[MISC] Skyflight
Neale Davidson
Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28. He was known as
a proud and loyal friend to Raksha, and other persons who regularly attended
the 'Transformers: Decepticon Dominion' mush, as well as an outspoken fan of
the Decepticon faction of the original Transformers: Cartoon.
I'll let others speak on him and his passing, but I wanted to carry the news
through to alt.toys.transformers.
Neale Davidson
Jess
How old is *your* Sig?
Please remove pants to contact me.
Richard Mistron
about though. My thoughts, prayers, and sympathies to his family and
friends.
Brian Kilby
"Richard Mistron" <orio...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:FFlXa.2547$jp....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
This is all news to me. I didn't even know he was sick. God. I so very much
hate hearing this. I didn't associate with Skyf much beyond his tenure in
#Wiigii! but I'm glad I got the chance to know him.
Brian Kilby
Jess
>hate hearing this.
Yeah, same here. I probably said some rather unsavory things about him during
the last flame war, which makes me feel pretty bad now. Guess you just never
know, though.
Bluestreak7
die.
My condolances go out to friends, family, and others who he has touched
throughout his short life.
I will miss him...
--Bluestreak7, your friendly neighborhood TransFan
Dirtyred
I don't know if I ever talked to him, but that's just terrible news. Dying
from cancer at such a young age saddens me (not that dying from cancer at an
older age isn't bad).
Hydra
It seems terribly sudden, since we had just seen him posting here
regarding OTFCC no more than a few weeks or so ago. Actually, the sad
thing is that he must have been aware of his condition for some time,
and continued to post despite his failing health. Being the long-time
Decepticon fan that he was, I can't help but respect his strength in
keeping up appearances to the bitter end.
Regrettably, I seem to recall that at last year's BotCon, a certain
transfan who loves making light of other peoples' appearances pointed
out to Skyflight that he had lost weight. That was rather unfortunate.
Although I'm not sure anyone (except obviously Skyflight) knew of his
condition at that point, I'd feel slightly better at this point if I
thought that the terminally ill, at least, could be exempt from
in-fandom ridicule.
Ethan Hammond
cancer affects all ages not just older people.
Even someone only two years older than
myself can die from it. Scary stuff. Almost
lost my mom to cancer a few years ago
so I know how bad it is. We may not agree
what happens when you die, but we can
agree that wherever he is, he is rooting
on the Decepticon cause.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Vindicator
This is terrible news for us all. Thank you for bringing it to our
attention, Neale.
Robert Powers
Behold! On 4 Aug 2003 03:34:16 -0700, Hydra <hyd...@yahoo.com> did
speak:
>Regrettably, I seem to recall that at last year's BotCon, a certain
>transfan who loves making light of other peoples' appearances pointed
>out to Skyflight that he had lost weight. That was rather unfortunate.
Skyf himself apparently didn't know of his condition at the time.
--
Robert Powers
repo...@uwm.edu ________________________________________
| Built St. Louis |
| http://www.BuiltStLouis.net/ |
|________ Tracking the city's endangered architecture _|
Suspsy
> Regrettably, I seem to recall that at last year's BotCon, a certain
> transfan who loves making light of other peoples' appearances pointed
> out to Skyflight that he had lost weight. That was rather unfortunate.
> Although I'm not sure anyone (except obviously Skyflight) knew of his
> condition at that point, I'd feel slightly better at this point if I
> thought that the terminally ill, at least, could be exempt from
> in-fandom ridicule.
Actually, Skyf himself didn't know about his condition at the time, so he
was quite happy when Hoop and I both complimented him on his weight loss.
It's a shame you felt the need to turn this thread into a personal attack,
Hydra.
Susp
"Life is worth living as long as there are enemies worth
destroying." -Sixshot
Richard Mistron
>
> It seems terribly sudden, since we had just seen him posting here
> regarding OTFCC no more than a few weeks or so ago. Actually, the sad
> thing is that he must have been aware of his condition for some time,
> and continued to post despite his failing health. Being the long-time
> Decepticon fan that he was, I can't help but respect his strength in
> keeping up appearances to the bitter end.
Actually, according to the post made by Raksha in ATTCM, Burt was aware of
his condition since this time last year. Apparently, he was doing very well
up until a month or so ago.
> Regrettably, I seem to recall that at last year's BotCon, a certain
> transfan who loves making light of other peoples' appearances pointed
> out to Skyflight that he had lost weight. That was rather unfortunate.
> Although I'm not sure anyone (except obviously Skyflight) knew of his
> condition at that point, I'd feel slightly better at this point if I
> thought that the terminally ill, at least, could be exempt from
> in-fandom ridicule.
Hydra, it's more than likely he may not have known of his condition at the
time of that exchange. I see no need to turn this thread into another flame
war. It would be nice to see Burt's name not associated, just once, with the
bickerings of the fandom. Please let it go.
Alpha Omega
"Neale Davidson" <ne...@protoformproject.com> wrote in message news:<WnkXa.9690$gi.48...@news2.news.adelphia.net>...
Neale Davidson
He knew, he just only shared it with a few people.
Neale Davidson
Thylacine 2000
> Regrettably, I seem to recall that at last year's BotCon, a certain
> transfan who loves making light of other peoples' appearances pointed
> out to Skyflight that he had lost weight. That was rather unfortunate.
> Although I'm not sure anyone (except obviously Skyflight) knew of his
> condition at that point, I'd feel slightly better at this point if I
> thought that the terminally ill, at least, could be exempt from
> in-fandom ridicule.
As of Botcon 2002, no one knew of Skyf's cancer, *including* Skyf
himself. He was grateful for all the praise and encouragement he
received for what appeared to have been the payoff of his efforts to
lose weight. He didn't learn the horrible truth until some months
later, and up to the end he told very few.
Please don't try to start something over this, especially not now.
Goodbye, Burt. I'll miss you. I already do.
Nightbird
a few IM's through out the years. I will miss seeing him at the Future
Cybercons and Botcon next year.
-Nightbird
Mark Brown
news:WnkXa.9690$gi.48...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
at
> Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
Ouch.
Condolences to his family and friends.
Mark
*sends G1 Seekers on a missing-man flyby*
Enfilade
year, at which time he as yet wasn't aware of his condition....he'd
been feeling "a little off" on occasion, but didn't think it was
anything serious.
How were any of us to even guess...
The news broke shortly thereafter, but he chose not to publicize it to
too many people. It's only my guess that he didn't want to be pitied,
and chose instead to be Skyflight-as-usual right up until July when
his condition took a sudden turn for the worse.
I last saw him in May and am personally stunned at the rapidity of his
decline.
Most of my memorials have already been said at The Allspark,
www.allspark.com, but to reiterate the most important things: he was
more than a fellow moderator at TFDD, he was a personal friend, and he
will be missed.
--Enfilade @ TLY
Tempest @ TFDD
Stormrave @ The Allspark
Chris McFeely
saddened by this, and my thoughts are with his loved ones now.
Chris
Pyre
>
> Regrettably, I seem to recall that at last year's BotCon, a certain
> transfan who loves making light of other peoples' appearances pointed
> out to Skyflight that he had lost weight.
If you're talking about who I think you're talking about, I don't think he
was trying to mock him in any way. I believe he was actually
complimenting him on that.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"I feel my world shake, like an earthquake.
Hard to see clear. Is it me, is it fear?
Madly in Anger with you. I'm madly in anger with you."
Rugbys Starbase
go to his family.
~Matt
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To reply, remove "NOSPAM".
eBay ID: rugbys-starbase
"Duct tape is like The Force; it has a light side & a dark side, and it holds
the universe together"
~Proud member of the 501st: ECG
Doug Dlin
death. I didn't agree with him that often, but I certainly respected
his intellect and devotion. Whatever conflicts may have surrounded him
at any time, he will be missed in our community.
Doug Dlin
apcog at hotmail.com
ShadowWing
"Neale Davidson" wrote
> On 3 August, 2003, Burt "Skyflight" Ward passed away from terminal cancer
at
> Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28. He was known
as
> a proud and loyal friend to Raksha, and other persons who regularly
attended
> the 'Transformers: Decepticon Dominion' mush, as well as an outspoken fan
of
> the Decepticon faction of the original Transformers: Cartoon.
You know, I can't say I agreed with him on a lot of things, from the
Decepticons to his personal views on morality, but he wasn't a bad guy at
all. In fact he did me a favor once, picking up a copy of the Blockbuster
release of "More Than Meets the Eye" so I could join in the reviews for the
Cartoon Viewing Club. (Naturally I had to pay for it, and just after I sent
the MO it finally showed up around here.) So I think I can say truthfully
from that and other conversations that he was a fine, upstanding member of
the Transfan community (although I never met him in person), at least when
he didn't get caught up in a flame battle. It's a shame he died so young,
and my well wishes go out to his family, friends, and fellow
pro-Decepticoners. Safe journey, young warrior.
