Recovery from ancient hardware.
Omri Schwarz
engineered.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7119/abs/nature05357.html
I wonder how Monkly the priest who used it was.
--
Omri Schwarz --- ocs...@mit.edu ('h' before war)
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr
Zebee Johnstone
Gene Cash <gc...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> * Where did the tech suddenly appear from?
>
> * Where did the tech suddenly disappear to? Was everyone so stupid that
According to Terry Jones in The Barbarians it didn't just appear. It
gradually grew as you would expect.
His thesis is that the problem was the Romans. Not into tech, Much
more into your basic conquest idea.
I forget the reasoning, but mainly the idea is that the Romans didn't
like it, saw little use in it for their purposes and how they made
war, and maybe were a bit afraid of it. So when the conquered the
cpeople who had such things they didn't assimilate the complex tech,
they didn't teach or learn the theories behind it, and it was lost.
It may be aliens are more likely. Perhaps steampunk time travellers.
Zebee
Omri Schwarz
> Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> writes:
>
> > The Antikythera device has been more thoroughly reverse
> > engineered.
> >
> > http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7119/abs/nature05357.html
[...]
> Seriously though, I've been following this for a while.
>
> * Where did the tech suddenly appear from?
Several centuries of Egyptian record keeping to set the gear ratios
and the like.
Several centuries to develop the knowledge among bronze smiths.
That was probably orally transmitted and managed as trade secrets.
The Romans didn't have to supress that for it to go away. The arrival
of the iron age could have done that.
> * Where did the tech suddenly disappear to? Was everyone so stupid that
> he couldn't find anyone to teach? (gee, that'd NEVER happen!) Or was
> it a closely guarded secret and they ran out of smart people that
> would also keep their mouth shut?
WHen Caesar showed up in Alexandria to take care of Pompey, he burned his
boats on the beach.
Right next to the fabled Library.
Sparks flew.
And so we lost things like "Concerning The Ocean," written
by the first Greek to circle Britain and possibly Norway.
And possibly many astronomical records, which had to be
reconstructed by way of Chinese writings drifting west on
the silk routes. Circa 400 AD.
> * You'd think such an investment in tools and knowledge was too much to
> let it die. Was this their Apollo Moon Landing Project then?
Bronze working requires copper and tin. The Romans secured a tin supply
for the Mediterrenean, but copper required a forested Cyprus, and Cyprus
got denuded about that time. And iron working isn't the same thing.
> * Was it really a one-off, or just the only one we've found? (I tend to
> think/hope we just got lucky this one survived.) In that case how many
> were made, who made them, how long did it take, how much did they
> cost, and who bought them?
A kingdom really only needs one of these. It lets you predict events
far enough into the future that horsemen can spread the information.
So really, you don't want too many of them built, and the smith who made
it can be assigned many other projects when he is done with this one.
> * Do high-tech devices really routinely deteriorate beyond recognition
> that much and there's a whole lot of ancient tech that we don't know
> about? There's an assload of Roman tech we do know about. How big a
> fraction was lost?
Sophocles wrote 120 plays. We have 7 and fragments of an 8th.
> * Are our descendants going to find *A* 5150 and boggle about how & why
> we built this one mysterious box? Or are they just going to find a
> motherboard, think it's some sort of strange decoration or artwork and
> not investigate further? Or are there just going to be tons of orphan
> mysterious Model M keyboards which are the only things to survive?
>
> * How long am I going to keep from using the word "fascinating" in this
> post?
SteveD
wrote:
>So really, you don't want too many of them built, and the smith who made
>it can be assigned many other projects when he is done with this one.
Never has "assigned [to] other projects" sounded so ominous.
David Cameron Staples
"There's this thing we want you to build next. It's called a 'Labyrinth'..."
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT cs DOT mu DOT oz DOT au
Melbourne University | Computer Science | Technical Services
Jesus dies i get chocolate.. jesus is born I get presents.. works for me..
-- bash.org/?454774
mrob...@worldnet.att.net
> Gene Cash <gc...@cfl.rr.com> writes:
>> * Where did the tech suddenly appear from?
>
> Several centuries of Egyptian record keeping to set the gear ratios
> and the like.
This probably falls into the category of "everybody thinks the press
isn't too bad until it reports on a story that they personally know
something about." But I have talked to people that have had all kinds
of odd ideas about the way the world worked. Every once in a while, one
of them is pretty smart and we can have a good debate about it; usually
neither of us ends up changing our views but it's interesting to talk
about. But a lot of them are flat-out k00ks. Most of the time I can
just smile and nod until the opportunity to bolt arrives.
One time, though, I got quite angry at a gentleman. The only thing that
stopped it becoming a shouting match or worse is that the event we were
attending was ending and I had to get on the road. Anyway, he was quite
sure that humans did not invent electronic digital computers, and that
said technology was given to us by the aliens in the 1940s and 1950s.
During the event he had expressed his views on other subjects, and that
made me pretty sure he sincerely believed that aliens gave us computers
bit. I could blow off his ideas on the other subjects, but the
assertion about computers made me angry. Not dismayed, not surprised -
*angry*. At the time, I was less than 2^5 years old, but I still had
been around some very smart people who had been working very hard to
advance the state of the art, and this guy was asserting that humans
weren't smart enough to figure it out on their own. This assertion was
such patent bullshit that it boggled my mind.
So, anyway, I have no doubt that people in the second century BCE could
have built this device. It probably took them a while to both collect
the knowledge and develop the manufacturing capability, but they did it.
>> * Do high-tech devices really routinely deteriorate beyond recognition
>> that much and there's a whole lot of ancient tech that we don't know
>> about? There's an assload of Roman tech we do know about. How big a
>> fraction was lost?
>
> Sophocles wrote 120 plays. We have 7 and fragments of an 8th.
Find a 15-year-old and ask him or her to operate a dial telephone.
Find a 20-year-old and ask him or her to operate a slide rule.
Find a 25-year-old and give him or her an "All-American Five" tube
radio, with one burned-out tube (open filament). See if he or she
can identify the problem.
OK, granted, I am talking about individuals and Gene is talking about
society as a whole. As a society, we still have plenty of people who
could do all three things. And in each case, the person involved could
probably identify the basic purpose of the device, even if they are not
sure how to operate it. But still, I don't think it's hard to see how
technology could get lost over time.
>> * Are our descendants going to find *A* 5150 and boggle about
>> how & why we built this one mysterious box?
They probably won't even have a working CD player to listen to it.
