Death to BEAST WARS
Julian Titus
Look, all that I'm saying is that after twelve years they can't alter the
story this drastically. The Ark's probe scanned machines, that has been
established. I confess, I have not seen the BW cartoon; I never heard of
it. But, come on, people! I refuse to believe that this does not bother
true TF fans. Perhaps the young kids and Gen 2 fans will buy it, but not
me. Now, if they said that an earlier ship crash landed before the Ark,
and the Beast Masters remained in stasis untill now, then I could believe
it. Besides, the new bodies look NOTHING like the Warrior modes. If you
notice, the Ark's probe found models that resembled the individual
Transformers. That's why Op's chest looks like a semi cab. If some one
can explain why Op and Megatron look mutated, and its a GOOD excuse,
MAYBE I can buy into it. My second movie idea was much better, though.
Matthew High
Hate to break this to you, Julius, but like many others here, I've been
a fan of TF since the toyline began in the U.S., all the way through two
comic book series, three U.S. TV seasons (plus a bit), the movie, three
subsequent Japanese TV series, an aborted direct-to-video project, and
on through G2 and Beast Wars. I wouldn't say blindly loved it all, but
on the whole I've found something to like in just about every phase of
TF's existence.
That said, I'll admit that I was first pretty turned off when I first
saw the ads for the BW toy line. The background info given on the
packaging when they finally came out didn't help things much. However,
the explanations offered here on-line by BW show writer Larry Ditillio
and what I've seen in the two-part premier have raised my respect for
the concept tremendously.
Mr. Ditillio has been kind enough to tell us that even though the sides
involved are called Maximals and Predacons, the Autobots and Decepticons
DO STILL EXIST. The Optimus and Megatron characters in BW are NOT the
same as the earlier OP and Megs; they just have the same names. (To
paraphrase Mr. Ditillio, many people on Earth have similar or identical
names, so why not Cybertronians?)
I hate to see someone dismiss this out of hand without first giving it a
try. Before you call this project a total loss, go back, find and
carefully read Mr. Ditillio's posts. Have someone send you a copy of
BEAST WARS and watch it all the way through. Once you've done these
things and can make a more informed judgement, THEN decide whether you
hate BW or not.
Like my parents always said, "Try it once. If you don't like it, you
won't have to try it again." :-)
Doug Dlin
True Transfan
P.S. to Ben Yee: Sorry if I stepped on yer toes by jumping in here. ;-)
Robert A. Jung
Hey, if it bothers you that much, just pretend it's an alternate reality.
I kinda like the "official" explainations given here by Mr. Ditillo (I am
a little hesitant, if only because I want to wait to see the rationales
given on the show, thus making them canonical). My only remaining beef is
in having BEAST WARS start 200 years after the end of the Autobot-Decepticon
war; that's not enough time. A few million years, on the other hand, would
give plenty of room for memories to fade and characters to rise and fall.
I still love the original TFs, because (1) they're the originals, and
(2) the cars and planes crowd looks much more robotic than the Beast Wars
gang. But that doesn't mean I have to spit on Beast Wars, or hope that it
fails and send the Transformers name to eternal oblivion...
--R.J.
B-)
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"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are
amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine."
Send mail to rj...@netcom.com --Frank Zappa
Trnsfrmrs
I agree also. However Optimus Primal & supposedly Megatron are different
characters alll together. Beast Wars is just a mutated hybrid of TFs. It
really does bother me that they changed it so drastically.
aka INTERBOT
See you at BOTCON 96!!!
Message found on most TF boxes: "Extreme force is not necassary." (but
sometimes useful)
Fill in your name here
Robert A. Jung (rj...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Hey, if it bothers you that much, just pretend it's an alternate reality.
:
: I kinda like the "official" explainations given here by Mr. Ditillo (I am
: a little hesitant, if only because I want to wait to see the rationales
: given on the show, thus making them canonical). My only remaining beef is
: in having BEAST WARS start 200 years after the end of the Autobot-Decepticon
: war; that's not enough time. A few million years, on the other hand, would
: give plenty of room for memories to fade and characters to rise and fall.
[snip]
I like Mr. DiTillio's explanation too. As for scientific fact, I
tend not to get into that too much because the idea of a race of robots
who go around converting into different forms and having emotions and
total sentience is far beyond our scientific knowledge to create right now
(as I understand it, Artificial Intelligence is still in its infancy).
However, regarding time, I think 200 years is a lot of time. Look
at the 20-30 span between the time of the original series and Rebirth. In
that time span:
1. Many, new subgroups of Transformers were born (Combaticons, Aerialbots,
Stunticons, Headmasters, Targetmasters etc.)
2. The Autobots and Decepticons brought their struggle onto Earth and
became heavily involved with the population of Earth (I think a LOT of
EDC's development came from Transformers technology, feel free to dispute
me though).
3. Also, the Autobots and Decepticons then became involved in a major
struggle with Unicron.
4. The Autobots lost and then gained control of Cybertron.
5. Many warriors changed identities (Megatron-->Galvatron,
Hot Rod-->Rodimus Prime and back, Bumblebee-->Goldbug etc.) while some new
warriors were born (Fortress Maximus, Scorponok, the Aerialbots,
Combaticons etc.).
6. Along the way, the Transformers learned of their ancient origins as
military hardware and consumer goods.
7. The knowledge and power within the Matrix of leadership was lost
battling the 'red plague'(keep in mind how old the thing was, it's loss
was significant).
8. Some Autobots left Cybertron to become guardians of Nebulos (opening a
never entered doorway for a literal new world of adventure)
9. Cybertron was reborn from the ashes of war into a new Golden Age.
10. Many of our favorite warriors were lost (Wheeljack, Windcharger,
Huffer, Ironhide, Prowl etc.)
These are all changes that happened in the period between the
original series and Rebirth, now if we take a guess that this was a 20-30
year period, imagine what changes could happen another 20-30 years down
the line. Many people will argue that the TF's are millions of years old,
therefore it takes millions of years to change something significant.
However, such logic doesn't flow well with me.
Take a human being's life span for instance, on average, it is
supposed to be approximately 70+ years but does that mean it takes 20
years for significant change? In the the past five years, I've gone
through tragedies, which have shaped who I am, I've gone through happiness
which have had the same effect and for a smaller example, the transition
between High School and College was only one year but my whole world
changed when I entered 'higher education'. I am a believer that in one
moment, something can happen that will change your life forever (being the
victim of such changes many a time).
Soooo...getting back to the world of fiction, 200 years is an okay
amount of time I think, for the changes we've seen in Beast Wars. It's
not plenty, 1,000 would be plenty, but 200 is okay. Also, I don't think
the memories of the Autobots and Decepticons have totally faded from the
minds of the Beast Warriors, Optimus Primal and Megatron's names seem to
be proof of that. As for warriors rising and falling, well, just look at
the period I speak of above and you'll see that even in a 20-30 year span,
many of our beloved characters fell and new ones rose.
Just, once again, my .0245345 cents.
**********************************************
*Name: Benson "Ironfire" Yee *
*a.k.a. Wonko the Sane *
*e-mail: ye...@is2.nyu.edu *
******************************************
*Beast Wars Transformers web page: *
*http://pages.nyu.edu/~yeebe/beast.htm *
***************************************
"A treacherous, underhanded sneak attack! Ho, ho, ho, I like you
pussycat, yes!"
-Beast Wars Megatron
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: I agree also. However Optimus Primal & supposedly Megatron are different
: characters alll together. Beast Wars is just a mutated hybrid of TFs. It
: really does bother me that they changed it so drastically.
Ack, mutated hybrid? Nah, more like an offshoot of the
Transformers race methinks. I understand that it bothers people that the
concept of the TF's changed drastically (which I totally agree with, it
has changed). However, the old formula simply wasn't working and, as it
has happened with Star Trek, Batman and many, many comic books, a revamp
of the line was what was needed. We 'classic' fans may have a hard time
accepting Beast Wars, I remember being very resistant myself in the
beginning (no, really, I'm serious), however, after sucking in my own
skepticism and keeping an open mind, I actually found that Beast Wars are
pretty cool.
There's another thing to keep in mind, although I would staunchly
defend continuities and characters in Transformers, ultimately, they are a
toy product. To me, one of the strongest points of the Beast Wars are the
toys. That's the base I started form when I started re-evaluating Beast
Wars. I realized that the move made by Hasbro/Kenner was not intended to
hurt fans, drive them away or make us crazy. Rather, it was a good
marketing move to sell toys. In concert with the show, I expect Beast
Wars to be one of the redeemers of the Transformers lines. If we saw
another year of Beast Wars, so be it, as long as the quality of the show
and the toys was kept intact.
H. Jameel al Khafiz
TGP...@prodigy.com (Julian Titus) writes:
> Look, all that I'm saying is that after twelve years they can't alter the
> story this drastically. The Ark's probe scanned machines, that has been
> established. I confess, I have not seen the BW cartoon; I never heard of
> it. But, come on, people! I refuse to believe that this does not bother
> true TF fans.
Stop right there, you intolerant little pezboy. Repeat after me :
"There's no such thing as a 'true' TF fan." Defining 'true TF fan' as
'TF fan who agrees with me' isn't going to endear you to many people,
and I can think of at least one killfile in which you probably now
reside as a result of your ill-thought, closed-minded posts.
----
H. Jameel al Khafiz "I got a letter from the government the other day
Physicist-At-Large I opened and read it; it said they were suckers!"
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/usr/ha09/home --Chuck D
Robert A. Jung
Just to summarize arguments I've made before, but the main reason that I
think 200 years is too short of a time is because Transformers are VERY
long-lived. Consider Shockwave from the cartoon series, who's at least four
million years old, and has no problems with memory recollection and whatnot.
With that, having a measly 200 years for (1) Earth to become a vague memory
and (2) the main characters of the Autobot-Decepticon war to become epic and
near-mythological [as Mr. DiTillio has implied] is just not enough time. It's
fine for humans, who only live a crummy 50-80 years, but not for a race that's
been shown to have VASTLY longer lives and retention abilities.
(Though part of the reason for humanity's relatively short-term collective
memory can also be attributed to a lack of good record keeping. With modern
data storage and computer processing abilities, 200 years may soon seem like
insufficient time for us to "forget" things as well.)
msipher
On 24 May 1996, Julian Titus wrote:
> Look, all that I'm saying is that after twelve years they can't alter the
> story this drastically.
Again, just HOW has the story been altered so drastically? It's still two
groups of transforming robots from Cybertron searching for Energon on an
alien planet who have altered their bodies in order to blend in to the
local color (actually, there's a little more to it than that)...
> The Ark's probe scanned machines, that has been
> established.
So what? The Ark was destroyed in Five Faces of Darkness... not that
this really makes any difference. This isn't the Ark. These are TWO
completely new ships piloted by two COMPLETELY NEW CREWS in a NEW TIME...
plus, if you had seen the cartoon, you'd realize that the TFs HAD to have
animal modes, because A) mechanical life froms short out after prolonged
exposure to the planet's atmosphere, and 2) there ARE no machines on this
planet, aside from the stuff that came down in the crash!
> I confess, I have not seen the BW cartoon; I never heard of
> it.
Then go watch it. Maybe then you could come up with some valid arguments.
> But, come on, people! I refuse to believe that this does not bother
> true TF fans.
Okay, you've just hit one of my pet peeves... THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A
"TRUE" TF FAN, DAMMIT. TF fandom is not a set of rules. There are many TF
fans who like Beast Wars. There are others who like Action Masters,
Pretenders, and other less-than-popular TF groups. There are those who
prefer the Decepticons to Autobots... I just DARE you to call
pro-Decepticon people "not true fans". Then I'll sit back and watch the
carnage...
> Perhaps the young kids and Gen 2 fans will buy it, but not
> me.
Well, if the young kids buy it, then it means we still have a TF line.
> Now, if they said that an earlier ship crash landed before the Ark,
> and the Beast Masters remained in stasis untill now, then I could believe
> it.
Well, that's pretty close to what actually happened in the cartoon. The
Maximals were chasing the Predacons, went throught a time-space warp, and
crashed on a planet that may or may not be Earth. Remember, while this
series IS part of the old series' continuity, it is essentially a new
series in its own as well. (TF:TNG?)
