Why Beast Wars SUCKS (Pardon my french)
Ultimate Toys
Okay, here we go. First, I can't really understand what it is about the
Beast Wars that I dislike most. The writing? Nah. I can't really bag on
the writing. I don't even watch the show..and I'm a hardcore TF fan. Why
don't I watch it? Heh, would I watch a new Lethal Weapon movie without
Riggs? Would I watch the new Star Wars movie if it were about nothing but
Ewoks? My point is...what the hell are the writers thinking?? Beast Wars?
Spare me. Slap Transformers on it, give them similar names...but kill all
continuity by using the lame excuse that it's happening 200 years later?
First, if you want to capture fans new and keep the fans of old you keep
the same characters. You don't need *all* of the same characters...but
you keep the familiarity. No, giving different characters the same names
doesn't cut it. At least keep 'some' of the same characters. I realize
that characters must change...but please...Beast Wars? These aren't even
close to what Transformers should be about. We already had beasts in the
old TF's. Predacons, Dinobots, and all of that. What makes BW so
interesting? I think fans need the classic villains and classic heroes.
There were hundreds of untold stories left to tell about the old
Transformers. What I see happening is the same crap that killed The
X-Men. Hey, lets add more characters instead of expanding on the older
ones. Before you know it, there's so many new characters that nobody
cares anymore. New guy, new guy, new guy. It sucks. Sheesh, you'd think
someone out there would learn by what is happening to the comic
market...WE NEED SOME GOOD CREATORS & WRITERS. Yes, I am biased toward
the early 80's TF and the Movie era...but it was the best...period. The
writing was witty and inventive. Once the movie ended...things just went
downhill. If they were anything but "beasts" though...it might work.
Yecch! Bring back the cool machinery and the amazing cars, futuristic
ships, vehicles & transformable weaponry. Jurassic Park is over...nobody
cares about dinos & lizards anymore. The only reason to like Beast Wars
is because there's nothing else out there with the name 'Transformers' on
it. Almost a reason to purchase the toys or watch the show....almost. Uh
oh, I better go. I see all of those religious Beast Wars watchers coming
after me. Seriously, it's just my opinion. If you like BW, good for you.
If not, I think you probably grew up with Transformers and know what
they're really all about. As for the writers of the show...I don't blame
them. They didn't create the whole concept...or did they? In any
case...whoever is responsible...I cringe at thee.
Dano
Iggy Drougge
From a religious BW fanatic: =)
Why doesn't any BW haters come up with any better arguments than "it
should be", what it should,m what it was, etc. They seem to ingore that
the kids did not care much for G2, cars and planes, but they care for the
new beasts.
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Fill in your name here
Ultimate Toys (ult...@mail.inreach.com) wrote:
(Ben rolls up his sleeves to get down to work) - Warning: LONG
: Okay, here we go. First, I can't really understand what it is about the
: Beast Wars that I dislike most. The writing? Nah. I can't really bag on
: the writing. I don't even watch the show..and I'm a hardcore TF fan. Why
: don't I watch it? Heh, would I watch a new Lethal Weapon movie without
: Riggs? Would I watch the new Star Wars movie if it were about nothing but
: Ewoks? My point is...what the hell are the writers thinking?? Beast
Wars?
You have the right to not like the various directions the
Transformers have gone in (even before Beast Wars). As for the show,
since you haven't seen it the best thing I'll say is it's a bit pointless
to try to judge things that you haven't seen. If you have seen Beast Wars
and hated it, okay, we can chat on another thread about it. As for the
movies (as a quick digression), I WOULD watch a Star Wars movie without
Ewoks, that's why I saw A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back AND I've
followed the fiction through the comics and books as well.
: Spare me. Slap Transformers on it, give them similar names...but kill all
: continuity by using the lame excuse that it's happening 200 years later?
: First, if you want to capture fans new and keep the fans of old you keep
: the same characters.
You can't call 200 years later a 'lame' excuse if you haven't even
seen the fiction and how it will work out yet. So far with the two part
preview, we've only been given a glimpse at what's ahead. And NO, it is
NOT always necesary to 'keep the same characters'. If that were true,
Warner Bros. cartoon fans wouldn't watch Animaniacs, they would say "I
only want Bugs and Daffy!" or ALL Star Trek fans would have said "No
Picard and Riker, we want only Kirk and Spock!". Change is part of life
and fiction. Also, as demonstrated in the Japanese series (which seem to
go over well with Transfans), Transformers don't ALWAYS have to
concentrate on Prime and Megatron, Bumblebee and the Decepticon jets etc.,
etc. It IS possible to create a set of new characters and work with an
established universe to create a good show.
You don't need *all* of the same characters...but : you keep the familiarity.
My point exactly. But define familiarity, your definition seems
to be "reuse the same people over and over and over." however, familiarity
can refer to a universe such as that which the Autobots and Decepticons
exist in (or in BW's case, Maximals and Predacons). Star Trek is an
example (yet again, it's redundant but it's a notable one). Although the
new series had a whole new cast, it took place in an established universe
with established groups and fiction behind it and still resulted in a hit
(albeit it took time to get good).
: that characters must change...but please...Beast Wars? These aren't even
: close to what Transformers should be about. We already had beasts in the
: old TF's. Predacons, Dinobots, and all of that. What makes BW so
: interesting?
How are they not close? They are two robotic sides of the
Transformer race at war. They all have disguises to conceal their 'true
natures' (Robots in disguise, remember?). They are More than Meets the
eye! (heck, if my cat became a robot, I would be a bit shocked). Although
the Predacons and Maximals may only be the descendents of the Autobots and
Decepticons, they are still Cybertronian (hey, remember, at one point even
the Autobots and Decepticons weren't Autobots and Decepticons). Beast
Wars is interesting because:
a. It's the first new 'big' relaunch of the Transformers in a while
including a well thought out toy line and the upcoming show.
b. The toys are VERY well made, on average the animal modes are nicely
done and the robot modes are neat looking with about an average of 9
points of articulation (uncommon in today's toy market).
c. The fiction of Maximals and Predacons being descendents is holding the
interest of SOME fans who want to see what has happened since the original
series in the TF Universe. Obviously we are exploring new territory here
and I for one (with some other fans I suspect) want to see how it turns
out.
d. The quality of the toys, along with Mr. DiTillio's willingness to take
fan opinions into account with Beast Wars shows a level of caring
regarding the fans that is sort of new to everyone and welcome.
There may be more reasons why it's interesting, but I can't think
of too many more right now.
I think fans need the classic villains and classic heroes.
If that were true, Masterforce and Victory Saga should have been
huge flops. Characters like Ginrai, Sonic Bomber and Minerva should be
utterly hated.
What I see happening is the same crap that killed The
: X-Men. Hey, lets add more characters instead of expanding on the older
: ones.
They are using new characters and expanding on THEM. I think what
is important is characterization and creativity. It is NOT absolutely
necesary for the same characters to be used again, and again, and again.
Nowadays, what's new is fresh and sells. However, when you can take new
ideas or characters and blend them into an older concept, it sometimes
provides good results and I think Beast Wars is doing just that.
: someone out there would learn by what is happening to the comic
: market...WE NEED SOME GOOD CREATORS & WRITERS.
I think Mr. Forward and DiTillio are doing well so far. Also,
this is not comic books, the market may be similar (in terms of people
involved), but the process is different. I think most people will say
that it's one thing to have to get an issue out and sell it every month
towards a certain quota but it's another thing to make a half hour weekly
program that will appeal to fans over and over while automatically
reaching a wide audience. In other words, Beast Wars is a show (or
concept, idea etc.) that you won't have to plunk down $1.95-$2.95 a month
for, you can just flip on your TV and watch it. I have been often
interested in reading certain comics (X-Men included) that I simply
couldn't afford. With Beast Wars, the only cost involved is getting the
toys and no one said you MUST buy the toys to watch the show or vice
versa.
Yes, I am biased toward
: the early 80's TF and the Movie era...but it was the best...period. The
: writing was witty and inventive. Once the movie ended...things just went
: downhill.
Maybe, this subject seems to be still debated. Will I agree the
80's were the best era? Yes, I do. Even the now rising success of Beast
Wars doesn't overshadow what TF's managed to do in the past.
If they were anything but "beasts" though...it might work.
: Yecch! Bring back the cool machinery and the amazing cars, futuristic
: ships, vehicles & transformable weaponry.
It is working. Beast Wars is selling and I've found very few
people who I've shown the cartoon to who didn't ask me repeatedly "When is
this on?!" and say "This is awesome!" (or the more often heard "Awww
sh*t, this is good). As for cool machinery and cars etc., where have you
been? Since the reinstatement of TF's through Generation 2, the TF's have
been (virtually) nothing but cars, planes etc., etc. The old formula was
reused and the result were languishing Gobots, Cyberjets and color
changing cars on the rack. Granted these were cool toys, heck, I love all
my G2 toys but the general public (the kids especially) just didn't buy
into it.
Jurassic Park is over...nobody cares about dinos & lizards anymore.
I'm not trying to be difficult but the evidence just doesn't hold
up to what you're saying. Jurassic Park wasn't the only pitch that BW has
behind it. The success of the Power Rangers did have some 'animalistic'
factors to it too. The BW line is feeding off that a bit and so far,
judging from the kid's reactions when they see Beast Wars toys in the
aisle, Hasbro/Kenner has hit the mark on this one.
The only reason to like Beast Wars
: is because there's nothing else out there with the name 'Transformers' on
: it.
Nah, you don't HAVE to like Beast Wars, I'm just saying they have
their own merits. I may be preaching to the deaf here but hey, when
things are new, I generally want to give them a chance before I dump all
over them and hate them.
: Seriously, it's just my opinion. If you like BW, good for you.
: If not, I think you probably grew up with Transformers and know what
: they're really all about.
See, now you've made that logistical error that makes the ol'
energon boil. I AM a fan that grew up with TF's. I practically breathed
and lived on TF's when they first came out in the 80's and even now
they're THE toy line I chase down at toys stores and when the BW sneak
preview aired, my heart was thumping. When Generation 2 aired, I was
excited and then let down. Just because someone liked the old
series, it doesn't make them any less of a fan if they like Beast Wars.
