do my homework for me
Jeremy Billones
Alan J Rosenthal <fl...@dgp.toronto.edu> wrote:
>I really have a bad feeling about this. I've seen a much larger amount
>of "Septemberism" than usual on usenet recently. There is an obvious
>reason[1], but I'm really nervous it's not going to taper off. The last
>September which usenet Septemberism tapered off after was September 1992.
>Since then it's just up, up, up.
On another group, I slagged someone for asking about song lyrics, saying
something to the effect of, "The internet has all this info just a couple
of keystrokes away. Use it." And someone replied, "They decided to use
a couple of keystrokes on Usenet instead of the Web. What's the problem?"
*boggle*
--
Jeremy Billones
"You bust through the door and create a diversion. They all turn and aim
at you. You try to sweet talk them out of blowing your brains out while I
sneak around back, bust in, and *really* surprise 'em."
Alan J Rosenthal
never before any as blatant as the ones recently posted to comp.security.misc
by hmos...@email.msn.com.
Sample article:
>What are the advantages of placing functionality in a device controller, =
>rather than in the kernel. State two disadvantages
Sheesh! And he posted each homework question as a separate message, for a
total of about 7 few-line messages.
I really have a bad feeling about this. I've seen a much larger amount
of "Septemberism" than usual on usenet recently. There is an obvious
reason[1], but I'm really nervous it's not going to taper off. The last
September which usenet Septemberism tapered off after was September 1992.
Since then it's just up, up, up.
--
[1] it's September at the moment, at least in the northern hemisphere
Matthew D. Lammers
>never before any as blatant as the ones recently posted to comp.security.misc
>by hmos...@email.msn.com.
>
And of course, you obliged in true BOFH fashion by giving the "correct"
answers to this person, right?
-Matt.
--
Matthew D. Lammers,
Columbus, Ohio, US
Abigail
in <URL:news:7s654u$oes$1...@saltmine.radix.net>:
++
++ On another group, I slagged someone for asking about song lyrics, saying
++ something to the effect of, "The internet has all this info just a couple
++ of keystrokes away. Use it." And someone replied, "They decided to use
++ a couple of keystrokes on Usenet instead of the Web. What's the problem?"
comp.lang.perl.misc has always had many people asking FAQs, things that
are found trivially in the manual, or asking off-topic topic question.
But nowadays, if you complain about such questions, or just tell them
to RTFM, people start whining we should cuddle the lusers and that it
wouldn't be hard for us to just copy-and-paste the answer from the manual.
A typical defense is "I don't have the time to read the manual". As if the
people answering questions have more time than those frigging lusers.
Not to mention the horrible appearance of luser posts. Replies before the
article (fully quoted, included sigs) replied to, lines that never stop,
or lines that have a newline inserted just before the last word. And if
you point that out, all you get is more lusers that are whining.
Usenet should require licenses; licenses that can be revoked.
Abigail
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Stephen Harris
: On another group, I slagged someone for asking about song lyrics, saying
Someone on the HP Admin mailing list asked about the BOFH web site. He seemed
a little put-out when he got a BOFHish reply about off-topic postings :-)
--
rgds
Stephen
Chris King
<abi...@delanet.com> writes
>A typical defense is "I don't have the time to read the manual". As if the
>people answering questions have more time than those frigging lusers.
My response to such people ? "If you haven't got time to RTFM, you
haven't got time to whine on Usenet about it".
Chris
--
Chris King
ch...@csking.demon.co.uk
http://www.csking.demon.co.uk
D. Joseph Creighton
}Usenet should require licenses; licenses that can be revoked.
Amen, sister.
Case in point: comp.databases.sybase used to be a low-traffic, high-signal
froup with regular replies from folks @sybase.com on very complex issues.
Today, it seems to be filled with induhviduals trying to grasp very basic
configuration details and creating databases just so they can put "DBA" on
their resumes.
- Joe
--
"Never get your safety tips from the Internet." - Jay Rudin, rec.sport.fencing
D. Joseph Creighton [ESTP] | Programmer Analyst, Database Technologies, IST
Joe_Cr...@UManitoba.CA | University of Manitoba Winnipeg, MB, Canada, eh?
Joe Zeff
>My response to such people ? "If you haven't got time to RTFM, you
>haven't got time to whine on Usenet about it".
Snarffed for the .sig file. Thanx!
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
The point here is that there are stupid people all over.
http://www.lasfs.org http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz
Alan J Rosenthal
>A typical defense is "I don't have the time to read the manual". As if the
>people answering questions have more time than those frigging lusers.
Yeah. I once wrote "I think I'm busier than you. We can compare details
if you like."
Though that was slightly different, on the topic of the request to send the
reply by e-mail rather than posting it; but there was the same dynamic,
where he said he didn't have time to check the newsgroup, but seemed to
be asking us to spend the time on his problem. I continued, "For future
reference, I think it's impolite to ask me to spend time on your case and
not even be willing to do a simple dejanews subject search to find my reply.
It is, after all, your problem. I'm spending more time on writing this
message than you will spend reading it; I think you should be willing to
spend the small amount of time to find the reply.
Chris King
<d...@cc.umanitoba.ca> writes
>Case in point: comp.databases.sybase used to be a low-traffic, high-signal
>froup with regular replies from folks @sybase.com on very complex issues.
>Today, it seems to be filled with induhviduals trying to grasp very basic
>configuration details and creating databases just so they can put "DBA" on
>their resumes.
Most of those DBA-weenies wouldn't know what a primary key was, even if
it whacked 'em over the head and introduced itself.
Mike Knell
In article <7s654u$oes$1...@saltmine.radix.net>,
Jeremy Billones <bill...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>On another group, I slagged someone for asking about song lyrics, saying
>something to the effect of, "The internet has all this info just a couple
>of keystrokes away. Use it." And someone replied, "They decided to use
>a couple of keystrokes on Usenet instead of the Web. What's the problem?"
Over on alt.fan.pratchett this kind of thing's _always_ happening -
it's a 'froup with a "let's all be nice and sunny to everyone, la la,
pink fluffy bunnies" outlook [1] and so there are folks who will leap
on you from a great height for even _suggesting_ that someone should
really go and read the FAQ if they want tpratchett's email
address. There's also the "use it as a general information resource"
people - there was a request for some song lyrics that Alta Vista
found about fifty hits to a while ago, and the people who said "hey,
it's on the web" also got leapt on from a great height. Sigh.
Mike "help, help, a herrible hoffalump" K.
[1] Well, face it, lurking afpers. It is. Sometimes the place seems to
be populated almost entirely by clones of Fr. Dougal Maguire. [2]
[2] And the odd Fr. Jack, fortunately.
Gid Holyoake
decided to share with us..
Snippetry..
> [1] Well, face it, lurking afpers. It is. Sometimes the place seems to
> be populated almost entirely by clones of Fr. Dougal Maguire. [2]
>
> [2] And the odd Fr. Jack, fortunately.
Feck!.. there isn't one of those on there is there?.. Arse!.. point 'em
out to me Mike, and I'll sort 'em out.. it'll be girls next, you mark my
words..
Gid
--
The Most Noble and Exalted Peculiar , Harem Master to Veiled Concubines
Guardian of the Sacred !!!!!'s , Defender of the Temple of AFPdoration
ISTP http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/ for The Irrelevant Page! MJBC
D. Joseph Creighton
}In article <7s69ul$nsv$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, D. Joseph Creighton
}<d...@cc.umanitoba.ca> writes
}
}Most of those DBA-weenies wouldn't know what a primary key was, even if
}it whacked 'em over the head and introduced itself.
DB: "Hello, I'm a primary key. This is my foreign key. Welcome to our
Third Normal Form home."
DBA-w: *blink*
DB: "Time to die."
Yeah, I can see it happening...
- Joe
--
"One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making
exciting discoveries." -- A. A. Milne
Eric The Read
> Most of those DBA-weenies wouldn't know what a primary key was, even if
> it whacked 'em over the head and introduced itself.
"You wouldn't know a primary key if it dressed up in a tutu, and danced
on the table singing `Primary Keys Are Here Again'!"
No points for mangled STR.
-=Eric
Lapis Lazuli
>"You wouldn't know a primary key if it dressed up in a tutu, and danced
>on the table singing `Primary Keys Are Here Again'!"
>
>No points for mangled STR.
>
Yes, but it's an STR so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it
a weasel.
I claim Rowan Atkinson in tights.
