The Rhino Problem
Gregatron
Well, now. Here we are, with Rhino's G1 season 3 DVD set approaching.
Hmmm.
Okay. Let's review the track record of one Rhino Home Entertainment...
The Transformers Season 1 box set:
This set uses beautiful 35mm negatives as the basis for the DVD
versions of the episodes (the original airings that most fans know and
love came from the finished 1" broadcast master tapes). Although the
picture is much more colorful and detailed than what we were used to,
the 35mm versions were, in some cases, incomplete (in other words,
they had unfinished, incorrect and/or unpolished animation sequences
that were fixed for the broadcast versions). Rhino made attempts to
splice in footage from the 1" broadcast versions to correct some of
these errors (as well as digitally cutting elements from the 1" tapes
and pasting them onto the 35mm versions, which looks AWFUL), but MANY
remain. Neraly every episode has some kind of error or change that was
NOT in the original version (even many of the faction scene bumpers in
MTMTE have been replaced with bumpers from other episodes, due to
their absence in the 35mm version). Fire in the Sky, Fire on the
Mountain, and (by far) Heavy Metal War suffer the most from this.
Also, the end titles actually use the credits from SEASON *2*
("copyright 1985", etc.), NOT season 1. This is due to the fact that
Rhino has access only to episodes without the episode titles and end
title credits (oddly enough), and had to recreate them for the DVD
sets.
The sound is another issue. The DVDs come with the option of 2.0 and
5.1 surround sound tracks. The 5.1 track is HORRID, as the episodes
were never MEANT to be mixed in 5.1. They just sound "wrong". Worst of
all is the fact that Rhino ADDED A BUNCH OF *CRAPPY*, "STOCK" CARTOON
SOUND EFFECTS (fire, laser blasts, jet flybys) TO THE ORIGINAL AUDIO.
These new sounds are distracting, and they drown out dialogue and
sound effects in many cases. Thankfully, the original audio is kept
intact on the 2.0 track, except for (inexplicably) the episodes on
disc 2, which contain the new 5.1 sound mix (the episodes in question
are "Divide and Conquer,"Fire in the Sky", "S.O.S. Dinobots", "Fire on
the Mountain", and "War of the Dinobots").
This new sound mix is a travesty. For those fans who are unfamiliar
with the series (as well as new fans who will be introduced to it via
the DVD sets), this is a slap in the face. I (and many others) waited
for YEARS to get the series on DVD. The DVDs should be the archival
version of the series, the one that is an accurate reflection of the
way the series was during its original run. Instead, we have a
patchwork of episodes, which are not entirely accurate to the original
versions, and create the same kind of problems the Generation 2
versions did in the early 90s. Rhino may have the right to release the
series on DVD, but what right do they have to muck with the work of
the original sound editors? These new sounds are not even part of the
TF G1 sound library and are wildly incongruous with the *real* sound
effects that were a staple of the series.
Still, aside from the inaccurate footage and a few episodes, the
picture quality is excellent, the best the episodes have ever seen.
The original commercial bumpers are also included (including, yes,
that's right, crappy new *sound effects* on the 5.1 audio tracks).
Thus, the sets are pretty much worthwhile.
Season 2 part 1 is the best Rhino G1 DVD release to date. As before,
the 35mm negatives were used as the basis for the episodes in the set,
but this time, they are almost entirely devoid of the errors that
plagued the season 1 DVD set. Aside from a bit of tampering with
historical accuracy (correcting the spelling of the title of "A
Deceptacon Raider in King Arthur's Court", and mistakenly removing the
the camera shakes at the end of "The Core"), the episodes are pretty
much the way they've always been, save for the pristine picture
quality. As stated above, the versions Rhino has access to do not
have actual episode titles or end credits, so they had to recreate the
white-lettered titles from fan-donated screencaps.
As for the sound, the 5.1 mix is, once again horrible (crappy new
sounds and all), but the 2.0 mix contains the original audio (except
for "Changing Gears", "City of Steel", "Attack of the Autobots", and
"Traitor", which have the crappy 5.1 sound mix in 2.0, also).
So, aside from four episodes having a sound problem, this set is
excellent.
Before the season 2 part 2 DVD set was released, reliable sources
indicated that Rhino promised to correct the "5.1 mix on 2.0 track"
problem for future releases. Well, when season 2 part 2 was released,
I was horrified to discover that EVERY SINGLE EPISODE in the set has
the crappy 5.1 mix in 2.0. That's right, not a *SINGLE* episode in
season 2 part 2 has the original audio. Even the commercial bumpers
have sound effects (although they consist of a sampled "transforming"
sound effect that actually comes from the *series*, not a stock sound
library).
I was upset, to say the VERY least (if you define "upset" as "flying
into a rage and wanting to smash everything is sight...").
Aside from that little problem, the picture quality and historical
accuracy of the set is great. But, that one little problem has ruined
the set for me, and I can barely bring myself to watch those episodes
now. I hate it that much.
