Creation and Predators
Devils Advocaat
that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
answer the following questions:
1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
2) Why do some animals possess venom?
3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
4) And when did they become so?
Nashton
You're incapable (or simply a liar) of comprehending something as simple
as a statement made by a poster. Answering these questions will hardly
help you ameliorate your reading comprehension skills.
Ron O
> If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth, and accepts
> that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> answer the following questions:
>
> 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
They degenerated after the fall.
>
> 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
Rapid micro evolution as adaptation to the degeneration after the
fall.
>
> 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
Rapid micro evolution as adaptiation to the degeneration after the
fall, and the designer may have liked the spiffy suits.
>
> 4) And when did they become so?
After the fall. It is all because some jerks ate from the fruit of
the tree of knowledge. If the designer had a lick of sense he would
have made it the cockroach of knowledge or the slimy sea squirt of
knowledge and it would have stayed uneaten for a longer period of
time.
Ron Okimoto
Chris
Translation: "I have neither the intellectual integrity nor the
cojones to answer your questions. Therefore I resort, as I always do,
to invective."
Thanks for showing your true colors, Nashton.
Again.
Chris
PS: "Ameliorate" does not mean what you seem to think it means. Look
it up.
Nashton
Clown.
Chris
Still unable to respond. Good work.
Did you find out what "ameliorate" really means?
Chris
Devils Advocaat
First point, I was not responding to anyone else's postings in any
other thread.
Second point, Creationists generally insist on a literal reading of
the creation account in Genesis.
Third point, Genesis 1:30 on that basis shows that all birds, beasts
and creeping things were created as herbivores.
Bringing those points together gives me the basis for my questions.
Your terse and invective response shows that you are unwilling to
answer my questions or even debate the issues raised by them.
So I am at a loss as to why you even bothered to respond to my opening
post.
All-seeing-I
> that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> answer the following questions:
>
> 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
Creation has been corrupted. All of creation is not in it's original
state. That means even things like parasites are not performing their
original and designed function. We may never know what that function
was until we change our perspective after death of the organic body.
>
> 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
see above
> 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
Some features evolved in response to the corruption to survive
>
> 4) And when did they become so
Sometime before the flood
Grandbank
(snip)
>
> Creation has been corrupted.
(snip)
Or, to put it in more prosaic terms, it has evolved like a son of a
bitch.
KP
Devils Advocaat
> On Sep 24, 3:22 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth, and accepts
> > that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> > answer the following questions:
>
> > 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>
> Creation has been corrupted. All of creation is not in it's original
> state. That means even things like parasites are not performing their
> original and designed function. We may never know what that function
> was until we change our perspective after death of the organic body.
>
events after it as literal truth, came about as a result of God's
reaction.
He cursed the serpent for what he had done, making him crawl on his
belly and eat dust for the rest of his days.
He cursed the woman for listening to the serpent, making her suffer in
childbirth and be subservient to her husband.
He cursed the man for listening to the woman, making him work the land
to raise food.
And he cursed the ground, making it bring forth thorns and thistles,
adding to the man's burdens.
But according to the Bible no other beasts, birds, fish, or creeping
things were cursed to eat the flesh of other living things.
So you haven't really explained the existence of the predators,
carrion eaters, or parasites.
>
> > 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
>
> see above
See my comments above.
>
> > 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
>
> Some features evolved in response to the corruption to survive
>
Again there is nothing in the Bible to support your comment.
>
> > 4) And when did they become so
>
> Sometime before the flood
See my comment above.
Perhaps there is a flaw in your reasoning, especially as it isn't
supported by even the most liberal of literal interpretations of the
Genesis accounts.
Devils Advocaat
So do only sons of bitches evolve? :P
Kermit
Yup, like a bat outta Hell. But evolution couldn't have happened,
because there hasn't been enough time. But spiders are still the
gentle berry-sucking kind. And snakes ate only egg plants. Egg plant
fruit can be slippery, so their teeth slope backwards to keep 'em
going in the right direction. The venom delivery system
evolved*H^H^H^H adapted in a few thousand years, but evolution
couldn't give a fish legs.
