The Future of Surrealism
Kwigd144
response that I recieved from their leader (I am sorry, I forgot his name), I
was told they DISBANDED! Now, proceeding forward on trying to Communicate with
Surrealists alive today around the world, Barrett John Erickson (Blue Feathers)
saved an E-mail that I sent him, "COMMON PEOPLE" and Barrett showed me that
E-mail, just recently, to prove that he did get it. The Chicago Surrealist
group does not answer any E-mails that I have sent(this was going on for 2
years) and also the Paris Group, which has many broken links as I ntoiced among
you all. As I proceeded on into NowSurreal UK, I was able to contact
Xtain(Brand X) and Lady Hannah Cadaver both from Australia. They were the
only,"Group", 2 people mind you, that at least had the courtesy of writng me
back and going back and forth with dialoge. Then I was contacted by Bill Howe
from Leeds (Honestly, Ladies and Gentlemen, I did not know of Leeds until I got
to NowSurreal) and Bill and I have spoken at least 3 or 4 times, pleasant
conversation. Zazie, Evi Moechel, has sent me one E-mail, upon me trying to get
through to her for 3 years, but Zazie insists that she never recieved any
E-mails from me. I did get the one E-mail from her and she was telling me about
her future projects and something about Leeds. I have never met Brandon Freels
until NowSurreal UK, until Brandon was banned for violating the Forum
Regualtions by insulting and harrassing Trevor Partington one on one. Brandon
wrote to me regarding my post in the NowSurreal Uk Forum, "THE SURREALIST GROUP
IN STOCKHOLM", which I am so glad that I posted, because I FINALLY was able to
get to talk to Pierre Petiot, who ABANDONED the DIALOGE and came back weeks
later. I have read that the Prague Group doesn't like the Internet and now upon
reading Brandon Freels post here regarding his intent to Disconnect his
Interent Connection, then no communication is possible with both parties, one
entire group and one individual. Brandon has E-mailed me on occassion time to
time, but he REFUSES to provide me any information on where I can obtain his
books! I really want to read his work and get to enter the mind of this man,
but he stubbornly REFUSES! Dale Michael Houstman, who is a great poet
(probably a great artist, too) is the nastiest man that I have ever met in the
Contemporary Surrealist Movement. I do not Bullshit when I say he is a great
poet and fascinating Surrealist, but Ladies and Gentleman, the man is a real
nasty and obnoxious bastard and I only fuck with him because I believe in my
heart that he deserves it for being such a scumbag. Now, Upon the Coup that
occurred at NowSurreal UK, There was an Event called, SURREALISM 2002(an Online
Interent Event) that a HANDFUL of Surrealists made a real fuss over regrading
the Event from ever taking place. Then the Attacks on Ian Eade at NowSurreal
would not stop and the aftermath is that there is No Event, The Website no
longer has Forums, and many people are hurt and disgusted on both sides. The
Downslide started with the withdrawal of poet Derek Scefonas and then Richard
Dotson and also AD Spota, too. Richard Dotson's Withdrawal came with this
simple statement, "WHAT NO DEREK, NO ZAZIE PICS, I AM OUTTA HERE". Then he left
and also AD Spota followed suit, too. Prior to these Events happening, Zazie
requested to Ian that she was not happy with the quality of the discussion in
the NowSurreal UK Forums and that she wanted to leave the Forum and Website and
go on. Well, She did not make any major announcement to us all, which I think
is VERY DECEITFUL(and TOO MUCH EGO), and also There started the Exodus at
NowSurreal UK! Since people started to see that Zazie's Gallery was not online
there, they stared to jet,aka,Derek and Richard. SHE REQUESTED TO LEAVE, OPEN
YOUR EYES! Then Derek Scefonas upon ONE DAY AFTER ANNOUNCING LEAVING NOWSURREAL
UK AND THE FORUMS, Comes back the Very Next Day to post in the fourm and still
be part of the actibity there???????? To each his own, I say, It just really
throws you in the loop, well more happens. The Obvious
CREEPY,CREEPY,CREEPY,CREEPY,CREEPY,VICIOUS,VICIOUS,VICIOUS,VICIOUS,VISCIOUS
Attacks(Stalking too) on NowSurreal UK, Ian Eade Satirized in an ARTWORK no
less, WAS PLACED ON PIERRE PETIOT'S WEBSITE and announced by Yessica in the
Forums. JOHN ADAMS, SHAME ON YOU FOR CALLING ME A STALKER, AFTER THIS BULLSHIT!
