A PepsiCo University
D. Joseph Creighton
Oh, woe for me and my Coke[0] addiction...
This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending machines,
and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way for
the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
I'm now trucking in pallets of Coke and filling up the mini-fridge in my
office. In walking the halls with Coke in hand, I was asked four times
in one day where I had obtained the contraband soft drink.
I sense a revolution...
- Joe
[0] (tm)
--
"In Cyberspace, everybody can hear you scream -- or hawk your product." - Anon
http://www.ee.umanitoba.ca/~djc/
D. Joseph Creighton [ESTP] | Programmer Analyst, Database Technologies, IST
Joe_Cr...@UManitoba.CA | University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Tkil
>>>>> "djc" == D Joseph Creighton <d...@cc.umanitoba.ca> writes:
djc> This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending
djc> machines, and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will
djc> be this way for the next ten years (more than likely to encompass
djc> the 1999 PanAm Games).
>>>>> "sean" == Sean Ennis <en...@escape.ca> writes:
sean> And I bet the Pepsi-Nazi's sold out for a score-board or
sean> something like that.
you mean there's more than one university that got raped that way?
at new mexico state u (hi erik!), coke got the exclusive contract.
what did we get in return? an instantaneous +0.05$ price increment, a
new fitness center for athletes only, and a pixel display sign which
alternates between time, temp, current events, and coke ads. (but
mostly coke ads).
we were walking bowlegged for weeks.
t.
--
Tkil <tk...@scrye.com> emacs evangelist, hopelessly hopeless romantic
"Like brittle things that break before they bend"
-- The Sisters Of Mercy, _Floodland_, "Driven Like The Snow" [1987]
Sean Ennis
Hey Joe...,
d...@cc.umanitoba.ca (D. Joseph Creighton) writes:
]This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending machines,
]and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way for
]the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
I bet the student council is filled with English Majors and Pre-Law
Peeep-see scum. And I bet the Pepsi-Nazi's sold out for a score-board or
something like that.
]I'm now trucking in pallets of Coke and filling up the mini-fridge in my
]office. In walking the halls with Coke in hand, I was asked four times
]in one day where I had obtained the contraband soft drink.
From what I gather, there's comp-sci and engineering students hauling around
their own private stashes of the forbiden drink all day. Now the big question
is... does Mrs. L's still sell Jolt? (much more effective than Coke, but it's
an aquired taste)
Sean
Nick Cuccia
In article <5bgdb2$s1s$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
D. Joseph Creighton <d...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
>[University of Manitoba] is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending
>machines, and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way
>for the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
_Adbusters Quarterly_ did a recent efforts of some UBC students to smuggle
Coke in after the campus became a PepsiCo subsidiary.
Even if you don't agree with their politics, _Adbusters_ has the BOFH sprit.
I highly recommend it. [6.02e23]
--Nick
[6.02e23] And no, this is not useful information.
--
Nick Cuccia -- Brewer. Singer. Photographer. Geek.
cuc...@talamasca.com http://www.talamasca.com/~cuccia/
God is the ultimate file server. -- Rabbi Block
Paul S. Sawyer
In article <1997011422...@DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US> Mike.A...@dsibm.okladot.state.ok.us writes:
>In article <5bgdb2$s1s$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
>
>
>>This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending machines,
>>and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way for
>>the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
A similar thing happened here, except Coke is it.... Even the TackyBel
in the Student Union has Coke, nice irony there.
>I gather someone in Admin. got a Really Good Deal, or maybe
>an Offer He Couldn't Refuse [Twice]. Hmmmmmmmm.
Things can't happen that way at public universities....[1]
[1] So they tell us.[2]
[2] And we listen, don't we?[3]
[3] Was that a rhetorical question?[4]
[4] What is a rhetorical question?[4]
--
Paul S. Sawyer Paul....@UNH.edu
UNH Telecommunications and Technical Services Voice: +1 603 862 3262
50 College Road FAX: +1 603 862 4545
Durham, New Hampshire 03824-3523
Paul Lambert
D. Joseph Creighton (d...@cc.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
: Oh, woe for me and my Coke[0] addiction...
: This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending machines,
: and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way for
: the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
: I'm now trucking in pallets of Coke and filling up the mini-fridge in my
: office. In walking the halls with Coke in hand, I was asked four times
: in one day where I had obtained the contraband soft drink.
: I sense a revolution...
Penn State University (a joint venture of Pepsi Cola Corporation and
International Business Machines, Incorporated), did this a couple years
back. They sold out for about $7 mil. It is funny how a "public"
university can do things like this. They need to be shot.
Most of the town (State College, PA. Can you guess how big it is from the
name?) serves Pepsi. It's actually pretty hard to find Coke in the
restaurants there. Everyone I mention this to that still lives there
says, "Naw, plenty of places serve Coke. Like, um. Well. McDonald's."
Which considering the town consists of 35,000 students, 15,000
restaurants, and 3 residents, is pretty sad. (Wendy's has Coke, and
so do a couple smaller pizza places. Not much else downtown.)
It's a disease. I can't wait, though, until Coke finishes up buying the
rest of the world and turns its attention back to the States. Heh.
--Paul L.
Carey
On 14 Jan 1997 20:29:35 -0700, Tkil <tk...@scrye.com> wrote:
[snip]
>you mean there's more than one university that got raped that way?
>
>at new mexico state u (hi erik!), coke got the exclusive contract.
>what did we get in return? an instantaneous +0.05$ price increment, a
>new fitness center for athletes only, and a pixel display sign which
>alternates between time, temp, current events, and coke ads. (but
>mostly coke ads).
Something like that must have happened at Canterbury. All the Pepsi
machines on campus disappeared over the course of a week or so, and
prices later went up from $1 to $1.20 in all the Coke machines.
Fortunately for me, there are still some independent machines which sell
Mountain Dew for $1. One of them (last time I looked) was selling both
Coke and Mountain Dew. It's just a short walk from the computer science
building.
--
Carey Evans <*> c.e...@student.canterbury.ac.nz
"As a concept, virtual reality seems to appeal
to people who spend a lot of time indoors." - Gregory Benford
Jason Lindquist
gmas...@csn.net (Gary Masters) writes:
>A true BOFH would start selling Coke out of his fridge for slightly less
>that the price of a Pepsi from a machine.
>We started selling stuff from our fridge 'cause the luser vending
>contractor can't keep the fscking machines working.
Sounds like something a few student computing clubs I've heard of have
done. Imagine the absurdity of not only jacking up the cost of a can
of pop from 50 to 60 cents, but claiming the increase would support
improved service! Improved, feh! The goddamned machines STILL sit
empty for days straight, particularly during finals week and when
major MPs are due.
JL
--
Jason A. Lindquist "Inform the crew that anyone who laughs
li...@uiuc.edu <*> will answer to me, personally."
=================================NOTE==================================
Senders of unsolicited commercial/propaganda e-mail subject to fees.
Details at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/jlindqui
Seth Breidbart
In article <5bkeqn$g...@news-2.csn.net>, Gary Masters <gmas...@csn.net> wrote:
>In article <5bgdb2$s1s$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
> d...@cc.umanitoba.ca (D. Joseph Creighton) writes:
>>
>>I'm now trucking in pallets of Coke and filling up the mini-fridge in my
>>office. In walking the halls with Coke in hand, I was asked four times
>>in one day where I had obtained the contraband soft drink.
>
>that the price of a Pepsi from a machine.
No, a true BOFH would sell Pepsi for slightly less than the price of a
Pepsi from the machine, and Coke for slightly more.
Seth [LART them all; let fsck sort them out.]
D. Joseph Creighton
Nick Cuccia <cuc...@motherhouse.Talamasca.COM> wrote:
}D. Joseph Creighton <d...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
}>machines, and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way
}>for the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
}
}Coke in after the campus became a PepsiCo subsidiary.
Ooo. That would be interesting to check out.
Although I would have been far happier[1] if this university went Coke, it
would only be proper[2] to let commerce work its own evil agendas without
having a public institution foist a choice upon you.
- Joe
[1] To the point of being smug. I mean, Coke _is_ the better product...
[2] Capitalist?
--
"Hitch your wagon to a star." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Derick Siddoway
: This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending machines,
: and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way for
: the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
That happened to me while I was away for the summer. Came back and, lo! no
more Coke products. Made the Mountain Dew addicts happy, but ticked off the
rest of us. My personal habit is Dr Pepper[1].
: I'm now trucking in pallets of Coke and filling up the mini-fridge in my
: office. In walking the halls with Coke in hand, I was asked four times
: in one day where I had obtained the contraband soft drink.
: I sense a revolution...
We thought so, too. The Electrical Engineering department even bought an
old Coke machine and they keep it stocked. Sell it for 10 cents cheaper
than the licit machines. The Computer Center keeps a stocked refrigerator,
but they sell at the same price. Lots of little wet-bar style refrigerators
popped up all over campus in staff & faculty offices, filled with Coke
products. There was a big uproar in the student newspaper. Eventually
whoever is in charge of such things publicly said that Pepsi gave them a
better deal.[2] Damn mercenaries.
: [0] (tm)
[1] Note the appropriate lack of a period following the 'D' and 'r'.
[2] I read somewhere once that the total cost to the soda company is
something like 3 cents per can, including distribution, etc. They sell
around here for 50 cents out of the machines. If we take a very
conservative estimate that 10k people have one soda per day (that's one from
every four people), then that's nearly $5,000 *per*day*. Surely Coke can
take some of that and make the university happy...
--
Derick Siddoway
Computer Flunky
University Hospital Will Rogers never met Rush Limbaugh.
University of Utah
Geoff. Lane
In article <5bj58b$g...@mozz.unh.edu>,
pa...@senex.unh.edu (Paul S. Sawyer) writes:
> A similar thing happened here, except Coke is it.... Even the TackyBel
> in the Student Union has Coke, nice irony there.
