Botcon.com update and the truth on Unicron
C Ratliff
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
!
Unicron is coming as a hard hero statue for the low low price of $150 check
it out...
http://www.botcon.com
Junior
TFG1 Bumblebee
that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
People charge too much for crap.
____
NextGen Transformers
Discuss the newest addition to the TF Universe
http://www.msnusers.com/NextGenTransformers
BW Sidecutter
>toy
>that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
>
You have no concept of the prices that these kind of things usually cost, do
you? And that's when they're not even in "limited" production runs this small.
$150 is a perfectly fair price, whether or not it's worth $150 to you is
another matter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BW Sidecutter
Http://connect.to/DSNPort91881
Captured Prey - Http://members.aol.com/capturedprey/capturedprey.html
Savage/Noble - Best TF of the 1st 1/2, 2001
Desperado00
>you? And that's when they're not even in "limited" production runs this
>small.
> $150 is a perfectly fair price, whether or not it's worth $150 to you is
>another matter.
You're joking, right? A big lump of resin molded to look like a character you
remember fondly from your childhood, and it's worth more than $150? HA! With
production costs and everything figured in, it's worth no more than $45, and
even that is a stretch.
----------------------------------------
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
An egotist is a self-made man who worships his creator.
If we aren't meant to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?
BW Sidecutter
>you
>remember fondly from your childhood, and it's worth more than $150? HA!
>With
>production costs and everything figured in, it's worth no more than $45, and
>even that is a stretch.
Yep, no idea whatsoever...
Iron Wookiee
>>you
>>remember fondly from your childhood, and it's worth more than $150? HA!
>>With
>>production costs and everything figured in, it's worth no more than $45, and
>>even that is a stretch.
>
>Yep, no idea whatsoever...
Perhaps he's got the right idea... You've just got a wallet bigger
than your brain... ;)
A.Patyk
POSEABLE PVC for less than half that? I was going to order the Unicron toy
when I thought it WAS A TOY...bleah.
ThePaw
> >You're joking, right? A big lump of resin molded to look like a character
> >you
> >remember fondly from your childhood, and it's worth more than $150? HA!
> >With
> >production costs and everything figured in, it's worth no more than $45, and
> >even that is a stretch.
>
> Yep, no idea whatsoever...
Heh, for some reason I find this exchange has very funny. Mmm...too much to drink.
-onNu
Paul Segal
>From: tfbum...@aol.com (TFG1 Bumblebee)
>Date: 11/29/01 4:12 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20011129161215...@mb-fk.aol.com>
>
>What the heck to do you mean by "low low price"? That's freakin high for a
>toy that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
It's not a toy.
It's a statue.
Statues are SUPPOSED to sit there.
Well, traditional ones anyway.
-Paul Segal
Email: aster...@yahoo.com ICQ: 24024819 AIM: asterphage
Aaron F. Bourque
>>From: tfbum...@aol.com (TFG1 Bumblebee)
>>What the heck to do you mean by "low low price"? That's
>>freakin high for a toy that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
>
>It's not a toy.
>It's a statue.
>Statues are SUPPOSED to sit there.
>Well, traditional ones anyway.
Not like that post-modern classic "dipping bird" statue.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
http://delinquents.keenspace.com/d/20010703.html
Damn the tree and all its kind!
Nothing's impossible in the hot soul.
Irrellius Spam of the Potato People
It's a statue. >>
Even more reason why that's too expensive for it. I'd really love one, but the
most I'd ever spend on one is about $80.
If it could move, or transform, I'd pay twice the price, assuming I ever get an
extra $300
Al-
http://www.Angelfire.com/mi2/Ob1kenoby/
"I wish i had to defend the earth from the darkness."-TrypticonX
"I dream the Spainish channel will have subtitles, so I finally know what I've
been laughing at."
Join the guns make fun program today!
Pyre
> What the heck to do you mean by "low low price"? That's freakin high for a toy
> that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
It's a statue, not a toy. It's also a limited run, not to mention really big.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"All that has been. All that is. All that's to be.
Lord I'm just killing time, and time's killing me."
- Zakk Wylde
Iron Wookiee
>> that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
>
>It's a statue, not a toy. It's also a limited run, not to mention really big.
Eh... Limited isn't an excuse for price-gouging...
And "Really Big" is only 14." With the Blue Bolts on his shoulders,
Omega Prime beats that.
Hell, the 14" probably includes the Cybertron base. Without the base,
he'd be 12" at the most- wings included. At that height, he'd be as
tall as Landfill and Rail Racer.
To be honest, do you REALLY want a Unicron that could be beaten by
Wedge? ;)
Mecha Usagi
I'm dissapointed?
I knew a Fort-Max sized toy was out of the question, so I was hoping for an
Omega Supreme sized poseable PVC figure.
And the price of $150?
Ugh! Hasn't 3H charged us all enough allready?
--
Mecha Usagi
"The funny little bunny with the guns."
"C Ratliff" <liok...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:u0bstic...@corp.supernews.com...
Stranger
news:20011129164951...@mb-bg.aol.com...
> You're joking, right? A big lump of resin molded to look like a character
you
> remember fondly from your childhood, and it's worth more than $150? HA!
With
> production costs and everything figured in, it's worth no more than $45,
and
> even that is a stretch
Dude, do you know how much statues even go for? You think the large Marvel
or Lord of the Ring statues are selling for $45?
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
Y2Bogus
"Stranger" <Phantom-...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:9u6dq4$lvn$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> Desperado00 <despe...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20011129164951...@mb-bg.aol.com...
>
> > You're joking, right? A big lump of resin molded to look like a
character
> you
> > remember fondly from your childhood, and it's worth more than $150? HA!
> With
> > production costs and everything figured in, it's worth no more than $45,
> and
> > even that is a stretch
>
> Dude, do you know how much statues even go for? You think the large
Marvel
> or Lord of the Ring statues are selling for $45?
Bah, if I wanted spend 150 bucks on a statue, I'd get a Brave Max.
DONNY REB
Charles Calhoun
> >> What the heck to do you mean by "low low price"? That's freakin high for a toy
> >> that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
> >
> >It's a statue, not a toy. It's also a limited run, not to mention really big.
>
> Eh... Limited isn't an excuse for price-gouging...
There are set costs for creating molds, and so forth. The more copies
they make, the more they can spread out that cost. If it's limited,
then each individual unit has to absorb a greater amount of that cost.
Are you capable of understanding this simple, SIMPLE logic? Would
you mind not throwing around accusations of price gouging? Thanks.
Charles Calhoun
> Ugh! Hasn't 3H charged us all enough allready?
Considering the fact that most Botcons put 3H into debt, no, they
clearly haven't charged us enough already.
Quag Prime
> Ungrateful bastards...
>
>
How's that?
Steve-o Stonebraker
> B...@Bob.com (Iron Wookiee) wrote in message news:<3c072d38...@news.qx.net>...
>
> There are set costs for creating molds, and so forth. The more copies
> they make, the more they can spread out that cost. If it's limited,
> then each individual unit has to absorb a greater amount of that cost.
> Are you capable of understanding this simple, SIMPLE logic? Would
> you mind not throwing around accusations of price gouging? Thanks.
Not to mention... there's this amazing concept in the world of free will
called "if it costs more than you think it is worth, don't buy it". The
only reason to be *angry* about a high price is if it's something that you
have no choice but to buy. Then, you kind of have to rely on the supplier
to charge something you can afford. For luxery items, you simply buy or
don't buy. Nobody is required to own a gigantic Unicron statue. It costs
X dollars to design, sculpt, and mold a prototype and to then cast,
decorate, package, and ship Y copies of that prototype. If you don't
want to pay that amount, don't. But don't complain that it's *their*
fault that you don't like the product enough to pay for it, or that you
"have to" pay more than you want to when you buy it anyway.
I would love to have a big Unicron statue, but it's not worth $150 to me.
So I'm not going to buy one unless I see a photo of the statue that makes
it look better to me than the Khanna design we've seen; I wasn't too fond
of the proportions. If the statue comes out more akin to the way I
picture Unicron in my head, then its worth to me will increase. But
increase all the way to $150? Doubtful. So, I'll just examine somebody
else's, say, "wow, that's a dang fine statue", and go along my merry way.
Also keep in mind that the price-per-item does not increase just linearly
with the number produced. (That is, making half as many doesn't mean they
cost twice as much.) The price increase for fewer and fewer items is
gigantic because the costs of development and marketing have to be spread
out among fewer and fewer sales. *That* is the reason that small-run
limited edition products are really expensive. It has nothing to do with
them being "worth more" because of being "more collectible".
--Steve-o
Hydra & Buster's Masterforce/Victory subtitling project needs donations!
*** http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/hantaakiraa/pt/fansub.html ***
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve R Stonebraker | Transformers FAQ Keeper | Astrophysicist
srst...@yahoo.com | http://astro.bu.edu/~srstoneb/ | AOL IM: srstoneb
Quag Prime
> >> that sits there and does NOTHING!!!!
No, it stands there and looks freakin' AWESOME!!!!
> >It's a statue, not a toy. It's also a limited run, not to mention really big.
...and high quality. Have you seen Hard Hero's other work? This
thing ain't plastic or resin, it's cold cast porcilin.
> Eh... Limited isn't an excuse for price-gouging...
How do you price-gouge something that isn't a nessesity? If they
can't make a profit on the thing, the price will be lowered to
minimize their losses. That won't happen because 3H has better
business sense than that. Don't complain just because it's out of
your price range (we don't complain that Porche price-gouges their
vehicles do we?). That's just the way the economy works.
> And "Really Big" is only 14." With the Blue Bolts on his shoulders,
> Omega Prime beats that.
>
> Hell, the 14" probably includes the Cybertron base. Without the base,
> he'd be 12" at the most- wings included. At that height, he'd be as
> tall as Landfill and Rail Racer.
Even if you count the base, the 14" tall Unicron porcelin statue is
still "really big". Especially if you consider the fact that this
thing will be maybe a foot wide counting the wings.
Landfill and Rail Racer ain't cold cast porcilin statues. Which, BTW
are great pieces of contemporary art, far more convincing on your
mantle or piano top (esp. if one has a wife that frowns on "toys"
these places).