Matt Roberds
Paul Tomblin
"You'll have an important role in our long term strategy. We need you for
a vital part of the manufacture of Damascus steel swords. Or rather, one
particular sword."
(Isn't it Damascus steel that folklore had it that it was quenched by
plunging into the body of a slave?)
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
Alan J Rosenthal
[angry at assertions about aliens]
>[I] had been around some very smart people who had been working very hard to
>advance the state of the art, and this guy was asserting that humans
>weren't smart enough to figure it out on their own.
The traditional response to this is "perhaps _you_ aren't."
aka "speak for yourself"
There's never a shortage of people saying that their own situation, whether
it be praiseworthy or deficient, is characteristic of all humanity.
Dave
Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote:
> I wonder how Monkly the priest who used it was.
I wonder if he was allowed to sacrifice the lusers as well as
goats/chickens, etc.
Dave
--
millibrachiate tentacular coelenterates..
Dave
Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote:
> A kingdom really only needs one of these. It lets you predict events
> far enough into the future that horsemen can spread the information.
>
> So really, you don't want too many of them built, and the smith who made
> it can be assigned many other projects when he is done with this one.
Or put to death. As you say, the -priests- only needed one of these.
Just enough to be able to 'magically' predict the next eclipse and keep
up the idea amongst the plebs that they've got a hot-line to the gods.
Brian Kantor
>
> * Where did the tech suddenly appear from?
>
> * Where did the tech suddenly disappear to? Was everyone so stupid that
It is largely analogous to the mysterious quantity "intelligence":
1. Intelligence is distributed nearly evenly, with only the occasional
concentration in one person.
2. The total quantity of Intelligence is a constant: as more people come
into being, fewer and fewer get a sufficient amount for themselves.
3. Some say this has already reached homeopathic levels.
- Brian
Tanuki
<ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> said
>Sophocles wrote 120 plays. We have 7 and fragments of an 8th.
Hell, that's the sort of theatrical criticism you just *don't* see
these days, but which really really needs to be reintroduced.
--
Tanuki
"Pilots don't fly Aircraft. Pilots fly Targets."
Chris Hoess
"Excellent job on the bull, Perillos. We're a little short-handed,
however, so we'll be giving you an assignment in testing."
--
Chris Hoess
Joe Zeff
>Find a 15-year-old and ask him or her to operate a dial telephone.
Add a decade to that, and you're still right. Back when I orked for
WEPUSHPACKETS, I had a call escallated to me because when the caller
tried to dial, all she heard was a funny clicking, and neither her nor
the Tier I tech could figure out what it was.
I had her try, and recognized it: ure qvnyvat cebcregvrf jrer frg gb
Chyfr Qvny. Clearly, neither of them had ever heard it before.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
Complaining about the wait times doesn't make them shorter.
http://www.lasfs.info http://www.zeff.us
Jed Davis
> Find a 25-year-old and give him or her an "All-American Five" tube
> radio, with one burned-out tube (open filament). See if he or she
> can identify the problem.
If someone brings me a dead tube radio 18 days hence, I'll know whom
to blame. They'll also need to come up with a different failure mode.
--
.text
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Chris Suslowicz
ptomblin...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>In a previous article, SteveD <use...@vo.id.au> said:
>>On 30 Nov 2006 22:00:55 -0500, Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu>
>>wrote:
>>>So really, you don't want too many of them built, and the smith who made
>>>it can be assigned many other projects when he is done with this one.
>>
>>Never has "assigned [to] other projects" sounded so ominous.
>
>"You'll have an important role in our long term strategy. We need you for
>a vital part of the manufacture of Damascus steel swords. Or rather, one
>particular sword."
ObpTerry: "Shoddy workmanship." <Thud>
>(Isn't it Damascus steel that folklore had it that it was quenched by
>plunging into the body of a slave?)
Tempered, yes.
Chris.
--
We [tinw] could use the Jamie as a unit of Stupidity applied over time,
but in practical use smaller units like micro and milliJamie-seconds
would be handier. A full Jamie/hr is a very large unit of Wank.
-- Android Cat
Joe Bednorz
<<MMTbh.86$Zb5...@newsfe13.phx>>:
A few decades ago in high school we read an article about implements
found on old farms. They were unusual in that no one could figure out
what they could possibly be used for. Which is saying something,
given the range of activities necessary for farming.
--
Links to Gigabytes of free books on line, emphasis on SF:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~jbednorz/Free/>
All the Best,
Joe Bednorz
Steve VanDevender
> In article <octr6vk...@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>,
> Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> I wonder how Monkly the priest who used it was.
>
> I wonder if he was allowed to sacrifice the lusers as well as
> goats/chickens, etc.
I should think that would only anger the gods. Sacrifice implies
offering something of value.
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
"bash awk grep perl sed df du, du-du du-du,
vi troff su fsck rm * halt LART LART LART!" -- the Swedish BOFH
Paul Tomblin
>In article <ekp8ch$7g7$1...@allhats.xcski.com>,
>ptomblin...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>(Isn't it Damascus steel that folklore had it that it was quenched by
>>plunging into the body of a slave?)
>
>Tempered, yes.
No, tempering is any heat treament or mechanical working of steel,
quenching it is one specific form of tempering involving rapidly cooling
it and encouraging the creation of martensite. Sometimes called
"marquenching".
Hey, I knew those materials science course I took in University would pay
off some day! And it only took 25 years.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes
me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal
and owe equal allegiance to their country." - Colin Powell (pre-sell out)
Mike Looney
>
> Hell, fill a room with "computer literates", give 'em an assortment of
> pre-1980 computers, and only let out the ones that can put together the
> right parts and make it run *anything*.
>
> Okay, maybe that won't actually prove anything, but it'll thin out the
> ranks a little, and be amusing.
>
Once we have thinned out the ranks, take the ones that passed the your test
and put them to work on the "computer" I started on.
That would be a ~1948 analog fire control system.
Mike Andrews
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:49:16 GMT, mrob...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>> Find a 15-year-old and ask him or her to operate a dial telephone.
>>
>> Find a 20-year-old and ask him or her to operate a slide rule.
>>
>> Find a 25-year-old and give him or her an "All-American Five" tube
>> radio, with one burned-out tube (open filament). See if he or she
>> can identify the problem.
>>
>> OK, granted, I am talking about individuals and Gene is talking about
>> society as a whole. As a society, we still have plenty of people who
>> could do all three things. And in each case, the person involved could
>> probably identify the basic purpose of the device, even if they are not
>> sure how to operate it. But still, I don't think it's hard to see how
>> technology could get lost over time.
