Re Surrealism is about living to your believes.
Kwigd144
mechanisims and also limit our Imagination! Please Read: "L`Anti-OEdipe", by
Gilles Deleuze and Fekix Guattari !!! Also, Michel Authier and Pierre
Levy,mm'La cosmopedie une utopie hypervisuelle", in Culture technique,#24. The
issue was devoted to,"Machines a communiquer".
barrett john erickson
"Kwigd144" <kwig...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020915162617...@mb-mk.aol.com...
i may have, but i can't remember ever reading either. aren't they usually
considered post-modernists?
but i found this in an "intro" to Guattari and Deleuze:
Machines: A term coined by Guattari to escape the Lacanian notion of the
"subject" which is often mistaken for consciousness itself. A machine is any
point at which a flow of some sort (physical, intellectual, emotional etc:)
either leaves or enters a structure. A baby's mouth at its mother's breast
is a mouth machine meeting a breast machine. There is flow between these two
machines.
actually this doesn't sound too distant from what Pierre is saying. i
wouldn't have used the word "machine" in this case myself however.
maybe you can explain a bit better how this is a "head lice".
-- barrett
BLUE FEATHERS se2 (The New World Odor) is now available
(BF#4 will be available in July02)
http://www.MagneticFields.org/blue/
bar...@MagneticFields.org
http://www.MagneticFields.org/
surrealists in minnesota
Sur...@MagneticFields.org
==============================================
"Everything tends to make us believe that there exists a
certain point of the mind at which life and death, the real and
the imagined, past and future, the communicable and the
incommunicable, high and low, cease to be perceived as
contradictions."
...André Breton
==============================================
Dale Houstman
cythera wrote:
> Machines are projections and mirrors of our desires.
>
>
Decidedly true. This is why they are not "anything" ("good" or "bad") by
themselves, and their usage relies upon the nature of the desire running
them.
dmh
Nik Maack
cythera wrote:
> A good starting point toward understanding the essay you mentioned
> would be to think over this quote from it:
>
> "The computer is given to us that we make surrealist use of it."
Is belittling people you think aren't being surrealist using a computer
the same thing as being surrealist using a computer?
Nik
Kwigd144
Surrealism. I am taking a guess that Donna Haraway would agree with your
response and that is something that I want to explore.
Kwigd144
sensibility to only serve the purpose of seperate organ. Surrealist Groups all
over the world operate in the phase of Commodity Space at the stage of molar
technology. The Imagination is Stagnant and Brains are filled with
the,"Lice"(Machines) that PREVENT You All from Developing and Re-Developing
Your Dreams on the Whole Collective Level! Barrett, I asked Pierre back in the
NowSurreal UK Forum Posts: WHERE DO WE GO AFTER DEC.1965?
Kwigd144
and Cythera. You both have to enter the Phase of Projections and Mirrors of
your desires without the Machines(Head Lice)! Again, You become trapped by
Mechanism-Concept that MAYBE Pierre Petiot was WARNING US ALL ABOUT all along,
but the Feedback from the group members is what I see here, and it scares me to
think that You stay FOCUSED on the Machines in Your Work with Surrealism. To
Rely on Machines for Transcendent Representation in Surrealism, you will engage
in Regulation which is unfortunately inevitable(You know where that leads)! On
www.magnetic fields.org Website, there are links for Francisco Varela (Edleman
too), and I also want to point out his work with Humberto Maturana,"Principles
of Biological Autonomy". Autopoiesis is process of continous self-renewal and
that provides the alternative to Commodity Space Object/Machine/Purpose
Paradigm that you refuse to free yourself from it's parameters. Barrett has
links on your's and his site and it does provide the doorway into Knowledge
Space which can help nuture the Dream into Sur-reality.
Dale Houstman
You're hopeless, Keith. Barrett - who has infinitely more patience than
I do - is willing to give you a chance, but I think you're a total whack
job, with lots of unintergrated information swirling about in your head
like tea leaves in a cup out in the desert.
I don't "have to" do anything you semi-conceive of. I am not trapped by
any "mechanism-concept" (whatever the hell that could mean), and you
still haven't explained how you - with your disgust of machinery - can
put your fingers to a keyboard.