> To be honest, do you REALLY want a Unicron that could be beaten by
> Wedge? ;)
Wedge don't hold a candle to THIS Unicron.
-Quag
Still uncertain about Botcon this year, but I've already ordered my
Chaos Bringer. ;-)
Robowang keeper of the magic beans
Robowang, Master of Mantasticness
Cold outside? Enough to shrivel your goods?
Enter the House of 'Wang!
http://www.100megsfree2.com/robowang/houseofwang.html
Paul Segal
>Date: 11/29/01 5:43 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <9u6dq4$lvn$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
>
>Desperado00 <despe...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20011129164951...@mb-bg.aol.com...
>
>> You're joking, right? A big lump of resin molded to look like a character
>you
>> remember fondly from your childhood, and it's worth more than $150? HA!
>With
>> production costs and everything figured in, it's worth no more than $45,
>and
>> even that is a stretch
>
>Dude, do you know how much statues even go for? You think the large Marvel
>or Lord of the Ring statues are selling for $45?
Well, those large DC statues sold for about that much at the WB stores, but
they were fairly simple designs in terms of detail.
I wish I'd picked up that awesome Riddler...
Necrotron
> Also keep in mind that the price-per-item does not increase just linearly
> with the number produced. (That is, making half as many doesn't mean they
> cost twice as much.) The price increase for fewer and fewer items is
> gigantic because the costs of development and marketing have to be spread
> out among fewer and fewer sales. *That* is the reason that small-run
> limited edition products are really expensive. It has nothing to do with
> them being "worth more" because of being "more collectible".
>
> --Steve-o
One problem,
What exactly is "limited" about "as many as we can get orders for" and
"discounts for quantities over 10" A "created" collectible is only worth
something to people who care about that particular item. I am with you
about the price. Considering it will probably be made out of the same
amount of material as a HH "bust", the price is waaaaaaaaaaay to high for
me. Now if it were bronze or something durable and not prone to deforming
and melting, I'd say $150 is still to much.
Necrotron
Who would pay twice that for an actual Unicron transformer, twice or three
times over.
Hey that gives me an idea for a thread....
A.Patyk
Charles Calhoun wrote in message
<89b340c6.01113...@posting.google.com>...
Then why not charge an exorbitant fee for something worthwhile, like a TOY
instead of a STATUE?
Quag Prime
> The FAQ says that with the base, it stands a good 18 inches tall.
18 inches tall!?!?!? SIGN ME UP!!!!!!
Zobovor the Caffeine Addict
>Then why not charge an exorbitant fee for something worthwhile, like a
>TOY instead of a STATUE?
Actually, I think a limited-edition toy would cost even more to produce than
the statue. Even if it were just an action figure with a minimum of moving
parts instead of a full-blown transforming toy... you just couldn't justify a
production run of only hundreds or even thousands.
Statues are a lot easier to do because they are, essentially, one piece. One
set of molds, no complicated engineering or tooling required. For some people,
having a physical representation of Unicron is enough. I can appreciate that.
Given the inherent fragility of such an item, coupled with my lack of display
room and the exorbitant cost, though, it's just not for me.
On the other hand, I'd be tickled pink to get a Unicron PVC. Even a tiny one.
Something I could hold in my hands and not worry too much over breaking it.
Something I wouldn't have to shell out a quarter of a month's rent for. :)
Zobovor... and there's just something inherently appealing to me about the
notion of a tiny little Unicron toy. He'd be the devourer of small pebbles...
wait, that's Punicron. Well, you get the idea.
Stranger
news:20011130223149...@mb-df.aol.com...
> Well, those large DC statues sold for about that much at the WB stores,
but
> they were fairly simple designs in terms of detail.
> I wish I'd picked up that awesome Riddler...
Weren;t they also made of cheap material? Too bad the WB store closed- they
did have some neat items.
Bombblast17
While $150 is something I could swing with some advance notice, putting a
limited, high-end priced statue for a preorder (where you're charged now
instead of in 6 months later when it's released) four weeks before christmas is
a bit more than the common person can handle. I'm hopeing there will still be
some available after christmas, but I fear dealers wanting to turn a quick
buck on ebay will dash that. Also, some concept art or a prototype would have
been nice. Did they even announce who was sculpting it? I'd be pretty ticked
to spend a 150 bucks on an a bad sculpt.
toonking
Tom Walsh
news:20011201030818...@mb-ck.aol.com...
>
>
> Zobovor... and there's just something inherently appealing to me about the
> notion of a tiny little Unicron toy. He'd be the devourer of small
pebbles...
> wait, that's Punicron. Well, you get the idea.
Heh, I haven't used that name in ages...I might change back if I got my own
toy though, that'd be cool :)
As long as I got a decent tech-spec quote - I'm thinking "My bargaining
position is highly dubious..."
Tom W, reformed pebble-eater
Stranger
news:7O_N7.243628$W8.86...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> What exactly is "limited" about "as many as we can get orders for" and
> "discounts for quantities over 10" A "created" collectible is only worth
> something to people who care about that particular item. I am with you
> about the price. Considering it will probably be made out of the same
> amount of material as a HH "bust", the price is waaaaaaaaaaay to high for
> me. Now if it were bronze or something durable and not prone to deforming
> and melting, I'd say $150 is still to much.
Metal statues are way way more expensive than the porcelain statues. Can
you name any other 14" statue that's been released...ever...made of bronze
that retailed for less than $150?
Stranger
> Metal statues are way way more expensive than the porcelain statues. Can
> you name any other 14" statue that's been released...ever...made of bronze
> that retailed for less than $150?
Just an addendum- that paraygraph is supposed to mean that metal statues of
that size cost way more than $150. At least $250- more commonly above $300.
Walkerton
> but
> > they were fairly simple designs in terms of detail.
> > I wish I'd picked up that awesome Riddler...
>
> Weren;t they also made of cheap material? Too bad the WB store closed-
they
> did have some neat items.
The DC maquettes were made out of ... resin, I think? Heh, I'm no sure, and
I *sold* those to people. Well, it was a while ago. Each statue was about
10
inches tall and sold for (guess what?) 150 dollars. And these were limited
edition
replications of what the animators are given as reference models.
Now, if we're going to talk about stuff made out of the same material as
Unicron,
Goebel made some porcelain statue-y things based on famous Warner Bros
cartoon
scenes. For instance, there was a Rabbit of Seville and MJ Frog and Bugs
all
dressed up in drag and Taz and Taz She-Devil and so on.
But the enlightening thing is...
Let's take the smallest one, the Michigan J Frog. This was a pretty small
piece. You
could hold it in the palm of your hand and it wouldn't be more than a pound.
This
cost 170 dollars.
The standard size for them cost about 300-400 dollars. The standard size
was about
a 10-by-4-inch wide base and 4-inch characters on top of that. (The
roadrunner/
coyote Goebel was kickass.) The largest, about the size of a huge dinner
platter,
was 1000 bucks.
And yes, these were all porcelain, just like Unicron will be. And Unicron
will probably
be made out of more material than that $1000 piece. For 1/10th the cost.
For
1/10th the number of pieces produced.
Taken in that context, that of mainstream porcelain collectables, Unicron is
a
FANTASTIC deal.
--David
Paul Segal
>From: "Stranger" Phantom-...@mail.utexas.edu
>Message-id: <9u9j6t$1nm$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
>
>Paul Segal <jask...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20011130223149...@mb-df.aol.com...
>
>> Well, those large DC statues sold for about that much at the WB stores,
>but
>> they were fairly simple designs in terms of detail.
>> I wish I'd picked up that awesome Riddler...
>
>
>Weren;t they also made of cheap material?
Dunno; never actually got any. Just pointing out that some large licensed
statues are cheap.
>Too bad the WB store closed- they
>did have some neat items.
Yeah, all the beanie cartoon characters you want :)
Paul Segal
>Date: 12/1/01 11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <qK7O7.249$Bf....@ord-read.news.verio.net>
>
>> > Well, those large DC statues sold for about that much at the WB stores,
>> but
>> > they were fairly simple designs in terms of detail.
>> > I wish I'd picked up that awesome Riddler...
>>
>> Weren;t they also made of cheap material? Too bad the WB store closed-
>they
>> did have some neat items.
>
>The DC maquettes were made out of ... resin, I think? Heh, I'm no sure, and
>I *sold* those to people. Well, it was a while ago. Each statue was about
>10
>inches tall and sold for (guess what?) 150 dollars. And these were limited
>edition
>replications of what the animators are given as reference models.
The one I'm talking about, according to this review:
http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com/columnists/crawford/reviews_120800.html
Is 14" and sold for $45.
Walkerton
and
> >I *sold* those to people. Well, it was a while ago. Each statue was
about
> >10
> >inches tall and sold for (guess what?) 150 dollars. And these were
limited
> >edition
> >replications of what the animators are given as reference models.
>
> The one I'm talking about, according to this review:
>
> http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com/columnists/crawford/reviews_120800.html
>
> Is 14" and sold for $45.
....oh, god, THOSE.
Those weren't even part of the Warner Bros gallery. They were mass-release
sort of things with no limit to how many they could make. They were made
out
of resin, looked like crap, chipped like a bopped bag of Doritos, and had
really
sloppy paint jobs. Poison Ivy looked HORRIBLE.
They're certainly a cheaper alternative. Very, very cheap.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Steve-o Stonebraker
> Then why not charge an exorbitant fee for something worthwhile, like a TOY
> instead of a STATUE?
*Nothing* related to Unicron is "worthwhile" because he is a fictional
character that your life does not require for its continuence. This item,
like all Transformers, is something that you buy if you like it enough to
pay for it. No one is holding a gun to your head saying that you must
purchase it.
Jack & Co.
of African countries and all.
Octavulg
ShadowWing
exclusives (which for some reason *does* mean more to certain
collectors--just ask Star Wars or Star Trek collectors or the folks at QVC
and other shopping channels) and will include an exclusive MIP toy. Plus the
statue will be in a G1-style package, which might be part of the cost.