> Hell, fill a room with "computer literates", give 'em an assortment of
> pre-1980 computers, and only let out the ones that can put together the
> right parts and make it run *anything*.
> Okay, maybe that won't actually prove anything, but it'll thin out the
> ranks a little, and be amusing.
Can I play? Please? _Pretty_ Please?
--
Mark> [Re: Aliens] What *I've* always wanted to know is why loss of [the
Mark> reactor's heat] exchanger didn't cause the multi-billion-dollar
Mark> installation to perform a safe auto-shutdown.
Mike> The real-time control system ran Windows, of course.
Kevin
Suslowicz) wrote:
>In article <ekp8ch$7g7$1...@allhats.xcski.com>,
>ptomblin...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>In a previous article, SteveD <use...@vo.id.au> said:
>>>On 30 Nov 2006 22:00:55 -0500, Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu>
>>>wrote:
>>>>So really, you don't want too many of them built, and the smith who made
>>>>it can be assigned many other projects when he is done with this one.
>>>Never has "assigned [to] other projects" sounded so ominous.
>>"You'll have an important role in our long term strategy. We need you for
>>a vital part of the manufacture of Damascus steel swords. Or rather, one
>>particular sword."
>ObpTerry: "Shoddy workmanship." <Thud>
>>(Isn't it Damascus steel that folklore had it that it was quenched by
>>plunging into the body of a slave?)
>Tempered, yes.
Plunge it a little too low and the slave is tempered instead of the sword...
Kevin
SteveD
wrote:
> A few decades ago in high school we read an article about implements
>found on old farms. They were unusual in that no one could figure out
>what they could possibly be used for.
Confusing future archaeologists.
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Once we have thinned out the ranks, take the ones that passed the your test
> and put them to work on the "computer" I started on.
>
> That would be a ~1948 analog fire control system.
You'd have fun in our lifts.
I got shown the lift motor room a few days ago, when an AC-DC
generator wasn't shutting off after a minute. The timer for this
generator is a capacitor and another nixie tube (amazing where you
find nixie tubes). It is still the case that we don't have any spare
nixies, so when they die, we are one lift down.
--
TimC
Probably best see a real doctor and not take too much diagnostic advice
from a bunch of sysadmins who consider the body a meat computer that
needs debugging. -- Anthony de Boer on possible nerve damage in ASR
Dave Hughes
> I got shown the lift motor room a few days ago, when an AC-DC
> generator wasn't shutting off after a minute. The timer for this
> generator is a capacitor and another nixie tube (amazing where you
> find nixie tubes). It is still the case that we don't have any spare
> nixies, so when they die, we are one lift down.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if this is for timing it
shouldn't be too hard to put something relatively cheap and modern in its
place, modulo a few hacks to ensure voltages to each end are roughly in
the right range.
It does seem like you're in a place that really doesn't want to think
about upgrading anything, even after a part has failed. Granted that can
introduce new and interesting.cn failure modes, but surely it's worth a
shot? I mean, I know you're looking at space and all, but it's not like
you're hurling people in that direction as a matter of course.
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
"Reading computer manuals without the hardware is as frustrating as
reading sex manuals without the software." - Arthur C Clarke
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
>> I got shown the lift motor room a few days ago, when an AC-DC
>> generator wasn't shutting off after a minute. The timer for this
>> generator is a capacitor and another nixie tube (amazing where you
>> find nixie tubes). It is still the case that we don't have any spare
>> nixies, so when they die, we are one lift down.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if this is for timing it
> shouldn't be too hard to put something relatively cheap and modern in its
> place, modulo a few hacks to ensure voltages to each end are roughly in
> the right range.
If something like that failed, no doubt they'd hack something up in a
few days. Although it looked awfully scary to *me* (I love the
accelaration "computer" -- a big spiral with notches in it).
> It does seem like you're in a place that really doesn't want to think
> about upgrading anything, even after a part has failed. Granted that can
> introduce new and interesting.cn failure modes, but surely it's worth a
> shot? I mean, I know you're looking at space and all, but it's not like
> you're hurling people in that direction as a matter of course.
I think they are scared about upgrading everything else because one
night lost caused by a fsckup would cost *someone* $10,000. When you
get fed by the government and have a limited budget and have to keep
meticulous usage stats, you don't want to record too many of these
nights in a given financial year.
I want to see the big switch that comes with the new telescope control
computer and will switch between the new TCS and the old one whenever
the new one fscks up. Quattuortrigintuple Pole, Double Throw (can't
just make digital switches -- there are plenty of analogue signals
flying around)?
--
TimC
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs. --unknown
Mike Andrews
>>ObpTerry: "Shoddy workmanship." <Thud>
>>Tempered, yes.
Thanks for that tip, Mr. Farnham!
--
I'm always impressed by the Braille on wine bottle labels.
So far I've not been able to drink sufficient to find them useful.
I suppose that everybody needs goals.
-- Tony Quinn, possibly quoting someone else
Jasper Janssen
<hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>Hell, fill a room with "computer literates", give 'em an assortment of
>pre-1980 computers, and only let out the ones that can put together the
>right parts and make it run *anything*.
>
>Okay, maybe that won't actually prove anything, but it'll thin out the
>ranks a little, and be amusing.
Do we get a random assortment of pre-1980 parts or do we get ones that
actually work (at least as much as they ever did)? Cause, the average CP/M
boot disk is probably getting a bit decayed by now..
Jasper
Jasper Janssen
<tcon...@no.spam.accepted.here-astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
>I want to see the big switch that comes with the new telescope control
>computer and will switch between the new TCS and the old one whenever
>the new one fscks up. Quattuortrigintuple Pole, Double Throw (can't
>just make digital switches -- there are plenty of analogue signals
>flying around)?
430 pole? I'm imagining an entire rack full of SPDT or DPDT switches, each
mechanically hooked up to one big lever. And when you've thrown it you'll
have to check visually that each individual switch actually got thrown.
Jasper
Mike Looney
> On 2006-12-02, Mike Looney (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Once we have thinned out the ranks, take the ones that passed the your test
>> and put them to work on the "computer" I started on.
>>
>> That would be a ~1948 analog fire control system.
>
> You'd have fun in our lifts.
>
> I got shown the lift motor room a few days ago, when an AC-DC
> generator wasn't shutting off after a minute. The timer for this
> generator is a capacitor and another nixie tube (amazing where you
> find nixie tubes). It is still the case that we don't have any spare
> nixies, so when they die, we are one lift down.
>
Any oil filled variable resistors? Massive number of lin/log amps?
