portable solar power backup
book...@yahoo.com
to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
CanopyCo
90 watt panel and a 1800 watt inverter / power pack.
It’ll take quite a while to recharge that 1800 watts back into the
power pack once you discharge it when you can only put in 90 watts max
at a time.
Karsten Kruse
>> I'm not that familiar with hooking up solar power systems good enough
>> to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
>> a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
>> it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
>> Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
>> http://www.mysolarbackup.com/
> 90 watt panel and a 1800 watt inverter / power pack.
> It�ll take quite a while to recharge that 1800 watts back into the
> power pack once you discharge it when you can only put in 90 watts max
> at a time.
True. You can get the same without the black case for about 500 euros
here (panel, battery, inverter, charger).
Karsten
--
() My homepage is http://www.tecneeq.de/ and your homepage sucks�!
<\/>
_/\_ �) Unless it has animated gifs from 1996, then it rocks!
Hisler
Amazon (www.amazon.com) has the same units cheaper. Something you can
do is make an extension cord with two male plugs, turn off your circuit
breaker box to the outside grid, and plug the generator into a socket in
your house to put power directly into your home wiring. You can use the
circuit breakers to isolate power to certain sections of your home.
I suggest you read the comments on Amazon from people who have purchased
solar panels and inverters. They can be quite informative.
book...@yahoo.com
I got interested in 12 v. systems that could run off a generator,
maybe powered by water-wind, using some of the 12 volt appliances you
find on travel trailers. Even that way has its limitations, at least
in storage batteries. competition evidently is the very efficient
Honda gas generators that are quiet and deliver 120 v., as long as you
have gas. If I lived in the South or Australia, I would get serious
about solar. bookburn
Hisler
12 volt DC systems are much more efficient than up converting 12 volts
DC to 112 volts, AC. There is a significant loss of energy with
inverters. I live at the 40th parallel (north) and find the sunlight
sufficient to run photo voltaic cells most of the year.
Karsten Kruse
> 12 volt DC systems are much more efficient than up converting 12 volts
> DC to 112 volts, AC. There is a significant loss of energy with
> inverters.
True, but the compatibility with existing hardware (for example a
microwave) is better with an inverter. The loss is lower if you get
yourself a better inverter.
There are inverters on the market with 98.5% efficiency. I know of
inverters sold in germany that offer 95% or better resistive load
efficiency for quite fair prices.
If you just want to power up a 20 Watt radio you might consider using 2
inverters, one that is efficient for small loads and one for high loads
(like a 3kW garden grill).
Anyways, i personally wouldn't go to 12V systems because my existing
stuff is 230V.
Karsten
--
() My homepage is http://www.tecneeq.de/ and your homepage sucks�!
<\/>
_/\_ �) Unless it has animated gifs from 1996, then it rocks!
Rich Johnson
First, you may not have completed the disconnect. So when you power up
your house you may be energizing a line that the Power Company Lineman
is working on. Kill him, and when they trace it to you, it is
manslaughter. (NEC prohibits the dual male plug.)
Second, you are limiting the power supplied to the house by the circuit
breaker value on the plug you just energized. (Except that which is on
that circuit.
Do it right. Get a cut over. Have a permit made and do it according to NEC.
Hisler
> Hisler schrieb:
>
>> 12 volt DC systems are much more efficient than up converting 12 volts
>> DC to 112 volts, AC. There is a significant loss of energy with
>> inverters.
>
> True, but the compatibility with existing hardware (for example a
> microwave) is better with an inverter. The loss is lower if you get
> yourself a better inverter.
>
> There are inverters on the market with 98.5% efficiency. I know of
> inverters sold in germany that offer 95% or better resistive load
> efficiency for quite fair prices.
>
> If you just want to power up a 20 Watt radio you might consider using 2
> inverters, one that is efficient for small loads and one for high loads
> (like a 3kW garden grill).
>
> Anyways, i personally wouldn't go to 12V systems because my existing
> stuff is 230V.
>
> Karsten
>
I have two cabins in very remote areas of Colorado which are far away
from power lines, gas lines, and phone service. I use deep cycle marine
batteries, solar panels, and wind generators to charge the batteries.
We are able to run most appliances, radios, and water pumps with
inverters bought from Amazon.
Hisler
> On 12/29/2009 9:44 PM, Hisler wrote:
>> book...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> I'm not that familiar with hooking up solar power systems good enough
>>> to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
>>> a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
>>> it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
>>>
>>> Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
>>> http://www.mysolarbackup.com/
>>
>> Amazon (www.amazon.com) has the same units cheaper. Something you can do
>> is make an extension cord with two male plugs, turn off your circuit
>> breaker box to the outside grid, and plug the generator into a socket in
>> your house to put power directly into your home wiring. You can use the
>> circuit breakers to isolate power to certain sections of your home.
>>
>> I suggest you read the comments on Amazon from people who have purchased
>> solar panels and inverters. They can be quite informative.
> Holy moly...No, bad idea!!!
>
> First, you may not have completed the disconnect. So when you power up
> your house you may be energizing a line that the Power Company Lineman
> is working on. Kill him, and when they trace it to you, it is
> manslaughter. (NEC prohibits the dual male plug.)
Don't be silly. We're talking about someone in survival mode in an
emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
Gunner Asch
>> First, you may not have completed the disconnect. So when you power up
>> your house you may be energizing a line that the Power Company Lineman
>> is working on. Kill him, and when they trace it to you, it is
>> manslaughter. (NEC prohibits the dual male plug.)
>
>Don't be silly. We're talking about someone in survival mode in an
>emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
>looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
So you think you can kill a lineman and get away with it.
Fascinating.....
Gunner
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766
Karsten Kruse
> I have two cabins in very remote areas of Colorado which are far away
> from power lines, gas lines, and phone service. I use deep cycle marine
> batteries, solar panels, and wind generators to charge the batteries. We
> are able to run most appliances, radios, and water pumps with inverters
> bought from Amazon.
Wind? A big setup or a small one? Tell us about it. Is it tied to the
normal high voltage grid?
Karsten Kruse
>>> First, you may not have completed the disconnect. So when you power up
>>> your house you may be energizing a line that the Power Company Lineman
>>> is working on. Kill him, and when they trace it to you, it is
>>> manslaughter. (NEC prohibits the dual male plug.)