As for the writers of the show...I don't blame
: them. They didn't create the whole concept...or did they? In any
: case...whoever is responsible...I cringe at thee.
:
To an extent they had to work with what Hasbro gave them which was
the set of characters and the organic bit. The writers took it from there
and I think they've done a great job so far.
Ben "Maximize!"
ye...@is2.nyu.edu
: Dano
:
:
msipher
On 3 May 1996, Iggy Drougge wrote:
> From a religious BW fanatic: =)
> Why doesn't any BW haters come up with any better arguments than "it
> should be", what it should,m what it was, etc.
Because there aren't really any other arguments. The line's quality is on
average better than most any other toy line to date, so they can't use
that...
> They seem to ingore that
> the kids did not care much for G2, cars and planes, but they care for the
> new beasts.
True. The old stuff just wasn't selling enough to justify continuing.
Actually, I think that the cars/jets thing would sell if they joined with
Lego of America and did what the Japanese line is doing...
M Sipher, samrt-assed quoteless.
Trnsfrmrs
the show is called "BEAST WARS" not Transformers!! Kenner is slowly
transforming the line into something else that does not resemble anything
before.
OPTIMUS PRIME IS A GORRILLA !!!!!!!!!! What would King Kong say?
Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
aka INTERBOT
Trnsfrmrs
they are not even feature in the Collecting Toys magazine under new toys
they weren't even at Toy Fair 96
they are not in my Service Merchandise catalog which usually has all toys
in it!!!
No one advertises them for sale it is like they don't even exist!!!
BTW Kenner is a subsidiary of Hasbro
aka INTERBOT
snkwong@undefined
opt...@canit.se (Iggy Drougge) writes:
>
>From a religious BW fanatic: =)
>Why doesn't any BW haters come up with any better arguments than "it
>new beasts.
Very good point there... I don't understand why people always say that. It was,
okay, it was... but it is now. Y'know? I mean there ARE some who did grow
up with transformers, and still do like them... as well as the new beast wars.
Evan
msipher
On 4 May 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> Ultimate Toys (ult...@mail.inreach.com) wrote:
>
> (Ben rolls up his sleeves to get down to work) - Warning: LONG
I'll go in on this...
> : Okay, here we go. First, I can't really understand what it is about the
> : Beast Wars that I dislike most. The writing? Nah. I can't really bag on
> : the writing. I don't even watch the show..and I'm a hardcore TF fan. Why
> : don't I watch it? Heh, would I watch a new Lethal Weapon movie without
> : Riggs? Would I watch the new Star Wars movie if it were about nothing but
> : Ewoks? My point is...what the hell are the writers thinking?? Beast
> Wars?
The writers of the show have no choice in the matter.
Plus, what kind of examples are those? To use your Star Wars exapmle, BW
is nothing like "nothing but Ewoks". It's more like a SW movie that
*didn't* have Ewoks... or Luke and Han and Darth and all of our familiar
characters, but IN THE SAME CONTINUITY, JUST A DIFFERENT TIME AND PLACE. So,
are you going to say the three new SW movies are going to suck just because
they don't have all the old cast?
> movies (as a quick digression), I WOULD watch a Star Wars movie without
> Ewoks, that's why I saw A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back AND I've
> followed the fiction through the comics and books as well.
No, he said a movie with nothing BUT Ewoks.
(Short digression: I don't quite understand the animosity towards Ewoks,
myself.)
> : Spare me. Slap Transformers on it, give them similar names...but kill all
> : continuity by using the lame excuse that it's happening 200 years later?
What do you mean, kill all continuity? Just seems like a Star Trek TNG
move to me.
> : First, if you want to capture fans new and keep the fans of old you keep
> : the same characters.
>
> You can't call 200 years later a 'lame' excuse if you haven't even
> seen the fiction and how it will work out yet. So far with the two part
> preview, we've only been given a glimpse at what's ahead. And NO, it is
> NOT always necesary to 'keep the same characters'. If that were true,
> Warner Bros. cartoon fans wouldn't watch Animaniacs, they would say "I
> only want Bugs and Daffy!"
And we wouldn't have Freakazoid! NOOOOOOO!!!!
> Change is part of life
> and fiction. Also, as demonstrated in the Japanese series (which seem to
> go over well with Transfans), Transformers don't ALWAYS have to
> concentrate on Prime and Megatron, Bumblebee and the Decepticon jets etc.,
> etc. It IS possible to create a set of new characters and work with an
> established universe to create a good show.
Exactly. They kill Prime early in HeadMasters (practically right after he
got revived), Galvatron dissappears for a while too. MasterForce has one
who looks like Prime (but ISN'T), and that's about it. Victory has an
entirely new cast, as does Zone. These are all great shows.
> You don't need *all* of the same characters...but : you keep the familiarity.
>
> My point exactly. But define familiarity, your definition seems
> to be "reuse the same people over and over and over." however, familiarity
> can refer to a universe such as that which the Autobots and Decepticons
> exist in (or in BW's case, Maximals and Predacons).
How is this unfamiliar? Two warring factions of robots search for
Energon, crash on alien planet, modify their bodies to blend in with
their surroundings. Where have I heard THAT story before?
> : that characters must change...but please...Beast Wars? These aren't even
> : close to what Transformers should be about. We already had beasts in the
> : old TF's. Predacons, Dinobots, and all of that. What makes BW so
> : interesting?
"Should be about". I'll tell you what Transformers IS about, no matter
HOW it's presented, and in any form. TFs are about making money for
Hasbro. Pure and simple. Vehicles weren't cutting it anymore, so they
took a different approach, and it's making them money.
> a. It's the first new 'big' relaunch of the Transformers in a while
> including a well thought out toy line and the upcoming show.
Hasbro REALLY dropped the ball on G2. They had enough new characters to
justify doing a new cartoon, but nooooo...
> b. The toys are VERY well made, on average the animal modes are nicely
> done and the robot modes are neat looking with about an average of 9
> points of articulation (uncommon in today's toy market).
These things are built to be played with, not stood up and stared at.
Spawn may look nice, but that line deserves the praise for being good
action figures like Elvis deserved his Black Belt. BW is not a one-trick
pony... they look great, there's the transforming gimmick, their robot
modes (and often animal modes) are very posable, their accessories are
built-in to make them harder to lose...
> c. The fiction of Maximals and Predacons being descendents is holding the
> interest of SOME fans who want to see what has happened since the original
> series in the TF Universe. Obviously we are exploring new territory here
> and I for one (with some other fans I suspect) want to see how it turns
> out.
Exactly. I like what the cartoon's fiction has so far...
> d. The quality of the toys, along with Mr. DiTillio's willingness to take
> fan opinions into account with Beast Wars shows a level of caring
> regarding the fans that is sort of new to everyone and welcome.
The toy quality is greta, but the fact that Mr. DiTillio's here with us
speaks volumes to me. Hell, the fact that they even bothered to take the
old cartoon into account is rather telling...
> There may be more reasons why it's interesting, but I can't think
> of too many more right now.
Don't forget the beautiful animation.
> I think fans need the classic villains and classic heroes.
>
> If that were true, Masterforce and Victory Saga should have been
> huge flops. Characters like Ginrai, Sonic Bomber and Minerva should be
> utterly hated.
>
> What I see happening is the same crap that killed The
> : X-Men. Hey, lets add more characters instead of expanding on the older
> : ones.
No, X-Men is dying because it just sucks. That and the dependance on
Wolverine. (Am I the only one who simply does not like him?)
> They are using new characters and expanding on THEM. I think what
> is important is characterization and creativity. It is NOT absolutely
> necesary for the same characters to be used again, and again, and again.
I think that watching Primal slowly prove himself to be a good leader is
a LOT more interesting than just having him automatically be the great
omnipotent never-wrong leader type.
> : someone out there would learn by what is happening to the comic
> : market...WE NEED SOME GOOD CREATORS & WRITERS.
We *HAVE* good creators and writers. The writers are bound by what toys
Hasbro/Kenner produces. And on the whole, the toys are good.
> that it's one thing to have to get an issue out and sell it every month
> towards a certain quota but it's another thing to make a half hour weekly
> program that will appeal to fans over and over while automatically
> reaching a wide audience. In other words, Beast Wars is a show (or
> concept, idea etc.) that you won't have to plunk down $1.95-$2.95 a month
> for, you can just flip on your TV and watch it.
There is a LOT more competition on TV than in either the toy OR comic
market.
> Maybe, this subject seems to be still debated. Will I agree the
> 80's were the best era? Yes, I do. Even the now rising success of Beast
> Wars doesn't overshadow what TF's managed to do in the past.
And I doubt we will ever see that era again.
> If they were anything but "beasts" though...it might work.
> : Yecch! Bring back the cool machinery and the amazing cars, futuristic
> : ships, vehicles & transformable weaponry.
Funny, there are those who will say that the futuristic vehicles were the
low points of the line...
> It is working. Beast Wars is selling and I've found very few
> people who I've shown the cartoon to who didn't ask me repeatedly "When is
> this on?!" and say "This is awesome!" (or the more often heard "Awww
> sh*t, this is good).
I've shown it to my co-workers, who work with 3-D computer animation, and
they thought that it was excellent. The only parts they didn't like were
either technical problems that only occurred due to a short amount of
time to do the first two episode, or the names given to the toys by the
manufacturers.
As for cool machinery and cars etc., where have you
> been? Since the reinstatement of TF's through Generation 2, the TF's have
> been (virtually) nothing but cars, planes etc., etc. The old formula was
> reused and the result were languishing Gobots, Cyberjets and color
> changing cars on the rack. Granted these were cool toys, heck, I love all
> my G2 toys but the general public (the kids especially) just didn't buy
> into it.
The Cyberjets were (in my opinion) the best toys of the late G2 line, but
they didn't sell. Something was missing, and it was the alternate mode.
They changed that, kept the same general make of the Cyberjets, and bingo.
> Jurassic Park is over...nobody cares about dinos & lizards anymore.
There's a lot more to the BW line than just reptiles...