I don't understand. How is it in the `land of the free' a supplier can
restrict a compeditors access to the market place.
ObLuser: Not so long ago, in the UK, a number of people were crushed under
Coke machines because they had heard the urban legend that they would give
free cans if tipped over a few degrees. Evolution in action?
--
Geoff. Lane. | | http://twirl.mcc.ac.uk/
Please Tell Me if you Don't Get This Message
Craig Falconer
Carey (c.e...@student.canterbury.ac.nz) wrote:
: Fortunately for me, there are still some independent machines which sell
: Mountain Dew for $1. One of them (last time I looked) was selling both
: Coke and Mountain Dew. It's just a short walk from the computer science
: building.
That vending machine is privately owned. (ie, by a human, not a company)
I've seen people walk from the other side of the university to use that
machine. Isn't it refreshing to support free enterprise, rather than a
multi-national corporation :)
(I like Coke and Fanta and MD and Royal Crown Draught Cola and Jolt) (I've
never seen Dr Peppers in this country (am I missing out on anything?))
--
--
Criggie the Wierd! "They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' them, they outvoted me." - Nathaniel Lee on being
consigned to a mental institution, circa 17th c.
- Unsolicited or commercial email and spam costs you $100 NZ per line -
Jason Lindquist
mac...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Matthew Sams) writes:
>[1] like Coca-Cola doesn't deal with totalitarian governments.
Of course they do. They've signed agreements with Universities,
haven't they?
Donal Cunningham
der...@valinor.med.utah.edu (Derick Siddoway) writes:
> That happened to me while I was away for the summer. Came back and, lo! no
> more Coke products. Made the Mountain Dew addicts happy, but ticked off the
> rest of us. My personal habit is Dr Pepper[1].
Hallelujah! A fellow addict! I have to ask visiting British friends to bring
it over with them, 'cos it hasn't been released here. Northern Ireland,
yes, but down here, no.
Mind you, the SU shop is selling Irn Bru in cans...mmmmmm....\-)
D.
Mark P. Beckman
On 16 Jan 1997, Peter Radcliffe wrote:
> D. Joseph Creighton <d...@cc.umanitoba.ca> probably said:
> >Oh, woe for me and my Coke[0] addiction...
>
> *stands up*
> My name is Peter, and I'm a Coke addict.[0]
My name is Mark, and I'm also a Coke addict.[1]
> >I sense a revolution...
>
> I wonder if we can get into the Jargon file:
>
> Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the
> wall when the revolution comes.
Nope. Keep with the thread:
Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who will
the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
[1] Up to 2-2.5 liters per 15-17 hour day now.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dementia has already set in...and | bo...@visi.com
it's only Monday morning. |-------------------------------------
--John N., Cow-Orker[1] | This is an empty space.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] WARNING!! Orking cows may be illegal in some areas!!
D. Joseph Creighton
Derick Siddoway <der...@valinor.med.utah.edu> wrote:
}D. Joseph Creighton (d...@cc.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
}: Oh, woe for me and my Coke[0] addiction...
}
}: This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending machines,
}: and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way for
}: the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
}
}more Coke products. Made the Mountain Dew addicts happy, but ticked off the
}rest of us. My personal habit is Dr Pepper[1].
A foul concoction indeed... you have my sympathies.
}: I'm now trucking in pallets of Coke and filling up the mini-fridge in my
}: office.
[ deletia ]
}... Eventually
}whoever is in charge of such things publicly said that Pepsi gave them a
}better deal.[2] Damn mercenaries.
No doubt. I've heard similar stories here.
However, for the Pepsi folks around here this has turned out to be quite
a nice deal: the new machines vend the ~600 ml screw top plastic bottles
for only two bits more than the ~350 ml aluminum cans ($1.00).
Price wise, this is a fair shake indeed.
However, now the recycling group on campus isn't too happy: it seems they
got some 45 cents per (unrecalled weighted measure) for the aluminum and
just one or two cents per (unrecalled weighted measure) for the plastic,
the latter of which also seems to be harder to find buyers for.
- Joe
[0,1,2] > /dev/null
--
"Profanity is the one language all programmers understand." -- Anon.
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, zza...@swirl.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff. Lane) said:
>In article <5bj58b$g...@mozz.unh.edu>,
> pa...@senex.unh.edu (Paul S. Sawyer) writes:
>> A similar thing happened here, except Coke is it.... Even the TackyBel
>> in the Student Union has Coke, nice irony there.
>
>I don't understand. How is it in the `land of the free' a supplier can
>restrict a compeditors access to the market place.
A university is not an open marketplace. By your logic, I could compel you to
sell my new diet drink "Mule Piss Soda" out of your living room because to do
otherwise would restrict my access to the market place.
--
Paul Tomblin (ptom...@xcski.com), Rochester Flying Club
<a href="http://www.servtech.com/public/ptomblin/rfc.html">RFC Web Page</a>
RFC is selling one of our PA28-181 Piper Archer IIs. Contact me for details.
Mark P. Beckman
On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Mark Stapleton wrote:
> Okay.
>
> Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who price-gouge
> totalitarian governments, and who will be the first against the
> wall when the revolution comes.
Perfect. I *love* it.
You know, I wonder how soon it will be before Microsoft buys out
PepsiCo...or visa-versa.[1]
[1] ObMovieSponsor--BTW, has anyone gone into a convienence store
recently, and noticed all the little R2-D2 plastic coolers with PepsiCo
products in them? Hmmm, I wonder who's sponsoring the 20th anniversary of
Star Wars....
Mark Stapleton
In a fit of apathy, "Mark P. Beckman" <bo...@visi.com> wrote:
>On 16 Jan 1997, Peter Radcliffe wrote:
>My name is Mark, and I'm also a Coke addict.[1]
>
>> wall when the revolution comes.
>
>
> the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
Okay.
Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who price-gouge
totalitarian governments, and who will be the first against the
wall when the revolution comes.
--
"For me, the 'Net is a *tactile* experience!"
Mark (mst...@swbell.net)
Matthew Hunt
ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
> sell my new diet drink "Mule Piss Soda" out of your living room
Speaking of that beverage, I have a picture from India in 1959 with a
stret vendor selling "Pee Cola".
If you find this to be useful information, I don't want to know why.
afc...@phrodo.texas.net
In article <32e2c415...@news.swbell.net>,
Mark Stapleton <mst...@swbell.net> wrote:
:In a fit of apathy, "Mark P. Beckman" <bo...@visi.com> wrote:
:>On 16 Jan 1997, Peter Radcliffe wrote:
:>My name is Mark, and I'm also a Coke addict.[1]
:>> Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the
:>> wall when the revolution comes.
:>Nope. Keep with the thread:
:> Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who will
:> the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
:Okay.
:Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who price-gouge
: totalitarian governments, and who will be the first against the
: wall when the revolution comes.
I can't believe it... MS get blamed for everything:
[note - [...] denotes a member of a mailing list of several hundred
subscribers and scioto.dublin.k12.oh.us is a school and not one through
which [...] posts. Apparently postmaster is aliased to network_manager,
who is not aliased to anyone. Real bofhism, but hardly MS's fault]
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:44:00 +0800 (U)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER...@MSMAIL.DUBLIN.K12.OH.US>
To: afc...@texas.net
Subject: Returned Mail
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From: Al Castanoli <afc...@texas.net>
Subject: Try again, [...]
To: [...]@MSMAIL.DUBLIN.K12.OH.US
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[...],
for some reason, Microsoft Mail or Exchange munged your
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--------------------- quote ------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:15:15 +0800 (U)
From: server #96101919 <server_#h#9610...@MSMAIL.DUBLIN.K12.OH.US>
To: afc...@texas.net
Subject: Undeliverable Mail
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--
Al Castanoli | afc...@texas.net | afc...@aia.af.mil
| afn2...@afn.org | ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu
"Computers save time like kudzu prevents soil erosion."
Majdi Abbas
In article <5bj58b$g...@mozz.unh.edu>, Paul S. Sawyer wrote:
>>>This university is now a PepsiCo campus: all services, vending machines,
>>>and the like serve Pepsi products exclusively. It will be this way for
>>>the next ten years (more than likely to encompass the 1999 PanAm Games).
Ugh. Not that bad here yet, but I gather that the Pepsi collective
hasn't made it's move yet, or perhaps We're Not Worthy (tm).
>[4] What is a rhetorical question?[4]
That's a recursive question, not a rhetorical one ;)
--Majdi
John Wakelin
On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:48:45 -0600, "Mark P. Beckman" <bo...@visi.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Mark Stapleton wrote:
>> Okay.
>> Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who price-gouge
>> totalitarian governments, and who will be the first against the
>> wall when the revolution comes.
>Perfect. I *love* it.
YM Prefect. HTH
john
--
A-25177|NCB#116|ENFP|fav.color:sky-blue|motto:go lemmings, go|ObQuote>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"YOU!!! - Out of the gene-pool" - George Carlin
Dan Holdsworth
In article <32e2c415...@news.swbell.net>, mst...@swbell.net
(Mark Stapleton) writes:
:Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who price-gouge
: totalitarian governments, and who will be the first against the
: wall when the revolution comes.
YM:
Micro$loth: A bunch of mindless, Panda-drinking jerks who sell crap for
inflated prices [1] to morons who should know better, and who will be the
first to be drowned in vats of pulped lusers [2] by enraged Sysadmins
when the revolution finally comes...
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java
that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a
warning, it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Dan Holdsworth, dr...@aber.ac.uk **SPAMMERS WILL BE FILTERED**
[1] i.e. any non-zero price.
[2] A nice thought, that. As to how to pulp then, I feel that a Bastard
hybrid of flail mower [3]
[3] The Welsh "Brot" design is my favourite. Picture the deranged imaginings
of a demented Hell's Angel, with a garden roller and a flail mower
somehow entangled with a Harley... [4]
[4] An amazingly effective design, useful for those niggling household
tasks...
