to dumbing down, I made reference to making it juvenile.
There is a difference. Digimon is fun (juvenile, if you will) and it's not
been dumbed down. I like it just fine, and I hope RiD will set the bar
higher when it finally premieres.
>>I agree. I prefer original names, unless the older character was totally
>>worthless (no one complains about Rev... ), but I'm not crying. There is
>>the age-old 'copyright' argument that I'll not go into... and there's the
>>'invoke nostalgia' argument. If the new characters fit the names, fine...
>>but reuses are NOT the sin you're making them out to be.
>Hmm, that's still a matter of opinion... Takara's names might not always
>be great, but at least they're all original...
Megatron, BW.
Starscream, Galvatron, Thrust, Dirge, Starscream: BWII.
There's probably more, but I'm tired.
>>What about the Japanese fans? How do they feel about missing out on Beast
>>Machines' Mirage, Jetstorms, Tank -or/Drone, Spystreak...
>well, it's much easier for them to get them over here than it is for us to
>get Japanese toys. You'll be hard-pressed to find a mall or shopping
>center in Japan that doesn't have some toy store carrying US toys. And it
>still hasn't been confirmed that Japan won't be getting BM. Considering
>we only just got the last of the BM toys (and may still be getting one or
>two me, at least I hope we get them), BM may indeed be showing up very
>soon. Japan has gotten every animated TF show we've gotten so far, no
>matter how bad BM is, I'm betting they will get it in some way.
CR is/was also available, with most likely equivalent frequency... the US
is bigger, that's all...
>>In other words: Better to have a half-ass job now than wait for the full
>>ass job.
>If you say so...
I'm not. You did.
>I'm still fairly certain I'm not the only one who would
>rather have Brave Max releasd over here (even if he doesn't include all
>the Fort Max parts, he still has all of the important parts and a better
>paint job) than not at all, and I know a couple youngins who would love to
>have a big TFing city, even if he doesn't have a big gun.
I'd love to have Brave Max here, guns or no guns. But given a choice, I'd
wait for a Gun-including version... as I am right now. And it's still
stingy, cheap and... vomitous that Takara made the guns for a contest
exclusive version and omitted them from the mass-market molding.
--
Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, the V stands for
Vigilant...
Paul Segal
>From: jsd...@pitt.edu (JORDAN L DERBER)
>Date: 8/27/01 12:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9mch7n$72d$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
>
>In article <nvji7.482$Ov2....@ord-read.news.verio.net>,
>Walkerton <wii...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> And filling in headlights and taillights.
>>
>>To avoid legal issues. Those shitheads.
>
>I'm still not convinced that this is the only reason why the lights were
>filled in.
>
What do YOU think would be Hasbro's reason for doing that? They've otherwise
been adding to the CR toys before RiD release, why would they take away from
this one?
Paul Segal, posting from AOL, because of Google being annoying.
Email: aster...@yahoo.com ICQ: 24024819 AIM: asterphage
I am an Old Skool Robot.
I am Samurized For Your Protection
Walkerton
> be great, but at least they're all original...
Convoy. Dirge. Thrust. Skywarp.
--David
www.itswalky.com
JORDAN L DERBER
Zobovor <zob...@aol.com> wrote:
>Yeah, where do they get off putting the Decepticon symbol on toys that used to
>be Decepticon toys, and having the nerve to market and sell them as
>Decepticons? I mean, really!
I don't have a problem with calling them Decepticons (well, not too much).
I do have a problem with how the G1 Decepticon symbol looks on the
Combatrons. The Combatron insignia looks much better on them.
>
>(Looks at the Machine Wars box art.)
>
>If you say so.
The basics weren't anything special, but it was something.
>When did he say "dumb"? He didn't. He said "juvenile." As in, relating to
>young people. Who are, last time I checked, the target audience for the toy
>line and cartoon series.
In the instance of the RID quotes, juvenile=dumbed down.
>Well, it's true, regardless of whether you understand it or not. They did the
>same thing to Artfire/Hotshot back when he was originally released for G2,
>altering the Porsche headlights. As for the other toys, it's possible Hasbro
>already had licensing agreements with those companies regarding other toy
>lines, or perhaps Mercedes was asking for more money for the right to use their
>vehicle's likeness than Hasbro was willing to pay.
I'm sure they did have a reason for doing it, I never argued that they
didn't. It still makes the toy look worse than the CR version.
>You complain about the miserable failure that was Supreme Cheetor (mind, the
>most popular U.S. Transformers character in history, the character who got more
>toys than Optimus Prime) and then you complain that Hasbro isn't going to
>release an even *more* expensive toy, that doesn't even *do* anything
>electronic or gimmicky, based on a character they haven't even *heard* of?
There wasn't a smaller version of BM to begin with as there was with
Cheetor. And I'd say BM beats out Cheetor in the gimmick department. Of
course it would be better to have something different (something that
hadn't been seen in over a decade, anyways) than another Cheetor. And I
REALLY don't think that Cheetor having that many toys makes him more
popular than Optimus Prime, even if you only compare kids of today to kids
in the 80's...
>
>Frankly, it looks to me like you're just looking for an excuse to bash Hasbro
>and praise Takara.
Not quite. I only want the US to have as good quality product as Japan.
Paul Segal
>already been reported that every actor for RID records their lines
>individually instead of in a group. This is BAD. It's very hard to have
>a natural and emotion-filled session when the actors can't interact with
>each other. But sure, they're just kids, they don't really need quality
>voice direction, just throw together anything and they'll watch it.
>
I'm just speaking from memories of specials I've seen on TV (mainly HBO First
Looks) about the making of animated films, but it seems to me like voice actors
almost always record their lines individually.
This seems rather useful, since they can have one actor do a line as many times
as necessary without interrupting the other actors. It's probably necessary
when dubbing animation to have the voice actors record seperately, because they
have to fit every line to a specific length of mouth-movement.
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>That it means the company mishandled the KIDS, who pay the bills...
They're still selling transforming toys, just not THE Transformers.
>The same art that has the Spychangers with knee and elbow joints?
Hmm, that's true, but they're the exeption to the rule. You don't have
the complete re-design of how the toy looks in real life compared to some
of the G1 art. For the other CR toys, one can pose them just like they're
pictured in the art.
>I think it's petty to declare one product inferior AND GO TOYLESS BECAUSE
>it lacks some ink on the back of it's package.
Whoa, who said anything about that? Inferior yes, but I'm not gonna go
toyless. But I pay good money for my toys, and if I think they can be
improved in some way, then I'm not gonna keep it to myself...
JORDAN L DERBER
Walkerton <wii...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Convoy. Dirge. Thrust. Skywarp.
I was referring to CR actually, should have made that more clear. And
even if you do take those names into account (and the other few like
Starscream), it's a small list compared to Hasbro's...
Paul Segal
Message-id: <9mcht4$732$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
>
>In article <Qkji7.753$ua.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
>Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>And Tech Specs? Yes, it's nice to have them, period. Fine. But you know
>>what? If a tech spec makes or breaks a toy for someone, they're better off
>>not having the toy and suffering in their toyless-pettyness.
>
>You really think it's petty to want a better quality product?
Personally, I think it's petty to complain about tech specs, packaging and
catalogs, things that basically amount to text and pictures, ink and paper,
when Hasbro is consistently making improvements and additions to the toys
themselves.
The product is not the package. It is not the package art, tech specs, or
catalog. The product is the TOYS, and Hasbro is giving us a better quality
product by improving the toys.
JORDAN L DERBER
Paul Segal <jask...@aol.com> wrote:
>I'm just speaking from memories of specials I've seen on TV (mainly HBO First
>Looks) about the making of animated films, but it seems to me like voice actors
>almost always record their lines individually.
>
>This seems rather useful, since they can have one actor do a line as many times
>as necessary without interrupting the other actors. It's probably necessary
>when dubbing animation to have the voice actors record seperately, because they
>have to fit every line to a specific length of mouth-movement.
Hmm, it may indeed be useful, but it's not how it's done in Japan and
it's not how BW was done. BW had excellent voice acting and direction.
Put the same actors in their own booth and the quality will suffer.
(Believe it or not, the same studio who did BW is one of the most hated
when it comes to anime dubs. The emotion just isn't there, even though
it's the same people.) As for Japan, the animation is produced before the
voices are recorded, so mouth-movements and being able to say a line
within a finite amount of time is still a factor, yet the average quality
of voice acting there is leagues above the US.
