Pipe Tobacco & Taxes
FlatIronMike
Very interesting editorial in the NY Times on the subject. Big
Tobacco has found a loophole to keep selling to poison for next to
nothing. Seems like a good time to write your senators and
representative.
FlatironMike
steaming mad
Two years, nine months, one week, four days, 14 hours, 28 minutes and
7 seconds. 20312 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,093.62. Life saved:
10 weeks, 12 hours, 40 minutes.
Eldon
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/opinion/22sun4.html?ref=opinion
>
> Very interesting editorial in the NY Times on the subject. Big
> Tobacco has found a loophole to keep selling to poison for next to
> nothing. Seems like a good time to write your senators and
> representative.
So why do you suppose they didn't include pipe tobacco in the firat
place?
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/opinion/22sun4.html?ref=opinion
>>
>> Tobacco has found a loophole to keep selling to poison for next to
>
>So why do you suppose they didn't include pipe tobacco in the firat
>place?
Politicians have always been soft on pipe and cigar smokers.
There are quite a few people who smoke the "occasional" cigar who
don't consider themselves smokers.
They are the ones who effectively stand in the way of smoking bans.
Cigarette smokers know they are addicts and are ashamed of it.
Seventy to eighty percent of them want to quit but don't know
how to get started, are afraid of failure and fear that they
will become a different person unable to enjoy the finer things
in life without a nicotine fix.
Pipe and cigar smokers fool themselves into thinking they're
above addiction just as the single-malt Scotch heavy drinker
will not consider himself an alcoholic like the sweet-wine swilling
homeless person. But it's the same drug.
Many cigar smokers (and some pipe) were (some still are) cigarette
smokers. They couldn't leave nicotine completely alone and
gave into it in another form. Former cigarette smokers still
inhale and those who say they don't are lying.
My dad smoked cigarettes for nearly 30 years, quit, and took up
cigars for another 17 years. Did the cigarettes or the cigars
cause his lung cancer? I bet it was the cigars.
Ok, the real reason cigars and pipes get a pass is that Philip
Morris isn't in that business.
Eldon
> In article <1844f3e8-1e4b-4fb9-b1a7-1e3da9859...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/opinion/22sun4.html?ref=opinion
>
> >> Tobacco has found a loophole to keep selling to poison for next to
> >> representative.
>
> >So why do you suppose they didn't include pipe tobacco in the firat
> >place?
>
> Politicians have always been soft on pipe and cigar smokers.
> There are quite a few people who smoke the "occasional" cigar who
> don't consider themselves smokers.
>
> They are the ones who effectively stand in the way of smoking bans.
> Cigarette smokers know they are addicts and are ashamed of it.
> Seventy to eighty percent of them want to quit but don't know
> how to get started, are afraid of failure and fear that they
> will become a different person unable to enjoy the finer things
> in life without a nicotine fix.
>
> Pipe and cigar smokers fool themselves into thinking they're
> above addiction just as the single-malt Scotch heavy drinker
> will not consider himself an alcoholic like the sweet-wine swilling
> homeless person. But it's the same drug.
>
> Many cigar smokers (and some pipe) were (some still are) cigarette
> smokers. They couldn't leave nicotine completely alone and
> gave into it in another form. Former cigarette smokers still
> inhale and those who say they don't are lying.
Well, whenever I tried a pipe or a cigar I found inhaling real
difficult. But the nicotine is still absorbed through the mucous
membranes anyway, like chewing tobacco. And of course, they get to
inhale their own diluted secondhand smoke. So I don't think inhaling
would make all that much difference one way or another.
If people want to enjoy the ~occasional~ fine cigar or pipeful of
gourmet tobacco, they shouldn't worry about the cost anyway. But yes,
that air of snobbery will help enable them to blank out how much
nicotine they're actually consuming.
Mark Earnest
"Bruce Watson" <anon...@nyx.nyx.net> wrote...
> Many cigar smokers (and some pipe) were (some still are) cigarette
> smokers. They couldn't leave nicotine completely alone and
> gave into it in another form. Former cigarette smokers still
> inhale and those who say they don't are lying.
Why do pipe smokers say they don't inhale?
If they don't inhale, what is it to smoke a pipe?
Same thing with cigars.
If you aren't inhaling, I guess you just think you look cute with
the things in your mouth.
Always wondered, anyway.
Mark
tof
Bruce Watson
Nicotine from pipe and cigar is absorbed through the soft tissues of
the mouth. They get their drug but not the rapid, 8-second to-the-brain
hit like cigarette smokers. That is, those who never smoked cigarettes.
"Virtually, all cigarette smokers inhale, even those who say they do not,
and they continue to do so when they switch to pipes or cigars."
--William Bennett, MD, is associate editor of the Harvard Medical
School Health Letter, Science 80, September/October 1980.
"Recall that carbon monoxide is only absorbed through the lungs. Also,
serum carboxyhemoglobin levels accurately reflect exposure to carbon
monoxide. Given the elevated serum carboxyhemoglobin levels demonstrated
in ex-cigarette smokers who smoke cigars, it is clear that ex-cigarette
smokers, even though they report no inhalation, do inhale."
--Marc J. Schneiderman, M.D., 1998
http://www.cigargroup.com/faq/health/ncifaq.htm
Of the smokers who post at alt.smokers.pipes, there was a survey
taken just last months of the members: Of 21 responses, 8 said
they inhaled some or all of the time, 13 said they didn't.
