General Surrealist Books?

[Jeremy Clark]

Hey,
I was just curious if anyone could give me a suggestion for a book or
two on surrealism. Ideally color photos of art, and lots of
information. I'm hoping to give my girlfriend an awesome book on
surrealism for christmas so any help would be greatly apprecieated.
Cheers,
Jeremy

[Black Barrel-25]

I'm going very quick here: The best books are all scarce and out of print
like vvv or the Phases movement publication;Neon; etc Beyond Painting by
Max Ernst; Conquest of the irrational by Dali (his early writings are
cool). A real cheapy but good source is Lucy Lippards 'Surrealists on
Art' . The surrealists themselves would probably point to the Chicago
Group (Franklin Rosemont) and their books. I prefer the old scarce stuff.
Good Luck! go for enchantment and the wonders of the marvelous and be
happy!

Jeremy Clark wrote:

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[john adams]

"Black Barrel-25" <rrs...@transbay.net> wrote in message news:3BEB2FDF...@transbay.net...

> I'm going very quick here: The best books are all scarce and out of print
> like vvv or the Phases movement publication;Neon; etc Beyond Painting by
> Max Ernst; Conquest of the irrational by Dali (his early writings are
> cool). A real cheapy but good source is Lucy Lippards 'Surrealists on
> Art' . The surrealists themselves would probably point to the Chicago
> Group (Franklin Rosemont) and their books. I prefer the old scarce stuff.
> Good Luck! go for enchantment and the wonders of the marvelous and be
> happy!

Another one is Sarane Alexandrian's 'Surrealist Art' published in 1969,
with plenty of illustrations and historical surrealist commentary to go alongside.

[kuku]

Theres an antique shop in that town by morrow bay, cyucos i think its
called.. yea cyuocos... or something like that... anyways they have a copy
of this great dali book, forget what its called but they have it upstairs in
the back room farthest from the upstairs window that overlook the street.
the book is a great big hardcover and is full color through out with nice
glossy pages etcetra i think they were charging $75 the last time i was
there, which was this past summer. i am pretty sure they still have the
book. if your in california i would reccomend a trip to cyuocos and take a
look through their anitque shops, theres only like three or four and they
are right in a row, and theres a good pizza place in town anyways. i would
of bought the book myself but i instead choose to buy some old editions of
alice in wonderland. good luck with the hunt for your snark fuck boy.

"Jeremy Clark" <kralc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:972ff68e.01110...@posting.google.com...

[Morpheal]

kuku wrote:

> of this great dali book, forget what its called but they have it upstairs in the back room farthest from the upstairs window that overlook the street. the book is a great big hardcover and is full color through out with nice glossy pages etcetra i think they were charging $75 the last time

I paid $80 for it, new, in Philadephia at The Museum of Art.

Seems a long haul only to save $5.

M.

[Black Barrel-25]

If you really want to trip on AVIDA DOLLARS try 'This Quarter Surrealist number September 1932. I bought minzzes for 30.00 and piss on the rest of his crap . I'm not trying to be surrealist here but rather pointing out his worthy stuff from his pretentious post-1932. Dali went in for banal
bizzare eccentricism in later years after his Minotaur period. If you want to get into someone that is not officially surrealist but uses some of the techniques . Try Paul Laffolay. The whole trip in surrealism is the poetic spirit and how that is managed in LIFE. Everything is in a state of
flux;- science is now art and visa versa and politics and ecology and its all about fucking with the mind literally fucking (SEX). I'm just playing. By the way I lova the Morrow Bay aera

Morpheal wrote:

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[Morpheal]

Black Barrel-25 wrote:

> If you really want to trip on AVIDA DOLLARS try 'This Quarter Surrealist number September 1932. I bought minzzes for 30.00 and piss on the rest of his crap . I'm not trying to be surrealist here but rather pointing out his worthy stuff from his pretentious post-1932. Dali went in for banal bizzare eccentricism in later years after his Minotaur period. If you want to get into someone that is not officially surrealist but uses some of the techniques .

Now, now, now.... down boy, down boy.....

Actually what Dali did WAS very surreal.
So was Picasso. At least as surreal.

However, you have to think about why someone
not as associated with surrealism as Dali was
could be referred to as surreal.

M.

[kuku]

Yes its too bad the tap ran dry for a few days. As Belle said, "Surrealist
tap run dry, milk it."
And I agree, I too love the Morro Bay area. As Mr. Balance said a few years
back, "God please fuck my mind for good!"

The little seeds.

"Black Barrel-25" <rrs...@transbay.net> wrote in message

news:3BF44FCE...@transbay.net...

[kuku]

I think the associative reasoning has to do with the pigeonhole nature of
academic thinking. Everything is surreal, and yet who cares what we do in
the dark? I'm sure he does but who reads those kinds of books anyways...

"Morpheal" <morp...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BF47BF6...@sympatico.ca...

[Morpheal]

kuku wrote:

> I think the associative reasoning has to do with the pigeonhole nature of academic thinking.

No. It is about following authorities. That is what a properly footnoted
essay is about. It does not properly say anything new, but it reports
what the authorities have determined.

M.

[Dale Houstman]

"Morpheal" <morp...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BF47BF6...@sympatico.ca...
>
>

> However, you have to think about why someone
> not as associated with surrealism as Dali was
> could be referred to as surreal.
>

Do you get all your information from a moldy fortune cookie, or does it
crawl up your ass and lay eggs?