Dale admitted along with Xtian that upon 40 E-mails from, "Surrealists(?)"
all over the world contributing help to this unjust attack, that it was worth
the harrassment and stalking and infiltration ALL TO SAVE SURREALISM! Brandon
Freels stated here that Zazie is,"UP IN ARMS" about being affiliated with
NowSurreal in any way,shape or form and she is pissed at Leeds???? Pierre
decideds to take over the Guestbook at NowSurreal UK, but as usual NO ONE KNOWS
WHAT GOES ON WITH HIM AND ZAZIE UNTIL THEY FEEL IT CONVENIENT TO INFORM US ALL!
Man, If You are so SINCERE then Please KEEP US ALL UPDATED ON YOUR ACTIVITY AS
I HAVE BEEN ASKING ALL ALONG!!! At least Dale attacks me on a daily basis and
reads my posts. Dale states that this alt.surrealism is a MUCKHOLE! IS the
anything worthwhile on the Internet regarding Surrealism that does not recieve
scorn from Dale? A GREAT POET BUT NASTY MAN! Get over your Rimbaud trip and
start being more nice, I admitted that I am an asshole for doing what I have
done in responding to ALL OF THIS! Man, Surrealism has not even seen one
glimmer of hope from you all. Pierre says that he has been trying for years to
UNTIE us ALL (so has Zazie), WELL HELP THEM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Even if I
never came along, You all would still be the DISORGANIZED GROUPS That the world
has seen all along! IF YOU ARE THE FUTURE OF SURREALISM THEN SHOW THE WORLD
THAT YOU
ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
barrett john erickson
"Kwigd144" <kwig...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020917104020...@mb-mk.aol.com...
> [...]
> years) and also the Paris Group, which has many broken links as I ntoiced
among
broken web links are a symptom of vitality, not decay.
> [...]
> Now, Upon the Coup that
> occurred at NowSurreal UK, There was an Event called, SURREALISM 2002(an
Online
> Interent Event) that a HANDFUL of Surrealists made a real fuss over
regrading
there were only a "handful of surrealists" aware of it at the time.
and there was no "coup" at nowSurreal. the "owner" still "owns" it, and
those who put up any resistance to his decisions are gone.
as for your timeline...
you weren't really paying attention were you?
the "downslide" began (long before either of us first posted there) with the
increasing trivial commercialization of a site taking the name of
surrealism. eventually this saw (among other things) banner ads and a
poster shoppe (is this and example of what you mean by COMMODITY SPACE?).
the main provocation eventually leading to its fall was the editing of forum
topic titles on the main page. an act of "editorial control" deliberately
intended to present a false (i.e., less likely to offend the casual web
prowler) image of the discussions taking place behind those links. the
"handful of surrealists" present would not let this sort of thing pass
because we recognized it for what it was.
and eventually "what it was" played out: under cover of darkness the
"owner" first acted, with autocratic arrogance, against Brandon, then zazie,
then more than half a dozen others, removing pictures and then every post
they ever made to the forum. none of this was in response to a request by
those "banished". we simply awoke one morning to find ourselves
"disappeared".
the only real surprise in this was how blatant it was.
the fun was watching the slow collapse of the forum itself as you and David
were left to simply rant for several days against those who could no longer
answer. really, it was you and David that finally killed the nowSurreal
forum.
and "Surrealism2002" wasn't blind-sided as we were. there was warning (as
there was about the site as a whole) and early attempts to explain what it
was that surrealists would find objectionable in the plan. but more
significantly, no one who had any knowledge of surrealist history could
expect surrealists to sit passively quiet when confronted with the
provocation of an exhibition called "Surrealism2002" that, because of those
organizing and _controlling_ it, was sure to be something quite other than
surrealist in spirit.
-- barrett
BLUE FEATHERS se2 (The New World Odor) is now available
(BF#4 will be available in July02)
http://www.MagneticFields.org/blue/
bar...@MagneticFields.org
http://www.MagneticFields.org/
surrealists in minnesota
Sur...@MagneticFields.org
==============================================
"Everything tends to make us believe that there exists a
certain point of the mind at which life and death, the real and
the imagined, past and future, the communicable and the
incommunicable, high and low, cease to be perceived as
contradictions."
...André Breton
==============================================
Kwigd144
collaborators. First, The Surrealism 2002 Event was done out of a labor of love
for Surrealism and Surrealist Art and it was called Surrealism 2002 upon a
vote by the organizers of this after you all decided to fight every step of the
way, but the organizers(Myself included) would not give in to only a small
group of people, Andrew Torch was really the first to make his voice heard!
