Transformers Movie Ratchet Robot Mode Revealed
iron...@earthlink.net
Good Christ, my heart sinks further with each image I see of the
characters in this film. It looks like Rock Lords: The Movie, not
Transformers. Each character looks like they're made of aluminum that's
been forced through a meat grinder. Even if the movie turns out to have
a great story, I now believe I'm going to avoid it like the plague
because of the visual atrocities our favorite characters have been
turned into. I know the producers have insisted we wait until we see
the final product because there will be CGI enhancements, yadda yadda
yadda, but come on, these designs are what we're getting. Was is that -
WAS IS THAT HARD - to come up with designs that bore a closer physical
resemblance to the classic characters? Something like the Alternators
toyline or Classics would have been fantastic. Hollywood has a proven
reputation for mucking up almost everything it adapts and the
Transformers have not been spared. The producers and a number of fans
will sneer at my viewpoint and say we need to accept change and can't
let go of our fanboy love of the past. But there's a big difference
between good change and piss-poor ugly change. Screw you, Michael Bay
and other parties responsible. This is more about them having to make
the movie their own and taking ownership of the ideas. As big time
movie producers, they of course know better than a fandom that has
lasted for over 20 years. They might have listened to fan input in
making the film, which is great, but they obviously didn't listen that
hard because they've gotten the visual aesthetic totally wrong.
Autobus Prime
iron...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Hollywood has a proven
> reputation for mucking up almost everything it adapts and the
> Transformers have not been spared.
ih:
Dueling threads? Bud-a-ring-ding-ding...DUNKA DUNK DUNK DUNK...
For some reason the Sherman Dam dialogue came to mind
when I read this.
"You destroy everything you touch, Hollywood!"
"That's because everything I touch is food for my hunger! My hunger
for product placement! And merchandising!"
Cordially yours:
Autobus Prime
w/minicon Farebox.
Tobias Fünke
I want to cry :(
robo_rob
iron...@earthlink.net
robo_rob wrote:
> I quite like it.
I think the design looks fine for some random Japanese mecha anime but
it's barely Transformers and definitely not Ratchet.
JLB
That is very frustrating. For some reason they apparently want to
dehumanize most of the robots' faces. I don't quite understand why.
To me the front of his face looks like a dinosaur which I don't see as
much better than looking human.
Hell if they're going to adapt 95% of their bodies to be able to blend
in, why not adapt the remaining 5% to leave the natives more at ease if
they're discovered by doing things like makeing five fingered hands and
humanoid faces.
I fail to see how these designs are any more or less appealing than the
previous standard for TF designs. I also think if they're going to
reuse names they should reflect previous versions of the characters.
Otherwise there are plenty of names out there that have little to no
history. FOr example Overhaul was used by one character for half a
year, and it makes plenty of sense for a Transformer medic.
JLB
ghos...@gmail.com
my love for transformers is recoginizing vehicle parts and such.
However, I am starting to realize that big blocky robots probably won't
animate especially well, so I am starting to accept the new designs. I
still don't like the alien faces though.
-JB
Thylacine 2000
iron...@earthlink.net wrote:
> WAS IS THAT HARD - to come up with designs that bore a closer physical
> resemblance to the classic characters? Something like the Alternators
> toyline or Classics would have been fantastic.
Alternators and Classics would both have looked like garbage up on the
big screen next to live-action humans. Frankly, just about every TF
design EXCEPT those used for this movie would look like cheap toy trash
in real life, and the audience would laugh at them.
All of the cartoons have pretended that the Transformers can perform a
human-like range of body movement, even though their bodies are
routinely covered with giant metallic plates unchanged from their
altmodes. The Alternators are especially guilty of this. You can't
bend a car hood, therefore, a live-action Alternator would be unable to
move or compress its upper body at all, and most couldn't walk without
wobbling and tipping every which way like a toddler using a kickboard.
They'd all look like Power Rangers zords or the T-1000, and either way
would not be believable as living things.
The movie models shred the TFs' exostructures into very small jointed
pieces. That allows them to be alien robots capable of the range of
movement needed to move, fight, and emote.
