BIBLICAL EVIDENCES OF SCIENCE
The Church of The Painful Truth
What is now known by science today was always known by the creator. He
revealed some his knowledge to us through the Bible.
1 Chronicles 16:8-9 " Oh, give thanks to the LORD! Call upon His name; make
known His deeds among the peoples! Sing to Him, sing psalms to Him; talk of
all His wondrous works!
Today Science tells us the speed of light is decaying, the magnetic field
is collapsing, the earth is slowly beginning to wobble on its axis, the
protective ozone layer is thinning. In Psalm 102:25-26 -- God predicted the
earth would wear out. These were unknown until the last century.
Science is only beginning to catch up on what God had man record in the
Bible from ancient times. The Bible never claims to be a text book on
science but when it does speak on nature or physics it is absolutely
accurate. God speaking to Abraham who is the one he would begin to give his
teachings to Gen. 13:16 "And I will make your descendants as the dust of the
earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your
descendants also could be numbered." Genesis 15:5 says the stars cannot be
numbered by man. Jeremiah 33:32 explains the stars are beyond numbering.
Before the telescope was invented, man was able to number the stars.
Hipparchus said in 150 B.C. there are exactly 1,026 stars. 150 years later a
Roman named Ptolemy said there are 1,056, Kepler counted 1,006. Since
Galileo invented the telescope in 1608, we continued to discover more stars.
Up until the last few hundred years until the discovery of the telescope
there were only 6,000 stars seen by the naked eye. A modern telescope of 200
inches estimates 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. And there are not
millions but billions of such galaxies. The Biblical scientific insights
were far in advance of four modern day science. Today, with our technology
and high powered telescopes in space and astronomers estimate that there
are 100 billion stars in our galaxy with an additional 20-100 billion
galaxies in the universe! Henry Morris says there are at least 10 million,
billion, billion stars! See Gen.15:5, Job 22:12; Isaiah 55:9; 1 Corinthians
15:41 and 2 Peter 3:10.
Gen. 15:5 "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to
number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." Now we
know there are at least 1 hundred million, billion, billion. This would be
like your counting 10 numbers per second. It would then take you a thousand,
million, billion years. God's point is that we can't count with the naked
eye that high.
Gen. 22:17 " I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and
as the sand which is on the seashore; Another example of the amount of stars
that cannot be counted.
Isaiah 40:22 tells us the earth is not flat but a round sphere. The prophet
states God "sits above the circle on the face of the earth." The word for
circle in Hebrew, is translated sphere or roundness. The Bible had refuted
the flat earth theory long before scientists actually disproved it. The
atmosphere is a terrestrial blanket making the earth inhabitable --
retaining heat, spreading light, providing air.(Job.26:10) Only someone who
could see it from off the planet would be able to know this.
As Job went though his physical trial he was also having a spiritual one.
God beagn to enter into conversation with him "Listen to this, O Job; stand
still and consider the wondrous works of God" (Job 37:14)
Job 22:14 says the earth is round. "And He walks above the circle of
heaven."
the word meaning circle, circuit, compass that is our atmosphere around the
earth.
For centuries, man believed that the earth was flat. Christopher Columbus
was criticized for setting sail to the other side of the earth, they
expected Columbus to sail off the edge of the earth. Columbus had received
his insight that motivated him from the Bible. When people thought it was
flat God told us it was round. If they only read the Bible they wouldn't
have been afraid to fall off.
Job 26:7 says the earth is suspended on nothing. Early man thought Atlas, a
huge turtle or elephants held up the earth. In the North sky within the
millions of stars is a vast expanse of blackness. The Bible was before the
telescope so only God could describe it. Today we know it is gravity that
holds the planets and stars in their orbits making them appears to be hung
on nothing.
Job 28:25 says air has weight. Science confirms air is about 50 miles thick,
exactly the right composition to support life. It's perfect for our lungs.
The air filters deadly rays. If the earth was 10% larger or smaller all
would die. We are in a fragile balance before the sun between frying and
freezing.
Job 36:27-28; Ecclesiastes 1:6-7; Isaiah 40:12 and 55:10 explains the
hydrological cycle. The condensation and hydrology maintain life, provide
evaporation, transportation, precipitation and run-off . This describe the
repeated cycle of precipitation, its evaporation, and condensation in the
clouds. Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 1:6, "The wind blows to the south and
goes round to the north; round and round goes the wind, and on its circuits
with wind returns." This was unknown to man, today science has documented
the direction of wind currents and wind paths.
Job 38:12,17 and Luke 17 show the earth rotates. Ancient science taught a
geocentric view of the universe. The change of night and day were thought to
be caused by the sun revolving around the earth. We know today that it is
the earth's rotation on its axis that gives us the affect of the sun's
rising and setting. Job about 4,000 years ago, wrote Job 38:12 "Have you
commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its
place,
v.14 " It takes on form like clay under a seal" Job paints the picture here
is of clay being turned or rotated on the potter's wheel.
Job 38:16 tells us there are springs in the sea (this was not known until
1913 when they found underground rivers) Solomon mentions about the movement
of water in Eccl.1:7 "All streams run to the sea, but the sea is not full;
to the place where the streams flow, there they flow again." Matthew Maury
who lived in the middle 1800's had a career with the U.S. Navy. He was the
founder of modern oceanography and hydrography. Maury was inspired by Psalm
8:8, dedicated his life to find and document these paths God had mentioned
in Scripture. "whatever passes along the paths of the sea." These paths
were unknown before charted the winds and currents of the Atlantic. Maury
draw accurate maps of ocean currents that are still used today.
Job 38:22 mentions the treasures of the snow. Each flake is of perfect
dimensions and all are different. The snow is beneficial for nitrogen for
fertilizer.
Water is heavier than air, and is transported in clouds. Some see this
process suggested as Godcontinued in his conversation with Job "Dost thou
know the balancing of the clouds, the wondrous works of Him who is perfect
in knowledge?" (Job 37:16).
