I have recently finished repairing the NVRAM chip on an old SPARCstation IPC and now its time to give it an operating system. Ive tried installing Debian and NetBSD but was unable to get either to install. I would prefer to run Debian but I would be happy with NetBSD or some realy old version of SunOS.
The first thing I tried to install was Debian Sparc 3.1r0 (maybe 3.0) from CDROM. CD Booting never got further than "freeing unused kernel memory: xxxk freed" (or somthing similar). I can still type on to the screen but there is no further output from the kernel or any other software.
Next up I tred NetBSD - floppy booting didnt work as the second disk image was too big to fit on a disk. I tried Tape booting but the NetBSD installer could find the second part on the tape (even though I had followed instructions exactly). The bootable CD image wouldnt boot. I tred Network Booting the NetBSD installer but that didnt work.
While I would be happy with some old version of SunOS/Solaris I dont know where I could get a version old enough from.
Network booting isnt realy an option any more as I no longer have access to an AUI transciever. Tape booting also isnt possible as my SPARCstation 5, the only linux machine I have with SCSI, just stopped working one morning and I dont know why (Power LED comes on for half a second and the drives spin up - nothing more)
Hardware is: SUN SPARCstation IPC 48MB RAM no monitor - I am having to use a nullmodem cable 2GB? Seagate Barracuda External Toshiba CDROM drive (quite old, uses caddies) Exabyte 8200 8mm tape drive
So, Anyone know how I can get an OS to install on this thing?
"Randomize" <dgsof...@gmail.com> writes: >I have recently finished repairing the NVRAM chip on an old >SPARCstation IPC and now its time to give it an operating system. Ive >tried installing Debian and NetBSD but was unable to get either to >install. I would prefer to run Debian but I would be happy with NetBSD >or some realy old version of SunOS. >The first thing I tried to install was Debian Sparc 3.1r0 (maybe 3.0) >from CDROM. CD Booting never got further than "freeing unused kernel >memory: xxxk freed" (or somthing similar). I can still type on to the >screen but there is no further output from the kernel or any other >software.
I haven't yet found any Linux version which is painless to install on a Sparc system. But my preference for Linux on Sparc is Gentoo at the moment due to the better Javastation support. I gave up on Debian because it just seems a bit too anal in the way the Debian project is run and the approach to certain things is quite alien to what you'd expect from something that's meant to be open-source.
>Next up I tred NetBSD - floppy booting didnt work as the second disk >image was too big to fit on a disk. I tried Tape booting but the NetBSD >installer could find the second part on the tape (even though I had >followed instructions exactly). The bootable CD image wouldnt boot. I >tred Network Booting the NetBSD installer but that didnt work. >While I would be happy with some old version of SunOS/Solaris I dont >know where I could get a version old enough from.
Solaris 2.6 (SunOS 5.6) and 2.7 (5.7) should be ok. I don't remember if 2.8 (SunOS 5.8) runs on IPC's but I don't think it does.
>Network booting isnt realy an option any more as I no longer have >access to an AUI transciever. Tape booting also isnt possible as my >SPARCstation 5, the only linux machine I have with SCSI, just stopped >working one morning and I dont know why (Power LED comes on for half a >second and the drives spin up - nothing more)
If you can hook up an external SCSI CD-ROM drive that would work but I think the IPC's firmware will be too old to have a 'cdrom' alias so you would need to do a 'probe-scsi' to get the correct device pathname, and type in the boot path manually. There might be versions of the firmware (the later 2.x ones if they ever got released for the Sparcstation 1+ and IPC which are essentially the same) which know about CD-ROM drives though it's unlikely.
But if they work, they're useful as boot devices. 8-)
I've net-installed NetBSD onto a Sparcstation 5 without a big drama - I remember that one part of the instructions didn't make sense and it took me a while to figure out what I did wrong but it was a few years ago now. I'm going to attempt a fresh 2.x install onto another Sparc box soon though.
On Tue, 16 May 2006, Kralizec Craig wrote: > Solaris 2.6 (SunOS 5.6) and 2.7 (5.7) should be ok. I don't remember if 2.8 > (SunOS 5.8) runs on IPC's but I don't think it does.