JORDAN L DERBER
Paul Segal <jask...@aol.com> wrote:
>Personally, I think it's petty to complain about tech specs, packaging and
>catalogs, things that basically amount to text and pictures, ink and paper,
>when Hasbro is consistently making improvements and additions to the toys
>themselves.
>
>The product is not the package. It is not the package art, tech specs, or
>catalog. The product is the TOYS, and Hasbro is giving us a better quality
>product by improving the toys.
Besides the insignias (which is a matter of opinion, on some of the toys
they look terrible IMO) and lights on Scourge (reportedly), how so? I've
heard numerous reports of the plastic being cheaper, not to mention the
limiting mold changes... The Spychanger's paint jobs might look a little
better, but they lack the rub-signs...
Zobovor
>I don't have a problem with calling them Decepticons (well, not too
>much). I do have a problem with how the G1 Decepticon symbol looks
>on the Combatrons. The Combatron insignia looks much better on
>them.
I can't even *see* the Combatron symbol. It's like the trick picture of either
a candlestick or two faces staring at one another, except I've been looking at
the candlestick since 1992 and have a *lot* of trouble seeing it any other way.
Sometimes I can trick my mind into actually interpreting the upside-down G2
symbol as a separate and distinct face--it sort of looks like a sad little
Megatron.
>>(Looks at the Machine Wars box art.)
>>
>>If you say so.
>
>The basics weren't anything special, but it was something.
The Basics? Oh, you mean the box art for Prowl and Mirage, which was a
repainted and stripped down version of G2 Laser Rod Jolt, who isn't built
anything like Prowl/Mirage, has a face mask and visor instead of eyes and a
face, and is holding a nonexistent sword menacingly above his head?
What was the point of the box art, anyway? Was it to make a rather blocky and
disappointing toy look cool? Was it to advertise what the toy looked like in
its transformed mode? In my experience, Transformers have been so
exceptionally cool lately that you can't *make* box art that makes them look
cooler than they already do. The box art for toys like Torca or TM2 Cheetor
and Tigerhawk and Optimal Optimus made the toys look like complete crap. I
didn't *get* Torca for the longest time because I thought his box art made him
look like a deformed lobster.
If you're going to advertise a toy, why not at least do it justice and sell it
with an actual photo *of* that toy, instead of creating some fantasy version of
it that does not accurately represent the product? Why spend the money to
paint inaccurate artwork of the toy when that money could instead be applied to
improving the product line directly? (Hasbro said once at BotCon '94 that the
ten cents it cost them per toy to include a sheet of consumer-applied stickers
or an Autobot symbol could instead be applied to a spring-loaded gimmick.
Given the choice, which would you rather have?)
>I'm sure they did have a reason for doing it, I never argued that they
>didn't. It still makes the toy look worse than the CR version.
Well, I think the in-your-face Autobot symbols stamped on the toys more than
makes up for whether their tail lights or whatever are painted.
>There wasn't a smaller version of BM to begin with as there was with
>Cheetor.
So what? There was a smaller version of Jetstorm in the Beast Machines line,
and I don't see him still lingering on the pegs.
>And I'd say BM beats out Cheetor in the gimmick department.
Well, let's see. Cheetor lights up and snarls and launches missiles and makes
laser sounds. Brave Maximus... uh, has an elevator.
>And I REALLY don't think that Cheetor having that many toys makes
>him more popular than Optimus Prime, even if you only compare kids
>of today to kids in the 80's...
This sounds like a semantics argument to me. Cheetor was the mascot for almost
the entire Beast Machines toy line. The only box Prime got to be plastered all
over was his own. Cheetor got more toys than Prime and appeared in more
episodes. If that doesn't make him more popular, then what does? (I will say
that at least *some* of Cheetor's toy releases were attempts at making up for
poor availability. With tongue firmly in cheek, though, one can't help but
wonder why there was never a FOX Kids! Prime...)
>>Frankly, it looks to me like you're just looking for an excuse to bash
>>Hasbro and praise Takara.
>
>Not quite. I only want the US to have as good quality product as
>Japan.
Which are you more concerned with--the product, or the presentation? When it
comes right down to it, except for a few incredibly minor details that kids
don't know about and wouldn't give a crap about if they did, it's the *exact*
same toy line. Kids aren't going to be repulsed by the Combatrons just because
they've got hideous purple Decepticon symbols plastered to them.
--
Zobovor
ZMFTS: Becca liked the Mousey Guy before I kitbashed him.
http://members.aol.com/zobovor/index.html
One Good Logan
-Logan, almost, kind of, getting the hang of crappy google usenet...
JORDAN L DERBER
superspy <sar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Then let me rephrase: Cut the line off from any new continuity and toys,
>and going back to the wallets of adult fans with re-issues and PVC statues
>of G1 characters.
They're responding to market demand (and did so faster when it comes to
the re-releases compared to Hasbro, if they ever get around to them).
>I honestly wouldn't care. I judge a show by it's content, and my opinion
>of it wouldn't be changed by random splashes of CG and incidental music.
Remember Homer talking to Lisa about ice cream in one of the early
episodes of the Simpsons? Asking her if she wouldn't like it better if it
was covered with chocolate fudge, crumbled-up cookie things, etc? This is
what I'm talking about. Little things may not make much of a difference
to you, but they do matter.
>Because Hasbro just inevitably screw things up. Sure.
That's not it. Companies in the US just don't care as much about little
details as they do in Japan. Mabe they're justified, maybe not. All I
know is what I'd prefer if I were a kid. I used to love doing
things like recording my favorite cartoon theme songs onto a tape and
listening to them. To think that one could actually buy the soundtracks
to just about any show in Japan makes me wonder why no one in the US
seems to think that something like music to kid's shows would sell.
That's why the
>series is still around in the States and all Takara's doing is digging up
>old toys.
That's all Hasbro's doing right now... I'll beleive this wonderful new
line that is supposed to come out after RID when I see it...
>More is better, huh? Justify the cost to Hasbro.
You're the one who brought money into this, not me. I don't see how using
already available box art and putting a little more effort into character
bios like they used to is a cost that needs to be justified.
Everyone always says
>that "Adult fans make up 40% of their sales, so blah blah blah, we're so
>damned important!" Fuck that noise, dude. I'd like to see that statistic
>broken down into their franchises. How many adults buy *Transformers*? I
>can assure you that it falls directly into the category of "not many." So
>why should Hasbro spend the money on appealing to them?
I was never referring solely to adults. Kids like stuff like box art and
decent bios, too. I should know, since I was one of them. Hasbro needs
to realize that not all kids are unappreciative of these things. You may
argue that it doesn't really matter as long as the toy is good, but that's
not always true. It doesn't take much effort to make packaging better and
stimulate a child's imagination (and maybe give him an incentive to learn
a few new words), especially in the case of RID.
>Keep up the self-righteous attitude, man. As far as I'm concerned, you're
>putting the "moron" in "Otaku."
Where do you get that I'm being self-righteous? I can understand Japanese
and have most of the original CR toys. I'm not doing this for myself, I
only want the best possible product for the kids and the fans.
JORDAN L DERBER
Zobovor <zob...@aol.com> wrote:
>I can't even *see* the Combatron symbol. It's like the trick picture of either
>a candlestick or two faces staring at one another, except I've been looking at
>the candlestick since 1992 and have a *lot* of trouble seeing it any other way.
> Sometimes I can trick my mind into actually interpreting the upside-down G2
>symbol as a separate and distinct face--it sort of looks like a sad little
>Megatron.
To me, it evokes a kind of evil-mirror-image-Spock-with-a-goatee TF. The
Cobatrons WERE just reprogrammed Cybertrons. Giving them Decepticon
symbols just doesn't feel right (I wasn't too keed on the idea of
reprogramming Maximals into plain old Predacons in BW, either).
>What was the point of the box art, anyway? Was it to make a rather blocky and
>disappointing toy look cool? Was it to advertise what the toy looked like in
>its transformed mode? In my experience, Transformers have been so
>exceptionally cool lately that you can't *make* box art that makes them look
>cooler than they already do. The box art for toys like Torca or TM2 Cheetor
>and Tigerhawk and Optimal Optimus made the toys look like complete crap. I
>didn't *get* Torca for the longest time because I thought his box art made him
>look like a deformed lobster.
Allright, so maybe it isn't always best to have box art, at least when
it's crappy. But that doesn't apply to Japanese box art, and the CR box
art, which Hasbro probably could have liscensed off of Takara for a small
amount.
