OS X -- What the hell is this?
Albert Steg
changes with relative ease. TOday I bought and installed OS X and find
myself utterly bewildered. If just managed to reboot with system 9 and
regained internet access (phew) so I'm here to vent.
The installation process disbabled my Enternet software, crippling my
internet access, and even when I got back to system 9 I found my internet
aliases (eudora and netscape) hidden from my desktop and replaced with
Explorer. Felt like a Microsoft ploy.
...and the interface is totally new, isn't it?" Why is there no warning or
explanation in the manual that this system represents a radical departure
from the Apple of the past 15 years?
\Am I alone in being dismayeed and bewildered here? These huge
Playskool-style icons, the inability to open two windows at one time...the
oily, gimmicky sluuuuurping of windows down to the Windows-like "dock"
instead of the crisp windowshade feature of previous systems....these are
improvements?
How about an explanation of the itools program, rather than just thrusting
it at you in the config process? Can I use Eudora *instead* of Itools. . .
or do I have to use Itools to access eudora now?
. . . granted I have to give it a chance, but I am *not* looking forward to
this.
albert
AGB
Albert Steg <as...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> ...and the interface is totally new, isn't it?" Why is there no warning or
> explanation in the manual that this system represents a radical departure
> from the Apple of the past 15 years?
>
> Am I alone in being dismayeed and bewildered here?
Pretty much, yeah.
The buzz about OSX being based on unix and a complete rewrite is over a
year old. Have you not read ANYTHING in the mac press or web sites? Were
you hanging out in taliban country?
Carl Witthoft
Albert Steg <as...@mindspring.com> held forth the proposition that:
->As an Apple User of 15 years, I've gone through a goodly number of system
->changes with relative ease. TOday I bought and installed OS X and find
->myself utterly bewildered. If just managed to reboot with system 9 and
->regained internet access (phew) so I'm here to vent.
->
Go to http://homepage.mac.com/rgriff/files/osxguide2.pdf
That's a great website for mac info in the first place; the OSX guide I pointed
you to is very easy to read.
And as frustrating as it is to re-engineer a system, and to go out and change or
upgrade dozens of apps and shareware tools and goodies (which I have avoided
doing myself so far :- ) ), the fact is that the fundamental MacOS engine has
been out of date since about 1990. You can argue Mach vs BSD Unix, but Unix
and or Linux is the only way to go. OSX has a Unix-clone core, so it runs far
more reliably, crash-free (except for certain peripheral control daemons on
occasion), and in general is much easier for developers to write code for.
Carl
--
Carl Witthoft c...@theworld.com ca...@aoainc.com http://world.std.com/~cgw
carlwi...@alum.colby.edu
Cathy Stevenson
Steg <as...@mindspring.com> wrote:
You must read nothing at all about computers or technologic
development. The fact that OS 10 is a totally different operating
system has received enormous media coverage and publicity.
You can open more than one window at a time. Did you go through your
Finder preferences and the System Preferences?
There is a Windowshade add-on for OS 10 - you can get it from
versiontracker.com.
The Help Center is actuallly quite informative if you want info on
aspects of OS 10 - like iTools. You do not have to use iTools at all.
There ia a beta Eudora for OS 10 - the final is still in development.
IIf you don't like the Eudora beta, you can use the OS 10 mail app or
use your old Eudora in the Classic environment.
Cathy
--
"there's a dance or two in the old dame yet." - mehitabel
CStevenson, M.D.
cats...@best.com
Albert Steg
<not...@mydeskNOT.com> wrote:
> >
> > Am I alone in being dismayeed and bewildered here?
>
> Pretty much, yeah.
>
> The buzz about OSX being based on unix and a complete rewrite is over a
> year old. Have you not read ANYTHING in the mac press or web sites? Were
> you hanging out in taliban country?
Heh -- something like that. Actually, I haven't been reading any Apple
literature, so I guess I deserve what I'm getting. I've been cruising
along in my happy-go-lucky way all these years generally allowing my
immediate needs dictate my purchases.