Oh, and HERE'S a question for you... why would the BW characters HAVE to
come through the Ark? Only the first years' worth of characters actually
reached Earth via the Ark... almost everybody else after that were built
or just appeared, presumably from Cybertron.
> Besides, the new bodies look NOTHING like the Warrior modes.
Huh?
> If you
> notice, the Ark's probe found models that resembled the individual
> Transformers. That's why Op's chest looks like a semi cab.
Err... I'm not sure this is even an argument... in fact, I'm not sure
what the point of this *is*. We never really saw the pre-Beast-mode
TFs... they were purposely hidden in shadows. I would assume that the
animal forms that the ships picked were forms appropriate to the
individual TFs.
And, the only reason the Earth vehicles chosen for the first year
actually LOOKED like the TFs' bodies is because the animators were too
lazy to make the pre-Earth TFs' robot modes look Cybertronian...
(actually, I'm pretty sure that there's a pretty good reason for this...
although one of these days I will follow through and draw Jazz,
Bumblebee, Starscream, and Wheeljack as they SHOULD have looked on
Cybertron (no Earthen vehicle bits in robot mode).)
> If some one
> can explain why Op and Megatron look mutated, and its a GOOD excuse,
> MAYBE I can buy into it.
Err... because the Op & Megs in BW are (say it with me now kids)... NOT
THE CHARACTERS OF OLD!!! THEY'RE TWO COMPLETELY NEW INDIVIDUALS!!!
> My second movie idea was much better, though.
Well, just telling us that isn't going to convince anyone... why not
write it down and present it as fanfic?
Actually, now that I think about it... how in the hell can you say your
idea was better when you haven't even seen what the plot of the new
series *IS*?!
M "How Many Times Have I Been Down THIS Road" Sipher
Fill in your name here
: think 200 years is too short of a time is because Transformers are VERY
: long-lived. Consider Shockwave from the cartoon series, who's at least four
: million years old, and has no problems with memory recollection and whatnot.
I think I may have put up a post elsewhere saying basically what
I'm about to say so I'll make it quick. 200 years is not a 'measly' bit
of time even in Transformer terms. Just because TF's can live to be
millions of years old, that means nothing. Things can change in one day
to the next. Time just works like that. Think about the massive events
between the original series and 'Rebirth'. Or, if you want to go on
another track, think about the changes between the original series and
say, Micromaster Zone.
: With that, having a measly 200 years for (1) Earth to become a vague memory
: and (2) the main characters of the Autobot-Decepticon war to become epic and
: near-mythological [as Mr. DiTillio has implied] is just not enough time. It's
: fine for humans, who only live a crummy 50-80 years, but not for a race that's
: been shown to have VASTLY longer lives and retention abilities.
:
Well, it's not that the names are necesarily mythological. For
all we know, Optimus Prime is back on Cybertron as high commander of the
Autobot/Maximal council. Earth is not a vague memory because Dinobot
quite clearly stated that Earth was the location where the Preds were
headed. Using the Golden Disk to find it is not really an indicator that
they forgot where the world was because you're assuming they knew where it
was to begin with.
Take Nebulos in the Rebirth for instance. Many Autobots and
Decepticons went there and its location is probaly stored in some computer
somewhere but let's say we asked Goldbug or the Technobots to go there,
they'd probably have to dig that information up before going there. It's
not a matter of retention, it's just that they've never been there and no
matter how good your memory banks are, when you're doing something for the
first time (especially hopping around the galaxy), it might cause one to
feel unsure at first about the trip there and what one might expect to
find once one arrvies there.
In the case of the Maximals and Predacons, they seem to have
little knowledge of Earth besides the Golden Disk and maybe past memories
recorded by those Autobots who had been there before. This doesn't mean
Earth's been totally forgotten, it just means that they may have been on
Cybertron duking it out with each other or enjoying the peace time etc.
without ever giving Earth any thought or concern until the Preds stole the
Golden Disk.
Fill in your name here
Julian Titus (TGP...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Look, all that I'm saying is that after twelve years they can't alter the
: established. I confess, I have not seen the BW cartoon; I never heard of
: it.
First of all, HOW is the story altered?! Two races from the
planet Cybertron crash onto a world and take on local forms and continue
their battles. One side is bent on conquest, the other intent on stopping
the other from taking over the galaxy. The races each are robots who have
the capability to transform into different forms. What's changed in the
basic concept?
Also, you seem to like judging things before you've dealt with
them (oh, where has open mindedness gone to in our world?). How can you
judge Beast Wars without even knowning what the toys are like OR having
even seen or "heard of" the cartoon? You know that saying "Don't judge a
book by its cover?", it applies here. Don't judge something just by
hateful statements from other fans here or just the initial shock over the
new storyline Beast Wars follows. Give it a chance first I say.
But, come on, people! I refuse to believe that this does not bother
: true TF fans. Perhaps the young kids and Gen 2 fans will buy it, but not
: me.
Okay, two primary comments here. Prepare for a bit of not nice
yelling. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 'TRUE' TRANSFORMERS FAN!!!
Transformers fans are people who like TF's and that's it! If you only
like Generation One, fine, you're a TF fan, if you only like Action
Masters, FINE, you're a TF fan. As long as the TF's appeal in some way to
you in some form, fine, you're a fan. However, just because many fans
(INCLUDING MYSELF) like Beast Wars, it doesn't make us 'FAKE' fans!
Personally, it upsets me to see that some people judge fans. I have said
it before and I will say it again, judge the toy lines, judge the cartoons
and argue about FIRRIB all you want but don't judge other fans unless
they've hurt you personally, it's just NOT fair to anyone here and is a
very negative statement on yourself that you must judge fans by calling
them 'fake' or 'true'. Sheesh...
As for kids and G2 fans, I was a kid once when I first enjoyed the
TF's back with Generation 1 and I have loved TF's from Gen 2 on. My
question regarding this particular piece of your thread is have you even
played with one of the toys yet? You can't go judging something until you
know something about it and I think that the Beast Wars are great toys.
They have wonderful designs, neat creature and robot modes, neat
transformations and I don't feel cheated when I pay the $10 for the
deluxes or the $5 for the minis. To me, it's worth it. Give something a
try before judging it I say.
Now, if they said that an earlier ship crash landed before the Ark,
: and the Beast Masters remained in stasis untill now, then I could believe
: it. Besides, the new bodies look NOTHING like the Warrior modes. If you
: notice, the Ark's probe found models that resembled the individual
: Transformers. That's why Op's chest looks like a semi cab. If some one
: can explain why Op and Megatron look mutated, and its a GOOD excuse,
: MAYBE I can buy into it. My second movie idea was much better, though.
Okay, I don't know exactly how to follow this section up but I
take your meaning as Optimus Primal and Megatron don't look like the
original ones we've known for 10+ years. Well dude, there's a good reason
for that. Beast Wars Optimus Primal and Megatron ARE NOT THE SAME
CHARACTERS AS THE ORIGINAL ONES!! They are new warriors who have taken on
the names to honor the original Autobot and Decepticon leaders with those
names. So you don't have to see this as an 'excuse' this is the REASON
for their appearance!
As for their forms, in Beast Wars the original Cybertronian forms
of the Beast Warriors are deliberately kept in shadows before they crash.
In the original series, I always found it a bit inplausible how the
Autobots and Decepticons had earth like bits on them that didn't go
anywhere when they transformed. Bumblebee for instance had his little
belly (the roof and passenger section of his earthen vehicle form) and he
transformed into a flat vehicle form. The Decepticon jets
had wings on their backs but when they transformed, they became the
triangular ships with no flat wings sticking out. My point here is that
when it comes to prior 'Cybertronian' forms, the original series wasn't
perfect about it.
As for your second movie idea, it may be great. However, you
simply cannot say that your idea is better than Beast Wars if you've never
even SEEN Beast Wars and we fans (those of us who judge fairly) cannot
critique your fiction until we know what it's all about. My point here
is, once again, don't judge a book by it's cover. It sounds like you
heard about Beast Wars, maybe have seen the toys, read the back of the
package and not seen the cartoon and have already formed a judgement. Not
knowing that BW Megatron and Optimus Primal are different from the
original is showing that you really haven't learned too much about Beast
Wars before judging it. There's nothing wrong with not liking the Beast
Wars, but find out more about them and their merits before you decide to
go on a campaign of hatred or 'Death' as your post indicates you want to.
You may learn to enjoy this new line.
Zobovor001
In article <rjungDr...@netcom.com>, rj...@netcom.com (Robert A. Jung)
writes:
>
> Just to summarize arguments I've made before, but the main reason that
I
>think 200 years is too short of a time is because Transformers are VERY
>long-lived. Consider Shockwave from the cartoon series, who's at least
four
>million years old, and has no problems with memory recollection and
whatnot.
Actually, Shockwave appeared with early Megatron in "War Dawn", which
would make him about nine million years old. (Okay, so I'm a stickler for
chonology.)
> With that, having a measly 200 years for (1) Earth to become a vague
memory
>and (2) the main characters of the Autobot-Decepticon war to become epic
and
>near-mythological [as Mr. DiTillio has implied] is just not enough time.
>It's
>fine for humans, who only live a crummy 50-80 years, but not for a race
>that's
>been shown to have VASTLY longer lives and retention abilities.
What kind of retention abilities? Water-retention, anal-retention, it's
important we know! :)
> (Though part of the reason for humanity's relatively short-term
collective
>memory can also be attributed to a lack of good record keeping. With
modern
>data storage and computer processing abilities, 200 years may soon seem
like
>insufficient time for us to "forget" things as well.)
Maybe the Transformers just had better things to do.
Another possilibity is that out of all the "alien" planets the
Transformers visit, they may not remember them all. Granted, Earth is a
very energy-rich planet, but that only makes it about as important as
Paratron. Earth may be important to Optimus Prime and Bumblebee and
Megatron and Starscream. In the same way (i.e., which planet has had the
most significant effect on a character's life), Quintessa might be more
important to Wheelie; Torqulon might be important to Galvatron, Titan
might be important to Jazz; Eurhythma might be important to Blaster;
Menonia might be important to Daniel Witwicky (okay, that's stretching it
a bit; but we all know the poor kid practically *lived* on Cybertron!)
Transformers who have never been to Earth (let alone spent four million
years there) might just not care about the planet.
All I'm saying is... I didn't attend BotCon '94, so Fort Wayne has
absolutely no meaning for me... Get it?
Dave
Gregg T. Allinson
Julian Titus (TGP...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: I refuse to believe that this does not bother
: true TF fans.
It does a bit, but I'm a grown-up and can accept it.
: Perhaps the young kids and Gen 2 fans will buy it, but not
: me.
My first Transformer was Gen1 Bumblebee and I've collected (strictly for
fun and not profit) sporadically ever since, and I've bought some BWs.
Sure, I like the originals more, but for what Beast Wars is, it's quite
good. The time difference between BW and Gen1 makes the changes fairly
easy for me to accept, just as the time differences between the new and
old Treks and Doctor Whos made the revivals easier to accept.
: Now, if they said that an earlier ship crash landed before the Ark,
: and the Beast Masters remained in stasis untill now, then I could believe
: it. Besides, the new bodies look NOTHING like the Warrior modes. If you
: notice, the Ark's probe found models that resembled the individual
: Transformers. That's why Op's chest looks like a semi cab. If some one
: can explain why Op and Megatron look mutated, and its a GOOD excuse,
: MAYBE I can buy into it. My second movie idea was much better, though.
The reason is 'cause they're descendants of the originals from 200 years
after Gen1. This was the thing that finally got me to fully accept BW.
--
Half Human on his Mother's Side,
Gregg "Dave" Allinson
Visit the Scrapyard ("C'mon, Pop!") @ http://miso.wwa.com/~roscoe
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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In Memoriam
Jon Pertwee-The Third Doctor and A Dear Friend to All
7 July 1919 - 20 May 1996
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Save Doctor Who! Write FOX at Fox Broadcasting Company PO Box 900
Beverly Hills, CA 90213-0900 *and* fox...@delphi.com and tell them how
much you liked May 14th's TV movie! DON'T LET THE DOCTOR DIE A FINAL DEATH!!!
