surreal

[Parry]

Roel Scheijde wrote:
>
> there was a discusion a while ago about surreal filmmaking, but what is
> sureal filmmaking.
> If I remember my art lessons correctly, surrealism emerged just after the
> subconsies was discoverd.
> The surreal movment tried to combien the theories about the subconsies with
> art (someone like Max Ernst went as far as making random lines and
> "discover" a picture in it).
> This means that surreal art isn't just wierd pictures and pretty collors,
> it's wierd pictures with a purpose and a meaning (being subconsios these
> aren't always very clear).
>
> taking this in mind I would call a movie like Eraserhead surreal and a movie
> like The Cell not.

This is essentially correct. In pursuing automatic thought, the
surrealists considered Freud’s model of the mind (and even did original
translations of some of Freud’s writings), though Freud is not the
beginning or end of surrealism. Surrealist works are often wrapped
around a kernel of the inscrutable, but surrealism is always purposeful
and not simply stylized strangeness.

Despite this, the adjective “surreal” has become common usage to
describe any work which has bizarre or dream-like elements (or worse, I
once saw a book of op-art images titled “Surreal Postcards”). Usually,
these works have nothing to do with surrealism, and to call them
“surreal” is an abuse of language. There’s little one can do about it,
though. Maybe the best thing is to resign the adjective “surreal” to its
popular usage and reserve “surrealist” for works that have an actual
connection to surrealist thought.

So I would say: “Eraserhead” (not that I care for it) is a much better
movie than “The Cell,” but it is not surrealist. Both are surreal.
Kenton’s “Island of Lost Souls” (to pick a random example) is closer to
surrealism than either of them -- Schlesinger’s “Island” is farther
away. Buñuel’s “The Phantom of Liberty” would be an example of a
surrealist movie.

-- Parry

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[Christophe]

I recently saw a rather surrealist movie (sleep deprivation could be the
cause of the surreality) late at night on the sci-fi channel (have I already
told you this story? I believe I have, it's simply too beautiful to give up)
called "The City of Lost Children". Has anyone experience this bespattering
of injected quodlibets?

Another movie I saw recently that might be surreal. 'Might be' simply
because I don't remember...:

"Dark City" it starts out surreal but slowly becomes .....not surreal? is
that possible? I no not. Help me. Help me. Where are you when I need you, my
love? I call upon the moat mongrel of the misaligned mugtok-ba-jeeib
villagers (who are, at this very very very moment, in the progress of their
annual bathing ritual) and their beautifully decayed carcasses hanging on
the hyuook!

much fluff and napkin sprinkles,
Christophe (octal-quark?)

P.S. : you can't beat me you bastards! not me! Hah! (rough translation:
flying-fuck as a lifestyle methoditude/thinkum-dinkum)

"Parry" <pa...@perfectOMITmail.com> wrote in message
news:3C1C30...@perfectOMITmail.com...

[Edward]

"Dark City" is nice movie but it's not surreal.
It's just nicely-twisted sci-fi with elements of suspense.

"The City of Lost Children" is surreal and surrealistc (in a way).

A perfect sample of surrealistic movie would be "Dr.Caligari" (by
Saydian).
-----------
Edward

[James Takayama]

Don't forget Mickey One with Warren Beatty. That is sureal.

"Edward" <dx...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3C1CA026...@yahoo.com...

[redbeard_nv]

Edward <dx...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Dark City" is nice movie but it's not surreal.
>It's just nicely-twisted sci-fi with elements of suspense.
>
>"The City of Lost Children" is surreal and surrealistc (in a way).

It is that City Of Lost Children remains within it's surreal
atmosphere, but Dark City takes it's early surrealistic imagery and
explains the reason behind it, basing it with a more "traditional"
plot.

Surreal is less tangible in many ways, and does not step out of itself
to give you a guided tour. It stands on it's own and allows the viewer
to make their own interpetations.

[Ventolin]

Christophe wrote in message ...

>
>I recently saw a rather surrealist movie (sleep deprivation could be the
>cause of the surreality) late at night on the sci-fi channel (have I
already
>told you this story? I believe I have, it's simply too beautiful to give
up)
>called "The City of Lost Children". Has anyone experience this bespattering
>of injected quodlibets?