______________________________________________
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ShadowWing
Bombblast17 wrote
>I'm hopeing there will still be some available after christmas, but I
>fear dealers wanting to turn a quick buck on ebay will dash that.
I think this is the big problem with "releasing" this now. Many people
are already spending big buck on Christmas presents, and may already have
other expenses (like bills) to spend money on. It might of been a better
idea to wait until after New Years, when people would of begun bringing
their finances back up.
A.Patyk
Steve-o Stonebraker wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 02:24:12 -0800, A.Patyk wrote:
>> Then why not charge an exorbitant fee for something worthwhile, like a
TOY
>> instead of a STATUE?
>
>*Nothing* related to Unicron is "worthwhile" because he is a fictional
>character that your life does not require for its continuence. This item,
>like all Transformers, is something that you buy if you like it enough to
>pay for it. No one is holding a gun to your head saying that you must
>purchase it.
>
Way to misunderstand. My point was exactly that: if they want to charge an
exorbitant fee, make a Transformers TOY of Unicron, at least a PVC. It is a
TOY line. Therefore a "toy" would be a more worthwhile addition to the line
than an extraneous collectible. Your mileage may vary.
Brian Kilby
"A.Patyk" <paty...@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:9ubs6j$289s$1...@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
>
> Steve-o Stonebraker wrote in message ...
> >On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 02:24:12 -0800, A.Patyk wrote:
> >> Then why not charge an exorbitant fee for something worthwhile, like a
> TOY
> >> instead of a STATUE?
> >
> >*Nothing* related to Unicron is "worthwhile" because he is a fictional
> >character that your life does not require for its continuence. This
item,
> >like all Transformers, is something that you buy if you like it enough to
> >pay for it. No one is holding a gun to your head saying that you must
> >purchase it.
> >
>
Uh...huh. Last I checked The Transformers wasn't just a toy line. There are
TV series, comic series, lunch box(es) and scores of other non-toy items
with Transformers stamped on it. Luckily, Botcon is a Transformers
convention. Not a toy convention.
Even if the price were exorbitant (and it's certainly not), 3H is doing a
service to all the nostalgia-loving fans out there by providing this piece.
Toy or no. In fact, I'm far more inclined to pay $150 for a _nice_ statue
than I am a crummy toy that turns into a damn beach ball.
______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net
Paul Segal
>Message-id: <7g9O7.257$Bf....@ord-read.news.verio.net>
Ah, I see. Great sculpt on that Riddler, though.
Walkerton
> are already spending big buck on Christmas presents, and may already have
> other expenses (like bills) to spend money on. It might of been a better
> idea to wait until after New Years, when people would of begun bringing
> their finances back up.
So then buy one after New Years. Problem solved. /:)
--David
geeeez...
www.itswalky.com
Hooper X
You don't HAVE TO HAVE a fucking Unicron. You can live the rest of your
natural goddamned lives without a giant piece of porcelain shaped like a
retarded plot device from a crappy movie.
That being said, I'm buying two. One to keep, and one to play with.
-HX
"I must kill you, because God told me to." -Tigatron(?)
"Vooral die smeerlap van een Hooper X !! QWe hate yopu !!!!!!!!" -Drunken
Dutchmen
www.sexsexworld.com <-PLEASE KILL MY LONELY.
To contact me, take off that stupid looking hat you wear.
DarkClaw
>That being said, I'm buying two. One to keep, and one to play with.
Don't forget at least one or two more to keep and eventually sell
later on at inflated prices.
-- DC; And let's not forget about repaints
"Journalism is just a gun. It's only got one bullet in it, but if you
aim right, that's all you need. Aim it right, and you can blow a
kneecap off the world..."
--Spider Jerusalem, "Transmetropolitan"
A.Patyk
Brian Kilby wrote in message <3c098...@corp-goliath.newsgroups.com>...
>
>Uh...huh. Last I checked The Transformers wasn't just a toy line. There are
>TV series, comic series, lunch box(es) and scores of other non-toy items
>with Transformers stamped on it. Luckily, Botcon is a Transformers
>convention. Not a toy convention.
Thanks for that bit of wonderful info. TRANSFORMERS is a toy line. It is a
toy line that has a successful series of cartoons and comics to support its
mythos, but it is still a toy line. That said, when one of those important
story characters (who has not yet appeared as a TOY) is being released for
the first time, I'd prefer for it to be something along the lines of a toy,
poseable PVC, etc. instead of just an immobile, expensive hunk of rock.
Doug Kern
<paty...@msu.edu> wrote:
See this link for that answer
http://www.botcon.com/forsale/unifaq.html
That explains fully why 3H can't have a toy.
--
Doug Kern
AKA
Monocle
ICQ Page #:8793444
dougla...@earthlink.net
Walkerton
a
> toy line that has a successful series of cartoons and comics to support
its
> mythos, but it is still a toy line. That said, when one of those
important
> story characters (who has not yet appeared as a TOY) is being released for
> the first time, I'd prefer for it to be something along the lines of a
toy,
> poseable PVC, etc. instead of just an immobile, expensive hunk of rock.
SO THEN DON'T BUY IT.
No one is REQUIRING YOU TO BUY IT.
Guess what? 3H can't make toys. They don't have the income. They don't
have the know-how. But guess what? They can sponsor a statue! Gee!
We can't get a Unicron toy, so why not try to get a statue, at the very
least?
Maybe make some people happy that we get the first representation of a
character
ever, for the first time?
NO.
PEOPLE WILL BITCH AT YOU BECAUSE IT ISN'T EXACTLY WHAT
THEY WANT.
People SUCK.
God, I hate this fandom. Sometimes I wonder why 3H even TRIES.
--David
GOD DAMMIT.
www.itswalky.com
Hooper X
>God, I hate this fandom. Sometimes I wonder why 3H even TRIES.
They're in it for the mad phat hoochies, man. Organizing BotCon gets you
SERIOUS play.
-HX, bling bling.
Tengu
> exorbitant fee, make a Transformers TOY of Unicron, at least a PVC. It is a
> TOY line. Therefore a "toy" would be a more worthwhile addition to the line
> than an extraneous collectible. Your mileage may vary.
>
I see. You're of the opinion that $150.00 is an exorbitant price to
pay for a limited edition cold-cast porcelain statue of Unicron, a
statue that has been specifically commissioned by 3H based on fan
comments and which features a price that, regardless of what some
people seem to believe, is remarkably competitive when compared with
other such collectibles currently on the market. I can understand
that. Even more, you'd rather have a Unicron toy at the same price,
or from what you seem to indicate you'd rather have a Unicron toy at a
less "exorbitant" price. Just so I have a handle on where you're
coming from.
First and foremost, you appear to have no idea of what costs are
involved in creating a toy exclusive, or more specifically in the
context of this discussion, a toy exclusive that is not based on
existing tooling or production models. If I may be so bold, allow me
to enlighten you. If the 3H gang were at some point capable of
producing, by themselves, an actual factual honest-to-heaven
transforming/articulated/mold-manufactured toy of Unicron, the final
cost to you, the convention-goer, would quite possibly be in the range
of several thousand dollars per unit. This retail price would
probably factor in the hundreds of thousands of dollars necessary to
have the toy designed, tooled, and produced. It might also account
for the thousands upon thousands of dollars which would no doubt be
spent during safety testing, engineering re-works, and for licensing
fees to the company which owns the rights to this character (Hasbro).
It would, of course, also include the shameful cost of allowing 3H to
gain a profit from the sale of such a toy, or perhaps even to repay
the several Hasbro engineers and designers who already work sixteen
hour days and who I'm sure wouldn't mind not seeing their families for
a year or so while the details of "the exclusive BotCon Unicron toy"
are worked out. Oh, and I'm sure 3H would cover the costs of
packaging for the toy, because it would most likely be nothing more
extravagant than a Ziploc bag - simply because any other packaging
attempts might double the cost of the toy, which, in its final state,
would measure upwards of an impressive five inches tall.
I realize that a lot of people have this wonderful fan-dream of a
giant, transforming Unicron toy that will cost them
maybe-even-as-much-as-150-bucks that they can play with for ten
minutes and then put up on a shelf to gather dust for several months.
Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen if you're looking for 3H to be
the company to *make* it happen. So, if you're inclined to view the
Transformers universe and its cast of characters as more than just an
excuse to make plastic robots, the Unicron statue might be up your
alley. If not, you can sit idly by, *not* purchase a Unicron statue,
and be thankful that you are not one of those crazy people willing to
spend 150 bucks on some silly object that will only sit on their shelf
and gather dust for several months.
It's always nice to have options.
Tengu:<>
superspy
and then said news:9udr28$hik$1...@msunews.cl.msu.edu:
>
> Brian Kilby wrote in message
> <3c098...@corp-goliath.newsgroups.com>...
> Thanks for that bit of wonderful info. TRANSFORMERS is a toy line.
> It is a toy line that has a successful series of cartoons and comics
> to support its mythos, but it is still a toy line. That said, when
> one of those important story characters (who has not yet appeared as a
> TOY) is being released for the first time, I'd prefer for it to be
> something along the lines of a toy, poseable PVC, etc. instead of just
> an immobile, expensive hunk of rock.
>
>
I want to thank you, it's been so long since I've had the chance to tell
someone to get their head out of their ass, I do miss that. Brian's
point, which I'm sure flew over your head faster than Chuck Yeager
strapped to a fucking rocket pack was that Transfomers' roots are in a
toyline, but there's enough auxillary, non-toy merchandise out there
that's just as cool (or not).
This Unicron statue is one of those things, why you can't fathom this
decision is a complete mystery. The reasons for Unicron (e.g., Neo) not
appearing as a transformable toy have been belabored to death, I'm not
going to repeat them; likewise, the reasoning for the price of the Hard
Hero statue has also been explained adequetly. If you've got such a hard
on for a poseable Unicron toy, go make one your damned self. Seriously,
the whining, bitching, and general attitude of people around here when
things don't go EXACTLY their way is nauseating. Oh boo-hoo-hoo, cry me a
river. 3H does something incredibly cool and you take it as an affront to
the fandom because you can't *play* with it? Way to piss on them.
