I'm going to leave too..... =(
Jen One
so kewl that I found somewhere that people would not tease me or call me
childish just for liking Transformers. But just like IRL there are so many mean
people here too. There are a few nice people here, but not many, and the person
who was nicest to me, my favorite person here, is already gone! =(
Now every body is talking about whether I am real or fake. There is no real way
I can prove myself, why would I want to do that anyway. Anything I say could be
a lie, there is no way to prove who I am. Even my web site pictures could be
fake. My friends in chat say that people are different on-line than they are
IRL, this is because you have alot more time to think about what you want to
say, or you can look things up so you can act smarter than you really are. So I
guess I am a liar sometimes. I do not mean to be such a problem. This always
happens to me I guess, I try not to start fights but they always find me. =(
Well I do still like Transformers, I really like having a place to talk about
them. I guess I will still look for more videos, that is very enjoyable for me,
but I won't have anyone to talk to about them. That is alright, I have done
that before. I am really truly sorry for all the mess I caused, I guess you
guys won't have to worry, things will go back to normal now. Please forgive me,
I am so sorry.........
Please don't hurt me...
How do I learn
To give love and be loved in return?
I'm controlled by my fear
And all the voices in my head that I can hear...
~ Robbie Williams - Love Calling Earth ~
ShadowWing
Jen One wrote
>I am really truly sorry for all the mess I caused, I guess you
>guys won't have to worry, things will go back to normal now. Please
>forgive me, I am so sorry.........
You've got nothing to be sorry for. Folks here have been scammed in the
past and the ATT jerk level tends to flucuate, and you caught us at a bad
time. (Which is sad, since it coordinates with a new toy line.) I really
didn't have time to gain a full opinion of you, but I never saw a reason to
see you as anything other than a genuine newcomer wanting to get
information.
I don't know if you're still around, so I don't know if your reading
this. (I assumed Rik left already, but I may drop him an e-mail.) It's too
bad when long time members disappear. Frankly, I'm becoming more and more
disappointed with the actions of some members on here, It's really not as
fun as when I started reading this group, and I've only been reading for the
toy release news and reviews, plus the tv info. Maybe when we get the series
we can have some decent discussio...scratch that! We're going to have people
having a $#!+fest because it's "kiddie", or not G1/BW, or whatever else they
can come up with.
It is quite simple folks. You are NOT going to get G1 anymore. You are
NOT going to see Beast Wars anymore. They're over! Finished! Kaput! Unless
you have a VCR, all you will get is Robots in Disguise. That is the current
toyline. If it's not what you want, then there's nothing you can do about
it. Stop taking it out on the newbies, stop b!+[h!ng about it to US or
Hasbro, and just wait patently for the next series, so you can have
something to complain about.
Frankly, if I had somewhere else to go, I may not be here much longer
myself. I don't like message boards because it takes 5 hours to download all
those sig images. Moderated groups don't get updated at the pace ATT does.
But at least since Beast Machines, somebody sucked the fun out of
alt.toys.transformers and ran off. End the hate. Stop the flames. If you
can't say anything nice about someone, JUST SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!! I get enough
jerks at work.
And don't be an @$$ and tell me the only reason I'm complaining here is
because it's a girl. I've never met her, and probably never will. You need
to be into more than Transformers to get my attention. All the "founders",
or those who practically are, seem to be leaving, and now something that
we've joked about--newcomers who are scared off--is coming to pass. But I
know far too many of you don't care in the least. Many do, but apparently
not enough.
______________________________________________
| HEROIC AUTOBOT ^ ^ {ShadowWing} |
| AMONG MAXIMALS |()| { transfan} |
| [CYBERTRON] \/ Ż||Ż||Ż||ŻŻ |
|ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Ż Ż ŻŻŻŻŻŻ|
|Function: /\ /\ str: 7.0|
|Guardian / \ ()/ \ int: 8.5|
|Motto:"One's true / /\ o[]o/\ \ spd: 9.0|
|form lies within." / ——o—[]—o—— \ end: 7.0|
|Survivor of every / / / 00 \ \ \rnk: 6.0|
|Transformer war. 00 cor:10.0|
|More information on line ^^ fire:5.4|
|Visit THE TRANSFORMATION ZONE skl: 9.2|
|http://pages.cthome.net/ShadowWing |
|last updated on 4/1/2001 AD |
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Dan Perlberger
real or fake?
Dan
"Jen One" <tfje...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010806202017...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
Stranger
common decency not to pick fights or make fun of people that they don't
like? If you think someone's an idiot, you can't ingore them? When the
group's driving away Old-timers and newbies, that's the sympton of a dieing
beast, folks.
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
Synwraith
"> Please don't hurt me...
Try ignoring those who have attempted it.
> How do I learn
Certainly not by giving up easily.
> To give love and be loved in return?
I'm not sure love has a place here.
> I'm controlled by my fear
Well.....er.....don't be.
> And all the voices in my head that I can hear...
Shut them out. Reading posts is far different to replying to posts. At the
very least listen to what others say about TRANSFORMERS and not each other.
> ~ Robbie Williams - Love Calling Earth ~
I detest Robbie williams but why should you care what i detest =)
Are you beggining to see my point?
Hypertron
Well, its started. The ragarok of ATT. All the real posters are leaving. I was
just gone about a mounth because I was in th rain forest and there are no
computers there. I hope all you bastards are happy. You are killing ATT. ATT is
more that a NG about tfs, it is a group of smart people who like transformers.
If you drive all the good people away, ATT is nothing more than a pile of shit.
I will not leave. I shall not be driven away. I say, lets save our little NG,
dont run away, STAY STAY STAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Hypertron( a sort of, kind of, almost god)
noname
really cares who stays & who goes
noname
quite funny
Aaron F. Bourque
>Joy another I'm going to leave post. Then leave its not as if anyone
>really cares who stays & who goes
In three or four years, when there's only idiots like you left, everyone will
care.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
"If you don't know concentration, which gives you peculiar pleasure, your life
looks like hell."--Hiroyuki Nishigaki
noname
On 07 Aug 2001 03:28:45 GMT, aaronb...@aol.comstat (Aaron F.
CheetorII
posters in the past and most have wondered if you were another. I must admit
I was one of those people and for that I am sorry. I think it's very cool
that you are a Transfan. I'm gonna be 30 in a month and I still "play" with
Transformers. I currently have 212 in my collection. I just bought the New
Ultra Magnus yesterday. Awesome toy (I digress). Again Please stay and give
the NG another chance.
--
Steve H (CheetorII)
http://www.angelfire.com/my/transformers
"Jen One" <tfje...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010806202017...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
Victor
I hate logging on and off aol as a different user so I can think up something
a newbie would say. This 'tfjenone' was just a self-experimental theory to see
if ATT was really all that disgruntled. Sorry for playing a crude joke on the
fans to see if they could handle a REAL newbie.
=========================================================
Visit: http://www.geocities.com/chrioboy/
Its got lots of pretty pictures :]
=========================================================
Duo Maxwell
"Victor" <chri...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010807002802...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
> What I'm trying to say is.....
> I hate logging on and off aol as a different user so I can think up
something
> a newbie would say. This 'tfjenone' was just a self-experimental theory to
see
> if ATT was really all that disgruntled. Sorry for playing a crude joke on
the
> fans to see if they could handle a REAL newbie.
Why don't I believe you?
Duo Maxwell
was
> so kewl that I found somewhere that people would not tease me or call me
> childish just for liking Transformers. But just like IRL there are so many
mean
> people here too. There are a few nice people here, but not many, and the
person
> who was nicest to me, my favorite person here, is already gone! =(
I cant blame you one bit.
Im getting close to leaving ATT myself.
> Now every body is talking about whether I am real or fake. There is no
real way
> I can prove myself, why would I want to do that anyway. Anything I say
could be
> a lie, there is no way to prove who I am. Even my web site pictures could
be
> fake. My friends in chat say that people are different on-line than they
are
> IRL, this is because you have alot more time to think about what you want
to
> say, or you can look things up so you can act smarter than you really are.
So I
> guess I am a liar sometimes. I do not mean to be such a problem. This
always
> happens to me I guess, I try not to start fights but they always find me.
=(
>
Welcome to ATT.
When I first hit this NG, it took me less than a month to be killfiled
publically by
2 people, when I had gone 3 years of posting to other NGs without more than
the
occasional shouting match that ended quickly, and we moved on.
> Well I do still like Transformers, I really like having a place to talk
about
> them. I guess I will still look for more videos, that is very enjoyable
for me,
> but I won't have anyone to talk to about them. That is alright, I have
done
> that before. I am really truly sorry for all the mess I caused, I guess
you
> guys won't have to worry, things will go back to normal now. Please
forgive me,
> I am so sorry.........
And ATT continues its slow slide to shitsville.
By the way, I seriously doubt this Victor fellow is the same person as you.
Victor
>Why don't I believe you?
Because I'm a bastard. :[
Hooper X
> This 'tfjenone' was just a self-experimental theory to see
>if ATT was really all that disgruntled.
Huh. So it was you all along? Can you PLEASE try and at least keep that high
a grammatical standard in your real posts?
-HX, knew it all along.
"I must kill you, because God told me to." -Tigatron(?)
"Vooral die smeerlap van een Hooper X !! QWe hate yopu !!!!!!!!!" -Drunken
Dutchmen
www.sexsexworld.com <-PLEASE KILL MY LONELY.
To contact me, take off that stupid looking hat you wear.
noname
noname
Claps
Zobo Jojo
>Well I am sorry but I simply do not want to be here any more.
Okay, this actually does piss me off. Not so much because Jen's jumping ship
(though that's certainly upsetting too), but because of the conditions that
caused her to make this decision in the first place. What the hell has
happened to this newsgroup, anyway?
Jen and Rik aren't the only ones who have left, incidentally. Vice Grip didn't
make a big fuss about it, but he's fed up too. He told me his extended
departure will likely be permanent. So, add his name to the growing tally.
How many more people are going to be chased away?