If you like "City of Lost Children", check out "Delicattessen" (sp?).
It has that same surreal, apocalyptic atmostphere and is by the same
director. Now, if you want to see a *surrealist* film, by all means check
out "Un Chien Andalou". It was inspired by the dreams of Salvador Dali. I
agree with the other poster that "surreal" is a word that's become used to
describe something dreamlike or otherworldly where as "surrealist" has to do
with a chance meeting on a dissecting table with an umbrella and some other
such meaningful nonsense.

vent.

[Morpheal]

Ventolin wrote:

> If you like "City of Lost Children", check out "Delicattessen" (sp?).
It has that same surreal, apocalyptic atmostphere and is by the same
director. Now, if you want to see a *surrealist* film, by all means
check out "Un Chien Andalou". It was inspired by the dreams of Salvador
Dali.

Yes.

>I agree with the other poster that "surreal" is a word that's become used to describe something dreamlike or otherworldly where as "surrealist" has to do with a chance meeting on a dissecting table with an umbrella and some other such meaningful nonsense.

No.

M.

[Sam Rouse]

Surrealists

Once there was a group of surrealists that met every Wednesday in a conference
room at a public building. On this particular Wednesday, one of the surrealists
entered a motion to create a Manifesto for the group. This was seconded, and
further motions were passed to form a committee, elect a chairman for the
committee, establish a charter for the committee, and many other things that
were thought to lead to the expedient development of the Manifesto. This was
completed in a surprisingly short period of time, and with few bangings of the
gavel by the chairman.

It was soon moved and seconded that the meeting be adjourned. After informal
farewells, the surrealists arranged the chairs tidily around the table and
quietly left the room.

Then the dog woke up, snorted once, and rolled over on his back. The cat
smiled, rubbed the dog's tummy and said, "What's for breakfast?"

[Dale Houstman]

"Sam Rouse" <sama...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:samandor-2B8BD6...@enews.newsguy.com...

I suppose this is meant to be a dreary parable whose message is that "all
activity is worthless unless it makes the newspapers" or some such
anti-imagination and pro-power nonsense. It may be true - in fact it is
obviously true - that the vast majority of surrealist activities - like the
vast majority of human activity in general - wouldn't stop a fly from eating
shit or milk from curdling in the sun, but the observation is irrelevant to
anyone but those who would only value celebrity, and whose ideals of
achievement have been corrupted by watching Entertainment Tonight. Much of
what is actually priceless in the world has always been invisible but to a
few.

dmh

[Morpheal]

Sam Rouse wrote:

> It was soon moved and seconded that the meeting be adjourned. After informal farewells, the surrealists arranged the chairs tidily around the table and quietly left the room.

You forgot the part where they took the subparagraphs from "Robert's
Rules of Order" and threw them into a hat, each having to draw one out
of the hat and implement it in sequential turn, one after the other.

> Then the dog woke up, snorted once, and rolled over on his back. The cat smiled, rubbed the dog's tummy and said, "What's for breakfast?"

The cat then proceeded to eat the dog.

M.

[Morpheal]

Dale Houstman wrote:

> I suppose this is meant to be a dreary parable whose message is..

Maybe Bin Laden was the source of it. It is suitably dreary.
Therefore reminiscent of his style.

Actually, the loop in the parable, to writing another Surrealist
Manifesto, is the most surreal part of all. Surrealists going back along
a time line to re-authoring their own manifesto, ad infinitum. Trapped
in the circuit, and unable to make anything more than very slight
emendations to the substantive portion of what was largely Breton's
sense of humour. Though everyone missed the joke.

It is somewhat the same, as to senses of humour, as when we see the
Taleban and the Northern Alliance both laughing uproariously and
enjoying immensely what we see as a most horrific situation. We simply
don't understand either Bin or his friends and foes. We don't. That's
all there is to it.

The meaining of that parable is that many people, if not most, do NOT
understand surrealism or its manifestos. That includes many a
surrealist.

M.