>If you're going to advertise a toy, why not at least do it justice and sell it
>with an actual photo *of* that toy, instead of creating some fantasy version of
>it that does not accurately represent the product? Why spend the money to
>paint inaccurate artwork of the toy when that money could instead be applied to
>improving the product line directly? (Hasbro said once at BotCon '94 that the
>ten cents it cost them per toy to include a sheet of consumer-applied stickers
>or an Autobot symbol could instead be applied to a spring-loaded gimmick.
>Given the choice, which would you rather have?)
Personally, I'd rather have stickers. As far as gimmicks go, I think
those are one of the best. It lets you customize and add detail to your
TFs.
>Well, I think the in-your-face Autobot symbols stamped on the toys more than
>makes up for whether their tail lights or whatever are painted.
I sort of do, too, but I'd rather have insignias AND unfilled lights
(which I will, if I ever find X-Brawn on clearance so I can switch his
hood with Wildride's).
>So what? There was a smaller version of Jetstorm in the Beast Machines line,
>and I don't see him still lingering on the pegs.
I did for awhile. You don't see too many of the Mega Cheetors around,
either.
>Well, let's see. Cheetor lights up and snarls and launches missiles and makes
>laser sounds. Brave Maximus... uh, has an elevator.
And the Headmaster into a Headmaster. And having the city mode as a
playset for the CR toys. And the cockpit for Plasma (the HM cockpit
gimmick was one of my favoirites when I was little, I was really
disapointed when I bought Sureshot and discovered that the Targetmasters
didn't have it as well). And the hidden guns.
>This sounds like a semantics argument to me. Cheetor was the mascot for almost
>the entire Beast Machines toy line. The only box Prime got to be plastered all
>over was his own. Cheetor got more toys than Prime and appeared in more
>episodes. If that doesn't make him more popular, then what does? (I will say
>that at least *some* of Cheetor's toy releases were attempts at making up for
>poor availability. With tongue firmly in cheek, though, one can't help but
>wonder why there was never a FOX Kids! Prime...)
Optimus Prime is practically a houshold name. Practically anyone who grew
up in the 80s has heard of him. He's been on countless pieces of
merchandise from oral care stations to soap. Perhaps not too many kids
today know about him compared to Cheetor, but that will soon change with
RID. Optimus Prime is immortal. I doubt if many people will care about
Cheetor 5 years from now.
>Which are you more concerned with--the product, or the presentation? When it
>comes right down to it, except for a few incredibly minor details that kids
>don't know about and wouldn't give a crap about if they did, it's the *exact*
>same toy line.
This is the exact generalization that I've been speaking out against all
day. You and Hasbro seem to think it's OK to not give kids all the bells
and whistles that kids in Japan gets because "they don't give a crap."
Sure, nice little extras may not matter to all of them. But it mattered
to me, and I've talked to alot of other people and kids that sem to think
it matters. I think both of you underestimate kids today. Hasbro seemed
to think it mattered back in the 80s, why should kids today be any
different? Even if it doesn't make much of a difference (and it does),
who's to say that Hasbro shouldn't strive to make their packaging better
anyways? Is it OK for them to just be lazy in every aspect of their
product except for the toy itself?
BW Sidecutter
>I don't have a problem with calling them Decepticons (well, not too much).
>I do have a problem with how the G1 Decepticon symbol looks on the
>Combatrons. The Combatron insignia looks much better on them.
It would be nice if someone would quote the link needed to see these...
JORDAN L DERBER
Robert Powers <repo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
> Eh. More like when you have exactly the same toys, there really *isn't*
>much difference.
>
> If any at all.
OK, sure. So why doens't Hasbro do as M Sipher has suggested, and just
sell them in plastic baggies?
JORDAN L DERBER
Zobovor <zob...@aol.com> wrote:
>You know, there is in fact a toy line that had exactly what you're looking for.
> It was called Transformers: Car Robots. I think it was available in Japan.
Beleive me, I've got it. Glad I did. but I want kids and fans in America
to be able to get the same quality stuff I got.
>Hasbro is taking a different approach with RiD when it comes to some aspects.
>So? Me, I like some of the changes they made (Autobot symbols on the toys,
>retooling Optimus Prime's weapon so that it doesn't fire when you don't want it
>to) and I don't care for other changes (no tech specs and instructions for some
>of the toys, sloppy trilingual packaging). Bitching and bitching and bitching
>about it isn't going to change Hasbro's approach in the least, though. They're
>still going to do the things that you don't like, regardless.
Perhaps so, perhaps not. You think it's allright to just be lazy and keep
buying a prodct that could be improved, without trying to point out flaws
so that the companies can try and improve them? If so, then I'm sure
you'll be a happy little consumer loved by all the corporations of the
world. Good for you.
>We already get photos of every toy in the assortment on the back of the
>packages. Kids know which toys are out based on that, and it serves exactly
>the same purpose the catalogs did. Hasbro's also got a web site which,
>presumably, will eventually show the toy line in its entirety (and don't think
>that eight-year-old kids never visit).
Taking the bus to school serves the same purpose as getting a ride with
your dad in his new car, but it's still not as cool.
>Well, then, by that line of reasoning Takara sucks for not releasing the Beast
>Machines toy line and cartoon over there. At least kids could have made up
>their minds for themselves whether they liked it or not, right?
They will probably still have that chance. The BM line is just now
finishing up in the US. BW wasn't brought over to Japan until after it
was done in the US. I'm betting at least the toys will make their way
into Japanese toy stores.
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>I'm still not convinced that this is the only reason why the lights were
>>filled in.
>
>Why else? Because they hate us? Please don't say that...
No, I doubt that. I'm thinking more along the lines of being too cheap to
pay roayalties or something (if they're too cheap on packaging...). I
mean, if royalties for using real car designs for toys cost so much, then why are there so many realistic toy
cars out there? And how does filling in taillights make the design
disimilar enough so that Mercedes doesn't sue them?
>You know what? We got TF: CR. It may have been through places like Image
>Anime or Rugby's, but we got them!
Uh, a small independent store moving a few hundred units does not compare
to a national chain selling thousands...
>>No more so than Hasbro not releasing any of the other Japanese lines means
>>that they hate us.
>
>Dinobots.
That wasn't a whole line.
>Hasbrocollectors.com
Which apprently didn't sell too many toys, otherwise it would still be
around...
>Alex 'Do YOU know what the 'V' stands for?' Amar, and besides, I'd rather
>have BM than Victory...
Hoo, boy... Whatever floats your coat, man... Different tokes for
different folks, I always say...
JORDAN L DERBER
BW Sidecutter <wrait...@aol.com> wrote:
>It would be nice if someone would quote the link needed to see these...
Oops, sorry about that, man. They're at the beginning of the thread,
here's the one Decepticon:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005NCH6.01.PT01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>The truth is never a democracy. If all the newsgroup suddenly, truthfully
>decided that Drill Bit never existed, would that make it true? It's good
>that you and a host of others have their preferences... as long as you
>remember that they are no more than PREFERENCES.
True. But it wouldn't take Hasbro much effort to satisfy these
preferences. It's like asking for a nicer looking kitchen from the person
you're buying a house from. Sure, it doesn't really matter as long as you
can cook your food tehre, but many people would still enjoy it, and those
that don't really care can still cook their food...
>>And we haven't had them since G2. Why start to make decent (well, some of
>>them) mottos for BW and BM, then take a step back in quality?
>
>A-hem. This seems like more of an argument to drop Quotes altogether...
Uh, no I don't know how you inferred that, but that's certainly not what I
want...
>>this kind of stuff? I know I did when I was little.
>
>Different times...
Better times, some would argue. Why should we be worse off today?
>Because outside of a very vocal minority, no one cares?
No one cares, no one cares... That's all I keep hearing. Even if it were
true, IT DOESN'T MAKE IT OK FOR HASBRO TO CUT CORNERS NEEDLESSLY. All
thats needed is a little effort and care, and they have a much better
looking product. Those that do care about such things will be happier with their
purchase. Those that don't care might start noticing things like this and
statr taking more of an interest. Those that continue not caring will
still have their toys.
>Extra accessories that can't be stored in an alternate mode? This isn't
>Takara we're talking about.
Dragon Megs had an extra missile, why is that such a difficult concept for
toys coming out now?
>Yeah, but Japan also got a Fort Max recolor in G1. If Hasbro tried that
>today, we'd scream bloody murder.