-Lapis
--
lapis at teatime dot com
Most people would sooner die than think;
in fact, they do so. --Bertrand Russell
Earl Grey
Abigail wrote:
> Usenet should require licenses; licenses that can be revoked.
<CLAP><CLAP><CLAP>
--
"If UNIX is dead,
the necromancer who is animating the corpse
is doing a d&mn fine job" (Par Leijonhufvud) http://kapu.net/~bofh/
Peter da Silva
Nir Soffer <scor...@amos-01.cs.huji.ac.il> wrote:
> ObRecovery: I had a pleasant surprise today. I got to the office a tad
> late, thinking people would be pissed off. But then they reminded me it's
> beach day since someone is leaving work. All I did all day was eat food,
> lounge around on the beach and play volleyball.
You utter, utter bastard.
--
In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <pe...@baileynm.com>
`-_-' Ar rug tú barróg ar do mhactíre inniu?
'U` << <KH> you did technical support for Hell ?
<susan> Didn't we all, in our youth? >:) >>
Felix Kasza
> You utter, utter bastard.
A subjective judgement, surely? To me, hanging around under that big
ugly orb in the sky would be a serious LARTing; I do not envy Nir a bit.
--
Cheers,
Felix.
Stephen Harris
: beach day since someone is leaving work. All I did all day was eat food,
: lounge around on the beach and play volleyball.
Last Friday was relatively nice. Went down the pub at 1300. My (semi)PHB
was there and bought two rounds. And for some reason I haven't been able to
work out I didn't leave the pub until 2130.
There _must_ have been a good reason. Maybe.... :-)
--
rgds
Stephen
Paul Mc Auley
| [1] Well, face it, lurking afpers. It is. Sometimes the place seems to
| be populated almost entirely by clones of Fr. Dougal Maguire. [2]
Would this be afp in particular or Usenet in general. Oh wow.
| [2] And the odd Fr. Jack, fortunately.
The odd Len[3] Brennan helps too.
ObPainAndSynchronicity: An ad just now for AOL with "Do my homework" as a
sell feature.
Paul
[3] You'll address me by my proper title, you little bollix!
--
--- Paul Mc Auley <pmca...@iol.ie>
-- The correct way to roll NT out is out the door and into the
- nearest Dempster Dumpster or other large waste receptacle.
-- Mike Andrews
David Jacoby
>I claim Rowan Atkinson in tights.
ITYM "I claim Rowan Atkinson when he was funny." IIJM, or does Mr. Bean
give everyone a pain?
--
David Jacoby mailto:jac...@ecn.purdue.edu
Lead Web Technician, ECE http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~jacoby/
Computer Science Major Not finished, but working on it
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
>I've seen plenty of attempts to use usenet to do your homework, but
>never before any as blatant as the ones recently posted to comp.security.misc
Heh...sounds like a perfectly good opportunity to help someone miserably
fail.
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
"There's nothin' wrong with bein' a son of a bitch."
-- Gaspode the wonder dog
Chris King
<mi...@matches.com> writes
>Did Ancient Astronauts named fl...@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) once
>write the following? Read the book:
>>I've seen plenty of attempts to use usenet to do your homework, but
>>never before any as blatant as the ones recently posted to comp.security.misc
><postectomy>
>
>Heh...sounds like a perfectly good opportunity to help someone miserably
>fail.
How about a bit of blackmail...
"What's it worth NOT to tell your tutor ?"
Christer Mort Boräng
> Lapis Lazuli <la...@teatime.com> wrote:
> >I claim Rowan Atkinson in tights.
> ITYM "I claim Rowan Atkinson when he was funny." IIJM, or does Mr. Bean
> give everyone a pain?
Well, Mr. Bean is sometimes[1] funny. I really like some of the scenes
in the christmas episode, especially the window display scene and the
salvation army quartet[0] scene. I feel that Black Adder had much more
variation, though, and thus more fun in the long run.
//Christer
[0] Or was it a quintet?
[1] Definately not always. But that christmas show is the best Bean
I've seen. Oh, the gift swapping scene is good too...
--
| Fjällgatan 20 | Phone: Home +46 (0)31 7049805 CTH: +46 (0)31 7725431 |
| S-413 17 Göteborg | Email: mo...@cd.chalmers.se Cell: +46 (0)707 535757 |
| Sweden | WWW: http://www.cd.chalmers.se/~mort/ |
"An NT server can be run by an idiot, and usually is." -- Tom Holub, a.h.b-o-i
sau...@idx.com.au
> ITYM "I claim Rowan Atkinson when he was funny." IIJM, or does Mr. Bean
> give everyone a pain?
On average, no. I prefer Blackadder, but some of the Bean skits
are delightful.
Saundo
ObASR: argh. Is it the Catalyst, the routers playing silly buggers,
the Vivid, or the interfaces on the E4000's?
--
Chris "Saundo" Saunderson sau...@idx.com.au
Unix Guy Powered by Linux and the Orb.
"Mind surfing on a 30 foot wall of sound" (Def FX)
Stephen Harris
: ObASR: argh. Is it the Catalyst, the routers playing silly buggers,
: the Vivid, or the interfaces on the E4000's?
No.
RF interferance has caused electron drift inside the E4000 causing a high
negative electron bottleneck in the NIC. You need to apply a high charge
into the interface (wiring it into the "live" socket of the mains will
suffice) in order to repel the electrons (remember, like charges repel).
This will reduce the bottleneck and will let the network work properly again.
HTH. HAND.
--
rgds
Stephen
Peter da Silva
Chris King <ch...@csking.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> How about a bit of blackmail...
> "What's it worth NOT to tell your tutor ?"
Once after a couple of rounds of this the bloody teacher came on and said
that it'd *asked* the kids to use the web to solve the problem and so what
were we complaining about anyways?
--
In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <pe...@baileynm.com>
`-_-' Ar rug tú barróg ar do mhactíre inniu?
'U` "You are trapped in a maze of screens and ssh sessions all alike."
"It is dark, and you are likely to log off the wrong account." -- Nep.
Brian Kantor
>
>Tertiary evaluation: obscure bug in A caused by even more obscure bug in
>B, which only has effect because C and D have put the system into a
>state in which it can affect anything...
>
Simple cure: See that red button marked EPO over there on the wall?
Push it.
- Brian
Lapis Lazuli
wrote:
>Lapis Lazuli <la...@teatime.com> wrote:
>>I claim Rowan Atkinson in tights.
>
>ITYM "I claim Rowan Atkinson when he was funny." IIJM, or does Mr. Bean
>give everyone a pain?
Worse because he was able to pull off BlackAdder so well, which took
wit, and style... unlike sticking your head up a turkey's arse which
takes very little of either.
True, I may think his talents are wasted on Mr. Bean... but then I
also am aware that the money rolls in a lot faster when you cater to
the lowest common denominator. *sigh*
mi...@okcforum.org
: sau...@idx.com.au wrote:
: : ObASR: argh. Is it the Catalyst, the routers playing silly buggers,
: : the Vivid, or the interfaces on the E4000's?
: No. If you're checked all those, it's the cabling.
: Someone Else(tm) must've been sneaking around, changing
: those sturdy pressed CAT5-patches to rusty barbed wire,
: badly hand-crimped to melted RJ11-connectors with cheapo
: Korean plastic crimptool[a] for your maximum annoyance
: Not that I've seen those, ever, no.
Way Back When we were a dumb-terminal-only shop,
one of our employees decided he didn't need any
crimping tools. Nosirree, a pair of pliers would
do just fine, thanks. It wasn't until we paid
$BIGNUM USbux to have the whole fscking HQ building
rewired that we finally got rid of his shining
examples of ingenuity-in-action.
This is the big, lard-butted guy who sat sideways
in all the chairs that had arms, causing the arms
and the chairs to go their separate ways henceforth.
When he could be arsed to sit more-or-less-properly
in the chair, he'd lean back *HARD*, breaking the
return spring on the tilt mechanism -- when he didn't
separate the seat of the chair from its underpinnings.
As I understand it, we're paying his room and board
until 2015 or so, on account of the interesting real
estate deals he had going. One of them was to buy up
lots of junky old houses, do a subminimal fixup, and
rent to people who couldn't afford anything better.
If he had bothered to send some of the rent money
in to the seller of the houses (US Gov't., Dept.
of Housing and Urban Development), he might have
stayed out of jail.