Cheetahs, presumably, ate very fast root vegetables (they use those
claws to dig with, yes?).
Kermit
Mike Painter
> On Sep 24, 3:22 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth, and
>> accepts that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat
>> vegetation, answer the following questions:
>>
>> 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>
> Creation has been corrupted. All of creation is not in it's original
> state. That means even things like parasites are not performing their
> original and designed function. We may never know what that function
> was until we change our perspective after death of the organic body.
>>
>> 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
>
> see above
Did ther grapes have feet to run away with?
Your "corruption" implies a rather rapid evolution.
>
>> 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
>
> Some features evolved in response to the corruption to survive
So you do accept evolution. You do realize that many of teh changes needed
in your little world happen far faster and are far more radical than what
you probably call macro evolution.
>
>>
>> 4) And when did they become so
>
> Sometime before the flood.
Why did it stop?
Nashton
This wouldn't be the first time you would be at a loss.
All-seeing-I
> On 24 Sep, 15:11, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:> On Sep 24, 3:22 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth, and accepts
> > > that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> > > answer the following questions:
>
> > > 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>
> > Creation has been corrupted. All of creation is not in it's original
> > state. That means even things like parasites are not performing their
> > original and designed function. We may never know what that function
> > was until we change our perspective after death of the organic body.
>
> Actually the corruption, if one takes the creation account and the
> events after it as literal truth, came about as a result of God's
> reaction.
Actually there were more forces at work on the corruption then you
have outlined here.
>
> He cursed the serpent for what he had done, making him crawl on his
> belly and eat dust for the rest of his days.
>
> He cursed the woman for listening to the serpent, making her suffer in
> childbirth and be subservient to her husband.
>
> He cursed the man for listening to the woman, making him work the land
> to raise food.
>
> And he cursed the ground, making it bring forth thorns and thistles,
> adding to the man's burdens.
>
> But according to the Bible no other beasts, birds, fish, or creeping
> things were cursed to eat the flesh of other living things.
>
> So you haven't really explained the existence of the predators,
> carrion eaters, or parasites.
>
>
>
> > > 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
>
> > see above
>
> See my comments above.
>
> > > 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
>
> > Some features evolved in response to the corruption to survive
>
> Again there is nothing in the Bible to support your comment.
>
There are other texts that go into more detail.
>
> > > 4) And when did they become so
>
> > Sometime before the flood
>
> See my comment above.
>
> Perhaps there is a flaw in your reasoning, especially as it isn't
> supported by even the most liberal of literal interpretations of the
> Genesis accounts.
Much of the earth was corrupted ---not by God ---but by the Sons Of
God. God punished Satan, and then punished Adam and Eve for obeying
Satan. The earth's corruption came after the fall and before the
flood. We have been over this already. But you fail to grasp it. Why
is that?
BTW, 2012 is near.
Devils Advocaat
And this wouldn't be the first thread in which you have failed to make
a worthwhile contribution.
Devils Advocaat
> On Sep 24, 9:33 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 24 Sep, 15:11, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:> On Sep 24, 3:22 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth, and accepts
> > > > that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> > > > answer the following questions:
>
> > > > 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>
> > > Creation has been corrupted. All of creation is not in it's original
> > > state. That means even things like parasites are not performing their
> > > original and designed function. We may never know what that function
> > > was until we change our perspective after death of the organic body.
>
> > Actually the corruption, if one takes the creation account and the
> > events after it as literal truth, came about as a result of God's
> > reaction.
>
> Actually there were more forces at work on the corruption then you
> have outlined here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > He cursed the serpent for what he had done, making him crawl on his
> > belly and eat dust for the rest of his days.
>
> > He cursed the woman for listening to the serpent, making her suffer in
> > childbirth and be subservient to her husband.
>
> > He cursed the man for listening to the woman, making him work the land
> > to raise food.
>
> > And he cursed the ground, making it bring forth thorns and thistles,
> > adding to the man's burdens.
>
> > But according to the Bible no other beasts, birds, fish, or creeping
> > things were cursed to eat the flesh of other living things.