In Job 36:27 and 28 is the statement, He draws up the drops' of water, which
distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour Down their moisture and
abundant showers fall on mankind." Here we find an accurate description of
the earth's hydrologic, cycle. Even during the Middle Ages, the source of
rain water was something of a mystery. But in approximately 2,000 B.C. we
find job accurately describing the rain cycle.
Job 38:30 describes ice. Frozen water expands and rises. To sink would kill
water life.
Job 38:31 explains the solar system. The Hebrew speaks of a pivot or hinge.
In the South-Southwest is the Pleiades, 7 stars making up the center of the
solar system. Amos 5:8 states the Pleiades consists of 7 stars but it was
only discovered in this last century because with the naked eye one can see
only 6.
Job 40:15-24 speaks of the Bohemoth and Leviathan, are what we would know as
dinosaurs at the living in the same time as man.
Psalm 8:8 mentions the paths of the sea. We read about "the birds of the
air, and the fish of' the sea, all that swim the paths of the sea.-,." But
it wasn't until the mid nineteenth century when Matthew Fontaine Maury, the
"father of oceanography," published his discovery that the ocean possesses
predictable paths or currents. When Psalm 8 was written, the only seas known
to the Hebrews were the Dead Sea, the Sea of Galilee, the Mediterranean, and
the Red Sea.' These bodies of water did not possess "paths" or significant
observable currents. It took Matthew Maury a great deal of time to collect
the crude observational data that existed from the fifteenth to the
nineteenth century to make his own discovery. And yet the Psalmist wrote of
"the paths of the seas."
Psalm 102:25,26 reveals the earth is wearing down, the magnetic field is
collapsing the earth is slowly beginning to wobble on its axis, the
protective ozone layer is thinning, the 2nd law of thermodynamics proves
everything is wearing down.
Psalm 139:13-16 poetically describes the value of the DNA molecule in the
formation of the unborn child.
Proverbs 8:26 explains the dust particles and the air which makes light.
Proverbs 16:24 and 17:22 explains psychotherapy.
In recent history science taught that most clouds are formed by evaporation
of water from the ocean, but the Bible rcorded this centuries ago. We read
in Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north;
round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into
the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from,
there they return again. Here King Solomon, writing 3,000 years ago explains
how the oceans are the origin of rain. tells us the wind has currents.
Meteorology or the circulation of winds move by fixed laws, speaks of global
wind currents and the earth's water cycle. "The phrase, 'the wind blows to
the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on
its course' is an accurate and astonishing description of the circular flow
of air around the earth, called the 'jet stream,' well known to anyone who
watches the evening news weather reports"( also in Isaiah 40:12.) This is
only a recent understanding of scientists. Is Scripture human supposition or
divine revelation?
Daniel 12:4 told us knowledge would increase. Only in the last 100 YEARS of
time have we developed the common match, ink pen or safety pin. From candles
to lanterns to light bulbs. The last period of time (a little over 100
years) has brought us from the ox cart of the old west like the olden times
of Egypt to modern planes and spacecraft. Today knowledge doubles every two
weeks.
Rom.1:20 explains Atoms. Tells us that things seen are made from the
invisible things.
Heb.11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed (made to fit put
in order) by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not
made of things which are visible.
The things which are seen are made of things not seen. This was not known
until modern science discovered the invisible atoms. Invisible to the eye
microscopic structures, The Encyclopedia describes it as a unit of matter,
the smallest unit of an element, having all the characteristics of that
element and consisting of a dense, central, positively charged nucleus
surrounded by a system of electrons. The entire structure has an approximate
diameter of 10-8 centimeter and characteristically remains undivided in
chemical reactions except for limited removal, transfer, or exchange of
certain electrons. Atoms cannot be seen using optical microscopes, they are
much smaller than the wavelengths of visible light. Seen by imaging
techniques such as electron microscopes, scanning tunneling microscopes, and
atomic force microscopes,
Joseph John Thomson in 1897 to involve a stream of negatively charged
particles with individual masses much smaller than that of any atom. These
particles were called electrons, and they were soon recognized to be a
constituent of all atoms. That is, atoms are not indivisible but contain
parts.
In other sciences we find similar scientific prevision. In medicine, God had
directed Abraham to circumcise newborn males specifically on the eighth day
(Genesis 17:12). It wasn't until the twentieth century we discovered that
only after eight days of life does vitamin K in the infant's diet permit
prothrombin, an important blood clotting factor, to reach its peak. To
circumcise on an earlier day, when the clotting mechanism is immature, could
result in excessive bleeding. Further, there are many other cultures that
circumcise their males on the first, fourth, sixth, seventh, or twentieth
days of life. If the Jews had discovered the eighth day merely by trial and
error, why didn't other cultures do so? Clearly Jewish practice was based on
obedience to divine revelation. Deut.23:12-14, Lev. 17:11, and many other
Scriptures reflect hygienic or medical knowledge far in advance of its time.
The life is in the blood.
Leviticus 17:11 shows us the life of flesh is in the blood. Something only
recently discovered by science. There are 75,000 miles of veins and arteries
in the body to carry the blood.
Many of the great scientific discoveries were inspired through the Word of
God. As men who trusted God as the creator discovered an intelligent
designer for the universe and pursued what he inspired others to write
thousands of years before.
While the Bible is not written as a science textbook when it speaks on
nature and science it is accurate. Only the creator could communicate this.
A good portion of our modern science was founded by creationists.
Francis and Roger Bacon.
Galileo=Heliocentricity
Sir Issac Newton= Calculas and gravity, particle theory of light
Joseph Lister= Antiseptic surgery
Matthew Maury- Discovery of oceanography from Psalms 8:8
Louis Pastuer = sterilization, bacteriology he is one of the greatest
biologists.
Johann Kepler =celestial mechanics astronomy
Robert Boyle= founder of chemistry ( a Christian ).
