Surrealism in Music...
Disturbed42
springs to mind, for me, is Beck. A brilliant musician, and his lyrics tend to
be very surreal...either with seeming free-association (that still manages to
give you a mental picture) or oddball stories...
I'll post some of his lyrics that exemplify what I'm talking about, here, for
you:
SATAN GAVE ME A TACO
Satan gave me a taco and it made me really sick
The chicken was all raw and the grease was mighty thick
The rice was all rancid and the beans were so hard
I was gettin' kinda dizzy eatin' all the lard
There was aphids on the lettuce an' I ate every one
An' after I was done the salsa melted off my tongue
Pieces of tortilla got stuck in my throat
An' the stains on my clothes burned a hole through my coat
My stomach was a-tremblin' and I broke out in a rash
I was so dry and thirsty and I didn't have no cash
So I went and found a hose, tore off all my clothes
Turned on the water and it shot right up my nose
Some old lady came along and she thought I was a freak
So she beat me with a handbag till I could hardly speak
I was lying there naked, my body badly bruised
In a pool of my own blood, unconscious and confused
Well, the cops came and got me and threw me in their van
And I woke up on the ceiling and I couldn't find my hand
They took me to the judge, his eyes a-glowin' red
The courtroom was filled with witches and the dead
Well, the sheriff was a hellhound with fangs and claws
The prisoners were tied up and chained to the walls
The air was gettin' thick; the smoke was gettin' thicker
The judge read the verdict: said, "Cut off his head!"
Well, they placed me on the altar, and they raised up the axe
My head was about to explode when I noticed the Marshall stacks
I noticed all the smoke machines, cameras and the lights
Some guy with a microphone, runnin' around dancin' in tights
And I noticed the crew and the band playin' down below
And I realized I was in a rock video
So I went and joined the band
And I went out on tour
And I smoked a lot of heroin
And I passed out in manure
I made out with the groupies
(Come on here)
Started fires backstage
(Oh, yeah, started 'em all)
Made a lot of money
(Oh, yeah, I'm makin' it)
And I gave it all away
(Give it all to me)
Well, the band got killed
(Ah, bunch of losers)
So I started a solo career
(Aha, yeah)
And I won all the awards
(Get 'em all now)
And I drank all the beer
(Drink it all up; get funky)
I opened up a taco stand
(Aha)
Just to smell the smell
(Oho)
Cookin' with the devil
fryin' down in hell
***
SEXX LAWS
Can't you hear those cavalry drums
Hijacking your equilibrium
Midnight hags in the mausoleum
Where the pixilated doctors moan
Carnivores in the Kowloon night
Breathing freon by the candlelight
Coquettes bitch slap you so polite
Till you thank them
For the tea and sympathy
I want to defy
The logic of all sex laws
Let the handcuffs slip off your wrists
I'll let you be my chaperone
At the halfway home
I'm a full grown man
But I'm not afraid to cry
Neptune's lips taste like fermented wine
Perfumed blokes on the Ginza line
Running buck wild like a concubine
Whose mother never held her hand
Brief encounters in Mercedes Benz
Wearing hepatitis contact lens
Bed and breakfast getaway weekends
With Sports Illustrated moms
I want to defy
The logic of all sex laws
Let the handcuffs slip off your wrists
I'll let you be my chaperone
At the halfway home
I'm a full grown man
But I'm not afraid to cry
Aidan Tynan
Disturbed42 wrote in message
<20001019205606...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
>Any musicians you call can think of with touches of surrealism?
Nurse with Wound
Throbbing Gristle
Meat Puppets
Can
Beck hasn't been good since Mellow Gold.
-Aidan
Disturbed42
>Throbbing Gristle
>Meat Puppets
>Can
>
>Beck hasn't been good since Mellow Gold.
>
>
>-Aidan
>
Nurse With Wound are certainly...interesting.
Throbbing Gristle...eh. Industrial gets old real fast.
Meat Puppets are a good band.
Can are definitely worth a listen. More out there than the VU.
I couldn't disagree with you more about Beck. His eclecticism is truly
something to behold. He's tackled grunge rock, insane hip-hop inflected
turntable rock, folk music and funk/soul all with the same aptitude and
prowess. He's a true prodigy, it seems, and he's consistently brilliant. He and
Bjork spent the 90's shaping music. I don't know what he'll do next, but I
can't wait.
Sven
Got to agree with you there. His lyrics have me in stitches, and the sheer
competence with which he attacks every new style is impressive. I have
respect for a man who doesn't have to have an agenda. Agendas in music are
tiresome things.