But then he might be working for someone else as
an equipment installer. Be afraid. Be thankful for
Federal prisons.
--
Mike Andrews
Tired old sysadmin
mi...@okcforum.org
mi...@okcforum.org
I've done that. The result was Blessed Silence, broken
only by the birdlike cheeping of the PHBs as they
skittered around the Dinosaur Pen, hunting bugs.
mi...@okcforum.org
: Nir Soffer (scor...@amos-01.cs.huji.ac.il) wrote:
: : beach day since someone is leaving work. All I did all day was eat food,
: : lounge around on the beach and play volleyball.
: Last Friday was relatively nice. Went down the pub at 1300. My (semi)PHB
: was there and bought two rounds. And for some reason I haven't been able to
: work out I didn't leave the pub until 2130.
I'm happy that _someone_ had a nice time. My doc changed
my antidepressant, from Effexor to Effexor plus Remeron.
Remeron is ... interesting. Yes. If you like being
paranoid, emotionally-labile, actively hostile,
sleepy, and hung over, all at the same time, with
a splitting headache to boot, then Remeron may be
for you!
Then again, this sounds like your typical BOFH,
doesn't it? Folks, Remeron produces a BOFH on
steroids and growth hormone, who has eaten
two bowls of red-ass every morning of his life.
I've never before hit the jackpot w.r.t. nasty CNS side
effects, but I sure did this time. I think I missed one
of the CNS side effects in the "frequent" and "infrequent"
sections of the drug flyer.
While I generally try to avoid discussion of my problems
and medication, _this_ is one you all need to know about.
If you're lucky, you'll just sleep for a week. If not,
well, you _were_ warned.
mi...@okcforum.org
: In <slrn7ud6rk....@alexandra.delanet.com>,
: Abigail wrote:
:> Usenet should require licenses; licenses that can be revoked.
: <CLAP><CLAP><CLAP>
Why are you talking about STDs? That's part of TTTSBN.
Her statement should receive loud applause.
void
wrote:
>
>Remeron is ... interesting. Yes. If you like being
>paranoid, emotionally-labile, actively hostile,
>sleepy, and hung over, all at the same time, with
>a splitting headache to boot, then Remeron may be
>for you!
Wow, great, where do I sign up?!
Seriously though ... I hope you get the meds thing worked out ok.
(Yes, sincerity, in the Monastery. You want to make something of it?)
--
Ben
[X] YES! I'm a brain-damaged lemur on crack, and I'd like to
order your software package for $459.95!
Tom ONeil
may have written:
>abi...@delanet.com (Abigail) writes:
<Snippage>
>
>Though that was slightly different, on the topic of the request to send the
>reply by e-mail rather than posting it; but there was the same dynamic,
>where he said he didn't have time to check the newsgroup, but seemed to
>be asking us to spend the time on his problem.
<snip good reply>
Along these lines, when I was still new to the admin world, one of
many lessons pounded into me was some forms of manners, not just in
usenet but in our universe in general such as don't touch monitor
screens(1), stay away from shell wars with your betters, don't work
as root if you don't have to, etc..
I have tried to teach my PFY as many of these things as I can, and in
general be as much of a mentor as I can. He reads documentation,
verifies things, and fscks up intelligently most of the time.
So why the rush for "certification" programs that clearly don't cover
what in my experience are far more important skillsets - how do I
deduce the answer using the tools I have?
I think thats what is wrong with the bulk of the NT community, and
why "certification" in *nix will never carry the same weight as being
a PFY for some BoFH.
OBChemicalRecovery - Went to the Dr. today since my wife thinks I'm a
"bit stressed". Walked out with a script for sleeping pills for the
insomnia, anti-depressants for the depression, some sort of speed in
an inhaleable form for the wheezing brought on by the 2+ packs a day
and some nasal spray for the runny nose (No known cause).
I think he wants the referral $$ for a drug treatment center...
(1) Damn near broke my fingers. Taught me well, he did.
--
Tom ONeil
tom....@oneils.net
DISCLAIMER: Use of this advanced computer technology does not imply an
endorsement of Western industrial civilization.
Mike Sphar
Boräng) once write the following? Read the book:
>Well, Mr. Bean is sometimes[1] funny. I really like some of the scenes
>in the christmas episode, especially the window display scene and the
>salvation army quartet[0] scene. I feel that Black Adder had much more
>variation, though, and thus more fun in the long run.
Blackadder was more of an ensemble piece also, at least based on what bits
of Mr Bean I've seen. Blackadder benefited from the talents of several
talented people in addition to Mr Atkinson.
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
It's always easier to sell them some shit
Than it is to give them the truth.
-- Shel Silverstein, "The Perfect High"
Mike Sphar
Read the book:
>: Simple cure: See that red button marked EPO over there on the wall?
>: Push it.
>
>I've done that. The result was Blessed Silence, broken
>only by the birdlike cheeping of the PHBs as they
>skittered around the Dinosaur Pen, hunting bugs.
In the new building we're moving into, a few of us were scoping out one of
the rooms destined to be one of our computer labs. At one point, one of
the guys casually reached over and pushed the "Big Red Button". Nothing
happened, of course, there was no equipment in the room. I was a bit
boggled at him. He just said "all it does is turn of the air
conditioning". Now, I have to admit, I've never had occasion to press the
BRB in any lab, so I don't have factual experience to tell me that they do,
but a deep part of me knew that during a fire, with the overheard
sprinklers about to go off, turning off the air conditioning is not usually
one's major concern.
Anyway, today the admin responsible for setting up this particular lab came
to me and mentioned that for some reason there didn't seem to be any power
to any of the outlets in that room. I was happy to explain the situation
and inform her of who she had to thank.
Ross Roberts
> Abigail wrote:
>> Usenet should require licenses; licenses that can be revoked.
>
> <CLAP><CLAP><CLAP>
Be careful there, if you're not careful you might shut down my boxen with
that clapping<1><2>.
-r
<1> if this makes no sense to you, you need to watch more late nite
infomercials.
<2> does this tell you how my day is going?
<3> +++ATH0
Gid Holyoake
generously decided to share with us..
Snippetry..
> Damn... I can't applaud and type at the same time unless you are
> amused by the sound of one hand clapping. The silence is deafening.
<cl>
Gid
--
The Most Noble and Exalted Peculiar , Harem Master to Veiled Concubines
Guardian of the Sacred !!!!!'s , Defender of the Temple of AFPdoration
ISTP http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/ for The Irrelevant Page! MJBC
sau...@idx.com.au
> In article <m3n1udl...@sandman.optus.net.au>, <sau...@idx.com.au> wrote:
>
> >ObASR: argh. Is it the Catalyst, the routers playing silly buggers,
> > the Vivid, or the interfaces on the E4000's?
>
> Initial evaluation: Yes.
Strangely enough, your initial evaluation is actually closer
to the mark than you'd think :-)
The Cat has been playing up - I figure it needs to be upgraded.
The routers are currently running over the Evil Fibre Patch From
Hell Wot Shows Errors, not to mention some really weird OSPF.
The Vivid is just a piece of shit. Thanks for nothing, Newbridge.
thankfully it's getting pulled out due to non-Y2K compliancy.
The E4k's need upgrading to at least 2.6.
Wheee.
Saundo
sau...@idx.com.au
> Blackadder was more of an ensemble piece also, at least based on what bits
> of Mr Bean I've seen. Blackadder benefited from the talents of several
> talented people in addition to Mr Atkinson.
Absolutely. Rowan Atkinson ably support by Hugh Laurie, Stephen Fry,
Tony Robinson, Miranda Richards is difficult to beat.
Simon Cozens
> So why the rush for "certification" programs that clearly don't cover
>what in my experience are far more important skillsets - how do I
>deduce the answer using the tools I have?
ObPeeve: Programming books (For Dummies or similar) that don't teach
programming. Sure they might teach a language, if you're extremely
lucky, but they don't teach programming. They don't teach debugging,
either, which means you get more and more of the `it doesn't work'
followed by an entire program. Uhm, commenting out bits, isolating
the problem, debugging print statements? Are these really lost arts?
--
Q: How many Marxists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: None: The lightbulb contains the seeds of its own revolution.
Paul Tomblin
>ObPeeve: Programming books (For Dummies or similar) that don't teach
>programming. Sure they might teach a language, if you're extremely
Tell me about it. I'm putting together a web page, and I had a slight
confusion about the syntax of one of the form tags. Rather than go
immediately to a web page to look it up, my step-daughter's copy of "HTML for
Dummies" was handy so I picked that up. The damn book doesn't have any
reference material at all - every tag has *just* the syntax that they want you
to know explained, and no mention at all about color and size and any other
useful arguments.