'spy, God, I hope you don't go to Botcon. I hate the people that bitch
bitch bitch bitch bitch, especially at the 3H panel.
Brian Kilby
>
> Brian Kilby wrote in message <3c098...@corp-goliath.newsgroups.com>...
> >
> >Uh...huh. Last I checked The Transformers wasn't just a toy line. There
are
> >TV series, comic series, lunch box(es) and scores of other non-toy items
> >with Transformers stamped on it. Luckily, Botcon is a Transformers
> >convention. Not a toy convention.
>
> Thanks for that bit of wonderful info. TRANSFORMERS is a toy line. It is
a
> toy line that has a successful series of cartoons and comics to support
its
> mythos, but it is still a toy line.
Excellent job missing the point, I congratulate you. Of course, this is all
irrelavent to the basic point laid out in the other post. If you care to
check, as stated, Botcon is a Transformers convention. Meaning that it
covers the entirety of the Transformers property. Toys, media and other
extraneous miscellanea. For you, the underlying toy line may be the most
"worthwhile" of the Transformers property. However, we are not limited by
your definition of what The Transformers is.
Hooper X
blah blah blah Tengu blah blah
>It's always nice to have options.
I love you, Tengu.
-HX
A.Patyk
miss the point of what someone's trying to say because it differs from their
own myopic views.
Refresher: I don't want a frigging Unicron statue. No matter the price, I'm
not buying one. You want to support it, go ahead. I'm not. Key word:
"I" - as in, MY opinion. I'm going to bitch about this all I fucking want,
regardless of those who would rather bend over and accept anything instead
of trying to get what they really want.
I'm not demanding a transformable Neo Unicron for $25 or anything insane,
which is the conclusion some idiots seem to have jumped to without reading
and understanding what I wrote. I'm just saying that the character's first
real appearance should be SOME kind of poseable toy. Are you going to tell
me that molding and producing a new Unicron PVC with moveable arms and head
is going to cost MORE than molding and producing a goddamn new COLD CAST
PORCELEIN STATUE? Don't make me laugh.
You're damn right I'm going to complain because it's not a Unicron you can
"play" with. A PVC would be a much more cost-effective and (to me) useful
addition to the Transformers range than a statue. The statue is a
pretention that I could do without.
Rik Bakke
superiority.
--
Rik Bakke
silve...@c2i.net
The Cybertron Chronicle
Down, But Not Out
Transformers Fan Code
G++ FR FW+ #74 D+ AA+ N++ W++ B++ OQP BC98++ BC99++ BC2000++ BC2001++ CN+++ OM+
Paul Segal
>Date: 12/2/01 6:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20011202183609...@mb-mh.aol.com>
>
>(cc'ed to email)
>blah blah blah Tengu blah blah
>
>>It's always nice to have options.
>
>I love you, Tengu.
>
I love you too, Tengu. Now where's the Badass Robot of the Month?
A.Patyk
Rik Bakke wrote in message ...
>Nothing like a subject header like yours to show intellectual
>superiority.
Hey, you have to target your message at your audience. When the audience is
a bunch of Transfans who want to jump to a series of rude and condescending
conclusions without even bothering to understand the message they're
responding to, there you go...
Paul Segal
>Date: 12/2/01 2:06 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <douglasskern-9DD5...@news.earthlink.net>
>
>
>See this link for that answer
>
>http://www.botcon.com/forsale/unifaq.html
>
>That explains fully why 3H can't have a toy.
"What is the statue made of?
The material is the same for all the other Hard Hero statues -- cold cast
porcelain, similar to the resin statues offered by other notable statue
companies."
I didn't think porcelain was that similar to resin...
Walkerton
superspy
>
> You're damn right I'm going to complain because it's not a Unicron you
> can "play" with. A PVC would be a much more cost-effective and (to
> me) useful addition to the Transformers range than a statue. The
> statue is a pretention that I could do without.
>
>
Know what? Who the *hell* asked you?
'spy, apparently some of us think we have our fingers on the pulse of the
fandom.
Hooper X
>When the audience is
>a bunch of Transfans who want to jump to a series of rude and condescending
>conclusions without even bothering to understand the message they're
>responding to
I understand the message loud and clear.
1: You're a stupid fucking cumgargle.
2: Wah wah wah PVC NOT STATUE!!!1
3: BotCon and 3H should drop all pretentions of knowing what fans want, and
bump you up to Supreme Fan Know It All.
4: You're a useless goddamn jizzum receptacle.
A.Patyk
No one. That doesn't matter, though, does it? This is a forum where people
give their opinions on all things Transformer. When you grow up, you may
realize that not all of them agree with your own. When the best thing you
can think of is "Who asked you," you really prove my point. Idiot.
What's even MORE ironic about this is that you jumped into this with your
opinion in the first place. Un-asked, I might add. Hmmm.
superspy wrote in message ...
superspy
> You really are dense. Who asked *you* about *your* opinion on the
I'm not dense, I just grow weary of baseless bitching very quickly. I
mean...Jesus Christ, you're acting like this is a god damned travesty.
You've said that you don't want it, fine. But don't get all pissy about
it being a statue just because it doesn't match some wet dream of yours
and not expect people to hate you so.
> statue? No one. That doesn't matter, though, does it? This is a
> forum where people give their opinions on all things Transformer.
> When you grow up, you may realize that not all of them agree with your
> own. When the best thing you can think of is "Who asked you," you
> really prove my point. Idiot.
If you took a second to think, which obviously isn't too high on your list
of scheduled activities, I was alluding to your sudden prowess in business
practices. If there was a PVC, would more people buy it? Less people?
How about a statue? These are things that I'm sure 3H thought over more
carefully than your shutgun analysis of the "situation". Go sit down,
buddy. Your time on the floor was up as soon as you opened your hole.
Love, superspy.
Aaron F. Bourque
>This is a forum where people give their opinions on all things
>Transformer.
::sigh::
You are tiresome.
clueX4: In a place with (potentially) unlimited voices spouting
(potentially) unlimited opinions, don't be surprised when--after
spouting your (potentially) worthless opinion on whatever the flaming flying
flusterpuck--people spout their opinion right back
at you.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; in my opinion, if you don't want the blasted
thing, don't buy it--if enough people don't buy
the statue, 3H will never try anything like it again (they're a
sensitive lot, y'see)
--
http://delinquents.keenspace.com/d/20010703.html
Damn the tree and all its kind!
Nothing's impossible in the hot soul.
A.Patyk
making my opinion known applies just as easily to your own opinion on the
matter. The only difference is that you like your cuddly and fuzzy opinion
but think mine is bad because it's just not the same as yours. Golly!
Translation: you're both a fucking idiot and a hypocrite.
Hooper X wrote in message <20011202192938...@mb-mh.aol.com>...
A.Patyk
superspy wrote in message ...
>If you took a second to think, which obviously isn't too high on your list
>of scheduled activities, I was alluding to your sudden prowess in business
>practices. If there was a PVC, would more people buy it? Less people?
>How about a statue? These are things that I'm sure 3H thought over more
>carefully than your shutgun analysis of the "situation".
Yeah, I guess all that "sudden" marketing experience isn't doing me too much
good here. If someone would care to point out specifically how a PVC would
A) cost more to produce/sell and B) get fewer buyers than a statue and thus
have a lower profit margin, please feel free. Until then...
> Go sit down,
>buddy. Your time on the floor was up as soon as you opened your hole.
Whatever you say, Dad. Gosh, I'm so sorry I spoke up now!
Hooper X
>The only difference is that you like your cuddly and fuzzy opinion
>but think mine is bad because it's just not the same as yours.
Firstly, by referring to ANYTHING that comes out of my mouth as "cuddly and
fuzzy," you've proven yourself an idiot manchild.
Second, I could care less about your stupid fucking opinion. Your opinion
matters to me only insofar as it proves that you're a complete and utter waste
of protoplasm.
Third, I could care less if you're not going to buy the statue. Boo fuckin'
hoo, someone else will be more than glad to step to the plate and snag the one
you didn't want.
However, the asinine whining that 3H, if they REALLY cared about Transformers,
would have made a PVC or Neo Unicron or some other random improbable shit just
goes to further prove my point, that you, sir, are a shitstain upon the face of
this fandom.
You are pathetically retarded even by TRANSFAN standards.
A.Patyk
PVC as opposed to a statue. And that a PVC is somehow more "improbable"
than a PORCELEIN STATUE.
Well, *I'm* certainly convinced now. That you're a total idiot.
Hooper X wrote in message <20011202195239...@mb-mh.aol.com>...
Hooper X
>I guess I'm "pathetically retarded" because I said that I'd prefer a toy or
>PVC as opposed to a statue.
No, you're pathetically retarded because you won't shut the goddamned fuck up
about it. So you want a PVC instead. Whoopdeshit, I'd rather have a
full-sized transforming Nightbeat, but hey, you don't hear me bitching about
it, do you? (Except in regards to bitching about other peoples' bitching.)
And that a PVC is somehow more "improbable"
>than a PORCELEIN STATUE.
Well, given that there's a third-party company out there who were more than
willing to tool up the porcelain statue, as opposed to a PVC, which would have
required 3H to A: Find someone to sculpt it, and B: find someone to produce it.
Note: Being that Takara makes the PVCs, and I don't think they know/care about
3H, asking Takara to do it is most likely out of the question. Hasbro doesn't
have the PVC production stuff, to the best of my knowledge. Hard Hero,
however, has all the stuff handy to make a porcelain statue.
So yes, it is more "improbable." In that 3H can call up the Hard Hero team and
say "Hi, this is 3H. We want a statue for BotCon." Unless you know something
I don't, I can't think of anyone they could do that for to get a PVC. Or a
toy, for that matter.
Of course, I guess they COULD call Takara. "Hi, this is 3H. We'd like your
unused Unicron prototype tooled into a toy for our convention."
"Moshi moshi? This is Takara. We are sorry that we cannot give you UNICRON
toy. However, feel free to take these fine warehouse full of the good and nice
Web Diver."
Does that make sense to you? If not, lemme pare it down to basics.