I can't even get in touch with Jen via e-mail now. What, did you guys start
harassing her privately, too? Wasn't it enough that you demonstrated to her
that she was completely unwelcome in the fandom?
Christ, I am just so thoroughly disgusted.
>Well I do still like Transformers, I really like having a place to talk about
>them. I guess I will still look for more videos, that is very enjoyable for
>me, but I won't have anyone to talk to about them. That is alright, I have
>done that before.
So have I. And somehow, that's sounding like a pretty damned good prospect
right about now.
Black Zarak
Rik brought it up in his farewell post. Frankly, I think it's stupid and
preposterous to even question it. Regardless of what people may think about who
you are, you're someone who actually contributes positively to the newsgroup and
generally has good things to say or talk about. That's what counts. The dumb
fucks out there who spend their time questioning your identity need to get LIVES
and take things at face value. Why must people always assume that alterior motives
always exist? I swear, too many ATTers spend too much time over-analyzing everyone
and everything, be it Transformers or other ATTers. Is it so important? Really,
is it? That is a question that all of us should ask each time we log onto the
newsgroup.
It's unfortunate that you are leaving after only a short stay, but frankly I
cannot blame you. I would have done the same if I were in your shoes.
--
Black Zarak
za...@csolve.net
Black Zarak
Victor wrote:
> >Duo Maxwell wrote:
> >Why don't I believe you?
>
> Because I'm a bastard. :[
Yes, you are a bastard. I'm not sure if you are telling the truth, or are
just joking. But either way, you are a bastard.
BTW, the comments made in my earlier post in this thread still stand.
--
Black Zarak
za...@csolve.net
Sky Shadow
> I guess I will still look for more videos, that is very enjoyable for me,
but I won't have anyone to talk to
> about them. That is alright, I have done that before.
If you're still reading this, and you want to continue talking about
Transformers, there are many other newsgroups and chatrooms in which you can
do so, and I'm sure many of the people here can inform you of the location
of such things. alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated is one such place,
where you will not be subjected to abuse and which deals with your favourite
aspect of Transformers, Generation One. If you wanted, you could even post
messages there with a different name, and no-one would know it was you.
> I am really truly sorry for all the mess I caused, I guess you
> guys won't have to worry, things will go back to normal now. Please
forgive me,
> I am so sorry.........
That's really touching, but you truly have nothing to apologise for.
Sky Shadow.
--
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Cybertron to be born?
Duo Maxwell
> I can't even get in touch with Jen via e-mail now. What, did you guys
start
> harassing her privately, too? Wasn't it enough that you demonstrated to
her
> that she was completely unwelcome in the fandom?
Which may or may not be due to some moron cleverly trolling.
> Christ, I am just so thoroughly disgusted.
>
> >Well I do still like Transformers, I really like having a place to talk
about
> >them. I guess I will still look for more videos, that is very enjoyable
for
> >me, but I won't have anyone to talk to about them. That is alright, I
have
> >done that before.
>
> So have I. And somehow, that's sounding like a pretty damned good
prospect
> right about now.
Cant say I am in love with this NG these days myself
After that visit to WiiGii!, I kinda lost alot of enthusiasm for
Transformers,
Transformers fandom in particular.
And people wonder why I don't join online gaming clans, or spend much time
in
online gaming and the like..
LegendaryNemasis
> You've got nothing to be sorry for. Folks here have been scammed in the
>past and the ATT jerk level tends to flucuate, and you caught us at a bad
>time. (Which is sad, since it coordinates with a new toy line.) I really
>didn't have time to gain a full opinion of you, but I never saw a reason to
>see you as anything other than a genuine newcomer wanting to get
>information.
>
> I don't know if you're still around, so I don't know if your reading
>this.
<Sniped the really good response>
I agree with you whole heartidly(did I spell that right?), many people on ATT
have become asses over the years it seems. I mean seriously we have flame wars
over someones spelling or grammar? Come on grow up. ATT used to be extremely
fun for me when I read it. I first cam here looking for other Transfans once I
saw Beast Wars for the first time in the stores(before the show came out mind
you) when I did, noone went and tried to kill me for bringing it up. People
just commented on it. But now all everyone is obssessed with is getting what
they want or what they once had. G1 is gone, get over it, and to quote BW
Megatron "The Beast Wars are over..." we aren't getting that back either, and
look Beast Machines the show damned by so many is over, so look, you did in the
end get what you want, one time for the show, so be happy. And then once
transtech news was heard people once again cried witch even before anything was
really known about it! It got canned as well. So there goes your possible great
show and toys and alot of people like the transtech designs when they finally
saw them. Then a new ATTer came along looking for info(Jenone) and what does
she get for trying to be nice? Flamed, Flamed, flamed, and flamed some more.
Sure there was those of us who did defend her, and even one of those got
flammed for their spelling and grammar, so is that what this group has been
reduced to? A bunch of arrogant A-holes who dont like knew people or those that
defend them? I think its time that those who havent already to grow up and
mature. Ah well, I guess sooner or later we'll end up like star trek fans who
have sub groups for their fandoms, "Trekkers" and "Trekkies" each bashing the
other. And since we have many more TF fandoms Im thinking the TF fan bashing
will be worse.
~Qs7-Who really hates how things are currently in ATT.
Someone: "Look a new series which we know little about!"
Many others in the newsgroup: "Burn it! It may be another Beast Machines! ITs
not G1 or BW, KILL KILL KILL!!!"(I know an over exagerration but look what
happened with Transtech.)
LegendaryNemasis
know, the old AOL chat for TFs that seems to have died. I was actually thinking
of trying to get old AOL TF members and such to return there.. hey does anyone
here remember Microzone? He was really cool and I havent seen him post on ATT
in ages...
Brian Kilby
> I hate logging on and off aol as a different user so I can think up
something
> a newbie would say. This 'tfjenone' was just a self-experimental theory to
see
> if ATT was really all that disgruntled. Sorry for playing a crude joke on
the
> fans to see if they could handle a REAL newbie.
Are you serious? :)
I know I saw you mention it earlier, but I didn't believe it. Are you
_really_ Jen One?
Steve-o Stonebraker
> Okay, this actually does piss me off. Not so much because Jen's jumping ship
> (though that's certainly upsetting too), but because of the conditions that
> caused her to make this decision in the first place. What the hell has
> happened to this newsgroup, anyway?
> Christ, I am just so thoroughly disgusted.
Yeah, well, just for the heck of it I'll chime in, too.
First, who gives a flying fig whether *anybody* on this newsgroup is real
or a persona? If posts come on a regular basis from some identity, and
they are not trolls, then who cares?
Second, Jen One's posts were mostly enthusiastic and often interesting,
which is more than I can say for a lot of people here. They were also
sometimes annoying. In this way, she was like the vast majority of
ATTers. In other words, real or fake, Jen was at worst an average
contributor for a newbie, and with her ability to write and
generally-cheerful tone, I'd be inclined to set her above average.
Third, if you suspect that somebody is "fake", there is no reason to do
anything about it unless they are using that fake identity to do harm.
Additionally, simply suspecting that somebody might be fake is not nearly
enough reason to start making public posts that say "Boy, I can't figure
out if they're fake or not!" If they are not, and they read those posts,
they very well may be hurt. You might think that you would simply shrug
it off and not care, and that may even be true, but that does not mean
others are not allowed to feel hurt, or that feeling hurt is somehow an
"incorrect" reaction to having your authenticity doubted.
I do not care whether Jen was a real person or not. I liked reading the
posts that came from that screen name for the reasons I have stated above.
I am disappointed that those posts won't continue, regardless of the
reason. It may be because somebody's game is no longer fun to them, or it
may be because a genuine fan could only absorb so much cruelty. Either
way, I have one message for the people that gave Jen One a hard time:
FUCK YOU.
A constructed persona has no feelings, but a real person does. This whole
incident is a beautiful illustration of what royal assholes people here
can be. There is no reason to think that future newbies won't get a
similar treatment, and I'm sorry to break this to you all but at least
*some* of those newbies will in fact be real people. Naivete is not a
crime, and there is no reasonable excuse for the behavior I've seen here
over the last few weeks. Flaming innocent newbies is not acceptable, and
I will no longer stand by silently when I see it. There is simply far too
much picking on other fans going on. Please just get a life and direct
your energies at something worthwhile that doesn't hurt feelings.
--Steve-o
Hydra & Buster's Masterforce/Victory subtitling project needs donations!
*** http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/hantaakiraa/pt/fansub.html ***
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve R Stonebraker | Transformers FAQ Keeper | Astrophysicist
srst...@yahoo.com | http://astro.bu.edu/~srstoneb/ | AOL IM: srstoneb
noname
fake/trollish
On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 01:54:36 -0400, Black Zarak <za...@csolve.net>
wrote:
noname
On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:03:02 -0400, Black Zarak <za...@csolve.net>
wrote:
>
>
Stranger
been on my mind and has been teh biggest craw in my throat about this whole
situation. I just wasn't able to articulate the point, but you did a great
job.
Does it hurt anyone to keep their mouth shut?
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
Steve-o Stonebraker <srst...@bu-ast.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn9n07u8....@bu-ast.bu.edu...
Morg
"noname" <fda...@jklfda.com> wrote
> I duno that "tf dream " she had made me wonder. It was to
> fake/trollish
I don't see how. Everybody and their uncle posts TF dreams once in a
while, but because those posters are a little bit more established,
no-one doubts them. I took the piss out her dream, but that's just me,
if someone had told me that dream IRL, I would've said the same thing.
Since when has the rule of ATT been "people aren't real until they've
proved themself"?
Morg
--
TFs and parts for sale at -
www.skywarp.co.uk
My TF website -
http://www.obliviongroup.co.uk/transformers.htm
MadMaxMFP
> Cant say I am in love with this NG these days myself
> After that visit to WiiGii!, I kinda lost alot of enthusiasm for
> Transformers,
> Transformers fandom in particular.
>
Thanks a lot, Duo. You really made my day. If you come back again, and
get made fun of, will you enjoy your enthusiasm for life, too?
-Max
Hey, I'm sorry, I gave him two weeks to stop mentioning #WiiGii! in a
bad way every single post.
