Rhino DVD choppy for Season 2
Liam Gibbs
During A Prime Problem and The Core, it gets incredibly choppy to the
point where I can't watch it. Is this just my DVD, my DVD player, or
is it a problem for everybody?
Scific1258
all.
You might want to get your DVD player checked out.
Smokescreen
problem with your DVD player or your disk is defective.
-----
Proud owner of Cross Cut & Road Rage! These figs kick ass!
Stop drooling on your keyboard!!
TF Count -- Total: 585 (G1: 333, G2: 10, BW: 68, BM: 37, RID: 44, foreign: 46,
Armada: 37, BC exclusives: 10), always growing. . .
Ethan Hammond
>
> I just rewatched mine too, and I didn't see any problems. Either there's
a
> problem with your DVD player or your disk is defective.
I am in concurrance, mayhaps he is using the fiend know as the PS2
DVD player!!!!
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
JDJF03
>I am in concurrance, mayhaps he is using the fiend know as the PS2
>DVD player!!!!
>
Why is that? I've been using the PS2 and all the DVDs I've watched have been
fine.
Jon-
Cartoon Quote-
"We stole man's fire and tried to hide it in our pockets"
"That was painful and dumb" - 2 Gnomes; Freakazoid ("Lawn Gnomes IV: Fun in
the Sun").
necrotron
"Ethan Hammond" <esha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:M3Cpa.41504$cO3.3...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Smokescreen" <dels...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >
> > I just rewatched mine too, and I didn't see any problems. Either
there's
> a
> > problem with your DVD player or your disk is defective.
>
> I am in concurrance, mayhaps he is using the fiend know as the PS2
> DVD player!!!!
No kidding? I thought it was just mine. It works great on about 90 percent
of the discs I own. When it doesn't work right, the soundtrack gets ahead
of the video, or it gets choppy. I operate mine in "upright mode" without
any sort of stand (it's wedged inbetween some books) so that might be the
problem. My computer's DVD drive has no problems with the discs that the
PS2 hates, nor does my integrated dvd player/tv combo unit. Weird. And
it's not like I've even used the PS2 that much.
Joe
necr...@lycos.com
keeper of the faith,
...and your little dog, too!
Ethan Hammond
>
> >I am in concurrance, mayhaps he is using the fiend know as the PS2
> >DVD player!!!!
> >
>
> Why is that? I've been using the PS2 and all the DVDs I've watched have
been
> fine.
Knew it I did, mmmm.
Goldbug
"necrotron" <necr...@biteme.spambot.com> wrote:
I hear that is really bad for discs.
--
reply to post as spammers have infiltrated my email box
after Saddam we're going after SPAMMERS!
Gregatron
tracks to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE in the set this time when Zobovor
*specifically* asked them not to is unforgivable.
I am furious.
I hate Rhino. The people in charge of these DVDs are incompetent
fools.
I suggest we boycott them or send in a massive letter campaign.
If people out there think this is the way the episodes are *supposed*
to be on DVD, they're wrong.
We need to make our voices heard.
- Gregatron
Desperado00
Why? I'm amazed they're rereleasing the episodes at all. Without them, I'd
have never gotten to see Rebirth from beginning to end. I'm quite happy with
Rhino.
Of course, I can't speak to the quality of their DVD's, as I am still with DVD
capability.
-----
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
An egotist is a self-made man who worships his creator.
If we aren't meant to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?
No horse is too dead to beat.
Zobovor the Towel Technician
>The fact that they added "new" (crappy) sounds to BOTH 5.1 and 2.0
>tracks to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE in the set this time when Zobovor
>*specifically* asked them not to is unforgivable.
Not that they *have* to do anything I ask them to, of course. I'm just the guy
who occasionally provides them with historical information and the occasional
title card screen capture. I've made suggestions here and there, but they're
well within their rights to use or ignore 'em as they see fit.
I will just say that *they* were the ones who proposed limiting the new sound
effects to the 5.1 channel for future collections, not me. The fact that they
assured me they would do this and then to turn around and do just the
*opposite* instead... *that's* what really bugs me.
Well, at least I still have my battered old Sci-Fi Channel episodes.
--
Dave Edwards
zob...@aol.com
ShadowWing
"necrotron" wrote
>
> No kidding? I thought it was just mine. It works great on about 90
percent
> of the discs I own. When it doesn't work right, the soundtrack gets ahead
> of the video, or it gets choppy.
I don't know if it's the fact that I'm not using surround sound, but the
Hot Wheels World Race DVD had the sound ahead of the video on the 5.0 side,
but matched up fine on the other soundtrack. I haven't gotten the S2pt2 DVDs
yet.
--
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Gregatron
> >The fact that they added "new" (crappy) sounds to BOTH 5.1 and 2.0
> >tracks to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE in the set this time when Zobovor
> >*specifically* asked them not to is unforgivable.
> >
> >I am furious.
> >
> >I hate Rhino. The people in charge of these DVDs are incompetent
> >fools.
> >
> >I suggest we boycott them or send in a massive letter campaign.
> >
> >If people out there think this is the way the episodes are *supposed*
> >to be on DVD, they're wrong.
> >
> >
> >We need to make our voices heard.
>
> Why? I'm amazed they're rereleasing the episodes at all. Without them, I'd
> have never gotten to see Rebirth from beginning to end. I'm quite happy with
> Rhino.
>
Of course, when the released The Rebirth the *first* time (Heroes
DVD), they left it totally alone, the way they should have. I can't
*wait* to see how they ruin it when their season 3 sets come out...
- Gregatron
Rik Bakke
> Gregatron wrote:
>
> > The fact that they added "new" (crappy) sounds to BOTH 5.1 and
> > 2.0 tracks to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE in the set this time when
> > Zobovor *specifically* asked them not to is unforgivable.
>
> Not that they *have* to do anything I ask them to, of course. I'm
> just the guy who occasionally provides them with historical
> information and the occasional title card screen capture. I've made
> suggestions here and there, but they're well within their rights to
> use or ignore 'em as they see fit.
