Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Re: The Evil of a God of Hell Torments - 51
8 views
Skip to first unread message
Virgil
May 21, 2013, 10:09:46 PM5/21/13
to
In article <knh5qh$j2p$1...@dont-email.me>,
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
> saints
Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
anti-saint-like behavior.
--
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
> saints
Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
anti-saint-like behavior.
--
Wisely Non-Theist
May 22, 2013, 2:37:13 AM5/22/13
to
In article <knhcfq$bhf$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> Get a sheet of paper, draw a line down the middle, and on one side make
> a list of all the decent events you see happening in the world, and on
> the other side make a list of all the indecent events, and see which
> side gets full first.
The indecent events, by and large, are the ones being reported in
newspapers or news broadcasts.
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> Get a sheet of paper, draw a line down the middle, and on one side make
> a list of all the decent events you see happening in the world, and on
> the other side make a list of all the indecent events, and see which
> side gets full first.
The indecent events, by and large, are the ones being reported in
newspapers or news broadcasts.
James
May 22, 2013, 11:03:40 AM5/22/13
to
Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com>
Here is one for you. The good man Job wanted to go to HELL to get
RELIEF from his pain. Here is the Bible proof: Job 14:13,
"Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)
The "hell" in the Bible is the common grave of deceased mankind. Job
wanted to die to end his suffering.
You can rejoice, God is not a great Coloniel Sanders of the sky and
fries people to a crisp. Study the Bible for more proof.
James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org
RELIEF from his pain. Here is the Bible proof: Job 14:13,
"Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)
The "hell" in the Bible is the common grave of deceased mankind. Job
wanted to die to end his suffering.
You can rejoice, God is not a great Coloniel Sanders of the sky and
fries people to a crisp. Study the Bible for more proof.
James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org
Virgil
May 22, 2013, 2:13:56 PM5/22/13
to
In article <knilef$jb1$1...@dont-email.me>,
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> > So who, exactly, created Hell, and populated it with demons and
> > instruments of torture?
>
> The word "torture" implies undeserved treatment.
And since those who have never heard of your god must necessarily be
candidates for your mythical hell, it is an undeserved punishment.
--
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> > So who, exactly, created Hell, and populated it with demons and
> > instruments of torture?
>
> The word "torture" implies undeserved treatment.
And since those who have never heard of your god must necessarily be
candidates for your mythical hell, it is an undeserved punishment.
--
Andrew
May 22, 2013, 7:16:36 PM5/22/13
to
"James" wrote in message news:v7npp81seahuu396a...@4ax.com...
> Virgil wrote:
Romans 6:23
"Whosoever was not found written
in the book of life was cast into the
lake of fire..This is the second death.
Revealation 20:15,14
"The destruction of the transgressors and
of the sinners shall be together, and they that
forsake the LORD shall be consumed."
Isaiah 1:28
> Virgil wrote:
>> Calvin Ramsey wrote:
>>
>>> the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
>>> saints
>>
>>Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
>>anti-saint-like behavior.
>
>
> Here is one for you. The good man Job wanted to go to HELL to get
> RELIEF from his pain. Here is the Bible proof: Job 14:13,
>
> "Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
> and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
> remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)
>
> The "hell" in the Bible is the common grave of deceased mankind. Job
> wanted to die to end his suffering.
>
> You can rejoice, God is not a great Coloniel Sanders of the sky and
> fries people to a crisp. Study the Bible for more proof.
"The wages of sin is death." <Not a life in hell.
>>
>>> the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
>>> saints
>>
>>Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
>>anti-saint-like behavior.
>
>
> Here is one for you. The good man Job wanted to go to HELL to get
> RELIEF from his pain. Here is the Bible proof: Job 14:13,
>
> "Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
> and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
> remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)
>
> The "hell" in the Bible is the common grave of deceased mankind. Job
> wanted to die to end his suffering.
>
> You can rejoice, God is not a great Coloniel Sanders of the sky and
> fries people to a crisp. Study the Bible for more proof.
Romans 6:23
"Whosoever was not found written
in the book of life was cast into the
lake of fire..This is the second death.