--
______________________________________________
| HEROIC AUTOBOT ^ ^ {ShadowWing} |
| AMONG MAXIMALS |()| { transfan} |
| [CYBERTRON] \/ Ż||Ż||Ż||ŻŻ |
|ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Ż Ż ŻŻŻŻŻŻ|
|Function: /\ /\ str: 7.0|
|Guardian / \ ()/ \ int: 8.5|
|Motto:"One's true / /\ o[]o/\ \ spd: 9.0|
|form lies within." / --o-[]-o-- \ end: 7.0|
|Survivor of every / / / 00 \ \ \rnk: 6.0|
|Transformer war. 00 cor:10.0|
|More information on line ^^ fire:5.4|
|Visit THE TRANSFORMATION ZONE skl: 9.2|
| http://pages.cthome.net/ShadowWing |
|updated 8/16/2002 |
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Hydra
Alright, fine. This is the last I'll say of it, and I'm not making a
personal attack. I rarely involve myself in outright flaming, but I
knew that my statement would not be well received when I posted it. I
just felt that maybe certain persons ought to lay off such snarky
observations when, case in point, you never know just what's going on
in somebody's life. Sorry if this comes off as "told you so," but it's
true.
Oh, and if that was intended as a compliment at the time, that does
change things, although this account is a little hard for my to fathom
given the history of conflict between Skyflight and other members of
the community. Sermon complete, OK?
Anyway, back to the main topic of the thread, although probably many
people on ATT have argued with Skyflight about topics such as 'Con
loyalism, it must be as much a shock to everyone else as it is to me
for him to be absent. Sky was regular as can be, and although it's not
like I savored teh arguments, his strong views were at least something
I was convinced would always be around. Along with the sudden shifts
among BotCon management this year, it seems to have been a time when
many things changed unexpectedly for us.
superspy
then said news:6cf1db48.03080...@posting.google.com:
>
> Regrettably, I seem to recall that at last year's BotCon, a certain
> transfan who loves making light of other peoples' appearances pointed
> out to Skyflight that he had lost weight. That was rather
> unfortunate. Although I'm not sure anyone (except obviously
> Skyflight) knew of his condition at that point, I'd feel slightly
> better at this point if I thought that the terminally ill, at least,
> could be exempt from in-fandom ridicule.
You see, this doesn't work either way. Either he knew and only told a very
few, select group of people, or didn't know at all. Either way, the
comments made regarding his weight were innocuous in nature, meant with
absolutely zero malice, and by all indications, weren't taken as such.
I'm sure the comment wouldn't have been made if his condition were known -
which it wasn't. Apparently, not even to Burt himself. Was the person in
question just supposed to divine this information from thin air? Go shove
it up your Otaku ass, Hydra. Seriously.
Anthony "Tonyfitz" Brucale
just a few months ago I remember finding myself surprised that he an I were
on the same side of a debate one night in #WiiGii!
Hell, we both saw the humor in that.
Yet, personal opinions aside, I always respected Skyf's unwavering stances
in a discussion. No matter how wrong everyone else thought he was, he'd
stick to his guns. And with that, there's a special passion that passes from
this world with him.
I learned of Skyf's health issues this past New Year's Eve. Though I was
shocked then, I am doubly shocked now that he was taken so quickly.
I saw him just a few months ago at CyberCon Expo in NJ and he seemed in good
health and spirits. Another thing many didn't realize about Skyf is how he
was the embodiment of the fan-dealer. I always enjoyed visiting Skyf's table
at conventions because he sold items without greed, as opposed to the
typical dealer trying to bleed every last cent they can for the bits of
plastic and metal they were selling. It takes a unique person to put
themselves in that position. The Crystal and Black Rodimii he sold me that
day are now facing the wall as a small tribute, a reminder everything is
temporary; take no second for granted.
The fandom just won't be the same without him.
Rest in Peace, Skyflight. Whatever answer lies beyond the eternal question,
may you find it safely and joyously.
--
--Ant
--
*******************************************
Anthony "Tonyfitz" Brucale
*******************************************
Webmaster - www.tfu.info
*******************************************
RoarV2
were rarely in agreement like a lot of people, but to hear of his passing
saddens me deeply. Even as someone on the opposite side of the line as far as
Transformers conversations go, I have to say that I respected him as a
"warrior" who stood for his beliefs and ideas. And while we both fought over
different views, it was our love for the same thing that united us. It was an
absolute honor to butt heads with him. Its a damn shame that I will never get
that chance again. Let his passing be a lesson to all. Life is short and
unpredictable; dont let the little things cause rifts where friendship could
form. Treat everyone as if they are your friend, because you never know when
they might not be around anymore.
As they say, its always darkest before the light. Your time of darkness has
ended Skyflight, enjoy the newfound light.
Chris
"Roar"
Daniel Suh
> knew that my statement would not be well received when I posted it. I
> just felt that maybe certain persons ought to lay off such snarky
> observations when, case in point, you never know just what's going on
> in somebody's life. Sorry if this comes off as "told you so," but it's
> true.
Why don't you head over to Allspark and make friends with Afterbirth the
Gimp, Drew? Then you can preach unwanted and unnecessary sermons from atop a
high horse all day long.
> Oh, and if that was intended as a compliment at the time, that does
> change things, although this account is a little hard for my to fathom
> given the history of conflict between Skyflight and other members of
> the community.
Fathom whatever you wish, but I believe in giving compliments even to people
I don't like when I feel they deserve them. In Skyf's case, I thought that
his weight loss in 2002 was due to dieting and/or exercise. That to me
warranted a compliment. My exact words to him were "Skyflight, man, you look
great! You look absolutely great!" And Skyf smiled at these words.
I won't dishonour Skyf's memory with lies. I didn't like him and he didn't
like me. But at no point did I ever seriously wish him any kind of ill, let
alone a terminal form of cancer. As BM Cheetor once noted, "Disagreeing with
someone's ideas isn't the same as wanting them slagged." Aside from his
outlandish views on Decepticons and morality, Skyf was actually a pretty
decent member of the fandom who never engaged in harmful and heinous acts
like Seiberscum.com. Furthermore, he kept his illness to himself instead of
using it as some kind of sympathy tool. That sort of behaviour I can only
respect.
If there really is such a thing as Heaven, Skyf's probably up there right
now, kitbashing toys, watching TF eps, and chatting it up with a sentient
Nightbird.
Susp
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the
good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." -Dinobot
Onslaught Six
> On 3 August, 2003, Burt "Skyflight" Ward passed away from terminal cancer at
> Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
................Damn.
*rips Big Cannon off Big Convoy, places Matrix back in his chest,
poses him in saluting pose.*
Often Imitated Never Duplicated
>
>> Alright, fine. This is the last I'll say of it, and I'm not making a
>> personal attack.I rarely involve myself in outright flaming, but I
>> knew that my statement would not be well received when I posted it.
[snip]
>From: Daniel Suh
>Why don't you head over to Allspark and make friends with Afterbirth the
>Gimp, Drew? Then you can preach unwanted and unnecessary sermons from atop a
>high horse all day long.
Astonishing. You guys use a thread about the passing of a fellow Transfan to
air your dirty laundry.
Bravo, Gentlemen. Bravo.
---
Retardomontalban
Lifeguard of the gene pool
Gabi T.M. D'Galvatron
heard from Burt was on the 27/06/03 .
Needless to say that the topic had to do with moderation on ATTCM ... ,
also needless to say that his reply made me pause my postings to that newsgroup .
But that's the kinda guy he was . In one word : relentless .
In another : colorful .
I won't miss the former all that much , but I will miss the latter , as
I'm sure that so will others ... -- now , or perhaps later on .
I can't speak for anybody else , but I'm not a big fan of miscoloring a
persons past just because they have happened to passed away -- yet at
the same time I sure won't be the one to make way too honest
(and inappropriate remarks ) so close to his passing .
As I've struggled to come up with something both complimentary and
fitting for the occasion , my weird brain once again chose to micro-size
the issues instead of blowing them out of proportion , and here's what
it chose to spit out :
"Dear Skyf ,
I really won't miss the 'not-yielding for an inch and often seemingly
mindless defense of your convictions' , which on more than one
occasion (let's face it , on many-many occasions [I said hello to you
in that regard in the 2000 Trannies] ) made me want to pound my head
into the nearest wall , but I will miss this :
I'll miss the fact that your world view , and your stance on Transformers ,
loyalty , and many other issues were so far from what I misguidedly
consider to be something nearing 'The Truth' .
It was fun , annoying , painful and refreshing .
(and offcourse it made a voice in my head go : "Same old Skyf ..."
facepalm ... :-)
And , I'll also miss the creativity that you've inspired in me -- creativity
to circumvent (with a vengeance!!!) your latest theory / argument ,
a type of creativity that ... , as I look around , I find that -- as
painful as this may sound -- I don't see anybody else currently inspiring
in me .
(well there is that one other , but we're not on talking terms anymore so ...