Barrett, If ALL OF THE GROUPS were to Immediately FIGHT THE EVENT FROM DAY ONE,
then I can see some point, but the Vicious assualt over time was done out of
nothing but JEALOUSY, pure and simple. Five People(in ONE DAY!) were able to
create something that NONE OF YOU could create in the ten years of attempts! In
2 hours of announcing the Event, I ALONE PULLED IN AN ENTIRE SURREALIST GROUP
and TEN SURREALIST ARTISTS! Barrett, The issue over Surrealist Artists being
the Representative Showcase of Surrealism is ONE THAT YOU ALL HAVE TO ACCEPT
AND DEAL WITH BECAUSE YOU CANNOT STOP IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN! Barrett, I am
right now working on another attempt and maybe say a year or sooner(maybe
sooner than you think!), I WILL HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL SURREALISM EVENT and get
this, KEITH WIGDOR PRESENTS: SURREALISM! Barrett, I will not only do this and
make it a success, but I will also fight each and every one of you alone every
step of the way! Ian Eade is a Gentlemen and Saint for the gift of giving us
all NowSurreal UK whether You all like it or not! Barrett, Dale is proud of
the fact of RUINING the Surrealism 2002 Event along with Xtain and others! I
will say this FOR THE RECORD! KEITH WIGDOR IS NOT NOWSURREAL UK AND IAN AND
TREVOR ARE GENTLEMEN! I AM A VICIOUS SCUMBAG WHEN YOU FUCK WITH ME AND I WILL
FUCK WITH YOU!!!!! I will not only have my own website, but I will INVADE
every corner of the globe, SHOWCASING THE TRUE BEAUTY OF SURREALISM and YOU
WILL FIGHT ME and I WILL FIGHT YOU BACK, all the way! Barrett, Do not forget,
That I still have ACCESS where the DISORGANIZED GROUPS DO NOT! ZAZIE is also
part of the ART WORLD as I am, and there were 40 International Artists that
were SABOTAGED by Her Comrades and I will let the world know this! Remember,
Fuck with ME and I will Fuck with YOU! No Bullshit! Have a Wonderful
Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UBU
>I wrote to the Surrealist Group in Stockholm about 2 years ago and upon the
>response that I recieved from their leader (I am sorry, I forgot his name), I
>was told they DISBANDED!
of course, Breton is dead.
join the college de 'pataphysique.
UBU
Nous admettons comme un droit, et même comme un devoir,
pour les races supérieures, d'attirer à elles celles
qui ne sont pas parvenues au même degré de culture,
et de les appeler au progrès.
Leon Blum, 9/7/1925, intervention à la chambre des députés.
barrett john erickson
> Barrett, I need to clarify to you and all your comrades and surrealist
> collaborators. First, The Surrealism 2002 Event was done out of a labor of
love
> for Surrealism and Surrealist Art
i have no doubt it was a "labor of love for ... Art". but as such, it
should have avoided pretending to be a "labor of love for Surrealism" and
surrealists would have left you alone.
any true "surrealist event" begins with an attempt to come to grips with the
(full) reality of contemporary surrealism and procedes from there to attempt
to present this reality in as pure a state as possible. _this_ non-event
began by embracing the fact that its organizers were being roundly
criticized for their lack of understanding of matters related to surrealism.
this alone disqualifies it as a "surrealist event" and subsequent claim to
the title "Surrealism2002", for whatever reason, invited surrealist
intervention.
> and it was called Surrealism 2002 upon a
> vote by the organizers of this after you all decided to fight every step
of the
> way, but the organizers(Myself included) would not give in to only a small
> group of people, Andrew Torch was really the first to make his voice
heard!
that's nice. a moment of democratic civility amidst the friends of the
nowSurreal autocracy.
i have no way to verify if Torch was the first to speak in the nowSurreal
forum of course -- the autocracy has expunged the record -- but i know for a
fact the title was announced _before_ any objection was publicly raised.
you're simply wrong on this, if that is what you were trying to say.
if you are trying to say that the title was decided after you all suffered
the slings and arrows of surrealist outrage, see my comments above.
> Barrett, If ALL OF THE GROUPS were to Immediately FIGHT THE
> EVENT FROM DAY ONE, then I can see some point, but the Vicious
speaking only for myself, i made no comment until it became clear what kind
of sludge this was going to be _AND_ that you were going to try to claim it
represented "Surrealism2002". since i'd already decided i didn't want
anything to do with it, i felt no need to give my input on its assembly
before this.
your comment seems to assert that i should have jump to groundless
conclusions based only on who was promoting the concept?
but _then_, when you all claimed to be representing surrealism...
> assualt over time was done out of nothing but JEALOUSY, pure and
> simple.
this is purely and simply wrong.
you have absolutely no ability to know the motivations of all who acted
against this developing fraud, but i can speak quite directly about the
motivations of at least one -- and "jealousy" had nothing to do with it.
as i've said elsewhere, i have nothing against artists seeking a little wall
space (or web space in this case). and as i was not seeking such space
among you for myself, or attempting a similar travesty, there is no grounds
for your claim of jealousy.
i acted because surrealism -- and by extension, i myself -- was being
misrepresented.