I wouldn't. I like recolors, especially ones that include extra
accessories...
>So what? Expensive Glowy Giftset with Unimpressive Sword or unremarkable
>individuals is a choice? If you say it's better to have a choice, remember
>what happened at the end of CR... and how it failed, and WHY.
It didn't fail because Takara failed to bring out a quality product. The
TFs mythos just wasn't as popular in Japan anymore.
>No, in Japan they got 'You'll have to buy a new, expensive giftset to get a
>big hunk of plastic. '
And one could also get it in a drawing, IIRC. And whos to say that every
kid who got the giftset already had both SFC and God Magnus?
>And we MAY YET GET BRAVE MAX. STOP WHINING ABOUT IT.
Whine, me?
>I too would love for you to be prove wrong here, even if all you're going
>on so far is hearsay.
And you're going on something else? ^_^
>On sale.
>
>Fact: His SRP is 9980 Yen. It's printed on his f'n box.
As I've already said, not every store sells it for the SRP, just as in the
US. TRU moves alot of toys in Japan, just as it does here. Pricing
ALL of its toys at less than the SRP does NOT equal a sale.
JORDAN L DERBER
Walkerton <wii...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You know, that's a paltry excuse that can be used for just about anything.
>First of all, they *already* released him in Japan. TWICE. There can
>be arguments made for unreleased molds on those lines, like the unreleased
>GoBots or Supreme Primal...
>
>But we're talking about a toy that's seen mass release on all sides of the
>globe -- and in some places more than once already.
>
>Where is the great urgency to have the same toy over and over and over?
>And why is this demanding our respect and admiration?
Not so much a great urgency, but a desire to have all the TF toys that
Japan gets. We only got the original FM, and it seems there aren't nearly
enough to go around for everyone that wants one.
>I dunno. Maybe a song that doesn't sound totally gay and laughable, like
>"Go boy, Convoy."
I doubt if you'll get it over here, then, unless you think the Digimon or
Power Rangers songs are cool.
M Sipher
news:9mcp78$7ec$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu...
> In article <20010827000023...@mb-mc.aol.com>,
> Zobovor <zob...@aol.com> wrote:
> >You know, there is in fact a toy line that had exactly what you're
looking for.
> > It was called Transformers: Car Robots. I think it was available in
Japan.
>
> Beleive me, I've got it. Glad I did. but I want kids and fans in America
> to be able to get the same quality stuff I got.
You mean the inferior stuff? Gee.
Less paint, more chipping, weaker plastic, faulty gimmicks, loose joints.
Sign me up.
I've GOT CR-quality toys with my Pred 3-pack. Because I'm comparing my
US-packaged Gas Skunk with my J-packaged Gaskunk. They have the SAME flaws.
Loose joints abound. My TM2 Spittor is an infinitely better toy than
Slapper, who walks around with his jaw butt-flap flapping.
And yes, add me to the list of people who's looked at JRXs and founf the
paint applications to be chipped and poorly-applied.
> >We already get photos of every toy in the assortment on the back of the
> >packages. Kids know which toys are out based on that, and it serves
exactly
> >the same purpose the catalogs did. Hasbro's also got a web site which,
> >presumably, will eventually show the toy line in its entirety (and don't
think
> >that eight-year-old kids never visit).
>
> Taking the bus to school serves the same purpose as getting a ride with
> your dad in his new car, but it's still not as cool.
Taking the bus also doesn't COST as much as dad's new car. And, perhaps you
MISSED this minor point, but RiD is a MONEY-SAVING MOVE. THINGS ARE BEING
DONE TO SAVE HASBRO MONEY. Hence the tri-lingual packaging, Photoshopped
toy-pictures opposed to new art, etc. Hasbro's said repeatedly that
packaging is one of the most expensive parts of the line. Therefore it would
stand to REASON that that'd be one of the first things to have cost-saving
measures APPLIED to it.
And why should TFs get preferential treatment over every other Hasbro
toyline? None of THEM get individual catalogs. Haven't for years, even the
lines that sell better than TFs.
> >Well, then, by that line of reasoning Takara sucks for not releasing the
Beast
> >Machines toy line and cartoon over there. At least kids could have made
up
> >their minds for themselves whether they liked it or not, right?
>
> They will probably still have that chance. The BM line is just now
> finishing up in the US. BW wasn't brought over to Japan until after it
> was done in the US.
... Nnnnnno, BW was only "done" in the US a few months ago. Takara brought
it over roughly a year into its US run, and why? Because HASBRO HAD A
SUCCESSFUL TOYLINE GOING. That's it. Takara reportedly had ZERO interest in
BW until it turned Hasbro a tidy profit.
> I'm betting at least the toys will make their way
> into Japanese toy stores.
Import stores, maybe. And frankly, that whole "BW in US packaging in
Japanese TRUs" is nothing more than import-store-sales on a larger scale.
Takara and Hasbro had nothing to do with it... just TRU making money off
stock it had sitting around.
As part of the normal retail TF line in Japan? Highly doubtful. With
Takara's raging G1 boner, do you REALLY think they'll release BM there? And
everything I'm hearing (at least, from reliable people I trust) points
towards Hasbro once again taking the reins as to the toyline's direction
worldwide, since the Hasbro-run lines have been the only ones that were
really successful in Japan. Plus I imagine like Hasbro they're very tired of
listening to "why do THEY get the better stuff?!".
M "Of Course, The Trick Is, The Japanese Fans Are Right" Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions - home of the productions of King Weasel!
Transformers, RockMan, original art, the solutions to all life's problems
and other crap!
http://members.fortunecity.com/msipher
Home of That Big Transformers Variations List and MegaMan/RockMan Toy &
Merchandise Archive!
M Sipher
> In article <slrn9ojhue....@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>,
> Robert Powers <repo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
> > Eh. More like when you have exactly the same toys, there really
*isn't*
> >much difference.
> >
> > If any at all.
>
> OK, sure. So why doens't Hasbro do as M Sipher has suggested, and just
> sell them in plastic baggies?
I suggested Hasbro sell them in plastic baggies? Gee. I'm glad you told me I
did.
Because I thought the "plastic baggies" remark was in reference to BOTCON
EXCLUSIVE TOYS as a way of reducing the very high cost of those items,
seeing as 3H has packaged the toys like that before.
Or as a humorous aside, as in "Hell, I'd buy them in plastic baggies so long
as the toys are good".
The thing is, in the latter example, that is what is technically known as a
JOKE. A HUMOROUS EXAGGERATION. As in I didn't for one nanosecond think that
it would be logical, desirable, or profitable for Hasbro to take that course
of action.
M "Mind, I'd Figure Something Like That Would Be Pretty Damn Obvious..."
Zobovor
>Giving them Decepticon symbols just doesn't feel right (I wasn't too
>keed on the idea of reprogramming Maximals into plain old Predacons
>in BW, either).
I can appreciate where you're coming from, though the Cybertrons in the
Japanese cartoons never actually *used* the G2 Autobot symbol in the first
place, did they? Still, I would actually have been happy if they'd kept the
Combatron symbol intact, or even turned it rightside-up. (Does Scourge act as
their leader in the show? It could be his face. Actually, that's a good
argument for not changing the launching discs, right there.)
>Allright, so maybe it isn't always best to have box art, at least when
>it's crappy. But that doesn't apply to Japanese box art, and the CR
>box art, which Hasbro probably could have liscensed off of Takara for a
>small amount.
Actually, that is true. It already existed, so there was little reason *not*
to use it. Heck, considering the lingering popularity of trading/game cards,
I'm surprised they didn't take that approach.
>>Hasbro said once at BotCon '94 that the ten cents it cost them per
>>toy to include a sheet of consumer-applied stickers or an Autobot
>>symbol could instead be applied to a spring-loaded gimmick. Given
>>the choice, which would you rather have?)
>
>Personally, I'd rather have stickers. As far as gimmicks go, I think
>those are one of the best.
Hmm. Are you still keeping the kids' interests in mind, here? I miss the
stickers myself, but I suspect that most kids nowadays prefer that their toys
actually *do* something. The ability to transform, in and of itself, really
isn't a viable marketing gimmick any more. And there is a *lot* of competition
out there for gimmick-laden toys. Just about every action figure on the market
today launches or squirts or jumps or something.
>I sort of do, too, but I'd rather have insignias AND unfilled lights
>(which I will, if I ever find X-Brawn on clearance so I can switch his
>hood with Wildride's).