. )
A little thing that I'm kinda afraid of ... , is that in no time flat I
may make a reference to you , just to be reminded by others that you're
no longer with us .
And I guess that that is a statement of your durability as well .
Not the kind of durability that your body provided , but one that is perhaps
of equal strength .
I'm hesitant to say that I'll miss you , but you know I will , sooner or
later .
As Megatron said : " I _WILL_ have my revenge !!! " .
I'm sure you will as well .
Take cear , wherever you are , and as others have said -- at least the pain
is gone . "
-Gabi.
Merytneith
> On 3 August, 2003, Burt "Skyflight" Ward passed away from terminal cancer at
> Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
I am very sorry to hear this news. Although I never knew
Mr. Ward personally, I came to admire and respect his
tenacious discussion style after numerous discussions here
on ATT on myriad subjects. That he and I often stood upon
opposite sides of the given issue was of no consequence
given the professional and reasonable tone he unerringly
employed when debating with me. The fandom has lost a true
and dedicated member of the community, and his loss is
indeed our own.
--Merytneith
Tut
that comes to mind is that bad things alway seem to happen in August.
> I won't dishonour Skyf's memory with lies. I didn't like him and he didn't
> like me. But at no point did I ever seriously wish him any kind of ill, let
> alone a terminal form of cancer. As BM Cheetor once noted, "Disagreeing with
> someone's ideas isn't the same as wanting them slagged."
Suspy just summed it up for me too. Everyone here basically knows that
after the Falling Out in 1998, there was nothing but enmity between myself
and Skyflight and Raksha. I know I said a lot of things out of anger; Skyflight
came up to me at BotCon 2000 and said he was still angry about my calling
ATTCM the Serpent Sorority and he wanted a public online apology. I offered
an apology to him personally since I was face-to-face with him and I saw
that as a more appropriate answer. At the time he didn't feel that way. But
for the record between here and eternity, I never intentionally set out to
make enemies of Burt "Skyflight" Ward or Raksha. And I find it truly
regrettable that Skyflight and I never got a chance to see eye-to-eye
in this lifetime.
Daryn has also expressed the same feelings.
> If there really is such a thing as Heaven
I've come to find Heaven and Hell as states of mind, but the soul goes
on forever. We'll all see each other again eventually, but in the meantime
the best tribute we can pay him is to find renewed value in our own lives
and our relationships with other people. No sense in his passing being in
vain.
Tut, signing off with the words to a song that just seems worthwhile
for a dedication...
"Lightning crashes, a new mother cries
Her placenta falls to the floor
The angel opens her eyes
The confusion sets in, before the doctor can even
close the door
"Lightning crashes, an old mother dies
Her intentions fall to the floor
The confusion that was hers, belongs now to the
baby down the hall
"I can feel it, coming back again
Like a rolling thunder chasing the wind
Forces pulling from the center of the earth again
I can feel it
"Lightning crashes, a new mother cries
This moment she's been waiting for
The angel opens her eyes
Pale blue colored iris
Presents the circle, puts the glory out to hide, hide
"Oh now, feel it, coming back again
Like a rolling thunder chasing the wind
Forces pulling from the center of the earth again
I can feel it...."
--"Lightning Crashes", Live 1995
Raksha
(snip)
Would you look at what crawled out from the slime and the ooze. My
my. It's something that used to wear the Decepticon insignia before
she turned around and spit on it.
I guarantee you, beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt, that
Skyflight would not have wanted "condolances" from this piece of
treasonous, backstabbing filth - the very antithesis of everything he
was and stood for as an embodiment of Decepticon honor.
Thanks, Neale, for encouraging the pondscum to rise up and dance on
the grave.
Those of you who'd like to express *genuine* sympathies, may I request
you do so on ATTCM, the group Skyflight helped to create? Posting
them here is (depending on the source) well-meaning but misguided at
best, and a sick and monstrous outrage at worst, given how this group
never did anything but relentlessly attack him and everything he
believed in. Right up until the end, he was receiving hate-mail from
the inhabitants of good old ATT. It has to be said. This thread
should never have been posted here.
--Raksha
Come to the REAL BotCon! June 2004, Pasadena CA
--------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
--------------------------------------------------------
All-time favorite Transformer: Soundwave ("The secrets
of the Universe reveal themselves to those who listen.")
--------------------------------------------------------
ATTCM - the Transformers at their best!
(request alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated
from: postmaster@<your provider's address>)
Neale Davidson
> the grave.
You know, I've been patient about a lot of things, but I'm taking a stand
here. The only really negative statements coming from anyone was a small
dispute between two people on if they meant to insult Skyflight over a
year ago about his weight. And that turned out to be untrue.
Until now.
Everyone, even those who strongly disagreed with Skyflight on many
issues, regretted his loss and offered condolensces for many common
friends.
In this case, the only one who expressed such hatred was /you/, Raksha.
The only one who wanted to use the man's death as an issue was /you/.
It's sad to see that the only one to so dishonor Skyflight in such a
heinous way was the one who supposedly loved and respected him the
most.
Friends are not someone you just use - in life, or in death, and you've
just done that to pursue your imaginary war against the throngs who
do not view the Decepticons as a kind of role-model. You're the one
who dragged the baggage in here. You're the one who made the
thread unrespectable.
I know this is going to cost our friendship, and this time I accept it.
This is the lowest I've every seen anyone in the fandom, in all my
years in it, sink to. Nothing I've ever seen here compares to the depths
of using someone's death to pursue their vendettas about characters
within a toyline.
I'm sorry, Raksha.. but this little stunt has cost the respect that I've
had for you.
Neale Davidson
ShadowWing
"Raksha" wrote in
> On 5 Aug 2003 00:50:14 -0700, (Tut) wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> Would you look at what crawled out from the slime and the ooze. My
> my. It's something that used to wear the Decepticon insignia before
> she turned around and spit on it.
??????? Ok, and this was called for...why?
> I guarantee you, beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt, that
> Skyflight would not have wanted "condolences" from this piece of
> treasonous, backstabbing filth - the very antithesis of everything he
> was and stood for as an embodiment of Decepticon honor.
You know, I didn't fully believe people when they said you took this
whole debate too seriously, but you just convinced me right here. Whatever
we may have agreed or disagreed with Skyflight on, nobody wished his demise.
NOBODY! To slam Tut like that because she no longer agrees with you about a
FLIPIN' KIDS CARTOON SHOW shows a lot more dishonor on your part than hers.
All she did was...well, let's looks at what you snipped!
"Suspy just summed it up for me too. Everyone here basically knows that
after the Falling Out in 1998, there was nothing but enmity between myself
and Skyflight and Raksha. I know I said a lot of things out of anger;
Skyflight
came up to me at BotCon 2000 and said he was still angry about my calling
ATTCM the Serpent Sorority and he wanted a public online apology. I offered
an apology to him personally since I was face-to-face with him and I saw
that as a more appropriate answer. At the time he didn't feel that way. But
for the record between here and eternity, I never intentionally set out to
make enemies of Burt "Skyflight" Ward or Raksha. And I find it truly
regrettable that Skyflight and I never got a chance to see eye-to-eye
in this lifetime. "
She doesn't mix words here, or insult Mr. Ward. She said things that she
knew was a bit harsh and apologized for it. She is, however, in her right to
disagree with you and him. Suspsy also didn't get along with him, as he
posted,
but you won't find one person on this group who is--as you so lovingly
stated--rising up and
dancing on his grave. Calling us pondscum was also totally inappropriate.
(Besides, as I first stated, he once picked up a TF videotape for me, a
proud Autobot supporter. Doesn't that make him a traitor in your sight?)
Whatever his views on morality may be, I still found that he himself was
a mostly moral person, or at least would not act in ways that I feel that
"relative morality" would "allow" one to act. I have no issues with Mr. Burt
Ward, and it is saddening to hear of his passing so young, while at the same
time heartening that during his bout he was still so full of life and was
himself all the way until the end, as someone stated, never using his
illness to
call on sympathy from others. He wanted, far as I can tell, to be treated
the same
as anyone else not suffering from a disease. That's rather brave. Sure he
didn't want to be
insulted or flamed, but who does?
> Those of you who'd like to express *genuine* sympathies, may I request
> you do so on ATTCM, the group Skyflight helped to create? Posting
> them here is (depending on the source) well-meaning but misguided at
> best, and a sick and monstrous outrage at worst, given how this group
> never did anything but relentlessly attack him and everything he
> believed in. Right up until the end, he was receiving hate-mail from
> the inhabitants of good old ATT. It has to be said. This thread
> should never have been posted here.
It also has to be said, and has been, that nobody knew about his
condition. Look, I haven't seen any false comments here. Nobody who used to
argue with Skyflight, to my knowledge, has gone and demanded the Pope
canonize him. His detractors are still his detractors, but acknowledge that
they at least held some manner of respect. Skyflight was an interesting
member of the group, and outside of the flame wars seldom had anything bad
to say about anyone, with the exception of those he was in a "feud" (for
lack of a better term) with. As for "relentlessly attack(ing) him", I only
saw anything resembling that in maybe the last year or so, and I saw him
dish out as much as he took, if not moreso. Sometimes he was Tom, sometimes
he was Jerry. I never had a flame war with him, but while I didn't always
agree with him, his viewpoint was quite fascinating, and I'll miss those
debates.
