An Elementary Exposition on the Theory of Ponydynamics
Szechuan Death
(or "<3 <3 <3 OMG Ponies <3 <3 <3")
As a matter of observed history, no field of scientific endeavour
springs fully-formed, as Athena from the head of Zeus; Man looks at the
tableaux that surround him and concocts principles to explain them. It
is the hope of all scientists that eventually, through the dreadfully
long processes of trial and error and of experimentation and
observation, that these principles inch ever-closer to an approximation
of the Truth of our world, henceforth reserved solely to the Creator.
The theory of ponydynamics (or "ponidynamics", as spelled by the
inhabitants of the British Isles and the Indian subcontinent; "teoria
dinamiky ponyi", for our Russian brethren) is a wide-ranging and complex
view of certain facets of our world, capable of many surprises even
after many years of study. It is not an extensive treatment that I
propose here in this short missive, since such a task would be
impossible; I aim only at the mark of imparting the general sense of
this theory to the interested layman, and hope much that I hit it.
The theory of ponydynamics begins with the somewhat crude observation of
Freud that childhood development may be broken up into a number of
stages, the second of which, from ages 2 to 4, comprise the anal or
"shit-oriented" stage of childhood. These ages are only approximate, of
course. It is at about this stage of childhood that the parents among
us will recognize a common verbalization of their young:
"I want a pony."
About this verbalization: the concepts of pony qua pony, and the simple
desire thereof, are its only content. What is notably not included in
this statement is an appreciation of the manifold other characteristics
and pitfalls of pony acquisition, ownership, and maintenance. Some of
these characteristics are logistical in nature: ponies must eat, or in
the short- to medium-term, there will be no pony. There must be a
repository for the byproducts of pony eating, viz. pony shit, and a
means of transporting these byproducts to their final place of repose,
and someone to engage in this task on a periodic basis. Other
characteristics are practical in nature: the existence of a pony
implies the existence of a place to keep it, which will presumably be
the yard of the youth, and unless the fortunate youth has the last name
"Gotrocks" or "Gates", that yard is not likely to be very large. Since
the pony requires as much room as possible, the existence of the pony
and paddock are mutually exclusive with continued ownership of, say, the
huge slide/swingset that the child loves, and the wading pool, and the
berry bushes, and the small garden, und so weiter. All of the above are
gone, displaced to make Pony Room. Then, there is the whole question of
the time during the day spent for Pony Maintenance, i.e. brushing,
examination for ailments, veterinarian visits, etc. There are also the
monetary costs and exclusivity thereof, where the requirements of the
pony will preclude, say, that new fantastically expensive and yet
amazingly crappy Japanese youth-oriented animation series
marketing-craze plastic doll accessory kit that the child desires upon
its birthday.
Again, none of the preceding difficulties are understood at this stage
of the child's life; the child understands only that ponies exist, and
that he or she wants one. The responses to this state of affairs tend
to fall into one or more of the following categories: patient
explanation to child of some of these realities, polite refusal when
child does not understand these realities, spanking when child throws
tantrum, and/or auction of child to roving bands of Gypsies.
So far, none of this is new. The conceptual leap we must make to the
beginning flagstones of a Unified Theory of Ponydynamics is the
observation that some people never leave this state of their childhood,
remaining shit-oriented forever, even though they gain greater
capability to verbalize their desires. We would, in fact, expect this
trait to be roughly normally distributed in a large population; in other
words, roughly 50% of the population are moderately shit-oriented, and
as many as 15% are more than one standard deviation from the average in
terms of shit-orientedness. Taken together, this represents a very
large and formidable pro-pony bloc.
Although this Pony Bloc is evenly distributed in the population, its
effects are not. The key observation is that demands for ponies can
only be sustained when their costs can be hidden and/or externalized.
While this can to some extent be done in any field, there are a few
places where it is most pronounced: information technology, politics,
and engineering. I will focus on IT here. IT provides the perfect
fluoroscope for the observation of this process, because its costs are
always unappreciated (and, to the non-practitioner) somewhat suspect;
because the costs of IT are somewhat nebulous and its tasks and metrics
for success difficult to define, the beneficiaries of IT skills always
feel as though they are paying for nothing, and getting it. They
therefore feel entitled to "get their money's worth" by continuously
demanding ponies, which it becomes the job of the IT department to provide.
IT professionals (BOFHs) will recognize this pattern immediately, the
tasks of Pony Specification, Pony Refusal, Management-Mediated Forcible
Pony Acceptance, Pony Corralling, Pony Maintenance, Emergency Pony
Maintenance, Pony Deployment, and Pony Decommissioning generally
comprising the largest part (>90%) of their daily workload. As any IT
professional will also readily identify, ponies consume resources wholly
out of proportion with their number; a single pony, suffered to exist at
all, becomes a time-sucking and unmaintainable albatross until it is
finally led out to the glue wagon. (This is one of the underpinnings of
Murphy's Second Law of Engineering, "It always costs more to do the
cheap/easy/fast way than it costs to do right the first time." This can
neatly and amusingly be restated with a slight change of capitalization
as "IT always costs more to do the cheap/easy/fast way than IT costs to
do right the first time.")
After the first Pony Experience, an IT novice is on the road to becoming
an IT Professional, and gains an understanding (if not wholly
verbalized) of the Basic Theorems of Ponydynamics, their duals, and
corollaries, which are presented here without further ado:
* * * * * * * * * * L A W S * * * * * * * * * *
First Law of Ponydynamics: In a well-maintained system (S), the
following quantities are all nonincreasing functions of time: number of
ponies (N), resources consumed by ponies (R), personnel dedicated to
pony support (P), and personnel originating demands for ponies (p).
Second Law of Ponydynamics: In a system S, any change of pony state is
always in the direction of minimizing (in aggregate) the above four
variables.
Third Law of Ponydynamics [weak form]: In a system S tending towards
its ideal steady state, the value of all four Pony State variables tends
toward zero.
* * * * * * * * * * E N D * * * * * * * * * *
Duality principle: No real-world system (S') that can externalize its
costs is ever, or can ever be, well-maintained.
* * * * * * * * * * D U A L S * * * * * * * * * *
Dual of First Law of Ponydynamics: In any system S', all of the
quantities (N, R, P, p) are nondecreasing functions of time.
Dual of Second Law of Ponydynamics: In any system S', any change of
pony state is either in the direction of maintaining (in aggregate) the
value of the above four variables, or of increasing them (in aggregate).
Dual of Third Law of Ponydynamics: In any system S' tending towards its
steady state, the values of all four Pony State variables are unbounded.
* * * * * * * * * * E N D * * * * * * * * * *
Corollary #1 [Ordering principle]: A group of systems (G) can be
rank-ordered by the average value of its Pony State variables
(A=<f(N,R,P,p,t)>).
Corollary #2 [Lifespan]: The long-term viability (V) of any system is
inversely proportional to the value of A. (V(t)=k/A(t); by Corollary #1
and Dual #3, lim t->+inf V(t) = 0).
Corollary #3 [Necessity, strong form of Third Law]: For a system S to
reach its ideal state, a necessary and sufficient condition is that all
Pony State variables be identically zero.
With this mental framework in place, we can begin to see and create a
taxonomy of patterns once obscured. We can see that it is the task of
the BOFH to carefully assess the Pony State variables at hand and set
about minimizing them, and it is the goal of the rest of the
organization to shut the hell up, stop demanding ponies, and let the
BOFHs get on with the Good Work, before they wind up chained to a
lamppost in the goddamned parking lot and FLAYED ALIVE with a cat of
nine-tails as an example to the rest of the fucking lusers...
Ah, I apologize. I am dreadfully sorry for disrupting the scholarly
tone, and pray forgiveness.
At any rate, the desideratum of the BOFH is the orderly transition
through a series of steps to a Pony-Free state, which by Corollary #3 is
the only way to reach the system's ideal state. This notional ideal
(and, I hasten to say sadly, usually an unreachable one) is akin to the
least-energy state of a system in the related field of thermodynamics.