--
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI@Home: Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
Jake Riddoch
>Tell me about it. I'm putting together a web page, and I had a slight
>confusion about the syntax of one of the form tags. Rather than go
>immediately to a web page to look it up, my step-daughter's copy of "HTML for
>Dummies" was handy so I picked that up. The damn book doesn't have any
>reference material at all - every tag has *just* the syntax that they want you
>to know explained, and no mention at all about color and size and any other
>useful arguments.
I've got the W3C specs for HTML 4.0 printed out at work; I just use that
for a reference. Took me a while to get used to how each tag was
explained, but it's looked at a fair bit.
--
Jake Riddoch http://www.larien.demon.co.uk/
"I'm picturing Windows NT jamming a network backbone going 'la la la la I can't
hear you la la la la la'" - Graham Reed, A.S.R.
Brian Kantor
>Now, I have to admit, I've never had occasion to press the
>BRB in any lab, so I don't have factual experience to tell me that they do,
>but a deep part of me knew that during a fire, with the overheard
>sprinklers about to go off, turning off the air conditioning is not usually
>one's major concern.
>
It is when it's fanning the flames under the floor.
If this is UI, you're in deep trouble already.
- Brian
Abigail
<URL:news:7sj07c$3v8$1...@piper.xcski.com>:
++
++ The damn book doesn't have any
++ reference material at all - every tag has *just* the syntax that they want yo
++ to know explained, and no mention at all about color and size and any other
++ useful arguments.
I'd consider that a feature. Colour and size have no place in HTML.
Abigail
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Paul Tomblin
>Firebeard <stend+a.sysa...@sten.org> wrote:
>>What you you think, guys, will 6
>>hours of lynx cure him?
>
>I recommend copious alcohol.
I'll drink to that.
Paul Martin
>Word has it that on Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:10:09 GMT, in this august forum,
>sau...@idx.com.au said:
>>mi...@sanjoseweb.com (Mike Sphar) writes:
>>> Blackadder was more of an ensemble piece also, at least based on what bits
>>> of Mr Bean I've seen. Blackadder benefited from the talents of several
>>> talented people in addition to Mr Atkinson.
>>
>>Absolutely. Rowan Atkinson ably support by Hugh Laurie, Stephen Fry,
>>Tony Robinson, Miranda Richards is difficult to beat.
>
Miranda Richardson, I believe.
--
Paul Martin <p...@zetnet.net>
at home, swap dash to dot to email.
Michael Hinz
> ObASR: argh. Is it the Catalyst, the routers playing silly buggers,
> the Vivid, or the interfaces on the E4000's?
A luser with a Macintosh writing the only address he knows into the
little windows in MacTCP - which happens to be your DNS server or something
equally important.
Trust me on this one. I've seen it happen. The other 350 lusers using that
particular DHCP/DNS/mail/file/everything server were not happy.
Michael
PS: I still see it happen - this time a luser with a (yuck!) Dell laptop.
He just took the nearest network contact, and stole the Mac's IP address.
Lucky him, he can't do much with it apart from browsing the web and reading
mail, as the fileserver and printserver deny any access from that segment ;)
PPS: Then there's the utter luser (yes, it's not even a normal luser, it's
worse) sending me an email telling me he needs an IP address. Then he calls
me, gets my answering machine, and reads his own email to it. Oh, and he
is in no way connected to my job, in my building, or gives me any information
on what kind of IP address he needs (I have six segments/VLANs in my building,
the faculty has seven or eight more (one of them being "shared" by six
IP segments, but that's a rant for another time)).
I guess it was just because he had my name in his Outhouse address book
(because he applied for a job for his son - and I didn't want him, as he
was more clueless than anybody I ever saw applying for a sysadmin/helldesk
position).
--
"We'll be rats in the wainscoting, unnoticed but thriving on
scraps of bandwidth that nobody will miss."
Charlie Gibbs in alt.folklore.computers
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
>>Now, I have to admit, I've never had occasion to press the
>>BRB in any lab, so I don't have factual experience to tell me that they do,
>>but a deep part of me knew that during a fire, with the overheard
>>sprinklers about to go off, turning off the air conditioning is not usually
>>one's major concern.
>
>It is when it's fanning the flames under the floor.
Yes, yes, of course you don't want the air conditioning running when
there's a fire. The point is that you wouldn't merely turn off the air
conditioning but otherwise leave the power circuits live.
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
Sometimes the only way you can feel good about yourself is by making
someone else look bad. And I'm tired of making other people feel good
about themselves. -- Homer Simpson
sau...@idx.com.au
> sau...@idx.com.au writes:
> > ObASR: argh. Is it the Catalyst, the routers playing silly buggers,
> > the Vivid, or the interfaces on the E4000's?
>
> A luser with a Macintosh writing the only address he knows into the
> little windows in MacTCP - which happens to be your DNS server or something
> equally important.
I think the NT VOIP gateway next to my E4k's as being funny, a macintosh
next to them would result in me dumping core from laughter in the middle
of the exchange.
> Trust me on this one. I've seen it happen. The other 350 lusers using that
> particular DHCP/DNS/mail/file/everything server were not happy.
Oh, I know it'll happen, just not in my network :-)
Joe Moore
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
> Rather than go immediately to a web page to look it up, my step-daughter's
> copy of "HTML for Dummies" was handy so I picked that up.
Anyone else seen "Designing Web Pages for Dummies"? I've been tempted to
pick it up and find out if it's the designer that's the dummy or the visitor.
Probably both.
Darn... English is so ambiguous.
--Joe
--
IBM's vision is apparently to make IBM hardware "scream with Microsoft
software" --The Register, http://www.theregister.co.uk/990927-000003.html
I have visions of screaming with (at and about) Microsoft software, too.
Alan J Rosenthal
[miraculously still on the topic of "do my homework for me"]
>Once after a couple of rounds of this the bloody teacher came on and said
>that it'd *asked* the kids to use the web to solve the problem and so what
>were we complaining about anyways?
So tell us your war stories from the ensuing LART applications...?
Seriously, I hope y'all didn't just let it go...
Alan J Rosenthal
> I too much prefer Rowan Atkinson in BlackAdder, though the first series
>was sometimes as annoying as Mr Bean.
I think that the writing in Black Adder was much more interesting, but Mr Bean
was a better vehicle for Rowan Atkinson to show off his more unique talents.
Of course, I don't agree with the philosophy that just because an actor can
do something, you have to use it. I.e. I'm not saying that it's a failure
of Black Adder that it didn't use very much of Rowan Atkinson's physical
humour skills.
I haven't seen the film, or any other films from the last couple of years for
that matter, so these comments may not apply to the film.
Note, though, if I'm not mistaken, that Rowan Atkinson doesn't write most
of the stuff, from any of these series. He's an actor, not a doctor..
I mean not a writer.
Joe Thompson
<slrn7urakg...@alexandra.delanet.com>:
>Paul Tomblin (ptom...@xcski.com) wrote on MMCCXVI September
>MCMXCIII in
><URL:news:7sj07c$3v8$1...@piper.xcski.com>:
>>The damn book doesn't have any reference material at all - every tag
>>has *just* the syntax that they want yo to know explained, and no
>>mention at all about color and size and any other ++ useful arguments.
>
>I'd consider that a feature. Colour and size have no place in HTML.
I don't know that I go that far -- I mean, that's why CSS was invented.
As soon as I feel I have a good, solid grasp of CSS all my pages are
getting converted, and until that time they validate to HTML 4.0
Transitional. Weak, I know, but AFAICT it's more than 99.5% of site
designers bother with. -- Joe
James Bendall
>Firebeard <stend+a.sysa...@sten.org> wrote:
>>What you you think, guys, will 6
>>hours of lynx cure him?
>I recommend copious alcohol.
Followed by the 6 hours of lynx. Over a 1200bps wireless link. In a
storm.
--
James - j...@penguinpowered.com
Fidonet - 2:253/9 - http://come.to/foti
Jake Riddoch
>I don't know that I go that far -- I mean, that's why CSS was invented.