So now, season 3 parts 1 and 2 are on their way. Will Rhino repeat the
mistakes of the past? Will they learn that they don't have the *right*
to muck things up like this? Will the fans settle for an inferior
product, instead of the historically accurate, archival collection
that these DVDs *should* represent????
I'm wondering about the new Beast Wars DVD sets, which are in,
surprise, surprise, 5.1. Has Rhino chosen to ruin yet another great
series with crappy sound effects? Only time will tell.
If you feel as strongly as I do, please voice your concern by
e-mailing suggestions to Rhino at:
Anyone can make a difference. We deserve better.
- Gregatron, concerned fan.
robo_rob
me. But yeah, the added explosions were pretty weird in the Season 2 set.
"Gregatron" <brund...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b360c78.03081...@posting.google.com...
TheHasselhoff
> This new sound mix is a travesty. For those fans who are unfamiliar
> with the series (as well as new fans who will be introduced to it via
> the DVD sets), this is a slap in the face.
> I was upset, to say the VERY least (if you define "upset" as "flying
> into a rage and wanting to smash everything is sight...").
Dude, you make it sound like Rhino killed somebody. You may not like
the new sound mix, but "a travesty"? "Flying into a rage"? IT'S A
CARTOON. Calm down.
> So now, season 3 parts 1 and 2 are on their way. Will Rhino repeat the
> mistakes of the past? Will they learn that they don't have the *right*
> to muck things up like this?
Um... never, because they DO have the right. Hasbro gave it to them.
> Will the fans settle for an inferior
> product, instead of the historically accurate, archival collection
> that these DVDs *should* represent????
Well, considering that the sets are selling so well that the BW series, and
possibly even the Japanese G1 series, are being released - I would say
the answer to your question is YES.
We are lucky to get DVDs of the episodes, at all. If Rhino hadn't taken
the chance on TFTM, it probably would have been years, if ever, before
the episodes came out. And, at least Rhino is TRYING. We could have
gotten some company that doesn't care about the material, and would just
take old FHE vhs copies and digitize them.
You talk as if the series truly deserves something more than its getting.
Again: it's a cartoon. It has a following but not THAT big of one. (Case
in
point: the DVDs are barely advertised in the weekly circulars when they
are released, and not put on sale - because they are specialty items, not
mainstream items.) I really like G1, but in the end, it's entertainment,
pure and simple.
Talking like this simply gives Hasbro one more reason to stop giving us
new products in the future. There are two ways to show Rhino you want
something different:
(1) POLITELY email them, with CONSTRUCTIVE criticizm.
(2) Don't buy their product.
Working yourself up like this only leads to anger. Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to the dark side... like the GoBots or something.
Noble Kale 14
>> This new sound mix is a travesty. For those fans who are unfamiliar
>> with the series (as well as new fans who will be introduced to it via
>> the DVD sets), this is a slap in the face.
>
>> I was upset, to say the VERY least (if you define "upset" as "flying
>> into a rage and wanting to smash everything is sight...").
>
>Dude, you make it sound like Rhino killed somebody. You may not like
>the new sound mix, but "a travesty"? "Flying into a rage"? IT'S A
>CARTOON. Calm down.
I was actually pretty upset about the new sound mix myself. "Transformers" may
just be a cartoon, but it's one many people (myself included) feel very
strongly and passionately about; and fans have the right to want these stories
that they loved preserved exactly as they were. Yes, it is a cartoon; but what
if a revered and classic movie (like, say, "Citizen Kane") was suddenly
re-released with all kinds of pointless changes and revisions made to the
movie? Wouldn't there be a huge outrage among movie fans everywhere? And would
that be any more reasonable than being upset about changes made to
"Transformers" just because "Citizen Kane" is held in higher esteem? I don't
think so; what matters in both cases is that it's something people enjoy and
feel strongly about.
>We are lucky to get DVDs of the episodes, at all. If Rhino hadn't taken
>the chance on TFTM, it probably would have been years, if ever, before
>the episodes came out. And, at least Rhino is TRYING. We could have
>gotten some company that doesn't care about the material, and would just
>take old FHE vhs copies and digitize them.
I agree. But still-Rhino could do better. When, for example, "The Two Towers"
is released on DVD and VHS, if it turned out to have crappy sound and all kinds
of mistakes from the theatrical version, I wouldn't sit there and say, "Well,
I'm lucky to have this movie on DVD at all! Peter Jackson didn't *have* to
release it, after all!"
>You talk as if the series truly deserves something more than its getting.
Well.....it does!
>Again: it's a cartoon. It has a following but not THAT big of one.
The size of the fan following has nothing whatsoever to do with it. That's
totally irrelevant.
>There are two ways to show Rhino you want
>something different:
>(1) POLITELY email them, with CONSTRUCTIVE criticizm.
>(2) Don't buy their product.
I agree, especially in the case of number 1. Sending them angry, volatile
sounding e-mails wouldn't help. But I don't think that's what Gregatron was
suggesting.