William Harvey= circulation of the blood.
Modern discoveries by Christians= Michael faraday -made the generator and
electro magnetic induction
Samuel Morris made the telegraph and his first words Numbers 23:23 "what God
has wrought."
James Simpson was the founder of ginecology founded chloroform on Adams deep
sleep (he said his greatest discovery was that he had a savior.)
Charles Barage= Computer, speedometer, opthamaloscope ( a Christian)
Carolus Lineaus= Gave us the family of species the Genesis kind (believer in
the Bible) Taxonomy.
Nicolas Steno= Father of the science of stratography
bob young
Thore Schmechtig
> states God "sits above the circle on the face of the earth." The word for
> circle in Hebrew, is translated sphere or roundness. The Bible had refuted
> the flat earth theory long before scientists actually disproved it.
Those four corners of the earth... those pillars who support earth and
heaven... don't really fit into the weak theory of a scientific babble.
;)
--
UNWRITTEN RULES OF (PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALISM
(Found in alt.bible, authors unknown)
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
4a. Specific example for 4.: Cry for "freedom of religion", but whenever followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream "Persecution!"
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than be honest and admit the obvious
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to God himself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will for
the betterment of mankind.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you don't
have that right anyhow.
Bobby D. Bryant
> BIBLICAL EVIDENCES OF SCIENCE
>
> What is now known by science today was always known by the creator. He
> revealed some his knowledge to us through the Bible. 1 Chronicles 16:8-9
> " Oh, give thanks to the LORD! Call upon His name; make known His deeds
> among the peoples! Sing to Him, sing psalms to Him; talk of all His
> wondrous works!
>
> Today Science tells us the speed of light is decaying,
Does not.
> the magnetic field is collapsing,
Does not.
> the earth is slowly beginning to wobble on its axis, the protective
> ozone layer is thinning. In Psalm 102:25-26 -- God predicted the earth
> would wear out.
None of these are signs of the earth wearing out. The ones that are
actually happening are just changes, and relatively small changes compared
to what the earth has experienced in the past.
> These were unknown until the last century.
Guess when the ozone hole was created.
> Science is only beginning to catch up on what God had man record in the
> Bible from ancient times. The Bible never claims to be a text book on
> science
And rightly so.
> but when it does speak on nature or physics it is absolutely accurate.
Read the second half of Genesis XXX lately?
> God speaking to Abraham who is the one he would begin to give his
> teachings to Gen. 13:16 "And I will make your descendants as the dust of
> the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then
> your descendants also could be numbered."
If you intend that to be taken literally, it is simply wrong.
> Genesis 15:5 says the stars cannot be numbered by man. Jeremiah 33:32
> explains the stars are beyond numbering. Before the telescope was
> invented, man was able to number the stars. Hipparchus said in 150 B.C.
> there are exactly 1,026 stars. 150 years later a Roman named Ptolemy
> said there are 1,056, Kepler counted 1,006. Since Galileo invented the
> telescope in 1608, we continued to discover more stars. Up until the
> last few hundred years until the discovery of the telescope there were
> only 6,000 stars seen by the naked eye. A modern telescope of 200 inches
> estimates 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. And there are not
> millions but billions of such galaxies. The Biblical scientific insights
> were far in advance of four modern day science. Today, with our
> technology and high powered telescopes in space and astronomers
> estimate that there are 100 billion stars in our galaxy with an
> additional 20-100 billion galaxies in the universe!
Which is hardly "beyond numbering".
> Henry Morris says there are at least 10 million, billion, billion stars!
> See Gen.15:5, Job 22:12; Isaiah 55:9; 1 Corinthians 15:41 and 2 Peter
> 3:10.
And Morris doesn't have any astronomical support for that claim.
> Gen. 15:5 "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able
> to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." Now
> we know there are at least 1 hundred million, billion, billion. This
> would be like your counting 10 numbers per second. It would then take
> you a thousand, million, billion years.
Why are you focused on counting speed instead of dealing with the glaring
error in the number of descendents?
> God's point is that we can't count with the naked eye that high.
I didn't see his mention of the naked eye. (And if you do limit it to the
naked eye, you're going to have to explain a big surplus in Children of
Abraham.)
> Gen. 22:17 " I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven
> and as the sand which is on the seashore; Another example of the amount
> of stars that cannot be counted.
See above.
> Isaiah 40:22 tells us the earth is not flat but a round sphere. The
> prophet states God "sits above the circle on the face of the earth." The
> word for circle in Hebrew, is translated sphere or roundness.
Funny, the bible you cite translated it as "circle".
> The Bible had refuted the flat earth theory long before scientists
> actually disproved it.
I guess that's why everyone who ever read the bible knew it.
> The atmosphere is a terrestrial blanket making the earth inhabitable --
> retaining heat, spreading light, providing air.(Job.26:10) Only someone
> who could see it from off the planet would be able to know this.
Funny, scientists figured that out long before we had a space program.
> As Job went though his physical trial he was also having a spiritual
> one.
Job is probably the *last* topic you should bring up.
> God beagn to enter into conversation with him "Listen to this, O Job;
> stand still and consider the wondrous works of God" (Job 37:14)
>
> Job 22:14 says the earth is round. "And He walks above the circle of
> heaven." the word meaning circle, circuit, compass that is our
> atmosphere around the earth.
Why doesn't it say so? How many times is the atmosphere mentioned in the
bible?
> For centuries, man believed that the earth was flat. Christopher
> Columbus was criticized for setting sail to the other side of the earth,
> they expected Columbus to sail off the edge of the earth.
Actually, the Portuguese wouldn't fund him because they knew how big the
world was, and knew he'd starve before he reached India. By luck, he
stumbled on a continent they didn't know about.
> Columbus had received his insight that motivated him from the Bible.
What's your source on *that* fantasy?
> When people thought it was flat God told us it was round. If they only
> read the Bible they wouldn't have been afraid to fall off.