> Five People(in ONE DAY!) were able to create something that
> NONE OF YOU could create in the ten years of attempts!
you have no idea what has or hasn't happened outside your range of vision
during _any_ period of time.
beyond that, what was created? what was the result of the attempt to usurp
surrealist perspective?
nowSurreal disintegrated before our eyes. congratulations!
> In 2 hours of announcing the Event, I ALONE PULLED IN AN
> ENTIRE SURREALIST GROUP and TEN SURREALIST ARTISTS!
the quantity of people you can convince to follow you in such a misadventure
is no more an indicator of its worth to surrealism than the "hit counter" at
nowSurreal was an indicator of its worth to surrealism.
the fact that you did it so suddenly actually speaks against your
accomplishment. how many would have remained after learning the full
history of some of its gatekeepers and their contempt for contemporary
surrealism?
you have an indicator here: Derek withdrew. Richard Dotson withdrew...
> The issue over Surrealist Artists being the Representative Showcase of
> Surrealism is ONE THAT YOU ALL HAVE TO ACCEPT
> AND DEAL WITH BECAUSE YOU CANNOT STOP IT FROM
> HAPPENING AGAIN!
i don't doubt that. but the task at hand, for a surrealist, is to make sure
that that "showcase" leads into a greater understanding of surrealism rather
than away from it.
> Barrett, I am right now working on another
> attempt and maybe say a year or sooner(maybe sooner than you think!),
> I WILL HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL SURREALISM EVENT and
> get this, KEITH WIGDOR PRESENTS: SURREALISM!
Keith, i can guarantee you that if you call it this, you are inviting
surrealist intervention.
the simple fact is, no one person can "present" surrealism. the more
complex fact is that you, in particular, do not have the confidence of the
movement, or the range of contacts, to attempt to do so.
if you insist on proceding, my advice is to hide it well enough that we
never find it at all.
> Ian Eade is a Gentlemen
> and Saint for the gift of giving us all NowSurreal UK whether You all
> like it or not!
i don't want to keep kicking Ian when he's down. so please stop
misrepresenting the facts.
> Barrett, Dale is proud of the fact of RUINING the
> Surrealism 2002 Event along with Xtain and others!
"Surrealism2002" self-destructed when faced with the opposition of actual
surrealists. it self-destructed because it could not answer the objections
of those surrealists. it could not answer the objections of those
surrealists because the event had no surrealist foundation and the
organizers had already proclaimed such foundations irrelevant to their
efforts. hence, it was an event that existed entirely outside of and in
opposition to surrealism yet claimed to represent it.
its self-destruction was the inevitible consequence of cognitive dissonance.
> I will say this FOR
> THE RECORD! KEITH WIGDOR IS NOT NOWSURREAL UK
> AND IAN AND TREVOR ARE GENTLEMEN! I AM A VICIOUS
> SCUMBAG WHEN YOU FUCK WITH ME AND I WILL
> FUCK WITH YOU!!!!! I will not only have my own website, but I will
> INVADE every corner of the globe, SHOWCASING THE TRUE
> BEAUTY OF SURREALISM and YOU WILL FIGHT ME and I
> WILL FIGHT YOU BACK, all the way! Barrett, Do not forget, That
> I still have ACCESS where the DISORGANIZED GROUPS DO NOT!
> ZAZIE is also part of the ART WORLD as I am, and there were 40
> International Artists that were SABOTAGED by Her Comrades and
> I will let the world know this! Remember, Fuck with ME and I will Fuck
> with YOU! No Bullshit! Have a Wonderful Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well, i have no idea what this rambling threat is supposed to mean.
but like i said above, Keith, my advice is to avoid calling whatever it is
you do "KEITH WIGDOR PRESENTS: SURREALISM", or anything else implying that
you are offering something representative of surrealism as it exists today.
it invites correction.
david anthony magitis
David
> were left to simply rant for several days against those who could no
longer
> answer. really, it was you and David that finally killed the nowSurreal
> forum.
Barrett I would check you facts on this one, I did not rant about those who
had been removed, rather reply to Dale's posts who as you know was there
until the forums removal.
derek
posts, as he did with so many others without their permision
david anthony magitis
deemed surreal, be it activity or art. This included an invitation to those
who from time to time slag each other off. It's main aim was for each group
to express there interpretation of surrealism. (be it right or wrong. Who is
the judge by the way?) So for such an event to take shape many were asked if
they would like to take part and have their say. Many agreed. If it's main
purpose was to provide the likes of those here the chance to express their
activities then what is fundamentally wrong with this happening. I posted
the event here inviting who ever to come along and collaborate/take part. An
event where we would not slag each other off, just have our own
interpretations of what we feel, what we are all about.
barrett john erickson
"david anthony magitis" <ima...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:am8hs9$oqp$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
well, that's easy enough for you to say since there's no way to check the
facts on this now that the record has been expunged by the autocracy, is
there?
oh... wait...