> I'm not trying to be difficult but the evidence just doesn't hold
> up to what you're saying. Jurassic Park wasn't the only pitch that BW has
> behind it. The success of the Power Rangers did have some 'animalistic'
> factors to it too. The BW line is feeding off that a bit and so far,
> judging from the kid's reactions when they see Beast Wars toys in the
> aisle, Hasbro/Kenner has hit the mark on this one.
Tastes change. That's all there is too it.
> The only reason to like Beast Wars
> : is because there's nothing else out there with the name 'Transformers' on
> : it.
Hardly.
> Nah, you don't HAVE to like Beast Wars, I'm just saying they have
> their own merits. I may be preaching to the deaf here but hey, when
> things are new, I generally want to give them a chance before I dump all
> over them and hate them.
Go buy a Terrorsaur. Watch the show. THEN jugde them.
> : Seriously, it's just my opinion. If you like BW, good for you.
> : If not, I think you probably grew up with Transformers and know what
> : they're really all about.
Again, they're REALLY about making money.
Have you read the group? It seems like almost everybody on the group grew
up with the original Transformers. And many of us like at least *some*
aspects of BW, even if other aspects don't go down well. Just because
it's different doesn't mean it automatically sucks.
M "All We Are Saying Is Give Beasts... (Groan)." sipher
Trnsfrmrs
Also my sister doesn't like them either she is just 7 yrs old & thinks
they aren't real TFs. She also has her own TF collection (takes after her
brothers :-)
aka INTERBOT
msipher
On 4 May 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> the show is called "BEAST WARS" not Transformers!!
Err... it's called BEAST WARS TRANSFORMERS.
Kenner is slowly
> transforming the line into something else that does not resemble anything
> before.
KENNER IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS!!!!! How many times must it be said
that HASBRO changed the line, HASBRO dropped them in Kenner's lap.
> OPTIMUS PRIME IS A GORRILLA !!!!!!!!!! What would King Kong say?
Nothing. He's dead.
> Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
Aaaaaaand? So what?
M Sipher
Nowlin Olatunji
In article <4mc7gc$r7@news>, Ultimate Toys <ult...@mail.inreach.com> wrote:
>Okay, here we go. First, I can't really understand what it is about the
>Beast Wars that I dislike most. The writing?
I like the character development (how many times did Prime have to put up
with people smart mouthing him (other than the Aerialbots)).
>Nah. I can't really bag on the writing. I don't even watch the
>show..and I'm a hardcore TF fan.
would at least give the show a chance, 8^)
>don't I watch it? Heh, would I watch a new Lethal Weapon movie without
>Riggs? Would I watch the new Star Wars movie if it were about nothing but
>Ewoks?
Cough, aren't all the Lethal Weapon movies just rewrites of each other,
no real plot in them, 8^).
>Spare me. Slap Transformers on it, give them similar names...but kill all
>continuity by using the lame excuse that it's happening 200 years later?
It doesn't matter when it's happening, this is not focused on the robots
that we know from the Generation 1 series, they have total freedom to do
as they wish, I'm glad to have a new Transformers related show out that
is actually better than the original.
>First, if you want to capture fans new and keep the fans of old you keep
>the same characters
Hasbro is not concerned with the old chars, they want the next generation
of kids with money to spend on the toys. That's the way things work.
You don't need *all* of the same characters...but
>you keep the familiarity. No, giving different characters the same names
>doesn't cut it. At least keep 'some' of the same characters. I realize
>that characters must change...but please...Beast Wars? These aren't even
>close to what Transformers should be about. We already had beasts in the
>old TF's. Predacons, Dinobots, and all of that. What makes BW so
>interesting? I think fans need the classic villains and classic heroes.
>There were hundreds of untold stories left to tell about the old
>Transformers. What I see happening is the same crap that killed The
>X-Men. Hey, lets add more characters instead of expanding on the older
>ones. Before you know it, there's so many new characters that nobody
>cares anymore. New guy, new guy, new guy. It sucks. Sheesh, you'd think
>someone out there would learn by what is happening to the comic
>market...WE NEED SOME GOOD CREATORS & WRITERS. Yes, I am biased toward
>the early 80's TF and the Movie era...but it was the best...period. The
>writing was witty and inventive. Once the movie ended...things just went
>downhill. If they were anything but "beasts" though...it might work.
>Yecch! Bring back the cool machinery and the amazing cars, futuristic
>ships, vehicles & transformable weaponry. Jurassic Park is over...nobody
>cares about dinos & lizards anymore. The only reason to like Beast Wars
>is because there's nothing else out there with the name 'Transformers' on
>it. Almost a reason to purchase the toys or watch the show....almost. Uh
>oh, I better go. I see all of those religious Beast Wars watchers coming
>after me. Seriously, it's just my opinion. If you like BW, good for you.
>If not, I think you probably grew up with Transformers and know what
>they're really all about. As for the writers of the show...I don't blame
>them. They didn't create the whole concept...or did they? In any
>case...whoever is responsible...I cringe at thee.
>
>Dano
>
>
Iggy Drougge
msipher (msi...@nando.net) wrote:
: On 3 May 1996, Iggy Drougge wrote:
: > From a religious BW fanatic: =)
: > Why doesn't any BW haters come up with any better arguments than "it
: > should be", what it should,m what it was, etc.
: Because there aren't really any other arguments. The line's quality is on
: average better than most any other toy line to date, so they can't use
: that...
Yes, but why bitch then?
: > They seem to ingore that
: > the kids did not care much for G2, cars and planes, but they care for the
: > new beasts.
: True. The old stuff just wasn't selling enough to justify continuing.
Unfortunately, it was good.
: Actually, I think that the cars/jets thing would sell if they joined with
: Lego of America and did what the Japanese line is doing...
Hmm, I don't know, look at what Byggis (Lego rip-off) did, with Super
Mario and Jurassic Park. A grand flop, they could be gotten *dirt cheap*
a year later. Might be another thing in Japan, though.
: M Sipher, samrt-assed quoteless.
I "You want fires with that?" Drougge =)
Scott Neukam
On 3 May 1996 06:01:48 GMT, you wrote:
>Okay, here we go. First, I can't really understand what it is about the
>Beast Wars that I dislike most. The writing? Nah. I can't really bag on
>the writing. I don't even watch the show..and I'm a hardcore TF fan. Why
>don't I watch it? Heh, would I watch a new Lethal Weapon movie without
>Riggs? Would I watch the new Star Wars movie if it were about nothing but
>Ewoks? My point is...what the hell are the writers thinking?? Beast Wars?
>Spare me. Slap Transformers on it, give them similar names...but kill all
>continuity by using the lame excuse that it's happening 200 years later?
First off, I haven't seen BW yet (it's not being shown here till May
21-22), but 200 years IS a little short...
>First, if you want to capture fans new and keep the fans of old you keep
>the same characters. You don't need *all* of the same characters...but
>you keep the familiarity. No, giving different characters the same names
>doesn't cut it. At least keep 'some' of the same characters. I realize
>that characters must change...but please...Beast Wars? These aren't even
>close to what Transformers should be about. We already had beasts in the
>old TF's. Predacons, Dinobots, and all of that. What makes BW so
>interesting? I think fans need the classic villains and classic heroes.
That's what they did with g2, and they didn't exactly fly off the
shelves.
>There were hundreds of untold stories left to tell about the old
>Transformers. What I see happening is the same crap that killed The
>X-Men. Hey, lets add more characters instead of expanding on the older
>ones. Before you know it, there's so many new characters that nobody
>cares anymore. New guy, new guy, new guy. It sucks. Sheesh, you'd think
>someone out there would learn by what is happening to the comic
>market...WE NEED SOME GOOD CREATORS & WRITERS. Yes, I am biased toward
>the early 80's TF and the Movie era...but it was the best...period. The
>writing was witty and inventive. Once the movie ended...things just went
>downhill. If they were anything but "beasts" though...it might work.
Personally, I think that the pre-movie episodes were better, but the
post-movie ones had HUGE possiblities, if only they had explored
certain storylines.
>Yecch! Bring back the cool machinery and the amazing cars, futuristic
>ships, vehicles & transformable weaponry. Jurassic Park is over...nobody
>cares about dinos & lizards anymore. The only reason to like Beast Wars
>is because there's nothing else out there with the name 'Transformers' on
>it. Almost a reason to purchase the toys or watch the show....almost. Uh
>oh, I better go. I see all of those religious Beast Wars watchers coming
>after me. Seriously, it's just my opinion. If you like BW, good for you.
>If not, I think you probably grew up with Transformers and know what
>they're really all about. As for the writers of the show...I don't blame
>them. They didn't create the whole concept...or did they? In any
>case...whoever is responsible...I cringe at thee.
>Dano
The writers of the show didn't create BW's Hasbro/Kenner did...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Neukam, sco...@viaduct.custom.net
Bluestreak@#transformers
"I shall strike the first blow against Unicron...
And hopefully show these idiots what to do!"
-Galvatron, TF #75
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: they are not even feature in the Collecting Toys magazine under new toys
: they weren't even at Toy Fair 96
: they are not in my Service Merchandise catalog which usually has all toys
: in it!!!
: No one advertises them for sale it is like they don't even exist!!!
That would explain the TRU ad I saw this weekend for the Deluxes.
Besides, the Beast Wars are selling quite well without a lot of hoopla in
the papers.
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: the show is called "BEAST WARS" not Transformers!! Kenner is slowly
: transforming the line into something else that does not resemble anything
: before.
Uh, no Interbot, the show is called "Beast Wars Transformers" and
so are the toys.
: OPTIMUS PRIME IS A GORRILLA !!!!!!!!!! What would King Kong say?
: Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
I think King Kong would be flattered :)
Ben "Maximize!"
ye...@is2.nyu.edu
:
: aka INTERBOT
Andrew Crane
> Yes, I am biased toward
>the early 80's TF and the Movie era...but it was the best...period. The
>writing was witty and inventive. Once the movie ended...things just went
>downhill.
> If they were anything but "beasts" though...it might work.