Dali was VERY associated with the surrealist group until 1937 or so, when
his increasing love of money and religion and self-promotion rendered him
unpalatable to the group as a whole. Even so, he continued to periodically
attempt rapproachment with the group and with Breton, who had once admired
him. The reason he is referred to as "surreal" is then two-fold: because he
encountered and was profoundly transformed by the surrealist process, and
because most people - including yourself - call many things "surreal"
without having a clue as to what the word might mean.

dmh

[Nikolaus Maack]

"Dale Houstman" (dm...@citilink.com) writes:
> Dali was VERY associated with the surrealist group until 1937 or so, when
> his increasing love of money and religion and self-promotion rendered him
> unpalatable to the group as a whole.

That's not entirely accurate. Dali didn't suddenly turn into a money
hungry, promotion obsessed, religious loony. He always was one. Breton
repeatedly overlooked Dali's excesses. Why? Because Dali was an amazing
artist, and got Surrealism a lot of useful attention. Breton, after all,
wanted to promote surrealism to others.

What finally pissed Breton off was a painting Dali did. The painting was
titled "The Enigma of William Tell", and it featured a caricature of
Lenin. This was too much, and there was a surrealist "trial" where Dali
was asked to explain his painting or suffer the consequences. Dali had a
wicked cold at the time, and still managed to turn the trial into a
wonderful farce.

Why a trial? At this point in time, the surrealists were communism
obsessed. Anyone who dared disagree with communist ideology was booted
out on their ass. That Dali dared to openly mock communism (assuming "The
Enigma of William Tell" was mocking) was too much for Breton. Thus Dali
was kicked out.

Or, that is, Dali had himself kicked out. In one of his many biographies,
he talks about how this break was inevitable. Dali is for Dali, and no
one else.

Nik

--
Currently Reading:
"Triangles" by Andrea Newman
"How to Use Your Eyes" by James Elkins
"The Complete Stories" by Franz Kafka

[kuku]

To memory it will stand for quite some time that Dali left the Surrealists""
after having to high of a tempature. The trial was Dali came in and had
thermometer. If it was too high or low or whatever he decided was the final
thing, He would have to go. Dali was alot like Harpo, in fact I look forward
to reading that screenplay he drew for him one day. Does anyone remember
what its called? I know Harpo never made it into a movie but still...

In the infamous words of Harpo.. "You'll do the talking not me... HONK
HONK."

And beyond that Communism is boring. Stop talking about you fucking RED!!!

"Nikolaus Maack" <ac...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:9t349d$fjr$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...

[Nikolaus Maack]

"kuku" (hiai...@earthlink.net) writes:
> And beyond that Communism is boring. Stop talking about you fucking
> RED!!!

Communism is boring. Unfortunately, many surrealists in the past, and
even today, see surrealism and communism as solidly linked together.
Seperating the two is a difficult process. Even when surrealists don't
praise communism, they use language that pays tribute to it. Talk of
surrealists working as a united group, putting forward a single political
message, keeping surrealism defined very tightly -- this kind of emphasis
underlines the communist roots of surrealism.

Keeping surrealism linked to communism is like tying your foot to a
sinking ocean liner.

Nik

--
Currently Reading:
"Triangles" by Andrea Newman

[kuku]

In alt.surrealism Morpheal(cit.1), wrote of many things. There were days we
thought he never would write again but then he described to us the meaning
of school, the essence of education(cit. 2). For us it was gal-a-day.

Best,
J.

Citations.
---------
1. morp...@sympatico.ca , the electronym pronounced in Full.
2."It is about following authorities. That is what a properly footnoted

[kuku]

Amen to that. It's hard to find sinking oceanliners these days anyways.
There's some story this idiot wrote about a guy who's lost at sea and when
he gives up hope he lets himself sink to the bottome of the ocean and lo and
behold he finds a sunk oceanliner so he regains hope, swims back to the top
of the water and then swims back down over and over. In the story the sunk
ship becomes a metaphor for God, or more precisely a Savior. Now that I
think about it, that's just what communism needs, a sinking ocean liner. Tie
my foot and let me out. Who would save surrealism, would it be Babs Santini
or Steven Stapleton. No idea, but thanks for your thoughts. I agree that it
is a lot nicer talking to a lot of other people who can speak in whatever
form they choose. Like the whirlygig. As a surrealist, if that means
anything, I don communism with a nice plastic napkin and sell it on the
holidays. I'd rather work in my own little garden then with the rest of you.

Best,
J.

"Nikolaus Maack" <ac...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message

news:9t393s$mdi$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...

[Parry]

The one essential book on this subject would I think be Breton’s
“Surrealism and Painting.” But it’s really a text book, and not as
visually impressive as you may want. The few prints were in b&w as I
recall.

I can easily picture the book I believe you want -- a real fat book
crammed with colour prints -- though I’ve never seen such a thing. If it
does exist, its cost would be astronomical.

Instead of one big book, you might put together a collection of
miniature books. There have been some nice series of inexpensive art
books to draw upon.

For instance the series published by Leon Amiel (New York). These books
are hard cover, about 6”x7”, full of colour plates and biographical
information. Relevant volumes are Dalí, Ernst, Magritte, Miró and
Picasso -- also Bosch and Bruegel.

Also, I’ve a neat little book called “Peinture surrèaliste 1940-1970,”
soft cover, about 4”x6”, slim, with 15 colour prints. Little text, but a
neat book. It’s #103 of a series by Parisian publisher ABC, “Petite
encyclopédie de l’art.” Other volumes in the series include Arp, Braque,
Dada, Dalí, De Chirico, Ernst, Magritte, Miró, Picasso, two other
volumes of surrealism, etc.

