Death to BEAST WARS!
Julian Titus
Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way! Action Masters was bad
enough, but...THIS?! What about all the history? How can they throw Alpha
Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain? There MUST be others out
there who feel the same!
Shaw-Shin Yang
Julian Titus (TGP...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
transformers crashed on earth, now why must they become vehicles? they
could have easily assimilated with any other creatures on earth, even
humans?!! and some animals are very beautiful and all. Watch some
national geographics. ? Saw something on pbs today with some cheetahs,
and they are very cool animals, and fast. Dogs, and cats? I don't know,
but then,if you don't have any affinity for animals, oh well. but you are
entirely entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to convert you, just
that it's not that bad for me, and I see the logic of it. But yeah, the
original transformers are still their own versions and the originals, and
my favorite also, but beast wars isn't too bad.
DanielM405
Julian Titus wrote:
> Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast
> Wars. How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way! Action Masters
> was bad enough, but...THIS?! What about all the history? How can they
> throw Alpha Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain? There MUST
> be others out there who feel the same!
When I first heard about Hasbro and Kenner doing this, I was outraged. I
mean, Transformers were vehicles, for the most part. There were the
Dinobots, Insecticons, Sparkacons, Predacons, Seacons, and others, but for
the most part they were vehicles. I still hate the fact that they
butchered Prime's good name, Optimus Primal, god!
But, think of this as the Next Generation of Transformers. For years, in
fact, more than half of their 7 seasons, most TOS fans hated TNG. Now,
TNG fans hate DS9 and Voyager, because they are not giving them the chance
that they gave TNG. Things are always changing and nothing ever stays the
same. Mr. DiTillo came on here and told us that we are not the target
audience. They like that we are here, but quite frankly we CANNOT support
the toy line by ourselves. For a toy line to survive, it must appeal to
children.
I have been a fan of the Transformers for more than eleven years. They
were my friends when I didn't have them. I think we need to have open
minds and if, after seeing the full production, daily/weekly cartoon, we
still don't like it, fine. But it is far too early to hate it and want it
to die. Face it, Beast Wars are hot items. I have heard more than one
child scream, "Look at these new Transformers! They are so cool!"
Target, K-Mart, Toys 'R Us, Walgreens, every place that sells them cannot
keep them on the shelf here.
The one thing I wish they would do is make up quotes. The quotes told us
more about them than the few sentences below.
Dan
Julian Titus
Sorry, but I just can't see the Beast Wars as the next generation of
Transformers. My cousin and I came up with an all new story, starting
with a new movie, that picked up where the Headmasters left off. I don't
appreciate seeing my hero reduced to "Optimus Primal". I don't mind if
they add new "Beast Wars" characters, but they should be another division,
like Headmasters, MicroMasters, and Pretenders. Give me Megatron and
Optimus Prime like they were.
H. Jameel al Khafiz
TGP...@prodigy.com (Julian Titus) writes:
> Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
> How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way! Action Masters was bad
> enough, but...THIS?! What about all the history? How can they throw Alpha
> Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain? There MUST be others out
> there who feel the same!
Have you actually watched the Beast Wars cartoon? No history was
thrown down the drain.
----
H. Jameel al Khafiz "I got a letter from the government the other day
Physicist-At-Large I opened and read it; it said they were suckers!"
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/usr/ha09/home --Chuck D
Zobovor001
Beast Wars seems a lot less human-centric to me. Think about it: in the
old show, what did they turn into? things that were created by HUMANS.
In this show, they turn into natural creatures, animals which are
best-suited for their environment. Looks fine to me...
Richard Hudson
In article <4o0o08$d...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
Julian Titus <TGP...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
> How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way! Action Masters was bad
>enough, but...THIS?! What about all the history? How can they throw Alpha
>Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain? There MUST be others out
>there who feel the same!
AMEN BROTHER!. Geez the least they could do is see if marvel was
interested in producing a new series before going to some Canadian
animation company. The Characters are just plain ugly, the writing is boring
the characters are stupid,dull and an embarrassment to their namesakes.
The entire idea of Beast Wars is stupid. Where are the transformers with
speical powers like Ironhide, who could shoot and liquid out of his handa
or Tracks who could fly <a speical talent for an Autobot> or Rumble who
could turn his arms into pile drivers. And where are the personaliies.
These characters seem one dimentional compared to their Autobot and
Deceptcon comuterparts. I mean would the REAL Megatron ould say something
like "Sneaky underhanded trick ho ho ho. I like that pussycat yes!" No he
would have used his fusion cannon to blast the sucker. Rattrap is an
annoy7ing meld of the worst qualties of Bumblebee and Rumble, both of
which are transformers that i really like.Secondly who could theis "next step
in Transformers eveloution take place in only 200 years when the average
life span of your average Cybertronian is about 10 or 15 million years. Plus
why habe the Transformers have forgotten about Eatth when it was the
prime lfighting ground of the last Auto-'con war. Also what are enegeron
crystals. In the original series energeon could be made from any sourse
of electricty including geothermal electricty oil and in the case of the
Incecticons plain old grain. You can have your beast wars. ill give the
Beast Wars a chance but they will never be as good as the original
Transformers
Autobots Roll out!
Richard Hudson
DanielM405
Who's to say that they are not a different division? They are the
characters that are being focused on right now, but I just consider them
to be BeastMasters.
Dan
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <4o2632$o...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
Julian Titus <TGP...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>Sorry, but I just can't see the Beast Wars as the next generation of
>Transformers. My cousin and I came up with an all new story, starting
>with a new movie, that picked up where the Headmasters left off. I don't
Not to devalue your work, but there's already a huge continuity which
follows Headmasters in the Japanese cartoon. Headmasters, Super God
Masterforce, Victory, and Zone take the story all they way up to 2025,
cycling through about seven Autobot leaders and all manner of evil
Decepticons.
>appreciate seeing my hero reduced to "Optimus Primal". I don't mind if
>they add new "Beast Wars" characters, but they should be another division,
> like Headmasters, MicroMasters, and Pretenders. Give me Megatron and
>Optimus Prime like they were.
Keep in mind that Primal and Megatron are not the same characters as the
old Optimus Prime and Megatron. Perhaps a different spelling of the
Predacon leader's name is in order? Silly fannish suggestion to consider.
KKC, why oh why, do fans love to hate?
--
"You know whut IS a Alabama search warrant? Where the Sherriff goes 'round to
the front door, and the deputy goes round to the back door. Then the Sherriff
knocks on the front door, and then the deputy yells real loud, 'COME ON IN!'"
kend...@io.com - http://www.io.com/~kendrick(/tfr) -Kendrick Kerwin Yap Chua
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <4o21em$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
DanielM405 <danie...@aol.com> wrote:
>Julian Titus wrote:
>
>> Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast
>> Wars. How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way! Action Masters
>
>audience. They like that we are here, but quite frankly we CANNOT support
>the toy line by ourselves. For a toy line to survive, it must appeal to
>children.
I've made this argument about Beast Wars myself, along the 'please give
it a chance before you ignore it completely' line of thinking.
However, I can't help but wonder if there's some way to avoid targeting
five-to-ten-year-olds only, at the expense of the rest of the core
audience. Forgive the generalization, but anime does a good job of
attempting to cater to all sorts of age groups and tastes. There's sappy
romance for little girls, violence and big robots for little boys, leg
and cleavage for teenages (even the old ones :) sensitive and/or
vulnerable guys for the women, and layers and layers of in-jokes and
humor for adults.
The folks at Bandai have said of the Gundam show that very few people
ever wwatch an entire episode. The audience members tend to pay closer
attention to what interests them, and then follow the rest for the story
only.
Would it be too difficult to do this with Beast Wars? The premiere was
great, but if they don't keep it intelligence I fear that once the target
audience becomes adults, they won't love Beast Wars as much as we adult
fans still love the old series.
That's something for children's programmers to remember. Your audience
will eventually grow up. And your product can either follow them there or
get left behind.
KKC, quickly forgetting what it was like to be a kid...
msipher
My turn! My turn!
Y'know, before I whip out the verbal ginsus, let me just make a general
obseravation... it seems to me that a fair percentage of anti-BW
sentiment is expressed very vaguely, and with no real point other than
"They're not the TFs from 1985!"
To which I reply "Tough tacos."
On 23 May 1996, Julian Titus wrote:
> Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
Fine. Why?
> How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way!
What, giving them fleshy alternate modes? What's so bad about that?
They're still ROBOTS IN DISGUISE, they're just a different TYPE of
disguise.
And let me focus on the phrase "How dare they"... TFs are the property of
Hasbro/Kenner/Takara... they can damn well do whatever the f*ck they WANT
to to them. They don't answer to us, and they don't really care. Those
who have been TF fans from before BW aren't the target group, as just the
long-time fans aren't enough to carry a toy line.
> Action Masters was bad
> enough, but...THIS?!
Oh, so now you're digging into Action Masters now? Some of the nicest,
most detailed action figures of the time? Cool, posable versions of some
of our favorite TFs who had admittantly crappy toys? (Megatron, Blaster,
Bumblebee...) Plus some very cool new characters? (Banzai-Tron,
Treadshot, Jackpot, Kick-Off...)
> What about all the history? How can they throw Alpha
> Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain?
Umm... just how do you figure this? The toys themselves have NEVER
referenced to A-3, the Matrix, or Unicron... besides, you've got two,
three different histories to play with here! The cartoon is NOT the only
TF history!
And the new cartoon does NOT ignore the old series... it references to
it, admits its existance, but still separates itself from it. As it
should. Any new toy line, cartoon, whatever must be able to stand ON ITS
OWN. As has been said many times before, the show is MEANT to catch kids,
kids new to the whole Auto/Maximal-Decep/Predacon storyline... and
bogging them down with details about toys NO LONGER AVAILABLE would both
confuse them and take the focus away from the current line.
> There MUST be others out
> there who feel the same!
Perhaps. I'm not saying you HAVE to like Beast Wars. Nobody is. BUT, I do
ask you take the time to look at them objectively, and, to paraphrase
Mr. DiTillio, judge them for what they ARE (well-made toys with a
beautifully-animated, interesting cartoon), not what they AREN'T (the
first two years of TFs.) If you still don't like them THEN, fine.
And let me take a moment to re-state two of my personal opinions, which
probably aren't going to be very popular...
1) I hope that the TF line NEVER returns to simply re-releasing the old
molds. Even as recolors. I would rather see Has/Ken trying out new molds
and TF concepts (like the end of the G2 line, which was turning out some
very promising toys). If they fail then, fine. They tried. We KNOW that
mere re-molds of decade-old toys aren't going to sell....
2) I hope that the TF toys from Japan that never made it to mass-market
America (or Euro/Australia/Whatever) STAY that way. For two reasons...
ONE: some of them honestly aren't all that great! Many suffer from the
same problems of the rest of the line... limited posability, simplistic
transformations... what makes THESE guys cool is the fiction behind them
(the very cool Japanese cartoons), PLUS the fact that they are HARD to
get hold of. TWO: dammit, I have several of these guys, and nothing would
piss me off more than to see Star Sabre in a Target for thirty bucks. You
think seeing the Laser Optimus Prime on-sale at Kay-Bee for $15 while you
paid $40 for him several months before was infuriating?
M "I'll Take A T-Rex Megatron Over His Pistol Form Any Day" Sipher
Robert A. Jung
In article <4o18s9$3...@agate.berkeley.edu> shaw...@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Shaw-Shin Yang) writes:
> Oh come on it's not that bad. Think about it. if the original
>transformers crashed on earth, now why must they become vehicles? they
>could have easily assimilated with any other creatures on earth, even
>humans?
Because according to the canonical sources, the Ark's probes were able to
only detect mechanical activity as signs of life. It picked the trucks and
cars and planes because it "saw" them, while being able to differentiate the
organtic animals from the organtic "background," like trees.
Sidenote 1: it's a pretty screwy excuse, but it sure isn't the first screwy
excuse from the Transformers mythos. Assuming that mechanical life is the
only form of sentience is somewhat plausible, though it implies a total
ignorance of organtic matter.
Sidenote 2: What if the Ark had rebuilt the Transformers into trees and
other vegetable matter? Wow, that'd make the fans raise a ruckus... B-)
--R.J.
B-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are
amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine."
Send mail to rj...@netcom.com --Frank Zappa
Fill in your name here
Julian Titus (TGP...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
: enough, but...THIS?! What about all the history? How can they throw Alpha
: Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain? There MUST be others out
Those who know me know that I just HAVE to throw my .028935 cents
into this fray.
First, why are you apalled at Beast Wars? You say they have
altered your heroes, but who are you referring to? NO original characters
are being used in Beast Wars, even Megatron and Optimus Primal are merely
new warriors who have taken on the names of the classic leaders.
As for 'throwing history away', your information is incorrect.
The Transformers Beast Wars takes place approximately 200 years after the
original series. The Maximals and the Predacons are the descendents of
the Autobots and Decepticons who still reside on Cybertron. If you've
seen the cartoon, you'll see that Cybertron, the Great War and Earth are
all mentioned. These are small, but significant references to the past
series. More references will come as time goes along. All this is
information from Larry DiTillio, editor of Beast Wars himself.
The CGI work in Beast Wars is excellent IMHO and the stories seem
like they will be fairly intelligent (considering the target audience is
5-10 years old) and the writers do have good intentions for a nice story
arc for the show. Also, by taking an active role in this newsgroup, Mr.
DiTillio is showing a good amount of concern for the fans and their
opinions of the show. Give it a chance (heck, watch the first two
episodes and if you have, do so again) and try to see the good points of
this and learn more about Beast Wars before totally trashing it.
As for the Action Masters, I don't feel like starting a new thread
but let's just say: I loved them.
**********************************************
*Name: Benson "Ironfire" Yee *
*a.k.a. Wonko the Sane *
*e-mail: ye...@is2.nyu.edu *
******************************************
*Beast Wars Transformers web page: *
*http://pages.nyu.edu/~yeebe/beast.htm *
***************************************
"A treacherous, underhanded sneak attack! Ho, ho, ho, I like you
pussycat, yes!"
-Beast Wars Megatron
Fill in your name here
Julian Titus (TGP...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Sorry, but I just can't see the Beast Wars as the next generation of
: Transformers. My cousin and I came up with an all new story, starting
: with a new movie, that picked up where the Headmasters left off. I don't
: like Headmasters, MicroMasters, and Pretenders. Give me Megatron and
: Optimus Prime like they were.
Perhaps you didn't read my post (or some of the other anti-Beast
Wars posts floating about a.t.t.). Your story is probably cool, and
there's nothing wrong with speculating about it but let me just point out
again:
Optimus Primal and Megatron ARE NOT the same characters that we've
known and loved for all these years. They are new characters carrying on
the names of the original leaders. In effect, Optimus Primal and Megatron
have not been 'reduced' to anything, they haven't even been TOUCHED. The
Maximal leader Optimus Primal and Predacon leader Megatron are new
characters altogether.