>> Don't be silly. We're talking about someone in survival mode in an
>> emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
>> looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
> So you think you can kill a lineman and get away with it.
> Fascinating.....
He has a point, in love and survival everything is allowed. If you need
to kill a lineman to survive ... do it. Remember, there is only one you
on this planet, but thousands of linemen.
Hisler
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:18:28 -0700, Hisler <His...@cocks.net> wrote:
>
>>> First, you may not have completed the disconnect. So when you power up
>>> your house you may be energizing a line that the Power Company Lineman
>>> is working on. Kill him, and when they trace it to you, it is
>>> manslaughter. (NEC prohibits the dual male plug.)
>> Don't be silly. We're talking about someone in survival mode in an
>> emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
>> looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
>
>
> So you think you can kill a lineman and get away with it.
>
> Fascinating.....
Don't type words I never wrote and attribute them to me. I clearly
stated in my first post on the subject that I would disconnect the
house wiring from the power grid before using generators to power my own
home using the internal wiring in the house. Any trained and authorized
lineman uses an insulated bucket to stand in and wears the proper gloves
and clothing to minimize the risk of being electrocuted. The lineman
always assumes that power can be restored at any time just as a person
handling a gun always assumes it could be loaded.
Hisler
> Hisler schrieb:
>
>> I have two cabins in very remote areas of Colorado which are far away
>> from power lines, gas lines, and phone service. I use deep cycle
>> marine batteries, solar panels, and wind generators to charge the
>> batteries. We are able to run most appliances, radios, and water pumps
>> with inverters bought from Amazon.
>
> Wind? A big setup or a small one? Tell us about it. Is it tied to the
> normal high voltage grid?
>
> Karsten
>
Our cabins are both many, many miles from any power lines. The wind
generators were bought second hand and date back to the days of the old
Whole Earth Catalog days ('70s or early '80s). They have quad 8 foot
blades or rotors driving DC generators that output 12 volts (regulated)
in winds above 10 mph. I don't know the exact specs with regard to
watts or ampere hours.
book...@yahoo.com
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:18:28 -0700, Hisler <His...@cocks.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> First, you may not have completed the disconnect. So when you power up
>>>> your house you may be energizing a line that the Power Company Lineman
>>>> is working on. Kill him, and when they trace it to you, it is
>>>> manslaughter. (NEC prohibits the dual male plug.)
>>> Don't be silly. We're talking about someone in survival mode in an
>>> emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
>>> looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
>>
>>
>> So you think you can kill a lineman and get away with it.
>>
>> Fascinating.....
>
>Don't type words I never wrote and attribute them to me. I clearly
>stated in my first post on the subject that I would disconnect the
>house wiring from the power grid before using generators to power my own
>home using the internal wiring in the house. Any trained and authorized
>lineman uses an insulated bucket to stand in and wears the proper gloves
>and clothing to minimize the risk of being electrocuted. The lineman
>always assumes that power can be restored at any time just as a person
>handling a gun always assumes it could be loaded.
I'm sure the analogy of piped water to piped electricity applies in
the above system. If you put an input pipe into a system, I guess the
pressure behind the flow determines its direction. It's at this point
that I get mixed up in terms of volts, amps, etc.. But the concept of
making input to your electrical system is interesting. Must be that
wiring for 12 and 120 volt is going to be different size, though, and
you don't want to play around with that. Not sure what happens to a
generator pulsing out electricity into a closed system, unless it
heats up the wiring.
Gunner Asch
>>> Don't be silly. We're talking about someone in survival mode in an
>>> emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
>>> looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
>>
>>
>> So you think you can kill a lineman and get away with it.
>>
>> Fascinating.....
>
>Don't type words I never wrote and attribute them to me. I clearly
>stated in my first post on the subject that I would disconnect the
>house wiring from the power grid before using generators to power my own
>home using the internal wiring in the house. Any trained and authorized
>lineman uses an insulated bucket to stand in and wears the proper gloves
>and clothing to minimize the risk of being electrocuted. The lineman
>always assumes that power can be restored at any time just as a person
>handling a gun always assumes it could be loaded.
Not true.
And thats what you implied btw..that you would fire up an improperly
attached genny to a line and you implied that it wouldnt kill anyone.
Sorry buckwheat...its happened before, by people with your same mindset.
Hisler
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:29:41 -0700, Hisler <His...@cocks.net> wrote:
>
>>>> Don't be silly. We're talking about someone in survival mode in an
>>>> emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
>>>> looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
>>>
>>> So you think you can kill a lineman and get away with it.
>>>
>>> Fascinating.....
>> Don't type words I never wrote and attribute them to me. I clearly
>> stated in my first post on the subject that I would disconnect the
>> house wiring from the power grid before using generators to power my own
>> home using the internal wiring in the house. Any trained and authorized
>> lineman uses an insulated bucket to stand in and wears the proper gloves
>> and clothing to minimize the risk of being electrocuted. The lineman
>> always assumes that power can be restored at any time just as a person
>> handling a gun always assumes it could be loaded.
>
>
> Not true.
>
> And thats what you implied btw..that you would fire up an improperly
> attached genny to a line and you implied that it wouldnt kill anyone.
I never implied that. You inferred it and then projected your own
thoughts into the discussion.
>
> Sorry buckwheat...its happened before, by people with your same mindset.
Just because something happened before doesn't mean shit. You act like
it's some esoteric secret knowledge on how to cut off power to a house
from the outside lines. Power companies do it whenever someone fails to
pay their electric bill. It isn't rocket science. Fire departments kill
the power to a house when there's a fire or a gas leak in a house. They
can tell a caller how to do it over the phone.
Gunner Asch
so you are now claiming you pulled the meter? Why didnt you say that
from the gitgo?
Gunner
Hisler
<Plonk>
Gunner Asch
So you didnt pull the meter...and you fired up and endangered a
lineman?
You should be beaten to the edge of death by those you almost killed.
Gunner
Stormin Mormon
to illustrate how absurd and provocative Gunner is being.
Moments like this, I've lost a lot of repsect for Gunner.
Twisted misquotes are so, so immature.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Hisler" <His...@cocks.net> wrote in message
news:hhh5r5$tfj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Hisler
> Very artfully, and gently done. Using gun safety terminology
> to illustrate how absurd and provocative Gunner is being.