3H can get a porcelain statue easier than they can get a PVC or toy. The
contacts are in place for a statue that are not present for either of the other
options.
Is that simple enough for you, pal?
Paul Segal
>Unicron
>From: "A.Patyk" paty...@msu.edu
>Date: 12/2/01 10:38 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <9uegsv$27au$1...@msunews.cl.msu.edu>
>
>Although you're apparently too dim to understand, your argument against my
>making my opinion known applies just as easily to your own opinion on the
>matter. The only difference is that you like your cuddly and fuzzy opinion
>but think mine is bad because it's just not the same as yours. Golly!
>
>Translation: you're both a fucking idiot and a hypocrite.
>
Hooper made an argument against yours?
I thought he just called you a cumgargle, in addition to some other insults and
mockery.
Walkerton
> contacts are in place for a statue that are not present for either of the
other
> options.
>
> Is that simple enough for you, pal?
10 to 1, no. He's gonna ignore everything you say and go with his original
premise of "I know more than 3H does about their own god damn business."
As far as I know, Hard Hero probably asked BOTCON if they could do
an exclusive statue, not the other way around. 3H said, "Sure." What do
you think they should have responded? "No, people would rather have
a PVC, regardless of the impossibility of said option. We're going to have
to go with NOTHING."
You know, ten years ago, after G1 had died and the prospects of Transformers
ever existing ever again were slimmer than Calista Flockhearts waistline,
people would have KILLED for such merchandise. Why? Because it's
TRANSFORMERS MERCHANDISE. And we LIKE Transformers. We didn't
have a toyline. We didn't have a yearly convention hosted by obviously the
most
tolerant men on the planet. We didn't have SHIT. If you showed us a pencil
with
"Transformers" written on it, it would be the coolest thing in the world and
we'd
pay 10 dollars to have it.
Now look at us. We're given the opportunity to have a 16" statue of
Unicron,
the MacGuffin Supreme, the Bigger Than Life monster, the most treasured
holy grail of all Transformers characters who never got a proper toy, and
look
at what we do. We bitch because it isn't EXACTLY what we wanted.
Maybe 3H should just take the statue down, since it's so insulting to our
fandom. No more Unicron statue for you. We'd rather wait for a PVC or
a toy instead. Well, WAIT FOREVER. That won't ever happen. And ten
years from now you'll think, "Gee, I wish I'd had the *opportunity* to order
that. I could have been given the CHOICE to order a Unicron statue. It
was up to me to have that statue."
But apparently we don't want that choice. We want our way or the highway.
All or nothing. Fuck good intentions, because if I don't get exactly what I
want,
I'll just cry and scream and whine even though it does me no good because
what I want isn't FEASIBLE. It isn't POSSIBLE. It's LUDICROUS. Yet
that won't stop me from whining about it, no sirree. It's 3H's fault they
can't
afford to make a Unicron toy. That has to be it. They couldn't make a
Unicron
toy, and their attempts to do the next best thing are a slap in the face to
all
Transfandom. OH yeah. That's exactly it.
I hope you burn in Hell.
--David
www.itswalky.com
ShadowWing
A.Patyk wrote
>If someone would care to point out specifically how a PVC would
>A) cost more to produce/sell and B) get fewer buyers than a statue and
>thus have a lower profit margin, please feel free.
I believe Hooper has covered this one, but to paraphrase or recap or
something, Hard Hero already has the necessary agreements to make
Transformers characters, and yet does not have PVC-making equipment. In
fact, no known US company has those licensing agreements, and hiring the
same "forces" Takara is using to create the PVCs would probably be expensive
on its own, and a royal pain to produce, should something be lost in the
translation. (Just ask an in-the-know Robotech fan why Robotech 2:The
Sentinels never got further than a home video. One of the reasons as I've
heard it was a communication breakdown between the animators and Harmony
Gold.)
On paper, sure a PVC would seem to cost less, but the devil is in the
details, and it might actually end up being more trouble than it's worth.
______________________________________________
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ShadowWing
Walkerton wrote
>
>God, I hate this fandom. Sometimes I wonder why 3H even TRIES.
Probably for the (hopefully) majority that do care and realise you can't
get what you want. Slagging pit, this fandom can't even come to a mutual
decision on what they want, anyway! Robotic animals, realistic animals,
technorganic animals, Beast Mutants, Earth vehicles, Cybertronian vehicles,
pro-HeadTargetPowerMasters, anti-HeadTargetPowerMasters, pro Action Masters,
anti-Action Masters...it goes on and on ad nauseum, etc.
3H Enterprises can't, for whatever reason, make toys, but are able to
get a hold on statues that someone else is making for mass release anyway. I
can understand that. I personally can't afford it, and I don't have anywhere
to display it. Sure I'd like a toy version, but they do not, and probably
will never, exist. Don't worry, Dave, some of us *can* "deal with it". It's
a fact of life, folks. End of transmission.
All I really want is the comic, and they might not be releasing that
seperate of the toys next yeat. Now *that* is something to be annoyed about!
:)
Steve-o Stonebraker
> Refresher: I don't want a frigging Unicron statue. No matter the price, I'm
> not buying one. You want to support it, go ahead. I'm not.
Totally fine.
> I'm going to bitch about this all I fucking want,
Not fine.
If you had simply said "I'd prefer a toy" as you claimed in another post,
this thread would be 10% of its present size. Instead, you called the
idea "ridiculous" and then said "why not charge an exorbitant fee for
something worthwhile, like a TOY instead of a STATUE?" Negativity breeds
negativity. Complaining in this manner calls down the flames because the
subtext of your posts say "this is a stupid idea, 3H are screwing us, and
none of you realize it".
I'm reminded of a post I made some time ago that Zobovor brought up a
month or two back... Among other things, I said this: "When it comes to
[the sort of thing] which does nothing but expand the fandom and bring
happiness (or amusement) to fans, then criticizing that contribution in a
manner which lacks respect is just unacceptable to me. Rude, childish,
and utterly pointless." That is what you did, and that is why people are
angry. Polite criticism is welcomed here, but rude criticism is not.
> regardless of those who would rather bend over and accept anything instead
> of trying to get what they really want.
Hello, Clone Of What People Think Raksha Is. The people who are acting
excited about this statue are *actually* excited about the statue. They
have not been brainwashed into thinking they like it when their natural
reaction is to say it suxx0rz. Do you really think you know what people
want better than they do?
> and understanding what I wrote. I'm just saying that the character's first
> real appearance should be SOME kind of poseable toy. Are you going to tell
> me that molding and producing a new Unicron PVC with moveable arms and head
> is going to cost MORE than molding and producing a goddamn new COLD CAST
> PORCELEIN STATUE? Don't make me laugh.
::shrug:: Probably not, but I don't really know. I think I would rather
have a big statue, though, than a PVC. YMMV. (Obviously.)
> A PVC would be a much more cost-effective and (to me) useful
> addition to the Transformers range than a statue.
This sentence is also totally fine. Note the lack of insults or
implications that 3H are jerks or other fans sheep.
> The statue is a pretention that I could do without.
I'm not sure what is so pretentious about a statue... this is a statement
that is bound to irritate a lot of people, since it sounds pretty rude.
Care to explain what you mean?
--Steve-o
Hydra & Buster's Masterforce/Victory subtitling project needs donations!
*** http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/hantaakiraa/pt/fansub.html ***
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve R Stonebraker | Transformers FAQ Keeper | Astrophysicist
srst...@yahoo.com | http://astro.bu.edu/~srstoneb/ | AOL IM: srstoneb
Paul Segal
>From: "ShadowWing" the...@SPAMBLOCKADEsnet.net
>Date: 12/2/01 9:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <enBO7.1801$mL4.48...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>
>
>
>Walkerton wrote
>>
>>God, I hate this fandom. Sometimes I wonder why 3H even TRIES.
>
> Probably for the (hopefully) majority that do care and realise you can't
>get what you want. Slagging pit, this fandom can't even come to a mutual
>decision on what they want, anyway! Robotic animals, realistic animals,
>technorganic animals, Beast Mutants, Earth vehicles, Cybertronian vehicles,
>pro-HeadTargetPowerMasters, anti-HeadTargetPowerMasters, pro Action Masters,
>anti-Action Masters...it goes on and on ad nauseum, etc.
>
I wish Hasbro would make more Antiheadtargetpowermasters. Those were the best.
te...@tfmultiverse.com
> Are you going to tell
> me that molding and producing a new Unicron PVC with moveable arms and head
> is going to cost MORE than molding and producing a goddamn new COLD CAST
> PORCELEIN STATUE? Don't make me laugh.
It would indeed, and while I'd like to repeat many of the reasons
I explained in my last post, I doubt such a thing would be a sharp
enough sword to pierce the heart of your seemingly indomitable
ignorance. You do entertain, though.
Tengu:<>
Quag Prime
snip
> Guess what? 3H can't make toys. They don't have the income. They don't
> have the know-how. But guess what? They can sponsor a statue! Gee!
> We can't get a Unicron toy, so why not try to get a statue, at the very
> least?
> Maybe make some people happy that we get the first representation of a
> character
> ever, for the first time?
> NO.
> PEOPLE WILL BITCH AT YOU BECAUSE IT ISN'T EXACTLY WHAT
> THEY WANT.
Yeah, I want a trip to Europe. WHY THE HELL DIDN'T 3H GET ME A
SPECIAL TRIP TO EUROPE?!?!?!?!
> People SUCK.
> God, I hate this fandom. Sometimes I wonder why 3H even TRIES.
>
This negative reaction to the Unicron offering makes me feel the same.
I really find it mind boggleing. A truly great piece at an extremely
great price (for what it is, to those who think it's too expensive).
We know why 3H tries. They love Transformers. They revel in becoming
part of, and creating the mythos. They enjoy giving to the fans who
appreciate it.
Therein lies the problem. Botcon is getting bigger and the negative
voices toward their efforts are growing also. If you and the rest of
the appriciative fans are beginning to wonder why they even try, are
3H asking themselves the same question?
If 3H stops having fun doing what they're doing, Botcon will stop
being a fun event, and ultimately, we'll be left without Botcon. They
won't want to put all that time and energy into a show they don't
enjoy for selfish people they can't stand.