. . . in this case, I'd been noticing that my machine was freezing with
increasikng regularity over the past year, and my Quicken software was
getting glitchy. So I decided to upgrade to Quicken 2002, which has a
"built for OS X" sticker on it. Reckoning that I might as well upgrade my
system in order to get best use out of the new program, and having a couple
days free to tinker, I went for the new system "on the spot." oops.
having spent the afternoon playing, I'm feeling better about it, kinda....
a.
[dani]
Albert Steg wrote:
> As an Apple User of 15 years, I've gone through a goodly number of system
> changes with relative ease. TOday I bought and installed OS X and find
> myself utterly bewildered. If just managed to reboot with system 9 and
> regained internet access (phew) so I'm here to vent.
>
> The installation process disbabled my Enternet software, crippling my
> internet access, and even when I got back to system 9 I found my internet
> aliases (eudora and netscape) hidden from my desktop and replaced with
> Explorer. Felt like a Microsoft ploy.
>
I had no problems with installation. Are you sure you did it by the book?
> ...and the interface is totally new, isn't it?" Why is there no warning or
> explanation in the manual that this system represents a radical departure
> from the Apple of the past 15 years?
>
The interface isn't so radically different in my opinion. I caught on
pretty quickly. The thing that took me a few hours to learn is the new
locations of stuff that previously was all in the System folder or root
level, which is now in the User folders, apparantly much like a UNIX
multi-user system. This is actually very intuitive and you should get
the hang of it quickly.
> \Am I alone in being dismayeed and bewildered here? These huge
> Playskool-style icons,
You can resize the icons to your liking in the "view" menu. At first
glance I was not too taken by the Aqua interface, I thought it looked
cartoony, but it grew on me quickly; now I much prefer it to any other
GUI that I've ever used.
> the inability to open two windows at one time...
You can open as many windows as you like, try turning off the toolbar or
holding down the apple key while clicking on a folder (might not be
the applekey - I can't remember the key combo at the moment). I think
there's also a global pref that controls whether or not new windows are
opened.
> the
> oily, gimmicky sluuuuurping of windows down to the Windows-like "dock"
> instead of the crisp windowshade feature of previous systems....these are
> improvements?
I think they're improvements; the genie effect is neat-o, try holding
down the shift key while minimizing for a slo-mo effect. And you can
turn off the genie effect if you don't like it. And you can get a
shareware thingie that will bring windowshading to OSX.
>
> How about an explanation of the itools program, rather than just thrusting
> it at you in the config process?
That might be convenient. Apple software does seem to suffer a lack of
documentation. But there's some iTools help in the Apple Help Viewer,
and on the Apple website.
> Can I use Eudora *instead* of Itools. . .
Yes I believe so.
> or do I have to use Itools to access eudora now?
>
Nopers.
> . . . granted I have to give it a chance, but I am *not* looking forward to
> this.
I guess it's natural to become a bit unsettled by change. But you should
get the hang of OSX fairly rapidly and before long you'll probably be
glad to say bye-bye to familiar old OS9. Learning OSX has been fun for
me, presently I'm learning the UNIX command line and the Apache server.
dani
<dani...@arcticmail.com>
--
"No real social change has ever been brought about without a revolution.
. . . Revolution is but thought carried into action."
--Emma Goldman
Woody Hanscom
First off, I hope your experiences with OS X continue to improve, as
you indicated they had started to in a followup post. Figured I could
go ahead and jump in the fray, though... ;)
In article <asteg-5FD600....@news.mindspring.com>, Albert
Steg <as...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> The installation process disbabled my Enternet software, crippling my
> internet access, and even when I got back to system 9 I found my internet
> aliases (eudora and netscape) hidden from my desktop and replaced with
> Explorer. Felt like a Microsoft ploy.
That's something of a surprise. Each time I've done an OS X install
(starting with the Public Beta), it's gone smooth as silk. Really
unsure as to what may have gone on to actually disable anything.
> ...and the interface is totally new, isn't it?" Why is there no warning or
> explanation in the manual that this system represents a radical departure
> from the Apple of the past 15 years?