Heh. Not a bad idea. :)
>>Well, let's see. Cheetor lights up and snarls and launches missiles
>>and makes laser sounds. Brave Maximus... uh, has an elevator.
>
>And the Headmaster into a Headmaster. And having the city mode as
>a playset for the CR toys. And the cockpit for Plasma (the HM cockpit
>gimmick was one of my favoirites when I was little, I was really
>disapointed when I bought Sureshot and discovered that the
>Targetmasters didn't have it as well). And the hidden guns.
Those are all very cool, and the Headmaster gimmick might be a bit of a novelty
to contemporary kids, but everything else doesn't strike me as a major selling
point. They're features of the toy, but they don't stand out as gimmicks in
that they're not spring-loaded or battery-operated. Kids demand a lot more
from their toys these days.
I do think that Brave Max would be marketed best as a playset, especially if
Hasbro played up his compatibility with the Spychangers and made sure to
demonstrate all the launching ramps and things somewhere on the packaging and
in the commercials. I think Max has the potential for a Christmas item, but
they would have to *heavily* advertise him on television (when I was a kid, my
Christmas lists consisted almost exclusively of stuff I saw on TV) and I think
he'd have to be $40.00 or $50.00 at most.
I also think that he would greatly benefit from an electronics package, but I'm
not sure how they could incorporate that into the toy without gutting one of
his existing gimmicks.
>Optimus Prime is immortal. I doubt if many people will care about
>Cheetor 5 years from now.
Well, let's not lose track of things here. The reason I cited Cheetor was to
demonstrate that even a gimmick-laden toy of a very popular character has the
potential to flop. Brave Maximus has that potential too, since he's even more
expensive and doesn't have the show-recognition buying power that Cheetor did.
>Hasbro seemed to think it mattered back in the 80s, why should kids
>today be any different?
Kids today are a *lot* different! They're spending money on video games and
razor scooters and trading cards in addition to toys, and are bombarded with
fierce competition in the form of aggressive advertising campaigns from other
companies. In a sense, it was a lot *easier* to sell toys in 1984 than it is
now, particularly during the Big Robot Craze.
Keep in mind, too, that in its inception the Transformers line was a very new
concept, so Hasbro was probably concerned a lot more with tarting up the
presentation in order to maximize its appeal to both buyers and retailers.
People *know* what the Transformers concept is about now; it's proven its
staying power, so there isn't as much of an urgent need to make it look all
pretty.
It's not like they're just pulling these cost-cutting decisions out of a hat,
either. During the G2 run, they polled kids and found that a lot of them
couldn't tell the Autobot from the Decepticon symbol, or even knew what they
symbolized, so they stopped printing them on the toys. No sense spending the
money if it was meaningless to their target audience. It's possible they made
similar discoveries when it came to the box art or the toy catalogs.
>Is it OK for them to just be lazy in every aspect of their product except
>for the toy itself?
I don't think they're being lazy. I think Hasbro wants very much for their toy
lines to be top sellers. I also think that one of the reasons Hasbro opted to
import RiD was so they could sell a lot of toys which were already designed and
created for them, while gathering their strength for 2002. They're already
saving money by importing Car Robots, so it doesn't seem financially sound to
blow those savings on comparatively frivolous things like box art.
I think it's a strong possibility that all this money Hasbro's saving is going
to go into the 2002 line. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the trilingual
packaging went away next year. We might not get individual box art again, but
I think the tech specs will make a full return as well. I'm thinking that once
RiD has completed its run, Hasbro *will* put forth a strong effort to push
Transformers again rather than simply riding on Takara's coattails. (Sure,
there's that Episode II thing, but I don't think that's going to be as massive
a merchandising bonanza/blunder as Episode I was. I don't think Episode II
will completely dominate the marketplace.)
I agree that it would be pretty lazy of Hasbro to take this half-hearted
approach *all* the time, but for now I find their approach to RiD to be within
the margins of acceptability.
Sky Shadow
> And why should TFs get preferential treatment over every other Hasbro
> toyline? None of THEM get individual catalogs. Haven't for years, even the
> lines that sell better than TFs.
It's not a matter of preferential treatment, it's sensible marketing.
Personally, I think the catalogues were invaluable selling tools, looking at
all the available Transformers made us happy as kids, and surely a happy
clientele is less likely to be swayed by the next big thing. The catalogues
were one of the greatest things about G1 Transformers, and when I buy a
Japanese TF, I still love the paperwork, even now. We know the kids don't
frequent ATT, so they lack the knowledge of the toys available that we had.
When someone told me there was a Unicron toy or a Destructicon called
Skullcrusher, I could fob it off as a rumour rather than believe the
possibility and ask my parents if I could please have a Unicron toy for
Christmas. Before I found Transfandom again, I actually thought Tigatron
(whom I assumed was spelled Tigertron) was possibly a chase version of
Cheetor. He and the Deluxes of his period were actually never released in
Australia, but I assumed that I just hadn't found the rare chase Cheetor.
Had I a catalogue, rather than the Tigatron-lacking backs of packaging of
the time (but I do like the backings, don't get me wrong) I would have
realised that he was just a recolour and not let my (still child-like)
imagination run wild.
Sky Shadow.
--
"WIZE MODERATER: Choose your weapon!
Sky Shadow wanders up and down the table for a second, and finally picks up
a small tube of lipstick."
(From *Brian Kilby vs. Sky Shadow*, by Dude Winchester).
M Sipher
> In article <n9ji7.751$ua.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
> Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >Nope. They went for a different style and in that respect, they
succeeded.
> >Shadows everywhere...
>
> You tell me to stick to the facts, but you keep giving me your own
> opinions... I can tell from the cheap "morphing" transformations that
> there wasn't as much work put into the animation in BM as it was in BW.
Wrongo.
Having spent a half-dozen years of my life working daily with CGI artists,
and upon rewatching various episodes from both series, the animation of BM
far outshines the animation in BW. The "flash-and-swap" transformations of
the Maximals in BM is NO DIFFERENT from the "twist-then-swap"
transformations of several of the early BW characters.
You're judging the ENTIRE SERIES by a STOCK ANIMATION. Wow.
BM's animation puts BW to shame. The charcaters move more realistically,
more life-like, the expressions are better, the physics of their movements
are better-done. There's no floating-feet walking or phasing through solid
objects. When Rattrap bends at the neck in beast mode, the flesh moves like
real flesh should.
> >Well, it's a popular character, BIG and has loads of gimmicks. I will
> >readily admit it was overpriced and it was a mistake to also market the
> >Mega version alongside it, but taken on it's own, it's a fine toy.
>
> Hmm, I disagree. It's a big staand-up transforming clunky big yellow
> piece of plastic.
And Brave Max is a big stand-up clunky big hideously mulitcolored piece of
plastic minus the cool gimmicks like lights, sounds, or firing missiles,
and, in the J-version's case at least, several accessories that Takara
CLEARLY HAD THE WORKING MOLDS TO. And if/when he comes out here, he'll
probably cost MORE than Supreetor.
> >Oh, and judging by what I've seen at the local stores, a LOT of parents.
>
> Hmm, can't be that many considering how many Cheetors I see on
> clearance...
They shipped tons. He moved briskly. They just shipped too many.
> >Appealing is fine... but see, it doesn't matter how many people watch the
> >show.
>
> How can you say that? It's the main advertisement for the toys. Why
> should it be inferior in any way to the original Japanese show?
And why EXACTLY will RiD be "inferior"? Go on. Let's hear it. Because it'll
lack a theme song that's IN JAPANESE when marketed to a
NON-JAPANESE-SPEAKING audience?
> >I'll readily admit that the show COULD play a part in bringing the kids
in,
> >but I think that more often than not, a toy will lead to a show, and not
> >the other way around.
>
> A show still sells a lot of toys.
Explain why RiD is moving faster than Jesse Helms in Harlem, then.
> >The toys aren't exactly the same, though. The RiD ones... are mostly
> >better.
>
> Only the insignias. Otherwise, the mold changes and change in plastic
> quality make them slightly inferior.
The mold changes that allow the toy gimmicks to work properly? The ones that
help the missiles fit within safety-laws in the ONE case where they've been
altered?
M "And As For Plastic Quality, Frankly I Can't Tell The Difference. These
Spychangers Hold Up Just AS Well As The G2 Gobots I've Got, And Those Are
STURDY Little Bastards" Sipher
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Name a Hasbro TF toy from the year 2000/2001 with equivalent problems,
>assuming any exist.