I expect that 3H will get enough preorders to get the Unicron statue
made. There are enough people who want one of these beauties-
including Jon, Carl, and Glenn. If there's something they want as
fans, they bet it's what other fans want as well. So when you and I
and all the fans who thought Unicron was worth the scratch are opening
up our numbered G1 style boxes from Hard Heros/3H, a LOT of people
will be kicking themselves for not ordering a statue of their own.
Oh well, their loss.
Thank you, Carl, Glenn, Jon, Dan, and everyone else.
-Quag
Quag Prime
> It's really amazing how people can jump to a conclusion and then completely
> miss the point of what someone's trying to say because it differs from their
> own myopic views.
>
> Refresher: I don't want a frigging Unicron statue. No matter the price, I'm
> not buying one. You want to support it, go ahead. I'm not. Key word:
> "I" - as in, MY opinion. I'm going to bitch about this all I fucking want,
> regardless of those who would rather bend over and accept anything instead
> of trying to get what they really want.
*snip-o-thecrap*
Fine, fine. But are you making a conscious decision to be a troll?
-Quag
Thylacine 2000
> > People SUCK.
> > God, I hate this fandom. Sometimes I wonder why 3H even TRIES.
> >
> This negative reaction to the Unicron offering makes me feel the same.
> I really find it mind boggleing.
Don't worry. Some of the people who are OUTRAGED by the idea of buying this statue for $150, now, will be
lining up half in tears begging for the chance to buy it for $500 three years from now.
These are the same people who snubbed the $2 GoBots, only to buy $200 Clear Spychangers.
And you KNOW they're out there. ;)
Pyre
>
> Whatever you say, Dad. Gosh, I'm so sorry I spoke up now!
Fuck. You.
Why do I even bother coming here anymore? What's the point? All anyone
wants to do anymore is whine and bitch about such STUPID shit. I'm having
a very difficult time mustering any kind of enthusiasm towards TFs right
now to the point where I walk away from a toy store with nothing even
though I can perfectly afford what I went in looking for. The way things
are going on this group aren't helping either. So what's the point? Why
should I stay here? Does anyone else know, because I have no fucking clue.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"All that has been. All that is. All that's to be.
Lord I'm just killing time, and time's killing me."
- Zakk Wylde
M Sipher
> As far as I know, Hard Hero probably asked BOTCON if they could do
> an exclusive statue, not the other way around. 3H said, "Sure."
It's highly likely. I mean, we know NRG came to 3H, not the other way
around. (Hehehehehehheheheheehhehehehehehehehehe)
And besides, didn't Hard Hero Prime PREMIERE at BotCon? Wasn't that the
first chance anyone had of buying it? Sounds to me like a good working
relationship.
> What do
> you think they should have responded? "No, people would rather have
> a PVC, regardless of the impossibility of said option. We're going to
have
> to go with NOTHING."
Fuck, they let NRG guy come. (No, I will not shut up about that. IT'S
FUNNY.)
> You know, ten years ago, after G1 had died and the prospects of
Transformers
> ever existing ever again were slimmer than Calista Flockhearts waistline,
> people would have KILLED for such merchandise. Why? Because it's
> TRANSFORMERS MERCHANDISE. And we LIKE Transformers. We didn't
> have a toyline. We didn't have a yearly convention hosted by obviously
the
> most
> tolerant men on the planet. We didn't have SHIT. If you showed us a
pencil
> with
> "Transformers" written on it, it would be the coolest thing in the world
and
> we'd
> pay 10 dollars to have it.
Kendrick Kerwin Chua once joked that he'd buy TF-brand dog-food. This was
back in mid-G2, a line we were lucky to have, really. Most people agreed
with him then.
My, how things have changed.
> Now look at us. We're given the opportunity to have a 16" statue of
> Unicron,
> the MacGuffin Supreme, the Bigger Than Life monster, the most treasured
> holy grail of all Transformers characters who never got a proper toy, and
> look
> at what we do. We bitch because it isn't EXACTLY what we wanted.
No, we go beyond bitching. We insult. We wail. We claim grievous emotional
trauma. We accuse the makers of price gouging and insult everyone who
disagrees with us. Then again, Uni-boy here is hardly the first time such
things have caused such reactions in this fandom....
Now, it's one thing to not be interested in the statue. I'm not.
It's partly the price tag. I know it's not by any stretch an exorbitant fee
for the item, but it IS more than I feel like paying for pretty much ANY
single piece of TF merchandise right now, be it statue, toy, or Scott McNeil
Inflatable Love Doll for when I can't have the real thing. I'm sure that
signed print of Alex Ross' kickass Space Ghost painting at the WB store
isn't badly-priced for what it is, but I haven't got the money to burn on
such luxuries anymore.
... Then again, I did fork over $200+ (once you factor in shipping) for a
three-foot-tall hollow-vinyl MegaMan statue from Singapore last year
(official item, really. Has the Capcom brand mark and everything. I think it
was a store display)... but that was certainly a special circumstance. I
think I'm one of two people on this damn HEMISPHERE to own one of those.
It's partly that I'm not totally wild over Unicron on the whole. Though part
of THAT has more to do with being severely burned out on TFTM thanks to
TFMST.
And partly because I can't say I care for the concept art, which indicates
how the final product will look. It's not a very dynamic pose, and I feel
that stuff that large, especially of CHARACTERS so unbelieveably HUGE,
deserves far more detail than a Romita model has. But I understand that to
the vast majority of the buyers' market for these things, to them TFs ARE
the Romita models, so there you go. Personally, I'd much prefer a statue
based on Senior's splash-page of Unicron ripping huge portions of Cybertron
up and stuffing them in his maw, using Senior's STYLE... but that's me. And
I tend to want/crave the obscure and silly. And unprofitable.
(On that note, I find it hilarious that SENIOR of all people gave Unicron
far more detail than pretty much everyone who's done an official piece of
Unicron artwork.)
As you can see, I won't be spending the money on it. But that's the extent
of it. I'm not interested, therefore I won't buy it. Case closed. I move on
with my life. It is a luxury item, nothing more. Other people want it,
yippee. I'm glad to see that 3H CAN get shit like this going... if anything
it shows how far this fandom has COME (though at times I really don't think
it DESERVES it). Good job, 3H. All five of you or however many there are
now.
Yes, I'd rather a toy, but I know it's not plausible by any stretch of the
imagination... and even THAT is a fucking luxury item I can live without.
Besides... THERE'S FOUR MORE TOYS TO BUY THIS YEAR!!! *FOUR!!!*
> Maybe 3H should just take the statue down, since it's so insulting to our
> fandom. No more Unicron statue for you.
And since they're obviously so hateful to the fandom, maybe they should just
stop having BotCons altogether. I know I'd be questioning why I bothered if
I were them.
> But apparently we don't want that choice. We want our way or the highway.
> All or nothing. Fuck good intentions, because if I don't get exactly what
I
> want,
> I'll just cry and scream and whine even though it does me no good because
> what I want isn't FEASIBLE.
No, haven't heard THAT before in this fandom...
> They couldn't make a
> Unicron
> toy, and their attempts to do the next best thing are a slap in the face
to
> all
> Transfandom. OH yeah. That's exactly it.
Remember, if you don't like it, it's a personal insult to YOU.
> I hope you burn in Hell.
Now, now, Walky.
It's "I hope you pan-fry for a few millennia, torn apart by rabid dogs every
night and reassembled by fingerless blind pedophiles, soaked in Murphy's Oil
Soap, pissed on by Pat Robertson every hour, and anally raped by Hitler
every half-hour. Then you'll be given a five-hour reprieve where you're only
allowed to watch 'The Ripping Friends' non-stop with your eyelids peeled
back like in Clockwork Orange while John Krickfalusi explains why he is the
only true cartoonist ever in the history of the world. You will not get to
see what HIS punishment is. Then it's back to the
rabid-dog-rip-pedophile-reassemble-oil-soap-Robertson-piss-Hitler-rape, only
this time to the strains of Uncle Cracker and Kid Rock songs."
M "On That Note, BotConBeyond.Com Has Just Announced That They're Giving
Corrected BC'00 Dinner-Exclusive Predacon-Cast Posters, Now With Inferno,
Free Of Charge To Everyone Who Got The Infernoless One. Let The Bitching And
Wailing Begin" Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions - home of the productions of King Weasel!
Transformers, RockMan, original art, the solutions to all life's problems
and other crap!
http://members.fortunecity.com/msipher
Home of That Big Transformers Variations List and MegaMan/RockMan Toy &
Merchandise Archive!
Zobovor the Caffeine Addict
>You know, ten years ago, after G1 had died and the prospects of
>Transformers ever existing ever again were slimmer than Calista
>Flockhearts waistline, people would have KILLED for such
>merchandise. Why? Because it's TRANSFORMERS
>MERCHANDISE...if you showed us a pencil with "Transformers" written
>on it, it would be the coolest thing in the world and we'd pay 10 dollars
>to have it.
I actually found my Transformers pencils the other day. Crappy little
line-drawing reproduction of Prime and Megatron's box art. Colored very badly,
too. I love 'em. :)
>Now look at us. We're given the opportunity to have a 16" statue of
>Unicron, the MacGuffin Supreme, the Bigger Than Life monster, the
>most treasured holy grail of all Transformers characters who never got a
>proper toy, and look at what we do. We bitch because it isn't
>EXACTLY what we wanted.
Surely you realize, though, that even though the statue could potentially be
pretty cool, Unicron *still* won't have gotten a proper toy.
>Maybe 3H should just take the statue down, since it's so insulting to
>our fandom. No more Unicron statue for you. We'd rather wait for a
>PVC or a toy instead. Well, WAIT FOREVER. That won't ever
>happen.
Things change. My suspicion is that the reason 3H is taking the official
position that these things will never happen is to encourage sales of the
porcelain statue. Nothing at all wrong with that, of course. My suspicion is
that we'll see some all-new toy-related BotCon merchadise in... oh, the next
three years or so. (Mark my words. Hey, I was right about Arcee, wasn't I?)