> Moments like this, I've lost a lot of repsect for Gunner.
> Twisted misquotes are so, so immature.
>
Thank you, sir, for your words of support.
Gunner Asch
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Very artfully, and gently done. Using gun safety terminology
>to illustrate how absurd and provocative Gunner is being.
>Moments like this, I've lost a lot of repsect for Gunner.
>Twisted misquotes are so, so immature.
You have never seen a friend take a hit from a guy who was backfeeding
his house from a geney, have you?
Jim Pendleton was a good friend of mine, and he was 42 yrs old when
Brian Markinham killed him by doing stupid shit with a
generator..improperly.
He left a wife and 3 children who miss him very very much. PG&E
insurance allows them a fairly comfortable life..but my hunting buddy
Jim..is still very much dead.
I saw him as they were preparing him at the undertakers. Not pretty.
Mr. Markinham had used a rather large generator..45 KW..so Jim took
about 250 amps at 220 volts for about 5 minutes before his crew could
get the bucket down..then knock him loose from the wires where he had
burned to them.
Was there any further stupid commentary you wish to spew?
Richard Johnson
"Deucalion" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:4t0qj5pkd8172ntqj...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:58:26 -0800, Gunner Asch
> <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:08:58 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
>><cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Very artfully, and gently done. Using gun safety terminology
>>>to illustrate how absurd and provocative Gunner is being.
>>>Moments like this, I've lost a lot of repsect for Gunner.
>>>Twisted misquotes are so, so immature.
>>
>>
>>You have never seen a friend take a hit from a guy who was backfeeding
>>his house from a geney, have you?
>>
>>Jim Pendleton was a good friend of mine, and he was 42 yrs old when
>>Brian Markinham killed him by doing stupid shit with a
>>generator..improperly.
>>
>>He left a wife and 3 children who miss him very very much. PG&E
>>insurance allows them a fairly comfortable life..but my hunting buddy
>>Jim..is still very much dead.
>>
>>I saw him as they were preparing him at the undertakers. Not pretty.
>>Mr. Markinham had used a rather large generator..45 KW..so Jim took
>>about 250 amps at 220 volts for about 5 minutes before his crew could
>>get the bucket down..then knock him loose from the wires where he had
>>burned to them.
>>
>>Was there any further stupid commentary you wish to spew?
>
> population from lamp posts while playing the banjo.
>
> It's a nice story, but it's a lie. How do I know it's a lie? You
> wrote it. Nine more hours and I'll never directly see another of your
> lies. It's like Christmas on New Years.
My comment was made with the suggested way was to "turn off the breaker",
not do a full "meter pull". The vast majority of folks have no idea of how
electricity works, or even which breaker is the main. Double plug line
cords are a very dangerous item. That 60 Hz, 120 vac can travel back up the
secondary, to the transformer where it gets boosted up to primary level
voltages. The current delivered would be limited by the (typical) 15 amp
circuit breaker, but even .1 amp can kill if it crosses the heart. By the
circuit breaker would likely pop just after you plugged it in as you would
be feeding your power to the entire neighborhood/community. Unfortunately,
circuit breakers are designed to protect the wiring, not people that may be
touching the wire when you plug the generator in.
I fail to see what the problem would be to (OMG) PLAN, and have the proper
cutout installed. Other options would be to use standard extension cords to
power critical devices from the generator.
But, that is my humble opinion. Again if you do this and kill someone,
eventually the authorities and the Utility companies will be back and you
will be in court. If I am on your jury, you will be convicted with a
recommendation that you be put away for a very long time. When your parole
comes up, expect me there to argue against allowing you out.
Rich
Iconoclast
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:08:58 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
>
> >Very artfully, and gently done. Using gun safety terminology
> >to illustrate how absurd and provocative Gunner is being.
> >Moments like this, I've lost a lot of repsect for Gunner.
> >Twisted misquotes are so, so immature.
>
> You have never seen a friend take a hit from a guy who was backfeeding
> his house from a geney, have you?
I had a friend who was in Kiev when the Chernobyl nuclear reactor
released massive amounts of radiation. That doesn't mean all people
who work at nuclear power plants are buffoons or that every electrical
power plant is a Chernobyl waiting to happen. Just because a
photographer was killed when Mount St. Helens exploded, it doesn't
mean all photographers who photograph volcanoes are fools who are
going to die in a blast of volcanic ash. Do you really believe this
crap you are writing?
Iconoclast
> On Dec 29, 9:20 am, bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > I'm not that familiar with hooking up solar power systems good enough
> > to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
> > a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
> > it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
>
> > Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
>
> >http://www.mysolarbackup.com/
>
>
> It’ll take quite a while to recharge that 1800 watts back into the
> power pack once you discharge it when you can only put in 90 watts max
> at a time.
You don't wait 'till it's discharged to use the solar panels to charge
it. You can use the panels to charge the batteries at the same time
you're using the inverter to run stuff, assuming it is daylight.
Hisler
Gunner just assumed that a proper cutout wasn't installed and went on
his rant accordingly.
Other options would be to use standard extension cords to
> power critical devices from the generator.
>
> But, that is my humble opinion. Again if you do this and kill someone,
> eventually the authorities and the Utility companies will be back and you
> will be in court.
Gunner assumed that there would be a lineman nearby. Linemen only show
up if you have downed trees which brought down wires, or an ice storm or
a plane crash which brought down power lines feeding your house or
warehouse or office building. The linemen always assume that wire might
be hot, perhaps even from a lightning strike, especially with power
grids which are interconnected with other power plants hundreds of miles
away.
I had a gas leak in my house a couple of years ago and the first thing
the Excel Energy company workmen did was pull a lever out near the meter
box which disconnected power to the house at the same time they shut off
the gas to the house. The lever that disconnected outside power to the
house works in the opposite direction as well, isolating any power that
might be connected to the house wiring to the outside power lines as
well. This is just common sense and common knowledge.
If I am on your jury, you will be convicted with a
> recommendation that you be put away for a very long time. When your parole
> comes up, expect me there to argue against allowing you out.
Is this sort of a pre-crime scenario, whereby a person is guilty of a
crime just because you can imagine it happening in your head? Never
mind that no such an event has happened.
>
> Rich
>
>
Gunner Asch
>
>Gunner just assumed that a proper cutout wasn't installed and went on
>his rant accordingly.