Steve McDonald
>>Nurse with Wound
>>Throbbing Gristle
>>Meat Puppets
>>Can
>>
>>Beck hasn't been good since Mellow Gold.
>>
>>
>>-Aidan
>>
>
>Nurse With Wound are certainly...interesting.
>Throbbing Gristle...eh. Industrial gets old real fast.
>Meat Puppets are a good band.
>Can are definitely worth a listen. More out there than the VU.
>
>I couldn't disagree with you more about Beck. His eclecticism is truly
>something to behold. He's tackled grunge rock, insane hip-hop inflected
>turntable rock, folk music and funk/soul all with the same aptitude and
>prowess. He's a true prodigy, it seems, and he's consistently brilliant. He and
>Bjork spent the 90's shaping music. I don't know what he'll do next, but I
>can't wait.
I'm 20 years older than Beck, but I think he's pretty darn talented.
Personally, I love "Jackass"...the one with the luscious Caribbean/
Latin flavor. -- Steve M, Atlanta-GA-USA
john adams
Sven wrote in message ...
>Disturbed42 wrote:
>
>>> Nurse with Wound
>>> Throbbing Gristle
>>> Meat Puppets
>>> Can
>>>
>>> Beck hasn't been good since Mellow Gold.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Aidan
>>>
>>
>> Nurse With Wound are certainly...interesting.
>> Throbbing Gristle...eh. Industrial gets old real fast.
>> Meat Puppets are a good band.
>> Can are definitely worth a listen. More out there than the VU.
>>
>> I couldn't disagree with you more about Beck. His eclecticism is truly
>> something to behold. He's tackled grunge rock, insane hip-hop inflected
>> turntable rock, folk music and funk/soul all with the same aptitude and
>> prowess. He's a true prodigy, it seems, and he's consistently brilliant.
He
>> and
>> Bjork spent the 90's shaping music. I don't know what he'll do next, but
I
>> can't wait.
Beck, and Bjork, shaped 90's music just like anyone else did in the world.
The degree of this alleged shaping, of course, is debatable.
I might throw in Big Country's later albums myself, just to cover all the
bases for the 90's.
john
Salamander
Disturbed42 <distu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001019205606...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
> Any musicians you call can think of with touches of surrealism?
Coil, who referenced surrealism directly in the liner notes on Scatology
their fist album. One member was in Throbbing Gristle but Coil sounds
entirely different and is not industrial music, they are more unique, often
highly polished in terms of production, and clearly commited to subversity.
They use many mistakes and glitches of equipment to build their pieces so
their method is somewhat surrealist. I recommend Stolen and Contaminated
Songs or The Angelic Conversation (soundtrack to a Derek Jahrman film).
Negativland, although more dadaist in my opinion, are amazing art terrorists
and masters of satirical humor. I love the weatherman and his whole family.
Yma Sumac, Songs of the Xtabay, an 'exotica' record from the fifties
features 'the Incan princess' imitating all the animals in the rainforest;
her voice to me combined with cheesy instrumentation is a mysterious surreal
juxtaposition. This is more of an oddity, but I had to throw it in.
Neutral Milk Hotel are charming utilizing theramin and bagpipes to enliven
an indie sound, with passionate surreal lyrics. My favorite and a record I
couldn't live without is In the Aeroplane Over the Sea.
Godspeed You Black Emperor, an ambient canadian orchestra, features found
sounds including voices from the underground world of poetry slams and
slowly majestic ambient pieces that ebb and flow orgasmically. New cd out
this month! Yay!
Disturbed42
>their fist album. One member was in Throbbing Gristle but Coil sounds
>entirely different and is not industrial music, they are more unique, often
>highly polished in terms of production, and clearly commited to subversity.
>They use many mistakes and glitches of equipment to build their pieces so
>their method is somewhat surrealist. I recommend Stolen and Contaminated
>Songs or The Angelic Conversation (soundtrack to a Derek Jahrman film).
The technique of utilizing "mistakes" has become almost mainstream at this
point, in certain genres.
>Negativland, although more dadaist in my opinion, are amazing art terrorists
>and masters of satirical humor. I love the weatherman and his whole family.
Hmm, I'll have to check them out.
>Neutral Milk Hotel are charming utilizing theramin and bagpipes to enliven
>an indie sound, with passionate surreal lyrics. My favorite and a record I
>couldn't live without is In the Aeroplane Over the Sea.
I definitely find them interesting.