>As soon as I feel I have a good, solid grasp of CSS all my pages are
>getting converted, and until that time they validate to HTML 4.0
>Transitional. Weak, I know, but AFAICT it's more than 99.5% of site
>designers bother with. -- Joe
I'm sticking with HTML 4.0 Loose[1] until such time as I feel that most
browsers in use will cope adequately with CSS. I might be an HTML
pedant, but I do want my pages to be readable and look vaguely similar
in all browsers.[2]
1/ I think that's right; it definately says loose in the DTD
2/ Note: "vaguely similar"; I don't expect all browser to parse my pages
identically
Abigail
in <URL:news:8E4EADE...@207.69.18.29>:
++ abi...@delanet.com (Abigail) wrote in
++ <slrn7urakg...@alexandra.delanet.com>:
++
++ >I'd consider that a feature. Colour and size have no place in HTML.
++
++ I don't know that I go that far -- I mean, that's why CSS was invented.
Eh? Both parts of the above sentence seem to conflict with each other.
Stylesheets (who predate HTML and the web) were `invented' just to keep
content and presentation separated. That's why colour and size have no
place in HTML. CSS is *not* HTML.
Abigail
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:TyBeAFAw...@larien.demon.co.uk>:
++
++ I'm sticking with HTML 4.0 Loose[1] until such time as I feel that most
++ browsers in use will cope adequately with CSS. I might be an HTML
++ pedant, but I do want my pages to be readable and look vaguely similar
++ in all browsers.[2]
Why? You're missing the point of HTML, and that makes you as much as a
web-luser as Joe Q Webdesigner.
Zembar
> fl...@interport.net (void) writes:
> >
> > (Yes, sincerity, in the Monastery. You want to make something of it?)
>
> Well, let's see.
>
> I can make a hat, a boat, or a pterodactyl flying through the a....
Airplane!, and I claim my inflatable autopilot.
/Zembar
"Stop the vegetarians, they eat all the animals' food!"
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert
>In article <7xemfou...@cancer.ucs.ed.ac.uk>, dr....@ed.ac.uk says...
>> fl...@interport.net (void) writes:
>> >
>> > (Yes, sincerity, in the Monastery. You want to make something of it?)
>>
>> Well, let's see.
>>
>> I can make a hat, a boat, or a pterodactyl flying through the a....
>
>Airplane!, and I claim my inflatable autopilot.
No, I'm sure it was _Flying High_.
K.
--
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert - sk...@netizen.com.au - http://netizen.com.au/
Any sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable
from irony. - Erik Naggum
Joe Thompson
<slrn7v3g80....@alexandra.delanet.com>:
>Jake Riddoch (ja...@larien.demon.co.uk) wrote on MMCCXIX September
>MCMXCIII in <URL:news:TyBeAFAw...@larien.demon.co.uk>:
>
>>I'm sticking with HTML 4.0 Loose[1] until such time as I feel
>>that most browsers in use will cope adequately with CSS. I might
>>be an HTML pedant, but I do want my pages to be readable and look
>>vaguely similar in all browsers.[2]
>
>Why? You're missing the point of HTML, and that makes you as much as
>a web-luser as Joe Q Webdesigner.
I see the first part of his point, though not the second. I've found
it useful when hammering home to businesspeople how spec-compliant HTML
is a Good Thing: "You want all the customers you can carry, right?
Well, if you design your pages with all this browser-specific stuff,
you're turning half of them away at the door and saying 'We don't want
*your* kind here.'"
That usually makes them sit up for a second. -- Joe
Joe Thompson
<slrn7v3g5n....@alexandra.delanet.com>:
>Joe Thompson (sp...@orion-com.com) wrote on MMCCXVIII September
>MCMXCIII in <URL:news:8E4EADE...@207.69.18.29>:
>++ abi...@delanet.com (Abigail) wrote in
>++ <slrn7urakg...@alexandra.delanet.com>:
>++
>++ >I'd consider that a feature. Colour and size have no place in
>HTML. ++
>++ I don't know that I go that far -- I mean, that's why CSS was
>invented.
>
>Eh? Both parts of the above sentence seem to conflict with each
>other. Stylesheets (who predate HTML and the web) were `invented'
>just to keep content and presentation separated. That's why colour
>and size have no place in HTML. CSS is *not* HTML.
Madam, I bow to your pedantry. I've always though of CSS
(specifically, rather than stylesheets in general) as sort of a
companion to HTML. The W3C validator apparently considers CSS to be
"extra" to HTML too.
Too many people think of stylesheets in terms of Word's Styles, which
really should been called Autoformat. Lusers, the lot of them.
And in closing, I declare myself the King of USB and Protector of the
Realm Thereof. -- Joe, having one of those days
Jake Riddoch
><slrn7v3g80....@alexandra.delanet.com>:
>
>>Jake Riddoch (ja...@larien.demon.co.uk) wrote on MMCCXIX September
>>MCMXCIII in <URL:news:TyBeAFAw...@larien.demon.co.uk>:
>>
>>>I'm sticking with HTML 4.0 Loose[1] until such time as I feel
>>>that most browsers in use will cope adequately with CSS. I might
>>>be an HTML pedant, but I do want my pages to be readable and look
>>>vaguely similar in all browsers.[2]
>>
>>Why? You're missing the point of HTML, and that makes you as much as
>>a web-luser as Joe Q Webdesigner.
>
>I see the first part of his point, though not the second.
Ok, FWIW, the only part of my pages which doesn't fit into HTNL 4.0
Frameset[3] is BGCOLOR[4] etc. A browser can override those if it
wants[5]; the colours aren't mandatory for the pages to be readable. I
just find black on grey boring and prefer something a bit 'brighter'.
Perhaps I should have said 'I prefer my pages to look similar in all
browsers'. I'm perfectly aware that HTML can also be parsed into voice
output etc and that browsers have some leeway in how they display[6]
HTML, but most tend to use similar guidelines, lynx being one obvious
exception.
Feel free to look at my pages at http://www.scms.rgu.ac.uk/staff/jr/ [7]
and whinge about them, but they are technically fine; you might not like
the colour choice or the frames, but that goes too near holy wars to be
interesting.
> I've found
>it useful when hammering home to businesspeople how spec-compliant HTML
>is a Good Thing: "You want all the customers you can carry, right?
>Well, if you design your pages with all this browser-specific stuff,
>you're turning half of them away at the door and saying 'We don't want
>*your* kind here.'"
>
>That usually makes them sit up for a second. -- Joe
Amen.
1/ My footnote, previous post
2/ [1]
3/ Ok, cue random 'frames are evil' religious war. I happen to like
them, and the pages are usable under lynx etc.
4/ Originally written BGCOLOUR; damn Americanisms.
5/ I actually fscked up my pages and didn't specify a text colour but
did specify a background colour. Someone's default colours rendered it
awfully, as they pointed out. I fixed them right after that.
6/ for whichever value of display you wish to use
7/ I also maintain a lot of the 'root' pages for the school. Basically,
if it has a DTD, it's probably mine. If it has <META NAME="EDITOR"
CONTENT="/usr/bin/vi"> it's mine.
Steve VanDevender
> Note, though, if I'm not mistaken, that Rowan Atkinson doesn't write most
> of the stuff, from any of these series. He's an actor, not a doctor..
> I mean not a writer.
The local PBS outlet is running Black Adder I these weeks and I
note that Atkinson shares writing credit for the episodes
(although I don't remember which of Richard Curtis or Ben Elton
is the other writer).
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://jcomm.uoregon.edu/~stevev
ste...@efn.org PGP key fingerprint=929FB79734DF8CC0 210DA447510FF93B
"bash awk grep perl sed df du, du-du du-du,
vi troff su fsck rm * halt LART LART LART!" -- the Swedish BOFH
Charlie Watts
>Jake Riddoch (ja...@larien.demon.co.uk) wrote on MMCCXIX September
>MCMXCIII in <URL:news:TyBeAFAw...@larien.demon.co.uk>:
>++ I'm sticking with HTML 4.0 Loose[1] until such time as I feel that most
>++ browsers in use will cope adequately with CSS. I might be an HTML
>++ pedant, but I do want my pages to be readable and look vaguely similar
>++ in all browsers.[2]
>
>Why? You're missing the point of HTML, and that makes you as much as a
>web-luser as Joe Q Webdesigner.
No, he isn't, and No, it doesn't.
Abigail, I respect the hell out of you in multiple newsfroups, and I'm
sure you've had this fight before, but there are two kinds of folks in
the world.