You, on the other hand, have just confirmed every bad thing (or at least
most of them) that has ever been said about you. How dare you proclaim that
unless we go to "your" newsgroup we are dishonoring him? How dare you call
us pondscum for offering condolences to someone who was considered a friend
by some and an interesting person by others. How dare you use the death of
your own friend to rake Tut or anyone else over the coals because they don't
share your opinion about a kids cartoon show? The only thing you've
contributed around here as of late are attacks against Glen Hallit, Tut, and
others,
make fun of Beast Wars fans who hated Beast Machines, thus somehow
vindicating your hatred of Beast Wars, and occasionally marketing your MUSH
or your apparently well made Decepticon calendars. (I never had one, but you
have received praise on that from this very newsgroup.)
You have taken a tragedy and used it to fuel your personal rivalries,
with Tut and with this newsgroup, many of whom have never been here while
you were or even know who you are, but do know Skyflight. I personally never
corresponded with you,
either by e-mail or during my occasional visits to ATTCM. I've not always
agreed with Skyflight, but I've always tried to treat him and his opinions
with nothing but respect so long as he did mine. I never saw any evidence
that he did, but I've mostly been a casual observer of his debates rather
than a participant. The only problem I had with him was a minor one: I was
posting a request to numerous newsgroups that he felt wasn't appropriate for
the marketplace groups and refused to accept it, which only bothered me
because none of the other groups would then see the post unless I resent it.
That was a brief issue, he might have been right, even if I didn't agree
with the way he went about it, but there was never a grudge by either of us
over it, end of story. We otherwise got along quite fine for two guys who's
posts seldom crossed. Am I still pondscum to you, or do you have a specific
list of names?
You've just hit on one of my pet peeves, so I will not be apologizing
for this post. Who are you to say whether or not any condolences, whether by
Neale, Tut, Zobovor or anyone else isn't their true feelings? Do you think
that Tut
or Suspsy or anyone else wished him to die? NO! That would be ludicrous of
you to even suggest that, yet you practically did with that last quoted
paragraph. These posts are not "misguided" nor where they "a sick and
monstrous outrage". We may not have always agreed with him, but most of us
respected him if not always his perspective, and will miss him.
Something I question we could say about you. We are NOT calling for you
to die,either, but you certainly won't be missed. At least not after this
post. For using your friend's death this way, you, Ms. Raksha, are without
honor!
RoarV2
>the inhabitants of good old ATT. It has to be said. This thread
>should never have been posted here.
You've apperantly learned nothing from this Raksha. You have my pity.
Roar
Daniel Suh
Raksha <Rak...@plumed-serpent.com> wrote:
> Would you look at what crawled out from the slime and the ooze. My
> my. It's something that used to wear the Decepticon insignia before
> she turned around and spit on it.
>
> I guarantee you, beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt, that
> Skyflight would not have wanted "condolances" from this piece of
> treasonous, backstabbing filth - the very antithesis of everything he
> was and stood for as an embodiment of Decepticon honor.
Jesus H. Christ, would you give it a rest just for ONCE? Skyf always hated
how people attacked him because of his views on fiction (and before anyone
starts waving their hand, yes, I was one of those persons, I admit it), yet
here you are perpetuating that exact same crime. If this is your idea of
"honouring" a friend's memory, then you truly are a very sick and disturbed
individual.
> Those of you who'd like to express *genuine* sympathies, may I request
> you do so on ATTCM, the group Skyflight helped to create? Posting
> them here is (depending on the source) well-meaning but misguided at
> best, and a sick and monstrous outrage at worst, given how this group
> never did anything but relentlessly attack him and everything he
> believed in.
Wow, way to callously carpet bomb the innocent civilians along with the
perpetrators. For every ATTer who flamed Skyf, there was at least one who
calmly and politely debated with him. Check any thread on Google, if you
dare. Aside from one silly little false accusation, this thread was full of
sadness, condolences, and fond memories. Then you had to come slithering
along and tarnish it *completely.*
You're a bitch, Raksha.
> Come to the REAL BotCon! June 2004, Pasadena CA
Come to OTFCC as well. The Hartmans sure enjoyed it.
Susp
"Decepticons are like rust spots: they're ugly and they can pop up
anywhere." -Scattershot
Galenraff
I also know that I didn't know Skyflight beyond sharing some posts in
some threads, and I didn't often agree with his point of view - but
like others have said, differing opinions is the furthest thing from
wanting someone dead. I'm sure he'll be missed by the fandom, and
especially by his close friends and family.
Despite what Raksha lashed out and said, and despite not knowing them
particularly well or anything, I'll ask those who are responding to
Raksha in similar lashings to consider something: while most of us
lost someone we didn't often agree with, or knew only a little of, and
may have respected, Raksha lost a close, trusted, and good friend.
Honestly, I can't relate, because that hasn't ever happened to me, but
it seems that maybe this is the only way she can deal with it right
now. She and he agreed on the Decepticon principles, and now that
he's gone, she's cherishing them - to make that shared part of their
friendship all the more important to her life.
It's a way of filling a void, and while to many people here it seems
like she's disrespecting him, to her she's upholding him in the
highest esteem she can think of, and at the same time striking out
against those who have fought with him in the past in order to honor
his memory. Transformers was what brought them together, drew them
close, and is where their friendship developed, and I don't blame
Raksha for trying to preserve that.
Like I said, while I don't condone her post, I won't fault her for it
either. She's probably hurt, upset, angry, and this was her way of
coping. It seems to me that the last thing someone in her place needs
right now is criticism, insults, and disrespect. The universe has
unfairly taken someone important to her, and she said some things she
shouldn't have in response, but I don't blame her for being angry or
for not knowing what to do about that, even if it means some of it may
be misdirected.
Everyone should set aside their personal feelings for Raksha, despite
what she may say or do - just as has been done with personal feelings
toward Skyflight in what he may have said and done - because this is a
terrible thing, and she isn't necessarily going to, nor should she be
expected to, act in a calm and rational manner. It sucks and it's
okay for her to be pissed - even if she's directing it at ATT at
large. That's part of the burden of supporting someone while they're
grieving - but also part of what makes that support so needed and so
welcome to them.
Raksha, I'm sorry you lost your friend Burt. That goes for anyone
else here who lost their friend. To those that are in my position and
aren't really involved, our job is not to honor the memory of the dead
- that's for his loved ones to do in their own ways - our job is to
support the ones that are still here, including Raksha.
All I'm asking is that we try to be patient and understanding. It's
possible that I'm wrong about all of this, but then again, does it
really sound that farfetched that she really just needs some support
right now?
Thanks for reading this...I hope it helps in some way.
-----------Galenraff-------------
Other Minicon names that could go backwards just
like Overrun becoming Run-Over?
1-Leader, Wayrun, Armlong, Master-zap, Logwater,
Jetram, Outblack, Agewreck, and Plugspark.
Neale Davidson
> particularly well or anything, I'll ask those who are responding to
> Raksha in similar lashings to consider something: while most of us
> lost someone we didn't often agree with, or knew only a little of, and
> may have respected, Raksha lost a close, trusted, and good friend.
I want to agree with you. I want to just chalk this up to a moment of
anger at the world. But I can't. After so many years of watching her
attack people, constantly cry the 'fighting victim', of launching venomous
attacks on people out of the blue, then dissapearing into her holes... I've
reach the end. If her post /was/ unusual for her, and not more of the
same from the past few years, I would chalk it up to that.
This post from her wasn't unusual. Skyflight died, and yet she made
the thread about 'how she's victimized by other fans'. Burt was almost
an ancillary thought to her 'crusade'. Her best friend died, and he was
just a tool to be used for her usual 'hate the world' tripe. From Raksha's
point of view, it seems, she just lost a mouthpiece.
I think even the guys that flamed him the most had more respect than
that.
Neale Davidson
Galenraff
Like I'd said, it's possible. I don't know them as well as many
around here. I just wanted to make sure people thought about it and
took it into consideration. I don't know who's right or wrong, but
you have considered and thought about this, and that's all I asked, so
thanks.
ShadowWing
"Galenraff" wrote
>
> All I'm asking is that we try to be patient and understanding. It's
> possible that I'm wrong about all of this, but then again, does it
> really sound that farfetched that she really just needs some support
> right now?