Not to mention the "Bill the Galatic Hero" level fuse banks.
Chris Suslowicz
Mike Looney <mlo...@spellbooksoftware.com> wrote:
Oh, one of *those*....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/31/a2083231.shtml
Chris.
--
The sysadmin has graciously deigned not to cast you headlong
into a pit of rabid wombats. Please bear this in mind when
composing your message or request.
Zebee Johnstone
"Ritual purposes". Archeologist code for "damfino"
Zebee
ne...@buffy.sighup.org.uk
> Oh, one of *those*....
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/31/a2083231.shtml
> Chris.
Glide Path by Arthur C. Clarke is an only slightly fictionalised account of
the development during the war of a radar assisted landing system. Required
reading for anybody involved in system development. There's an especially
good bit about what to do with a few thousand gallons of aviation fuel and
a fogged in airport.
--
Geoff Lane, Airstrip One
Chris Suslowicz
<ne...@buffy.sighup.org.uk> wrote:
Yes indeed: "Fog, Intensive, Dispersal Of" (see also eBay item 20054749000)
Chris (and it's a very good book, too).
--
Networks are like sewers ... My job is to make sure your data goes
away when you flush, and to stop the rats climbing into your toilet
through the pipes. (Tanuki, describing network administration.)
The Horny Goat
<mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>>>>(Isn't it Damascus steel that folklore had it that it was quenched by
>>>>plunging into the body of a slave?)
>
>>>Tempered, yes.
>
>> Plunge it a little too low and the slave is tempered instead of the sword...
>
>Thanks for that tip, Mr. Farnham!
No no - when tempered in this manner the slave is alive but without a
tip...
The Horny Goat
>Find a 15-year-old and ask him or her to operate a dial telephone.
>
>Find a 20-year-old and ask him or her to operate a slide rule.
>
>Find a 25-year-old and give him or her an "All-American Five" tube
>radio, with one burned-out tube (open filament). See if he or she
>can identify the problem.
I'm fairly certain my 15 year old son^h^h^hjunior monk could manage
all three - though he'd be likely to ensure one or more of the larger
capacitors was fully charged before giving it back to you. He'd be
equally likely to not bother trying to fix it as he had something
"interesting" in mind to do with the tuner.
Robert Uhl
>
> Where's my homeopathic gin?
Well, following homoeopathic principals we need to find some substances
which reverse intoxication; thus I suggest we start with water and
coffee. We then dilute the water and coffee with...water, until there
are no more than 1 or 2 water or coffee molecules in a tun. Voila!
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves
largess out of the public treasury. --Alexander Tytler
Robert Uhl
I just want to point out that when the SAT first allowed calculators
(1995, IIRC), I showed up armed with my dad's K&E slide rule. After a
bit of thought the proctor allowed it. Got a better math score that
year than the following one with an electronic calculator, FWIW.
--
Those disks had data densities best expressed as bits per square kilometer,
and head/disk gaps you could drive a doubledecker bus through.
--Rik Steenwinkel
Jed Davis
> Find a 25-year-old and give him or her an "All-American Five" tube
> radio, with one burned-out tube (open filament). See if he or she
> can identify the problem.
On further thought, it occurs to me: I have a distinctly better
understanding of the physical principles underlying lightbulb-state
logic than I do for solid-state, despite how I can't remember when if
ever I might last have seen a live instance of the former.
--
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Bruce Tomlin
Jasper Janssen <jas...@jjanssen.org> wrote:
> Do we get a random assortment of pre-1980 parts or do we get ones that
> actually work (at least as much as they ever did)? Cause, the average CP/M
> boot disk is probably getting a bit decayed by now..
I recently found the box with my 1982-1986 era TRS-80 floppy disks (they
had been hidden at the top of a closet for the past two years), dug out
the PC with the Catweasel board and floppy disks, and imaged the most
important 50 or so disks in a couple of hours.
There were a few errors that probably were errors back in the day, but
most of them read with no trouble. A few needed retries or tweaks to
get a good track read. Fortunately I had a head-cleaner disk in the box
and it did help a bit when used.
I still have yet to hook up an 8-inch monster drive (they need a cable
adapter, for one thing) to read the couple of dozen REAL floppy disks
(mostly TRS-80 Model II/16) that I accumulated over the years from
thrift store shopping.
I think the most important problem with reading old disks isn't reading
them the first time, it's reading them a lot of times. If you image
them and put them away, fine, but if you insist on hooking up the old
equipment and actually using it, you'll probably accumulate brown grunge
on the drive heads much faster than you would have back in the day.
...and then there's those damn Apple/Atari/Commodore flippy disks.
Modern drives refuse to even turn on the data from the read head until
they see an index hole, so you either need an older (usually
belt-driven) drive, or punch an index hole of your own, which gets real
tiring real fast. (And to pre-emptively answer it: no, you can't just
use a double-sided drive, even if you reverse the bits, because the
second head is two tracks in, so you can't even read the first two
tracks)
ObDisclaimer: if this is UI for you, are they hiring?
Robert Sneddon
<chris...@suslowicz.org> writes
>Yes indeed: "Fog, Intensive, Dispersal Of" (see also eBay item 20054749000)
Ah, an Offog?
I wonder if that's where EFR (who was in the RAF during the Late
Unpleasantness) got the name from?
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
mrob...@worldnet.att.net
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/31/a2083231.shtml
The middle of a trilogy, apparently.
intro http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/23/a2083123.shtml
conclusion http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/86/a2083286.shtml
Part the first, in which Our Hero learns about manglement:
"On the job, work was controlled by the chap with the highest trade
test qualification, while the bloke with most stripes was allowed
to shout at the others on the parade ground."
Part the second, in which the Axis comes to tears due to the cunning
use of ethanol:
"I don't think the system was much good until Bedford of Cossor came up
with the 'Bedford Bastard'. It was so obviously a late addition, being
bolted onto the front of the display unit, and a scandalous rumour
circulating at the time said it was conceived overnight in an alcoholic
haze. Still, it was very much better than anything else we had, and we
actually started shooting down planes."
Part the third, in which Our Hero learns about demos for manglement:
"It was a total failure. We saw the flash of the guns, and some time
later heard the bangs, but fall-of-shot - Zilch! [...] The next day a
highly irate Colonel ordered an investigation, and it transpired that
after a manual exercise in gun-loading, just in case the Colonel ordered
it, the pins locking the guns to the radar had been pulled and replaced
90 deg out of phase. This resulted in a very tart telephone call from
the Forestry people, who complained about 9.2-inch shells whizzing over
their heads."