And you could add W.S. Burroughs’ miniature “Painting & Guns” as a
cherry on top. You might find these volumes through one of the used-book
search engines like http://www.abebooks.com/.

Also, there’s the publisher Taschen who put out many well-designed art
book in an affordable, soft cover magazine-size format. One series
includes Dalí, Ernst, Kahlo, Magritte, Miró, Picasso -- also
Arcimiboldo, Bosch, Bruegel. Taschen also has a good Giger book.

-- Parry

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[Dale Houstman]

"Parry" <pa...@perfectOMITmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BF580...@perfectOMITmail.com...

> Jeremy Clark wrote:
> >
> > Hey,
> > I was just curious if anyone could give me a suggestion for a book or
> > two on surrealism. Ideally color photos of art, and lots of
> > information. I'm hoping to give my girlfriend an awesome book on
> > surrealism for christmas so any help would be greatly apprecieated.
> > Cheers,
> > Jeremy
>
> The one essential book on this subject would I think be Breton's
> "Surrealism and Painting." But it's really a text book, and not as
> visually impressive as you may want. The few prints were in b&w as I
> recall.

I have it, and it does contain colored prints, although maybe not in the
abundance one is used to from most art books. And as for "lots of
information" I don't necessarily think Breton's rather poetic approach to
the subject of each painter's "position" is an ideal opening point for those
who would learn more on a prosaic level. It's beautiful and - yes-
essential, although - at least at my local library - it is not to be taken
out, so the prolonged engagement such a work demands will be difficult. I
finally purchased the damn thing (out of print) for an arm and a leg, and
even now I think I must have been temporarily insane to have used so much
money I don't have. Still, it's worth it I suppose.

But the original request seems to rely too much on the aura of
sensationalism, and I suppose only exploding heads and radiant soft watches
might fill that bill. A Dali volume from quite some years ago - a big
tasteless chocolate box of a tome - would most likely be the ticket in
terms of pure "oomph" power. There are a few small volumes of Hans Bellmer's
Dolls out, and they have their own shocking presence. And so on.

>
> I can easily picture the book I believe you want -- a real fat book
> crammed with colour prints -- though I've never seen such a thing. If it
> does exist, its cost would be astronomical.
>
> Instead of one big book, you might put together a collection of
> miniature books. There have been some nice series of inexpensive art
> books to draw upon.
>
> For instance the series published by Leon Amiel (New York). These books
> are hard cover, about 6"x7", full of colour plates and biographical
> information. Relevant volumes are Dalí, Ernst, Magritte, Miró and
> Picasso -- also Bosch and Bruegel.
>
> Also, I've a neat little book called "Peinture surrèaliste 1940-1970,"
> soft cover, about 4"x6", slim, with 15 colour prints. Little text, but a
> neat book. It's #103 of a series by Parisian publisher ABC, "Petite
> encyclopédie de l'art." Other volumes in the series include Arp, Braque,
> Dada, Dalí, De Chirico, Ernst, Magritte, Miró, Picasso, two other
> volumes of surrealism, etc.
>
> And you could add W.S. Burroughs' miniature "Painting & Guns" as a
> cherry on top. You might find these volumes through one of the used-book
> search engines like http://www.abebooks.com/.
>
> Also, there's the publisher Taschen who put out many well-designed art
> book in an affordable, soft cover magazine-size format. One series
> includes Dalí, Ernst, Kahlo, Magritte, Miró, Picasso -- also
> Arcimiboldo, Bosch, Bruegel. Taschen also has a good Giger book.
>

The Magritte is a gem; one of my favorite volumes. What I am amazed by is
how often paintings I never knew existed - by Magritte - keep popping up in
this or that publication. Very prolific fellow, our Rene.

dmh

[Black Barrel-25]

'A House of Her Own' KAY SAGE Solitary Surrealist. A very beautiful book.
Probably the most impressive recent book on Surrealist Art. Surreal to me
personally
since its feeling and tone resemble some of my own dreams, unique as she is in
her
own style (very similar to Tanguy, her husband..very strange).
As an added note. I believe that we all can 'believe' or even create multiple
'realities' that can
coexist and even conflict with each other within ourselves. That concept of an
increasing
number of belief systems within our minds is a POSTMODERN thought.

Dale Houstman wrote:

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[john adams]

"Nikolaus Maack" <ac...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message news:9t349d$fjr$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...

A bit of a weak analysis here. To say they were "communism obsessed"
is also inaccurate, as much as to say anyone who disagreed with communist
ideology was booted out on their ass (more accurate to say anyone who was
a fascist or die hard capitalist would have been booted on their ass. But they
had already broken with the french communist party by 1935).

[Black Barrel-25]

I'm replying myself here:
How about a book made by yourself!
A book about a computer program written in C composed in your dreams
A thousand paged Haiku poem with pictures only
A word poem based on thoughts you precieve from other people
( for example walk up to someone and project a though , write down the
response, blow it up or make it miniscule. Place a nineteenth century
engravaving of a Fly's eye next to the thoughts written down)
Talk to a Dog! Many Dogs in Dreams
Make a FLASH (macromedia flash) diary. make a book out of it
make a speech in mathematical equations like the surface area of a
Klien bottle redone in liquid.
A book for myself

[john adams]

"Black Barrel-25" <rrs...@transbay.net> wrote in message news:3BF5CE02...@transbay.net...