Correct; Solaris 7 was the last release to support the sun4c architecture, of which the IPC is a member. Solaris 8 won't work.
Solaris 7 is the last supported solaris release on an IPC. However, you should be prepared to not use X, and fully load it with whatever memory you have.
I have found better performance with the BSDs, NetBSD and OpenBSD seem to work acceptably.
I gave up using the CD, and netinstalled them. Using CD-R's in a CD-rom drive of the sort of age suitable to work with a computer that old is a tricky experience. it may work, but dont count on it.
You *can* install linux, but on an IPC, i dont recommend it. It works fine on the more powerful boxes, but on a 25Mhz SPARC I, it seems even slower than Solaris 7.
If you are going to try linux, try Debian Woody. Its the only one I have found which seems to install relatively cleanly. Even Sarge seems to have problems.
Forget SunOS unless your doing the antique computer thing. its very slow.
Of course a much better solution would be put in an 8 bit framebuffer and use it as an X terminal to a bigger computer. SLXT runs like a charm on these old boxes, and an IPC is even looks compact on the desk.
>Solaris 7 is the last supported solaris release on an IPC. However, you >should be prepared to not use X, and fully load it with whatever memory >you have.
>I have found better performance with the BSDs, NetBSD and OpenBSD seem >to work acceptably.
>I gave up using the CD, and netinstalled them. >Using CD-R's in a CD-rom drive of the sort of age suitable to work with >a computer that old is a tricky experience. it may work, but dont count >on it.
>You *can* install linux, but on an IPC, i dont recommend it. It works >fine on the more powerful boxes, but on a 25Mhz SPARC I, it seems even >slower than Solaris 7.
>If you are going to try linux, try Debian Woody. Its the only one I have >found which seems to install relatively cleanly. Even Sarge seems to >have problems.
>Forget SunOS unless your doing the antique computer thing. its very slow.
SunOS isn't too slow on the IPC. I've run it on ELC's, SparcStation 2's, IPX's and such.
I think it performs equivalent to NetBSD on the box. The main problem is the limited memory.
The IPX is a bit better cpu... I have one of them and a couple of the Sparc-up upgraded SparcStation2's.
The SunOS was very reliable and solid and the X worked. I've been debating reloading the ELC with SunOS4 if I can find a 4.1.4 install cd and the y2k patches.
>Of course a much better solution would be put in an 8 bit framebuffer >and use it as an X terminal to a bigger computer. >SLXT runs like a charm on these old boxes, and an IPC is even looks >compact on the desk.
The ELC will probably be used as an Xterminal here... I've debated netbooting it and making it drive-free as a standalone display...
bill -- -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com
Debian 3 was able to boot from a CD-R ("boot cdrom" seemed to work fine) but seemed to crash after it freed kernel memory (either that or for some reason it stopped sending output to the serial port).
I would be quite happy to run NetBSD but my attempts all failed. The second floppy disk image was larger than a floppy disk, the CDROM ISO image wasnt valid and wouldnt write properly (not corrupt, just not created properly it seems). Tape booting seemed the most promising but it couldnt read the second part from tape even though I had followed the instructions exactly. I didnt have much success with network booting either - it just gave errors I think. Ive never network booted a computer so it is entirely possible I was doing somthing wrong.
SunOS is also fine by me - The machine is unlikely to be particularly useful to me besides as an example of an older sun system in a lunchbox case. As a result functionality or speed doesnt bother me much, as long as it will boot into an operating system. The only reason why I havent tried installing an old version of SunOS yet is because I dont have the installation media and I dont know where i could get it from (I assume it isnt licensed as free software).
At the moment I suspect that both of my 13w3 monitors have failed so I have no real way to connect an actual display to the machine - I can only use a null modem cable. Ive tested my 13w3 monitors on both the IPC and my SPARCstation 5. The 17" SUN one that came with the IPC doesnt display anything. After about a minute it makes a clicking noise and turns off. It wont turn on again after this until ive left it for an hour or so. My 20" SGI monitor makes some good noises but doesnt display anything and after a few seconds its orange LED comes on. Connecting them to a PC makes no difference (I have an adapter cable).