While I'd ordinarily agree with you, and you do have a point, she has
a...certain history with ATT. Frankly, I've never seen any reason to flame
her like that, but in this case I found her actions so despicable,
regardless of why that I couldn't help it. Certain things just set me off,
and this was a big one. Sure she's upset and understandable, but it's not
her first tirade against ATT or Tut, and this was one I couldn't ignore. She
may have been closer than some others, but she's not the only one who will
miss his appearance on the net or at conventions. She's never shown a lot of
people any respect, and what she wrote about Tut she also wrote while
Skyflight was still among us. This particular time she crossed into one of
my pet peeves: never tell someone in legitimate morning that they're full of
slag because they didn't match your view of a friend.
Summit Wind
news:5tl0jvoha7al0rmh0...@4ax.com...
> I know what Raksha said was inappropriate, and I'm not condoning it.
>
OK, I may just be a lurker but I'm gonna throw discretion to the wind and
add my two cents.
I've been lurking on A.T.T. since '97; I've seen quite a bit (G1 vs. BW,
Hell Flame Wars courtesy of Rob Cypher/Big Baby Zeus, the coming and going
of Bob and Larry, BW vs. BM, and flamewars galore). One thing I still don't
get is why more of you simply do not killfile Raksha/J.K. She may have been
in great contributer and a valued member of the fandom way back when, but
from what I have seen, ever since BW came into the picture she has come to
resemble more of a troll as time goes on.
Once in a while she'll drop by to plug whatever she is doing and I don't see
anything wrong with that. However, it seems like nowadays she just drops in
to post an inflamatory diatribes filled with barely-veiled personal attacks
to the masses. It starts up the inevitable firestorm and she doesn't even
stick around to own up to it. I don't know about you but that seems like
the textbook definition of any internet troll to me. It's one thing to
state strong and unpopular opinions, but once you slip in blanket personal
attacks (How dare you attend OTFCC?! Where's your honor?!) unfounded
accusations (They're stealing my Nightracer!) and consistently doing it to
stir up discord (all the while playing the world-is-against-me victim),
well, I can't see how that can be anything other than trolling.
However, I do agree with Galenraff that the entenuating circumstances behind
this latest outburst does warrant extra compassion and patience. I've lost
too many friends myself - as I am sure some of you have as well. It's not
fun. So why don't we just let Raksha vent all she wants, it does NOT have
to do anything with us .
To sum it up, I am NOT chastising Raksha for her latest outburst, NOR am I
condoning it. All I am saying is why don't we just killfile her so that we
can go on with our daily business and no longer be bothered by her antics.
--
~Summit Wind
HAIL to the greatest advance in mass miscommunication that is The Internet!
(To contact me, make a VERY obvious change to my email address)
Richard Mistron
[snip]
This post just makes me even more sad than I already was about Burt's
passing.
kingdom2000
I also respectfully ask that some of the dissention in this thread be
taken to new threads. It is not appropriate to debate the issues
here.
Zaku II
>Thanks, Neale, for encouraging the pondscum to rise up and dance on
>the grave.
Well, I'm sure that wasn't Neale's intention. I'm know Skyflight had his share
of enemies here, but with all due respect, Neale only posted the news about
Skyflight so that those who knew him would know about it and offer their
condolances. There's nothing wrong with that.
>I guarantee you, beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt, that
>Skyflight would not have wanted "condolances" from this piece of
>treasonous, backstabbing filth - the very antithesis of everything he
>was and stood for as an embodiment of Decepticon honor.
"Decepticon honor" is a contradiction in terms. At least in MY opinion, anyway.
I think the whole point of the news being posted here is so that some people
could forgive and forget. I know that it's not possible for me to undo whatever
it was I've done in the past in dealing with Skyflight (which seemed to be a
one-way thing, but I digress), but I'm not willing to dig up past arguments and
try to sour things further between factions of the fandom. Why must you
continue to do so?
>Those of you who'd like to express *genuine* sympathies, may I request
>you do so on ATTCM, the group Skyflight helped to create? Posting
>them here is (depending on the source) well-meaning but misguided at
>best, and a sick and monstrous outrage at worst, given how this group
>never did anything but relentlessly attack him and everything he
>believed in. Right up until the end, he was receiving hate-mail from
>the inhabitants of good old ATT. It has to be said. This thread
>should never have been posted here.
>
Actually, those who would like to express their sympathies should continue to
do so, and not bring up old arguments and spread more hate. The hate posts
should not be posted in relation to Skyflight's untimely demise.
-Sean Kneeland
http://members.aol.com/zaku2ms06/main.html
I'm coco for Ca-Ca Puffs!
Pyre
<snip>
This post was entirely inappropriate and extremely disgusting. Please
keep your petty disputes to e-mail. This thread especially was the last
place you should have dragged them into. Show some respect.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"I feel my world shake, like an earthquake.
Hard to see clear. Is it me, is it fear?
Madly in Anger with you. I'm madly in anger with you."
Often Imitated Never Duplicated
>This post just makes me even more sad than I already was
What makes me the saddest is that he wasted his time being a friend to that
turd.
How in the world does that vindictive b*tch get through a single day without
being dragged off to the looney bin?
Ethan Hammond
>
> Those of you who'd like to express *genuine* sympathies, may I request
> you do so on ATTCM, the group Skyflight helped to create? Posting
> them here is (depending on the source) well-meaning but misguided at
> best, and a sick and monstrous outrage at worst, given how this group
> never did anything but relentlessly attack him and everything he
> believed in. Right up until the end, he was receiving hate-mail from
> the inhabitants of good old ATT. It has to be said. This thread
> should never have been posted here.
Me Ethan no like moderated newsgroups. Never posted there before
no start now. Still sad Skyflight died, be sad here, me play by own
drummer, OWN!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Sky Shadow
> On 3 August, 2003, Burt "Skyflight" Ward passed away from terminal cancer
at
> Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
Oh my God. I know I haven't been around here much(read: at all) lately, but
(though it might [or might not] seem trite to suggest that I truly *know*
anyone whom I've only met online) that's really made me sad. :( My
heartfelt commiserations to Raksha and those others who truly *did* care for
Burt and for all that they must be feeling now.
Sky Shadow.
--
"Jazz, you more than any other Autobot is prepared for what lies ahead"
The grammatically challenged Optimus Prime, from issue #2 of *Transformers:
War and Peace*.
Thomas Hamann
<ne...@protoformproject.com> screamed his special catch-phrase, and
the result was this:
>> Despite what Raksha lashed out and said, and despite not knowing them
>> particularly well or anything, I'll ask those who are responding to
>> Raksha in similar lashings to consider something: while most of us
>> lost someone we didn't often agree with, or knew only a little of, and
>> may have respected, Raksha lost a close, trusted, and good friend.
>I think even the guys that flamed him the most had more respect than
>that.
>
meant as 'get out of my sight', and not a wish for him to truly die; I
didn't know about his condition back then and want to retroactively
apologise for the comment) a few years ago during and after a
flamewar, I can say that Raksha's post was quite unusually appalling
and totally inconsiderate regarding what happened to Skyf.
Furthermore, her post clearly showed that apparently she has no notion
of the difference between real life and fantasy. 'Decepticon honor'
has nothing whatsoever to do with Skyf's death, nor do her other
fantasies in that post.
Raksha manages to pass over Skyf's dead body for her own advantage by
using him as an object, as a tool, when he has no means, and won't
have any means ever again, to reply. Which is, frankly, disgusting.
Raksha earns two things from me, for her absolutely *insane* post:
- A permanent, life-long place in every killfile I'll come across.
- A serious recommendation to get some psychiatric help, because she
clearly needs it, as she appears to be in some seriously deillusional
state. Dare I say 'psychotic'?
And I'll refrain from insulting her, out of respect for Skyf. I might
not have exactly liked Skyflight, but what Raksha just did he truly
doesn't deserve. My condolences go to Burt 'Skyflight' Ward's family.
Thomas Hamann
--
Website: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/
Rec.Arts.Anime.Models Posting Policies: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/faqs.htm
"...you ain't no different than Ben Laden..." - The emminent Dr. J ranting about me on alt.toys.transformers.
superspy
didn't catch Raksha's little diatribe. I've quoted snippets.
However:
>I guarantee you, beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt, that
>Skyflight would not have wanted "condolances" from this piece of
>treasonous, backstabbing filth - the very antithesis of everything he
>was and stood for as an embodiment of Decepticon honor.
This is the most petty, most disgusting, and flat-out disturbing thing
I've ever had the misfortune of reading. Is it so hard to remove
Transformers from your ass for a single *moment* to recognize that a man
named Burt Ward is dead, Jovanka? Is it so terribly difficult for you to
maybe take a step back and realize that although he may have loved the
toys, those disagreeing with him on such petty issues like Nightbird's
sentience weren't attacking him personally? Do you see the line? At all?
You've demonstrated just how two-dimensional you are. Congratulations,
you've let the Transformers fiction consume you entirely. I mean this
with every fiber of my being: Get a God damned life. I thought the name
change was a weird little quirk, people have done stranger things. But
he was a man, a human being, not a Decepticon. Get that through your
skull before you start chasing people away from any memorial thread just
because they don't subscribe to your psychosis.