Revealation 20:15,14
"The destruction of the transgressors and
of the sinners shall be together, and they that
forsake the LORD shall be consumed."
Isaiah 1:28
Wisely Non-Theist
May 22, 2013, 8:29:22 PM5/22/13
to
In article <knjgta$nqf$1...@dont-email.me>,
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> On 5/22/2013 12:18 PM, Tom McDonald wrote:
> > On 5/22/2013 9:52 AM, Calvin Ramsey wrote:
> >> But don't you think that is probably due to the overwhelming number
> >> of indecent events occurring? I mean there's only so much time and
> >> space they can use to report the news.
> >>
> >>
> > No one reports, "Dog bites man".
>
> Sure they do, in small towns and villages.
>
> But, I'm detecting a pattern here. You responded to my response to
> Wisely Non-Theist, and Wisely Non-Theist responded to my response to you.
>
> What's going on here? I'm guessing Wisely is the sockpuppet.
Guessing is the only thing that Calvin does here, and that guess is no
more wrong thatn his usual, that being totally!
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> On 5/22/2013 12:18 PM, Tom McDonald wrote:
> > On 5/22/2013 9:52 AM, Calvin Ramsey wrote:
> >> of indecent events occurring? I mean there's only so much time and
> >> space they can use to report the news.
> >>
> >>
> > No one reports, "Dog bites man".
>
> Sure they do, in small towns and villages.
>
> But, I'm detecting a pattern here. You responded to my response to
> Wisely Non-Theist, and Wisely Non-Theist responded to my response to you.
>
> What's going on here? I'm guessing Wisely is the sockpuppet.
Guessing is the only thing that Calvin does here, and that guess is no
more wrong thatn his usual, that being totally!
Wisely Non-Theist
May 22, 2013, 8:43:53 PM5/22/13
to
In article <knjn0q$pgv$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> Now all you have to do is reconcile your viewpoint with the numerous
> Bible verses that contradict it.
Since for every bible verse there seems to be another directly
contradicting it, we may as well dump the whole of it in the nearest
recycle bin. Think how many trees we could save!
Calvin Ramsey <calvin...@live.com> wrote:
> Now all you have to do is reconcile your viewpoint with the numerous
> Bible verses that contradict it.
Since for every bible verse there seems to be another directly
contradicting it, we may as well dump the whole of it in the nearest
recycle bin. Think how many trees we could save!
Olrik
May 22, 2013, 11:31:14 PM5/22/13
to
Le 2013-05-22 20:43, Wisely Non-Theist a �crit :
Maybe, but we still need toilet paper...
--
Olrik
aa #1981
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
--
Olrik
aa #1981
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
Jope
May 22, 2013, 11:56:00 PM5/22/13
to
On May 21, 10:09 pm, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> In article <knh5qh$j2...@dont-email.me>,
you away from the lake of fire.
The Bible is crystal clear about the final destination of the
unbelievers:
"But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVING, the vile, the murderers, the
sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all
liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This
is the second death.”
Revelation 21v8
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the
soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body
in hell."
Matthew 10v28
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be
tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Revelation 20v10
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"
Matthew 25v41
Why don't you consider your ways and repent while there is still
time.People have testified about life after death.But no one can
testify about non existence.
What information do you have.What evidence can you use to dismiss
their testimonies.
Why do you think that "flying blind" is so safe?
> In article <knh5qh$j2...@dont-email.me>,
> Calvin Ramsey <calvinram...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
> > saints
>
> Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
> anti-saint-like behavior.
> --
You cannot have a greater friend than the one who is trying to warn
>
> > the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
> > saints
>
> Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
> anti-saint-like behavior.
> --
you away from the lake of fire.
The Bible is crystal clear about the final destination of the
unbelievers:
"But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVING, the vile, the murderers, the
sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all
liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This
is the second death.”
Revelation 21v8
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the
soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body
in hell."
Matthew 10v28
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be
tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Revelation 20v10
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"
Matthew 25v41
Why don't you consider your ways and repent while there is still
time.People have testified about life after death.But no one can
testify about non existence.