>ships, vehicles & transformable weaponry. Jurassic Park is over...nobody
>cares about dinos & lizards anymore. The only reason to like Beast Wars
>is because there's nothing else out there with the name 'Transformers' on
>it. Almost a reason to purchase the toys or watch the show....almost. Uh
>oh, I better go. I see all of those religious Beast Wars watchers coming
>after me. Seriously, it's just my opinion. If you like BW, good for you.
>If not, I think you probably grew up with Transformers and know what
>they're really all about. As for the writers of the show...I don't blame
>them. They didn't create the whole concept...or did they? In any
>case...whoever is responsible...I cringe at thee.
At least the original TFs had some morals: Beast Wars TFs are just
soulless fighting machines.
Andrew C
Ultimate Toys
I don't have time to reply right now to all of your comments...but you
did make at least one error. If you go back to what I said about Star
Wars...I said that if a Star Wars movie was about nothing else BUT
Ewoks...I wouldn't watch it. Please read a trite more carefully next
time. And I actually have seen Beast Wars...I just don't watch it on a
regular basis....or religiously.
Dano
Ultimate Toys
Okay, why the assumption that I don't know why Hasbro and kenner, etc are
doing their little marketing deal with TF's & Beast Wars. It's obvious
what they are doing...I'm only stating that it's stupid....whether it
makes money or not. Transformers and BW....two different things. The TF
name is there ONLY to sell the product.
Dan
Trnsfrmrs
The only thing that impressed me was the computer graphics. The thing that
really bothered me was the over use of the word prime. Does anyone see the
irony that they crashed on a strange planet and are stranded there to
fight. Hhmmm sounds familiar doesn't it? Energon is a pink energy
substance derived from sources of energy. What I gather Soundwave invented
energon cubes when they crashed on Earth. How about after the 1st failing
season that I predict the go back to vehicle modes. I really don't think
kids are that interested in animal forms. Then why do they like Power
Rangers? They are robot-like. How about some new current car modes lilke
Dodge Vipers, Toyota Supras, Lambourghini Diablos, etc. Does anyone know
what their robot modes were before they crashed?
I'm sure they would not have changed their entire names after they
crashed. Come on let's get back on the real TRANSFORMER track. I thought
they were going to make the same computer graphics like they showed in the
rerun G2 series into a new series this fall. Now I am really disappointed
that they didn't. I believe this is just to sell the toys & not to have a
successful TV series.
aka INTERBOT
See you at BOTCON 96!!!
Trnsfrmrs
Oh Beast Wars Transformers. I didn't see the fine print.
Fill in your name here
Ultimate Toys (ult...@mail.inreach.com) wrote:
: Okay, why the assumption that I don't know why Hasbro and kenner, etc are
Why is it stupid? You're not making sense. You say you
understand that Hasbro and Kenner are using a marketing tactic to sell
Beast Wars TF's (and YES, they ARE Transformers) yet you say it's stupid.
Well, maybe you didn't realize that Hasbro and Kenner exist to make money?
They do and that's what Beast Wars is doing for them so it's not stupid,
it makes perfect sense. As for the TF name there to sell the product,
well, there's two takes on this:
a. Yes the TF name is selling the product. These are 'Robots in
Disguise' and 'More than meets the eye!'. They fit the criteria for TF's
in the toy world.
b. In the fiction they are TF's as well. Robotic entities that have
adapted to an environment by creating alternate forms that they can
convert into. Two sides exist at war with each other, sound familiar?
Fill in your name here
Scott Neukam (sco...@viaduct.custom.net) wrote:
: On 3 May 1996 06:01:48 GMT, you wrote:
:
:
: First off, I haven't seen BW yet (it's not being shown here till May
: 21-22), but 200 years IS a little short...
Take into consideration the 21 year span between the old series
and the movie and look at THOSE changes. 200 years isn't a little piece
of time, a LOT can happen in that time. Add a few more years and look at
"Rebirth", just a few more years and Cybertronians are merging with
Nebulans! That's quite a change too.
Fill in your name here
Andrew Crane (and...@pg-drive.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <4mc7gc$r7@news>, Ultimate Toys <ult...@mail.inreach.com>
: I agree. Too many new characters.
: At least the original TFs had some morals: Beast Wars TFs are just
: soulless fighting machines.
: Andrew C
first started, they were fighting machines too and there were MANY more of
them than the Beast Wars. The initial BW assortment is 10 characters (not
including the McBeasts) and there are maybe about (let's see, quick count)
9 more characters coming out. So that's 19 characters or so. Now the
original line had, let's see (more counting) 28 characters (not including
the ones from the mail order offers). Even though NOW we know Optimus and
the gang, back then the TF's were ALL new.
As for 'souless', let's see, we've got:
Dinobot - The honorable, but power hungry warrior.
Optimus Primal - The young up and coming leader who is still maturing.
Rhinox - Old and reliable Maximal warrior.
Rattrap - Smart mouthed and generally against fighting but cute.
Megatron - A bit arrogant but still in search of galactic power.
Tarantulus - The skilled Predacon with a few quarts low in the head.
For two initial episodes, it's not a bad start and I hardly regard
these characterizations as 'souless'. Just my .02348 cents.
JKierst920
In article <4mg4q8$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, trns...@aol.com
(Trnsfrmrs) writes:
>
>the show is called "BEAST WARS" not Transformers!! Kenner is slowly
>transforming the line into something else that does not resemble anything
>before.
>
Well, no. Kenner had nothing to do with it. Hasbro already had the BW
stuff slated to go. Kenner, instead of wasting a ton of money (which is
the last thing any corporation wants to do) they ran with. Personally, I
think the BW stuff is coming along nicley. I was one of those people who
saw the initial post about BW and started groaning and complaing too.
However, now that the ball is rolling, I'm running with it. Not getting
run over by it. The preview, IMHO, was great. It adds some depth as to
what's happened, and Mr. Ditillio added what's going to happen. Be patient
if you don't like it. I'm sure you'll see soem familiar stuff sooner or
later. And, if I may add one more point, the show and toy line are not
aimed at us, they're aimed at 5 to 10 year olds who probaly have never
heard of Transformers before BW.
>OPTIMUS PRIME IS A GORRILLA !!!!!!!!!! What would King Kong say?
>Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
>
>aka INTERBOT
>
Have you seen the show yet? Even Primal wasn't too pleased about his ape
form at first.
Just my .02 on the defense of Beast Wars!
JKierst920 - "Terrorize!"
+-------------------------------------------+
| John Kierstead |
| JKier...@aol.com |
| http://users.aol.com/JKierst920/1985.html |
| Transformer Collector! |
+===========================================+
Fill in your name here
Ultimate Toys (ult...@mail.inreach.com) wrote:
: I don't have time to reply right now to all of your comments...but you
Sorry, your post was long and some things slip by sometimes. As
for watching it on a regular basis, that would be neat because it doesn't
air until September.
msipher
On 5 May 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> : they are not even feature in the Collecting Toys magazine under new toys
Do you realize just how many new toys in America there are? Besides, if
I'm thinking of the right magazine here, Collecting Toys' TF coverage has
been somewhat lacking...
> : they weren't even at Toy Fair 96
Really? Then I guess that two-page spread in Tomart's #30 is just a
figment of a lot of imaginations...
> : they are not in my Service Merchandise catalog which usually has all toys
> : in it!!!
... Service Merchandise has been cutting back on their toy stock steadily
in the past year. There are three SMs within reasonable driving distance,
and all three of them have only one half-aisle for action figures.
> : No one advertises them for sale it is like they don't even exist!!!
A LOT of toy lines don't get advertising. Aparently, BW doesn't NEED
advertising, they seem to be selling rather well.
> That would explain the TRU ad I saw this weekend for the Deluxes.
> Besides, the Beast Wars are selling quite well without a lot of hoopla in
> the papers.
Really? I haven't been keeping up with the crap that falls out of my
Sunday newspaper lately...
M "IT'S NOT A DAMN TRIPLE-DECKER PIZZA! IT ONLY HAS TWO LAYERS!!!" Sipher
JKierst920
In article <4mh56n$j...@news.nyu.edu>, ye...@is2.nyu.edu (Fill in your name
here) writes:
>
>Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
>: they are not even feature in the Collecting Toys magazine under new
toys
>: they weren't even at Toy Fair 96
>: they are not in my Service Merchandise catalog which usually has all
toys
>: in it!!!
>: No one advertises them for sale it is like they don't even exist!!!
>
> That would explain the TRU ad I saw this weekend for the Deluxes.
>Besides, the Beast Wars are selling quite well without a lot of hoopla in
>the papers.
>
>Ben
>ye...@is2.nyu.edu
>
>
I saw this ad, in fact I saved it. Something to add to the purity test?
"Do you save Transformer ads in the paper?"
msipher
On 5 May 1996, Ultimate Toys wrote:
> I don't have time to reply right now to all of your comments...but you
> did make at least one error. If you go back to what I said about Star
> Wars...I said that if a Star Wars movie was about nothing else BUT
> Ewoks...I wouldn't watch it. Please read a trite more carefully next
> time.
Well, that doesn't actually make his arguments less valid in any way,
shaoe or form.
> And I actually have seen Beast Wars...I just don't watch it on a
> regular basis....or religiously.
Nobody does. That was just the pilot show, a special preview before it
airs regularly in September.
M "Hey! My Ear Has Finally Stopped Ringing!" Sipher
msipher
On 4 May 1996, Iggy Drougge wrote:
> : > From a religious BW fanatic: =)
> : > Why doesn't any BW haters come up with any better arguments than "it
> : > should be", what it should,m what it was, etc.
>
> : Because there aren't really any other arguments. The line's quality is on
> : average better than most any other toy line to date, so they can't use
> : that...
>
> Yes, but why bitch then?
I have no idea. Lack of patience?
> : True. The old stuff just wasn't selling enough to justify continuing.
>
> Unfortunately, it was good.
Too little too late. The Laser Rods and Rotor Force should have been in
the first batch, quickly followed up with the Go-Bots (just the first
six), then the Cyberjets and Dreadwing... oh well.
> : Actually, I think that the cars/jets thing would sell if they joined with
> : Lego of America and did what the Japanese line is doing...