>Those of you who'd like to express *genuine* sympathies, may I request
>you do so on ATTCM, the group Skyflight helped to create? Posting
>them here is (depending on the source) well-meaning but misguided at
>best, and a sick and monstrous outrage at worst, given how this group
>never did anything but relentlessly attack him and everything he
>believed in. Right up until the end, he was receiving hate-mail from
>the inhabitants of good old ATT. It has to be said. This thread
>should never have been posted here.
You want to talk about disrespect and dancing on graves? How about
shilling a fucking newsgroup? I'd like to think that even the hardest of
the hard core fans, like Burt, would've wanted something more
substantial in their eulogy than "Pay respect to him in the newsgroup he
helped create."
Way to honor your friend's memory, you bitch.
Wonko the Sane
> Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
My condolences. Death is never easy to deal with, but it's always a
little worse when someone we lose is so young.
Ben
mtmds
You cry "Decepticon Honor" but I'm not sure even the Decepticons would
have a problem using a corpse as a marketing tool. Although I suppose
you could have a stunning future at Acclaim...
Irrellius Spam of the Potato People
to find my pet bird dead from the West Nile virus, and now I read this horrible
news.
I know I never really openly supported many of Skyflight's arguments, and many
times publically opposed them, but he made ATT fun. I liked arguing with him.
He was a good speaker, in person and online. He took the time to put his
arguments and ideas into more detail than most, and that I'll miss.
The last thing I said to him was last year at Botcon, where we had a short and
fun conversation on whether or not it would be a good idea to bring the Dezaras
toy to the US, the last contact I had with himwas an E-mail about ATTCM, in
which for once we unanimously agreed about in every point in the two-page
E-mails.
I'll miss him...
Al-
http://www.Angelfire.com/mi2/Ob1kenoby/
"When life gives you lemons, blow them to pieces with your laser beams."- Brak
The "Feed This ATTer" charity is open! Now accepting Paypal donations!
necrotron
> On 5 Aug 2003 00:50:14 -0700, nebkh...@hotmail.com (Tut) wrote:
Somebody on this group recently pointed out that you do nothing but post
inflammatory statements and info about your MUSH on this group. It looks
like this was no exception.
People *can* have genuine feelings for their fellow man that transcend
arguments, discussions, fights, relationships, belief systems, and history.
Please, Raksha, you need to seek professional psychiatric help
*immediately.* Do not delay! You are losing what little ability you had to
be able to distinguish between reality and fiction.
Joe
(yeah, that guy)
necr...@lycos.com
ps: Peace, Skyflight. If only you were here to fix this too...
Jackpot
>
> On 3 August, 2003, Burt "Skyflight" Ward passed away from terminal
> cancer at Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
Wow. As much as I locked horns with him, knowing that he's gone leaves
a real sense of emptiness... Skyf was truly nothing if not dependable, a
constant within this corner of the fandom. No one marched against the
throng and waved the banner of Decepticonism like he did, engaging
multiple opponents in tireless debate for days on end.
And, unlike many of those opponents, Skyflight rarely lost his temper;
he was stoic and cordial in the face of every kind of flame imaginable.
Oh, he had his fiery moments, but the overwhelming majority of his posts
were nothing if not calm and composed.
Which, of course, does NOT mean he wasn't an infuriating, slippery,
thick-skulled troublemaker with severe problems understanding and using
the logic he boasted of. If I'm going to eulogize, then by gods, I'm
going to call it exactly like I saw it - his inability to defend himself
be damned. There was nobody quite like Skyf when it came to projecting
the *appearance* of rational debate, when really all he did was chase
tangents around in circles and repeat his axioms with little regard to
the actual points his opponents were making.
And, because of that, he inadvertantly helped pull me into ATT - and, by
extension, into the online fandom as a whole. I really didn't have much
I felt like talking about when it came to TF, back in the day... but I
sure as hell could tackle these "Decepticon supporters," THAT I knew for
sure! Many of my first in-depth online TF discussions came of arguing
with Skyf, and the subjects quickly went far beyond the cartoon they
obstensively were about. What we were really debating was moral
relativism, that hoary old chestnut that philosophers have been trying
to crack for centuries. And I can genuinely say that my debates with
Skyf forced me to think deeper, longer, and more concretely about many
of my principles, and I walked away feeling enriched for it.
So just as Skyf's posts brought out some of the worst anger and flaming
this NG has to offer, they also could inspire some of the most well-
thought-out, intelligent, stimulating activity from our best and
brightest minds. Sadly, however, as the years went by, our best and
brightest grew tired, and there was little left but the standard
flamage. Still, though, Skyf weathered on, defending his views with his
trademark composure right up to the end. Whether that was inconsiderate
troll-baiting or admirable resolve is a matter of contention. All I can
say now is, its sudden and absolute absence doesn't feel right.
I never knew "Burt Ward" the fleshling... only "Skyflight" the netizen.
But he certainly had real-life family and friends, and my heart of
course goes out to all of them. As David "Walky" Willis put it so
perfectly and succinctly on the AllSpark, "We fought a lot. But no one
deserves to die."
- Jackpot (who's sure that, if there is a God, Skyf is right now
doggedly trying to prove to Him that He doesn't exist.)
--
| To contact me, please e-mail aquamandible [at] yahoo [dot] com.
|
|
| Art portfolio - TF and more:
|
| _ _ ______ http://spektakle.com ______ _ _
"The `k's are for the kwality!"
CoolSlider
He knows what I mean.
--
Bryce
Nightbird
Even though you've had disagreements with Raksha in the past I think
you should have respect for Skyflight and for Raksha, she lost someone
dear to her and I've lost friends dear to me in the past. When someone
dies it's not a Joke, so show some respect. Oh and even though a lot
of Fans say shit about Raksha, she's always been nice to me. So give
her a break, she going through the lost of a friend she needs that.
-Nightbird
Daniel Suh
Nightbird wrote:
> Even though you've had disagreements with Raksha in the past I think
> you should have respect for Skyflight and for Raksha, she lost someone
> dear to her and I've lost friends dear to me in the past. When someone
> dies it's not a Joke, so show some respect.
Just like how Raksha showed respect for everyone in the memorial thread by
calling them "pondscum", accusing them of grave dancing, and dictating how
and where they should express their sadness and condolences?
Whatever.
Susp
"A life without risk is a life without reward." -Groundshaker
metalsquid
<ne...@protoformproject.com> wrote:
>On 3 August, 2003, Burt "Skyflight" Ward passed away from terminal cancer at
>Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28. He was known as
>a proud and loyal friend to Raksha, and other persons who regularly attended
>the 'Transformers: Decepticon Dominion' mush, as well as an outspoken fan of
>the Decepticon faction of the original Transformers: Cartoon.
>
>I'll let others speak on him and his passing, but I wanted to carry the news
>through to alt.toys.transformers.
>
>Neale Davidson
>
damn.... i only knew him from #wiigii! and though i was only a
semi-regular and not one of the 'in-crowd', he was the only one who
ever made me feel welcome, chatted with me for any great length and
never treated me like some outsider nobody. whatever his personal
views/beliefs were i could care less, to me he seemed a kind and
genuine person. we had exchanged a few e-mails and once i even helped
him to get a vintage MISB item from my neck of the woods. he even let
me open it up to play with before i sent it to him. i had just
intended to get back in contact with him recently regarding our mails
years ago and now this shocking news... although i barely knew him and
could hardly call him a friend i am nonetheless deeply saddened by
this tragic news and i feel it is a great loss to the community.
RIP "Skyflight"
- Shockwave_
Desperado00
>Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
Sad news indeed. I didn't know Skyflight except for a few rather...unsavory
moments here on ATT, but I have no doubt that he was a good person. It's
always sad to hear about someone that young dying, but even worse with
something like cancer. My condolences to his family and friends.
-----
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
An egotist is a self-made man who worships his creator.
If we aren't meant to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?
No horse is too dead to beat.
Exatron
>> >This post just makes me even more sad than I already was
>>
>> What makes me the saddest is that he wasted his time being a
>> friend to that
>> turd.
>> How in the world does that vindictive b*tch get through a single
>> day without
>> being dragged off to the looney bin? ---
>>
>> Retardomontalban
>> Lifeguard of the gene pool
>
> Even though you've had disagreements with Raksha in the past I think
> you should have respect for Skyflight and for Raksha, she lost
> someone dear to her and I've lost friends dear to me in the past.
She will have to earn that respect first.
> When someone dies it's not a Joke, so show some respect.
Nobody said that Skyflight's death is a joke(although, death can be
funny in some circumstances), and Raksha has demonstrated numerous
times that she is nothing more than a blight upon the fandom.
> Oh and even though a lot of Fans say shit about Raksha, she's always
> been nice to me.
You've either never disagreed with her or haven't known her very long
then.
> So give her a break, she going through the lost of a friend she
> needs that.
None of that excuses her misbehavior and general disrespect for
others.