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Fill in your name here
Matthew High (ant...@texas.net) wrote:
: Julian Titus wrote:
: >
: Doug Dlin
: True Transfan
:
: P.S. to Ben Yee: Sorry if I stepped on yer toes by jumping in here. ;-)
What are you kiddin'? It's good to see someone backing me up.
Makes me feel like I'm not just raving here without anyone else agreeing
at all. I think it's important to make the distinction between judging
something (such as Beast Wars) without any information (or very little as
it seems in this case) and knowing about something and then speaking about
it objectively. Thanks for the backup Doug, it's appreciated. Errr...all
of a sudden I get this bad feeling I'm being a little too insistant on my
defense for Beast Wars...hmmmm...naaahhh...
CMauro3927
Guys, on Cyb, there are more factions than Autobots and Decepticons!
Trnsfrmrs
I could say you are also closed minded H. Jameel al Khafiz
Iggy Drougge
Julian Titus (TGP...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Look, all that I'm saying is that after twelve years they can't alter the
: story this drastically. The Ark's probe scanned machines, that has been
: established. I confess, I have not seen the BW cartoon; I never heard of
: true TF fans. Perhaps the young kids and Gen 2 fans will buy it, but not
: me. Now, if they said that an earlier ship crash landed before the Ark,
: it. Besides, the new bodies look NOTHING like the Warrior modes. If you
: notice, the Ark's probe found models that resembled the individual
: Transformers. That's why Op's chest looks like a semi cab. If some one
: can explain why Op and Megatron look mutated, and its a GOOD excuse,
: MAYBE I can buy into it. My second movie idea was much better, though.
I consider myself a true TF fan, and so do MSipher, Darren/Dirge, Benson,
etc. Yet people like you don't consider us "true fans". I am both a "kid"
and a G2 fan, but I like G1 and BW as well. The toys have never followed
any story, FYI, neither comic nor cartoon, and that is the case now as
well. If you want to go by the new cartoon, this can't be Earth, it
having two moons, etc. And it can be anywhere in time, since the
TransWarp can travel through time as well. They started at 200 years from
now, at least, we know that much, but they can be anywhere, anytime,
they don't even know themselves. And the new OP and Megs aren't the same.
--
____ ____ ____ __ ____ ____ ____ __ ____ __ __ ____
/ // . //_ //_// \ / / // _ / /_ \ __ /_ / /_/ / \ / . /
/ / // __/ / // // / / // / //\ \/ __/ / \/ / __/ / / / / / / __/
/___//_/ /_//_//_/_/_/ \__//___/ /___/ /___/ /_/ /_/_/ /___/
Robert A. Jung
In article <4o7c5c$u...@news.nyu.edu> ye...@is2.nyu.edu (Fill in your name here) writes:
>Robert A. Jung (rj...@netcom.com) wrote:
>>and (2) the main characters of the Autobot-Decepticon war to become epic and
>>near-mythological [as Mr. DiTillio has implied] is just not enough time.
>
>all we know, Optimus Prime is back on Cybertron as high commander of the
>Autobot/Maximal council.
We'll have to see how the "official" presentation is, but the sense I've
been getting is that the BEAST WARS cartoon is set in an era where Megatron
and Optimus aren't exactly everyday figures. *Shrug*
>Earth is not a vague memory because Dinobot
>quite clearly stated that Earth was the location where the Preds were
>headed. Using the Golden Disk to find it is not really an indicator that
>they forgot where the world was because you're assuming they knew where it
>was to begin with.
Given the importance of Earth and humans in the Transformers cartoon
continuity (the humans helped the Autobots early on, Autobot City/Metroplex
was built there, etc.), I find it hard that it'd be forgotten so easily.
Heck, unless the human race was extinguished sometime early in the 200-year
interval, I'd expect human beings to establish diplomatic ties with
Cybertronians, and keep them fairly active. With that much exposure, using
the gold disc to find Earth and to treat it with near-mythological status is
a bit of a stretch in only 200 years, IMO.
Trnsfrmrs
Were they really from Cybertron? Why do they have Earthly forms? And what
time is it?
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: Were they really from Cybertron? Why do they have Earthly forms? And what
: time is it?
:
Yes dude. Watch the Beast Wars cartoon again when it comes out
(assuming you watched it in the first place). When Optimus Primal is
explaining to Rattrap the importance of the 'Golden Disk', he clearly
states that it was "one of Cybertron's most carefully guarded relics..."
As for Earthly forms, they have those forms because (once again, watch the
show again for this, assuming you saw it the first time) the intense
energon fields in the atmoshphere of the world the Maximals and Predacons
have crashed onto are so intense, they will short out robot forms with
only a few minutes exposure. By taking on the forms of the local animals
who have no problem with the energon fields, the Maximals and Predacons
are ensuring their survival. As for what time it is, well, I've got about
10:15 a.m., oh wait, you meant in the show...Beast Wars takes place about
200 years after the original show. If you want to find out more info (and
there's nothing wrong with that) on Beast Wars, go to my BW web page. The
URL is in my sig file below. I've even got the scripts for the first two
eps for you to read if this post doesn't clarify enough.
Ratbat
On 24 May 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> Robert A. Jung (rj...@netcom.com) wrote:
> : Hey, if it bothers you that much, just pretend it's an alternate reality.
You know, Rob, that's what I say about *everything*!
> : I kinda like the "official" explainations given here by Mr. Ditillo (I am
> : a little hesitant, if only because I want to wait to see the rationales
> : given on the show, thus making them canonical). My only remaining beef is
> : in having BEAST WARS start 200 years after the end of the Autobot-Decepticon
> : war; that's not enough time. A few million years, on the other hand, would
> : give plenty of room for memories to fade and characters to rise and fall.
> :
> [snip]
>
> I like Mr. DiTillio's explanation too. As for scientific fact, I
> tend not to get into that too much because the idea of a race of robots
> who go around converting into different forms and having emotions and
> total sentience is far beyond our scientific knowledge to create right now
> (as I understand it, Artificial Intelligence is still in its infancy).
> However, regarding time, I think 200 years is a lot of time. Look
> at the 20-30 span between the time of the original series and Rebirth. In
> that time span:
I agree. I think that (if you want a comparison), you could look at the
four million years when 'nothing happened' as being a similar historical
occurance to the thousands of years here while humans just pissfarted
around trying to invent wheels and TVs and tampons and things.
> 1. Many, new subgroups of Transformers were born (Combaticons, Aerialbots,
> Stunticons, Headmasters, Targetmasters etc.)
Exactly. At first I hated Beast Wars, and I'd still prefer the type
of Transformers I grew up with, but I've since learnt to respect them
(what I know of them) in their own right, and not think they suck like a
vacuum.
Besdies, think what a leap forward the Blahmasters must have been, or
Pretenders if you want a BW comparison...they've also got organics around
tem, so the technlogies could well be related. Bludgeon and Cloudburst
might be able to wander around on that planet while Cyclonus and
Wheeljack may not...
> 2. The Autobots and Decepticons brought their struggle onto Earth and
> became heavily involved with the population of Earth (I think a LOT of
> EDC's development came from Transformers technology, feel free to dispute
> me though).
Probably. I doubt homo spaiens could have pulled out *that* much
technology between 1985 and 2006 all on their own. I'd say they decided
to give the humans a chance to defend themselves for a change, and gave
them the kind of equipment tey needed to do it. The Autobots might have
felt a bit guilty about bringing te Decepticons and what-have-you to Earth.
> 3. Also, the Autobots and Decepticons then became involved in a major
> struggle with Unicron.
Yep, given that Unicron's pretty much the Primusian mythology's devil,
and then whap-bang up he showed, I'd say that gave their way of thinking
a kick in the butt.
> 4. The Autobots lost and then gained control of Cybertron.
Well, a whole-planet power shift is *definitely* a major event, and bound
to trigger a lot more.
> 5. Many warriors changed identities (Megatron-->Galvatron,
> Hot Rod-->Rodimus Prime and back, Bumblebee-->Goldbug etc.) while some new
> warriors were born (Fortress Maximus, Scorponok, the Aerialbots,
> Combaticons etc.).
Ultra Magnus-->pile of scrap on the Planet of Junk-->back again...:)
> 6. Along the way, the Transformers learned of their ancient origins as
> military hardware and consumer goods.
Ever get the feeling that Primus is a whole lot more interesting than the
Quintessons? (Primus pops up and says, 'Actually, you're both right. They
are *my* military hardware and consumer goods!')
> 8. Some Autobots left Cybertron to become guardians of Nebulos (opening a
> never entered doorway for a literal new world of adventure)
And for once they stayed on purpose, not because they'd done an oopsie. I
think. If I still had REBIRTH I'd confirm that. And in the comic,
well...they went on purpose, but then it got mostly left along except
when the Powermaters paid a visit.
> 10. Many of our favorite warriors were lost (Wheeljack, Windcharger,
> Huffer, Ironhide, Prowl etc.)
Wheeljack's not dead, he's just asleep...:)
[I had to snip a big chunk of Benson's stuff here, but he makes good points.]
I agree. Influential times happen at different rates.
Urac 'Ratbat' Sigma, *fruit* from your *loins*! Eeuuu!
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 'Normal is what everyone else is, and you are not.' |
| - Dr Tolian Soran |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Urac 'Ratbat' Sigma, E-mail me on u96...@student.canberra.edu.au |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
CMauro3927
What in the world constitutes a true TF fan? Are you all going to get
some kind of special recognition for it? Who cares! Stop putting
everyone else down who has a different opinion! Just because others like
BW, like me for example-and I mean the cartoon, not the toys-does not mean
they are not true TF fans. And in the grand scheme of life, who's gonna
care?
Matthew High
Fill in your name here wrote:
>
> : Julian Titus wrote:
> : >
> : Doug Dlin
> : True Transfan
> :
> : P.S. to Ben Yee: Sorry if I stepped on yer toes by jumping in here.
> :;-)
>
> What are you kiddin'? It's good to see someone backing me up.
> Makes me feel like I'm not just raving here without anyone else
> agreeing at all. I think it's important to make the distinction
> between judging something (such as Beast Wars) without any information
> (or very little as it seems in this case) and knowing about something
> and then speaking about it objectively. Thanks for the backup Doug,
> it's appreciated. Errr...all of a sudden I get this bad feeling I'm
> being a little too insistant on my defense for Beast
> Wars...hmmmm...naaahhh...
"Naahh" indeed! Every time someone new joins our group who has just
heard of BW and prejudged it w/o seeing it or investigating further,
your insistent defense is justified all over again.
You're most welcome, but you've hardly been alone in your crusade from
what I've seen. Majority opinion seems to be with you, at least as far
as the "learn more and then judge it" camp goes.
Doug Dlin
Carrying a lamp (that transforms, of course) as he wanders in search of
true Transfans... :-)
Ivy Bohnlein
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: I could say you are also closed minded H. Jameel al Khafiz
Can I do it this time? Please, please, can I?
*PLONK*
Ivy
--
===================== Bohn...@acmelabs.uhc.asu.edu =====================
"Christmas is killing. Killing is carnage. Christmas is carnage!"
"Well, 'the way things are' stinks!" -- Ferdinand the Duck
= Whiz = Tempest = TF 2005 MUSH! aptlabta.wpi.edu 5555 = Atlatl = Tytania =
Gavin Blair
I've been backing you up all along but you didn't seem to
notice...then again, I would, wouldn't I...
Trnsfrmrs
>By taking on the forms of the local animals who have no problem >with the
energon fields, the Maximals and Predacons are ensuring >their survival.
You mean they are on Earth then?
>Beast Wars takes place about 200 years after the original show.
That would be 2185 right?
Zobovor001
In article <4oidjb$i...@news.asu.edu>, bohn...@acmelabs.uhc.asu.edu (Ivy
Bohnlein) writes:
>
>Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
>: I could say you are also closed minded H. Jameel al Khafiz
>
>Can I do it this time? Please, please, can I?
>
>*PLONK*
Is anyone else growing a tad tired of Interbot? I mean, he has the right
to his opinions, and I for one welcome his sharing them, but it gets old
very quickly when he seems to come down on everything anyone says,
offering only "I'm right, you're wrong" as an arguement. I don't have a
problem with him making it (exasperatingly) publicly known that he
dislikes Beast Wars with a passion. FINE. Everyone knows this; now
please say something else. Anything else. I'm not too fond of the
Pretenders, but you don't see me announcing this in every single string I
write...