Them that wanna-be usin' da Innernet Sooperhi-way for getting information
to a buncha other people, all pretty-like.
And people who feel like they have to obey standards that get in their
way. Note that I said _their_ way - the standards may not get in your
way.
I agree that HTML is intended just to get info across. HTML, as originally
designed, should not contain appearance instructions.
But people want to be able to make their pages pretty.
Some of us are willing to compromise a bit of "Correctness" for
an improved appearance.
There may be better solutions out there for getting styled information
out to people - but it isn't in broad use. As he said - "most browsers
in use".
Remember Beta?
The "Web" in it's current form is a horrible kludge. But there are
a whole-lot of people out there using it, and they are more likely to
visit a site that looks kinda purty than one that's plain text.
Tell me you never compromise.
Hey - that gave me an idea - do you think everyone would leave if
"The Web" went away? With a little bit of transparent proxying on
a couple-hundred core routers we could pipe all of the "Web" traffic
through an HTML filter that stripped pages back to the essentials.
Hmmm ...
--
Charlie Watts Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
cew...@frontier.net (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)
Matt McLeod
that Joe Thompson did write:
>abi...@delanet.com (Abigail) wrote in
><slrn7v3g80....@alexandra.delanet.com>:
>
>>MCMXCIII in <URL:news:TyBeAFAw...@larien.demon.co.uk>:
>>
>>>be an HTML pedant, but I do want my pages to be readable and look
>>>vaguely similar in all browsers.[2]
>>
>>Why? You're missing the point of HTML, and that makes you as much as
>>a web-luser as Joe Q Webdesigner.
>
>is a Good Thing: "You want all the customers you can carry, right?
>Well, if you design your pages with all this browser-specific stuff,
>you're turning half of them away at the door and saying 'We don't want
>*your* kind here.'"
>
>That usually makes them sit up for a second. -- Joe
At this point I shall mention my ex-boss on whom this argument would
not have worked. Indeed, IIRC several people (including Skud and myself)
put this argument to him, and his response?
"So I'm doing my clients a favour by keeping all those losers who
obviously aren't good enough at their jobs to afford the latest PC
out of the site."
(But not put in quite that way. I don't have my archives from
then any more, but his writing style was only bested by his
sales manager when it came to complete crapness)
And now for the obligatory thread cross-over: although he was
running an ISP at the time, he's really more a recruiter than
anything else.
Ah, it's lovely when your ex-employers come back and make idiots
of themselves. Another ex-boss (of sorts - I was freelancing for
one of his magazines) has just started making vague legal threats
aginst good ol' NEB over a newsgroup FAQ[1]. Who the hell would
actually read NEB's web content and *then* decide that this is a guy
who will roll over if you whisper "libel" at him?
(Probably the same guy who'd claim that AARNet was run on a 2400bps
modem in '92 or so...)
"That Internet thing will never catch on. It's just a toy for geeks".
-- paraphrasing numerous computer magazine editors c. 1992.
Matt
[1] http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/media/amw-faq.txt. See if
you can spot the ex-boss.
--
"Help!! Come see the violence inherent in the sysadmin!"
Cobb, User Friendly, by Illiad
Paul Tomblin
>[1] http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/media/amw-faq.txt. See if
> you can spot the ex-boss.
Well, would it happen to be the guy the FAQ quotes you as saying "(I used to
work for Gareth and Sue, in a freelance capacity, back before this lot hit the
fan; if nothing else, Sue was a nice person, and Gareth always paid on time)"
Degree of Difficulty: 1
John Burnham
dr....@ed.ac.uk "Robert Blake" writes:
> Why, friends of Fr. Ted, of course.
>
Drink ! Feck ! Girls !
Rats ! Hairy, Japanese rats !
J.
--
John Burnham jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk
And I am not frightened of dying; any time will do, I don't mind
Why should I be frightened of dying ? There's no reason for it;
you've got to go sometime.
Nile Evil Bastard
:Ah, it's lovely when your ex-employers come back and make idiots
:of themselves. Another ex-boss (of sorts - I was freelancing for
:one of his magazines) has just started making vague legal threats
:aginst good ol' NEB over a newsgroup FAQ[1]. Who the hell would
:actually read NEB's web content and *then* decide that this is a guy
:who will roll over if you whisper "libel" at him?
:(Probably the same guy who'd claim that AARNet was run on a 2400bps
: modem in '92 or so...)
:"That Internet thing will never catch on. It's just a toy for geeks".
: -- paraphrasing numerous computer magazine editors c. 1992.
:[1] http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/media/amw-faq.txt. See if
: you can spot the ex-boss.
The correspondence in question is fun too. I'll be webbing the lot, erm,
probably if I get bored today. [1]
I fully expect a paper legal threat from the Fuckhead as soon as he sets
foot in Australia again. Sadly, the correspondence so far will sorely
hamper his chances of legal success, *unless* he plays nice. Which he
can't.
I think I'll taunt him again on Monday. "I am still awaiting your reply
as I am quite keen to resolve this issue in good faith as soon as
possible ..."
Yes, this is recovery ;-)
[1] All posted to the newsgroup of the FAQ - his mails and my responses.
Nile Evil Bastard
<skud+...@netizen.com.au> wrote:
:In article <MPG.125c0e1fa...@news.ericsson.se>, Zembar wrote:
:>In article <7xemfou...@cancer.ucs.ed.ac.uk>, dr....@ed.ac.uk says...
:>> Well, let's see.
:>> I can make a hat, a boat, or a pterodactyl flying through the a....
:>Airplane!, and I claim my inflatable autopilot.
:No, I'm sure it was _Flying High_.
The film released as 'Airplane!' in the US was released as 'Flying High'
in Australia.
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
> dr....@ed.ac.uk "Robert Blake" writes:
>> Why, friends of Fr. Ted, of course.
>>
>Drink ! Feck ! Girls !
>Rats ! Hairy, Japanese rats !
That would be an ecumenical matter!
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
"There's nothin' wrong with bein' a son of a bitch."
-- Gaspode the wonder dog
Mike Sphar
once write the following? Read the book:
>
>Some of us are willing to compromise a bit of "Correctness" for
>an improved appearance.
I don't know, I seem to run into more pages that have turned themselves
into a combination of text and background colors that are unreadable than I
do pages that are somehow improved by an alternate color scheme.
Of course, hypocrite that I am, my own pages are just thrown together with
Frontpage, but then I don't claim web-authoring as a skill and don't use it
for anything productive or useful.
OBResume: My boss contacted me the other day and informed me that because
of some government audit, he needs a copy of my resume, and the company no
longer seems to have it on file, so he needs a new one. Now, I haven't
touched my resume in a couple years, but since I'm being forced to open it
and look at it anyway, I went ahead and brought it up to date. When I gave
it to my boss, I added a side comment thanking him for making me update my
resume.
Christer Mort Boräng
> "That Internet thing will never catch on. It's just a toy for geeks".
> -- paraphrasing numerous computer magazine editors c. 1992.
"Internet is just a fad."
-- Ines Uusman, minister of communications, Sweden.
//Christer
--
| Fjällgatan 20 | Phone: Home +46 (0)31 7049805 CTH: +46 (0)31 7725431 |
| S-413 17 Göteborg | Email: mo...@cd.chalmers.se Cell: +46 (0)707 535757 |
| Sweden | WWW: http://www.cd.chalmers.se/~mort/ |
"An NT server can be run by an idiot, and usually is." -- Tom Holub, a.h.b-o-i
Peter da Silva
Mike Sphar <mi...@sanjoseweb.com> wrote:
> I don't know, I seem to run into more pages that have turned themselves
> into a combination of text and background colors that are unreadable than I
> do pages that are somehow improved by an alternate color scheme.
The main reason I use background colors is that "mosaic gray" is really ugly.
99% of the pages that change colors in the body tags just select black on
white.
> Of course, hypocrite that I am, my own pages are just thrown together with
> Frontpage, but then I don't claim web-authoring as a skill and don't use it
> for anything productive or useful.
IBM's Top Page actually looks like a useful tool. You can switch between
editing the page and editing the raw HTML, and it reinterprets it when you
switch.
--
In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <pe...@baileynm.com>
`-_-' Ar rug tú barróg ar do mhactíre inniu?
'U` "You are trapped in a maze of screens and ssh sessions all alike."
"It is dark, and you are likely to log off the wrong account." -- Nep.
Paul Tomblin
>The main reason I use background colors is that "mosaic gray" is really ugly.