>Godspeed You Black Emperor, an ambient canadian orchestra, features found
>sounds including voices from the underground world of poetry slams and
>slowly majestic ambient pieces that ebb and flow orgasmically. New cd out
>this month! Yay!
I absolutely adore Godspeed. They have influenced a whole group of musicians,
but none have yet touched what Godspeed has done. I have to be in a certain
mood for them, though, as their work has an inaccessibility at times, somewhat
like early Amon Tobin.
slate
We live like centipedes and die like wasps.
When it's all over, we lived like wasps and died in herds.
You are so sad, you glow.
Southeast Tyger River is swollen and all the divers were left there to die
Swimming in circles like lizards under blackened and swollen skies
They're nothing but cold little lemons
They're nothing but scared little mice
They're nothing but cold little lemons
Swimming back and forth under the ice
I called to tell you I am drowning
I called to say that I have drowned
The dirt around my feet can whisper
The dirt around here screams out loud
-Chokebore
Lyrically, I can think of no better example. All of their material is like
this. Musically, a slow, artsy, depressing punk band. They're quite good,
really.
"Disturbed42" <distu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001019205606...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
slate
imagine a 15+ minute droning ambience. Music that stealthily evolves in
unusual ways, over a length of time. A particular track by Namanax comes to
mind where sounds such a distant echoing laugh creeps into the soundscape
only to eventually leave, while other things are introduced. The beauty of
it is that for those who do not pay attention, the entire 'song' sounds as
though absolutely nothing has happened throughout the entire duration.
But, when it boils down to it, I think that sound is perhaps a difficult
area for surrealism to succeed in, since it is difficult to know what the
impossible sounds like, or to recognize it when one hears it (since the
surreal is ultimately ineffective if it cannot be recognized for what it
is).
It is difficult (but not impossible) for truly avante-garde music to exist
without addressing the conventions surrounding 'music'. And until you can
shake off those conventions, you will not truly succeed at the avante-garde.
In the end, one most likely winds up leaving the arena of music altogether
and delving into performance art (which is not a bad thing imho).
"slate" <street...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8tj9jp$nsa$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Disturbed42
>without addressing the conventions surrounding 'music'. And until you can
>shake off those conventions, you will not truly succeed at the avante-garde.
>In the end, one most likely winds up leaving the arena of music altogether
>and delving into performance art (which is not a bad thing imho).
But then you get into the ridiculousness of such albums as Lou Reed's METAL
MACHINE MUSIC.
Breton said: "The approval of the public is to be avoided like the plague. It
is absolutely essential to keep the public from entering if one wishes to avoid
confusion. I must add that the public must be kept panting in expectation..."
Which I tend to take to mean that one should write for himself, but not be
stupid. Evoke wonder or disgust, or both, but don't be banal.
john adams
Salamander wrote in message ...
>
>Disturbed42 <distu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20001019205606...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
>> Any musicians you call can think of with touches of surrealism?
>
>Coil, who referenced surrealism directly in the liner notes on Scatology
>their fist album. One member was in Throbbing Gristle but Coil sounds
>entirely different and is not industrial music, they are more unique, often
>highly polished in terms of production, and clearly commited to subversity.
>They use many mistakes and glitches of equipment to build their pieces so
>their method is somewhat surrealist. I recommend Stolen and Contaminated
>Songs or The Angelic Conversation (soundtrack to a Derek Jahrman film).
I bought this one a few years ago from a local pawnshop, being vaguely
familiar with the name.
I liked the various orchestrations of sounds and yammerings, but its
certainly a mood specific cd,
i felt (being a soundtrack and all). Constrastingly, if im feeling wild and
willy, i'll listen to the legedary stardust cowboy or the shatners (to
appease my inner child's yearnings).
Anyway, there is a certain enjoyment i find in experimenting with "unheard
ofs", usually through way
of the cover art or the lyrics and titles i read in used bins.
john
Beingthere
late70's/early 80's produced 4 studio albums which were just breathtakingly
brilliant and weird. I don't think I could choose one particular lyric that
does them justice... maybe my favourite track, 'Parade', off the 'Real Life'
album;
It's so hot in here
what are they trying to hatch?
we must not be frail,
we must watch
now thet I'm out of touch with anger
now I've nothing to live up to
I don't know how to stop joking
when I stop I hope I am with you
Sometimes I forget that we're supposed to be in love
sometimes I forget my position...
&c
Lead singer Howard Devoto made a solo album, 'Jerky Versions of The Dream'
which is also excellent.