There's no useful information about the topology of our planet in the
bible.
> Job 26:7 says the earth is suspended on nothing. Early man thought
> Atlas, a huge turtle or elephants held up the earth. In the North sky
> within the millions of stars is a vast expanse of blackness.
Could you give us the coordinates on that? The universe seems to be
isotropic on the large scale.
Also, aren't you forgetting the part about that's where God lives?
> The Bible was before the telescope so only God could describe it. Today
> we know it is gravity that holds the planets and stars in their orbits
> making them appears to be hung on nothing.
The bible doesn't say anything about gravity, let alone orbits. Indeed,
the story about the sun standing still indicates that the writers had no
clue about celestial mechanics.
> Job 28:25 says air has weight. Science confirms air is about 50 miles
> thick, exactly the right composition to support life.
Because that's the environment we evolved to.
> It's perfect for our lungs. The air filters deadly rays.
Else terrestrial creatures would not have evolve. (Or at least none so
frail to deadly rays.)
> If the earth was 10% larger or smaller all would die.
No, we would have evolved differently.
> We are in a fragile balance before the sun between frying and freezing.
Approximately 100% of the universe is uninhabitable to life as we know it.
> Job 36:27-28; Ecclesiastes 1:6-7; Isaiah 40:12 and 55:10 explains the
> hydrological cycle.
Surely people noticed evaporation, clouds, wind, and precipitation long
before the bible was written.
> The condensation and hydrology maintain life, provide evaporation,
> transportation, precipitation and run-off . This describe the repeated
> cycle of precipitation, its evaporation, and condensation in the clouds.
> Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 1:6, "The wind blows to the south and goes
> round to the north; round and round goes the wind, and on its circuits
> with wind returns." This was unknown to man,
Surely you jest?
> today science has documented the direction of wind currents and wind
> paths.
And it doesn't all blow in a big circle through Judea, either.
> Job 38:12,17 and Luke 17 show the earth rotates.
Job doesn't. I can't say about "Luke 17".
> Ancient science taught a geocentric view of the universe.
Science is a modern invention.
> The change of night and day were thought to be caused by the sun
> revolving around the earth. We know today that it is the earth's
> rotation on its axis that gives us the affect of the sun's rising and
> setting. Job about 4,000 years ago, wrote Job 38:12 "Have you
> commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know
> its place,
Nothing about rotation there.
> v.14 " It takes on form like clay under a seal" Job paints the picture
> here is of clay being turned or rotated on the potter's wheel.
No, the author is invoking the metaphor of pressing a seal into soft clay,
apparently referring to the resulting pattern of light and dark (though to
be honest, 12-15 don't make a heck of a lot of sense to begin with).
> Job 38:16 tells us there are springs in the sea (this was not known
> until 1913 when they found underground rivers) Solomon mentions about
> the movement of water in Eccl.1:7 "All streams run to the sea, but the
> sea is not full; to the place where the streams flow, there they flow
> again." Matthew Maury who lived in the middle 1800's had a career with
> the U.S. Navy. He was the founder of modern oceanography and
> hydrography. Maury was inspired by Psalm 8:8, dedicated his life to find
> and document these paths God had mentioned in Scripture. "whatever
> passes along the paths of the sea." These paths were unknown before
> charted the winds and currents of the Atlantic. Maury draw accurate maps
> of ocean currents that are still used today.
In context, the psalm doesn't appear to refer to ocean currents.
> Job 38:22 mentions the treasures of the snow.
My translation gives "storehouses", suggesting that you've chosen the
wrong meaning of "treasures".
> Each flake is of perfect dimensions
Not.
> and all are different. The snow is beneficial for nitrogen for fertilizer.
It also melts in to cool, clear water, which fact must have been known for
many millennia before the bible was written.
You're grasping at straws...
> Water is heavier than air, and is transported in clouds. Some see this
> process suggested as Godcontinued in his conversation with Job "Dost
> thou know the balancing of the clouds, the wondrous works of Him who is
> perfect in knowledge?" (Job 37:16).
Yeah, and some see a face on Mars.
<snip rest due to boredom... someone else can finish>
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
Thomas P.
<WRITETO...@carcosa.de> wrote:
>> Isaiah 40:22 tells us the earth is not flat but a round sphere. The prophet
>> states God "sits above the circle on the face of the earth." The word for
>> circle in Hebrew, is translated sphere or roundness. The Bible had refuted
>> the flat earth theory long before scientists actually disproved it.
>
>Those four corners of the earth... those pillars who support earth and
>heaven... don't really fit into the weak theory of a scientific babble.
>;)
In addition I wonder where "above" is when talking about a spherical
Earth.
Did Hebrew children play games in which they threw circles at each
other?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
John Wilkins
I am using some secondary sources, they list the originals when quoted.
bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> For your entertainment - the usual 'scrapings from the bottom of the barrel'!
I am not responding below to you, but to Painful.
>
> The Church of The Painful Truth wrote:
>
...> >
> > While the Bible is not written as a science textbook when it speaks on
> > nature and science it is accurate. Only the creator could communicate this.
> > A good portion of our modern science was founded by creationists.
> >
> > Francis and Roger Bacon.
"But that which marked [Roger] Bacon out from among other philosophers
of his time -- indeed the whole of the European Middle Ages-- was his
clear understanding that experimental methods alone give certainty in
science. This was a revolutionary change in mental attitude... Bacon
read all the authors he could reach ... but instead of accepting the
facts and inferences of natural knowledge from Scripture, the Fathers,
the Arabians, or Aristotle, Bacon told the world that the only way to
verify their statements was to observe and experiment." Dampier p 99
"Neither is it to be forgotten that in every age natural philosophy has
had a troublesome time and hard to deal with adversary--namely,
superstition, and the blind and immoderate zeal of religion. ... Nor was
much forebearance shown by some of the ancient fathers of the Christian
church to those who on most convincing grounds (such as no one in his
senses would now think of contradicting) maintained that the earth was
round..." Francis Bacon, _The New Organon_, LXXXIX
> >
> > Galileo=Heliocentricity
"When we examine the philosophic ideas which in Galileo's mind underlay
his scientific work, we can trace his affinities with Kepler on the one
side and with Newton on the other. Like Kepler, he looked for
mathematical relations in phenomena, not however in a search for
mystical causes, but in order to understand the immutable laws in
conformity with which nature works, caring nothing "whether her reasons
be or be not understandable by man".