No one is "FOCUSED on the Machines" - except perhaps you, who brought
the subject up (via a profound misunderstanding of Pierr'es text) and
can't let go of it until you've mismanaged it in every way you can. NO
ONE is saying you should rely on machines, so that is an irrelevant
detour into fantasy. As cythera says, machines are a manifestation of
human desires, and so they remain subservient to that desire. You are
the only one who seems unable to disengage from mechanical responses.
And you can stop pretending you are some sort of surrealist bodhisatva
who remains among us to guide us to surrealism. I've been engaged with
surrealism actively for over 30 years, and came to it via an innate
gravitation towards its processes. I don't celebrate technology, I
utilize it. If you can't (or won't) see the difference, not much can be
done for you.
dmh
barrett john erickson
On
> www.magneticfields.org Website, there are links for Francisco Varela
(Edleman
> too), and I also want to point out his work with Humberto
Maturana,"Principles
> of Biological Autonomy". Autopoiesis is process of continous self-renewal
and
> that provides the alternative to Commodity Space Object/Machine/Purpose
> Paradigm that you refuse to free yourself from it's parameters. Barrett
has
> links on your's and his site and it does provide the doorway into
Knowledge
> Space which can help nuture the Dream into Sur-reality.
well, Keith, if you're aware of and understand and agree with Varela, et.
al., you should have no argument with Pierre. it was he who alerted me
first to autopoiesis and enactive cognition. and i assure you he is fully
aware of the full implications of these advances in the cognitive and
physical sciences and their marvelous potential for surrealist exploration.
Varela and Prigogine and a few others are at the vanguard of understanding
that Pierre is trying to get surrealists to wake up to. and really, Pierre,
Dale and i are among the very few that don't need convincing of the fact
that this vanguard is taking dead aim at bringing us to that "certain point"
of which Breton spoke (the only difference being it isn't really a certain
point of "the mind" but rather a certain congruence of cognitive action).
and Pierre's text speaks directly to trying to achieve that.
but your whole "commodity space"/"knowledge space" thing is throwing me.
i've moved well beyond the point where such a division makes any sense to me
at all, except as a concept someone might try to impose in an effort to
falsify real experience (a way so popular among post-modern philosophers).
Pierre is not doing this. i am not doing this. Dale is not doing this.
and you don't have to subdivide reality to try to make a point with us. it
just gets in the way.
Kwigd144
whack-job and proud to be one! Dale, if you have been engaged in your hobby for
30 years without any Accomlishment, then we are all doomed?! Man, INERTIA! So
please tell us Dale, what do you do for a living? I am an unemployed wreck of a
whack-job and you?
Morpheal
>
> Machines are projections and mirrors of our desires.
Not anymore.
Machines have evolved into the makers of human desires.
R.
Morpheal
> "The computer is given to us that we make surrealist use of it."
The computer is given to us, as military trickle down technologies,
to give us bread and circuses. Perhaps even an occassional frustrated
and seemingly endless quest to consume our plebian time.
R.
Kwigd144
also can Orgainze any Event and I have proven that fact where the, "Comrade
Surrealists" have been UNABLE TO ORGANIZE and OPEN CHANNELS! Cythera, I can
organize an International Surrealist Art Event Online within 2 days myself. I
can also get 40 International Surrealist Artists and Surrealists Committed,
WITHOUT PULLING OUT, and I can get SURREALISM BACK IN THE LIMELIGHT!!!
Cythera, If you keep placing your loyalty to people that do not care for
anything but their own Intellectual Elitist Mindset, then SURREALISM WILL
ALWAYS BE IN THE RETROSPECTIVE, and You will still have Broken Links between
Chicago and Paris Groups! Cythera, I can also FIGHT the PEOPLE that will try to
Prevent Me from Going Forward with any Surrealist Activity that I am involved
in. Cythera, THE WORLD WILL TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE A SURREALIST, not these
Disorganized Elitists! Also, SURREALISM had the Oppurtunity to show itself
again in 2002, until it was SABOTAGED! Stay Out of the Contex of Surrealism
and Become Surrealism, not by hanging out with these gasbags! At least CYNTHIA
STEVENS brought SURREALISM to the PUBLIC and what an EVENT! I must contact this
woman IMMEDIATLEY! I will tell you all this, that bullshit that was pulled
with IAN (the best thing to happen for Surrealism!) at NowSurreal UK will not
happen with me, because I will expose you all for the gasbags you are, Ding
Ding! Bill Howe is the only Surrealist that at least is nice enough to E-mail,
last Zazie did was last month!!!!! What is the problem that Stuart Inman has
with Prof. Uphoff???!!! Ding Ding! I WILL GET SURREALISM OFF IT'S ASS AND BACK
ON IT'S FEET!!!!
barrett john erickson
> [...]