If you can show me any other Transformers design that would be capable
of running at full speed, leaping forwards and grabbing something, or
throwing an object like a baseball, without having its metal body parts
either morph or crack, I would be willing to look at it. But I've
never seen one before the movie designers tried.
JLB
You're limiting them to human rules, or maybe even just animal ones.
Why would they tip?
Personally I never wanted a live action TF movie. Just give me another
show with traditional animation.
JLB
Julian Kelley
This movie is going to be one of those disasterous affairs discussed in
hushed tones by shuddering fans for decades afterwards.
I dread its release more than the coming apocolypse it most surely
heralds.
-Ray Kelley
Chad Rushing
>
> For some reason the Sherman Dam dialogue came to mind
> when I read this.
>
> "You destroy everything you touch, Hollywood!"
>
> "That's because everything I touch is food for my hunger! My hunger
> for product placement! And merchandising!"
OK, now, that was just sheer brilliance. I hope that post gets
nominated for a Trannie Award.
- Chad
Chad Rushing
>
> Personally I never wanted a live action TF movie. Just give me another
> show with traditional animation.
Agreed. Traditional Transformers, like so many other sci-fi/fantasy
universes (ex. He-Man), just doesn't transfer to "real life" very well.
Having the Transformers presented in animation only, whether cels or
CGI, has always allowed the TFs to get around all those physics-ish
problems that Thylacine mentions, and that lack of hard realism to TFs
is the presentation I will always prefer. If I wanted realism, I would
not be collecting toys and watching cartoons intended for juveniles as
a hobby.
- Chad
painedforever
> All of the cartoons have pretended that the Transformers can perform a
> human-like range of body movement, even though their bodies are
> routinely covered with giant metallic plates unchanged from their
> altmodes. The Alternators are especially guilty of this. You can't
> bend a car hood, therefore, a live-action Alternator would be unable to
> move or compress its upper body at all, and most couldn't walk without
> wobbling and tipping every which way like a toddler using a kickboard.
> They'd all look like Power Rangers zords or the T-1000, and either way
> would not be believable as living things.
I'm going to disagree with that. I saw this one ad a few years ago for
a Citroen, in which the car transforms into a definite Alternators
Transformers form, and starts dancing around. It didn't look very bad
or ugly, and looked distinctively Transformers-ish.
iron...@earthlink.net
of the Transformers would be as difficult to pull off as you're saying.
First of all, the bodies could be more solid without looking like
shredded shrapnel. Secondly, and I think most importantly, the faces
could at least resemble the characters we know. I think if the Ratchet
design had a head that looked like Ratchet, the fact that we could
recognize the face would make the design much easier to digest.
SteveD
<iron...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>WAS IS THAT HARD - to come up with designs that bore a closer physical
>resemblance to the classic characters?
The individuals, or the overall aesthetic?
I don't really care if Movie Prime looks like G1 Prime - there have been
enough variations amongst leader toys over the past 20+ years. However,
having the 'look' of the movie toys being totally different from anything
previously marketed as Transformers is a little disconcerting.
Yeah, they do kind of look like they've been through a shredder or trash
compactor.
I think what disappoints me most is that they've taken one of the easy
ways out, the same way some of the Alternators designs did. The more
separate parts you have in a design, the easier it is to make the two
modes look like anything you want. Eventually you get down to the level of
Lego. And when it can look like anything, it often looks like nothing.
One of the great aspects of Transformers, especially those with
Earth-based altmodes, is that you could usually instantly tell from the
robot mode what they turned into. With the Movie designs, you're often
left guessing - "Is that a headlight? I think there's a wheel somewhere in
there. How are the shoulders hinged?"
-SteveD
SteveD
wrote:
>The movie models shred the TFs' exostructures into very small jointed
>pieces. That allows them to be alien robots capable of the range of
>movement needed to move, fight, and emote.
That's not so much the problem. The problem is that the shredded parts
don't form anything iconic or recognisable in robot mode. They're just
scattered randomly over a sea of joints and cables.