"Here we see how far Galileo had travelled from the homocentric
philosophy of Scholasticism, in which the whole of nature is made for
man. To Galileo, on the other hand, it appears that God thinks into
nature this rigorous mathematical necessity, and then through nature so
makes "the human understanding that it, though at the price of great
exertion, might ferret out a few of her secrets"." Dampier p145.
> >
> > Sir Issac Newton= Calculas and gravity, particle theory of light
Rule I, Book II, _Principia Mathematica_:
"We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both
true and sufficient to explain their appearances."
Rule IV
"In experimental philosophy we are to look upon propositions collected
by general induction from phaenomena as accurately or very nearly true,
notwithstanding any contrary hypotheses that may be imagined, till such
time as other phaenomena occur, by which they may either be made more
accurate, or liable to exceptions."
No modern creationist he. However, he did think the solar system was
created as seen (General Scholium Book III) by God, although so far as I
can tell there is not a single Biblical citation, reference or passage
adduced in argument (and the only refs I can see on a skim through are
in the notes to that Scholium). He also was an astrologer.
> >
> > Joseph Lister= Antiseptic surgery
"[Pasteur] had certainly adhered to the idea of the constancy of species
in the micro-organisms, but other investigators of the highest
reputation had maintained in contrast thereto the "pleomorphism" of
these beings -- that one form could pass unrestrictedly into others of
an entirely different nature; this had been the view of LISTER, the
famous inventor of the antiseptic bandage...", Nordenskiöld, p547
> >
> > Matthew Maury- Discovery of oceanography from Psalms 8:8
No idea. Seriously doubt it.
> >
> > Louis Pastuer = sterilization, bacteriology he is one of the greatest
> > biologists.
Not a creationist - I documented this in my Spontaneous Generation FAQ.
In fact later in life he expressed acceptance of evolutionary theory and
geology.
> >
> > Johann Kepler =celestial mechanics astronomy
"Kepler's official occupation consisted chiefly in editing the
astrological almanacs which were then in favour, and despite his
ironical remarks on the value to an astronomer of a lucrative
profession, he was a believer in astrology. ...
"Kepler was convinced that God created the world in accordance with the
principle of perfect numbers ... This was the true inspiring force in
Kepler's laborious life. He was not, as usually represented, tediously
searching for empirical rules to be rationalized by a coming Newton. He
was searching for ultimate causes, the mathematical harmonies in the
mind of the Creator." Dampier 140.
I'll grant you Kepler, except that he was a *Platonist*, which if you
understood it, you might not like. So far, though, astrology seems to
have had a much more significant role in the development of science,
doesn't it?
> >
> > Robert Boyle= founder of chemistry ( a Christian ).
Saying someone in the 17th century England was a Christian is like
saying they had red blood cells. Boyle was a Christian, yes. He also
thought that we might be able to understand some of the universe by
ourselves, and noted that the Christian religion implied we might not:
"And if it be a necessary imperfection of human nature that, while we
remain in this mortal condition, the soul, being confined to the dark
prison of the body, is capable ... but of a dim knowledge; so much the
greater value we ought to have for Christian religion, since by its
means ... our faculties will be elevated and enlarged." [quoted in
Burtt, 179]
In short, one implication here is that revelation is not science, and
science is limited in what it can tell us.
> >
> > William Harvey= circulation of the blood.
According to Nordenskiöld, Singer and Magner, Harvey's insipriation for
his work came from the pre-Christian Greeks Galen and Aristotle.
> >
> > Modern discoveries by Christians= Michael faraday -made the generator and
> > electro magnetic induction
I have no reference that mentions Faraday's religious beliefs or th
einfluence they had on his science, if any. Given your batting average
(or rather those of your plagiarised sources, the onus is on you (or
they) to show this.
> >
> > Samuel Morris made the telegraph and his first words Numbers 23:23 "what God
> > has wrought."
Does this mean if I quote a biblical text, *I* am a Christian and my
work depends on creationist beliefs?
> >
> > James Simpson was the founder of ginecology founded chloroform on Adams deep
> > sleep (he said his greatest discovery was that he had a savior.)
"If in the slow ascent of organic life, we find it difficult to set our
finger upon the precise point when the manlike ape passed over into the
ape-like man; ... non the less the fact of it becomes, every decade,
more assuredly one of the corner-stones of the scientific construction
of the world." James Y Simpson, p3.
> >
> > Charles Barage= Computer, speedometer, opthamaloscope ( a Christian)
Babbage. I don't have data on him, apart from this
> >
> > Carolus Lineaus= Gave us the family of species the Genesis kind
> > (believer in the Bible) Taxonomy.
He did not found either genus or species on biblical kinds, he took them
from medieval logic, based on Aristotle's Categories. He *defined* the
term species with descent from created kinds, but the idea, and all his
taxonomy, was a reworking of that logic, derived as it turns out, from
Porphyry, the [pagan] neo-Platonist of the 4thC CE.
Moreover, he allowed that novel species could be formed naturally (by
hybridisation) in the 12th edition of the Systema Naturae. The best
single ref for this is Stafleu.
> >
> > Nicolas Steno= Father of the science of stratography
Cutler's book relates how Steno used his reason and empirical
observations to recover the past using what we now think of as
uniformitarian principles, not unlike those of Newton. He comments: "in
his little book [_De solido_], Steno showed that recovering the past
could be as straightforward as geometry. And in the earth's rocks he had
found a testimony no less valid than the Holy Writ itself." p2
Steno's religion did not provide him the basis for his work; indeed, he
had to go to some lengths to reconcile it with scripture. Moreover, in
the period where his ideas won out (the late 18thC), that reconciliation
became impossible.