Parry
Yeah, Magazine and lots of other terrific bands from the late 70’s --
rock’s second highest peak after the mid-60’s. My favorite Devoto record
is Luxuria’s second album, “Unanswerable Lust.” Such a big star he was:
“watch me bite on a bullet and spit out a limousine.”
-- Parry
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Disturbed42
conventions are not to be flouted...just some or most of them.
My rationale is that in surrealist writing it's not just nonsense, random
letters. You still use words. It's the way they're put together that's surreal.
If you abandon all musical convention you get some varying levels of noise, and
not really anything worth merit.
mOther
<ma...@2magpies.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
>Sometimes I forget that we're supposed to be in love
>sometimes I forget my position...
>
>&c
YO &c d00D, wILDTHANG,
tHIS IS mOTHER tALKING TO YOU FROM SHORTCIRCUIT CITY.
TAKE TWO ALIEN SUPPOSITORIES AND CALL YOUR DOCTOR IN THE MORNING.
bUT i'D AVISE NOT TAKING MY ADVICE UNLESS YOU CAN POOP AND TALK ON THE PHONE
AT THE SAME TIME.
~mOTHER~
Treeclimbr
page that French Surrealism was one
of my main influences in composition.
I don't have a lot of short clips, mostly
longer ones. I think you have to be
able to play keyboards melodically
(ie have had lessons for a while)
to be able to do true musical Surrealism,
as visual Surrealism was done by
painters who could paint realistically.
Hence, minimalist or Noise musicians
who call their work "musical Surrealism" I think are mislead.
Here is my music page:
http://users.50megs.com/rspearson/
If you like the concept bookmark it as I
am committed to getting many short
samples on in the next few weeks.
___________________
Robert Pearson
Creative Virtue: http://www.eskimo.com/~telical/
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net/
R.S. Pearson Music Page http://users.50megs.com/rspearson/
Treeclimbr
modern a lot of the choices were.
I would say try:
Art Zoyd
Magma
Hawkwind
Eskaton
Shub-Niggurath
Univers Zero
A lot of these bands are from the
Zuehl movement and are from
France, some from Belguim.
The Tentacle.org provides a
link of Seattle-based experimental
music links. Wire magazine
is also a good place to look.
And don't forget Napster.
Richard Marchand
Parry
>
> I actually say on my musical web
> page that French Surrealism was one
> of my main influences in composition.
> I don't have a lot of short clips, mostly
> longer ones. I think you have to be
> able to play keyboards melodically
> (ie have had lessons for a while)
> to be able to do true musical Surrealism,
> as visual Surrealism was done by
> painters who could paint realistically.
> Hence, minimalist or Noise musicians
> who call their work "musical Surrealism" I think are mislead.
Don’t fall into the trap of trying to define a surrealist style.
Minimalism and noise are just parts of the musical vocabulary, and are
as ready for surrealist use as any other. The bands you mentioned
elsewhere -- like Art Zoyd and Magma -- are of surrealist interest, but
so are The Cramps, Robyn Hitchcock, The Residents, and many others.
Incidentally, groups like Art Zoyd are virtually unknown in North
America.
Nikolaus Maack
That's actually a recent purchase of mine. I like Kevin Cey of Skinny
Puppy fame, and have purchased many other things by him. I much prefer
"Music For Cats" to the Download album. "Music For Cats" is a nice,
juicy, all over the place album that touches many teeth, where as Download
seems to pound on a single tooth for an hour. But I'm still getting used
to Eyes of Stanley Pain's bite, however. I'll like it more in a month or
so.
Nik
--
NOW AVAILABLE! Art by Nik in mass produced formats!
'L. Ron' t-shirts, coffee mugs, and mouse pads.
Just click: http://www.cafepress.com/nikart
brandon...@my-deja.com
> I think you have to be
> able to play keyboards melodically
> (ie have had lessons for a while)
> to be able to do true musical Surrealism,
> as visual Surrealism was done by
> painters who could paint realistically.
> Hence, minimalist or Noise musicians
> who call their work "musical Surrealism" I think are mislead.
I have to disagree. Miro? Masson? They did not paint "realistically"
did they?
Surrealist art (poetry, painting, music, etc) has only one criteria:
that the mind is free during the act of creation. The process is valued
over the product.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Richard Marchand
become addicted. Cats was an instant hook though and according to
Metropolis the follow up should be out soon.
Perhaps you would like some of my tracks...
------ http://www.loonie.net/~rmarchand/ ------
I'm hoping to upload the whole album in a couple weeks once I get more
server space. For now I only have a few tracks online...