It still seems a bit strange to me that they're so reluctant to take the
advice of people who obviously care a great deal about detail. And
do they really think the sets will sell any BETTER by adding these
goddamned sound effects? Which brings me to what is probably
the biggest bone of contention...
> I will just say that *they* were the ones who proposed limiting the
> new sound effects to the 5.1 channel for future collections, not me.
> The fact that they assured me they would do this and then to turn
> around and do just the *opposite* instead... *that's* what really
> bugs me.
I used to hold Rhino in very high regard. They put a lot of love and
effort into reissuing the Monkees catalogue (the Monkees were my
other great teenage passion), so when I heard that they were doing
TRANSFORMERS stuff, I felt sure that the show would be in good
hands. Obviously, I'm disappointed. It's bad enough that they put
on these cheeseball effects in the first place, but what really makes
me lose respect for them is the lame attempts at covering their ass.
"Oh, the sound effects were always there, but too low in the mix, so
you should really be singing our praises for... um, putting the surge
on the tracks for you. Actually. Yeah... uh, yeah, that's it."
Yeah. Why not just come out and say you think we're clueless gits?
> Well, at least I still have my battered old Sci-Fi Channel episodes.
A bit battered, old friend, but alive.
--
Rik Bakke
silve...@c2i.net
THE CYBERTRON CHRONICLE
http://cybertronchronicle.freewebspace.com/
Transformers Fan Code
G++ FR FW+ #75 D+ AA+ N++ W++ B++ OQP BC98-02++ CN+++ OM+
SirSTACK
>> Well, at least I still have my battered old Sci-Fi Channel episodes.
>
>A bit battered, old friend, but alive.
Yes. Because magnetic video tape copies of heavily cut, multi-generational
master taped episodes are so much better than DVD remasters of the original
film source with sparse & random audio enhancements. I'm surprised you aren't
going as far as throwing out anything in the room that might interfere with the
sanctity of how you originally saw the episodes. Whoops! Bought a new TV since
86! Throw it out, dig up the old B&W! What, this computer's motor wasn't
running when you first saw this ep of TF? Take the hammer to it! Dammit, you
breathed in at the wrong time, changing the audio from what it was when you
first saw it! Better rewind the tape and start all over!
Good gravy. It's not like they changed lines. Prime isn't asking Megatron to
give up, pretty please. It's not like a laugh track was added to all of the
joking scenes. To even suggest something this small, this freakin' trivial, is
a "butchery" and "cause for boycott", is absurd and downright stupid. Next,
we'll have people who only saw the show during "Generation 2" demanding those
be released exactly as they were.
Rhino added new sound effects. Like it, don't like. Buy them, don't buy them.
Continuing to bitch about it is only going to sour Rhino's desire to keep
releasing them, period. This is almost as bad as those analingus bastards who
whine because rereleases use different brand screws and shit. Me, I'll be
watching the shows for what they are and always have been: shows.
Ethan Hammond
Zobovor the Towel Technician
>Yes. Because magnetic video tape copies of heavily cut,
>multi-generational master taped episodes are so much better than DVD
>remasters of the original film source with sparse & random audio
>enhancements.
I agree completely. (Well, except about the multi-generational part. My tapes
are first-generation recordings.)
>To even suggest something this small, this freakin' trivial, is a
>"butchery" and "cause for boycott", is absurd and downright stupid.
Well, the alternative to boycotting would be to continue buying the product
while knowing it to be defective/inferior. That strikes me as equally absurd,
frankly.
>Rhino added new sound effects. Like it, don't like. Buy them, don't buy
>them. Continuing to bitch about it is only going to sour Rhino's desire
>to keep releasing them, period.
Well, either that, or they'll realize that they're alienating a fair portion of
their target audience and will take steps to correct that. I'd say either end
result is satisfactory.
Zobovor, suspects that the degree to which some fans consider these matters
unimportant is inversely proportionate to the emotional investment they've made
in the series.
Rik Bakke
> "Rik Bakke" silve...@NOSPAMc2i.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Zobovor wrote:
> >
> > > Well, at least I still have my battered old Sci-Fi Channel
> > > episodes.
> >
> >A bit battered, old friend, but alive.
>
> Yes. Because magnetic video tape copies of heavily cut, multi-
> generational master taped episodes are so much better than
> DVD remasters of the original film source with sparse & random
> audio enhancements.
Before we continue onto the rest of your carefully thought-out
diatribe, let me ask you something. Do you have the slightest
inkling that the line "A bit battered, old friend, but alive" is part
of Optimus Prime's dialogue in THE AUTOBOT RUN? If I were
to guess, I'd say... no? I saw Dave using the word "battered" and
off I ran with it (since, you see, I'm brash enough to like making
in-joke references like that with people I know). I'm very sorry if
it was upsetting to you. I'll try my best to quell such behaviour
in the future.
> I'm surprised you aren't going as far as throwing out anything
> in the room that might interfere with the sanctity of how you
> originally saw the episodes. Whoops! Bought a new TV since
> 86! Throw it out, dig up the old B&W! What, this computer's
> motor wasn't running when you first saw this ep of TF? Take
> the hammer to it! Dammit, you breathed in at the wrong time,
> changing the audio from what it was when you first saw it!
> Better rewind the tape and start all over!
Say, would you at all be overreacting in this paragraph? I can't
quite recall when I said that Rhino has forever ruined all things
TRANSFORMERS. If you'll re-read the salient parts of my post,
you'll see that my gripe is more about Rhino being untruthful as
well as not just claiming, but reassuring, that they'll do one thing
and then do another, than about any changes they made.
I'd think more of their part in this particular situation if they'd just
come out and said, "Sure, we added some stuff on there, because
we felt it would appeal to the kids of today" or something, instead
of claiming that they did nothing to the original soundtrack but
"crank it up." That so damn unfair?
> Good gravy. It's not like they changed lines. Prime isn't asking
> Megatron to give up, pretty please. It's not like a laugh track
> was added to all of the joking scenes.