They have not added new characters to Beast Wars, there's nothing
to add. They are presenting us with all new characters. Some are pretty
interesting IMHO, Cheetor, the hot shot Maximal, Rattrap, the arguementive
character, Megatron, arrogant and bent on galactic conquest, Tarantulus,
the crazy genius, Rhinox, the loyal warrior and Optimus Primal, young
leader who has to deal with the Predacons and his own troops who don't
always get along. These descriptions only begin to describe the
characters. So, if you are willing to accept new characters, then that's
what Beast Wars is.
As for them being another 'group' like Pretenders or Micromasters,
many people consider them that and that is not far from the 'official'
story. The Maximals and the Predacons are the descendents of the Autobots
and Decepticons. By this token, they are actually another group within
the Transformers race.
So, the offer still stands dude, give Beast Wars a chance. The
cartoon is cool, the writers have taken the original fiction into account
while providing us with a good starting point for Beast Wars and the toys
are pretty darn neat themselves.
Robert A. Jung
In article <4o37u9$u...@shangri-la.io.com> kend...@io.com (Kendrick Kerwin Chua) writes:
>[BEAST WARS stuff deleted]
>
>KKC, why oh why, do fans love to hate?
Because a bunch of fans all agreeing with each other is boring. B-)
Consider, which offers more group dynamics:
Kendric: "I always thought Starscream was a sniveling loser!"
(heh heh)
Robert: "Yeah!"
Diana: "That's tellin' 'em!"
Dave: "Right on!"
M. Sipher: "You bet!"
Raksha: "No doubt about it!"
Or...
Kendric: "I always thought Starscream was a sniveling loser!"
Robert: "What? Oh, come on, that's crazy. Egostiistical, sure,
but sniveling? That's completely mangling his reputation, and
your characterization is WAY off-base."
Diana: "Oh, I don't know, Starscream can get pretty weasly at
times. Remember in 'Nucleon Meltdown,' where he had to grovel
for Megatron not to kill him? He was practically licking Meg's
toes at that point!"
Dave: "Naw, he was just distracting Megatron from Frenzy's
attempts to jury-rig the reactor. I swear, the two were
working together."
M. Sipher: "That's crazy! Nothing in the episode supports
that. You ask ME, Starscream puts on that sniveling loser
act to fool everyone into underestimating him. If you were
to put Starscream as Decepticon leader, you wouldn't see him
kowtow to anyone!"
Raksha: "Dream on! On the incredibly ridiculous chance that
Starscream can successfully overthrow Megatron at all (which I
don't believe, since Megs is the only REAL Decepticon leader),
he's sure to get pounced on by every other Decepticon in the
bunch. They're all a gang of backstabbers anyuway, and you can
bet Starscream will go whimpering to the first person to kick
him down!"
Zobovor001
In article <4o37kd$u...@shangri-la.io.com>, kend...@io.com (Kendrick
Kerwin Chua) writes:
>However, I can't help but wonder if there's some way to avoid targeting
>five-to-ten-year-olds only, at the expense of the rest of the core
>audience.
There is a serious flaw in your logic... (My, how utterly Shockwavian of
me!) The five-to-ten-year olds ARE the core audience! We make up only
about ten percent of the market...
Zobovor001
In article <4o37u9$u...@shangri-la.io.com>, kend...@io.com (Kendrick
Kerwin Chua) writes:
>Keep in mind that Primal and Megatron are not the same characters as the
>old Optimus Prime and Megatron. Perhaps a different spelling of the
>Predacon leader's name is in order? Silly fannish suggestion to consider.
Hmmm.... Maga Turon? (Maybe not...)
Trnsfrmrs
Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not look good on the
real collectors. Why are you buying them? For your kids?
aka INTERBOT
See you at BOTCON 96!!!
Message found on most TF boxes: "Extreme force is not necassary." (but
sometimes useful)
Trnsfrmrs
BW is a mutated hybrid of TFs! What happend to good quality!
Fill in your name here
Robert A. Jung (rj...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <4o18s9$3...@agate.berkeley.edu> shaw...@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Shaw-Shin Yang) writes:
: > Oh come on it's not that bad. Think about it. if the original
: >transformers crashed on earth, now why must they become vehicles? they
: >could have easily assimilated with any other creatures on earth, even
: >humans?
:
: Because according to the canonical sources, the Ark's probes were able to
: only detect mechanical activity as signs of life. It picked the trucks and
: cars and planes because it "saw" them, while being able to differentiate the
: organtic animals from the organtic "background," like trees.
[snip]
I don't think this applied to the show did it? As I recall, only
in the comic book did the Ark only have the ability to detect 'mechanical
life forms'.
As a side note, even if the Ark couldn't detect organics in the
original series, by the time of Beast Wars, one would think that
technology would have changed enough over the course of 4,000,000+ years
(approximate time between the Ark's crash and the new series) to detect
organic forms.
DanielM405
INTERBOT wrote:
> BW is a mutated hybrid of TFs! What happend to good
> quality!
Some of them are very high quality toys. Wolfang, Rhinox, Waspinator,
Tarantulas, are very high quality. Even Terrosaur, Insecticon, Rattrap
and bat Optimus Primal. I can't wait for gorilla Optimus Primal, T-Rex
Megatron, Scorponok and Polar Claw! Even the very first, mass market,
female Transformer!
What I don't understand is how little room there is in so many people's
hearts for new things.
Dan
DanielM405
INTERBOT wrote:
> Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not
> look good on the real collectors. Why are you buying
> them? For your kids?
You know, for a little more than two years we did not have these things at
all. I love the Transformers, always have and always will. Disney movies
are targeted at little kids, yet most of us go and see them. Most of the
sugary cereals are targeted at grade school kids, yet most of us buy them
from time to time.
Don't be so negative.
Dan
Shaw-Shin Yang
Zobovor001 (zobov...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <4o37kd$u...@shangri-la.io.com>, kend...@io.com (Kendrick
: Kerwin Chua) writes:
: >However, I can't help but wonder if there's some way to avoid targeting
: >five-to-ten-year-olds only, at the expense of the rest of the core
: >audience.
: There is a serious flaw in your logic... (My, how utterly Shockwavian of
: me!) The five-to-ten-year olds ARE the core audience! We make up only
: about ten percent of the market...
And therein is the difference and the problem here in the usa vs. japan.
How can Japan make so many anime? Cause there are more than 5-10year
olds who are interested in the art and storytelling form and thus buy
toys as the target audience. While here in
the Usa, not so. Most people are still in the ...cartoons are for
kids...yadda, yadda, yadda...and only theatrical releases for cartoons
are usuallly disney or disney based family type movie that though okay,
people can hate and dislike. but that's the way usa is and it'll be
tough to change it anytime soon. And USA is USA, not Japan, but it would
be nice if people would more readily accept the animation as a pure and
good way of presenting a story in just as good respect as live action
movies, though people do accept it a bit more with the disney junk, but
we would like or I would like to see more movies in animation in a
different flavor, but I have also digressed cause we are talking about a
children's television series not movies, but some of the stuff i said
still applies. Me out....Shaw.
msipher
On 24 May 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not look good on the
> real collectors. Why are you buying them? For your kids?
Now THERE'S a very weak argument. The whole damn Transformers line was
targeted at grade school kids FROM THE BEGINNING.
Hello, ever watched Tiny Toons? The Tick? Animaniacs? Freakazoid?
These are all cartoons that have grade school kids as the target audience,
BUT, they have a LOT of fans who are teenagers or adults. ANY toy line or
Saturday-morning/weekday afternoon cartoon MUST appeal to kids... but the
really successful ones also try to hit the older age groups as well.
Which is what BW is doing.
M "It's Like Newsgroup Whack-A-Mole!" Sipher
msipher
On 23 May 1996, Julian Titus wrote:
> Sorry, but I just can't see the Beast Wars as the next generation of
> Transformers.
Why? C'mon, give us some reasoning here...
> I don't
> appreciate seeing my hero reduced to "Optimus Primal".
Well, the cartoon writers at least made Primal a COMPLETELY SEPARATE
CHARACTER from the original Optimus. I don't care for the name either...
but then again, I was never a big OP fan.
> I don't mind if
> they add new "Beast Wars" characters, but they should be another division,
> like Headmasters, MicroMasters, and Pretenders. Give me Megatron and
> Optimus Prime like they were.
Well, I do consider them another subgroup.
It's been said before, and I guess it has to be said again... the old
vehicle molds just weren't selling enough. Hence the change.
And as for Megs and Op... *which* "as they were"? They'd have a hard time
out-doing Laser Prime... bloody shame Megs never got a new body of that
caliber.
M "I'm Responsible For The Lives Of 148 Crew Members On Board This Ship,
144 Of Which We Never See..." Sipher
Robert A. Jung
In article <4o4k23$5...@news.nyu.edu> ye...@is2.nyu.edu (Fill in your name here) writes:
>Robert A. Jung (rj...@netcom.com) wrote:
>>In article <4o18s9$3...@agate.berkeley.edu> shaw...@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Shaw-Shin Yang) writes:
>>> Oh come on it's not that bad. Think about it. if the original
>>>transformers crashed on earth, now why must they become vehicles? they
>>>could have easily assimilated with any other creatures on earth, even
>>>humans?
>>
>> Because according to the canonical sources, the Ark's probes were able to
>>only detect mechanical activity as signs of life.
>
It was implied, though not explicitly stated. Certainly it would have been
easier for the probe to find organtic life near Mt. St. Hillary than to go to
a nearby town or airbase and scan some pictures.
> As a side note, even if the Ark couldn't detect organics in the
>original series, by the time of Beast Wars, one would think that
>technology would have changed enough over the course of 4,000,000+ years
>(approximate time between the Ark's crash and the new series) to detect
>organic forms.
Sure. But that wasn't Shaw-Shin's original point; he was wondering why the
original characters had to be made into vehicles, and I gave the answer. B-)
Though, again, I'm still a fan of the vehicles, because they're more robot-
like for my tastes.
Raksha
In article <rjungDr...@netcom.com>,
(Raksha flexes a set of talons) You had it right up until the very last
sentance. They're *not* a gang of backstabbers, and that's one of the points
I've been trying to make for years. Entirely the wrong words to place into my
mouth......
--Raksha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soundwave@2005 MUSH: "The secrets of the Universe reveal themselves
to those who listen."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Dept. of Zoology, OSU
Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/1139
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirge
msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
-> My turn! My turn!
-> Y'know, before I whip out the verbal ginsus, let me just make a general
-> obseravation... it seems to me that a fair percentage of anti-BW
-> sentiment is expressed very vaguely, and with no real point other than
-> "They're not the TFs from 1985!"
OK, well, in my current state of mind (depressed, angry and generally
bitter), this post will no coubt be a flame. Stiff (:
-> To which I reply "Tough tacos."
-> On 23 May 1996, Julian Titus wrote:
-> > Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
Dude, I've been a fan since I was first Given Jazz in may 1984 and
McDonalds Caringbah. As a fan from the start, I like BW.
-> > How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way!
Which heroes? They're all new characters, dude. Anyway, is Optimus Prime
is your role model, you need a life. I for one don't want to aspire to
being a big red truck.
-> What, giving them fleshy alternate modes? What's so bad about that?
-> They're still ROBOTS IN DISGUISE, they're just a different TYPE of
-> disguise.
And, when you think about it, what better way to hide a metallic lifeform
than within a biological one?
-> And let me focus on the phrase "How dare they"... TFs are the property of
-> Hasbro/Kenner/Takara... they can damn well do whatever the f*ck they WANT
-> to to them. They don't answer to us, and they don't really care. Those
-> who have been TF fans from before BW aren't the target group, as just the
-> long-time fans aren't enough to carry a toy line.
That's right. The dudes at Kenner/Hasbro/Whatever on ridiculous salaries
who make the decisions have total legal control of TFs. If you don't like
that, tough. They don't _see_ the long-time fans as relevant - maybe they
see us as a bunch of nerds with no grip on reality (in truth, they'd be
so pampered that they'd have no grasp on everyday life, but I digress),
who only spend money on TFs from dealers and stuff. So why should they
cater to us?
-> > Action Masters was bad
-> > enough, but...THIS?!
-> Oh, so now you're digging into Action Masters now? Some of the nicest,
-> most detailed action figures of the time? Cool, posable versions of some
-> of our favorite TFs who had admittantly crappy toys? (Megatron, Blaster,
-> Bumblebee...) Plus some very cool new characters? (Banzai-Tron,
-> Treadshot, Jackpot, Kick-Off...)
Hey! I thought Original Bumblebee was a choice toy (but then Minicars are
still my fave TF subline)!
-> > What about all the history? How can they throw Alpha
-> > Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain?
-> Umm... just how do you figure this? The toys themselves have NEVER
-> referenced to A-3, the Matrix, or Unicron... besides, you've got two,
-> three different histories to play with here! The cartoon is NOT the only
-> TF history!
Apart from that, many video stores don't even carry TF:TM nowadays - a
lot of kids (the target audience) wouldn't remember Alpha Trion.
-> > There MUST be others out
-> > there who feel the same!
Well, look at it this way, it's Beasts or nothing. I'm pissed off that
hasbro (incorporating Kenner) Australia decided to not carry Beasts. WE
AREN'T GETTING ANY TF'S THIS YEAR. If the US wasn't getting BW, they'd be
squat. I'd rather beasts on the shelves of my local TRU than seeing the
dwindling stocks of Stormtroopers (which aren't all that great, although
better than the US water guys), which aren't being re-stocked.
-> And let me take a moment to re-state two of my personal opinions, which
-> probably aren't going to be very popular...
-> 1) I hope that the TF line NEVER returns to simply re-releasing the old
-> molds. Even as recolors. I would rather see Has/Ken trying out new molds
-> and TF concepts (like the end of the G2 line, which was turning out some
-> very promising toys). If they fail then, fine. They tried. We KNOW that
-> mere re-molds of decade-old toys aren't going to sell....
I'd like to see Hasbro here let out some of their backstock (they've
released G1 Ramjet, but no others), but I don't want to see shitloads of
Red Alerts on the shevles. I had to import my Red Alert, and spend $20 to
fix him up. I'd be really pissed to see him at TRU now in droves.
-> 2) I hope that the TF toys from Japan that never made it to mass-market
-> America (or Euro/Australia/Whatever) STAY that way. For two reasons...
-> ONE: some of them honestly aren't all that great! Many suffer from the
-> same problems of the rest of the line... limited posability, simplistic
-> transformations... what makes THESE guys cool is the fiction behind them
-> (the very cool Japanese cartoons), PLUS the fact that they are HARD to
-> get hold of. TWO: dammit, I have several of these guys, and nothing would
-> piss me off more than to see Star Sabre in a Target for thirty bucks. You
-> think seeing the Laser Optimus Prime on-sale at Kay-Bee for $15 while you
-> paid $40 for him several months before was infuriating?