When will people actually *read* about these people rather than reading
apologetic misrepresentations? History is *much* more interesting than
these pious fictions.
Refs:
Bacon, Francis. 1960. The new Organon and related writings. Translated
by F. H. Anderson. Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill. Original edition, 1620.
Cutler, Alan. 2003. The seashell on the mountaintop: A story of science,
sainthood, and the humble genius who discovered a new history of the
earth. London: Heinemann.
Dampier, William Cecil. 1946. A history of science and its relations
with philosophy & religion. 3rd revised and enlarged ed. Cambridge UK;
New York: Macmillan.
Newton, Isaac. 1946. Sir Isaac Newton's Mathematical principles of
natural philosophy and his System of the world. Translated by A. Motte
and F. Cajorti. Berkeley CA: University of California Press.
Simpson, James Y. 1925. Landmarks in the struggle between science and
religion. London: Hodder and Stoughton.
Stafleu, Franz Antonie. 1971. Linnaeus and the Linnaeans. The spreading
of their ideas in systematic botany, 1735-1789, Regnum vegetabile, v.
79. Utrecht: Oosthoek.
--
John Wilkins
john...@wilkins.id.au http://www.wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
Billy Goat
> BIBLICAL EVIDENCES OF SCIENCE
>
> What is now known by science today was always known by the creator. He
> revealed some his knowledge to us through the Bible.
Then why are Bible experts always unaware of the scientific truths in
the Bible until scientists discover them on their own?
By the way, you already posted this two weeks ago.
--Billy
The Church of The Painful Truth
"bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:405BD260...@netvigator.com...
> For your entertainment - the usual 'scrapings from the bottom of the
barrel'!
+Yes booby you most certainly are!!:)+
The Church of The Painful Truth
"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETO...@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:c3glif$270bis$1...@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Isaiah 40:22 tells us the earth is not flat but a round sphere. The
prophet
> > states God "sits above the circle on the face of the earth." The word
for
> > circle in Hebrew, is translated sphere or roundness. The Bible had
refuted
> > the flat earth theory long before scientists actually disproved it.
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
4a. Specific example for 4.: Cry for "freedom from religion", but whenever
followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream
"Persecution!"
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than
be honest and admit the obvious
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of atheisms failure for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to yourself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of no ones plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of being a
vertabrate monkey out of the premordial slugde
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as right wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything because you have no moral
compass guiding you.
Jon Fleming
(John Wilkins) wrote:
>> > Matthew Maury- Discovery of oceanography from Psalms 8:8
>
>No idea. Seriously doubt it.
An overstatement of an already falsified claim, discussed here
recently.
<http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&c2coff=1&selm=24942-404D2D09-502%40storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>
(or http://tinyurl.com/2595p):
"Maury knew there were predictable currents long before the
mid-nineteenth century; as did many an earlier ancient mariner. It
was Benjamin Franklin of revolutionary notoriety who had the Gulf
Stream chartered before Maury knew how to find the sea. ...
Similarly, there is no good reason indicated for believing Psalm 8:8
was a secret code waiting for Maury to decipher. Whether currents
were referenced or something else, there is reason to believe the
psalmist's audience knew what he was talking about.
Maury did an impressive work, but he did not discover that the oceans
had currents, and he certainly didn't discover the oceans had currents
based on a sick-bed or other reading of Psalm 8:8. ...
Maury just isn't the poster boy the young-earth and other brands of
creationism have made him out to be."
See also
<http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&c2coff=1&selm=3328-404E98F2-607%40storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net&rnum=4>
(or http://tinyurl.com/create.php).
--
Replace nospam with group to email
Mike Painter
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nos...@Nomarketing.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-AkO6c.65$E54.1...@news.uswest.net...
Thank you again painful.
You commit a legal and moral crime by plagiarizing, thus showing the nature
of people like you.
Your comments are top posted, thus showing you have no considerations for
others.
You are incapable of defending your stolen material, instead you resort to
insults.
I say thank you because you do more for atheism than we do.
It was somebody named Karl who made me question my beliefs and determine I
was in fact an atheist.
Karl was much smarter than you and would actually respond with his own
thoughts once in a while.
Karl thought, among other things, that the mean and the median are the same.
But he was much smarter than you.
Meteorite Debris
Church of The Painful Truth<Nos...@Nomarketing.com> sent a radio
signal across the vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.-
-._.
> What is now known by science today was always known by the creator. He
> revealed some his knowledge to us through the Bible.
He know rabbits chew their cud and that bats are birds.
--
epicurus1*at*optusnet*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Shhh. Be very quiet, I'm hunting automorons. Heh heh.
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
Mark K. Bilbo
<ie2o50l95okqprc38...@4ax.com> we saw our hero "Thomas P."
<tonyofbexa...@yahoo.dk>:
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 05:33:25 +0000 (UTC), "Thore Schmechtig"
> <WRITETO...@carcosa.de> wrote:
>
>>> Isaiah 40:22 tells us the earth is not flat but a round sphere. The
>>> prophet states God "sits above the circle on the face of the earth."
>>> The word for circle in Hebrew, is translated sphere or roundness. The
>>> Bible had refuted the flat earth theory long before scientists actually
>>> disproved it.
>>
>>Those four corners of the earth... those pillars who support earth and
>>heaven... don't really fit into the weak theory of a scientific babble.
>>;)
>
> In addition I wonder where "above" is when talking about a spherical
> Earth.
>
> Did Hebrew children play games in which they threw circles at each other?
You gotta wonder.
(Of course, Church of the Perpetual Troll ignores that there *was a word
for "ball" in Hebrew but "god" forgot to use it in the above passage from
Isaiah, opting curiously enough to use a word with a root that refers to
encircling something.)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
Mark K. Bilbo
<pan.2004.03.20....@mail.utexas.edu> we saw our hero "Bobby D.