What information do you have.What evidence can you use to dismiss
their testimonies.
Why do you think that "flying blind" is so safe?
casey
May 23, 2013, 1:00:04 AM5/23/13
to
Problem is you can't just believe something
out of fear.
August Rode
May 23, 2013, 8:47:48 AM5/23/13
to
On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:56:00 PM UTC-4, Jope wrote:
> On May 21, 10:09 pm, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> > In article <knh5qh$j2...@dont-email.me>,
> > Calvin Ramsey <calvinram...@live.com> wrote:
> >
> > > the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
> > > saints
> >
> > Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
> > anti-saint-like behavior.
>
> On May 21, 10:09 pm, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> > In article <knh5qh$j2...@dont-email.me>,
> > Calvin Ramsey <calvinram...@live.com> wrote:
> >
> > > the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
> > > saints
> >
> > Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
> > anti-saint-like behavior.
>
> You cannot have a greater friend than the one who is trying to warn
> you away from the lake of fire.
And no greater pest than one who tries to warn you away from a lake of fire that doesn't exist.
> you away from the lake of fire.
> Why don't you consider your ways and repent while there is still
> time.People have testified about life after death.
> But no one can
> testify about non existence.
> What information do you have.What evidence can you use to dismiss
> their testimonies.
> Why do you think that "flying blind" is so safe?
Jope
May 23, 2013, 1:27:53 PM5/23/13
to
of God.
Jesus testified about life after death.
The apostles testified about life after death.
God requires faith but you, require visible proof.
You are in a standoff with the Almighty.And he has the power to send
your soul into the lake of fire.
Jope
May 23, 2013, 1:52:59 PM5/23/13
to
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"
Proverbs 9v10
You also have the testimonies of the believers.
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have
seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—
this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we
have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal
life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim
to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have
fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his
Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete."
1 John 1v4
You do have a choice to make.Either believe that you are dealing with
a massive lie and face the consequences whatever they may be or
believe the witness testimonies and put your trust in an invisible
God.
No way out of that so called wager.
raven1
May 23, 2013, 2:33:46 PM5/23/13
to
On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jop...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>You do have a choice to make.Either believe that you are dealing with
>a massive lie and face the consequences whatever they may be or
>believe the witness testimonies and put your trust in an invisible
>God.
>No way out of that so called wager.
You (and Pascal) are making the rather large assumptions that:
1) You're choosing the correct God out of the thousands that humans
have claimed exist over the centuries - which (surprise!) just happens
to be the one you already believe in, and
2) He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
honest disbelief.
The first is wildly unlikely, statistically speaking, and when you
think about it, the second doesn't really indicate a God worthy of
being trusted, does it?
wrote:
>You do have a choice to make.Either believe that you are dealing with
>a massive lie and face the consequences whatever they may be or
>believe the witness testimonies and put your trust in an invisible
>God.
>No way out of that so called wager.
1) You're choosing the correct God out of the thousands that humans
have claimed exist over the centuries - which (surprise!) just happens
to be the one you already believe in, and
2) He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
honest disbelief.
The first is wildly unlikely, statistically speaking, and when you
think about it, the second doesn't really indicate a God worthy of
being trusted, does it?
Tom McDonald
May 23, 2013, 3:10:17 PM5/23/13
to
On 5/22/2013 10:56 PM, Jope wrote:
> On May 21, 10:09 pm, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
>> In article <knh5qh$j2...@dont-email.me>,
>> Calvin Ramsey <calvinram...@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>> the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
>>> saints
>>
>> Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
>> anti-saint-like behavior.
>> --
>
> You cannot have a greater friend than the one who is trying to warn
> you away from the lake of fire.
That's as may be, but it seems pretty clear here that Calvin, and the
> On May 21, 10:09 pm, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
>> In article <knh5qh$j2...@dont-email.me>,
>> Calvin Ramsey <calvinram...@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>> the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the
>>> saints
>>
>> Then those saints are glorying in the pain of others, which is very
>> anti-saint-like behavior.
>> --
>
> You cannot have a greater friend than the one who is trying to warn
> you away from the lake of fire.