>It's 3H's fault they can't afford to make a Unicron toy. That has to be it.
> They couldn't make a Unicron toy, and their attempts to do the next
>best thing are a slap in the face to all Transfandom. OH yeah. That's
>exactly it.
I tried to write a response to this, but I found that I couldn't sugar-coat it
enough to avoid starting an argument, so I just dropped it altogether.
I will say this, though. 3H is in a unique position because, unlike Hasbro,
they can offer Transformers-related items that specifically cater to the fan
base. They're not forced to only produce toys that will appeal to children and
that will sell in the hundreds of thousands. It's incredibly cool that the
fandom gets this opportunity at all.
I am of the opinion, however, that if 3H can't deliver what the fans are hoping
for, it's better to devote their resources elsewhere. An Arcee spider and a
porcelain Unicron are pretty cool, I guess, but they're not exactly what fans
have been clamoring for. If it were up to me, I'd rather see that money go
towards something like another toy exclusive, or a minor retooling to one of
the molds, or something like that.
>I hope you burn in Hell.
Well, glad to see this silly statue thingy is bringing out the best in people.
Zobovor... I mean, really. For every person who raises complaints because they
don't like what Hasbro or Takara or 3H is doing, there are ten more people who
jump in saying that they have no right to complain and that they just need to
shut the hell up. The original complaints, even the rude ones, do serve a
purpose--they let these companies know how the fandom feels about what they're
doing. The latter complaints have no redeemable value whatsoever, at least
that I can ascertain.
Zobovor the Caffeine Addict
>Oh, and I'm sure 3H would cover the costs of packaging for the toy,
>because it would most likely be nothing more extravagant than a Ziploc
>bag - simply because any other packaging attempts might double the
>cost of the toy, which, in its final state, would measure upwards of an
>impressive five inches tall.
I'd be perfectly content if 3H sold their BotCon toys in a plastic baggie, if
it significantly reduces the cost of the final toy. After all, it's not like
these toys have to compete for the buyer's attention on a shelf filled with 20
other robot toy lines. 3H *knows* these exclusives will sell, regardless of
the presentation.
>I realize that a lot of people have this wonderful fan-dream of a
>giant, transforming Unicron toy that will cost them
>maybe-even-as-much-as-150-bucks that they can play with for ten
>minutes and then put up on a shelf to gather dust for several months.
That's exactly right. And every time they walked by that shelf, they'd be able
to go, "Now, THAT is the toy I've wanted them to make since 1986. THAT is a
huge, fully transformable, physical representation of Unicron that looks
exactly like the character from the movie."
Zobovor... I guess fans are just silly, that way.
Trent Troop
Zobovor the Caffeine Addict <zob...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011203031644...@mb-fa.aol.com...
> Things change. My suspicion is that the reason 3H is taking the official
> position that these things will never happen is to encourage sales of the
> porcelain statue. Nothing at all wrong with that, of course. My
suspicion is
> that we'll see some all-new toy-related BotCon merchadise in... oh, the
next
> three years or so. (Mark my words. Hey, I was right about Arcee, wasn't
I?)
I think the reason 3H takes that position is because the future can't be
predicted. There is a good chance that this is going to be the best/only
representation of the Unicron character that's coming for quite some time. I
doubt its any sort of diabolical statue-selling plan.
> I will say this, though. 3H is in a unique position because, unlike
Hasbro,
> they can offer Transformers-related items that specifically cater to the
fan
> base. They're not forced to only produce toys that will appeal to
children and
> that will sell in the hundreds of thousands. It's incredibly cool that
the
> fandom gets this opportunity at all.
They do have certain limits. And I think people are looking at this all
wrong. People are looking at it from the standpoint of "we want a toy, and
all you can give us is a Hard Hero statue?" When the reality of the
situation is that the Hartmans had an opening to get a HH statue made, and
picked an underrepresented character, so there would be _SOME_
representation of him, statue or toy or otherwise, available. People are, in
essence, getting angry that they have the option to chose wether or not to
purchase statue. If you don't want the statue, you're not out anything.
> I am of the opinion, however, that if 3H can't deliver what the fans are
hoping
> for, it's better to devote their resources elsewhere. An Arcee spider and
a
> porcelain Unicron are pretty cool, I guess, but they're not exactly what
fans
> have been clamoring for. If it were up to me, I'd rather see that money
go
> towards something like another toy exclusive, or a minor retooling to one
of
> the molds, or something like that.
We're already getting four toy exclusives this year. Its not like all these
different endeavors are lumped into one big pool of funds. The presence of
posters and statues and tote-bags has very little to do with what they can
negotiate out of Hasbro, after all. And I liked the Arcee Spider. The statue
is there for the people who want it.
> Zobovor... I mean, really. For every person who raises complaints because
they
> don't like what Hasbro or Takara or 3H is doing, there are ten more people
who
> jump in saying that they have no right to complain and that they just need
to
> shut the hell up. The original complaints, even the rude ones, do serve a
> purpose--they let these companies know how the fandom feels about what
they're
> doing. The latter complaints have no redeemable value whatsoever, at
least
> that I can ascertain.
And the latter serve a purpose as well, they attempt to convey to those rude
people that they're being demanding ingrates, and they also show the
companies that there are people out there who like what they're doing. And
most of those first-run complainers yell from a stance of ignorance.
Correcting the ignorant is no vice, be it with a gentle whisper or the sting
of a cat-o-nine-tails.
-Trent
Trent Troop
> That's exactly right. And every time they walked by that shelf, they'd be
able
> to go, "Now, THAT is the toy I've wanted them to make since 1986. THAT is
a
> huge, fully transformable, physical representation of Unicron that looks
> exactly like the character from the movie."
>
> Zobovor... I guess fans are just silly, that way.
Yes, they are. No one with a lick of sense has any reason to expect a fully
transformable physical representation of any of the 'toon designs. Romita
made some nice humanoid robot designs, a pity a little thing like PHYSICS
would stand it the way of their converstion into actual transforming toys. I
encourage everyone to go slumming in another fandom. Poke around with the
fans of Inhumanoids or Thundercats. Take a look at what we might have been.
A lot of people take a successful, living toyline for granted. I try not to.
-Trent
Zobovor the Caffeine Addict
>I think the reason 3H takes that position is because the future can't be
>predicted.
No, it can't. One day they're saying that they will never offer a BotCon toy
that represents a character owned by Hasbro, and the next, we get Arcee and
Tigatron. Today they're saying that a transforming Unicron toy will never,
ever happen. Who knows what tomorrow might bring?
If it were me, I'd probably have used the phrase "no plans at this time"
instead of "well, then you'll be waiting forever," but hey, that's me.
>I doubt its any sort of diabolical statue-selling plan.
How you got "diabolical" out of "nothing at all wrong with that, of course" is
beyond me.
>People are, in essence, getting angry that they have the option to
>chose wether or not to purchase statue.
I doubt that. My impression is that people thought that the "Unicron is
coming" ad hinted at the possibility of a transforming Unicron toy, and are
disappointed that it's only a statue. (Personally, I'm not angry about it at
all... in fact, I'm thrilled, since it's just one more peripheral piece of
merchandise that I have no interest in owning whatsoever.)
--
Zobovor
Who's the shark NOW, baby?!
http://members.aol.com/zobovor/index.html
Zobovor the Caffeine Addict
>No one with a lick of sense has any reason to expect a fully
>transformable physical representation of any of the 'toon designs.
Funny, I seem to remember Hasbro coming out with about ten of them back in
1986.
(Admittedly, some were closer to the cartoon models that others. I've
discovered that stripping down those horrible stickers and giving 'em a new
coat of paint can do wonders for them, though. It's certainly not a design or
engineering issue.)
Zobovor... I'd love it if Takara's prototypes for Arcee and Unicron ended up
being produced. Sure, it's a silly fanboyish dream, and doesn't particularly
mesh with reality, but that's sort of the definition of a dream, isn't it?
M Sipher
news:6rHO7.192582$IR4.72...@news1.denver1.co.home.com...
> Zobovor the Caffeine Addict <zob...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20011203033321...@mb-fa.aol.com...
>
> > Zobovor... I guess fans are just silly, that way.
>
> Yes, they are. No one with a lick of sense has any reason to expect a
fully
> transformable physical representation of any of the 'toon designs.
ESPECIALLY not Unicron. Not unless his transformation involved taking him
apart and/or having a ton of panels that are used ONLY in planet mode.
> Romita
> made some nice humanoid robot designs, a pity a little thing like PHYSICS
> would stand it the way of their converstion into actual transforming toys.
Forget transformable. Physics wouldn't allow most of them to have even HALF
the robot-mode articulation the Action Masters did. They'd have all the
range of motion C-3PO does, if that. Waddle into batlle, Autobots!
> I
> encourage everyone to go slumming in another fandom. Poke around with the
> fans of Inhumanoids or Thundercats. Take a look at what we might have
been.
Christ, go look at the He-Man fandom. Go read their message board on
heman.org concerning the new toyline and proposed new cartoon.
You'll weep. They're GETTING a revival that the line probably doesn't
deserve, and they won't stop complaining because it isn't 1982 all over
again down to the tiniest detail.
> A lot of people take a successful, living toyline for granted. I try not
to.
Has anyone stopped to consider how LUCKY this fandom has been? That things
are SO GOOD for us that the fandom has actually gotten SPOILED?!
M "Between 'Why Won't Hasbro Tell Us Everything They're Doing' And 'We're
ONLY Getting A Large Movie-Accurate Statue Of Unicron?! RIPOFF!'..." Sipher
Trent Troop
> Trent Troop wrote:
>
> >No one with a lick of sense has any reason to expect a fully
> >transformable physical representation of any of the 'toon designs.
>
> Funny, I seem to remember Hasbro coming out with about ten of them back in
> 1986.