Matt Roberds
Jove
<fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <C197C04D9...@192.168.1.23>, Chris Suslowicz
><chris...@suslowicz.org> writes
>
>>Yes indeed: "Fog, Intensive, Dispersal Of" (see also eBay item 20054749000)
>
> Ah, an Offog?
>
> I wonder if that's where EFR (who was in the RAF during the Late
>Unpleasantness) got the name from?
Bssbt vf sebz "Nyynzntbbfn" ol Revp Senax Ehffryy (RSE). Vg jba gur
1955 Uhtb njneq sbe fubeg fgbel. Uvtuyl erpbzzraqrq. Vg'f ninvynoyr
gb ernq serr bayvar urer:
<uggc://jjj.fpvsv.pbz/fpvsvpgvba/pynffvpf/pynffvpf_nepuvir/ehffryy/ehffryy1.ugzy>
--
Index to free SF: <http://www.mindspring.com/~jbednorz/Free/>. The
Thunder Child's SF links to Project Gutenberg, Baen Free Library and
CDs, the Sci-Fi Channel's archive of classic & original SF & more.
All the best, Joe Bednorz
Jasper Janssen
Boer - USEnet) wrote:
>Tanuki posted thus:
>>I am reminded of the process involved in cutting-over the customer
>>circuits on to a new 10,000-line telephone exchange. It involves lots
>>of frames with phosphor-bronze spring-contacts separated by plastic
>>wedges, lots of nylon cords threaded through said wedges, and a batch
>>of Big Burly Guys to heave on the commoned-together nylon cords at
>>the appointed moment.
>
>I've heard tales of a really big guillotine being rigged over the
>cable-bundles into the old analog switch, though knowing about
>Backout Plans I have to doubt that part.
>
>There was also the story of the cutover that started coming off the
>rails midway through, until one of the guys ran across the street to
>the all-night grocery store to procure a dead chicken to place atop
>the snazzy new electronic switch.
A frozen dead chicken? Why not peas?
Jasper
Jasper Janssen
>SteveD sez:
>> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 20:59:18 GMT, Joe Bednorz <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A few decades ago in high school we read an article about implements
>>>found on old farms. They were unusual in that no one could figure out
>>>what they could possibly be used for.
>>
>> Confusing future archaeologists.
>
>something like that, we call it "a ceremonial item". No confusion there.
As the son of a (current) archeologist, head of a whole department of them
even..
What he said. There's a cartoon[1] book out there in which the
archeologists of the time conclude that before the Great Mail Order
Catalogue Catastrophe in which the previous civilisation buried itself,
there were lots of altars (the only thing that survived in great numbers)
at which we worshipped with various ceremonial objects, things like toilet
brushes and bog roll holders...
Jasper
[1] As in political cartoon, in style.
Mike Andrews
> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:14:26 +0000 (UTC), ab...@leftmind.net (Anthony de
> Boer - USEnet) wrote:
>>Tanuki posted thus:
>>>I am reminded of the process involved in cutting-over the customer
>>>circuits on to a new 10,000-line telephone exchange. It involves lots
>>>of frames with phosphor-bronze spring-contacts separated by plastic
>>>wedges, lots of nylon cords threaded through said wedges, and a batch
>>>of Big Burly Guys to heave on the commoned-together nylon cords at
>>>the appointed moment.
>>
>>I've heard tales of a really big guillotine being rigged over the
>>cable-bundles into the old analog switch, though knowing about
>>Backout Plans I have to doubt that part.
ISTR that there are ceramic guillotines, operated by Hefty Pyrotechnics,
to cut certain cable bundles in various rockets, as a normal part of Things
Going Up And Not Coming Down Again. I'm trying to recall where I read about
this. IMSC, it involves cutting cables with lots of Rich Chunky Amps moving
through them at lots of Equally Rich Chunky Volts, to make sure that the
next stage gets a good send-off and then runs on its own.
>>There was also the story of the cutover that started coming off the
>>rails midway through, until one of the guys ran across the street to
>>the all-night grocery store to procure a dead chicken to place atop
>>the snazzy new electronic switch.
> A frozen dead chicken? Why not peas?
Whirled or otherwise?
--
Unsubscribing from a mailing list you subscribed to is a basic IQ
test for Internet users.
-- Author unknown, seen on the PCR-1000 list
Mike Andrews
> "Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> writes:
>> ISTR that there are ceramic guillotines, operated by Hefty Pyrotechnics,
>> to cut certain cable bundles in various rockets, as a normal part of Things
>> Going Up And Not Coming Down Again. I'm trying to recall where I read about
>> this. IMSC, it involves cutting cables with lots of Rich Chunky Amps moving
>> through them at lots of Equally Rich Chunky Volts, to make sure that the
>> next stage gets a good send-off and then runs on its own.
> Any of the Apollo mission reports by Apogee books, which are collections
> of the original press kits and other technical resources, including the
> formerly classified crew debriefs. Excellent books for the space
> geek in your household.[1]
I was the first person after the debriefers-and-crew to see the debriefing
transcript tapes for all the Gemini flights. The debriefers brought them
straight into the Data Reduction Complex; they went straight back to the
audio dubbing gear at highest-possible-priority. We made multiple copies
on Ampex 351 bardware, after which the originals went back to the source
and the dubs went I-don't-know-where. This made for great listening:
_ALL_ the gripes and bitches about _everything_ came out. Case in point:
imagine being up on station for a week, and having apricots for dessert
for multiple meals without an intervening spacewalk: lots of rich, chunky,
apricot-scented farts. The Crew Were Not Amused.
--
Politics and religion are just like software and hardware.
They all suck, the documentation is provably incorrect, and all
the vendors tell lies.
-- Andrew Dalgleish, in the Monastery
Shalom Septimus
wrote:
>Index to free SF: <http://www.mindspring.com/~jbednorz/Free/>. The
>Thunder Child's SF links to Project Gutenberg, Baen Free Library and
>CDs, the Sci-Fi Channel's archive of classic & original SF & more.
> All the best, Joe Bednorz
>http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/18949
<<shudder>>
I hope that our modern reactors are better secured than that, because
$DEITY knows that we've still got lusers.
--
Shalom
Joe Bednorz
>Shalom Septimus <drug...@pobox.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 19:47:59 GMT, Jove <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> >http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/18949
>
>Hm.
>
>Download this ebook for free
>Format Compression Size
>HTML none 90 KB
>HTML zip 273 KB
>
>That's a usage of the term "compression" that I'm quite unfamilar
>with...