>
> Hmm, I don't know, look at what Byggis (Lego rip-off) did, with Super
> Mario and Jurassic Park. A grand flop, they could be gotten *dirt cheap*
> a year later. Might be another thing in Japan, though.
I'm afraid I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I mean, I
get the general *idea*, but I've never heard of Byggis.
I'm judging by the o-fficcial Lego line this year. These are some *nice*
sets. With the space sets alone, a Hasbro/Lego team-up could make some
big money... it's also one helluva pipe dream.
But I'm guessing that the Block Town TFs are going to go over pretty well
in Japan... provided they make some larger sets...
> I "You want fires with that?" Drougge =)
I am pleased to report that I have noticed a real decrease in fast-food
employees asking if I want stuff I didn't ask for. While this is less
annoyance for me, I do kinda think it means that they might not care
about actually getting my order right...
M "Parts Is Parts" Sipher
Iggy Drougge
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: Also my sister doesn't like them either she is just 7 yrs old & thinks
: they aren't real TFs. She also has her own TF collection (takes after her
: brothers :-)
Being indoctrinated by you, it comes as no surprise, actually.
--
____ ____ ____ __ ____ ____ ____ __ ____ __ __ ____
/ // . //_ //_// \ / / // _ / /_ \ __ /_ / /_/ / \ / . /
/ / // __/ / // // / / // / //\ \/ __/ / \/ / __/ / / / / / / __/
/___//_/ /_//_//_/_/_/ \__//___/ /___/ /___/ /_/ /_/_/ /___/
SUZANNE M FERREE
Ultimate Toys (ult...@mail.inreach.com) wrote:
: Okay, here we go. First, I can't really understand what it is about the
: the writing. I don't even watch the show..and I'm a hardcore TF fan. Why
|sf>It's only had a 2 show preview, so it's pretty hard to generalize
right now. I mean, look at "More than Meets the Eye." While that's good
bordering on "ok," it's no where near on my top 10 list of favorite eps.
If you didn't even watch the preview of the show, then that tells me
that it's not the show that you're having a problem with; it's Hasbro's
concept of Beast Wars in general.
: don't I watch it? Heh, would I watch a new Lethal Weapon movie without
: Riggs? Would I watch the new Star Wars movie if it were about nothing but
: Ewoks? My point is...what the hell are the writers thinking?? Beast Wars?
There was a Star Wars thing w/ only the Ewoks--it was a Saturday
morning cartoon show...and it ran for more than 1 season.
: Spare me. Slap Transformers on it, give them similar names...but kill all
: continuity by using the lame excuse that it's happening 200 years later?
They aren't killing *all* the continuity. Point 1, in the
cartoon, Scorpinok did not have a brain...instead his "mind" was the
nebulon Lord Zarek. Well, obviously within the 200 years, Lord Zarek
must have died. Obviously, Scorpinok got some sort of mind since
then--however, Scorpinok seems totally loyal w/o much of a personality.
(And Scorpinok's overall body has only been modified a little bit from
the looks of it). Therefore, there's the 1st link to continuity.
Point 2, the guy on here has said that Autobots & Decepticons
still exist...it's just in much smaller numbers. For all we know,
Maximals & Preds could have existed during the Cybertronian wars and
they might have been little factions. We don't know yet how that's
giong to link up. Remember, the original cartoon was (w/ the exception
of possibly "Warworld" & "Megatron's Master Plan") shown from a mostly
human & Autobot point of view. Granted, from the looks of the first eps,
the point of view isn't going to change, but the human factor will
probably be out of there (except for the impact that humans had on
Cybertronian culture).
: First, if you want to capture fans new and keep the fans of old you keep
: the same characters. You don't need *all* of the same characters...but
: you keep the familiarity. No, giving different characters the same names
: doesn't cut it. At least keep 'some' of the same characters. I realize
: that characters must change...but please...Beast Wars? These aren't even
How did you feel about Bumblebee -> Goldbug? I don't know about
you, but to me I felt cheapened & that was when he started to no longer
became a favorite of mine anymore.
From e-mail, I already know how you feel about Starscream as
a ghost. Personally, Starscream as a ghost made me enjoy him even more.
In either case, fooling around w/ old characters can be a
sticky business...and do we even know how many eps of the old series
that the new writers have seen? Would you trust your favorite TFs
to the hands of someone who'd only seen, say, 5 or 10 eps?
: close to what Transformers should be about. We already had beasts in the
: old TF's. Predacons, Dinobots, and all of that. What makes BW so
: interesting? I think fans need the classic villains and classic heroes.
Well, BW is ok. Toy-wise, they don't break as easily as the old
ones. The Deluxe ones are also as complex as the classics & they aren't
made of really cheap plastic (unlike most of the Rotor Force & water TFs).
: There were hundreds of untold stories left to tell about the old
: Transformers. What I see happening is the same crap that killed The
That's why some of us write Fanfic. No matter what Hasbro
(or Kenner starting next year) comes up w/, no one can force you
to change your love of the original eps.
: X-Men. Hey, lets add more characters instead of expanding on the older
: ones. Before you know it, there's so many new characters that nobody
: cares anymore. New guy, new guy, new guy. It sucks. Sheesh, you'd think
Actually, IMO what has killed the TV X-Men show is they didn't
leave any mystery in the show at all! I mean, they explained everything!
What's the fun of watching a show when it doesn't give you a chance
to leave *anything* to the imagination.
: someone out there would learn by what is happening to the comic
: market...WE NEED SOME GOOD CREATORS & WRITERS. Yes, I am biased toward
: the early 80's TF and the Movie era...but it was the best...period. The
Well, personally I disagree. Yes, I like a larger percentage
of the pre-movie eps than the post-movie eps. However, there were
65 pre-movie eps vs. around 35 post-movie eps. Let's assume that
you hated 5 pre-movie eps & 5 post-movie eps. Hating the 5
post-movie eps (especially if it's FFoD >:) ) is a bigger percentage
of the total number of eps. Therefore, it's not quite equal.
: writing was witty and inventive. Once the movie ended...things just went
: downhill. If they were anything but "beasts" though...it might work.
This might sound like "unloyalty to TFs," but I'd have to say that
the combination of "Starscream's Brigade," "The Revenge of Bructicus,"
"Starscream's Ghost," and "Ghost in the Machine" are better--and
more of a unified continuity--than Transformers the Movie. I have
nothing against the movie. It's just that I prefer to judge an
episode on its merit instead of judging it by what season it was in,
by who wrote it, or any of that statistical junk.
True, I'm going to miss Starscream & that isn't going to
change no matter how many new episodes or how many new characters
come along. To me, Starscream is not expendable. No character
is EVER going to replace Starscream to me. Same general thing goes
for Grimlock without a doubt (however, to less of a degree). Dinobot
is no Starscream (even though he has a slight resemblance of voice)
and neither is he Grimlock. However, no one is telling me that just
because I watch the Beast Wars TFs means that a character HAS to
replace Starscream or Grimlock! That's the point!
I'd probably also put Mindwipe and Seaspray into a reduced
"irreplaceable" category (well, w/o a doubt Mindwipe). See, I can
have other favorite characters (although none of the Beast Wars
have really "caught" me yet the way that Mindwipe did in just the
3 eps of "The Rebirth"...Mindwipe is fun in the Japanese eps too. :) ).
However, who said the Beast Wars have to replace my fav characters?
No one...but it wouldn't hurt if one or more ended up supplimenting
my group of favorite characters. :)
: Yecch! Bring back the cool machinery and the amazing cars, futuristic
: ships, vehicles & transformable weaponry. Jurassic Park is over...nobody
Well, I don't like it when *any* one toy type dominates
TFs. I like balance. Now you know in part what I felt like when
there were only the remolds of G1s (which I liked), the water squirters,
etc. & the Dinobots & Scorpia were the only animal TFs. Although
Jurassic Park is over, the popularity of Primal Rage has just
begun (which is probably why Hasbro renamed OP -> Optimus Primal...see?).
Those toys are flying off the shelves just like the TF Beast Wars.
(and they're kind of copying the old diclone men IMO w/ tiny figures that
come along w/ the dinos).
: cares about dinos & lizards anymore. The only reason to like Beast Wars
On the countrary...next time you're at a store, try to find
the Primal Rage figures. Chances are, they'll be sold out. Someone
must be buying them...they aren't disappearing off the shelves by
themselves. I've only seen them at 1 store & that's because they
weren't put in the action figure isle.
: is because there's nothing else out there with the name 'Transformers' on
: it. Almost a reason to purchase the toys or watch the show....almost. Uh
: oh, I better go. I see all of those religious Beast Wars watchers coming
Religious? How could anyone be a "religious Beast Wars watcher"
when there have only been 2 eps so far (& there won't be any more until
fall)? The graphics are just amazing, but I still wouldn't use the
word "religious."
: after me. Seriously, it's just my opinion. If you like BW, good for you.
: If not, I think you probably grew up with Transformers and know what
: they're really all about. As for the writers of the show...I don't blame
*sigh* To each their own...It's like trying a new recipe: you
have to actually sample it before you know if you like it or not.
For example, I like Froot Loops better than any other cereal (just
like the TF cartoons are the best of the best). That doesn't mean
that Froot Loops are the only cereal I ever eat--if that were true,
I'd get sick of them after about 3 boxes in a row. It takes a little
bit of alternating (which sometimes means trying new cereals) to
give me a slight break. TF Beast Wars is just like another "break."
Headmasters was a break and Action Masters, etc. for others who were
still able to stick around. Just like not all cereals are the same
(for example, I hate Cocoa Puffs--but that's because I tried the
cereal and hated it.), not all TFs are the same.
: them. They didn't create the whole concept...or did they? In any
: case...whoever is responsible...I cringe at thee.
Blame Hasbro then. Kenner gets their entire "brand new" crack
at it next year. The writers played w/ the hand that they were
dealt w/ by Hasbro...
--
Suzanne Ferree (an alt.toys.transformers fan)
E-mail: sfe...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu
or: ev...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
or: s...@grex.cyberspace.org
Brent David Stocking
In a previous article, opt...@canit.se (Iggy Drougge) says:
>: On 3 May 1996, Iggy Drougge wrote:
>
>I "You want fires with that?" Drougge =)
Nah, but I'll take some fries. :)
-brent, wondering why Beavis hasn't thought of that quote yet...