I noticed he changed his "see y'all at BotCon" .sig, though. Guess he
realized how silly it was...
H. Jameel al Khafiz
bohn...@acmelabs.uhc.asu.edu (Ivy Bohnlein) writes:
> Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> : I could say you are also closed minded H. Jameel al Khafiz
>
> Can I do it this time? Please, please, can I?
>
> *PLONK*
>
my eye :-)
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: >By taking on the forms of the local animals who have no problem >with the
: energon fields, the Maximals and Predacons are ensuring >their survival.
:
: You mean they are on Earth then?
Not necesarily (you DID see the show right?). The planet they are
on has two moons and other anomolies (such as the Stonehenge like thingy)
that indicate it could be Earth or any other world.
: >Beast Wars takes place about 200 years after the original show.
:
: That would be 2185 right?
Forgive me, I should have been more accurate in my statement.
Beast Wars begins 200 years after the original show. However, as the
Maximals and Predacons are battling in space, they both become locked onto
the same warp signature. According to Rhinox, the Transwarp drive the
Predacon ship was using can travel through space AND time. So, in effect,
once the BW's crashed on their 'primitive' world, they could be anywhere
at any time.
Trnsfrmrs
Oh come on guys! Why does everyone like BW anyway?
msipher
On 30 May 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> Oh come on guys! Why does everyone like BW anyway?
Sweet mother of... are you trolling or just stupid?
You know, I'm an open-minded individual. I try to give everything a
chance. I gave BW a chance. I gave you a chance. BW proved to be a worthy
addition to the TF line. You proved yourself to be an insipid little
jagoff who apparently has absolutely nothing better to do than cling
desperatley to your half-assed opinion, which is OBVIOUSLY far too
valuable to you to change, research, give any valid reasoning for, or
even CONSIDER any evidence that might change your opinion, now matter
HOW many times any number of people re-state those facts, to the point
where the sum total of your involvemnt in this group is selling a few
items and generally annoying people by continually re-stating your hatred
for the line, and apparent contempt for those who like it.
BEAST WARS IS THE CURRENT LINE OF TRANSFORMERS. GET OVER IT. THE REST OF
US HAVE.
M "I Hate It When I Get Like This, But Sometimes It's The Only Way" Sipher
Arklier
ye...@is2.nyu.edu (Fill in your name here) wrote:
> Okay, I don't know exactly how to follow this section up but I
>take your meaning as Optimus Primal and Megatron don't look like the
>original ones we've known for 10+ years. Well dude, there's a good reason
>for that. Beast Wars Optimus Primal and Megatron ARE NOT THE SAME
>CHARACTERS AS THE ORIGINAL ONES!! They are new warriors who have taken on
>the names to honor the original Autobot and Decepticon leaders with those
>names. So you don't have to see this as an 'excuse' this is the REASON
>for their appearance!
Well, one thing's for darn sure: that's not the idea HasKen had when
they named the toys. In a cheap marketing move (like in G2), they
sought to use the popularity of figures that we knew, since I bet
almost every kid with half a brain knows who OP and Megs are. The
names of the figures (not the chars themselves) are my main gripe. The
toys aren't so bad, and I haven't seen the cartoon yet, but the names
really bother me for some reason. Most of those that aren't copied or
stupid are just wrong. Come on, an Autobot/Maximal called Cheetor
(Cheater)? This, BTW was also a gripe I had for G2. Just my opinion,
no flames please.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arklier
Firsty is the best!
Dave Van Domelen
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960530...@bessel.nando.net>,
msipher <msi...@nando.net> wrote:
>On 30 May 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
>> Oh come on guys! Why does everyone like BW anyway?
>Sweet mother of... are you trolling or just stupid?
There's a strong possibility he's both, you know.
>
>M "I Hate It When I Get Like This, But Sometimes It's The Only Way" Sipher
Yeah, the old "Flames burn both ways" thing.
Wombattras...MAXIMIZE!
Gregg T. Allinson
For me, it's because they're better than no TFs. And while I find them
inferior to Gen1 and 2 toys, judging them by their own merits,
they're a decent little line of toys. And for all the differences between
all the series, they're all about warring Transformers from Cybertron.
This applies to BW, Gen1, Gen2, Victory, Return of Star Convoy, Block
City...whatever else you want to name. They're all still TFs no matter
what.
Now if only the quality of the toys picked up a bit and they slapped some
more faction insignias on the toys...
Fill in your name here
: aka INTERBOT
: See you at BOTCON 96!!!
: Message found on most TF boxes: "Extreme force is not necassary." (but
: sometimes useful)
Interbot, by asking this you've convinced me that you:
1. Haven't seen the show (or paid very little attention during it).
2. May like the insects in BW but have never actually played with a BW
toy.
3. Have not read ANY of the follow up posts to all your anti-Beast Wars
posts at all, or if you did, you were half asleep and missed most
of the points.
This post is still ongoing Interbot, go back to all the posts
before this one, especially the ones where you and others thrashed Beast
Wars, read the follow up posts and most of your questions will be
answered.
Ben "Who thought everyone actually read follow up posts."
ye...@is2.nyu.edu
msipher
On 31 May 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> Ben "Who thought everyone actually read follow up posts."
Well, there's a difference between reading them and READING them...
M "Kinda Like The Difference Between Liking Someone and LIKING Someone"
Sipher
Robert A. Jung
In article <4ol07c$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) writes:
>Oh come on guys! Why does everyone like BW anyway?
Not everyone does; not everyone likes Micromasters, or Headmasters, or
Targetmasters, or Pretenders, or Mini-Spies, or the original metal cars and
planes, either. But most of the folks who don't like (or are simply
indifferent to) Beast Wars also don't make pr*cks of themselves over it...
Robert A. Jung
In article <4okbcg$p...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> zobov...@aol.com (Zobovor001) writes:
>I don't have a
>problem with him making it (exasperatingly) publicly known that he
>dislikes Beast Wars with a passion. FINE. Everyone knows this; now
>please say something else. Anything else. I'm not too fond of the
>Pretenders, but you don't see me announcing this in every single string I
>write...
It's called "get over it already, willya?" B-)
>I noticed he changed his "see y'all at BotCon" .sig, though. Guess he
>realized how silly it was...
Or maybe he's afraid of the mob that might greet him there...
Trnsfrmrs
OK OK I give up! I still don't like BW though.
TRANSFORMERS: "MORE MUCH MORE THAN EVER MEETS THE EYE!"
Trnsfrmrs
>>1. Haven't seen the show (or paid very little attention during it).
>>2. May like the insects in BW but have never actually played with a BW
toy.
Have a bug
>>3. Have not read ANY of the follow up posts to all your anti-Beast Wars
posts at all, or if you did, you were half asleep and missed most of the
points.
What's your point?
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
: >>1. Haven't seen the show (or paid very little attention during it).
: Saw it liked it.
The how did you miss the references to the Great War and
Cybertron?
: >>2. May like the insects in BW but have never actually played with a BW
: toy.
: Have a bug
:
Yet you still knock the line as if it were some great evil.
: >>3. Have not read ANY of the follow up posts to all your anti-Beast Wars
: posts at all, or if you did, you were half asleep and missed most of the
: points.
: What's your point?
:
:
My point (if you read the little bit o' words AFTER my three
observations) is that it seems that by asking "Why does everyone like
Beast Wars?" you haven't noticed the many reasons that others such as
myself have given all along this thread. Msipher, Dirge, Dan C., Raksha
and many others have posted follow up posts to the original "Death to
Beast Wars" and "Beast Wars in midlife crisis" posts which answer "Why we
like Beast Wars" so by asking, it seems you haven't read the available
follow up posts too well.
msipher
On 1 Jun 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> >>3. Have not read ANY of the follow up posts to all your anti-Beast Wars
> posts at all, or if you did, you were half asleep and missed most of the
> points.
> What's your point?
The point is, you're an idiot. By not paying any attention to anybody
else's arguments, you're only setting yourself up to look more foolish as
you barge ahead with your little tirade.
M "COMPLETELY Out Of Patience Now" Sipher
msipher
On 30 May 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> >By taking on the forms of the local animals who have no problem >with the
> energon fields, the Maximals and Predacons are ensuring >their survival.
>
> You mean they are on Earth then?
Maybe. We don't know. They're purposly throwing around some weird stuff
to add mystery (a stonehenge-like construction, Earthen animals, two
moons...)
> >Beast Wars takes place about 200 years after the original show.
>
> That would be 2185 right?
....
No. Technically, it occurs around 2207... remember the post-movie season?
Theres a lot more to TFs than the first year or two...
However, as for the locale of the events in the BW story (both geographical
and temporal), we really don't know yet. Rhinox said that the warp that
they went through at the beginnig of the episode travelled through both
time *and* space.
It *might* be primitive Earth... it *might* be a freaky alternate-
dimension Earth... we don't know yet. That's one of the major
plotlines... figuring out just where and when the hell they are.
M "You're The Hell Here!" Sipher
Roy Gutierrez
That's telling him! Finally, someone to tell this guy off!
_________________________________________________________________________
Ryan Gutierrez - BWADL member
msipher
On Thu, 30 May 1996, Arklier wrote:
> Well, one thing's for darn sure: that's not the idea HasKen had when
> they named the toys. In a cheap marketing move (like in G2), they
> sought to use the popularity of figures that we knew, since I bet
> almost every kid with half a brain knows who OP and Megs are. The
> names of the figures (not the chars themselves) are my main gripe. The
> toys aren't so bad, and I haven't seen the cartoon yet, but the names
> really bother me for some reason. Most of those that aren't copied or
> stupid are just wrong. Come on, an Autobot/Maximal called Cheetor
> (Cheater)? This, BTW was also a gripe I had for G2. Just my opinion,
> no flames please.
Hey, no flames, as this *is* a legitamite beef, presented with reason.
And I happen to agree with you on this. Hes/Ken really dropped the ball
on the name deal. I've presented my thoughts as to why we got the
"classic" Go-Bots and CyberJets (trademark protection), but that doesn't
mean I particularly *like* it. But, in all honesty, it was a good sign
mixed in a bad presentation... apparently, Has/Ken cared enough about
those classic characters to make sure they don't slip from the line. I'd
like to think they were planning something CyberJet-like for those
classic guys... or, I could be wrong. I dunno.
M "At Least They Could Have Given Go-Bot Soundwave A Decent Color Scheme"
Sipher
Trnsfrmrs
It is still not a beast fad is a a Super Hero fad that is going around!
Look at Toy Biz & their lines of stuff. My Kmart store recently replaced a
shelf full of BW with Batman
BTW I take back that BW is targeted at kids now I am beginning to believe
they are targeted at us Transfans face it the kids never heard of them &
Hasbro is hardly marketing them well. Their web page has GI Joe Extreme
but no BW (yet)
"Woo Who!" (Homer Simpson) & me when I find a TF on my want list.
Trnsfrmrs
Geez!!! Pit bulls now are we?
"Woo Who!" (Homer Simpson) & me when I find a TF on my want list.
Also kicking myself for not getting more Turbomasters & Predators when I
had the chance.
Roy Gutierrez
Finally! He gives up people! I hope this puts an end to this Beast Wars
argument.
That's all I have to say.
_________________________________________________________________________
Ryan Gutierrez
"My actions do not imply loyalty, Optimus, we are merely...even."-Dinobot
Raksha
In article <4oos9u$r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Trnsfrmrs <trns...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>3. Have not read ANY of the follow up posts to all your anti-Beast Wars
>posts at all, or if you did, you were half asleep and missed most of the
>points.
>What's your point?
Great Cybertron, are you a complete, utter, and TOTAL irredeemable idiot???
Never mind, you just answered that question yourself. You have never once, in
all of your bashing, given a coherrent and thought-out explanation for your
loathing. How about we turn your own question back to you and ask why you
DISlike Beast Wars? A lot of people have had aspects of BW that didn't sit
right with them, myself included, though they've at least tried to give reasons
for why they felt that way -- and also been able to see the good points in the
new line/show. So if I ask you why you hate BW, are you just going to repeat
"Because it sucks!" like a moron, or are you going to write more than one line
in response with some halfway intelligent text? The challenge is given....