--
Treeclimbr
style. It's a complex thought: but can
you approach reality, and that which is
greater or deeper than reality, by
something that can't approximate the
structure of reality? Surrealism has
too much text verbiage associated with
it as a movement to have such a simple
definition as you defined -- although,
in and of itself, you can describe it
that way if you like. But then almost
anything can become Surrealism.
I would like a closer definition before
painting became a complete abstraction,
as it was happening parallel to Surrealism
via the Constructivist and Suprematists,
etc. Super-Realism (as you should know
Surrealism means) should be deined properly, not to bum anyone out, but
just for it's own sake.
john adams
Treeclimbr wrote in message
<20001106234442...@ng-cs1.aol.com>...
>Miro and Masson both have a painterly
>style. It's a complex thought: but can
>you approach reality, and that which is
>greater or deeper than reality, by
>something that can't approximate the
>structure of reality? Surrealism has
>too much text verbiage associated with
>it as a movement to have such a simple
>definition as you defined -- although,
>in and of itself, you can describe it
>that way if you like. But then almost
>anything can become Surrealism.
>I would like a closer definition before
>painting became a complete abstraction,
>as it was happening parallel to Surrealism
>via the Constructivist and Suprematists,
>etc. Super-Realism (as you should know
>Surrealism means) should be deined properly, not to bum anyone out, but
>just for it's own sake.
Sorry, but surrealism hasn't much to do with realism or super-realism at
all,
and I'm not sure who the reply is to or what the excessive textual verbiage
is you discuss in surrealism. But, I think all painters should by definition
have
a painterly style. No matter who they are, as long as they can touch the
brush to
the canvas, they are more than halfway to becoming painterly. Some wiggle
worms and urban slugs are noted for their painterly craft against the
night-time cement,
meanwhile some frayed clouds will manage to fall away to inviolate skies
(some few examples of those found by and large).
john
elag
>
> Richard Marchand (rlmar...@home.com) writes:
> > Artist : Download
> > Album : Eyes of Stanley Pain
>
> That's actually a recent purchase of mine. I like Kevin Cey of Skinny
> Puppy fame, and have purchased many other things by him. I much prefer
> "Music For Cats" to the Download album. "Music For Cats" is a nice,
> juicy, all over the place album that touches many teeth, where as Download
> seems to pound on a single tooth for an hour. But I'm still getting used
> to Eyes of Stanley Pain's bite, however. I'll like it more in a month or
> so.
Which reminds me - - - I highly recommend:
Track: Draining Faces
Album: Cleanse Fold & Manipulate
Artist: Skinny Puppy
elag
>
> Treeclimbr wrote:
> > I think you have to be
> > able to play keyboards melodically
> > (ie have had lessons for a while)
> > to be able to do true musical Surrealism,
> > as visual Surrealism was done by
> > painters who could paint realistically.
> > Hence, minimalist or Noise musicians
> > who call their work "musical Surrealism" I think are mislead.
>
> I have to disagree. Miro? Masson? They did not paint "realistically"
> did they?
That depends on how much sleep you've had recently.
Dale Houstman
"Treeclimbr" <treec...@aol.comnospamma> wrote in message
news:20001106234442...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
> Miro and Masson both have a painterly
> style.
This - in reference to whether or not surrealist painters are or are not
"realistic" - is irrelevant: "painterly" usually refers to a concern with
substance and texture, with the stuff of paint itself. Thus - in artists'
terms - Pollack is painterly while Magritte (who is seemingly involved with
image rather than "effects") is not. But is Pollack more "realistic" than
Magritte? What does the question mean at this point?
It's a complex thought: but can
> you approach reality, and that which is
> greater or deeper than reality, by
> something that can't approximate the
> structure of reality?
Another meaningless question, dependent as it is upon too much subjective
definition of terms: why does one have to "approach" reality (since it
cannot be avoided?), what is meant by "greater or deeper than reality"?
>Surrealism has too much text verbiage associated with
> it as a movement to have such a simple
> definition as you defined
Not really. Any definition of a process will of course be tentative - that
will always be admitted by those who see the world as a weave of processes
rather than as a set of objects - but the amount of verbiage associated with
surrealism does not preclude a starting point that can be expressed simply
and with emphasis on clarity of purpose: the purpose of surrealism (the
commonality between ALL surrealist work) is the liberation of the
imagination.
>But then almost anything can become Surrealism.