So point out in your post, fuzznuts..where you mentioned installing a
"proper cutout"
Double dog dare you, you fucking spaz.
Stormin Mormon
but they don't fall down. I see that Gummer is responding
with stronger and stronger absurdity.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Richard Johnson" <ri...@bounce.this.com> wrote in message
news:hhj4c...@news4.newsguy.com...
Stormin Mormon
we're all canabalistic priests who go to orphanages and take
organs out of little boys and leave the boys still alive,
and soaking in bath tubs of ice. With a note, taped on, that
his kidneys have been shipped to Indonesia. So that we can
take the body parts, wire them into a galvanic reactor,
using dissimilar metals. And go electrocute baby kittens and
then burn the kittens on a funeral pyre, while dancing naked
around a circle, wearing black hats and chanting to Satan.
In my case, it's all true. Well, except that I make the
galvanic reactor to kill puppies, not kittens. The rest is
pretty close. I return you to your regularly scheduled
discussions.
Monday morning, 6:30 AM, the barf bug. Hardly eaten since
then. You'd never know, right? Last serious food was Sunday
night. My brain is not healthy.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Iconoclast" <gold...@nym.hush.com> wrote in message
news:a5eff985-bcd9-4f82...@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
1) I'll unfilter Gummer.
2) We'll all act like we give a damn and try to get him
wound up again
3) we'll all die laughing
4) the next one might be the big one. What was that, Sanford
use to say? "I'm comign, ethel!"
Hey, Gummer! I'm standing with the door to the refrigerator
wide open! and, I left the lid off the jelly, again.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Hisler" <His...@cocks.net>
wrote in message
news:hhjdri$9fp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Jim Wilkins
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Give it up. Gummer is going to crank up the absurdity ...
>
> Monday morning, 6:30 AM, the barf bug. Hardly eaten since
> then. You'd never know, right? Last serious food was Sunday
> night. My brain is not healthy.
Oh. Until the last line I thought you'd been watching "Fringe", too.
Walter is my role model. (and not too far from my resume.)
Stormin Mormon
Once in a while, something is well done, and I write to say
so.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Hisler" <His...@cocks.net> wrote in message
news:hhinpg$ulg$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Gunner Asch
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>ive it up. Gummer is going to crank up the absurdity until
>we're all canabalistic priests who go to orphanages and take
>organs out of little boys and leave the boys still alive,
you are not?
Cites?
Chuckle
Hisler
> Hisler <His...@cocks.net> wrote:
>> Rich Johnson wrote:
>>> On 12/29/2009 9:44 PM, Hisler wrote:
>
>>>> Amazon (www.amazon.com) has the same units cheaper. Something you can do
>>>> is make an extension cord with two male plugs, turn off your circuit
>>>> breaker box to the outside grid, and plug the generator into a socket in
>>>> your house to put power directly into your home wiring. You can use the
>>>> circuit breakers to isolate power to certain sections of your home.
>
>>> Holy moly...No, bad idea!!!
>>>
>>> First, you may not have completed the disconnect. So when you power up
>>> your house you may be energizing a line that the Power Company Lineman
>>> is working on. Kill him, and when they trace it to you, it is
>>> manslaughter. (NEC prohibits the dual male plug.)
>> emergency, not everyday solutions. I doubt that the government is out
>> looking for dual male plugs during states of emergency.
>
> power, consider that you will be attempting to power the entire
> neighborhood.
>
> In most practical situations, the inverter/battery can only supply one
> or two loads at a time. Just plug the things you are using into the
> inverter socket and leave the house wiring out of the situation.
Point taken.
Hisler
> book...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I'm not that familiar with hooking up solar power systems good enough
>> to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
>> a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
>> it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
>>
>> Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
>> http://www.mysolarbackup.com/
>
> advertised on the output side, not the generation or storage.
>
> The battery is 51 amp-hours * 12 V = 600 Whrs. You have to make that
> last for a 24 hour period. A single 60 Watt bulb for 10 hours. The
> 1800 Watt inverter - if fully loaded - will drain that in less than 20
> minutes. And is that 1800 W continuous, or only starting surge
> rating?
>
> In real life you can only drain batteries to 50 or 60% charge left
> without killing them, so you get ten minutes of full power operation.
> A single 60 Watt bulb for 5 hours.
>
> Of course the 90 Watt panel * 6 hours typical useful sunlight means
> you can only replace 540 Whrs per day. That will pretty well match
> the battery - BUT NOT THE USAGE. And real charge restrictions mean
> you will get 50 to 70% of that actually in the battery. Long term you
> will be lucky to get 400 Whrs/day. That will do for small loads but
> don't get any delusions of grandeur here.
>
> The page is so full of hype, I'd be put off by it.
>
> * Power Source 1800 will supply up to twelve hours of uninterrupted
> backup power for a small office, and up to eight hours of runtime for
> essential home appliances and small electronics during a power outage.
>
> "up to" are marvelous words. With 300 Whrs of available battery
> capacity, that 12 hour office better only draw 25 Watts. Silly beyond
> thought.
>
> *Amazing "Solar Generator" Is Like Having A Secret Power Plant
> Hidden In Your Home!
>
> I always avoid vendors that use "is like", "secret" and other over the
> top phrases.. And why does it need to be hidden? Don't you have to
> put the panel out in the sun?
>
> * 8) Life-Saving Power When you need it most - Great for powering ...
> alarm clocks
>
> What? If you get to work late, the boss will kill you? By a wind up.
>
> * Multiple uses - You can use your solar backup to run essential
> appliances when emergencies arise. You can recharge phones; run
> shortwave radios...
>
> Far easier and cheaper to use batteries. Once you recharge your
> phone, is the cell tower up?
>
> * First break though in 50 years.
>
> Bull again, there is nothing new about this set up.
>
> At this level of hype, I'd even be suspicious of the specs they give.
>
> Guessing by the picture of the cabin, I suspect this is Lemar aka
> solar man. He's often offered to sell us stuff that's freely
> available on the web. If it's the same guy, I suspect more hype than
> fact. Just MHO.
>
> Get a panel at Harbor Freight if you can't find better.
> http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=solar+panel
> Watch for almost half off sales.
>
> Get one or two 100 Ahr deep cycle batteries at Costco or Sam's Club.
>
> Get a decent sized inverter, again HF if that's all you can find.