Imagist:
Posted: 2002-09-09 01:46
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The point was that there are bigger pricks out there than me or us!! I make
money from my art!! Those who are jelious and think they are rebelious do
not! I found the page amusing and not in anyway offensive, the fact of the
matter is who will visit this page and agree with it's poor statement. If
those out there wish to play this game, hell I'm in you all have guest books
don't you. you all have may I say it SUB Domains. O.K sad bastards you want
war, bring it on, how many of you here had artworks in the galleries? how
many here had anything to say! Hed my words I make money from art you do
not, you will always be hobbyists without a future. So come on sad lonely
weirdo's what have you left in the tank? All those who wish to support Ian
and Trevor please list your names in support!
Imagist:
Posted: 2002-09-09 03:31
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
What makes me laugh Keith is that earlier I received a comment about swiss
cheese! the same people who designed these shite ads. Of course you know who
it is just look out for the shite websites you know the ones which look like
they invited the kids of the streets into there homes and said design me a
web site. Talentless bunch of tussack fuck wits!! But please invite more
around I love to see amature surrealist activities. lollipop anyone!
Imagist:
Posted: 2002-09-09 03:36
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Infact I would advertise the fact that there content is so crap! But hey the
figures of hits already point this out.495 since March hrmm popular that!
Must visit again, make it 496 in about two months time. Hobbyists sad
losers.
Imagist:
Posted: 2002-09-09 03:47
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
They have discovered links, my god what next clean crisp images, god help
us, does anyone wish to see the latest brand shite home page?
[and my personal favorite "smoking gun":]
Imagist:
Posted: 2002-09-09 04:13
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Keith you know you will not hear from them, let them go. Let them think that
what they are doing is right. At the end of the day they are nobodies sad
individuals without a future. I bet in ten years time or less you will never
hear of their names again. All doors were locked on us remember. But it is
O.K for those to send us e-mails to which we reply. Lasts words are indeed a
comfort and know that privalige has been taken away from them. I know How I
would feel, stompt on you know time to bring out the silly little kid in me.
I say Keith fuck them!! I would not piss on them if one of there surreal
meetings caught fire!! Narrow minded sad hobbyists. Thankfully not all are
the same way.
-- barrett
barrett john erickson
> [...]
not that any of the rest of this post made any sense, but...
> CURRENT VIBE in Today's Art Scene. Damien Hirst is being hammered real bad
for
> his stupid and foolish comments! I also want to mention that his Art
Dealer,
> Larry Gagosian, is considering dropping him. Barrett, Please remind Zazie
about
> this story next time she forms an Alliance with the likes of Dale Houstman
and
> other Trash! Again, KEITH WIGDOR presents SURREALSIM!
what the hell does Damien Hirst have to do with anything we've been talking
about? and why the hell should zazie (or anyone else for that matter) care?
[you really should try to form and present complete thoughts if you're
actually trying to communicate something. if you're not trying to
communicate, you should stop addressing people directly, because this
conveys the impression that you are trying to communicate.]
-- barrett
barrett john erickson
> Surrealism2002 was and will be in the future a gathering of all what is
> deemed surreal,
the question is and remains 'deemed' by whom?
according to the posted information that deeming was to be done by yourself,
keith, trevor, ian, and William T. Ayton.
i don't know enough about Ayton to comment on his credibility relative to
surrealism, but this is hardly a representative group of surrealists.
> be it activity or art. This included an invitation to those
> who from time to time slag each other off. It's main aim was for each
group
> to express there interpretation of surrealism. (be it right or wrong. Who
is
> the judge by the way?)
surrealists. pure and simple.
> So for such an event to take shape many were asked if
> they would like to take part and have their say. Many agreed. If it's main
> purpose was to provide the likes of those here the chance to express their
> activities then what is fundamentally wrong with this happening.
nothing, if it professed to be no more than that. the problem is, it
professed to be a representation of "Surrealism2002", and the objections of
surrealists were not welcome.
> I posted
> the event here inviting who ever to come along and collaborate/take part.
An
> event where we would not slag each other off, just have our own
> interpretations of what we feel, what we are all about.
fine, do it. just don't call it a representation of contemporary surrealism
when what you are doing is actually an invitational/juried exhibition of
material selected without concern for the reality of contemporary
surrealism.
-- barrett
john adams
"barrett john erickson" <bar...@magneticfields.org> wrote in message
news:3d87f095$0$19398$8f4e...@newsreader.goldengate.net...