[kin...@hfwork1.tn.tudelft.nl]

Sam Rouse <sama...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Once there was a group of surrealists that met every Wednesday in a conference

transfer point on the road to Kandahar, har har, and Big Al did the wrong woman

> room at a public building. On this particular Wednesday, one of the surrealists

ate breakfast and declared it surreal: "Surreal!" she reclared, afterwards

> entered a motion to create a Manifesto for the group. This was seconded, and

I lost count of the eggs but the bombers were raining fire, shitcanning,

> further motions were passed to form a committee, elect a chairman for the

chair (what else!) a postman for the post, but still Big Al cowered in the

> committee, establish a charter for the committee, and many other things that

flew planes and curved, topologically complex surfaces, which suffices, ices,

> were thought to lead to the expedient development of the Manifesto. This was

good, thought Al, Big Al, reading greek, alpha, chi, eta, and still the beards

> completed in a surprisingly short period of time, and with few bangings of the

native dressers, and the NZ special forces called skyhawks to support on air the
> gavel by the chairman.

> It was soon moved and seconded that the meeting be adjourned. After informal

informative information, Big Al Chi, with breakfast he ate, cutting daisy

> farewells, the surrealists arranged the chairs tidily around the table and

said: "It wasn't like that when we arrived", and then the airstrike
> quietly left the room.

> Then the dog woke up, snorted once, and rolled over on his back. The cat

licked the blind secretaries beard, and his new legistation

> smiled, rubbed the dog's tummy and said, "What's for breakfast?"

#Paul

[cythera]

Sam Rouse "<sama...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > Once there was a group of surrealists that met every Wednesday in a
> > conference
> transfer point on the road to Kandahar, har har, and Big Al did the
> wrong woman

while Little Al cried, "Tu who!" in the sitting

> > room at a public building. On this particular Wednesday, one of the
> > surrealists
> ate breakfast and declared it surreal: "Surreal!" she reclared,
> afterwards

the Taliban held up jewelry stores and money exchanges on their way
out of town. Little Al

> > entered a motion to create a Manifesto for the group. This was
> > seconded, and
> I lost count of the eggs but the bombers were raining fire, shitcanning,

and inside the building it was literally raining cats and dogs!

> > further motions were passed to form a committee, elect a chairman for the
> chair (what else!) a postman for the post, but still Big Al cowered in the

dumpster of indecision with Little Johnnie Walker who decided to switch.
I suggest a vegetarian

> > committee, establish a charter for the committee, and many other things
> > that
> flew planes and curved, topologically complex surfaces, which suffices,
> ices,

and terrorist diamonds under the tree. The Als smoked cigars, and in
tandem their tanzanite-scented eyes

> > were thought to lead to the expedient development of the Manifesto.
> > This was
> good, thought Al, Big Al, reading greek, alpha, chi, eta, and still the
> beards

of the Taliban circus ladies rival those of the flying yak! His toilette is

> > completed in a surprisingly short period of time, and with few bangings
> > of the
> native dressers, and the NZ special forces called skyhawks to support

on air the giant floating nets of dreams. Meanwhile the jewel-laden Talib
flee across the field of frozen rum to time beaten by the
> gavel by the chairman.

> > It was soon moved and seconded that the meeting be adjourned. After
> > informal
> informative information, Big Al Chi, with breakfast he ate, cutting

daisy dogs and snowing poppy camoflage, played back leveled

> > farewells, the surrealists arranged the chairs tidily around the table and
> said: "It wasn't like that when we arrived", and then the airstrike
> quietly left the room.

> > Then the dog woke up, snorted once, and rolled over on his back. The cat
> licked the blind secretaries beard, and his new legistation

saluted bare arms and

> smiled, rubbed the dog's tummy and said, "What's for breakfast?"

#Paul

cythera.

kin...@hfwork1.tn.tudelft.nl wrote in message news:<juisv9...@luke.lsr.ph.ic.ac.uk>...

[cythera]

"Dale Houstman" <dm...@citilink.com> wrote in message news:<9vsb1...@enews2.newsguy.com>...

What a joke -- talk about being "anti-imagination and pro-power"!
Why don't you _ask_ him or her what the "message" of the "parable"
is. Or if there _is_ an intended message. Or if he or she even
thinks this is a parable.

But why would an arrogant person like you bother yourself doing that --

> It may be true - in fact it is obviously true - that the vast majority
> of surrealist activities - like the vast majority of human activity in
> general - wouldn't stop a fly from eating shit or milk from curdling in
> the sun, but the observation is irrelevant to anyone but those who would
> only value celebrity,

This must be a joke. What are you talking about -- do you even know this
person _at all_? Of course not!