It's not like it was necessary to do anything at all, really. I think
that's really what gets to some of the people who had the nerve
to complain. It wasn't NECESSARY. It also means that the show
isn't quite as "original" as the very DVD sets Rhino are putting
out claim to be.
> To even suggest something this small, this freakin' trivial, is a
> "butchery" and "cause for boycott", is absurd and downright
> stupid. Next, we'll have people who only saw the show during
> "Generation 2" demanding those be released exactly as they
> were.
I'll just quietly add that I never said it was quite that bad. I'm
glad for the freshened up imagery, certainly, although I think
I've seen a touch of slight off-colouring in places, and other
places have been a bit too pixelated (though I recognize that
this can be due to the nature of the movement / action in any
given scene).
> Rhino added new sound effects. Like it, don't like. Buy them,
> don't buy them.
It's very easy to say that, isn't it? "Buy them, don't buy them."
"Take it or leave it." You seem to be forgetting that getting the
TV series on DVD has been one of the more-or-less collective
G1 fandom's greatest desires for years. A great reason for us
being here is nostalgia; I certainly make no bones about that.
And when you get these wimpy sound effects instead of the
classic fusion cannon, for instance, it does affect the whole
experience for those of us who have the sheer gall to prefer
something the way it was when it is entirely possible to keep
it that way.
Are you seriously saying that I represent some kind of tight-
ass regression by preferring THE ORIGINAL TRANSFORMERS
(says right there on the DVD cover, folks) to a tampered-with--
and by this line of reasoning decidedly UNoriginal--version?
Don't you even dare tell me that I'm not allowed to have my
preferences without making me out to be some retro-freak
who'd blissfully trash his apartment because the wallpaper
isn't the same as it was in the 1980s.
> Continuing to bitch about it is only going to sour Rhino's
> desire to keep releasing them, period.
I don't have a Marketing education, so feel free to shoot me
down, but let me paint a picture for you. If Rhino is really so
insecure a company that straight talk from a customer would
seriously make them think, "Well, goddamn that guy from
Anytown, U.S.A. Just for that, we won't put out anymore of
these DVDs. See how he likes that!" what more is there to say?
We're talking about a company, here, pal, not a three-year-old
crybaby. Any company with some market knowledge will know
that they can't be all things to all people and they can't please
everybody. So just don't bother trying to lay your misplaced
guilt-trip wisdom on us, okay? Just don't.
I wonder who's really acting the most sour here, come to think
of it.
> This is almost as bad as those analingus bastards who
> whine because rereleases use different brand screws and
> shit.
Oh, they're BASTARDS, are they? Granted, I haven't heard
anything one way or the other about screw brands being
used with re-releases, but gosh, even though I'm not into
the toys, I, for one, perfectly understand that someone might
be disappointed in things like Optimus Prime's smokestacks
being cut down for size or an orange Megatron or whatever
it all is. (I will say that the plastic over die-cast issue is one
that we'll just have to deal with. Plastic is here to stay.)
Details, details, you say. But if you had any understanding
of what can really make something for someone, whether it's
a TV show or music or a book, you'd realize that a great deal
of appeal lies in the details. Whether it's about Prime's smoke-
stacks being the original length or Megatron's fusion cannon
not going "ffsshh." Is that somehow an illegitimate view? Does
that really make us, to stay with your term, bastards?
Careful there, sport, or that high horse just might throw you off.
> Me, I'll be watching the shows for what they are and always
> have been: shows.
Well, you know, I'm very happy to hear that you have such a,
shall we say, healthy outlook on things. I'm sure *you* are. I'll
also be very happy the day you stop telling me that I have no
right to feel that any product worth doing is worth doing right,
especially when the purport is to restore--not remix, not alter,
but RESTORE--an ORIGINAL show.
THE TRANSFORMERS is not by any means my "religion," nor
does it even come close to encompassing my everyday life. But
the fact that YOU may not invest anything more than a cursory
interest in the show doesn't in any way whatsoever negate the
validity of those of us who think of it as a little something more.
--
Rik Bakke - Yeah, yeah, I'll get off the soapbox now.
Gregatron
You miss the point, man. This is Generation 2 all over again, except
now the sound is funked up.
I waited *years* to get the series on DVD, and what I got was an
unauthorized "Special Edition". Ugh. The original sound editors would
cringe.
- Gregatron
Gregatron
Couldn't have said it better.
These new sound distract me every time I hear them (cuz I have many
episodes etched in my mind). The whole *point* of releasing the series
on DVD weas to allow a wider base of fans access to *all* the
episodes, AND with improved sound/picture quality.
Hearing "pfasshhh!" impact sounds (that drown everything else out)
every ****ing time a laser blast hits something goes against that
dream...with extreme prejudice.
- Gregatron
Mr Director
"Gregatron" <brund...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b360c78.03042...@posting.google.com...
>
>
> You miss the point, man. This is Generation 2 all over again, except
> now the sound is funked up.
Whoah, hold up a second. Generation 2?? Now we're REALLY stretching it. Yea,
they added some new sound effects, but the voices are intact, the
transforming sounds are intact, the masters look good, the original bumpers
are there (which AREN'T on the sci-fi channel airings,_ and they are uncut.
Generation 2 had annyoing CGI scene changers that detracted big time from
the story. These new sound effects are very minor in the gran scheme of
things.
>
> I waited *years* to get the series on DVD, and what I got was an
> unauthorized "Special Edition".
Unauthorized? Uh, it wasn't like Hasbro didn;t give Rhino full approval to
release themas they pleased.
Ugh. The original sound editors would
> cringe.
>
> - Gregatron
Again, as long as Soundwave still sounds like Soundwave, as long as Prime
and Megeatron still sound they like they should, as long as the transforming
sounds are intact, as long as the original score is there, a few minor sound
effects will not detract me at all.
Zobovor the Towel Technician
>> You miss the point, man. This is Generation 2 all over again, except
>> now the sound is funked up.
>
>Whoah, hold up a second. Generation 2?? Now we're REALLY
>stretching it. Yea, they added some new sound effects, but the voices
>are intact, the transforming sounds are intact, the masters look good,
>the original bumpers are there (which AREN'T on the sci-fi channel
>airings,_ and they are uncut.