Calvinists he believes in, believe that most folks are damned no matter
what they do. So it seems more gloating than helpful for Cal and his
like to post this stuff. Especially when he posts on an atheist newsgroup.
> The Bible is crystal clear about the final destination of the
> unbelievers:
>
>
> "But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVING, the vile, the murderers, the
> sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all
> is the second death.�
Jope
May 23, 2013, 3:28:49 PM5/23/13
to
On May 23, 2:33 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
The fact that there are many gods does not mean that there is no god
at all.
There is only one God.He is the creator of the universes
The divine requirement is ,that man must believe from his heart.
The purpose of this life is to select the children of God that must
inherit eternal life and be transformed into the
perfect image of God.For that cause ,tests and obstacles are set
before the path of mankind.
Among those:
You must believe in a God that you don't see.
You must decide among all religions ,which one is telling the truth.
You must live a moral life despite those natural propensities to self-
gratification.
You must keep the faith despite the trials and temptations of life.
Making the right choice can only come from within a sincere heart.
The overcomers will see God like he is and look exactly like him .And
they will never die.
>He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
>honest disbelief.
God will judge people based on their deeds and the contents of their
hearts while doing those deeds.Everything you do or think is in the
public domain,when it comes to the spiritual realm.Your deepest
thoughts and your most secret motives are plain before the eyes of
God.Nothing can be hidden from him.
The judgemnt of God will be in accordance with perfect justice.Any
reasonable person will approve the final sentence.
"But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in
heart shall follow it."
Psalm 94 v15
"He will judge the world in righteousness
and the peoples with equity."
Psalm 98v9
"He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he".
Deuteronomy 32v4
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
at all.
There is only one God.He is the creator of the universes
The divine requirement is ,that man must believe from his heart.
The purpose of this life is to select the children of God that must
inherit eternal life and be transformed into the
perfect image of God.For that cause ,tests and obstacles are set
before the path of mankind.
Among those:
You must believe in a God that you don't see.
You must decide among all religions ,which one is telling the truth.
You must live a moral life despite those natural propensities to self-
gratification.
You must keep the faith despite the trials and temptations of life.
Making the right choice can only come from within a sincere heart.
The overcomers will see God like he is and look exactly like him .And
they will never die.
>He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
>honest disbelief.
hearts while doing those deeds.Everything you do or think is in the
public domain,when it comes to the spiritual realm.Your deepest
thoughts and your most secret motives are plain before the eyes of
God.Nothing can be hidden from him.
The judgemnt of God will be in accordance with perfect justice.Any
reasonable person will approve the final sentence.
"But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in
heart shall follow it."
Psalm 94 v15
"He will judge the world in righteousness
and the peoples with equity."
Psalm 98v9
"He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he".
Deuteronomy 32v4
casey
May 23, 2013, 4:52:27 PM5/23/13
to
On 23 May, 10:52, Jope <jope...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 1:00 am, casey <jgkjca...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> [...]
> On May 23, 1:00 am, casey <jgkjca...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > Problem is you can't just believe something
> > out of fear.
>
> Why not?The purpose of fear is to keep you out of trouble.
The purpose of fear it to control other people which
> > out of fear.
>
> Why not?The purpose of fear is to keep you out of trouble.
is what the ancient priests wanted to do to give
themselves power and privilege.
> "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"
> Proverbs 9v10
which is nonsense. Wisdom does not come
from fear only obedience to the priests.
A good parent, leader or imaginary god does
not have to rule by fear that is how a tyrant
gains control.
raven1
May 24, 2013, 9:22:05 AM5/24/13
to
On Thu, 23 May 2013 12:28:49 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jop...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On May 23, 2:33�pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >You do have a choice to make.Either believe that you are dealing with
>> >a massive lie and face the consequences whatever they may be or
>> >believe the �witness testimonies and put your trust in an invisible
>> >God.
>> >No way out of that so called wager.