My SPARCstation 5 is currently dead (power led comes on straight away for about half a second, turns off, drives spin up, nothing else happens. I cant connect a serial cable as I dont have appropriate adapters & monitors dont seem to work so I have no idea whats wrong). As a result of its deadness tape booting anything will be difficult - it was my only linux box with SCSI.
So, any ideas on how I can install Linux or NetBSD from CDROM or network? (following the netbsd installation instructions for either didnt get me far)
> Debian 3 was able to boot from a CD-R ("boot cdrom" seemed to work > fine) but seemed to crash after it freed kernel memory (either that or > for some reason it stopped sending output to the serial port).
How much memory have you got in the box? could that be the limiting factor? I believe the BSDs and Linux require 4Mb simms in slot 0 before they will install, because the installers are > 4mb in size and need the 16Mb in the first bank.
> the instructions exactly. I didnt have much success with network > booting either - it just gave errors I think. Ive never network booted > a computer so it is entirely possible I was doing somthing wrong.
Its a bit tricky to start with but when its set up its by far the easiest way. Especially if, like me, you have lots of hardware of rather advanced age and dubious reliablity. Did it get to the stage where it was copying a file from the network? or did it just complain about the lack of RARP, or just hang there doing nothing?
1: suggests the file is not bootable, 2: suggests the RARP service on the server is not working 3: suggests the RARP service *is* working, but the TFTP service on the same box isnt. (Note, it goest without saying the RARP and the TFTP service should be on the same box) (Note, this may be permissions on /tftpboot as well)
> My SPARCstation 5 is currently dead (power led comes on straight away > for about half a second, turns off, drives spin up, nothing else > happens. I cant connect a serial cable as I dont have appropriate > adapters & monitors dont seem to work so I have no idea whats wrong). > As a result of its deadness tape booting anything will be difficult - > it was my only linux box with SCSI.
I assume you dont have access to another machine of similar sort of age then? Its possible to do a basic debian install onto a disk on either a sun4c, sun4m or sun4d and then swap the disks around (You cant do this with Solaris, and I dont know about the BSDs) (You can plug in the SCSI II disk into the CD-rom slot and connect your external CD rom)
graham salkin wrote: > Solaris 7 is the last supported solaris release on an IPC. However, you > should be prepared to not use X, and fully load it with whatever memory > you have.
> I have found better performance with the BSDs, NetBSD and OpenBSD seem > to work acceptably.
> I gave up using the CD, and netinstalled them. > Using CD-R's in a CD-rom drive of the sort of age suitable to work with > a computer that old is a tricky experience. it may work, but dont count > on it.
> You *can* install linux, but on an IPC, i dont recommend it. It works > fine on the more powerful boxes, but on a 25Mhz SPARC I, it seems even > slower than Solaris 7.
> If you are going to try linux, try Debian Woody. Its the only one I have > found which seems to install relatively cleanly. Even Sarge seems to > have problems.
If you're trying older Linux releases, watch out for the crippling memory management bug on the sun4c. It makes the system useless, you'll need a kernel with that fixed. ISTR I hit this problem with Debian 2.2.
> Forget SunOS unless your doing the antique computer thing. its very slow.
Actually SunOS 4 isn't slow at all on the class of machine we're talking about -- it's feels similar to, or even faster in general than the more recent releases of NetBSD. It's a nice unbloated BSD.
> Of course a much better solution would be put in an 8 bit framebuffer > and use it as an X terminal to a bigger computer. > SLXT runs like a charm on these old boxes, and an IPC is even looks > compact on the desk.
>graham salkin wrote: >> Solaris 7 is the last supported solaris release on an IPC. However, you >> should be prepared to not use X, and fully load it with whatever memory >> you have.
>> I have found better performance with the BSDs, NetBSD and OpenBSD seem >> to work acceptably.
>> I gave up using the CD, and netinstalled them. >> Using CD-R's in a CD-rom drive of the sort of age suitable to work with >> a computer that old is a tricky experience. it may work, but dont count >> on it.
>> You *can* install linux, but on an IPC, i dont recommend it. It works >> fine on the more powerful boxes, but on a 25Mhz SPARC I, it seems even >> slower than Solaris 7.
>> If you are going to try linux, try Debian Woody. Its the only one I have >> found which seems to install relatively cleanly. Even Sarge seems to >> have problems.
>If you're trying older Linux releases, watch out for the crippling >memory management bug on the sun4c. It makes the system useless, you'll >need a kernel with that fixed. ISTR I hit this problem with Debian 2.2.
>> Forget SunOS unless your doing the antique computer thing. its very slow.
>Actually SunOS 4 isn't slow at all on the class of machine we're >talking about -- it's feels similar to, or even faster in general than >the more recent releases of NetBSD. It's a nice unbloated BSD.
I put 2 NICs in one of our IPCs, and used it as the office router/firewall for years. Sunos 2.7, no speed problems..
"Randomize" <dgsof...@gmail.com> writes: > At the moment I suspect that both of my 13w3 monitors have failed so I > have no real way to connect an actual display to the machine
Adapters such as the Network Technologies 13W3M-15HDF will let you connect a monitor with the typical 15HD-male connector on the end. The monitor will need to be able to sync to whatever resolution your graphics card puts out. If that's 1152x900x76Hz, your choices are more limited, but if you're willing to live with 1024x768, almost any monitor should work. Set the OpenBoot EEPROM parameters. -WBE
> >graham salkin wrote: > >> Solaris 7 is the last supported solaris release on an IPC. However, you > >> should be prepared to not use X, and fully load it with whatever memory > >> you have.
> >> I have found better performance with the BSDs, NetBSD and OpenBSD seem > >> to work acceptably.
> >> I gave up using the CD, and netinstalled them. > >> Using CD-R's in a CD-rom drive of the sort of age suitable to work with > >> a computer that old is a tricky experience. it may work, but dont count > >> on it.
> >> You *can* install linux, but on an IPC, i dont recommend it. It works > >> fine on the more powerful boxes, but on a 25Mhz SPARC I, it seems even > >> slower than Solaris 7.
> >> If you are going to try linux, try Debian Woody. Its the only one I have > >> found which seems to install relatively cleanly. Even Sarge seems to > >> have problems.
> >If you're trying older Linux releases, watch out for the crippling > >memory management bug on the sun4c. It makes the system useless, you'll > >need a kernel with that fixed. ISTR I hit this problem with Debian 2.2.
> >> Forget SunOS unless your doing the antique computer thing. its very slow.
> >Actually SunOS 4 isn't slow at all on the class of machine we're > >talking about -- it's feels similar to, or even faster in general than > >the more recent releases of NetBSD. It's a nice unbloated BSD.
> I put 2 NICs in one of our IPCs, and used it as the office router/firewall for > years. Sunos 2.7, no speed problems..
But also not related to SunOS 4 except in name. SunOS 4 is BSD, leaner and meaner (also runs on (68K) Sun3 up to 4.1.1).
pech...@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes: >SunOS isn't too slow on the IPC. >I've run it on ELC's, SparcStation 2's, IPX's and such.
Yeah - the core OS is fine especially if only what is really needed is installed. What really eats resources is the Xserver though - so it's a good box for the OS itself but bad for anything that needs a GUI-based console.
>I think it performs equivalent to NetBSD on the box. The main problem >is the limited memory.
True. But the modern BSD's handle that a lot better. I guess it's also a factor of current SunOS releases not really having to be so frugal with system resource management and the fact that SunOS itself is a lot bulkier than it was 5 or 10 years ago.
>The IPX is a bit better cpu... I have one of them and a couple of >the Sparc-up upgraded SparcStation2's.
Plus the IPX (like the SS2) provides the option to upgrade the CPU to an 80 MHz Weitek PowerUp (if you can actually find them!).
Regards,
Craig. -- Craig Dewick (cr...@poison.lios.apana.org.au). http://lios.apana.org.au/~craig APANA Sydney Deputy Regional Co-ordinator. Operator of Jedi (APANA Sydney POP) Always striving for a secure long-term future in an insecure short-term world Have you exported a crypto system today? Do your bit to undermine the NSA.
>>SunOS isn't too slow on the IPC. >>I've run it on ELC's, SparcStation 2's, IPX's and such.