> and whose ideals of achievement have been corrupted by watching
> Entertainment Tonight.

Which, based on your reading of the 151 words in Sam's post, is supposed
to be him. You're full of it!

> Much of what is actually priceless in the world has always been invisible
> but to a few.

Strange that you want to think that, but I suppose it sustains you
in some way.

If you try talking with people instead of _at them_, you could _find
out_ what is "visible" to them.

cythera.
>
> dmh

[Sam Rouse]

In article <9vsb1...@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Dale Houstman"
<dm...@citilink.com> wrote:

Not at all. What led you to that conclusion?

> It may be true - in fact it is
> obviously true - that the vast majority of surrealist activities - like the
> vast majority of human activity in general - wouldn't stop a fly from eating
> shit or milk from curdling in the sun, but the observation is irrelevant to
> anyone but those who would only value celebrity, and whose ideals of
> achievement have been corrupted by watching Entertainment Tonight. Much of
> what is actually priceless in the world has always been invisible but to a
> few.

I have to say that I'm still figuring out the point of the story, even though I
wrote it. However, I feel confident in saying that you've missed it (whatever
it is). I appreciate the discussion, though.
-

[Sam Rouse]

In article <3C21CE3D...@sympatico.ca>, morp...@sympatico.ca wrote:

> Dale Houstman wrote:
>
> > I suppose this is meant to be a dreary parable whose message is..
>
> Maybe Bin Laden was the source of it. It is suitably dreary.
> Therefore reminiscent of his style.
>
> Actually, the loop in the parable, to writing another Surrealist
> Manifesto, is the most surreal part of all. Surrealists going back along
> a time line to re-authoring their own manifesto, ad infinitum. Trapped
> in the circuit, and unable to make anything more than very slight
> emendations to the substantive portion of what was largely Breton's
> sense of humour. Though everyone missed the joke.

This is pretty close to the point (if there is one ;).

See also "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Hofstadter, and consider substituting
"recursion" for "loop."

[Dale Houstman]

"Sam Rouse" <sama...@newsguy.com> wrote in message

news:samandor-212CE3...@enews.newsguy.com...

It's obvious.

dmh

>
> > It may be true - in fact it is
> > obviously true - that the vast majority of surrealist activities - like
the
> > vast majority of human activity in general - wouldn't stop a fly from
eating
> > shit or milk from curdling in the sun, but the observation is irrelevant
to
> > anyone but those who would only value celebrity, and whose ideals of
> > achievement have been corrupted by watching Entertainment Tonight. Much
of
> > what is actually priceless in the world has always been invisible but to
a
> > few.
>
> I have to say that I'm still figuring out the point of the story, even
though I
> wrote it. However, I feel confident in saying that you've missed it
(whatever
> it is). I appreciate the discussion, though.

Your confidence is either mislaid or faked.

dmh

[Black Barrel-25]

ARRABAL'S 'VIVA LA MUERTE' A film that for me at the time I saw it, plunged
me into the abyss. The abyss is oceanic and seemingly chaotic. It makes me feel that
'reality' is totally false. Its a very interesting concept, however I crave for the solid,
not the translucent (even though the translucent is perhaps --reality--)
A very surrealist film. ARRABAL is(or was) a genius alchemical film maker

Morpheal wrote:

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[Optigon]

Check out Jodorowsky's "The Holy Mountain". I dunno if it's necessarily
surreal, but it's definitely abstract...

And on a side note, go see "Amélie"! It's a love story created by the same
directors who made City of Lost Children and Delicatessen, with the same
fantasy edge, but none of the apolocalypse. ;O)

Optigon

"Ventolin" <vent...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:8PbU7.173294$WW.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Celluloid Floyd]

Dusan Makavejev's Sweet Movie is too sweet (pardon the pun)!

"Arggh! Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! Arggh!"

[Michael Livsey]

Sam Rouse <sama...@newsguy.com> wrote in message

> I have to say that I'm still figuring out the point of the story, even
though I
> wrote it.

I tip my hat to you Sir, a true artist.