:
: "david anthony magitis" <ima...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
: news:am8hs9$oqp$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
: > > the fun was watching the slow collapse of the forum itself as you and
: > David
: > > were left to simply rant for several days against those who could no
: > longer
: > > answer. really, it was you and David that finally killed the nowSurreal
: > > forum.
: >
: > Barrett I would check you facts on this one, I did not rant about those
: who
: > had been removed, rather reply to Dale's posts who as you know was there
: > until the forums removal.
:
: well, that's easy enough for you to say since there's no way to check the
: facts on this now that the record has been expunged by the autocracy, is
: there?
:
: oh... wait...
:
: Imagist:
:
: Posted: 2002-09-09 01:46
It would seem they're all a little full of shit.
john adams
: Surrealism2002 was and will be in the future a gathering of all what is
: deemed surreal, be it activity or art. This included an invitation to those
: who from time to time slag each other off. It's main aim was for each group
: to express there interpretation of surrealism. (be it right or wrong. Who is
: the judge by the way?)
It is simply their interpretation. However, whether it is a historically precise
one may be another story. I am not one to somehow force perceptions
or make individuals abide by any certain golden rule. Individuals are free
to maintain and express their perceptions or misperceptions at will. Their
expression is all a part of learning/awareness anyway. Theoretically that is
what such a gathering is based on, I assume. Those individuals should be
prepared for some debate regarding the history and tenets of the philosophy
at hand (Surrealism). (From what I have noticed here and in NowSurreal,
there were certain people very resistant to debate and (other) Surrealist's
perspectives. And then censorship ensued).
-Surrealism means, in part atleast, something unique to each individual.
-There is a certain basis for Surrealism's historical formation and its
formulation; theoretically Surrealism is an open-ended "system"/association
with certain features that make it unique.
-I practice no mantras, and am not "faithful" to any one system. I don't attempt
to force another's usage of one's name, though may challenge anyone else's
philosophical position or the facts regarding it, in a forum or elsewhere.
Likewise, institutions should not be immune to such debates or inquiry in
general.
- I think an Us vs. the Enemy dichotomy is too simplistic (Re: Now
Surreal and others) and replaces the larger issue for the symptoms
of the problem.
The anatomy of the situation is such that capitalism and popular media,
through its commodification of things, has adopted a marketable
replacement of the real thing (surrealism). It should not quite be our concern
that there may be uneducated victims of such commodification at large (and there
are many) running around helping to worsen the world as much as it is to
continue a path towards valuable understanding and change of that existence,
which of course requires the spread of awareness and education through
action.
Really, the victims are ourselves and the enemy ourselves, all.
Until the channels of media are opened, the equal access to resources
and the subsistence of free living achieved, humans will continue
in the oppressed - "sold" - state of being. What follows past that I think
is Surrealism's desirable state amongst Surrealists, but "authentic
surrealism" will be as freely visible in the mainstream as any other
form and equally disputed or encouraged, not manipulated by the
coerciveness of State and the fractionation of economic might.
In sum, I say anyone may stake a claim at being surrealist, as much
as anyone may say they are the son of Jesus and Breton. It may or
may not be very factually inclined. Should it bother surrealists, and
religious groups alike, whether they are delusional or not? The concern
stirs when some dishonest representation of one thing is made that
desires to be openly challenged.
Some rambling thoughts.
- john
barrett john erickson
> Remember, I will let the WORLD know what
> you all did to SURREALISM 2002 and NowSurreal UK!
you know Keith, we didn't actually get around to doing anything to
"Surrealism2002". we simply mocked nowSurreal to death.
damn, that surrealist mocking must be some pretty potent toxin. sure you
want to spread the word on that. i mean, you can't tell us just by looking
at us. we could be... we ARE everywhere. you could cause panic world-wide.
-- barrett
john adams
"derek" <a...@aa.mj> wrote in message news:DNPh9.132180$Jo.37131@rwcrnsc53...
: I only came back because Ian refused my request to take off my work and
: posts, as he did with so many others without their permision
Ah there you have it, the proof is in the pudding.
Kwigd144
Kwigd144
presents SURREALISM!
Kwigd144
from Brandon and IT IS HARRASSMENT!!!!!
Kwigd144
presents SURREALISM!!!!!!!!!!!
Marcus Williamson
>I already have an idea for banners to promote this
Well done! :-)
Ian Eade
Never at any time was your request to remove your work refused, I'll leave
you to post the true response
"derek" <a...@aa.mj> wrote in message news:DNPh9.132180$Jo.37131@rwcrnsc53...
derek
because my last poem "the journey" had turned into a cadaver and those that
posted on it gave me new hope for the site. And you were one of those people
Keith.