I've heard of loose limbs on OP and several other RID toys.
>We don't know what Hasbro will do yet... It's too early in the game.
If they're going tohandle RID anything like the did BW and BM, advertising
other than the show itself is going to be practically nonexistant.
It is
>sad they haven't gotten anything out yet, but the toys are apparently
>selling Really Damn Well, and as such, advertising isn't really a top
>concern yet.
Heh, I think for a corporation, advertising is ALWYAYS a top concern...
Anything that will get you more sales.
>Debatable... for someone more knowledgeable than I. I will argue that the
>shadows were no doubt very time-consuming, however, and indicative of
>effort being put in... maybe not the right places, but still there.
I didn't even notice them that much... Shadows isn't exactly something
I'd make sure was animated well instead of everything else if I were the
head of an animation studio...
>
>Oh, and I said they succeeded at having BM have a different artistic style
>than BW. If that's not a fact, I don't know what is.
Heh, I think you need to look up fact again. ^_^ you might think they
suceeded, but to other people it might be just another crappy CGI show.
>Of a popular character and with loads of gimmicks. The mega version was a
>mistake...
I much prefer it to the Supreme. I just don't see a kid having much fun
with Cheetor if all of his other Maximals are micro-sized in comparison...
>Yes, but a toyline without a show could still succeed dramatically.
And a show could garner even more success, and more importantly, more
money.
>That fulfill the box art role.
Uh, no it doesn't. Not in my opinion. Box art is supposed to be an
artist's rendering of something in real life, it gives something of a
magical quality to its real life counterpart, or gives life to something
that has none. Why do you think some people still buy paintings and not
photographs, or why kids still like to draw and watch cartoons? Not
everything can be perfectly articulated with a simple (or even
photoshopped) photograph.
>Granted. And I think the lack of RiD specs is a mistake, but NOT a fatal
>one, as you are putting forth.
Never said it was fatal. Just said it was an advantage that CR has over
RID.
>Um... in Japan, Gigatron is 2980 Yen, which is about $26... and here, he's
>$20 and change. It IS a good deal... would you pay $6 extra plus taxes for
>some nice paper?
Putting aside the fact that Gigatron could be bought at any TRU for less
than that, the average standards of living in Japan are higher. Things
cost more, but the average person makes more money so they can afford
Japan's inflated prices.
>Yeah... and the RiD stuff is STILL leagues better than a whole lot of other
>stuff. It could be better. Fine. But it's not inherently inferior to
>Takara's stuff.
Yes, it is. Do I need to repeat myself yet again? You've already
admitted that a lack of Tech Specs is a mistake. While things like this
may not be as big a deal to everyone as it is to me, it's still something
RID lacks but CR does not. Likewise, The CR toys lacking the insignias is an
inferior quality compared to RID. Not that that makes up for itIMO ,
which is what I said in my original post in this thread...
>Change in plastic quality? Where?
Can't confirm this myself as I haven't had the chance to compare all of
the RID toys to their CR counterparts, but I've heard several people
mention a drop in quality.
>And some mold changes are good... Fire Convoy was brought up, and I'll have
Doesn't he have holes filled in so that he can't hold UM's gun or
something?
Zobovor
>>Extra accessories that can't be stored in an alternate mode? This isn't
>>Takara we're talking about.
>
>Dragon Megs had an extra missile, why is that such a difficult concept
>for toys coming out now?
Actually, all of his missiles could be stores. One in each wing, and the third
one in either his mouth or his robot-mode head launcher.
The point still stands, though, since Hasbro's selling the Spychangers again,
making them the first U.S. Transformers toys incapable of storing their weapons
in their transformed mode since... well, since the Go-Bots originally came out
in 1995. :)
Zobovor
>OK, sure. So why doens't Hasbro do as M Sipher has suggested, and
>just sell them in plastic baggies?
I'm sure they would do that in a heartbeat, if they didn't have to worry about
retailers being concerned about attractive packaging, and competition from the
dozens of other toy lines that the Transformers will be quite literally stacked
up against.
That said, I think the aesthetics of the RiD packaging are nothing short of
spectacular. A prominent, classy logo, complete with a large Autobot or
Predacon symbol; unconventional, eye-catching, landscape-oriented figure cards
for the Deluxes; a clear deliniation of transformation difficulty much easier
to decipher than previous Transformers lines; and a clear window or bubble that
makes it easy to look at the toy itself.
Zobovor... now, if there were a way to sell the toys without having to worry
about retail presentation or competition, like, say, at a Transformers toy
convention...
M Sipher
news:9pki7.791$ua.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> JORDAN L DERBER wrote in message
> <9mcjci$75e$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>...
> >Hmm, that's still a matter of opinion... Takara's names might not always
> >be great, but at least they're all original...
>
> Megatron, BW.
Nobody FORCED Takara to call him Megatron, or the 'raptor Dinobot, or the
bee Buzzsaw, or the ant Inferno (twice, even... they CHANGED Transmetal
Scavenger's name to Inferno!) or the Fuzor Silverbolt, or the crab
Rampage... considering that other US names changed...
> Starscream, Galvatron, Thrust, Dirge, Starscream: BWII.
Diver (formerly the Pretender known as Waverider), Skywarp.
BWNeo brought us Dead End, Hardhead, Sling (the Aerialbot was Sling in
Japan, not Slingshot), Hydra.
And, of course, more Convoys, though Lio, Big and Fire are more variants
than anything else.... though that also applies to God Magnus and the
astoundingly-unimaginatively-named Black Convoy.
M "LioJunior May Be Stupid, But It Sure As Hell Beats 'JuniorConvoy', Which
Is What I'd Exepct..." Sipher
JORDAN L DERBER
M Sipher <msi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Beleive me, I've got it. Glad I did. but I want kids and fans in America
>> to be able to get the same quality stuff I got.
>
>You mean the inferior stuff? Gee.
>
>Less paint, more chipping, weaker plastic, faulty gimmicks, loose joints.
>Sign me up.
If you say so. I've never seen any of this myself, so I can only assume
I've got one from the fixed batches.
>I've GOT CR-quality toys with my Pred 3-pack. Because I'm comparing my
>US-packaged Gas Skunk with my J-packaged Gaskunk. They have the SAME flaws.
>Loose joints abound. My TM2 Spittor is an infinitely better toy than
>Slapper, who walks around with his jaw butt-flap flapping.
>
>And yes, add me to the list of people who's looked at JRXs and founf the
>paint applications to be chipped and poorly-applied.
Well, maybe if you'd actually buy one yourself, you might get a nice one,
like I did.
>Taking the bus also doesn't COST as much as dad's new car.
But if the kid across the street gets to do it, wouldn't you want to, too?
And, perhaps you
>MISSED this minor point, but RiD is a MONEY-SAVING MOVE. THINGS ARE BEING
>DONE TO SAVE HASBRO MONEY. Hence the tri-lingual packaging, Photoshopped
>toy-pictures opposed to new art, etc. Hasbro's said repeatedly that
>packaging is one of the most expensive parts of the line. Therefore it would
>stand to REASON that that'd be one of the first things to have cost-saving
>measures APPLIED to it.
The art was ALREADY MADE. Unless Takara wanted a fortune for it (which
isn't the case, from what I've heard), Hasbro could have gotten it easily.
And I doubt if no one at Hasbro is capable of writing a decent bio.
They had some good ones for BM.
>And why should TFs get preferential treatment over every other Hasbro
>toyline? None of THEM get individual catalogs. Haven't for years, even the
>lines that sell better than TFs.
Why should it get preferential treatment in Japan, then?
>... Nnnnnno, BW was only "done" in the US a few months ago.
Uh, what? Other than recolors, there haven't been any new BW toys in the
US for awhile...
Takara brought
>it over roughly a year into its US run,
They brought the first line of toys over after the first year was done in
the US. Then they waited until after the next two years were done, and
they started Metals.
>Import stores, maybe. And frankly, that whole "BW in US packaging in
>Japanese TRUs" is nothing more than import-store-sales on a larger scale.
>Takara and Hasbro had nothing to do with it... just TRU making money off
>stock it had sitting around.
A chain store in Japan can't import toys like that without permission,
IIRC. And it IS different from import stores in the US. Kids don't
frwquent import stores like they do TRUs...
>As part of the normal retail TF line in Japan? Highly doubtful. With
>Takara's raging G1 boner, do you REALLY think they'll release BM there?
I've heard on reliable sources that it's still a possibility.