>
> > So you haven't really explained the existence of the predators,
> > carrion eaters, or parasites.
>
> > > > 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
>
> > > see above
>
> > See my comments above.
>
> > > > 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
>
> > > Some features evolved in response to the corruption to survive
>
> > Again there is nothing in the Bible to support your comment.
>
> There are other texts that go into more detail.
>
>
> > > > 4) And when did they become so
>
> > > Sometime before the flood
>
> > See my comment above.
>
> > Perhaps there is a flaw in your reasoning, especially as it isn't
> > supported by even the most liberal of literal interpretations of the
> > Genesis accounts.
>
> Much of the earth was corrupted ---not by God ---but by the Sons Of
> God. God punished Satan, and then punished Adam and Eve for obeying
> Satan. The earth's corruption came after the fall and before the
> flood. We have been over this already. But you fail to grasp it. Why
> is that?
You have made a few unsupported comments, which isn't exactly a
thorough explanation is it?
>
> BTW, 2012 is near.
So is 2010, much nearer.
Burkhard
<snip not particularly novel of aesthetically pleasing DIY religion>
>
> BTW, 2012 is near.
>
>
>
That is probably the first factually correct statement I ever seen you
make on TO, bravo!!! Yes, 2012 is near, as is 2013 and 2011
Ken Denny
> On Sep 24, 9:33 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Again there is nothing in the Bible to support your comment.
>
> There are other texts that go into more detail.
Wait a minute. *Other texts*? Written by whom? Humans? The Bible is
the "Word of God"(tm). How can mere humans improve on that? You're
claiming that there are humans who know more than God.
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Nashton <na...@na.ca>:
Quote from some self-righteous moron in the "Darwin down..."
thread:
[Nashton]
"Try engaging people in debate instead of making sweeping
generalizations about them, that are worthless and make you
appear like a miserable fanatic."
Mote.
Beam.
Eye.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Nashton <na...@no.ca>:
Quote from some self-righteous moron in the "Darwin down..."
Grandbank
Well, as you probably recall, when plants were running from the
advancing waters of the flood, the plants that were created to look
more modern outran the plants that were created to look as if they
were older and thus were buried above them in the post-deluge
sediments. This provides ample proof that vegedatory species like the
cheetah needed to run fast. Indeed, the Bible is the greatest science
book ever!
KP
Ken Denny
>
> Spiders were originally designed to eat grapes?
> Did ther grapes have feet to run away with?
No grapes flew. That's why spiders were designed to build webs. To
catch flying grapes. Of course sometimes flying insects got caught in
the webs. Before the fall, the spiders generously cut them loose.
After the fall grapes lost the ability to fly.
Klaus Hellnick
I think he meant that your comprehension was excessive.
David Hare-Scott
> On Sep 24, 3:22 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth, and
>> accepts that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat
>> vegetation, answer the following questions:
>>
>> 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>
> Creation has been corrupted. All of creation is not in it's original
> state. That means even things like parasites are not performing their
> original and designed function. We may never know what that function
> was until we change our perspective after death of the organic body.
>
Why? how?
David
David Hare-Scott
Having set the hook I shall now reel thee in.
>
>>
>>>> 4) And when did they become so
>>
>>> Sometime before the flood
>>
>> See my comment above.
>>
>> Perhaps there is a flaw in your reasoning, especially as it isn't
>> supported by even the most liberal of literal interpretations of the
>> Genesis accounts.
>
> Much of the earth was corrupted ---not by God ---but by the Sons Of
> God. God punished Satan, and then punished Adam and Eve for obeying
> Satan. The earth's corruption came after the fall and before the
> flood. We have been over this already. But you fail to grasp it. Why
> is that?
>
>
> BTW, 2012 is near.
Yea verily this star drag is good, God hath wrought well.
D
heekster
VoiceOfReason
ROFL!
Stephen
Just curious -- what do you say it means?
Regards,
Stephen
--
Desertphile
<mank...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth,
"The?" Which one is "the" one?