Robert Powers
Behold! On 7 Aug 2001 17:05:14 GMT, Steve-o Stonebraker
<srst...@bu-ast.bu.edu> did speak:
>First, who gives a flying fig whether *anybody* on this newsgroup is real
>or a persona? If posts come on a regular basis from some identity, and
>they are not trolls, then who cares?
Actually, there is a huge difference.
Lots of people post on Usenet using ficticious screan names. There's
nothing wrong with that per se. If Joe Schmoe wants to be known soley as
Thunderwing99, more power to 'em.
But a *manufactured* persona is something different. It's not just the
person being annonymous -- it's someone intentionally trying to provoke a
certain reaction from the newsgroup's readers. When I made the call I
did, I was about 50% convinced that's what Jen One was -- someone
attempting to yank everyone's chain in a sort of repeat of the whole Blue
Jackal mess a year or three back.
Fact is, we HAVE had a lot of trolls in the last 6 months or year or
so. The AOL Troll popped up uner at least half a dozen screen names, just
to name one. But more notably, there's been a lot of posts that fit
certain stereotypes *so* perfectly it's almost hard to believe they're for
real. The "BOYCOTT RID!!!" guy, for example. If I were to write a parody
of people whining about Robots in Disguise, it would look almost exactly
like that, in content if not wording. The AOL Troll was clearly out to
rile us all up. Whose's to say the same person, or someone else, wouldn't
resort to outright deception to achieve the same results? Therefore, when
I see a post that strikes me as intended to evoke certain reactions, my
suspicion automatically flairs up.
Maybe I've just been around too long or something. Maybe I've
forgotten about the vastly different perspectives people have on the toy
line and the fandom. Maybe it's because of the way I usually read news,
which means I never see a lot of the.... more ignomious, we'll say, posts
that go through here. Maybe I've forgotten that there *are* reasons that
those stereoptypes exist. But whatever the cause, I find it hard to
believe that there are people who genuinely think the way that BOYCOTT RID
guy thinks, so I tend to dismiss it as a probable fabrication designed to
create lots of flames -- which is probably an incorrect assumption in many
cases.
And given that Jen One's posts *were* starting to generate flamage, I
guess I just kinda threw her into the same boat. Saying so out loud was a
mistake, and I'm sorry for doing so. I should have just kept my mouth
shut, at very least till I had some kind of more concrete evidence one way
or the other.
And I *still* don't know what to think. Even the departure reads like a
well-oiled script. I hate that I'm even thinking this way. One too many
trolls, I 'spose.
>out if they're fake or not!" If they are not, and they read those posts,
>they very well may be hurt. You might think that you would simply shrug
>it off and not care, and that may even be true, but that does not mean
>others are not allowed to feel hurt, or that feeling hurt is somehow an
>"incorrect" reaction to having your authenticity doubted.
The cynical part of me, which I try to keep in check, says that anyone
whose skin is that thin wouldn't last long here regardless.
The rest of me knows that someone's resiliance shouldn't have to
matter, and is not even the point.
>I do not care whether Jen was a real person or not.
I do. I don't like seeing newbies driven away. I don't like being
jerked around. One of the two just happened, and I've no idea which. And
I don't like that, either.
At any rate, in the future I'm sticking to my zero-flames policy, which
has gotten a bit lax lately. I regret my role in this whole affair, and I
apologize to everyone involved for it. I don't intend for it to happen
again.
Besides... there's really nothing to be done about trolls, but newbies
can be encouraged to stay and participate. I wish I'd thought of that two
days ago.
--
Robert Powers
repo...@uwm.edu ________________________________________
| Built St. Louis |
| http://www.BuiltStLouis.net/ |
|________ Tracking the city's endangered architecture _|
MeanATTersSuck
<SNIP>What the hell has
> happened to this newsgroup, anyway?
May I point you to the TYPE I's (see 'By their actions shall you know them'
post of mine) for that answer.
> Jen and Rik aren't the only ones who have left, incidentally. Vice Grip didn't
> make a big fuss about it, but he's fed up too. He told me his extended
> departure will likely be permanent. So, add his name to the growing tally.
> How many more people are going to be chased away?
Probably until all the Type II's are gone I'd say.
> I can't even get in touch with Jen via e-mail now. What, did you guys start
> harassing her privately, too? Wasn't it enough that you demonstrated to her
> that she was completely unwelcome in the fandom?
Again the TYPE I's strike hard, fast, and as nasty as possible? I didn't
follow the posts of Jen's so I don't know what invoked any hard feelings.
Anyone like to point me to them I'd like to read just how nasty TYPE I's
were to her. Thanks.
> Christ, I am just so thoroughly disgusted.
It was Christ that said "By their actions shall ye know them" just FYI.
Duo Maxwell
> > What I'm trying to say is.....
> > I hate logging on and off aol as a different user so I can think up
> something
> > a newbie would say. This 'tfjenone' was just a self-experimental theory
to
> see
> > if ATT was really all that disgruntled. Sorry for playing a crude joke
on
> the
> > fans to see if they could handle a REAL newbie.
>
> Are you serious? :)
>
> I know I saw you mention it earlier, but I didn't believe it. Are you
> _really_ Jen One?
>
Like one dude said.
Have him post as Jen One and say who he is under that email/name header.
noname
than others. Hers is in the more so part (nothing to do with the fact
that shes a she though)
On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:47:24 +0100, "Morg" <morgan...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
noname
Gabi T.M. D'Galvatron
and invite you over to the sister / brother / long lost cusin of ATT
-- a newsgroup called alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated .
Use the following instructions to get there , and remember that if you
want to post by the access way described below , you'll have to
"register" with "Google" , though that shoud be simple enough .
1) Go to :
http://groups.google.com/googlegroups/deja_announcement.html
2) type: "attcm" (but without the "" marks) in the little window
inside the page (under the title "search groups") , and click on the
"google search" button .
3) from "related groops , click on :
alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated
.... and there you are .
Now since this is a "moderated" groop , it means that all the
insulting , off topic , post are taken out by the moderation team .
Unfortunetly , the moderation process is a little slow , thus any
massage posted may take over one day to appear , sometimes even longer
than that .
Still , if you wanna talk about the old show , you may like it there
.
Take cear .
-Gabi.
kweazey
wrote:
> May I point you to the TYPE I's (see 'By their actions shall you know them'
> post of mine) for that answer.
Bah. "Type 1" is a fan-created term with no basis in TF canon. They
are actually called "Skyraiders". No, wait...
> Again the TYPE I's strike hard, fast, and as nasty as possible? I didn't
> follow the posts of Jen's so I don't know what invoked any hard feelings.
> Anyone like to point me to them I'd like to read just how nasty TYPE I's
> were to her. Thanks.
Seriously...you're trying too hard. I don't know how net slang gets
started, but I think one person coming up with terms like "Type 1" and
"Type 2" isn't how it gets done. If we ARE going to classify all
ATTers into two categories (which seems oversimplified to me) it'd be
something that makes a bit more sense to everybody.
--kweazey, Type 7
M Sipher
news:idr0nto7u97g3o01j...@4ax.com...
And if we're going to classify posters into distinct separate groups, why
don't we just all never speak to each other ever again? Because labelling
groups and segregating the fandom is a bigger death-blow than any troll or
cancelled toyline/show. Even worse because it is ENTIRELY SELF-INFLICTED.
> --kweazey, Type 7
So, is this honky going to Heaven? And if you do go to Hell, do you hope you
burn well?
M "Let This Motherfucker BURN. Please." Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions - home of the productions of King Weasel!
Transformers, RockMan, original art, the solutions to all life's problems
and other crap!
http://members.fortunecity.com/msipher
Home of That Big Transformers Variations List and MegaMan/RockMan Toy &
Merchandise Archive!
Argus , Deicide NOW!
www.devvi.com for more info.
Plenty of refugees from ATT there, including guy from the days when Raksha was just
discovering her love for Cons ;)
Argus ........not in love with Megatron, but 100% Con since 84.
Synwraith
No wonder you don't like JRX ;)
Ragebot
> Jen One wrote
> >I am really truly sorry for all the mess I caused, I guess you
> >guys won't have to worry, things will go back to normal now. Please
> >forgive me, I am so sorry.........
>
Even Bob Forward.
Ragebot
Picard42
>
> >Well I am sorry but I simply do not want to be here any more.
>
> just gone about a mounth because I was in th rain forest and there are no
> computers there. I hope all you bastards are happy. You are killing ATT. ATT is
> more that a NG about tfs, it is a group of smart people who like transformers.
> If you drive all the good people away, ATT is nothing more than a pile of shit.
> I will not leave. I shall not be driven away. I say, lets save our little NG,
> dont run away, STAY STAY STAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> -Hypertron( a sort of, kind of, almost god)
Need I remind everyone that this is the woman who said that cops use toy
guns as an excuse to murder children?
I'm not saying that Jen One is a terrible person or even an undeniably
bad one, but the constant praise and feeling of "Jen One can do no
wrong" has grown quite tiresome. If you disagree with the way she was
treated, fine, but let's keep some perspective here.
--- Picard42, who has little tolerance for bullshit like that cop
thread...
www.fandome.com/tfww
ShadowWing
Zobo Jojo wrote
>
>Jen and Rik aren't the only ones who have left, incidentally. Vice Grip
>didn't make a big fuss about it, but he's fed up too. He told me his
>extended departure will likely be permanent. So, add his name to the
>growing tally. How many more people are going to be chased away?
Nightwind and (as someone mentioned recently) DPrime also disappeared
from ATT without notice. I also haven't seen Starseeker or Outsyyder, which
means Nighty took her whole entourage. And my hugs. :(
>I can't even get in touch with Jen via e-mail now. What, did you guys
>start harassing her privately, too? Wasn't it enough that you
>demonstrated to her that she was completely unwelcome in the fandom?
I wouldn't be suprised.
>Christ, I am just so thoroughly disgusted.
Frankly, there's quite a list of people that I'm disappointed in. I
won't name names, except MadMax, who goes out of his way to be nasty to
everyone, but I don't think Jen_One was ready for that.