> http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=inverter
> Watch for almost half off sales.
>
> Lots of places to buy this stuff on the web. Shop, shop, shop.
Excellent and very informative post. Thank you.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
A very good post.
One should also simply check into simply gasoline or better yet..diesel
powered generators. In most cases..solar/wind are for worst case, long
term power failures. Or for living off the grid..in which case..no
small set of batteries and photocells is going to be appropriate.
And the fuel powered gensets can charge batteries quite nicely, at low
rpm and at low fuel consumption.
The best of course..is living near a fairly fast stream or creek and
powering everything from a genset coupled to a water wheel..but...not
all of us live in places that have water of that sort.
Gunner, California high desert
Gunner Asch
>> The battery is 51 amp-hours *
51 amp hour Deep cycle batteries cost about $75-$150 (for the best) at
the autoparts store.
Just a heads up
You may also wish to read this.....
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
http://www.rvpowersupply.com/interstate_batteries.htm
The fellow is pumping a lot..a lot of hype on his website.
Gunner
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>book...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I'm not that familiar with hooking up solar power systems good enough
>>to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
>>a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
>>it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
>>
>>Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
>>http://www.mysolarbackup.com/
>
>Yes. Too good. Thirty seven kinds of hype IMHO. First it's
>advertised on the output side, not the generation or storage.
OK so far.
>The battery is 51 amp-hours * 12 V = 600 Whrs. You have to make that
>last for a 24 hour period. A single 60 Watt bulb for 10 hours. The
>1800 Watt inverter - if fully loaded - will drain that in less than 20
>minutes.
No. Google "peukert exponent", or read here
http://www.amplepower.com/pwrnews/beer/ for a very oversimplified
explanation. Offhand I'd guess that the example inverter fully-loaded
might run for a few minutes before reaching low-voltage cutoff.
> And is that 1800 W continuous, or only starting surge
>rating?
>
>In real life you can only drain batteries to 50 or 60% charge left
>without killing them, so you get ten minutes of full power operation.
>A single 60 Watt bulb for 5 hours.
>
>Of course the 90 Watt panel * 6 hours typical useful sunlight means
>you can only replace 540 Whrs per day.
No. PV is rated at optimum voltage, but tied to a battery it operates
at a lower voltage. Unless using an MPPT controller and/or a tracker,
figure a rule of thumb of 75% of rated watts, at more like 4-5 hours
average over a year. Better yet, never make these types of
calculations without knowing the location.
Your post is mostly on the right track. I'm not going to bother to
correct the rest of it except to say that readers who are interested
in doing this stuff should seek better advice.
Wayne
CanopyCo
>
> - Show quoted text -
The problem that I see is that I would likely use the juice faster
then it was replenished.
A refrigerator or any kind of electric heater or blower would over run
that unit in no time.
If all you do with it is run florescent or LED lights and a TV then it
would likely keep up ok.
CanopyCo
> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 29, 9:20 am, bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> I'm not that familiar with hooking up solar power systems good enough
> >> to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
> >> a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
> >> it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
>
> >> Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
>
> >>http://www.mysolarbackup.com/
>
> time and in some ways big systems are actually getting cheaper.
>
> Make sure the battery can hold the Watt-hours the panel puts out in a
> full day of charging or a lot of your panel capacity will be wasted.
> Ideally, you would want the battery sized for several days of panel
> output to allow for cloudy days and periods of unusually high usage.
>
> Even if the battery is high enough capacity, this seems more than
> double what I'd want to pay. Of course it's a little system as solar
> installations go so you probably won't get down to the $7 mark.
>
> >90 watt panel and a 1800 watt inverter / power pack.
>
> >It ll take quite a while to recharge that 1800 watts back into the
> >power pack once you discharge it when you can only put in 90 watts max
> >at a time.
>
> microwave but it's only on for say three minutes. 1800* 3/60 = 90
> Whr. The panel would put that back in an hour. You probably get six
> hours a day of useful charging.
I use my microwave about 3 or 4 times a day.
A electric blanket at night, a refrigerator & the electric hot water
heater daily, and a fan to stir the air.
Those are my big users, other then a shoe box sized heater with fan.
robert bowman
> 51 amp hour Deep cycle batteries cost about $75-$150 (for the best) at
> the autoparts store.
I've used RV 'deep cycle' batteries and they're OK. However, they're only
good for 100 or so real deep cycles, where they're pulled down to a
completely discharged state. The best for a solar system are golf cart or
industrial fork lift batteries. They're usually 6 volt packages, expensive,
hard to find, and heavier than hell but they are designed for the task.
Probably overkill for a backup system where it may be cheaper in the long
run just to replace the RV batteries every few years. Golf cart batteries
don't last forever, either.
Sue
wrote:
>wmbjk...@citlink.net wrote:
>>On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:13:51 -0700, Winston_Smith wrote:
>
>>No. Google "peukert exponent", or read here
>>http://www.amplepower.com/pwrnews/beer/ for a very oversimplified
>>explanation. Offhand I'd guess that the example inverter fully-loaded
>>might run for a few minutes before reaching low-voltage cutoff.
>
>I agree with everything you added. Less than ten minutes certainly
>includes just a few. ;>} And you are right about that.
>
>As I hinted, I suspect it's probably a 1000 W or 1200 W inverter with
>an 1800 W starting surge capacity. Pretty much everything on the page
>was inadequately spec-ed and over hyped. Solar PV has been around for
>decades and all the details are on the web for free if one wants to
>research system design. It's not rocket science these days.
>
>>No. PV is rated at optimum voltage, but tied to a battery it operates
>>at a lower voltage. Unless using an MPPT controller and/or a tracker,
>>figure a rule of thumb of 75% of rated watts, at more like 4-5 hours
>>average over a year. Better yet, never make these types of
>>calculations without knowing the location.
>
>Indeed, a tracking MPPT controller is the only thing to consider given
>the big bucks a panel costs. You need to squeeze out every watt you
>can. There is a nice one some fellow in Australia published on the
>web as free plans and/or a kit of critical parts. Sorry, can't come
>up with the link right now. National Semiconductor has just came out
>with a ready to use line of them.
>
>http://www.national.com/analog/pressroom/power
>http://www.solarmagic.com/
>
>Their approach is to optimize per panel instead of trying to do the
>whole system as one big thing. Each controller is good for 100 W or
>so. That lets you add-on modular fashion and lets you mix different
>panel models as you find them. It's voltage rated to allow a couple
>identical units in series to minimize wiring resistance losses.