That's the reason why I change the background colour IN MY OWN DAMN BROWSER.
So why do you attempt to change the colours on everybody else's browsers?
Zembar
> In article <37fe1664....@news.newsguy.com>,
> Mike Sphar <mi...@sanjoseweb.com> wrote:
> > I don't know, I seem to run into more pages that have turned themselves
> > into a combination of text and background colors that are unreadable than I
> > do pages that are somehow improved by an alternate color scheme.
>
>
> white.
My homepage[0] uses black on white and white on black. Exclusively.
And I have no images. The only offense my homepage commits is that it
uses frames[1], yet all of my friends tell me it looks great. And it's
easy to read as well.
But let's not let this degenerate into a web design contest thread. there
are enough newsgroups fully dedicated to that.
> > Of course, hypocrite that I am, my own pages are just thrown together with
> > Frontpage, but then I don't claim web-authoring as a skill and don't use it
> > for anything productive or useful.
>
> IBM's Top Page actually looks like a useful tool. You can switch between
> editing the page and editing the raw HTML, and it reinterprets it when you
> switch.
You use a WYSIWYG tool? Heathen!
The only WYSIWYG web editor worth anything is DreamWeaver, and even that
sucks![2]
/Zembar
"Stop the vegetarians, they eat all the animals' food!"
[0] http://home.swipnet.se/zembar - yes, I suck, yes, I'm a bad writer,
and yes, I'm just a kid, and in your days.. (yadda yadda)
[1] Not a small offense, true, but it is all in the name of improved
loadtimes and saving bandwidth. I _could_ do it with tables, but then I'd
waste bandwidth.
[2] Yes, I know that all software sucks, but here it is more than that
standard amount of suckage we've all grown to hate.
Matt McLeod
>work for Gareth and Sue, in a freelance capacity, back before this lot hit the
>fan; if nothing else, Sue was a nice person, and Gareth always paid on time)"
That'd be the chap.
>Degree of Difficulty: 1
I didn't say it'd be difficult.
I'm pretty sure another ex-boss of mine is mentioned in there, too.
Although he was only my boss in the sense that he ran a VBPC I
was freelancing for. The third publisher doesn't get a mention
because they were mostly harmless.
Matt
--
"A pioneer of the 'You broke it? You fix it!' service philosophy."
Peter da Silva
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
> In a previous article, pe...@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) said:
> That's the reason why I change the background colour IN MY OWN DAMN BROWSER.
> So why do you attempt to change the colours on everybody else's browsers?
If the user cares, he's going to override my selection.
That's why there's an option of ignoring the page-provided colors.
If the user doesn't care, then why not replace the ugly default selection with
a better one?
Peter da Silva
Zembar <zem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > IBM's Top Page actually looks like a useful tool. You can switch between
> > editing the page and editing the raw HTML, and it reinterprets it when you
> > switch.
> You use a WYSIWYG tool? Heathen!
My users do, and so I have to evaluate them.
Matt McLeod
<our good friend GP>
>[1] All posted to the newsgroup of the FAQ - his mails and my responses.
So there hasn't been anything new since midweek? Either that, or
Labyrinth's feed of a.m-w sucks mightily.
Hm. All this has gotten me motivated to maybe have another crack
at the media ownership stuff I was working on ages ago. Combined
with my general intention to learn Python[2], something serious
might even result.
Matt
[2] no language holy-wars, please. I'd rather learn it first,
then make criticisms if appropriate. And anyway, I'm just
sort-of-vaguely following Lionel's advice.
--
"Stuff existentialism, I'm goin' back to momma"
-- TISM
Paul Tomblin
>In article <7t281l$rou$1...@piper.xcski.com>,
>Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>> That's the reason why I change the background colour IN MY OWN DAMN BROWSER.
>> So why do you attempt to change the colours on everybody else's browsers?
>
>If the user cares, he's going to override my selection.
>
>That's why there's an option of ignoring the page-provided colors.
>
>If the user doesn't care, then why not replace the ugly default selection with
>a better one?
Because I want to use (for argument's sake) purple letters on black unless
there is a compelling reason to view the page in different colours. The fact
that you don't like Netscape's default colour is not a compelling reason for
you to override my choices.
Peter da Silva
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
> Because I want to use (for argument's sake) purple letters on black unless
> there is a compelling reason to view the page in different colours.
If there really is a compelling reason to override your choices, then they
can use attributes on tables (which aren't overridden by the user) to do so.
> The fact
> that you don't like Netscape's default colour is not a compelling reason for
> you to override my choices.
Since I'm not overriding anything unless you want me to, what's your beef?
Paul Tomblin
>Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>> Because I want to use (for argument's sake) purple letters on black unless
>> there is a compelling reason to view the page in different colours.
>
>If there really is a compelling reason to override your choices, then they
>can use attributes on tables (which aren't overridden by the user) to do so.
That's a stupid argument. Just because there is a work around doesn't make
your abuse of the correct way of setting a page's background right.
>
>> The fact
>> that you don't like Netscape's default colour is not a compelling reason for
>> you to override my choices.
>
>Since I'm not overriding anything unless you want me to, what's your beef?
You're overriding my ability to choose my default colour, and only have it
overridden when there is a reason to do so. The fact that you don't like the
default background on your browser is not a reason. If you had a page with
art or style that needed a particular background, then by all means, override
the background. But just coding a white background because you don't like
grey is dump - if you don't like grey, change your browser settings, not your
web page.
Brian L. Naylor
>
>Because I want to use (for argument's sake) purple letters on black unless
>that you don't like Netscape's default colour is not a compelling reason for
>you to override my choices.
I sometimes use tables for layout, for no other reason than it makes me
giggle to think that some random uptight HTML pedant will get pissed about
it. The browser war is over, and HTML was the casualty. If you let it get
to you, you'll just wind up in a state ward somewhere reliving wartime
horrors day after day through a drug-induced stupor.
It's Just The Web.(tm)
--
Brian Naylor bria...@sackheads.org http://www.sackheads.org/~bnaylor/
"We are of different species. You and I cannot cross-breed."
-- Brandon Franklin to Kim's cat (hmm)
Adam J. Thornton
Brian L. Naylor <brian+...@sackheads.org> wrote:
>If you let it get
>to you, you'll just wind up in a state ward somewhere reliving wartime
>horrors day after day through a drug-induced stupor.
This is different from system administration how, exactly?
Adam
--
ad...@princeton.edu
"My eyes say their prayers to her / Sailors ring her bell / Like a moth
mistakes a light bulb / For the moon and goes to hell." -- Tom Waits
Ralph Wade Phillips
Peter da Silva wrote in message <7t2ag7$k...@web.nmti.com>...
>In article <MPG.125ec549f...@news.ericsson.se>,
>
>> You use a WYSIWYG tool? Heathen!
>
>My users do, and so I have to evaluate them.
>
I evaluate that your lusers are dumb. Ain't a SINGLE WYSIWYM tool
out there.
RwP
Randy the Random
(Zembar) to type:
>My homepage[0] uses black on white and white on black. Exclusively.
>And I have no images. The only offense my homepage commits is that it
>uses frames[1], yet all of my friends tell me it looks great. And it's
>easy to read as well.
Not your only offense, no. With the phrase "Your browser doesn't
support frames. Get MS Internet Explorer", you prove that you will burn
in "The Hell of Bill's Minions".
--
the Unsig
Joe Thompson
<7t2g80$v4q$1...@piper.xcski.com>:
>In a previous article, pe...@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) said:
>>In article <7t2db9$tqv$1...@piper.xcski.com>,
>>Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>>> The fact
>>> that you don't like Netscape's default colour is not a compelling
>>> reason for you to override my choices.
>>
>>Since I'm not overriding anything unless you want me to, what's
>>your beef?
>
>You're overriding my ability to choose my default colour, and only
>have it overridden when there is a reason to do so.
No he's not. Furrfu! Look at your Netscape settings (since you
mentioned it). There's two notable options in there (this is specific
to Communicator):
...Prefs -> Appearance -> Fonts:
Sometimes a document will provide its own fonts.
[ ] Use my default fonts, overriding document-specified fonts.
[ ] Use document-specified fonts, but disable Dynamic Fonts
[ ] Use document-specified fonts, including Dynamic Fonts
...Prefs -> Appearance -> Colors:
Sometimes a document will provide its own colors and background.
[ ] Always use my colors, overriding document
Any browser that doesn't at least attempt to implement these is broken,
and should be fixed.