>>
>> You (and Pascal) are making the rather large assumptions that:
>>
>> 1) You're choosing the correct God out of the thousands that humans
>> have claimed exist over the centuries - which (surprise!) just happens
>> to be the one you already believe in, and
>>
>> 2) He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
>> honest disbelief.
>>
>> The first is wildly unlikely, statistically speaking, and when you
>> think about it, the second doesn't really indicate a God worthy of
>> being trusted, does it?
>
>The fact that there are many gods does not mean that there is no god
>at all.
Good grief! Could you have written anything more confused?
>There is only one God.
The author of Exodus certainly didn't seem to think so.
>He is the creator of the universes
>The divine requirement is ,that man must believe from his heart.
Thanks, but I believe in things (or not) from my brain, and if there
is a God, he knows that I am not capable of believing in it without
any evidence.
>The purpose of this life is to select the children of God that must
>inherit eternal life and be transformed into the
>perfect image of God.For that cause ,tests and obstacles are set
>before the path of mankind.
Interesting theology there. It's certainly not an orthodox one.
>Among those:
>You must believe in a God that you don't see.
Why? That's not faith, it's gullibility.
>You must decide among all religions ,which one is telling the truth.
What if none of them are?
>You must live a moral life
Why does anyone need a God for that? I don't live my life any
differently than I would if I believed in one.
>despite those natural propensities to self-
>gratification.
What's wrong with self-gratification if it harms no one?
>You must keep the faith despite the trials and temptations of life.
>Making the right choice can only come from within a sincere heart.
Why have faith in something for which there is no evidence? And the
whole "sincere heart" bit is meaningless piffle: I can assure you that
my non-belief is just as sincere as your belief.
>The overcomers will see God like he is and look exactly like him .
Back to the "interesting" theology, I see...
>And
>they will never die.
Except that they do. "All men are mortal" is not just the first
premise of a famous syllogism.
>>He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
>>honest disbelief.
>
>God will judge people based on their deeds and the contents of their
>hearts while doing those deeds.
Then why bother with Pascal's Wager in the first place? Just live a
good life, without worrying about whether there's no god, one, or
dozens.
>Everything you do or think is in the
>public domain,when it comes to the spiritual realm.Your deepest
>thoughts and your most secret motives are plain before the eyes of
>God.Nothing can be hidden from him.
Well, then, he knows I am not capable of believing he exists without
evidence.
>The judgemnt of God will be in accordance with perfect justice.Any
>reasonable person will approve the final sentence.
No reasonable person would approve of the notion of eternal punishment
for a sincerely held mistaken belief. Or, for that matter, for any
reason.
wrote:
>On May 23, 2:33�pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >You do have a choice to make.Either believe that you are dealing with
>> >a massive lie and face the consequences whatever they may be or
>> >believe the �witness testimonies and put your trust in an invisible
>> >God.
>> >No way out of that so called wager.
>>
>> You (and Pascal) are making the rather large assumptions that:
>>
>> 1) You're choosing the correct God out of the thousands that humans
>> have claimed exist over the centuries - which (surprise!) just happens
>> to be the one you already believe in, and
>>
>> 2) He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
>> honest disbelief.
>>
>> The first is wildly unlikely, statistically speaking, and when you
>> think about it, the second doesn't really indicate a God worthy of
>> being trusted, does it?
>
>The fact that there are many gods does not mean that there is no god
>at all.
>There is only one God.
The author of Exodus certainly didn't seem to think so.
>He is the creator of the universes
>The divine requirement is ,that man must believe from his heart.
is a God, he knows that I am not capable of believing in it without
any evidence.
>The purpose of this life is to select the children of God that must
>inherit eternal life and be transformed into the
>perfect image of God.For that cause ,tests and obstacles are set
>before the path of mankind.
>Among those:
>You must believe in a God that you don't see.
>You must decide among all religions ,which one is telling the truth.
>You must live a moral life
differently than I would if I believed in one.
>despite those natural propensities to self-
>gratification.
>You must keep the faith despite the trials and temptations of life.
>Making the right choice can only come from within a sincere heart.
whole "sincere heart" bit is meaningless piffle: I can assure you that
my non-belief is just as sincere as your belief.