--
I B: Brent Stocking : "You live and learn. At any rate, you live."
BGSU undergrad dude : -Douglas Adams
ResAccess labb ratt : ->*<-
Northwest Ohio, USA : http://pizza.bgsu.edu/~brents/temp.html
The Nixtr
Quoting:
Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
Response: Beastbox.
--
The Nixtr *** Transformer fan ***
Abortionists make a killing in the market !
SCAM ARTIST: Karb...@mail.dwx.com (he's a liar, theif, cheat)
Not for the normal: http://www.acy.digex.net/~thenixtr/nick0000.html
The Nixtr
I hope these aren't all the same guys who hate the GEN 2 comic, those who
love BW.
Iggy Drougge
Ultimate Toys (ult...@mail.inreach.com) wrote:
: Okay, why the assumption that I don't know why Hasbro and kenner, etc are
: doing their little marketing deal with TF's & Beast Wars. It's obvious
: what they are doing...I'm only stating that it's stupid....whether it
: makes money or not. Transformers and BW....two different things. The TF
: name is there ONLY to sell the product.
That has been the case ever since TFs started, the TF naje is there to
sell the toys, no matter what they transform into. If it makes money and
makes the kids happy, is it stupid then?
--
__ ____ ____ ____ __ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____
/_/ / __/ / __/ / / / / \ / . / / / / / / / __/ / __/ / __/
/ / / / / / / / _\ / __ / / / / _/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / __/
/_/ /___/ /___/ /___/ /_/ /___/ /_/_/ /___/ /___/ /___/ /___/ /___/
Iggy Drougge
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: they are not even feature in the Collecting Toys magazine under new toys
: they weren't even at Toy Fair 96
: they are not in my Service Merchandise catalog which usually has all toys
: in it!!!
: No one advertises them for sale it is like they don't even exist!!!
Yet they sell like hot butter in the sun!
: BTW Kenner is a subsidiary of Hasbro
Of course it is. Everything is.
Dirge
trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) writes:
-> the show is called "BEAST WARS" not Transformers!! Kenner is slowly
-> transforming the line into something else that does not resemble anything
-> before.
They still have transforming robots, and the TF log on the cards.
-> OPTIMUS PRIME IS A GORRILLA !!!!!!!!!! What would King Kong say?
-> Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
It's not Optimus Prime. 'that cassette' is called Beastbox.
Darren, feeding bananas to a tanker truck (:
msipher
On 8 May 1996, Ivy Bohnlein wrote:
> What would King Kong say?
>
> : Nothing. He's dead.
>
> And if he weren't dead, the rest of the world's gorillas would have him
> tied up in court with a gratuitous slander and libel suit.
That and Issac Asimov and his sideburns would have his butt on charges of
breaking the laws of physics. (And, as Tom Servo has pointed out, physics
has yet to legitimize the existance of Issac Asimov's sideburns.)
> : > Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
>
> : Aaaaaaand? So what?
>
> Okay, getting back up on my soapbox...
It's good exercise.
> Gorillas are one of the strongest land mammals in the world, highly
> intelligent, and very gentle unless threatened. They form very tight
> family units and protect each other ferociously. If there is *any*
> animal on earth with the qualities that Optimus fans identify with
> the original Optimus Prime, it would be the gorilla. They are very
> noble, intelligent, and protective of what they care about.
I'm not arguing at all with Optimus Primate. I think it's a good form for
this new Optimus. Loads better than the bat.
Although, it is hard to resist jokes about doody-flinging.
> And ease up with the name recycling complaints - they're just protecting
> their copyright. It's better than having their rights to the names
> expire and seeing them recycled into characters on some other terrible
> show.
Eeek. There's a disturbing thought... and like I said before, wouldn't it
be worse if the only tie to the old series was just the label? Having OP
& Megs come on over brings at least SOME familiarity to the series...
even if they're not the exact same characters, we do know generally what
to expect from them.
Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure now that that was the entire point
of the "classic" Go-Bots and Cyberjets...
M "Impish Yodel Varnish Undergraduate Olive" Sipher
Ivy Bohnlein
msipher (msi...@nando.net) wrote:
: On 4 May 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
: > OPTIMUS PRIME IS A GORRILLA !!!!!!!!!!
[And Interbot is a troll :)]
What would King Kong say?
: Nothing. He's dead.
And if he weren't dead, the rest of the world's gorillas would have him
tied up in court with a gratuitous slander and libel suit.
: > Besides both TF gorillas were decepticons Apeface & that cassette
: Aaaaaaand? So what?
Okay, getting back up on my soapbox...
Gorillas are one of the strongest land mammals in the world, highly
intelligent, and very gentle unless threatened. They form very tight
family units and protect each other ferociously. If there is *any*
animal on earth with the qualities that Optimus fans identify with
the original Optimus Prime, it would be the gorilla. They are very
noble, intelligent, and protective of what they care about.
And ease up with the name recycling complaints - they're just protecting
their copyright. It's better than having their rights to the names
expire and seeing them recycled into characters on some other terrible
show.
Ivy
--
===================== Bohn...@acmelabs.uhc.asu.edu =====================
"Christmas is killing. Killing is carnage. Christmas is carnage!"
"Well, 'the way things are' stinks!" -- Ferdinand the Duck
= Whiz = Tempest = TF 2005 MUSH! aptlabta.wpi.edu 5555 = Atlatl = Tytania =
Trnsfrmrs
Selling like hot butter? Prove it!
Trnsfrmrs
It is not Optimus Prime it is Optimus Primal
the Donkey Kong version
& since when did the Auto... I mean Maximals get a Starscream version ie
rattrap
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: energon cubes when they crashed on Earth. How about after the 1st failing
: season that I predict the go back to vehicle modes. I really don't think
: kids are that interested in animal forms. Then why do they like Power
: Rangers? They are robot-like.
So far, fan reaction seems to be fairly positive to Beast Wars so
I don't see a failing first season. As for animal forms not being
popular, uh, HELLO, most of the initial Power Ranger toys (and even some
of the current ones) WERE animals and creatures. As I recall, there have
been T-Rexes, a Tricerotops, a Pterodactyl, a bird (the one in the movie)
a frog, a bear, a wolf should I go on?
How about some new current car modes lilke
: Dodge Vipers, Toyota Supras, Lambourghini Diablos, etc. Does anyone know
: what their robot modes were before they crashed?
Well, the thing is dude that Hasbro spent the past four years
(since the beginning of Generation 2) using the old 'vehicle and robot'
formula and it DIDN'T sell. Now that they've jumped on the animal band
wagon, TF's are selling. You do the math, and keep in mind, ultimately,
Hasbro and Kenner are in it for the money, not the adoration of us long
time fans.
: rerun G2 series into a new series this fall. Now I am really disappointed
: that they didn't. I believe this is just to sell the toys & not to have a
: successful TV series.
The G2 series was NOT one of the shining moments in TF history
IMHO, others might agree or disagree but I expected a whole new series and
what we got instead was old recycled eps with a bit of computer animation.
I think Beast Wars, being FULLY computer animated is much better. But
that's just me.
Ben "Maximize!"
ye...@is2.nyu.edu
:
: aka INTERBOT
Trnsfrmrs
Yes but Power ranger forms look more like robots
aka INTERBOT
See you at BOTCON 96!!!
Message found on most TF boxes: "Extreme force is not necassary." (but
sometimes useful)
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: Selling like hot butter? Prove it!
:
One local store near my house got in their first shipment of Beast
Wars about oh, three months ago. They ordered two boxes of the two pack,
deluxes, and the small BW. ALL of them sold within two weeks (much to my
chagrin). After that, they reordered the next week (don't ask me how they
got stock that quickly) and this time it was just an order of the two
pack. That sold out in three days! Then, two weeks ago, they got yet,
another shipment in of deluxes, two packs and small BW and THOSE sold
within a week (in fact they just got a new shipment in yesterday). Now,
what you have to understand is, this store still has Cyberjets on it's
rack. Now, I'm not saying that Cyberjets are bad, but the BW are going
fast and there is NO other line that moves as quickly. Star Wars, well,
people buy the 'hot' figures and there are about 3 pegs of Chewbaccas and
R2-D2's and Han Solo figures. Spawn, well, the Maxx and the Cy-Gors
disappear and everything else languishes.
On to another small store example. This one is near my college.
It's a small toy store in New York's rich, totally over priced Lexington
Avenue. They had only a box of the small BW but were asking $9 EACH and
they sold in two weeks! Yes, all of them at $9 a pop!
On to bigger examples. The TRU near my house got their initial
shipment of BW shortly after the first store I mentioned and they sold out
of at least three to four boxes of EACH BW assortment in ONE week. They
have gotten new stock at least four times since then (about four to six
boxes of each assortment at a time) and have sold out repeatedly (BTW, the
Primal/Meggy two pack seems to go first). Here's a more personal example
(one I was directly involved in). One Saturday morning, I waltzed into
this TRU and the stock boys were putting up a BUNCH of toys including at
least six boxes of Deluxe Beast Wars. Ecstatic, I grabbed my Cheetors
(one for coming out, one for keeping in you know) and skipped merrily down
the isles seeing peg after peg of BW packing the shelves. I left and
returned to the store later that evening (say sixish) to pick up another
Cheetor. Heck, I thought, there were a dozen of these guys, there's got
to be ONE left! Nope. The store looked like a bomb hit it and vaporized
most of the Beast Wars toys. Only Waspinator and Tarantulus and the
occasional Dinobot could be found. Also, whereas earlier in the morning
the BW took up most of the shelves in one isle, by this time, they only
took up maybe four or five. Apparantly, they had also opened up a few
boxes of small BW after I left because I saw a couple Terrorsaurs and
Rattraps strewn about the shelves.
I've got about a half dozen other examples but I think the point
of this post is made, Beast Wars is selling. Proof is determined by
sights like what I describe above. Also, I have not seen stores reorder
TF's constantly like this in ages. Also, the enthusiasm kids show when
they see BW and their eyes light up while yelling "Mommy! I don't have
this one, I want it! Can I open it now?" is a good sign I'd say.