>So have I. And somehow, that's sounding like a pretty damned good
>prospect right about now.
Remember sometime ago when Brian was considering starting a new forum
for the posters who were getting annoyed with ATT? That's starting to look
good. Maybe we can go back to good, clean fun. It seems discussing
Transformers--and discussion in general--is going by the wayside. I wasn't
here for the infamous "hell flame wars", but it seems that some of the folks
here now are doing what the HFW failed to do--eliminate
alt.toys.transformers.
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Iron Wookiee
>for the posters who were getting annoyed with ATT? That's starting to look
>good. Maybe we can go back to good, clean fun. It seems discussing
>Transformers--and discussion in general--is going by the wayside. I wasn't
>here for the infamous "hell flame wars", but it seems that some of the folks
>here now are doing what the HFW failed to do--eliminate
>alt.toys.transformers.
Zob, I hate to say it, but you could be right...
Way back when, I fought scalpers and spread the news on
Rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.misc... After a while, the flames and
waist-deep scalper posts began cluttering the group, so we started a
side-group in alt.fan.mad-rmgroupers just to discuss the things we
love (collecting and Porkins mostly...) without the hassles of
incessant flamers and scalpers who just posted to try and make a
buck...
One day one of those flamers found our side-group and made a huge
bruhaha about the fact that we wanted a group without hostility and
the freedom to talk about things that interested us without staring at
100 posts with "I just found xxx at Wal-Mart... Who wants to buy it
off me?!" in the header...
After a long and fruitless fight, the fans started a forum called the
Mad Room, designed to let fans in and keep out the garbage that
polluted the old RASSCM group. Today, both groups are dead, but from
what I've heard, the forum is still thriving....
The fans ended up winning in the long run, and the trolls that tried
to infest the group were left without a home... Terribly sorry if any
of the old trolls migrated here, BTW...
Argus , Deicide NOW!
> "> Argus ........not in love with Megatron, but 100% Con since 84.
>
> No wonder you don't like JRX ;)
Come along with Morg to DBC 2002 ;)
I'll show you some REAL combiners there. JRX is a neanderthal compared
to teams like God Silvarion.
Argus .. JRX didn't sit in the closet for a few years without good
reason .. major design flaws all around.
Zepherimus
> Frankly, there's quite a list of people that I'm disappointed in. I
>won't name names, except MadMax, who goes out of his way to be nasty to
>everyone, but I don't think Jen_One was ready for that.
Well, not to sound harsh but who is? I remember when I first came to ATT, I
posted for almost half a year before I started becoming part of any thread.
It took that long for me to even be acknowledged. Now, had I popped in,
strutting a female name, and a pair of imaginary tits, I would have had
attention hand over fist.
This should readily speak for ATT as a whole.
Now, how do I feel about her leaving? Not too bad. I never attacked Jen,
nor did I speak to her. Why? I dunno, I just never felt the need. I never
questioned her being real, but I killfiled her, because while most see the
cheerful newbie ignorance as charming, I still find it annoying, and would
rather not see it. I even said as much in the "FAQ ettiquette" thread.
Remember sometime ago when Brian was considering starting a new forum
>for the posters who were getting annoyed with ATT? That's starting to look
>good.
It always did look good, and I've always been for it. Some say we don't
need to split the fandom, but hell, it's already split. What's one more
group going to hurt?
Zepherimus
Who wonders why anyone is still shocked by these "I'm leaving" posts. It's
been done, to death, and then reanimated, and done again.
Aziraphale - Flying with Jetstorm
alt.toys.transformers as "Duo Maxwell" <bloo...@dontspamme.com> said
:
<snip>
>And people wonder why I don't join online gaming clans, or spend much time
>in
>online gaming and the like..
Because most people in online gaming clans are morons (at least,
that's my experience)...
So I play a game like Earth 2025 (http://www.swirve.com/games/earth)
on my own, in the Free-for-all with 15 countries, and spend my time
killing other countries (usually from clans)...
Aziraphale, 9 kills and counting...
>
>
--
|==========================================================|
| |
| |
| |
| |
|==========================================================|
Steve-o Stonebraker
> Remember sometime ago when Brian was considering starting a new forum
> for the posters who were getting annoyed with ATT? That's starting to look
It's called rec.toys.transformers.moderated, people... use it.
Brian Kilby
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:18:18 -0400, ShadowWing wrote:
> > Remember sometime ago when Brian was considering starting a new
forum
> > for the posters who were getting annoyed with ATT? That's starting to
look
>
> It's called rec.toys.transformers.moderated, people... use it.
Yes. That was basically the idea. While there are things that I don't like
about RTTMod (no fanfic for one) there's no real reason to start a NEW
forum.
Steve-o Stonebraker
> Behold! On 7 Aug 2001 17:05:14 GMT, Steve-o Stonebraker wrote:
> >First, who gives a flying fig whether *anybody* on this newsgroup is real
> >or a persona? If posts come on a regular basis from some identity, and
> >they are not trolls, then who cares?
>
> person being annonymous -- it's someone intentionally trying to provoke a
> certain reaction from the newsgroup's readers. When I made the call I
Well, that's what I meant by "trolls". If the purpose of the persona is
to stir up trouble, then I do object. Despite the thick-headed posts in
the Megs Reissue thread, I wasn't convinced that Jen One was trolling. I
think she just wasn't thinking things through. On the other hand, if the
persona is largely innocent, then I have no objections to its presence
here. If it's just an experiment to see what happens to female newbies,
but they don't do anything to intentionally stir trouble, then that's
completely cool with me. If the prankster went as far as to establish
personal relationships with other ATTers under the false pretense of their
perona, I *would* object to that deception. But for a simple matter like
making discussion posts and asking questions, which is pretty much all Jen
One did, it makes no difference at all to me whether they are really who
they say they are or not. Interesting questions and discussion are all I
care about.
> resort to outright deception to achieve the same results? Therefore, when
> I see a post that strikes me as intended to evoke certain reactions, my
> suspicion automatically flairs up.
Yeah, I don't blame you. Seriously, though, Jen's posts didn't seem
especially provocative to me. She had a sort of cute-and-innocent style,
but a lot of people have that in reality, so... And honestly, if people
fall for that behavior, and start fawning over the person with it, I
don't have a lot of sympathy if it turns out they've been duped. Unless,
that is, they've been intentionally led on by the prankster, as stated
above. And Jen One wasn't leading anybody on; she just posted "cute".
Maybe she would have led people on later, but, I guess we'll never know.
> The cynical part of me, which I try to keep in check, says that anyone
> whose skin is that thin wouldn't last long here regardless.
> The rest of me knows that someone's resiliance shouldn't have to
> matter, and is not even the point.
Not everybody here gets specifically targeted the way she was. "Normal"
treatment of an ATTer is a lot more mellow.
> I do. I don't like seeing newbies driven away. I don't like being
> jerked around. One of the two just happened, and I've no idea which. And
> I don't like that, either.
I don't feel like I've been jerked around, even if she was fake. And
that's because I don't care who is attached to a screen name. With the
exception of meeting people at BotCon, *everybody* here is just words
attached to a screen name. The words make the person. And at BotCon,
they're words attached to bodies. But, the body doesn't change the words,
and the words are what make the person. If someone wants to make up a
persona, and that persona is a worthwhile contributor, then I will like
the persona. If they eventually decide to have the persona betray the
reputation it has built up, *that* would make me angry.
Iron Wookiee
>especially provocative to me. She had a sort of cute-and-innocent style,
>but a lot of people have that in reality, so... And honestly, if people
>fall for that behavior, and start fawning over the person with it, I
>don't have a lot of sympathy if it turns out they've been duped. Unless,
>that is, they've been intentionally led on by the prankster, as stated
>above. And Jen One wasn't leading anybody on; she just posted "cute".
>Maybe she would have led people on later, but, I guess we'll never know.
Personally, I take great offense to innocent kids buying and opening
Transformers. As we all know, the Transformer line was created to be
looked at, and not touched. For instance, we have the magnificent G1
Megatron which was a marvel of modern engineering! He turned from a
realistic Walther P-38 handgun into a magnificent robot with a trigger
in his crotch!
Surely, neither of these forms is appropriate for children- Kids would
shoot people with the gun, or play with Megatron's "trigger"...
RiD is an abomination because it is aimed at those who would be most
tempted to buy and open these works of sacred art- CHILDREN!!! And
it's even in CARTOON format instead of sophisticated CGI!!! Good Lord,
what's next? Transformer Underoos? Transformer bed sheets? Transformer
TOOTHBRUSHES?!?!
There is simply no room for children in a realm so sophisticated as
transformers. Magic robots that turn into cars and planes and poisoned
frogs are NOT to be played with.
So nyeeeh.
Douglas W. Dlin
>
>> "> Argus ........not in love with Megatron, but 100% Con since 84.
>>
>> No wonder you don't like JRX ;)
>
> Come along with Morg to DBC 2002 ;)
> I'll show you some REAL combiners there. JRX is a neanderthal compared
> to teams like God Silvarion.
Sorry, Argus, but having both, I've still gotta give a nod or two to
JRX. God Silverion looks really keen and shiny, but you can turn his
feet outward or inward, bend his elbows, raise his arms to the side a
bit...and that's it.
His head's a lot smaller than JRX's, which I suppose is meant to enhance
the classic "giant robot" look, but with Fire Silver added, the
chestplate just overwhelms it, making it look too far back on the shoulders.
As for individual component transformations...J-4's bizarrely huge legs
are a minus, but otherwise all three have got the Silver Knights beat in
terms of complexity and design--all w/o sacrificing the realistic look
of their vehicle modes. They also retail great posability, something
the Silver Knights can't really claim as a group. And Drill Silver the
Tolkien Dwarf has got proportion problems too, so it balances against
J-4. :-)
Not to say I don't like God Silverion, of course. The combination
scheme is nice and the overall "crusading knight" motif is cool. I like
the use of the shields/launchers in all modes, even if Silverion can
only hold the combined shield in a way that makes most of the launchers
aim for his feet. ;-)
Anyway, you're welcome to prefer GS over JRX, but it's not necessarily a
sure thing for everyone.