That's a strange argument to make, since the voices and transforming sounds and
episode content are intact for the G2 run, too. That said, I'd say the
comparison Gregatron made was perfectly valid.
>Generation 2 had annyoing CGI scene changers that detracted big time
>from the story.
And the Rhino DVD has annoying modern-era sound effects that overlap the
dialogue and detract big time from the story. The only difference is that the
changes made to G2 were largely visual in nature while the changes made to the
DVD episodes are aural. I don't think anyone can state definitively that one
type of change is intrinsically better or worse than the other. The fact
remains that in both cases, fans wanting to see the episodes in their original
form can't do so with the G2 or Rhino DVD editions.
Zobovor, completely baffled by all the people popping out of the woodwork long
enough to proclaim, "How DARE you want to see the episodes the way they were
meant to be seen! What the hell is WRONG with you?" I mean, it's not like
there are child safety regulations or trademark issues at work, here. There
was no *reason* for Rhino to make these changes. They just did it 'coz they
felt like it.
Kuno Christoffel
>Rhino added new sound effects. Like it, don't like. Buy them, don't buy them.
>Continuing to bitch about it is only going to sour Rhino's desire to keep
>releasing them, period. This is almost as bad as those analingus bastards who
>whine because rereleases use different brand screws and shit. Me, I'll be
>watching the shows for what they are and always have been: shows.
That's pretty good, SirSTACK, but I think you'll have to try harder to top
this gem:
"I don't see you complaining that Optimus Prime was changed into "LioConvoy."
Of course not."
- SirSTACK, September 9, 2001
(Just in case somebody on this group might take your ignorant ranting about
the evil fanboys seriously.)
- K.C.
Liam Gibbs
> DVD player!!!!
Whoa, Shakespear. Heheheh.
Anyway, I'm just using a regular, non-PS2 DVD player. I'm gonna try it
on a friend's DVD player to see if I get the same badness. I might
have to return it. Failing that, when I get some money, I may have to
buy that individual part again. Are the parts--sold individually--the
exact same as the boxed set parts?
For the record, I'm just glad the DVDs were released. I haven't seen
these episodes in 15 years, so, tampered sound effects or not, I'm
just thankful they're there, although I sit on the fence with Rhino
themselves.
Elc
Zobovor the Towel Technician wrote:
> And the Rhino DVD has annoying modern-era sound effects that overlap the
> dialogue and detract big time from the story. The only difference is that the
> changes made to G2 were largely visual in nature while the changes made to the
> DVD episodes are aural. I don't think anyone can state definitively that one
> type of change is intrinsically better or worse than the other. The fact
> remains that in both cases, fans wanting to see the episodes in their original
> form can't do so with the G2 or Rhino DVD editions.
Of the G2 versions of the episodes I've seen, pretty much all of the visual
additions were accompanied by aural effects which, if I can be honest here, were
just as distracting as what is on the Rhino DVDs. Every time a scene would change,
not only would some random CGI effect pop up, but the sound of gears or an aperture
shutter would accompany them, and this would happen far more often than the added
sounds Rhino have put in.
Of course I could do without Rhino's added sounds but, for the most part, the
viewing experience of the episodes is far less distracting or annoying than the
Cybernet Space Cube at play. So I can see and agree with the points on both sides;
there really shouldn't have been any new sound effects put in, especially on the
2.0 mix, but we really do whine a bit too much about what exactly each of us
considers acceptable.
The only copies of these episodes I have, with the exception of the few which were
released on video in Canada, are just barely watchable with muffled sound and
not-so-great video. So, given the choice between those and the quality of the
episodes released on DVD, I will choose the DVDs everytime.
Rik Bakke
> Zobovor the Towel Technician wrote:
>
> > And the Rhino DVD has annoying modern-era sound effects
> > that overlap the dialogue and detract big time from the story.
> > The only difference is that the changes made to G2 were largely
> > visual in nature while the changes made to the DVD episodes
> > are aural. I don't think anyone can state definitively that one
> > type of change is intrinsically better or worse than the other.
> > The fact remains that in both cases, fans wanting to see the
> > episodes in their original form can't do so with the G2 or Rhino
> > DVD editions.
>
> Of the G2 versions of the episodes I've seen, pretty much all of
> the visual additions were accompanied by aural effects which, if
> I can be honest here, were just as distracting as what is on the
> Rhino DVDs. Every time a scene would change, not only would
> some random CGI effect pop up, but the sound of gears or an
> aperture shutter would accompany them, and this would happen
> far more often than the added sounds Rhino have put in.
I agree with this. I have the first two sets (with the third one on the
way), and while I haven't seen all of the episodes yet (that's really a
marathon undertaking that I haven't been able to accomplish in the
brief span of time I've owned DVD equipment), none of the ones I
have looked at were as bad as G2. Examples of what you put forth
can be found in THE AUTOBOT RUN (Devastator's line, "Goodbye,
Autobots! Devastator is back!") and STARSCREAM'S BRIGADE
(Megatron's line, "Starscream is a child!"), when these clicking and
whirring sounds actually cut into the dialogue.
And even if it is as bad audially on the Rhino DVDs, at least we
ARE spared the so-called cyber cube visuals.
> So I can see and agree with the points on both sides; there really
> shouldn't have been any new sound effects put in, especially on
> the 2.0 mix,
Having the new effects on one track and the original soundtrack on
the other would have been perfectly fine by me. Why they did not
follow through on that with the second S2 set is anyone's guess,
but it certainly defies logic.
> but we really do whine a bit too much about what exactly each
> of us considers acceptable.
Some will do that, yes. Some will shout "I hate Rhino!" or some
other inanity out of hand. But I hope you don't think everyone
who registers a complaint is a whiner, because I certainly think
I have every right to voice concerns and disappointments at a
project that isn't being done according to apparent intentions.
It really wouldn't take that much savvy on Rhino's part to see
that by consistently having one audio track for the "remixed"
version and one for the original audio, they'd be able to cater
to all markets far more easily.