--Raksha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soundwave@2005 MUSH: "The secrets of the Universe reveal themselves
to those who listen."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Dept. of Zoology, OSU
Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/1139
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trnsfrmrs
They just totally changed TFs that is why I dont like em
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> It is still not a beast fad is a a Super Hero fad that is going around!
> Look at Toy Biz & their lines of stuff. My Kmart store recently replaced a
> shelf full of BW with Batman
Interbot, what you have got to realize with stores is that just
because one product replaces another on the shelf, that has LITTLE to do
with its popularity. Just because Batman replaced Beast Wars on a shelf,
that just probably means that the store's Beast Wars stock is selling and
they had the extra room for the Batman figures. If anything, this means
that Beast Wars is doing relatively well in your area too. It's not as if
the stores take stock off shelves and go hide them in a secret room
somewhere (unless the items are rare or something, but that's a scalping
discussion for another group).
>
> BTW I take back that BW is targeted at kids now I am beginning to believe
> they are targeted at us Transfans face it the kids never heard of them &
> Hasbro is hardly marketing them well. Their web page has GI Joe Extreme
> but no BW (yet)
>
Interbot, get a clue please. First (in your original posts), you
believed that the BW TF's were targeted soley at us old fans which led to
much of your BW hate posts. Then a whole band wagon worth of us
a.t.t.er's told you otherwise and then you believed us and now you're
switching? Toys are generally marketed TOWARDS KIDS Interbot. We
'older'fans make up a rather small percentage of the total sales.
As for kids not having heard about Beast Wars, that will change
soon. So far, the marketing has been pretty darn good, commericals, the
two part preview, flyers (distributed by Alliance regarding the show in
Canada) and the McDonald's offer. Although I don't doubt that many kids
haven't heard of Beast Wars yet, a lot have. It's a joy nowadays to go to
TRU or my local small toy store and see kids running up to BW toys and
getting all excited. Oh sure they don't know all the names, they may not
even know about the show (which will change in the fall), but they know
what they like and so far, it seems the kiddies like Beast Wars. Brings a
smile to my face to see kids choose a BW two pack over the MMPR toys
instead of the other way around (which has happened over the past few
years) *sniff* :)
msipher
On 6 Jun 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> > It is still not a beast fad is a a Super Hero fad that is going around!
Uh-huh. *Sure*.
There have been superhero toy lines in the stores FOREVER. I don't
remember EVER walking into a toy store and NOT seeing something from
Marvel or DC... Just because more comic companies are making action
figure lines DOESN'T mean that they're selling... Spawn is stagnating on
the pegs, as is Ultraforce...
> > Look at Toy Biz & their lines of stuff. My Kmart store recently replaced a
> > shelf full of BW with Batman
*Sigh*. I HAVE looked at the Toy Biz stuff. And the fact that there is
pegs and pegs full of them indicate to me that they're not selling very
well, mostly because they've REALLY saturated the market. I mean, there's
figures for almost every Marvel comic out there, every single sun-comic,
with almost every single character...
> Interbot, what you have got to realize with stores is that just
> because one product replaces another on the shelf, that has LITTLE to do
> with its popularity. Just because Batman replaced Beast Wars on a shelf,
> that just probably means that the store's Beast Wars stock is selling and
> they had the extra room for the Batman figures. If anything, this means
> that Beast Wars is doing relatively well in your area too. It's not as if
> the stores take stock off shelves and go hide them in a secret room
> somewhere (unless the items are rare or something, but that's a scalping
> discussion for another group).
Bingo! No toy store is going to leave a peg empty for very long, nor are
they going to remove merchandise from those pegs unless they need the
room for a hot-selling item. Batman is NOT a hot-selling item, thanks to
the common practice of making too damn many figures. So, logically,
the've sold their BW stock, and put some stuff in to fill the empty space...
I go through several toy stores with some frequency, and I see BW being
constantly restocked (except at TRUs, for some reason). Wal-Mart just got
in the newest Deluxes (including Waspinator in the new packaging... first
time I ever saw that. I wonder if this is semi-rare...). K-Marts have
been re-stocking the new regulars, and Targets have kept their BW pegs
restocked.
> > BTW I take back that BW is targeted at kids now I am beginning to believe
> > they are targeted at us Transfans face it the kids never heard of them &
> > Hasbro is hardly marketing them well. Their web page has GI Joe Extreme
> > but no BW (yet)
(Shakes head). Well, lets' see here... if toy lines were marketed solely
by the fact that kids had ever heard of them... THEN NO NEW TOY LINES
WOULD EVER BE MADE, YOU PHENOMENAL WASTE OF SPACE!!! YOUR TRAIN OF
THOUGHT HAS BEEN LONG DERAILED!!! GO SEND SOME MONEY TO SALLY STRUTHERS
AND TAKE THE REMEDIAL MARKETING COURSE!! CRIPES!!!
Sorry. (Well, not really.)
And as for BW's marketing... they seem to be doing pretty damn good
without a major media blitz! I expect them to start really marketing the
line come August/September, when the show goes full-time.
Oh, and about the Web page... gimme some time. A guy from Hasbro comes
through every now and then (we're doing a computer game for them). I'll
have him pass the word to the folks in charge of the Web page to include
TFs and BW...
> Interbot, get a clue please. First (in your original posts), you
> believed that the BW TF's were targeted soley at us old fans which led to
> much of your BW hate posts. Then a whole band wagon worth of us
> a.t.t.er's told you otherwise and then you believed us and now you're
> switching?
Notice the wording... "I take back that BW is targeted at kids"... making
it sound like *he* came up with that idea.
> Toys are generally marketed TOWARDS KIDS Interbot. We
> 'older'fans make up a rather small percentage of the total sales.
> As for kids not having heard about Beast Wars, that will change
> soon. So far, the marketing has been pretty darn good, commericals, the
> two part preview, flyers (distributed by Alliance regarding the show in
> Canada) and the McDonald's offer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now, if THAT didn't alert kids to BW, just what in the hell WILL? A Happy
Meal promotion... let's face it folks, it doesn't get much bigger than
that.
> Although I don't doubt that many kids
> haven't heard of Beast Wars yet, a lot have. It's a joy nowadays to go to
> TRU or my local small toy store and see kids running up to BW toys and
> getting all excited. Oh sure they don't know all the names, they may not
> even know about the show (which will change in the fall), but they know
> what they like and so far, it seems the kiddies like Beast Wars. Brings a
> smile to my face to see kids choose a BW two pack over the MMPR toys
> instead of the other way around (which has happened over the past few
> years) *sniff* :)
Heh. You'll notice that MMPR is trying the pure-robot thing now... the
new enemies are big nasty robots instead of psuedo-beasts. It's a
switcheroo!!!
M "It's The BWADL Posse! Dun-DaDa-Dun-DaDa-Dun-DaDa-Dun Da DUN-DUN..." Sipher
"The word 'truncheon' comes to mind. 'Cudgel.'"
- Tom Servo, MST3K, "Zombie Nightmare"
Dirge
trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) whines:
-> They just totally changed TFs that is why I dont like em
OK. That's understandable. I'd prefer straight TFs to Beast Wars (in
name). But be glad they are still TFs. there's no new TFs this year for
Iggy, Paul Wright, Ratbat or myself (and others). Do you hear us whining
constantly?
OK, Interbot, I want to know, have you bought and played with a beast? If
not, I challenge you. Go to a toy store, buy a regular beast (Insecticon
maybe, you said you dont mind him), play with it, inspect it. Compare the
plastic on it to Stalker. Tell me what you think of it then.
Heck it's not hard to work them into your play. As someone else suggested
(and I went along with), ALTERNATE REALITY! Just make the beasts go
through a warp, and viola!, they can join your other TFs (:
Darren, there's nothing more irritating than a one-linf follow-up.
Fill in your name here
How did they totally change them? Interbot, I don't know if you
have arthritis or something which prohibits a lot of typing on your part,
but why can't any of your arguments amount to more than a one liner of an
opinion?
The Beast Warriors are Transformers. Beings from the planet
Cybertron who have the ability to change into other forms. There are two
sides locked in a centuries old war.
Now, you could say "Well, they're Maximals and Predacons now so
that's different." and "They have organic matter now, that's different."
To that point, I have to say this. The fact that they're not known as
Autobots and Decepticons has NO bearing whatsoever on the fact that the
essence (see above) of the Transformers war is being kept intact. Also
keep in mind that there is not a total disassociation with the Autobots
and Decepticons, they still exist, but they're back on Cybertron.
As for organic matter, hey, it's nothing new. Think about
Headmaster, Pretenders, Powermasters etc., I've never heard you go into an
uproar regarding them.
They haven't TOTALLY changed the concept. In fact, the TF concept
is relatively intact. Details such as specific characters and names etc.
have changed, but those changes are not significant enough (at least for
me) to make me go off on the line with the zeal that you express.
Roy Gutierrez
I think that is pretty stupid criteria you are using. You didn't even
give Beast Wars a chance. Just because it different? I think others will
agree that this reason is pretty dumb. Stop posting news saying Beast
Wars is dumb because it's different, I'm getting sick of it and I think
others are too: just cut the crap NOW!
_________________________________________________________________________
Ryan Gutierrez
"My action did not imply loyalty, Optimus, now we are merely...even."
-Dinobot
Trnsfrmrs
>Notice the wording... "I take back that BW is targeted at >kids"...
making
>it sound like *he* came up with that idea.
No that is what I said before now I guess you aren't reading posts
correctly.
>Now, if THAT didn't alert kids to BW, just what in the hell >WILL? A
Happy
>Meal promotion... let's face it folks, it doesn't get much >bigger than
>that.
Nope it didn't it is long history.
. Just because Batman replaced Beast Wars on a shelf,
> that just probably means that the store's Beast Wars stock is selling
and
> they had the extra room for the Batman figures.
i would think they would order more BW to fill the need
Trnsfrmrs
>As for organic matter, hey, it's nothing new. Think about
>Headmaster, Pretenders, Powermasters etc., I've never >heard you go into
an uproar regarding them.
Actually I don't care much for pretenders anyway
>Also keep in mind that there is not a total disassociation >with the
Autobots
>and Decepticons, they still exist, but they're back on >Cybertron.
Why aren't they coming to look for them then. It is just that it seems
like they are selling subgroups. For example if all they had were
Insecticons & Targetmasters. MORE VARIETY!!! Not just BW.
>Beings from the planet Cybertron who have the ability to >change into
other forms.
by just thinking about it not by commanding themselves to do it (of course
I realize that Mr. Ditillio & crew are thinking of changing that)
Fill in your name here
Point being that you don't rant and rave about how you wish all
the Pretenders would pop out of existance.
>
> Why aren't they coming to look for them then. It is just that it seems
> like they are selling subgroups. For example if all they had were
> Insecticons & Targetmasters. MORE VARIETY!!! Not just BW.
Hey, how come for 4 MILLION years the original Autobots and
Decepticons weren't found by anyone on Cybertron? I don't hear you
complaining about THAT. As for subgroups, they are selling Maximals and
Predacons yes, but they have to start small before they build up too much
(like the past couple years of G2)
>
> by just thinking about it not by commanding themselves to do it (of course
> I realize that Mr. Ditillio & crew are thinking of changing that)
>
k Depends, in the Japanese cartoon the TF's did yell out Transform!
and God on! etc.
Fill in your name here
I went crazy trying to get my set complete and getting a Predacon box was
a struggle! Believe me, when the promo was happening, it GOT the
attention of kids and the parents who had to pay for it!
> . Just because Batman replaced Beast Wars on a shelf,
> > that just probably means that the store's Beast Wars stock is selling
> and
> > they had the extra room for the Batman figures.
>
> i would think they would order more BW to fill the need
>
Yeah, but Interbot, do you realize that not EVERY toy comes in on
the same day or even the same week?! I mean, two weeks ago, my local TRU
got a big shipment of BW's in but they haven't gotten a new shipment yet.