Where it is possible to achieve, it can be achieved when one of the four
standard methods of dealing with child pony-demands noted above
("lecture", "refusal", "spanking", "auction"), or their contextual
equivalent, is supported either by economic constraints or by
administrative fiat. We can now add a fourth Corollary:
Corollary #4 [Frustration]: For a system S embedded in a given
workplace (W), the frustration (F) of the BOFH in dealing with S is
directly proportional to both the cooperation (c) received in minimizing
the Pony State variables of this system and the inherent difficulty (D)
of minimization of these variables. (F(S)=k*c(t)D(N,R,P,p,t))
And also a fifth:
Corollary #5 [Desirability]: The desirability (Z) of employment for a
BOFH at a given workplace W is proportional to the negative of the first
derivative of the frustration F. (Z(t)=-k*F'(S(W)))
It is at this point that the layman has all the important basic tenets
of the theory at hand, and may use them in evaluating his or her own
situation vis-a-vis pony-wrangling. I urge the interested reader to
consider further implications of this theory as an exercise.
[Ed. Note: The nasty mathematical version of this theory is
significantly tougher, as it introduces differential operators and
certain concepts of vector calculus, and invokes Cthulhu if certain
sections are pronounced improperly. If you pronounce it properly,
Cthulhu will solve some of your pony problems with an immediate
cancellation of p (if you're lucky), and *all* of your pony problems by
a cancellation of P (if you're not). Some days you may not care,
though, it coming to the same either way.]
--
(c) 2008 Chaste Adze Hun via Central Plexus <has...@tent.heads>
I am Chaos. I am alive, and I tell you that you are Free. -Eris
"NO! NO PONIES! NO... MORE... GOD... DAMNED... PONIES!"
|-------- Your message must be this wide to ride the Internet. --------|
Tai
> On 2008-02-18, Szechuan Death <sde...@sdeath.net> wrote:
>> BOFHs get on with the Good Work, before they wind up chained to a
>> lamppost in the goddamned parking lot and FLAYED ALIVE with a cat of
>> nine-tails as an example to the rest of the fucking lusers...
>
Stop showing off that you read the whole thing.
-Tai
--
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html
http://www.kenthamilton.net/humor/humor.html
http://www.despair.com/demotivators/cluelessness.html
"What we have done with PCs so far is not natural" - Craig Mundie, CTO Microsoft
Peter Corlett
> On 2008-02-18, Szechuan Death <sde...@sdeath.net> wrote:
>> lamppost in the goddamned parking lot and FLAYED ALIVE with a cat of
>> nine-tails as an example to the rest of the fucking lusers...
Whoa, that was actually intended for this september froup? I had assumed it
was random spew from some Uvcpevzr variant and fastread it.
Did I miss anything? TLDR and all that.
--
Improvable Tripe: http://tripe.cabal.org.uk/
David Gersic
> Did I miss anything? TLDR and all that.
Pretty funny, actually. Read more slowly. It's a disguised rant.
SteveD
<davidey...@onlyforfun.net> wrote:
>What's the fscking point of flaying someone that is not alive?
Practice?
Hmmm
>
> Whoa, that was actually intended for this september froup? I had assumed it
> was random spew from some Uvcpevzr variant and fastread it.
>
> Did I miss anything? TLDR and all that.
Depends. For those of us laboring in academentia, and schooled in the
history of science, it's pretty damn funny.
Ross
David Cameron Staples
> In article <fpc6bs$rub$1...@mooli.org.uk>,
> It was one of the best delurks I've seen in a while, actually.
Theoretical and applied ponydynamics. ISAGN.
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT csse DOT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
LITTLE GOLDEN BOOKS THAT NEVER MADE IT:
6. The Little Sissy Who Snitched
Robert Uhl
>
> What's the fscking point of flaying someone that is not alive?
'Pout encourager les autres,' or words to that effect.
--
Instruction ends in the schoolroom--but education
ends only with life. --Publilius Syrus
Robert Uhl
--
Of course, if you're writing the code to control a cruise missile, you
may not actually need an explicit loop exit. The loop will be
terminated automatically at the appropriate moment.
-Programming Perl, 3rd Ed.
Szechuan Death
I had intended something more along the lines of "instructions to goons
performing the chaining to lamppost, WRT acceptable pre-chaining
treatment". Effective flaying requires screaming, which in turn
precludes certain pre-flaying activities, like tossing down flights of
stairs/out the window/off the roof to get flayee to parking lot, the use
of certain holds or devices on flayee with an above-trivial chance of
interfering with the flaying (e.g. Taser, chokehold), &c.
I should have been more precise, I apologize. It's been a long month or
so. Lots of ponies. I hate ponies. I hate ponies that have had their
pony-nature and undesirability of same clearly and loudly expounded
upon, only to find the pony waiting for me in a crate in my cubicle the
next day, with a certain ammoniac smell lingering nearby that says
"Lucky you, your VERY FIRST TASK is to shovel turds! How awesome is
that, huh?"
Death to ponies.
--
(c) 2008 Chaste Adze Hun via Central Plexus <has...@tent.heads>
I am Chaos. I am alive, and I tell you that you are Free. -Eris
Know -- and in knowing, choose. Choose -- and in choosing, do.
David Cameron Staples
> I should have been more precise, I apologize. It's been a long month or
> so. Lots of ponies. I hate ponies. I hate ponies that have had their
> pony-nature and undesirability of same clearly and loudly expounded
> upon, only to find the pony waiting for me in a crate in my cubicle the
> next day, with a certain ammoniac smell lingering nearby that says
> "Lucky you, your VERY FIRST TASK is to shovel turds! How awesome is
> that, huh?"
>
> Death to ponies.
>
And so a new lexicon entry was born.
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT csse DOT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
Thanks for the Dadaist Pep-talk.
Steve VanDevender
> Davide Bianchi <davidey...@onlyforfun.net> writes:
>>
>> What's the fscking point of flaying someone that is not alive?
>
> 'Pout encourager les autres,' or words to that effect.
I suppose it would let you demonstrate fine points of your technique to
an audience without them being distracted by all the screaming and
writhing.
Of course, you could still use a live and conscious, umm, "model" who
has been given a proper dose of curare.
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes
AndyC the WB
Szechuan> approximate, of course. It is at about this stage of
Szechuan> childhood that the parents among us will recognize a
Szechuan> common verbalization of their young:
Szechuan> "I want a pony."
Asking kids in the early stages of learning to speak if they can say
that, while in earshot of their parents, has a certain amusement value.
--
Andy Cunningham -- www.cunningham.me.uk
a.s.r is where you come to have those last vestiges of hope and
optimism burned away. -- Steve VanDevender
Peter H. Coffin
> ab...@leftmind.net (Anthony de Boer - USEnet) wrote in
> news:fpdfv0$nr0$1...@sheepdip.leftmind.net:
>
>> David Cameron Staples posted thus:
>>>Theoretical and applied ponydynamics. ISAGN.
>>
>> who hasn't quite put two and two together about the barn and paddock
>> behind our house that the previous owners used for their pony
>> collection. I've supported virtual ponies for enough years that I can
>> do quite well without having to apply that experience to real ones as
>> well.
>>
>
> When my daughters were 4 years old or so, they decided they wanted pets.
> They came up with a list that went something like: A dog, a cat, a bird, a
> fish, a mouse, a guinea pig, and - you guessed it - a pony.
I understand mastiffs have qualities resembling two of those on the
list.
--
70. When my guards split up to search for intruders, they will always travel in
groups of at least two. They will be trained so that if one of them
disappears mysteriously while on patrol, the other will immediately call
for backup, instead of quizzically peering around a corner. --Overlord
Zebee Johnstone
BDFH <bdf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>
> When my daughters were 4 years old or so, they decided they wanted pets.
> They came up with a list that went something like: A dog, a cat, a bird, a
> fish, a mouse, a guinea pig, and - you guessed it - a pony.
I don't think I ever had to ask.
Because Mum was horse mad too, and we got "my" first pony when I was
about 10.
