dz11

[drforbin]

anything new on getting the dz11 to connect > than 8 lines running simh
pdp10?


thanxs guys

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-06-19 01:34, drforbin wrote:
> anything new on getting the dz11 to connect> than 8 lines running simh
> pdp10?

I have no idea to the specifics of what you are asking, or the context,
or anything.

But I thought I'd just point out that a real DZ11 actually only have 8
lines, and there are probably a few bitfields in the registers of that
device which are limited to just identifying 8 lines as well.

However, if you are running simh, and want more than 8 lines, there is
really nothing preventing you from attaching multiple virtual DZ11s to
your machine...

Johnny

[drforbin]

Thanxs for responding....

The dz11 emulation in simh is suppose to support 32 lines.
4 dz11 devices...you set the number of lines with "set
lines=numberoflines"

I have done that and recompiled monitor with 32 line support...
I only get 8 lines....

what am I doing wrong?


DR.

[Rich Alderson]

drforbin <drfo...@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanxs for responding....

> The dz11 emulation in simh is suppose to support 32 lines.
> 4 dz11 devices...you set the number of lines with "set
> lines=numberoflines"

> I have done that and recompiled monitor with 32 line support...
> I only get 8 lines....

> what am I doing wrong?

Have you tried asking on the SimH mailing list? (I haven't seen the question
raised there.)

It would be helpful if, when you ask your question you include the output of
"show config", and possibly the DZ11 section of F.MAC and S.MAC as well.

--
Rich Alderson ne...@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-06-19 19:30, drforbin wrote:
> Thanxs for responding....
>
> The dz11 emulation in simh is suppose to support 32 lines.

Uh... That will be very *not* DZ11 compatible... One DZ11 can only
support 8 lines. You could be creative, I guess, and do an extension of
the DZ11, which would support more lines. There is one free bit after
the line field in the registers, which would allow you to easily extend
it to 16 lines. But beyond that, you need to become more creative.
However, all this is moot unless you also change the device drivers for
the OS, since they too will mask out the line number and only allow for
eight lines today.
All this is per controller. Of course you can have several controllers,
which allows you to get many many lines total on your system.

But that also means you need to know what to set the CSR address to, and
configure your OS to actually handle all the controllers...

> 4 dz11 devices...you set the number of lines with "set
> lines=numberoflines"

Are you saying that you set up four DZ11 with 8 lines each, or one DZ11
with 32 lines?

> I have done that and recompiled monitor with 32 line support...
> I only get 8 lines....

Sounds like one DZ11 to me.

> what am I doing wrong?

Don't know. Although your description here seems to be confused. Are you
sure what you are doing, what can be done, and what the expected result
would be?

Johnny

>
>
> DR.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:04:19 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
>> On 2012-06-19 01:34, drforbin wrote:
>>> anything new on getting the dz11 to connect> than 8 lines running simh
>>> pdp10?
>>
>> I have no idea to the specifics of what you are asking, or the context,
>> or anything.
>>
>> But I thought I'd just point out that a real DZ11 actually only have 8
>> lines, and there are probably a few bitfields in the registers of that
>> device which are limited to just identifying 8 lines as well.
>>
>> However, if you are running simh, and want more than 8 lines, there is
>> really nothing preventing you from attaching multiple virtual DZ11s to
>> your machine...
>>
>> Johnny
>

--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[drforbin]

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:05:38 -0400, Rich Alderson wrote:

> drforbin <drfo...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Thanxs for responding....
>
>> The dz11 emulation in simh is suppose to support 32 lines.
>> 4 dz11 devices...you set the number of lines with "set
>> lines=numberoflines"
>
>> I have done that and recompiled monitor with 32 line support...
>> I only get 8 lines....
>
>> what am I doing wrong?
>
> Have you tried asking on the SimH mailing list? (I haven't seen the
> question raised there.)
>
> It would be helpful if, when you ask your question you include the
> output of "show config", and possibly the DZ11 section of F.MAC and
> S.MAC as well.

simh dz11 is set to 32 lines set dz lines=32

here is s.mac


RH21IV==224 ;INTERRUPT VECTOR ADDRESS OF 2ND
RH11

;CD20 DEFINITIONS
CD11BA==3777160 ;CD20 DEVICE ADDRESS
CDRIVT==230 ;INTERRUPT VECTOR ADDRESS

;DZ11 DEFINITIONS
DZ11BA==3760010 ;BASE ADDRESS FOR FIRST DZ11
DZ11IV==340 ;INTERRUPT VECTOR ADDRESS FOR
FIRST DZ11
^L;PROCESSOR INSTRUCTIONS

OPDEF APRID [700000,,0] ;GET PROCESSOR SERIAL NUMBER, ETC.
OPDEF WRAPR [700200,,0] ;WRITE APR
OPDEF RDAPR [700240,,0] ;READ APR
OPDEF WRPI [700600,,0] ;WRITE THE PI SYSTEM
OPDEF RDPI [700640,,0] ;READ THE PI SYSTEM
OPDEF WRUBR [701140,,0] ;WRITE THE USER BASE REGISTER
OPDEF CLRPT [701100,,0] ;CLEAR PAGE TABLE ENTRY FOR EFF ADR
OPDEF RDUBR [701040,,0] ;READ THE USER BASE REGISTER
OPDEF WREBR [701200,,0]


what do you need from f.mac?

[Don North]

Here is what SIMH does when you change the line setting on the DZ11:

sim> set dz lines=8
sim> sho dz
DZ, address=17760100-17760107*, vector=300-304, lines=8, not attached, 8b
sim> set dz lines=16
sim> sho dz
DZ, address=17760100-17760117*, vector=300-314, lines=16, not attached, 8b
sim> set dz lines=24
sim> sho dz
DZ, address=17760100-17760127*, vector=300-324, lines=24, not attached, 8b
sim> set dz lines=32
sim> sho dz
DZ, address=17760100-17760137*, vector=300-334, lines=32, not attached, 8b

So 8 lines => 1 controller, 16 lines => 2 controllers, etc.

So when you configure SIMH for 32 lines, you are setting up four separate
DZ11 devices of 8 lines each.

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-06-20 09:28, Don North wrote:
> Here is what SIMH does when you change the line setting on the DZ11:
>
> sim> set dz lines=8
> sim> sho dz
> DZ, address=17760100-17760107*, vector=300-304, lines=8, not attached, 8b
> sim> set dz lines=16
> sim> sho dz
> DZ, address=17760100-17760117*, vector=300-314, lines=16, not attached, 8b
> sim> set dz lines=24
> sim> sho dz
> DZ, address=17760100-17760127*, vector=300-324, lines=24, not attached, 8b
> sim> set dz lines=32
> sim> sho dz
> DZ, address=17760100-17760137*, vector=300-334, lines=32, not attached, 8b
>
> So 8 lines => 1 controller, 16 lines => 2 controllers, etc.
>
> So when you configure SIMH for 32 lines, you are setting up four separate
> DZ11 devices of 8 lines each.

Ah! Thanks Don. That explains it all for me. And it is sane.
So, drforbin needs to define all the DZ11s in his config on the PDP-10
side for it to work. If he defines only one, then yes, of course he will
only see 8 lines.

Johnny

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:

(snip)

> Uh... That will be very *not* DZ11 compatible... One DZ11 can only
> support 8 lines. You could be creative, I guess, and do an extension of
> the DZ11, which would support more lines.

(snip)

>> 4 dz11 devices...you set the number of lines with "set
>> lines=numberoflines"

> Are you saying that you set up four DZ11 with 8 lines each,
> or one DZ11 with 32 lines?

But what IS a DZ11. Is it a PC board with ICs on it?
If so, then I would say zero DZ11 in all cases.

Now, say someone made a PC board with 32 ports that took
up the same CSR ports as four regular DZ11s, and the same
interrupt vectors as four of them, and even more called the
board a DZ11. (With a little luck, someone forgot to trademark
DZ11, and they could sell theirs.)

Even more, since it is all virtual, you can now write an emulation
for this board.

Physical devices are easy to count, virtual ones not so easy.

If you partition a disk drive, then mount the partitions under
Windows or DOS then each has a drive letter, and each, as seen
by DOS, a disk drive. But still, physically there is only one.

I little google search seems to indicate that there are physical
cards implmenting more than 8 ports.

-- glen

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-06-20 12:58, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>> Uh... That will be very *not* DZ11 compatible... One DZ11 can only
>> support 8 lines. You could be creative, I guess, and do an extension of
>> the DZ11, which would support more lines.
>
> (snip)
>>> 4 dz11 devices...you set the number of lines with "set
>>> lines=numberoflines"
>
>> Are you saying that you set up four DZ11 with 8 lines each,
>> or one DZ11 with 32 lines?
>
> But what IS a DZ11. Is it a PC board with ICs on it?
> If so, then I would say zero DZ11 in all cases.

??? We are talking about something under simh here...

> Now, say someone made a PC board with 32 ports that took
> up the same CSR ports as four regular DZ11s, and the same
> interrupt vectors as four of them, and even more called the
> board a DZ11. (With a little luck, someone forgot to trademark
> DZ11, and they could sell theirs.)

This don't make sense. The bus on a PC don't work the same way as a
Unibus anyway.

> Even more, since it is all virtual, you can now write an emulation
> for this board.

Hmmm? But we are talking about a DZ11 under simh. What actual hardware
you might be running on is of less importance. That is something for the
host OS to worry about.

> Physical devices are easy to count, virtual ones not so easy.

I don't totally agree. Virtual (as in simulated ones) are just as easy
to count.

> If you partition a disk drive, then mount the partitions under
> Windows or DOS then each has a drive letter, and each, as seen
> by DOS, a disk drive. But still, physically there is only one.

Yes. Same thing can be done with some controllers on a PDP-11. :-)

> I little google search seems to indicate that there are physical
> cards implmenting more than 8 ports.

There are plenty of cards that have more than 8 serial ports. Not sure
what that proves.

Johnny

[drforbin]

I believe I have 32 lines defined in tops10
any help?

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:51 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:

> On 2012-06-20 09:28, Don North wrote:
>> Here is what SIMH does when you change the line setting on the DZ11:
>>
>> sim> set dz lines=8 sim> sho dz DZ, address=17760100-17760107*,
>> vector=300-304, lines=8, not attached, 8b sim> set dz lines=16 sim> sho
>> dz DZ, address=17760100-17760117*, vector=300-314, lines=16, not
>> attached, 8b sim> set dz lines=24 sim> sho dz DZ,
>> address=17760100-17760127*, vector=300-324, lines=24, not attached, 8b
>> sim> set dz lines=32 sim> sho dz DZ, address=17760100-17760137*,
>> vector=300-334, lines=32, not attached, 8b
>>
>> So 8 lines => 1 controller, 16 lines => 2 controllers, etc.
>>
>> So when you configure SIMH for 32 lines, you are setting up four
>> separate DZ11 devices of 8 lines each.
>
> Ah! Thanks Don. That explains it all for me. And it is sane.
> So, drforbin needs to define all the DZ11s in his config on the PDP-10
> side for it to work. If he defines only one, then yes, of course he will
> only see 8 lines.
>
> Johnny
>
>

[drforbin]

how do I configure tops-10 for 32 line 4 dz11s use?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-06-21 04:34, drforbin wrote:
> I believe I have 32 lines defined in tops10
> any help?

You need to define 4 DZ11 controllers in TOPS10. Each with its own CSR
and interrupt vector.

Johnny

[drforbin]

ok..how do I define the 4 devices?
I know how to compile a monitor...

[ger...@no.spam.mail.com]

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:31:53 -0400, drforbin <drfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ok..how do I define the 4 devices?
> I know how to compile a monitor...

So run MONGEN and give the right answer when it prompts you with «DZ-11 TTY
lines (0-32):». Then compile your monitor. :)

Take a look at the following URL for the most updated instructions: chapter 9,
section 9.1.2.1, page 9-8, question 25:

http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops10v704_docc/01/10,7/docupd/sig.mem.html

HTH,
G.

[drforbin]

I did that....Still no go.

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-06-21 16:31, drforbin wrote:
> I did that....Still no go.

I hope someone can help with that part. I know too little of the
internals of TOPS-10 or Tops-20 to help more here. :-(

Johnny

>
>
> On 06/21/12 03:59, ger...@no.spam.mail.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:31:53 -0400, drforbin <drfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ok..how do I define the 4 devices?
>>> I know how to compile a monitor...
>>

>> So run MONGEN and give the right answer when it prompts you with ĢDZ-11 TTY
>> lines (0-32):ģ. Then compile your monitor. :)

[drforbin]

no help guys?

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:38:34 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:

> On 2012-06-21 16:31, drforbin wrote:
>> I did that....Still no go.
>
> I hope someone can help with that part. I know too little of the
> internals of TOPS-10 or Tops-20 to help more here. :-(
>
> Johnny
>
>
>>
>> On 06/21/12 03:59, ger...@no.spam.mail.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:31:53 -0400, drforbin <drfo...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ok..how do I define the 4 devices? I know how to compile a
>>>> monitor...
>>>
>>> So run MONGEN and give the right answer when it prompts you with

>>> «DZ-11 TTY lines (0-32):». Then compile your monitor. :)

>>>
>>> Take a look at the following URL for the most updated instructions:
>>> chapter 9,
>>> section 9.1.2.1, page 9-8, question 25:
>>>
>>> http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops10v704_docc/01/10,7/docupd/
sig.mem.html
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>> G.
>>>
>>>

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---