>>
>>Your post is mostly on the right track. I'm not going to bother to
>>correct the rest of it except to say that readers who are interested
>>in doing this stuff should seek better advice.
>
>I was only trying to hit the high lights. I gave the vendor the
>benefit of taking theoretically perfect in most cases. It's not
>nearly that good, but if it were, it would still be a shaky product.
>
>I never meant to write a full paper on the topic. I probably could,
>but that's a big project for a small audience. Few would care to
>follow all the technical details to an understanding. It's just too
>expensive for the average guy to see it as a do it yourself project
>just yet.
>
>I do have a 100 W panel. I inherited a 105 Ahr battery that was used
>for a few days during power upgrade to a building. But one of the
>cells has shorted after four or five years. Gotta visit Costco
>sometime soon. I have a couple inverters from small to large. Each
>has it's maximum efficiency point so the best choice depends on the
>particular load. What I didn't inherit, I bought when I found deals.
>
>I plan to put this in a small trailer. I figure with frugal use I can
>run my computer enough hours a day to be useful, listen to some music
>or short wave, maybe even watch a movie. Not all in the same day of
>course. All the computer parts have been chosen with a careful eye to
>minimize how much power they draw.
>
>For now, it's available for home use if the power company ever went
>down for more than a few hours.
Wayne actually made a post that isn't Gunnercentric. I'm amazed!
Sue
Gunner Asch
wrote:
If you check with the forklift repair shops..you can occasionally find
battery stacks that are not worth the tear down and cell replacement
that will come up. And you can buy them by the ton, rather cheaply.
So what if your 48 Volt stack can only make 36 volts...? You simply
wire them to be 12vt parallel and have a shitload of amps available.
Takes a while to charge em though, with a small charger.
Gunner Asch
He is probably sober today, for a change.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>wmbjk...@citlink.net wrote:
>>On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:13:51 -0700, Winston_Smith wrote:
>
>>No. Google "peukert exponent", or read here
>>http://www.amplepower.com/pwrnews/beer/ for a very oversimplified
>>explanation. Offhand I'd guess that the example inverter fully-loaded
>>might run for a few minutes before reaching low-voltage cutoff.
>
>I agree with everything you added. Less than ten minutes certainly
>includes just a few. ;>} And you are right about that.
>
>As I hinted, I suspect it's probably a 1000 W or 1200 W inverter with
>an 1800 W starting surge capacity. Pretty much everything on the page
>was inadequately spec-ed and over hyped. Solar PV has been around for
>decades and all the details are on the web for free if one wants to
>research system design. It's not rocket science these days.
>
>>No. PV is rated at optimum voltage, but tied to a battery it operates
>>at a lower voltage. Unless using an MPPT controller and/or a tracker,
>>figure a rule of thumb of 75% of rated watts, at more like 4-5 hours
>>average over a year. Better yet, never make these types of
>>calculations without knowing the location.
>
>Indeed, a tracking MPPT controller is the only thing to consider given
>the big bucks a panel costs. You need to squeeze out every watt you
>can. There is a nice one some fellow in Australia published on the
>web as free plans and/or a kit of critical parts. Sorry, can't come
>up with the link right now. National Semiconductor has just came out
>with a ready to use line of them.
>
>http://www.national.com/analog/pressroom/power
>http://www.solarmagic.com/
>
>Their approach is to optimize per panel instead of trying to do the
>whole system as one big thing. Each controller is good for 100 W or
>so. That lets you add-on modular fashion and lets you mix different
>panel models as you find them. It's voltage rated to allow a couple
>identical units in series to minimize wiring resistance losses.
>>
>>Your post is mostly on the right track. I'm not going to bother to
>>correct the rest of it except to say that readers who are interested
>>in doing this stuff should seek better advice.
>
wmbjk...@citlink.net
>On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:44:03 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_...@bogus.net>
>wrote:
>
>>wmbjk...@citlink.net wrote:
>>>On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:13:51 -0700, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>
>>>No. Google "peukert exponent", or read here
>>>http://www.amplepower.com/pwrnews/beer/ for a very oversimplified
>>>explanation. Offhand I'd guess that the example inverter fully-loaded
>>>might run for a few minutes before reaching low-voltage cutoff.
>>
>>I agree with everything you added. Less than ten minutes certainly
>>includes just a few. ;>} And you are right about that.
Something else I'm right about: you wrote *20* minutes, not 10, and
accidentally <snorf> snipped out the quote. Therefore, I don't believe
you'd ever heard of Peukert before now.
>>As I hinted, I suspect it's probably a 1000 W or 1200 W inverter with
>>an 1800 W starting surge capacity. Pretty much everything on the page
>>was inadequately spec-ed and over hyped. Solar PV has been around for
>>decades and all the details are on the web for free if one wants to
>>research system design. It's not rocket science these days.
True, which is why I'm surprised to still see people giving misleading
advice.
>>>No. PV is rated at optimum voltage, but tied to a battery it operates
>>>at a lower voltage. Unless using an MPPT controller and/or a tracker,
>>>figure a rule of thumb of 75% of rated watts, at more like 4-5 hours
>>>average over a year. Better yet, never make these types of
>>>calculations without knowing the location.
>>
>>Indeed, a tracking MPPT controller
No. There are trackers, and there's Maximum Power Point Tracking.
People who know the difference don't mix up the two.
>> is the only thing to consider
No. Small setups rarely use MPPT controllers because it's cheaper to
buy extra PV. MPPT becomes affordable with larger setups and/or longer
array-to-battery distances.
>>given
>>the big bucks a panel costs. You need to squeeze out every watt you
>>can.
No. PV can now be purchased retail for as little as $1 per watt for
thin film. http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=phoenix The low
prices will mean fewer MPPT controllers, and fewer tracking arrays.
>> There is a nice one some fellow in Australia published on the
>>web as free plans and/or a kit of critical parts. Sorry, can't come
>>up with the link right now. National Semiconductor has just came out
>>with a ready to use line of them.