Yeah and that'd really be a kick in teh teeth for me. Because what new
TFs would I see? (Assuming its the Euro ones put out) Nothing. I mean,
The Trakkons are a cool duo, bt I already have them. I Don't want to see
the Stormtroopers put out, because I have them. I certainly gon't want to
see Classic Sunstreaker or the G2 Blast Off Watch put out over there.
Australia only got 4 exclusive toys (Classic Sunny, Ironhide, G2 Watches
Blast Off & Megatron), and four more uniquely packaged (G2 Powermasters
in US-style packaging).
I like knowing that My Classic Sunny was never released in Europe or the
US or Japan. In a way it's cool that My Gobot Megatron might be the only
on in this country, but he's common over there. I like having a rare
Aussie TF.
-> M "I'll Take A T-Rex Megatron Over His Pistol Form Any Day" Sipher
Ahh well I don't like doubling up on one character, and I have the croc.
Darren, suffering from soemthing akin to PMT.
Dirge
trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) writes:
-> BW is a mutated hybrid of TFs! What happend to good quality!
When you get Stalker, go buy a regular beast, and you tell me what
happened to that quality.
(Don't get me wrong - Stalker's very cool. But the plastic's questionable)
Darren, sorry about the public posting refering to a trade.
Dirge
msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
Why is it I always seem to follow up Sipher in these threads?
-> On 23 May 1996, Julian Titus wrote:
-> > Sorry, but I just can't see the Beast Wars as the next generation of
-> > Transformers.
-> Why? C'mon, give us some reasoning here...
Maybe he needs glasses (:
-> > I don't
-> > appreciate seeing my hero reduced to "Optimus Primal".
-> Well, the cartoon writers at least made Primal a COMPLETELY SEPARATE
-> CHARACTER from the original Optimus. I don't care for the name either...
-> but then again, I was never a big OP fan.
I'm actually really pleased Primal's a seperate character. I think
everyong knows I'm not a OP fan, and was glad when the bat wasn't him,
because I happen to really like the bat toy. I've got no intention of
getting the gorilla, because I like the bat so much in fact (and also I'm
willing/stupid enough to fork out $25 and air mail for the BotCon
exclusive because it's the bat).
-> > I don't mind if
-> > they add new "Beast Wars" characters, but they should be another division,
-> > like Headmasters, MicroMasters, and Pretenders. Give me Megatron and
-> > Optimus Prime like they were.
-> Well, I do consider them another subgroup.
Well, I think that's what they're supposed to be - the TF name wasn't
dropped, to appease _us_, I'd imagine. But the toys have enough asppeal to
be popular amongst kids.
-> It's been said before, and I guess it has to be said again... the old
-> vehicle molds just weren't selling enough. Hence the change.
I'd rather see Onyx Primal (is that the name?) than a G2 Trailbreaker.
-> And as for Megs and Op... *which* "as they were"? They'd have a hard time
-> out-doing Laser Prime... bloody shame Megs never got a new body of that
-> caliber.
Well he's the _bad guy_. Noone wants the bad guys except to even out
their numbers.... ( - generic corporate director)
Sorry raksha. I'm pretty sure that's the way they think, or close to it.
-> M "I'm Responsible For The Lives Of 148 Crew Members On Board This Ship,
-> 144 Of Which We Never See..." Sipher
Darren, hates corporate everything (:
Robert A. Jung
In article <4o5sep$c...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Raksha) writes:
>In article <rjungDr...@netcom.com>, Robert A. Jung <rj...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>(Raksha flexes a set of talons) You had it right up until the very last
>sentance. They're *not* a gang of backstabbers, and that's one of the points
>I've been trying to make for years.
Well, DUH! B-) Why did you think I put those words in your mouth, other
than it's totally against the grain and thus (I had hoped) funnier?
Or, to put it another way, why do you think I had Kendric of all people call
Starscream of all characters a "sniveling loser"? (Hint: think MUSHing here)
You of all people should I caught the incongruities nice-n-early.
Geez, Raksha, I wonder if you're a little too tense lately... B-)
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not look good on the
: real collectors. Why are you buying them? For your kids?
:
myself because they are QUALITY toys. It DOES look good on 'real
collectors' because we are collecting QUALITY toys. The Beast Wars toys
have great packaging, cool modes (both creature and robot), weapons,
posability, design, detail and play factor. I am buying them because I am
a long time TF fan and I enjoy the Beast Wars toys. I don't have any kids
but if I did and they wanted Beast Wars toys, I would not object.
Just because you think that BW's are not good TF's, it does not
require you to insult collectors by saying that having Beast Wars looks
bad on 'real collectors'. Can't you just accept that some people LIKE
Beast Wars who ARE Transformers fans old and new?
Sheesh, I apologize for the personal tone of this follow up post
but Interbot, there's a big difference between judging toys and judging
the people that collect them and it seems that if you can't insult the
toys, you'll insult those who buy them and that's just wrong.
Gregg T. Allinson
Fill in your name here (ye...@is2.nyu.edu) wrote:
: Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: : Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not look good on the
: : real collectors. Why are you buying them? For your kids?
: :
: Now you sound like my parents Interbot. NO, I buy Beast Wars for
: myself because they are QUALITY toys. It DOES look good on 'real
: collectors' because we are collecting QUALITY toys.
I have Megatron, Op Primal, and Tarantulas. All three are very awkward
looking and hard to pose IMHO. And if he only cares about collecting and
not waether or not kids have fun or not...he's missing the point of the
TFs.
: Just because you think that BW's are not good TF's, it does not
: require you to insult collectors by saying that having Beast Wars looks
: bad on 'real collectors'. Can't you just accept that some people LIKE
: Beast Wars who ARE Transformers fans old and new?
I recently returned to the fold of the TFs after a long absence, and at
1st, I was offended by BW, but now I'm not. It's a decent idea. I just
wish the figures were better-made...
--
Half Human on his Mother's Side,
Gregg "Dave" Allinson
Visit the Scrapyard ("C'mon, Pop!") @ http://miso.wwa.com/~roscoe
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I had to face my fear Sarah...it was more important than going on living..."
In Memoriam
Jon Pertwee-The Third Doctor and A Dear Friend to All
7 July 1919 - 20 May 1996
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Save Doctor Who! Write FOX at Fox Broadcasting Company PO Box 900
Beverly Hills, CA 90213-0900 *and* fox...@delphi.com and tell them how
much you liked May 14th's TV movie! DON'T LET THE DOCTOR DIE A FINAL DEATH!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Wright
>
> I like knowing that My Classic Sunny was never released in Europe or
> the US or Japan. In a way it's cool that My Gobot Megatron might be the
> only on in this country, but he's common over there. I like having a
> rare Aussie TF
I've seen a Classic Sunstreaker in the U.K. It was in this dealer's store
I know and AFAIK the guy he bought it from was from the UK too.
paulwright
Scott Neukam
rich...@kiowa.wildstar.net (Richard Hudson) wrote:
>AMEN BROTHER!. Geez the least they could do is see if marvel was
>interested in producing a new series before going to some Canadian
>animation company. The Characters are just plain ugly, the writing is boring
>the characters are stupid,dull and an embarrassment to their namesakes.
Ugly?!?! Hello?!?! Have you seen the show? It's some of the best
animation ever!
<lots of pointless talk about how the BW charaters don't have
personalties>
>. You can have your beast wars. ill give the
>Beast Wars a chance but they will never be as good as the original
>Transformers
Sounds like you've already made up your mind after roughly 40 minutes
of the show.
>Autobots Roll out!
>Richard Hudson
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Neukam, sco...@viaduct.custom.net
Bluestreak@#transformers
Hey, I didn't volunteer for this geeky assignment! - Frenzy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fill in your name here
Gregg T. Allinson (ros...@wwa.com) wrote:
: Fill in your name here (ye...@is2.nyu.edu) wrote:
:
: I have Megatron, Op Primal, and Tarantulas. All three are very awkward
: not waether or not kids have fun or not...he's missing the point of the
: TFs.
:
Are you kidding me? Op Primal is cool and very posable. Megatron
more so, I like doing poses with his head turned to the side a bit, his
cannon raised with his elbows bent slightly and his legs bent slightly.
He looks fierce and like he's ready for action! As for Tarantulus, I just
can't dump on him. Those 'leg' missiles are cool, I LOVE his grappling
gun and his posability is great. I've had these guys for about four or
five months now and their joints are as tight as day one (and I've posed
these guys a lot and transformed them to death). Just my .0243895 cents
though...
Trnsfrmrs
I am just trying to show you who the toy stores are really looking to buy
their wares.
Iggy Drougge
DanielM405 (danie...@aol.com) wrote:
: Julian Titus wrote:
: > Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast
: > Wars. How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way! Action Masters
: > was bad enough, but...THIS?! What about all the history? How can they
: > throw Alpha Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain? There MUST
: > be others out there who feel the same!
Hasbro has never been bonded by the cartoon or comic, and has never cared
about what they wrote as long as they displayed the same characters. The
cartoon has been dead for almost 10 years, the comic for 2 years. BTW,
how do you know that Unicron et al have been thrown out, this might just
be one subgroup.
: When I first heard about Hasbro and Kenner doing this, I was outraged. I
: mean, Transformers were vehicles, for the most part. There were the
: Dinobots, Insecticons, Sparkacons, Predacons, Seacons, and others, but for
: the most part they were vehicles. I still hate the fact that they
: butchered Prime's good name, Optimus Primal, god!
Vehicles didn't sell very well, but Hasbro looked around and thought
"Gee, these vehicles that sold so much aren't selling very much nowadays,
but all those animals do... Perhaps the vehicles should be animals instead?"
: But, think of this as the Next Generation of Transformers. For years, in
: fact, more than half of their 7 seasons, most TOS fans hated TNG. Now,
: TNG fans hate DS9 and Voyager, because they are not giving them the chance
: that they gave TNG. Things are always changing and nothing ever stays the
: same. Mr. DiTillo came on here and told us that we are not the target
: audience. They like that we are here, but quite frankly we CANNOT support
: the toy line by ourselves. For a toy line to survive, it must appeal to
: children.
We are 5% of the buyers, at the most. HasKen can manage without us, but
not without the other 95%, children.
TNG is a good show to survive on its own, and so is BW.
: I have been a fan of the Transformers for more than eleven years. They
: were my friends when I didn't have them. I think we need to have open
: minds and if, after seeing the full production, daily/weekly cartoon, we
: still don't like it, fine. But it is far too early to hate it and want it
: to die. Face it, Beast Wars are hot items. I have heard more than one
: child scream, "Look at these new Transformers! They are so cool!"
: Target, K-Mart, Toys 'R Us, Walgreens, every place that sells them cannot
: keep them on the shelf here.
It'd be great to see TFs once again becoming a hot item, like they once
were. The vehicles can't achieve this, let's hope the animals can. I just
hope there'll be a comic for us who don't like the cartoon.
: The one thing I wish they would do is make up quotes. The quotes told us
: more about them than the few sentences below.
Feh, we've not been having any quotes since G2 started.
--
=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=->X<-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-
// Mail: opt...@canit.se Y Transformer collector| //
\X/ Mail: unn...@algonet.se | Amiga user | \X/
WWW: http://www.canit.se/~optimus | Sonic Code: Sal+++!^ |SWEDEN RULES!!!
Iggy Drougge
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not look good on the
: real collectors. Why are you buying them? For your kids?
Ummm, what in the world do you think G1 or G2 was aired at? Kids, all the
toys and cartoons were for kids, and so was the comic. Yet, we like them,
so why not BW? It isn't old, and so contains no nostalgic value?
--
__/\________________ __ ______ _____________________________
\/ /_ /\__ /\_ _// // //\ /\ / ____________________________\
/ / / / __/ / / / / // / / // / / // / __ __
/ /_/ / / __/ / / / // / / // /_/ // / alias | | _' | _' |__|
/_____/ /_/ /_/ /_//_/\/_/ \_____\\ \ | |__| |__| .__|
________________________________________\ \ D r o u g g e
\_________________________________________/
Iggy Drougge
Richard Hudson (rich...@kiowa.wildstar.net) wrote:
: In article <4o0o08$d...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
: Julian Titus <TGP...@prodigy.com> wrote:
: >Being a Transformers fan since the very start, I am apalled at Beast Wars.
: > How DARE they alter my heroes in such a way! Action Masters was bad
: >enough, but...THIS?! What about all the history? How can they throw Alpha
: >Trion, the Matrix, and Unicron down the drain? There MUST be others out
: >there who feel the same!
: AMEN BROTHER!. Geez the least they could do is see if marvel was
: interested in producing a new series before going to some Canadian
: animation company. The Characters are just plain ugly, the writing is boring
: the characters are stupid,dull and an embarrassment to their namesakes.
: The entire idea of Beast Wars is stupid. Where are the transformers with
: speical powers like Ironhide, who could shoot and liquid out of his handa
: or Tracks who could fly <a speical talent for an Autobot> or Rumble who
: could turn his arms into pile drivers. And where are the personaliies.
: These characters seem one dimentional compared to their Autobot and
: Deceptcon comuterparts. I mean would the REAL Megatron ould say something
: like "Sneaky underhanded trick ho ho ho. I like that pussycat yes!" No he
: would have used his fusion cannon to blast the sucker. Rattrap is an
: annoy7ing meld of the worst qualties of Bumblebee and Rumble, both of
: which are transformers that i really like.Secondly who could theis "next step
: in Transformers eveloution take place in only 200 years when the average
: life span of your average Cybertronian is about 10 or 15 million years. Plus
: why habe the Transformers have forgotten about Eatth when it was the
: prime lfighting ground of the last Auto-'con war. Also what are enegeron
: crystals. In the original series energeon could be made from any sourse
: of electricty including geothermal electricty oil and in the case of the
: Incecticons plain old grain. You can have your beast wars. ill give the
: Beast Wars a chance but they will never be as good as the original
Listen, I wasn't really sure anout if I should reply to this, but I fell
for it, even though your letter is just another anti-BW-rambling, which
should have more thought put into it.
There has only been a pilot episode(s) of BW, so you have not much to
base your claims and judgements on.
The characters do have special powers, such as Tarantulas' machine gun
legs. These powers you value so much are to me just a try to hide the
character, and put the emphasis on the special powers. I follow the
comic, and there Ironhide didn't have any silly liquid gun which just
magically appeared from his arm, but instead a gun.
I have yet to see BW, but from what others say, it seems to have
characters. The Rattrap who you despise is actually one of the more liked
characters, and I think it's refreshing to have someone so small talk
back the bot leader. Sure, it's easy for Grimlock to do, but you'll have
to have some gut to stand up to a more inexperienced Optimus when you're
so small.