Zebee
Shmuel Metz
at 02:46 AM, Szechuan Death <sde...@sdeath.net> said:
>Although this Pony Bloc is evenly distributed in the population, its
>effects are not. The key observation is that demands for ponies can only
>be sustained when their costs can be hidden and/or externalized. While
>this can to some extent be done in any field, there are a few places
>where it is most pronounced: information technology, politics, and
>engineering. I will focus on IT here.
Shirley there is politics in IT.
>before they wind up chained to a
>lamppost in the goddamned parking lot and FLAYED ALIVE with a cat of
>nine-tails as an example to the rest of the fucking lusers...
I sense a revenue opportunity here.
>Corollary #4 [Frustration]: For a system S embedded in a given
>workplace (W), the frustration (F) of the BOFH in dealing with S is
>directly proportional to both the cooperation (c) received in minimizing
>the Pony State variables of this system and the inherent difficulty (D)
>of minimization of these variables. (F(S)=k*c(t)D(N,R,P,p,t))
Shirley F(S)=k/c(t)D(N,R,P,p,t)
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
Joe Zeff
<sp...@cunningham.me.uk> wrote:
>
>Asking kids in the early stages of learning to speak if they can say
>that, while in earshot of their parents, has a certain amusement value.
Art Linkletter used to bring kids on his show. Having a bit of the
BOFH nature, he liked to ask them if there was anything their parents
had told them not to say. You'd be amazed at the answers that
elicited. I'm a tad astonished that none of them ever replied, "Yes.
They told me not to call you a big doo-doo head."
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
OMG! PONIES!!!
http://www.lasfs.info http://www.zeff.us
David Cameron Staples
> Peter H. Coffin wrote:
>
>> I understand mastiffs have qualities resembling two of those on the
>> list.
>>
>
> You should see the Irish wolf hound the neighbor down the street has.
> Its shoulder is ~1m above the ground. Poor critter thought its name was
> "HOLY SH--!" for about two months as each local observed it after the
> owners moved in. The big fella is actually quite the gentle giant. A
> couple of the local spawn got to playing limbo between its legs, until
> the critter nearly sat on one of the spawn.
A couple of doors up from us there is a dog who was born about the same
time as my elder daughter, and she just turned five. She is only now
starting to grow taller than him. He is a Great Dane/Mastiff cross. The
height of the Dane, the build of the Mastiff. And, like Hagrid's dog Fang,
he's just a big (make that BIG) softy. We have no problems with the girls
playing with him. The only danger from him is if he turns around and knocks
one over. Or if he doesn't swerve in time if you get in his way while he's
running^Wgalloping^Wgallumphing down the street when he's being 'walked'.
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT csse DOT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
some people are talking about virgins, some people are talking about math,
someone said something about God, and _I_ thought you were still talking
about typology. -- bash.org/?82196
Peter Corlett
[...]
> What's the fscking point of flaying someone that is not alive?
Your copy of the Bat Book is looking a bit dog-eared and you need to put a
new cover on it?
Robert Sneddon
<sta...@cs.mu.oz.au.SPAM> writes
> He is a Great Dane/Mastiff cross. The
>height of the Dane, the build of the Mastiff. And, like Hagrid's dog Fang,
>he's just a big (make that BIG) softy. We have no problems with the girls
>playing with him.
My Personal Hell is small but select. The part fitted with an induction
hob dialled up to 11 is for people who abuse dogs and turn them into
beasts.
Virtually any dog not suffering from brain worms or ancephalic
in-breeding wants to be a good member of the local pack it was born and
raised in. Your job as its owner is to be the top dog, the alpha (male
of female doesn't matter). You're in charge of raising that animal in
the proper way, and that means socialising it with other members of the
pack, up to and including every other human on the planet (assuming
you're not building a guard dog which is a different matter -- but even
a guard dog should still not be a beast when the basic training is
complete).
Raised right, no healthy dog is a danger to any human being that is
willing to meet it halfway. I exclude humans who try and commit violence
on close pack members or intrude into close pack territory
inappropriately (i.e. muggers and burglars) from that category, but even
then there are enough tales of dopey dogs not doing the right thing in
that sort of situation.
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Peter H. Coffin
> Virtually any dog not suffering from brain worms or ancephalic
> in-breeding wants to be a good member of the local pack it was born and
> raised in. Your job as its owner is to be the top dog, the alpha (male
> of female doesn't matter). You're in charge of raising that animal in
> the proper way, and that means socialising it with other members of the
> pack, up to and including every other human on the planet (assuming
> you're not building a guard dog which is a different matter -- but even
> a guard dog should still not be a beast when the basic training is
> complete).
>
> Raised right, no healthy dog is a danger to any human being that is
> willing to meet it halfway. I exclude humans who try and commit violence
> on close pack members or intrude into close pack territory
> inappropriately (i.e. muggers and burglars) from that category, but even
> then there are enough tales of dopey dogs not doing the right thing in
> that sort of situation.
One must admire someone that can get this far in Our Profession and
still retain such a belief, nay reverence, for How Things Work In
Theory. You have a pure soul, Robert. As for myself, I've no idea
how to tell at any random encounter whether an owner is such an
alpha packmember, whether the dog has the same idea of threatening
behavior as I do, etc. Instead, I'll continue to expect that, until
proved otherwise, that every canine wants to chew my arm off and only
distraction is preventing its attempting to.
--
36. I will not imprison members of the same party in the same cell block, let
alone the same cell. If they are important prisoners, I will keep the only
key to the cell door on my person instead of handing out copies to every
bottom-rung guard in the prison. --Peter Anspach's Evil Overlord List
Phil Launchbury
> In message <47bce059$1...@news.unimelb.edu.au>, David Cameron Staples
><sta...@cs.mu.oz.au.SPAM> writes
>
>> He is a Great Dane/Mastiff cross. The
>>height of the Dane, the build of the Mastiff. And, like Hagrid's dog Fang,
>>he's just a big (make that BIG) softy. We have no problems with the girls
>>playing with him.
>
> in-breeding wants to be a good member of the local pack it was born and
> raised in. Your job as its owner is to be the top dog, the alpha (male
Or even one it finds itself in later on in life (as is the case with
two of ours). After the settling-in period normal life resumes
(although the pack gestalt mentality will like be different from before
in a Fire-Upon-The-Deep fashion).
> of female doesn't matter). You're in charge of raising that animal in
> the proper way, and that means socialising it with other members of the
> pack, up to and including every other human on the planet (assuming
And making all the complex on-the-spot decisions that the dog isn't
equipped to make. Which is what drives dogs insane when (by the lack of
knowledge in the owner leading to dog being Top Dog) they think they
lead the pack. Which would be OK in a situation that they are
programmed to cope with but not in a modern social context.
> Raised right, no healthy dog is a danger to any human being that is
> willing to meet it halfway. I exclude humans who try and commit violence
Indeed. My pack consists of 1 GSD/Rottie cross, 1 Doberman/Rottie, 1
Staffie/Jack Russell cross (aka Turbo nutter - all the terrier nature
of the Staffie but *much* quicker..) and one Dachshund. Of them all the
only one likely to do damage to anyone would be the GSD/Rottie cross
(he loves people and anyone we let into the house gets an enthusiastic
greeting - unless of course they follow my advice and ignore him! - and
he has been known to barge someone over while greeting them) or the
Dachsund (as with all Dachshunds I've met she has a combination of fear
and paranoia in the extreme - she doesn't like strangers and will
attempt to run away from them. *If* she can't get away then she will -
as a last resort - go to bite.) The only situation where we have to be
careful is any meetings between the Staffie cross and other
bull-terrier breeds. Generally it's fine (and she plays regularly with
a full Staffie) but if one of them starts getting aggressive you need
to separate them fairly quickly or you get a fight on your hands. AKA
Terrier aggression-escalation.
> then there are enough tales of dopey dogs not doing the right thing in
> that sort of situation.
The Dobermann/Rottie cross is the pack guardian. She patrols the garden
and sits in our bedroom window growling at people coming onto our
property. But she's also the most placid one in terms of her behaviour
with people that I speak to at the door - she'll just lurk behind me
looking evil.. She's also the only one of the pack that we have had
from puppyhood (and boy - does it show in terms of responsiveness to
commands!).