I don't have an issue with the designs having more joints and gaps in the
plating to allow a wider range of motion. Heck, use plates which slide
over one another or feather as necessary. Just give us a semi-solid visual
focus for the characters instead of making them all a shifting mess of
internal wiring and floating scraps of shell.
Who knows - maybe there will be CGI on top of it which gives them more
individual and solid looks. Maybe these are only the interior designs.
Can't really tell until next year.
-SteveD
Cappeca
> Alternators and Classics would both have looked like garbage up on the
> big screen next to live-action humans. Frankly, just about every TF
> design EXCEPT those used for this movie would look like cheap toy trash
> in real life, and the audience would laugh at them.
Bullshit.
Punch/Counterpunch
-Punch/Counterpunch, who KNOWS that the original G1 Transformer designs
(or something that resembles them) are what people remember and REALLY
want to see.
Gustavo Wombat
> On 2 Dec 2006 07:42:04 -0800, "iron...@earthlink.net"
> <iron...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >WAS IS THAT HARD - to come up with designs that bore a closer physical
> >resemblance to the classic characters?
>
> The individuals, or the overall aesthetic?
>
> I don't really care if Movie Prime looks like G1 Prime - there have been
> enough variations amongst leader toys over the past 20+ years.
Name one Optimus Prime toy that doesn't look like Optimus Prime.
Ok, fine, Gobots Optimus Prime. Name two then.
Ok, fine, the Prototype Optimus Prime from the movie preview, but that
one's kind of the point.
Optimus Prime tends to have a very distinctive, iconic look about him.
Blue shins, red torso and arms, traditional prime head, and "windows"
and "grill" on the chest (sometimes real, sometimes fake). There have
been a few that deviate a little bit here and there -- Laser Op, for
instance, has a grey torso -- but for the most part, every toy designed
as Optimus Prime has kept the head and 3/4ths of the rest. And, they
all look distinctive and different.
Megatrons, on the other hand, they go all over the place style-wise.
>However,
> having the 'look' of the movie toys being totally different from anything
> previously marketed as Transformers is a little disconcerting.
>
> Yeah, they do kind of look like they've been through a shredder or trash
> compactor.
> One of the great aspects of Transformers, especially those with
> Earth-based altmodes, is that you could usually instantly tell from the
> robot mode what they turned into.
This is what I love about the G2 Autorollers Dirtbag and Roadblock --
they don't pretend to be anything in robot mode other than a shovel or
dump truck that suddenly came to life. (The G2 Autorollers were the
first vintage toys that I bought in my adult collecting, so they have a
special place in my heart anyway).
> With the Movie designs, you're often
> left guessing - "Is that a headlight? I think there's a wheel somewhere in
> there. How are the shoulders hinged?"
Undifferentiated mess of parts -- anyone can do any movement if they're
a jumble of undifferentiated parts. They might as well jump to the next
level and have everyone morph like the fancy terminator. (As an aside,
it actually might be nifty if the traditional 4 million year old
Transformers eventually discovered that there already was one hidden
Transformers war on Earth, fought by much more advanced Transformers,
possibly faux humans that morph into any damned thing)
It's similar to my feelings about music -- anyone can slap something
together with a whole lot of notes, but it's very special to find
something beautiful created out of just a few notes.
--Gustavo
Chad Rushing
>
> (As an aside,
> it actually might be nifty if the traditional 4 million year old
> Transformers eventually discovered that there already was one hidden
> Transformers war on Earth, fought by much more advanced Transformers,
> possibly faux humans that morph into any damned thing)
I can see it now ... TRANSFORMERS II: INVASION OF THE PRETENDERS ...
"Oh, no! Your fiancé is actually a transforming robot from an alien
world! No wonder his mouth never moves when he speaks and he's always
flirting with your parents' station wagon! DUM Dum dummmmmm."
I hope the robots inside the Pretender shells have better vehicle modes
this time around. The G1 ones were iffy at best.
- Chad
(yeah, I should have gone to sleep hours ago.)