I just think there's a lot of shooting oneself in the foot, here.
> The only copies of these episodes I have, with the exception
> of the few which were released on video in Canada, are just
> barely watchable with muffled sound and not-so-great video.
> So, given the choice between those and the quality of the
> episodes released on DVD, I will choose the DVDs everytime.
I have a complete set of the original shows that are second-
generation (and I think third-generation in a few cases), but
you know, nearly all of them are so well preserved that I've
never been bothered by anything. It's still the way it always
was supposed to be, the years of wear notwithstanding. So
for me, it's looking at both sides of the coin and not being
sure which is the best pick for a flip.
I'll continue to buy the DVDs, but no one should fault those
who voice their disappointment at what is essentially, really,
an inferior product *compared to the way it could, and well
within their means, too, have been done*. At least not when
voiced with some semblance of reason. I know I'm probably
not the best example of that, but at least I try. That's all.
--
Rik Bakke
Goldbug
> "Gregatron" <brund...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b360c78.03042...@posting.google.com...
>
> >
> >
> > You miss the point, man. This is Generation 2 all over again, except
> > now the sound is funked up.
>
> Whoah, hold up a second. Generation 2?? Now we're REALLY stretching it. Yea,
> they added some new sound effects, but the voices are intact, the
> transforming sounds are intact, the masters look good, the original bumpers
> are there (which AREN'T on the sci-fi channel airings,_ and they are uncut.
> Generation 2 had annyoing CGI scene changers that detracted big time from
> the story. These new sound effects are very minor in the gran scheme of
> things.
>
>
> >
> > I waited *years* to get the series on DVD, and what I got was an
> > unauthorized "Special Edition".
>
> Unauthorized? Uh, it wasn't like Hasbro didn;t give Rhino full approval to
> release themas they pleased.
Clearly that was a mistake.
>
> Ugh. The original sound editors would
> > cringe.
> >
> > - Gregatron
>
> Again, as long as Soundwave still sounds like Soundwave, as long as Prime
> and Megeatron still sound they like they should, as long as the transforming
> sounds are intact, as long as the original score is there, a few minor sound
> effects will not detract me at all.
Well I do not think the original sound effects artist cares for Rhino
defacing his work. This is in fact an art form if you did not already
know it. Maybe if Rhino used Skywalker Sound instead of some teenager
in his basement studio. Then again you wouldn't mind if they used
their own voices to make the sound effects like that one actor in
Police Academy.
Elc
> Some will do that, yes. Some will shout "I hate Rhino!" or some
> other inanity out of hand. But I hope you don't think everyone
> who registers a complaint is a whiner, because I certainly think
> I have every right to voice concerns and disappointments at a
> project that isn't being done according to apparent intentions.
Absolutely. I have no problem with people voicing legitimate gripes, of
course, it's just those who seem to go out of their way to criticize and
denounce the product to the point of calling for a boycott which irks me.
> I have a complete set of the original shows that are second-
> generation (and I think third-generation in a few cases), but
> you know, nearly all of them are so well preserved that I've
> never been bothered by anything.
I had to get mine through traders online, and with the exception of "Five
Faces of Darkness" I've pretty much got season 3 in acceptable quality,
whereas the remaining episodes of season 2 are of such poor quality I don't
even bother watching them.
Thylacine 2000
episodes on the new DVD set. I'm watching them on an XBox, for what
that matters.
Rik Bakke wrote:
> I'll continue to buy the DVDs, but no one should fault those
> who voice their disappointment at what is essentially, really,
> an inferior product *compared to the way it could, and well
> within their means, too, have been done*.
Especially when one realizes the near-total unlikelihood that they're
going to reissue a corrected version. Same thing with the serious
video glitches from the season 1 set.
Now.... I honestly never saw much of season 2 until having gotten
these DVD sets, and so I don't know how they're "supposed" to be. Can
someone list and describe some of the more blatantly bad instances of
out-of-place sounds?
SirSTACK
>(Just in case somebody on this group might take your ignorant ranting about
> the evil fanboys seriously.)
I'm so sorry to hear you suffer from serious Hyperbole Recongition Deficiency.
SirSTACK
>I waited *years* to get the series on DVD, and what I got was an
>unauthorized "Special Edition".
Last I checked, this release WAS authorized. You may desire to believe that the
people who provide you with the show you enjoy so much fail to see what you're
getting your panties in a bunch for, but that's just how life goes sometimes.
If this were REALLY "unauthorized", it'd be as bad as all the fan-distributed
copies of the shows around. I didn't hear of anyone complaining to them that
the Insecticons and Wheelie sounded like the parents on Peanuts when they
talked, due to the massive generational downgrade of the naturally-bad mono
sound.
>The original sound editors would
>cringe.
You friends with them? Close buddies? Neighbors? Met them once in a subway?
Then using "they wouldn't like it" when you don't know them shows how much
you're straining to find a reason to complain. They likely UNDERSTAND that when
upgrading the sound to 5.1, an added effect can help liven things up. They
haven't put new effects on EVERY laserblast, as you've claimed. The original
Sound FX guys are either dead, didn't give a crap about the show to begin with,
or are on to better things.
I do agree with Zob on the issue of adding the effects to the original
mono-sound tracks is wrong. Unlike most of you, though, I don't believe it was
a personal affront there to "destroy" such a "monumental classic of pre-stereo
sound animation". It was either a budgetary issue (usinge a mono-ized version
of the 5.1 might be cheaper than striking the one from the broadcast masters)
or just an oversight. Jumping to conclusions and jumping down their throat
won't make them do anything any better in the future.
Ethan Hammond
> now the sound is funked up.
No, no, no the Cybertronian Spacecube was 10,000 times as
annoying as the new sound effects.
> I waited *years* to get the series on DVD, and what I got was an
> unauthorized "Special Edition". Ugh. The original sound editors would
> cringe.
Heh most of the orginal sound effects were samples anyway so who
knows.
Gyumaoh
And they never issued a corrected version of season 1. (I was able to get a
corrected version of Back to the Future 2&3 for free!)
I don't know if there's anything else to do but boycott.