Energon crystals are Energon in crystal form. sounds no worse than the
carton energon cubes, which just opened up and absorbed catastrophes.
Getting it from grain is even more stupid.
After peace, which was the case when the cartoon left off, there's sure
to be some restructuring of the factions and administration, thus the new
groups.
Earth was just a minor battleground, with at the most 200 warriors active.
I find it refreshing that we won't see the old cartoon story repeated,
because I dislike it, and it would be a loss for such good toys to have
such a bad story written around them.
--
=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=
__/\__ /// /// __/\__
\ .· / /// / __ __ /\ __ __ __ __ _ /// \ ·. /
/_ o_\ \\\/// / /_/ /_/ /_/. /_/ / /_/ /_/ /_/ /_//-' \\\/// /_o _\
\/ \XX/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ ¯¯ \XX/ \/
=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=
Iggy Drougge
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: BW is a mutated hybrid of TFs! What happend to good quality!
Depends on what you call quality. If you mean that quality equals
"vehicle forms from mid-80s", then you're right. Otherwise, no.
SUZANNE M FERREE
msipher (msi...@nando.net) wrote:
: > I don't mind if
: > they add new "Beast Wars" characters, but they should be another division,
: > like Headmasters, MicroMasters, and Pretenders. Give me Megatron and
: > Optimus Prime like they were.
:
: Well, I do consider them another subgroup.
|sf>Well, here's what I've debated on...See, IMO, the first 4 years
of TFs are 1 division in my book (and yes, I *do* mean a litteral
book--my TF weapons book), the 2nd year Headmasters through the
anything before G2 is my 2nd division (I do that just so I have a
list of names in case I ever decide to buy a used TF), and the TF G2
are my 3rd division since my "blank book" only had so many pages in it.
On May 11 of this year, I realized that I hadn't put my 8
TF decoys in the 1st division of the book. I started off my trying to
squeeze the decoys into there, but then I saw how hopeless that would
be. Even though decoys don't have weapons, I also use the book to keep
track of what TFs were made, what TFs I have, etc. Therefore, I used
the first 21 pages from a new "blank book" to make a decoy section
(I also left some blank spaces on the wishful thinking that *maybe*
just maybe Kenner might be willing to release some new decoys. If
not of old characters, then maybe of the new ones...but I'm not holding
my breath).
Now here's what I've got to decide. I made up the G2 list
on October 21, 1994 (FYI, there's a place for the date in the beginning
of the book, so this isn't from memory >:) ) back when there were
enough G2s to really warrent a list. The G2 section still has
a bit of space (well, it's getting crowded on the M a-m page
& the O n-z page for obvious reasons) since I count only 96 G2 TFs
(not including non-US releases & including the Dairy Queen OP &
the Botcon TFs & the G2 watches & counting Smokescreen separately).
I have to decide if I should count Beast Wars as another division.
The 5 (10 if I include the McDonald's ones) BW isn't much to keep
track of, but it's the principal of the thing. Should Beast Wars
count as a new break in TF "evolution" or not?
: And as for Megs and Op... *which* "as they were"? They'd have a hard time
: out-doing Laser Prime... bloody shame Megs never got a new body of that
: caliber.
Actually, IMO Hero Megatron rocks & I can't think of many ways that
they could have improved him (In contrast, I wasn't too crazy about Hero
OP that I got. He has the "Look! Your shoelaces are untied!" syndrome
of staring at his feet too much, he's harder to move, and his stuff
just doesn't stay attached too well).
IMO the Hero Megs *is* in the caliber of Laser OP. Granted Hero
Megs is about an inch shorter, his weapon can't light up, and his
headlights (tanks have headlights? :) ) don't turn on like Laser OP.
Still, Hero Megs bends his legs, knees, waist, head, arms, shoulders,
elbows, etc. AND in robot mode he can stand in a cool "Sumo Wrestler"
type of stance :) (His belt just looks *so* much like a sumo wrestler that
it's way too cool! :) A cool Megatron...now *there's* a switch...I
haven't seen a cool Megatron since the decoy Megs & his fancy sword and
his arm-gun. Not bad for an old-aged Decepticon.) Both Laser OP
& Hero OP have a very hard time standing up in any position that even
remotely resembles a "sumo wrestling" stance.
Actually, I wish they would have done a new Starscream where
he could have had at least 1) a new mold, 2) looked very close to
his old style & color combination (cape optional. ;) ), 3) had actual
knees (no, not so he could beg on them...it's so he could sit down),
4) same basic face (kind of like how OP & Megs have basically kept
their faces w/ only slight modifications). However, that will probably
never happen now...
--
Suzanne Ferree (an alt.toys.transformers fan)
E-mail: sfe...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu
or: ev...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
or: s...@grex.cyberspace.org
SUZANNE M FERREE
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not look good on the
: real collectors. Why are you buying them? For your kids?
|sf>"Real collectors." Believe me, I could *really* do w/o "real
collectors." They're the reason why it took so long to finally find
Cheetor.
The "real collectors" are the ones who bought all the
Princess Leia Star Wars toys in town so that I've never even *seen*
one (I don't collect the new Star Wars...I just wanted the chance
to see Princess Leia and maybe get her only, since my brother's
old Princess Leia was the first female action figure that I ever
played with...but do I ever see her...Noooooo...they're all snatched
up by "collectors" who sell her for, say, $25 or something. :P ).
"Real collectors" collect stuff simply based on how rare or
how expensive something is. "Real collectors" are the reason why
the G2 'con mini-jets were $8 while their 'bot counterparts were $3.
"Real collectors" are the reason why I'm afraid that I might never
see Arachnidia (or however you spell her name) when she comes out in
stores. "Real collectors" are the reasons for the red-eyed Cheetor
& the blue-eyed Cheetor variation.
"Why are you buying them?" Hmmm, now I have to explain
myself...ok. I've gotten 5 Beast Wars. First, Iguanus. When I
first saw him, I thought, "Wow! This is $5?!? I was expecting
something a little bit smaller...or more expensive." I bought him
as a way to "test the waters" and see if I liked the Beast Wars. That
way, I could decide if they were worth the $5 or if they stank, I
would only be out of $5.
I like him. Therefore, one of the days while we were running
to Target to get marked down Cyberjets, Go-bots, and Laser Cycles,
my father got my Dinobot, my first Deluxe & my 2nd BW. I really,
really liked him (and I still do). Therefore, as a surprise present,
my mother got me Terrorsaur one night as my parents picked me up from
class. (My mother's reason--"You'd eventually want him anyway.") That
of course was my 3rd BW.
See, I love dinosaurs. I even have my own clay, styrofoam,
cardboard, & a plastic stacking table version of Dinobot Island which
I made in ninth grade. I still use it to store my Grimlock, Snarl,
Slag, Dinobot, Terrorsaur, and all the plastic & porcelain dinosaur
minatures that I've gotten through the years. However, the real dinosaur
miniatures can run anywhere from $4 for one which is 1/2 an inch to
1 1/2 inches tall to $15 a piece for one 2 1/2 to 3 inches tall. Dinobot
is almost 5 inches tall!
Which makes more sense: buying a $10 5-inch-tall Dinobot +
$5 2-inch-tall Terrorsaur or shelling out $15 for a porcelain dinosaur
which can't even move & is breakable? I'll also add that Dinobot &
Terrorsaur are fairly easy to find whereas it's very hard to find a
store that still sells the porcelain dinosaurs anymore (Hallmark sells
the chain, Thingsville used to, Coach House used to & a couple of other
stores might still sell them. They're called Stone Critters FYI).
I don't know if I'm going to get the BW Megatron, but getting the
little ones only makes sense. Didn't someone say that he's going to be
around $20? If so, ok, maybe *then* you'd have an arguement for perhaps
not getting it. Granted, the BWs don't have an Ankylosaur (and there
*was* an Ankylosaur in the Stone Critters that I was tempted by), but
maybe Kenner (when they get their turn next year) will wise up & do one
some other time (hopefully w/ normal, non-Beast Wars type TFs again).
For the 4th one, I originally was going to get Tarantulas
because of all the ranting that I heard about him here at a.t.t.
However, when I got to the store, I decided that Waspinator looked
so much cooler than Tarantulas that I *had* to get Waspinator
instead.
Last but not least, I spend about 2 months searching all
of Omaha, NE (and Bellevue, NE & Council Bluffs, IO) for Cheetor.
I *finally* found him in Iowa & since he looked okay (and since it
had been *such* a wild goose chase to find him) I decided to make
him my 5th BW.
As far as kids go, there's only 1 a.t.t.er who I remember
who ever talked about his kid & TFs. He was Omega Supreme@TF1
for the longest time & he used a nickname for his little daughter as
"Babybot." (His real name is Eric if I remember correctly...) I have
a file saved somewhere where he mentioned a time when he played
TFs w/ his daughter & she only wanted to play w/ 'cons so she made 2
piles of TFs...one for the 'cons & one for the 'bots and the pile for
the 'bots was away from her or something... That posting was a riot!
Now I'll have to search through my files to find it again...
SUZANNE M FERREE
:>sentance. They're *not* a gang of backstabbers, and that's one of the
:>I've been trying to make for years.
:
: Well, DUH! B-) Why did you think I put those words in your mouth, other
: than it's totally against the grain and thus (I had hoped) funnier?
:
: Or, to put it another way, why do you think I had Kendric of all people call
:Starscream of all characters a "sniveling loser"? (Hint: think MUSHing here)
|sf>Yeah, I caught *that* one. Of course, I've still seen a few posts
where Kendrick considers Starscream more of a coward than I consider
Starscream to be...(Of course, Starscream is my favorite TF/'con & that's
part of the reason why I'd never want to play him on a MUSH.)
I'm still trying to figure out why you picked M. Sipher & Diana
though...I know why you didn't pick Ivy (after all, she's said how she
doesn't like Starscream...).
SUZANNE M FERREE
Raksha (jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: In article <rjungDr...@netcom.com>,
: >>[BEAST WARS stuff deleted]
: >>
: >>KKC, why oh why, do fans love to hate?
: >
: > Because a bunch of fans all agreeing with each other is boring. B-)
: >Consider, which offers more group dynamics:
[agreeable example deleted]
: > Or...
: >
: > Kendric: "I always thought Starscream was a sniveling loser!"
: > Robert: "What? Oh, come on, that's crazy. Egostiistical, sure,
: > but sniveling? That's completely mangling his reputation, and
: > your characterization is WAY off-base."
: > Diana: "Oh, I don't know, Starscream can get pretty weasly at
: > times. Remember in 'Nucleon Meltdown,' where he had to grovel
: > for Megatron not to kill him? He was practically licking Meg's
: > toes at that point!"
: > Dave: "Naw, he was just distracting Megatron from Frenzy's
: > attempts to jury-rig the reactor. I swear, the two were
: > working together."
: > M. Sipher: "That's crazy! Nothing in the episode supports
: > that. You ask ME, Starscream puts on that sniveling loser
: > act to fool everyone into underestimating him. If you were
: > to put Starscream as Decepticon leader, you wouldn't see him
: > kowtow to anyone!"
: > Raksha: "Dream on! On the incredibly ridiculous chance that
: > Starscream can successfully overthrow Megatron at all (which I
: > don't believe, since Megs is the only REAL Decepticon leader),
: > bunch. They're all a gang of backstabbers anyuway, and you can
: > bet Starscream will go whimpering to the first person to kick
: > him down!"
: (Raksha flexes a set of talons) You had it right up until the very last
:sentance. They're *not* a gang of backstabbers, and that's one of the points
: I've been trying to make for years. Entirely the wrong words to place into
:my
: mouth......
|sf>Well, at least you got mentioned. I mean, Starscream is my fav & I
didn't even get mentioned... Hmmm, maybe I haven't been posting enough
pro-Starscream sentences lately...However, you're right in the sence that
I can't remember you ever calling the 'cons in general "backstabbers."
Dirge
paulw...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Paul Wright") writes:
-> > I like knowing that My Classic Sunny was never released in Europe or
-> > the US or Japan. In a way it's cool that My Gobot Megatron might be the
-> > only on in this country, but he's common over there. I like having a
-> > rare Aussie TF
-> I've seen a Classic Sunstreaker in the U.K. It was in this dealer's store
-> I know and AFAIK the guy he bought it from was from the UK too.
-> paulwright
DOH!
Are you writing this down, Rob, Andrew? Anyway I'd imagine Ironhide was
released there too. They were both pictured w/ Jazz, Sunny, Wheeljack &
prowl on the back of that comic I saw (I have no idea which one it was,
but I doubt we'd get our own comic).
Darren, hoping the UK didn't get G2 Megatron/Blast Off watches.
Trnsfrmrs
>>>> I just wish the figures were better-made...
That is what I'm trying to get at
Fill in your name here
Iggy Drougge (opt...@canit.se) wrote:
: Richard Hudson (rich...@kiowa.wildstar.net) wrote:
: : In article <4o0o08$d...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
: : Julian Titus <TGP...@prodigy.com> wrote:
:
goes:
:
: : AMEN BROTHER!. Geez the least they could do is see if marvel was
: : animation company.
Well, from the sounds of it, you actually have seen the cartoon.
You may think the characters are ugly etc., that's a matter of asthetic
opinion. However, I personally disagree, I think the work in Beast Wars
is gorgeous and most of the people I've shown Beast Wars too agree. As
for Mainframe Entertainment, they've already established themselves as a
good animation company with Reboot. Also keep in mind that Beast Wars has
only aired its pilot, there's more to come.
The Characters are just plain ugly, the writing is boring
: : the characters are stupid,dull and an embarrassment to their namesakes.
: : The entire idea of Beast Wars is stupid.
Personally, I think the writers did a great job considering the
restraints Hasbro/Kenner placed on them. The names of groups and
characters, the "Maximize!" and "Terrorize!" stuff was all Hasbro/Kenner's
work. I don't think the idea is stupid. Let's see, two teams from the
planet Cybertron crash onto a primitive world (and in 1984, Earth WAS
primitive compared to Cybertron), in order to continue their struggle,
they take on local forms and the battle rages on. Sound familiar?
Where are the transformers with
: : speical powers like Ironhide, who could shoot and liquid out of his handa
: : or Tracks who could fly <a speical talent for an Autobot> or Rumble who
: : could turn his arms into pile drivers. And where are the personaliies.
The Beast Warriors have special talents in terms of their
individual combat abilities. Optimus Primal for instance can fly, but it
seems his fellow Maximals cannot. He has his dual barrelled wrist gun but
he also has the twin swords (a carry over from the Bat Optimus Primal)
which he seemed to use pretty well.
Tarantulus has is leg machine guns which I still find really cool.
Dinobot has his spinning blade/sword combo of weapons and he seems
to be no slouch himself in the weapons department.