> and accepts
> that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> answer the following questions:
>
> 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>
> 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
>
> 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
>
> 4) And when did they become so?
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Desertphile
> Devils Advocaat wrote:
> > If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth, and accepts
> > that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> > answer the following questions:
> >
> > 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
> >
> > 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
> >
> > 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
> >
> > 4) And when did they become so?
> You're incapable (or simply a liar) of comprehending something as simple
> as a statement made by a poster. Answering these questions will hardly
> help you ameliorate your reading comprehension skills.
Creationist-fucktard-to-sane-person Translation: "Golly, I never
even thought of those things. Why, my cult masters must have lied
to me! Their interpretation of the Bibl;e must be WRONG!
(SHUDDER!) Well, I had better evade the questions because the gods
are watching me and if I stop believing my cult masters I'll burn
in their Hell forever!"
Baron Bodissey
> > Again there is nothing in the Bible to support your comment.
>
> There are other texts that go into more detail.
>
What other texts? Please be specific.
Baron Bodissey
That remains to be seen, as the cat said who voided into the sugar
bowl.
– Jack Vance
Devils Advocaat
> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:22:44 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>
> > If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth,
>
> "The?" Which one is "the" one?
Ah now, according to the majority of Creationists there is only (ahem)
one creation account, and what the unbeliever says is a separate
account is actually a more detailed description of what happened. :)
>
> > and accepts
> > that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
> > answer the following questions:
>
> > 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>
> > 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
>
> > 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
>
> > 4) And when did they become so?
>
Wombat
Twatman is enamoured of 'ancient texts'. Some of them are all of 1500
years old.
He once let slip a reference to a website containing these texts that
also was advertising a book by Graham Hancock.
Wombat
Mike Painter
> On 25 Sep, 01:42, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:22:44 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>>
>> <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth,
>>
>> "The?" Which one is "the" one?
>
> Ah now, according to the majority of Creationists there is only (ahem)
> one creation account, and what the unbeliever says is a separate
> account is actually a more detailed description of what happened. :)
>>
time.
Version I has animals than man and woman.
Version II has man, animals, and then woman.
The woman came as a result of the man not finding a suitable helpmeet among
the animals.
The only reply I've seen is one where it was explained to me Gen 1:27 So God
created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and
female created he them.
He ignored the "them" and explained that "male and female created he" meant
that man was a hermaphrodite to start with...
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Devils Advocaat
<mank...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>On 25 Sep, 01:42, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:22:44 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>>
>> <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > If one is to take the creation account as a literal truth,
>>
>> "The?" Which one is "the" one?
>
>Ah now, according to the majority of Creationists there is only (ahem)
>one creation account, and what the unbeliever says is a separate
>account is actually a more detailed description of what happened. :)
Yeah, and increasing the detail revises the order of events
within the account. I'm still waiting for an explanation of
how that works...
>> > and accepts
>> > that birds, beasts and creeping things were created to eat vegetation,
>> > answer the following questions:
>>
>> > 1) Why do predators, carrion eaters and parasites exist?
>>
>> > 2) Why do some animals possess venom?
>>
>> > 3) Why do some animals possess camouflage?
>>
>> > 4) And when did they become so?
>>
>> --http://desertphile.org
>> Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
>> "Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Nashton
Who knows. Not only is science an arcane subject for the Chris-loon, it
seems that his comprehension of simple words such as "ameliorate" poses
a great challenge.
Just curious Chris, are you going to answer Stephen's question or are
you going to run from the thread like the coward/woman abuser
supporter/liar that you are?
Stephen
NB: I don't think Nashton deserves to be criticized for his usage of
the word _ameliorate_, but there are other things about which he does
deserve criticism, such as being a real jerk, for which the above
quoted post is adequate evidence.
Regards,
Stephen
--
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by "Stephen"
<ssa...@austin.rr.com>:
It seems that the adage "Those who can't do, teach" need to
be modified:
"Those who can't do, teach. And those who can do neither
hurl epithets at those who can."
Devils Advocaat
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:42:47 +0000 (UTC), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by "Stephen"
Small wonder then that epithets are an endangered species. :P