>The overcomers will see God like he is and look exactly like him .
>And
>they will never die.
Except that they do. "All men are mortal" is not just the first
premise of a famous syllogism.
>>He will reward an insincere profession of faith while punishing
>>honest disbelief.
>
>God will judge people based on their deeds and the contents of their
>hearts while doing those deeds.
good life, without worrying about whether there's no god, one, or
dozens.
>Everything you do or think is in the
>public domain,when it comes to the spiritual realm.Your deepest
>thoughts and your most secret motives are plain before the eyes of
>God.Nothing can be hidden from him.
evidence.
>The judgemnt of God will be in accordance with perfect justice.Any
>reasonable person will approve the final sentence.
for a sincerely held mistaken belief. Or, for that matter, for any
reason.
Jope
May 25, 2013, 1:18:50 AM5/25/13
to
On May 24, 9:22 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 12:28:49 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
What do you know about theology?
Atheists should not try to get involved with theology.It's rather
uncanny.
They tend to behave like an elephant in a china shop.
Here is the text:
"For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God
to be revealed."
Romans 8v19
>Then why bother with Pascal's Wager in the first place? Just live a
>good life
Good deeds cannot save you.That is why Jesus died.The innocence of
Jesus is imputed to the believer.That is the only way to salvation.For
the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
For the atheists,his deeds will be used to determine the severity of
his final punishment.Because,there are different degrees of
punishment.
Everything you do or even think in this life is written in a book.In
the last day,you will be judged according to the contents of that
book.
For the christian ,his name is written in the book of
life,because ,the innocence of Jesus was imputed to him and his bad
deeds were forgiven.
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and
books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in
the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and
Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged
according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown
into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone
whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into
the lake of fire."
Revelation 20v12v15
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 12:28:49 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
Atheists should not try to get involved with theology.It's rather
uncanny.
They tend to behave like an elephant in a china shop.
Here is the text:
"For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God
to be revealed."
Romans 8v19
>Then why bother with Pascal's Wager in the first place? Just live a
>good life
Jesus is imputed to the believer.That is the only way to salvation.For
the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
For the atheists,his deeds will be used to determine the severity of
his final punishment.Because,there are different degrees of
punishment.
Everything you do or even think in this life is written in a book.In
the last day,you will be judged according to the contents of that
book.
For the christian ,his name is written in the book of
life,because ,the innocence of Jesus was imputed to him and his bad
deeds were forgiven.
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and
books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in
the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and
Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged
according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown
into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone
whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into
the lake of fire."
Revelation 20v12v15
August Rode
May 25, 2013, 8:12:20 AM5/25/13
to
On Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:18:50 AM UTC-4, Jope wrote:
> On May 24, 9:22 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
<snip>
> On May 24, 9:22 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> Atheists should not try to get involved with theology.It's rather
> uncanny.
> They tend to behave like an elephant in a china shop.
<snip>
raven1
May 25, 2013, 11:22:20 AM5/25/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 22:18:50 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jop...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Quite a bit, thanks. Why do you ask?
>Atheists should not try to get involved with theology.It's rather
>uncanny.
>They tend to behave like an elephant in a china shop.
>Here is the text:
>"For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God
>to be revealed."
>Romans 8v19
What on Earth is your point in presenting this out-of-context verse?
>>Then why bother with Pascal's Wager in the first place? Just live a
>>good life
>Good deeds cannot save you.
Then why did you write that "God will judge people based on their
deeds and the contents of their hearts while doing those deeds"?
Moreover, why did Jesus tell his disciples in Matthew that the Son of
Man would judge all according to their works?
>That is why Jesus died.The innocence of
>Jesus is imputed to the believer.That is the only way to salvation.For
>the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
>For the atheists,his deeds will be used to determine the severity of
>his final punishment.
What if the deeds of the atheist surpass those of the Christian? Jesus
also told his disciples that many of those judged and found wanting
will be among those who claimed to be his followers.
>Because,there are different degrees of
>punishment.
>Everything you do or even think in this life is written in a book.In
>the last day,you will be judged according to the contents of that
>book.