Ry Jones
Mark Stapleton (mst...@swbell.net) wrote:
: Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking jerks who price-gouge
: totalitarian governments, and who will be the first against the
: wall when the revolution comes.
Please let my contract at MS end before the revolution...
Folks, working here at MS isn't that bad (as a contractor). I'd hate
to be an employee, but, you know, you must draw the line somewhere.
--
rjo...@halcyon.com
http://www.wicker.com/
Steve Birnbaum
On 22 Jan 1997 01:19:21 GMT, Ry Jones <rjo...@chinook.halcyon.com> wrote:
>Folks, working here at MS isn't that bad (as a contractor). I'd hate
>to be an employee, but, you know, you must draw the line somewhere.
This should be a death penalty crime.
--
Steve Birnbaum - System Administrator, NetMedia. Jerusalem, Israel.
sb...@netmedia.net.il Phone: +972-2-6795860 --Standard Disclaimer--
Boycott Internet Spam! http://www.vix.com/spam/ (PGP key available)
Petro
In article <pde.85...@pentagon.io.com>, Pete Ehlke <p...@io.com> wrote:
::rjo...@coho.halcyon.com (Ry Jones) writes:
::[He works for the Dark Side]
::::of them are running Linux! Life here isn't too bad.
::Ummm... You don't *really* want to go there, do you? I mean, in the last
::two weeks I've taken delivery on ...lessee... eight dual P6-200's, four
::quad P6-200's, two quad P5-166's, and a few assorted single processor
::machines. And I can look myself in the mirror in the morning when I
::shave, 'cause I don't work for Bill.
You hiring?
--
***************** PLEASE TAKE NOTE:
In an effort to reduce the amount of junk mail that I receive, I am no longer
reading email sent to pe...@suba.com. send email to lo...@encodex.com where
login = petro. You send unsoliciated commercial email, and I will kill you.
Ry Jones
Steve Birnbaum (sb...@netmedia.net.il) wrote:
: On 22 Jan 1997 01:19:21 GMT, Ry Jones <rjo...@chinook.halcyon.com> wrote:
: >Folks, working here at MS isn't that bad (as a contractor). I'd hate
: >to be an employee, but, you know, you must draw the line somewhere.
: This should be a death penalty crime.
Hey, don't worry, I'm leaving in the summer for a contract in the Bay.
Nice UNIX & C work, back on the stuff I started on.
Come on, I have 12 PPro 200's with 128MB of ram (each) in my office... some
of them are running Linux! Life here isn't too bad.
Pete Ehlke
rjo...@coho.halcyon.com (Ry Jones) writes:
[He works for the Dark Side]
>Hey, don't worry, I'm leaving in the summer for a contract in the Bay.
>Nice UNIX & C work, back on the stuff I started on.
>Come on, I have 12 PPro 200's with 128MB of ram (each) in my office... some
>of them are running Linux! Life here isn't too bad.
Ummm... You don't *really* want to go there, do you? I mean, in the last
two weeks I've taken delivery on ...lessee... eight dual P6-200's, four
quad P6-200's, two quad P5-166's, and a few assorted single processor
machines. And I can look myself in the mirror in the morning when I
shave, 'cause I don't work for Bill.
--
Pete Ehlke p...@io.com mp...@the.satanic.org p...@tezcat.com
"The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
failed to start because of the following error:
The operation completed successfully." -Windows NT Server v3.51
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, p...@io.com (Pete Ehlke) said:
>rjo...@coho.halcyon.com (Ry Jones) writes:
>>Come on, I have 12 PPro 200's with 128MB of ram (each) in my office... some
>>of them are running Linux! Life here isn't too bad.
>
>Ummm... You don't *really* want to go there, do you? I mean, in the last
>two weeks I've taken delivery on ...lessee... eight dual P6-200's, four
>quad P6-200's, two quad P5-166's, and a few assorted single processor
>machines. And I can look myself in the mirror in the morning when I
>shave, 'cause I don't work for Bill.
Is this a pissing contest? Because where I work we have dozens of SGI boxes,
everything from Onyxes and O2s to Indigos. Probably several million dollars
worth if you consider that we have at least three 8 processor Onyxes that are
several years old when Onyxes started at $750K. And not a WinTel PC in the
lot. Oh, I'm wrong - there is one guy with a Intergraph WNT machine, but he's
working alone.
Too bad Irix 6.2 is so incredibly fucking buggy that we can't get anything
done. Oh, but I hear tonight's build of IL will fix 50% of our problems.
C'yeah, right.
Alistair Young
In <5c3pup$i...@news2.halcyon.com>, rjo...@chinook.halcyon.com (Ry Jones) writes:
>
>Please let my contract at MS end before the revolution...
>
>to be an employee, but, you know, you must draw the line somewhere.
Working at MS automatically qualifies you as a servant of the Cosmic
Dark Forces, though.
ObRPGAside: I wonder if in my WoD game I should introduce Billius,
Urge-Wyrm of Corrupt Software? I bet Win95 just *reeks* of
Wyrm taint...
ObFurtherAside: The players (including some Winlusers) in my Mage game
were quite happy to believe that IBM was controlled by Iteration X,
and the VAs all used Unix, but were a bit surprised to discover that
I had Microsoft set up as a front for the Nephandi...
Alistair "Sell soul to demonic overlord (OK/Cancel/Run screaming)?" Y
--
Arkane Systems Ltd. Sysimperator, dominus retis deusque machinarum.
e-mail: ava...@arkane.demon.co.uk WWW: http://www.arkane.demon.co.uk/
The opinions above ARE my company's, because I OWN it! [Team OS/2]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The solution to a problem changes the problem" - Borroni's Law
Debbie Schwartz
<ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)> trilled in dulcet tones:
>Is this a pissing contest? Because where I work we have dozens of SGI boxes,
>everything from Onyxes and O2s to Indigos. Probably several million dollars
>worth if you consider that we have at least three 8 processor Onyxes that are
>several years old when Onyxes started at $750K. And not a WinTel PC in the
>lot. Oh, I'm wrong - there is one guy with a Intergraph WNT machine, but he's
>working alone.
Normally where I work we're on the trailing edge of technology (my
current group's file server is a Personal Iris 4D/35, okay, stop laughing
*right now*, we're buying an Origin200 this year) but I'm on loan for a
month to a more enlightened division where the brand new shiny
equipment includes:
one 10 processor Origin2000
one Onyx2
8 R10000 Indigo2 Maximum Impacts
and about 20 R4400 Indigo2 Solid Impacts scrounged from another program.
SGI geek heaven. I was tasked with installing and configuring all
the Impacts, but have been doing a lot of looking over the shoulders
of the folks from SGI/Cray who are configuring the Origin.
>Too bad Irix 6.2 is so incredibly fucking buggy that we can't get anything
>done. Oh, but I hear tonight's build of IL will fix 50% of our problems.
>C'yeah, right.
Hey, just do what I did: install a nice smorgasbord of assorted patches
using the "educated guess" technique of selection. So far, so good
(fingers remained crossed, however).
--
Debbie Schwartz d...@halcyon.com Killfiling idiots since 1989.
"I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for
40 years." _Steel Magnolias_
* I do not do business with newsgroup or email spammers. *
Gabriel Krabbe
on 27 Jan 1997 05:10:40 GMT, Ry Jones wrote regarding "A PepsiCo University":
> Petro (pe...@suba.com) wrote:
> : In article <pde.85...@pentagon.io.com>, Pete Ehlke <p...@io.com> wrote:
> : ::rjo...@coho.halcyon.com (Ry Jones) writes:
> : ::[He works for the Dark Side]
>
> Yes I do!
>
> Who shaves? I work for Bill, he doesn't make me shave.
>
> You didn't ask what hardware I have outside my office, but I'll tell
> you anyways.
[yakketty yakketty yak snipped]
wonderful. now if you say that not only is no dress code required (how
awesome. who adheres to such, if present?) but you can actually _keep_
that hardware once you leave, _then_ you might have a valid point of
stopping by billy's place for a day or two.
if not, there is precisely _no_ reason good enough to convince me to
do _anything_ for pico$oft (except for nuking them from orbit). the
reason being the eternal shame tio which i would have put myself.
there remains but one way to redeem yourself: hang yourself in bill's
office, preferably with the printout of nt's bugs. should be more
than adequately long.
--
Gabriel
Micro$oft == quality software and R.McDonald == gourmet cuisine
email will be posted as i see fit.
Petro
In article <5chdcg$k...@news2.halcyon.com>,
Ry Jones <rjo...@coho.halcyon.com> wrote:
>Petro (pe...@suba.com) wrote:
>: In article <pde.85...@pentagon.io.com>, Pete Ehlke <p...@io.com> wrote:
>We are borg, You will be assimilated.
Like hell I will.
That was directed at Pete, not you. I wouldn't work for M$ for all the..
well, it would have to be a LOT of money.
Matthew Crosby
In article <5cgcur$r...@newsread.onramp.net>,
Mark Edwards <medw...@onramp.net> wrote:
>rjo...@chinook.halcyon.com (Ry Jones) wrote:
>
>
>>Folks, working here at MS isn't that bad (as a contractor). I'd hate
>>to be an employee, but, you know, you must draw the line somewhere.
>
>
*shuffle*
*cough*
*blush*
Oh, ok, I'll come out with it.
My name is Matthew, and I worked for Microsoft.
Oh, it wasn`t REALLY Microsoft. It was a large ISP in Virginia that
happened to be contracted to build a particular network for MS.
And I asked to be transfered to the child slavery division, since I
thought my conscience could handle it better. But they wouldn't.
That was the worst of my slide into sysadmin. At that point,
I was adminning every day. Sometimes, I would hide perl scripts
around my house for when I needed them.