Phil.
--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'
Jasper Janssen
>He has another amusing yarn about letting the critter into the yard
>whilst a couple of the older sprog were trespassing through said
>property. The sprog couldn't figure out what to make of the critter,
>only that is was very big and walking around. The critter didn't even
>get that close to them, but the owner doesn't have trouble with the
>twits using his yard as a shortcut anymore.
Someone should inform the Rambler's Association.
Jasper
Phil Launchbury
> still retain such a belief, nay reverence, for How Things Work In
> Theory. You have a pure soul, Robert. As for myself, I've no idea
These rules are (pretty much) hardcoded into the dog. Therefore all
that anyone needs to do is learn the appropriate signals and
indicators. Sure you may always get a rogue dog that has gone psychotic
(either by owners design or simple ignorance) but they are very very
rare.
In my forty-mumble years of being around dogs I've never been bitten
once. But I have *lots* of scars from cats.. (and I'm primarily a cat
person - I like dogs but I'd far rather have a cat..)
> alpha packmember, whether the dog has the same idea of threatening
> behavior as I do, etc.
He/she won't. For example - head stroking is a (potentially) aggressive
act for a dog because it involves something that is part of the dogs
dominance behaviour (ie 'the one above the other wins'.
Which is why the first thing I do when meeting a strange dog is let
them sniff my hands and legs. This mimics the behaviour dogs use amonst
themselves and gets the relationship off to a good start..
Phil
riotnrrd
> in Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:13:52 -0500, Jason Shadeius in hic locum scripsit:
>
>> Peter H. Coffin wrote:
>>
>>> I understand mastiffs have qualities resembling two of those on the
>>> list.
>>>
>> You should see the Irish wolf hound the neighbor down the street has.
>> Its shoulder is ~1m above the ground. Poor critter thought its name was
>> "HOLY SH--!" for about two months as each local observed it after the
>> owners moved in. The big fella is actually quite the gentle giant. A
>> couple of the local spawn got to playing limbo between its legs, until
>> the critter nearly sat on one of the spawn.
>
> A couple of doors up from us there is a dog who was born about the same
> time as my elder daughter, and she just turned five. She is only now
> starting to grow taller than him. He is a Great Dane/Mastiff cross. The
> height of the Dane, the build of the Mastiff. And, like Hagrid's dog Fang,
> he's just a big (make that BIG) softy. We have no problems with the girls
> playing with him. The only danger from him is if he turns around and knocks
> one over. Or if he doesn't swerve in time if you get in his way while he's
> running^Wgalloping^Wgallumphing down the street when he's being 'walked'.
When I was growing up, a neighbour had some form of pony-sized dog; I
forget the breed, but he had long white hair. I could just about take
being greeted by him, given sufficient warning to brace myself, but a
memory which still has me chuckling today is of the look on my little
sister's face as she went over backwards, dog's paws on her shoulders...
His *tail* could knock kids down, if he was getting enthusiastic with it.
--
RiotNrrd
I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.
Robert Sneddon
Launchbury <ph...@launchbury.org.uk> writes
>He/she won't. For example - head stroking is a (potentially) aggressive
>act for a dog because it involves something that is part of the dogs
>dominance behaviour (ie 'the one above the other wins'.
>
>Which is why the first thing I do when meeting a strange dog is let
>them sniff my hands and legs. This mimics the behaviour dogs use amonst
>themselves and gets the relationship off to a good start..
The hand-sniff is always a good start. Dogs have an odd sense of
decorum and protocol, and as you said it's pretty much hard-wired into
them.
Head strokes and pats afterwards are good too, as long as someone from
the dog's own pack is around. You'll sometimes see a dog being stroked
by a stranger looking around at its owner, to check "Is this OK?". If
their alpha is OK with the stroking then the dog will accept it too. You
know you're in when the dog lies down on its side as that's pure
submissiveness.
OTOH kids get away with murder when dogs are around; they can mistreat
Woofie, pull his ears, hit him with toys etc. and (assuming the dog has
been well-brought-up) he will tolerate it in a way he wouldn't if an
adult was doing that sort of thing. Junior members of the pack get a lot
of slack.
Joe Zeff
<ph...@launchbury.org.uk> wrote:
>But I have *lots* of scars from cats...
Well, yes. Cats aren't pack animals and they aren't domesticated.
AIUI, they're classified as "wild domestic," meaning wild animals that
live with mankind. One of the reasons is that until fairly recently,
the main reason most people kept cats was for pest control, and that
required us to avoid mucking with their hunting instincts.
Also, a cat's method of play with another cat is a mock-fight. When
they rake each other with their claws, they don't use enough pressure
to get past the fur. What they don't understand is, humans don't have
fur and what's Just Right with another cat is going to scratch their
friend.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
This is going to sound strange in here, but not everyone is a luser.
http://www.lasfs.info http://www.zeff.us
Jim
> Which is why the first thing I do when meeting a strange dog is let
> them sniff my hands and legs. This mimics the behaviour dogs use amonst
> themselves and gets the relationship off to a good start..
Another common mistake is when people have two dogs and treat them
equally. This is Very Bad, especially if the dogs haven't settled on
which of them is Top Dog (below you, of course). It leads to confusion
in the doggie mind, and that leads to fights.
In those situations you _must_ enforce a Top Dog if there isn't an
obvious one, and if there _is_ an obvious one you must support and
maintain it despite what your own opinions may be. Dogs don't really
care too much _where_ they are in the pack order, just so long as they
_know_.
Simple things: Top Dog eats first (we found 30 seconds of making the
other dog watch Top Dog eat was sufficient). Top Dog gets attention and
fuss first (but not necessarily more). And...that's about it really.
We made that mistake (treating them equally) with our pair, and it was
loking quite bad for a while, in a "couldn't have them both in the same
room" kind of way. Then we read a bit, mentally LARTed ourselves, and
set about establishing a pack order. Took about a week for it to start
to take effect, and the younger dog happily settled into his place below
the older dog. In fact he doted on him even when the older dog was
_very_ old, and sick. Damn, I've got something in my eye...
The rest of it (to ensure that _you_ are the real Top Dog) is pretty
simple as well: _You_ eat before Top Dog, they don't come up on
sofas/beds/wardrobes, they don't jump up at you for fuss - they should
sit at your feet and look up at you (with English cocker spaniels this
can have a devastating effect, trust me). Simple stuff but so many
people get it wrong.
Jim
--
Note to self: trademark the name "Load Bearing Member" so someone in
the porn industry will pay me a fortune.
Find me at http://www.UrsaMinorBeta.co.uk
Robert Sneddon
<j...@magrathea.plus.com> writes
>The rest of it (to ensure that _you_ are the real Top Dog) is pretty
>simple as well: _You_ eat before Top Dog,
Feeding them your leftovers is just the way things are done in the
pack. You feed them regular dog food as the leftovers aren't going to be
enough, but it all clearly comes from you, the Top Dog.
> they don't come up on
>sofas/beds/wardrobes,
Sofas -- they only get up beside you if they're clearly invited
although they may have a territory area (dog basket, corner) in the
house they will use on their own initiative. It can be a good idea to
invade this area occasionally, turfing them out so they get the idea
this area is YOURS but you allow them to use it most of the time out of
the goodness of your heart. Packs sleep together, even the gammas and
deltas so having them on the bed (or beside it at worst) is also good
pack behaviour. A dog that's locked out of the bedrooms all the time
will start to think of itself as outside the pack.
c...@nospam.netunix.com
> Also, a cat's method of play with another cat is a mock-fight. When
> they rake each other with their claws, they don't use enough pressure
> to get past the fur. What they don't understand is, humans don't have
> fur and what's Just Right with another cat is going to scratch their
> friend.
You have yet to meet MyLittleKitty, AKA BPredatorFH.