**********************************************
*Name: Benson "Ironfire" Yee *
*a.k.a. Wonko the Sane *
*e-mail: ye...@is2.nyu.edu *
******************************************
*Transformers web page: *
*http://pages.nyu.edu/~yeebe/trans.htm *
***************************************
"A treacherous, underhanded sneak attack! Ho, ho, ho, I like you
pussycat, yes!"
-Beast Wars Megatron
: aka INTERBOT
Raksha
In article <4mghpl$q...@uno.canit.se>, Iggy Drougge <opt...@canit.se> wrote:
>: > should be", what it should,m what it was, etc.
>
>: Because there aren't really any other arguments. The line's quality is on
>: average better than most any other toy line to date, so they can't use
>: that...
>
>Yes, but why bitch then?
As someone who does her fair share of bitching, I certainly have to defend
people's right to bitch -- and I do understand where they're coming from when
they complain about BW. I've come to like the toys a lot myself -- this latest
batch with Snapper, Insecticon, and Armordillo, is really fantastic, especially
those first two -- but I can see how the whole concept goes against some
people's cherished idea of what a Transformer "ought" to be. No matter how
great the toys are, it's hard to overcome the hurdle of how they've messed up
the story and names. And if it hits close to a concept that people especially
treasure -- messing with the "high and holy" image of Prime, for instance, or
in my case with the image of Megatron -- it can create a bias right from the
start that makes it hard to appreciate the good aspects.
At the same time, I keep trying to point out that there's a big difference
between saying "I hate Beast Wars" and "Beast Wars SUCKS!" One is a statement
of opinion, which everyone's entitled to. The other is an opinion presented as
a fact, which it isn't. Even worse, it often bleeds over into the idea that
there must be something wrong with the people who do like BW -- when the whole
thing, like so much else, is totally subjective. I mean, I hate Headmasters,
for instance, and I've often said so ... but I don't think I've ever come out
and made a blanket statement like "Headmasters suck!" ... Okay, I may have --
but you guys would have every right to call me on it if I had. Nothing wrong
with stating your opinion, even if it's a totally negative one -- but remember
that it *is* just your opinion, and there will be people who do like the
product, and that's perfectly fine also....
--Raksha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soundwave@2005 MUSH: "The secrets of the Universe reveal themselves
to those who listen."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Dept. of Zoology, OSU
Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/1139
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raksha
In article <4mq7gg$9...@news.nyu.edu>,
Fill in your name here <ye...@is2.nyu.edu> wrote:
>Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
>: energon cubes when they crashed on Earth. How about after the 1st failing
>: season that I predict the go back to vehicle modes. I really don't think
>: kids are that interested in animal forms. Then why do they like Power
>: Rangers? They are robot-like.
>
> So far, fan reaction seems to be fairly positive to Beast Wars so
>I don't see a failing first season. As for animal forms not being
>popular, uh, HELLO, most of the initial Power Ranger toys (and even some
>of the current ones) WERE animals and creatures. As I recall, there have
>been T-Rexes, a Tricerotops, a Pterodactyl, a bird (the one in the movie)
>a frog, a bear, a wolf should I go on?
I agree, animal forms, especially large predators or prehistoric species, *are*
a big deal with kids right now. I can hardly complain about that! :) Add to
that, that the BW toys are of tremendously better quality than the animal forms
in other robot lines, and I can see why they've become really popular with the
kids. If there's already a market for animal forms, and someone comes along
and corrects some of the glaring mistakes of the existing versions, making it
many times more realistic and poseable, it would be surprising if the line
*didn't* sell.
Would be nice, of course, if Hasbro had kept their facts straight about
the animal forms and tried to match them up with their actual lifestyles and
abilities. I still can't get over the cheetah as a "jungle patroller", for
instance, or that totally fabricated lizard they threw together for Iguanus.
But such is the level of Hasbro's "intelligence." The producers of the cartoon
have done a lot better in this department, and here I really have to give them
a lot of credit. There's a great scene near the beginning, when the
Decepticons are scanning the area to find suitable forms for their new bodies,
and you see the beam pass over a wasp facing down a tarantula. That's an
actual ecological interaction (you probably don't want to know what the wasp
does with the tarantula if it manages to win the encounter -- probably the most
gruesome death I can picture), and it wasn't lost on me. A very nice touch!!
--Raksha
("Raksha Terrorize"?? Well, maybe not quite *yet*....)
Andrew Crane
In article <4mjd5f$7...@news.nyu.edu>, Fill in your name here
<ye...@is2.nyu.edu> writes
> *Choke* *Uck* Too MANY new characters?
writers tried to cope well though. Many of the weaker characters were
fodder to warfare or not implemented. The original characters were very
strong, that`s why Hasbro revived Op, Jazz, Grimlock, Bumblebee,
Starscream, Megatron, etc so many times. It`s a shame though that some
great originals were never updated. I do find it unusual though that
many characters that Hasbro forgot about became vital main characters in
the comic, i.e Bludgeon, Shockers, Thunderwing and Soundwave.
By the way, did they make a G2 cartoon? (If so, was it any good??)
Europe has been abandoned of TF related things for years, now.
(Our G2 comic lasted *4*[!] issues, was NOT by Marvel and had crappy
UK written wimpy scripts in with censored Simon Furman ones. They HAD to
aim it at kids, didn`t they? The cretins.)
--
Andrew C
Dirge
trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) writes:
<latest spam deleted>
Look dude, I don't mind you hating beast Wars. I don't mind you arguing
your point, but all these one-lined 'beast wars suck' are starting to
resemble a spamming to me. I've got no problem with you telling us you
hate the things, but I'd really rather you do so in one long post than 17
short ones.
-> aka INTERBOT
-> See you at BOTCON 96!!!
-> Message found on most TF boxes: "Extreme force is not necassary." (but
-> sometimes useful)
Darren, really hates having to ask ):
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: It is not Optimus Prime it is Optimus Primal
: the Donkey Kong version
LOL! Donkey Kong, that's a good one! I've got to admit, you've
finally amused me with a criticism Interbot. If you think calling him
Donkey Kong is a bad thing, well, with the release of the kick ass Donkey
Kong Country games, I'd call it a compliment!
: & since when did the Auto... I mean Maximals get a Starscream version ie
: rattrap
:
The Autobots are not the same group as the Maximals dude. The
Autobots and Decepticons still exist on Cybertron and live with the
Predacons and Maximals on the old homeworld. As for Rattrap being
Starscream, HOW do you figure that?
Rattrap was insubordinate BUT he has NO interest in killing Primal
and taking over the Maximal leadership. He seems more like a civilian
Maximal who's stuck with a group of warriors (or military troops) in a war
situation when he was only intent on doing deep space exploration. If I
was stuck in that situation, I'd be pretty p.o.'d too (or scared to death,
hmmmm...food for thought). Also, since he's the smallest, maybe he's
compensating? Napolean complex perhaps? Except I think he's tough enough
to pull it off, when he jumped Dinobot, that was something!
Rattrap is also loyal to his friends. Starscream didn't seem to
have too many of those. When Dinobot nearly hurt Rhinox, did you see how
he reacted? Seems like he showed loyalty there.
Did you watch the show dude? Oh wait, you said you did...sorry.
**********************************************
*Name: Benson "Ironfire" Yee *
*a.k.a. Wonko the Sane *
*e-mail: ye...@is2.nyu.edu *
******************************************
*Transformers web page: *
*http://pages.nyu.edu/~yeebe/trans.htm *
***************************************
"A treacherous, underhanded sneak attack! Ho, ho, ho, I like you
pussycat, yes!"
-Beast Wars Megatron
: aka INTERBOT
:
: See you at BOTCON 96!!!
Iggy Drougge
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
Interbot, please quote! It's seldom that one knows what you are talking
about.
: Yes but Power ranger forms look more like robots
They look like robotic animals, BW look like animalic robots, but both
seem to sell. Robotic robots did not. It must be the animals, then...
Fill in your name here
Yes, but that wasn't the point. They were animals and beasts,
simple as that. Also, in terms of sales, I noticed that when new Power
Ranger products come out, they sell at first but then languish nowadays.
Some of the newer stuff looks more like mechanical devices (the pyramid,
the wheel, about two of the parts for the new giant Zord) and it just
doesn't seem to be as impressive as the original set, heck, I was more
impressed with the original set than the new ones.
Point here being (just get to it already right folks?, I know...I
know...) the er, 'animal magnetism' of toys that are animals AND something
else (robots for instance) is undeniable right now, and I for one am happy
about that! :-)
Ratbat
On Fri, 10 May 1996, Andrew Crane wrote:
> In article <4mjd5f$7...@news.nyu.edu>, Fill in your name here
> <ye...@is2.nyu.edu> writes
> > *Choke* *Uck* Too MANY new characters?
> I meant that the original TF toy-line had too many characters. The comic
> writers tried to cope well though. Many of the weaker characters were
> fodder to warfare or not implemented. The original characters were very
> strong, that`s why Hasbro revived Op, Jazz, Grimlock, Bumblebee,
> Starscream, Megatron, etc so many times. It`s a shame though that some
> great originals were never updated. I do find it unusual though that
> many characters that Hasbro forgot about became vital main characters in
> the comic, i.e Bludgeon, Shockers, Thunderwing and Soundwave.
> By the way, did they make a G2 cartoon? (If so, was it any good??)
Yes, but it wasn't new stuff. It was old episodes repackaged. A good way
to see old stores (finally saw NIGHTBIRD the other day!), but they were
covered with really annoying CGI 'enhancements'.
> Europe has been abandoned of TF related things for years, now.
> (Our G2 comic lasted *4*[!] issues, was NOT by Marvel and had crappy
> UK written wimpy scripts in with censored Simon Furman ones. They HAD to
> aim it at kids, didn`t they? The cretins.)
I keep hearing about this beast, but I am yet to see it. I'd never heard
of the Simon stuff being censored, though. What kind of things did they
cut or change or whatever?