It would be nice if we had a unified voice on this from the fandom (for once),
but as long as you've got "analingus bastards" like SirStack saying they will
buy whatever crap they churn out...
SirSTACK
>but as long as you've got "analingus bastards" like SirStack saying they will
>buy whatever crap they churn out...
Wait... You're trying to say that the fandom should join to together to call
remastering video, using footage for these episodes that look better than any
version seen since the original broadcasts, and enhancing the audio without
changing anything other than some... SOME random shots and explosions (which
ONLY occur WHEN they should. Nowhere is there a laserblast effect in place of a
car door slamming, for Primus' sake!!) just to make the new and clearer audio
track a little more lively, crap? If that is "crap", which, by anyone with any
sense of a "logic circuit" within their brain, would not be, then sign plenty
more people up for it than for "Make Rhino Stop Releasing G1!"
A boycott over the release of a cartoon with explosion sound effects during
scenes that contain explosions. I didn't think things could get more ridiculous
than this.
Rik Bakke
> First things first: I, too, noticed a lot of choppy sequences in
> a few episodes on the new DVD set. I'm watching them on an
> XBox, for what that matters.
From what I've read and seen, I get the impression that these
DVDs are equipment-sensitive. I've been able to play all of the
DVDs that are compatible with my Playstation 2 (Region 2), so
I don't personally have any problematic experiences, but a fair
bit of people have said they don't have a problem with discs
when playing them on a "proper" DVD player. This even seems
to leave out DVD-ROMs, from what I can gather.
> Rik Bakke wrote:
>
> > I'll continue to buy the DVDs, but no one should fault those
> > who voice their disappointment at what is essentially, really,
> > an inferior product *compared to the way it could, and well
> > within their means, too, have been done*.
>
> Especially when one realizes the near-total unlikelihood that
> they're going to reissue a corrected version. Same thing with
> the serious video glitches from the season 1 set.
>
> Now.... I honestly never saw much of season 2 until having
> gotten these DVD sets, and so I don't know how they're
> "supposed" to be. Can someone list and describe some of
> the more blatantly bad instances of out-of-place sounds?
I can list a couple of instances off the top of my head. In
CHANGING GEARS, the Sun consistently makes a lot of
sizzling noises that weren't there before. And at the end
of the second part of MEGATRON'S MASTER PLAN,
listen for Megatron's repeated fusion cannon blasts. One
might not think either example that horrible, but I'd say it's
blatant enough. I haven't watched the S2.1 set closely yet,
but certainly it appears to affect all the discs on the 5.1
track. I'm almost surprised they didn't put new sound
effects on the interviews. ;-)
Taking a show's somewhat unique sound effects and making
them generic... is it a sign of the times? I know that probably
sounds ridiculously philosophical, but I just sense a general
removal from uniqueness in the world to sameness in a lot of
areas, and this is but one small area.
Exatron
> A boycott over the release of a cartoon with explosion sound effects
> during scenes that contain explosions.
You're oversimplifying things. The new sounds aren't supposed to be
there and often drown out the rest of the audio.
> I didn't think things could
> get more ridiculous than this.
You're right. You couldn't possibly get more rediculous.
There was no reason for Rhino to add new sound effects to the episodes
in the first place and they had to go out of their way to do it. Why
should we just accept an inferior product when we know they're capable
of making it correctly? I won't be buying any further G1 boxed sets
for the same reason that I won't buy the Star Wars trilogy on DVD- the
original versions available don't include the original.
--
Exatron
"Strive for perfection even if others must suffer." - Hook
The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Ka Faraq Gatri
Technician) wrote:
>
>And the Rhino DVD has annoying modern-era sound effects that overlap the
>dialogue and detract big time from the story. The only difference is that the
>changes made to G2 were largely visual in nature while the changes made to the
>DVD episodes are aural. I don't think anyone can state definitively that one
>type of change is intrinsically better or worse than the other. The fact
>remains that in both cases, fans wanting to see the episodes in their original
>form can't do so with the G2 or Rhino DVD editions.
>
Actually, it took a few episodes for me to be sure that there
_were_ added sfx. IMO they're a lot less intrusive that on the
previous two sets. The effects are there, but they no longer drown out
the original sound. Like most of us, I'd prefer Rhino left the sound
alone, but this version of the "enhancement" I can live with. I'm not
going to let the presence of the sfx ruin my enjoyment of episodes I
haven't seen in 15 years. I will e-mail Rhino and tell them again that
I'd prefer the sfx left off, however.
And IMO the G2 cyber space cube was far worse, as it was far more
intusive, interrupted the flow of the story, and often made it
difficult to tell what was supposed to be going on. Much more annoying
than the occasional sizzle sfx added to laser blasts.
Dave Connell aka Ka Faraq Gatri
kfg...@rcn.com
I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America,
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation UNDER GOD,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Steve-o Stonebraker
> I do agree with Zob on the issue of adding the effects to the original
> mono-sound tracks is wrong. Unlike most of you, though, I don't believe
> it was a personal affront there to "destroy" such a "monumental classic
> of pre-stereo sound animation".
Whoa... I don't think I've seen anybody express that viewpoint. If this
is how you've been interpreting people's complaints, I guess I can
understand why you're reacting so strongly. This is simply a matter of
people wanting their beloved childhood memories to be preserved.
There is no objective standard which dictates what sorts of changes are
better than others. Personally, I would prefer -- by a very, very wide
margin -- to have the original soundtrack, even if it meant ditching the
whole remastering process and just using the broadcast master tapes again.
I also would have preferred the broadcast masters to the error-prone
filmstock in the season one set. The difference in video quality, to me,
doesn't come close to making up for the changes.
Obviously, you feel differently, and that's cool, but it doesn't give
license to appear after such a long absence and start ranting.
> It was either a budgetary issue (usinge a mono-ized version
> of the 5.1 might be cheaper than striking the one from the broadcast masters)
> or just an oversight. Jumping to conclusions and jumping down their throat
> won't make them do anything any better in the future.