Doug Dlin
ap...@hotmail.com
Brian Kilby
did not have enough evidence either way to prove anything, so I should've
kept my mouth shut. I did apologize, but that doesn't make up for anything.
However, I'm still skeptical. I still don't know. With that in mind...
Steve-o Stonebraker <srst...@bu-ast.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn9n2p9j....@bu-ast.bu.edu...
> Despite the thick-headed posts in
> the Megs Reissue thread, I wasn't convinced that Jen One was trolling. I
> think she just wasn't thinking things through.
If she was a fake, I believe that would've been the point. Her
misunderstanding of the situation seemed contrived.
> Yeah, I don't blame you. Seriously, though, Jen's posts didn't seem
> especially provocative to me.
Well, when she got onto Zob about not giving her the FAQ, that was pretty
provocative. Really, how many people would be able to handle (or even want)
an FAQ just two weeks after joining the group?
> I don't feel like I've been jerked around, even if she was fake. And
> that's because I don't care who is attached to a screen name. With the
> exception of meeting people at BotCon, *everybody* here is just words
> attached to a screen name. The words make the person. And at BotCon,
> they're words attached to bodies. But, the body doesn't change the words,
> and the words are what make the person. If someone wants to make up a
> persona, and that persona is a worthwhile contributor, then I will like
> the persona. If they eventually decide to have the persona betray the
> reputation it has built up, *that* would make me angry.
...you've just ruined my April Fool's Joke for 2002. :(
Synwraith
me a link to a pic of GS?
Thanks in advance =)
P.S Argus, see ya at NBC 2002 =) I'll definitely see about dragging Morg
and GaoGaiGareth along =)
"Douglas W. Dlin" <ap...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:3B717A44...@texas.net...
MadMaxMFP
>
> Nightwind and (as someone mentioned recently) DPrime also disappeared
> from ATT without notice. I also haven't seen Starseeker or Outsyyder, which
> means Nighty took her whole entourage. And my hugs. :(
>
You just creeped me out more than the photo-realistic Star Trek porn
Superspy sent me. Thanks.
> Frankly, there's quite a list of people that I'm disappointed in. I
> won't name names, except MadMax, who goes out of his way to be nasty to
> everyone, but I don't think Jen_One was ready for that.
Gee, thanks. In case your colored glasses block out anyone but me and
girls you try to hit on, let me point out that there are a large
number of people I a)like b)don't even respond to c)hate, then become
friends with (Zeph, Jasper, Argus, Devvi, Sipher). I'm really only
nasty to people that just grate with me. For example, that guy with
the "TRANS FANS READ" thread...jesus, I've never seen a stupider
person post, and Frank posted recently. As for Jen One, well, the
number of times I decided that flaming her wouldn't be worth it far,
far outweigh the two times I gave in and did flame her.
-Max
*shudder*, photo-realistic.
Joona I Palaste
> "ShadowWing" <the...@SPAMBLOCKADEsnet.net> wrote in message news:<TH1c7.3132$TI6.1...@typhoon.snet.net>...
>>
>> Nightwind and (as someone mentioned recently) DPrime also disappeared
>> from ATT without notice. I also haven't seen Starseeker or Outsyyder, which
>> means Nighty took her whole entourage. And my hugs. :(
>>
> You just creeped me out more than the photo-realistic Star Trek porn
> Superspy sent me. Thanks.
I want to see a nude picture of Jadzia Dax! The *character*, not the
*actor*. I've seen enough pictures of nude women already, I want to
see a nude Trill.
>> Frankly, there's quite a list of people that I'm disappointed in. I
>> won't name names, except MadMax, who goes out of his way to be nasty to
>> everyone, but I don't think Jen_One was ready for that.
> Gee, thanks. In case your colored glasses block out anyone but me and
> girls you try to hit on, let me point out that there are a large
> number of people I a)like b)don't even respond to c)hate, then become
> friends with (Zeph, Jasper, Argus, Devvi, Sipher). I'm really only
Curious, those are three people which I can't stand, and two people
that I've no problem with at all. What a coincidence.
> nasty to people that just grate with me. For example, that guy with
> the "TRANS FANS READ" thread...jesus, I've never seen a stupider
Do you mean MeanATTersSuck? He seems obsessed with his own "Type I
and Type II ATTers" post, which no one else cares about.
> person post, and Frank posted recently. As for Jen One, well, the
> number of times I decided that flaming her wouldn't be worth it far,
> far outweigh the two times I gave in and did flame her.
>
> -Max
> *shudder*, photo-realistic.
Most people are. Erm, hang on...
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"It's time, it's time, it's time to dump the slime!"
- Dr. Dante
Anthony "Tonyfitz" Brucale
news:OGTb7.79007$4e.41...@news5.aus1.giganews.com...
>
> Victor <chri...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010807002802...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
> > What I'm trying to say is.....
> > I hate logging on and off aol as a different user so I can think up
> something
> > a newbie would say. This 'tfjenone' was just a self-experimental theory
to
> see
> > if ATT was really all that disgruntled. Sorry for playing a crude joke
on
> the
> > fans to see if they could handle a REAL newbie.
>
> Are you serious? :)
>
> I know I saw you mention it earlier, but I didn't believe it. Are you
> _really_ Jen One?
Maybe he can cop to being Qweena too while he's at it. ;)
--Ant
--
*****************************************************
Anthony "Tonyfitz" Brucale
"A friend will help you move,
A best friend will help you move a body."
-Chris Roberts, A best friend of mine
<Hooper_X> You're Woptimus Prime, Tony.
Visit my site! http://members.nbci.com/Tonyfitz/index.html
#TFU IS DEAD, go to #WiiGii!
*****************************************************
Stranger
Well, that's the best defense I've heard yet on ATT. I think OJ shoulda'
gone with that instead of the race card.
At least Gardenner apologized when he pissed off the group.
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
MadMaxMFP <madm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9476ceba.01080...@posting.google.com...
Douglas W. Dlin
the proper spell]
On Aug. 8, 2001, Synwraith wrote:
>
> You two have got me interested now, can either Argus or Doug or anyone
> send me a link to a pic of GS?
>
> Thanks in advance =)
http://www.bridge.ne.jp/~probrave/brave/toys/Goldlan.htm
Silverion/God Silverion are about 3/4 down the page. Just look for the
figures with lots of silver chrome, a large shield, and drills on their knees.
> P.S Argus, see ya at NBC 2002 =) I'll definitely see about dragging Morg
> and GaoGaiGareth along =)
Heh...GaoGaiGareth. I like that.
Doug Dlin
ap...@hotmail.com
Victor
>Maybe he can cop to being Qweena too while he's at it. ;)
>
You've got me all figured out :].
=========================================================
Visit: http://www.geocities.com/chrioboy/
Its got lots of pretty pictures :]
=========================================================
ShadowWing
MadMaxMFP wrote
>
>You just creeped me out more than the photo-realistic Star Trek porn
>Superspy sent me. Thanks.
Running gag. Get your brains out of your pants.
>Gee, thanks. In case your colored glasses block out anyone but me and
>girls you try to hit on,
I've never hit on anyone here. Occasion flirt, maybe. However, I don't
do long distance romance, and I've never really "met" anyone here that I'd
want to be anything other than platonic friends with. You must pay
attention, Mad, otherwise...my oh my...look what happens.
>let me point out that there are a large
>number of people I a)like b)don't even respond to c)hate, then become
>friends with (Zeph, Jasper, Argus, Devvi, Sipher). I'm really only
>nasty to people that just grate with me.
Which seems to be quite a list. If they annoy you, just ignore them.
That'd keep a lot of the flame wars down around here.
ShadowWing
Zepherimus wrote
>
>Now, how do I feel about her leaving? Not too bad. I never attacked
>Jen, nor did I speak to her.
I didn't have a lot of contact with her, either. It's just one symptom
of a larger disease that's been spreading through here faster than the hate
plague.
Synwraith
Argus, that thing aint all THAT impressive. And he doesn't have a light-up
gun like JRX so there. =)
If i ever GET a JRX i'm gonna jazz him up with rockets and drills and chrome
him with Himawari's machine, THEN we'll see who rules the gestalt domain ;)
All the best
Synwraith
"Synwraith" <Synw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27fc7.99780$_b4.8...@news1.cableinet.net...
MeanATTersSuck
Dax! The *character*, not the
>
> Do you mean MeanATTersSuck? He seems obsessed with his own "Type I
> and Type II ATTers" post, which no one else cares about.
First, for the record, I'm female. Second, is pointing out the
needless and unwanted profanity, bully mindset that is a TYPE I ATTer
a bad thing? If no one cares, as you claim, then why did some folks
actually agree with me?
Let he without sin cast the first stone.
Brian Kilby
MeanATTersSuck <woes...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:24778d36.01080...@posting.google.com...
::Throws a rock and hits MeanATTersSuck::
Okay, I stole that joke from The Simpsons. Sue me.
Steve-o Stonebraker
> > Let he without sin cast the first stone.
>
> ::Throws a rock and hits MeanATTersSuck::
>
> Okay, I stole that joke
SINNER!!!!! No more stone throwing for you!
Joona I Palaste
Sorry, I had no idea you were female. But instead of saying there are
Type I and Type II ATTers you should give the terms more meaningful
names, so people would actually understand what you are talking about.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Normal is what everyone else is, and you're not."
- Dr. Tolian Soran
Hooks
Jen One <tfje...@aol.com> wrote
*snip*
I laugh.
Because if this were a male Transfan leaving the newsgroup, most people on
here wouldn't even bother replying.
LONELY In Action, folks.
(X)
M Sipher
> MeanATTersSuck <woes...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:24778d36.01080...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Let he without sin cast the first stone.
>
> ::Throws a rock and hits MeanATTersSuck::
Well, she DID say "Jehova"...
M "Always Amused By People Throwing Rocks Then Drudging Out That Trite
Little Bible Quote..." Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions - home of the productions of King Weasel!