Rhinox is just plain strong and powerful (as we see when he just
kept running through rocks as if they were nothing).
Of course, we're just starting the series so there probably will
be more 'abilities' seen as time goes along.
: : These characters seem one dimentional compared to their Autobot and
: : Deceptcon comuterparts. I mean would the REAL Megatron ould say something
: : like "Sneaky underhanded trick ho ho ho. I like that pussycat yes!" No he
: : would have used his fusion cannon to blast the sucker. Rattrap is an
: : annoy7ing meld of the worst qualties of Bumblebee and Rumble, both of
: : which are transformers that i really like.
The characters did not ALL get the development they might have but
then again, I say again, we've only seen two eps so far. As the series
goes along, there should be much more development. As for the part you
mention with Megatron and Cheetor, it would have been a neat trick for
Megatron to blast Cheetor in that scene since he was in dinosaur mode.
Rattrap is (I believe), a civilian or a scientist of some sort (if
anything, an explorer) who has been thrown into a war he never asked to be
in. I think conflict in the Maximal ranks is good. Conflict is one of
the basis for drama and in order for Beast Wars to be interesting, it
needs both elements, conflict and drama (with cool battles of course).
Now if you got stuck with a bunch of Marines in the middle of
a jungle, far from home and suddenly, a war broke out and you had to fight
along side them with little hope of getting home anytime soon, how would
you feel?
Secondly who could theis "next step
: : in Transformers eveloution take place in only 200 years when the average
: : life span of your average Cybertronian is about 10 or 15 million years.
But as we've seen before, change does not necesarily take millions
of years. Think about the time between the original series and the
Rebirth Headmasters series. Between that time characters died, some new
ones were born, others merged with organics, some took on new forms and
other characters were forced to leave the life they knew to fight in the
Autobot/Decepticon war (Sandstorm).
Here I'll just reiterate something, the lifespan of the character
does not ALWAYS have an affect on the changes that happen to them. Look
at Blitzwing for instance, within five episodes (Five Faces of Darkness),
he started as the loyal Decepticon warrior and eventually defected to the
Autobot ranks.
Another example is "Starscream's Ghost". Within one episode,
Starscream went from taking over bodies to use to getting a new body of
his own to getting blasted all over again by Galvatron and the 'cons.
OR, for better examples, look at the conversion sequence in the
movie where Unicron reforms Megatron and his Decepticons into new forms,
there's some dramatic change in what, a five minute sequence?
Plus
: : why habe the Transformers have forgotten about Eatth when it was the
: : prime lfighting ground of the last Auto-'con war.
Just because these guys are Transformers, it doesn't mean they've
ALL been there. First, to re-emphisize, Optimus Primal and Megatron are
NOT the same individuals that we've seen in the original series. Megatron
the Predacon is just taking on the name of Megatron and Optimus Primal is
similar, but not the same name as Optimus Prime. Also, as Dinobot stated
it clearly, he could not believe the world they were on is Earth because
it was so different from the information he had on the stolen Golden Disk.
Also what are enegeron
: : crystals. In the original series energeon could be made from any sourse
: : of electricty including geothermal electricty oil and in the case of the
: : Incecticons plain old grain. You can have your beast wars. ill give the
: : Beast Wars a chance but they will never be as good as the original
:
Energon has always been a 'mysterious' energy form which could
take up a whole other thread to debate. The crystals are meant to be a
form of natural energon, naturally forming energy. I won't get into the
science of it but I will say this, this is one of those 'creative license'
things where for the sake of fiction, you have to suspend belief. Being a
sci-fi fan for many years, I don't have a problem doing this from time to
time.
Thanks for letting me have my Beast Wars because I LOVE them. You
don't sound like you're giving Beast Wars much of a chance at all. Sounds
like you hate them already and any view you take on them from here on will
be dim indeed. Well, to that all I can say is, it's easier to enjoy
something sometimes than to just go about hating it.
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: >>>> I just wish the figures were better-made...
Whew! What a workout. Okay, let's go at this again:
1. Average of 9 point articulation (something lacking in many toys
today).
2. Neat creature and robot modes.
3. Great detailing in the molds including wires, veins in the creatures,
bones (Bat Op), facial detail and fur and scaly patterns.
4. Weapons all form some part of the TF in both modes.
5. Easily replaceable ball joints if pieces break off (not that they do
that often, I had to deliberately pop my Tarantulas' arms off to
switch them, who was it that suggested that again?)
6. Cool transformations. The small BW's transform quickly but then
again, that's not an inherently bad thing. As for the deluxes,
I love their multi-step transformations and neat weapons.
Not bad for toys that 'need more work' huh?
msipher
On 26 May 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> I am just trying to show you who the toy stores are really looking to buy
> their wares.
(Sigh...) Well, NO SHIT. That's the way it's ALWAYS been! ALWAYS!!!! Just
because you USED to be in the target audiance that toy companies tried to
appeal to, DOESN'T mean that as you grew up, the toy companies tried to
(or even SHOULD try to) move the target group to keep up with you!!
Wake the hell up and realize that the ORIGINAL Transformers were ALSO
marketed to appeal to young kids, which most of us were at that time.
EVERY toy line is marketed to appeal to young kids, even more "grown-up"
lines like Star Trek and Spawn. It's a simple fact of life. If the toy
line also appeals to teenagers and adults, then that's a feather in the toy
maker and toy distributor's caps, and LITTLE MORE. The KIDS are still the
core that HAVE to be there in order for a toy line to be successful.
M "This Is Quickly Getting Pathetic" Sipher
Ivy Bohnlein
Kendrick Kerwin Chua (kend...@io.com) wrote:
: In article <4o21em$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
: However, I can't help but wonder if there's some way to avoid targeting
: five-to-ten-year-olds only, at the expense of the rest of the core
: audience. Forgive the generalization, but anime does a good job of
: attempting to cater to all sorts of age groups and tastes. There's sappy
: romance for little girls, violence and big robots for little boys, leg
: and cleavage for teenages (even the old ones :) sensitive and/or
: vulnerable guys for the women, and layers and layers of in-jokes and
: humor for adults.
Animaniacs and Freakazoid have accomplished this, to a certain extent. There
is no way that anyone can convince me that kids get all of the jokes in
Animaniacs and Freakazoid. Romance and cleavage is missing, however...
I think the best mainstream example of such a phenomenon is Gargoyles. It's
got a fair share of violence that kids don't ordinarily see (gouts of flame
pouring out of eyeballs to consume a guy's head, anyone?), references to
Shakespeare and other mythology that goes way over some *adults'* heads,
romance and jealousy subplots, magic and mysticism, political stances that
even approach balance (when the gargs are off to save the rainforest by
scaring off farmers, the human doesn't go along because she doesn't think
they have a right to force the farmers out of their livelihood), and busty,
scantily clad female gargoyles. The characters get fully developed and each
has a weakness and a strength.
And the kids love it. They eat up the show and they can get their parents
to buy them the toys. Of course, once it goes on ABC it may lose its
unique flair, but I hope not. If the Beast Wars show follows that lead,
it may take extra time and thought, but I think they will see a return on
that investment.
: KKC, quickly forgetting what it was like to be a kid...
No! Not you! It's a tragedy for us all. Quick, someone give him a
wedgie to remind him of elementary school.
Okay, so there are some memories we don't want to get back...
Ivy
--
===================== Bohn...@acmelabs.uhc.asu.edu =====================
"Christmas is killing. Killing is carnage. Christmas is carnage!"
"Well, 'the way things are' stinks!" -- Ferdinand the Duck
= Whiz = Tempest = TF 2005 MUSH! aptlabta.wpi.edu 5555 = Atlatl = Tytania =
Ivy Bohnlein
Fill in your name here (ye...@is2.nyu.edu) wrote:
Allrighty. I admit, I hated Beast Wars at first. And I still think
that most of them look silly - probably because of the realism in
their beast modes. I like simplicity and smooth curves rather than
furry texturing, but that's just me. And I happen to hate bugs.
But I did pick up a Waspinator out of curiosity, and I kinda liked
him. No big deal, but interesting.
Then, later, I finally found Cheetor. Hooray! So I bought him, and
just for fun, I bought Snapper too. Wow! I like cheetor okay, and
of course he is the more complex of the two, but I really like the
turtle. The turtle is just cool in his own way. His turtle mouth
opens, the TF is more complex than I expected, given the "one-step"
gimmick, and he can do lots of stuff. Of course, his head's in his
rear end in either mode, but that is the stuff of another discussion.
Could lead to creative insults among the Preds tho. "Hey look,
Snapper's got his head up his arse again..."
: Whew! What a workout. Okay, let's go at this again:
: 1. Average of 9 point articulation (something lacking in many toys
: today).
This was never my primary concern with toys, but I have to admit that
it makes them pretty fun to have around. The small ones even fit in your
hand, so you can take them with you anywhere.
: 2. Neat creature and robot modes.
Robot modes are surprisingly good, but like I said before, I don't really
like the creature modes.
: 3. Great detailing in the molds including wires, veins in the creatures,
: bones (Bat Op), facial detail and fur and scaly patterns.
Again, like I said before, that's kinda a drawback to me. I prefer smooth
and simple (just look how many of my TFs don't have all their stickers
put on them), and some of the details make the Beast Wars figures downright
*busy*. It's a personal preference.
: 4. Weapons all form some part of the TF in both modes.
Yeah, and cheetor's squirt gun even has lovely guts textured on it. If you
ask me, that was a detail that I could have done without. However, I
like Snapper's gun (which also comes from his rear), and the way Waspinator's
missiles fit on the underside of his wings.
: 5. Easily replaceable ball joints if pieces break off (not that they do
: that often, I had to deliberately pop my Tarantulas' arms off to
: switch them, who was it that suggested that again?)
Less worry about wear and tear. However, I consistenly pop Jazz's
whole chest/hood off when I try to transform him (I bought him thru
an auction and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong -- suggestions?)
and it goes back on easily. Same situation when I had to replace
one Hot Rod's head with the head from another.
: 6. Cool transformations. The small BW's transform quickly but then
: again, that's not an inherently bad thing. As for the deluxes,
: I love their multi-step transformations and neat weapons.
Deluxes really do have nice complex TF sequences. I like.
Ben, you need to save your list to a file and then send 100 copies
to everyone who posts a one-sentence rant that says "I have no BW
toys but they suck because they're not real transformers and anyone
who likes them is obviously not a real fan."
Yes, I still prefer my old TFs. But Beast Wars are not a tool of
Satan. If you don't like them, that's perfectly fine with me. If
you do, that's fine too. Now can we drop the subject already?
msipher
On 27 May 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> : >>>> I just wish the figures were better-made...
> :
> : That is what I'm trying to get at
Fine. You wanna start giving some examples as to just HOW they could be
"better-made"?
And don't even *bother* saying "make them out of metal".
> Whew! What a workout. Okay, let's go at this again:
>
> 1. Average of 9 point articulation (something lacking in many toys
> today).
Well, it's really *more* than that, isn't it? There are action figures
out there who have nine or more points of articulation... but they're all
*swivel* joints. The BW figures mostly have ball-and-socket joints, which
allow for a LOT more posability...
> 2. Neat creature and robot modes.
True. There's enough mechanical bits on each of them to keep them looking
robotic...
> 3. Great detailing in the molds including wires, veins in the creatures,
> bones (Bat Op), facial detail and fur and scaly patterns.
A lot of attention was given to the molds. Like it or not, at least it
shows they care enough to even *put* the detail in there in the first
place...
> 4. Weapons all form some part of the TF in both modes.
Both a bleesing and a curse... some do end up looking good (Snapper's
gun, Primal's swords, Rattrap & Terrorsaur's pistols), but there are a
few weak ones (Cheetor's intestinal blaster, Razorbeast's death toupee...)
> 5. Easily replaceable ball joints if pieces break off (not that they do
> that often, I had to deliberately pop my Tarantulas' arms off to
> switch them, who was it that suggested that again?)
This point got driven home to me just recently... mom let her friend's
youngest kid play with the TFs I keep in boxes under the bed (I would
have killed them both had he touched the Japanese ones on the dresser),
and I found them strewn about my floor, limbs all over the place...
luckily, nothing was missing, and everything popped back together.
However, it's now common law around here that NOBODY touches my stuff
unless I say so...
> 6. Cool transformations. The small BW's transform quickly but then
> again, that's not an inherently bad thing. As for the deluxes,
> I love their multi-step transformations and neat weapons.
I atually like the quick transformations of he smaller ones... it just
seems so smooth to watch.
> Not bad for toys that 'need more work' huh?
The only real thing I can think of to improve the BW figs is decals.
especially alleigance decals... although I can't figure where you'd *put*
them on most of the older ones...
M "Gee, This All Seems So Familiar..." Sipher
Robert A. Jung
In article <4o9qvo$3...@wampyr.its.uow.edu.au> dj...@uow.edu.au (Dirge) writes:
>paulw...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Paul Wright") writes:
>> I've seen a Classic Sunstreaker in the U.K. It was in this dealer's store
>
>Are you writing this down, Rob, Andrew?
Hadn't heard of a "Classic Sunstreaker" release until now, but it's in the
toy list now. B-)
>Anyway I'd imagine Ironhide was
>released there too. They were both pictured w/ Jazz, Sunny, Wheeljack &
>prowl on the back of that comic I saw (I have no idea which one it was,
>but I doubt we'd get our own comic).
Don't forget Inferno, who was also re-released as a "Classic" at the same
time, according to my sources...
Trnsfrmrs
I do like the Insects because they remind me of the Deluxe Insecticons.
Robert A. Jung
In article <4ocve2$q...@news.asu.edu> bohn...@acmelabs.uhc.asu.edu (Ivy Bohnlein) writes:
>>However, I can't help but wonder if there's some way to avoid targeting
>>five-to-ten-year-olds only, at the expense of the rest of the core
>>audience. Forgive the generalization, but anime does a good job of
>>attempting to cater to all sorts of age groups and tastes.
>
>is no way that anyone can convince me that kids get all of the jokes in
>Animaniacs and Freakazoid. Romance and cleavage is missing, however...
Feh. TINY TOON ADVENTURES did this years ago, and even included mild
cheesecake and unrequited romance, too. ANIMANIACS is but a pale imitation
(though Pinky and the Brain are neat B-).
>I think the best mainstream example of such a phenomenon is Gargoyles.
Feh. BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES (now THE ADVENTURES OF BATMAN AND ROBIN)
did that years ago. Even the "based on but not stealing scripts from" comic
book series has the same panache and flair for intelligent writing.
>romance and jealousy subplots, magic and mysticism, political stances that
>even approach balance ... and busty,
>scantily clad female gargoyles.
Wow, overt sexism from Ivy. Whotta concept. B-)
>>KKC, quickly forgetting what it was like to be a kid...