I didn't have a positive opinion of Skyflight from what little I've
read of him, but I'm still saddened by his death.
--
Exatron
"Reach for the stars, but never leave your friends." - Cosmos
The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Neale Davidson
> needs that.
It seemed like she was more upset about someone else daring
to mourn without purchasing the copyright to Burt's death from
her. Apparently she had a contract of ownership over him.
Neale Davidson
Darwinian Road Kill
cc'd to e-mail.
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Raksha wrote:
> On 5 Aug 2003 00:50:14 -0700, nebkh...@hotmail.com (Tut) wrote:
> (snip)
> Would you look at what crawled out from the slime and the ooze. My
> my.
You probably don't know me all that well, though we've spoken. I've stood
up for you on a few occaisions here, though perhaps not with the same
fervour as Skyf. After all, I *am* a Beast-liking Neutralist. That said,
I've often felt you received far too much condemnation, considering your
many positive contributions to the fandom. ("How many of her critics have
run a convention?", I ask.)
And whilke I don't know the full details of your split with Tut (nor, I
hasten to add, do I wish to), I know full well that ours is one of the
most riven fandoms about in pop-culture.
But Skyflight, your staunchest defender, one willing to put his own
reputation on the line to rewrite the ATTCM FAQ to cover for you, is no
more.
When many of his fiercest opponents lay down their keyboards in respect to
a worthy adversary, what do you do? You charge in and try to scrap like
slargs with your personal nemesis. Is this how you honour the memory of
your friend and comrade-in-arms?
I don't expect this from one who claims to embody the virtues of an
honourable Decepticon warrior. Perhaps from the rampaging sociopaths that
cluttered the end of the original toyline, sure. But I don't beleive you
ever listed them as examples to follow.
> Thanks, Neale, for encouraging the pondscum to rise up and dance on
> the grave.
As Neale himself pointed out, that hasn't happened yet. So I don't fathom
why you felt the need to crank up the flamethrower and growl "bring it!".
We are a fandom riven, it's true. And yet, I actually see some hope,
considering. I mean, I myself had e-mail sessions with Skyflight in which
we each walked away thinking the other was certifiable. (I will not share
the details, other than to say it was not about anything TF-related.) I
do not rejoice in his demise. Nor have any of the "usual suspects". Quite
the opposite. It gives me hope, if I may be so bold.
Or it did before your behaviour in this post. You're not obliged to kiss
and make up with Tut, no-one can make you feel other than you feel. And
yet I must ask: Have you become unhinged? While Skyflight gladly partook
of cut and thrust until night unto the end, do you seriously think he
would have wanted his passing marked by more of the blinding hatred that
has marred us so?
Perhaps it's easier for me to say this, as I'm not as directly
involved. If *my* nemesis (you all know of whom I speak) were to offer
sympathies upon the passing of a friend, I know I would doubt the
genuniness of his motives. I would like to think I would have more sense
than to slam an entire newsgroup because of my doubts and suspicions.
> Those of you who'd like to express *genuine* sympathies, may I request
> you do so on ATTCM, the group Skyflight helped to create? Posting
> them here is (depending on the source) well-meaning but misguided at
> best, and a sick and monstrous outrage at worst, given how this group
> never did anything but relentlessly attack him and everything he
> believed in. Right up until the end, he was receiving hate-mail from
> the inhabitants of good old ATT.
As I said, he engaged in debate right up until the end, he fought the good
fight, for himself and for you, and did not use his illness as a
psychological crutch. There's no doubt he was a true warrior, even if text
was his prime weapon. Silicon Valhalla no doubt awaits him, with a squad
of Decepticon medics, to boot.
I understand that, having lost a true friend, you must be feeling many
different things right now. Grief, loss, rage... You don't have to let
them consume you and your honour, though.
Perhaps the best thing, if you've read this far, if you'll accept the
advice of a Beast-liking Neutralist, is to look long and hard for the best
way to remember your fallen comrade.
I'm fairly sure carrying on a fight with your personal opponent
does not qualify.
Ryan
"People who like penguins are nice people" -- Eric Bennett
(Fact: If my .sig gets over 10 lines, you can hit me)
My half-baked site: www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/8720
TF code: G++ AD/A OP/Q P212 ICQ:43171844
Jess
>to mourn without purchasing the copyright to Burt's death from
>her. Apparently she had a contract of ownership over him.
>
*ouch*
No more sigs for me. Really. Never.
Please remove pants to contact me.
http://hometown.aol.com/itsjesseb/beastwarsguide.html
Kil aka Michael McCarthy
to send it here until now]
[Note to ATT: Everyone who posted a memorial message here really should a send
a copy of it to ATTCM. My newsreader shows _seven_ posts in the thread over
there. It just doesn't make sense to post these here and not send it there as
well, even if you weren't an active participant in that group.]
A few hours ago, I did something I haven't done in years. I cried. Briefly, it
should be said. Very briefly. But I didn't even let myself do that for 9/11.
And for the passing of a man I didn't even know. I mean, I didn't know him,
only knew of him, from ATT, and of course later ATTCM. In fact, I can't even
remember if we ever communicated directly with one another, even just on the
newsgroups.
What I do know is that I've always respected and admired the man, despite
general disagreement with so much of his expressed views. He was thoughtful and
direct in the debates, always a forceful advocate for his position. Skyflight
was unquestionably worthy of being considered one of the group's "Elders",
unquestionably an asset to the fandom.
When the idea of ATTCM first came up, I seem to recall being in opposition to
it, as in my mind there is no separation of G1 and Beast Wars. But, I would
soon realize, this was no reason to oppose a group dedicated to the classics,
as my view of Transformers is my own, and all others are equally entitled to
their own.
Indeed even as a rabid BW-lover, it wasn't long before it became clear that
ATTCM was an extremely valuable addition to the online TransFan world. The
combination of a narrower focus and moderation would often times see it rise
far above good ol' (but noisy) ATT as a place to read and participate in some
high-quality discussion.
Now, this was about three years ago. I've only relatively recently returned to
the online world, and to this here fandom that I love, after being gone since
mid-2000. I never participated in it nearly as much as I could wish for, never
really forged any lastings bonds. But the whole time I was away, there was
never any doubt in my mind that I'd be back, some day.
And I've always figured, that some day, I'd have the means to make it to
BotCon, and there I'd be able to meet a lot of these people who form this
community of shared interests that's been such a wonderful addition to my life
since I stumbled into it back in '97. To put faces and voices to names and
text. To shake the hands of people I truly, truly admire and feel such genuine
affection for.
And now I'll never get that chance with one of them, and that is a loss that I
feel deeply.
And I know that that can't even begin to compare to the pain that those closest
to Burt are feeling. My condolences to his loved ones. As I said, I cannot say
that I knew him, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that he will be
missed, by myself, and by many others.
-Kil
Decepticons forever...... After all, it's not much of a story without them.
--------
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote: 'the world is a fine place, and worth fighting
for'. I agree with the second part."
-Detective Lt. William Somerset (Morgan Freeman), "Seven"
Vindicator
That really wasn't called for.
Raksha
<hr...@interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
>cc'd to e-mail.
Which is where I found it.
>You probably don't know me all that well, though we've spoken.
Of course I know who you are.
>And whilke I don't know the full details of your split with Tut (nor, I
>hasten to add, do I wish to), I know full well that ours is one of the
>most riven fandoms about in pop-culture.
>
>But Skyflight, your staunchest defender, one willing to put his own
>reputation on the line to rewrite the ATTCM FAQ to cover for you, is no
>more.
That statement is absolute bullshit, as have been so many other
falsehoods spewn out about both Skyflight and the newsgroup, and I
won't dignify it with a response.
>When many of his fiercest opponents lay down their keyboards in respect to
>a worthy adversary, what do you do? You charge in and try to scrap like
>slargs with your personal nemesis. Is this how you honour the memory of
>your friend and comrade-in-arms?
If I *hadn't* done so, I'd have completely *dishonored* his memory.
By your own admission you don't know the details of Tut's crime, and
by your own admission you're not a Decepticon fan, so you cannot fully
comprehend what it really signified - how completely and totally
*in*appropriate it was for someone of such an utterly craven and
honorless nature, someone who malevolently slandered Skyflight's
favorite character in the process of betraying us and herself, to make
any statement whatsoever upon the passing of someone who lived for the
precise *opposite* of what she is.
>I don't expect this from one who claims to embody the virtues of an
>honourable Decepticon warrior.
Then you clearly have no clue as to what it means to be a Decepticon.
It means *loyalty*, honor, and courage. It means *defending one's
own*. It means everything that Tut desecrated when she betrayed the
cause and our common battle, and thus she's the *last* person
qualified to open her yap on this particular topic. And *that* had to
be said in no uncertain terms.
>You're not obliged to kiss
>and make up with Tut, no-one can make you feel other than you feel. And
>yet I must ask: Have you become unhinged? While Skyflight gladly partook
>of cut and thrust until night unto the end, do you seriously think he
>would have wanted his passing marked by more of the blinding hatred that
>has marred us so?