They did however get a new shipment of Batman figs even though two weeks
ago they had not received any Batman figs yet. GET IT?! It's not as if
the toy industry is this magical place where someone just calls someone
else and says "I'm the local TRU manager, I need 10 cases of Batman and
Beast Wars figures and I want them to arrive at the same exact time.". It
doesn't work like that Interbot, toy stores get orders at different times.
Sheesh, is that really hard to comprehend?
Pyynk
In article <4pc3oq$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, trns...@aol.com
(Trnsfrmrs) writes:
>i would think they would order more BW to fill the need
Uhh, actually it depends. Having worked at Kmart for three years (just
recently left the place, thank God), I can tell you that (at least at our
store) not matter how well something sold, we might not get re-orders on
that item or might get them far later than one would think. For example,
Beast Wars did extremely well in my store, yet because 1) our re-order
system is slow 2) managers are not allowed to do re-orders at certain
times and with certain companies, at least in large bulk, not to mention
other considerations, it might be two months before we completely
re-stocked (if ever). As a matter of fact, the last time I checked with
the toy department manager, she still only had the initial releases and
most of those were the two pack.
Pyynk
Q: How many Autobot leaders does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Two, Optimus Prime to screw in the lightbulb and Rodimus Prime to say
how much better Optimus is at it than he.
msipher
On 8 Jun 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> >
> > Nope it didn't it is long history.
> >
> The POINT IS that the Happy Meal Promo happened! Kids LOVED it!
> I went crazy trying to get my set complete and getting a Predacon box was
> a struggle! Believe me, when the promo was happening, it GOT the
> attention of kids and the parents who had to pay for it!
The BW Happy Meal promo was definately a hit. Every time I walked into a
McD's, there were kids aplenty with TF Happy Meals. Many of them had sold
out of toys when I tried to find them... STILL never got the under-3 TF.
(I felt a tad silly asking for it, but hey.)
Besides, the promo seemed to last a fairly decent amount of time... maybe
it was just because I was actually paying *attention* to it this time.
> > i would think they would order more BW to fill the need
> >
> Yeah, but Interbot, do you realize that not EVERY toy comes in on
> the same day or even the same week?! I mean, two weeks ago, my local TRU
> got a big shipment of BW's in but they haven't gotten a new shipment yet.
> They did however get a new shipment of Batman figs even though two weeks
> ago they had not received any Batman figs yet. GET IT?! It's not as if
> the toy industry is this magical place where someone just calls someone
> else and says "I'm the local TRU manager, I need 10 cases of Batman and
> Beast Wars figures and I want them to arrive at the same exact time.". It
> doesn't work like that Interbot, toy stores get orders at different times.
I've talked with quite a few people who work at TRUs and Targets, and
they tell me that they don't even really *order* anything. They get what
they get when the toy manufacturers send them. I'm sure they can tell the
company to *stop* sending certain lines if they want.
Trust me, I've asked. While searching for Polar Claw and Scorponok, I
managed to talk to the guy in charge of the local Target's toy
department, and he told me that they know what the company's sending them
when they actually *get* the items, not before. Which is why Polar and
Scorp remain a mystery.
> Sheesh, is that really hard to comprehend?
Depends on who you are.
M "Which Means I Gotta Keep Walking Into The Damn Store Every Day" Sipher
Scott Neukam
trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) wrote:
>They just totally changed TFs that is why I dont like em
Totally changed...A couple-hundred "I hate BW's" post's ago, didn't
you say that you didn't like them because they copied the original
story (crash-landing on an alien world...) and were reusing names?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Neukam, sco...@viaduct.custom.net
Bluestreak@#transformers
Hey, I didn't volunteer for this geeky assignment! - Frenzy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
msipher
On 8 Jun 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> >Notice the wording... "I take back that BW is targeted at >kids"...
> making
> >it sound like *he* came up with that idea.
>
> No that is what I said before now I guess you aren't reading posts
> correctly.
Well, I MWAAHAHHHAAAAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAWHEEEEHEEHEEHEEEHEEEHAAAAAAAAA
HAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAHEEEHOHOHOHOHOHOHOBWAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAA!!!!
Sorry. Anyway... BWAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAA
HEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA(GASP WHEEZE CHOKE)HAAA
HAAAAHAAAAHAAAAWHAAAAAAWHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Ohh... my gut... teeheehee... ahem.
*I'M* not reading post correctly?! Talk about the pot and the friggin'
kettle!
I quoted you exactly. I *KNOW* that you've changed your mind. You've
waffled more than the IHOP.
> >Now, if THAT didn't alert kids to BW, just what in the hell >WILL? A
> Happy
> >Meal promotion... let's face it folks, it doesn't get much >bigger than
> >that.
>
> Nope it didn't it is long history.
"Nope it didn't" WHAT?! Alert kids to BW? As I and others have told,
there were LOTS of kids with the BW Happy Meals. And I guarentee you
those kids saw the characters on the sides of the box and begged their
parents to go to the toy stores...
"it is long history"... first of all, does the phrase "run-on sentence"
mean anything to you? Second of all, so the offer is over. What, did you
think that it would run indefinately or something? Besides, just because
it's OVER doesn't mean that kids have completely FORGOTTEN about them.
Come on, kids aren't stupid. Besides, the Disney promo that followed the
BW promo is over, and have kids forgotten about Disney? HUH?
> . Just because Batman replaced Beast Wars on a shelf,
> > that just probably means that the store's Beast Wars stock is selling
> and
> > they had the extra room for the Batman figures.
>
> i would think they would order more BW to fill the need
We've already sliced this one to ribbons....
M "There's A Fine Line Between Being Persistant And Being A Jackass" Sipher
"Stubborn as a mule and twice as stupid!"
- Ukyo Kuonji
Colin Betts
msipher (msi...@nando.net) wrote:
> On 6 Jun 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
> > Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> > > It is still not a beast fad is a a Super Hero fad that is going around!
> Uh-huh. *Sure*.
> There have been superhero toy lines in the stores FOREVER. I don't
> remember EVER walking into a toy store and NOT seeing something from
> Marvel or DC... Just because more comic companies are making action
> figure lines DOESN'T mean that they're selling... Spawn is stagnating on
> the pegs, as is Ultraforce...
actually, batman figures have been around since the first movie in 1990.
there was a limited reprinting of the super powers line at the same time,
which quickly went by the wayside. then x-men came out around the same
time and, along with the animated batman, filled the shelves. at the smae
time, there was a very limited marvel line (daredevil, punisher,
spider-man, green goblin) which hit the shelves. they were the pre-curser
to all the new toys which we are now seeing on the shelves...
while i agree that there have been a lot of new toy lines in the last five
years in terms of comic characters (x-men (generation x, 2099, x-force),
spiderman, batman: tas, batman: legends, superman: mos, superman: tas,
ultraforce, spawn, wild c.a.t.s, fantastic four, iron man), it is only a
recent development. the last time there was a sizeable selection of
heroic figures was around 1984-86 with marvel's secret wars and dc's super
powers lines. before that, the only big line was captain action and the
mego lines from the late 60s and mid 70s.
i, for one, welcome the multiple characters as it means i can pick and
choose. as a collector of individual figures rather than lines or
sub-sets or teams, it means that some figures which i love i can finally
own (archangel and robin come to mind) while i have to wait for others
(daredevil, green lantern, flash)
just in terms of the ottawa market, a lot of toy sets from the us do not
make it up here. specifically, i am thinking of some of the larger 10"
and 14" figures like the sentinels, galaticus, johnny storm and archangel (i
only ever saw archangel in edmonton - so glad i bit the bullet and bought
him when i did) now it may just be that ottawa is lame (which is not far
from the truth when it comes to toy lines). others make it to local comic
shops at highly inflated prices and low quantities, making for the obvious
financial difficulties
as a collector of transformers and other action toys, i do long for u.s.
store with their selection. the ottawa phenomium, in terms of hero toys,
has extended to other areas like transformers. while the entire beast war
line (except chee-tor) has made its way to ottawa this year, i have yet to
see the repainted cyberjets or gobots.
just a bit of long-windedness from scenic ottawa.
colin.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
colin betts I made my song a coat, covered with embroideries,
Out of old mythologies, from heel to throat.
carleton university But the fools caught it; wore it in the world's eyes
As though they'd wrought it. Song, let them take it,
ottawa, ontario For there is more enterprise in walking naked.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
cbe...@chat.carleton.ca http://chat.carleton.ca/~cbetts
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
msipher
On 8 Jun 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
> >Also keep in mind that there is not a total disassociation >with the
> Autobots
> >and Decepticons, they still exist, but they're back on >Cybertron.
>
> Why aren't they coming to look for them then.
Because... THEY'RE LOST IN TIME ON AN UNIDENTIFIED PLANET WITH NO
CONFIRMATION OF JUST WHERE AND WHEN THEY ACTUALLY ARE!!!! WE'VE ONLY
*TOLD* YOU THIS EIGHT MILLIONS TIMES!!! ARE YOU EVEN PAYING ATTENTION?!?!
> It is just that it seems
> like they are selling subgroups. For example if all they had were
> Insecticons & Targetmasters. MORE VARIETY!!! Not just BW.
Sweet mother of god in a kayak... AGAIN, why throw out "variety" if they
won't sell?! Vehicle-form TFs weren't selling, so they go with animals!
Throwing more vehicle-form TFs is not the solution!!! It's just wasted
time and money!!!
> >Beings from the planet Cybertron who have the ability to >change into
> other forms.
>
> by just thinking about it not by commanding themselves to do it (of course
> I realize that Mr. Ditillio & crew are thinking of changing that)
(Groan)... have you seen any of the Japanese episodes? they "command"
themselves to transform all the time, and it sounds cool.
M "Down The Path I Have Trod So Many Times Before" Sipher
msipher
On 10 Jun 1996, Colin Betts wrote:
> > There have been superhero toy lines in the stores FOREVER. I don't
> > remember EVER walking into a toy store and NOT seeing something from
> > Marvel or DC... Just because more comic companies are making action
> > figure lines DOESN'T mean that they're selling... Spawn is stagnating on
> > the pegs, as is Ultraforce...
(suh-nip!)
> while i agree that there have been a lot of new toy lines in the last five
> years in terms of comic characters (x-men (generation x, 2099, x-force),
> spiderman, batman: tas, batman: legends, superman: mos, superman: tas,
> ultraforce, spawn, wild c.a.t.s, fantastic four, iron man), it is only a
> recent development. the last time there was a sizeable selection of
> heroic figures was around 1984-86 with marvel's secret wars and dc's super
> powers lines. before that, the only big line was captain action and the
> mego lines from the late 60s and mid 70s.
Okay, this is getting a tad off subject, but what the hell.
Your point is valid, and I agree, *but* I honestly beleive that the
increased number of superhero/comic toy lines is due to comic companies
seeing the "success" (I have absolutely no numbers to back any of this
up, so I could be very wrong here, but this is what I have pbserved in
the stores and a few magazines) of the Batman figures (both movie and
cartoon) and X-Men, and deciding to jump on that bandwagon. I'm fairly
certain that a decent number of those aren't selling. I mean, the only
reason I had even *heard* of Ultraforce before the toys is because there
were ads for it in _Ninja High School_ before it moved back to
Antarctic...
> i, for one, welcome the multiple characters as it means i can pick and
> choose. as a collector of individual figures rather than lines or
> sub-sets or teams, it means that some figures which i love i can finally
> own (archangel and robin come to mind) while i have to wait for others
> (daredevil, green lantern, flash)
True. That's the one thing I truly miss about the early TF lines. Give me
roughly twenty Beast Warriors for the first batch, not just ten...
> as a collector of transformers and other action toys, i do long for u.s.
> store with their selection. the ottawa phenomium, in terms of hero toys,
> has extended to other areas like transformers. while the entire beast war
> line (except chee-tor) has made its way to ottawa this year, i have yet to
> see the repainted cyberjets or gobots.
Ah. Actually, the impression I got was that the "classic" CyberJets and
Go-Bots weren't exactly commonplace TFs in the first place...
I'm sure that if you really want them, somebody on the group here would
be happy to pick some up for you. I'd offer, but I'm a tad busy buying
BWs for others with what little moneyI have left...