Transformers, RockMan, original art, the solutions to all life's problems
and other crap!
http://members.fortunecity.com/msipher
Home of That Big Transformers Variations List and MegaMan/RockMan Toy &
Merchandise Archive!
Sky Shadow
> I laugh.
>
> Because if this were a male Transfan leaving the newsgroup, most people on
> here wouldn't even bother replying.
>
> LONELY In Action, folks.
This is a superfluous and incorrect statement. Rik left, and just about
everyone replied, TJMD left and just about everyone replied. Patrick just
left, and no doubt everyone's going to make fun of him (I'm sure I will).
Admittedly the "hello, I'm ArceePrime" thread (in which you made the same
point several times) was just ridiculous, but Jen One, regardless of her
sex, made diametrically opposed impressions on numerous people in a short
period of time. She was actually treated far worse than the average male
newbie, to the point that even Zobovor lost his cool with the infamous
"prescription" comment.
And surely no fanboy here is insane enough to see ATT as a forum in which he
can "pick up chicks."
Sky Shadow.
--
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Cybertron to be born?
Alex
> > Gee, thanks. In case your colored glasses block out anyone but me and
> > girls you try to hit on, let me point out that there are a large
> > number of people I a)like b)don't even respond to c)hate, then become
> > friends with (Zeph, Jasper, Argus, Devvi, Sipher). I'm really only
>
> Curious, those are three people which I can't stand, and two people
> that I've no problem with at all. What a coincidence.
>
> > nasty to people that just grate with me. For example, that guy with
> > the "TRANS FANS READ" thread...jesus, I've never seen a stupider
>
> Do you mean MeanATTersSuck? He seems obsessed with his own "Type I
> and Type II ATTers" post, which no one else cares about.
>
<snip everything else>
If there is anything wrong with ATT(and IMO the newsgroup is in good
shape), it's that everyone freely expresses their opinions of others.
"Fuck" and "ass" as standalone words don't hurt, but the way they are
used(and directed at) sometimes, I can understand why people get
offended by them. I realize that I may have participated in that kind
of behavior too so I'll try to cut down on it. This isn't a major
issue, but it's something that can be bothering.
Oh, and for those that want an ATT that is free of spam and
flames...just go to RTTM :) . Take care. Good-day
-The #3 Simpsons/Transformers Fan
Stranger
you, this thread has gotten about the same amount of responses to the
original post (not including all these tangents) as Rik's "I'm leaving" post
did.
The only other "I'm leaving" post recently was Vicegrip's - and that didn't
garner much response because he's just gonna not have access to a computer
for awhile, and hopes to be back soon.
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course. And Getting fed up with
Transfans who think they're better than all the other "geeks."
Hooks <hoo...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:Mt8c7.96$mm....@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
Stranger
Can't really get much simpler than that folks. Maybe we can add those
titles to my "Fan Spec" (tech specs for Transfans) idea.....
Garfield (to use a fake poster) - Function: "Dumbass ATT'er"
Motto: "Bwa-ha-ha! Everyone here is an idiot but me! I rule!"
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course. And being completely
silly in this post, folks.
Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:9ksaot$dap$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
Stranger
getting more impressed by it. At first I thought they all looked pretty big
and chessy, but they do grow on you...
Maybe it's just cuz all Combiners are really cool.
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course. And adding Victory Sabre
to his "Most Wanted" TF list.
Synwraith <Synw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b%gc7.100534$_b4.8...@news1.cableinet.net...
The Notorious Z.O.B.
>The only other "I'm leaving" post recently was Vicegrip's - and that
>didn't garner much response because he's just gonna not have access
>to a computer for awhile, and hopes to be back soon.
I think you mean TJMD. Vice Grip did leave, but he didn't write a farewell
post, and he isn't planning on coming back.
The Notorious Z.O.B.
>> Yeah, I don't blame you. Seriously, though, Jen's posts didn't seem
>> especially provocative to me.
I didn't like her at first since it seemed like she was giving me a hard time
about, well, everything. Knockoffs, preschool toys... I'm honestly surprised
she didn't jump me about kitbashing at some point. I agree with what Rob said
about some of her posts being intended to provoke reactions from people. Of
course, that doesn't necessarily mean she was a manufactured persona.
>Well, when she got onto Zob about not giving her the FAQ, that was
>pretty provocative. Really, how many people would be able to handle (or
>even want) an FAQ just two weeks after joining the group?
...I think that whole thing was just a colossal misunderstanding. In
retrospect, Jen did seem very eager to put together a web page, but she noted a
couple of times that she coudn't think of any good ideas. So, I come along and
write a FAQ, but I'm far too lazy to actually maintain it. She might have seen
that as a chance to make some kind of worthwhile contribution. I would have
preferred working things out with her via e-mail, but again, she might not have
known it was bad netiquette to complain about it on the group instead.
--
Zobovor
ZMFTS: ....
http://members.aol.com/zobovor/index.html
The Notorious Z.O.B.
>I laugh.
Hmm. I can't say I find it particularly amusing.
>Because if this were a male Transfan leaving the newsgroup, most
>people on here wouldn't even bother replying.
I'm sorry... Rik who?
Sky Shadow
> I didn't like her at first since it seemed like she was giving me a hard
time
> about, well, everything. Knockoffs, preschool toys... I'm honestly
surprised
> she didn't jump me about kitbashing at some point.
She did actually. She asked you why you'd take a perfectly good toy and
then potentially make it worse.
The Notorious S.K.Y.
The Notorious Z.O.B.
>Jen One, regardless of her sex, made diametrically opposed
>impressions on numerous people in a short period of time. She was
>actually treated far worse than the average male newbie, to the point
>that even Zobovor lost his cool with the infamous "prescription"
>comment.
I feel pretty bad about that. I mean, those weren't exactly the most harsh
words she was exposed to here, but still. It was inappropriate.
>And surely no fanboy here is insane enough to see ATT as a forum in
>which he can "pick up chicks."
Don't be too sure about that, Sky...
Thylacine 2000
> And surely no fanboy here is insane enough to see ATT as a forum in which he
> can "pick up chicks."
They CAN.
They IS.
OPTIMUS PRIME IS BACK.
Wait, no. Anyway. Yeah, that's happened. Seriously.
Not gonna name names.
TTT, not *yet* at least.......
Picard42
>
> I suggest "Dumb ATT'ers" and "Nice ATT'ers"
>
> Can't really get much simpler than that folks. Maybe we can add those
> titles to my "Fan Spec" (tech specs for Transfans) idea.....
Or perhaps we can stop segregating ourselves with idiotic, juvenile
categorizations.
ObTFs: Um...Doubledealer's great isn't he? Sorry, that was weak.
--- Picard42, who's had just about enough of this Type 1 garbage...
www.fandome.com/tfww
Stranger
joking in that post.
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
Picard42 <mmr...@psu.edu> wrote in message news:3B7203B8...@psu.edu...
Duo Maxwell
>
> Steve-o Stonebraker <srst...@bu-ast.bu.edu> wrote in message
> news:slrn9n2e0s....@bu-ast.bu.edu...
> > On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:18:18 -0400, ShadowWing wrote:
> > > Remember sometime ago when Brian was considering starting a new
> forum
> > > for the posters who were getting annoyed with ATT? That's starting to
> look
> >
> > It's called rec.toys.transformers.moderated, people... use it.
>
> Yes. That was basically the idea. While there are things that I don't like
> about RTTMod (no fanfic for one) there's no real reason to start a NEW
> forum.
>
The problem is finding unbiased moderators.
I am a semiregular on rec.games.mecha (When there is something interesting
going on there, I hang out and post for a bit.) and
it is moderated. There are still plenty of flamewars going on there, with
lots of personal attacks. Ok, its mostly these 2 longtime posters there who
hate each other with a passion, but they seem able to get away with it
pretty handily..
The Notorious Z.O.B.
>Need I remind everyone that this is the woman who said that cops use
>toy guns as an excuse to murder children?
Need I remind you that she prefaced her feelings on the issue with "this is my
personal opinion" and did so in a non-inflammatory manner? Need I also remind
you that she has the same rights to express her opinion, whatever it may be, as
you and I do, with the reasonable expectation of not being attacked based
solely on her beliefs?
That's not at all what she actually said, by the way. It looked to me like she
was expressing concerns that the people writing the laws are addressing the
issue of shooting incidents involving minors by taking away harmless toys,
which have been perfectly legal and socially acceptable in the past, instead of
addressing the real issues, namely the fact that kids with toy guns aren't the
problem--it's the kids with *real* guns you need to worry about.
>I'm not saying that Jen One is a terrible person or even an undeniably
>bad one, but the constant praise and feeling of "Jen One can do no
>wrong" has grown quite tiresome. If you disagree with the way she was
>treated, fine, but let's keep some perspective here.
No one here has called her flawless, to my knowledge. I happen to think she
said three or four things that struck me as positively inane, which was a
pretty good track record for someone who was only *on* ATT for something like
two weeks. She did demonstrate the capacity to learn, though, which suggests
she would have eventually mellowed out a bit, maybe even evolved into a model
poster. She never even got the chance, though. I posted some prety vapid
stuff when I first found ATT, but if I'd gotten the hateful treatment she did,
I likely wouldn't have stuck around, either.
I don't *want* ATT to be the same handful of curmudgeony coots, each sitting in
their respective corners, playing with what they know to be the only *true*
Transformers toys and spitting on the mythos that everyone else is blind for
not rejecting as complete crap, and plotting the unpleasant demise of those in
the fandom sick and twisted enough to think differently. I want fresh blood.
I want someone willing to learn, willing to explore ideas and reach their own
conclusions about the mythos and the fandom. I want someone who knows how to
celebrate the characters of their choice without slamming everything else that
gets in the way. I want someone new enough to the fandom that their ideals
about every single facet of Transformers haven't already been set in stone. I
want someone with a fresh outlook, someone who loves Transformers and isn't
afraid to celebrate that without couching it behind some I'm-too-sexy veneer of
cynicism and hatred. That's what I want for ATT.