>
>No! Not you! It's a tragedy for us all. Quick, someone give him a
>wedgie to remind him of elementary school.
No! Get all your Transformers toys and meet us at the sandbox at recess!
Zobovor001
In article <4o9goj$c...@uno.canit.se>, opt...@canit.se (Iggy Drougge)
writes:
>
>: The one thing I wish they would do is make up quotes. The quotes told
us
>: more about them than the few sentences below.
>
>Feh, we've not been having any quotes since G2 started.
>
>
Are you kidding? Granted, some of them were lame, but I always liked
Windrazor's, "Show me an Autobot and I'll show you a hole in the ground."
Zobovor001
In article <4oclo8$a...@news.nyu.edu>, ye...@is2.nyu.edu (Fill in your name
here) writes:
>5. Easily replaceable ball joints if pieces break off (not that they do
> that often, I had to deliberately pop my Tarantulas' arms off to
> switch them, who was it that suggested that again?)
Guilty as charged. :)
Hey, at least his claws bend at the elbow without them being on
backwards...
Fill in your name here
msipher (msi...@nando.net) wrote:
:
[snippy]
: > 1. Average of 9 point articulation (something lacking in many toys
: > today).
: Well, it's really *more* than that, isn't it? There are action figures
: out there who have nine or more points of articulation... but they're all
: *swivel* joints. The BW figures mostly have ball-and-socket joints, which
: allow for a LOT more posability...
Hmmm, maybe. I was thinking Gargoyles, Star Trek, GI Joe Extreme,
Batman (all lines form BTAS to LOB), Superman, some Marvel figures and
Star Wars. Don't get me wrong, I actually like a lot of these lines a lot
but most of the figures in these lines don't approach the type of
posability I'm getting out of my Beast Wars toys and you're right about
that ball socket thingy, it's excellent!
: > 4. Weapons all form some part of the TF in both modes.
: Both a bleesing and a curse... some do end up looking good (Snapper's
: gun, Primal's swords, Rattrap & Terrorsaur's pistols), but there are a
: few weak ones (Cheetor's intestinal blaster, Razorbeast's death toupee...)
:
Death toupee :) hehe. Actually, I LIKE the intestinal
blaster...okay, let me put my gross side away now.
[snip]
: luckily, nothing was missing, and everything popped back together.
: However, it's now common law around here that NOBODY touches my stuff
: unless I say so...
Yes! I agree, I hate it when my mother's friends have kids that
come over, promptly rip my toys to shreds and THEN, the parents won't
reimburse me for them because "He/she is just a kid, they didn't know
what they were doing!". Grrrrrr....
: The only real thing I can think of to improve the BW figs is decals.
: especially alleigance decals... although I can't figure where you'd *put*
: them on most of the older ones...
Hmmmm...actually there are places. Some were shown in the show.
For Rattrap, his symbol being on his gun was fine by me. Rhinox's symbols
were on the sides of his head although in the toy I would not mind it
being right on his chest (yes, inside the Rhino mouth). T-Rex Megatron's
could be right on his chest (BW are detailed but there's NO way they're
going to make a decal to put the Predacon symbol onto the crest on his
head). Gorilla Optimus Primal could also have his symbol on his chest.
Scorponok's could be painted onto his chest too since in scorpion mode,
his chest faces the floor. There are ways to do it and I noticed the lack
of symbols too in the toys. I'm just glad in the series they found places
to put them here and there on some characters.
As for this being familiar, yes it is! [insert Twilight Zone music
here]...
msipher
On 26 May 1996, SUZANNE M FERREE wrote:
> : Or, to put it another way, why do you think I had Kendric of all people call
> :Starscream of all characters a "sniveling loser"? (Hint: think MUSHing here)
>
> |sf>Yeah, I caught *that* one. Of course, I've still seen a few posts
> where Kendrick considers Starscream more of a coward than I consider
> Starscream to be...(Of course, Starscream is my favorite TF/'con & that's
> part of the reason why I'd never want to play him on a MUSH.)
>
> I'm still trying to figure out why you picked M. Sipher & Diana
> though...I know why you didn't pick Ivy (after all, she's said how she
> doesn't like Starscream...).
I dunno about Diana, but I can take a stab at my little cameo...
1) Hey, I like Starscream, but a leader... no. In the remote chance that
the Decepticon army under Starscream even manages to hold together, the
sheer pressure of leadership would crack Screamer like a faberge' egg.
(Actually, that's a rather amusing thought...) I don't think he's a
sniveling loser, just in for a *very* rude awakening (or two or three)...
2) Do you honestly think I could go through a post without some smartass
remark, obscure reference, attempt at onomatopoeia, or questioning the
very purpose of my own damn post?
M "I Can Just See It, Starscream Sitting There Staring At Fuel Regulation
Forms, Inventory Lists, Personell Requests... Listening To His
Subordinates All Asking HIM For Advice Or Battle Plans... I Can Just Here
Him Now... 'Oh, Poopie.'" Sipher
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <4oam70$i...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu>,
SUZANNE M FERREE <sfe...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu> wrote:
>Robert A. Jung (rj...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: Or, to put it another way, why do you think I had Kendric of all people call
>:Starscream of all characters a "sniveling loser"? (Hint: think MUSHing here)
>
> |sf>Yeah, I caught *that* one. Of course, I've still seen a few posts
>where Kendrick considers Starscream more of a coward than I consider
>Starscream to be...(Of course, Starscream is my favorite TF/'con & that's
>part of the reason why I'd never want to play him on a MUSH.)
One of the joys of Starscream is that he's a coward when he absolutely
HAS to be. :) The rest of the time he's so busy being bull-headed and
stubborn that it doesn't even OCCUR to him that being afraid is a viable
behavior pattern at the time. :)
Maybe some people will disagree with me on this point... But 'snivelling
loser' might not be so far off for Starscream. The fact that he doesn't
lead the Decepticons makes him less archtypal than Megatron, against whom
all other evil in the story is measured. This makes Starscream more
three-dimensional than ol' Bucket Head, but less successful, insofar as
bad guys can archtypally ever be successful. When Starscream loses, he
fails in ways that we as human beings can relate to. When Megatron loses,
he fails in big, grandiose, melodramatic ways that generally don't happen
to your average person other than, say, Ceaucescu. :)
KKC, needs to break down and define 'archtype' one of these days...
--
"Three million lbs of thrust, laser-guided targeting - Kendrick Kerwin Chua
system, chrome wingtips, and pull-out CD player..." - mail kend...@io.com
A challenge to all who roleplay on Transformers MUSHes - see my homepage at
http://www.io.com/~kendrick for that and the Transformers Weekday homepage!
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960528...@bessel.nando.net>,
msipher <msi...@nando.net> wrote:
>
>M "I Can Just See It, Starscream Sitting There Staring At Fuel Regulation
>Forms, Inventory Lists, Personell Requests... Listening To His
>Subordinates All Asking HIM For Advice Or Battle Plans... I Can Just Here
>Him Now... 'Oh, Poopie.'" Sipher
Starscream: What's all this plastiform and data sheeting and paperwork
for? Tell me this is something Megatron invented to torment me with after
I finally destroyed him...
Astrotrain: It's called bureaucracy. Get used to it, cape-boy!
Starscream: But what about the dreams of conquest? The malodorously
melodramatic soliloquies? The w--
Thrust: We're evil giant robots. We don't care about women.
Starscream: *BLAM* I was GOING to say the 'war-to-end-all-wars,' you maroon
buffoon...
Blitzwing: Sorry, no wars-to-end-all-wars without a form TFX-68 in
triplicate sent to Ratbat for fuel consumption assessment.
Shockwave: Proposition-- I am skilled at useless processes and
mind-shattering tedium. Perhaps if I were removed from these chinese
handcuffs and given a position in the chain-of-command...
Weirdwolf: Want to I sign forms NOT! Smash Autobot scum want to DO!
Starscream: Are you ready for the punch line?
ALL: We're ready for the punch line!
Starscream: Times like this I wish I listened to what my primary
personality infuser said to me.
ALL: What did he say to you?
Starscream: I don't know. I didn't listen, you fools.
*rim-SHOT*
KKC, my that was a pointless waste of bandwidth. Remind me never to do
Randomly Assembled Gestalt Night here on the newsgroup. :)
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <4og9h3$b...@pentagon.io.com>,
Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kend...@io.com> wrote:
>
>KKC, my that was a pointless waste of bandwidth. Remind me never to do
>Randomly Assembled Gestalt Night here on the newsgroup. :)
Oh geez, it's been forever since there's been a good net-game on here.
And by gods, we need something worthwhile for a laugh here besides the
endlessly crossposted stuff and the politically charged conversation... I
therefore declare Randomly Assembled Gestalt Night at least once a week here.
If we can make it happen at least once a week, fine. More than once a
week is great. Less than once a week is not acceptable at all. :) Normal
people do it at LEAST once a week.
Those of you who remember Super Telepathic Powertargetheadglidemaster
Supreme MegaRodimus Prime with Onions know what this is. Name me any
number of Transformers: ten is ideal, six is probably minimum, gods know
what the maximum I can do without exploding is. :) I shall use my powers
of ego and runaway mouth to create an almost believable, multi-stage
gestalt out of the Transformers you name.
Well, what are you just sitting there reading innuendo into my posts for?
:) Name away!
KKC, wonders if anybody remembers Villager, the gestalt made up of
Groove, Ironhide, Skyfall, Brawl, Roadpig, and Scavenger... These days
they ride around on Broadside telling him what a great life he has. :)
Robert A. Jung
Oy. Your omission wasn't intended as a snub, Suzanne; I just grabbed the
first half-dozen fan names off the top of my head, and stuck random quotes
to them. And before anyone else wonders, the reason I had Raksha call the
Decepticons "backstabbers" is precisely because it's the LAST thing she'd call
them...
(NOW I remember why I don't write real-life people into my stories. Next
time, I'll stick to Donny Finkleberg and the Mechanic, howzat?)
Fill in your name here
SUZANNE M FERREE (sfe...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote:
: Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
[snip]
: "Real collectors" collect stuff simply based on how rare or
: how expensive something is. "Real collectors" are the reason why
: the G2 'con mini-jets were $8 while their 'bot counterparts were $3.
: "Real collectors" are the reason why I'm afraid that I might never
: see Arachnidia (or however you spell her name) when she comes out in
: stores. "Real collectors" are the reasons for the red-eyed Cheetor
: & the blue-eyed Cheetor variation.
[snip]
Nuh uh. "Real Collectors" are the people who buy toys because
they love them. The red eye variation is just a Kenner thing, they tend
to change colors now and then and the back of the card DOES say something
like "colors may vary". Cheetor was only hard to get because he came out
after all the other deluxes. Kids (and real collectors) had months to get
Tarantulus, Waspinator and Dinobot before Cheetor came out so of course
once he's out, he's going to get snatched up.
As for not getting Blackarachnia, don't worry. The deluxe BW are
all packaged in the same quantity, there's no such thing as a 'one per
box' in BW (unless all those boxes of deluxes I saw the other day were
packaged wrong). I believe each box of the BW deluxes has an allocation
of 2 of each character in a case.
With the possible exception of most of the originals, TF's do not
draw a huge amount of people on the secondary market. After hanging out
at rec.toys.misc long enough you get a 'feel' of what is rare and what is
not and what is hot and what is not. The disproprtionate pricing of the
G2 toys you mentioned may have been because of the store's pricing policy
or a manager's lack of understanding of which toys were which (which
happens more than one may think). G2 toys were never a big draw on the
secondary market, unless you count those weird Dinobot color variations
of course.
The term you're looking for is not 'real collectors' Suzanne, it's
Scalpers. That's how they're referred to by most of the toy collectors I
know and on rec.toys.misc. On r.t.m. 'real collectors' are considered
those people who collect toys for the love of it, not for resale value.
Scalpers are those who will buy a Princess Leia for $5 and sell it for
$25.
Ivy Bohnlein
msipher (msi...@nando.net) wrote:
: On 26 May 1996, SUZANNE M FERREE wrote:
: > I'm still trying to figure out why you picked M. Sipher & Diana
: > though...I know why you didn't pick Ivy (after all, she's said how she
: > doesn't like Starscream...).
Whee-ooo, I'm famous! Actually, could have been fun to have me talking
about how great Starscream was. :)
: M "I Can Just See It, Starscream Sitting There Staring At Fuel Regulation
: Forms, Inventory Lists, Personell Requests... Listening To His
: Subordinates All Asking HIM For Advice Or Battle Plans... I Can Just Here
: Him Now... 'Oh, Poopie.'" Sipher
"Where's the glamour? Where's the respect? Where's the power? And where
are all of the chicks???" -- Starscream in the above situation :)
Dan Campbell
Ivy Bohnlein wrote:
> But I did pick up a Waspinator out of curiosity, and I kinda liked
> him. No big deal, but interesting.
I'm curious too, but I think I'll wait for Buzz Saw :)
(Anybody else think Bumble Bee woulda been an okay name too?)
> Then, later, I finally found Cheetor. Hooray! So I bought him, and
> just for fun, I bought Snapper too. Wow! I like cheetor okay, and
Huh? I did the same thing -- FINALLY found a Cheetor (3 weeks ago :(,
so I "Snapped" him up :) and grabbed Snapper because he was there, and
the reviews people posted (thanks to all who did a review of Snapper!
You swayed me :) sounded good.
...Do you like trampolines? :)
> Could lead to creative insults among the Preds tho. "Hey look,
> Snapper's got his head up his arse again..."
LOL!
"There goes ol' Megamouth again...'Yeees!' Shhesh."
> ask me, that was a detail that I could have done without. However, I
> like Snapper's gun (which also comes from his rear), and the way
His and Gatorade's :) Anti-aircraft/airthing guns?
> Less worry about wear and tear. However, I consistenly pop Jazz's
> whole chest/hood off when I try to transform him (I bought him thru
> an auction and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong -- suggestions?)
Uhh, you're popping the whole chest/hood off? :| Sorry. It's nearly
the same as Prowl/Greystreak :(/Smokescreen, except you have to rotate
that chrome piece 45 degrees toward the body. Maybe the support arms
between the hood and chrome piece are loose?
> Deluxes really do have nice complex TF sequences. I like.
Yeah, but those Indian skirt front-pieces coulda been done better.
Wolfgang, Rhinox. and Cheets all look silly with these big ol' plates
hanging down from their stomachs, and those things just get in the way
on the newer two.
> Ben, you need to save your list to a file and then send 100 copies
> to everyone who posts a one-sentence rant that says "I have no BW
> toys but they suck because they're not real transformers and anyone
> who likes them is obviously not a real fan."
Gee, a new addition to my form flame :)
> Yes, I still prefer my old TFs. But Beast Wars are not a tool of
> Satan. If you don't like them, that's perfectly fine with me. If
> you do, that's fine too. Now can we drop the subject already?