14 year old ginger tom is a soft as they come and wants to perch on my
shoulder given a chance. MyLittleKitty is the Jekyll part of the black
kitten who sits sweetly on laps purring contentedly until the Hyde part
takes over randmomly for no apparant reason and BPFH emerges.
The force is strong in that one. Hell hath no fury like a bastard kitty
in attack mode. Nothing dead or alive is immune from attack.
--
From the quill of Chris Newport g4jci.
Peter Corlett
[...]
> It was actually a rather well-reasoned theory: ponies are cute, ponies
> consume a lot of resources and generate a lot of pony poo, ponies must be
> avoided at all costs, ponies can be virtualized into IT projects, and they
> have Strossian overtones.
*reads*
It's a fair cop. I've clearly gotten too wary of long posts in a similar
style from the rest of Usenet.
Jim
> >The rest of it (to ensure that _you_ are the real Top Dog) is pretty
> >simple as well: _You_ eat before Top Dog,
>
> Feeding them your leftovers is just the way things are done in the
> pack. You feed them regular dog food as the leftovers aren't going to be
> enough, but it all clearly comes from you, the Top Dog.
We never fed ours from the table, for two reasons: one, we didn't want
them to make a fuss when we had people over for a meal, and two, because
we found our food generally didn't agree with them. In messy ways.
> > they don't come up on
> >sofas/beds/wardrobes,
>
> Sofas -- they only get up beside you if they're clearly invited
> although they may have a territory area (dog basket, corner) in the
> house they will use on their own initiative. It can be a good idea to
> invade this area occasionally, turfing them out so they get the idea
> this area is YOURS but you allow them to use it most of the time out of
> the goodness of your heart. Packs sleep together, even the gammas and
> deltas so having them on the bed (or beside it at worst) is also good
> pack behaviour. A dog that's locked out of the bedrooms all the time
> will start to think of itself as outside the pack.
Looking back that's pretty much what we did, right down to the
sitting-in-their-baskets bit. They occasionally got invited up onto the
sofa/bed, but it was _always_ an invite. If they tried to take the
initiative they got shouted at[0].
Ours also wouldn't eat without permission. They'd sit in their baskets,
full food bowls 6 feet away, dribbling for Britain, but they wouldn't
eat until we gave them leave. On the whole I think we did pretty well
with them. And damn but I miss them.
Jim
[0] Only a bit though, just enough to make the point. And then they got
fussed a few minutes later, just to let them know that everything was
okay.
--
Things I have learned today: Shouting "headshot!" when Bambi's Mum
gets it is apparently frowned upon.
Robert Sneddon
<j...@magrathea.plus.com> writes
>Robert Sneddon <fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Feeding them your leftovers is just the way things are done in the
>> pack.
>We never fed ours from the table,
Gods no, but afterwards scrape your plate into their dish, even if
there's not much left but grease. Chop bones are ambrosia to a dog, but
it's food from the Top Dog's own hands, that's the important thing.
Brian Kantor
>object very much, and this catches it by surprise.
Blunting its claws requires only monthly snippage, and keeps all parties
happy, except the fluffy one briefly during the process. The Roomba
cheefully picks up the fragments.
- Brian
Julian Macassey
My cats climb trees and like to play on teh barn roof, so
they need sharp claws. The black one likes to ddart up the
nearest tree when a dog is sighted. So they need those razor
sharp claws - alas.
And I have the scars to prove it.
--
"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq
to the war on terror." -George W. Bush Sept. 6, 2006
Joe Zeff
Snippage doesn't blunt them for any longer than it takes them to
nibble/claw them back to points. What it does is shorten them enough
that they're unlikely to scratch you until they've grown back out.
HTH, HAND and all that rot.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
As I said it before, all mushrooms are edible, some
of them only once.
http://www.lasfs.info http://www.zeff.us
The Horny Goat
>although they may have a territory area (dog basket, corner) in the
>house they will use on their own initiative. It can be a good idea to
>invade this area occasionally, turfing them out so they get the idea
>this area is YOURS but you allow them to use it most of the time out of
>the goodness of your heart. Packs sleep together, even the gammas and
>deltas so having them on the bed (or beside it at worst) is also good
>pack behaviour. A dog that's locked out of the bedrooms all the time
>will start to think of itself as outside the pack.
We recently adopted a 5 year old Corgi cross (we haven't figured out
with what but he's twice as big as any Corgi has any business being
though his coloration is perfect for a Corgi) who is anything BUT an
alpha. Our daughter is away at university so we give him her bedroom
at night though when she was home for Christmas we made him sleep
elsewhere. (Which seems to address your second point) Her bedroom is
next door to ours and around the corner from our son so he's close to
us but not allowed in our room.
When I'm at my computer at home there's enough stuff piled in boxes
that when I get up to go to the bathroom or kitchen I make him back up
(about 8-10' or so) so that I can get by - for no particular reason
other than to remind him I'm the top dog.
Which is quite different from our recently (6 months ago) departed 14
year old female Corgi who was totally convinced that SWMBO was
undisputed top dog...
Shmuel Metz
at 11:18 AM, Robert Sneddon <fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> said:
> Raised right, no healthy dog is a danger to any human being that is
>willing to meet it halfway. I exclude humans who try and commit violence
>on close pack members or intrude into close pack territory
>inappropriately (i.e. muggers and burglars)
E.g., small children. A healthy dog should tolerate a certain amount of
abuse from the puppies.
My problem with dogs is that they, like cats, recognize me as an alpha
sucker. No aggressive behavior, just a blatant play for sympathy.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
Shmuel Metz
at 11:05 AM, ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) said:
>Your copy of the Bat Book is looking a bit dog-eared and you need to put
>a new cover on it?
Why not buy the new edition?
Yeah, I know, you still have editions 1 and 2 and if you didn't toss them
then you're not about to toss 3.
Robert Sneddon
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes
>In <ExNWe6EP...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, on 02/21/2008
> at 11:18 AM, Robert Sneddon <fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> said:
>
>> Raised right, no healthy dog is a danger to any human being that is
>>willing to meet it halfway.
>
>abuse from the puppies.
Oh yes, they're a special case as I mentioned in another post.
When I was a kid, young and stupid, I spent time playing with a nearby
farmer's dog (we never had family dogs when I was young). This was a
yard dog on a running chain all the time. I'd crawl into the dog's
kennel with it and it wouldn't alarm or be aggressive in any way, just
lie on the straw while I petted it. If I'd been ten years older it would
have had my arm off at the shoulder if I tried that.
>My problem with dogs is that they, like cats, recognize me as an alpha
>sucker. No aggressive behavior, just a blatant play for sympathy.
That's OK too. Alphas can be sweet-talked and shined, but real Top Dogs
know it's happening and will tolerate it. To a point. Encouraging
infantilism and dependency in dogs is Not Good.
Robert Uhl
>
> Cats aren't pack animals and they aren't domesticated. AIUI, they're
> classified as "wild domestic," meaning wild animals that live with
> mankind.
One of the many reasons I don't understand people who keep them. The
only wild animals that make it through my door are dead, eviscerated and
destined for the cookpot, the oven or the grill in short order.
> One of the reasons is that until fairly recently, the main reason most
> people kept cats was for pest control, and that required us to avoid
> mucking with their hunting instincts.
It's the only reason I know of to keep them. They're pretty good at
that. But for companionship and use (try hunting pheasants with a cat!)
a dog's the thing for me.
--
Cancel me not--for what then shall remain?
Abscissas, some mantissas, modules, modes,
A root or two, a torus and a node:
The inverse of my verse, a null domain. --Stanislaw Lem, Cyberiad
Robert Uhl
>
> The rest of it (to ensure that _you_ are the real Top Dog) is pretty
> simple as well: _You_ eat before Top Dog, they don't come up on
> sofas/beds/wardrobes, they don't jump up at you for fuss - they should
> sit at your feet and look up at you (with English cocker spaniels this
> can have a devastating effect, trust me). Simple stuff but so many
> people get it wrong.
You know, I wonder if that's why the last dog I hunted with absolutely
wouldn't mind me, but mind the other two guys we were with: they were in
the front of the truck while the dog was in the back seat with me.