Again, I don't think I've seen any conclusions at all other than that it
was probably an oversight. It's a simple fact that after discussion with
Zobovor they said they would preserve the original soundtrack on the
stereo channels. Then, they didn't follow through. I doubt they were
lying to placate him -- although I guess it's possible, but that would be
weird. I think fans are justified in being upset, though, especially
since we were promised that this wouldn't happen.
--Steve-o
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Stonebraker | Transformers FAQ Keeper | Astrophysicist
sst...@yahoo.com | www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb | AOL IM: srstoneb
Elc
> SirSTACK wrote:
>
> > A boycott over the release of a cartoon with explosion sound effects
> > during scenes that contain explosions.
>
> You're oversimplifying things. The new sounds aren't supposed to be
> there and often drown out the rest of the audio.
In the same way the Cybernet Space Cube wasn't supposed to be there, and
often distracted greatly from both the visuals *and* audio?
> > I didn't think things could
> > get more ridiculous than this.
>
> You're right. You couldn't possibly get more rediculous.
I don't see any reason to turn this into a personal attack.
> There was no reason for Rhino to add new sound effects to the episodes
> in the first place and they had to go out of their way to do it. Why
> should we just accept an inferior product when we know they're capable
> of making it correctly? I won't be buying any further G1 boxed sets
> for the same reason that I won't buy the Star Wars trilogy on DVD- the
> original versions available don't include the original.
Okay, this argument is just a *little* ridiculous if you think about it.
While you have a point with the original SW trilogy not being the
"originals", it does not compare with the situation over G1. For the most
part, the *only* thing which isn't completely "original" anymore is the
soundtrack but, largely, it is identical. No additional scenes have been
added, nor have the visuals been altered, with the exception of the first
season set.
Pyre
>
> This is almost as bad as those analingus bastards who
> whine because rereleases use different brand screws and
> shit.
Rik and Zob have pretty much said everything that I've been thinking but I
want to add here that it's not quite fair to compare the changes made to
the reissues to the changes made to Rhino's G1 DVD sets. While it is
disappointing that those changes are being made to those toys, it's
necessary in order for them to be released at all. Hasbro has NO CHOICE
but to do that. There's absolutely NO NEED AT ALL for Rhino to be doing
the things that they're doing to the G1 episodes. They could just have
easily released those episodes as they were originally aired, which they
have done on other DVD releases before these box sets, but they themselves
chose to make the changes they've made when there was no need to. If
people complaining makes Rhino decide to not release anymore G1 material,
so what? Does that really make us any worse off? I certainly don't plan
to buy their G1 DVDs unless they do them right so either way, I wouldn't
have them. No loss for me. If you want to be happy with crap, then good
for you but there's no reason why anyone else should be happy with an
inferior product and we have every right to complain.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"Nothing to gain, hollow and alone
and the fault is my own, and the fault is my own"
Gregatron
There's an important difference, though. The Star Wars Special
Editions were altered by George Lucas, the *creator* of the original
versions. It's his vision. I will gladly buy the Special Editions on
DVD (AS LONG AS THE ORIGINALS ARE ALSO INCLUDED OR RELEASED
SEPARATELY, FOR HISTORICAL REASONS), since the the changes are
"official".
I doubt that anyone who worked on G1 originally is on staff at Rhino.
In the case of the changes Rhino made, the analogy would be as if
Quentin Tarantino or someone else came along and changed the Star Wars
films without approval from Lucasfilm.
Of course, if Rhino had created the Star Wars Special Editions, we'd
have unfinished visual effects, lightsabers would make a "pfasshh!"
sound every time they clashed, and *every single vehicle* would make
exactly the same "whoossshh"-y jet noise whenever on-screen.
- Gregatron
Elc
From what I've heard, and I may be mistaken, the chances are slim to none that the
original versions of the original trilogy will ever see the light of day again.
Apparently Lucas doesn't event want the original versions to be broadcast on TV
anymore, since he wants the special edititions to be viewed as the definitive versions.
Personally, I highly doubt the non-special editions of the original trilogy will be
released on DVD, though they may choose several scenes from each which had major
alterations to it, and include the originals as extras.
I do agree that the special editions being official alterations is a big difference
than what's going on with the G1 sets, but the G1 DVDs are largely identical to how
they were originally presented. Yes, the audio has been tampered with, but I find it
strange that these DVDs seem to have stirred up more criticism than the G2 episodes,
which had alterations, both aural and visual, even more intrusive and distracting than
anything Rhino has done.
I realize not everyone bought the box set version of the first season, or any of the
DVDs at all, but on the special features disc, one of the *first things* they explain
was the restoration process. It details how some of the masters had degraded and
required editing around the damaged areas, which is most conpicuous in "Heavy Metal
War" and that the sound had also degraded.
I'm not apologizing for what Rhino has done with the sets, since I would prefer to have
just the original versions as well, but it gets a little tiresome to see the constant
complaining about x-aspect of Transformers. Whether it's how Rhino is butchering the
show, or how Dreamwave is ruining Transformers, to the insulting of Pat Lee's artwork
like the Marvel crap was any better, though I do agree Pat's TF art could use some
work.
ShadowWing
"Elc" wrote
>
> From what I've heard, and I may be mistaken, the chances are slim to none
> that the original versions of the original trilogy will ever see the light
of day
> again. Apparently Lucas doesn't event want the original versions to be
broadcast
> on TV anymore, since he wants the special edititions to be viewed as the
> definitive versions. Personally, I highly doubt the non-special editions
of the original
> trilogy will be released on DVD, though they may choose several scenes
from each which had
> major alterations to it, and include the originals as extras.
The only change I saw worth noting was the inclusion of the Jabba the
Hutt scene. The special effects back in the day didn't allow for that, but
considering all the advancements back then I don't understand why he wants
to cover all that up. If you think about it, Star Wars is probably one of
the few special effects movie that actually has a well done story behind it.
And you know the original edition is going to be running through the
underground for years as a myth that's all true.