>
The zipped html has the original illustrations. Very nice for
"Omilingual."
--
SteveD
It is part of the BOFH's curse to never know peas.
Chris Suslowicz
"Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>_ALL_ the gripes and bitches about _everything_ came out. Case in point:
>imagine being up on station for a week, and having apricots for dessert
>for multiple meals without an intervening spacewalk: lots of rich, chunky,
>apricot-scented farts. The Crew Were Not Amused.
In "Unbroken"[1] the initial set of rations included a consignment of
of cabbage, which was hastily sent ashore. *Nobody* wanted cabbage on
a submarine....
Chris.
[1] by Alastair Mars (WW2 submarine captain).
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
Chris Suslowicz
GB <gb0...@kickindanuts.threefiddy.com> wrote:
>Gene Cash <gc...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in news:r6vgtx...@cfl.rr.com:
>> And of course this is because the page assumes an 800px wide browser.
>
> FWLIW, it *almost* returns to black text on a white background when
>one's browser is stretched across the full width of two 1280px wide
>displays.
>
> Almost.
So /that's/ why the Znpvagbfu Dhvpxqenj? address space is 9 feet square.
I'd often wondered.
Chris
--
If a thoroughly plonked troll enters a newsgroup, does it make a sound?
Kenneth Brody
>
> The Antikythera device has been more thoroughly reverse
> engineered.
>
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7119/abs/nature05357.html
>
> I wonder how Monkly the priest who used it was.
FYI:
http://www.antikythera-mechanism.gr/
--
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------+
| Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | #include |
| kenbrody/at\spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | <std_disclaimer.h> |
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------+
Don't e-mail me at: <mailto:ThisIsA...@gmail.com>
Dave
Lionel <use...@imagenoir.com> wrote:
> On the bright side, there's a bit of stuff tagged as "science fiction"
> there, including a rare treat for our mathematically-inclined monks:
> "Flatland" - the classic tale by A. Square.
Hmm - I read an odd modern retelling of that years ago when I was a kid
in the 80's. Something about a CS department 'discovering' a 2D
universe in a AI prog they forgot to turn off. No maths, but the
pictures were nice.
Can't for the life of me remember what the hell it was called.
Dave
--
millibrachiate tentacular coelenterates..
Jed Davis
> Lionel <use...@imagenoir.com> wrote:
>
>> On the bright side, there's a bit of stuff tagged as "science fiction"
>> there, including a rare treat for our mathematically-inclined monks:
>> "Flatland" - the classic tale by A. Square.
>
> Hmm - I read an odd modern retelling of that years ago when I was a kid
> in the 80's. Something about a CS department 'discovering' a 2D
> universe in a AI prog they forgot to turn off. No maths, but the
> pictures were nice.
I ran across a copy of that too, once...
> Can't for the life of me remember what the hell it was called.
"The Planiverse", I seem to recall, and the Internet agrees with me.
--
(let ((C call-with-current-continuation)) (apply (lambda (x y) (x y)) (map
((lambda (r) ((C C) (lambda (s) (r (lambda l (apply (s s) l)))))) (lambda
(f) (lambda (l) (if (null? l) C (lambda (k) (display (car l)) ((f (cdr l))
(C k))))))) '((#\J #\d #\D #\v #\s) (#\e #\space #\a #\i #\newline)))))
Chris Suslowicz
Lionel <use...@imagenoir.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 18:07:24 +0000, chris...@suslowicz.org (Chris
>Suslowicz) wrote:
>
>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/31/a2083231.shtml
>
>Nice intro:
>"Gopshall Hall, Twycross, was an incredibly lonely place, and resident
>students impressed this on the new intakes by greeting them in the
>drive by swinging from the trees and making simian noises."
>
>Reminds me of several former orkplaces, now that I think about it.
What makes this more amusing is that Twycross is now famous for
its _Zoo_, which includes one of Europe's best collections of
mokneys and apes. (The zoo opened in 1963, however....)
Chris.
--
> Yes, but the only place it's made is still tillamook.or.us.
Sounds more like a device where molten cheese is accellerated
to near lightspeed before colliding with high purity toast.
-- Garrett Wollman and Geoff Lane (on Tillamook cheese).
Dave
Jed Davis <jd...@panix.com> wrote:
> Dave <jrz...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz> writes:
>
> > Can't for the life of me remember what the hell it was called.
>
> "The Planiverse", I seem to recall, and the Internet agrees with me.
That was it! I'll have to see if the local library has a copy. Much
thanks.
Jasper Janssen
wrote:
>Gene Cash <gc...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in news:hcwcp6...@cfl.rr.com:
>> And of course it's always fun to read about the 2,400 bits/sec
>> "high-speed" communication links between major NASA computer centers.
>
> Pretty amazing considering that it was a good 15+ years before
>those speeds were available to consumers.
They may have just thrown more copper pairs at the problem, though,
nobody's saying it was a single line.
Jasper
Brian Kantor
>>those speeds were available to consumers.
>They may have just thrown more copper pairs at the problem, though,
>nobody's saying it was a single line.
There sure were a lot of 20x series modems on 4-wire leased lines
around here in the late 60's. The 202 dataset was 1200 bps and
was introduced circa 1958, and the 201B was 2400 bps from about
1960. Huge ugly monsters but they worked, and some of them are
still in service to this day, $deity knows why. Arrgh.
- Brian
Alan J Rosenthal
[...]
>the Internet agrees with me.
Does that mean that you can eat it without vomiting?
-- aj "hard to swallow" r
Bob Vaughan
In article <org6n2hhst38r95hk...@4ax.com>,
Jasper Janssen <jas...@jjanssen.org> wrote:
>
>What he said. There's a cartoon[1] book out there in which the
>archeologists of the time conclude that before the Great Mail Order
>Catalogue Catastrophe in which the previous civilisation buried itself,
>there were lots of altars (the only thing that survived in great numbers)
>at which we worshipped with various ceremonial objects, things like toilet
>brushes and bog roll holders...
>
>
>Jasper
>
>[1] As in political cartoon, in style.
There is a book called Motel of Mysteries by David MaCaulay that takes
a look back from an archeologists perspective at the remains of a 1980's
vintage motel. It's a graphical novel, nominally targeted at kids, but
fun reading for all..
The illustrations in David MaCaulay's books are wonderful drawings.
He has a number of other books in the same style, covering
the building of the pyramids, the Empire State Building, a roman city,
cathedrals, mosques, and underground construction (utilities, etc) under
a typical city.
http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/authors/macaulay
--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --
--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --
Koos van den Hout
For the Apollo 11 mission they threw a lot of copper pairs at the problem,
resulting in a massive phone bill .. and some last minute hacking to have
everything running at The Moment.