M "Or Does The Water Get Me Instead?" Sipher
Trnsfrmrs
NY must be a BW fan spot since BW are hard to find there
Robert A. Jung
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.96060...@bessel.nando.net> msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
>Heh. You'll notice that MMPR is trying the pure-robot thing now... the
>new enemies are big nasty robots instead of psuedo-beasts. It's a
>switcheroo!!!
Just to be the MMPR authority around here, but the reason that show is using
"pure robots" now is because that's the villian-of-the-year of the Japanese
Sendai show currently being butchered/lifted/adapted for America. To think
that MMPR is changing themese because of market or audience forces is to give
Saban Entertainment more credit than they deserve. B-)
--R.J.
B-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are
amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine."
Send mail to rj...@netcom.com --Frank Zappa
Matthew High
On May 12, 1996, Robert A. Jung wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.96060...@bessel.nando.net>
> msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
> >the new enemies are big nasty robots instead of psuedo-beasts. It's a
> >switcheroo!!!
>
> is using "pure robots" now is because that's the villian-of-the-year
> of the Japanese Sendai show currently being butchered/lifted/adapted
> for America. To think that MMPR is changing themese because of market
> or audience forces is to give Saban Entertainment more credit than
> they deserve. B-)
>
> --R.J.
> B-)
>
cool (okay, except for the one that turns into a giant tire), at least
in their original context. I just lament the extremely simplistic
gestalt design that resulted. Methinks that Saban wasn't the only lazy
company that year...
Oh, and it's "sentai"; Sendai is a city. It won't make a difference
here, of course, but thank goodness you didn't make that mistake on your
trip. No telling where you'd have ended up! :-)
Doug "Dash! Dash! OH-Ranger!" Dlin
Dirge
msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
-> On 8 Jun 1996, Fill in your name here wrote:
-> > Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) whined:
-> > > Nope it didn't it is long history.
-> > >
-> > The POINT IS that the Happy Meal Promo happened! Kids LOVED it!
-> > I went crazy trying to get my set complete and getting a Predacon box was
-> > a struggle! Believe me, when the promo was happening, it GOT the
-> > attention of kids and the parents who had to pay for it!
-> The BW Happy Meal promo was definately a hit. Every time I walked into a
-> McD's, there were kids aplenty with TF Happy Meals. Many of them had sold
-> out of toys when I tried to find them... STILL never got the under-3 TF.
-> (I felt a tad silly asking for it, but hey.)
Well, considering the price of the toys and the quality of them (the
first two being the better ones too..), it was bound to do well.
McDonalds here would do well to release that happy meal set by itself
actually. When you see some of the sh*t they put out.. Wombat collector
cards and stuff...
-> Besides, the promo seemed to last a fairly decent amount of time... maybe
-> it was just because I was actually paying *attention* to it this time.
I had the luck to not have to pay attention. Thanks to Benson, I got the
four I wanted.. (:
-> I've talked with quite a few people who work at TRUs and Targets, and
-> they tell me that they don't even really *order* anything. They get what
-> they get when the toy manufacturers send them. I'm sure they can tell the
-> company to *stop* sending certain lines if they want.
Don't get me started on TRU employees...
Darren, whose newsreader just informed him no new articles have arrived
for 231,831 hours. That's 26 years... I _don't_ think so...
Dirge
msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
-> On 8 Jun 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
Sorry, couldn't resist that title change. It's a little mean, huh?
-> > >Notice the wording... "I take back that BW is targeted at >kids"...
-> > making
-> > >it sound like *he* came up with that idea.
-> >
-> > No that is what I said before now I guess you aren't reading posts
-> > correctly.
At least Interbot has figured out how to copy what he's following up to.
Give him _some_ credit.
Then, while he's distracted, set the Terrorcons on him (:
-> *I'M* not reading post correctly?! Talk about the pot and the friggin'
-> kettle!
For someone who didn't have previous articles in his postings, that's a
fairly bold statement for Interbot to make.
-> I quoted you exactly. I *KNOW* that you've changed your mind. You've
-> waffled more than the IHOP.
No, don't you get it? Beast Wars are aimed at US and Kids at the same
time, while also not at us nor kids at the same time.
And don't forget that while Beast Wars totally suck, the insect ones are
OK..
-> > >Now, if THAT didn't alert kids to BW, just what in the hell >WILL? A
-> > Happy
-> > >Meal promotion... let's face it folks, it doesn't get much >bigger than
-> > >that.
-> >
-> > Nope it didn't it is long history.
-> "Nope it didn't" WHAT?! Alert kids to BW? As I and others have told,
-> there were LOTS of kids with the BW Happy Meals. And I guarentee you
-> those kids saw the characters on the sides of the box and begged their
-> parents to go to the toy stores...
Long history after a couple of months? Interbot, how long did the TF toy
line last after the cartoon died initally? Many people didn't know of the
comic yet they didn't forget the toys!!
-> "it is long history"... first of all, does the phrase "run-on sentence"
-> mean anything to you? Second of all, so the offer is over. What, did you
-> think that it would run indefinately or something? Besides, just because
-> it's OVER doesn't mean that kids have completely FORGOTTEN about them.
-> Come on, kids aren't stupid. Besides, the Disney promo that followed the
-> BW promo is over, and have kids forgotten about Disney? HUH?
No, but they wish they had (:
-> > i would think they would order more BW to fill the need
Yep, that's it Interbot. How insightful of you to realise that Toy stores
have ultimate power over shipping, supply and production rates and
quantities.
-> We've already sliced this one to ribbons....
<sharpens claws, looks to Interbot>
Darren, dripping with sarcasm today (:
Raksha
In article <4p9a29$6...@news.nyu.edu>,
Fill in your name here <ye...@is2.nyu.edu> wrote:
> Now, you could say "Well, they're Maximals and Predacons now so
>that's different." and "They have organic matter now, that's different."
>To that point, I have to say this. The fact that they're not known as
>Autobots and Decepticons has NO bearing whatsoever on the fact that the
>keep in mind that there is not a total disassociation with the Autobots
>and Decepticons, they still exist, but they're back on Cybertron.
Actually I'm still ignoring the names "Predacon" and "Maximal" and will just
keep calling them Decepticons and Autobots. I don't think there were *four*
factions on Cybertron; these two new groups are just subgroups of the two
factions, as far as I'm concerned. If the Predacons were a totally different
group than the Decepticons, then their leader (however unworthy) wouldn't have
tried to improve his image by taking on the name of the best of the Decepticon
leaders. So this alone tells me that the "Predacons" are as much Decepticons
as any G1 characters....
msipher
On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Matthew High wrote:
> On May 12, 1996, Robert A. Jung wrote:
> >
> > In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.96060...@bessel.nando.net>
> > msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
> > >Heh. You'll notice that MMPR is trying the pure-robot thing now...
> > >the new enemies are big nasty robots instead of psuedo-beasts. It's a
> > >switcheroo!!!
> >
> > Just to be the MMPR authority around here, but the reason that show
> > is using "pure robots" now is because that's the villian-of-the-year
> > of the Japanese Sendai show currently being butchered/lifted/adapted
> > for America. To think that MMPR is changing themese because of market
> > or audience forces is to give Saban Entertainment more credit than
> > they deserve. B-)
> >
> True enough. Personally, I thought the OH-Ranger robots were pretty
> cool (okay, except for the one that turns into a giant tire), at least
> in their original context. I just lament the extremely simplistic
> gestalt design that resulted. Methinks that Saban wasn't the only lazy
> company that year...
Well, I knew about MMPR's origins. I just wasn't aware that the latest
batch was part of the same series the old stuff was from... I don't pay
much attention to that stuff. I thought they just kiped from several
different shows. My mistake.
Is it just me, or does one of the legs look like a Dalek? EXTERMINATE!!
EXTERMINATE!!!!
In fact, the only sentai toys I've ever bought were those "ZAP Power
Force" thingies that are currently four bucks a pop at Kay-Bee. Those are
GREAT. I'm tempted to buy a bunch more and start kit-bashing....
> Oh, and it's "sentai"; Sendai is a city. It won't make a difference
> here, of course, but thank goodness you didn't make that mistake on your
> trip. No telling where you'd have ended up! :-)
From what I gather (in other words, I read _Dave Barry Does Japan_),
figuring out where the hell you are in Japan is hard enough anyway...
still love to go someday, tho. If anything, just to get that final
Nelories CD I want, maybe some RockMan stuff... they get all the neat
stuff. That burns my rump.
M "Ain't NO WAY I'm Driving That Oversized Tilt-A-Whirl Into Battle" Sipher
Trnsfrmrs
Raksha is right Razorclaw is the ancient leader of the Predacons. Nifty
eh?
Trnsfrmrs
BTW I know recolours did bad. Bad marketing then too. I was not saying to
bring out recoloured TFs but to bring out the classics with metallic
parts. (see new TFs post Wow they read my mind hmmmm) G2 Seaspray & G2
Bumblebee are not recoloured! They have shiny parts that is all. I guess
some people just don't read all of the posts. I may be a twit but I am not
a mindless twit.
(as MSIPHER's claws get rusty)
Trnsfrmrs
I suppose the internet is not immune to rampant rumors. Some people think
that I was trying to insult them for liking BW. That is not true. Just
because I dislike BW is no reason to jump down my throat. I point out some
things about BW & every BW fan is up in arms. To quote a famous character
"Don't have cow man!"
I guess that red plague thing is still around.
(as msipher's claws get rusty & fall off)
Matthew High
On May 14, 1996, msipher wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Matthew High wrote:
>
> > On May 12, 1996, Robert A. Jung wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.96060...@bessel.nando.
>>> net> msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
>>>>the new enemies are big nasty robots instead of psuedo-beasts. It's
>>>>a switcheroo!!!
>>>
>>> is using "pure robots" now is because that's the villian-of-the-year
>>> of the Japanese Sendai show currently being butchered/lifted/adapted
>>> for America. To think that MMPR is changing themese because of
>>> market or audience forces is to give Saban Entertainment more credit
>>> than they deserve. B-)
>>>
>> True enough. Personally, I thought the OH-Ranger robots were pretty
>> cool (okay, except for the one that turns into a giant tire), at
>> least in their original context. I just lament the extremely
>> simplistic gestalt design that resulted. Methinks that Saban wasn't
>> the only lazy company that year...
>
> Well, I knew about MMPR's origins. I just wasn't aware that the latest
> batch was part of the same series the old stuff was from... I don't
> pay much attention to that stuff. I thought they just kiped from
> several different shows. My mistake.
Not really. The MMPR robots are from different shows, a different one
each season. The shows are just all from the same genre: sentai (task
force), the one that involves the multi-colored team and their giant
robot taking on the demons or aliens who are out to do Earth no good.
All the 1st season mecha were from DINO-WARRIORS JUURANGER, 2nd from
FIVE-STAR FIGHTING TEAM DAIRANGER, 3rd from NINJA TASK FORCE KAKURANGER,
4th (current) from SUPER-POWER TEAM OH-RANGER.
(Side note: If I make it to BotCon, I have GOT to bring my tape dub of
the Super Sentai 15 CD set, just so anyone interested can here the
original Dairanger credits. They are ultra-cool.)
>
> Is it just me, or does one of the legs look like a Dalek?
> EXTERMINATE!! EXTERMINATE!!!!
Hee hee...but neither has a plunger arm.
>
> In fact, the only sentai toys I've ever bought were those "ZAP Power
> Force" thingies that are currently four bucks a pop at Kay-Bee. Those
> are GREAT. I'm tempted to buy a bunch more and start kit-bashing....
>
Yeah, those are pretty cool. Those are figures from a mid-80's show
called CYBERCOP. It was actually pretty cheesy; mostly shot on video
with very obvious blue-screen and/or computer-composited effects.
Doug "Gosei Sentai" Dlin
Fill in your name here
Raksha (jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
> In article <4p9a29$6...@news.nyu.edu>,
> Fill in your name here <ye...@is2.nyu.edu> wrote:
> Actually I'm still ignoring the names "Predacon" and "Maximal" and will just
> keep calling them Decepticons and Autobots. I don't think there were *four*
> factions on Cybertron; these two new groups are just subgroups of the two
> factions, as far as I'm concerned. If the Predacons were a totally different
> group than the Decepticons, then their leader (however unworthy) wouldn't have
> tried to improve his image by taking on the name of the best of the Decepticon
> leaders. So this alone tells me that the "Predacons" are as much Decepticons
> as any G1 characters....