Perhaps in its small doggy mind that meant we were equals and the other
two were betters.
Hmmm...
--
If you give alms from compassion, why require the beneficiary to be 'a
deserving object'? No other adversity is so sharp as destitution of merit.
--Ambrose Bierce, Epigrams of a Cynic
Maarten Wiltink
news:m3lk5b3...@latakia.dyndns.org...
> Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfs.info> writes:
>> Cats aren't pack animals and they aren't domesticated. AIUI, they're
>> classified as "wild domestic," meaning wild animals that live with
>> mankind.
>
> One of the many reasons I don't understand people who keep them. The
> only wild animals that make it through my door are dead, eviscerated
> and destined for the cookpot, the oven or the grill in short order.
Cat people feel the same way about you. What are you, some sort of
insecure bully? Do you need to assert your superiority over an animal
a tenth your size to feel good about yourself?
Here is a cat. She sleeps near me, because she wants to. She lets me
pet her when I want to... if she wants to. She's soft and cuddly and
in the last instance, independent. Much as I like my humans.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Joe Zeff
<eadm...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>But for companionship and use (try hunting pheasants with a cat!)
>a dog's the thing for me.
I get plenty of companionship from my cat, TYVM. If I were a hunter
and were interested in hunting pheasants, I too would use a dog. It's
part of that "right tool for the job" mentality.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
I would hope that's equine sado-necro-bestiality, BYKIOK.
http://www.lasfs.info http://www.zeff.us
Robert Sneddon
<maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes
>Here is a cat.
> She's soft and cuddly
And covered in spit.
Bill
> On 2008-02-18, Szechuan Death <sde...@sdeath.net> wrote:
>> BOFHs get on with the Good Work, before they wind up chained to a
>> lamppost in the goddamned parking lot and FLAYED ALIVE with a cat of
>> nine-tails as an example to the rest of the fucking lusers...
>
> What's the fscking point of flaying someone that is not alive?
>
A belt?
--
From a certain point onward there is no longer any turning back. That is
the point that must be reached.
-- F. Kafka
Phil Launchbury
>
> OTOH kids get away with murder when dogs are around; they can mistreat
> Woofie, pull his ears, hit him with toys etc. and (assuming the dog has
> been well-brought-up) he will tolerate it in a way he wouldn't if an
When I was a kid we had one particular horror visit us that was
fascinated by poking our boxer in the eye. Now this was a (normally)
fairly assertive dog (with other dogs anyway - and not aggressive just
"this is what I want and you are going to do it" sort of assertive. And
never had a fight in her life - other dogs just did as they were told.
It helped that she had her (very big) son to back her up..)
Anyway - said horror had been told multiple times my parent process to
leave the dog alone but kept sneaking off to poke her in the eye.
In the end the dog just stood up (face to face with child), bared her
teeth and did her best "I'm going to dismember you slowly and dance on
the remains" growl.
Said kiddie promptly wet herself and went screaming to parents. Who
were remarkably unsympathetic to the little monster.
One hopes it learned from the experience. However my experience with
lusers would tend to indicate not..
> adult was doing that sort of thing. Junior members of the pack get a lot
> of slack.
Indeed.
Phil.
--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'
Phil Launchbury
>
> I tend to describe this as "you don't beat-up your pals, there's no need
> to".
"And your pals may well be providing food at some point"
> Dogs, properly socialised, tend to work the same way.
Indeed. Our dominant bitch spens a lot of time cleaning the ears of the
ones below her in the pack. And the dominant male cleans all of their
ears.
Us stroking their head and ears is probably a similar feeling.
> [1]Wolves have unpleasantly aromatic earwax. Trust me on this.
I'll take your word for it.
Phil
Phil Launchbury
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:47:13 +0000, Phil Launchbury
><ph...@launchbury.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>But I have *lots* of scars from cats...
>
> Well, yes. Cats aren't pack animals and they aren't domesticated.
> AIUI, they're classified as "wild domestic," meaning wild animals that
Indeed. And in right-pondia you are liable for insurance claims if your
dog damages something but not if your cat does.
Sadly getting permits to keep Bengal Tigers in your back garden is very
very difficult.
> Also, a cat's method of play with another cat is a mock-fight. When
> they rake each other with their claws, they don't use enough pressure
> to get past the fur. What they don't understand is, humans don't have
> fur and what's Just Right with another cat is going to scratch their
> friend.
Our two new(ish) ones are very good. No wounds from either one they got
past the 'kitten-rash' stage.
And the male has just discovered he like mouse-front ends. Which is why
we keep finding backend-of-mouse in the kitchen in the mornings..
Phil Launchbury
> Anthony de Boer - USEnet <ab...@leftmind.net> wrote:
>>when the silly thing sinks its claws into my bare feet in the morning I
>>object very much, and this catches it by surprise.
>
> Blunting its claws requires only monthly snippage, and keeps all parties
The only cat whose claws we need to clip is our 17-year old - she
doesn't really get out much and so her claws tend to get long. She does
still sharpen the front ones though - mostly on the new young male cat
when he pats her on the bottom..
> happy, except the fluffy one briefly during the process. The Roomba
> cheefully picks up the fragments.
Or in my case the Staffie-cross dog does the honours. Especially when
we clip the other dogs claws..
Phil Launchbury
> Phil Launchbury <ph...@launchbury.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Which is why the first thing I do when meeting a strange dog is let
>> them sniff my hands and legs. This mimics the behaviour dogs use amonst
>> themselves and gets the relationship off to a good start..
>
> Another common mistake is when people have two dogs and treat them
> equally. This is Very Bad, especially if the dogs haven't settled on
> which of them is Top Dog (below you, of course). It leads to confusion
> in the doggie mind, and that leads to fights.
Yup. Our male *always* is first to get any treats. And gets the
majority of the attention.
> Simple things: Top Dog eats first (we found 30 seconds of making the
> other dog watch Top Dog eat was sufficient). Top Dog gets attention and
> fuss first (but not necessarily more). And...that's about it really.
Sounds like us.
>
> simple as well: _You_ eat before Top Dog, they don't come up on
> sofas/beds/wardrobes, they don't jump up at you for fuss - they should
And *most* especially they don't get on the bed and lie on you while
you are still in bed. The dominant one likes on top of the subordinate
and all that..
And the thing I've noticed is that they only play with the one
immediately below or above them in the pack - Jed plays with Suzie but
not with Tiggie, tiggie plays with Suzie *or* Jasmine but Suzie never
plays with Jasmine and Jasmine only plays with Tiggie..
Cats of course lord it over all of them. Especially the new ones that
came in as kittens with dogs already in place. The dogs have just about
lost the look of fear that used to cross their faces when the old male
looked at them in annoyance..
Phil Launchbury
> In message <1icp867.1gxr7id1tkrdjN%j...@magrathea.plus.com>, Jim
><j...@magrathea.plus.com> writes
>
>>The rest of it (to ensure that _you_ are the real Top Dog) is pretty
>
> enough, but it all clearly comes from you, the Top Dog.
>
>>sofas/beds/wardrobes,
>
Indeed. A firm "no" and pushing off the sofa works. Then later invite
them up (with preferance given to the alpha canine so if he wants to
come on the sofa and the beta is there she has to move because there
ain't enough room for two people and two rottie-cross dogs on our
sofa..)
> the goodness of your heart. Packs sleep together, even the gammas and
> deltas so having them on the bed (or beside it at worst) is also good
> pack behaviour. A dog that's locked out of the bedrooms all the time
> will start to think of itself as outside the pack.
Indeed. Alpha male sleeps on a vetbed by my side of the bed and the
females sleep on beds by Cheryls side of the bed. Dominant female
sleeps out on the landing at the top of the stairs but our bedroom door
is always open so it still counts as 'with the pack' (it's only about a
metre away from our bedroom)
Phil.
Phil Launchbury
> plate for the cat, so begging is no use. Plates anywhere but on the
> table are free game however. So if the food we ate isn't harmful
> (salted food is right out), the plate may get set on the floor for the
> cat to lick off.