There's your perspective, Pic.
The Notorious Z.O.B.
> At any rate, in the future I'm sticking to my zero-flames policy, which
>has gotten a bit lax lately. I regret my role in this whole affair, and I
>apologize to everyone involved for it. I don't intend for it to happen
>again.
Hey, Rob, I just want to say that I think it was really cool of you to come out
and say this. For what it's worth, I've gained far more respect for you after
this incident than I ever could have lost. :)
Steve-o Stonebraker
> The problem is finding unbiased moderators.
> I am a semiregular on rec.games.mecha (When there is something interesting
> going on there, I hang out and post for a bit.) and
> it is moderated. There are still plenty of flamewars going on there, with
> lots of personal attacks. Ok, its mostly these 2 longtime posters there who
> hate each other with a passion, but they seem able to get away with it
> pretty handily..
I'm pretty confident in the moderators on RTTMod. Why not check it out,
and see if you feel the same way?
Finback
<Mt8c7.96$mm....@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>...
> Because if this were a male Transfan leaving the newsgroup, most people
on
> here wouldn't even bother replying.
>
> LONELY In Action, folks.
*sob* Does this mean I have to give up my crown, Hooks? :S
I kinda feel like.. like Miss World..
--
+-----------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Marcus Good aka "Finback" | "That which is not dead |
| eg...@cc.curtin.edu.au | can eternal lie, |
| http://student.curtin.edu.au/~egood | And with strange aeons |
+-----------------------------------------+ even death may die." |
|"These things happen to other people, | -- HP Lovecraft, |
| they don't happen at all, in fact." | "Call of Cthulhu". |
|- They Might Be Giants, "She's An Angel".| |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
The Notorious Z.O.B.
>I'm pretty confident in the moderators on RTTMod. Why not check it
>out, and see if you feel the same way?
I don't have any problems with the moderators there, but I'm beginning to
wonder about The Mighty Brawn. I see complaints nearly every week about how
he's regurgitated some message that was originally crosspoted to ATT and/or
ATTCM, and at least a couple people have had to resort to posting to ATT only
on a few occasions. I also sent them the RiD FAQ twice and it never showed up.
I never got a rejection notice either, which likely means that they never even
got it. Or Brawn just ate it.
In any event, my experience is that the moderation software creates more
problems than it solves. It also seems that the vast majority of the posts
that do make it through to RTTM are also crossposted to ATT, so there's very
little point in reading RTTM when just about everything that's there can also
be found on ATT two days earlier.
Now, if everybody here made it a point to post there instead, I'd join them.
Moderation would be a wonderfully effective solution to pretty much all of
ATT's problems at the moment. However, that would also eliminate the Fanfic
Reviews, which I've quite come to enjoy, and might exclude people from the
discussions who don't carry that newsgroup. So, I dunno. ATT's still
salvageable, I think.
Picard42
meant to be completely non-hostile.
"The Notorious Z.O.B." wrote:
>
> Picard42 wrote:
>
> >Need I remind everyone that this is the woman who said that cops use
> >toy guns as an excuse to murder children?
>
> Need I remind you that she prefaced her feelings on the issue with "this is my
> personal opinion" and did so in a non-inflammatory manner? Need I also remind
> you that she has the same rights to express her opinion, whatever it may be, as
> you and I do, with the reasonable expectation of not being attacked based
> solely on her beliefs?
And may I remind you that I have the right to express my opinion of her
opinion? She can say whatever she wants and there's really nothing I
can do about it, but free speech goes both ways. If she says something
that I think is reprehensible, like the afformentioned gun comment, I
have every right to tell her what I think. Free speech is freedom from
oppression, not criticism.
> That's not at all what she actually said, by the way. It looked to me like she
> was expressing concerns that the people writing the laws are addressing the
> issue of shooting incidents involving minors by taking away harmless toys,
> which have been perfectly legal and socially acceptable in the past, instead of
> addressing the real issues, namely the fact that kids with toy guns aren't the
> problem--it's the kids with *real* guns you need to worry about.
Was that before or after she said that cops should know Megatron from a
real gun because they can see the little screws?
> poster. She never even got the chance, though. I posted some prety vapid
> stuff when I first found ATT, but if I'd gotten the hateful treatment she did,
> I likely wouldn't have stuck around, either.
As I recall, she didn't receive any kind of negative treatment until she
harrassed CoolSlider for cursing (and a disguised curse at that).
Again, I'm not excusing anything that anyone in particular did, but it's
not fair to portray her as the innocent newbie who was driven off of the
group for no reason.
> I don't *want* ATT to be the same handful of curmudgeony coots, each sitting in
> their respective corners, playing with what they know to be the only *true*
> Transformers toys and spitting on the mythos that everyone else is blind for
> not rejecting as complete crap, and plotting the unpleasant demise of those in
> the fandom sick and twisted enough to think differently.
I don't really see how this is relevant, frankly. The problems between
Jen One and ATT at large had little or nothing to do with Transformers
or the mythos. I personally don't care what she thinks of Optimus
Prime, or whether Beast Wars is better than G1. She's welcome to
believe whatever she wants.
> I want fresh blood.
> I want someone willing to learn, willing to explore ideas and reach their own
> conclusions about the mythos and the fandom. I want someone who knows how to
> celebrate the characters of their choice without slamming everything else that
> gets in the way. I want someone new enough to the fandom that their ideals
> about every single facet of Transformers haven't already been set in stone. I
> want someone with a fresh outlook, someone who loves Transformers and isn't
> afraid to celebrate that without couching it behind some I'm-too-sexy veneer of
> cynicism and hatred. That's what I want for ATT.
I'm all for new people joining the group, but those people still need to
make some effort to fit in. Does anyone read the FAQ anymore? What
ever happened to the practice of lurking for a while and then jumping in
when you understand the community you're joining (a practice that would
solve pretty much every problem newbies sometimes have)? Joining a
group and then immediately running off on a tangent to discuss your
views on gun control isn't the best way to incorporate oneself.
Am I being unfair? Possibly. I'm probably making Jen One's
transgressions sound a lot worse than they actually are, and if that is
the case, I apologize for that. Still, I'm a bit put off by the
now-rampant cries of, "WHAT HAPPENED TO ATT?!?" and "THIS PLACE IS HELL
NOW! I HATE IT! I HATE YOU ALL!" If anything, ATT is better now than
it's been in a long time.
And finally, you can't blame people for "driving" others off the group.
Whenever someone leaves, it is of his or her own volition. There's
always the option to killfile or ignore those you don't like.
> There's your perspective, Pic.
And there's yours. :)
--- Picard42...hope this didn't sound too condescending...
www.fandome.com/tfww
The Notorious Z.O.B.
>Note: I ramble a bit in this post, but I assure you that my demeanor is
>meant to be completely non-hostile.
Understood. Likewise, keep in mind that I think you smell funny, and
everything I say should be taken as a personal insult.
Wait, that didn't come out right. Hang on.
>> Need I remind you that she prefaced her feelings on the issue with
>>"this is my personal opinion" and did so in a non-inflammatory
>>manner? Need I also remind you that she has the same rights to
>>express her opinion, whatever it may be, as you and I do, with the
>>reasonable expectation of not being attacked based solely on her
>>beliefs?
>
>And may I remind you that I have the right to express my opinion of her
>opinion? She can say whatever she wants and there's really nothing I
>can do about it, but free speech goes both ways. If she says
>something that I think is reprehensible, like the afformentioned gun
>comment, I have every right to tell her what I think. Free speech is
>freedom from oppression, not criticism.
Oh, I understand that completely. What I'm saying here is that just because
you have the *right* to say something doesn't mean that you *should,* or even
that it's appropriate to do so. If Jen had been offensive about her opinions
in the gun thread, flaunting her views as the only sensible ones and telling
everyone who thinks differently to kiss her butt, then sure, I'd expect her to
get flamed. Like begets like, though, and I didn't see any evidence that she
ever did anything to warrant the hostility people slung at her.
At its core, this is probably an example of why discussions about world issues
don't belong on this newsgroup.
>Was that before or after she said that cops should know Megatron from
>a real gun because they can see the little screws?
That one, I can't help you on. Maybe she meant it as a joke, or maybe she
didn't realize the issue was more about kids in dark alleys pointing shiny
objects with triggers at people than some ten-year-old trying to hock the
leader of the Decepticons at a used guns & ammo shop.
And I'll come right out here and say that yeah, that was a fairly obtuse thing
to even say. The main issue here is whether you want to be civil or obnoxious
about it. I mean, I happen to agree with what she said about how people
interact in the real world. If you were at a busy fast food restaurant and
another customer bumped into you without bothering to apologize, would you blow
it off after grousing for a second or two, or would you make a big scene and
shout profanities and stomp your feet and let everyone in the entire restaurant
know what a waste of human flesh you thought this person was?
Assuming you wouldn't, why is it acceptable to behave that way on the Internet?
>As I recall, she didn't receive any kind of negative treatment until she
>harrassed CoolSlider for cursing (and a disguised curse at that).
>Again, I'm not excusing anything that anyone in particular did, but it's
>not fair to portray her as the innocent newbie who was driven off of the
>group for no reason.
Check the "Need Voice" thread on Google. She got flamed something like a
couple of days after she showed up, in a manner that wasn't even close to being
directly proportionate to her behavior. Actually, she didn't do *anything*
except make an innocent suggestion that, as it turns out, was entirely within
the realm of possibility.
>I don't really see how this is relevant, frankly. The problems between
>Jen One and ATT at large had little or nothing to do with Transformers
>or the mythos.
My point was mainly that the new element that she and other newcomers
represents would go a long way to making this place a lot more fresh and
interesting than it is now. Sure, there was a lot about Transformers that she
didn't know or couldn't remember, but while most folks were fairly patient in
explaining stuff to her, her questions seemed to piss off a few people for some
reason. Did I miss the announcement of the cut-off point when people weren't
allowed to join the fandom if they didn't have a working knowledge of the
stories and toy line?
>I'm all for new people joining the group, but those people still need to
>make some effort to fit in. Does anyone read the FAQ anymore?