Since then, it has all been downhill. My family pretty much abandoned me,
can't say I blame them really. When I would come home every day,
late or not at all, after being down at the "office", building code.
And that led to me how you see me today. Life a wreck. Sysadminning
full time. Thats why I decided I need help, so I came here.
--
Matthew Crosby cro...@cs.colorado.edu
Disclaimer: It was in another country, and besides, the wench is dead.
Scott Packard
In article <5clbfv$9...@lace.colorado.edu>, cro...@nordsieck.cs.colorado.edu
says...
>And that led to me how you see me today. Life a wreck. Sysadminning
>full time. Thats why I decided I need help, so I came here.
>
Buy BMW Z3. Life good. Lusers bad.
Joseph C. King
I still have a TRS-80. I think it might even run.
Remember back to simplier times.
Joe
Seth Breidbart
In article <32ed1...@news.unibw-muenchen.de>,
Gabriel Krabbe <sa...@bofh.studfb.unibw-muenchen.de> wrote:
>there remains but one way to redeem yourself: hang yourself in bill's
>office, preferably with the printout of nt's bugs. should be more
>than adequately long.
You mean, long enough to hang from the ceiling and still provide a
comfortable bed for him to sleep on the floor?
Seth
Craig Falconer
<ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)> trilled in dulcet tones:
>Is this a pissing contest? Because where I work we have dozens of SGI boxes,
>everything from Onyxes and O2s to Indigos. Probably several million dollars
>worth if you consider that we have at least three 8 processor Onyxes that are
>several years old when Onyxes started at $750K. And not a WinTel PC in the
>lot. Oh, I'm wrong - there is one guy with a Intergraph WNT machine, but he's
>working alone.
I have one P75 with 32 meg of ram as a Netware 3.12 server.
I have one P100 with 16 meg of ram as a file sharer (running win95).
I have a digicard server running 30 Macintoshes on system 6.
I will have one linux box... probably a low end 386.
I have 115 PCs, (20x286, 65x3/486, 40xpentiums).
I work 20 hours per week, and I'm *not supposed* to be on call (hah!).
*SCREAM*
--
--
Criggie the Wierd! "They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' them, they outvoted me." - Nathaniel Lee on being
consigned to a mental institution, circa 17th c.
- Unsolicited or commercial email and spam costs you $100 NZ per line -
Malcolm Ray
In article <5cq00p$k...@scream.auckland.ac.nz>,
Peter Gutmann <pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
[poignant negative pissing contest entry removed]
>but luckily the
>version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4.
Wow, good use of irony there! For a moment I thought you'd used the
words 'secure' and 'sendmail' in the same sentence and *meant* it!
BTW, this is *Thursday*. One uses *odd* numbered sendmails on Thursday.
Take care.
--
Malcolm Ray Computer Services, Royal Holloway University of London
+44 1784 443730
Piers Cawley
In article <5cqbld$9co$1...@sun.rhbnc.ac.uk>,
uha...@sun.rhbnc.ac.uk (Malcolm Ray) writes:
> In article <5cq00p$k...@scream.auckland.ac.nz>,
> Peter Gutmann <pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>
> [poignant negative pissing contest entry removed]
>
>>but luckily the
>>version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4.
>
> Wow, good use of irony there! For a moment I thought you'd used the
> words 'secure' and 'sendmail' in the same sentence and *meant* it!
Yeah, they just found the 'send sendmail 8.8.[34] a correctly
formatted MIME message and you can execute an arbitrary shell
command with root privileges' bug. Kewl.
--
Piers Cawley
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) said:
>version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4. Sometimes the drives don't
I don't think you can use "sendmail" and "secure" in the same sentence,
without a negation in there somewhere.
I think you meant to say "we're using a version of sendmail that anybody who's
found the security hole of the week isn't talking".
Peter Gutmann
misc...@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Craig Falconer) writes:
>Pissing contest huh?
>I have one P75 with 32 meg of ram as a Netware 3.12 server.
>I have one P100 with 16 meg of ram as a file sharer (running win95).
>I have a digicard server running 30 Macintoshes on system 6.
>I will have one linux box... probably a low end 386.
>I have 115 PCs, (20x286, 65x3/486, 40xpentiums).
>I work 20 hours per week, and I'm *not supposed* to be on call (hah!).
I have an SX33 dumb terminal with 5MB of free disk space, obtained by
judicious pruning of Win 3.1 DLL's. The main Unix network box is a Sparc 1+
with a monochrome monitor and a mouse that often works. It runs a version of
SunOS so old it has every known Unix security hole ever in it, but luckily the
version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4. Sometimes the drives don't
start up properly after a crash, but you can fix it by power cycling the
box[0]. When we needed a firewall, the boss suggested Slingshot[1]. They let
me use Visual C 1.52. There is a Pepsi vending machine in the corner.
I work from home most days, I'm trying to cut out the one day a week when I
have to attend. Usually I just use it to carry out a continuing paper war
with another guy who also treats the place as a free printing bureau.
Incidentally, from timings for building the code I'm currently working on, my
home box is almost 100 times faster than the maggotbox at work.
Peter.
[0] It stuffs up the SCSI reset in some unsual manner, so you need to power
cycle it so the drives come up before the main board does.
[1] Catapult or whatever it is, the broken MS cacheing proxy thing which has
no known useful purpose except sucking up CPU cycles.
Richard Letts
Peter Gutmann (pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz) wrote:
> with a monochrome monitor and a mouse that often works. It runs a version of
> SunOS so old it has every known Unix security hole ever in it, but luckily the
> version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4. Sometimes the drives don't
>
I confidently expect atleast 12 security problems to be discovered in
sendmail in 1997
RjL
Ben Cantrick (alias Macky Stingray)
>mouse that often works. It runs a version of SunOS so old it has every
>known Unix security hole ever in it, but luckily the version of sendmail
>is new and secure - 8.8.4.
YM "Until next week." HTH.
-Ben
--
"BGC: Because some of us believe women over 14 are still sexy."
=--------- http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~cantrick/home.html -------------=
*Ben Cantrick, diehard BGC otaku and Priss fan. ---> THE BGC DUBS SUCK! <---*
*Mac? Ha. "When I want to spend 50% of my time fighting an OS, I'll use VMS."*
Dan Holdsworth
In article <32eb64c7...@library.airnews.net>,
airnews...@airmail.net (Joe Bramblett) writes:
:On 17 Jan 1997 17:42:06 GMT, pa...@senex.unh.edu (Paul S. Sawyer)
:wrote:
:
:>It has caused some amusing signs to be stuck on the machines -
:especially
:>the wordless one now required which is meant to say "Do not tip
:this
:>machine over on yourself, as it weighs several hundred pounds, and
:is
:>likely to cause you harm" in one icon.
:>
:>We also have signs on wood stoves which say "Hot when in use."
:Duh.
:
:And don't forget the ones on fireworks: Caution; Explosive
:
:Or the fact that Preparation-H (hemorrhoid salve) has to be labeled
:as
:for external use only.
Or the one on the box of a hot-ait paint stripper; "caution, not for use
as a hairdryer".
Gaz (the wolf) suggests that all cars should have words to the effect of
"SOS, get help" painted on the underside, on the grounds that if you can
read them, the driver's in deep shit.
This is a comment on the average person arounds here, in that most of them
actually NEED the instructions to work out what's going on.[1]
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java
that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a
warning, it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Dan Holdsworth, dr...@aber.ac.uk **SPAMMERS WILL BE FILTERED**
[1] Duh... Car on roof in river. Engine revving, driver screaming... Duh,
daft place to park, kids today, <grumble> <complain>...
Clare West
pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) writes:
> version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4. Sometimes the drives don't
I thought 8.8.5 came out a little while ago <ow> I really should store
that LART somewhere safer.
clare
--
Clare West s.k.a. Alianor nic Lawemund
cl...@cs.auckland.ac.nz http://clare.cs.auckland.ac.nz/
Thinking of Maud you forget everything else. -- hack v1.0.3
Who was that Maud person anyway? -- nethack v3.1.0
Derick Siddoway
In a lucid moment, Peter Gutmann babbled :
>I have an SX33 dumb terminal with 5MB of free disk space, obtained by
>judicious pruning of Win 3.1 DLL's. The main Unix network box is a Sparc 1+
>with a monochrome monitor and a mouse that often works. It runs a version of
>SunOS so old it has every known Unix security hole ever in it, but luckily the
>version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4. Sometimes the drives don't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
YM "sendmail is never secure, and my version (8.8.4) has known bugs"
HTH.
>start up properly after a crash, but you can fix it by power cycling the
>box[0]. When we needed a firewall, the boss suggested Slingshot[1]. They let
>me use Visual C 1.52. There is a Pepsi vending machine in the corner.
Okay, we at least have a cafeteria being a hospital, but it's *hospital
food.* For some odd reason, they do sell Dr Pepper in said cafeteria, even
though we're at a PepsiCo University.[1]
--
Derick Siddoway Micro$oft: A bunch of mindless, Pepsi-drinking
Computer Flunky jerks who price-gouge totalitarian governments,
University Hospital and who will be the first against the wall when
University of Utah the revolution comes. (Mark Stapleton in asr)
[1] AusOtherThread: Noted in Time Magazine this week that Pepsi is spinning
off a company to handle the restaraunts (Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, etc) because
Coke is kicking some serious butt in worldwide marketshare. This is
attributed to the fact that Coke freed itself of any non-carbonated products
a while ago, while Pepsi didn't. Presumably this means that Pepsi is ready
to get down and dirty in the cola wars. Hopefully that means we'll have
some price wars and I'll get a whole bunch of cheap Dr Pepper...
Eric Eisenhart
In article <5cqprd$r...@lace.colorado.edu>,
Ben Cantrick (alias Macky Stingray) <cant...@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
-}In article <5cq00p$k...@scream.auckland.ac.nz>,
-}Peter Gutmann <pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
-}>is new and secure - 8.8.4.
-} ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^
-} YM "Until next week." HTH.
YM "Until last week."[1] HTH.
[1] Semi-AutoLART[2]
[2] That could almost be useful, except 8.8.6 is probably going to be
released in a month when they find another hole.
--
Eric Eisenhart
Help, I've gotten stuck in this .sig and I don't know how to get out!
Nuke 'em all and let Kibo grep 'em out.
Mike Buchanon
Boy, those were fun to fix :) I miss those days.
/mtb
On 28 Jan 1997 20:59:01 GMT, Joseph C. King (jk...@chablis.hcf.jhu.edu) spake thus:
: I still have a TRS-80. I think it might even run.
: Remember back to simplier times.
:
: Joe
--
,,,
(. .)
+--oOO--(_)--OOo---------------------------------------------+
Michael Thomas Buchanon --- Computer/Networking Consultant
Home Page URL: http://manetheren.cl.msu.edu/~buchanon/
Brighter the honour hence
+============================================================+
Eric Eisenhart
Dustin Sallings
In article <E4u0y...@xcski.com>, ptom...@xcski.com writes:
> In a previous article, pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) said:
> >version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4. Sometimes the drives don't
>
> I don't think you can use "sendmail" and "secure" in the same sentence,
> without a negation in there somewhere.
>
> I think you meant to say "we're using a version of sendmail that anybody who's
> found the security hole of the week isn't talking".
That's fine though, they did at least release 8.8.5 to get rid
of the hole created in 8.8.3 that is yet another method of gaining root
access remotely.
--
IPA.net Sysadmin My girlfriend asked me which one I like better.
pub 1024/3CAE01D5 1994/11/03 Dustin Sallings <dus...@spy.net>
| Key fingerprint = 87 02 57 08 02 D0 DA D6 C8 0F 3E 65 51 98 D8 BE
L_______________________ I hope the answer won't upset her. ____________
Majdi Abbas
In article <slrn5f2ekq...@valinor.med.utah.edu>, Derick Siddoway wrote:
>Okay, we at least have a cafeteria being a hospital, but it's *hospital
>food.* For some odd reason, they do sell Dr Pepper in said cafeteria, even
>though we're at a PepsiCo University.[1]
Select Beverages makes 7UP and Dr. Pepper.
Coke and Pepsi give distributors and end-users hefty discounts
for not carrying each others products, but they neglect to mention Select
at all -- so, anyone can still gain the benefits of the agreement and carry
Dr. Pepper if they so desire, which is kinda cool.
I won't tell you how much the stuff really costs (yes, I know.)
You'd be disgusted.
Oh for everyone replying to the "new and secure" in reference to
Sendmail 8.8.4 bit, you're not getting the sarcasm in use. Look at the
rest of the passage and settle in to the tone and you may get it.
--Majdi
Luis Fernandes
>>>>> "pgut001" == Peter Gutmann <pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz> writes:
pgut001> I have an SX33 dumb terminal with 5MB of free disk
pgut001> space, obtained by judicious pruning of Win 3.1 DLL's.
Feh!
I'm posting this from a 8MHz Amstrad XT[1] with 640K RAM and EGA
running procomm (the free version that came with an old modem), with
about 5M free on the 20MB hd that has GEM (Kildall's pet); and
talking to a 28.8 GVC modem.
[1]My sister borrowed my other computer (a Compaq 486/50 laptop)
permantly 'cause it conveniently fits on her makeup table[2]. This is
good since I have to layoff keyboards for long periods, being
diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome and all-- too much hacking,
*sigh*.
[2]She's not what you think, she has a honours degree in biochemistry
and is working on her pharmacology degree now...and no, I'm not
forwarding any marriage proposals to her...
Santiago Arraga
In article <5clpal$e...@news.jhu.edu>,
Joseph C. King <jk...@chablis.hcf.jhu.edu> wrote:
>I still have a TRS-80. I think it might even run.
>Remember back to simplier times.
Well, I am still looking for a modem that will
work with my Sinclair Spectrum[1]. Ahh... ASCII uploading
articles written in Tasword II.
Saludos.
[1] Lusers had C64's. I had (have) my Speccy[2].
[2] Still can't end Manic Miner. Working on it, though.
--
Santiago Arraga arr...@hc1.hc.edu.uy
Hospital de Clinicas / Facultad de Medicina.
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And
I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Jeffrey A. Uphoff
"SL" == Stuart Lamble <lam...@silas.cc.monash.edu.au> writes:
SL> Apparently, one of the main Unix programs was written overnight, whilst
SL> the programmers were on a hit of LSD. There are no details as to which
SL> one.
SL> My vote definitely goes to sendmail. I wonder how qmail is coming along...
Why can't everyone just put all of their outgoing messages on WWW pages,
with a different page for each person that you might send mail to, and
then wait for the recipients to look at the pages every now and then to
read the messages?
Seems like the next logical evolutionary step now that ~99% of Internet
lusers think that Usenet is nothing more than the non-clickable part of
the WWW.
Damn, that was a *good* hit of acid!
--Up.
--
Jeff Uphoff - Scientific Programming Analyst | jup...@nrao.edu
National Radio Astronomy Observatory | jup...@bofh.org.uk
Charlottesville, VA, USA | jeff....@linux.org
PGP key available at: http://www.cv.nrao.edu/~juphoff/
Mr Stuart Lamble
Eric Eisenhart (er...@sonic.net) wrote:
: [2] That could almost be useful, except 8.8.6 is probably going to be
: released in a month when they find another hole.
Apparently, one of the main Unix programs was written overnight, whilst
the programmers were on a hit of LSD. There are no details as to which
one.
My vote definitely goes to sendmail. I wonder how qmail is coming along...
--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not
necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going
to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly
overhead. -- RFC1925.
Ofer Inbar
Don Kitchen <d...@cs.byu.edu> writes:
>That's quite useful useless[1] information. It definately explains why the
[...]
>[1] Which is to say, the information is totally useless, about as useless
>as those stupid "This isn't useful" comments, but that as useless information,
>it was surprisingly useful.
Ummm... Useful information is not banned. Useful information *about
system administration* is banned. That's what we're here to escape -
it's all over comp.sys.*, comp.unix.*, comp.os.*[1], and we don't need
it here. But useful information about any other topic is perfectly OK.
-- your helpful newsgroup creator (not that I made up the rules)
[1] Yes, that's contraband info for this newsgroup, sorry!
-- Cos (Ofer Inbar) -- c...@leftbank.com c...@cs.brandeis.edu
-- The Left Bank Operation -- l...@leftbank.com http://www.leftbank.com/
"This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird."
-- Larry Wall in perlref(1) man page, Perl 5.001
Kai Henningsen
ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk (Richard Letts) wrote on 30.01.97 in <5cqoqo$1...@illuin.demon.co.uk>:
> Peter Gutmann (pgu...@cs.auckland.ac.nz) wrote:
> > with a monochrome monitor and a mouse that often works. It runs a version
> > of SunOS so old it has every known Unix security hole ever in it, but
> > luckily the version of sendmail is new and secure - 8.8.4. Sometimes the
> > drives don't
> >
> you aren't keeping up with the CERT alerts -- 8.8.4 has a root exploit.[1]
> I confidently expect atleast 12 security problems to be discovered in
> sendmail in 1997
52.
Kai
--
Internet: k...@khms.westfalen.de
Bang: major_backbone!khms.westfalen.de!kai
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
Kai Henningsen
d...@cs.byu.edu (Don Kitchen) wrote on 02.02.97 in <87hgjv7...@cool.cs.byu.edu>:
> That's quite useful useless[1] information. It definately explains why the
> vending machine in my laundry room sell just about everything known to man
> except *my Sunkist*. (Well, ok, I guess it doesn't sell Inca Cola either)
So what does 'man "my Sunkist"' say?
Kai Henningsen
lam...@silas.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr Stuart Lamble) wrote on 03.02.97 in <5d3mk0$tv2$1...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>:
> My vote definitely goes to sendmail. I wonder how qmail is coming along...
Depends on how many flame wars Dan is in at the moment. Or if he really
goes on to sue people throwing him off mailing lists.
Qmail has some nice features, but somehow I can't bring myself to trust
software written by such an obvious luser. I'm going to try exim (which
also has some nice features).
Anything has to be better than CERT.cf!
Nick Williams
In article <5d7mo4$j...@alexander.ins.cwru.edu>,
Jonathan Stott <jstott...@poly.phys.cwru.edu> wrote:
>>My vote definitely goes to sendmail. I wonder how qmail is coming along...
>
>Last time I checked (OK, the only time I checked) it couldn't get over
>the fact that localhost does not have a domain name. That and the
>author feels free to ignore any parts of the RFC's he finds
>inconvenient (read the THOUGHTS file or the source code). He sounds
>a lot like your typical PC programmer actually...
Funnily, I think the sendmail approach to development is far more
Micro$oft-esque than qmail: you know that there's going to be a new sendmail
to fix a root hack as sure as you know there's going to be a Service Pack
Revision Second Update Patch Doodad for Windows xy.
Cheers,
Nick.
--
[ Nick Williams GSM/SMS - +44-402-373428 ]
[ New College, Oxford Voice - +44-1865-280000 x.21000 ]
[ ni...@thelonious.new.ox.ac.uk http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/~nick ]
D. J. Bernstein
Jonathan Stott <jstott...@poly.phys.cwru.edu> wrote:
> Last time I checked (OK, the only time I checked) it couldn't get over
> the fact that localhost does not have a domain name.
Hmmm. Are you referring to the fact that qmail-inject qualifies
``joe@localhost'' the same way as any other ``joe@blah''? In qmail,
qualification is purely syntactic---I designed qmail to keep local mail
working even if the network goes down. You might try typing ``joe''
instead of ``joe@localhost''.