Then things went to shit. and I wished I had left the first time for good. I
stayed that first time because I took my posistion as moderator seriously.
And I had conversations (IM) with people like Pierre and others during that
time that made me think that there was hope for the forum.
I really should have left the first time.
"Kwigd144" <kwig...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020918012623...@mb-de.aol.com...
> Unfortunatley for the World, That is not true. Derek Scefonas requested in
the
> Forums that he wanted to leave the site and comes back the very next day!.
He
> also stated in the Forums that he did not know his place in the,
"SURREAL".
> Shame, A great Poet, But one of Zazie's(SHAME ON YOU ZAZIE!)
> Disciples!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pierre,
> Please apologize to IAN EADE and rid yourself of these trash people that
you
> call friends and pay more attention to your job as software engineer,
instead
> of forming allegiances with nasty people. SHAME ON YOU for doing what you
did
> to IAN! KEITH WIGDOR presents SURREALISM. GET USED TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Barrett, Do you want those names?
derek
> also stated in the Forums that he did not know his place in the,
"SURREAL".
> Shame, A great Poet, But one of Zazie's(SHAME ON YOU ZAZIE!)
Funny thing about that is Z and I mostly talk about cooking.
derek
but I will be around.
peace yalll
derek
Kwigd144
COOKING with Zazie and not SURREALISM! SHAME ON YOU! Ian responded to your post
and you run away! I have proven my point on this one, CASE
CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
derek
to time consuming or difficult and that you could not comply with a whim or
something like that I would look up the exact reply to my request but it was
purged.
"Ian Eade" <Bogo...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:am9r0h$f19$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
Kwigd144
Now With? You told us all here yesterday that you were leaving alt.surrealism.
CHOO CHOO, Next STOP, MINNEAPOLIS! Moo Moo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
derek
At one point I thought that perhaps you were the most surrealist mind out
there. Now I Know you are just lonely. I was your friend and would like to
still be your friend, Keith. Be well.
"Kwigd144" <kwig...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020918214836...@mb-dd.aol.com...
Kwigd144
request to leave, which was granted. Then you come back the very next day!
Derek, You are a GREAT POET and You are making an Alliance with People that
WILL NOT HELP YOU nor Nuture Your PRECIOUS GIFT OF THE WRITTEN WORD! You are
one of the greatest poets today and you walk away from the OPPURTUNITY to turn
the world on to your art. Derek, hanging around with these manipualtive screw
ups will never help you. THE WORLD DESERVES DEREK SCEFONAS, not this TRASH!
Come On Man, Derek, get off the Hippie Rimbaud Ginsberg Trip, all for fun, Man!
You are Amazing and YOU ARE LETTING IT GO AWAY FROM YOU! That is why I am so
upset with you and YOU JSUT DON'T CARE! Derek, Care about your work and REALIZE
that I and others CARE! These people are wasted away in NOWHERE, MAN! Dale,
Is a Great Poet and REFUSES TO ALLOW THE WORLD TO READ HIS POETRY! Is this the
path that you want to go? 30 books and unpublished! Derek, He would not mention
it on his bio unless he tried and GAVE UP! DON'T GIVE UP! These People are
scumbags and will lead you away from your work! I am only telling the truth and
it hurts but it is true. Fuck Keith Wigdor, What difference does it make, but
YOU STILL COME BACK, BECAUSE YOU ARE A GREAT POET! Derek, If you Mistrear your
work, it will Mistreat You.
Morpheal
> I wrote to the Surrealist Group in Stockholm about 2 years ago and upon the response that I recieved from their leader (I am sorry, I forgot his name), I was told they DISBANDED!....yakata, yakata, yak.
Well, actually most "groups" nowadays exist only for the sake of
providing a rationale for having parties, and not really for the sake
of doing credible or even interesting art. They pick a genre, a name,
and then get drunk. That's all.
So you don't surprise me even slightly that there was so little interest
in your serious minded inquiries. There are very few real artists in the
world, and even fewer real art groups. Most of it is simply an illusion.
Finding the real is very difficult. Finding the surreal among the real
is even more difficult. It's an enchanted forest, or a mad magician's
darkest maze, where you can easily be completely disipated before
arriving at even the smallest accomplishment. Cheers !
Oh, don't get me wrong, I enjoy some partying, now and then, too.
However, the problem is that the work does not take precedence in many
situations and it becomes a waste of artistic time to even try to work
with people. The exception to that is rare.
R.M.