Thylacine 2000
I think you ought to re-watch it. It's easy to find on YouTube. The
robot parts appear out of nowhere during transformation, and in robot
mode they phase and fold through one another. Also the "robot mode" is
basically some silver pipe cleaners that form a thin frame between
enormous chunks of uselessly, obtrusively huge hanging car parts.
Steven Acevedo
>. Hollywood has a proven reputation for mucking up
>> almost everything it adapts and the Transformers have not been
>> spared. The producers and a number of fans will sneer at my viewpoint
>> and say we need to accept change and can't let go of our fanboy love
>> of the past. But there's a big difference between good change and
>> piss-poor ugly change. Screw you, Michael Bay and other parties
>> responsible. This is more about them having to make the movie their
>> own and taking ownership of the ideas. As big time movie producers,
>> they of course know better than a fandom that has lasted for over 20
>> years. They might have listened to fan input in making the film,
>> which is great, but they obviously didn't listen that hard because
>> they've gotten the visual aesthetic totally wrong.
The only thing they are prepped for is making all the money they think
they'll be getting from it.
Someone on The 2005 board made a comment that overexcited fans perhaps
want mainstream acceptance of their hobby.
.
You know what? That's not going to happen. I wanted that a long time
ago and I realized that no matter how hard any of us tries. The public
at large won't get us.
Chad Rushing
>
> Someone on The 2005 board made a comment that overexcited fans perhaps
> want mainstream acceptance of their hobby.
> .
> You know what? That's not going to happen. I wanted that a long time
> ago and I realized that no matter how hard any of us tries. The public
> at large won't get us.
Agreed. Quite frankly, even friends and family I have known my entire
life, people who generally have a very high opinion of me, still look
at me askance when my toy collecting hobby comes up in conversation or
when they visit my apartment (which has TFs visible at every turn).
To most people in our society, toys is something in which they
completely lost interest some time in their early teens, regardless of
how richly developed or imaginative the toys' "universes" may be and no
matter how marvelous the toys' engineering may be. Even my nearly-12
year old nice has recently lost all interest in her doll collections,
preferring to just play video/board games, play basketball outside, or
watch movies instead.
If the Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, X-Men, and Fantastic Four movies
did not make comic book collecting mainstream and widely accepted by
the public, then there is no way in the world that a Transformers movie
is going to do that for toy collecting.
- Chad
robo_rob
I still like them.
robo_rob, who pretty much figured this is what they would look like
since the movie was announced oh so many years ago.
meje...@hotmail.com
Someone like G1 Jazz or Prowl would be relatively easy to tip over,
due to their huge bust sizes.
Michael
SteveD
> Someone like G1 Jazz or Prowl would be relatively easy to tip over,
>due to their huge bust sizes.
Assuming they kept heavy parts of their structure in there. It could well
be mostly hollow and/or used for lightweight parts only.
Not to mention that when it comes to Transformers, inertia is something
that happens to others :)
-SteveD
SteveD
wrote:
[Dancing C4]
>I think you ought to re-watch it. It's easy to find on YouTube. The
>robot parts appear out of nowhere during transformation, and in robot
>mode they phase and fold through one another. Also the "robot mode" is
>basically some silver pipe cleaners that form a thin frame between
>enormous chunks of uselessly, obtrusively huge hanging car parts.
So it's a RiD design? *ducks thrown tomatoes*
-SteveD
Chad Rushing
>
> > Someone like G1 Jazz or Prowl would be relatively easy to tip over,
> >due to their huge bust sizes.
>
> Assuming they kept heavy parts of their structure in there. It could well
> be mostly hollow and/or used for lightweight parts only.
I have always thought that the vehicle "metal" we see on TFs is not the
same metallic alloys used in terran technology, that their bodies are
made up of substances much stronger yet much lighter than the metallic
alloys we know of. In other words, the metals that make up Jazz the
alien Transformer are not the same metals that a Porsche has when it
comes off the assembly line.