> I'm replying myself here:
> How about a book made by yourself!
> A book about a computer program written in C composed in your dreams
> A thousand paged Haiku poem with pictures only
> A word poem based on thoughts you precieve from other people
> ( for example walk up to someone and project a though , write down the
> response, blow it up or make it miniscule. Place a nineteenth century
> engravaving of a Fly's eye next to the thoughts written down)
> Talk to a Dog! Many Dogs in Dreams
> Make a FLASH (macromedia flash) diary. make a book out of it
> make a speech in mathematical equations like the surface area of a
> Klien bottle redone in liquid.
> A book for myself

Sounds good. How about a sonogram of rymed verse
under an aquarium of infinite water levels; what about a collage
chosen using your street address and birthdate numbers, etc in relation to
images shot at using arrows in the dark. How about the placing of hands
used to derive automatic text from your partner, or capturing the sounds of
an undisclosed location with a tape recorder and later incorporating them
into a poem or drawing perhaps while in trance (the sound of a whisping
tree could mirror that of a breath of only so many vowels in your stride).

[kuku]

Amen. W. S. Burroughs is the only interesting painter of the last few
hundred years. With the exception perhaps of Babs Santini. Uncle Bill put
out a few good books of his art, as well some of his later writtings feature
his work on the cover. Burroughs ,as they, was "the only compleat man in the
industry". Squares on both sides, fuck em all. Books of art prints cost too
much. Why not just buy your "girlfriend" a copy of My Alphabet by T. Brown.
I know his artwork sucks but its still boring as any other book for god's
sake. Paint the damn picture yourself and show her what surrealism really
is. Paint it on her chest and tear up her favorite novel, bring her a box of
dollars, sand dollars, all with miniture paintings of GOD on them. Sing her
"everyone says I love you". That is true surrealism. PILOT K-9 YOU ARE CUT
OFF>>> RETURN TO BASE >>> RIDE MUSIC BEAM BACK TO BASE >>> TOWERS OPEN FIRE

"Parry" <pa...@perfectOMITmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BF580...@perfectOMITmail.com...

[Black Barrel-25]

Burroughs painting is shit compared to his 'THIRD MIND' collage novels. The
'THIRD MIND'
is a series of home made collage novel books that are the Best things he did as
is Jackson Pollocks
psychoanaylitical drawings being the best to Pollock Trevor Browns sugar
coated transgressions
are like a box of chocolates, tasty but fattening sort of like a infantile
surrealist..

kuku wrote:

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[kuku]

and Do y? Maybe cheap. copies of whirlygig and artvanda my first album or
even a litwell as remember it being quite burroughs audio tape, experiI
gysins third mind collaboration which i havent seen since i was eleven. the
book thoughou have a copy, one of those books that makes you want to do
something and actually do iwould . thats the point anyways, cosey. we could
work out a trade, I mean a xeroxed trade. Something tle painting. i mind
collage novel. from what i had heard these were either lost or just rumors
to begin love to see his third t.cut upl or even send you a copy of books,
burn music, cut up could xerox some mentwith beyond gysins book of the same
name, as

"Black Barrel-25" <rrs...@transbay.net> wrote in message

news:3BF5F35A...@transbay.net...

[kuku]

And how bout, how bout... how about.. how about.... and how about ... and
how about... and... and, and... how... about.... about, how... and, about...
how about, how about..... and well, how about... how about....and how
about... and how about, how about....

"john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%MkJ7.47229$S4.42...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[john adams]

Good stuff Kuku, let's keep it up, our shiney new star of
golden wilted corners

"kuku" <hiai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:vRmJ7.47452$hZ.45...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[john adams]

At this point we lost you in the cut-up machine...

"kuku" <hiai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:UMmJ7.47445$hZ.45...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[kuku]

And alas I wonder what ever became of me.

"john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:P4nJ7.47599$S4.43...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[kuku]

Why thank you my good man, and with that I bid you ado. But what if that
wasnt it? What if I really was your mothers sister, what if I feel in love
and couldnt tell you. Tell me then, why am I so good. For I never listen,
and never will. All your tall tales get wound up in a bottle of yarn, wine
drinking and all that nonsense. Tell your friends I won't be over for dinner
tonight, I m bringing turkey.

"john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:o2nJ7.47594$S4.43...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Black Barrel-25]

Its sounds like you had som black barrel!!!!

kuku wrote:

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[Black Barrel-25]

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

.................................................
................................................................................

........................ ................................
................................
............................... .....................................
...................................
time has come today

kuku wrote:

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[Dale Houstman]

"Nikolaus Maack" <ac...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:9t349d$fjr$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...

> "Dale Houstman" (dm...@citilink.com) writes:
> > Dali was VERY associated with the surrealist group until 1937 or so,
when
> > his increasing love of money and religion and self-promotion rendered
him
> > unpalatable to the group as a whole.
>
> That's not entirely accurate. Dali didn't suddenly turn into a money
> hungry, promotion obsessed, religious loony. He always was one.

I think if you'll take your eyes out of your ass, you will see the word
"increasing." no doubt Dali had the potential for greed all along, but he
certainly subsumed it well beneath Socialist ideals before 1937. He in fact
encouraged the other surrealists to be more political in detain
publications. As for his religious ideas: before he was a dull Catholic he
spent a good amount of time manufacturing blasphemies. He probably did this
as a way of escaping a tendency toward religious slavery, but -
nevertheless - he did it.