> I would like a closer definition before
> painting became a complete abstraction,
> as it was happening parallel to Surrealism
> via the Constructivist and Suprematists,
> etc.
Actually - since surrealism was never an artistic style - Surrealism
contains abstraction within its "instrumentations": Arp comes to mind
without effort.
> Super-Realism (as you should know
> Surrealism means)
A trifle condescending... I think we are beyond knowing this by now. But
these are two different definitions of "realism": one the Academic ideal of
rendering what is seen in as precise a fashion as possible, and the other
the more modern concept of a multi-form universe which interacts with our
senses as our senses interact with it, an idea which extends realism to such
realms as Cubism, Impressionism, and on to abstraction, all maters of
sensation/cognition. When the surrealists speak of a "super realism" they
are - of course - evoking this wider and wider comprehension of the
universe, not of some attempt at detailed rendering.
dmh
Disturbed42
The meaning I took from the original "realistic" statement was that when Dali
painted a melting clock, it LOOKED like a melting clock. That sort of
"realism."
Kristina
This is unfortunately the main vehicle and style that I tend to see these
days, and especially on the internet when people refer to their "surrealist
web site". Since when did surrealism become a particular art movement where
a certain style is the vehicle for so called surrealist visions and
thoughts?
Why is there such an unimaginative emphasis on re-creating the past
visually, and copying the old and long gone dead? I am sick to death of it.
It's nothing more than pretty pictures (IF you find that appealing -- which
I generally don't).
Kristina.
Treeclimbr
>> Miro and Masson both have a painterly
>> style.
>
>This - in reference to whether or not surrealist painters are or are not
>"realistic" - is irrelevant: "painterly" usually refers to a concern with
>substance and texture, with the stuff of paint itself. Thus - in artists'
>terms - Pollack is painterly while Magritte (who is seemingly involved with
>image rather than "effects") is not. But is Pollack more "realistic" than
>Magritte?
Nice try, but your definition is a little subjective. Just do a search
on painterly and you will see realistic painters calling themselves
"painterly."
There is another term for what you're describing. There was a movement
called the "Post-Painterly Modernist" or something like that...
who did figurative work....I think you're way off the line on this one.
Since your whole tone seemed destructive, again, "good try...." now I
see why some of you hate each other so much (or at least did).
What does the question mean at this point?
What question?
>
> It's a complex thought: but can
>> you approach reality, and that which is
>> greater or deeper than reality, by
>> something that can't approximate the
>> structure of reality?
>
>Another meaningless question, dependent as it is upon too much subjective
>definition of terms: why does one have to "approach" reality (since it
>cannot be avoided?), what is meant by "greater or deeper than reality"?
>
Dale, who died and left you boss to decide what is a meaningful or meaningless
question?
>>Surrealism has too much text verbiage associated with
>> it as a movement to have such a simple
>> definition as you defined
>
>Not really.
Oh really? Have you seen the size of Breton's Surrealism and Painting?
Any definition of a process will of course be tentative - that
>will always be admitted by those who see the world as a weave of processes
>rather than as a set of objects - but the amount of verbiage associated with
>surrealism does not preclude a starting point that can be expressed simply
>and with emphasis on clarity of purpose: the purpose of surrealism (the
>commonality between ALL surrealist work) is the liberation of the
>imagination.
I thought it meant SuperRealism which explains all Breton's "moralistic"
(try not to choke!) concerns. You moderns want to reduce everything of
real meaning to nothing.
>
>>But then almost anything can become Surrealism.
>> I would like a closer definition before
>> painting became a complete abstraction,
>> as it was happening parallel to Surrealism
>> via the Constructivist and Suprematists,
>> etc.
>
>Actually - since surrealism was never an artistic style - Surrealism
>contains abstraction within its "instrumentations": Arp comes to mind
>without effort.
>
>> Super-Realism (as you should know
>> Surrealism means)
>
>A trifle condescending... I think we are beyond knowing this by now.
Are we all on the ship with you, dmh?
But
>these are two different definitions of "realism": one the Academic ideal of
>rendering what is seen in as precise a fashion as possible, and the other
>the more modern concept of a multi-form universe which interacts with our
>senses as our senses interact with it, an idea which extends realism to such
>realms as Cubism, Impressionism, and on to abstraction, all maters of
>sensation/cognition. When the surrealists speak of a "super realism" they
>are - of course - evoking this wider and wider comprehension of the
>universe, not of some attempt at detailed rendering.
This doesn't make much sense to me. Why don't you just read what they
said?
>
>dmh