Urac 'Ratbat' Sigma, looking for a JEM AND THE HOLOGRAMS page, of all
things...
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 'Normal is what everyone else is, and you are not.' |
| - Dr Tolian Soran |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Urac 'Ratbat' Sigma, E-mail me on u96...@student.canberra.edu.au |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Gyumaoh
What bothers me about Beast Wars is how it has strayed from the source
material. Through all the Pretenders and Action Masters and all the
Japanese series, one thing has remained the same: Autobots vs.
Decepticons.
Yes, Beast Wars has transforming robots fighting each other. So what? So
did the Gobots. So did (and does) hundreds of other TV shows in Japan.
I think the Star Trek people made the same mistake with DS9 and Voyager.
Classic Trek & TNG both depicted exploring strange new worlds in the
Enterprise, DS9 and Voyager strayed too far.
If Kenner/Hasbro had just ended TF and made Beast Wars a separate thing,
none of these hostilities would be here.
Peace
Fill in your name here
Gyumaoh (gyu...@aol.com) wrote:
: What bothers me about Beast Wars is how it has strayed from the source
: material. Through all the Pretenders and Action Masters and all the
: Japanese series, one thing has remained the same: Autobots vs.
: Decepticons.
Ah but that's where you're wrong. Even the Autobots and
Decepticons weren't Autobots and Decepticons at one point. They were the
military hardware and the civilian group (I forget the term used in FFOD).
: Yes, Beast Wars has transforming robots fighting each other. So what? So
: did the Gobots. So did (and does) hundreds of other TV shows in Japan.
But to continue my point above, they are transforming robots from
the planet Cybertron. One group good, the other intent on conquering the
galaxy and raising taxes (well, maybe not the last part). Although we now
have Maximals and Predacons, we now know they are the descendents of the
Autobots and Decepticons. Should we be upset that the Autos and Deceps
were descendents of the military and civilian hardware built by the
Quintessons? Granted, the name change could have been done in a different
fashion such as a sub group (i.e., Pretenders, Headmasters etc.) and made
a lot of old timer fans happy (and some new ones too, I guess) but that's
not what happened and we now have what we have, for better or worse.
: I think the Star Trek people made the same mistake with DS9 and Voyager.
: Classic Trek & TNG both depicted exploring strange new worlds in the
: Enterprise, DS9 and Voyager strayed too far.
MUST FIGHT URGE TO DEFEND STAR TREK...FIGHT...FIGHT...Okay, I'm
fine now. This is best reserved for another group...FIGHT...okay...
: If Kenner/Hasbro had just ended TF and made Beast Wars a separate thing,
: none of these hostilities would be here.
: Peace
How would the hostility be gone? Then we'd have people making fun
of the toys and commenting on how dumb the animal forms are etc. etc.
Although a lot of complaints about BW surround the fiction, some of the
comments have also stated how the whole line being animals is stupid. And
even if the TF label was dropped, I think that would cause even more anger
and negativity. Then some people would say something like "Transforming
robots made by Hasbro/Kenner but they've dropped the TF name! How dare
they! It's obvious they're just stealing the idea of TF's..." and the
discussion would go on and on. To quote Optimus Primal "There's just no
pleasing some people."
Trnsfrmrs
Just as I figured Beast Wars is nothing but marketing ploy by Hasbro. I am
not really sure but I don't think the original cartoon was financed by
Hasbro. You may correct me if I am wrong. I do like the 3D rendering on
Beast Wars but there is no substance no real story to make another movie.
Mr. Ditillio said
"HASBRO FINANCED THE SHOW and they were producing Beast Wars, not G2. It
was their decision, not mine."
aka INTERBOT
See you at BOTCON 96!!!
Message found on most TF boxes: "Extreme force is not necassary." (but
sometimes useful)
SUZANNE M FERREE
Fill in your name here (ye...@is2.nyu.edu) wrote:
: Gyumaoh (gyu...@aol.com) wrote:
: : What bothers me about Beast Wars is how it has strayed from the source
: : material. Through all the Pretenders and Action Masters and all the
: : Japanese series, one thing has remained the same: Autobots vs.
: : Decepticons.
|sf>Actually, in Japan it was the Cybertronians vs. the Destrons (or was
it Autobots versus Destrons...well, something like that). But you're
right if you mean that they kept the same symbols.
: Ah but that's where you're wrong. Even the Autobots and
: Decepticons weren't Autobots and Decepticons at one point. They were the
: military hardware and the civilian group (I forget the term used in FFOD).
First they were military hardware & consumer goods (but that
was the Quintessons name for them). The soon-to-be-free "Autobots" called
their mark the "slave brand."
: : Yes, Beast Wars has transforming robots fighting each other. So what? So
: : did the Gobots. So did (and does) hundreds of other TV shows in Japan.
:
: But to continue my point above, they are transforming robots from
: the planet Cybertron. One group good, the other intent on conquering the
: galaxy and raising taxes (well, maybe not the last part). Although we now
: have Maximals and Predacons, we now know they are the descendents of the
: Autobots and Decepticons. Should we be upset that the Autos and Deceps
: were descendents of the military and civilian hardware built by the
: Quintessons? Granted, the name change could have been done in a different
Well, it's also been shown various times that the 'bot symbol
hasn't always stayed the same through the years.
: fashion such as a sub group (i.e., Pretenders, Headmasters etc.) and made
: a lot of old timer fans happy (and some new ones too, I guess) but that's
: not what happened and we now have what we have, for better or worse.
Yeah, I know...
: : I think the Star Trek people made the same mistake with DS9 and Voyager.
: : Classic Trek & TNG both depicted exploring strange new worlds in the
: : Enterprise, DS9 and Voyager strayed too far.
:
: MUST FIGHT URGE TO DEFEND STAR TREK...FIGHT...FIGHT...Okay, I'm
: fine now. This is best reserved for another group...FIGHT...okay...
As I've said, a better analogy is Dr. Who...this is just similar to
another regeneration (Well, except for the fact that this time Megatron
is a whole other TF instead of a regeneration. It would kind of be the
same as letting a "new" doctor who is not only a new actor, but also a
new character, take over the role & have him called "The Doctor" as well.
*shrug*). Aw, come on...there's nothing wrong w/ DS9...err never mind...
I'll try to ignore it too. I'm a LOT more of a TF fan than a Star Trek
fan. I've never once bought a Star Trek figure for example...
: : If Kenner/Hasbro had just ended TF and made Beast Wars a separate thing,
: : none of these hostilities would be here.
: : Peace
: How would the hostility be gone? Then we'd have people making fun
Don't you remember how the group was when we first heard the rumor
that the new toys wouldn't have Transformers on the box? Many people
were fumed! It was as if they were betrayed or something.
: of the toys and commenting on how dumb the animal forms are etc. etc.
: Although a lot of complaints about BW surround the fiction, some of the
: comments have also stated how the whole line being animals is stupid. And
Well, as I've said before, they're just trying to get on the
Primal Rage band wagon (hense Optimus *Primal*).
: even if the TF label was dropped, I think that would cause even more anger
: and negativity. Then some people would say something like "Transforming
: robots made by Hasbro/Kenner but they've dropped the TF name! How dare
: they! It's obvious they're just stealing the idea of TF's..." and the
Besides, it would be more...well, I can't think of a better word
for it than sad or painful to see the name TFs just dropped.
Robert A. Jung
In article <4n89p1$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) writes:
>Just as I figured Beast Wars is nothing but marketing ploy by Hasbro. I am
>not really sure but I don't think the original cartoon was financed by
>Hasbro. You may correct me if I am wrong.
You're wrong. Boy, are you wrong. You can't be more wrong than to be wrong
on this one. B-)
The original Transformers cartoon was created because Hasbro HIRED Marvel
Productions to create a cartoon for them (I think this was all part of the
work-for-hire that got Marvel to do the comic, too). Marvel did the writing
and the storyboarding and the character designs in-house, and sub-contracted
with Toei to do the actual animation. Irregardless, the money flowed FROM
Hasbro and TO Marvel/Toei.
And while I'm still not too thrilled with the Beast Wars toys so far (tho
I am hoping Wolfang turns out cool), I am still hopeful that the cartoon will
give us some well-written stories to enjoy.
--R.J.
B-)
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"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are
amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine."
Send mail to rj...@netcom.com --Frank Zappa
Playground Psychotic
Raksha wrote:
There's a great scene near the beginning, when the
> Decepticons are scanning the area to find suitable forms for their new bodies,
> and you see the beam pass over a wasp facing down a tarantula. That's an
> actual ecological interaction (you probably don't want to know what the wasp
> does with the tarantula if it manages to win the encounter -- probably the most
> gruesome death I can picture)
I think you do want to know.
The wasp stings the tarantula, over and over again, until it
contains enough poison for about a month's paralysation. The
wasp then digs a hole, drags the tarantula in, and lays an
egg on it. When the larva hatches, it's lying on its entire
childhood's worth of food. The tarantula (I love this part)
does not die until the larva has pupated, which means it is
eaten alive through the entire grubhood.
PP
(deliciously ghoulish)
Arklier
trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) wrote:
> I am not really sure but I don't think the original cartoon was financed by
>Hasbro. You may correct me if I am wrong.
It was. They made it in conjunction with Marvel and Sunbow, which
handled the original story and animation/plots respectively. That's
why the comic and cartoon started out the same initially, same source.
Anyway, you can see all three logos in the credits.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arklier
Firsty is the best!
Lizard
On 10 May 1996 22:52:53 GMT, jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Raksha)
wrote:
The producers of the cartoon
>have done a lot better in this department, and here I really have to give them
>Decepticons are scanning the area to find suitable forms for their new bodies,
>and you see the beam pass over a wasp facing down a tarantula. That's an
>actual ecological interaction (you probably don't want to know what the wasp
>does with the tarantula if it manages to win the encounter -- probably the most
Heh. It would be nice if they worked that into the relationships
between the caracters...but as you note, some things might not be
considered suitable for a show whose primary audience is
grade-schoolers.
*-------------------------------------------------------*
Compassion is no virtue, cruelty is no vice:Skorponok
Make deals, not war:Swindle