>Breton
> repeatedly overlooked Dali's excesses. Why? Because Dali was an amazing
> artist, and got Surrealism a lot of useful attention. Breton, after all,
> wanted to promote surrealism to others.

This is partly true. Breton also overlooked Dali's excesses because Dali
kept assuring him that they all had a basis in his perverse desire, and
represented various aspects of humor, and so on. Also - to be honest -
Breton liked the guy. Dali could be very charming.

>
> What finally pissed Breton off was a painting Dali did. The painting was
> titled "The Enigma of William Tell", and it featured a caricature of
> Lenin. This was too much, and there was a surrealist "trial" where Dali
> was asked to explain his painting or suffer the consequences. Dali had a
> wicked cold at the time, and still managed to turn the trial into a
> wonderful farce.

You make the same mistake you accused me (incorrectly) of: the "pissing off"
was not a sudden break, but a slow process. There were many reasons the
break came, and - in fact - there were several "making ups."

>
> Why a trial? At this point in time, the surrealists were communism
> obsessed.

An overstatement, and you know it. Breton always insisted that surrealism
maintain an antonymous position, and this led to fracture from the start.
Breton was never a "good commie.' A few surrealists (most notoriously
Aragon) were. The surrealist as a group were mainly interested in communism
as a vehicle for liberation. They were mostly quite aware of the flaws in
the particular Stalinist manifestation from the outset, and this awareness
blossomed quite quickly into disavowal and retreat.

>Anyone who dared disagree with communist ideology was booted
> out on their ass.

Not true. There were many rather non-political surrealists who simply
remained non-political and also surrealists.

>That Dali dared to openly mock communism (assuming "The
> Enigma of William Tell" was mocking) was too much for Breton. Thus Dali
> was kicked out.

A vast over-simplification.

>
> Or, that is, Dali had himself kicked out. In one of his many biographies,
> he talks about how this break was inevitable. Dali is for Dali, and no
> one else.

Then it is strange that he made so many overtures (rejected) to Breton for a
rapproachment, don't you think? The last one came rather late in his life,
and Andre's rejection supposedly devastated him. Dali must be amongst the
neediest of men, and was never "for himself" unless you mean his narcissism.
Dali was desperate to be wanted. As for Dali's biographies - well - Dali is
a notorious liar, and admittedly so. His biographies while at times vastly
amusing, aren't reliable. Breton kicked Dali out long after Dali wasted his
talents and promise on garbage and affluence and the pursuit of celebrity.
Breton showed more forbearance than I could muster.

dmh

[Nik Maack]

john adams wrote:
> A bit of a weak analysis here. To say they were "communism obsessed"
> is also inaccurate, as much as to say anyone who disagreed with communist
> ideology was booted out on their ass (more accurate to say anyone who was
> a fascist or die hard capitalist would have been booted on their ass. But
> they had already broken with the french communist party by 1935).

Sorry. Let me rephrase: anyone who disagreed with André Breton's
particular take on communism was kicked out of the surrealist group.
Earlier and later, anyone who disagreed with Breton's take on ANYTHING
was booted from the group. He was a petty tyrant in many ways, and ran
the surrealist cause like it was his personal fan club.

The communist party's representatives in France could not comprehend why
the surrealists thought they had something to contribute to the
communist party. And yet Breton kept trying to forge some kind of
alliance between the two groups.

The communists saw the surrealists as pretentious, bourgeois twits,
unable to do hard work. What possible contribution could they make to
the communist cause? And why would the surrealists have to remain their
own autonomous group? Why couldn't they just dissolve their group,
become communists, and that would be the end of it?

Breton spun some interesting bafflegab that kept the communists at bay,
insisting that surrealists could remain autonomous and contribute to
communism at the same time. Why did the commies accept this? Some
suggest it was because the surrealists were very popular, and any
attention they brought to communism was considered a good thing.

Eventually the ties between the two groups dissolved, mainly because the
communists were totally confused by surrealism, and saw no connection
between it and communism. So they told the surrealists to fuck off.
This upset Breton, somewhat. It seemed to irritate him that so few
people understood what surrealism was, even though he himself changed
the criteria for being a member of the "surrealist party" almost daily.

Thus Breton was constantly purging the group of "traitors" -- meaning
anyone who disagreed with what Breton said.

Nik

[Nik Maack]

Dale Houstman wrote:

Why is it Dale only shows up for the debates, and never for the poetry?

> As for his religious ideas: before he was a dull Catholic he
> spent a good amount of time manufacturing blasphemies. He probably did this
> as a way of escaping a tendency toward religious slavery, but -
> nevertheless - he did it.

It's my understanding that Dali was always fascinated with religious
symbolism. He liked it when he mocked it, and he liked it when he
embraced it. I think many would say he mocked it when he embraced it --
portraying his wife as Jesus at the last supper, for example.

> >Anyone who dared disagree with communist ideology was booted
> > out on their ass.
>
> Not true. There were many rather non-political surrealists who simply
> remained non-political and also surrealists.

All right, how about I phrase it slightly differently: Breton kicked
out people based on whimsy and temper tantrums.

> >That Dali dared to openly mock communism (assuming "The
> > Enigma of William Tell" was mocking) was too much for Breton. Thus Dali
> > was kicked out.
>
> A vast over-simplification.

Not entirely. This was the straw that broke the camel's spine. There
was a "trial" held because of the Lenin painting. This was what
resulted in talk of booting Dali into the street.

> Then it is strange that he made so many overtures (rejected) to Breton for a
> rapproachment, don't you think?