You sir, have quite a bit of imagination if you think the movie gang's show
designs are "toy accurate". They come closer than some, perhaps, but the
show models were rounder, had vast variances in proportion, color
differences, and in the case of Kup, they had a complete head instead of
half of one. I'd be mightily impressed if you could summon from the eather
the means to make a show-accurate G1 jazz that turned into that porche. Now
something similar, but altered up, yeah, I'm sure we could do that. But the
doors have to go someplace. The idea of cartoon-accurate reverse-engineered
figures to harken back to the 80s is just a fallicy in my eyes. You wanna
keep colorschemes, altmodes and heads roughly the same, that may be doable,
but there are certain bits of wizardry that are simply too much to ask for.
> (Admittedly, some were closer to the cartoon models that others. I've
> discovered that stripping down those horrible stickers and giving 'em a
new
> coat of paint can do wonders for them, though. It's certainly not a
design or
> engineering issue.)
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you. Even the BFTS tank drone, which
did wonders for imitating a largly impossible transformation scheme, had
those Zaku-style shields on its arms.
> Zobovor... I'd love it if Takara's prototypes for Arcee and Unicron ended
up
> being produced. Sure, it's a silly fanboyish dream, and doesn't
particularly
> mesh with reality, but that's sort of the definition of a dream, isn't it?
The arcee Prototype? You must be thinking of the JBotcon fan-created
kitbash, because all the Arcee protos I've seen are Fugly to end all Fugly.
As for NeoCron, well, He's certainly not the Romita design. He's quite a bit
better. Too bad he could never stand up, what with half a planet hanging off
his ass.
-Trent
te...@tfmultiverse.com
trent...@home.com says...
> Yes, they are. No one with a lick of sense has any reason to expect a fully
> transformable physical representation of any of the 'toon designs. Romita
> made some nice humanoid robot designs, a pity a little thing like PHYSICS
> would stand it the way of their converstion into actual transforming toys. I
> encourage everyone to go slumming in another fandom. Poke around with the
> fans of Inhumanoids or Thundercats. Take a look at what we might have been.
> A lot of people take a successful, living toyline for granted. I try not to.
You're just not a passive-aggressive, poorly informed pogue whose
Mom didn't hug him enough as a child, Trent. Isn't it about time you
got with the program, and started bemoaning your fate as a Transformers
fan? I think BotCon 2002 should hold a workshop on bemoaning. Right
after those corrected BC01 dinner posters (which I happen to think are a
fucking ridiculous business decision) are handed out for free.
There are so many people who need to be hit several times in the
head with a snow shovel. But what does that give us, other than even
whinier people and a bunch of broken snow shovels? It's like I always
say: invest in cattle futures.
Tengu:<>
The Waspinator
> ... Then again, I did fork over $200+ (once you factor in shipping) for a
> three-foot-tall hollow-vinyl MegaMan statue from Singapore last year
> (official item, really. Has the Capcom brand mark and everything. I think it
Oh, hell. An expensive hollow vinyl statue. You just reminded me of
the fact that I own a damn Metalforce Convoy. Piece of crap that it
is. And I paid... never mind. And I got it cheap. Compared to
that, this Unicron statue is a damn good deal. It has no articulation
(not that Metalforce has a whole lot), but it'll presumably have
weight and detail and it'll be hand-painted. Hand-painted! By little
Chinese girls who work sixteen hours a day for a bowl of rice! Okay,
maybe not that last part.
> It's partly that I'm not totally wild over Unicron on the whole. Though part
> of THAT has more to do with being severely burned out on TFTM thanks to
> TFMST.
I can't hardly sit through the movie any more. And that's just
because I watched it too much on my own. I watched the DVD once after
I got it, and I was squirming the whole time.
> And partly because I can't say I care for the concept art, which indicates
> how the final product will look. It's not a very dynamic pose, and I feel
> that stuff that large, especially of CHARACTERS so unbelieveably HUGE,
> deserves far more detail than a Romita model has. But I understand that to
That's the thing that bugs me most about cartoon-based character
representations. The utter lack of detail. Yes, it's
cartoon-accurate, but it's boring.
> And since they're obviously so hateful to the fandom, maybe they should just
> stop having BotCons altogether. I know I'd be questioning why I bothered if
> I were them.
I'd like to think that, on the whole, the fandom is kind to 3H and
Hasbro and whoever. I'd like to think that there are only a very few
inconsiderate, vocal assholes in the fandom. But the longer I'm
around, the more I think that the fandom is full of vocal,
inconsiderate assholes, and the kind, grateful people are in the
minority. And morons. Awful lot of morons around here.
ADY, currently undecided on buying the statue, but damn grateful for
the opportunity.
Jackpot
>
> One day they're saying that they will never offer a BotCon toy
> that represents a character owned by Hasbro, and the next, we get Arcee and
> Tigatron. Today they're saying that a transforming Unicron toy will never,
> ever happen. Who knows what tomorrow might bring?
>
> If it were me, I'd probably have used the phrase "no plans at this time"
> instead of "well, then you'll be waiting forever," but hey, that's me.
Good points.
> >I doubt its any sort of diabolical statue-selling plan.
>
> How you got "diabolical" out of "nothing at all wrong with that, of course" is
> beyond me.
However you judge the issue personally, I know _I_ think it sounds like
a shady thing to do. Trent seems to agree. "Diabolical" was his
(exaggerated) take on that particular business model.
> >People are, in essence, getting angry that they have the option to
> >chose wether or not to purchase statue.
>
> I doubt that. My impression is that people thought that the "Unicron is
> coming" ad hinted at the possibility of a transforming Unicron toy, and are
> disappointed that it's only a statue.
Well, of course they don't SEE it the way Trent put it, but it's still
true. Zob, you're right in that you've pinpointed a possible mindset of
a complainer. But Trent's right in that he realizes that that mindset
is an invalid one, since the option for a toy only existed in the mind
of the complainer.
- Jackpot (A wrapped Christmas present hints at the possibility of
a solid gold, life-size Destro helmet, but the fact that it's a sweater
doesn't mean my disappointment has any basis in fact.)
--
| To contact me, please e-mail aquamandible [at] yahoo [dot] com.
|
| _ _ ______ http://spektakle.com ______ _ _
"The `k's are for the kwality!"
Trent Troop
<te...@tfmultiverse.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.167559fbb...@news.optonline.net...
> In article <6rHO7.192582$IR4.72...@news1.denver1.co.home.com>,
> trent...@home.com says...
> > Yes, they are. No one with a lick of sense has any reason to expect a
fully
> > transformable physical representation of any of the 'toon designs.
Romita
> > made some nice humanoid robot designs, a pity a little thing like
PHYSICS
> > would stand it the way of their converstion into actual transforming
toys. I
> > encourage everyone to go slumming in another fandom. Poke around with
the
> > fans of Inhumanoids or Thundercats. Take a look at what we might have
been.
> > A lot of people take a successful, living toyline for granted. I try not
to.
>
> You're just not a passive-aggressive, poorly informed pogue whose
> Mom didn't hug him enough as a child, Trent. Isn't it about time you
> got with the program, and started bemoaning your fate as a Transformers
> fan? I think BotCon 2002 should hold a workshop on bemoaning. Right
> after those corrected BC01 dinner posters (which I happen to think are a
> fucking ridiculous business decision) are handed out for free.
Its amazing how people let their hobby, which is supposed to be a source of
joy in the humdrum mire that is life, become yet another tar-like substance,
ever dragging them downward. Me and my robots, we have other plans for the
world... BWAHAHAHAHA...
Like I always say, why be passive-aggressive, when you can be
megalomaniacally aggressive?
> There are so many people who need to be hit several times in the
> head with a snow shovel. But what does that give us, other than even
> whinier people and a bunch of broken snow shovels? It's like I always
> say: invest in cattle futures.
I still like my statements about the ignorance and the cat-o-nine-tails.
Just don't buy one of those cheap dollar-store cat-o-nine-tails... you'll
have a cat-o-three-tails by the end of the week.
-Trent
Trent Troop
The Waspinator <ady...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:1ce4d00.01120...@posting.google.com...
> "M Sipher" <msi...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:<9ufa59$aeu$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...
>
> Hasbro and whoever. I'd like to think that there are only a very few
> inconsiderate, vocal assholes in the fandom. But the longer I'm
> around, the more I think that the fandom is full of vocal,
> inconsiderate assholes, and the kind, grateful people are in the
> minority. And morons. Awful lot of morons around here.
At this point, maybe the acceptable range should be expanded from "Kind" to
"those who are kind, and those who are cruel, but are greatful for what they
get and save their cruelty for those who actually wronged them, like the
wait staff at Applebees."
-Trent
Walkerton
to
> "those who are kind, and those who are cruel, but are greatful for what
they
> get and save their cruelty for those who actually wronged them, like the
> wait staff at Applebees."
<Walky> I ordered no cheese on my burger.
<Applebees waitress> I'm sorry...
<Walky> I hope you burn in Hell!
--David
www.itswalky.com
Hooper X
>THAT is a
>huge, fully transformable, physical representation of Unicron that looks
>exactly like the character from the movie."
...
How in the hell would you engineer a fully-transformable, movie-accurate
Unicron? I just don't see it happening. Unless the "Transformation" is
"scrunch robot into a cube, shove into shell/planet surface."
Unicron's transformation would be virtually impossible to pull off
(sphere-robot with humanoid proportions) without either massive amounts of
kibble, or an outright Pretender-shell of a planet.
_HX
"I must kill you, because God told me to." -Tigatron(?)
"Vooral die smeerlap van een Hooper X !! QWe hate yopu !!!!!!!!" -Drunken
Dutchmen
www.sexsexworld.com <-PLEASE KILL MY LONELY.
To contact me, take off that stupid looking hat you wear.
Hooper X
>There are so many people who need to be hit several times in the
>head with a snow shovel.
OOOH! OOOH! TENGU! CAN I HOST THE "BASH PEOPLE WITH A SNOW SHOVEL" PANEL AT
BOTCON?! PLEASE?!
-HX, that being out of the question, howzabout a panel on Things NOT To Do At
BotCon? (#1. Wear a cape. #2. Threaten voice actors with Megatron.)
Hooper X
>Hooper made an argument against yours?
>I thought he just called you a cumgargle, in addition to some other insults
>and
>mockery.
Well, yeah. That's a valid arguement, as far as I'm concerned. I mean, the
man obviously does gargle cum.
-HX