> I do agree that the special editions being official alterations is a big
difference
> than what's going on with the G1 sets, but the G1 DVDs are largely
identical to how
> they were originally presented. Yes, the audio has been tampered with, but
I find it
> strange that these DVDs seem to have stirred up more criticism than the G2
> episodes, which had alterations, both aural and visual, even more
intrusive and
> distracting than anything Rhino has done.
I'm still going to pick it up because it's the only way I'll get to see
these old episodes again (anyone know if the VHS has these "enhancements"?),
but it is unnecessary. (Kind of like the ET changes, but that's a whole
other argument.) I certainly understand the complaint, though. The whole
reason for releasing these is the nostalgia factor, and part of that is the
visual/sound effects of the day. I don't understand why Rhino went out and
added these. Most kids (supposedly) don't like watching "old" cartoons, so
altering it is a waste of time.
> I realize not everyone bought the box set version of the first season, or
any of the
> DVDs at all, but on the special features disc, one of the *first things*
they explain
> was the restoration process. It details how some of the masters had
degraded and
> required editing around the damaged areas, which is most conpicuous in
"Heavy
> Metal War" and that the sound had also degraded.
But I don't remember that in the version of "Heavy Metal War" that was
in the first series of releases. (You know, the out of order ones that some
hoped was a test for what we have now.) Granted there were some where the
sound effects were almost nonexistent compared to the rest of the audio
("The Search for Alpha Trion" comes to mind), but unless I should watch it
again, I don't recall any problems with "Heavy Metal War".
> I'm not apologizing for what Rhino has done with the sets, since I would
prefer to
> have just the original versions as well, but it gets a little tiresome to
see the constant
> complaining about x-aspect of Transformers. Whether it's how Rhino is
butchering
> the show, or how Dreamwave is ruining Transformers, to the insulting of
Pat Lee's
> artwork like the Marvel crap was any better, though I do agree Pat's TF
art could use
>some work.
I didn't have a lot of trouble with it in the first mini, but for some
reason he went back and recreated his Prime model and it looks just awful. I
do agree that, even if I see the reasons behind the complaint, some of the
reactions are a bit much, but after the "Technorganic Flame War" of Beast
Machines and the fallout over Chewbacca's heroic death in the SW novels
(which I didn't read but heard about in news reports to what happened),
little about fandom reaction surprises me. Shock? Yes. Worries? Death
threats will do that. Surprise? Not really. Some people just take things too
seriously.
--
______________________________________________
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Derek Blake Haas
> I'm not apologizing for what Rhino has done with the sets, since I would
prefer to have
> just the original versions as well, but it gets a little tiresome to see
the constant
> complaining about x-aspect of Transformers. Whether it's how Rhino is
butchering the
> show, or how Dreamwave is ruining Transformers, to the insulting of Pat
Lee's artwork
> like the Marvel crap was any better, though I do agree Pat's TF art could
use some
> work.
Yeah. It seems that 93% of ATT posts anymore are complaints about how
something isn't duplicating one's childhood exactly. I can understand
emotional attachment, but, honestly, I have memories of my childhood;
nothing but severe blunt trauma or the ravages of old age will ever change
that. I don't need to relive those memories to appreciate them, and can be
thankful for the efforts of Hasbro, Dreamwave, and Rhino to offer me a bit
of nostalgia -- with the understanding that reminiscence does not
necessitate duplication.
Squizzle needs a .SIG.
Rik Bakke
> It seems that 93% of ATT posts anymore are complaints about
> how something isn't duplicating one's childhood exactly. I can
> understand emotional attachment, but, honestly, I have memories
> of my childhood; nothing but severe blunt trauma or the ravages
> of old age will ever change that.
That's a good point. Truly, I don't need the DVDs to remember the
way the show was in its original form. It does, however, make too
much sense, if they absolutely have to put on new sound effects,
to make both version available. Makes the thing more appealing to
more potential customers, you know? Have a choice of preference.
> I don't need to relive those memories to appreciate them, and
> can be thankful for the efforts of Hasbro, Dreamwave, and Rhino
> to offer me a bit of nostalgia -- with the understanding that
> reminiscence does not necessitate duplication.
Yeah, but there's also another point to consider. I've already said
a number of times that this is supposed to be the original show,
and that even the DVD sets themselves make this claim. You can
hardly argue against any claim that these tamperings-with make
the shows slightly less original, right? I'm sure there are many who
feel a sense of frustration at the fact that kids who see this now
who were too young to have seen it originally and won't know
better, will think that Rhino's representations are accurate and,
again, original.
Does this do any of us "old-timers" any real harm? Of course not.
Is it gonna hurt the youngsters who are seeing the shows for the
first time? Nah. But I understand the principle of the thing, is all.
It's a valid point of view, and may actually be more on the mind
of the "complainers" than childhood memories being diminished.
Jesse Howard
OF THE "MOCK" 2.0 STEREO CHANNEL. It takes up space on the discs, and it
almost never does a DAMN THING. How did they not fix this problem after
even admitting themselves that they screwed up on the 1st season box set??
The worst problem this creates is it adds sort of a mask over the original
audio. The sound (audio and quality) is actually lowered, by adding sound
on top of existing sound. This is due to the way it must be done. The
audio quality of my old FHE video tapes is way better than the DVDs. The
bass is deep and rich. It could also be due to the 20 some years that have
gone by.
I am very appreciative for what Rhino has done so far, but they have wasted
a lot of money on a restoration process that almost no one cares about.
Honestly, how many people walk into a store and say, "Wow! Transformers!
Oh, it's in 5.1 Dolby Digital, well I'll buy it then." I would be more
enticed to purchase it if it said on the box, "Original Mono Soundtrack."
That is even what the Japanese Box Sets say.
I also love the commercial bumpers, and since I haven't checked every
episode yet, does anyone know if there are episodes without the new sounds?
I want to make AVIs of the bumpers, but not with the "POW" lasers.
One last thing, why is GI Joe The Movie and Transformers The Movie untouched
by Rhino? I was again disappointed when I bought the GI Joe Miniseries two
disc set.
So does anyone know about how much $ to get the distribution rights from
Hasbro???
Ryusama
"Pyre" <pyres...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
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