*donk!* "Oww!"
Sorry. Heavy subject :)
msipher
On 26 May 1996, SUZANNE M FERREE wrote:
> Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Hello BW is targeted at grade school kids. This does not look good on the
> : real collectors. Why are you buying them? For your kids?
>
> |sf>"Real collectors." Believe me, I could *really* do w/o "real
> collectors." They're the reason why it took so long to finally find
> Cheetor.
Hey...
> The "real collectors" are the ones who bought all the
> Princess Leia Star Wars toys in town so that I've never even *seen*
> one (I don't collect the new Star Wars...I just wanted the chance
> to see Princess Leia and maybe get her only, since my brother's
> old Princess Leia was the first female action figure that I ever
> played with...but do I ever see her...Noooooo...they're all snatched
> up by "collectors" who sell her for, say, $25 or something. :P ).
Well, this is off-subject, but...
1) The Leia figure isn't all that great. She looks anorexic, and nothing
like Carrie Fischer (sp?)
2) I got mine by sheer luck, the first day the new SW came out. I walked
into TRU at lunch, as I often do, and there they were. I got one (only
one) of each, lacking only the Stormtrooper and C-3PO.
> "Real collectors" collect stuff simply based on how rare or
> how expensive something is. "Real collectors" are the reason why
> the G2 'con mini-jets were $8 while their 'bot counterparts were $3.
> "Real collectors" are the reason why I'm afraid that I might never
> see Arachnidia (or however you spell her name) when she comes out in
> stores. "Real collectors" are the reasons for the red-eyed Cheetor
> & the blue-eyed Cheetor variation.
Err... while your gripes are certainly justified, you're aiming at the
wrong group. You want to snarl at DEALERS (not all of them). "Real
collectors" buy toys and variations because they want them for
themselves, not in order to MAKE the toy hard to find, therefore enabling
them to jack up the price a few hundred percent, and try to sell it
elsewhere.
Did I pick up the only Cheetor in the store that day, even though I
already HAVE a Cheetor, only mine had blue eyes while this new one had
red eyes? YES. I won't deny it or apologize for it, because the red-eyed
Cheetor is for ME and ME alone. I've seen enough Cheetors on the pegs
since then to make me beleive that they won't be any harder to find than
Rhinox or Wolfang.
> "Why are you buying them?" Hmmm, now I have to explain
> myself...ok. I've gotten 5 Beast Wars. First, Iguanus. When I
> first saw him, I thought, "Wow! This is $5?!? I was expecting
> something a little bit smaller...or more expensive." I bought him
> as a way to "test the waters" and see if I liked the Beast Wars. That
> way, I could decide if they were worth the $5 or if they stank, I
> would only be out of $5.
Smart plan. I "tested the waters" cannonball-style...
> See, I love dinosaurs. I even have my own clay, styrofoam,
> cardboard, & a plastic stacking table version of Dinobot Island which
> I made in ninth grade. I still use it to store my Grimlock, Snarl,
> Slag, Dinobot, Terrorsaur, and all the plastic & porcelain dinosaur
> minatures that I've gotten through the years.
What about Slugfest and Overkill?
> I don't know if I'm going to get the BW Megatron, but getting the
> little ones only makes sense. Didn't someone say that he's going to be
> around $20?
Sounds reasonable to me... regulars $5, Deluxes $10, Mega (Polar C &
Scorp) $15, and then the biggies at $20...
> not getting it. Granted, the BWs don't have an Ankylosaur (and there
> *was* an Ankylosaur in the Stone Critters that I was tempted by), but
> maybe Kenner (when they get their turn next year) will wise up & do one
> some other time (hopefully w/ normal, non-Beast Wars type TFs again).
Only time will tell. I do get the feeling that we'll se at least one more
year of BW before they switch gears, tho...
> Last but not least, I spend about 2 months searching all
> of Omaha, NE (and Bellevue, NE & Council Bluffs, IO) for Cheetor.
> I *finally* found him in Iowa & since he looked okay (and since it
> had been *such* a wild goose chase to find him) I decided to make
> him my 5th BW.
Got mine in Alaska.
I traded a G2 Dreadwing from Kay-Bee for him. Thanks, Milo!
> As far as kids go, there's only 1 a.t.t.er who I remember
> who ever talked about his kid & TFs. He was Omega Supreme@TF1
> for the longest time & he used a nickname for his little daughter as
> "Babybot." (His real name is Eric if I remember correctly...)
I do believe the rough age of the general a.t.t. populace is between 18
and 25... natch, there will be those outside that range. As a general
rule, I don't think any of us would have kids old enough to play with
BW... (I still have a hard time getting over the fact that my cousin,
who's only a year older than me, is married. Why? Because he's the oldest
of all the kids on that side of the family, and so natually they all
turn to me and ask when *I'm* going to get married...)
M "Not With *My* Salary, I Ain't" Sipher
Paul Wright
>
> -> I've seen a Classic Sunstreaker in the U.K. It was in this dealer's
> > store -I know and AFAIK the guy he bought it from was from the UK too.
> -> paulwright
>
> DOH!
>
> Are you writing this down, Rob, Andrew? Anyway I'd imagine Ironhide was
> prowl on the back of that comic I saw (I have no idea which one it was,
> but I doubt we'd get our own comic).
>
Sorry, but we did get the G2 Megs watch. It came with the G2 Megs toy to
improve sales. G2 Blast off was never released in the UK
paulwright, wishing Australia got the Rescue Force plane and had some
left on sale :)
Dirge
rj...@netcom.com (Robert A. Jung) writes:
-> In article <4o9qvo$3...@wampyr.its.uow.edu.au> dj...@uow.edu.au (Dirge) writes:
-> >paulw...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Paul Wright") writes:
-> >> I've seen a Classic Sunstreaker in the U.K. It was in this dealer's store
-> >> I know and AFAIK the guy he bought it from was from the UK too.
-> >> paulwright
-> >
-> >Are you writing this down, Rob, Andrew?
-> Hadn't heard of a "Classic Sunstreaker" release until now, but it's in the
-> toy list now. B-)
-> >Anyway I'd imagine Ironhide was
-> >released there too. They were both pictured w/ Jazz, Sunny, Wheeljack &
-> >prowl on the back of that comic I saw (I have no idea which one it was,
-> >but I doubt we'd get our own comic).
-> Don't forget Inferno, who was also re-released as a "Classic" at the same
-> time, according to my sources...
Oh yeah. Him too. It's hard to forget him though, when he's right in
front of me, between Optimus Prime & Sunstreaker (:
Darren, still managed to forget though...
Zobovor001
In article <4oga5u$b...@pentagon.io.com>, kend...@io.com (Kendrick Kerwin
Chua) writes:
>
>Oh geez, it's been forever since there's been a good net-game on here.
>And by gods, we need something worthwhile for a laugh here besides the
>endlessly crossposted stuff and the politically charged conversation... I
>therefore declare Randomly Assembled Gestalt Night at least once a week
here.
>
>If we can make it happen at least once a week, fine. More than once a
>week is great. Less than once a week is not acceptable at all. :) Normal
>people do it at LEAST once a week.
>
>Those of you who remember Super Telepathic Powertargetheadglidemaster
>Supreme MegaRodimus Prime with Onions know what this is. Name me any
>number of Transformers: ten is ideal, six is probably minimum, gods know
>what the maximum I can do without exploding is. :) I shall use my powers
>of ego and runaway mouth to create an almost believable, multi-stage
>gestalt out of the Transformers you name.
>
>Well, what are you just sitting there reading innuendo into my posts for?
>:) Name away!
Okay. Howsabout a majorly egotistical gestalt (grimace) comprised of
Sunstreaker, Tracks, Powerglide, Warpath, Grapple, and Sky Lynx?
>KKC, wonders if anybody remembers Villager, the gestalt made up of
>Groove, Ironhide, Skyfall, Brawl, Roadpig, and Scavenger... These days
>they ride around on Broadside telling him what a great life he has. :)
Yep, I do! :)
"Megatron, I-I couldn't find Brawl's personality component. I didn't
think it would matter..."
--Swindle, "B.O.T."
Zobovor001
In article <4oal74$h...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu>, sfe...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu
(SUZANNE M FERREE) writes:
> Actually, I wish they would have done a new Starscream where
>he could have had at least 1) a new mold, 2) looked very close to
>his old style & color combination (cape optional. ;) ), 3) had actual
>knees (no, not so he could beg on them...it's so he could sit down),
>4) same basic face (kind of like how OP & Megs have basically kept
>their faces w/ only slight modifications). However, that will probably
>never happen now...
>
>
And what was wrong with Action Master Starscream, hmmmm?
msipher
Heeheehee... allrightythen, Kendrick, gestalt *this*.
Minerva
Swindler
Clouburst
Skywarp
Banzai-Tron
Boss
Sixshot
Twin Twist
Bumblejumper
Wolfang
M "Mwahahaahaahaahaaaaaa...." Sipher
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
We interrupt your regularly scheduled Beast Wars bashing and archtype
withdrawal to bring you some fun and games around here. For a change.
In article <4okbbp$p...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Zobovor001 <zobov...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Okay. Howsabout a majorly egotistical gestalt (grimace) comprised of
>Sunstreaker, Tracks, Powerglide, Warpath, Grapple, and Sky Lynx?
Sunstreaker in robot mode
Sunstreaker in robot mode + Tracks' wings and body on his back, and his
leg armor on each leg = Sunstracker!
Sunstracker + Powerglide with his legs folded up around his head
(inserted on chest) = Powermasterglide Sunstracker!
Powermasterglide Sunstracker + Warpath's treads on his feet and Warpath's
tank turret on his shoulder = Autoroller Powermasterglide Sunstracker!
Autoroller Powermasterglide Sunstracker + Grapple bent in half on the
shoulder not already occupied by a huge gun thing = Godbuilder Autoroller
Powermasterglide Sunstracker!
Godbuilder Autoroller Powermasterglide Sunstracker sitting on Sky Lynx's
back = Godbuilder Autoroller Powermasterglide Sunstracker with Cavalry
attachment!
KKC, gee this is fun... Am I the only guy out here who thinks about or
enjoys the Autobot/Decepticon alliance that supposedly came out of the
end of G2? I mean, for crying out loud, if you can put a Klingon on the
bridge of the Enterprise, then certainly you can have the yin and yang of
Prime and Megatron working side by side. If Decepticons aren't bad guys
then certainly compromise is possible. Gods know it's not possible among
us...
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960531...@student.canberra.edu.au>,
Ratbat <u96...@student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
>
>Ayaaaa, dinna get impatient, darling! OK...I will accept your challenge
>to present you with a challenge...I ask you to gestaltise...
>
>Grimlock >Kup
>Optimus Prime >Blurr >Ironhide
>Inferno >Jazz
>Bumblebee >Warpath
>Seaspray >Rapido >Nightbeat
Optimus Prime + Grimlockian power armor = Primelock!
Primelock shrunk! + Blurr's wheels and big shield on his chest=
Superspeedbot Primelock!
Superspeedbot Primelock + Ironhide as an extra trailer =
Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock!
Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock + Inferno transformed into high-pressure
liquid cannon in one hand and Jazz transformed into high-frequency
photonic blaster in other hand = Targetmaster Artfirestepper
Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock!
Targetmaster Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock + collective
intuition and knowledge of humans stored in BUmblebee = Pretender
Targetmaster Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock!
Pretender Targetmaster Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock +
Warpath attached to one foot and Seaspray attached to the other =
Aquatread Pretender Targetmaster Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot
Primelock!
Aquatread Pretender Targetmaster Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot
Primelock + Nightbeat's sirens and lights, with the rest of Nightbeat
attached to his arms for bulk = Roadrules Aquatread Pretender
Targetmaster Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock!
Roadrules Aquatread Pretender Targetmaster Artfirestepper
Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock + Rapido's color scheme and general
flippy hinges and stuff = G2 Roadrules Aquatread Pretender Targetmaster
Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock!
KKC, I like Shostakovich. I like Voguing and male dance. I like Scotland,
I like off-color humor, I like heavy metal, and I like Catholicism. I
also like Beast Wars. Just because I like something doesn't mean you
should. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean I shouldn't.
Just because there are limitations to your ability to accept doesn't mean
there should be limitations to mine.
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <jkink.3....@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
Raksha <jk...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
> Super Megatron
> Thunderwing
> Colossus (aka Clench)
> Double Punch (who is *not* Scorponok)
> SkyQuake
> Shockwave (not Soundwave)
> Deathsaurus
> and ... Seawing.
With Super Megatron at the core, take Thunderwing's aircraft mode and
attach it to his chest, and take Thunderwing's larger spacecraft mode and
put that on his back. Inside that shell place Deathsaurus with his
Rizardblaster cannon peeking out over the shoulder and both wings hanging
out like there's no tomorrow. In place of one of the hands put a Double
Punch folded in half, and attach Skyquake to that forearm. Put Shockwave
in the other hand, Seawing as a hip guard, and then fold up Clench's
robot mode as the engine on top of THunderwing's parts with the trailer
cannon just cavorting off somewhere in subspace.
Voila. Powertargetmaster Ultradevil Rotorforce Megapretender Supermegatron.
KKC, wonders why few people are comfortable mixing Autobots and
Decepticons. It's this kind of thinking that makes eugenics so appealing
to some perverts, you know?
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960530...@bessel.nando.net>,
msipher <msi...@nando.net> wrote:
>Heeheehee... allrightythen, Kendrick, gestalt *this*.
>
>Minerva Swindler Clouburst
>Skywarp Banzai-Tron Boss
>Sixshot Twin Twist
>Bumblejumper Wolfang
Hoo boy. Banzai-tron don't transform, so I reckon we better rustle him
up first...
Banzai-tron + SixShot split up into leg armor, winged jet pack, and arm
extensions = Hexpower Banzai-tron (make sure you pronounce it Heksupowah,
like you might in Japan. :)
Hexpower Banzai-tron + Swindler as a Battle-up! helmet, + Wolfang's fur
exterior = Winter edition Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron!
Winter edition Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron + Skywarp as a wrap-around
winged utility belt (he's getting big) = Teleporting Winter Edition
Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron!
TEleporting Winter Edition Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron +
Bumblejumper's special 'field of unavailability' powers = Invisible
Teleporting Winter Edition Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron!
Invisible Teleporting Winter Edition Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron +
Twin Twist split in half and on each foot + Cloudburst's Pretender shell
= Invisible Teleporting Winter Edition Autoroller Pretender Headmaster
Hexpower Banzai-tron!
Invisible Teleporting Winter Edition Autoroller Pretender Headmaster
Hexpower Banzai-tron + Minerva's big shoulder wing things and the rest of
her distributed over the rest of him as medical dispenser panels =
Five-Dollar-Bandaid Invisible Teleporting Winter Edition Autoroller
Pretender Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron!