>M "Of Course, The Trick Is, The Japanese Fans Are Right" Sipher
No Japanese fan I know says that the US gets better stuff.
JORDAN L DERBER
M Sipher <msi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Wrongo.
>
>Having spent a half-dozen years of my life working daily with CGI artists,
>and upon rewatching various episodes from both series, the animation of BM
>far outshines the animation in BW. The "flash-and-swap" transformations of
>the Maximals in BM is NO DIFFERENT from the "twist-then-swap"
>transformations of several of the early BW characters.
If it's so much better than BW, why does it seem to take years of
experience with CGI to recognize it?
>And Brave Max is a big stand-up clunky big hideously mulitcolored piece of
>plastic minus the cool gimmicks like lights, sounds, or firing missiles,
Still looks ten times better than Supreetor, IMO.
>and, in the J-version's case at least, several accessories that Takara
>CLEARLY HAD THE WORKING MOLDS TO. And if/when he comes out here, he'll
>probably cost MORE than Supreetor.
And it would be worth it, to me... at least he can interact with other
TFs.
>And why EXACTLY will RiD be "inferior"? Go on. Let's hear it. Because it'll
>lack a theme song that's IN JAPANESE when marketed to a
>NON-JAPANESE-SPEAKING audience?
Because the theme song will be simplistic compared to the Japanese them
song. Because there won't be an ending animation and ending theme.
Because the voice acting will most likely not be as good as the original
(my friend knows someone who got to see a promo of it, and he tells me
it's terrible. I'm reserving final judgement, but voice acting simply
isn't treated as seriously in the US as it is in Japan). Because Side
Burn won't be able to get away with some of the things that Speedbreaker
says in the show. Minor things to you, perhaps, and perhaps to me as
well, but I doubt if I will come to prefer RID over CR. But what do you
care? You don't know what you're missing anyways, since you haven't seen
CR.
>Explain why RiD is moving faster than Jesse Helms in Harlem, then.
Uh, I was never disputing this. I was simply pointing out that the show
would help it to move faster.
>The mold changes that allow the toy gimmicks to work properly?
I dunno about you, but I like being able to fire all of SFC's missiles at
once.
Zobovor
>BM's animation puts BW to shame. The charcaters move more
>realistically, more life-like, the expressions are better, the physics of
>their movements are better-done.
"Better" is a meaningless word. What it really means is "I like it more." You
have to qualify this with something--tell us *why* it's better.
I see the Beast Machines animation as being more technically proficient--you're
right in that there are little or no instances of characters phasing into
themselves and that the faces are designed to be far more expressive (of
course, keep in mind that the original robot-mode heads were designed with the
possibility that they wouldn't even be able to *talk*). Lots of shadows,
characters able to hold objects without their wiggling around... good stuff.
I also see a lot of stylistic decisions that bother me, like the flat character
textures and the starburst laser blasts and the cotton candy explosions and the
anime speed lines and the recycled footage. Maybe you're separating these
things from the actual mechanics of the computer animation itself, but I tend
to lump all the visuals together as a whole.
As far as the transformation models go, it's clear that a whole lot less
*thought* was put into how the characters would transform. With most of the
original characters, you can tell that they'd worked out where each of the
parts were supposed to go. Sure, there was a lot of morphing going on, but it
was possible to watch the transformations and, in a lot of cases, accurately
determine how the toy was designed based on that. You can't do that with Beast
Machines. When Primal or Nightscream transform, there's no mechanical process
at work at all; limbs simply shrink until they disappear into infinity,
replaced with other limbs that grew, literally, out of nowhere.
Zobovor... one thing I will say for CGI transformations is that they nicely
eliminated that rather disconcerting tendency in G1 for characters to assume a
slightly deformed, I'm-about-to-transform pose...
JORDAN L DERBER
M Sipher <msi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I suggested Hasbro sell them in plastic baggies? Gee. I'm glad you told me I
>did.
I don't think you suggested taht Hasbro actually do that, but I thought
you said that you would buy them that way, since the toys were all you
really cared about.
Trent Troop
>
> Better than not releasing him at all.
The molds were prepped and used, its not as though they weren't there and
usable. He was a monster price-wise anyhow, omiting his little sub-robots
and accessories was a baffling move at best.
> If Takara is so
> >good, why did TF:CR FAIL?
>
> Hey, they can't change what's trendy. Stuff like Yu-Gi-Oh was dominating
> the boy's market. They still did a better job on little things like
> packaging. When you have exactly the same toys, it's the little things
> that make all the difference.
You do realize that the packaging is designed specificly to fit the needs of
the market, don't you?
> >Opinion. Quality of a Television Prgramme is highly if not totally
> >subjective.
>
> I'm not an expert on CGI, but I'm sure there's plenty of technical reasons
> as to why the animation in BM was inferior to BW.
And you'd be wrong. There's a difference between animation quality and
stylistic choice, and BM showed great leaps in animation. Just because you
don't like the texture style or lighting setup doesn't mean anything about
the animation.
> And logically, Supreme Cheetor SHOULD have been a tremendous
> >seller.
>
> How so? There was a smaller version of teh toy on the market at exactly
> the same time, and it cost nearly a third as much. How many parents do
> you think would pay that much more for something just because it's bigger?
Cheets was a proven seller, and it was an expermental sizeclass. Blaming
Hasbro for the failure of Supreme Cheets is like blaming Takara for the
failure of CR. If you want to say they can't control trends, then you have
to grant the US line the same leniancy.
And Hasbro's not the company that, when looting the past for viable molds to
use in the modern line, decided to have the combaticons back up Black
Convoy, when there were a number of more stylisticly appropriate figures in
g2 that could have been used. The laser cycles are recycled, sans light
feature, into Microman. TF gets stuck with GDMF Bruticus... Again. If they
could dig up the laser cycles, they could have dug up the laser cars, or the
heroes, or the cyberjets, or SOMETHING engineered after the concept of
joints not required for transformation. The laser cars at least would have
been in scale.
> >I hope the Opening Theme is retained... Go, boy Convoy, etc... but that's
a
> >theme song, and not a toy.
>
> But as it relates to the show, it makes a difference. Opinions of the
> song itself aside, which is more appealing: a song done by a professional
> singer (with full version on CD single), or a remix of an old 80's theme
> song done by no one special?
I can't believe you're seriously suggesting that some form of that peice of
J-pop would be brought over as the themesong in the real,
non-fanboy-dream-world. In the US, pop bands don't do cartoon theme songs,
and unless you're Warner Bros and can get Danny Elfman, you're not gonna
wind up with someone famous behind your music.
And face facts, this isn't a series with much artistic integrity at all, its
kiddie-fare, and its a 20 minute commercial. This isn't freakin' Grave of
the Fireflies here. Its gonna get altered up and repackaged to best serve
its original function, selling toys, in its new market.
> >Um... Hasbro has large toy pictures on the RiD boxes and cards. I prefer
it
> >to art, for the reasons explained in my post, later on in this thread.
>
> Hmm, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're in the minority...
It isn't that big of a deal. It shows that Hasbro has its priorities strait.
Better to cut some corners on the packaging than on the toy itself. Unlike
some fans, I'd rather see new material than a transfroming jet originally
engineered in the late seventies for the umpteenth time. And if they're
going to recycle, draw from the sources that are more compatable with the
"new" eh?
> The
> >loss of Tech Specs is indeed a shame, but nowhere near the sin you're
> >painting it as.
>
> It still makes the original CR toys technically superior, as they have
> both computer rendered art AND toy pictures.
That's not "toy" that's packaging.
> >I argue that. A line is judged by its toys, not it's paper.
>
> As I've said before, when the toys are almost exactly the same, it's the
> little things that make the difference.
And you'd be right. The little things like the extra paint deco on the
spychangers, the painted faction sigils on the Autobots, and how can I
forget the line's EXTRA TOYS. Brave Max may not come out. Whoop-d-doo. It
ain't Hasbro's fault if none of the chains want to carry the mile-high
McGuffin. Ignoring things of rumor and the unconfirmed, we've already got
$30 of new, US only merchandise, at SRP, and more is likely to come down the
pipe. Lets see:
Cerberus, Sideburn & Sideswipe, Prowl & Daytonus, Windsheer & Skyfire.