> That and the
> author feels free to ignore any parts of the RFC's he finds
> inconvenient (read the THOUGHTS file or the source code).
Hmmm. Could you be more specific? Yes, qmail violates the 7-bit
restriction in RFC 821 and RFC 1652. So does sendmail, by default. So
does exim. Users are more important than the IESG.
Other than that, I can't think of what you might be referring to. qmail
is much more careful to obey the RFCs than sendmail is. See
ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/pub/docs/1996-mail-errors.
---Dan
Put an end to unauthorized mail relaying. http://pobox.com/~djb/qmail.html
Alistair Young
In <1997Feb517....@koobera.math.uic.edu>, d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J. Bernstein) writes:
>Hmmm. Could you be more specific? Yes, qmail violates the 7-bit
>restriction in RFC 821 and RFC 1652. So does sendmail, by default. So
>does exim. Users are more important than the IESG.
You're saying this in the scary devil monastery? Standards are much more
important than users. So are revising web pages, reading Usenet, xpilot,
listening to CDs, and picking one's teeth.
Alistair
Anyway, useful information here is Carthage.
--
Arkane Systems Ltd. Sysimperator, dominus retis deusque machinarum.
e-mail: ava...@arkane.demon.co.uk WWW: http://www.arkane.demon.co.uk/
The opinions above ARE my company's, because I OWN it! [Team OS/2]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"On my income tax 1040 it says 'Check this box if you are blind.' I wanted
to put a check mark about three inches away."
- Tom Lehrer
Matthew Sams
In article <5d7mo4$j...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
Jonathan Stott <jstott...@poly.phys.cwru.edu> wrote:
>Last time I checked (OK, the only time I checked) it couldn't get over
>the fact that localhost does not have a domain name. That and the
>author feels free to ignore any parts of the RFC's he finds
>inconvenient (read the THOUGHTS file or the source code). He sounds
>a lot like your typical PC programmer actually...
If I'm not mistaken, the author has the initials DB. If so, when I mentionned
qmail to two friends they both described him as "that arrogant sob..".
At least one of them has met him. The other just heard through word of mouth.
-Matthew
Ryan Tucker
Jonathan Stott (jstott...@poly.phys.cwru.edu), in article <5d7mo4$j...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>, wrote:
: Last time I checked (OK, the only time I checked) it couldn't get over
: the fact that localhost does not have a domain name. That and the
: author feels free to ignore any parts of the RFC's he finds
: inconvenient (read the THOUGHTS file or the source code). He sounds
: a lot like your typical PC programmer actually...
I use a rather interesting series of procmail recipes to handle keeping
a couple mailboxes in sync. They handle roughly 2,000 e-mails a day, most
of which are dropped.
Well, one of the systems switched to qmail.
I wondered why I wasn't getting e-mail back from the procmail recipe on
the system, so I telnetted in. There was a huge-ass Mailbox file in my
home dir containing 15,000 e-mails. I nuked it, then rummaged around for
whatever replaced .forward, and finally got it working.
Well, it broke.
I'm now slowly recovering from having a few hundred thousand bounce messages
generated by qmail because some "preline" command ceased to exist. Those
really suck when you're on a 28.8 UUCP connection, eh? And, worse yet,
the fscking bounce messages are TOO DAMNED SAPPY.
=====
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at machine.domain.org.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
<rtu...@machine.domain.org>:
preline: fatal: command not found
--- Below this line is a copy of the message.
=====
Of course, it sent the friggin' bounce message to an address that forwards
to it.
I don't know about you, but my monitor is too expensive to replace, and I
fear I'll lunge my office chair through it if I have to deal with qmail
locally. Viva la sendmail! -rt
--
Ryan Tucker
rtu...@netins.net
http://www.netins.net/showcase/rtucker
Mats Andtbacka
Matthew Sams, in <5das0o$9...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>:
>In article <5d7mo4$j...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
>Jonathan Stott <jstott...@poly.phys.cwru.edu> wrote:
>>Last time I checked (OK, the only time I checked) it couldn't get over
>>the fact that localhost does not have a domain name. That and the
>>author feels free to ignore any parts of the RFC's he finds
>>inconvenient (read the THOUGHTS file or the source code). He sounds
>>a lot like your typical PC programmer actually...
>If I'm not mistaken, the author has the initials DB. If so, when I mentionned
>qmail to two friends they both described him as "that arrogant sob..".
>At least one of them has met him. The other just heard through word of mouth.
well, all i've got to go on would be that THOUGHTS file and the rest
of the docs he put in the qmail sources. judging from that i'd have to
say he is arrogant, yes - i'd say he sounds like he makes arrogance
quite a virtue. the sort of arrogance that should fit any BOFH worth
their salt like their very skins, would be my assessment.
'course, he might just be a decent writer, on that hand.
--
"...it's all wrong
but it's alright..." -- Clapton
Mike Knell
In article <5df0rn$8...@josie.abo.fi>, Mats Andtbacka <mand...@abo.fi> wrote:
>
>>If I'm not mistaken, the author has the initials DB. If so, when I mentionned
>>qmail to two friends they both described him as "that arrogant sob..".
>>At least one of them has met him. The other just heard through word of mouth.
Well, having just pulled down the source and looked at it, these two
parts seem a little contradictory: (from the THOUGHTS file)
Exhibit A
---------
RFC 822 section 3.4.9 prohibits certain visual effects in headers.
qmail-inject doesn't waste the time to enforce this absurd restriction.
Exhibit B
---------
(from comparison with sendmail 8.*)
Parsing bug fixes: No need; qmail-inject's RFC 822 compliance is perfect.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Strikes me that the chap's just getting a little too carried away with
his own ego and refusing to believe that anyone else could be right
and he could be wrong, ever, at all. And an astonishing security
paranoia, considering putting the name of the MTA in SMTP responses to
be a security hole..
Me, I miss VRFY and EXPN - they've been two very useful tools in finding
people and at least roughly checking the validity of addresses. They'll
be sorely missed - by me, at least.
Mike "We use MMDF anyway" K.
--
Mike Knell -- a Good, Safe Alternative to Wholesale Murder. ((c) jldomini)
Department of Computer Science, The University of Nottingham, UK
If I could tell you I would let you know. -- http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~mpk/
D. J. Bernstein
Matthew Sams writes:
> At least one of them has met him.
Apparently you don't know whether the other one has.
> The other just heard through word of mouth.
Apparently you _do_ know whether the other one has.
[chuckle]
Even if you had managed to avoid contradicting yourself, it'd be obvious
that you were lying---everyone knows that I'm a computer program, not a
human being. I'm sort of like the old DOCTOR program, but I flame people
instead of comforting them. Mouahahahahahahaha.
D. J. Bernstein
Mike Knell writes:
> Well, having just pulled down the source and looked at it, these two
> parts seem a little contradictory:
Do you not understand the word ``parsing''? Sheesh.
> Strikes me that the chap's just getting a little too carried away with
> his own ego and refusing to believe that anyone else could be right
> and he could be wrong, ever, at all.
Strikes me that you're a blithering idiot. The difference between your
snap assessment and mine is that mine is consistent with the evidence.
(Hint for the clueless: If you look at qmail/CHANGES you will see 159
separate acknowledgments to people for a wide variety of suggestions.)
> And an astonishing security
> paranoia, considering putting the name of the MTA in SMTP responses to
> be a security hole..
You flunk reading comprehension. Please stick to exact quotes.
Here's what I wrote: ``I originally decided on security grounds not to
put qmail advertisements into SMTP responses: advertisements often act
as version identifiers. However, now that I have a reasonably stable
home page location for qmail, I don't think this will be a problem.''
It is blazingly obvious that the advertisement in question is a pointer
to the home page, that I am in fact using it, and that I don't consider
this to be a security problem.
> Me, I miss VRFY and EXPN - they've been two very useful tools in finding
> people and at least roughly checking the validity of addresses. They'll
> be sorely missed - by me, at least.
Hey, if you're really lucky, your computer might have a replacement
command that you could try---FINGER. And there's something even newer
called the World Wide Web. There are search services spanning the globe.
I bet you'll find them easier to use than connecting to AAAAAAAA.COM and
typing VRFY AAAAAAAA, VRFY AAAAAAAB, etc.
(I assume that this doesn't violate the useful-information restriction.)
Jeffrey A. Uphoff
What...is...this...much...useful...information...doing...here?!?
--Up.
"DJB" == D J Bernstein <d...@koobera.math.uic.edu> writes:
DJB> Ryan Tucker <rtu...@netins.net> wrote:
>> because some "preline" command ceased to exist.
DJB> Nope. It's because preline couldn't find procmail. You told it to
DJB> invoke procmail, see, but procmail wasn't in PATH, and you didn't supply
DJB> a path name.
DJB> Of course, the real problem is the procmail recipe that you set up on
DJB> your sendmail machine---it produced non-bounce messages in response to
DJB> bounce messages, turning the first bounce into an infinite bounce loop.
DJB> Btw, writing a procmail recipe doesn't make you a sysadmin. You might
DJB> want to try alt.luser.recovery.
[yadda...yadda...yadda...]
Ingvar the Grey
d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J. Bernstein) writes:
>Mike Knell writes:
[SNIP]
>> Me, I miss VRFY and EXPN - they've been two very useful tools in finding
>> people and at least roughly checking the validity of addresses. They'll
>> be sorely missed - by me, at least.
>Hey, if you're really lucky, your computer might have a replacement
>command that you could try---FINGER. And there's something even newer
>called the World Wide Web. There are search services spanning the globe.
>I bet you'll find them easier to use than connecting to AAAAAAAA.COM and
>typing VRFY AAAAAAAA, VRFY AAAAAAAB, etc.
Nope, but finger doesn't _do_ what EXPN does (not even the same thing
as VRFY). I usually use EXPN and VRFY to check things out when other
things go >kerPOW< and I have to track down the source of that.