Bryant" <bdbr...@mail.utexas.edu>:
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:42:55 +0000, The Church of The Painful Truth wrote:
>
>> God speaking to Abraham who is the one he would begin to give his
>> teachings to Gen. 13:16 "And I will make your descendants as the dust of
>> the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then
>> your descendants also could be numbered."
>
> If you intend that to be taken literally, it is simply wrong.
Even *figuratively.
There are tons of national and ethnic groups more numerous than the Jews.
They're just not that big a population...
Mark K. Bilbo
<405BD260...@netvigator.com> we saw:
<piggy backing>
Church of the Perpetual Troll drooled:
>> Gen. 15:5 "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able
>> to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." Now
>> we know there are at least 1 hundred million, billion, billion. This
>> would be like your counting 10 numbers per second. It would then take
>> you a thousand, million, billion years. God's point is that we can't
>> count with the naked eye that high.
I just looked at the world Jewish population is estimated (at the Jewish
Virtual Library) to be about 13 million.
Which doesn't look like a "hundred million, billion, billion" at all.
It's not even the population of Texas. Hell, it's barely the
population of LA and Orange counties (combined) in California. Maybe half
of the population of Mexico City or Bejing.
So did "god" count the stars wrong or something?
Bobby D. Bryant
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 05:07:35 +0000 in episode
> <405BD260...@netvigator.com> we saw:
>
> <piggy backing>
>
> Church of the Perpetual Troll drooled:
>
>>> Gen. 15:5 "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able
>>> to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
>>> Now we know there are at least 1 hundred million, billion, billion.
>>> This would be like your counting 10 numbers per second. It would then
>>> take you a thousand, million, billion years. God's point is that we
>>> can't count with the naked eye that high.
>
> I just looked at the world Jewish population is estimated (at the Jewish
> Virtual Library) to be about 13 million.
>
> Which doesn't look like a "hundred million, billion, billion" at all.
>
> It's not even the population of Texas. Hell, it's barely the population
> of LA and Orange counties (combined) in California. Maybe half of the
> population of Mexico City or Bejing.
>
> So did "god" count the stars wrong or something?
IIRC only about 7,000 are visible to the naked eye.
Not as if that tightens up the argument.
The Church of The Painful Truth
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y...@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.03.21....@hoo.com-amikchi...
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 05:07:35 +0000 in episode
> <405BD260...@netvigator.com> we saw:
>
> <piggy backing>
>
> Church of the Perpetual Troll drooled:
>
> >> Gen. 15:5 "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able
> >> to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
Now
> >> we know there are at least 1 hundred million, billion, billion. This
> >> would be like your counting 10 numbers per second. It would then take
> >> you a thousand, million, billion years. God's point is that we can't
> >> count with the naked eye that high.
>
> I just looked at the world Jewish population is estimated (at the Jewish
> Virtual Library) to be about 13 million.
>
> Which doesn't look like a "hundred million, billion, billion" at all.
>
> It's not even the population of Texas. Hell, it's barely the
> population of LA and Orange counties (combined) in California. Maybe half
> of the population of Mexico City or Bejing.
>
So did "god" count the stars wrong or something?
+Absolutely not ,but you did..."hundred million, billion, billion" at
all.Who ever claimed that figure but you yourself and not G~D,which makes
you a liar again :-)+
Thore Schmechtig
five brain cells. ;)
--
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
(found on www.evilbible.com)
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
Thomas P.
<y...@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:01:08 +0000 in episode
><ie2o50l95okqprc38...@4ax.com> we saw our hero "Thomas P."
><tonyofbexa...@yahoo.dk>:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 05:33:25 +0000 (UTC), "Thore Schmechtig"
>> <WRITETO...@carcosa.de> wrote:
>>
>>>> Isaiah 40:22 tells us the earth is not flat but a round sphere. The
>>>> prophet states God "sits above the circle on the face of the earth."
>>>> The word for circle in Hebrew, is translated sphere or roundness. The
>>>> Bible had refuted the flat earth theory long before scientists actually
>>>> disproved it.
>>>
>>>Those four corners of the earth... those pillars who support earth and
>>>heaven... don't really fit into the weak theory of a scientific babble.
>>>;)
>>
>> In addition I wonder where "above" is when talking about a spherical
>> Earth.
>>
>> Did Hebrew children play games in which they threw circles at each other?
>
>You gotta wonder.
>
>(Of course, Church of the Perpetual Troll ignores that there *was a word
>for "ball" in Hebrew but "god" forgot to use it in the above passage from
>Isaiah, opting curiously enough to use a word with a root that refers to
>encircling something.)
Ah, God's ways are not our ways! (all-purpose excuse when the belief
is horrible, idiotic, or both)
Mark K. Bilbo
<7fuq50dhlvq2ekicp...@4ax.com> we saw our hero "Thomas P."
<tonyofbexa...@yahoo.dk>:
Ya know, that phrase kinda reminds me of the things people do trying to
distract from the fart they just let fly...
Armitage
Hey Painful -- "hundred million, billion, billion" came from the tract
that *you* pasted at the start of this thread. I can't say I blame you
for not reading it, though.
--
Armitage.
The Church of The Painful Truth
"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETO...@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:c3j7am$28409b$1...@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de...
+Still lost eh you retrograde talking monkey. Don't want to participate,
don't. I don't remember specifically asking for YOUR opinion. I guess you
just like to see your name on the screen.+
+TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A ATHEIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of the only god claimed and supported
by the only true religion, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of atheism.
9 - You feel enlightened and "humanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have a huge problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created by GOD.
8 - You laugh at theists, but you have no problem believing in order out of
chaos.