Well, it's definitely a new system, but the manual I got - while
_really_ underwhelming - did at least have a cursory "this is what
you're gonna get" feel to it. Much as 'puter people sterotypically go
with a "install first, read later if something explodes" attitude,
sometimes it can be helpful to at least flip through the documentation
at least once first... ;)
I am, along with others, somewhat surprised that you were caught so
completely off guard - wherever you've been, you must have been really
out of touch. If you start poking around the web, though, there's a lot
of good information on all the various changes, both why they were done
and what the various repercussions are. The OS X manual that Carl
linked to (http://homepage.mac.com/rgriff/files/osxguide2.pdf) is a
good start, I'd also recommend spending some time digging through Mac
OS X Hints (http://www.macosxhints.com/), lots of good info on there.
> \Am I alone in being dismayeed and bewildered here? These huge
> Playskool-style icons,
These can be scaled up and down to your preferences...they are a wee
bit on the big side by default.
> the inability to open two windows at one time
You can have more than two open at once. Check your System Preferences
and View Options (under the Finder's View menu) for the various options
there.
> ...the
> oily, gimmicky sluuuuurping of windows
Some people like the 'genie' effect, some don't - I've switched it to
the 'scale' effect, as it's a bit less processor-intensive (and
therefore a bit quicker on my machine).
> down to the Windows-like "dock"
It takes some getting used to, but I've found the dock to be a very
nice addition (though, I've gotta admit, I've liked certain aspects of
the Windows taskbar too). I keep my dock devoid of any aliases, so that
I don't have to try to distinguish between icons of running aps and
icons of apps that I can run if I want, and only use it for whatever's
running at the moment. For me it works much better as a application
switcher than as a launcher, but different things work for different
people...experiment with it a bit, after the initial shock, you may
find it more to your liking.
> instead of the crisp windowshade feature of previous systems....
As has been noted by a couple people, there is a shareware program that
will bring windowshading back to OS X (though I don't use it myself).
> these are
> improvements?
Overall, yeah...just improvements with a bit more learning curve than
has been necessary for past OS updates. But then, past OS updates
didn't completely rewrite the OS from the ground up, either.... :)
> How about an explanation of the itools program, rather than just thrusting
> it at you in the config process?
Apple would do well to explain this a bit more. However, breifly,
iTools isn't so much a program as it is a set of services that Apple
provides that you can use or ignore as you like. It includes free
e-mail with a mac.com suffix, an online storage space (your iDisk), and
some other features that can be explored in more depth on Apple's
iTools site (http://www.apple.com/itools/). You don't have to use any
of them, though, if you don't want or need to.
> Can I use Eudora *instead* of Itools. . .
Yup - I think there's even an OS X version of Eudora out by now. Check
VersionTracker (http://www.versiontracker/macosx/) to be sure.
> or do I have to use Itools to access eudora now?
Nope, though you probably can use Eudora to access your iTools mac.com
e-mail account if you've set one up (though I'm not 100% sure on that).
> . . . granted I have to give it a chance, but I am *not* looking forward to
> this.
Well, go ahead and poke around, play for a while, and give it that
chance. There's some culture shock - especially since you apparently
didn't know what you were in for - but it's not that bad once you get
used to it.
John Gentile
yesterday I finally gave it up and deleted X and decided to go with 9.1
until I can get a new HD. I wasn't really using X since all my apps were
"classic" and I can't afford to upgrade - just the cost of Office would kill
me. So I'm back down to 9.1 and so far seems to be ok.
Anyway, the little bit of X that I did use I really appreciated. I would
like to be able to use it for everything, and that day will come (sooner or
later).
If your system can handle it keep using it and get used to it. As more
things come out in X you will be glad you did.
--
John Gentile President, Rhode Island Apple Group
"I never make mistakes, I only have unexpected learning oportunities!"
RIAG Web page: www.wbwip.com/riag/
Lou Moran
Interesting thread.
I came at OSX from a different angle.
NT/Notes Admin by day Linux user at night.
I had used Macs during my "creative" years in college and in an attempt to
regain those "glory days" I purchased an SE/30. My wife still complains
about that purchase.
But the G4 purchased specifically for OSX has gone over much better. (Odd
when you consider the G4 was, eh hem, expensive and the SE/30 was 100
dollars.)
OSX is unequivocally the best OS I have ever used. it has all the under
pinnings of a real (read UNIX) OS all the glitz of a moden OS (read MacOS)
and the ability to hide either at any time.