>What ever happened to the practice of lurking for a while and then
>jumping in when you understand the community you're joining (a
>practice that would solve pretty much every problem newbies
>sometimes have)? Joining a group and then immediately running off on
>a tangent to discuss your views on gun control isn't the best way to
>incorporate oneself.
Perhaps not. On the other hand, I fail to see how someone completely new to
the Internet, as Jen seemed to be, is supposed to know that a FAQ even
*exists,* let alone where to find one. This sort of argument applies very
nicely to people who already know their way around other newsgroups. Whenever
I post to a new group I try to read as many posts as I can first, since chances
are fairly good that whatever question I have might have been answered
previously. Heck, I even check the Google archives. But then, I've also been
using the Internet for seven years now.
Jen struck me as a quick learner, though. It only took one or two suggestions
to ignore Rob Cypher before she quit replying to him. The first time someone
told her not to post off-topic messages, she immediately repented for it. I
expect that if someone had directed her to the FAQ, she would have gone
straight to it. I just don't think she got the chance she deserved to learn
enough to eventually become a strong contributor. (There are so many people
here who act like they're *tired* of Transformers that it was positively
refreshing to read posts from someone so enthusiastic about them.)
>Am I being unfair? Possibly. I'm probably making Jen One's
>transgressions sound a lot worse than they actually are, and if that is
>the case, I apologize for that. Still, I'm a bit put off by the
>now-rampant cries of, "WHAT HAPPENED TO ATT?!?" and "THIS
>PLACE IS HELL NOW! I HATE IT! I HATE YOU ALL!" If anything,
>ATT is better now than it's been in a long time.
I don't see it that way at all, and people aren't complaining only about Jen
leaving, but the conditions that prompted her to leave around the same time as
two longtime fans who were formerly among my favorite contributors to the
group. The real problem with ATT as it stands now is not that there are
invaders spewing hateful remarks, starting flame wars and deluging us with
off-topic posts. We don't need outsiders for that, since we've got regulars to
do that for us. To fight against the problem, we have to fight *ourselves.* I
hate that.
>And finally, you can't blame people for "driving" others off the group.
>Whenever someone leaves, it is of his or her own volition. There's
>always the option to killfile or ignore those you don't like.
As I said earlier, I can't just filter out the people causing the problems when
otherwise well-meaning Transfans also get dragged into the mix. My biggest
problem is that some of the people I respect, and whose posts I like to read,
are supporting this behavior and sometimes contributing to it. Just about
everybody here is affiliated with somebody else in some fashion, so when any
two Transfans decide to mix it up, six or seven other people immediately become
involved by proxy because they're sticking up for their friends. What
*everyone* needs to do is accept that there *are* going to be people that you
disagree with, or even hate, AND follow in the footsteps of the good Mr. Powers
and adopt a no-flames policy, PERIOD.
Does anybody else here remember Dan Campbell's "form flame"? It was a harmless
and humorous way of telling people that they were doing something obnoxious on
the newsgroup without actually hurting their feelings. Wouldn't it be neat if
people did that instead of using language orchestrated to hurt others as much
as possible?
>> There's your perspective, Pic.
>
>And there's yours. :)
>
>--- Picard42...hope this didn't sound too condescending...
>www.fandome.com/tfww
No, not in the least. I appreciate your addressing the issues calmly and
intelligently. ATT needs more folks like you. :)
Steve-o Stonebraker
> (There are so many people here who act like they're *tired* of
> Transformers that it was positively refreshing to read posts from
> someone so enthusiastic about them.)
I like the way you've put this. It's very similar to a thought I've been
having recently... Being hyper-critical has somehow become cool. And, I
don't mean being meticulously anal about every last detail, I mean, well,
hating everything. There's a vague Gen-X kind of notion that liking stuff
isn't cool, and that if you're smart you should be able to see through all
the crap that everything is and criticise constantly. The only thing
that's really cool to like is irony. There's a nice, humorous, account of
this in a classic Onion article:
http://www.theonion.com/onion3637/aging_gen-xer.html
Now, that's a stereotype, of course, and I'm not saying that anybody is
really, consciously trying to be 1337 by being above actually enjoying
Transformers. But I think a lot of people here -- including me -- let
that sort of attitude seep in a little too much.
Making fun of G1, for example, has become rather popular. Saying the
cartoon is painfully stupid, the movie is a piece of crap, etc., etc.. I
even considered writing a "G1 is not that bad (TM)" / "In defense of G1"
post a while back when there was an especially large amount of bashing
going on... G1 bashers get away with comments that would lead to a
50-post flamewar if they were directed at Beast Wars.
It's not just G1, though. Many aspects of Transformers are ridiculed on a
regular basis, and I'm at a loss to understand it. If there's so little
enjoyment in Transformers for somebody that most of their posts are
negative -- saying various TF things suck -- then I have to wonder why
they are even participating in the fandom.
Amazingly enough, one of the things that I see complaints about most often
is rabid, complaining fanboys... We complain about TRUKK NOT MUNKY'ers,
about ATT's tendency to hate everything new, etc.. (I suppose even this
post counts, in a sense, as a meta-complaint.) The uber-fan tries to have
an elevated appreciation of all the camp and irony in their franchise of
choice, and then proceeds to do nothing but complain about those
qualities, and then tops it off by complaining about other people who are
complaining about the qualities *they* don't like. And, I am amused by
the irony of it all, because the irony seems to be lost of the people who
most appreciate irony... which leads into a neverending ironic cycle.
It's not that I think people should never post negative opinions of
stuff... I just don't really see the point of doing it so often. Wouldn't
they be happier writing about stuff they *do* like? Wouldn't we all be
happier reading posts that were enthusiastic and positive? Dry cynicism
has its place, and can be very entertaining. Even loudmouthed cynicism
has a niche to fill. But there's just so... much... recently...
It sounds cornball, I know, but I really think ATT would be a nicer place
if people would just stop complaining so much, not bother bashing things
that other people like, and just have some regular, old-fashioned good
times chatting about titanic self-aware robots from outer space that have
pieces of airplanes and dinosaurs hanging off of their shoulders.
My point is, when lots of negative posts are made, it creates a negative
atmosphere for the group. And in a negative atmosphere, people are more
likely to complain, more likely to argue or flame, and more likely to make
even more negative posts.
And, I'm *not* trying to say that I think ATT is a huge pile of slag. I
love ATT. I don't think it's the worst it's ever been. I don't think
it's not worth coming here. This is just something which has been
drifting through my mind, and your (Zob's) post brought it to the surface.
So I figured I'd bring it up. Is making ATT a better place really as easy
as trying to be upbeat? No, but it's a really good start... (Now let's
all sing "Hands" by Jewel together.)
> Does anybody else here remember Dan Campbell's "form flame"?
Boy, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time... I did a little
Googling for "form flame" in posts by "campbell" in ATT, and read through
a few... I'd forgotten how well he customized them to each individual
posting. I mean, there was the general ATT Form Flame which he'd modified
from the original, but he always added new boxes -- some of which he
didn't check -- that were appropriate to the target of the flame. Very
amusing...
Robert Powers
Behold! On 10 Aug 2001 23:03:54 GMT, Steve-o Stonebraker
<srst...@bu-ast.bu.edu> did speak:
>hating everything. There's a vague Gen-X kind of notion that liking stuff
>isn't cool, and that if you're smart you should be able to see through all
>the crap that everything is and criticise constantly. The only thing
That's such a bunch of crap. You're so just spouting out what The Man
tells you. Blind follower! I hate you. Everything sucks.
>Making fun of G1, for example, has become rather popular. Saying the
>cartoon is painfully stupid, the movie is a piece of crap, etc., etc.. I
>even considered writing a "G1 is not that bad (TM)" / "In defense of G1"
Heh. You know it's bad when *I* of all people have considered writing
a "TF:TM is Cool!" post -- which I have indeed pondered.
>complaining about the qualities *they* don't like. And, I am amused by
>the irony of it all, because the irony seems to be lost of the people who
>most appreciate irony... which leads into a neverending ironic cycle.
Megatron? Is that you?
>happier reading posts that were enthusiastic and positive? Dry cynicism
>has its place, and can be very entertaining. Even loudmouthed cynicism
>has a niche to fill. But there's just so... much... recently...
Agreed. Which is a shame, because I *know* some people really *are*
enthused about various aspects of TFdom recently, such as the BFTS toys.
>as trying to be upbeat? No, but it's a really good start... (Now let's
>all sing "Hands" by Jewel together.)
Right. Long as you don't mind me aiming the vomit at *your* shoes. >:]
>didn't check -- that were appropriate to the target of the flame. Very
>amusing...
Fault? EARTHQUAKE?? Hello?!
--
Robert Powers of the Ever-Changing .sig
repo...@uwm.edu
http://www.BuiltStLouis.net/ __________________________
| SONG IN MY HEAD RIGHT NOW: |
| "Never Say Goodbye" by Bon Jovi, another song that's |
|_ right near the top of the vomit-inducing list. _____|
Aaron F. Bourque
>It's not just G1, though. Many aspects of Transformers are ridiculed on a
>regular basis
Beast Machines.
Beast Machines.
Beast machines.
Beast Machines
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; Beast Machines
--
"If you don't know concentration, which gives you peculiar pleasure, your life
looks like hell."--Hiroyuki Nishigaki
Duo Maxwell
> >Making fun of G1, for example, has become rather popular. Saying the
> >cartoon is painfully stupid, the movie is a piece of crap, etc., etc.. I
> >even considered writing a "G1 is not that bad (TM)" / "In defense of G1"
>
> Heh. You know it's bad when *I* of all people have considered writing
> a "TF:TM is Cool!" post -- which I have indeed pondered.
>
I consider TFTM one of my favorite movies, warts and all.
Ok, so it isnt Aliens, Fight Club, or Seven, but it is a personal favorite.
I don't really worry too much about other people liking it any more.
Though count me out of the singing part.
I don't want to buy the world a Coke.
I might hum along to "Rainbow Connection" though..