>>
>>http://www.national.com/analog/pressroom/power
>>http://www.solarmagic.com/
>>
>>Their approach is to optimize per panel instead of trying to do the
>>whole system as one big thing. Each controller is good for 100 W or
>>so. That lets you add-on modular fashion and lets you mix different
>>panel models as you find them. It's voltage rated to allow a couple
>>identical units in series to minimize wiring resistance losses.
Been boning up, eh?
>>>Your post is mostly on the right track. I'm not going to bother to
>>>correct the rest of it except to say that readers who are interested
>>>in doing this stuff should seek better advice.
>>
>>I was only trying to hit the high lights. I gave the vendor the
>>benefit of taking theoretically perfect in most cases. It's not
>>nearly that good, but if it were, it would still be a shaky product.
>>
>>I never meant to write a full paper on the topic. I probably could,
Suuuure...
>>but that's a big project for a small audience. Few would care to
>>follow all the technical details to an understanding. It's just too
>>expensive for the average guy to see it as a do it yourself project
>>just yet.
>>
>>I do have a 100 W panel. I inherited a 105 Ahr battery that was used
>>for a few days during power upgrade to a building. But one of the
>>cells has shorted after four or five years. Gotta visit Costco
>>sometime soon. I have a couple inverters from small to large. Each
>>has it's maximum efficiency point so the best choice depends on the
>>particular load. What I didn't inherit, I bought when I found deals.
>>
>>I plan to put this in a small trailer. I figure with frugal use I can
>>run my computer enough hours a day to be useful, listen to some music
>>or short wave, maybe even watch a movie. Not all in the same day of
>>course. All the computer parts have been chosen with a careful eye to
>>minimize how much power they draw.
>>
>>For now, it's available for home use if the power company ever went
>>down for more than a few hours.
>Wayne actually made a post that isn't Gunnercentric. I'm amazed!
Here, let me fix that since you were compelled to bring it up.
I see that gummer is hilariously giving advice again on solar power,
which is somewhat ironic considering that only a couple weeks ago he
was whining about how he was dead broke, and couldn't get ahead
because his electricity was to be imminently cut off. Here's a plain
fact: gummer knows diddly squat about solar or home power, but as
usual feels the need to pretend that he does, because he prefers
posting to earning a living. Smith at least understands the difference
between power and energy, something that won't sink into gummer's
skull if he lives to be 8 million years old. And you know even less
about pretty much everything than either of them, and don't have
anything to say that's within starship range of being worth writing.
Yet here are all 3 of you yakking instead of learning and/or getting
ahead. I bet if I check back in about 3 months when your combined
output is another 10,000 lectures on a wide range of topics, you'll
*still* be at 100W total... and talk talk talk talk talking. Now, take
a look at that link I posted above, and bask in the knowledge that
anybody who spends about $200 on survival solar gear is ahead of all
three of you *combined*.
Wayne
robert bowman
> I plan to put this in a small trailer. I figure with frugal use I can
> run my computer enough hours a day to be useful, listen to some music
> or short wave, maybe even watch a movie. Not all in the same day of
> course. All the computer parts have been chosen with a careful eye to
> minimize how much power they draw.
With the small solar setup I have in AZ, I was able to do most of that with
no problem, with possibly some trade offs around the winter solstice.
However one winter, '96 I think, it was overcast and raining for most of
December and into January. Then it was "Do I want to listen to the radio in
the dark, or read without firing up the kerosene lantern tonight?"
Things are better now with the LCDs. I had a Compaq laptop which was frugal
by design. The draw back was it required 18 volts iirc to charge the
battery pack. Rather than screw around, I used the AC adapter and an
inverter, so that was a double hit on efficiency. I think a better solution
could be found today. I used the inverter for a small Crate guitar amp
also, but that was a luxury reserved for days when the batteries were
charged and the panel was shunting. The radio, the QRP ham radio, small
TV, and VCR were all 12 VDC as was the fluorescent fixtures. I couldn't get
any broadcast TV channels, so that was strictly for movies. Today, a
portable DVD player would be more efficient. It would probably work a lot
better, too. Cold VHS playback heads tend to condense moisture so the tape
doesn't feed. No problem if you leave them on, but I didn't want to waste
milliamps to keep it warm.
It all worked and I didn't feel underprivileged, but going into the project
with a minimalist lifestyle helps a lot.
robert bowman
> Heck it's all in an old mp3 player that fits
> in my pocket. Plugs into a jack and comes out the radio in the car.
> Needs to be small to have much with you in a small trailer.
Yeah, some parts of progress I can happily live with. I'm a dinosaur, so I
actually buy CDs instead of downloading, but I immediately rip them. I can
get enough on a 4 gB USB drive that plugs directly into the radio that I
can do a round trip from Montana to Arizona and back via California and if
there are any repeats it's just because the random shuffle happened to come
up with it.
I was in AZ briefly last spring and didn't even bother setting up the solar
panel. Between the LED headlamp, which is great for reading and wandering
around, the LED flashlight when I need a lot of light, and the Sansa
mp3/radio I was good. An evening stroll of about half a mile got me to a
comfortable bench with a receptacle to charge the netbook and WiFi access.
Lot better than the '90s. There are other advantages, too. I used to have a
cassette player when riding my bicycle in the desert. You don't have to
drop the things in the sand too many times before a trip back to Circuit
City for a replacement was necessary. I think if I managed to break a mp3
player dropping a bike, I'd need a trip to a hospital first.
robert bowman
> I turned it on. The one-reading-peak was 38 Watts during boot up and
> then 22 Watts fully booted and sitting there saying "OK, what now?".
I should check the Asus. The Atom processors aren't geared for serious
number crunching, but they are light on power consumption. I was an early
adopter; small, cheap, and a SSD drive is the perfect thing to toss into a
motorcycle saddle bag. Netbooks made sense to me, where Palms never did.
Hisler
Your civil response is noted. I'll un-plonk you, for what it's not worth.
Happy New Year.
Gunner Asch
Shrug..its your puter. Read my posts or not..it makes no difference to
me. Act like an utter dickhead and Ill call you on it. Act like a normal
human and we will get along fine. Ive been here since hummm 1998 or 99.
Never been kicked off an ISP, never had a warning from one.
So do as you will. Just remember Im out here, reading EVERY post..and if
you act like a buffoon or a leftwing fringe kook..you will get called on
it.
I dont pull any punches. Ask around...chuckle..Ive been here for over 10
yrs.