Trudge on. You will assimilate.
I mean learn to like it.
--
There's more than one way to do it, mine tend to be wrong
Geoffrey
> As an Apple User of 15 years, I've gone through a goodly number of system
> changes with relative ease. TOday I bought and installed OS X and find
> myself utterly bewildered.
You aren't the only old-timer with a dislike for OS X. Mac owner since
'84 and proud of it.
> ...and the interface is totally new, isn't it?" Why is there no warning
> or explanation in the manual that this system represents a radical
> departure from the Apple of the past 15 years?
Yes, the "Aqua" look is the new face of Mac OS. As to why such a thing
isn't in the manual, His Imperious Jobs-ness wants everyone to make a
clean break from the Macintosh interface of old (he isn't happy about
having to include OS 9 as the "Classic" environment, but without *some*
kind of backwards compatibility, people wouldn't buy OS X).
> Am I alone in being dismayed and bewildered here?
Nope. I for one consider the new Aqua Finder absolutely hideous (my Mac
runs MacOS 8.6, but it looks like System 4.1, all nice minimalist
greyscale stuff) and do not look forward to being forced to use it, no
matter how powerful OS X is under the hood. The window animations and
GUI sound-effects are terrible (worse, they hog CPU time) and completely
un-necessary. The Dock is an almost-there attempt at replicating the
Task Bar of Windows but with far too much bells-and-whistles for my
taste.
> These huge Playskool-style icons, the inability to open two windows at one
> time...the oily, gimmicky sluuuuurping of windows down to the Windows-like
> "dock" instead of the crisp windowshade feature of previous
> systems....these are improvements?
Steve thinks so, a lot of other Mac people think so, and newcomers to
computing think it is wonderful.
We're in the minority, I'm afraid - me, I think the new Finder was
designed by tripped-out gerbils in a jellybean factory :)
> . . . granted I have to give it a chance, but I am *not* looking forward
> to this.
There's pros and cons to every equation, and the new-Mac/ old-Mac one is
no exception. Extreme computer geeks *love* OS X because it is built on
a variation of unix, and it has that bane of banes, a command line
interface and full programmability that those self-same geeks cannot
seem to do without. OS X is virtually crash-proof, although I can make
v10.1 go into "kernel panic" without much effort. There is still a
severe shortage of productivity apps for OS X - OS X has been out a year
and I would still not recommend using it if the machine were to be put
into a productivity environment.
We old-timers are the most vocal because we've felt comfortable with the
gradual evolvement of MacOS over the years, mainly because a lot of the
basic premises of the interface had not changed. Now it is almost
completely different, so we grumble :)
(Oh, and you can have more than one window open at once, but the default
is not set that way. Dumb, but that's Steve Jobs for you ... you do what
he says coz he's in charge of Apple now, or you go out and get a PC and
saddle yourself with that _other_ over-bloated, ugly impression of an
operating system called Windows XP ...)
We abandoned the other platforms because the Macintosh *didn't* have a
command-line ... so what does Steve include and call revolutionary? A
command line interface. I'm still scratching my head over that one :)
Geoffrey
(remove excess baggage to reply via mail)
--
WARNING: mail to this address will be auto-bounced if:
(a) more than 10% original content appears before first quoted matter,
(b) quoted material exceeds 75% of total message content, and/or
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Albert Steg
As most readers will have surmised, all my installing and using problems
were a result of my own confusion and cross state of mind. After reading
the on-line docs so helpfully posted here for me, I've gotten on top of the
system concept and am liking it a lot.
...in fact, I was in such a good mood that I went back to my local Apple
Store to buy an OS X reference book and threw an airport chip and base
station into the shopping basket along with it. Now I'm up and wireless at
home! (If only I was a block closer to my favorite cafe I could be online
with real java!)
Thanks for all the useful responses and commentary -- in a lot of USENET
groups I would've gotten flamed for my premature rant.
best,
albert
el...@techie.net
wrote wonderful things about sparkplugs:
SNIP
>Thanks for all the useful responses and commentary -- in a lot of USENET
>groups I would've gotten flamed for my premature rant.