On top of that, we're likely to see another two spychangers (the unreleased
g2 sports car and land rover), and then the new-mold spychangers, assuming
they're still go, which will be another four, at the least. And this is
without store exclusive in-line repaints. Then there's whatever's left to
fill out first and second quarter '02. Its not as though this is just a
port-over, a lot more is going into this than really needs to, and compared
to Takara's port-over jobs, (BW Metals, specificly), Hasbro's really going
above and beyond here.
-Trent
Trent Troop
> >Yeah, instead they just cut the line off entirely and give the world
> >Webdiver. Bra-fucking-vo.
>
> They're still doing re-releases and the SCFs. Marketing directly to the
> fans is certainly something to applaud in my book, if the kids aren't
> interested.
I would find it far more admirable, if they'd attempted to do both at the
same time, or if they'd eliminate the anti-chase figures from the PVC
assortments. The clear figures exist to force the purchaser into gambling on
another box just to get a shot at the painted version. They're not even in
the normal, white "paint me yourself" plastic that some UFO catcher toys and
kits are. And then, there's the Fort Max peices. One in ten cases. Yeah,
that's love. Prison-style.
> >Because intros and bumpers make or break a show. Riiiiiight.
>
> Never said that they did. Would you argue that it is better to not have
> little things like that?
The show will have its own little bonuses to make up for it. Like two extra
minutes of dialog.
> I certainly
> >hope you're not expecting some wonderful translation of the show that
> >justifies how much kewler Takara is than Hasbro, considering the source
> >material was skewed for very young children.
>
> Nope, I am expecting little differences that might make it look worse than
> the original, however.
You'll wind up seeing what you want to see. The humor will be changed to fit
a US sense of humor, the puns altered up, and you'll probably see more
Digimon-esq toss-in jokes, all of which will make the youth audience stand
up and notice a bit more. You'll be happy to know that Sky-Byte still has
little pre-battle Haiku (you really ought to check out my interviews on
transfandom.com, to see what the VAs have to think of this project.... end
plug) and that other Japanese cultural references will be maintained. Others
will be changed. This is the way of things.
There will be little differences, and big ones, but all in all, its going to
be a lateral movement at worst.
> >It was your implication, the one you spelled out right here, that I was
> >questioning. I'm sure if the *majority* of fans actually cared about
such
> >things, Hasbro would do it. But the truth is that for who Hasbro's
aiming
> >for, it just isn't worth it to package the toys in stuff, and with stuff,
> >that's probably going to be thrown out by PARENTS of the CHILDREN who are
> >the TARGET demographic for these TOYS. If they were aiming for older
> >collectors, like they do with some Star Wars stuff, your argument could
> >hold maybe about as much water as kiddie pool.
>
> Sure, the kids don't know what they're missing, so screw 'em. Yeah,
> that's a good stance to take. Am I the only one who liked good box art
> and bios as a kid? Anyways, regardless of what your opinion on them is,
> my point still stands that having them is better than not having them.
Jordan, if you're that hung up about the package art, deal, ok? Its an
expense that has to be dealt with, and when the company is showing a
downturn, its not that bad of an idea to cut a corner in the realm of
packaging than to wind up pumping out a black and clear repaint of damn near
everything to absorb the cost. And Hasbro, unlike Takara, has multiple
markets to appeal to. The multilingual packaging has sped up international
distribution and has saved a pretty penny for the company, all so the line,
and the company, can get back on its feet.
Yeah, a pretty picture is nice and all, but if dropping the card art means
an extra five or six figures in the line. I say bring it on.
-Trent
JORDAN L DERBER
Trent Troop <trent...@home.com> wrote:
>I would find it far more admirable, if they'd attempted to do both at the
>same time, or if they'd eliminate the anti-chase figures from the PVC
>assortments. The clear figures exist to force the purchaser into gambling on
>another box just to get a shot at the painted version.
It's standard practice with figures like these. A couple other series wre
like this, like GGG FInal (which actually weren't doen by Takara, IIRC).
They're not even in
>the normal, white "paint me yourself" plastic that some UFO catcher toys and
>kits are. And then, there's the Fort Max peices. One in ten cases. Yeah,
>that's love. Prison-style.
It's the same as the other chase figures. Its rarity just makes it more
satisfying to have, to me.
>The show will have its own little bonuses to make up for it. Like two extra
>minutes of dialog.
Huh, really? how are they gonna do that?
>You'll wind up seeing what you want to see. The humor will be changed to fit
>a US sense of humor, the puns altered up, and you'll probably see more
>Digimon-esq toss-in jokes, all of which will make the youth audience stand
>up and notice a bit more. You'll be happy to know that Sky-Byte still has
>little pre-battle Haiku (you really ought to check out my interviews on
>transfandom.com, to see what the VAs have to think of this project.... end
>plug) and that other Japanese cultural references will be maintained. Others
>will be changed. This is the way of things.
Yeah, that's about what I was expecting. Good news, I suppose.
>Jordan, if you're that hung up about the package art, deal, ok?
Oh, I did. I've got the CR versions ^_^ Doesn't mean I wouldn't like
for everyone else be able to see it.
>Yeah, a pretty picture is nice and all, but if dropping the card art means
>an extra five or six figures in the line. I say bring it on.
I'm really doubtful if it's that much of an expense. The art's already
done and made...
JORDAN L DERBER
Citizen V <Baron...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>The friend of mine who went to Japan and got me my SFC and JRX. I showed
>him the catalog and he translated for me... How inaccurate are they?
Well, Mach Alert says "I strive to be a warrior who protects the rules."
All of the others are pretty different, too. Wait, are we looking at teh
same catalog? I'm looking at the 2nd one, the one with the Build Brothers
and Combatrons...
>I made no mention to dumbing down, I made reference to making it juvenile.
>There is a difference. Digimon is fun (juvenile, if you will) and it's not
>been dumbed down. I like it just fine, and I hope RiD will set the bar
>higher when it finally premieres.
I hope so too, but I've just been disappointed too many times when it
coems to things like this. Guess there's no way I couldn't be
disappointed, really. Ah well, I'm sure I'll enjoy it anyways.
>CR is/was also available, with most likely equivalent frequency... the US
>is bigger, that's all...
Dunno about that. There was only one store in PGH that I knew of that had
CR, and it was way out in the sticks... Seemed everywhere I went shopping
in Japan, you'd see a BM toy every once in a while...
>I'd love to have Brave Max here, guns or no guns. But given a choice, I'd
>wait for a Gun-including version... as I am right now. And it's still
>stingy, cheap and... vomitous that Takara made the guns for a contest
>exclusive version and omitted them from the mass-market molding.
Hey, how would you feel if you won something in a contest, only to find
out that the same exact thing could be bought on the shelves a couple
months later? Gotta make the contest prize special some way.
M Sipher
> In article <nvji7.482$Ov2....@ord-read.news.verio.net>,
> Walkerton <wii...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >To avoid legal issues. Those shitheads.
>
> I'm still not convinced that this is the only reason why the lights were
> filled in.
Well, do kindly tell us what CONCIEVABLE reason Hasbro could POSSIBLY have
for doing so. Because "legal issues" is a giant neon sign screaming at us as
the blatantly obvious reason. I don't see any other reason for them to do
so, especially since all the other changes in the paint apps were deco
enhancements rather than an attempt to make the vehicle's "mold" look
different.
> >Kinda like how Japan had the chance to get the later TM2s and the entire
> >Beast Machines line...
>
> They did get many of the TM2s, sold in US packaging in TRU.
Yeah, but NOT THROUGH TAKARA. That was solely TRU's doing, and NO different
from my ability to pick up the Car Robots toys in their Car Robots packaging
at the mall here, albeit at a you've-got-to-be-shitting-me-Pyle price
markup.
> BM may still
> be released over there.
And "Family Guy" may one day be funny. Neither prospect seems likely.
> >...oh, wait. They didn't.
> >
> >I guess that means Takara hates the fans, huh?
>
> No more so than Hasbro not releasing any of the other Japanese lines means
> that they hate us.
Well, here's the funny parts about that. The vast majority of the J-lines
have just been recolored US stuff, so why would Hasbro BOTHER? They've
already been taken to task over rampant recoloring.
And then there's that up until recently, Takara was less than easy to get
J-exclusive molds out of. Hasbro didn't actually have the rights to use any
of Takara's original molds, they had to negotiate to use them. For a while,
the best they could manage was releasing Takara's overstock as-is. And we
got most of the original molds that way.
That, of course, changed when Takara's financial situation went in the
toilet.
M "They've ALWAYS Done Better With Money Coming In From Foreign Sales Than
With Domestics..." Sipher