Likewise. cat+dog (with cats having plates before dogs).
> And of course, cats are incorrigible thieves. Leave the room, and
> kitty *will* jump on the table to see if there is anything to steal.
Kitty and/or Staffie cross. She can jump to most places the cats can
and (as a rescue dog) comes with a much stonger scavenging instinct.
> ObFelineRecovery: I activated the Atlantis screensaver. I also have
Our two new ones enjoy trying to catch the mouse cursor. And since we
have a big fishtank (300 litres) the cats get all the tabbyvision
fish-watching their murderous little hearts can desire :-)
Mind you the young female keeps wanting to dig her way into the tank.
Oh - and the male was quite clearing wanting to catch the Springbok
(animal not rugby) that was on a nature program we watched recently..
Phil Launchbury
> shoulder given a chance. MyLittleKitty is the Jekyll part of the black
> kitten who sits sweetly on laps purring contentedly until the Hyde part
> takes over randmomly for no apparant reason and BPFH emerges.
> The force is strong in that one. Hell hath no fury like a bastard kitty
> in attack mode. Nothing dead or alive is immune from attack.
Sounds like she has strong tortoiseshell tendancies. They are all a bit
psycopathic..
Our current Calico (ie tortie and white) was a bit that way but has
mellowed over the last 17 years..
Phil Launchbury
> In message <47c1a05e$0$14356$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>, Maarten Wiltink
><maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes
>
>>Here is a cat.
>> She's soft and cuddly
>
> And covered in spit.
But at least she cleans herself and doesn't roll in fox-scat (unlike
the dogs!).
Cats are great companions. Treat them well and bring them up right and
they'll be with you for life. If I didn't have a cat of some sort
sleeping on my feet at night I'd feel miserable[1]..
Phil.
[1] And spookily NewMale sleeps in the same places as OldMale used to.
And there was a two month gap between OldMale kicking the bucket and
NewMale arriving. NewFemale also sleeps on my feet..
Robert Sneddon
Launchbury <ph...@launchbury.org.uk> writes
>In article <n69uciIz...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, Robert Sneddon wrote:
>> In message <47c1a05e$0$14356$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>, Maarten Wiltink
>><maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes
>>
>>>Here is a cat.
>>> She's soft and cuddly
>>
>> And covered in spit.
>
>But at least she cleans herself
Ummm, the spit is what she cleans herself with.
> and doesn't roll in fox-scat (unlike
>the dogs!).
You can hose dogs down -- in other than really cold weather they
usually enjoy it (at least Lab crosses do). We used to do that after Boy
the Wonder Dog came back from rolling in the dead sheep he had found
half-sunk somewhere in the bog. His sister, Bimbo and and brother Sweep
The Stupid Border Collie cross (and that is pretty nearly a non
sequitur) would fight to get in on the action. Turning a hose on a cat
may well be justified in a lot of cases, but "me me me!" is not going to
be their reaction to the soaking.
>Cats are great companions.
>[1] And spookily NewMale sleeps in the same places as OldMale used to.
>And there was a two month gap between OldMale kicking the bucket and
>NewMale arriving.
Smells linger. A couple of food apes I know have territorial arguments
between their two owners break out when they wash the bed linen. It
settles down after a day or two when the nesting areas get properly
re-perfumed.
Shmuel Metz
at 11:52 PM, Robert Sneddon <fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> said:
> That's OK too. Alphas can be sweet-talked and shined, but real Top Dogs
>know it's happening and will tolerate it. To a point. Encouraging
>infantilism and dependency in dogs is Not Good.
Oh, I don't mean my own dog, or my family's dog, I mean any cat or dog
that sees me. Including a dog that the father of my brother's ex-wife
claimed was vicious[1]. They don't know me from 'Adam, but they size me up
and immediately figure out that if they act destitute and unloved I'll
fall for it. Or is that behavior the standard way to respond to the alpha
male of a different pack? If the latter, how do they evaluate his status
when the rest of the pack isn't there for contrast?
And, yes, I will eventually decide that enough is enough, and they accept
it in good grace, but I can certainly be prevailed upon considerably with
the right "nobody wuvs me" expression.
[1] Does shedding leaves on me count as an attack?
Phil Launchbury
> In message <slrnfs5a75...@tabby.launchbury.org.uk>, Phil
> Launchbury <ph...@launchbury.org.uk> writes
>>In article <n69uciIz...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, Robert Sneddon wrote:
>>> In message <47c1a05e$0$14356$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>, Maarten Wiltink
>>><maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes
>>>
>>>>Here is a cat.
>>>> She's soft and cuddly
>>>
>>> And covered in spit.
>>
>>But at least she cleans herself
>
> Ummm, the spit is what she cleans herself with.
And how do you think dogs clean themselves? They lick themselves. And
dogs eat stuff a *lot* more disgusting than catfood (as in 2nd-hand,
pre-processed, been-through-the-cat catfood..)
Out of the two I'd *far* rather be licked by a cat. Or stroke a cat
that's licked itself.
>
>> and doesn't roll in fox-scat (unlike
>>the dogs!).
>
> You can hose dogs down -- in other than really cold weather they
You miss the point (and hosing them down does very little for the smell
or the various bacteria that the dogs pick up when they roll - you need
some sort of fairly powerful detergent for that).
The other thing is that cleaning with strong detergents changes the
dogs smell considerably by removing their coat oils. And smell is the
no.1 method of reinforcing the pack bond..
> may well be justified in a lot of cases, but "me me me!" is not going to
> be their reaction to the soaking.
Oh I dunno - I've had cats that are happy swimming around in the bath
(before the bath salts go in!)
>>[1] And spookily NewMale sleeps in the same places as OldMale used to.
>>And there was a two month gap between OldMale kicking the bucket and
>>NewMale arriving.
>
> Smells linger. A couple of food apes I know have territorial arguments
Indeed. But the blanket on the foot of the bed had been changed twice
in that time (and washed obviously!). And not gone back on in the same
orientation..
I reckon they can smell my feet through the bedclothes :-)
Phil.
Tai
> And how do you think dogs clean themselves? They lick themselves. And
> dogs eat stuff a *lot* more disgusting than catfood (as in 2nd-hand,
> pre-processed, been-through-the-cat catfood..)
Shirley that's _post_-processed?
-Tai
--
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html
http://www.kenthamilton.net/humor/humor.html
http://www.despair.com/demotivators/cluelessness.html
"What we have done with PCs so far is not natural" - Craig Mundie, CTO Microsoft
Zebee Johnstone
Phil Launchbury <ph...@launchbury.org.uk> wrote:
>
> And how do you think dogs clean themselves? They lick themselves. And
But only the white bits if Mac the Bullterrier/Kelpie cross was
anything to go by.
Zebee
Tai
> Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> writes:
>> But only the white bits if Mac the Bullterrier/Kelpie cross was
>> anything to go by.
>
> folklore that is believed to haunt the rivers and lochs of Scotland
> and Ireland." -- wikipedia
>
> So... where and how did you get hold of one?
Can't you read? Obviously from the rivers and locks of Scotland
and Ireland. Bah, newbies.
Richard Bos
> In article <47beb008$0$508$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>, c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com wrote:
>
> > shoulder given a chance. MyLittleKitty is the Jekyll part of the black
> > kitten who sits sweetly on laps purring contentedly until the Hyde part
> > takes over randmomly for no apparant reason and BPFH emerges.
> > The force is strong in that one. Hell hath no fury like a bastard kitty
> > in attack mode. Nothing dead or alive is immune from attack.
>
> Sounds like she has strong tortoiseshell tendancies. They are all a bit
> psycopathic..
Feh. All cats are, regardless of colour.
Richard
c...@nospam.netunix.com
> In article <47beb008$0$508$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>, c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com wrote:
>
> > shoulder given a chance. MyLittleKitty is the Jekyll part of the black
> > kitten who sits sweetly on laps purring contentedly until the Hyde part
> > takes over randmomly for no apparant reason and BPFH emerges.