I consider EXPN and VRFY to be two good things in a mailer and, now
that I've heard that qmail doesn't have them, won't consider changing.
//Ingvar (no footnotes, no nasty comments, or?)
--
Send me unsolicited commercial email and DIE!
<http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/mail/>
AndrewV
[alt.flame removed... that was really lame]
On 8 Feb 1997 04:53:15 GMT, d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J. Bernstein)
wrote:
>that you were lying---everyone knows that I'm a computer program, not a
>human being. I'm sort of like the old DOCTOR program, but I flame people
>instead of comforting them. Mouahahahahahahaha.
>
*sigh*
There _is_ a difference between behaving like a BOFH and doing a
creditable imitation of a luser.
Kindly learn the difference or leave.
D. J. Bernstein
Nope. It's because preline couldn't find procmail. You told it to
invoke procmail, see, but procmail wasn't in PATH, and you didn't supply
a path name.
Of course, the real problem is the procmail recipe that you set up on
your sendmail machine---it produced non-bounce messages in response to
bounce messages, turning the first bounce into an infinite bounce loop.
Btw, writing a procmail recipe doesn't make you a sysadmin. You might
want to try alt.luser.recovery.
> And, worse yet, the fscking bounce messages are TOO DAMNED SAPPY.
Yes, they're a calculated form of cruelty: a computer apologizing to you
for your own mistakes. Many people have a hard time dealing with that.
> Of course, it sent the friggin' bounce message to an address that forwards
> to it.
Internet MTAs always send bounce messages to the envelope sender. Your
sendmail/procmail system sent a message with envelope sender set to an
address that couldn't handle bounces---namely, itself. Congratulations.
Kai Henningsen
d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J. Bernstein) wrote on 08.02.97 in <1997Feb805....@koobera.math.uic.edu>:
[ the usual flames - if you've read one, you've read them all ]
Oh yes.
If you want DB to post to a newsgroup, any newsgroup at all, post an
article to that group containing the word qmail in a less-than-
complimentary sentence.
It might also work with a mailing list.
You won't have to wait long for the flames. Dan finds those articles just
as fast as another famous guy finds (found?) those containing a word that
can describe both a nation and a bird. Well, at least Dan writes his
flames by hand.
Richard Letts
D. J. Bernstein (d...@koobera.math.uic.edu) wrote:
>
> Yes, they're a calculated form of cruelty: a computer apologizing to you
> for your own mistakes. Many people have a hard time dealing with that.
>
from the system at work look as though I'd labouriously typed them in
is amazing.
The number of people who send me replies saying "That address it right
you moron, deliver my mail now" is also staggering, but they get a quote
from page 72 of "Using Email Effectively"[0] by Lamb&Peek:
".... You can ask for help and tell them what you think the address
should be. Polite[2] grovelling is the appropriate tone ...
... If the mail is frivolous you'll be surprised[3] at how nasty a
postmaster can be"
RjL
[0]this is a good book for a luser, but not much use for a sysadmin,
unless you're in the business of luser support, in which case you need
more help than this group can provide.
[1]Other people's lusers. My lusers get sent to luser support.
[2]s/Polite/Abject/
[3]!! not really[4]
--
UCE/SPAM will be returned and all future mail from that domain rejected,
news from that domain will be deleted from my news server.
see http://www.illuin.demon.co.uk/badmailfrom.txt for the current list
Ayse Sercan
d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J. Bernstein) wrote:
>Of course, the real problem is the procmail recipe that you set up on
>your sendmail machine---it produced non-bounce messages in response to
>bounce messages, turning the first bounce into an infinite bounce loop.
Ah, much like the very luserish (or BOFH-ish, I can't decide) vacation
package that Slip.net set up to bounce back mail sent to one of their
lusers who had failed to pay his bill on time and gotten cut off.
Braindead thing that it was, they'd set it up to bounce any message back
to sender, no matter who the sender was, and no matter how many times
they'd already sent mail to the sender.
So one of the mailing lists I run out of the goodness of my heart and also
because I can't seem to trick anybody else into taking it over, the
womens-cycling list, was hit overnight by about 3500 bounce messages from
Slip.net, all of which would be resent to this account, then bounced back
to the sender. It was not just an infinite loop; when people started
sending complaints to the list, it became an insanely out of control loop.
Then naturally, every host that get clobbered because of this list started
bouncing messages from the list back to me, so even after Slip.net had
turned off their idiot bot, I was getting about a thousand bounce messages
a day from this list. And I still had other lists to run and a Paying
Job to do.
>Yes, they're a calculated form of cruelty: a computer apologizing to you
>for your own mistakes. Many people have a hard time dealing with that.
The worst thing about bounce messages isn't their pseudo-obsequiousness,
but rather the fact that they're almost all MIME messages, which makes
them really annoying to read, as first they whiz by very fast, then I can
choose to look at them or not. Thing is, no matter what I choose, I
still have to page through them.
I suppose this is the price I pay for doing non-work internet stuff
through Netcom, Land of Badly-Configured Software. But I'll be damned if
I let my boss or his boss tell me what I can and can't post, and running
*two* net connections does not fit well with my Big Plans to Have a Life.
--
ay...@netcom.com
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the
system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed,
and replaced with new weaknesses." -- Bruce Leverett
Majdi Abbas
On 9 Feb 1997 00:45:05 GMT, D. J. Bernstein <d...@koobera.math.uic.edu> wrote:
> Ryan Tucker <rtu...@netins.net> wrote:
> > because some "preline" command ceased to exist.
>
> want to try alt.luser.recovery.
BTW, writing a snappy answer with *CONTENT* doesn't make you a
sysadmin. You might want to prepare yourself to be heavily
LARTed for this post. Secondly, why the hell do you just
appear here and decide to flame everyone you can. There's no
reason for it.
--Majdi
--
Majdi Abbas <mab...@uiuc.edu> | "Are you the police?"
| "No ma'am, we're musicians."
I do not speak for my employer. | They are perfectly capable of doing so.
Matthew Dixon Cowles
Plonk.
D. J. Bernstein
Depends on the readership. Usually I receive the first flame requests
(just mail 'em to djb-flame) within a few hours, but on occasion a
perfectly flame-able (inflammable?) article manages to stick around for
literally _days_ before I hear about it.
D. J. Bernstein
Your inexperience is showing. Try fingering postm...@ai.mit.edu.
EXPN and finger are separately configurable, but they serve the same
purpose. The duplication of functionality is pointless.
> I consider EXPN and VRFY to be two good things in a mailer
EXPN and VRFY are primarily used by intruders and spammers. This is why
more and more hosts are turning them off. Then there's just one server
providing the information, namely finger; if finger doesn't give it to
you, it's none of your business.
Peter M. O'Donnell
: > Nope, but finger doesn't _do_ what EXPN does
: Your inexperience is showing. Try fingering postm...@ai.mit.edu.
oh shit. get your asbestos out. the dead chicken trick is not
working.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter M. O'Donnell } pm...@magicnet.net { "If you are going to
A.U. Student,CNA,MCP { pm...@abs.net } walk on thin ice, you
"Clickity-Clickity" } po0...@american.edu { might as well dance!"
Mr Stuart Lamble
This is not really appropriate for a newsgroup. If you have an issue
with what I say here, mail me (followups set.) Let's put an end to the
flame wars on asr, please.
Having said that, I feel the need for a good rant. Yes, I'm bored.
D. J. Bernstein (d...@koobera.math.uic.edu) wrote:
: Strikes me that you're a blithering idiot. The difference between your
Has anybody here heard of the word "courtesy"? Going around calling
somebody a blithering idiot - regardless of whether or not they are -
is not the way to raise the world's opinion of you.
: > Me, I miss VRFY and EXPN - they've been two very useful tools in finding
: > people and at least roughly checking the validity of addresses. They'll
: > be sorely missed - by me, at least.
:
: Hey, if you're really lucky, your computer might have a replacement
: command that you could try---FINGER. And there's something even newer
Anybody who doesn't understand the difference between finger and vrfy
definitely qualifies as somebody who doesn't understand enough about the
way mailers work.
: called the World Wide Web. There are search services spanning the globe.
: I bet you'll find them easier to use than connecting to AAAAAAAA.COM and
: typing VRFY AAAAAAAA, VRFY AAAAAAAB, etc.
And anybody who even _thinks_ this is a valid comparison needs their
head examined. VRFY is hardly meant to find people - it serves a completely
different purpose to finger.. as I said in a private email to Dan.
--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not
necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going
to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly
overhead. -- RFC1925.
Pete Ehlke
d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J. Bernstein) writes:
>Ryan Tucker <rtu...@netins.net> wrote:
>> because some "preline" command ceased to exist.
>Nope. It's because preline couldn't find procmail. You told it to
>invoke procmail, see, but procmail wasn't in PATH, and you didn't supply
>a path name.
[blathering]
>Btw, writing a procmail recipe doesn't make you a sysadmin. You might
>want to try alt.luser.recovery.
You know, I was considering qmail. But this rogering tosspot is
starting to make Chuck Forsberg look like a reasonable guy. If his
software implemented eternal life I wouldn't use it. Sheesh, what a
jerk.
*plonk*
--
Pete Ehlke p...@tezcat.com p...@io.com mp...@the.satanic.org
I sent ten dollars to death.net and all I got was... well, nothing.
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J. Bernstein) said:
>Your inexperience is showing. Try fingering postm...@ai.mit.edu.
Speaking of which: I was once looking for somebody whom I was pretty sure was
at gnu.ai.mit.edu. I tried fingering the obvious names, but I wasn't coming
up with anything except the message:
:There is no user named <foo> here; check your spelling. Feel free
:to contact postm...@nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu for further
:assistance in locating this person. You can also try to use part
:of the real name, if known. E.g., ``finger stal...@gnu.ai.mit.edu''.