Providing default fonts and background on a web page is *never* forcing
a client to use those fonts, it's just a recommendation. Any client
that acts as if it is being forced, is broken, and see above. -- Joe
John Burnham
matt+...@netizen.com.au "Matt McLeod" writes:
<snip someone elses stuff about why insisting on your clients having
whizzy web browsers is a dumb idea>
>
> At this point I shall mention my ex-boss on whom this argument would
> not have worked. Indeed, IIRC several people (including Skud and myself)
> put this argument to him, and his response?
>
> "So I'm doing my clients a favour by keeping all those losers who
> obviously aren't good enough at their jobs to afford the latest PC
> out of the site."
>
Yeah. I've had that argument put to me. We have a fancy pay per view
site that insists on the client being Nutscrape 4+ or Internet Exploder
4 +, with java and javascript and bells and whistles and a host of
angelic beings and....
I remember asking why we were cutting down our potential customer base
and was told something along the similar lines but with the added
insult of 'and also we want it to look really flash to impress everyone.'
Fuck. It's that old story of style over content. For Hades sakes, what
the customer is paying for is the goddamn, motherfunstering information.
They probably don't give a damn about whether said information is
presented by an animated angel carrying a scroll with the information
inscribed on it in burning letters. Yes, pay some attention to
presentation but not at the expense of cutting out customers. But hey,
I'm obviously some weird hippy bastard....
> "That Internet thing will never catch on. It's just a toy for geeks".
> -- paraphrasing numerous computer magazine editors c. 1992.
>
And it would probably be a much nicer place if it had stayed that way.
Paul Tomblin
>ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote in
>>have it overridden when there is a reason to do so.
>[ ] Always use my colors, overriding document
>
>Any browser that doesn't at least attempt to implement these is broken,
>and should be fixed.
>
>Providing default fonts and background on a web page is *never* forcing
>a client to use those fonts, it's just a recommendation. Any client
>that acts as if it is being forced, is broken, and see above. -- Joe
You're not reading very carefully, Joe. I have my preferred background colors
set in my browser. Let's say, for argument's sake, that I prefer battleship
grey. Peter comes along, and because he prefers white, he's made the
background of his web pages white. I don't want white backgrounds, unless
it's a stylistic part of the page - for example, when the background and the
foreground colours are chosen to match to art on the page.
Explain to me how using those options, I can override Peter's demand that I
view his page with a white background, without also overriding Planet Half
Life's black background that goes with the foreground and art colours on their
page?
It's all part of the school of web page design that says "Don't fuck with what
the user wants unless you have a damn good reason to." Peter's reason is not
good. If he wants white backgrounds, fine, let him set the default setting on
his browser, not fuck with my colour choices.
Peter da Silva
John Burnham <Jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I remember asking why we were cutting down our potential customer base
> and was told something along the similar lines but with the added
> insult of 'and also we want it to look really flash to impress everyone.'
There was a recent article in one of the rags about the "groundbreaking"
technique Weather.com used to reduce the load on their servers when Floyd
came through.
This technique? Simplify and reduce the graphics.
Oy.
Peter da Silva
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
> I don't want white backgrounds, unless
> it's a stylistic part of the page
Then I hereby declare that white backgrounds are a stylistic part of my page.
But they're still optional. You can override them.
> Explain to me how using those options, I can override Peter's demand that I
> view his page with a white background,
I don't demand any such thing.
> without also overriding Planet Half
> Life's black background that goes with the foreground and art colours on their
> page?
If they're using font and table settings to change the behaviour of their
page, then they should do so consistently.
Joe Thompson
>Explain to me how using those options, I can override Peter's demand
>that I view his page with a white background, without also
>overriding Planet Half Life's black background that goes with the
>foreground and art colours on their page?
>
>It's all part of the school of web page design that says "Don't fuck
>with what the user wants unless you have a damn good reason to."
>Peter's reason is not good. If he wants white backgrounds, fine,
>let him set the default setting on his browser, not fuck with my
>colour choices.
My point is that his artistic decision that he prefers white
backgrounds on his web pages is of exactly equal validity as the
decision of Planet Half Life to make their backgrounds black. *All*
artistic judgement boils down to "well, I like the way it looks when
it's that way."
You can't call him a luser for wanting his web pages one way without
calling everybody else in the world who uses background color tags a
luser as well. (Which includes me, by the way, just as a data point.)
All he's done is say "I think they look better this way." The fact
that your browser's authors force you into an unpleasant choice is in
no way his fault. -- Joe
Paul Tomblin
>>with what the user wants unless you have a damn good reason to."
>
>backgrounds on his web pages is of exactly equal validity as the
>decision of Planet Half Life to make their backgrounds black. *All*
Actually, I expected better of Peter. People look at Planet Half Life because
of the artistic design, because face it every Half Life fan page has exactly
the same content as every other Half Life fan page. I design my pages, and I
would expect Peter to design his web pages, to have information content, so I
try damn hard to make sure I'm not influencing the page presentation too much.
I don't use font tags (not even the relatively unevil relative font tags), I
don't mess with colours, and I don't over use images. And I make damn sure it
work right with old pre-frames versions of lynx.
The only pages I violate those rules on are ones where presentation is
exceptionally important, probably more so than the content - like some of the
ones I did for the Rochester Flying Club.
Joe Moore
>In article <MPG.125ec549f...@news.ericsson.se>,
>Zembar <zem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > IBM's Top Page actually looks like a useful tool. You can switch between
>> > editing the page and editing the raw HTML, and it reinterprets it when you
>> > switch.
>
>
>My users do, and so I have to evaluate them.
YOU ALL FAIL! All of you!
Sorry... I'm used to evaluating students.
--Joe
--
IBM's vision is apparently to make IBM hardware "scream with Microsoft
software" --The Register, http://www.theregister.co.uk/990927-000003.html
I have visions of screaming with (at and about) Microsoft software, too.
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
mort+...@dtek.chalmers.se (Christer "Mort" Boräng) spake:
>matt+...@netizen.com.au (Matt McLeod) writes:
>> "That Internet thing will never catch on. It's just a toy for geeks".
>> -- paraphrasing numerous computer magazine editors c. 1992.
> -- Ines Uusman, minister of communications, Sweden.
"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered
as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to
us." -Western Union internal memo, 1876
-- <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
Peter da Silva
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
> Actually, I expected better of Peter. People look at Planet Half Life because
> of the artistic design, because face it every Half Life fan page has exactly
> the same content as every other Half Life fan page.
Let's see. Planet Half Life uses white text on black with a non-standard
gold color for links. Non-standard link colors are an ongoing source of
confusion on the net, and have led to a situation where any underscored
text is assumed to be a link since there is no uniform tagging left for
this purpose.
Next, Planet Half Life uses images where text could be used without any
loss of presentation quality, as many of the images in question could be
implemented with color tags on table cells.
In addition these images not only don't provide a usable "alt" tag, they
include an "alt" tag with a value of "", which means they will vanish
completely on a text-only browser.
I'm sure I could find a dozen more "hall of shame" features on this page,
and I'm sure I can find as many on my own pages if I were in a picky mood.
If I consider that a "paper white" background is part of the artistic design
of my page, because it is my belief that "paper white" backgrounds are more
aesthetically pleasing, then that is just as valid an artistic design
choice as a black background with gold links and GIFs instead of text.
Graham Reed
> You're overriding my ability to choose my default colour, and only have it
> overridden when there is a reason to do so.
I just _love_ people who only override one colour.
Say my default is light-on-dark instead of dark-on-white, or some
where contrasting colour-and-intensity pair, due to a combination of
cheap video tubes and nostalgia for certain old computers. Now
someone comes along and sets the background to white, and I'm left
with "white on white".
Override ALL colours, or NO colours.
Hopefully, the good people doing http://www.icab.de/ will include my
suggestions to optionally reject colour settings if not all are
specified.
Otherwise, half the Web disappears if you aren't using Mosaic default
black-on-grey. (If someone has designed a colour scheme, I don't mind
seeing it, or if it hooks in to their graphic design, so I don't turn
on force-override. But I agree with Paul: don't change it just
because you don't like the default.)
And colour overrides in tables without a corresponding body setting?
Bye-bye table content.
--
Graham Reed Workstation C/C++ gr...@torolab.vnet.ibm.com
"There are other ways of doing it, but they don't work"
-- Hugh Gamble