Read http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/camelot-on-the-moon.html for details.
Koos
--
The Virtual Bookcase, the site about books, book | Koos van den Hout
news and reviews http://www.virtualbookcase.com/ | http://idefix.net/~koos/
PGP keyid DSS/1024 0xF0D7C263 or RSA/1024 0xCA845CB5| Fax +31-30-2817051
Chris Suslowicz
Jasper Janssen <jas...@jjanssen.org> wrote:
Point to point 4-wire links aren't /that/ old, shirley? I remember
GPO 300 baud modems, all discrete components, then the march of
technology with the 600, 600/1200 and 1200/2400 ones. Those were
all POTS dialup. For leased line you got 2400 then 4800 and 9600
followed by Kilostream and Megastream (at *huge* prices).
The TV link for the moon landing required serious advance planning
and aggregation of virtually the _entire_ europe-USA high-speed
circuits.
Chris.
--
I am armed, dangerous, and filled with road rage on the information
superhighway. -- Shiksaa, posting in news.admin.net-abuse.email
Dave
chris...@suslowicz.org (Chris Suslowicz) wrote:
> The TV link for the moon landing required serious advance planning
> and aggregation of virtually the _entire_ europe-USA high-speed
> circuits.
It's a bit easier these days, I gather. A brother of a friend of mine
made his pile buying all the spare satellite time he could find for
decades in advance for particular weeks during leap years and then
selling them on to TV networks for big profits a year or two before the
relevant Olympic games took place.
Stuart Lamble
> --
> -- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
> Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
> | P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
> -- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --
>
> --
> -- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
> Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
> | P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
> -- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --
Paging C. Speed. C. Speed to the white courtesy phone, please.
--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
Graham Reed
> ...and then there's those damn Apple/Atari/Commodore flippy disks.
The Commie ones are easy. I just need a way of connecting a 1541 or a
1571-II to Something Newer and Bob's my uncle.
Round Tuits and Copious Free Time are needed too, of course.
--
Some people are just too fussy. Me, I'd just be happy that I got
quoted by someone. Perhaps I'm becoming too easy to please or
something.
-- AndyC in the Monastery
Peter Corlett
[...]
> This probably falls into the category of "everybody thinks the press isn't
> too bad until it reports on a story that they personally know something
> about."
As several editors' bitch, and having dabbled in a bit of scribbling myself,
I can confirm that many journalists don't know the first thing about what
they write for. While some are quite knowledgable and passionate about their
subject and whose discourse is elegant and *delicious* to read, that doesn't
tend to sell papers as well as a pair of tits on the front page.
> Find a 15-year-old and ask him or her to operate a dial telephone.
Hmm, I bet they'd figure it out after a few tries. They're probably still
trying to send a text with it though.
> Find a 20-year-old and ask him or her to operate a slide rule.
I think you'll find that *most* people can't operate slide rules, even those
who grew up before the seventies and relatively cheap electronic
calculators. I got my paws on one out of curiosity and figured it out from
first principles[0], but I still wouldn't like to commit to any answers it
might get.
> Find a 25-year-old and give him or her an "All-American Five" tube radio,
> with one burned-out tube (open filament). See if he or she can identify
> the problem.
An all-what? My *mother's* first radio had transistors in it. It cost five
pounds, or a fortnight's wages. The owner of the shop wanted to call my
father to check that she hadn't stolen the money off him.
Interestingly, I also bought a radio recently - well, actually I paid 50p
for a copy of the Evening Substandard so I could get the radio that came
free with it. Unsurprisingly, the radio was opened up first. 50p is *just*
about the smallest coin I will bother to bend down and pick up if I drop it.
(Unsurprisingly, the Substandard radio was quickly tuned to Radio 4 - or at
least an attempt was made. It turns out that you can't get Radio 4 on the
tube, not even on the overground bits, due to all the electrical hash from
the traction unit. I bet Marconi didn't have to suffer that.)
[0] Youngsters who have never even seen one may be surprised to discover
that they're not *just* two rulers with a logarithmic scale that sit
aside each other. It surprised me to discover this, anyway.
Alan J Rosenthal
>Format Compression Size
>HTML none 90 KB
>HTML zip 273 KB
>
>That's a usage of the term "compression" that I'm quite unfamilar
>with...
It's an easy theorem using the "pigeonhole principle" that any lossless
compression method which makes at least one file smaller, makes at least one
file larger.
(abg gb vzcyl gung gung'f jung'f tbvat ba urer, ohg vg'f gehr)
Chris Suslowicz
Roger Burton West <ro...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>Graham Reed wrote:
>
>>The Commie ones are easy. I just need a way of connecting a 1541 or a
>>1571-II to Something Newer and Bob's my uncle.
>
>It's SCSI, after all. Says so in the documentation and everything.
Sure is wasn't something baroque like IEE-488 interfrotz? Or was
that only the PET?
>Why, no, it's complete coincidence that I happen to be inside this
>blast-proof room just now. Run along.
Ha!
Chris.
--
You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats, press 1 or say "Goats"
reed...@rice.edu
> In article <20061206103928....@firedrake.org>,
> Roger Burton West <ro...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>
>>Graham Reed wrote:
>>
>>>The Commie ones are easy. I just need a way of connecting a 1541 or a
>>>1571-II to Something Newer and Bob's my uncle.
>>
>>It's SCSI, after all. Says so in the documentation and everything.
>
> Sure is wasn't something baroque like IEE-488 interfrotz? Or was
> that only the PET?
IEE-488 baroque? Well, how about 'a baroque _serial_ version of
IEE-488'? That's what ISTR, so it's actually just a SMP: bit banging a
parallel port, if nothing else, should do it. I'll leave you^W Graham to
giggle after the required specs.
Ross
Robert Sneddon
reed...@rice.edu writes
>On 2006-12-06, Chris Suslowicz <chris...@suslowicz.org> wrote:
>> Sure is wasn't something baroque like IEE-488 interfrotz? Or was
>> that only the PET?
>
>IEE-488 baroque?
It's certainly something I've never heard of. Now IEEE-488, yuppers,
soitanly. The first microprocessor ICE I worked on was a UC64000 which
had a massive 10Mb hard drive connected via HP-IB (aka IEEE-488) as its
main store. The Commode Pest used IEEE-488 for peripherals -- as I
recall it also ended up as a lab-rat bench tool because of that
connector although I believe it wasn't a complete implementation but a
bit cut-down (the Pest couldn't do the disconnect-reconnect thing to
reallocate bus masters on the fly, it always had to be master). It did a
fine job controlling HP lab and electronic bench kit as a datalogger and
general "run this while I piss off for a quick pint" pseudo-PFY.