So I wrote to postm...@nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu, explaining who I was looking
for and what names I thought he might be going by. In response I got a long
tirade which took 3 pages to basically repeat over and over again in different
words "What the fuck are you bothering me for? Do I look like a telephone
directory?"
That's why for a long time, on alt.fan.warlord a common response to requests
for information was a suggestion that you ask the helpful
postm...@nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu who would be happy to answer your queries.
--
Paul Tomblin (ptom...@xcski.com), Rochester Flying Club
<a href="http://www.servtech.com/public/ptomblin/rfc.html">RFC Web Page</a>
RFC is selling one of our PA28-181 Piper Archer IIs. Contact me for details.
Chris Richardson
d...@koobera.math.uic.edu writes:
> Ingvar the Grey <ing...@bofh.se> wrote:
> > Nope, but finger doesn't _do_ what EXPN does
>
> Your inexperience is showing. Try fingering postm...@ai.mit.edu.
Mmmm. Lovely. Now try that at one of the mail exchangers for my
organisation (kcl.ac.uk). Or for many other organisations. Lots of
mail exchangers forward mail using a lookup table that isn't plugged
into finger. So finger doesn't _do_ what EXPN does.
> EXPN and finger are separately configurable, but they serve the same
> purpose. The duplication of functionality is pointless.
Well, sort of the same purpose. EXPN expands mail addresses, often at a
mail exchanger, and finger expands usernames on a host machine to give
lots of useful information.
Okay, so they can be made to give the same information. Okay, so none
of them really ought to be working if you're keen on watertight
security. But the fact remains that it is still often easier to check
email addresses by EXPN at a mail exchanger (if only because lots of
admins with half a clue disable finger but not EXPN and VRFY) rather
than search through badly-organised web sites or half-witted
people-search engines.
I think that was the point I was trying to make when I started writing
this reply, but I'm not really sure.
foop
ObSlightlyRelevant: Poxy bloody WhoWhere.com snarfed a load of people's
names from a web page that I maintain. Okay, fair enough. Trouble is,
they've given them all *my* email address in their half-witted database,
just because I was the one that created the page. Sheesh.
--
foop (fu:p):n. [Pharmacy, King's College London] Departmental PostDoc Geek.
"If a religion is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable
statements, then Go"del taught us that mathematics is not only a religion,
it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one." -- John Barron
Chris Richardson
d...@koobera.math.uic.edu writes:
> Internet MTAs always send bounce messages to the envelope sender.
In the interests of diluting the amount of useful information, I think
you might want to prepend the words "Properly configured" to that one.
Only last month I got about 120 bounce messages in the space of an hour
or two. A friend of mine, for reasons that only he knows[1], decided
to forward about 2 months of our email correspondence to an address
that didn't exist. The bounces ended up in my mailbox: something,
somewhere had managed to ferret out the (quoted-out) "Reply-to:" header
in those messages and sent them to me.
I blame Micro$oft. Frequently. And with conviction.
foop
Chris Rovers
In article <1997Feb1002...@koobera.math.uic.edu>,
>> Nope, but finger doesn't _do_ what EXPN does
>
>Your inexperience is showing. Try fingering postm...@ai.mit.edu.
>
>purpose. The duplication of functionality is pointless.
>
>
>EXPN and VRFY are primarily used by intruders and spammers. This is why
>more and more hosts are turning them off. Then there's just one server
>providing the information, namely finger; if finger doesn't give it to
>you, it's none of your business.
>
Ah, guys... this IS a.s.r
all OS's suck. All MTA's suck. All programs suck. and that includes
sendmail and qmail.
In this group, i couldn't give a rat's ass whether or not qmail sucks
less then sendmail, which sucks.
Go discuss in email if you must, or on another bloody group.
Too much close to useful information and too damn much bitchin' about
somethin' other then lusers... we're SUPPOSED to be recovering
-cdr
Pissed off cuz he hasn't been told whether he's gettin' a transfer to
programming from sysadmin and is gettin' ticked at the delay. damn it, i
wanna recover
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
cdro...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/cdrovers
----------------------Hit any user to continue------------------------
D. J. Bernstein
> But the fact remains that it is still often easier to check
> email addresses by EXPN at a mail exchanger (if only because lots of
> admins with half a clue disable finger but not EXPN and VRFY)
Yes, that's exactly the point.
You're exploiting someone else's misconfiguration---obtaining
information that he didn't want you to have.
That's why spammers and intruders love EXPN.
On the other side of the coin: If you're trying to make information
available to legitimate users, EXPN is a stupid way to go. You can make
all the same information available through finger. Given the location of
this discussion, I won't provide a fingerd URL.
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, Simon Burr <si...@bpfh.net> said:
>cdro...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Rovers) writes:
>>Pissed off cuz he hasn't been told whether he's gettin' a transfer to
>>programming from sysadmin and is gettin' ticked at the delay. damn it, i
>>wanna recover
>
>transformed from a troll into a BPFH. I thought that I was going to recover
>from being a Sysadmin.
You know, there are times when I'm really glad that the news (and sys)
adminning I do is volunteer work. It doesn't appear on my resume, because I
want to stay a programmer. Sure, I might offer some suggestions here and
there about the news system at work or figure out what's wrong with the
sendmail.cf before I send a report to the real sysadmins, but if I'm careful
about it the people who pay me don't find out that I know something about
sysadminning so I can continue to torture myself programming in C++.
--
Paul Tomblin (ptom...@xcski.com), Rochester Flying Club
<a href="http://www.servtech.com/public/ptomblin/rfc.html">RFC Web Page</a>
RFC is selling one of our PA28-181 Piper Archer IIs. Contact me for details.
Meigs Field is re-open. All hail "Friends of Meigs Field" and AOPA.
Joe Zeff
In an egregeious waste of bandwidth, ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
wrote:
>
>So I wrote to postm...@nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu, explaining who I was looking
>for and what names I thought he might be going by. In response I got a long
>tirade which took 3 pages to basically repeat over and over again in different
>words "What the fuck are you bothering me for? Do I look like a telephone
>directory?"
To which I'd reply, "Why yes, you do; after all, you're postmaster.
That's what being posmaster is all about. If you don't want to do the
work, why do you have the job?"
------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Zeff Earthlink Network
jo...@earthlink.net Senior Tech Support
(800) 395-8410
"The only problem with troubleshooting is that
sometimes trouble shoots back."
------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Zeff
In an egregeious waste of bandwidth, d...@koobera.math.uic.edu (D. J.
Bernstein) wrote:
>Kai Henningsen <k...@khms.westfalen.de> wrote:
>> You won't have to wait long for the flames.
>Depends on the readership. Usually I receive the first flame requests
>(just mail 'em to djb-flame) within a few hours, but on occasion a
>perfectly flame-able (inflammable?) article manages to stick around for
>literally _days_ before I hear about it.
Judging by what you write, you use flamming anybody that doesn't
worship your progarm as a substitute for a life. Also, your arrogant
assumption that you are always right, no matter the circumstances, is
the inevitable hallmark of your luserhood. Why don't you just crawl
back under your rock and stop pestering your betters?
Steve Birnbaum
Do not use a web browser for reading news. <blink>
On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:06:36 GMT, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>sendmail.cf before I send a report to the real sysadmins, but if I'm careful
>about it the people who pay me don't find out that I know something about
>sysadminning so I can continue to torture myself programming in C++.
What's your boss' e-mail address?
--
Steve Birnbaum - System Administrator, NetMedia. Jerusalem, Israel.
sb...@netmedia.net.il Phone: +972-2-6795860 --Standard Disclaimer--
Boycott Internet Spam! http://www.vix.com/spam/ (PGP key available)
Joey Hess
In article <6QYJN...@khms.westfalen.de>, Kai Henningsen wrote:
| It might also work with a mailing list.
Yep. Mailing lists too.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -i=-/*/~%*~%/~~%/~~~-/*/_/=~~~-/====~~! # jo...@kite.ml.org
$o=35;$_="$^I-*!=====_!/";s/~/!*/g;s~%~-/ / ~g;$_.='--- Joey Hess
';s/=/__/g;y|*!| \\|;for(split/-/){print' 'x$o--."$_\n"}# a M.C. Escher fan
"true - do nothing, successfully" - - true (1)
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, sb...@netmedia.net.il (Steve Birnbaum) said:
>Do not use a web browser for reading news. <blink>
<center>Why not?
>On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:06:36 GMT, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>>sendmail.cf before I send a report to the real sysadmins, but if I'm careful
>>about it the people who pay me don't find out that I know something about
>>sysadminning so I can continue to torture myself programming in C++.
>
>What's your boss' e-mail address?
Vicki Robinson
sb...@netmedia.net.il (Steve Birnbaum) asks Paul Tomblin:
>What's your boss' e-mail address?
>
That would be me, thanks.
Vicki
--
Vicki Robinson
<blink><a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/binky.html">BINKY!</a></blink>
Visit my home page at <a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts"> Vicki's Home Page
</a> and sign my guest book. Millions have!
Petro
In article <5dqevv$6...@panix2.panix.com>,
Vicki Robinson <vic...@panix.com> wrote:
>sb...@netmedia.net.il (Steve Birnbaum) asks Paul Tomblin:
>>What's your boss' e-mail address?
>That would be me, thanks.
ROTFLMAO.
--
***************** PLEASE TAKE NOTE:
In an effort to reduce the amount of junk mail that I receive, I am no longer
reading email sent to pe...@suba.com. send email to lo...@encodex.com where
login = petro. You send unsoliciated commercial email, and I will kill you.
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, vic...@panix.com (Vicki Robinson) said:
>sb...@netmedia.net.il (Steve Birnbaum) asks Paul Tomblin:
>
>>What's your boss' e-mail address?
>
>That would be me, thanks.
>
Hey! Who taught you how to post here?