But 6 of the ones who said they didn't inhale were (or still
are) cigarette smokers. So, I'll believe only 7 of the 21
could seriously claim they didn't inhale directly (they
all inhale the smoke from the burning end of the pipe, the
secondhand smoke). So, as a maximum, 33% of pipe smokers don't
inhale directly into the lungs the smoke from the mouthpiece.
But I'm suspicious of the claims of those 33%.
Just a cautionary warning, if you think you are smoking
safer by switching to pipe or cigars from cigarettes, you're mistaken.
Eldon
> In article <bLydnSDHIreC3pfWnZ2dnUVZ_r-dn...@posted.internetamerica>,
>
>
>
> Mark Earnest <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"Bruce Watson" <anon3...@nyx.nyx.net> wrote...
Now, that's a statistical analysis if ever I've seen one. I remember
that when I smoked cigarettes and tried a cigar or a pipe, the smoke
would really gag me if I tried to inhale the same way I did with
cigarettes. But come to think of it, I guess it's likely that converts
learn to do a sort of syncopated breathing thing where they get a
mouthful of smoke and then suck in some outside air to dilute it.
But anyway, I don't think I'll experiment with that possibility, no
matter how classy I might look.
>
> Just a cautionary warning, if you think you are smoking
> safer by switching to pipe or cigars from cigarettes, you're mistaken.
And if you think you're not in denial, channel Sigmund Freud and ask
what cigar smoking did to him.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article <bLydnSDHIreC3pfWnZ2dnUVZ_r-dn...@posted.internetamerica>,
>>
>> Mark Earnest <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"Bruce Watson" <anon3...@nyx.nyx.net> wrote...
>>
>> >> Many cigar smokers (and some pipe) were (some still are) cigarette
>> >> smokers. They couldn't leave nicotine completely alone and
>> >> gave into it in another form. Former cigarette smokers still
>> >> inhale and those who say they don't are lying.
>>
>> >Why do pipe smokers say they don't inhale?
>> >If they don't inhale, what is it to smoke a pipe?
>> >Same thing with cigars.
>>
>> >Always wondered, anyway.
>>
>> Nicotine from pipe and cigar is absorbed through the soft tissues of
>> the mouth. They get their drug but not the rapid, 8-second to-the-brain
>> hit like cigarette smokers. That is, those who never smoked cigarettes.
>>
>> "Virtually, all cigarette smokers inhale, even those who say they do not,
>> and they continue to do so when they switch to pipes or cigars."
>> --William Bennett, MD, is associate editor of the Harvard Medical
>> School Health Letter, Science 80, September/October 1980.
>>
>> "Recall that carbon monoxide is only absorbed through the lungs. Also,
>> serum carboxyhemoglobin levels accurately reflect exposure to carbon
>> monoxide. Given the elevated serum carboxyhemoglobin levels demonstrated
>> in ex-cigarette smokers who smoke cigars, it is clear that ex-cigarette
>> smokers, even though they report no inhalation, do inhale."
>>
>>
>> Of the smokers who post at alt.smokers.pipes, there was a survey
>> taken just last months of the members: Of 21 responses, 8 said
>> they inhaled some or all of the time, 13 said they didn't.
>> But 6 of the ones who said they didn't inhale were (or still
>> are) cigarette smokers. So, I'll believe only 7 of the 21
>> could seriously claim they didn't inhale directly (they
>> all inhale the smoke from the burning end of the pipe, the
>> secondhand smoke). So, as a maximum, 33% of pipe smokers don't
>> inhale directly into the lungs the smoke from the mouthpiece.
>> But I'm suspicious of the claims of those 33%.
>
>Now, that's a statistical analysis if ever I've seen one. I remember
>that when I smoked cigarettes and tried a cigar or a pipe, the smoke
>would really gag me if I tried to inhale the same way I did with
>cigarettes. But come to think of it, I guess it's likely that converts
>learn to do a sort of syncopated breathing thing where they get a
>mouthful of smoke and then suck in some outside air to dilute it.
A small sample and not to be taken seriously.
But the point is many cigarette smokers fall victim to
thinking smoking a pipe or cigars has little or no risk.
That may be true for someone who has never smoked cigarettes
but certainly not for those who have.
>But anyway, I don't think I'll experiment with that possibility, no
>matter how classy I might look.
You have been warned by the two doctors quoted above.
>> Just a cautionary warning, if you think you are smoking
>> safer by switching to pipe or cigars from cigarettes, you're mistaken.
>
>And if you think you're not in denial, channel Sigmund Freud and ask
>what cigar smoking did to him.
Or Wiki him.
It's not a pretty picture.
Mark Earnest
"Bruce Watson" <anon...@nyx.nyx.net> wrote in message
news:12589942...@irys.nyx.net...
Oh, so smoking a pipe or cigar is kind of similar to slapping on the
nicotine patch, except for keeping some of the health risks.
Bruce Watson
Some cigarette smokers think so.
They're wrong. The instructions for the patch and the gum
are clear about stepping down. There are no such instructions
for cigars and pipes. The manufacturers want you to keep using
them for the rest of your life.
Mark Earnest
I meant that with cigars and pipes the nictotine is absorbed through the
skin, just as it is through the patch. I know it is not a reliable way
to quit. Thanks for the heads up, though.
Mark
tof
Bruce Watson
Yes, but more like the gum which releases nicotine into
the mucosa. No one sucks on the patch. I don't think :)
But ex-cigarette smokers who think they're doing themselves
a favor by quitting cigarettess and taking up the pipe or cigars
are fooling themselves.
Once a smoker, of anything, quitting all forms of tobacco
is the only way.