Five-Dollar-Bandaid Invisible Teleporting Winter Edition Autoroller
Pretender Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron riding in Boss = Batmobile
Five-Dollar-Bandaid Invisible Teleporting Winter Edition Autoroller
Pretender Headmaster Hexpower Banzai-tron!
KKC, wonders who'll trade him small Predators and small Turbomasters for
Japanese episode copies...
Ratbat
> Those of you who remember Super Telepathic Powertargetheadglidemaster
> Supreme MegaRodimus Prime with Onions know what this is. Name me any
> number of Transformers: ten is ideal, six is probably minimum, gods know
> what the maximum I can do without exploding is. :) I shall use my powers
> of ego and runaway mouth to create an almost believable, multi-stage
> gestalt out of the Transformers you name.
OK...
> Well, what are you just sitting there reading innuendo into my posts for?
> :) Name away!
Ayaaaa, dinna get impatient, darling! OK...I will accept your challenge
to present you with a challenge...I ask you to gestaltise...
Grimlock
Kup
Optimus Prime
Blurr
Ironhide
Inferno
Jazz
Bumblebee
Warpath
Seaspray
Rapido
Nightbeat
Urac 'Ratbat' Sigma, you've only got me being *strange*, not difficult
(yet)...:)
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 'Normal is what everyone else is, and you are not.' |
| - Dr Tolian Soran |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Urac 'Ratbat' Sigma, E-mail me on u96...@student.canberra.edu.au |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Dirge
paulw...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Paul Wright") writes:
-> > Darren, hoping the UK didn't get G2 Megatron/Blast Off watches.
-> Sorry, but we did get the G2 Megs watch. It came with the G2 Megs toy to
-> improve sales. G2 Blast off was never released in the UK
-> paulwright, wishing Australia got the Rescue Force plane and had some
-> left on sale :)
Well, apparently we did get them. I never saw any, but we did get them.
None left of course.
Dasrren, shipped out the last Stalker on sale in Sydney today... (:
Raksha
>Oh geez, it's been forever since there's been a good net-game on here.
>And by gods, we need something worthwhile for a laugh here besides the
>endlessly crossposted stuff and the politically charged conversation... I
>therefore declare Randomly Assembled Gestalt Night at least once a week here.
>If we can make it happen at least once a week, fine. More than once a
>week is great. Less than once a week is not acceptable at all. :) Normal
>people do it at LEAST once a week.
>Those of you who remember Super Telepathic Powertargetheadglidemaster
>Supreme MegaRodimus Prime with Onions know what this is. Name me any
>number of Transformers: ten is ideal, six is probably minimum, gods know
>what the maximum I can do without exploding is. :) I shall use my powers
>of ego and runaway mouth to create an almost believable, multi-stage
>gestalt out of the Transformers you name.
>Well, what are you just sitting there reading innuendo into my posts for?
>:) Name away!
Okay, you're on! I'll start with something relatively easy:
Super Megatron
Thunderwing
Colossus (aka Clench)
Double Punch (who is *not* Scorponok)
SkyQuake
Shockwave (not Soundwave)
Deathsaurus
and ... Seawing.
Go for it.....
--Raksha
Mr M J McVay
In article <rjungDs...@netcom.com>,
rj...@netcom.com (Robert A. Jung) writes:
>In article <4o9qvo$3...@wampyr.its.uow.edu.au> dj...@uow.edu.au (Dirge) writes:
>>
>>Are you writing this down, Rob, Andrew?
>
>
>>Anyway I'd imagine Ironhide was
>
I bought both Classic Ironhide and Sunstreaker. The range ran over 2 years.
For one year it was:
Prowl, Jazz, Inferno, Wheeljack, Ironhide, Sunstreaker
Then it changed to:
Prowl, Jazz, Inferno, Wheeljack, Tracks, Sideswipe
Hope that sorts out your confusion!
Martin McVay
ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk
http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~mavai/tf.html - Transmasters UK Homepage
Thaddeus Cultt - Autobot Hunter
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.96052...@bessel.nando.net>,
msi...@nando.net says...
>
>I do believe the rough age of the general a.t.t. populace is between 18
>and 25... natch, there will be those outside that range. As a general
>rule, I don't think any of us would have kids old enough to play with
>BW... (I still have a hard time getting over the fact that my cousin,
>who's only a year older than me, is married. Why? Because he's the oldest
>of all the kids on that side of the family, and so natually they all
>turn to me and ask when *I'm* going to get married...)
>
stealing mine. Now if I can only get her to stop calling it PUMBA!!!!!! ;}
TC
--
/--------------------------\
| |\ |\ /| /| | Thaddeus Cultt
| | \_____| |--| |_____/ | | tcu...@localnet.com
| \ --__| \/ |__-- / |
| \ --___| |___-- / |
| | \/ | |
| | \----__ __----/ | | "It's time to bury the survivors!"
| \ ~-_ / \ _-~ / | - Thaddeus Cultt - Autobot Hunter
| | \ -/ \- / | |
| | \ / | | Yet Another Transformers WWW Page
| |_ \ / _| | www.localnet.com/~tcultt/tfweb/transfor.html
| --____\ /____-- |
| \/ |
\--------------------------/
Ken Schmidt
I have a special challenge for you Kendrick. Assemble:
Searchlight
Freeway
Rollbar
Chase
Goldbug
Wideload
Runabout
Runamuck
TopSpin
TwinTwist
into a Multiforce type group.
Oh yeah...make them posable combiners.
---Ken, elbows and knees and wrists and ankles..
these are things we don't need! ;)
Ratbat
On 30 May 1996, Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:
> Roadrules Aquatread Pretender Targetmaster Artfirestepper
> Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock + Rapido's color scheme and general
> flippy hinges and stuff = G2 Roadrules Aquatread Pretender Targetmaster
> Artfirestepper Supergodbomberspeedbot Primelock!
Wow, I'm impressed. :)
If you're enjoying these, KKC, then here's a bit of a stretcher:
Soundwave, Blast-Off, Onslaught, Swindle, Skywarp, Flywheels, Galvatron,
Thrust, Colossus, Bombshock, Astrotrain, Brawl, Bonecrusher, Jawbreaker
(Overbite to non-UK-comickers), Runabout, Dead End, Dreadwing,
Smokescreen (as in the G2 girl), Ratbat, Frenzy, Rumble, Blitzwing.
(The sum total of the Decepticon forces I own.)
Care to give it a shot, Kendrick? :)
Urac 'Ratbat' Sigma, Head On! God on! Wax on! Wax off!
carly
>KKC, wonders why few people are comfortable mixing Autobots and
>Decepticons. It's this kind of thinking that makes eugenics so appealing
>to some perverts, you know?
Okay, let's pretend that Megatron and Prime actually did manage to get their
charges to play together nicely. How about a jetwarrior gestalt? Say, the
Decepticon Seekers (Starscream, Skywarp, Thundercracker, Thrust, Ramjet, and
Dirge) join up with the Aerialbots. More importantly, who would get to be the
head?
Carly, who still hasn't forgiven her brother for leaving Superion on a bus
eight years ago.
Robert Edward Powers
Ratbat (u96...@student.canberra.edu.au) wrote:
: Smokescreen (as in the G2 girl),
Separate character?? Female? No way! I have a different take on
this issue.
Being home, and accordingly having access to most of my comics, I
took a moment to ponder this whole G1/G2 thing with everyone's favorite
depressed duo. Here's what I found...
Darkwing Dreadwind Dreadwing
G1 dark jet white jet combined form
G2 ATB, in comics not mentioned ATB in toy
Here's what I propose, in accordance with someone else's idea (either
Rob J. or Kendrick)... The big ATB plane is indeed Darkwing. The whole big
packaged thing they're selling at Kay*Bee is indeed Dreadwing, the two
guys combined. And that, of course, leaves the little guy (packaged and
sold as Smokescreen) as Dreadwind, Darkwing's eternally depressed
companion. It's perfect! They have very similar robot forms, with the
nosecones forming the chest of both robots, and both have the eyes/mask
combo on the face. I can just see the bio cards... "Dreadwind's dismal
outlook on life was compounded when he and his partner Darkwing were
rebuilt under Megatron's supervision. He now feels inferior to Darkwing,
due to his smaller bodyform and the subordinate place he takes when the
two combine to form Dreadwing. Though he retains his earlier firepower,
and has greatly enhanced maneuverability, he sees these benefits as rather
inconsequential compared to his loss of physical stature. The only true
gain he feels is being freed of his Nebulan partner, Hi-Test, whose
incessant cheer served only to drag Dreadwind further into his
depression." :)
--
Robert Powers of the Ever-Changing .sig
repo...@artsci.wustl.edu________________________
| SONG IN MY HEAD RIGHT NOW: |
| Spartacus, by Triumvirate (not Triumph!) |
|Friggin GREAT song! Too bad no-one remembers it.|
Colin Betts
Distribution:
Robert Edward Powers (repowers@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_DOMAIN_FILE) wrote:
> Separate character?? Female? No way! I have a different take on
> this issue.
> Here's what I propose, in accordance with someone else's idea (either
> Rob J. or Kendrick)... The big ATB plane is indeed Darkwing. The whole big
> packaged thing they're selling at Kay*Bee is indeed Dreadwing, the two
> guys combined. And that, of course, leaves the little guy (packaged and
> sold as Smokescreen) as Dreadwind, Darkwing's eternally depressed
> companion. It's perfect! They have very similar robot forms, with the
> nosecones forming the chest of both robots, and both have the eyes/mask
> combo on the face.
although i do not have dreadwind/darkwing in my possession, i do have the
generation 2 version of dreadwing and smokescreen. and i agree that
something has to be done about this mess. however, my argument has always
been - why can't dreadwind and darkwing merge into a single jet and
maintain sepearte identities. to me, it seems incredibly remiss to say,
well, here is a new vehicle, let us give it a new name. in my mind, what
is needed is an explanation of this complex relationship rather than
simply pretending it is another gesault.
in my mind, that means the generation 2 dreadwing is the ONLY version of
dreadwing. end of story. in terms of smokescreen, i have simply taking
advantage of canadian bilinguilism to solve this one. as some of you are
likely aware, due to the bilingual nature of canada, all toys
(transformers included) produced in canada for canadian consumption are
boxed with both english and french text. sometimes the names do not
translate well into french so alternates are used. in the case of
dreadwing, the french name for the transformer is "spectre". so, the way
i see it, i use the french name as "nom propre" for the smokescreen tf.
just my two energon clicks worths...
colin.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
colin betts I made my song a coat, covered with embroideries,
Out of old mythologies, from heel to throat.
carleton university But the fools caught it; wore it in the world's eyes
As though they'd wrought it. Song, let them take it,
ottawa, ontario For there is more enterprise in walking naked.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
cbe...@chat.carleton.ca http://chat.carleton.ca/~cbetts
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raksha
In article <4olqt2$m...@pentagon.io.com>,
>Raksha <jk...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Thunderwing
>> Colossus (aka Clench)
>> Double Punch (who is *not* Scorponok)
>> SkyQuake
>> Shockwave (not Soundwave)
>> Deathsaurus
>> and ... Seawing.
>
>attach it to his chest, and take Thunderwing's larger spacecraft mode and
>put that on his back. Inside that shell place Deathsaurus with his
>Rizardblaster cannon peeking out over the shoulder and both wings hanging
>out like there's no tomorrow. In place of one of the hands put a Double
>Punch folded in half, and attach Skyquake to that forearm. Put Shockwave
>in the other hand, Seawing as a hip guard, and then fold up Clench's
>robot mode as the engine on top of THunderwing's parts with the trailer
>cannon just cavorting off somewhere in subspace.
>
>Voila. Powertargetmaster Ultradevil Rotorforce Megapretender Supermegatron.
Okay ... but what's his personality going to be like? That's what I'm *really*
wondering about these bizarre combinations.... :)
>KKC, wonders why few people are comfortable mixing Autobots and
>Decepticons. It's this kind of thinking that makes eugenics so appealing
>to some perverts, you know?
Perverts is right ... I'd never want to see the Decepticons contaminated like
that ... but then you know I'm firmly against the idea of the "G2 alliance"....
--Raksha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soundwave@2005 MUSH: "The secrets of the Universe reveal themselves
to those who listen."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Dept. of Zoology, OSU
Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/1139
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Hudson
Here's a challenge for you. Create two diffrent gestalts featuring all of
the Autobot tapes and one with the Decetpicon taapes and create a single
gestalt from both of them.
JUSY CASSTETTS!
Richard Hudson
Andrew Crane
Perhaps, like the original TFs, the TV series` quality will be patchy,
but the comic absolutely great. (As in the Furmanian era...)
--
Andrew C
Fill in your name here
Beast Wars' quality looks far better than patchy, it looks like a
superior piece of TF animation work.
As far as a comic goes, there is no comic planned yet. Rumors
flew around for a while but none ever amounted to anything. The only
official 'comic' out there is the one that came with the two pack.
Trnsfrmrs
I think Marvel won't go with a comic maybe another company since G2 did
poorly & they pulled the plug
"Woo Who!" (Homer Simpson) & me when I find a TF on my want list.
Also kicking myself for not getting more Turbomasters & Predators when I
had the chance.
The Nixtr
QUOTING: The big ATB plane is indeed Darkwing. The whole big packaged
thing they're selling at Kay*Bee is indeed Dreadwing, the two guys
combined. And that, of course, leaves the little guy (packaged and sold as
Smokescreen) as Dreadwind, Darkwing's eternally depressed
companion. It's perfect!
RESPONSE: That seems to be how I like to see it. Smokescreen is just
Dreadwing renamed. But the ambiguity of it leaves a lot of other
possibilities open. (Smokescreen coulda been a Nebulan partner who
replaced Hi-test... was reconfigured for redesign. 'course this is
another-wouldly view than the comic universe.)
--
The Nixtr *** Transformer fan ***
Abortionists make a killing in the market !
SCAM ARTIST: Karb...@mail.dwx.com (he's a liar, theif, cheat)
Not for the normal: http://www.acy.digex.net/~thenixtr/nick0000.html
Colin Betts
just a question for canadian fans - is the beast wars cartoon on in
ontario? (ytv, etc.) i have yet to see it or have time to locate a tv
guide to see if it is on...
Roy Gutierrez
I live in Ontario and have seen the Beast Wars introductory shows, I
guess you missed it! Don't worry, everything will be shown in fall so
keep watching for it. Oh, by the way, have you (being in Ontario) seen
Cheetor or any of the new figures yet? I've searched about everywhere and
still can't find them.
________________________________________________________________________
Ryan Gutierrez
"My action did not imply loyalty, Optimus, I owed you my life, now we are
merely...even." - Dinobot (From the BW cartoon)