Kwigd144
is a difference between proper satire and mocking (if it is all in fun) and
SABOTAGE. The Various Surrealist Group's Member's have entered into NowSurreal
Uk Forum with the ANTICIPATION of COLLABORATION and GAMEs, etc, etc. The
Downfall of the Forums was do to the Downfall of the Dialoge, Started by
Brandon Freels who refised to UNDERSTAND! Morpheal, any attempts to Actively
Engage SURREALISM and SURREALIST INQUIRY and Debate/Discussions/Dialoge will go
on, Thanks to Me. Notice How Dale keeps on Responding to me along with Barrett,
They are Surrealists, no doubt about that, but they oversee a dead movement.
Kwigd144
Groups over in Paris, etc. The Organizational Aspects of it is what I am
addressing here on a daily basis, even with the extremely stupid and insane
posts that I have made, I have successfully pulled out the Surrealists Dale
Houstman/Barrett John Erickson/John Adams/Brandon Freels into debates and
arguments(insults too, they ask for it,since they dish it out) and still the
Surrealist Voice rarely gets out. I myself see it very difficult for Blue
Feathers/Magnetic Fields/Barrett and Dale, when Barrett,especially mentions THE
CORPORATE LEFT. When he decides to implement walls and barriers in the LEFT
then it would be very difficult to get the proper Organizational Base that
these People(The Corporate Left) can Provide. Cythera, Is Mother Jones really a
Sell-Out and Tool of the System? I also NEED to Stress the OBVIOUS. Here is a
perfect example: Evi Moechel and Dale Houstman recently collaborated on an
artwork that was announced on Evi Moechel's website, this is Now. Dale Houstman
has been very active in the Surrealism for 30 years, why all of a sudden a
collaboration NOW? Cythera, Mind You that it is great to have any collaboration
but DIVISION LINES ARE DRAWN ALREADY BY THE PEOPLE! Both Zazie and Pierre have
deliberately kept us all out of the loop in regards to INFROMATION which is the
most important. I am not talking about any lame agruments at NowSurreal
Forums(That is a Dead Horse Now thanks to them,How Nice!) but SURREALSIM in
General. Cythera, I cannot find the satisfaction in a group of people that
CHOOSE to Keep closed doors. If Leeds thinks NowSurreal was a dump, well, does
that stop Bill Howe from E-mailing me?, No! Here we have 2 very prominent
members of the Paris Group discussing Closed Doors with the Webmaster that they
and their comrades have been going at all along and then Pierre decides to take
over the guestbook. Cythera, Please figure it out, Oh, Brandon and Dale are
right on this: The Downfall of Surrealism 2002 was about POWER, the POWER of
THE SURREALIST MACHINE! Morpheal is going on with me yakkity yakkity yakkity
and he offers no solution. Cythera, let me ask you: CAN YOU MAKE AN ASSESSMENT
ON WHERE SURREALISM CAN GO IF ORGANIZED WITH OPEN DOORS? I do respect your
input, even when I act like an idiot(100% of the time). I amn serious here
though, please help.
john adams
: Cythra, I guess either Martin or Pierre might be the guiding lights of the
: Groups over in Paris, etc. The Organizational Aspects of it is what I am
: addressing here on a daily basis, even with the extremely stupid and insane
: posts
Stupid, yes.
:that I have made, I have successfully pulled out the Surrealists Dale
: Houstman/Barrett John Erickson/John Adams/Brandon Freels into debates and
: arguments(insults too, they ask for it,since they dish it out)
You dish out nothing but insults and crap, I sometimes repsond,
therefore I deserve it? Interesting equation.
:and still the
: Surrealist Voice rarely gets out.
Why would one get out with the kind of discussions you present?
Kwigd144
ignorance when you have creted the platform for it to exist. John, Come on, do
you really THINK that YOU and Yoru Comrades have DONE ANYTHING SUCCESSFUL on a
MAJOR LEVEL? Out of date Web Pages and Empty Rhetoric! YOU DO NOT OFFER
OPTIONS!!!! John, Seriously,Please, Show me the RESULTS of the OPTIONS.
john adams
: John, You OFFER NO OPTIONS! That is why! Youa re met with stupidity and
: ignorance when you have creted the platform for it to exist.
Keith, may I ask what the hell are you talking about?
:John, Come on, do
: you really THINK that YOU and Yoru Comrades have DONE ANYTHING SUCCESSFUL on a
: MAJOR LEVEL? Out of date Web Pages and Empty Rhetoric! YOU DO NOT OFFER
: OPTIONS!!!!
Rather judgemental and presumptious of you, isn't it? What would
you know about what I have done in my life and whether it is
"successful"?
:John, Seriously,Please, Show me the RESULTS of the OPTIONS.
What freaking options? options for what?
And just so you know, I wasn't involved with your little NowSurreal
fall-out. I left all of about one message in that forum and left because
it seemed like such a miserable place because of the closed-minded
annoying attitudes of many there.
-john