Actually, Bob Forward has already told me that the Predacons and
Maximals are indeed another group of Cybertronians existing on Cybertron
alongside the Autobots and Decepticons so they are different groups. As
for names, I understand what you're saying but think about it for a
moment, I have the middle name of Gregory but I do not have a father (or
any relative) named Greg. My middle name came from the actor Gregory
Peck, but I am definately not the same ethnicity as Mr. Peck, nor am I an
actor. Different ethnicities can take on names from other groups to use.
I think Predacon Meggy could have done the same. He could have read or
learned about G1 Megatron's past accomplishments and life and decided that
he wanted the name and took it on. Hey, it could happen.
BTW, you go right ahead and use Autobots and Decepticons
for the Beast Wars group names Raksha, I'm not telling you not to or
saying there's anything wrong with doing so. I'm just a bit sleepy and
playing devil's advocate for the moment. In the morning I'll probably
forget I posted this...zzzzz. :)
Fill in your name here
Trnsfrmrs (trns...@aol.com) wrote:
> I suppose the internet is not immune to rampant rumors. Some people think
> that I was trying to insult them for liking BW. That is not true. Just
> because I dislike BW is no reason to jump down my throat. I point out some
> things about BW & every BW fan is up in arms. To quote a famous character
> "Don't have cow man!"
> I guess that red plague thing is still around.
>
I can't speak for everyone else but Interbot, MY personal problem
with you is not really so much that you don't like Beast Wars but that you
have a tendency to be IMMENSELY misinformed before you start raving about
how much you hate Beast Wars. When people post follow up posts to explain
things about Beast Wars to you, it often seems like you skim or don't read
the follow up posts at all and just respond with one line quotes that just
basically say again "I hate Beast Wars."
A lot of people prefer to have a logical, objective discussion
that goes beyond one liners such as "I think Beast Wars suck." or "G1 was
better!", get it?
Scott Neukam
trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) wrote:
>BTW I know recolours did bad. Bad marketing then too. I was not saying to
>bring out recoloured TFs but to bring out the classics with metallic
>parts. (see new TFs post Wow they read my mind hmmmm) G2 Seaspray & G2
One thing though: G2 DID NOT SELL. WHO IS GOING TO BUY ALL OF THE
*NEW, METALLIC TFS*, TO JUSTIFY HASBRO SPENDING MONEY MAKING THEM?
And BTW, if your other post abou new non-BW TF's is true. then I'll
eat my Headmasters.
>Bumblebee are not recoloured! They have shiny parts that is all. I guess
>some people just don't read all of the posts. I may be a twit but I am not
>a mindless twit.
Where did that "some people don't read all the posts" comment come
from? And about being a twit, you said it, not me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Neukam, sco...@viaduct.custom.net
"Nnn! Blasted youth element!" -Nightbeat
Andrew Crane
A Certain Plumed Serpent <jk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote
>Actually I'm still ignoring the names "Predacon" and "Maximal" and will just
>keep calling them Decepticons and Autobots. I don't think there were *four*
>factions on Cybertron; these two new groups are just subgroups of the two
>factions, as far as I'm concerned.
--
Andrew C
Robert A. Jung
In article <4psov5$m...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> trns...@aol.com (Trnsfrmrs) writes:
>I suppose the internet is not immune to rampant rumors. Some people think
>that I was trying to insult them for liking BW. That is not true.
Well, your posts sure looked that way. WHose fault is that, yours for
writing in a manner that didn't reflect your thoughts, or ours for not being
to read your mind and know what you really meant?
Dan Campbell
> In fact, the only sentai toys I've ever bought were those "ZAP Power
> Force" thingies that are currently four bucks a pop at Kay-Bee. Those are
> GREAT. I'm tempted to buy a bunch more and start kit-bashing....
Yes please! :) Their joints are (if a little limited) good for bashing
:)
--
Dan
Raksha
In article <frecRDA$8Exx...@pg-drive.demon.co.uk>,
Yeah, but that's just because you want those Go-bot recolors from me.... ;)
(Get back to me about those, btw. I have them, just would rather trade than
sell if you have anything available....)
DeadPhrog
In article <31C220...@texas.net>, Matthew High <ant...@texas.net>
wrote:
>On May 14, 1996, msipher wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Matthew High wrote:
>>
>> > On May 12, 1996, Robert A. Jung wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.96060...@bessel.nando.
>>>> net> msipher <msi...@nando.net> writes:
>>>>>Heh. You'll notice that MMPR is trying the pure-robot thing now...
>>>>>the new enemies are big nasty robots instead of psuedo-beasts.
It's
>>>>>a switcheroo!!!
>>>>
<SNIP!!!!> <HACK!> <TEAR!!> MMPR crap cut for space...
>All the 1st season mecha were from DINO-WARRIORS JUURANGER, 2nd from
>FIVE-STAR FIGHTING TEAM DAIRANGER, 3rd from NINJA TASK FORCE
KAKURANGER,
>4th (current) from SUPER-POWER TEAM OH-RANGER.
>
>(Side note: If I make it to BotCon, I have GOT to bring my tape dub of
>the Super Sentai 15 CD set, just so anyone interested can here the
>original Dairanger credits. They are ultra-cool.)
>>
>> Is it just me, or does one of the legs look like a Dalek?
>> EXTERMINATE!! EXTERMINATE!!!!
>
>Hee hee...but neither has a plunger arm.
>>
>> In fact, the only sentai toys I've ever bought were those "ZAP Power
>> Force" thingies that are currently four bucks a pop at Kay-Bee.
Those
>> are GREAT. I'm tempted to buy a bunch more and start kit-bashing....
You know, it's really amazing to see the MMPR is "based" on a cartoon
called Galaxy Rangers. IT's mentioned in fine print in the credits.
All I can find out about Galaxy Rangers is an ad for videos in an old
TF comic, ironic, no? Oh, BTW, I found the ccooolllest store full of
robots from all over, TFs included. I saw Japaneese TF's there, and
Japaneese robots that MMPR stole, and TONS of other stuff. A Metroplex
mint in undamaged box was there... Lotsa kewl stuff...
Matthew High
>
> In article <31C220...@texas.net>, Matthew High <ant...@texas.net>
> wrote:
> >On May 14, 1996, msipher wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Matthew High wrote:
> >>
> >> > On May 12, 1996, Robert A. Jung wrote:
> >>>>
nicely posable cyborg figures based on another Japanese live-action
show, snipped]
>
> You know, it's really amazing to see the MMPR is "based" on a cartoon
> called Galaxy Rangers. IT's mentioned in fine print in the credits.
> All I can find out about Galaxy Rangers is an ad for videos in an old
> TF comic, ironic, no?
Say WHAT?!? Oh man, this is too much. I have got to check this out.
If this is true, then not only does Saban avoid acknowledging the
Japanese origins of MMPR, they're now attributing the influences to a
completely unrelated (though very cool, BTW) made-for-America animated
series!
> Oh, BTW, I found the ccooolllest store full of
> robots from all over, TFs included. I saw Japaneese TF's there, and
> Japaneese robots that MMPR stole, and TONS of other stuff. A
> Metroplex mint in undamaged box was there... Lotsa kewl stuff...
And this store is...? (Name? Location? Stock? Price range?)
Doug Dlin
Suzanne M. Ferree
In a previous article, msi...@nando.net (msipher) says:
>On 8 Jun 1996, Trnsfrmrs wrote:
>I quoted you exactly. I *KNOW* that you've changed your mind. You've
>
invited? :)
>> >Now, if THAT didn't alert kids to BW, just what in the hell >WILL? A
>> Happy
>> >Meal promotion... let's face it folks, it doesn't get much >bigger than
>> >that.
>>
>> Nope it didn't it is long history.
>
>"Nope it didn't" WHAT?! Alert kids to BW? As I and others have told,
>there were LOTS of kids with the BW Happy Meals. And I guarentee you
>those kids saw the characters on the sides of the box and begged their
>parents to go to the toy stores...
Well, I'm almost 100% positive that Beast Wars are still *really*
selling. Point 1, it was really hard for me to find Cheetor (& I
ended up getting him w/ blue eyes). True, he's becoming easier to find
but he's still not as common as Rhinox.
Point 2, a couple of days ago I went to the Council Bluffs,
Iowa K-Mart. Over the past few years, this has been "my favorite
K-Mart" for the past 2 years. This is the K-Mart where I saw the
K-Mart Legends Bumblebee (but I didn't buy him because I didn't like him)
in 1994, several years after he was out of production. This is also the
K-Mart where I got my G2 Starscream when the only other store in my
area to carry him was Kay Bee. When I went there, almost every single
toy line was full on the shelves EXCEPT Beast Wars--over half of their
inventory of Beast Wars was gone! In Omaha, NE (on the other side of
the state border) TFs (especially Decepticons) have always sold well,
but at this store it's another story.
>"it is long history"... first of all, does the phrase "run-on sentence"
>mean anything to you? Second of all, so the offer is over. What, did you
>think that it would run indefinately or something? Besides, just because
>it's OVER doesn't mean that kids have completely FORGOTTEN about them.
>Come on, kids aren't stupid. Besides, the Disney promo that followed the
>BW promo is over, and have kids forgotten about Disney? HUH?
True, the promo is history, but it lasted about a month & a week.
Think about how many hundreds of thousands of kids were exposed to
them in just that time frame...
>> . Just because Batman replaced Beast Wars on a shelf,
>> > that just probably means that the store's Beast Wars stock is selling
>> and
>> > they had the extra room for the Batman figures.
>>
>> i would think they would order more BW to fill the need
>
>We've already sliced this one to ribbons....
Maybe they *did* order more, but they might be on back-order until
the new figures come out...
--
Suzanne Ferree | "Swinging Safari"
E-mail: ev...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu | "Eternal Flame"
or: s...@grex.cyberspace.org | aka: Flamethrower@2005
or: sfe...@s-cwis.unomaha.edu | aka: Safari@TF1
Robert A. Jung
Security system (or lack thereof)...? B-)
Seriously, maybe we should develop a list of "cool toy stores" for folks
who want to hunt for rare and exotic robo-stuff. As a quick contribution,
I nominate "Toy Planet" in Santa Monica, CA (on the very touristy Third
Street Promenade). They've got movie posters, imported Japanese robot model
kits (Gundams especially), action figures galore, and even old Transformers
(MIB and loose) for sale. I can dig up directions for anyone who wants...
DeadPhrog
rj...@netcom.com (Robert A. Jung) wrote:
>In article <31D211...@texas.net> ant...@texas.net writes:
>>On June 26, 1996, DeadPhrog wrote:
>>> Oh, BTW, I found the ccooolllest store full of
>>> robots from all over, TFs included. I saw Japaneese TF's there, and
>>> Japaneese robots that MMPR stole, and TONS of other stuff. A
>>> Metroplex mint in undamaged box was there... Lotsa kewl stuff...
>>
>>And this store is...? (Name? Location? Stock? Price range?)
Can't remember the name, Alameda, ?, cheap to expensive.
Next time I'm in Alameda I'll find out the name.
Oh, BTW, the have Macross 7 models there too.
> Seriously, maybe we should develop a list of "cool toy stores" for folks
>who want to hunt for rare and exotic robo-stuff. As a quick contribution,
>I nominate "Toy Planet" in Santa Monica, CA (on the very touristy Third
>Street Promenade). They've got movie posters, imported Japanese robot model
>kits (Gundams especially), action figures galore, and even old Transformers
>(MIB and loose) for sale. I can dig up directions for anyone who wants...
Kewl!
----====DeadPhrog====---- President and founder of SHATTERED PERSPECTIVES GAMES
Offcial ZZT/MZX NL reporter || Author of the fanfic work in progress, ROBOTECH: Secrets of the Flower. || "When does the hurting stop?" -Bill (in Terrible Thunder Lizards) || If you hadn't stopped to read this, you could be home by now. || The answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything ISSss: 42. From the Hitchiker's Guide series. || "Don't tell me what I wanna hear, 'Fraid I'm never knowin' fear..."-Nirvana, again. Check please!