>For the christian ,his name is written in the book of
>life,because ,the innocence of Jesus was imputed to him and his bad
>deeds were forgiven.
>
>
>"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and
>books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
>The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in
>the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and
>Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged
>according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown
>into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone
>whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into
>the lake of fire."
>Revelation 20v12v15
That quote doesn't support your position, it supports mine.
---
raven1
aa # 1096
EAC Vice President (President in charge of vice)
BAAWA Knight
wrote:
>Atheists should not try to get involved with theology.It's rather
>uncanny.
>They tend to behave like an elephant in a china shop.
>Here is the text:
>"For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God
>to be revealed."
>Romans 8v19
>>Then why bother with Pascal's Wager in the first place? Just live a
>>good life
>Good deeds cannot save you.
deeds and the contents of their hearts while doing those deeds"?
Moreover, why did Jesus tell his disciples in Matthew that the Son of
Man would judge all according to their works?
>That is why Jesus died.The innocence of
>Jesus is imputed to the believer.That is the only way to salvation.For
>the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
>For the atheists,his deeds will be used to determine the severity of
>his final punishment.
also told his disciples that many of those judged and found wanting
will be among those who claimed to be his followers.
>Because,there are different degrees of
>punishment.
>Everything you do or even think in this life is written in a book.In
>the last day,you will be judged according to the contents of that
>book.
>For the christian ,his name is written in the book of
>life,because ,the innocence of Jesus was imputed to him and his bad
>deeds were forgiven.
>
>
>"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and
>books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
>The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in
>the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and
>Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged
>according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown
>into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone
>whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into
>the lake of fire."
>Revelation 20v12v15
---
raven1
aa # 1096
EAC Vice President (President in charge of vice)
BAAWA Knight
Jope
May 25, 2013, 1:20:25 PM5/25/13
to
On May 25, 11:22 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 22:18:50 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
You should take the time to read my post before attempting a reply.
You are asking a question that I specifically answered.Let me repost
it:
Good deeds cannot save you.That is why Jesus died.The innocence of
Jesus is imputed( conferred)to the believer.That is the only way to
his final punishment.
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 22:18:50 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jope...@gmail.com>
You are asking a question that I specifically answered.Let me repost
it:
Good deeds cannot save you.That is why Jesus died.The innocence of
Jesus is imputed( conferred)to the believer.That is the only way to
salvation.For
the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
For the atheist,his deeds will be used to determine the severity of
the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
his final punishment.
Jope
May 25, 2013, 1:34:41 PM5/25/13
to
>What on Earth is your point in presenting this out-of-context verse?
You said that my theology was not orthodox.And yet, you are unable to
keep tract of your own comment.
Having a discussion with atheists sometimes feels like to trying to
fill a straw basket with water.
raven1
May 28, 2013, 8:19:55 AM5/28/13
to
On Sat, 25 May 2013 10:20:25 -0700 (PDT), Jope <jop...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I did. You clearly didn't go and do likewise.
>You are asking a question that I specifically answered.
I asked a great many questions, most of which went unanswered, and the
answers you did give do not comport with what scripture actually says.
>Let me repost
>it:
>Good deeds cannot save you.That is why Jesus died.The innocence of
>Jesus is imputed( conferred)to the believer.That is the only way to
>salvation.For
>the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
>For the atheist,his deeds will be used to determine the severity of
>his final punishment.
Your repeating this assertion will not make it agree with what Jesus
actually taught. Go back and re-read the Gospel of Matthew. Pay
particular attention to chapter 25.
wrote:
>You are asking a question that I specifically answered.
answers you did give do not comport with what scripture actually says.
>Let me repost
>it:
>Good deeds cannot save you.That is why Jesus died.The innocence of
>Jesus is imputed( conferred)to the believer.That is the only way to
>salvation.For
>the christian ,good deeds will bring rewards after the resurrection.
>For the atheist,his deeds will be used to determine the severity of
>his final punishment.
actually taught. Go back and re-read the Gospel of Matthew. Pay
particular attention to chapter 25.
0 new messages