It is. Dali himself says in one of his autobiographies that he saw
Breton as a father figure that he had to get rid of. Maybe he wished to
reconcile the break he made. Dali was (being a Freudian) somewhat
obsessed with his own childhood.

> Dali must be amongst the
> neediest of men, and was never "for himself" unless you mean his narcissism.
> Dali was desperate to be wanted.

Dali was for himself when it came to his own art. Yes, it was all to
garner the attention of the world, but even as he cried from the
rooftops, "Love me! Love me!" he always did it in his own inimitable way.

But yes, he was incredibly needy and openly admitted this. He claims he
deliberately threw himself down flights of stairs because he knew it
would get people's attention. This is definitely someone who was
desperate to be loved.

> As for Dali's biographies - well - Dali is
> a notorious liar, and admittedly so. His biographies while at times vastly
> amusing, aren't reliable.

An autobiography is an attempt to look back at a life of random disorder
and assemble it into a straight line of cause and effect. All
biographies are lies.

I recommend the book "Confessions of a Dangerous Mind". It's an
autobiography by Chuck Barris. He talks about making "The Gong Show"
and "The Dating Game" and all his wonderful work. He also talks about
being a CIA hitman, eliminating targets across Europe, using his TV
producer role for cover.

There is a movie being made of the book, or so the Internet tells me.

> Breton kicked Dali out long after Dali wasted his
> talents and promise on garbage and affluence and the pursuit of celebrity.
> Breton showed more forbearance than I could muster.

Ah, but you were never subjected to Dali's charm, and presumably that
makes all the difference.

Nik

[Parry]

The book appears rarer than I thought. An Abebooks search turned up only
one copy for sale. Too cheap to buy it, I’ll have to enjoy the book only
through my defective memory. The local library’s copy went missing years
ago. The library’s adult collection is now mainly all the books nobody
thought were worth stealing.

> But the original request seems to rely too much on the aura of
> sensationalism, and I suppose only exploding heads and radiant soft watches
> might fill that bill. A Dali volume from quite some years ago - a big
> tasteless chocolate box of a tome - would most likely be the ticket in
> terms of pure "oomph" power.

Now that I think of it, a better gift than a book could be a bottle of
the Dalí perfume. It’s a great scent and comes in a nose-shaped bottle
that the genius must have designed on his deathbed in between signing
his name to blank lithographs. I don't think it’s sold in North America
anymore but it can still be ordered from Europe.

> There are a few small volumes of Hans Bellmer's
> Dolls out, and they have their own shocking presence. And so on.

I wouldn’t mind having a big, disgusting book of surrealist paintings,
wrapped in a heat-sensitive skin that changes colour and glows in the
dark. The best overview I have is one called “Surrealism” by Uwe M.
Schneede, but I wish it had about twice as many pages.

[snip]

> > Also, there's the publisher Taschen who put out many well-designed art
> > book in an affordable, soft cover magazine-size format. One series
> > includes Dalí, Ernst, Kahlo, Magritte, Miró, Picasso -- also
> > Arcimiboldo, Bosch, Bruegel. Taschen also has a good Giger book.
>
> The Magritte is a gem; one of my favorite volumes. What I am amazed by is
> how often paintings I never knew existed - by Magritte - keep popping up in
> this or that publication. Very prolific fellow, our Rene.

Taschen’s stuff is high-quality and quite cheap; books meant to be
enjoyed rather than just weigh down a coffee table. Haven’t seen the
Magritte one, though.

[john adams]

"Nik Maack" <nikm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3BF67BB7...@sympatico.ca...

>
>
> john adams wrote:
> > A bit of a weak analysis here. To say they were "communism obsessed"
> > is also inaccurate, as much as to say anyone who disagreed with communist
> > ideology was booted out on their ass (more accurate to say anyone who was
> > a fascist or die hard capitalist would have been booted on their ass. But
> > they had already broken with the french communist party by 1935).
>
> Sorry. Let me rephrase: anyone who disagreed with André Breton's
> particular take on communism was kicked out of the surrealist group.

I'd have to disagree with that gross generalization. Try again?

> Earlier and later, anyone who disagreed with Breton's take on ANYTHING
> was booted from the group. He was a petty tyrant in many ways, and ran
> the surrealist cause like it was his personal fan club.

Oh come on, that's ridiculous. There were a lot of debates and disagreements:
not everyone who attended and disagreed were instantly booted.

> The communist party's representatives in France could not comprehend why
> the surrealists thought they had something to contribute to the
> communist party. And yet Breton kept trying to forge some kind of
> alliance between the two groups.
>
> The communists saw the surrealists as pretentious, bourgeois twits,
> unable to do hard work. What possible contribution could they make to
> the communist cause? And why would the surrealists have to remain their
> own autonomous group? Why couldn't they just dissolve their group,
> become communists, and that would be the end of it?

Exactly, and hence this is part of where the conflict arose. The party
desired to preside over the activities of the surrealist group - using art
and poetry for strictly political means - and suppressing that which
they felt wasn't in alignment with their goals and the appearance they
wished to maintain in the political sphere.

[john adams]

"kuku" <hiai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:uOnJ7.47508$hZ.45...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> Why thank you my good man, and with that I bid you ado. But what if that
> wasnt it? What if I really was your mothers sister, what if I feel in love
> and couldnt tell you. Tell me then, why am I so good. For I never listen,
> and never will. All your tall tales get wound up in a bottle of yarn, wine
> drinking and all that nonsense. Tell your friends I won't be over for dinner
> tonight, I m bringing turkey.