7 - you don't flinch when hearing about how atheists slaughtered all the
babies of China and Russia in the
history books and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in
Cambodia and other countries including
women and children!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about
gods sleeping with women, and you laugh and villify
people believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth
to a man-god who was crucified for our sins,came back to life and then
ascended into heaven.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the
scientifically established age of Earth, and you find everything wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age scientists sitting in their homes
and stating the age of the earth.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet have no souls
including those in all rival sects of secular humanism- and will
spend Eternity in blackness and devoid of any purpose.
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed
to convince you otherwise, some idiot out to save his
paycheck and tenure rolling around on the floor speaking like a talking
monkey gloriying evilution may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Atheism.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to atheist
evidence for no God.
You consider that to be evidence that atheism works. And you
think that the remaining 99.99% SUCCESS was simply chance.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many theists and agnostics do about
the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself an atheist.
Thomas P.
<y...@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
>On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:11:59 +0000 in episode
snip
>>>> In addition I wonder where "above" is when talking about a spherical
>>>> Earth.
>>>>
>>>> Did Hebrew children play games in which they threw circles at each
>>>> other?
>>>
>>>
>>>You gotta wonder.
>>>
>>>(Of course, Church of the Perpetual Troll ignores that there *was a word
>>>for "ball" in Hebrew but "god" forgot to use it in the above passage from
>>>Isaiah, opting curiously enough to use a word with a root that refers to
>>>encircling something.)
>>
>> Ah, God's ways are not our ways! (all-purpose excuse when the belief is
>> horrible, idiotic, or both)
>
>Ya know, that phrase kinda reminds me of the things people do trying to
>distract from the fart they just let fly...
I usually look disgusted and stare at the guy next to me.
Mark K. Bilbo
<c3khtm$9mr$1...@sparta.btinternet.com> we saw our hero Armitage
<armitag...@example.com>:
<blink> <blink>
He's trashing me for what he posted?
Harry F. Leopold
(in message <pan.2004.03.21....@hoo.com-amikchi>):
> From: "Mark K. Bilbo" <y...@hoo.com-amikchi>
> Newsgroups: alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,
> alt.talk.creationism, talk.origins
>
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 05:07:35 +0000 in episode
> <405BD260...@netvigator.com> we saw:
>
> <piggy backing>
>
> Church of the Perpetual Troll drooled:
>
>>> Gen. 15:5 "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able
>>> to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." Now
>>> we know there are at least 1 hundred million, billion, billion. This
>>> would be like your counting 10 numbers per second. It would then take
>>> you a thousand, million, billion years. God's point is that we can't
>>> count with the naked eye that high.
>
> I just looked at the world Jewish population is estimated (at the Jewish
> Virtual Library) to be about 13 million.
>
> Which doesn't look like a "hundred million, billion, billion" at all.
>
> It's not even the population of Texas. Hell, it's barely the
> population of LA and Orange counties (combined) in California. Maybe half
> of the population of Mexico City or Bejing.
>
> So did "god" count the stars wrong or something?
And as far as I have ever heard there are about 6,000 naked eye stars (stars
of mag. 6 or brighter). Seems this god of CPTroll's can't count either.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
"But it could also be a new troll being born. (Do they form by accretion?)"
-Chuck Taylor
Raymond E. Griffith
Leopold at hleo...@coxyx.net wrote on 3/21/04 8:47 PM:
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:24:07 -0600, Mark K. Bilbo wrote
> (in message <pan.2004.03.21....@hoo.com-amikchi>):
>
>> From: "Mark K. Bilbo" <y...@hoo.com-amikchi>
>> Newsgroups: alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,
>> alt.talk.creationism, talk.origins
>>
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 05:07:35 +0000 in episode
>> <405BD260...@netvigator.com> we saw:
>>
>> <piggy backing>
>>
>> Church of the Perpetual Troll drooled:
>>
>>>> Gen. 15:5 "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able
>>>> to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." Now
>>>> we know there are at least 1 hundred million, billion, billion. This
>>>> would be like your counting 10 numbers per second. It would then take
>>>> you a thousand, million, billion years. God's point is that we can't
>>>> count with the naked eye that high.
>>
>> I just looked at the world Jewish population is estimated (at the Jewish
>> Virtual Library) to be about 13 million.
>>
>> Which doesn't look like a "hundred million, billion, billion" at all.
>>
>> It's not even the population of Texas. Hell, it's barely the
>> population of LA and Orange counties (combined) in California. Maybe half
>> of the population of Mexico City or Bejing.
>>
>> So did "god" count the stars wrong or something?
>
> And as far as I have ever heard there are about 6,000 naked eye stars (stars
> of mag. 6 or brighter). Seems this god of CPTroll's can't count either.
This was not the point of the promise to Abraham. To Abraham, the night sky
was large enough, and counting all of the stars a task beyond his ability.
Even so, the Lord did not say that Abraham's descendents would have the same
number as the stars, but that they would be equally uncountable to him. This
was a nice, nebulous way of saying that he would have lots of descendents.
Even so, this is an illustration that God's dealings with Abraham were not
on a literal basis, but on a level that Abraham could understand. That
Abraham has had descendents numbering in the millions instead of the
thousands is illustrative that God did not literally mean the visible stars.
That Abraham has not had, nor will have descendents numbering in the hundred
million billion billion (what is that? a hundred million octillion?) is
proof that God did not literally mean that their numbers would be as the
numbers of stars.
So if God's statements to Abraham are not to be taken literally here, why
should fundamentalists be so upset when we do not take literally certain
other words?
Raymond E. Griffith
Thore Schmechtig
> don't. I don't remember specifically asking for YOUR opinion. I guess you
> just like to see your name on the screen.+
Right on - keep showing us all what an idiot you are ;)
--
UNWRITTEN RULES OF (PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALISM
(Found in alt.bible, authors unknown)
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
4a. Specific example for 4.: Cry for "freedom of religion", but whenever followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream "Persecution!"
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than be honest and admit the obvious
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to God himself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will for
the betterment of mankind.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey