OT Interesting Note
Kevin Childers
sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers) are
really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of makes
you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales staff,
simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary on
the current state of VISTA?
Hank Arnold (MVP)
It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and
they have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the
business offerings have XP as well as Vista.
Like it or not, new OS's will always have problems with legacy hardware
and software. For consumers, this can be manageable In a corporate
environment, it's no small thing to have to upgrade even one
application. In many cases, it's just not possible. What is an
acceptable cost to a consumer is not to a corporation. Try multiplying
that $40 upgrade cost by 100 or 1,000 or even 10,000.... Add to that the
manpower/hardware costs to do the upgrades and it becomes *VERY*
expensive *VERY* fast...
I support a small Hospice in upstate NY. We have two critical
applications that the vendors will not support on Vista.
Bottom line is that corporate acceptance of Vista is glacial compared to
the consumer market....
--
Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP
Windows Server - Directory Services
Frank
software several years behind. Imagine transition cost for a
corporation with thousands of pc's. Other clients pushed me into
upgrading because I would often get in documents, usually latest Word
versions, that I would have to tell producer to go back and save in
earlier version that I can open and read.
Frank
Joan F (MI)
from DOS to Windows.
Notan
> When I retired from the government in January 1998 they were just moving
> from DOS to Windows.
<snip>
The US Government living in the dark?
Please, say it isn't so!
--
Notan
S.Lewis
"Notan" <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote in message
news:2smdnbOjuaMCbCHb...@giganews.com...
"It ain't so."
Why do you hate freedom?
-Stew
Kevin Childers
"Hank Arnold (MVP)" <ras...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:D4Wui.359$Jn6...@newsfe12.lga...
Also look at the options, many consumer machines only offer VISTA as an OS
Barry Watzman
typical of ANY new operating system that has been out less than about a
year). The CORPORATE sales organizations of ALL of the OEMs (Dell, HP,
Gateway, even Toshiba) still offer XP. You won't find it at retail,
however, with the possible sole exception of CompUSA.
Barry Watzman
do not reflect on Vista but rather on the nature of ANY new operating
system. XP was the same way.
robert...@my-deja.com
My company laptop dual boots XP and Windows 2000 - because a lot of
the industrial software (Loader-monitors for older PLCs, diagnostic
tools for DC and AC drives) does not yet run on XP. 2000 is still
more reliable than XP, of course.
I would not be surprised if a lot of mission-critical software does
not run under vista, despite the Beta being available to developers
for half an ice age. They are not stupid. They knew that Vista SP1
would be radically different from the Beta they were being offered to
develop with.
Robert E. Watts
I doubt you guys realize this, but you are cross posting on a newsgroup that
has absolutely no interest in your topic.
Please delete alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell from your messages.
Thank you.
bobwatts
"Kevin Childers" <kchi...@mail.win.org> wrote in message
news:DxRui.332$_86...@newsfe03.lga...
Hank Arnold (MVP)
Absolutely correct....
--
Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP
Windows Server - Directory Services
Ogden Johnson III
>Corporate IT departments are not installing Vista at this time (which is
>typical of ANY new operating system that has been out less than about a
>year). The CORPORATE sales organizations of ALL of the OEMs (Dell, HP,
>Gateway, even Toshiba) still offer XP. You won't find it at retail,
>however, with the possible sole exception of CompUSA.
Not surprising, and common to a lot of small companies,
particularly those that work under contract to/with larger
corporations and/or the US Gummint (see Joan F (MI)'s post above,
our sponsors at Naval Sea Systems Command didn't standardize on
Windows and MS Word/Excel/etc, until 1998).
My personal, and therefore my company's "corporate" stance since
I was what passed for their "IT" department, was that I'd never
buy a M$ program until after at least the first Service Pack/*.1
or *.2 version. Never bought Win 3.1 at all.
Semi-retired now, my decision on Vista lies in the joint hands of
God and M$. If God calls me back before M$ discontinues all
continuing support of XP, I'll never do Vista. If M$ beats God
to the punch, I'll consider Vista, under duress.
[My old, now retired boss operates three computers - one my old
L733 which I put XP on (yes, marginal at 733 MHz, but with a
memory UG it met my/meets his limited needs), and two of our
company's old Win98 machines - which run a lot of his favorite
software that won't run under XP. He hates XP, but uses it for
new software that won't run under Win 98.]
--
OJ III
Joan F (MI)
Barry Watzman
I would take issue with that. So would lots of other people. XP is the
best OS MS has ever released.
Barry Watzman
S.Lewis
"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46bd3968$0$20547$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> It's worth noting that while Hank's comments are entirely correct, they do
> not reflect on Vista but rather on the nature of ANY new operating system.
> XP was the same way.
>
<snip>
I don't remember the distaste for XP as being nearly this pronounced. Yes,
there were issues. But in context, consumers were pretty accepting of XP as
most were eager to leave WinMe. Very eager.
Corporates were either living with NT4 or 5 (Win2K, and some still are) and
were in no rush to migrate.
I don't think many people would argue about the stability and improvement of
WinXP Home over WinMe.
The excitement for Vista has been underwhelming, imo.
Stew
S.Lewis
> Re: "2000 is still more reliable than XP, of course"
>
> I would take issue with that. So would lots of other people. XP is the
> best OS MS has ever released.
>
<snip>
I completely agree.
Joan F (MI)
Tony Harding
Always the way - companies incur an enormous expense upgrading to a new OS.
While on the topic, does anyone have any stats/SWAGs as to how many
companies have not upgraded to XP? I'll bet it's not a small percentage.
When I retired from a NYC money center bank in 2002, they had just
upgraded workstations PCs from NT3.5 to NT 4.0, if that give you an idea.
Tony Harding
> Only because they are OLD and/or (probably and) refurbished laptops.
Lenovo still offers a choice of Vista xxx or XP Pro on their newest
models, e.g., their R61 ThinkPad. The Vista Home (might be Premium) is
included and Vista Business & XP Pro cost an additional $30.
Bambam
This newsgroup is . . . quality not quantity
--
* * Pebble in Boulder * *
who would never underestimate the humble floppy
Barry Watzman
resistance to XP was. With XP, you had the resistance because it was
"new". But with Vista, you do have that, but there is more to it than
that. First, the user interface is "more different". Second, I think
that driver and older software compatibility is more of an issue.
Third, Vista's enhanced (arguably "over enhanced") security and UAC are
problematic and annoying. Fourth, if you liked PA and WGA, you will
love SPP. Unfortunately, however, pretty much everyone hated PA & WGA,
so SPP is pretty much the anti-piracy platform from hell. Put that all
together and you have the reasons for the resistance to Vista.
Barry Watzman
still offer XP (MS is allowing them to do that for the remainder of this
calendar year). That includes Dell, HP, Gateway, Lenovo and Toshiba.
But you will only find it on machines sold by direct or corporate
channels ... you cannot go into a retail store and find a machine "off
the shelf" with XP (with the possible exception of CompUSA, which is
more corporate oriented).
robert...@my-deja.com
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
I have had 3 of these Flaptops now, and on every one XP occasionally
blue screens when opening word2003. W2000 does not. I also regularly
get pairs of dialogues complaining that certain memory addressses
could not be read. Windows explorer, or IE will trigger these. That
never happens in W2K. ctrl-alt-del to access the task manager works
every time in W2k. In XP it frequently has to be repeated. Changing
from DHCP to a manual IP address does not require a reboot in W2K. In
XP it often does. Some USB keys are not recognised in XP when plugged
in, but this works perfectly in W2K. The wifi signal strength is
displayed as either 2 bars (no signal) or 5 bars (some signal) in XP.
It works as expected in the older OS.
At home I find my XP machine has got slower as it downloads more and
more microsoft "fixes". My private W2K machine has never done that.
metronid
I saw this debate before.
Windows 95 vs Windows 311
Windows 95 vs 98
Windows 98 vs Windows 2000 and XP
Now XP vs Vista
I am sure there was also a debate about clubs vs arrows.
Arrows vs Guns
Guns vs cannons
I wonder what the outcome will be
Barry Watzman
on any of like a dozen systems running XP in like 6 months. What you
are seeing is simply not typical. Other people are not, on a widespread
basis, experiencing that.
metronid
>
> - Show quoted text -
In 2 years this argument will be mute
Bill will not support XP any more
Progarmmers will not begin to just program in recent OS's
Do I still use XP
Yes
Why
Because some of my hardware is not Vista Compatible
Actually jsut one part.
Manufacturer has been saying for 6 months that new drivers are a
coming.
Have I tried Vista
Got it and used it
Likes a lot of memory
Takes up a lot of HD
I use multiple OS's
Hell I still have a copy of Win 311
Robert E. Watts
"metronid" <metr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> Hell I still have a copy of Win 311
>
Hell, I still use my old Etch-A-Sketch laptop ! Even has the original
"operating system" on it.
I almost never have any trouble with it, and when it locks up, I just give
it a shake, and it's good to go some more !
I sure like the old fashioned computers.
bob
Tony Harding
> Kevin Childers wrote:
>> Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
>> sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his
>> coworkers) are
>> really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
>> every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
>> wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of
>> makes
>> you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales
>> staff,
>> simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative
>> commentary on
>> the current state of VISTA?
>>
>>
>
> It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
> reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and
> they have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the
> business offerings have XP as well as Vista.
The bigger the business, the slower they are to upgrade the OSes on
their workstations, e.g., when I retired in 2002 my employer (a NYC
bank) was still running NT 4.0 on their workstations, and that was a
recent upgrade from NT 3.51 (IIRC).
Tony Harding
The terrorists have won. :(