>Working yourself up like this only leads to anger. Anger leads to hate.
>Hate leads to the dark side... like the GoBots or something.
Brrr....GoBots.....scary. :)
Noble Kale
Firebird
I see that you're referring to the additional stock sounds added to
the first season. I, too, was irritated at these changes, however, I
was relieved to discover that few, if any, changes in the soundtrack
were made to the second season. I'd say that they've already listened
to the fans on the issue of the soundtracks, and that problem should
not arise with the season 3 box sets. At least, I hope it won't.
Hope you have better luck with the other two seasons.
Firebird
Obsessions Online
http://www.angelfire.com/ns/firepit/index.html
Online Portfolio
http://www33.brinkster.com/sryan/portfolio.html
edicius
initial post (which I can't see at all), I'll try and edit it down to
the simple points to get my view across. Let's try this again...
---
A travesty? That's overreacting.
I work in video production and in all honesty, the sound mix just
doesn't bother me. Maybe it's the way I have my receiver settings
configured or what not or maybe things like this don't phase me, but
it certainly didn't make me want to fly into a rage.
When it comes down to it, I'm simply happy to be able to watch the old
G1 eps whenever I want on DVD. I would think any old school TF fan
would easily share this sentiment. I bought the TF:2010 LD set years
ago because I *never* thought Transformers would see DVD releases. I
don't think any of us really did. And now that we have them, all we
can do is complain about them? This is like waiting 17 years for
Unicron to come out and complaining that you don't like his color
scheme, there's too much rubber, they didn't get his body right, etc.
We should be thankful that we're currently experiencing a TF
renaissance at all, good or, in some viewpoints, bad. Would you rather
have TF DVDs with an imperfect sound mix...or none at all? It's not a
tough choice for me.
---
Valid points, yes. Flaming or insulting, not at all. Mind you, I
edited out my little remark that included Wheelie doing something not
so nice to a family member. Creates an interesting visual though. :)
---
+kevin.wojtaszek+ (edicius)
http://www.edicius.org
e-mail: edicius(at)edicius(dot)org
---
"I have yet to see any problem, however complicated,
which, when you looked at it in the right way, did not
become still more complicated." -- Poul Anderson
"Eat a live toad first thing in the morning and nothing
worse will happen to you the rest of the day." ? Unknown
---
Noble Kale 14
>When it comes down to it, I'm simply happy to be able to watch the old
>G1 eps whenever I want on DVD. I would think any old school TF fan=20
>would easily share this sentiment.
So am I! In fact, I'm not only "simply happy" about it, I'm ecstatic! I've
wished for something like this a long time! And though I may dislike the added
sound effects, it doesn't mean the entire DVD set is ruined for me.
>I bought the TF:2010 LD set years=20
>ago because I *never* thought Transformers would see DVD releases. I=20
>don't think any of us really did. And now that we have them, all we=20
>can do is complain about them?
No, just complain about the new sound effects. :)
>We should be thankful that we're currently experiencing a TF=20
>renaissance at all, good or, in some viewpoints, bad. Would you rather
>have TF DVDs with an imperfect sound mix...or none at all? It's not a=20
>tough choice for me.
Nor for me. But I *still* wish that they'd left in all the original sound
effects from the series. It's going to be taken differently by different
people-some people aren't going to mind, whereas other, more
perfectionist/completist minded people (like me) are going to wish every detail
to be perfect. Both viewpoints are okay. As long as details like that don't
destroy my overall excitement and joy over the DVDs (which they don't), then
I'm fine.
>Valid points, yes. Flaming or insulting, not at all. Mind you, I
>edited out my little remark that included Wheelie doing something not
>so nice to a family member. Creates an interesting visual though. :)
Says you! Thanks, but I'd just as soon not have that image to deal with in my
mind. :)
Noble Kale
Gregatron
> >something different:
> >(1) POLITELY email them, with CONSTRUCTIVE criticizm.
> >(2) Don't buy their product.
>
> I agree, especially in the case of number 1. Sending them angry, volatile
> sounding e-mails wouldn't help. But I don't think that's what Gregatron was
> suggesting.
I have sent a few polite, diplomatic emails to Rhino on the matter,
with no reply. I've tried to explain my gripes, and given
*constructive* critcism.
It's just that the sound work is *so* annoying, the animation
mistakes/fixes *so* blatant ("The Master Builder"???? How did *that*
happen?), that I have a great deal of personal anger concerning these
dvds.
Come on, if there are spelling/grammatical errors on the *box* as well
as on the discs themselves, how much of a quality control team does
Rhino have????
The "fixes" in season 1 are particularly bad. For example, in "The
Ultimate Doom part 3", when Mirage becomes visible in Megatron's ship,
Rhino cut a Mirage from the 35mm negative and pasted it over the 1"
broadcast background, complete with ragged 35mm artifacts around his
body. How sloppy.
- Gregatron