> > The force is strong in that one. Hell hath no fury like a bastard kitty
> > in attack mode. Nothing dead or alive is immune from attack.
>
> Sounds like she has strong tortoiseshell tendancies. They are all a bit
> psycopathic..
>
> Our current Calico (ie tortie and white) was a bit that way but has
> mellowed over the last 17 years..
Nope, she came from a local farm. Both parents and several generations
back are pure black, which is unusual because most black cats are female
and most have a white patch under the neck.
The cultural belief that black cats are evil familiars probably has some
justification. Farm cats in general, however, tend to be only marginally
domesticated. This particular example is a bundle of neurosis.
--
From the quill of Chris Newport g4jci.
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> In article <SNjTxZF3...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, Robert Sneddon wrote:
>>> they don't come up on
>>>sofas/beds/wardrobes,
>>
>> Sofas -- they only get up beside you if they're clearly invited
>
> Indeed. A firm "no" and pushing off the sofa works. Then later invite
> them up (with preferance given to the alpha canine so if he wants to
> come on the sofa and the beta is there she has to move because there
> ain't enough room for two people and two rottie-cross dogs on our
> sofa..)
My dearly departed male cat always sat on my lap whenever it became
free, and otherwise. Very occasionally, the girl would sit on my lap.
He'd wait til she settled, then jumped up and sat on her and wriggled
til she left. At this point (or even before it) in time, I'd shove
him off, but he'd still do it next time.
Now she's top cat.
--
TimC
"Perhaps the truth is less interesting than the facts?"
-- Amy Weiss, RIAA's Senior Vice President of Propaganda^WCommunications
Peter Corlett
> ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) said:
[...]
>> Your copy of the Bat Book is looking a bit dog-eared and you need to put
>> a new cover on it?
> Why not buy the new edition?
Because nobody in their right mind would be doing a *new* deployment of
BatMTA so the previous edition will be fine.
--
Improvable Tripe: http://tripe.cabal.org.uk/
Robert Uhl
>
>>> Cats aren't pack animals and they aren't domesticated. AIUI, they're
>>> classified as "wild domestic," meaning wild animals that live with
>>> mankind.
>>
>> One of the many reasons I don't understand people who keep them. The
>> only wild animals that make it through my door are dead, eviscerated
>> and destined for the cookpot, the oven or the grill in short order.
>
> Cat people feel the same way about you. What are you, some sort of
> insecure bully?
No, I just don't allow wild animals into the house. No bears, lions,
moose, deer or cats allowed.
Of course, I don't allow many _domesticated_ animals into the house
either...
> Do you need to assert your superiority over an animal a tenth your
> size to feel good about yourself?
Huh?
--
> It's been said that a symptom of insanity is the repetition of a pattern of
> actions while expecting a different result from the last time.
That explains the people who buy M$ software, then!
--Mike A. to Shiksaa, in nanae
Brian Kantor
>One of the many reasons I don't understand people who keep them.
I don't "keep" cats; I couldn't if I wanted to. They stay of
their own free will, and I enjoy the company. I particularly
like it because I realize that, unlike a dog, they're capable
of the choice. They know they've got me suckered.
- Brian
Brian Kantor
>Of course, I don't allow many _domesticated_ animals into the house
>either...
Humans too? Must be lonely.
- Brian
David Cameron Staples
I imagine feral and wild humans might be permissible.
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT csse DOT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
<django23> I have a stupid question: what does "sendmail" do?
<Epesh> django: you're right, that is pretty stupid -- bash.org/?5272
Matt Erickson
pondered onto the tubes:
> in Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:36:40 +0000, Brian Kantor in hic locum scripsit:
>
>> Robert Uhl <eadm...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>Of course, I don't allow many _domesticated_ animals into the house
>>>either...
>>
>> Humans too? Must be lonely.
>
> I imagine feral and wild humans might be permissible.
I get too many of them at work, and I have no desire to bring them
into my home.
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
"We live in the interface between radioactive molten rock and hard vacuum and
we worry about safety." -- Chris Hunt
Peter Corlett
[...]
> I imagine feral and wild humans might be permissible.
IME, they tend to let themselves into your home, invite or not.
Maarten Wiltink
news:fq4h4m$t2j$1...@mooli.org.uk...
> David Cameron Staples <sta...@cs.mu.oz.au.SPAM> wrote:
>> I imagine feral and wild humans might be permissible.
>
> IME, they tend to let themselves into your home, invite or not.
Then you should install a smaller catflap.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Richard Bos
> In article <7fkrr31rbhjnfdin4...@4ax.com>, Joe Zeff wrote:
> > Well, yes. Cats aren't pack animals and they aren't domesticated.
> > AIUI, they're classified as "wild domestic," meaning wild animals that
> > live with mankind. One of the reasons is that until fairly recently,
>
> Indeed. And in right-pondia you are liable for insurance claims if your
> dog damages something but not if your cat does.
Which, neatly though unfortunately, parallels the sense of
responsibility of their respective owners. And also whether or not you
have to pay tax for owning them. Me, I'd tax cats more than dogs, on the
grounds that at least dog owners have the decency to clean up after
their pets.
Richard
Maarten Wiltink
news:47cc7aed...@news.xs4all.nl...
> [...] Me, I'd tax cats more than dogs,
> on the grounds that at least dog owners have the decency to clean up
> after their pets.
Yeah right.
Cats not only put it more out of the way to begin with, they clean up
after _themselves_.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Michel Buijsman
> "Richard Bos" <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
>> on the grounds that at least dog owners have the decency to clean up
>> after their pets.
>
> Yeah right.
>
> Cats not only put it more out of the way to begin with, they clean up
> after _themselves_.
Yeah right.
Ever been the only non-cat-owner on the block, trying
to sit outside in the garden on a nice summer day?
--
Michel Buijsman
"Waking up this morning was a pointless act of masochism" -- Girl
Paul
@rubberchicken.nocrap:
> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:42:22 +0100, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
>> "Richard Bos" <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
>>> [...] Me, I'd tax cats more than dogs,
>>> on the grounds that at least dog owners have the decency to clean up
>>> after their pets.
>>
>> Yeah right.
>>
>> Cats not only put it more out of the way to begin with, they clean up
>> after _themselves_.
>
> Yeah right.
>
> Ever been the only non-cat-owner on the block, trying
> to sit outside in the garden on a nice summer day?
>
More proof that you need a cat to play BCFH to the neighbor cats.
--
Paul
Jasper Janssen
>Which, neatly though unfortunately, parallels the sense of
>responsibility of their respective owners. And also whether or not you
>have to pay tax for owning them. Me, I'd tax cats more than dogs, on the
>grounds that at least dog owners have the decency to clean up after
>their pets.
In which universe?
Oh yeah, the one where everybody runs a good OS and/or decent antivirus..
Jasper
Peter Corlett
[...]
> Alas now there are whole tribes of Badgers[1] and Foxes living in the
> backyard, whose collective emissions are both deeply fouler-smelling and
> more-widely-distributed than anything feline or canine.
Have you considered getting a sausage machine?
http://laager.firedrake.org/archive/20080302.html
Jim
> [1]OnqtreonqtreonqtreonqtreonqtreZHFUEBBZ!
Tvg.
Jim
--
Things I have learned today: Shouting "headshot!" when Bambi's Mum
gets it is apparently frowned upon.
Find me at http://www.UrsaMinorBeta.co.uk
Tai
> Alas now there are whole tribes of Badgers[1] and Foxes living in the
> backyard, whose collective emissions are both deeply fouler-smelling
> and more-widely-distributed than anything feline or canine.
Heh. I had a mother raccoon which gave birth to 2 babies, one
albino! My kids loved it. They used to crawl around the roof, and
would like to sun themselves on the skylight, so we got to see them all
relaxed and stuff.
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
>> [1]OnqtreonqtreonqtreonqtreonqtreZHFUEBBZ!
>
> Tvg.
The LCA after that video led to hundreds (nay tens) of geeks sitting
around the projector doing the badger. It was amusing. For simple
minds like mine.
--
TimC
All computers wait at the same speed.