That would be great

[john adams]

Another footprint in the lonely fields

"kuku" <hiai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:2LnJ7.47504$hZ.45...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Andrew Octopus]

http://andrew_octopus.tripod.com/theoddityfactory/index.html

*****************
space out. eat more art.
http://andrew_octopus.tripod.com/theoddityfactory/index.html
http://www.creativegoals.com/linksfromhome/andrew/andrew.htm

[Dale Houstman]

"cythera" <cyt...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:fadef76.01111...@posting.google.com...

> Black Barrel-25 <rrs...@transbay.net> wrote in message

news:<3BF5C70D...@transbay.net>...

> > 'A House of Her Own' KAY SAGE Solitary Surrealist. A very beautiful
book.
> > Probably the most impressive recent book on Surrealist Art. Surreal to
me
> > personally since its feeling and tone resemble some of my own dreams,
> > unique as she is in her
> > own style (very similar to Tanguy, her husband..very strange).
> > As an added note. I believe that we all can 'believe' or even create
multiple
> > 'realities' that can
> > coexist and even conflict with each other within ourselves.
>
> > That concept of an increasing number of belief systems within our minds
> > is a POSTMODERN thought.
>

> Could you elaborate, please?
>
>
> I think that the idea that we experience reality as multiple, co-existing
> and sometimes conflicting realities is present in surrealism -- in various
> paintings of Rene Magritte for instance -- but am I correct in supposing
> that postmodernism as a philosophy does not posit a need for
reconciliation
> of the "opposing realities"?
>
> For example, whereas Magritte within a painting depicts the reality as
> both opposing _and_ reconciled, some of the poetry and lit I have read
that
> (I suppose) could be called postmodern seems to leave the reader as well
as
> the protagonist stranded, so to speak, just holding a lot of loose ends,
> suggesting that reality is open-ended. It also seems to be at least
somewhat
> nihilistic.
>
> cythera.
>

This is true: Post-modernism is - in some ways - a form of intellectual
resignation in the face of too much information.

dmh

[Morpheal]

Nik Maack wrote:

> Why is it Dale only shows up for the debates, and never for the poetry?

Dale has a logical mind. Dale is not crazy. Dale knows how
to use language, without obscuring anything, stating everything clearly
and concisely. The only sad thing in all that is his name. D'ale, D'ail.
It's all drunken and sick sounding. Despite it's inherent logic.

M.

[Dale Houstman]

"Morpheal" <morp...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BF9C0B3...@sympatico.ca...

Dale is actually a rather nice geological name, and - for everyone except
the morbid - conjures up images of pleasant and pretty valleys filled with
secretly-abused girls and boys plotting the murders of their parents, as a
church bell rings in the background, and war marries drunkedness to give
birth to whoredom.

dmh

[Nik Maack]

Dale Houstman wrote:
> Dale is actually a rather nice geological name, and - for everyone except
> the morbid - conjures up images of pleasant and pretty valleys filled with
> secretly-abused girls and boys plotting the murders of their parents, as a
> church bell rings in the background, and war marries drunkedness to give
> birth to whoredom.

I tend to think of Chippendales and male strippers who grease their
throbbing muscles with cancer-causing ointments. The muscles are
actually cancerous tumors. The irony of sex crazed housewives sexually
aroused by cancer amuses me.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with you, Dale. Sorry about that.

Nik

[kuku]

Ah yes, the lonely fields. Wandering all alone with the lonely widow.
Picking daisies in the flowerbed of life, thinking foolishly about how we
are going to milk the cows, and the sunset, the beautiful sunset.

"john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:PCEJ7.49059$S4.45...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[kuku]

yes, isnt it a great story. I liked the part when you
wrote"......................................................................
............................................................................
............................................................................
............................................................................
...............". but I didnt quite agree with
"..........................................", maybe if I understood where
you were coming from a bit more.

...................,
j

"Black Barrel-25" <rrs...@transbay.net> wrote in message

news:3BF62BE0...@transbay.net...
>
............................................................................
............................................................................
............................................................................
............................................................................
................
>
> .................................................
>
............................................................................

[kuku]

It sure does.

"Black Barrel-25" <rrs...@transbay.net> wrote in message

news:3BF62B45...@transbay.net...

[john adams]

That's right, my poor dandelion uprooted on its side, you once
told me we were foolish to believe in the beautiful sunsets who widow the
cows and milk the moon who has no eyes. Your comments felt ever
true, but at long last empty, oh perilous kuku.

"kuku" <hiai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:tRHK7.1787$5X4.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Brandon Freels]

John, how do you do it?

"john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:%qIK7.2221$lg5.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Nik Maack]

kuku wrote:
>
> Ah yes, the lonely fields. Wandering all alone with the lonely widow.
> Picking daisies in the flowerbed of life, thinking foolishly about how we
> are going to milk the cows, and the sunset, the beautiful sunset.

I want to milk the
sunset and drink its warm milk
from a chipped wine glass.

Nik

[Brandon Freels]

C

"john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:%h1L7.1855$oF.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> But no, I'm not kuku.
>
> Or am I?
>
> No.
>
> Perhaps you mean I am "Coockoo".
>
> We're clearly two different entities, anyway. One who prefers the company
of angels,
> the other one leans towards that of mysterious demons.
>
> This princess of demons I have yet to see, like you, but have had several
brutal nightmares
> since the twin towers which seem to indicate I am truly being haunted (or
hunted?).
>
> Of course I have my guesses, but I must pretend, and go along for the time
being, for
> one day everything will be revealed yet until then we must play in the
lair of the savage pun
> (little as it is my choice).
>
> Until then, please voice your grievances to the sweet princess of demons,
whom I
> both abhor and adore, but shall never truly escape.
>
> "Brandon Freels" <b.j.f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:sC0L7.120927$WW.76...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > kuku?