>Yeah - the core OS is fine especially if only what is really needed is >installed. What really eats resources is the Xserver though - so it's a good >box for the OS itself but bad for anything that needs a GUI-based console.
>>I think it performs equivalent to NetBSD on the box. The main problem >>is the limited memory.
>True. But the modern BSD's handle that a lot better. I guess it's also a >factor of current SunOS releases not really having to be so frugal with >system resource management and the fact that SunOS itself is a lot bulkier >than it was 5 or 10 years ago.
I think SunOS4 was set up to boot with small memory on the box and tuning may help it.
>>The IPX is a bit better cpu... I have one of them and a couple of >>the Sparc-up upgraded SparcStation2's.
>Plus the IPX (like the SS2) provides the option to upgrade the CPU to an 80 >MHz Weitek PowerUp (if you can actually find them!).
Yup... I did it to a couple of SparcStations (actually one an Opus SS2 clone and an IPX here...)
Still not a smoking fast box though.
>Regards,
>Craig. >-- > Craig Dewick (cr...@poison.lios.apana.org.au). http://lios.apana.org.au/~craig > APANA Sydney Deputy Regional Co-ordinator. Operator of Jedi (APANA Sydney POP) > Always striving for a secure long-term future in an insecure short-term world > Have you exported a crypto system today? Do your bit to undermine the NSA.
-- -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com
pech...@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes: >I think SunOS4 was set up to boot with small memory on the box and >tuning may help it.
Yes SunOS 4.x was quite a 'lean and mean' operating system. Pity Sun opted to dump it after the 4.1.4 release.
>>Plus the IPX (like the SS2) provides the option to upgrade the CPU to an 80 >>MHz Weitek PowerUp (if you can actually find them!). >Yup... I did it to a couple of SparcStations (actually one an Opus SS2 >clone and an IPX here...) >Still not a smoking fast box though.
No but it's quite an improvement over the standard configuration given that it's a raw doubling of the CPU's internal processing speed. That's like replacing a 450 Mhz UltraSparc-II processor in an Ultra 60 with a 900 Mhz one, and of course they don't exist except in theory. 8-)
Randomize <dgsof...@gmail.com> wrote: > install. I would prefer to run Debian but I would be happy with NetBSD > or some realy old version of SunOS.
Have you considered running OpenBSD on it? The IPC is a supported system, and I've found OpenBSD to run quite well on low memory systems (I've not run it on the IPC specifically).
>> graham salkin wrote: >>> Solaris 7 is the last supported solaris release on an IPC. However, you >>> should be prepared to not use X, and fully load it with whatever memory >>> you have.
>>> I have found better performance with the BSDs, NetBSD and OpenBSD seem >>> to work acceptably.
>>> I gave up using the CD, and netinstalled them. >>> Using CD-R's in a CD-rom drive of the sort of age suitable to work with >>> a computer that old is a tricky experience. it may work, but dont count >>> on it.
>>> You *can* install linux, but on an IPC, i dont recommend it. It works >>> fine on the more powerful boxes, but on a 25Mhz SPARC I, it seems even >>> slower than Solaris 7.
>>> If you are going to try linux, try Debian Woody. Its the only one I have >>> found which seems to install relatively cleanly. Even Sarge seems to >>> have problems. >> If you're trying older Linux releases, watch out for the crippling >> memory management bug on the sun4c. It makes the system useless, you'll >> need a kernel with that fixed. ISTR I hit this problem with Debian 2.2.
>>> Forget SunOS unless your doing the antique computer thing. its very slow. >> Actually SunOS 4 isn't slow at all on the class of machine we're >> talking about -- it's feels similar to, or even faster in general than >> the more recent releases of NetBSD. It's a nice unbloated BSD.
> I put 2 NICs in one of our IPCs, and used it as the office router/firewall for > years. Sunos 2.7, no speed problems..
> Ted
I've found OpenBSD to be very good for old sparc boxes. I run them headless, usually as mail or web servers. The IPC is particularly slow, but it manages to some light mail and web duties. I've installed both OpenBSD 3.5 and 3.7 on the IPC without any trouble. I haven't tried any other versions yet.