Even if they were, I would imagine that TFs have extremely advanced,
strong joints built to take the weight and balance systems that
compensate for their top-heaviness. Erect human beings are pretty
precarious gravity-wise, particularly considering how relatively heavy
our craniums are at the ends of our necks. We're like pencils standing
on their erasers. However, our balance systems (ex. semi-circular
canals) and the muscles in our lower legs -- particularly those in our
feet and ankles, I would guess -- do a great job of keeping us from
tipping over even when we are in motion ... running, jumping, and
swerving around others in crowded spaces.
How many times has someone unexpectedly run into you, but you were able
to reflexively shift your weight and adjust your footing so as to not
fall to the ground? I do not see how the same principles could not
apply for odd-shaped, asymetrical, or top-heavy Transformers, too.
- Chad
jwdl1...@blueyonder.co.uk
doesn't suffer half as much from the problems you mention.
Personally I would rather have robots that move... well... like robots
always have, have a slightly restricted movement and continue to look
recognisable, for example like Alternators, than the movie we seem to
be getting, all that needs to be done for the movie is give the
impression of better joints that have greater range then the only
obstacle they have is the reduction in motion caused by their own body
shape which some people suffer from too (trust me I know). I certainly
don't laugh at the Citroen ad, and the skater one does appear with
humans. And I would have had far less trouble getting used to a movie
like that than the bizarre designs we are now seeing!!
Another obstacle to the new designs is the shut-lines, these things are
meant to be in disguise, how many hummers have you seen with panel gaps
through the hood and in various other weird places? And don't come the
alien origin angle with me... if alien origin can justify panel gaps
disappearing in vehicle mode then it can justify ANY problem you care
to mention with transferring the Alternators design aesthetic to the
screen.
Anyway, that is all for now!
Rich
Autobus Prime
meje...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Physics.
>
> Someone like G1 Jazz or Prowl would be relatively easy to tip over,
> due to their huge bust sizes.
m@h:
Not necessarily. Any bipedal creature is inherently unstable, as is a
bicycle, and yet we see these remain upright without falling every day.
The secret is making constant, unconscious corrections to the stance.
Besides, do we know how Jazz's weight is distributed? Physics is not
just a matter of pat assertions and easy answers.
Let's also remember that both Jazz and Prowl have large feet as well
as big chests. Would that not help their stability? Well, now people
will say that the large feet will automatically make them awkward.
Frankly, I have come to realize that all these arguments are
unwinnable.
Walking mecha are after all not something we use every day, although
I am sure that somebody in Japan drives the Xabungle to work.
Cordially yours:
Autobus Prime
w/minicon Farebox.
Eric Harding
>Walking mecha are after all not something we use every day, although
>I am sure that somebody in Japan drives the Xabungle to work.
And dang it, they won't sell it to me. It would be the coolest delivery
vehicle EVER!
Although, Gallier wouldn't be bad either....
Eric
Phillip Thorne
>[...] They might as well jump to the next
>level and have everyone morph like the fancy terminator. (As an aside,
>it actually might be nifty if the traditional 4 million year old
>Transformers eventually discovered that there already was one hidden
>Transformers war on Earth, fought by much more advanced Transformers,
>possibly faux humans that morph into any damned thing)
Rather like a "Harry Potter/Buffy the Vampire Slayer" crossover fanfic
I read once, in which the two sides were totally unaware of the
magical operations of the other. Disjoint and orthogonal.
Similarly, there was a "Transformers/ST:DS9" fanfic by Lizard, back in
the Classic ATT days of c.1993, in which knowledge of the 20cen
invasion had been suppressed. (Rather like the Maximals suppressed
history from their side.)
If there was a way to apply this approach to shoehorn most of the
apparently incompatible TF series into one continuity -- i.e.,
different parties repeatedly and unknowingly return to the same
battlefield -- I'd welcome it. Unfortunately, we'd need to explain
why Earth keeps recreating a culture resembling the era of 1980-2010.
Or, there's this theory from rec.arts.drwho, c.1996, to explain
incompatible stories without resorting to rewritten history: "I don't
know why you're so fond of this planet, Doctor. After all, the
wretched things come in six-packs."
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