Keith is just ranting here without really saying anything.
> At least CYNTHIA STEVENS brought SURREALISM to the PUBLIC and what an
> EVENT! I must contact this woman IMMEDIATLEY!
as it happens, i _can_ offer some explanation for this non sequitur since we
had a lot of fun with it at the time...
see CityPages (a local advertising vehicle owned by the Village Voice) from
late June:
http://citypages.com/databank/23/1124/article10496.asp
obviously there are some glaring errors in this review, so we decided to
have a bit of fun...
i forwarded a response obtained from Pablo Weisz-Carrington. actually it
was 2 separate responses that i spliced together. i'll include it here in
full since we thought it was brilliantly on target and yet it's the only one
of the four CityPages decided not to publish! there's editorial integrity
for you! print the obviously fake Henri, but don't print a response from
Leonora's son.
Pablo wrote:
I really do not know what it means to align with Dali.
Does this mean you have to have a dripping clock over the fireplace to
belong or to have pointy whiskers? I doubt Leonora would want that item over
her fireplace or that growth on her face. Unfortunately for all the other
artists in the Surrealist movement, Leonora Carrington did not align herself
to anyone, she was and always will be very much an independent person a very
unique artist.
In addition, Breton may not like his name being changed, and if he did he
may not like the name Henri, so beware he may come out of his grave in the
form of a demonic carrot and bite this infidel in the nose.
Regards
Pablo Weisz-Carrington
Dale's letter:
http://citypages.com/letters/detail.asp?LID=2968
mine:
http://citypages.com/letters/detail.asp?TID=1226
and the best for last...
Tom's as Henri Breton:
http://citypages.com/letters/detail.asp?LID=2967
you'll notice that unlike Keith, we made no assumptions about Cynthia
Steven's work because we hadn't seen it.
Dale Houstman
You may get something off its as and back on its feet, but I can assure
you that it won't be surrealism.
We ARE all sorry you did not get to display your precious little
drawlings and pantings.
But as for surrealists not being able to "organize" and so anything: we
sure fucked your little pony ride to Art Heaven, didn't we? And THAT is
not the end of it. We're resting on our laurels at the moment, and all
quite amused by the blithering idiots let out of their NotSurreal cages
to stumble about in the real world. However, you will not find the same
level of bland acceptance from "fellow arteestes" outside your dainty
little (misnamed) tearoom. Surrealism expects more than a hysterical
artistic temperament from its members, and you seem unable to switch off
your dumb gland.
dmh
dmh
Kwigd144
loose but TIGHT! Your mind reads these WORDS and get INSIDE YOU!
REPLICATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Morpheal
> Cythera, I can Open Surrealist Channels with Anyone,...
...prolonged, very side splitting, laughter.....
Sure you can. Sure you can.
You can open channels. Did you open the English Channel too ?
Somebody had to do it. Channels... yeah, sure. lol
R.
Kwigd144
Morpheal
> kwig...@aol.com had written:
> Cythera! Machines are the Head Lice that construct the hives of
> cosmopolitan mechanisims and also limit our Imagination!
Kwigd forgets that machines are our best friends, meant to make our
lives easier. That includes their totally destroying our wasting mental
energy as to thinking for ourselves, or imagining anything. They can
do all the thinking and imagining that is needed.... No more, no less.
R.
Morpheal
> I just opened channels with my TV!!!!!!! Ringa Ding Ding Moo Moo Ching Ching!
And those are the only channels and outlets that you are allowed
to interact with ? I thought so.
Soon there will be a live feed right into your brain, and you won't be
able to change channels or turn it off.... Welcome to future hell.
R.
Kwigd144
Kwigd144
Morpheal
> Morpheal, I agree!
It's all agree area. Very agree. No white and no black. Only agree.
R.
Morpheal
> Morpheal, There is already a live feed in all our brains!
Then eventually that parasite will eat them. We'll have nothing left
for our own personal use. And even less to use with others of our own
choosing.
Do you think it's all part of the master plan ?
R.
Kwigd144
Morpheal
> Yes! I blame the Ionosphere!!!!
And in fact it was all the fault of the Biosphere.
The Ionosphere simply took the blame.
R.