Hisler
Ditto. I have changed nyms over the years, but I've been a usenet
poster for at least a decade. I first posted as "stvfrmco" back before
Y2K. I recall a poster "Tiny Human Ferret" who even 10 years ago
lamented the decline in quality of the people who posted stuff in usenet
groups. It doesn't take long to figure out who the more intelligent,
articulate, and mentally stable posters are. For years I have
considered your posts to be among those I most agree with, FWIW.
Sum Ting Wong
>> 51 amp hour Deep cycle batteries cost about $75-$150 (for the best) at
>> the autoparts store.
Walmart has a good price on deep cycle batteries and if you're
traveling in an RV you can get warranty replacement on them just about
anywhere you go.
S.T.W.
Hisler
I like "Batteries Plus" because the price they advertise is the real
price. Often, as per Checker Auto, they tack on some recycle fee which
adds significantly to the fake advertised price. Walmart is good for
ammo and sports equipment as well as batteries IMO.
Sum Ting Wong
>
>I like "Batteries Plus" because the price they advertise is the real
>price. Often, as per Checker Auto, they tack on some recycle fee which
>adds significantly to the fake advertised price. Walmart is good for
>ammo and sports equipment as well as batteries IMO.
I was unfamiliar with Batteries Plus. Thanks.
Just did a price check for a HP laptop battery that I recently
purchased from Amazon and the Batteries Plus price was almost 2x what
I paid at Amazon. I'd shop there with my eyes wide open.
S.T.W.
robert bowman
> Often, as per Checker Auto, they tack on some recycle fee which
> adds significantly to the fake advertised price.
The real pisser there is scrap batteries are worth money. I've hauled dead
batteries from all over the west to RSR in City of Industry, CA. RSR also
has a smelter in Dallas, iirc, and in the north east. There was another
recycler in City of Commerce, too. Old tires can be a hassle, but not
batteries.
Karsten Kruse
> Ive been here since hummm 1998 or 99.
> Never been kicked off an ISP, never had a warning from one.
That's the standard test for sanity and sincerity?
> So do as you will. Just remember Im out here, reading EVERY post..and if
> you act like a buffoon or a leftwing fringe kook..you will get called on
> it.
Mate, not even god reads every post, and he is omnipotent. Then again,
they don't call you ,,Gunner the magnificient'' for nothing ;).
> I dont pull any punches. Ask around...chuckle..Ive been here for over 10
> yrs.
Would that statement of yours count as a punch?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.survival/msg/0984c992c5d5047c?hl=en&dmode=source&output=gplain
I have several more, just in case Hisler really should ask around.
Karsten
--
() My homepage is http://www.tecneeq.de/ and your homepage sucksￜ!
<\/>
_/\_ ￜ) Unless it has animated gifs from 1996, then it rocks!
Retief
>I'm not that familiar with hooking up solar power systems good enough
>to work alone while off the main electrical power grid, but ran across
>a site that describes what seems to come close to doing just that. And
>it's portable. Price quoted including US delivery is about $1,700.
>
>Too good to be true? See what I'm talking about at
>
>http://www.mysolarbackup.com/
Doesn't look like a particularly good deal.
Her are some genny's -- looks like 3000 watts will cost you about
$3-400:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_36+280777+770942
It does appear that the "Power Source Solutions 1800" is a simple
generator -- it doesn't look nearly big enough to be a useful size
battery bank. They make a variety of small footprint gennys -- does
this look reasonably familiar?:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200393013_200393013
And solar panels -- $80-100 for 15 Watts:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_770399+6228+784704
So $600 gets you 90 watts...
Something like this is probably a good procedure:
Before you invest, do a survey -- how much power do you need? What
critical things do you want to power? How long do you want to run
them? Do some calculations.
Then you need to think about sizing your battery bank. To provide
that much power for these devices for 1 day (generally folks who do
this actually plan for several days of no charging...so 1 day is
generally too short) -- keep in mind that you can't fully discharge
the cells without destroying them, so you need to oversize by a factor
of 2 or 10... You'll want deep cycle batteries.
Price out the cost of batteries. Be shocked! Faint! Realize you
can't afford that many batteries. Go back to step 1 and revise your
"requirements"... ;)
Once you've trimmed your usage, by a couple of the iterations above,
you can price solar panels. Figure you're going to get 4-6 hours a
day of charging. Note that power ratings for panels is based on full
sun (i.e. noon) -- the rest of the day you're going to get less (so
even if you have a 12-hour day, your stored energy won't scale
linearly). Unfortunately, the time when you need the most power is
late fall and winter -- and November tends to be the worst time of
year for solar...
Price out your panels. Be shocked! Faint! Realize you can't afford
that many solar panels. Go back to step 1 and further revise your
"requirements"... ;)
You can scale these back by having a fuel powered generator, then
perhaps a 1-1.5 day battery bank is sufficient -- you'll just use the
genny more often than otherwise.
If you want to go this latter route, figure out what your absolute
bare minimum requirements are -- furnace fan, low power lights, water
pump, maybe your refrigerator/freezer (assuming you're not just
prepping for short term outages -- in which case you can probably
allow them to "coast" until the power comes back on). Trim all the
power you can. That will make it easier on your pocketbook...
Retief
Retief
<SumTi...@privacy.net> wrote:
>Just did a price check for a HP laptop battery that I recently
>purchased from Amazon and the Batteries Plus price was almost 2x what
>I paid at Amazon. I'd shop there with my eyes wide open.
Keep in mind that for large deep cycle, the shipping cost might kill
you... (something you didn't get pounded with for the laptop battery)
Retief
Retief
wrote:
>Specifically I wrote:
>"In real life you can only drain batteries to 50 or 60% charge left
>without killing them, so you get ten minutes of full power operation.
>A single 60 Watt bulb for 5 hours."
Note also, that this is for deep cycle batteries (50% is a DEEP
cycle...it's better to not go that deep...)
If you're using an auto battery (say, you kludged your setup together
out of available junk), you'll probably want to limit your discharge
to more like 80-90% left.
<snipped Wayne's attempt at a flame war>
Retief
robert bowman
> Keep in mind that for large deep cycle, the shipping cost might kill
> you... (something you didn't get pounded with for the laptop battery)
If the shipping charges for a true deep cycle battery don't kill you, moving
the damn thing around will. A 6V L-16 battery goes about 110 pounds, and
you'll need at least two.