One word of warning -- don't let it run your UHV kit pump-down over the
weekend, at least not without putting in a water-coolant-loop failure
sensor. Like the guys on the floor above my office did (and didn't).
> Well, how about 'a baroque _serial_ version of
>IEE-488'? That's what ISTR, so it's actually just a SMP: bit banging a
>parallel port, if nothing else, should do it.
Most parallel interfaces got a serial variant bolted onto them at some
time. I don't recall an official serial HP-IB but I can't see much
difficulty in someone building their own custom version to run long-line
data paths over cheap twisted pair. It's not like HP-IB was particularly
fast, after all (1Mb/s max, I think, and limited by the slowest device
on the chain).
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Mike Andrews
> It's certainly something I've never heard of. Now IEEE-488, yuppers,
> soitanly. The first microprocessor ICE I worked on was a UC64000 which
> had a massive 10Mb hard drive connected via HP-IB (aka IEEE-488) as its
> main store. The Commode Pest used IEEE-488 for peripherals -- as I
> recall it also ended up as a lab-rat bench tool because of that
> connector although I believe it wasn't a complete implementation but a
> bit cut-down (the Pest couldn't do the disconnect-reconnect thing to
> reallocate bus masters on the fly, it always had to be master). It did a
> fine job controlling HP lab and electronic bench kit as a datalogger and
> general "run this while I piss off for a quick pint" pseudo-PFY.
> One word of warning -- don't let it run your UHV kit pump-down over the
> weekend, at least not without putting in a water-coolant-loop failure
> sensor. Like the guys on the floor above my office did (and didn't).
Ooooooooooopsie! It doesn't much matter whether the "V above expands
to "Voltage" or to "Vacuum"; in either case, it could be ... well,
_messy_.
So did they wind up with diffusion pump oil and/or backing pump oil
all over hellandgone, or did the smoke in some high-joltage gear get
let out, or something else? (Specify: _____________________________)
--
"You are a _guest_ here, and an uninvited one at that. Stop
behaving as if you were the landlord."
-- A former boss, who was both brilliant and eloquent.
Robert Sneddon
<mi...@mikea.ath.cx> writes
>> One word of warning -- don't let it run your UHV kit pump-down over the
>> weekend, at least not without putting in a water-coolant-loop failure
>> sensor. Like the guys on the floor above my office did (and didn't).
>
>Ooooooooooopsie! It doesn't much matter whether the "V above expands
>to "Voltage" or to "Vacuum";
It was a MegaLovelace-class ultra-high vacuum system for doing
interesting things with individual charged atoms. Pumping it down into
the microtorr region usually took a couple of days from 100kPa (assuming
no leaks) and the three-stage (roughing mechanical, oil and finally
mercury) pumps relied on a water-cooling system which was topped off
from the mains water feed. When the loop failed somewhere the mains
continued to top up the water pump reservoir. Said water pump merrily
emptied it all over the lab floor until it found its way into the floor
voids and thence into my office directly below. All weekend.
>So did they wind up with diffusion pump oil and/or backing pump oil
>all over hellandgone,
Their kit was actually OK-ish as I recall; the mains water did its job
of keeping the pumps within working temperature range before it soaked
my desk, all my papers, a shedload of library books and other valuables.
Jasper Janssen
<mailer...@canismajor.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In <7t79n29m9um30usac...@4ax.com>, Jasper Janssen
><jas...@jjanssen.org> said
>>They may have just thrown more copper pairs at the problem, though,
>>nobody's saying it was a single line.
>
>I doubt they were talking 'pairs'... more likely a coax with
>interestingly-untable equalisation-amplifiers stuffed full of
>6AK5 tubes on the end and every few miles along the path...
Hmm.. I have no real knowledge, but by the end of the 60s, I'd have
expected transistor-based stuff across phone lines (or
near-phone-line-leased-lines) to be the standard, at least for bleeding
edge stuff of the time. But if you say they were using hollow-state still,
that's certainly possible.
Jasper
Richard Bos
> In a previous article, SteveD <use...@vo.id.au> said:
> >On 30 Nov 2006 22:00:55 -0500, Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu>
> >wrote:
> >>So really, you don't want too many of them built, and the smith who made
> >>it can be assigned many other projects when he is done with this one.
> >
> >Never has "assigned [to] other projects" sounded so ominous.
>
> "You'll have an important role in our long term strategy. We need you for
> a vital part of the manufacture of Damascus steel swords. Or rather, one
> particular sword."
>
> (Isn't it Damascus steel that folklore had it that it was quenched by
> plunging into the body of a slave?)
Is it? I thought that was katana. Maybe it's both.
Richard
Jasper Janssen
Corlett) wrote:
><mrob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> Find a 25-year-old and give him or her an "All-American Five" tube radio,
>> with one burned-out tube (open filament). See if he or she can identify
>> the problem.
>
>An all-what? My *mother's* first radio had transistors in it. It cost five
>pounds, or a fortnight's wages. The owner of the shop wanted to call my
>father to check that she hadn't stolen the money off him.
My mother's first radio was a Philips kit. 2 Germanium-in-black-plastic
transistors, a changeable C and changeable R-with-switch for tuning and
volume, and a crystal earphone, all built onto a piece of plastic with
holes in it plus a few pieces of metal for the sides to hold in those big
C and Rs, plus a cardboard covering. Sold more as a toy than as
cheaper-than-a-regular-radio, I think, although it was that as well.
Ah, here it is: http://www.hansotten.com/philipsjunior2.html
The first version, when they had just come out. The Junior 1 has no
transistors and no power supply, the Jr 2 has the two transistors and a
battery, and the IIa optional kit turned a 2 into a 3 with loudspeaker and
*three* whole transistors.
Jasper
Brian Kantor
According to my mother, her first radio was home made, which I can
easily believe, as her father (my grandpa) worked for Lee DeForest
and may well have hand-blown his own vacuum tubes.
His amateur radio callsign was 2RH.
The first radio I remember having was a Hallicrafters S-38, which
had metal tubes/valves in it. I used to listen to the Los Angeles
PD dispatcher on an HF frequency just above the broadcast band.
Somewhere around my freshman year in college I got rid of the thing
-- too bad, now they're a collectable.
I feel *old*.
- Brian