> >
> > "john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> > news:xSYK7.1314$oF.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > > I don't know, as soon as you feel like informing me of what you're
> > > on to this time, I 'll let you know. Sound like a fair deal?
> > >
> > > "Brandon Freels" <b.j.f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > > news:YJIK7.178240$3d2.7...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Brandon Freels]

kuku?

"john adams" <johnqa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:xSYK7.1314$oF.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> I don't know, as soon as you feel like informing me of what you're
> on to this time, I 'll let you know. Sound like a fair deal?
>
> "Brandon Freels" <b.j.f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:YJIK7.178240$3d2.7...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[john adams]

Why don't we try hand signals.

"Brandon Freels" <b.j.f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:sC0L7.120927$WW.76...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[john adams]

But no, I'm not kuku.

Or am I?

No.

Perhaps you mean I am "Coockoo".

We're clearly two different entities, anyway. One who prefers the company of angels,
the other one leans towards that of mysterious demons.

This princess of demons I have yet to see, like you, but have had several brutal nightmares
since the twin towers which seem to indicate I am truly being haunted (or hunted?).

Of course I have my guesses, but I must pretend, and go along for the time being, for
one day everything will be revealed yet until then we must play in the lair of the savage pun
(little as it is my choice).

Until then, please voice your grievances to the sweet princess of demons, whom I
both abhor and adore, but shall never truly escape.

"Brandon Freels" <b.j.f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:sC0L7.120927$WW.76...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Morpheal]

john adams wrote:

> We're clearly two different entities, anyway. One who prefers the company of angels, the other one leans towards that of mysterious demons.

Real demons they are likely not. Real demons have one's pleasures and
enjoyments, at least traditionally, in mind. Real demons do not counsel
mortification and demise of the pleasures of the flesh. Angels on the
other hand counsel the latter, at least traditionally. Thou shalt never
enjoy anything that ye enjoy might easily be their motto and modus
operendi. So at the very least, if you want to believe in YOUR demons,
John, you have to agree that they have been co-opted and subverted and
are traitors to the demonic cause. A sad state of affairs or a sad
affair of state when even the demons have no loyalties.

> This princess of demons I have yet to see, like you, but have had several brutal nightmares since the twin towers which seem to indicate I am truly being haunted (or hunted?).

Complaints to be made to the management. The projectionist in the
theatre of the mind is not responsible for content.

> Of course I have my guesses, but I must pretend, and go along for the time being, for one day everything will be revealed yet until then we must play in the lair of the savage pun (little as it is my choice).

Puns are meant for punishment, of course. The pun as the lash, lashing
at the mind. It binds and it gashes across the psyche, leaving its
welts, until the punished learns to enjoy and to punish others once
loosed a little from those psychic bonds so as to use that newly
sharpened tongue far different from the mother language. Perhaps that is
what is truly meant as "the father tongue" rather than the "mother
tongue", though only in a traditional manner. Nowadays the mother tongue
might be even more of a lash than the father tongue amongst some. The
distinction might no longer be valid as to nurturing tongues and
punishing tongues or the distinction between the latter two being at all
kept clear. Similar to the distinction between love and "tough love"
having occluded something as thoroughly as would Newspeak.

Welcome to a brave new world.

I got my first computer in 1984. That was a dark portent. That same
machine caused.... everything to change. And it was only an xt with less
than 640K RAM, though I expanded it to 20 megs and 640K RAM. It acquired
its modem in (if I remember right) very early 1989. Oddly enough it was
an inspiration I would not have arrived at, to get a modem, purely on my
own. It was that whispering voice, of unknown origin... perhaps a demon.

> Until then, please voice your grievances to the sweet princess of demons, whom I both abhor and adore, but shall never truly escape.

I need one of those. A Princess of Demons. I desparately need one.

Robert Morpheal

[Morpheal]

> I want to milk the
> sunset and drink its warm milk
> from a chipped wine glass.

> > Then mixing warm milk
> > with fresh spilt blood,
> > to feel the quickening again.

> the lizard's white belly
> cool, smooth, still
> its eyes eaten by ants

After the dissection,
the milk white tube
inserted through an opening.

M.

[Morpheal]

cythera wrote:

> > I want to make a killum of the sunset and pour fresh milk over the stone crows in bondage who sink in a glass.

> >Careful now, or he will bind you in feathers, and seal you up with wax. Careful now or he will make of you an effigy of Icarus. Then sacrifice you to his hideously deformed and perverted son.

> They exist on the tongue of a cuckoo
> One a pimp
> The other for rent
> At odd hours they fly out the clock's door
> Yelling
> "Icarus
> Should have tried licorice"

Rice grains tumble from the frozen chimes. The pimp runs from out of one
door, then in through the other, chanting "licko, icko, chorus, ice,
licko, cori orifice, licko, licko, cori rice, licko, licko, ice". The
drag queen skeleton, in a wedding dress, races after him, with a bouquet
of dried crumbling flowers. Behind them a string of tin cans and a sign
that says "for rent" on one side and "tempus fugit" on the other side.

Robert Morpheal