OSX is still in that warm fuzzy advocacy stage!
Cathy Stevenson
Steg <as...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Well what a difference two days makes!
>
> As most readers will have surmised, all my installing and using problems
> were a result of my own confusion and cross state of mind. After reading
> the on-line docs so helpfully posted here for me, I've gotten on top of the
> system concept and am liking it a lot.
>
> ...in fact, I was in such a good mood that I went back to my local Apple
> Store to buy an OS X reference book and threw an airport chip and base
> station into the shopping basket along with it. Now I'm up and wireless at
> home! (If only I was a block closer to my favorite cafe I could be online
> with real java!)
Why didn't you throw an iPod into the basket while you were there?
Cathy
--
""If we don't alter our course, we're going to end up where we're headed." -
Chinese proverb
CStevenson, M.D.
cats...@best.com
Albert Steg
wrote:
>
> Why didn't you throw an iPod into the basket while you were there?
>
> Cathy
Ha! I *very* nearly did! I'm trying to spread out my toys a bit. I'm
sure I'll have one by the time weather gets warm for jogging again here in
Boston.
a.
Fred Garvin
> Albert Steg <as...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > As an Apple User of 15 years, I've gone through a goodly number of system
> > changes with relative ease. TOday I bought and installed OS X and find
> > myself utterly bewildered.
>
> You aren't the only old-timer with a dislike for OS X. Mac owner since
> '84 and proud of it.
I'll second that. I've been using 10 for a few months now but 4 days
ago I went back to 9.x and I've had far less (read ZERO) problems since.
10 used to crash classic aps often on me for some reason. 10 is also a
memory hog, worse than Windows. 9 believe it or not manages memory
BETTER IMHO. After leaving my ibook on for 2-3 days with 10 I had to
reboot due to the fact that I'd check available memory with the TOP
command and see less than 40m available out of 320! That's a hell of a
"leak". Look at how much memory 10 stuff uses, it's just SICK!
I'm sticking with 9.x from now on, I love it and runs like a dream. ANd
it's MUCH faster.
--
Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that
song? - George Carlin
spindizzie
<Gar...@Truss.net> wrote:
> I'll second that. I've been using 10 for a few months now but 4 days
> ago I went back to 9.x and I've had far less (read ZERO) problems since.
> 10 used to crash classic aps often on me for some reason. 10 is also a
> memory hog, worse than Windows. 9 believe it or not manages memory
> BETTER IMHO. After leaving my ibook on for 2-3 days with 10 I had to
> reboot due to the fact that I'd check available memory with the TOP
> command and see less than 40m available out of 320! That's a hell of a
> "leak". Look at how much memory 10 stuff uses, it's just SICK!
>
> I'm sticking with 9.x from now on, I love it and runs like a dream. ANd
> it's MUCH faster.
Well I have had a Macintosh since the original 512K came out. I admit
that OSX is different, but on the whole I'm DELIGHTED with OSX. When I
got the first 10.0.0 release I played with it for a weekend and then
de-installed it. It was not ready for prime time. Pretty junky. Now
that 10.1.x is out, the OS is much better.
Most of my applications are still Classic ones, but they never
crash---at least they don't crash in classic mode any more often then
they did when I was booted in OS 9.
(You can't rely on the UNIX "top" command to really tell you what's
going on with memory management. A qualified UNIX geek can discuss the
nuts of bolts of that better than I can.)
I find it ironic that Microsoft with each release of Windows gets
farther and farther away from the old DOS command line. And Apple with
OSX has finally offered one. Having BSD UNIX command line access, for
me, is a real hoot.
The bottom line is that if I never want to upgrade to new hardware or
use new applications, I could've stayed on my Mac 512K where Microsoft
Word **AND** the Mac OS both fit on a one-sided 400K floppy disk. It
sure was memory efficient! But staying with that technology is no
fun.
And OS X is a better operating system than the old Mac OS and it
can---despite its pains & difficulties---be fun. It certainly is the
future of Apple.
Jamie LaRue
and installed a year ago. Reviewing my options a year later, I've
decided that the purchase was foolish.