I can guarantee you he'd never have wanted me to let such an insult
pass without comment. I know he'd have done the same for me.
>Perhaps it's easier for me to say this, as I'm not as directly
>involved.
Precisely.
> If *my* nemesis (you all know of whom I speak) were to offer
>sympathies upon the passing of a friend, I know I would doubt the
>genuniness of his motives. I would like to think I would have more sense
>than to slam an entire newsgroup because of my doubts and suspicions.
Ah, but if an entire newsgroup had done nothing but attack said
friend, I assure you you'd feel differently toward it. Most of all,
when the most glaring example of filth and disloyalty crawls out of
the muck in order to use the occasion to shove herself into the
spotlight, you would feel very differently. Were *you* in my
situation, you might have some notion of the response such an outrage
deserved. Seeing as you're *not* in my situation, since you clearly
*don't* understand the nature of Decepticon honor, it's not your place
to judge.
>I understand that, having lost a true friend, you must be feeling many
>different things right now. Grief, loss, rage... You don't have to let
>them consume you and your honour, though.
My honor is intact. It would be in tatters if I hadn't said what I
said.
>Perhaps the best thing, if you've read this far, if you'll accept the
>advice of a Beast-liking Neutralist, is to look long and hard for the best
>way to remember your fallen comrade.
I don't need your advice on that topic.
>I'm fairly sure carrying on a fight with your personal opponent
>does not qualify.
You're wrong. When that "opponent" (that's not even the right term
for such a pathetic traitor) spit upon everything that Skyflight stood
for by her very existence, you better believe it had to be said. I
would have been criminally remiss not to do so.
End of Story, as far as I'm concerned. Don't bother to e-mail me
about it again.
--Raksha
Come to the REAL BotCon! June 2004, Pasadena CA
--------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
--------------------------------------------------------
All-time favorite Transformer: Soundwave ("The secrets
of the Universe reveal themselves to those who listen.")
--------------------------------------------------------
ATTCM - the Transformers at their best!
(request alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated
from: postmaster@<your provider's address>)
Neale Davidson
When she made her comment, she attacked me for the sole
reason that /she/ would get to say who and where the news
of Burt's death would be spread. She went on a hate-filled
diatribe denouncing /everyone/ on this newsgroup as
'pondscum' as well as several other comments.
She also then advertised her site as the 'real' place for mourning,
saying that anyone who didn't mourn on her site was not being
sincere about their feelings.
I'll say again my feelings on this matter. I've never seen
something so dispicable as turning a friend's, and I guess
I have to use that term loosely now, death into an advertisement
for a newsgroup, or as fuel for a hate-fest that had very little
to do with him.
Neale Davidson
Neale Davidson
I do.
It means to be a fictional cartoon character in a television series.
That's /it/.
Neale Davidson
Daniel Suh
> Then you clearly have no clue as to what it means to be a Decepticon.
I do. It means backstabbing, cowardice, cruelty, deceit, exploitation,
genocide, theft, treachery, and retreating every time the tiniest wrench
gets thrown into one's plans. In short, it means evil.
Thankfully, it's cartoon evil, so I can just sit back and enjoy it.
> Ah, but if an entire newsgroup had done nothing but attack said
> friend, I assure you you'd feel differently toward it.
When you say "entire newsgroup", you are viciously insulting the many fans
who earnestly, calmly, and patiently debated Skyflight over numerous issues
on countless occasions. Fans like Steve-o Stonebraker, Thylacine 2000,
Jackpot, and Merytneith to name but a few.
You owe this newsgroup an apology.
Susp
"To build is to grow." -Crumble
Zaku II
>Neale Davidson wrote:
>>>So give her a break, she going through the lost of a friend she
>>>needs that.
>>
>>
>> It seemed like she was more upset about someone else daring
>> to mourn without purchasing the copyright to Burt's death from
>> her. Apparently she had a contract of ownership over him.
>>
>>
>
>That really wasn't called for.
>
And Raksha's message to a.t.t. and to Tut *were* called for?
I think Neale's point was pretty clear. And with Raksha calling the whole of
a.t.t. slime, as well as her hyper-critical message to Tut, was very
innapropriate (to say the least).
Do Skyflight a favor, Vindicator, and show him the respect he deserves, and
keep the flames and fight messages to email where they belong.
-Sean Kneeland
http://members.aol.com/zaku2ms06/main.html
I'm coco for Ca-Ca Puffs!
Pyre
<snip>
Jesus Christ. Can we stop this please? A man just died. No one cares
about any petty fueds. Take it to e-mail and leave it at e-mail. Let's
show some fucking respect.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"I feel my world shake, like an earthquake.
Hard to see clear. Is it me, is it fear?
Madly in Anger with you. I'm madly in anger with you."
Zaku II
>You owe this newsgroup an apology.
From Raksha?
The only thing I can think of is this quote from Babylon 5;
"You'd better check the temperature in Hell first!" ~ Commander Sinclair to Dr.
Franklin
Zaku II
>Raksha wrote:
><snip>
>
>Jesus Christ. Can we stop this please? A man just died. No one cares
>about any petty fueds. Take it to e-mail and leave it at e-mail. Let's
>show some fucking respect.
Yeah, but you're saying this to a Decepticon. Or someone who *thinks* they're a
Decepticon. Anyways, point is, Decepticons don't care about others. Raksha's
posts in this thread are undeniable proof of it.
Jess
experience, yet she finds a way to *once again* vent her idiocy, at a mere slip
of the tounge. I just wonder what has happened in her life that has turned her
into such a miserable, spiteful creature. I mean really......I hate to see
someone with obvious talent waste it in hate and anger. Jeez!
Subject: Re: [OTFCC] Friday report
From: Rak...@plumed-serpent.com (Raksha)
Date: 8/7/2003 7:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time
Message-id: <3f3306d1...@news.panix.com>
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 23:42:54 +0000 (UTC), jlva...@yahoo.com (JLvatron)
wrote:
> Although I had booked my BotCon hotel room last August,
>cirmcumstances made it difficult for my actual plans to attend. I
>wound up deciding to go just the Tuesday before Botcon.
I found this post a little confusing, seeing as there was no BotCon
this year. Finally I realized I had to substitute the ... erm,
"acronym" in place of the word "BotCon."
--Raksha
Come to the REAL BotCon! June 2004, Pasadena CA
--------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
--------------------------------------------------------
All-time favorite Transformer: Soundwave ("The secrets
of the Universe reveal themselves to those who listen.")
--------------------------------------------------------
ATTCM - the Transformers at their best!
(request alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated
from: postmaster@<your provider's address>)
Daniel Suh
>> You owe this newsgroup an apology.
>
> From Raksha?
Oh, I was merely pointing out what anyone with even an iota of honor and
integrity would do---I certainly don't expect that from Jovanka Kink. She
also owes Glen Hallit a big fat apology for all the horrid lies she spread
about him, but I'm not waiting around for that either.
She really is a Decepticon at heart (or whatever's in her chest cavity) in
that regard.
Susp
"Decepticon destruction is my favorite sport...and mine too." -Doublecross
kingdom2000
around '97? (BW season 1 era) and you find post almost identical to
this thread. And Raksha posts and posts against her where equally as
amusing. Just do what I did then and what I do now...just laugh.
Cause anyone who takes TFs as seriously as she does is well... anyway
laughter is the best approach.
"Neale Davidson" <ne...@protoformproject.com> wrote in message news:<j1CYa.2044$2Y6.6...@news2.news.adelphia.net>...
cappeca
> On 3 August, 2003, Burt "Skyflight" Ward passed away from terminal cancer at
> Hubbard Hospice House in Charleston, Ohio at the age of 28.
I was a friend of Skyflight. He taught me that one can endure long
arguments and still be nice. May he rest in peace.
Cesar.
Eric
Eh, Raksha is, as has been stated for years, a vindictive bitch. All I
can say is someone better wrest control of ATTCM from her before she
inevitably runs it into the ground. Either that or the regular posting
members of ATTCM better get used to the sound of a cracking whip.
ATTCM was Burt's baby and now that baby's future is bleak to say the
least.
-Eric-
Sky Shadow
> - Jackpot (who's sure that, if there is a God, Skyf is right now
> doggedly trying to prove to Him that He doesn't exist.)
Or, at the very least, that His real name is Star Drive. ;)
Sky Shadow.
--
"Jazz, you more than any other Autobot is prepared for what lies ahead"
The grammatically challenged Optimus Prime, from issue #2 of *Transformers:
War and Peace*.
Vindicator
I replied to this via e-mail. I trust that those who counted him
Skyflight as a personal friend will understand.
Zaku II
>I replied to this via e-mail. I trust that those who counted him
>Skyflight as a personal friend will understand.
>
Believe it or not, I appreciated your message. I don't know if this will count
for anything, but for what it's worth, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
Take care.