First -- the G3 has no direct USB support. That means that I can't use
my printer (connected via a serial port) whether in OS X or running
Classic, and I can't sync my Palm Pilot. I did buy a USB card for the
Mac, but it didn't work for the Palm Pilot, and Palm doesn't support it.
Back went the USB card!
Sooo...the only way out of this seems to be to buy a new Mac, yes? (Or
possibly, buy a new printer that works with the USB card -- which is
still two new purchases.) While this would be good for the economy, it
does seem decidely user-hostile.
Second, unless I've really missed something here (all too likely, alas)
there is no reason to have OS X on my system. Is there a simple
de-install process? Is there more to it than deleting the Applications,
and System folders?
Enlightenment and gentle correction welcome.
Jamie LaRue
jla...@jlarue.com
--
James LaRue * jla...@jlarue.com * http://www.dpld.org
Voice: (720) 733-8624 * FAX: (720) 733-9622 fax
----
"I have opinions of my own--strong opinions--but I don't always agree
with them."
George Bush (pere), US President
Cathy Stevenson
<jla...@jlarue.com> wrote:
> I've got a G3 laptop, and have two questions about OS X, which I bought
> and installed a year ago. Reviewing my options a year later, I've
> decided that the purchase was foolish.
>
> First -- the G3 has no direct USB support. That means that I can't use
> my printer (connected via a serial port) whether in OS X or running
> Classic, and I can't sync my Palm Pilot. I did buy a USB card for the
> Mac, but it didn't work for the Palm Pilot, and Palm doesn't support it.
> Back went the USB card!
>
> Sooo...the only way out of this seems to be to buy a new Mac, yes? (Or
> possibly, buy a new printer that works with the USB card -- which is
> still two new purchases.) While this would be good for the economy, it
> does seem decidely user-hostile.
>
> Second, unless I've really missed something here (all too likely, alas)
> there is no reason to have OS X on my system. Is there a simple
> de-install process? Is there more to it than deleting the Applications,
> and System folders?
>
> Enlightenment and gentle correction welcome.
Your post is ambiguous - does the printer not work with the USB card?
In one paragraph, you note that the Palm didn't work, sort of implying
that the printer did; in the next it seems that the printer also didn't
work with the card.
Which version of OS 10 are you using?
There is a Palm software for OS 10 (beta) available.
Here is an article with instructions on how to uninstall OS 10:
http://homepage.mac.com/macgurutemple/macosx_tips_and_tricks.html
Note that the uninstall directions are at the very end of the article.
If you don't plan to reinstall OS 10, you can just trash the obvious OS
10 files. But, if you want to reinstall OS 10 at some point, you will
have to trash some other files in the OS 9 SYystem Folder. You will
also need something like ResEdit or FileBuddy to make the files visible
before you trash them.
Cathy
--
"To your dog, you are a friend; to your cat, you are staff."
C.Stevenson, M.D.
cats...@bayarea.net
Jamie LaRue
port, so I didn't try it with the USB card. I am using the first
commercial OS X version 10.0. Am I incorrect in assuming that later
version DO support serial connections?
--
James LaRue * jla...@jlarue.com * http://www.dpld.org
Voice: (720) 733-8624 * FAX: (720) 733-9622 fax
----
"Get the facts first, you can distort them later." - Mark Twain
Cathy Stevenson
<jla...@jlarue.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Cathy. Sorry to be unclear. My printer is based on a serial
> port, so I didn't try it with the USB card. I am using the first
> commercial OS X version 10.0. Am I incorrect in assuming that later
> version DO support serial connections?
Actually, you were very clear - I was not reading careefully.
I don't think the problem is that early OS 10 didn't support serial
connections - it just didn't have many printer drivers.
There were almost no printer drivers in OS 10.0. You can tell whether
the driver for your printer is installed by looking in the Library
folder (the one on your HD, not the one in your Home directory), then
in the Printer folder. If the driver is in that folder, then you
should be able to select your printer in the OS 10 Print Center. Lots
of drivers were added to the OS 10 update CD - either 10.0.4 or 10.1
added the most, I can't recall which. You can also try the web site
for the printer to see if the drivers are available for download.
Cathy
--
"there's a dance or two in the old dame yet." - mehitabel
C.Stevenson, M.D.
cats...@bayarea.net